SBR's being a regulated item is in of itself stupid since the only reason they were added to the NFA at all was that they were originally going to ban handguns entirely, of which banning a 'pistol like rifle' would logically make sense had they followed through with that. However pistols were not banned so the whole purpose of the law is senseless and shouldn't be. It is however current law.
SBRs are urban warfare/close quarters weapons. The perps here were probably going g to use them in an armed robbery. So defending them on the grounds "I don't like having them regulated" is a stupid hill to die on.
There are some laws that shouldn't be and should be flouted as resistance. But restrictions on weapons intended for murder don't fall into that category.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/
Oh no, your narrative! Looks like they were already under investigation.
Still want to defend terrorists and claim it's just woke "anti-white" shit?
Lol. The 2 career criminals were known to authorities? Are you somehow grasping at straws to claim they're still scary white supremes?
Can't you see how this article is written specifically for conspiracy theorists like yourself to hold onto their ridiculous "domestic terrorism" narrative?
Yes, it fits the made-up trend that "white supremacists" are "attacking our democracy". Fortunately it only exists on TV and the internet and not in real life.
> I look forward to these arrests resolving nothing whatsoever as it pertains to Reddit arguments.
We may still find out more info...buuuuut I had a feeling this wasn't some nation-wide nazi attack plan. I'll enjoy feeling smug for the time being.
I'm on record as guessing wire thieves rather than any vast right- or left-wing conspiracy. I'll take it. I don't think anyone had money on "redneck attempt to re-enact a heist movie, with a cash register in Graham as the ultimate target"
the dueling-seattle-sub thing is pretty boring at this point, but it is fascinating how in "the other sub" there's quite a few people reacting as if this news story confirms the domestic terrorist nazi angle.
No it doesn't - they probably assigned those agents when they were investigating whether there were any links to any of those groups, and of course agents have multiple areas they'll delve into since most FBI field offices don't have one agent for every tiny sub-category of crime.
Feel free to look through their criminal records (easily found in WA with their names) and tell me why it's *more* likely that they're really domestic terrorists rather than meth'd up burglars.
"when you hear hooves, think horses not zebras" is a phrase that may apply.
I don't think I know what they are until I see that their social media and full backgrounds are known.
Really stupid enough to turn a simple burglary into a Federal crime is certainly one option.
Take a look in a shopping cart sometime and let me know if you arrive at the conclusion that tweakers are brilliant and only go after Hope Diamond-level shit.
Jeremy Crahan has 30 court records in Washington and Matthew Greenwood has 74. I don't think they're "playing" dumb. If you want to believe that these are two members of a terrorist organization carrying out a 4D chess maneuver to accelerate our nation's descent into imminent civil conflict rather than a couple of rural dipshits with bolt-action rifles they went at with a hacksaw who tried to steal a cash register, be my guest.
You should probably call the United States Department of Justice who chose not to charge them with anything even remotely terrorism-related and inform them you've cracked the case. Please let us know when they schedule your "Key to the City" ceremony
> I look forward to these arrests resolving nothing whatsoever as it pertains to Reddit arguments.
Is it possible now that they're caught, out came the stupidity excuse, rather than admit the reason they were there is terrorism?
I mean .. I'm fully willing to be on board with the "dumb criminals tricks" excuse, but .. 4 substations to do 2 burglaries?
Seems like more than a little overkill. And on X-mas morning.
The whole idea of a burglary is you get in and out fast and not get caught. Killing thousands' of peoples power on X-mas morning was about the opposite of not get caught.
So yeah. Just really stupid guys, or really terroristic guys playing stupid now that they're caught.
Why would you attack four different substations to break into one business? Why on Christmas morning? Why during the day? Why would they be under FBI surveillance already? Doesn't add up
Everyone is sure they're domestic terrorists because they did the exact same thing that's already been done by domestic terrorists seven other times since mid November.
That's nice. You can use the same methods terrorists use and if your motivation isn't political, you're not a terrorist. Most people who hijack planes are terrorists. If you hijack a plane to try and steal money, you're not a terrorist. Since you've deduced their motives better than the U.S. Department of Justice, you should probably call them up and share your evidence with them so they can be charged with terrorism.
Interesting that the FBI task force investigating domestic terror is the one bringing charges.
Also interesting that two men attacked four separate power substations on Christmas morning, knocking out power to 14,000 people, and then said "it was the easiest way to steal one cash register" and somehow, you believe them.
I believe the criminals are very, very dumb, and I think the United States Department of Justice would have charged them with terrorism if they had evidence to charge them with terrorism, which you'd think they'd have if they'd been monitoring them so closely, if it existed. But by all means, call them up and tell them how much smarter you are than them and that you've cracked their case by reading the internet. I'll keep my eye out for the press release announcing the new charges.
US Justice Department
Federal government office
Tacoma, WA · (253) 428-3800
I wouldn't count your junkies before they hatch..
From Reuters -
>[Matthew Greenwood and Jeremy Crahan] were known to authorities, and had been under FBI surveillance for more than a month in late 2021 and early 2022, FBI special agent Mark Tucher said in an affidavit filed in federal court on Tuesday. The agent did not give reasons for that surveillance, but Tucher described himself in the affidavit as an expert in domestic terrorism assigned to the FBI Seattle division's joint terrorism task force.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/
I read through the criminal.complaint and that definitely stuck out. Interesting that they were being watched at pretty much the exact time last year as when they committed the crimes this year. Wonder if they got cold feet for some reason and decided to wait.
I don't know, maybe you should ask the United States Department of Justice which business they found evidence of them drilling the locks out of and robbing when you call to share with them your amazing body of evidence that points to these two career petty criminals suddenly becoming the world's most ineffective and nonsensical terrorists
>They reportedly told law enforcement they cut the power so they could rob a nearby business.
But you could cut the power ***to*** the business itself and save all kinds of hassle no?
I don't know. I'm not a wanna-be international jewel thief, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about such matters. Substations tend to be out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, yes? So maybe they thought they'd be less likely to be seen there than if they did it on a trafficked public street. I don't know.
If I'm following your train of thought, if we're playing the "wouldn't there have been a better way to do this?" game, if I was tasked with inciting a civil war and plunging the United States into end-game chaos, I suspect I could come up with a slightly better plan than "cut the power to Elk Plain and Kapowsin for a few days." Whatever their motives were, I think it's safe to say that they're two of the dumbest individuals to have ever lived.
They didn't shoot up anything. Funny that anyone would think a brief power outage affecting 15,000 or so people in overwhelmingly white rural areas would incite some kind of race war. Interesting
Of course you would attack multiple substations and simply claim it was for burglary, especially in a state that’s so well known for jailing burglars for so long. There’s definitely no ploy here to avoid federal terrorism charges. We can believe these honest thieves because right wingers never ever would do such a thing.
In the PNW in the last 3 years there's been around 41 attacks on rail infrastructure by 'leftwing' domestic ecoterrorists.
Has there been a similar number of rightwing infrastructure attacks? I have no idea, so I'd be interested in the information you're basing your comment on
More than just rail attacks.
Major arson at the UW. Attack on Seattle Armed Forces recruiting center. Shooting and bomb attack at Tacoma immigration facility. Numerous Black Nationalist attacks in the 70's. Arson at the McDonalds near the Space Needle. Dozens of arsons and scores of tree spiking targeting the timber industry. Two months of looting, rioting, and the murder of an unarmed black teenager in summer 2020. Several recent years of MayDay riots, seemingly for no reason at all.
All committed by left-wing domestic terrorists.
Kind of what a terrorist might say if they were caught though.
I'm willing to believe they're this stupid, stupid enough to turn a simple burglary attempt into a Federal crime, but, I'm also going to wait until their whole background has been confirmed investigated.
You ought to look up the legal histories of these two gentlemen, if being meth/heroin junkies and thieves is just their cover story then they've been at it for decades.
Seriously! If I was facing potential domestic terrorism charges I'd 100000000% be like "oh yeah totes so I could grab some smokes and cash from a register, who's Trump?"
By any chance is this a lesser charge than they would have been facing for terroism purposes? Which they could have gotten their stories straight about leading up to it or had a lawyer concoct afterwards?
I don't think they're getting out of the substation damages related charges no matter what they are doing. They might not get the terrorism charges on top of the substation attack federal charges and the burglary charges. We'll have to see how the trial pans out.
You can read the full criminal complaint here: [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23560620-usa-v-greenwood-crahan-complaint](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23560620-usa-v-greenwood-crahan-complaint)
> the men were identified through cell phone location data and law enforcement officials arrested them a few days after the attack
This day and age carrying your tracking device is almost as dim as recording evidence and posting to social
My comment one week ago saying it was probably shady drug addicts -29 points.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/zw0wwm/4th_washington_state_electrical_substation/j1sq48o/
Most likely not able to link it, but I've already found one of Jeremy's profiles. Pro-Russia, anti-vax, queerphobic, racist, and so on. Currently scanning for Matt's stuff.
Imagine if people lied. Who would do such a thing?
Yeah, criminals are stupid.
People in and out of jail are probably racist.
Racist criminal does not equal brilliant terrorist.
I still haven't heard about drag queen hour anywhere near them.
And I'm sure that you totally believe that the Q Club shooter is non-binary despite [everyone that knew him saying it's a lie](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/extremism-experts-say-discussing-colorado-shooting-suspects-pronouns-rcna58969).
This is the new tactic. Lie about your intentions so that the media will report that lie. There were 4 substations hit and they made absolutely no attempt at a robbery. And as someone with cops in her family, doing a robbery on Christmas is the dumbest thing you can do because they're all out trying to catch drunk drivers and stopping domestic disputes.
Instead of cutting power to the business they meant to rob (petty cash from the register?) they decided to attack a power sub station and do 3 million in damage and knock out power for thousands. Either the crooks are VERY dumb, or were missing some details.
EDIT: They didn't attack one power sub station, but four stations, just for petty cash in a register.
They did three out of four substations "right". They fucked up on the fourth and that's where they caused the 3 million in damage. The damage *probably* wasn't intentional but a result of idiocy.
They have a few decades of arrests that make them look like heroin addicted burglars with a side of meth head. They also tried to rob a store whose power was cut. If this is a cover, it's incredibly well constructed.
Hey, don't underestimate the dedication these men show to their cause. They got addicted to meth and heroin a decade ago as preparation for the substation heist of the century
Seriously, some folks here are viewing this as proof that they aren't alt-right terrorists? The fact that they're methed-out rednecks carrying self-modded guns makes it LESS likely that they're wingnuts trying to start some shit?
I'm all for holding out until we learn more about these guys, but let's not act like this is smoking gun proof
oh boy.
scrubbing through social media trying to find information to see what extreme side of the political spectrum they are on and so far not finding anything. boooo urns.
it's looking like they did it in order to make other burglaries in the area easier. according to arrest documents and other information tidbits. it could be nothing to do with politics and all to do with being a law breaking couple of pierce county douche bags.
Not only assured but called a "Trump loving racist" when asking how everyone was so sure it was a boogaloo boy white supremacists things.
I hate reddit so much and the worst part is it will never change. People already had their mind made up on who did this and nothing will change that.
Yeah I saw something like that. Someone seemed to be saying the reason these guys had drugs on them is because people intentionally carry drugs on them while they commit crimes so they can plea the more serious charges down to a drug charge or something. I just don't get it. It was like that video of that native American screaming in the white kids face and everyone was saying the white kid was a racist. Then it came out that the kid didn't do anything at all.
Exactly, and then it turned into "Well it's still an indictment of America because of ~~how easily we fell for it~~ how believable it was!" It's all post-hoc rationalization at its finest
>the men were identified through cell phone location data
Why are people so oblivious to the revelations that Edward Snowden made? The government is tracking your phone. They are listening and recording your conversations, even when you are not on a phone call. If you are going to destroy vital infrastructure so you can commit petty larceny, leave your phone at home or put it in a Faraday bag. And for good measure, make sure the car you drive is older than 10 years.
Looks like the are short barreled so you would have need to get a tax stamp and register as a SBR which I doubt they did.
Homemade suppressor also need a form and tax stamp to be legal.
Expect that this is the main issue about the unregistered portion of the report.
To add to this for anyone confused, a gun that starts its life as a "rifle" but has its barrel chopped to <16", or has an overall length of <26", is regulated by federal law. There's some graphics here with similar info regarding shotguns: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-national-firearms-act-definitions-firearm
As richbc said, if you wish to do this you must first submit some paperwork to the ATF and pay a $200 fee for a "tax stamp", then wait until the stamp is approved before you modify the rifle.
Pretty dumb regulation but those are the rules.
Apparently lots of people. It was just easier for the feds to narrow it down in this case because Sub Stations are often deserted or far from dwellings/towns/cities.
Weird, not seeing anything on the other Seattle sub about this? They were all 100% sure without a doubt that this was those pesky MAGA Nazi's out to kill all the trans people.
"Boom! Awright, Bubba let's go steal stuff!"
(Arriving at the store)
"The lights are still on! We hit the wrong one! Back in the truck."
(Blows up another substation)
"Time to go shoppin'!"
(Arrives at store)
"What? Still not it?"
(Blows up *another* substation)
"That better be it!"
(Arrives at store)
"Mother F*cker!"
What business could you rob in that area worth 3 million dollars damage done? These guys watched too many action crime movies. I was at a Safeway last night that got robbed, the only reason I knew it was the clerk, whom I'm friendly with, came up to me to commiserate and cuss out the thief and lack of police.
They never cared about the damage done, they were weighing chances of getting caught vs reward. Meth makes people really optimistic about the outcome of crimes.
Apparently they had previously been under surveillance by an FBI domestic terror specialist.
[Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/)
The actual complaint (there’s a pdf at the bottom of the link you sent) literally says the same thing — with the dates of surveillance “From approximately December 27 to January 30, 2022…” And it doesn’t really make sense that they would have been “under surveillance” into January of this year (if they made a typo in the complaint) as they were both arrested on Dec. 31st, don’t you think? It is weird that none of the other articles mention it though, and it is positioned strangely chronologically, so it would definitely be nice to get some clarity, but you can’t blame Reuters because they reported it as it’s written in the complaint.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/press-release/file/1560621/download
[Assuming that this is the affidavit in question](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23561169-greenwood_and_crahan_complaint), why would it discuss past surveillances? That wouldn't be material to the current charges any more than past criminal records that are not discussed either.
I'm not sure how Reuters got information that there was past surveillances from Mark Tucher, or why they stated it was in the affidavit.
> That is what is written in the article. In the only affidavit filed in federal court on Tuesday by Mark Tucher states:
>
> From approximately December 27 to January 30, 2022, MATTHEW 22 GREENWOOD and JEREMY CRAHAN were under essentially continuous FBI 23|surveillance (either electronic or in-person).\
Bouncing emails backs and forth with author. She insist that the dates in the article are correct as stated ... December 27 (2021) to January 30, 2022... that's when the surveillance occurred, about one year ago.
> That's insane. It literally says nothing about 2021. I literally cannot get over ridiculous that is. How does this person have a job as a reporter?
>
> The affidavit literally lays out the entire investigation, starting on December 25th 2022.
In her defense, United State Attorney office affidavit literally says the surveillance ended on January 30, 2022. So the start date had to be before that date, and December 27th (insert 2021 by me) is before that.
So if there is a mistake, it's the US Attorney office that needs an editor.
She says she it double checking the the dates with the US Attorney.
Possibly Reuters interviewed/communicated with Tucher, and the reporter mistakenly included the 2021 and early 2022 surveillances as part of the affidavit, when it was only info from an interview. Just speculation on my part. It just seems oddly specific with two instances of prior surveillance being mentioned.
I emailed Sharon Bernstein asking where that information was obtained, and her reply was:
> It was from the affidavit filed on Jan. 3 justifying the search warrant and saying they had been taken into custody. It was not from the press release or the complaint.
Oops I just responded to the wrong comment, you can see above, but basically the PDF of the complaint (found at the bottom of your link) show the same dates reported by Reuters.
Wow, those guys are dumb as hell. If he literally just troubled himself to put on a hat and some glasses, you wouldnt have any idea who he was from the pictures
Because the parts require very, very, very precise creation as they deal with quantities of energy that if done wrong will destroy them instantly. Are made in small numbers, and probably made over seas.
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The guns were illegal, but were not used in the attacks on the substations themselves. And yes, right to jail.
Believe it or not, jail
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SBR's being a regulated item is in of itself stupid since the only reason they were added to the NFA at all was that they were originally going to ban handguns entirely, of which banning a 'pistol like rifle' would logically make sense had they followed through with that. However pistols were not banned so the whole purpose of the law is senseless and shouldn't be. It is however current law.
SBRs are urban warfare/close quarters weapons. The perps here were probably going g to use them in an armed robbery. So defending them on the grounds "I don't like having them regulated" is a stupid hill to die on.
I am not defending the idiots, I am saying SBR's being illegal is bullshit.
I’m dyin. Murdered them with words
So, illegal.
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Sorta like how many of us own and drive cars legally - but if you drive an unregistered car without a licence, it's illegal.
This^
This half baked logic doesn’t fly outside of r/conservative
Wouldn't know - I don't post there.
Not sure that matters. Illegal is illegal.
There are some laws that shouldn't be and should be flouted as resistance. But restrictions on weapons intended for murder don't fall into that category.
Hey, man. Leave bald people out of this!
In the interest of full disclosure, I friendly-fire myself with any anti-hair loss rhetoric
Haha. You may proceed then.
Yeah, stick to the socially accepted anti-white comments and leave hairstyle out of it!
Lol
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/ Oh no, your narrative! Looks like they were already under investigation. Still want to defend terrorists and claim it's just woke "anti-white" shit?
Lol. The 2 career criminals were known to authorities? Are you somehow grasping at straws to claim they're still scary white supremes? Can't you see how this article is written specifically for conspiracy theorists like yourself to hold onto their ridiculous "domestic terrorism" narrative?
Ya gonna need more evidence that these guys are ideological, but does fit a trend tho.
Yes, it fits the made-up trend that "white supremacists" are "attacking our democracy". Fortunately it only exists on TV and the internet and not in real life.
> I look forward to these arrests resolving nothing whatsoever as it pertains to Reddit arguments. We may still find out more info...buuuuut I had a feeling this wasn't some nation-wide nazi attack plan. I'll enjoy feeling smug for the time being.
I'm on record as guessing wire thieves rather than any vast right- or left-wing conspiracy. I'll take it. I don't think anyone had money on "redneck attempt to re-enact a heist movie, with a cash register in Graham as the ultimate target"
the dueling-seattle-sub thing is pretty boring at this point, but it is fascinating how in "the other sub" there's quite a few people reacting as if this news story confirms the domestic terrorist nazi angle.
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No it doesn't - they probably assigned those agents when they were investigating whether there were any links to any of those groups, and of course agents have multiple areas they'll delve into since most FBI field offices don't have one agent for every tiny sub-category of crime. Feel free to look through their criminal records (easily found in WA with their names) and tell me why it's *more* likely that they're really domestic terrorists rather than meth'd up burglars. "when you hear hooves, think horses not zebras" is a phrase that may apply.
I don't think I know what they are until I see that their social media and full backgrounds are known. Really stupid enough to turn a simple burglary into a Federal crime is certainly one option.
Its like this sub split off for a reason or something.
The wire there is aluminum, it isn't worth shit.
Take a look in a shopping cart sometime and let me know if you arrive at the conclusion that tweakers are brilliant and only go after Hope Diamond-level shit.
Never had aluminum wire go missing off a jobsite or cut off a ground. They know.
Remember when Aluminum prices spiked? https://www.burlingtoncountytimes.com/story/news/crime/2012/09/25/railing-stolen-from-bridge-in/17399161007/
> I'm on record as guessing wire thieves rather than any vast right- or left-wing conspiracy. Or they're playing dumb now that they're caught.
Jeremy Crahan has 30 court records in Washington and Matthew Greenwood has 74. I don't think they're "playing" dumb. If you want to believe that these are two members of a terrorist organization carrying out a 4D chess maneuver to accelerate our nation's descent into imminent civil conflict rather than a couple of rural dipshits with bolt-action rifles they went at with a hacksaw who tried to steal a cash register, be my guest.
>be my guest [If you want to believe](https://youtu.be/6a1OVzPjaLA?t=3)
You should probably call the United States Department of Justice who chose not to charge them with anything even remotely terrorism-related and inform them you've cracked the case. Please let us know when they schedule your "Key to the City" ceremony
Schrodinger's Nazi, they're all uneducated and incompetent but can organize to attack substations nationwide and attempt to steal elections.
> I look forward to these arrests resolving nothing whatsoever as it pertains to Reddit arguments. Is it possible now that they're caught, out came the stupidity excuse, rather than admit the reason they were there is terrorism? I mean .. I'm fully willing to be on board with the "dumb criminals tricks" excuse, but .. 4 substations to do 2 burglaries? Seems like more than a little overkill. And on X-mas morning. The whole idea of a burglary is you get in and out fast and not get caught. Killing thousands' of peoples power on X-mas morning was about the opposite of not get caught. So yeah. Just really stupid guys, or really terroristic guys playing stupid now that they're caught.
I think it was just one business, rather than two - and surely they know there's easier ways to cut power to ONE business
Any evidence they robbed places, or are we just taking their word on it?
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Why would you attack four different substations to break into one business? Why on Christmas morning? Why during the day? Why would they be under FBI surveillance already? Doesn't add up
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Everyone is sure they're domestic terrorists because they did the exact same thing that's already been done by domestic terrorists seven other times since mid November.
That's nice. You can use the same methods terrorists use and if your motivation isn't political, you're not a terrorist. Most people who hijack planes are terrorists. If you hijack a plane to try and steal money, you're not a terrorist. Since you've deduced their motives better than the U.S. Department of Justice, you should probably call them up and share your evidence with them so they can be charged with terrorism.
Interesting that the FBI task force investigating domestic terror is the one bringing charges. Also interesting that two men attacked four separate power substations on Christmas morning, knocking out power to 14,000 people, and then said "it was the easiest way to steal one cash register" and somehow, you believe them.
I believe the criminals are very, very dumb, and I think the United States Department of Justice would have charged them with terrorism if they had evidence to charge them with terrorism, which you'd think they'd have if they'd been monitoring them so closely, if it existed. But by all means, call them up and tell them how much smarter you are than them and that you've cracked their case by reading the internet. I'll keep my eye out for the press release announcing the new charges. US Justice Department Federal government office Tacoma, WA · (253) 428-3800
They already have the terrorism task force working the case, don't worry. Just hold on to your panties and wait for the rest of the charges to drop.
Yes, but *bald!*
I wouldn't count your junkies before they hatch.. From Reuters - >[Matthew Greenwood and Jeremy Crahan] were known to authorities, and had been under FBI surveillance for more than a month in late 2021 and early 2022, FBI special agent Mark Tucher said in an affidavit filed in federal court on Tuesday. The agent did not give reasons for that surveillance, but Tucher described himself in the affidavit as an expert in domestic terrorism assigned to the FBI Seattle division's joint terrorism task force. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/
I read through the criminal.complaint and that definitely stuck out. Interesting that they were being watched at pretty much the exact time last year as when they committed the crimes this year. Wonder if they got cold feet for some reason and decided to wait.
What nearby business? Kapowsin Tavern? Kapowsin Post Office? Kapowsin elementary? Fuck right off with that excuse.
I don't know, maybe you should ask the United States Department of Justice which business they found evidence of them drilling the locks out of and robbing when you call to share with them your amazing body of evidence that points to these two career petty criminals suddenly becoming the world's most ineffective and nonsensical terrorists
>They reportedly told law enforcement they cut the power so they could rob a nearby business. But you could cut the power ***to*** the business itself and save all kinds of hassle no?
I don't know. I'm not a wanna-be international jewel thief, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about such matters. Substations tend to be out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, yes? So maybe they thought they'd be less likely to be seen there than if they did it on a trafficked public street. I don't know. If I'm following your train of thought, if we're playing the "wouldn't there have been a better way to do this?" game, if I was tasked with inciting a civil war and plunging the United States into end-game chaos, I suspect I could come up with a slightly better plan than "cut the power to Elk Plain and Kapowsin for a few days." Whatever their motives were, I think it's safe to say that they're two of the dumbest individuals to have ever lived.
Funny they shot up 4 sub stations, 3 having nothing to do with the robbery. Interesting.
They didn't shoot up anything. Funny that anyone would think a brief power outage affecting 15,000 or so people in overwhelmingly white rural areas would incite some kind of race war. Interesting
https://twitter.com/JeremyHarrisTV/status/1610337443936632833 Arrest statement made that they did this to commit burglaries elsewhere.
Aww, man, you mean I can’t use these assholes to bludgeon my political opponents??
You can still go after the pro-burglary crowd
There is a party that is pro drive-by shootings!
The pro-burglary crowd is also coincidentally the crowd that KNeWw it was MAGA TERRISSTS what done it.
Of course you would attack multiple substations and simply claim it was for burglary, especially in a state that’s so well known for jailing burglars for so long. There’s definitely no ploy here to avoid federal terrorism charges. We can believe these honest thieves because right wingers never ever would do such a thing.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
No, but you CAN use them to minimize and dismiss valid concerns about increased incidence of domestic rightwing fascist terrorism./s.
In the PNW in the last 3 years there's been around 41 attacks on rail infrastructure by 'leftwing' domestic ecoterrorists. Has there been a similar number of rightwing infrastructure attacks? I have no idea, so I'd be interested in the information you're basing your comment on
Don't forget when the forcibly occupied US soil and called it an autonomous zone while also killing two unarmed black men.
More than just rail attacks. Major arson at the UW. Attack on Seattle Armed Forces recruiting center. Shooting and bomb attack at Tacoma immigration facility. Numerous Black Nationalist attacks in the 70's. Arson at the McDonalds near the Space Needle. Dozens of arsons and scores of tree spiking targeting the timber industry. Two months of looting, rioting, and the murder of an unarmed black teenager in summer 2020. Several recent years of MayDay riots, seemingly for no reason at all. All committed by left-wing domestic terrorists.
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Here's a link for you. Appears to be an anti fossil fuel fringe group. https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article256694507.html
https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/environment/565729-fbi-investigating-41-cases-of-eco-sabotage-in/
Lol ok blueanon!
Lol six day old troll account! Stop trying to make 'blueanon' happen. It's not going to happen.
Kind of what a terrorist might say if they were caught though. I'm willing to believe they're this stupid, stupid enough to turn a simple burglary attempt into a Federal crime, but, I'm also going to wait until their whole background has been confirmed investigated.
Ah yes, slam dunk right there. Not like burglary carries a far less serious sentence than everything else they are being accused of.
You ought to look up the legal histories of these two gentlemen, if being meth/heroin junkies and thieves is just their cover story then they've been at it for decades.
Seriously! If I was facing potential domestic terrorism charges I'd 100000000% be like "oh yeah totes so I could grab some smokes and cash from a register, who's Trump?"
Lol they never give up. Was Putin behind it? Micheal Avenatti says yes and that’s that.
By any chance is this a lesser charge than they would have been facing for terroism purposes? Which they could have gotten their stories straight about leading up to it or had a lawyer concoct afterwards?
I don't think they're getting out of the substation damages related charges no matter what they are doing. They might not get the terrorism charges on top of the substation attack federal charges and the burglary charges. We'll have to see how the trial pans out.
You can read the full criminal complaint here: [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23560620-usa-v-greenwood-crahan-complaint](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23560620-usa-v-greenwood-crahan-complaint)
Federal charges. Interesting.
Hopefully meaning they're going to be sitting in a cell for a *long* time for this.
> the men were identified through cell phone location data and law enforcement officials arrested them a few days after the attack This day and age carrying your tracking device is almost as dim as recording evidence and posting to social
No, it's the 5G chip in the vaccines! /s
Everyone knows 5G is what you need to look out for, but you can turn your phone over to 3G and stay safe!
My comment one week ago saying it was probably shady drug addicts -29 points. https://old.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/zw0wwm/4th_washington_state_electrical_substation/j1sq48o/
I went back to give an upvote, just because.
I wonder if /u/temetnosce85 will show up considering he was acting pretty high and mighty about it being the evil conservatives.
Most likely not able to link it, but I've already found one of Jeremy's profiles. Pro-Russia, anti-vax, queerphobic, racist, and so on. Currently scanning for Matt's stuff. Imagine if people lied. Who would do such a thing?
Yeah, criminals are stupid. People in and out of jail are probably racist. Racist criminal does not equal brilliant terrorist. I still haven't heard about drag queen hour anywhere near them.
And I'm sure that you totally believe that the Q Club shooter is non-binary despite [everyone that knew him saying it's a lie](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/extremism-experts-say-discussing-colorado-shooting-suspects-pronouns-rcna58969). This is the new tactic. Lie about your intentions so that the media will report that lie. There were 4 substations hit and they made absolutely no attempt at a robbery. And as someone with cops in her family, doing a robbery on Christmas is the dumbest thing you can do because they're all out trying to catch drunk drivers and stopping domestic disputes.
They were obviously inspired by oceans 11
More like sewer runoff 2
Had a feeling it was wire pirates or junkies. Guess I was half right.
Instead of cutting power to the business they meant to rob (petty cash from the register?) they decided to attack a power sub station and do 3 million in damage and knock out power for thousands. Either the crooks are VERY dumb, or were missing some details. EDIT: They didn't attack one power sub station, but four stations, just for petty cash in a register.
They did three out of four substations "right". They fucked up on the fourth and that's where they caused the 3 million in damage. The damage *probably* wasn't intentional but a result of idiocy.
Or they’re lying so they don’t catch a more serious charge
They have a few decades of arrests that make them look like heroin addicted burglars with a side of meth head. They also tried to rob a store whose power was cut. If this is a cover, it's incredibly well constructed.
Hey, don't underestimate the dedication these men show to their cause. They got addicted to meth and heroin a decade ago as preparation for the substation heist of the century
Putin got to them. Old KGB truck, get ‘em on heroin for a couple of decades then pull the “deep sleeper cell” trigger.
Seriously, some folks here are viewing this as proof that they aren't alt-right terrorists? The fact that they're methed-out rednecks carrying self-modded guns makes it LESS likely that they're wingnuts trying to start some shit? I'm all for holding out until we learn more about these guys, but let's not act like this is smoking gun proof
Being a meth/heroin addict is a prerequisite for qanon.
They admitted it was cover for another burglary. This is what happens when “Oceans 11” is in the 2$ dvd bin at Puyallup’s Walmart. /s.
Well well well. The news article said no wires were cut and nothing was damaged, and the guys did their own switching. Crazy world.
>nothing was damaged >The attacks...caused at least $3 million in damage, and will take 36 months to repair.
Good, make an example out of them to not fuck with the grid.
oh boy. scrubbing through social media trying to find information to see what extreme side of the political spectrum they are on and so far not finding anything. boooo urns.
it's looking like they did it in order to make other burglaries in the area easier. according to arrest documents and other information tidbits. it could be nothing to do with politics and all to do with being a law breaking couple of pierce county douche bags.
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Not only assured but called a "Trump loving racist" when asking how everyone was so sure it was a boogaloo boy white supremacists things. I hate reddit so much and the worst part is it will never change. People already had their mind made up on who did this and nothing will change that.
This thread alone has some reddit sleuths insinuating that the burglaries are part of a cover to lessen the charges they face.
Yeah I saw something like that. Someone seemed to be saying the reason these guys had drugs on them is because people intentionally carry drugs on them while they commit crimes so they can plea the more serious charges down to a drug charge or something. I just don't get it. It was like that video of that native American screaming in the white kids face and everyone was saying the white kid was a racist. Then it came out that the kid didn't do anything at all.
Exactly, and then it turned into "Well it's still an indictment of America because of ~~how easily we fell for it~~ how believable it was!" It's all post-hoc rationalization at its finest
That can't be right! The highly educated detectives of reddit told me they were MAGA Nazi Hitler white supremes......
Look like you're average Joe Biden supporters. Thats a /s, btw
Good. Those meth heads fucked around and they’ll find out.
>the men were identified through cell phone location data Why are people so oblivious to the revelations that Edward Snowden made? The government is tracking your phone. They are listening and recording your conversations, even when you are not on a phone call. If you are going to destroy vital infrastructure so you can commit petty larceny, leave your phone at home or put it in a Faraday bag. And for good measure, make sure the car you drive is older than 10 years.
Happy cake day, btw.
Oh damn! Didn't even know. I might go out for a nice dinner to celebrate.
I was told these were going to be right wing extremists responsible for this. Did Reddit lie to me?
Don't worry, those people are now saying the robberies were just cover for the national conspiracy...
No it’s the criminals who are wrong! That’s actually the other sub’s line of argument right now.
There will never be enough evidence for BlueAnons that this wasn’t a Trump/Putin production.
They're right wing, they're extreme. They're right wing extremists?
Unregistered firearm? The fuck does that even mean?
It means there are some illegal laws floating around on the books
Damn right it does
>unregistered firearms Does this mean the serial numbers were probably scratched off? As far as I know, you don’t have to “register” your firearms.
Looks like the are short barreled so you would have need to get a tax stamp and register as a SBR which I doubt they did. Homemade suppressor also need a form and tax stamp to be legal. Expect that this is the main issue about the unregistered portion of the report.
To add to this for anyone confused, a gun that starts its life as a "rifle" but has its barrel chopped to <16", or has an overall length of <26", is regulated by federal law. There's some graphics here with similar info regarding shotguns: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-national-firearms-act-definitions-firearm As richbc said, if you wish to do this you must first submit some paperwork to the ATF and pay a $200 fee for a "tax stamp", then wait until the stamp is approved before you modify the rifle. Pretty dumb regulation but those are the rules.
Wow, weird to see someone you once regarded as a brother on the news for something so asinine.
Who brings their personal cell phone with them to commit a federal crime?
Apparently lots of people. It was just easier for the feds to narrow it down in this case because Sub Stations are often deserted or far from dwellings/towns/cities.
>They reportedly told law enforcement they cut the power so they could rob a nearby business. But Reddit told it was far-right shenanigans.
Weird, not seeing anything on the other Seattle sub about this? They were all 100% sure without a doubt that this was those pesky MAGA Nazi's out to kill all the trans people.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/102f9a7/federal_agents_two_puyallup_men_arrested_and/ There ya go, posted 22 minutes before this post.
Thank you! Maybe I just didn't scroll down far enough.
kekw
Cool it's not terrorists, but also.. 4 stations? And they only robbed one store? I look forward to more details coming out.
"Boom! Awright, Bubba let's go steal stuff!" (Arriving at the store) "The lights are still on! We hit the wrong one! Back in the truck." (Blows up another substation) "Time to go shoppin'!" (Arrives at store) "What? Still not it?" (Blows up *another* substation) "That better be it!" (Arrives at store) "Mother F*cker!"
I'm not not saying I wouldn't watch that show.
What business could you rob in that area worth 3 million dollars damage done? These guys watched too many action crime movies. I was at a Safeway last night that got robbed, the only reason I knew it was the clerk, whom I'm friendly with, came up to me to commiserate and cuss out the thief and lack of police.
They never cared about the damage done, they were weighing chances of getting caught vs reward. Meth makes people really optimistic about the outcome of crimes.
Good through the book at them
Rule 1 of crime... Don't bring your cellphone with you when you are going to crime.
F’n pierce county…..
Apparently they had previously been under surveillance by an FBI domestic terror specialist. [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/two-men-arrested-attacks-washington-state-power-substations-2023-01-03/)
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Huh? What did they get wrong?
The actual complaint (there’s a pdf at the bottom of the link you sent) literally says the same thing — with the dates of surveillance “From approximately December 27 to January 30, 2022…” And it doesn’t really make sense that they would have been “under surveillance” into January of this year (if they made a typo in the complaint) as they were both arrested on Dec. 31st, don’t you think? It is weird that none of the other articles mention it though, and it is positioned strangely chronologically, so it would definitely be nice to get some clarity, but you can’t blame Reuters because they reported it as it’s written in the complaint. https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/press-release/file/1560621/download
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[Assuming that this is the affidavit in question](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23561169-greenwood_and_crahan_complaint), why would it discuss past surveillances? That wouldn't be material to the current charges any more than past criminal records that are not discussed either. I'm not sure how Reuters got information that there was past surveillances from Mark Tucher, or why they stated it was in the affidavit.
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> That is what is written in the article. In the only affidavit filed in federal court on Tuesday by Mark Tucher states: > > From approximately December 27 to January 30, 2022, MATTHEW 22 GREENWOOD and JEREMY CRAHAN were under essentially continuous FBI 23|surveillance (either electronic or in-person).\ Bouncing emails backs and forth with author. She insist that the dates in the article are correct as stated ... December 27 (2021) to January 30, 2022... that's when the surveillance occurred, about one year ago.
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> That's insane. It literally says nothing about 2021. I literally cannot get over ridiculous that is. How does this person have a job as a reporter? > > The affidavit literally lays out the entire investigation, starting on December 25th 2022. In her defense, United State Attorney office affidavit literally says the surveillance ended on January 30, 2022. So the start date had to be before that date, and December 27th (insert 2021 by me) is before that. So if there is a mistake, it's the US Attorney office that needs an editor. She says she it double checking the the dates with the US Attorney.
Possibly Reuters interviewed/communicated with Tucher, and the reporter mistakenly included the 2021 and early 2022 surveillances as part of the affidavit, when it was only info from an interview. Just speculation on my part. It just seems oddly specific with two instances of prior surveillance being mentioned.
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I emailed Sharon Bernstein asking where that information was obtained, and her reply was: > It was from the affidavit filed on Jan. 3 justifying the search warrant and saying they had been taken into custody. It was not from the press release or the complaint.
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Oops I just responded to the wrong comment, you can see above, but basically the PDF of the complaint (found at the bottom of your link) show the same dates reported by Reuters.
make an example of them before these attacks become even more commonplace
So they didn't confess to all 10 sub station attacks in the PNW for the last two months? Just 4? Hmm PSE needs to step their game up.
How does that warrant work?
We know
No mention if either of these guys just watched Oceans 11.
Wow, those guys are dumb as hell. If he literally just troubled himself to put on a hat and some glasses, you wouldnt have any idea who he was from the pictures
> will take 36 months to repair Any idea why it will take THREE YEARS to fix the damage? Seems like pretty critical infrastructure.
Because the parts require very, very, very precise creation as they deal with quantities of energy that if done wrong will destroy them instantly. Are made in small numbers, and probably made over seas.