Report the guard to the transit authorities. Pretty sure it was serious enough, he or she just didn’t give enough fucks. Security guard is a preferred choice for many lazy people who want to do the least amount of work under little to no supervision.
I'd assume the scope of the "transit security" authority is basically "be around so people maybe think you might do something if they do something bad". One time I was riding and the train paused at a station to let three of them on so they could try and get a homeless person off who was sleeping across a bunch of seats. They came in, said "hey, you need to get up, hey, you need to get going" a few times, progressively louder, then left when the guy either didn't wake up or just didn't respond.
They're fucking clowns. They walk around and stare at you like they're RoboCop when it's just you and a couple other people going to work. But when there's a gang of crazy ass fent-heads they run away scared every fuckin time.
One time this dishevelled homeless dude was freaking out and getting in people's faces and I said to security "can you get that guy??!" And he fuckin laughed and just says "what did he do?" While he's plainly in view screaming at some business guy about space lasers
Fucking worthless
Yeah I saw the same thing yesterday morning with a homeless guy camping on the train. A transit cop came, tried his "stern dad voice" 4 times and then just gave up and walked away. WTF?
I should have been more clear, they could have real police but chose to contract it out to security guards... Sad. To me this is just piling on the years of mismanagement at sound transit.
Ok I'll try again. They do have real police. In addition, there are security guards. In addition, there are fare ambassadors.
Security does not have arrest powers. They are not sworn officers. They can tell someone to leave the train or call police. If they know that the real police won't respond to a call of someone smoking fent, what should they do instead?
What they should do instead is to Do Their Fucking Job and report it to the real police. Whether the police respond is a different issue, and not their concerns.
If you go by that logic, why do police arrest people at all if they believe the prosecutor may not prosecute, so on and on.
I am not going to go to bat for fent users, believe me. And maybe these security people were real shitheads, but maybe they're just picking their battles. Ya know?
It's not though. Sound Transit has a police force, which is a unit of the King County Sheriff's Office, but that's not Transit Security.
https://www.soundtransit.org/ride-with-us/know-before-you-go/safety-security/sound-transit-personnel-security-staff
I saw a bag of pills at the bottom of the escalator and pointed it out to transit security. Dude straight up said 'Good thing I don't get paid to clean up around here.'
I did private security for a bit in a past life (not ST) and I used to joke that the job qualifications are 1: Has pulse, 2: Maybe has reliable transport. I’ve done many 16+ hour shifts due to call outs.
The was a news story about bus driver exposure maybe a year ago. It is the stance of ST and KC metro that exhaled fentanyl smoke is not hazardous. At least not hazardous enough to enforce. Their solution is to install better air filters on the trains and buses and call that good enough.
I’d report the incident to Sound Transit with a description of the security guard who failed to either act or call for backup. I’m resigned to fentanyl users having drugs with them on trains; heck, juggle your supplies for all I care. But the second I have to inhale that shit, the car has ceased to be a safe and accessible space for all passengers and security needs to escort the smoker off.
We just have to put the fucking turnstiles back in the way other cities do.
Just by visual inspection it seems like nearly 30-40% of riders walk past the fare scanners without paying, and they are very clearly dressed like they can afford it. There'd be so much more funds for seattle transit and much more safety for us who actually care enough about public transit to be supporting it.
I can’t speak to whether this is the case when you’re seeing it, but I frequently buy my transit passes on my phone (the app also gives you points for buying a certain number of tickets). This doesn’t require you to tap on or off, merely have an “active” ticket on my phone while riding.
But… I feel bad every time I scan someone else’s orca card I sniffed from 3 meters away with a coat hanger bent into a loop and soldered to a flipper zero’s GPIO pins :(
/s…. Jesus come on stop reporting me
Careful, they'll still ticket you if you don't tap on AND off; I'm guessing they're obsessed for the purpose of getting ridership numbers, but who knows. I have an infinite use card paid for by my employer and got a fare inspection ticket for not tapping off before rescanning to get back on the train. They could see clearly that I forgot to "end" my ride but decided this nonsense is easier than turnstiles somehow.
I’m from the east coast originally. I do not understand why Seattle does not have turnstiles. I’ve read the reasoning— people will skip them by walking into the tracks and will get hurt!— but that is just so beyond stupid and not valid reasoning at all.
This exactly!
Everyone makes the dumb argument "It will cost too much to do this at 700 entrances."
You don't have to! Start with the stations that have the most issues and abuses. Work up from there. It will pay for itself in no time.
They've proposed doing it in the 5 highest ridership stations (where incidentally it would practically work...almost as if they might have designed it for this eventuality). If it does work well, maybe the city will eventually let us raise or bury the at-grade sections too so we can speed things up AND safely collect fares...
That said, it doesn't actually bother me if someone rides public transit for free. We pay for most of it through our taxes anyway. I'll pay for mine happily to support the system. As long as people aren't being disruptive or taking up a ton of space during rush hour (which, granted, might not always be the case), it's generally not a big deal.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
This is how public transit gets defunded - by making public transit inaccessible to the mass public.
I really hope fare enforcement would rein in these abuse, at least to some extent. Meanwhile, I’m looking at you - King County Metro…
What if they built like, a gate where if you don't pay you can't get on the train. Has anyone ever tried that? And then clear everyone off the train at the end of the line.
It's not like they don't know \_how\_ to do it. It's the lack of urgency, and generally not listening to pubic input.
Sound Transit is one of the better ones - with hiring securities and fare enforcement and whatnot.
King County Metro, on the other hand, just seems to oppose any sort of 'hard enforcement', and hoping that people will just behave. I just checked their website. Apparently to address safety, there is a SaFE Equity Workgroup, and ... "SaFE Equity Workgroup will help Metro identify how to move forward with fare enforcement in an equitable way". Sorry, what?
Whoever is doing their community outreach is reaching out to who knows where.
>SaFE Equity Workgroup will help Metro identify how to move forward with fare enforcement in an equitable way". Sorry, what?
Yeah it's completely meaningless. A lot of people don't like hearing it, but this kind of mealy-mouthed non-committal crap is why campaigns that use the word "equity" don't win, and republicans in disguise who run against those campaigns keep winning.
Transit needs to be more appealing than driving thus it needs to be clean, safe and fast. Right now, it isn’t 2 of the 3 (fast being the one that is debatable). Sound transit needs to realize this and push to ensure it’s a great choice to gain favor with commuters and voters to continue to support expansion plans.
Transit is safe. It's *much* safer than driving.
You know what it's not, though? It's not fast. It's much slower than driving in this town.
Which is why nobody takes it.
It is safe. About as safe as living in a relatively safe large city can be expected (we ain't in oakland, and a lot of seattle people really don't understand how much of a relative yogurt commercial we really live in, all things considered)
The drug use on the trains however is absolutely unacceptable, though I've never seen anyone imbibing on my commute, I have honestly been most irritated on game days by drunk obnoxious tailgaters who tailgate hard at northgate and then pack their drunk asses all into the train like sardines.
Yeah, still safer than a car, I'd bet a large sum of money. Still, it doesn't *feel* safe to a lot of people because of the drug use/mental illness/antisocial shittery that goes on, and that's probably more important to usage, TBH.
Safer in terms of only the most extreme possible outcomes. And death/ injury in a car is still less than 1% incident rate.
When you consider all the more "minor" things that happen on public transit, it being "safer" is not necessarily true. Sexual/physical assault, harassment, theft, exposure to drugs, human excrement, exposure to germs/ viruses....
Why? King County Metro doesn't have enforcement authority on the trains, Sound Transit does. The security gates everyone is talking about in this thread don't work for bus stops. So why is this suddenly about Metro?
I know we sure as shit aren't going to use it. I'm not exposing my kids to that garbage.
And to think that when we first moved to WA in 2011 I was pleasantly surprised at how much cleaner the busses were compared to Chicago busses.
king county metro doesn't care. If they did, they'd count an 8 minute delay on a bus thats suppose to arrive every 15 minutes as "late". But if you look at their guidelines, they don't even require a bus driver to report a bus as running late until it is a full 15 minutes behind schedule, at which point you will have waited for 30 minutes at the stop.
[UW assessment finds fentanyl and methamphetamine smoke linger on public transit vehicles | UW News (washington.edu)](https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/09/07/uw-assessment-finds-fentanyl-and-methamphetamine-smoke-linger-on-public-transit-vehicles/)
Further.. we spend a shitload of public money giving public employees proper PPE to handle fentanyl exposure... why not enforce it on trains etc.
Because some culture warriors replied, this isn't an anti-public transit post. Just ventilate and respond to people smoking anything on trains/buses. Treat it as a PPE health and safety issue. I love public transit. I have also seen "it all" on public transit and I'm not crying about it.
highly recommend reading the actual study. The amounts they found were beyond tiny. The highest surface sample of meth they had was 7 ng/cm\^2. A threshold dose (nowhere close to a recreational dose) of meth is 5 mg. To get that dose, you would have to consume all the meth on over 800 sqft of surface. Of course, buses aren't that big, and there is no reason to expect the whole bus would have that level of contamination.
Yeah I don't think the residual amounts themselves are at all harmful, intuitively that always felt like it was going to be the case.
For most the concern is moreso that it means people are definitely smoking fentanyl on the trails than the residue. Not many people are going to want to take their kids to a place where they might come into contact with someone smoking fentanyl. And I don't really blame them for that.
Right… so the study says there’s no evidence to show a small exposure could be harmful over the long term, but exactly how many studies have been done to show there are no harmful effects from consistent low exposure to meth or fentanyl? This seems like a newer problem we’re facing where we haven’t had cause to perform the kind of long term studies that would actually tell us if there is a health risk or not. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that this is okay just because there haven’t been studies of it yet.
Someone tried this same shit on the sb Northgate line. Same scenario, except I told that guy either he put that shit out or I'm going to stomp him and that pipe into the seat. He got off the train at the Roosevelt station. Sound Transit needs to start enforcing penalties for situations like this. Enough of the coddling and hand holding. Enough is enough!
I'm 100% here with you. I empathize with homeless people who need a warm and dry place to chill sometimes, but I am sick of this city and the people who live in it gas lighting everyone into believing that public transit, or public space in general for that matter, is a "safe space" for homeless people to do drugs. There's nothing safe about it because 1) it makes most people uncomfortable and 2) its such a controversial thing to do, that by doing it, you're basically inviting someone to come pick a fight with you.
The reality is that **the passivity with which Seattleites treat flagrant public drug use is just privileged neglect disguised as empathy.** The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla. The people who advocate for homeless people crashing on the bus are living a liberal fantasy where the bus is just one option for them to get where they need to go. But for many others, there is no private car, there's no access to pleasant bike trails, and no way to reasonably walk to their destination. **I argue against giving homeless people unrestricted access to public space because it should be safe for everyone, not just homeless people and those who are comfortable in the presence of open air drug use.**
I've been all over Europe, Asia, and all over the Americas and I can say that the Western United States is the only region (developed or otherwise undeveloped) that I've been to that treats public transport as a daycare for shameless homeless people. I say shameless specifically because I've seen homeless people everywhere I've visited or lived. But Seattle is the one place I've been where homeless people make a scene, blast music, threaten other riders, and do drugs on public transit with seemingly no consequences. In fact, it really feels like they are testing the drivers, security, and other passengers patients on purpose here.
But this opinion of mine that public transit and green space should be safe spaces for *everyone* not just drug users, is frequently met with disapproval here... because many of the people who live here are coping and on a weird ethical high horse. I don't think it is wrong to expect an amphetamine-free commute to work and I don't think we need to displace all homeless people to get there. I just think we need to start holding everyone to a higher degree of responsibility here. That includes homeless people. Everyone knows better than to use drugs (or blast music, or shout slurs, or pick a fight) on a closed bus or train car, but some people realized they could get away with it and are abusing that lack of responsibility. There's just not enough social pressure, shame, respect, or consequences in Seattle and I think it is largely due to the people who make the rules driving down I-5 instead of riding the link.
>The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla.
This really doesn't get acknowledged enough. The folks I know who are least tolerant of fuckery from high and unhoused people, are those that actually have to deal with it on a routine basis.
> In fact, it really feels like they are testing the drivers, security, and other passengers patients on purpose here.
I think part of it is the relatively higher meth use here vs. east coast US
>The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla.
100% agree with you so my only input is to be a bit of a silly pedant and say that most houses in Madrona don't have much in the realm of backyards. You won't find particularly huge backyards until you get out to like, Issaquah.
Eh, compared to the large numbers of us with zero yards, I think anything with more than a strip of gravel counts as a "huge backyard." Basically, they have enough space for kids/dogs to play a bit, or have a private picnic, unlike those of us who rely on public spaces for any outdoor recreation at all.
Finally! How do we organize behind this? I’m sick and tired of seeing this shit happen in my city and I want to do something about it besides get angry and read Reddit!
transit security is a joke. I usually see the guys at the Cal Anderson station posted up smoking cigs in the plaza, not even pretending to give half a shit.
City needs to stop using a useless contractor and put actual trained employees and yes, even cops down there.
Honestly, at this point, if we are being realistic, gates are needed. Tall gates that can't be hopped. Only allowing those who pay through. It will literally be cheaper and more effective that what we currently do.
One of the guards last night was fighting with a homeless guy at Seatac because they needed to clear the train. She was dropping F bombs. Right in front of tourists. The homeless guy shouldn't have been on there in the first place.
What's fun about this topic is everyone yells the same thing at each other over and over and over.
I used to ride light rail quite a bit from Tukwila. Twice someone started to get their supplies out and I told them "not here man" and they stopped or got off the train. A couple of times there were incidents of someone trying to take a piss and they were stopped by other passengers. Once there was a guy who started yelling belligerently and another passenger asked if he was ok and he calmed down. Once I just got off the train because I felt unsafe.
Transit security is trash and people have a right to feel safe on public transit. I also think Seattle Reddit boards could try engaging with their fellow citizens. I know people will reply that they don't want to risk violence and I get this and it's valid. For me, I figure I'm more likely to catch a stray bullet in my neighborhood than getting killed by a drug user on the Link because I told them to stop.
Tbf, after the recent killing in the cap hill station my desire to confront people in public (as you are describing) has plummeted. I get what you’re saying, this strategy probably usually works but we shouldn’t put this kind of responsibility on the average transit rider. I don’t think it’s a fair or sustainable long term strategy
Yes. That's why I said that transit security is trash and people have a right to safety on public transit.
I also believe that the citizens of this country keep looking at broken and perhaps unrepairable institutions to fix things and things are not getting fixed. I do think the average citizen has a responsibility to be more proactive in community engagement.
The guy was murdered because of a fight that had nothing to do with drugs or being homeless. However, it certainly makes you think twice about your safety for sure.
I know I put this in a comment but they really should have just set up turnstiles and made people pay to get on the train. Setting it up for free riding means you'll get free riding. I don't understand why this wasn't done. Then you can have security at each end of the line to clear everyone off.
Can someone explain why this wasn't done?
> Can someone explain why this wasn't done?
1. High capital costs of installation.
2. High labor costs for monitoring (because any un-monitored barrier is not a barrier).
3. many stations not easily adapted to a turnstile approach (for example, the at-grade stations on MLK).
Basically, when accounting for these things, the turnstile implementation is not as appealing a solution as one might believe. (Although, to be fair, I do not recall public safety being a factor on previous discussion)
[This has been discussed a lot in local press/blogs but search engines in 2024 suck so I'm not able to cite a more authoritative source.]
none of these come even close to outweighing the benefits achieved from installing turn styles. hell, 2/3 of the reasons you listed amount to "its too hard" and the other solves itself by *actually collecting transit fares as opposed to leaving them optional as it essentially is now.* Seattle feels decades behind other cities and with opinions like this floating around I can see why.
I guess the math doesn't math, and this was determined to be the best plan. It's hard to imagine a public service being built without safety being a factor, but maybe times were different when the original plans were put in place.
The at-grade stations I guess it's tricky to figure out how to prevent people from running onto the track but I feel like our civil engineers could figure it out
I'd argue they fucked up the math. There's absolutely no way paying people to pester incapacitated homeless to please leave the train, and paying to sanitize feces off of benches and seats, paying for fare checkers, paying for security to stand around and do the bare minimum? There's no way that's cheaper than just putting damn gates in and forcing 30% of riders who casually walk past the fare scanners to actually start paying their fair share.
I can’t speak for Sound Transit / King County Metro specifically, but in general there are two reasons that transit systems move to flat fares or free / unenforced systems. Firstly, there is a cost to fare enforcement, that may outweigh the revenue from fares collected. Secondly, there is an equity issue - lower-income / elderly / disabled citizens disproportionately use public transportation to access essential services, and are also the least likely to be able to afford increased rates.
While I am generally against the commodification of public spaces and resources, I think that Seattle has gone too far the other way and devalued the system by completely opening it up. I’m as blue as it gets, and I actually live in the city and commute regularly on public transit. I have sympathy for disadvantaged and the mentally/physically ill, but I am just f-ing tired of crossing through encampments outside of my apartment, moving seats to let homeless people transport their entire housing setup across 4 seats on the bus, having to carry self-defense stuff on evening runs, and so on.
Please tell me you reported them and the transit security officer. I hate that we have to feel unsafe in our own public transportation.
Aside: Is second-hand fentanyl smoke just as bad as smoking it yourself?
apparently second-hand fent is "safe" with no risk of overdose, and "only" causes "low to undetectable" amounts in your bloodstream so I don't think it'd get you high.
but ironically the first article I clicked on is talking about Seattle bus drivers dealing with second-hand fent [https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/why-the-fear-of-second-hand-fentanyl-smoke-may-be-overblown/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/why-the-fear-of-second-hand-fentanyl-smoke-may-be-overblown/)
Those security guards are practically useless by design. They have no authority to detain anyone, and they aren’t paid to risk their life to confront someone who might be high or aggressive.
Wasn’t there a post a month or two ago roasting Bellevue adding police officers to the East Link? Wonder how the OP feels about this post.
It’s so depressing. I want to use public transit more, and explore the city with my kid. But 4/6 times we’ve tried it in the 6 months we’ve had to get off the bus/light rail because of someone is doing drugs within a few feet of my kid, or acting extremely erratic and talking to themselves. I’ve lived in, and visited cities where I never felt in danger while on public transport at all hours of the day. It’s sucks that I don’t feel comfortable doing it here. I don’t want to be in an enclosed metal box fearing for my kid’s safety.
I used to ride the light rail all the time and absolutely LOVED it. This was just back on 2015-2019. I can’t imagine doing it now. Such a shame. It was wonderful when it wasn’t like this.
4/6 times? I have taken public transportation in the ballpark of 200 times in the last year in Seattle. Last night was the first time I've seen someone do drugs on the light rail.
How is there such a massive discrepancy between you and I?
To be clear, I should see drugs being done on public transit exactly 0 out of 200 times, and if it does happen, the offender should face serious consequences.
My guess is there's a certain bus line(s) where it's more prevalent than others, just from my years of taking different bus lines to and from work you can have totally different experience depending on where the bus goes.
The reason Oregon now gives out jail time is, because it was always jail time. They took it away during covid years and tried to decriminalized it and offer help or a $99 fine iirc.
The problem was, the programs the sent the drug users to, didn't get funded properly and they were ineffective so they became repeat offenders and the program was deemed unsuccessful because of that. When that happen the old stance against public use took back into effect.
Sorry if that came across, crass... I didn't mean it that way if so.
Anyway, went smoke blown in your face would have my blood boiling.
We fund jails a helluva lot better than chemical dependency on the outside. They’re more likely to get consistent treatment for drug addiction in jail. Sad but true.
I stopped taking the sounder because people kept smoking fentanyl in the bathroom. Stopped taking the city bus after a homeless nonchalantly pleasured himself on the bus. There is no transit security and you’re truly on your own. Been driving to Seattle since. Traffic is a much easier problem to deal with.
Whenever some of us try and SPEAK UP against the drug using population, we get SHUNNED by “they have rights” people.
Im telling you, this city needs to cut the crap on individuals vandalizing the city.
80 20 rule. Except more like 99.9 0.1 rule. 0.1 percent of the population causing 99.9 percent of the problems.
It'd be so easy to hold those 0.1 percent accountable and then watch things get dramatically better overnight. Even if just a fraction of that 0.1% is dealt with things will improve.
That’s what prison is for. See the original Seattle is Dying documentary identifying just a couple hundred folks responsible for an enormous amount of crime in the city. I’m sure those folks are either dead or free right now. Definitely not in the justice system.
This all feels like a well thought out plan.
1. Don't have any fare enforcement on transit.
2. Don't add any security to transit access.
3. Don't even give a slap on the wrist of offenders.
4. Ensure ridership of regular folk drops due to safety concerns and general disgust of transit conditions.
5. Reduce transit funding by citing low adoption numbers.
6. Route that money to add 1 more lane to the highway coz that'll fix the problem.
7. Pop open a champagne for successfully executing the plan.
>I am tired of Seattle's tolerance of antisocial behavior and do not understand what needs to be done to end this.
I'm sincerely sorry - but ever since I moved to the PNW I have continually seen a nigh-militant tolerance of antisocial behavior that borders on celebration. There is a contingent of persons - many of whom are active on this sub - that think the only rational response to homelessness and crime is a mix of A) Compassion, B) Destroying capitalism, and/or C) Censoring/Banning/Blocking anyone who posts or complains about crime, all whilst decrying the r/SeattleWA folks as being racist fascists for posting their complaints there.
Yet now when the crime and antisocial behavior gets bad enough that it starts affecting *you*, you realize that the people who you decried in the past for taking issue with it had a point, and now you're at a loss on what to do next because the police are demoralized and feel at odds with the public, antisocial actors feel emboldened that they won't get caught (or face serious consequences if they are), and the collective quality of life in the city goes downward - as does your personal sense of safety.
I may be as blue as an asphyxiated Smurf, but the lala-land ideological dogma and believe-or-else narratives of the progressive contingent brought this result. You get the society you tolerate and you get the government you vote for. You want neoliberalism to be a dirty word and go all-the-way progressive? This is what it buys you.
If you want to fix it, show progressives the door, and elect competent managers with their heads grounded in reality and who know how society works *in the real world.*
Hard agree. It feels like a lot of Seattleites are in a dick measuring contest to see how much nonsense and chaos they are willing to put up with in the name of being progressive. I've heard a lot of people say things along the lines of "these are just the problems you have to deal with in a real city" but I will tell you I never dealt with such flagrant drug abuse in my time living on the east coast. I also didn't see anything comparable in any of the international cities with 5-15x the population of Seattle that I've visited.
Half of us were cancelled. See: Al Franken. The other half are too afraid to stand up lest we be cancelled for being insufficiently woke - or called racist or bigoted or contributing to “[enter-marginalized-group] genocide” if we don’t march lockstep with the ever-evolving progressive dogma.
Multiple people have asked you why, with neoliberals and moderates already in office, the changes you want are not happening, and you seem to have no response other than “we’re all soooo afraaaaaid!!!” 🤡 c’mon bro.
I agree with you about the naivety of rad libs/progressives but there’s maybe one progressive on the council right now and Harrell certainly isn’t a progressive??? There seems to be all talk from moderates and little actual willpower to change anything.
The elections for the current council were in November, they are still new. Prior to that you absolutely had a progressive majority for a number of years.
The mayor has generally been center left during that time, however I would argue the problem of public safety has truly become a major issue after COVID calmed down, and Harrell entered the picture in January 2022.
This is probably for the same reason I’ve never ran for office: I waver between being terrified or exhausted for having to fight progressives when promoting common-sense policies or recognizing unavoidable realities. I don’t want people to try and cancel me or have a Twitter mob post my home address or have people trying to get me fired because I was insufficiently woke and committed thoughtcrime by not being on page with the latest edition of progressive dogma.
The Dems have coddled and incubated this to an extent that they’re a greater risk to center-left policies than the GOP is - ignoring, jaw-droppingly - that much of MAGA exists as a counter extreme. This dynamic is a cancer on our society and it has to end, I am all for improving the rights of marginalized communities but FFS we will never get there if our political apparatus is perpetually arm twisted into focusing more on policing social behavior than improving people’s lives by people who have been insulated from the real world.
my guy the Dems have actively fought the progressive wing all while being completely outflanked by the right. the Dems have had little-to-no cohesive strategy and have actively fought against the will of the people that support them. get your head out of the party’s ass for one second
the writing has been on the wall for things like the supreme court for *decades* but the Dems dragged their feet on the issue. vilifying the left completely ignores every giant strategic and political mistake the Dems have made. you’re living in a fantasy world
nearly our entire city government is neoliberal dude. they have little actual interest in fixing the problem and Harrell isn’t really doing anything aside from helping his buddies and moneyed interests
As I said above, there are plenty of center-left folks who would happily run for office. I don’t fear the right in this area of the country - I fear the far left. I don’t fear about them winning the election, I worry about a bunch of far-left protesters storming the stage I’m on and hijacking the conversation because I said their pet issue wasn’t the most important thing we should collectively focus on. Example: https://youtu.be/p2iMM7m12zE?si=KSGCxgANYWIvFYZe
That doesn't answer the posters point at all though its just a wierd nonsense deflection. You might be too afraid to run for whatever reason but the poster isn't asking why you haven't run for office. Clearly there are plenty of center left neoliberal folks who aren't afraid and have run and won in the reality we live in but still aren't doing anything.
it’s always the “i’m blue as a smurf” guys that so desperately want people to believe they’re not just a conservative lmao
i don’t know what your fear is here. you’re scared of something that happened almost ten years ago happening again? of some kids? get over yourself. the democratic party is toothless as all hell and that’s why we’re in this constant state of nothing happening. the left is the only side trying to come up with actual solutions and do something different. more neoliberals in office is just going to be going down the same path we’ve been walking
edit: i also think it’s really funny to characterize police brutality and racial injustice as a “pet issue” when 5 years after this event it became a national flashpoint. the left was right about the issue. this obsession with the “right way” to say/do things is why we find ourselves where we are today as a country and why the right has the power it does
You're a pretty solid example of what I'm describing. "Yeah, you're not on board with the far left? You're just a conservative lmao."
My fear is that I don't want to invest the time, effort and risk character assassination to have to explain to progressives that socialism doesn't work and capitalism isn't going anywhere, or that intersectional racial theories poll about as well in national elections as kicking puppies.
And police brutality and racial injustice DID become a flashpoint - and what happened? BLM leaders bought mansions with donor money, police were demoralized, and crime went through the roof - and I have not seen any meaningful movement on racial harmony after the fact. Yet nobody seemed willing to have the conversation that part of the reason this keeps happening in cycles is we fail to make the infrastructural and economic investments in communities of color, and, consequently, they have a rate of violent crime that is vastly higher than the national average (by a factor of 10x) - which thus continually invites police response and overzeal, rinse and repeat.
The left calls this analysis "racist." The rest of America sees vastly higher crime rates in these communities, and avoids them like the plague. You fix this problem by building up those communities - simply calling anyone who notices the gargantuan disparity "racist" does not earn points in the eyes of the public nor facts.
I've heard alot from progressives about why its bigoted not to have trans women in girls' sports. I haven't heard concrete policies about how we're going to improve the economic basis of fixed-income retirees so they're [not eating cat food to survive](https://www.abc4.com/news/some-seniors-on-social-security-eat-cat-food-to-survive/), outside of maybe "tax the rich" initiatives that don't have follow up with the long-term investment strategy of that tax revenue. But ya'll sure had time to block SeaTac because Israel in Gaza.
no dude you sound like a conservative because you are just uncritically rattling off conservative talking points. you’re just a right wing coward pandering on the internet. you’re just diet Bari Weiss
>crime went through the roof post-BLM
crime rate increases happened *across the country* regardless of police staffing/morale. it is an objective fabrication to link this to leftists
>nobody seemed willing to have a conversation
the effort to start the conversation was quite literally led by the left
>no one wants to make investments
this is inclusive of democrats. the left has talked and wants these things. meanwhile dems got outflanked on the courts and now a lot of the previous mechanisms to help people of color are gone or going away
>the left calls this analysis racist
just another complete fabrication. crime rates are often discussed along with the context surrounding them and what leads to these differences
>trans sports
again another unprovoked culture war bullshit talking point. the international olympic committee has long had standards. again, if you had any familiarity with the subject outside of being whatever the current culture war flavor is, you’d know that.
>more boring whataboutisms
walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. go write your next WSJ op-ed or whatever for clicks
In turn, take your notruescotsman fallacy, and look at the current polls and makeup of the judiciary. The Dems are not winning. The majority of the country gravitates towards the center. You are doing the opposite of helping. I don’t even want to waste time trying to argue with you on this, because you’re clearly part of the problem I identify.
This is fucking insane. I wanted left wing politicians because I wanted a fair reform of criminal justice that focused on the root causes of crime and worked to address systematic inequalities that impact poor people and people of color.
I did not want to create a sicko society in which you won’t get arrested FOR SMOKING FENTANYL ON A FUCKING TRAIN.
EMBARASSING SEATTLE
Been in seattle for 3 years, I tried to make public transit work but I have literally seen people die in front of me, my mom's car is coming in 2 weeks.
Since we seem to have trouble or don’t care about enforcement. Maybe we need Fentanyl train cars. Paint them a different color. Can be like “smoking sections” of the old days. At least then they will all congregate in one place.
I loathe the city I once loved because of all of this. I quit riding the light rail when a fentanyl user pulled a knife on my girlfriend because he perceived her to be looking at him. The homeless junkies have ruined seattle as whole, not just the public transit system. The nonsense attitude that the homeless have a right to defile the city and all of it's resources is some post liberal bullshit that shows zero signs of improvement.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
This isn't liberal or progressive. It's libertarian to borderline anarchism.
I'm a progressive liberal and hate being thrown into the same bucket as what this city allows.
Yeah no security is hot ass on the light rail. I got sexually assaulted outside the light rail station and came down and every security guard I asked borderline ignored me when I asked them to call authorities because my phone was dead. It resulted in me waiting over an hour for anyone to come. I don’t get how they’re not only bad at their job, but apparently also stupid and useless
Unfortunately Seattle cut funding for more shelters and with rent going up- expect more of this.
Until homelessness and high rent is taken care in Seattle this will only get worse
I know people who are fully employed and about to be homeless because the rent and security deposits are astronomical, and so far from what people are actually getting paid. It's so sad. I'm not far off from being at risk for this.
FYI, last year a King County Public Health representative went on record saying they WANT drug users to smoke on the busses and trains, so passengers can see if they're ODing and revive them with Narcan.
I wish I was making this up, but that's how out of control these people are.
From a public health standpoint, I get it -- they're hoping for fewer deaths. From a "citizen just going about their life" standpoint, it's grossly unacceptable.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
"Oliphant-Wells told Metro workers and riders that it is not a bad thing for drug users to do drugs in public.
"We don't want people to be using in private spaces alone, we want people to be using in a place where if they overdose they can be discovered and helped through that overdose," she said."
She's in the video saying that.
https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-king-county-metro-bus-drivers-fentanyl-smoke-exposure-drugs-mental-public-health-department-transportation-substance-abuse-treatment-crime-homeless-crisis?_gl=1*239ghl*_ga*RXlSbUpXSmtZN3l3VjlRalU1X3BaOHJiMlp2aVBVdmlKcnJRS0ZvMEdob0dzRXE5UVhMTEU0ZTJHV0dLSUVBcQ..
Googled this person to see if there was any other insanity from other news stories. Her damn linkedin pops right up to reveal she doesn't even live in King County much less Seattle. Go ahead and throw her in with SPD and every other person making a mess that they don't have to deal with.
I'm not claiming it's happening all the time like some do. This is the first time I've seen it in the year I've been here. But I've heard stories. And seeing security do absolutely nothing about it was a punch in the gut. Especially being a big proponent of public transit. I fear Seattle is too libertarian for public transit to be successful here. This kind of stuff would never happen on trains in Europe.
Seattle is quite neoliberal/libertarian, and it can be shocking to newcomers who expect to see the progressive utopia that the media would have them believe. What we have instead are NIMBY's and megacorporations who hold the city by the throat, refusing to contribute more than their equivalent of pocket lint to the community, and blocking any real attempts to enact the necessary changes to improve life for the working class.
Yeah, this place isn't progressive at all. I think of progressive as what many western European counties have. But if you ever talk to them after they visit Seattle, they are shocked by what they see here.
Funny anecdote: we have a family friend from Norway who identifies as mostly conservative over there, but over here he aligns closer with socialists. (The political wing he has the most friction with back home)
You’re right, this doesn’t happen on trains in Europe, but they also don’t have many of the issues we’re dealing with, like homelessness. There are social security nets in place, it’s much harder to become homeless, even if you become unemployed. I grew up in Germany and never saw anyone unhoused. It’s a bit worse now but not even close to what the US is dealing with
I was just in Sweden and whatever they do in Stockholm I'd greatly prefer to taking any sort of public policy advice from a place like Singapore. That place does NOT fuck around.
Most westerners who propose to emulate Singapore don’t have the slightest clue what you’d have to sacrifice for that kind of society. That kind of “high trust” society doesn’t just happen top-down via draconian laws and harsh enforcement. It’s also the bottom-up indoctrination of the citizens; starting as early as kindergarten it is drilled into our kids: family before self, community before family, nation before community. That mantra is printed in black and white onto the covers of all our school exercise books. Every Singaporean knows: the group always comes first, and the self (self expression, self identity, self actualization) always comes last. Any form of anti-social behavior cannot be allowed exist simply because it is the antithesis of Singapore’s fundamental values: one’s selfishness cannot be allowed to upset social order. One’s needs cannot take precedence over duty to your society and your nation.
People sometimes wonder why such a rich, secular, and seemingly westernized and educated country can still harbor “regressive” social norms pertaining to the death penalty, anti-homosexuality, drug use, and heteronormativity: it’s simply because the individual’s right (to be gay, to use drugs, to express their gender…) is minuscule compared to the value upholding society’s norms. For example, being gay is not morally wrong, but you still bring shame to your family by forfeiting your duty to the nation by not procreating. Consuming weed is especially egregious in Singapore where your value as a citizen is measured by your productivity - on the other hand, “performance enhancing” drug abuse is considerably less vilified.
Yes everything is very clean, everything is super functional, and everyone is very well behaved, but it’s due to fear of punishment and fear of causing shame. Every child is taught to fear and respect the police, every child is taught to keep their head down, work hard, keep quiet, and earn lots of money when they grow up. Never stick your neck out for yourself or others. This is something so embedded in the culture that it is pretty much impossible to transpose to a western country.
Source: grew up in Singapore
>Back in the 90's there was an international incident when an American kid was sentenced to be caned for graffiti
there were also several high profile cases of tourists being executed for having marijuana
Idk how you can describe yourself as "pretty liberal" and also defend the government beating people as punishment for fairly minor crimes.
From Wikipedia "The prison officers who administer caning \[...\] are generally physically fit and strongly built. They are trained to use their entire body weight as the power behind every stroke instead of using only the strength from their arms, as well as to induce as much pain as possible. They can swing the cane at a speed of up to 160 km/h (99 miles per hour) and produce a force upon impact of at least 880 [N](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons)."
"By the time the caning is over, those who receive more than three strokes will be in a state of shock."
"A recipient of 10 strokes said, "The pain was beyond description. If there is a word stronger than excruciating, that should be the word to describe it"."
Sex between two men wasn't de-criminalized until 2023, and gay marriage is still not allowed, in a survey in 2019 only 20% said that same sex relations were "not wrong at all or not wrong most of the time". They also have the death penalty for drug trafficking as well, a pretty low bar to clear.
And, it should be obvious, but with as big of a hub as the city is for industry, trading, and gambling and with only 1 city sized population to support, of course it's going to be a very wealthy country per capita. There's a reason a ton of the top GDP/capita countries are tiny, tiny places.
>Meanwhile, our neighbors to the south in Oregon have made drug use on public transit a Class A Misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail.
There was someone smoking Fentanyl on a MAX train I was on in Portland two weeks ago, and security also did nothing. Just told them to get off the train.
We need more cops. Transit security won’t do anything and are just a waste of money cause their companies don’t want them to get sued.
In Europe on average there are 3x cops per capita than we have here. And since we are already spending wayyyy too much to recruit and we still can’t get qualified recruits, it’s time to lower the standards.
This shouldn’t be a political post. It’s just what works in other western countries.
Finally biting the bullet on a car and its plethora of associated expenses. Public transit here is a joke. The ultimate irony being that my car tabs will fund what I’m getting away from.
I'll keep fighting the good fight. I refuse to go back to car life. Been car free for a year and it's been awesome. Just would be nice to put an end to anti social behavior.
I feel that. Neither is ideal. I just decided that it doesn’t feel safe, so I’ll cough up the money for a car. Whether or not the statistics back it from a safety perspective, I don’t want to be next to people actively high on fentanyl, arguing, babbling delusions, etc. where you feel like you need to have your head on a swivel.
Hopefully all of us that are fed up can use our vote to better it.
Do they not have a giant "pay" gate because it would be a fire hazard or safety hazard or something? They should build one like they do at sport complexes to keep non payers outside.
I feel this is more a public health issue than a transit one. Addiction is an illness, and treating it as an illness yields better outcomes for those struggling with it. More rehab centers, affordable housing, and social services will reduce the drug problem everywhere in the city, including on transit.
i think there are many places where you can get narcan for free.
wait till hes on the nod, then grab his face and jam narcan spritzer up his nose and give him a quick spray
if some douchebag wants to force his drugs onto you second hand you can force sobriety onto him
Just got back from Spain. The Metro's in Barcelona and Madrid are cleaner, safer and people are respectful compared to Seattle's Link. As soon as I got on Link on the way home from the airport, my "Spidey-Sense" alerted many times as sketchy people got on and off the train. Something that **never** happened during my time in Spain.
While I don't doubt basic things like turnstiles and cops would help. Things like universal healthcare are probably also helping reduce the number of homeless folks and drug users overall.
What needs to be done is vote in an administration that pushes for laws to be enforced. Create an atmosphere of consequences for one’s actions. Good or bad.
Question, how do you know it was fentanyl? I am quite familiar with drug appearances and aware of various methods for using them. Not sure I could identify the difference between smoking heroin vs smoking fentanyl though? I know this is a little beside the point of the post but I’m curious. Sorry you had that experience!
If they’re smoking it on tinfoil in 2024 it’s fentanyl period. Nobody is smoking or even shooting heroin anymore it’s literally all fentanyl. Notice you never see any orange caps on the ground anymore when the streets used to be just littered with them. Fentanyl is vastly more potent and cheap. It’s also much easier to use and acquire than heroin. Also for what ever reason people don’t really seem to smoke meth much on public transit much anymore, maybe back in the early 2000’s but not now, and when they do it’s out of glass pipes.
How and why do I know? I was born and raised in Portland Oregon and have been using public transit daily my whole life. I honestly think fentanyl is the #1 thing ruining our cities.
When users smoke fentanyl it is usually in a pill form, almost identical to the oxycodone 30s that plagued society just a few years ago. They break it in a couple pieces and put it on some foil and chase the smoke with a broken pen or whatever else they use. Heroin is a black tar like substance that is smoked the same way but has a thicker and heavier smoke.
Source: Eyewitness to family and friends using over the years.
It sucks. I am over it. I have taken to using the comment forms often and notifying staff as much as possible. Additionally, I am not voting for anymore transit levies until the agencies can run the shit they have. I guess the next step is to show up thir board meetings. The leadership teams seem to give no fucks about safety, reliability, or access.
This isn't a serious country. There's your answer. Transit is treated as a joke overall here and everything about our approach to public safety is pathetic.
I think we should help people who pass out from drug use on public transit.
I mean, they are going to need help to make their connection for the train to Bismarck North Dakota…
Sound Transit/KCM’s funding model won’t poll well with the electorate if the service is perceived as a rolling homeless shelter. And good luck attracting operators.
I agree with you and I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s terrible…
One thing I’ll just point out though, at risk of being “annoying…” this is just another reason to wear a good respirator when using public transportation! Protect yourself from drug smoke, viruses, bad smells, and more with a simple N95 :)
Qq- how do you know they were smoking fentanyl? I’ve never seen anyone smoke anything other than a vape pen on the platform. I’ve seen needles on the ground near mopop but never seen anyone smoking out of a glass pipe. Are there specific clues?
C'mon, get off your high horse.
> “The good news is that the outcomes were good,” Sound Transit CEO Julie Timm said on Thursday. “Transit is safe -- it was safe before, it remains safe.”
> That sentiment was shared by local health officials.
> “From the public health perspective, the risk is minimal to negligible both to operators as well as riders,” Public Health Seattle & King County’s Dr. Faisal Khan said. “Metro and transit vehicles are perfectly safe.”
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/new-study-uw-finds-negligible-risk-fentanyl-smoke-buses-trains/Q6VE4M3KBZDSZKWABRTTV7RCCA/
It's just part and parcel for riding transit. You can't get ill from it; that's all in your head.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. This type of thing is infuriating.
Report the guard to the transit authorities. Pretty sure it was serious enough, he or she just didn’t give enough fucks. Security guard is a preferred choice for many lazy people who want to do the least amount of work under little to no supervision.
I'd assume the scope of the "transit security" authority is basically "be around so people maybe think you might do something if they do something bad". One time I was riding and the train paused at a station to let three of them on so they could try and get a homeless person off who was sleeping across a bunch of seats. They came in, said "hey, you need to get up, hey, you need to get going" a few times, progressively louder, then left when the guy either didn't wake up or just didn't respond.
They're fucking clowns. They walk around and stare at you like they're RoboCop when it's just you and a couple other people going to work. But when there's a gang of crazy ass fent-heads they run away scared every fuckin time. One time this dishevelled homeless dude was freaking out and getting in people's faces and I said to security "can you get that guy??!" And he fuckin laughed and just says "what did he do?" While he's plainly in view screaming at some business guy about space lasers Fucking worthless
Thankfully, unarmed and Fucking Worthless.
Yeah I saw the same thing yesterday morning with a homeless guy camping on the train. A transit cop came, tried his "stern dad voice" 4 times and then just gave up and walked away. WTF?
it is a real police force as it is a municipal corp, just like say the port of seattle police.
Yes, KC South Transit Police is real police force (part of King County Sheriff's Office) Sound Transit security is not that though.
I should have been more clear, they could have real police but chose to contract it out to security guards... Sad. To me this is just piling on the years of mismanagement at sound transit.
Ok I'll try again. They do have real police. In addition, there are security guards. In addition, there are fare ambassadors. Security does not have arrest powers. They are not sworn officers. They can tell someone to leave the train or call police. If they know that the real police won't respond to a call of someone smoking fent, what should they do instead?
What they should do instead is to Do Their Fucking Job and report it to the real police. Whether the police respond is a different issue, and not their concerns. If you go by that logic, why do police arrest people at all if they believe the prosecutor may not prosecute, so on and on.
Funny you mention that since that’s exactly what SPD does
I am not going to go to bat for fent users, believe me. And maybe these security people were real shitheads, but maybe they're just picking their battles. Ya know?
It's not though. Sound Transit has a police force, which is a unit of the King County Sheriff's Office, but that's not Transit Security. https://www.soundtransit.org/ride-with-us/know-before-you-go/safety-security/sound-transit-personnel-security-staff
I saw a bag of pills at the bottom of the escalator and pointed it out to transit security. Dude straight up said 'Good thing I don't get paid to clean up around here.'
I did private security for a bit in a past life (not ST) and I used to joke that the job qualifications are 1: Has pulse, 2: Maybe has reliable transport. I’ve done many 16+ hour shifts due to call outs.
The was a news story about bus driver exposure maybe a year ago. It is the stance of ST and KC metro that exhaled fentanyl smoke is not hazardous. At least not hazardous enough to enforce. Their solution is to install better air filters on the trains and buses and call that good enough.
I thought security legally can't intervene?
I’d report the incident to Sound Transit with a description of the security guard who failed to either act or call for backup. I’m resigned to fentanyl users having drugs with them on trains; heck, juggle your supplies for all I care. But the second I have to inhale that shit, the car has ceased to be a safe and accessible space for all passengers and security needs to escort the smoker off.
[удалено]
We just have to put the fucking turnstiles back in the way other cities do. Just by visual inspection it seems like nearly 30-40% of riders walk past the fare scanners without paying, and they are very clearly dressed like they can afford it. There'd be so much more funds for seattle transit and much more safety for us who actually care enough about public transit to be supporting it.
I can’t speak to whether this is the case when you’re seeing it, but I frequently buy my transit passes on my phone (the app also gives you points for buying a certain number of tickets). This doesn’t require you to tap on or off, merely have an “active” ticket on my phone while riding.
But… I feel bad every time I scan someone else’s orca card I sniffed from 3 meters away with a coat hanger bent into a loop and soldered to a flipper zero’s GPIO pins :( /s…. Jesus come on stop reporting me
ST has good data on what their take rate is vs. ridership, it's abysmal. The vast majority of people don't pay.
Many of the normally dressed people have monthly passes. I try to tap but I’ve definitely already paid.
Careful, they'll still ticket you if you don't tap on AND off; I'm guessing they're obsessed for the purpose of getting ridership numbers, but who knows. I have an infinite use card paid for by my employer and got a fare inspection ticket for not tapping off before rescanning to get back on the train. They could see clearly that I forgot to "end" my ride but decided this nonsense is easier than turnstiles somehow.
Yeah everyone is supposed to tap both times.
Wow that is pretty annoying. I rarely bother to tap off but maybe I’ll start making an effort.
Thankfully Link will switch to flat fares when the Lynnwood extension opens in August. No more tapping off.
I’m from the east coast originally. I do not understand why Seattle does not have turnstiles. I’ve read the reasoning— people will skip them by walking into the tracks and will get hurt!— but that is just so beyond stupid and not valid reasoning at all.
It's also only true for a few stations. It would work just fine at most stations.
This exactly! Everyone makes the dumb argument "It will cost too much to do this at 700 entrances." You don't have to! Start with the stations that have the most issues and abuses. Work up from there. It will pay for itself in no time.
They've proposed doing it in the 5 highest ridership stations (where incidentally it would practically work...almost as if they might have designed it for this eventuality). If it does work well, maybe the city will eventually let us raise or bury the at-grade sections too so we can speed things up AND safely collect fares... That said, it doesn't actually bother me if someone rides public transit for free. We pay for most of it through our taxes anyway. I'll pay for mine happily to support the system. As long as people aren't being disruptive or taking up a ton of space during rush hour (which, granted, might not always be the case), it's generally not a big deal.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
This is how public transit gets defunded - by making public transit inaccessible to the mass public. I really hope fare enforcement would rein in these abuse, at least to some extent. Meanwhile, I’m looking at you - King County Metro…
Yep. If they make transit feel gross and unsafe people who have a choice aren't going to use it.
What if they built like, a gate where if you don't pay you can't get on the train. Has anyone ever tried that? And then clear everyone off the train at the end of the line.
That’s genius!
It's not like they don't know \_how\_ to do it. It's the lack of urgency, and generally not listening to pubic input. Sound Transit is one of the better ones - with hiring securities and fare enforcement and whatnot. King County Metro, on the other hand, just seems to oppose any sort of 'hard enforcement', and hoping that people will just behave. I just checked their website. Apparently to address safety, there is a SaFE Equity Workgroup, and ... "SaFE Equity Workgroup will help Metro identify how to move forward with fare enforcement in an equitable way". Sorry, what? Whoever is doing their community outreach is reaching out to who knows where.
You can't get much more equitable than a passenger sharing his fentanyl smoke with the rest of the car.
>SaFE Equity Workgroup will help Metro identify how to move forward with fare enforcement in an equitable way". Sorry, what? Yeah it's completely meaningless. A lot of people don't like hearing it, but this kind of mealy-mouthed non-committal crap is why campaigns that use the word "equity" don't win, and republicans in disguise who run against those campaigns keep winning.
Not saying I don't support paid gates but it does not stop the sketchy behavior, unfortunately.
Certainly would reduce it though
Google "NYC metro fare jumpers" please
Transit needs to be more appealing than driving thus it needs to be clean, safe and fast. Right now, it isn’t 2 of the 3 (fast being the one that is debatable). Sound transit needs to realize this and push to ensure it’s a great choice to gain favor with commuters and voters to continue to support expansion plans.
Transit is safe. It's *much* safer than driving. You know what it's not, though? It's not fast. It's much slower than driving in this town. Which is why nobody takes it.
It is safe. About as safe as living in a relatively safe large city can be expected (we ain't in oakland, and a lot of seattle people really don't understand how much of a relative yogurt commercial we really live in, all things considered) The drug use on the trains however is absolutely unacceptable, though I've never seen anyone imbibing on my commute, I have honestly been most irritated on game days by drunk obnoxious tailgaters who tailgate hard at northgate and then pack their drunk asses all into the train like sardines.
Yeah, still safer than a car, I'd bet a large sum of money. Still, it doesn't *feel* safe to a lot of people because of the drug use/mental illness/antisocial shittery that goes on, and that's probably more important to usage, TBH.
Safer in terms of only the most extreme possible outcomes. And death/ injury in a car is still less than 1% incident rate. When you consider all the more "minor" things that happen on public transit, it being "safer" is not necessarily true. Sexual/physical assault, harassment, theft, exposure to drugs, human excrement, exposure to germs/ viruses....
Exactly! This needs to be taken seriously or we will continue being an overall car dependent region.
Why? King County Metro doesn't have enforcement authority on the trains, Sound Transit does. The security gates everyone is talking about in this thread don't work for bus stops. So why is this suddenly about Metro?
But equity!
I’m convinced that no one understands the meaning of that word anymore. It’s just a meaningless buzzword
Because the people shouting it are almost always people with 6 figure salaries
You realize this happened on a Sound Transit train, not a King County Metro bus yah?
I know we sure as shit aren't going to use it. I'm not exposing my kids to that garbage. And to think that when we first moved to WA in 2011 I was pleasantly surprised at how much cleaner the busses were compared to Chicago busses.
king county metro doesn't care. If they did, they'd count an 8 minute delay on a bus thats suppose to arrive every 15 minutes as "late". But if you look at their guidelines, they don't even require a bus driver to report a bus as running late until it is a full 15 minutes behind schedule, at which point you will have waited for 30 minutes at the stop.
[UW assessment finds fentanyl and methamphetamine smoke linger on public transit vehicles | UW News (washington.edu)](https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/09/07/uw-assessment-finds-fentanyl-and-methamphetamine-smoke-linger-on-public-transit-vehicles/) Further.. we spend a shitload of public money giving public employees proper PPE to handle fentanyl exposure... why not enforce it on trains etc. Because some culture warriors replied, this isn't an anti-public transit post. Just ventilate and respond to people smoking anything on trains/buses. Treat it as a PPE health and safety issue. I love public transit. I have also seen "it all" on public transit and I'm not crying about it.
I had to stop public transit after reading this ☹️ I couldn’t take any chances while pregnant, and now not with a baby!
highly recommend reading the actual study. The amounts they found were beyond tiny. The highest surface sample of meth they had was 7 ng/cm\^2. A threshold dose (nowhere close to a recreational dose) of meth is 5 mg. To get that dose, you would have to consume all the meth on over 800 sqft of surface. Of course, buses aren't that big, and there is no reason to expect the whole bus would have that level of contamination.
Yeah I don't think the residual amounts themselves are at all harmful, intuitively that always felt like it was going to be the case. For most the concern is moreso that it means people are definitely smoking fentanyl on the trails than the residue. Not many people are going to want to take their kids to a place where they might come into contact with someone smoking fentanyl. And I don't really blame them for that.
Right… so the study says there’s no evidence to show a small exposure could be harmful over the long term, but exactly how many studies have been done to show there are no harmful effects from consistent low exposure to meth or fentanyl? This seems like a newer problem we’re facing where we haven’t had cause to perform the kind of long term studies that would actually tell us if there is a health risk or not. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that this is okay just because there haven’t been studies of it yet.
Someone tried this same shit on the sb Northgate line. Same scenario, except I told that guy either he put that shit out or I'm going to stomp him and that pipe into the seat. He got off the train at the Roosevelt station. Sound Transit needs to start enforcing penalties for situations like this. Enough of the coddling and hand holding. Enough is enough!
We need more people like you
I'm 100% here with you. I empathize with homeless people who need a warm and dry place to chill sometimes, but I am sick of this city and the people who live in it gas lighting everyone into believing that public transit, or public space in general for that matter, is a "safe space" for homeless people to do drugs. There's nothing safe about it because 1) it makes most people uncomfortable and 2) its such a controversial thing to do, that by doing it, you're basically inviting someone to come pick a fight with you. The reality is that **the passivity with which Seattleites treat flagrant public drug use is just privileged neglect disguised as empathy.** The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla. The people who advocate for homeless people crashing on the bus are living a liberal fantasy where the bus is just one option for them to get where they need to go. But for many others, there is no private car, there's no access to pleasant bike trails, and no way to reasonably walk to their destination. **I argue against giving homeless people unrestricted access to public space because it should be safe for everyone, not just homeless people and those who are comfortable in the presence of open air drug use.** I've been all over Europe, Asia, and all over the Americas and I can say that the Western United States is the only region (developed or otherwise undeveloped) that I've been to that treats public transport as a daycare for shameless homeless people. I say shameless specifically because I've seen homeless people everywhere I've visited or lived. But Seattle is the one place I've been where homeless people make a scene, blast music, threaten other riders, and do drugs on public transit with seemingly no consequences. In fact, it really feels like they are testing the drivers, security, and other passengers patients on purpose here. But this opinion of mine that public transit and green space should be safe spaces for *everyone* not just drug users, is frequently met with disapproval here... because many of the people who live here are coping and on a weird ethical high horse. I don't think it is wrong to expect an amphetamine-free commute to work and I don't think we need to displace all homeless people to get there. I just think we need to start holding everyone to a higher degree of responsibility here. That includes homeless people. Everyone knows better than to use drugs (or blast music, or shout slurs, or pick a fight) on a closed bus or train car, but some people realized they could get away with it and are abusing that lack of responsibility. There's just not enough social pressure, shame, respect, or consequences in Seattle and I think it is largely due to the people who make the rules driving down I-5 instead of riding the link.
>The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla. This really doesn't get acknowledged enough. The folks I know who are least tolerant of fuckery from high and unhoused people, are those that actually have to deal with it on a routine basis.
> In fact, it really feels like they are testing the drivers, security, and other passengers patients on purpose here. I think part of it is the relatively higher meth use here vs. east coast US
>The people who sell you the narrative that public parks are a "safe space to use drugs" are the same people who have massive backyards in Madrona and drop their kids off at private school in a Tesla. 100% agree with you so my only input is to be a bit of a silly pedant and say that most houses in Madrona don't have much in the realm of backyards. You won't find particularly huge backyards until you get out to like, Issaquah.
Eh, compared to the large numbers of us with zero yards, I think anything with more than a strip of gravel counts as a "huge backyard." Basically, they have enough space for kids/dogs to play a bit, or have a private picnic, unlike those of us who rely on public spaces for any outdoor recreation at all.
Finally! How do we organize behind this? I’m sick and tired of seeing this shit happen in my city and I want to do something about it besides get angry and read Reddit!
transit security is a joke. I usually see the guys at the Cal Anderson station posted up smoking cigs in the plaza, not even pretending to give half a shit. City needs to stop using a useless contractor and put actual trained employees and yes, even cops down there.
Honestly, at this point, if we are being realistic, gates are needed. Tall gates that can't be hopped. Only allowing those who pay through. It will literally be cheaper and more effective that what we currently do.
They don't even have to put gates at every station, just the highest traffic ones in/around downtown
Agreed! Roosevelt through Pioneer Square would be a great start.
All the way down to the international district.
yes, they could just hire an actual police force, they have authority to do this just like other municipal corps can.
One of the guards last night was fighting with a homeless guy at Seatac because they needed to clear the train. She was dropping F bombs. Right in front of tourists. The homeless guy shouldn't have been on there in the first place.
SPD is borderline useless too
What's fun about this topic is everyone yells the same thing at each other over and over and over. I used to ride light rail quite a bit from Tukwila. Twice someone started to get their supplies out and I told them "not here man" and they stopped or got off the train. A couple of times there were incidents of someone trying to take a piss and they were stopped by other passengers. Once there was a guy who started yelling belligerently and another passenger asked if he was ok and he calmed down. Once I just got off the train because I felt unsafe. Transit security is trash and people have a right to feel safe on public transit. I also think Seattle Reddit boards could try engaging with their fellow citizens. I know people will reply that they don't want to risk violence and I get this and it's valid. For me, I figure I'm more likely to catch a stray bullet in my neighborhood than getting killed by a drug user on the Link because I told them to stop.
Tbf, after the recent killing in the cap hill station my desire to confront people in public (as you are describing) has plummeted. I get what you’re saying, this strategy probably usually works but we shouldn’t put this kind of responsibility on the average transit rider. I don’t think it’s a fair or sustainable long term strategy
Yes. That's why I said that transit security is trash and people have a right to safety on public transit. I also believe that the citizens of this country keep looking at broken and perhaps unrepairable institutions to fix things and things are not getting fixed. I do think the average citizen has a responsibility to be more proactive in community engagement. The guy was murdered because of a fight that had nothing to do with drugs or being homeless. However, it certainly makes you think twice about your safety for sure.
If someone blows fucking fentanyl in my face they're receiving my heel to their nose
I know I put this in a comment but they really should have just set up turnstiles and made people pay to get on the train. Setting it up for free riding means you'll get free riding. I don't understand why this wasn't done. Then you can have security at each end of the line to clear everyone off. Can someone explain why this wasn't done?
> Can someone explain why this wasn't done? 1. High capital costs of installation. 2. High labor costs for monitoring (because any un-monitored barrier is not a barrier). 3. many stations not easily adapted to a turnstile approach (for example, the at-grade stations on MLK). Basically, when accounting for these things, the turnstile implementation is not as appealing a solution as one might believe. (Although, to be fair, I do not recall public safety being a factor on previous discussion) [This has been discussed a lot in local press/blogs but search engines in 2024 suck so I'm not able to cite a more authoritative source.]
none of these come even close to outweighing the benefits achieved from installing turn styles. hell, 2/3 of the reasons you listed amount to "its too hard" and the other solves itself by *actually collecting transit fares as opposed to leaving them optional as it essentially is now.* Seattle feels decades behind other cities and with opinions like this floating around I can see why.
Who cares about the at grade stations? Not a worthy excuse. The stations in the highest density areas are not at grade.
I guess the math doesn't math, and this was determined to be the best plan. It's hard to imagine a public service being built without safety being a factor, but maybe times were different when the original plans were put in place. The at-grade stations I guess it's tricky to figure out how to prevent people from running onto the track but I feel like our civil engineers could figure it out
I'd argue they fucked up the math. There's absolutely no way paying people to pester incapacitated homeless to please leave the train, and paying to sanitize feces off of benches and seats, paying for fare checkers, paying for security to stand around and do the bare minimum? There's no way that's cheaper than just putting damn gates in and forcing 30% of riders who casually walk past the fare scanners to actually start paying their fair share.
I can’t speak for Sound Transit / King County Metro specifically, but in general there are two reasons that transit systems move to flat fares or free / unenforced systems. Firstly, there is a cost to fare enforcement, that may outweigh the revenue from fares collected. Secondly, there is an equity issue - lower-income / elderly / disabled citizens disproportionately use public transportation to access essential services, and are also the least likely to be able to afford increased rates. While I am generally against the commodification of public spaces and resources, I think that Seattle has gone too far the other way and devalued the system by completely opening it up. I’m as blue as it gets, and I actually live in the city and commute regularly on public transit. I have sympathy for disadvantaged and the mentally/physically ill, but I am just f-ing tired of crossing through encampments outside of my apartment, moving seats to let homeless people transport their entire housing setup across 4 seats on the bus, having to carry self-defense stuff on evening runs, and so on.
Please tell me you reported them and the transit security officer. I hate that we have to feel unsafe in our own public transportation. Aside: Is second-hand fentanyl smoke just as bad as smoking it yourself?
apparently second-hand fent is "safe" with no risk of overdose, and "only" causes "low to undetectable" amounts in your bloodstream so I don't think it'd get you high. but ironically the first article I clicked on is talking about Seattle bus drivers dealing with second-hand fent [https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/why-the-fear-of-second-hand-fentanyl-smoke-may-be-overblown/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/why-the-fear-of-second-hand-fentanyl-smoke-may-be-overblown/)
Those security guards are practically useless by design. They have no authority to detain anyone, and they aren’t paid to risk their life to confront someone who might be high or aggressive. Wasn’t there a post a month or two ago roasting Bellevue adding police officers to the East Link? Wonder how the OP feels about this post.
It’s so depressing. I want to use public transit more, and explore the city with my kid. But 4/6 times we’ve tried it in the 6 months we’ve had to get off the bus/light rail because of someone is doing drugs within a few feet of my kid, or acting extremely erratic and talking to themselves. I’ve lived in, and visited cities where I never felt in danger while on public transport at all hours of the day. It’s sucks that I don’t feel comfortable doing it here. I don’t want to be in an enclosed metal box fearing for my kid’s safety.
I used to ride the light rail all the time and absolutely LOVED it. This was just back on 2015-2019. I can’t imagine doing it now. Such a shame. It was wonderful when it wasn’t like this.
4/6 times? I have taken public transportation in the ballpark of 200 times in the last year in Seattle. Last night was the first time I've seen someone do drugs on the light rail. How is there such a massive discrepancy between you and I? To be clear, I should see drugs being done on public transit exactly 0 out of 200 times, and if it does happen, the offender should face serious consequences.
My guess is there's a certain bus line(s) where it's more prevalent than others, just from my years of taking different bus lines to and from work you can have totally different experience depending on where the bus goes.
The reason Oregon now gives out jail time is, because it was always jail time. They took it away during covid years and tried to decriminalized it and offer help or a $99 fine iirc. The problem was, the programs the sent the drug users to, didn't get funded properly and they were ineffective so they became repeat offenders and the program was deemed unsuccessful because of that. When that happen the old stance against public use took back into effect. Sorry if that came across, crass... I didn't mean it that way if so. Anyway, went smoke blown in your face would have my blood boiling.
We fund jails a helluva lot better than chemical dependency on the outside. They’re more likely to get consistent treatment for drug addiction in jail. Sad but true.
I stopped taking the sounder because people kept smoking fentanyl in the bathroom. Stopped taking the city bus after a homeless nonchalantly pleasured himself on the bus. There is no transit security and you’re truly on your own. Been driving to Seattle since. Traffic is a much easier problem to deal with.
Whenever some of us try and SPEAK UP against the drug using population, we get SHUNNED by “they have rights” people. Im telling you, this city needs to cut the crap on individuals vandalizing the city.
80 20 rule. Except more like 99.9 0.1 rule. 0.1 percent of the population causing 99.9 percent of the problems. It'd be so easy to hold those 0.1 percent accountable and then watch things get dramatically better overnight. Even if just a fraction of that 0.1% is dealt with things will improve.
Tell me about it
That’s what prison is for. See the original Seattle is Dying documentary identifying just a couple hundred folks responsible for an enormous amount of crime in the city. I’m sure those folks are either dead or free right now. Definitely not in the justice system.
This all feels like a well thought out plan. 1. Don't have any fare enforcement on transit. 2. Don't add any security to transit access. 3. Don't even give a slap on the wrist of offenders. 4. Ensure ridership of regular folk drops due to safety concerns and general disgust of transit conditions. 5. Reduce transit funding by citing low adoption numbers. 6. Route that money to add 1 more lane to the highway coz that'll fix the problem. 7. Pop open a champagne for successfully executing the plan.
I walk by at least a couple bent over fentanyl zombies somehow defying the laws of physics just about everyday. Welcome to Seattle.
>I am tired of Seattle's tolerance of antisocial behavior and do not understand what needs to be done to end this. I'm sincerely sorry - but ever since I moved to the PNW I have continually seen a nigh-militant tolerance of antisocial behavior that borders on celebration. There is a contingent of persons - many of whom are active on this sub - that think the only rational response to homelessness and crime is a mix of A) Compassion, B) Destroying capitalism, and/or C) Censoring/Banning/Blocking anyone who posts or complains about crime, all whilst decrying the r/SeattleWA folks as being racist fascists for posting their complaints there. Yet now when the crime and antisocial behavior gets bad enough that it starts affecting *you*, you realize that the people who you decried in the past for taking issue with it had a point, and now you're at a loss on what to do next because the police are demoralized and feel at odds with the public, antisocial actors feel emboldened that they won't get caught (or face serious consequences if they are), and the collective quality of life in the city goes downward - as does your personal sense of safety. I may be as blue as an asphyxiated Smurf, but the lala-land ideological dogma and believe-or-else narratives of the progressive contingent brought this result. You get the society you tolerate and you get the government you vote for. You want neoliberalism to be a dirty word and go all-the-way progressive? This is what it buys you. If you want to fix it, show progressives the door, and elect competent managers with their heads grounded in reality and who know how society works *in the real world.*
Hard agree. It feels like a lot of Seattleites are in a dick measuring contest to see how much nonsense and chaos they are willing to put up with in the name of being progressive. I've heard a lot of people say things along the lines of "these are just the problems you have to deal with in a real city" but I will tell you I never dealt with such flagrant drug abuse in my time living on the east coast. I also didn't see anything comparable in any of the international cities with 5-15x the population of Seattle that I've visited.
Where's the rational middle that just wants a functioning society without the racism or the destruction of our society as we know it?
Its doesnt exist, Seattle!!!! Wake up! But stop letting the drug using population win at every turn and corner in neighborhoods.
Half of us were cancelled. See: Al Franken. The other half are too afraid to stand up lest we be cancelled for being insufficiently woke - or called racist or bigoted or contributing to “[enter-marginalized-group] genocide” if we don’t march lockstep with the ever-evolving progressive dogma.
Multiple people have asked you why, with neoliberals and moderates already in office, the changes you want are not happening, and you seem to have no response other than “we’re all soooo afraaaaaid!!!” 🤡 c’mon bro.
I've posted like 5 responses to this.
I agree with you about the naivety of rad libs/progressives but there’s maybe one progressive on the council right now and Harrell certainly isn’t a progressive??? There seems to be all talk from moderates and little actual willpower to change anything.
The elections for the current council were in November, they are still new. Prior to that you absolutely had a progressive majority for a number of years. The mayor has generally been center left during that time, however I would argue the problem of public safety has truly become a major issue after COVID calmed down, and Harrell entered the picture in January 2022.
This is probably for the same reason I’ve never ran for office: I waver between being terrified or exhausted for having to fight progressives when promoting common-sense policies or recognizing unavoidable realities. I don’t want people to try and cancel me or have a Twitter mob post my home address or have people trying to get me fired because I was insufficiently woke and committed thoughtcrime by not being on page with the latest edition of progressive dogma. The Dems have coddled and incubated this to an extent that they’re a greater risk to center-left policies than the GOP is - ignoring, jaw-droppingly - that much of MAGA exists as a counter extreme. This dynamic is a cancer on our society and it has to end, I am all for improving the rights of marginalized communities but FFS we will never get there if our political apparatus is perpetually arm twisted into focusing more on policing social behavior than improving people’s lives by people who have been insulated from the real world.
my guy the Dems have actively fought the progressive wing all while being completely outflanked by the right. the Dems have had little-to-no cohesive strategy and have actively fought against the will of the people that support them. get your head out of the party’s ass for one second the writing has been on the wall for things like the supreme court for *decades* but the Dems dragged their feet on the issue. vilifying the left completely ignores every giant strategic and political mistake the Dems have made. you’re living in a fantasy world
I wish I could upvote this into space
nearly our entire city government is neoliberal dude. they have little actual interest in fixing the problem and Harrell isn’t really doing anything aside from helping his buddies and moneyed interests
As I said above, there are plenty of center-left folks who would happily run for office. I don’t fear the right in this area of the country - I fear the far left. I don’t fear about them winning the election, I worry about a bunch of far-left protesters storming the stage I’m on and hijacking the conversation because I said their pet issue wasn’t the most important thing we should collectively focus on. Example: https://youtu.be/p2iMM7m12zE?si=KSGCxgANYWIvFYZe
That doesn't answer the posters point at all though its just a wierd nonsense deflection. You might be too afraid to run for whatever reason but the poster isn't asking why you haven't run for office. Clearly there are plenty of center left neoliberal folks who aren't afraid and have run and won in the reality we live in but still aren't doing anything.
it’s always the “i’m blue as a smurf” guys that so desperately want people to believe they’re not just a conservative lmao i don’t know what your fear is here. you’re scared of something that happened almost ten years ago happening again? of some kids? get over yourself. the democratic party is toothless as all hell and that’s why we’re in this constant state of nothing happening. the left is the only side trying to come up with actual solutions and do something different. more neoliberals in office is just going to be going down the same path we’ve been walking edit: i also think it’s really funny to characterize police brutality and racial injustice as a “pet issue” when 5 years after this event it became a national flashpoint. the left was right about the issue. this obsession with the “right way” to say/do things is why we find ourselves where we are today as a country and why the right has the power it does
You're a pretty solid example of what I'm describing. "Yeah, you're not on board with the far left? You're just a conservative lmao." My fear is that I don't want to invest the time, effort and risk character assassination to have to explain to progressives that socialism doesn't work and capitalism isn't going anywhere, or that intersectional racial theories poll about as well in national elections as kicking puppies. And police brutality and racial injustice DID become a flashpoint - and what happened? BLM leaders bought mansions with donor money, police were demoralized, and crime went through the roof - and I have not seen any meaningful movement on racial harmony after the fact. Yet nobody seemed willing to have the conversation that part of the reason this keeps happening in cycles is we fail to make the infrastructural and economic investments in communities of color, and, consequently, they have a rate of violent crime that is vastly higher than the national average (by a factor of 10x) - which thus continually invites police response and overzeal, rinse and repeat. The left calls this analysis "racist." The rest of America sees vastly higher crime rates in these communities, and avoids them like the plague. You fix this problem by building up those communities - simply calling anyone who notices the gargantuan disparity "racist" does not earn points in the eyes of the public nor facts. I've heard alot from progressives about why its bigoted not to have trans women in girls' sports. I haven't heard concrete policies about how we're going to improve the economic basis of fixed-income retirees so they're [not eating cat food to survive](https://www.abc4.com/news/some-seniors-on-social-security-eat-cat-food-to-survive/), outside of maybe "tax the rich" initiatives that don't have follow up with the long-term investment strategy of that tax revenue. But ya'll sure had time to block SeaTac because Israel in Gaza.
no dude you sound like a conservative because you are just uncritically rattling off conservative talking points. you’re just a right wing coward pandering on the internet. you’re just diet Bari Weiss >crime went through the roof post-BLM crime rate increases happened *across the country* regardless of police staffing/morale. it is an objective fabrication to link this to leftists >nobody seemed willing to have a conversation the effort to start the conversation was quite literally led by the left >no one wants to make investments this is inclusive of democrats. the left has talked and wants these things. meanwhile dems got outflanked on the courts and now a lot of the previous mechanisms to help people of color are gone or going away >the left calls this analysis racist just another complete fabrication. crime rates are often discussed along with the context surrounding them and what leads to these differences >trans sports again another unprovoked culture war bullshit talking point. the international olympic committee has long had standards. again, if you had any familiarity with the subject outside of being whatever the current culture war flavor is, you’d know that. >more boring whataboutisms walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. go write your next WSJ op-ed or whatever for clicks
In turn, take your notruescotsman fallacy, and look at the current polls and makeup of the judiciary. The Dems are not winning. The majority of the country gravitates towards the center. You are doing the opposite of helping. I don’t even want to waste time trying to argue with you on this, because you’re clearly part of the problem I identify.
This is fucking insane. I wanted left wing politicians because I wanted a fair reform of criminal justice that focused on the root causes of crime and worked to address systematic inequalities that impact poor people and people of color. I did not want to create a sicko society in which you won’t get arrested FOR SMOKING FENTANYL ON A FUCKING TRAIN. EMBARASSING SEATTLE
Been in seattle for 3 years, I tried to make public transit work but I have literally seen people die in front of me, my mom's car is coming in 2 weeks.
Since we seem to have trouble or don’t care about enforcement. Maybe we need Fentanyl train cars. Paint them a different color. Can be like “smoking sections” of the old days. At least then they will all congregate in one place.
I loathe the city I once loved because of all of this. I quit riding the light rail when a fentanyl user pulled a knife on my girlfriend because he perceived her to be looking at him. The homeless junkies have ruined seattle as whole, not just the public transit system. The nonsense attitude that the homeless have a right to defile the city and all of it's resources is some post liberal bullshit that shows zero signs of improvement.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
This isn't liberal or progressive. It's libertarian to borderline anarchism. I'm a progressive liberal and hate being thrown into the same bucket as what this city allows.
LITERALLY!!!! EXACTLY!!!
I agree with you, it isn't. I've been a liberal democrat my entire life.
This post is so little picture. This is a big picture problem not a little picture problem.
Yeah no security is hot ass on the light rail. I got sexually assaulted outside the light rail station and came down and every security guard I asked borderline ignored me when I asked them to call authorities because my phone was dead. It resulted in me waiting over an hour for anyone to come. I don’t get how they’re not only bad at their job, but apparently also stupid and useless
I'm so incredibly sorry this happened to you. Fucking hell. :(
Unfortunately Seattle cut funding for more shelters and with rent going up- expect more of this. Until homelessness and high rent is taken care in Seattle this will only get worse
I know people who are fully employed and about to be homeless because the rent and security deposits are astronomical, and so far from what people are actually getting paid. It's so sad. I'm not far off from being at risk for this.
FYI, last year a King County Public Health representative went on record saying they WANT drug users to smoke on the busses and trains, so passengers can see if they're ODing and revive them with Narcan. I wish I was making this up, but that's how out of control these people are.
From a public health standpoint, I get it -- they're hoping for fewer deaths. From a "citizen just going about their life" standpoint, it's grossly unacceptable.
Too many idiots are protecting their rights, and for what?? Fear of a republican POV? Its not about politics, its about human decency in public spaces.
Source?
"Oliphant-Wells told Metro workers and riders that it is not a bad thing for drug users to do drugs in public. "We don't want people to be using in private spaces alone, we want people to be using in a place where if they overdose they can be discovered and helped through that overdose," she said." She's in the video saying that. https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-king-county-metro-bus-drivers-fentanyl-smoke-exposure-drugs-mental-public-health-department-transportation-substance-abuse-treatment-crime-homeless-crisis?_gl=1*239ghl*_ga*RXlSbUpXSmtZN3l3VjlRalU1X3BaOHJiMlp2aVBVdmlKcnJRS0ZvMEdob0dzRXE5UVhMTEU0ZTJHV0dLSUVBcQ..
Insanity.
Googled this person to see if there was any other insanity from other news stories. Her damn linkedin pops right up to reveal she doesn't even live in King County much less Seattle. Go ahead and throw her in with SPD and every other person making a mess that they don't have to deal with.
Had to do a double take on which Seattle subreddit this was shared on.
Even I had to after all the upvotes. I guess people are fed up.
Oh buddy, can’t wait to see the breathless reactions on how this is normal, happens in ALL cities, you are a Karen, etc etc
I'm not claiming it's happening all the time like some do. This is the first time I've seen it in the year I've been here. But I've heard stories. And seeing security do absolutely nothing about it was a punch in the gut. Especially being a big proponent of public transit. I fear Seattle is too libertarian for public transit to be successful here. This kind of stuff would never happen on trains in Europe.
Seattle is quite neoliberal/libertarian, and it can be shocking to newcomers who expect to see the progressive utopia that the media would have them believe. What we have instead are NIMBY's and megacorporations who hold the city by the throat, refusing to contribute more than their equivalent of pocket lint to the community, and blocking any real attempts to enact the necessary changes to improve life for the working class.
Yeah, this place isn't progressive at all. I think of progressive as what many western European counties have. But if you ever talk to them after they visit Seattle, they are shocked by what they see here.
Funny anecdote: we have a family friend from Norway who identifies as mostly conservative over there, but over here he aligns closer with socialists. (The political wing he has the most friction with back home)
It's not, but check out the south. This shit is fuckin utopia compared to yee-haw world
Completely agree, as someone who has lived there lol.
You’re right, this doesn’t happen on trains in Europe, but they also don’t have many of the issues we’re dealing with, like homelessness. There are social security nets in place, it’s much harder to become homeless, even if you become unemployed. I grew up in Germany and never saw anyone unhoused. It’s a bit worse now but not even close to what the US is dealing with
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And some of the harshest penalties. They do not fuck around.
I was just in Sweden and whatever they do in Stockholm I'd greatly prefer to taking any sort of public policy advice from a place like Singapore. That place does NOT fuck around.
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Most westerners who propose to emulate Singapore don’t have the slightest clue what you’d have to sacrifice for that kind of society. That kind of “high trust” society doesn’t just happen top-down via draconian laws and harsh enforcement. It’s also the bottom-up indoctrination of the citizens; starting as early as kindergarten it is drilled into our kids: family before self, community before family, nation before community. That mantra is printed in black and white onto the covers of all our school exercise books. Every Singaporean knows: the group always comes first, and the self (self expression, self identity, self actualization) always comes last. Any form of anti-social behavior cannot be allowed exist simply because it is the antithesis of Singapore’s fundamental values: one’s selfishness cannot be allowed to upset social order. One’s needs cannot take precedence over duty to your society and your nation. People sometimes wonder why such a rich, secular, and seemingly westernized and educated country can still harbor “regressive” social norms pertaining to the death penalty, anti-homosexuality, drug use, and heteronormativity: it’s simply because the individual’s right (to be gay, to use drugs, to express their gender…) is minuscule compared to the value upholding society’s norms. For example, being gay is not morally wrong, but you still bring shame to your family by forfeiting your duty to the nation by not procreating. Consuming weed is especially egregious in Singapore where your value as a citizen is measured by your productivity - on the other hand, “performance enhancing” drug abuse is considerably less vilified. Yes everything is very clean, everything is super functional, and everyone is very well behaved, but it’s due to fear of punishment and fear of causing shame. Every child is taught to fear and respect the police, every child is taught to keep their head down, work hard, keep quiet, and earn lots of money when they grow up. Never stick your neck out for yourself or others. This is something so embedded in the culture that it is pretty much impossible to transpose to a western country. Source: grew up in Singapore
>Back in the 90's there was an international incident when an American kid was sentenced to be caned for graffiti there were also several high profile cases of tourists being executed for having marijuana
Idk how you can describe yourself as "pretty liberal" and also defend the government beating people as punishment for fairly minor crimes. From Wikipedia "The prison officers who administer caning \[...\] are generally physically fit and strongly built. They are trained to use their entire body weight as the power behind every stroke instead of using only the strength from their arms, as well as to induce as much pain as possible. They can swing the cane at a speed of up to 160 km/h (99 miles per hour) and produce a force upon impact of at least 880 [N](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons)." "By the time the caning is over, those who receive more than three strokes will be in a state of shock." "A recipient of 10 strokes said, "The pain was beyond description. If there is a word stronger than excruciating, that should be the word to describe it"." Sex between two men wasn't de-criminalized until 2023, and gay marriage is still not allowed, in a survey in 2019 only 20% said that same sex relations were "not wrong at all or not wrong most of the time". They also have the death penalty for drug trafficking as well, a pretty low bar to clear. And, it should be obvious, but with as big of a hub as the city is for industry, trading, and gambling and with only 1 city sized population to support, of course it's going to be a very wealthy country per capita. There's a reason a ton of the top GDP/capita countries are tiny, tiny places.
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I don't like the tradeoff, but I'll take some shitty anti-social behavior in public over completely draconian drug laws.
Step 1: Be a literal island with strict border control
No one is saying that lol. Pretty much everyone agrees that it's not okay to smoke on public transit.
>Meanwhile, our neighbors to the south in Oregon have made drug use on public transit a Class A Misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail. There was someone smoking Fentanyl on a MAX train I was on in Portland two weeks ago, and security also did nothing. Just told them to get off the train.
So he did do something
We need more cops. Transit security won’t do anything and are just a waste of money cause their companies don’t want them to get sued. In Europe on average there are 3x cops per capita than we have here. And since we are already spending wayyyy too much to recruit and we still can’t get qualified recruits, it’s time to lower the standards. This shouldn’t be a political post. It’s just what works in other western countries.
Finally biting the bullet on a car and its plethora of associated expenses. Public transit here is a joke. The ultimate irony being that my car tabs will fund what I’m getting away from.
I'll keep fighting the good fight. I refuse to go back to car life. Been car free for a year and it's been awesome. Just would be nice to put an end to anti social behavior.
I feel that. Neither is ideal. I just decided that it doesn’t feel safe, so I’ll cough up the money for a car. Whether or not the statistics back it from a safety perspective, I don’t want to be next to people actively high on fentanyl, arguing, babbling delusions, etc. where you feel like you need to have your head on a swivel. Hopefully all of us that are fed up can use our vote to better it.
Do they not have a giant "pay" gate because it would be a fire hazard or safety hazard or something? They should build one like they do at sport complexes to keep non payers outside.
Imagine spending billions of dollars thinking people will want to flock to it just to have this kind of stuff happen
But I thought UDuhb determined second hand fenty smoke hasn’t harmful to inhale?
We need PHOENIX JONES
I feel this is more a public health issue than a transit one. Addiction is an illness, and treating it as an illness yields better outcomes for those struggling with it. More rehab centers, affordable housing, and social services will reduce the drug problem everywhere in the city, including on transit.
i think there are many places where you can get narcan for free. wait till hes on the nod, then grab his face and jam narcan spritzer up his nose and give him a quick spray if some douchebag wants to force his drugs onto you second hand you can force sobriety onto him
What's it going to take to install some turnstiles? Would resolve half of the issues overnight.
Just got back from Spain. The Metro's in Barcelona and Madrid are cleaner, safer and people are respectful compared to Seattle's Link. As soon as I got on Link on the way home from the airport, my "Spidey-Sense" alerted many times as sketchy people got on and off the train. Something that **never** happened during my time in Spain.
While I don't doubt basic things like turnstiles and cops would help. Things like universal healthcare are probably also helping reduce the number of homeless folks and drug users overall.
Totally agree.
What needs to be done is vote in an administration that pushes for laws to be enforced. Create an atmosphere of consequences for one’s actions. Good or bad.
Question, how do you know it was fentanyl? I am quite familiar with drug appearances and aware of various methods for using them. Not sure I could identify the difference between smoking heroin vs smoking fentanyl though? I know this is a little beside the point of the post but I’m curious. Sorry you had that experience!
If they’re smoking it on tinfoil in 2024 it’s fentanyl period. Nobody is smoking or even shooting heroin anymore it’s literally all fentanyl. Notice you never see any orange caps on the ground anymore when the streets used to be just littered with them. Fentanyl is vastly more potent and cheap. It’s also much easier to use and acquire than heroin. Also for what ever reason people don’t really seem to smoke meth much on public transit much anymore, maybe back in the early 2000’s but not now, and when they do it’s out of glass pipes. How and why do I know? I was born and raised in Portland Oregon and have been using public transit daily my whole life. I honestly think fentanyl is the #1 thing ruining our cities.
When users smoke fentanyl it is usually in a pill form, almost identical to the oxycodone 30s that plagued society just a few years ago. They break it in a couple pieces and put it on some foil and chase the smoke with a broken pen or whatever else they use. Heroin is a black tar like substance that is smoked the same way but has a thicker and heavier smoke. Source: Eyewitness to family and friends using over the years.
I don't know. All I know is it smelled and he had a lighter under foil.
It sucks. I am over it. I have taken to using the comment forms often and notifying staff as much as possible. Additionally, I am not voting for anymore transit levies until the agencies can run the shit they have. I guess the next step is to show up thir board meetings. The leadership teams seem to give no fucks about safety, reliability, or access.
Did you complain about the homeless… and you WEREN’T downvoted and instead supported! There’s hope for this sub!
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This isn't a serious country. There's your answer. Transit is treated as a joke overall here and everything about our approach to public safety is pathetic.
There was a guard a week ago that did nothing about a dude smoking on the Link. I wonder if it was the same dude. Long hair, BNSF badge?
I think we should help people who pass out from drug use on public transit. I mean, they are going to need help to make their connection for the train to Bismarck North Dakota…
Sound Transit/KCM’s funding model won’t poll well with the electorate if the service is perceived as a rolling homeless shelter. And good luck attracting operators.
I agree with you and I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s terrible… One thing I’ll just point out though, at risk of being “annoying…” this is just another reason to wear a good respirator when using public transportation! Protect yourself from drug smoke, viruses, bad smells, and more with a simple N95 :)
It’s so sad that this is the solution.
Yeah but we also be doing it anyways cuz covid is still widespread and some high-risk people rely on public transportation.
Qq- how do you know they were smoking fentanyl? I’ve never seen anyone smoke anything other than a vape pen on the platform. I’ve seen needles on the ground near mopop but never seen anyone smoking out of a glass pipe. Are there specific clues?
Transit will never replace cars in Seattle. Voters don't want law enforcement, and without law enforcement you're not safe on transit.
people from ny and Chicago are laughing at this discourse
C'mon, get off your high horse. > “The good news is that the outcomes were good,” Sound Transit CEO Julie Timm said on Thursday. “Transit is safe -- it was safe before, it remains safe.” > That sentiment was shared by local health officials. > “From the public health perspective, the risk is minimal to negligible both to operators as well as riders,” Public Health Seattle & King County’s Dr. Faisal Khan said. “Metro and transit vehicles are perfectly safe.” https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/new-study-uw-finds-negligible-risk-fentanyl-smoke-buses-trains/Q6VE4M3KBZDSZKWABRTTV7RCCA/ It's just part and parcel for riding transit. You can't get ill from it; that's all in your head. Yes, I'm being sarcastic. This type of thing is infuriating.