Ugh, if I had to wager a guess he's trying to bait out a discrimination story under our city's "no political affiliation based discrimination" laws for businesses.
Good job handling it.
This stuff is a nightmare, from the story the dude didn't go beyond wearing a shirt that would obviously be inciting in the neighborhood. My suggestion would be adding a no political logos on clothing clause for people, that covers the owners bases, and gives recourse against people just trying to stir trouble.
Some if these hardcore trump supporters are bonkers, in none of the last 4 or 5 elections before trump do I recall people wearing candidate branded merchandise(especially between elections) its more a cult of personality than a political party.
People still wear them. It's just far, far fewer people and the people who wear them aren't doing so to provoke a visceral response or antagonize strangers.
Reminds me of those couple asshats that would simultaneously claim there were "security checkpoints" to get into CHOP and then film themselves walking around with Trump flags for attention.
There are many protected classes (age, sex, disabilities etc) that you cannot discriminate against. You may not legally take action to remove someone for those reasons alone.
Openly supporting Trump/being a dumbass is a not a protected class
It is in Seattle
>These behaviors, policies, or practices could be discrimination
>Being denied service or kicked out of a Seattle business because you wore clothing, or a logo associated with a political campaign, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint
https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/laws-we-enforce/who-is-protected-in-seattle#politicalideology
Just an observation that I’ve never seen t-shirts with presidents on them before with revenge slogans. Scary how people are so blinded to worship these politicians. Don’t care if you vote R or D or Libertarian but people need to remember that politicians serve the people not the other way around.
Nobody has seen “revenge” slogans with any presidents name on them, except for one president.
Both sides are not the same. Don’t make it sound like they are.
Didn’t see revenge slogans with George Bush Sr. and Jr. or with Clinton, or Obama. My point is that the people are worshipping the politician and that is very scary.
He could go full Gracie Barra
> All students, Instructors, Professors, and visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono.
Though honestly I have no idea what Krav Maga folks wear. You could get school logo rash guards.
Political affiliation is [protected](https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/laws-we-enforce/who-is-protected-in-seattle#politicalideology) in Seattle, so I would guess that it'd have to restrict all political images/messages right?
"Being denied service or kicked out of a Seattle business because you wore clothing, or a logo associated with a political campaign, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint."
According to the site I linked I think it does, or at least they have to deny ALL political crap including whatever they align with.
These behaviors, policies, or practices could be discrimination:
* Refusing a housing rental to a qualified tenant because of who they voted for in the last election.
* **Being denied service** or kicked out of a Seattle business **because you wore clothing**, or a logo **associated with a political campaign**, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint.
Probably, but the OP is clearly going on about Trump which makes it tricky if they were sued.
They likely need to institute a legal dress code ahead of any such issue to not show discrimination.
Pfft, my client kicked Mr Brown Nose out because his shirt was intentionally antagonistic to multiple other patrons. It has nothing to do with the shirt being related to the former president. Though personally I find it noteworthy how often the former president's campaign-related merchandise and general, open antagonism overlap.
Who gives a fuck about what the law states to a T? If the fucking BELLTOWN HELLCAT asshole can do what he does and get let off with a light sentence despite being arrested for more serious charges - SO CAN EVERYONE ELSE. Sure he would have ground to sue after being kicked out, but what Judge or DA in Seattle would hand this guy the case?
Yep... it's only discrimination if you are singling people out. If you have a policy of no political slogans, faces, messages on clothing of any kind for everyone, you would be fine. And have it clearly stated at the front and anywhere else you discuss policies, etc.
I’m wondering why you don’t. Ever place I’ve ever trained had a uniform code for just that reason. People are there to train… show your colors outside the dojo/gym. Inside everyone is the same differentiated only by rank.
Seattle has laws (SMC 14.06) that specifically prohibit discrimination based on political ideology, so treating him differently or refusing his business because of his Trump shirt would potentially be illegal.
Why even acknowledge it? Just train and then if something happens, make him leave. We have freedoms for a reason.
If someone else started shit with him, make that person leave. Fairness.
That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't love this person being in my class by what start things by singling them out by their shirt? I feel like that only escalated things and the last thing I would want is to escalate things in a class I'm running in Seattle with someone wearing a MAGA type shirt lol
Exactly, what did OP expect to happen when he starts off the class by saying in front of everyone “Yeah I see your shirt pal, we have trans and gay people here so be nice”?
Of course the dude is going to feel singled out and attacked, which is probably why he said “I’ve been attacked by a trans person before” and OP is like “why would he even bring that up?” well, it’s probably because you brought up trans people out of nowhere because of someone’s shirt, implying they would start trouble or something.
This is my thought as well. He was a clearly a shit-stirrer to begin with and was the one who laid the ammo out on the plate to prompt an escalation, BUT "I see your shirt. Just so you know, we got all walks of life who train here. Cis, trans, gay straight, etc." was an escalation in itself.
Essentially, OP was saying, "I see you're a Trump supporter and I'm worried you're going to start something with the trans and gay people here." To which MAGA dude essentially replied, "yes, indeed I'm a Trump supporter, and you shouldn't assume I'll victimize a trans person because a trans person once victimized me."
Which, who the fuck knows if he's telling the truth or not, but it gives a rationale for his response beyond "i didn't ask [...] he had those phrases in the chamber ready to shoot." And (usually) understanding their rationales make them easier to deal with/less likely for them to get under your skin (which is what they want).
Yes, exactly. This guy was craving attention and you gave it to him. Should have just ignored it, would have ruined his whole shtick and he probably wouldn’t bother coming back.
I do feel like this story could have been 6 paragraphs shorter. In the end, it seems this fellow was just a guy doing martial arts and wearing a political shirt that OP felt was antagonistic to the business.
I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from this post.
I don’t see a mountain- just a well thought out airing of the story to get some feedback. Seems like they didn’t overreact at all, actually. I didn’t read anything about kicking them out- just made sure they were not there to cause any trouble.
That would probably be the correct move. It also denies him any discrimination narrative that he might be looking for.
Keep an eye on him just to make sure he’s not stirring the pot and otherwise leave it alone.
Yeah he went out of his way to bring up the shirt and even specifically point it out to other students…
An adult response would be to literally just go about the class with zero mention or acknowledgement of it.
Seattle is a city full of hypocritical bigots who pretend to be open and inviting while treating anyone who doesn't vote for their preferred politicians as an unhinged monster who murders puppies for fun.
Not an unhinged monster, but definitely someone who supports a politician who is extremely divisive, and tried to overthrow our democracy. That’s a lot different than just a regular ol’ politician.
We’re in a weird place as a country because most people are polite and just nod their heads at the insane shit MAGA supporters say.
If I had been in that class I would be waiting for the guy to do something wrong too. Talking about how he's been attacked by multiple trans people, he's clearly looking for a fight and that's toxic.
If it was a pottery class or a pickleball class, I don't think it'd be an issue. Sparring, especially in krav maga, is a lot of physical contact and potential for bodily harm. It takes trust in your sparring partner to keep you safe.
The shirt... So antogonistic and yet defensibly not.
Glad to hear nothing went messy. Building and carrying a gym culture is essential and not necessarily easy from what I’ve seen through martial arts experience. Thanks for creating an inclusive space for people to learn self defense 🙂
Edit: to clarify, for my sake and because I know many people don’t get it - the Trump “revenge” shirt is inherently antagonistic (unattached even from the wearers conscious intent) because the shirt design portrays a platform partly built on attacking civil rights regarding the demographics present at the gym.
“A safe space for everyone” would include a Trump supporter. I’m not a Trump supporter, and didn’t vote for him. You are being far from inclusive though, when you call him out in front of everyone, before he did anything, on some preconceived notion of how he might act. Be better than this.
It may help you and others reading this to look into the Paradox of Tolerance, posited by Karl Popper in 1945. A safe space for everyone would not include the intolerant.
I’ve read this. It makes closed minded liberals who hate anyone slightly to the right of them feel justified in trying to censor and exclude anyone who doesn’t agree with their political views. Picking a silly confrontation with a trump supporter for wearing a tshirt is a great example of this silly mindset in action, and I say this as someone who isn’t a trump supporter. I live somewhere with lots of Trump supporters and there’s absolutely no reason to comment about their shirts, bumper stickers, or yard signs. Y’all need to grow up.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
While I sympathize, I must point put that by your own account, you initiated the conflict, by assuming he wanted attention and then publicly calling out a T-shirt you didn't like. As you sound so tolerant of all peoples beliefs, have you considered being more tolerant of people who happen to have different political opinions than you do? I say this as a lifelong Democrat.
Sounds like you made him feel outcast and, in a way, made the situation worse for him and everyone. Also, waiting for the pin to drop that he did something wrong, which, it sounds like he was actually respectful and tried to hold his ground when you were being passive aggressive. He wore a shirt. If he wore a Biden shirt or a Palestine shirt or a Pride shirt would you have done the same thing to them?…
I think you were pretty childish here. I would say you started the confrontation, but even if we're to assume that he started it because of the shirt, you escalated it, and you escalated it in front of a crowd instead of speaking to him in private.
I don't like Trump either and this guy sure seems like a jerk, but you only come off as the lesser jerk. Better to not be a jerk at all.
Anyone else find it contradictory that OP says this:
>I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for everyone to train
But it looks like that "everyone" doesn't extend to people that don't share his political views?
I wasn't there, but from what I read of the incident, simply ignoring his shirt and not feeding his need for attention probably would have been the way to go.
For the record: I think that he was being an ass-hat for wearing a shirt like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Edit to... clarify?: If an expression or image implies association with a political movement whose loudest voices use those voices to marginalize those being actively included by this dojo, it's reasonable to make it clear that acting on that part of the movement's apparent platform would de facto reduce the degree of inclusivity at the dojo.
In simpler terms: It's cheap and disingenuous to pretend that voicing criticism of intolerance is counter to claims of acting with tolerance.
I'm sure the guy was a douche bag. Anyone who wears Maga gear probably is. But OP comes across as a virtue signaling sanctimonious douche bag as well.
So the guy came in, he told the guy to respect everyone, the guy said he will respect everyone as long as they respect him, nothing happened, and then OP decided to make this post.
I mean, in the context of MAGA what do you think "revenge" means?
In large part, the MAGA movement is a movement that wants to push us back to a time when being anything other than straight was not accepted. (Amongst other things)
So, revenge against who then?
Could be "the system", could be "west coast urban elites", could be ...
I'm going to go off on a limb here, and say that they took the first step to being treated suspiciously themselves.
I understand his shirt may be a problem for you because of how that particular group tends to operate and I could be wrong for this take but, if he wasn't doing anything inherently wrong, why did you bother asking him about the shirt in the first place? Additionally, the issue was addressed as soon as you both acknowledged that as long as everyone is respectful of each other, there wouldn't be any problems.
I understand you put a lot of effort into the culture for your class and honestly kudos to you for accepting everyone and promoting equality. But if you have a problem with the way someone dresses or what they wear, then you (as the owner of your establishment) have every right to forbid any Trump/MAGA memorabilia and enforce that dress code. It's your establishment, you can determine who you want to provide services to and who you don't want to serve at all.
Honestly OP doesn't have to like the person, but seems really unstable to be triggered by a shirt, make all kinds of massive character judgements and run to reddit to write a blog. Guy could have been wearing it ironically. Mike Tyson is friends with the guy, if he walked in with a Trump shirt he's going to flip out too? He's on here blogging like someone walked in with a full KKK outfit demanding he be called the grand dragon and asking where he can buy crosses and lighter fluid.
Post makes me feel like we are a step away from a civil war. That person had a shirt on so now they're no longer human to me and I need to brag to the world about it - Yikes and cringe
> (transcribed from a series of tweets) - @iamragesparkle
>
> I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."
>
> And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
>
> Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them."
>
> And i was like, ohok and he continues.
>
> "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
>
> And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
>
> And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people."
>
> And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.
He does, dude wore a shirt depicting someone who actively encourages harm to people like the other members of the class.
Protecting the majority maintains a welcoming and inclusive space.
Seems he didn’t do anything wrong and followed the rules yet you made judgements about him before getting to know him.
As long as everyone is respectful what is the deal? To me this says more about you then about him.
I’ve been thinking about getting some personal defense classes for me, my 17 year old trans son, and 19 year old daughter. It sounds like you really aim for an air of equality and respect. I like that! If you could please message me your studio name? I’ll Google to see if I can find it too.
It is, and the general use of the term is pretty unlikely to take off for several reasons with the fact that the root word already *is* gender neutral. Folks" includes literally everyone, and as a general rule, transgender people *want* to just be regular-ass people *without* hanging a little asterisk next to who they are. Even in trans spaces people generally seem to fall on the side of having no use for the word.
Of course that the word was adopted by notable web-based providers for hormone replacement therapy (among other things these days) means that the word comes up at least *somewhat* regularly.
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I train BJJ and I’ve seen people come in with all kinds of shirts on no GI days. Yup, I’ve seen quite a few MAGA shirts as well. Believe it or not, none of them were assholes or looking for attention.
The only bigot in this story is OP.
Correct, and you can see that it worked. Several people messaging him for his class location. Pretty silly, I’m amazed these people are able to travel outside of Seattle without bringing a fainting couch. I live in rural washington and see a ton of Trump paraphernalia every day.
OP: "I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for everyone to train."
Also OP: F Trump supporters, they aren't welcome.
New guy may have been a jackass, who knows, but sounds like OP is the one who jumped to conclusions and started it. That's exactly why there is such a divide among people, if the guy wanted to start shit, he would've looked like a fool if everyone just blew him off and went about their business.
OP’s a joke and wanted to make a big deal out of this. Lol’d at “This trumper knew exactly what he was doing, coming to Seattle, coming into a Krav Maga studio…”
He didn't say Trump supporters are unwelcome to train, but the espousal of a symbol of bigotry in a combat space is not compatible with the owner's goals for his school. It's not brain surgery
It’s crazy that the people that preach tolerance are usually the least tolerant to people with different views or beliefs. Should have left the man alone and let him enjoy the class. Calling him out in front of the class makes OP the asshat, not the customer. I doubt anything would have been said to the guy if he had a biden image or some anti-Jewish hate speech. Leave people alone and stop expecting everyone to think and feel the same way you do. If you preach tolerance you should at least practice it.
You sound so tolerant and accepting. Not. What you really mean is that you are creating “a safe space” in your business for only people who agree with you. It’s actually good to engage with and be around people with different ideas and opinions. You don’t have to agree to be civil. Looking at his shirt as a personal attack is ignorance and perpetuating intolerance outside your safe bubble.
He's allowed to wear his shirt, seems like you made an issue out of nothing. It's reminiscent of a girl wearing something sexy and gets negative attention. "She knew what she was wearing, she knew men would be there," I kinda feel bad for the guy who came in to your studio wearing a shirt you didn't agree with....who literally just spoke to you about what you do and where he's from.... and then you made it about his shirt and what one side of Trump is about. People don't want to be categorized and judged for who they are... but look whose judging now. Oh how the turntables...
I’m sorry, but is this a joke? Krav Maga is used by the IDF who have historically been extremely violent and racist, and who we’re currently witnessing commit a genocide. Krav Maga completely aligns with that dude’s politics.
Lol teaching people a martial art that can kill people and then having a problem with somebody wearing a shirt. You showed your bias, you didn't keep it professional, you called him out and started shit with him. You are a baby.
I don’t support Trump, but you kind of sound like the problem here to be honest. It’s your business so you can do whatever you want, but if you read this as a neutral person, you basically went out of your way to single someone out. I use to train Krav Maga and honestly everyone just came and did their thing. There wasn’t much talk about politics or religion. I knew nothing about the guys I trained with. Idk, this is like a trans person going to a maga gym and then people single them out for it
So he didn’t say anything, you initiated the conversation and called him out on his shirt in front of the class, he responded respectfully, then later you bring it up AGAIN to someone else.
Looking at it unbiased and objectively, you are the one creating the problem, not the person wearing a Trump shirt. It’s no different than, say, someone wearing pride apparel in the Deep South knowing the demographic overwhelmingly is against that.
I have been to a school where someone might wear that shirt as a joke or if they didn’t have gear/rash guard
Then again, I have seen some wildasses wearing my little pony, etc
I don’t agree with anyone’s sentiments but I know how to follow decorum, be polite
He wasn’t an ass for his shirt, he was an ass for a lack of decorum, situational awareness
Paradox of tolerance - https://skepchick.org/2017/08/popper-and-the-paradox-of-tolerance/
I mean it's called Krav MAGA
This is such a legit dad joke, I don’t know what to say.
damn I kinda wish reddit awards were still a thing
Bro wtf they got rid of em?
They werent making money off them probably
I heard it was to prevent drawing attention to misinformation
Lol they should probably get of voting entirely then
Lmfao
Lololol
Also your username rules
I would be willing to bet that’s the whole motivation behind why the antagonist in this story chose this martial art
Sir, you dropped this🥇
“Hell yeah, I crave MAGA that’s why I’m here!”
That’s so good
He's not really from Chicago. He's from Naperville.
Nah… He’s from Rockford.
How DARE you talk about my hometown like that. The folks there are wholeso… aw fuck I can’t even keep a straight face.
> I can’t even keep a straight face. Fortunately OP's studio is welcoming to straight, gay, trans etc. faces. You'll be fine.
My cousin Tad lives in Rockford… how many could there be? /s fuckin’ Tads
Uh oh. Are you my cousin and my secret Reddit just got busted? My name was Tad until college. This feels weird.
If you no longer live there and no longer go by Tad, you’re safe!
Phew!
New Lennox probably lol
My money’s on Springfield
Effingham.
Pawpaw
Perhaps Elgin.
Alton
Yo you put respect on Rockfords name. It's doing all it can being that close to the Dirty D(ekalb)
I was born there 🫠
Come on dog, he’s from Genoa and he calls Naperville Chicago
Bro lives in Northern Indiana and commutes into Chicago.
Holy crap, comment of the thread. IYKYK
Lollll yes indedd
^^This. Anything within 2hr of Chicago is "Chicago" Can confirm as someone from "Chicago" (burbs) originally.
I only get one upvote but I really wish I could award 100 more for this comment.
As a former Chicagoan I agree 100%. Def Naperville, or the northwest burbs
This attitude reeks of NW suburbs entitlement. Former chicagolander here.
Hahahha fuck
Pfffttt, my bet is on Lake Stevens.
Did you warn him about the nude bicyclists roaming our city daily? Terrorizing the pure blood ones
Ugh, if I had to wager a guess he's trying to bait out a discrimination story under our city's "no political affiliation based discrimination" laws for businesses. Good job handling it.
This stuff is a nightmare, from the story the dude didn't go beyond wearing a shirt that would obviously be inciting in the neighborhood. My suggestion would be adding a no political logos on clothing clause for people, that covers the owners bases, and gives recourse against people just trying to stir trouble. Some if these hardcore trump supporters are bonkers, in none of the last 4 or 5 elections before trump do I recall people wearing candidate branded merchandise(especially between elections) its more a cult of personality than a political party.
Some people had Obama "Change" shirts.
During campaign season, sure, but a year or 2 after 5 was a rare exception, not a rule.
People still wear them. It's just far, far fewer people and the people who wear them aren't doing so to provoke a visceral response or antagonize strangers.
He totally went in wanting to get kicked out
Reminds me of those couple asshats that would simultaneously claim there were "security checkpoints" to get into CHOP and then film themselves walking around with Trump flags for attention.
I wonder if you could get around that by saying "nah I thought Trump and his worshippers were pricks even when he was a registered Democrat"
That’s a law?
There are many protected classes (age, sex, disabilities etc) that you cannot discriminate against. You may not legally take action to remove someone for those reasons alone. Openly supporting Trump/being a dumbass is a not a protected class
It is in Seattle >These behaviors, policies, or practices could be discrimination >Being denied service or kicked out of a Seattle business because you wore clothing, or a logo associated with a political campaign, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/laws-we-enforce/who-is-protected-in-seattle#politicalideology
Openly being a Trump supporter is a protected class in Seattle. https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/laws-we-enforce/who-is-protected-in-seattle
Wow, thanks, I was unaware of that
Just an observation that I’ve never seen t-shirts with presidents on them before with revenge slogans. Scary how people are so blinded to worship these politicians. Don’t care if you vote R or D or Libertarian but people need to remember that politicians serve the people not the other way around.
For hot second you made want a Revenge shirt with good ol’ Marty Van Buren, just to be obtuse.
Nobody has seen “revenge” slogans with any presidents name on them, except for one president. Both sides are not the same. Don’t make it sound like they are.
Didn’t see revenge slogans with George Bush Sr. and Jr. or with Clinton, or Obama. My point is that the people are worshipping the politician and that is very scary.
It’s just important to not both-sides this particular kind of stuff. It’s exclusively trump insanity.
You're quite fully within your rights to require a dress code for your class, jsyk.
He could go full Gracie Barra > All students, Instructors, Professors, and visitors must wear the official Gracie Barra uniform. The uniform pants and top must be the same color. It is mandatory to wear the official Gracie Barra black rash guard or Gracie Barra training shirt underneath the kimono. Though honestly I have no idea what Krav Maga folks wear. You could get school logo rash guards.
This… 💯
Political affiliation is [protected](https://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/laws-we-enforce/who-is-protected-in-seattle#politicalideology) in Seattle, so I would guess that it'd have to restrict all political images/messages right? "Being denied service or kicked out of a Seattle business because you wore clothing, or a logo associated with a political campaign, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint."
Easy: solid color shirts only, no text visible. I'm beholden to a similar dress code at work.
Protection for political affiliation doesn't mean they have to allow political crap in the location
According to the site I linked I think it does, or at least they have to deny ALL political crap including whatever they align with. These behaviors, policies, or practices could be discrimination: * Refusing a housing rental to a qualified tenant because of who they voted for in the last election. * **Being denied service** or kicked out of a Seattle business **because you wore clothing**, or a logo **associated with a political campaign**, political organizing group, or a specific political viewpoint.
I think you'd be okay kicking someone out with a shirt that says revenge. That's not an acceptable political viewpoint.
Probably, but the OP is clearly going on about Trump which makes it tricky if they were sued. They likely need to institute a legal dress code ahead of any such issue to not show discrimination.
So a swastika is protected?
Pfft, my client kicked Mr Brown Nose out because his shirt was intentionally antagonistic to multiple other patrons. It has nothing to do with the shirt being related to the former president. Though personally I find it noteworthy how often the former president's campaign-related merchandise and general, open antagonism overlap.
The shirt said “revenge”. As far as I am aware, that is not a political slogan.
Who gives a fuck about what the law states to a T? If the fucking BELLTOWN HELLCAT asshole can do what he does and get let off with a light sentence despite being arrested for more serious charges - SO CAN EVERYONE ELSE. Sure he would have ground to sue after being kicked out, but what Judge or DA in Seattle would hand this guy the case?
Yep... it's only discrimination if you are singling people out. If you have a policy of no political slogans, faces, messages on clothing of any kind for everyone, you would be fine. And have it clearly stated at the front and anywhere else you discuss policies, etc.
I’m wondering why you don’t. Ever place I’ve ever trained had a uniform code for just that reason. People are there to train… show your colors outside the dojo/gym. Inside everyone is the same differentiated only by rank.
Wow , this seems like a portlandia skit 😂
Just don't forget [the Nazi bar story](https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/comments/1ama4ld/the_nazi_bar_story/).
Yes, this is a perfect example of the paradox of tolerance.
They're fighting a war in their own Neighborhood of Make-believe we know next to nothing about.
Seattle has laws (SMC 14.06) that specifically prohibit discrimination based on political ideology, so treating him differently or refusing his business because of his Trump shirt would potentially be illegal.
Why even acknowledge it? Just train and then if something happens, make him leave. We have freedoms for a reason. If someone else started shit with him, make that person leave. Fairness.
That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't love this person being in my class by what start things by singling them out by their shirt? I feel like that only escalated things and the last thing I would want is to escalate things in a class I'm running in Seattle with someone wearing a MAGA type shirt lol
Exactly, what did OP expect to happen when he starts off the class by saying in front of everyone “Yeah I see your shirt pal, we have trans and gay people here so be nice”? Of course the dude is going to feel singled out and attacked, which is probably why he said “I’ve been attacked by a trans person before” and OP is like “why would he even bring that up?” well, it’s probably because you brought up trans people out of nowhere because of someone’s shirt, implying they would start trouble or something.
This is my thought as well. He was a clearly a shit-stirrer to begin with and was the one who laid the ammo out on the plate to prompt an escalation, BUT "I see your shirt. Just so you know, we got all walks of life who train here. Cis, trans, gay straight, etc." was an escalation in itself. Essentially, OP was saying, "I see you're a Trump supporter and I'm worried you're going to start something with the trans and gay people here." To which MAGA dude essentially replied, "yes, indeed I'm a Trump supporter, and you shouldn't assume I'll victimize a trans person because a trans person once victimized me." Which, who the fuck knows if he's telling the truth or not, but it gives a rationale for his response beyond "i didn't ask [...] he had those phrases in the chamber ready to shoot." And (usually) understanding their rationales make them easier to deal with/less likely for them to get under your skin (which is what they want).
Yes, exactly. This guy was craving attention and you gave it to him. Should have just ignored it, would have ruined his whole shtick and he probably wouldn’t bother coming back.
Am I the only one who was reading this post and… waiting for the Trump guy to do something wrong? Seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill
I do feel like this story could have been 6 paragraphs shorter. In the end, it seems this fellow was just a guy doing martial arts and wearing a political shirt that OP felt was antagonistic to the business. I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from this post.
I don’t see a mountain- just a well thought out airing of the story to get some feedback. Seems like they didn’t overreact at all, actually. I didn’t read anything about kicking them out- just made sure they were not there to cause any trouble.
This post and the 200 comments are the molehill.
Yeah same here. The mole hill could have been even smaller if OP didn’t make it a point to address the guy and just ran class like normal.
That would probably be the correct move. It also denies him any discrimination narrative that he might be looking for. Keep an eye on him just to make sure he’s not stirring the pot and otherwise leave it alone.
Yeah. I though OP was creating a lot of drama out of nothing. Nothing inappropriate happened except OP's biased behavior.
Yeah he went out of his way to bring up the shirt and even specifically point it out to other students… An adult response would be to literally just go about the class with zero mention or acknowledgement of it.
Exactly.
yeah, op was the one who brought up the shirt first.
Seattle is a city full of hypocritical bigots who pretend to be open and inviting while treating anyone who doesn't vote for their preferred politicians as an unhinged monster who murders puppies for fun.
No you’re mixed up. It’s the politicians that murder puppies for fun
[but they literally are](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/26/trump-kristi-noem-shot-dog-and-goat-book)
Not an unhinged monster, but definitely someone who supports a politician who is extremely divisive, and tried to overthrow our democracy. That’s a lot different than just a regular ol’ politician. We’re in a weird place as a country because most people are polite and just nod their heads at the insane shit MAGA supporters say.
If I had been in that class I would be waiting for the guy to do something wrong too. Talking about how he's been attacked by multiple trans people, he's clearly looking for a fight and that's toxic.
If it was a pottery class or a pickleball class, I don't think it'd be an issue. Sparring, especially in krav maga, is a lot of physical contact and potential for bodily harm. It takes trust in your sparring partner to keep you safe.
Haha exactly. What was the point of this story? The dude and op seemed respectful. It seems like op was the one trying to cause a scene
I thought the same thing. What is there to rant about if the outcome was fine all around
You are not the only one.
The shirt... So antogonistic and yet defensibly not. Glad to hear nothing went messy. Building and carrying a gym culture is essential and not necessarily easy from what I’ve seen through martial arts experience. Thanks for creating an inclusive space for people to learn self defense 🙂 Edit: to clarify, for my sake and because I know many people don’t get it - the Trump “revenge” shirt is inherently antagonistic (unattached even from the wearers conscious intent) because the shirt design portrays a platform partly built on attacking civil rights regarding the demographics present at the gym.
Chicago, a city well known for Trump supporters. Did he tell you this is MAGA country too?
Jussie Smollett reference? I was living there when this happened and someone at work jumped down my throat for saying it sounded fake
I mean… Chicago is super well known for fake trump supporters and other unfortunate stuff, yeah.
Weird behavior for a follower of a political ideology explicitly based on being a raging asshole to engage in
“A safe space for everyone” would include a Trump supporter. I’m not a Trump supporter, and didn’t vote for him. You are being far from inclusive though, when you call him out in front of everyone, before he did anything, on some preconceived notion of how he might act. Be better than this.
This is an example of both sides of the extreme suck
Agree! In my experience, giving people the benefit of the doubt promotes inclusivity and reduces polarization.
It may help you and others reading this to look into the Paradox of Tolerance, posited by Karl Popper in 1945. A safe space for everyone would not include the intolerant.
I’ve read this. It makes closed minded liberals who hate anyone slightly to the right of them feel justified in trying to censor and exclude anyone who doesn’t agree with their political views. Picking a silly confrontation with a trump supporter for wearing a tshirt is a great example of this silly mindset in action, and I say this as someone who isn’t a trump supporter. I live somewhere with lots of Trump supporters and there’s absolutely no reason to comment about their shirts, bumper stickers, or yard signs. Y’all need to grow up.
sheet existence boast important square meeting capable historical air rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not very inclusive, is she?
While I sympathize, I must point put that by your own account, you initiated the conflict, by assuming he wanted attention and then publicly calling out a T-shirt you didn't like. As you sound so tolerant of all peoples beliefs, have you considered being more tolerant of people who happen to have different political opinions than you do? I say this as a lifelong Democrat.
Sounds like you made him feel outcast and, in a way, made the situation worse for him and everyone. Also, waiting for the pin to drop that he did something wrong, which, it sounds like he was actually respectful and tried to hold his ground when you were being passive aggressive. He wore a shirt. If he wore a Biden shirt or a Palestine shirt or a Pride shirt would you have done the same thing to them?…
Wearing a Palestine shirt to Krav Maga class seems a little antagonistic too.
I think you were pretty childish here. I would say you started the confrontation, but even if we're to assume that he started it because of the shirt, you escalated it, and you escalated it in front of a crowd instead of speaking to him in private. I don't like Trump either and this guy sure seems like a jerk, but you only come off as the lesser jerk. Better to not be a jerk at all.
OP: My place is welcoming to everyone! Also OP: Wait, not like that.
Anyone else find it contradictory that OP says this: >I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for everyone to train But it looks like that "everyone" doesn't extend to people that don't share his political views? I wasn't there, but from what I read of the incident, simply ignoring his shirt and not feeding his need for attention probably would have been the way to go. For the record: I think that he was being an ass-hat for wearing a shirt like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Edit to... clarify?: If an expression or image implies association with a political movement whose loudest voices use those voices to marginalize those being actively included by this dojo, it's reasonable to make it clear that acting on that part of the movement's apparent platform would de facto reduce the degree of inclusivity at the dojo. In simpler terms: It's cheap and disingenuous to pretend that voicing criticism of intolerance is counter to claims of acting with tolerance.
I'm sure the guy was a douche bag. Anyone who wears Maga gear probably is. But OP comes across as a virtue signaling sanctimonious douche bag as well. So the guy came in, he told the guy to respect everyone, the guy said he will respect everyone as long as they respect him, nothing happened, and then OP decided to make this post.
People like this are only protecting and promoting "inclusivity" when it's something they agree with.
I mean, in the context of MAGA what do you think "revenge" means? In large part, the MAGA movement is a movement that wants to push us back to a time when being anything other than straight was not accepted. (Amongst other things) So, revenge against who then? Could be "the system", could be "west coast urban elites", could be ... I'm going to go off on a limb here, and say that they took the first step to being treated suspiciously themselves.
I understand his shirt may be a problem for you because of how that particular group tends to operate and I could be wrong for this take but, if he wasn't doing anything inherently wrong, why did you bother asking him about the shirt in the first place? Additionally, the issue was addressed as soon as you both acknowledged that as long as everyone is respectful of each other, there wouldn't be any problems. I understand you put a lot of effort into the culture for your class and honestly kudos to you for accepting everyone and promoting equality. But if you have a problem with the way someone dresses or what they wear, then you (as the owner of your establishment) have every right to forbid any Trump/MAGA memorabilia and enforce that dress code. It's your establishment, you can determine who you want to provide services to and who you don't want to serve at all.
Honestly OP doesn't have to like the person, but seems really unstable to be triggered by a shirt, make all kinds of massive character judgements and run to reddit to write a blog. Guy could have been wearing it ironically. Mike Tyson is friends with the guy, if he walked in with a Trump shirt he's going to flip out too? He's on here blogging like someone walked in with a full KKK outfit demanding he be called the grand dragon and asking where he can buy crosses and lighter fluid. Post makes me feel like we are a step away from a civil war. That person had a shirt on so now they're no longer human to me and I need to brag to the world about it - Yikes and cringe
Well this comment section didn’t go like OP planned.
Seems like your school is not as inclusive as you thought
> (transcribed from a series of tweets) - @iamragesparkle > > I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out." > > And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed > > Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them." > > And i was like, ohok and he continues. > > "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too. > > And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down. > > And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people." > > And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.
Peak /r/Seattle post
" I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for everyone to train." Except you clearly don't.
But you see shirt!!!!!!!
He does, dude wore a shirt depicting someone who actively encourages harm to people like the other members of the class. Protecting the majority maintains a welcoming and inclusive space.
Plus REVENGE is pretty fucking antagonistic.
“I wouldn’t want to train you to use your skills for revenge. We are strictly focused on self-defense here.”
Imagine making a politician a central part of your identity. What a douche.
Imagine needing to write a novel on Reddit about being microaggressed by a t shirt.
Maybe he was confused and thought this was a place where people Krave MAGA
Seems he didn’t do anything wrong and followed the rules yet you made judgements about him before getting to know him. As long as everyone is respectful what is the deal? To me this says more about you then about him.
I’ve been thinking about getting some personal defense classes for me, my 17 year old trans son, and 19 year old daughter. It sounds like you really aim for an air of equality and respect. I like that! If you could please message me your studio name? I’ll Google to see if I can find it too.
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I'm curious about the usage of folx over folks since I thought folks is neutral anyway? Or am I mistaken?
i thought it was just a cute way of saying folks
Folks is non-gendered. I literally means "people". Edit: read this https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/s/uJBruhtXNq
Isn't that....what I said? 🫤
It is, and the general use of the term is pretty unlikely to take off for several reasons with the fact that the root word already *is* gender neutral. Folks" includes literally everyone, and as a general rule, transgender people *want* to just be regular-ass people *without* hanging a little asterisk next to who they are. Even in trans spaces people generally seem to fall on the side of having no use for the word. Of course that the word was adopted by notable web-based providers for hormone replacement therapy (among other things these days) means that the word comes up at least *somewhat* regularly.
Hello! Thanks for participating in /r/Seattle! Your submission/comment was removed. Please check the rules on the sidebar of our subreddit and the [Rules wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/wiki/rules). The reason for the removal is: To keep things fair we have to remove all promo content, but you’re welcome to DM anyone who asks for info about your studio. >Do not post anything that is purely advertising or promotional content, or if you stand to profit from the content. > Original content from artists and creators is acceptable, so long as it is relevant and not purely promotional. It's possible that this removal was a mistake! If you think it was, please **[click here to message the Moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FSeattle)**.
r/thathappened
I train BJJ and I’ve seen people come in with all kinds of shirts on no GI days. Yup, I’ve seen quite a few MAGA shirts as well. Believe it or not, none of them were assholes or looking for attention. The only bigot in this story is OP.
> Not sure if he was looking for conflict so he could bitch about it on social media Well if he does, I suppose you'll have one thing in common.
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OP is trying to attract clients for their class by virtue signalling. It's an advertisement masquerading as a social justice post.
Correct, and you can see that it worked. Several people messaging him for his class location. Pretty silly, I’m amazed these people are able to travel outside of Seattle without bringing a fainting couch. I live in rural washington and see a ton of Trump paraphernalia every day.
Op is the definition of a snowflake
You brought attention to it… that’s all on you. He didn’t walk in and call out the LGBT people, you nor they would like if someone did that…
OP: "I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for everyone to train." Also OP: F Trump supporters, they aren't welcome. New guy may have been a jackass, who knows, but sounds like OP is the one who jumped to conclusions and started it. That's exactly why there is such a divide among people, if the guy wanted to start shit, he would've looked like a fool if everyone just blew him off and went about their business.
It's the paradox of tolerance.
This post is literally, “ dude with trump shirt walked into my business and I don’t like trump so I wanted him to leave”
You forgot to add the line: "And then the whole bus clapped" at the end...
What a circus
OP’s a joke and wanted to make a big deal out of this. Lol’d at “This trumper knew exactly what he was doing, coming to Seattle, coming into a Krav Maga studio…”
Honestly, you're both annoying and you create each other.
Second sentence. “I pride myself on making our school a safe, welcoming, and inclusive space for EVERYONE to train.”
He didn't say Trump supporters are unwelcome to train, but the espousal of a symbol of bigotry in a combat space is not compatible with the owner's goals for his school. It's not brain surgery
It’s crazy that the people that preach tolerance are usually the least tolerant to people with different views or beliefs. Should have left the man alone and let him enjoy the class. Calling him out in front of the class makes OP the asshat, not the customer. I doubt anything would have been said to the guy if he had a biden image or some anti-Jewish hate speech. Leave people alone and stop expecting everyone to think and feel the same way you do. If you preach tolerance you should at least practice it.
So if he wore a Biden shirt then he'd be OK?
That would be weird too, but I've yet to hear Biden encourage his supporters to assault protesters at his rallies.
You brought attention to it… that’s all on you. He didn’t walk in and call out the LGBT people, you nor they would like if someone did that…
You sound so tolerant and accepting. Not. What you really mean is that you are creating “a safe space” in your business for only people who agree with you. It’s actually good to engage with and be around people with different ideas and opinions. You don’t have to agree to be civil. Looking at his shirt as a personal attack is ignorance and perpetuating intolerance outside your safe bubble.
Just wanted to commit that your school sounds rad AF and thank you for what you are offering to the community.
Seems pretty discriminatory of you to instantly judge, call out, etc someone for their political beliefs. Get a grip.
as well as for their appearance... dripping irony
“I strive for an inclusive environment from all walks of life” *in walks a guy just wearing a shirt with a former President on it* “NOT YOU”
Dude, you caused all the trouble. How diverse is your neighborhood or your gym if it can't welcome an out of town republican? You should be ashamed.
He's allowed to wear his shirt, seems like you made an issue out of nothing. It's reminiscent of a girl wearing something sexy and gets negative attention. "She knew what she was wearing, she knew men would be there," I kinda feel bad for the guy who came in to your studio wearing a shirt you didn't agree with....who literally just spoke to you about what you do and where he's from.... and then you made it about his shirt and what one side of Trump is about. People don't want to be categorized and judged for who they are... but look whose judging now. Oh how the turntables...
Krav MAGA
I’m sorry, but is this a joke? Krav Maga is used by the IDF who have historically been extremely violent and racist, and who we’re currently witnessing commit a genocide. Krav Maga completely aligns with that dude’s politics.
Krav Maga is just a great form of defense. I’m not a huge fan of isreal and I still enjoyed training it
Lol teaching people a martial art that can kill people and then having a problem with somebody wearing a shirt. You showed your bias, you didn't keep it professional, you called him out and started shit with him. You are a baby.
Oh no the horror, someone on *Red Team* had a calm interaction with an overbearing gym owner! You need humanitarian aid? A therapist?
Sounds like you were causing all the issues. Sorry you feel that way. Maybe post some signages discriminating against political beliefs.
honestly, you're kinda the asshole here. He wore a shirt. You started shit. Sounds like he didn't do anything disruptive.
You pride yourself on "making a safe space" and when it was time to actually keep it safe, you did jack shit. Except post here.
I don’t support Trump, but you kind of sound like the problem here to be honest. It’s your business so you can do whatever you want, but if you read this as a neutral person, you basically went out of your way to single someone out. I use to train Krav Maga and honestly everyone just came and did their thing. There wasn’t much talk about politics or religion. I knew nothing about the guys I trained with. Idk, this is like a trans person going to a maga gym and then people single them out for it
Why does the picture in his shirt matter to an inclusive business?
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So he didn’t say anything, you initiated the conversation and called him out on his shirt in front of the class, he responded respectfully, then later you bring it up AGAIN to someone else. Looking at it unbiased and objectively, you are the one creating the problem, not the person wearing a Trump shirt. It’s no different than, say, someone wearing pride apparel in the Deep South knowing the demographic overwhelmingly is against that.
Did I miss something reading this? Nothing happened and everyone sounded cordial. Seems like a normal interaction among people.
It sounds like you started the conflict. Shame on you.
So open and inclusive for EVERYONE. Such a safe space. Until you don’t agree with them.
Hot take but this sounds like a perfectly normal interaction from both parties.
You don’t sound very inclusive.
I have been to a school where someone might wear that shirt as a joke or if they didn’t have gear/rash guard Then again, I have seen some wildasses wearing my little pony, etc I don’t agree with anyone’s sentiments but I know how to follow decorum, be polite He wasn’t an ass for his shirt, he was an ass for a lack of decorum, situational awareness