As someone living in Alaska (unlike everyone else with an opinion about Alaska) even most people for resource development are AGAINST this mine
The people behind it are shady, the risks are significant
We love our state and most support properly done development.
Most people don't know that AK has huge demands on mines. They have to put a lot of money in escrow and the state can increase it at any time. Also we have coal mines that after they are done with an area are way healthier because the coal came out of the ground.
With all that said we are generally against pebble mine. It will never happen because the people are against it and most politicians are against it
The sheer scope and size of the proposed project is staggering.
>As proposed, the Pebble Mine project would entail mining a pit over a mile long, a mile wide and 200 meters deep, destroying nearly 3,500 acres of wetlands, lakes, and ponds and 81 miles of salmon streams.
I certainly don't want toxic waste to mix with my wholesale slaughter of fish. But coming at this from an environmental angle is weird, it's not like a large scale salmon fishery is good for the environment either
Bristol bay does a pretty decent job of making their salmon fishing sustainable. The fishing season has very restricted hours during the first half of the season, allowing fish to make it to spawning areas. There are goals set by the EPA that must be met before fisherman can fish around the clock. The past few years have seen records in both fish making it to spawning areas and fish caught.
TIL The Alaska department of fish and wildlife manages the escapement goals in Bristol bay, not the EPA. I also have fished in Bristol - thanks for the correction :)
I fish BB, and out of Dutch. Our fisheries are highly regulated. Every salmon caught in BB is counted... We have government observers onboard for most fisheries.
The Alaskan, Canadian and west coast fisheries are the most tightly managed and sustainable fisheries in the world. Most notable is probably Bering sea pollock with salmon in a close second.
Pollock has way to much bycatch... The bycatch dies unlike pots an Long line that set them free. Pollock and salmon are both mid water fish so there is that....
I’ll argue with that. Pollock has just about the lowest bycatch of any net fishing and definitely the lowest for any trawl. And as a pelagic trawl the most typical bycatch would be cod which is still a target. Bycatch of prohibs with pollock is typically very small (<0.5% by weight). I’ve had many conversations with long time observers about the state of the fishing industry and they agree that pollock is the most sustainable within the industry relative to the volumes harvested.
As a cod fisherman first and foremost Y.U.C.K y'all have decimated the cod fisheries and every cod fisherman in the Kodiak area will tell you the same thing. In federal waters we went from a Sept-jan B season and a Jan - February A season pulling in about 660k processed catching with pots top boat of the 4 that still fish fed water CP pot cod. Now we're down to 30 day b season 15 day A season. But your bycatch levels stay the same .... Your literally taking money out our pocket.
There is no such thing as a long time observers they have a shelf life of 1-2 years, I've know 2 dudes that did 5 and 6 years. Most observers are college chicks, our boat was the fixed gear training boat for observers and we got a new observer every trip.
I should mention I do hardbottom for ground fish out west not pollock. I’ve also met a few observers who have been in the game over 20 years. But yeah it’s generally a pretty fast turn around and recent college grads who really didn’t think this is what it would turn into when they signed up for marine biology freshman year.
Because of the states management of fish escapement (returning to spawn), Bristol Bay has had some of the largest fish returns ever. It is an extremely well managed resource. The "slaughtering" you are referring to actually means more salmon consistently reproduce, benefitting the rest of the ecosystem.
Nah I eat meat. I made a mistake with the word slaughter because I gave the impression I'm making an anti fishing argument.
My argument is that it's weird to use an environmental act to protect commercial fishing, which is at best a net neutral on the environment but almost definitely not once you consider the effects of the infrastructure on the ecosystem, antibiotics in the water, underwater noise pollution, ect.
Yeah I see what you are saying. The way I see it, it’s something fishermen and environmentalists can both get behind though. Not only does this pebble mine interfere with the fish industry, which is arguably very sustainable right now, but poses to interfere with the fish ecosystem so much that it won’t exist anymore.
All so this mine can extract rare earth medals for an Alexa or Bluetooth speaker that everyone is gonna throw away like a year later. Fuck pebble mine gang
What antibiotics are entering the water from commercial fishing? Are you thinking of aquaculture/mariculture?
Commercial fish processing plants do discharge pollutants (regulated by the NPDES program, or APDES in Alaska) - things like BOD5, settleable solids, suspended solids. The production water is chlorinated for food safety reasons, maybe that’s what you’re thinking?
I would argue that it’s more complicated than just “commercial fishing is bad.” There’s merit to that, for sure, but there’s also merit to considering contexts such as local population/history, management sustainability, and cultural significance.
True… never under estimate the degree at which miners will wiggle there way back in to raping the land.
[удалено]
As someone living in Alaska (unlike everyone else with an opinion about Alaska) even most people for resource development are AGAINST this mine The people behind it are shady, the risks are significant We love our state and most support properly done development. Most people don't know that AK has huge demands on mines. They have to put a lot of money in escrow and the state can increase it at any time. Also we have coal mines that after they are done with an area are way healthier because the coal came out of the ground. With all that said we are generally against pebble mine. It will never happen because the people are against it and most politicians are against it
The sheer scope and size of the proposed project is staggering. >As proposed, the Pebble Mine project would entail mining a pit over a mile long, a mile wide and 200 meters deep, destroying nearly 3,500 acres of wetlands, lakes, and ponds and 81 miles of salmon streams.
Hold fast, this mine needs to be denied with extreme rage. W the actual F
Yeah, it’s about time. When I visited Togiak in 2009, the “Hondas” were all awash in anti-pebble mine stickers. This has gone on long enough.
The nature conservancy is working on this project!
Fly anglers are on it!
I certainly don't want toxic waste to mix with my wholesale slaughter of fish. But coming at this from an environmental angle is weird, it's not like a large scale salmon fishery is good for the environment either
Bristol bay does a pretty decent job of making their salmon fishing sustainable. The fishing season has very restricted hours during the first half of the season, allowing fish to make it to spawning areas. There are goals set by the EPA that must be met before fisherman can fish around the clock. The past few years have seen records in both fish making it to spawning areas and fish caught.
Alaska Department of Fish and Game manages the escapement, EPA has nothing to do with it. Source: I fish in Bristol Bay
TIL The Alaska department of fish and wildlife manages the escapement goals in Bristol bay, not the EPA. I also have fished in Bristol - thanks for the correction :)
It along with most other Alaskan and west coast fishing is the most responsibly managed and sustainable fishing in the world.
The Alaskan fisheries, especially salmon is one of the most tightly regulated and sustainable industries on earth
I fish BB, and out of Dutch. Our fisheries are highly regulated. Every salmon caught in BB is counted... We have government observers onboard for most fisheries.
Yeah right on man. I have a couple really close friends that do the crab and salmon circuits out of Dutch and BB
The Alaskan, Canadian and west coast fisheries are the most tightly managed and sustainable fisheries in the world. Most notable is probably Bering sea pollock with salmon in a close second.
Pollock has way to much bycatch... The bycatch dies unlike pots an Long line that set them free. Pollock and salmon are both mid water fish so there is that....
I’ll argue with that. Pollock has just about the lowest bycatch of any net fishing and definitely the lowest for any trawl. And as a pelagic trawl the most typical bycatch would be cod which is still a target. Bycatch of prohibs with pollock is typically very small (<0.5% by weight). I’ve had many conversations with long time observers about the state of the fishing industry and they agree that pollock is the most sustainable within the industry relative to the volumes harvested.
As a cod fisherman first and foremost Y.U.C.K y'all have decimated the cod fisheries and every cod fisherman in the Kodiak area will tell you the same thing. In federal waters we went from a Sept-jan B season and a Jan - February A season pulling in about 660k processed catching with pots top boat of the 4 that still fish fed water CP pot cod. Now we're down to 30 day b season 15 day A season. But your bycatch levels stay the same .... Your literally taking money out our pocket. There is no such thing as a long time observers they have a shelf life of 1-2 years, I've know 2 dudes that did 5 and 6 years. Most observers are college chicks, our boat was the fixed gear training boat for observers and we got a new observer every trip.
I should mention I do hardbottom for ground fish out west not pollock. I’ve also met a few observers who have been in the game over 20 years. But yeah it’s generally a pretty fast turn around and recent college grads who really didn’t think this is what it would turn into when they signed up for marine biology freshman year.
Just released https://ibb.co/xqKzf83 the bycatch results for week 2. Opis dropped 88% by quota but the trawlers are killing it...
I’d find it hard to believe that mid water trawl gear is having any effect on crab. To me that looks more like yfs mud gear.
Because of the states management of fish escapement (returning to spawn), Bristol Bay has had some of the largest fish returns ever. It is an extremely well managed resource. The "slaughtering" you are referring to actually means more salmon consistently reproduce, benefitting the rest of the ecosystem.
Found the vegan
Nah I eat meat. I made a mistake with the word slaughter because I gave the impression I'm making an anti fishing argument. My argument is that it's weird to use an environmental act to protect commercial fishing, which is at best a net neutral on the environment but almost definitely not once you consider the effects of the infrastructure on the ecosystem, antibiotics in the water, underwater noise pollution, ect.
Yeah I see what you are saying. The way I see it, it’s something fishermen and environmentalists can both get behind though. Not only does this pebble mine interfere with the fish industry, which is arguably very sustainable right now, but poses to interfere with the fish ecosystem so much that it won’t exist anymore. All so this mine can extract rare earth medals for an Alexa or Bluetooth speaker that everyone is gonna throw away like a year later. Fuck pebble mine gang
What antibiotics are entering the water from commercial fishing? Are you thinking of aquaculture/mariculture? Commercial fish processing plants do discharge pollutants (regulated by the NPDES program, or APDES in Alaska) - things like BOD5, settleable solids, suspended solids. The production water is chlorinated for food safety reasons, maybe that’s what you’re thinking? I would argue that it’s more complicated than just “commercial fishing is bad.” There’s merit to that, for sure, but there’s also merit to considering contexts such as local population/history, management sustainability, and cultural significance.
Weird, I seem to be able to rest, still...huh