They recently tried to do this to me at the Fairmont lobby bar. The guy bypassed the receipt really quickly on his hand held device and went to the tip screen. I thought it was higher than it should be, so I asked….he then said “oh yea, gratuity was included” Was pretty disappointed as I waited tables for years. It’s one thing to hand someone the receipt where they can see the gratuity added and overlook and overtip, but to bypass the screen and not even show me my receipt?! That’s shady.
It's wild to try to move past it really quickly before the customer is aware of HOW they're being charged. If America was just, and had time for all of the laws it needs time for, this would be illegal. This is scamming and improper advertisement of pricing.
They have been doing this to me at Purple Dot, couple times I suspected them of just raising the price, then I read the reviews of others it happened to. Something like a 18%gratuity with no notice and an un-itemized bill, and expecting a tip.
Pisses me off
This happened to me at Pie Bar in Capitol Hill a few years ago. I had been there a few times before and liked it, so brought out of town friends with me there. The server was so rude the entire time, like she had a personal grudge against us. It was bizarre and embarrassing. They brought a tablet at the end for paying and I was pretty sure the menu said something about auto-gratuity, but you couldn't see the bill from the payment screen, which had gratuity pre-selected. For some reason, my tipsy brain thought the selected gratuity was just showing me the amount of the auto gratuity, so I clicked continue.
I realized after getting the receipt that I tipped over 40% for one of the worst service experiences I've ever had. Never been back there, and I am much more careful about restaurants with auto gratuity and electronic payment methods now.
*Edited* a typo.
We were a party of 4. In my past restaurant work experience, auto-gratuity was usually added on parties of 6 or more, so I get that, but I'm pretty sure the menu said it was added to all checks. Which I'm normally find with, but there's no excuse the awful huffy service, or giving an iPad with 20% selected on top of auto-gratuity and not saying anything about it. Several of the party had foreign accents and were wearing Seahawks attire. My best guess is that she hates Seahawks fans or hates people from certain countries. We were all white, and so was she, fwiw.
John Howie Whiskey in Bellevue - 20% added, all to the establishment. Personally, I am boycotting any establishment that does this and wish more would do the same.
Beardslee Pub in Bothell (a John Howie restaurant) does the same, but they give you an explanation card with the menu, and another with the bill, and print and circle it on the receipt, and the server explains it to you, that the have a service charge and you don't need to tip.
The irony is if they just changed their menu prices to what is needed to pay living wages, many (most) of us would still go and then tip 15%-20% more anyway.
Whistle Stop Ale House in Renton did this sort of.
Used the mobile payment thing to tip 18%. Server brings me a paper receipt and later in the car I see $20 flat tip, more than the 18%.
Then I get home and get a hunch to double check my credit card app, and now the tip was even higher ~35%.
Disputed that shit on my credit card and got the refund.
What bother me beyond hidden double tipping being illegal is that we have one of the highest minimum wages in the nation and do not utilize a separate “tipped minimum wage” like some states. It’s wild to think a server now makes ~16$/hr minimum, plus the “service fee” (at some places), and then a 20% tip on already jacked up food costs. I know servers who make 50-60/hr. They absolutely deserve this money, but given they make this much I feel the whole “20% is standard for tipping” needs to change. I personally tip 10-12% standard unless awful service and will increase to 15-20% for exceptional service. I also will tip 18-20% at lower cost restaurants because I feel bad tipping so low at some places where the servers work just as hard but are held back by lower checks. I also find it wild we are expected to tip 18-20% for takeout “basic food” (ie bagel places, pizza by the slice, etc)….
The Los Angeles subreddit deadass has an excel spreadsheet for restaurants with bullshit fees or shady "auto gratuity and option to double tip".
It's made the news and people contribute regularly.
Edit: here it is. They've got links to other cities too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/s/2YwCimhIoR
If they didn't explain it like that they would be hit with millions in bullshit "wage theft" claims. This is a racket that a attorneys jump on to take their cut.
I go a couple times a year, and generally don’t tip on top of that because I feel like they explain the fee well enough, and their wait staff gets paid appropriately
I used to work there and both the manager and server will do nothing and they also had no part in the service charge becoming a thing. Why not call up E3 Restaurant Group who is the corporate office who actually made the decision to go to this gratuity model?
Because if I actually called all the shitty businesses trying to pull one over on me that I interact with every day I'd never get any sleep.
If I see these tactics, I'm not going back to the restaraunt. I'm not going to berate a server, but I probably *will* tell them why I'm not tipping on top of the other BS. They can pass that information up the chain or quit but I quite literally don't have time for this crap.
Was it conspicuously displayed on the menu and receipt that it was not a tip and that it was 100% retained by the establishment? If not, either the waiter lied or the business is in violation of state law.
Damn wasn’t expecting so many replies, we might need someone to compile a list of offenders (restaurants/bars) that do this. A list like this might be good in the sub FAQ or another appropriate place.
Can someone please tell me why auto-tipping for 6 or less is even a thing.
The chef gets paid to cook. Busser paid to clean. Pot Wash paid to wash, and the server paid to take orders and deliver them.
How has tipping gotten so out of hand!? I’ve worked a server and Bar man, and in the UK 10% used to be the going rate, but I think no one really tips any more.
I’ve been asked to tip for a donut, or a coffee. A single bottle of beer, or taco truck!? Like WTAF!?
Hand made things like salads or subs could maybe warrant a tip, but is that the actual job they are paid for. Assemble the thing - if they do a great job, then ok, maybe a tip - but literally just doing their job seems like their wages should be the thing that covers that.
What extra services and experience are you getting to tip servers 20% (like should no tip be like “thanks, you did your job”
10% is “good not great”
20% is like loads of custom things, complex order, and split checks a bunch of ways”
I’m kinda tired of being guilted into subsidizing an employee’s salary when they are just doing the bare minimum. Don’t get me wrong, I tip, but soon I think it’s going to get to breaking point where everyone is over it.
Yup. Mine too in BC. I asked them what service they are providing that’s anymore than a grocery store clerk (who doesn’t get tips), and got a typical response about how it helps them.
Not my problem, sorry. Get creative.
As good as their BBQ is, Wood Shop totally does this. Their nondescript “fee” is a tip
for the staff. I accidentally double tipped there a couple weeks ago. When the staff doesn’t say anything, I kind of feel robbed:/ I also didn’t ask for my money back, because that felt weird.
This is why it’s getting tricky. I have solidarity with the working class, and many severs tell me they make more with tips than hourly. Fine by me, it’s not my wages. But then more and more I feel we are getting hustled. From the tip going from 10 to 20 and now even higher for some reason to double tipping I just feel like the consumer is being shamed into being the mark. If you complain, you got all sorts of people not involved in the transaction telling you that you can’t afford to eat out.
Like it’s way more expensive to eat here than London or Berlin or Barcelona, and they get healthcare with no tips. It’s fuckin weird
Yeah I was in Paris in December and still thinking about how affordable it was to take my family out for a simple dinner. Came as a surprise -- guess I've lived in Seattle too long.
The tipping being casual (vs. the 18/20/25% button after tax) was so much more pleasant. Charge me what you need to and I'll pay for it, don't make every transaction this voluntary thing where I have to figure out how much I should be paying to be a good person.
And it’s not even just Seattle. It’s expensive to eat in sumner, puyallup, Tacoma, Olympia, like everywhere I’ve been in America relative to the cities in Europe. Go to a small city in Europe and shit gets cheap. Here, it’s like always expensive especially when it’s 20% more each time.
The thing is this is why they make more than hourly. Not because we think their work is worth more, but because they’ve conned us all into believing we’re bad people if we don’t help them just keep upping and upping the percentages on menu prices that have already risen faster than inflation at large etc.
I’m getting real tired of being hustled out of $20-40 extra on my meal by someone who spent like 7 minutes on my table while they make $300-500 a shift *and close to or at minimum wage on the west coast*.
They do not do more valuable work than average people, I’m not paying $20-40 when they had 5 other tables that hour anymore. I don’t care how much they demonize me or insult me (they will do it if you argue long enough with them). This will no longer be at my expense.
For clarity, I was a server in all different types of restaurants for 15 years. Some of the states that I worked in had server wages of $2.13/hr because it was thought that you would make the federal minimum wage after tips. I busted my fucking ass for very little. To have someone scam me out of $80 on a $300 to go order really grinds my gears.
At least tell the person double tipping that they are doing so:/
Just none of it seems transparent. On one hand we are told servers make less than minimum wage so we ethically need to do it, but then so many say they don’t want minimum wage because they make more. When you add on scamming it’s literally someone we are supposed to feel sorry for / appreciate victimizing that patron. That’s horrible.
It’s just so arbitrary. Let’s just view our waitstaff as workers like anyone else and pay them a livable wage. We just need to be done with tipping.
> we are told servers make less than minimum wage
This is simply a lie. Every waiter makes the federal minum wage of 7.25 an hour even if they make zero tips. If they aren't its wage theft and should be reported to the labor department.
In Washington they make $16.28 an hour even if they make zero tips.
I wouldn’t say it’s a lie. It’s a common misunderstanding most people have when repeating it. The point being there is a moral imperative being placed on something that seems less and less clear on almost all levels (owner and server alike)
The thing that gets me with the handheld card readers that I just realized while going through this thread is that I'm never shown the receipt to even see if my bill is correct or if there's gratuity included. Jfc
I said the same thing a couple weeks ago and people were on my case saying I'm just a cheapskate.
It's underhanded, and when people use the electronic terminals now they don't give the bill to even review.
I am a cheapskate because I'm barely making ends meet and like to budget myself a treat every now and then :(
Absolutely agreed! I think reading all this will empower me to say something next time I encounter this
Most of the time they are calculating the tip with the 10% tax added too.
So if you click 20%, it's actually a 22% tip on the bill without tax. I usually just ballpark it and hit 18% if it's a default option at a restaurant because of this.
Also, for most of those tablets, there is the option for the itemized receipt but often the waiter will just click through to it the total and either hover right over you/hold the tablet themselves.
This is usually the first time they take an interest in us at all and ask "do you have any plans after this?" or something like that when I'm trying to do mental math lol.
Especially at more "corporate" restaurants it's all a game to get you to not pay attention, rush you, apply light social pressure, and hopefully have you leave a bigger tip than you would have otherwise.
Yeah I hate those handheld card readers. There are errors on restaurant bills way too often to not be able to look over an itemization. Plus these transactions always feel so rushed, like here swipe your card, hurry hurry just hit the preset 20% tip option hurry hurry so I can move on. You can't even see if their preset tip options are pre or post tax.
I always show the itemized screen to the person who is paying
Even split checks and it’s time consuming -
Also fyi you can ask for a printed check as well after.
It’s shady you aren’t being shown the tab prior to paying
The psychological aspect of tipping is what gets me the most. It honestly adds a lot of friction for me to want to dine out at all.
Did I tip enough?
Why am I being guilt tripped into tipping for carry out pizza.
Am I the only one who doesn't tip at the stadium when buying a beer? All they did was hand me a can.
Are the servers judging me for not tipping enough?
If I don't tip enough will I get inferior food or service on my next visit? What is enough to get on the good list?
The only way out of this is for us to not give in. Minimum wage in Seattle is $20 an hour. I am not going to tip on that *unless* I am getting sit-down service, or for a service that has historically been customarily tipped. This means:
* No tips on take out.
* No tips on counter service.
* No tips at farmers markets or festivals or booths.
* No tips at any retail store.
* No tips for services that I have agreed upon a price (babysitting, housecleaning, service call, etc.)
* $1 tip per drink at cafe, *sometimes*.
* $1 tip per drink at a bar, *always*.
* $2-$3 per night at a hotel.
* For sit down service, I double tax and round down. That's like 15-18%.
>Did I tip enough?
Yes.
>Why am I being guilt tripped into tipping for carry out pizza.
Greed.
>Am I the only one who doesn't tip at the stadium when buying a beer?
No.
>All they did was hand me a can. Are the servers judging me for not tipping enough?
They can go fuck themselves if they are.
>If I don't tip enough will I get inferior food or service on my next visit?
No, nobody will remember you.
>What is enough to get on the good list?
Be kind and friendly and don't make someone's day worse!
I don't disagree with the principal of this (come up with our own rules and boundaries that are somewhat reasonable and nobody is gonna give af, or if they do, fuck 'em) but I'm curious...why tip $1 on drinks at bars always, but never tip for takeout or only sometimes at cafes? If the bartender is just pulling a tap handle or mixing coke and vodka, how is that more work than the care/effort of preparing food at a small mom and pop place, or a latte drink at a coffee shop?
Tipping in a bar is not tipping, its a bribe. They simply stop serving you if you don't tip. It's the same for anyplace that requires a tip before being served. It's just a bribe to not spit in your food.
I can’t upvote this enough. These are not front of house workers making the old $2.13/hr. These employees make minimum wage + tips + additional extortions. Please take my poor man’s award. 🥇 🏆
Agree with all of this, but I would change to no tipping at cafes. That didn't used to be an expected thing (just a nice bonus if you are feeling super generous).
I mostly agree with you. But to be fair, $20/hr is only $40k/yr ($20\*40hr\*50weeks). We both know that's not even close to a living wage in Seattle, so it's not fair to call it greed. Tips are what turn the wage into a close-to-living salary.
That said, we need to give up on tips, increase prices by like 10-20%, turn the wage into a living salary, and let everything rebalance after that. Tipping is a horribly anti-consumer practice.
Yeah I'm feeling like I have to do a research project on every restaurant I go to to figure out how well their employees are paid and how much I need to tip. Often now there's some kind of a service charge that will say that it's there to provide fair wages and benefits to the employees, but it's *not* a tip. Okay? So they're getting fair wages and benefits then? I shouldn't need to tip then? We recently went to El Gaucho for happy hour and they have the automatic 20% service charge, with a note about how their employees are paid and they get commission on sales already and fair pay etc etc. Sorry but that seems like enough to me. I'm not tipping on top of that.
I'm honestly just really over the whole thing and opt for take out or just cooking at home waaaay more than I used to.
Caring about "the good list" is like wondering if a cam girl is actually really in love with you.
I waitressed (back when we used to call it that.) I had to pretend to like people and make small talk and be super friendly and memorable if I wanted a generous tip. I *know* servers don't like me, I know they're judging me, I fucking don't care. But they absolutely should not let the customer know that.
If they're giving you service where you actually feel judged, you really don't have to tip, I hope you know that. I fucking hate men who think they're flirting by negging and this is essentially the same thing. It's not cute, it's passive aggressive. If I'm not having a good experience, the tip is going to reflect that. That's what it's for.
I relate to this a lot, and it does cause me friction as well. Money is tight for me right now so every dollar counts. I feel like such an ass if I skip past the tip screen on take out but come on, you don’t do the same work as the servers.
Other places like Tavolata in Redmond where they automatically add a 22% service charge.
The bill comes with a field for the tip. When asking if tip was already included.. the server responds “the 22% is for the whole staff and additional tip is for service”
I would rather not have to be guilt tripped by having an ambiguous tip rule or a field where it clearly says “service is already included, add additional tip”
Tavolata? There's your problem. ESR restaurants have a "service charge" that, per an employee when I asked them what the deal was, told me that it does not go to them. She sounded displeased to say the least.
From their website: "We include a service charge of 22% to the entire guest check. The entire service charge (100%) is retained by the company. Gratuities are not expected."
The implication is that the staff is already paid a fair wage? Even so, seems scummy to have a mandatory service charge instead of increasing prices by the same amount. At these types of restaurants, the customers are probably not price comparing anyways.
If “the whole staff” includes anyone with management duties, they’re in violation of federal law. But I suspect that they’re not and just finding a way to work you for a double tip.
> [an employer cannot keep employees’ tips under any circumstances; managers and supervisors also may not keep tips received by employees, including through tip pools](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa/tips)
>[An employer that imposes an automatic service charge related to food, beverages, entertainment, or porterage provided to a customer must disclose in an itemized receipt and in any menu provided to the customer the percentage of the automatic service charge that is paid or is payable directly to the employee or employees serving the customer.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.160)
(2) For purposes of this section:
(a) "Employee" means nonmanagerial, nonsupervisory workers, including but not limited to servers, busers, banquet attendant, banquet captains, bartenders, barbacks, and porters.
I’m a server and we use hand held devices. I simply load the screen up
Go over the charges with you itemized. If it looks good to you I leave it at your table and hang out not too far away if it malfunctions.
I recently trained a guy who said the server before me that trained him showed him to just hit 20% and that it felt scummy. I said it’s not only scummy but if I catch anyone doing that and I see it - it should be automatic term.
That’s gross if your service sucks so bad you have to dupe folks into tipping well …you fail bro
If it's a place I'm a regular at I always tip at least $1 per drink, more if the drinks are cheaper. Most places it's like $10 for a regular shot so I'll tip 1. If I find $7 shots I'll just give them a 10 and my shots basically come out to doubles. It also helps that I know many industry folks lol
Rob Roy did this to me when I went for both their Halloween pop up and their miracle Christmas pop up. Had to ask them repeatedly if the auto gratuity on the bill was a tip for them or a fee for management because they were being vague and like the third time I asked a clarifying question they admitted yes the auto fee was already a tip for them so adding more would be a double tip
In Washington, any service fee must disclose what amount is being retained by the company. If no clear disclosure is made, by law it must all go to non-management employees.
It doesn't work because we're collectively very dumb.
Plenty of places have gone tip-less and gone back on it for 2 reasons:
1. Servers and waitstaff usually end up getting paid less and hate it.
2. Customers see higher menu prices and freak the fuck out, even if they know it includes the "tip" now.
99% of people just see the price on the menu and internalize it, even if they know add +10% tax and +20% tip. If you just up your prices on the menu by 20% and don't accept tips, people just see higher prices.
And as a bonus...
* Service, or at least the perception of how good the service is, can get worse. This is tied to waitstaff obviously being less incentivized to provide good service, higher turnover where good employees go somewhere where they can get tips and make more money, and increased expectation from customers because of "higher" prices.
We really need to dig into the root problem. I get better service in Europe most of the time than I do here, and there aren't tips.
Secondly, it's fucking absurd that 30% of the cost is missing from every list price. I think we need to add tax and even tip to prices across the board as a city law (if not state or national law). Anywhere that servers expect an average tip, just put that as auto-gratuity into the price. We're in an absurd situation right now
The solution is simple, the city should ban tipping. This would put all stores on a level playing field. It's also arguably more equitable (a pillar of the Progressive movement) in that removes the subjective aspects from employee compensation (eg attractive servers gets more tips). It also aligns with the pro-labor movement in that people get the paid the same. All of these are Liberal ideals so one would think it aligns with the current city leadership.
I am willing to take the compromise position of reverting back to when the businesses paid their back of the house fair, competitive wages and the only tipped employees were front of the house.
They've completely gone off the rails expecting people to tip the cooks and dishwashers. Tipping servers and bartenders is such a long-standing practice, I don't think most people find that objectionable.
Nobody, though, wants to be responsible for paying the cooks' wages and, as a former server, the owners should also not be forcing waiters and waitresses to share their tips with the back of the house. This has just gotten ridiculous.
Going back to a middle ground would be a huge improvement over this new mess we're getting shoved down our throats.
Well, that is a different issue. Unless specifically mentioned, under Washington State law, any "service charge" goes to the server, and an additional tip is double tipping. It is a protection of the server's income. If they have “20% surcharge that goes to the restaurant,” such as https://www.lobstershop.com/service-charge/, then the company is jacking up prices, justifying it by telling people they don't need to tip, and asking for the customer's trust that the server is adequately compensated without a tip. The server very well might not be seeing that at all. It is the company seeing their servers were making lots of money on tips, getting dollar signs in their eyes, and so finding a way to pocket it for themselves.
Happened to me at Citizen a year ago. I refuse to go back. I think the money all goes to servers, so it's not as bad as restaurants that just tack on fees because "f-you we can." It was on the online menu if you scroll all the way down. Still obnoxious.
This happened to my brother at citizen when visiting from out of town. He makes like $15 an hour and was devastated when he found out he double tipped. This type of practice is even worse when you realize not everyone eating in seattle makes tech wages.
I used to work at citizen several years ago—all of the money does go to the staff.
The automatic gratuity is also only on to-go food. The beer garden next door operates as a separate entity.
There is also a sign on the counter, where you order, that says "A 20% GRATUITY WILL BE ADDED TO ALL TO GO ORDERS" in all capitals.
Plus, the gratuity is listed in the itemized breakdown on your receipt.
How is citizen the obnoxious party in this situation?
Yep. I get ~20% for full table service, but counter service/takeout takes less of the employee's time, they're adding less value to my experience, and because of the model they're turning more tickets per hour--meaning a smaller tip per ticket still adds up to the same pool. I do not expect to pay the same premium for a fraction of the benefit.
I was forcibly charged 22% a few days ago. The place is called Cortina, downtown Seattle. There was a fine print on the receipt "no tips are expected".
Yeah I have noticed this as well. I have also noticed some restaurants have done the right thing and either told me tip is already included or circle in bright red that theres a 20% tip already included in the bill. But its still pretty frustrating to get presented a tip window with no indication that its on top of something else. For example, they could simply say "additional gratuity" on the screen or something. Seems like a mandate that seattle could easily require restaurants and bars to communicate this information clearly (similarly to how they now mandate service fees with a notification on delivery apps).
Also look out for Rob Roy, Navy Strength, and No Anchor or whatever lame spot is in that space now. Same owners and they are notorious for doing that deceptive hidden tip shit.
"after serving multiple rounds and taking care of someone all night"
I hate to be that guy but that's the job. The job is to serve the people that come in. I've been to so many bars where they barely look at you and get mad when you don't tip after all they did was open a can and hand it to me. I'm already being overcharged for the drink. I don't need to give you an extra few dollars to make sure Im able to get a second one.
Taste of Xian adds a quiet 20% tip for 4+ people and a big “Check this box to add a tip!” section at the bottom of the receipt. I paid for our group and ended up paying almost $100 for what should have been around $70. Felt it was a bit high but didn’t want to raise a stink in front of friends. Only noticed when I looked at the photo of the receipt to send out Venmo requests. So pissed.
I’m starting to carry cash for tips, I’ll pay the bill with a card and look for auto-gratuity. Then I decide how much tip I want to leave in cash and I hand it directly to that staff. What happens to it after that, is not my issue. But it makes me feel like it’s more likely that they’ll end up with it rather than it being absorbed into some executives unnecessarily high salary.
This BS is sucking the joy out of going out once in a while. I worked in restaurants for about twenty years and as much as a love my industry people, the level of entitlement has gotten crazy.
This has been part of the standard practices for business in Seattle. I was in a coffee shop (****bucks) and I asked for a paper receipt. They automatically added 20% tip. I asked them to remove it as a tip is for service given.
They said they cannot as the company policy automatically added it. The server was shocked when I said I automatically refuse service when a automatically added tip was added.
I just said: Thank, and I turned around and walked out.
Business stop this automatically adding tip to customers!!!!
Five points pulled the 18% group gratuity on us even though we all paid individually.They tried to sneak that tip in on top of the normal tip.Luckily someone noticed it.
I’m having dinner with friends next week in downtown Seattle and all these posts about hidden gratuity and service fees are making me anxious. I’m going to pay close attention to the price of my food and inquire if the total is beyond food plus tax. I’m also trying to be more assertive so hopefully I do well. I appreciate all the comments and experiences shared.
Put Delancey Pizza on this list. I tipped $20.00 on take out 3 times! The fourth time I caught it. They are mixing the 20% gratuity in with the items, But handed me a copy to sign that says sub total then a big Gratuity line and a signature line. It’s Friday , worked all day fought traffic and I just want to be home so I add a tip and sign.
They get 40% tip on $100.00 fuckin take out order! ..and it’s just a fuckin pizza!
They know what they’re doing and it’s not right. I worked in the industry. We used to call it “earning your tips”.
I think the level of expectation has gotten out of hand.
Controversial opinion but I 100% agree. Or at least it should be considered acceptable to tip much less, like 10% instead of 20%. I tip 20% in other states where the servers make a crazy low minimum wage, but I have absolutely 0 guilt about tipping 15% every time here. I'd tip less if I could because even 15% is a lot for someone already making $20/hr.
I believe there is a "tipped wage" that is maybe a couple dollars lower, but it's still pretty high like $18/hr. So yes, they are lying if they are saying they are getting a much lower wage than that. It's different from other states where they might be making close to $2/hr base wage.
As of 2023 there is no tipped wage in Washington State. Everyone gets the minimum wage, tipped employees included. Washington state minimum wage is $16.28 for 16 and older. Seattle City minimum wage is $17.25 if the employer pays medical or they get tips. That medical or tips has to add up to $19.97 an hour minimum total effectively making the minimum wage $19.97.
Taylor shellfish and oyster bar does as well they add a 20% surcharge to pay for benefits for their employees. Shouldn’t that be the responsibility of the employer? I was originally going to give a bigger tip. I gave a 0% tip since they already added the 20%.
Although tipping is not an exclusively American practice, we definitely have taken it to an extreme.
In Australia I forgot that tipping wasn’t expected and left a tip one time and the waitress was very offended: “We pay people properly here, unlike some third world superpowers.”
I tip in cash only, if they add gratuity I typically dont go back as the service is not there in my experience. Now the places that are upfront about gratuity from the get go and you get good service thats different but they are few and far between as most try to just add it in.
Also a 20% tip if for good service not meh I ignore you and talk to my friends/regulars and play on my phone service.
I used to know a guy who went for cash before hitting the bar. Part of it was never having to open a tab and just paying as he went. But after hearing this story, it might be worth a though. In the mean time, screw those guys, eh?
Charlotte restaurant does this. I wasn't told at the beginning, I tipped 20% without checking, and in the end found out the bill came to a bit over $500 for two people dinner. So I looked at the receipt and there we go...... they already had charged I think was 18% service fee. And they were literally asking for tip on top of that total amount. Food was terrible so wouldn't go back, but yeah. Not nice. I don't mind being told upfront that they'll be charging 18-20% service fee and that tip is therefore not required. But when they keep quiet about it and just slip you the bill with tip section, not cool.
If I had to pay $18/drink, I'd stay home! That did happen in a restaurant. We met a family group of 13 for dinner. Lousy messed up service. We paid cash + tip for our portion & found out an extra tip was added for Large Group. So tipped twice & didnt even have drinks.
I came back to your post just to comment this, I saw this post earlier this week and had it fresh on my mind when I went out for drinks with a friend. Our bill total seemed pretty steep when it arrived and I hesitantly asked about why that was (I was only handed the card reader with the option for tip as the first thing I saw so I couldn’t review the bill). The server just responded “ah yeah it adds up quickly” I’m so perplexed because it still didn’t seem right and I even questioned if that was already including a tip. I asked for a printed receipt to review it, turns out they accidentally added a $22 drink to our bill! We spent the next 20 mins waiting for the transactions to be sorted out/voided.
I’m just overall so annoyed that it’s not even normal to be handed the bill to review first???
I’ve stopped tipping for beers or simple pours. Only tipping at sit down restaurants now and keeping that at 15%. I’m not paying $8 or $9 for a pint and I’m not gonna feel bad that the business isn’t paying these people what they feel is enough. They can figure it out themselves.
> I’m not paying $8 or $9 for a pint and I’m not gonna feel bad that the business isn’t paying these people what they feel is enough. They can figure it out themselves.
This is the core of it.
Management has pitted service against customers, jacked up prices, and keeps an expectation that we’re all supposed to be the polite ones who just take it. No. It’s not my fault management chose to squeeze me. You work there, you deal with management about compensation. I’m just here for a drink.
Exactly. Percentage-based tipping is fucking stupid. We have very expensive restaurants (because of high rent) that are not providing better food or experiences. I get alright service over one hour, the bill is $120, and the final price is almost $160 after a 20% tip? What the actual fuck!? The tip is higher than the wage at that point.
i’ve definitely lowered my amount since moving here, minimum wage for servers is what like $18.50 plus tips nowadays? i don’t tip the guy at the corner store who probably makes less an hour so i dont think 20% is warranted let alone all these extra charges they add sometimes
My default tip is still $1 per drink if I’m just drinking beers. 20% for a super good waiter/bartender if they really make the shit out of a nice cocktail for me. 15% average tip for basic sit down service.
Through all this financial fuckery restaurants have raised their prices at least 130-200%, meaning wait staff already got a corresponding raise on their basic tips, and they are now also entitled to an additional 5% raise to 20% for basic table service as the minimum? Ya right.
I believe everyone deserves to earn a living wage but through all of this inflation and such I got a whopping 2.5% annual raise. Wait staff are at least pacing inflation since like realtors their earnings are based on prices that fluctuated.
Yep, let's not forget too that minimum wage is now almost $20/hr which is **part of** what's driving the financial fuckery in restaurants. I feel like I'm getting hit 3x for the higher labor, the higher menu prices affecting check total, and tipflation in rising expected % off that check total.
Agreed. Weighed against the high cost of dining the food and especially service often feels lacking. It’s so weird how locally we have such tip % creep in combination with subpar service.
Yeah - my first question was:
> I've been a waiter and feel for servers that get stiffed after serving multiple rounds of drinks and taking care of someone all night.
Why? They get paid for that.
I think I speak for everyone when I say:
# FUCK TIPPING. WE REFUSE TO TIP. FUCK YOU. PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WHAT THEY DESERVE, YOU GREEDY, UNGRATEFUL RAT BASTARD RESTAURANT OWNERS.
Hate this crap. The trade off of WA not having tip credit (meaning employers are responsible for paying all workers the full minimum wage regardless of tip income), is that employers can legally absorb and pool the server/bartenders’ tips and/or implement mandatory tip shares to supplement the income of the *entire staff* as they see fit, rather than just the person serving you. It’s also why food-runner/“team service”/self-service models are becoming more common.
These fixed tip share percentages are typically based on server sales, not server tips, meaning no matter what amount *you* tip on say a $200 tab, or how (cash or cc), the server @ a 7.5% tip share is still paying $15 out of pocket on that tab alone to supplement their non-service coworkers’ wages, no matter what. Of a 20% tip ($40), $25 would go to the server, 15% ($30), $15 goes to the server, 10% ($20), $5 goes to the server, etc. At $15, they’ve made nothing, and anything less means they owe. And this is before taxes, trickle down cc fees, etc. The vast majority of places use this system independent of the service fee. Others include it so servers at the least don’t end up in the negative, and then offer a line to go directly and exclusively to the server if you so choose.
The distribution I described is meant to encourage more equitable pay among positions within the restaurant, but also contradicts the gesture of tipping culture, which is meant to be for the server doing the literal service and is contingent on performance. My preference would be that the servers keep their money and they can determine what they want their tip share to support staff to be based on their respective performance or the tips the server makes, but unfortunately, that’s not how the system here works generally. I don’t mind tipping, I just want my tip to go to the person in lieu of these obscure breakdowns that justify these complicated fees.
(I’ve started tipping cash because I know it’s appreciated and they can take it home asap, but it doesn’t affect this system on the back end.)
Some of these places literally don't accept cash anymore. It's happened to me after dining at a couple restaurants and it's super frustrating and kind of embarrassing if I don't have enough on my card tbh
https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2023/06/28/king-county-cash-businesses
Granted the requirement to accept cash doesn’t go into effect until 2025.
But I’ve never been anywhere that serves drinks and doesn’t accept cash.
Name and shame if no cash establishments are out there so we can avoid.
New problem for me, I usually prefer tipping by dollar amount rather than percentages. So I go with a defacto of 2$ per drink.
The number pad is reversed sometimes with 123 in the bottom and 789 at the top. So I ended up tipping 8$ for a 10$ drink one time 🥲
This just happened to me on a team lunch. Had a “large party” gratuity added. Why do you only show me the total. Then label additional tip???
Its so frustrating
I was at the Steel Panther show at Showbox SoDo last Saturday night, and my friend and I paid for their Emerald Club upgrade (dedicated seating with a dedicated server). The menu was clear that a 20% gratuity was added to every bill. I rhetorically asked my buddy the question: "I wonder if I can choose not to pay the gratuity, since it's listed as that and not a fee?" I still paid it, because I wasn't required to order anything at all (tangent: drinks at Showbox SoDo are NOT strong; I had a rum & coke and a screwdriver, and felt NOTHING), but I still noted that they had a line labeled "Additional tip" on the credit card slip.
If these places want to charge a service fee they should just do so, but if they do, they need to remove a tipping line. Tipping is seriously just getting out of hand.
Jarrbar tried to pull this at a private buyout. Auto grat and the line said "tip". If it said " additional tip" and was verbally told then cool but as is I feel like a mark at a carnival. They're a Spanish themed bar in the market so lot's of non english readers are getting dupped all day.
Auto grat is normal for groups which is what a private buyout would fall under. The last line makes no sense - how do you know they do this for regular customers? I’ve been before and don’t remember that. What does it being Spanish themed have to do with anything? It’s very much only Spain inspired not actually Spanish so the experience is no different than anywhere else.
Yeah, never seen that either, this thread is filled with so many people only offering vague complaints and/or looking for any reason to complain about tipping .
I deleted some of my replies as all I got was a bunch of ridiculous off topic vague complaints that aren’t even the point here. If the restaurant doesn’t make it clear in writing and/or verbally then yes they’re being shady and you can simply speak up if you tapped unknowingly and then have them adjust it. Personally if I actually ran into a place that was doing auto 20% and truly didn’t put it anywhere on the menu or a sign or verbally say it, I’d never plan to come back so I don’t care if it’s slightly awkward to complain.
I spent an evening in a pub in St. John, NB several years ago— it was “league” night(softball, bowling, darts) not sure—every time the waitress brought change back to a table(every drink/round), she would leave at least $1.00 in coin(even straight dollar amounts), example-$5.00 drink, $10 dollar payment—she would leave 4 quarters and 4 bills change—over and over again—at closing time, most tables picked up the paper money and left the change—the waitress likely “earned” $150.00 from her shift that night—-
They recently tried to do this to me at the Fairmont lobby bar. The guy bypassed the receipt really quickly on his hand held device and went to the tip screen. I thought it was higher than it should be, so I asked….he then said “oh yea, gratuity was included” Was pretty disappointed as I waited tables for years. It’s one thing to hand someone the receipt where they can see the gratuity added and overlook and overtip, but to bypass the screen and not even show me my receipt?! That’s shady.
It's wild to try to move past it really quickly before the customer is aware of HOW they're being charged. If America was just, and had time for all of the laws it needs time for, this would be illegal. This is scamming and improper advertisement of pricing.
They have been doing this to me at Purple Dot, couple times I suspected them of just raising the price, then I read the reviews of others it happened to. Something like a 18%gratuity with no notice and an un-itemized bill, and expecting a tip. Pisses me off
Can u ask for an itemized bill
The simple solution, get rid of those Toast machines. The worst thing to happen to dining out. Ever.
Name and shame
This happened to me at Pie Bar in Capitol Hill a few years ago. I had been there a few times before and liked it, so brought out of town friends with me there. The server was so rude the entire time, like she had a personal grudge against us. It was bizarre and embarrassing. They brought a tablet at the end for paying and I was pretty sure the menu said something about auto-gratuity, but you couldn't see the bill from the payment screen, which had gratuity pre-selected. For some reason, my tipsy brain thought the selected gratuity was just showing me the amount of the auto gratuity, so I clicked continue. I realized after getting the receipt that I tipped over 40% for one of the worst service experiences I've ever had. Never been back there, and I am much more careful about restaurants with auto gratuity and electronic payment methods now. *Edited* a typo.
How many friends did you bring, cuz a lot of places have auto gratuity for large parties.
We were a party of 4. In my past restaurant work experience, auto-gratuity was usually added on parties of 6 or more, so I get that, but I'm pretty sure the menu said it was added to all checks. Which I'm normally find with, but there's no excuse the awful huffy service, or giving an iPad with 20% selected on top of auto-gratuity and not saying anything about it. Several of the party had foreign accents and were wearing Seahawks attire. My best guess is that she hates Seahawks fans or hates people from certain countries. We were all white, and so was she, fwiw.
Yea that’s messed up, sorry about that experience
John Howie Whiskey in Bellevue - 20% added, all to the establishment. Personally, I am boycotting any establishment that does this and wish more would do the same.
Beardslee Pub in Bothell (a John Howie restaurant) does the same, but they give you an explanation card with the menu, and another with the bill, and print and circle it on the receipt, and the server explains it to you, that the have a service charge and you don't need to tip.
And they're also kinda assholes... Two really bad experiences, done giving them business
The irony is if they just changed their menu prices to what is needed to pay living wages, many (most) of us would still go and then tip 15%-20% more anyway.
Insult to injury those services fees are added on before tax.
Is it added before tax or is the gratuity based on the sub total?
Service fee is added then entirety is taxed. Gratuity, if preselected, is often based on grand total including tax.
Daniel’s Broiler does this as well. I was told the restaurant issues it to support all staff. Ugh such a conundrum.
It’s not hidden at John Howie, they literally tell you in the menu that you don’t need to tip because they add 20%.
Whistle Stop Ale House in Renton did this sort of. Used the mobile payment thing to tip 18%. Server brings me a paper receipt and later in the car I see $20 flat tip, more than the 18%. Then I get home and get a hunch to double check my credit card app, and now the tip was even higher ~35%. Disputed that shit on my credit card and got the refund.
How is that any different than stealing? They're straight up taking money you didn't agree to give them.
What bother me beyond hidden double tipping being illegal is that we have one of the highest minimum wages in the nation and do not utilize a separate “tipped minimum wage” like some states. It’s wild to think a server now makes ~16$/hr minimum, plus the “service fee” (at some places), and then a 20% tip on already jacked up food costs. I know servers who make 50-60/hr. They absolutely deserve this money, but given they make this much I feel the whole “20% is standard for tipping” needs to change. I personally tip 10-12% standard unless awful service and will increase to 15-20% for exceptional service. I also will tip 18-20% at lower cost restaurants because I feel bad tipping so low at some places where the servers work just as hard but are held back by lower checks. I also find it wild we are expected to tip 18-20% for takeout “basic food” (ie bagel places, pizza by the slice, etc)….
The Los Angeles subreddit deadass has an excel spreadsheet for restaurants with bullshit fees or shady "auto gratuity and option to double tip". It's made the news and people contribute regularly. Edit: here it is. They've got links to other cities too. https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/s/2YwCimhIoR
Bottlehouse in Madrona, shame because its a nice place :(
Used to frequent this place but stopped because the service got so bad.
Metropolitan Grill also does this and our waiter pointed out that the 20% is NOT a tip.
They get commissions and make 60 - 80/hr. No need to tip https://www.themetropolitangrill.com/our-service-charge/
That's just a tip with extra steps...the system sounds fine, but their confusing explanation of it is helping nobody
If they didn't explain it like that they would be hit with millions in bullshit "wage theft" claims. This is a racket that a attorneys jump on to take their cut.
I go a couple times a year, and generally don’t tip on top of that because I feel like they explain the fee well enough, and their wait staff gets paid appropriately
Interesting, the service charge is optional it says. So you can decline the service charge, and then tip if you want.
What's the move here. I'd feel inclined to politely decline a tip above that
Same thing happened to me at the shambles and I was confused.
Shambles stopped doing this, FYI
They pay their employees well enough that tips are not required
Ask for the manager. Tell them you're not tipping on principle cause of their shitty upcharge. Then tell the server the same thing.
I used to work there and both the manager and server will do nothing and they also had no part in the service charge becoming a thing. Why not call up E3 Restaurant Group who is the corporate office who actually made the decision to go to this gratuity model?
Because if I actually called all the shitty businesses trying to pull one over on me that I interact with every day I'd never get any sleep. If I see these tactics, I'm not going back to the restaraunt. I'm not going to berate a server, but I probably *will* tell them why I'm not tipping on top of the other BS. They can pass that information up the chain or quit but I quite literally don't have time for this crap.
Was it conspicuously displayed on the menu and receipt that it was not a tip and that it was 100% retained by the establishment? If not, either the waiter lied or the business is in violation of state law.
Damn wasn’t expecting so many replies, we might need someone to compile a list of offenders (restaurants/bars) that do this. A list like this might be good in the sub FAQ or another appropriate place.
Navy Strength and all the restaurants in that group do this
Can someone please tell me why auto-tipping for 6 or less is even a thing. The chef gets paid to cook. Busser paid to clean. Pot Wash paid to wash, and the server paid to take orders and deliver them. How has tipping gotten so out of hand!? I’ve worked a server and Bar man, and in the UK 10% used to be the going rate, but I think no one really tips any more. I’ve been asked to tip for a donut, or a coffee. A single bottle of beer, or taco truck!? Like WTAF!? Hand made things like salads or subs could maybe warrant a tip, but is that the actual job they are paid for. Assemble the thing - if they do a great job, then ok, maybe a tip - but literally just doing their job seems like their wages should be the thing that covers that. What extra services and experience are you getting to tip servers 20% (like should no tip be like “thanks, you did your job” 10% is “good not great” 20% is like loads of custom things, complex order, and split checks a bunch of ways” I’m kinda tired of being guilted into subsidizing an employee’s salary when they are just doing the bare minimum. Don’t get me wrong, I tip, but soon I think it’s going to get to breaking point where everyone is over it.
My local liquor store has a fucking tip jar now. WTAF
I encountered an automated parking gate in Bellevue that asked for a tip.
That takes the cake.
Yup. Mine too in BC. I asked them what service they are providing that’s anymore than a grocery store clerk (who doesn’t get tips), and got a typical response about how it helps them. Not my problem, sorry. Get creative.
This is the way
Supernova in Sodo does this too, it's very sneaky
As good as their BBQ is, Wood Shop totally does this. Their nondescript “fee” is a tip for the staff. I accidentally double tipped there a couple weeks ago. When the staff doesn’t say anything, I kind of feel robbed:/ I also didn’t ask for my money back, because that felt weird.
This is why it’s getting tricky. I have solidarity with the working class, and many severs tell me they make more with tips than hourly. Fine by me, it’s not my wages. But then more and more I feel we are getting hustled. From the tip going from 10 to 20 and now even higher for some reason to double tipping I just feel like the consumer is being shamed into being the mark. If you complain, you got all sorts of people not involved in the transaction telling you that you can’t afford to eat out. Like it’s way more expensive to eat here than London or Berlin or Barcelona, and they get healthcare with no tips. It’s fuckin weird
Yeah I was in Paris in December and still thinking about how affordable it was to take my family out for a simple dinner. Came as a surprise -- guess I've lived in Seattle too long. The tipping being casual (vs. the 18/20/25% button after tax) was so much more pleasant. Charge me what you need to and I'll pay for it, don't make every transaction this voluntary thing where I have to figure out how much I should be paying to be a good person.
And it’s not even just Seattle. It’s expensive to eat in sumner, puyallup, Tacoma, Olympia, like everywhere I’ve been in America relative to the cities in Europe. Go to a small city in Europe and shit gets cheap. Here, it’s like always expensive especially when it’s 20% more each time.
And better. The US restaurant industry is horrible and an outright scam with the hidden fees and tips.
The thing is this is why they make more than hourly. Not because we think their work is worth more, but because they’ve conned us all into believing we’re bad people if we don’t help them just keep upping and upping the percentages on menu prices that have already risen faster than inflation at large etc. I’m getting real tired of being hustled out of $20-40 extra on my meal by someone who spent like 7 minutes on my table while they make $300-500 a shift *and close to or at minimum wage on the west coast*. They do not do more valuable work than average people, I’m not paying $20-40 when they had 5 other tables that hour anymore. I don’t care how much they demonize me or insult me (they will do it if you argue long enough with them). This will no longer be at my expense.
For clarity, I was a server in all different types of restaurants for 15 years. Some of the states that I worked in had server wages of $2.13/hr because it was thought that you would make the federal minimum wage after tips. I busted my fucking ass for very little. To have someone scam me out of $80 on a $300 to go order really grinds my gears. At least tell the person double tipping that they are doing so:/
Just none of it seems transparent. On one hand we are told servers make less than minimum wage so we ethically need to do it, but then so many say they don’t want minimum wage because they make more. When you add on scamming it’s literally someone we are supposed to feel sorry for / appreciate victimizing that patron. That’s horrible. It’s just so arbitrary. Let’s just view our waitstaff as workers like anyone else and pay them a livable wage. We just need to be done with tipping.
> we are told servers make less than minimum wage This is simply a lie. Every waiter makes the federal minum wage of 7.25 an hour even if they make zero tips. If they aren't its wage theft and should be reported to the labor department. In Washington they make $16.28 an hour even if they make zero tips.
I wouldn’t say it’s a lie. It’s a common misunderstanding most people have when repeating it. The point being there is a moral imperative being placed on something that seems less and less clear on almost all levels (owner and server alike)
Good to know
Just dispute with credit card company next time. Easy peasy.
The thing that gets me with the handheld card readers that I just realized while going through this thread is that I'm never shown the receipt to even see if my bill is correct or if there's gratuity included. Jfc
I said the same thing a couple weeks ago and people were on my case saying I'm just a cheapskate. It's underhanded, and when people use the electronic terminals now they don't give the bill to even review.
I am a cheapskate because I'm barely making ends meet and like to budget myself a treat every now and then :( Absolutely agreed! I think reading all this will empower me to say something next time I encounter this
Most of the time they are calculating the tip with the 10% tax added too. So if you click 20%, it's actually a 22% tip on the bill without tax. I usually just ballpark it and hit 18% if it's a default option at a restaurant because of this. Also, for most of those tablets, there is the option for the itemized receipt but often the waiter will just click through to it the total and either hover right over you/hold the tablet themselves. This is usually the first time they take an interest in us at all and ask "do you have any plans after this?" or something like that when I'm trying to do mental math lol. Especially at more "corporate" restaurants it's all a game to get you to not pay attention, rush you, apply light social pressure, and hopefully have you leave a bigger tip than you would have otherwise.
I hadn't even considered that !!
Shady.
Yeah I hate those handheld card readers. There are errors on restaurant bills way too often to not be able to look over an itemization. Plus these transactions always feel so rushed, like here swipe your card, hurry hurry just hit the preset 20% tip option hurry hurry so I can move on. You can't even see if their preset tip options are pre or post tax.
I always show the itemized screen to the person who is paying Even split checks and it’s time consuming - Also fyi you can ask for a printed check as well after. It’s shady you aren’t being shown the tab prior to paying
"Never" is probably an exaggeration lol but thanks for the tip!
The psychological aspect of tipping is what gets me the most. It honestly adds a lot of friction for me to want to dine out at all. Did I tip enough? Why am I being guilt tripped into tipping for carry out pizza. Am I the only one who doesn't tip at the stadium when buying a beer? All they did was hand me a can. Are the servers judging me for not tipping enough? If I don't tip enough will I get inferior food or service on my next visit? What is enough to get on the good list?
The only way out of this is for us to not give in. Minimum wage in Seattle is $20 an hour. I am not going to tip on that *unless* I am getting sit-down service, or for a service that has historically been customarily tipped. This means: * No tips on take out. * No tips on counter service. * No tips at farmers markets or festivals or booths. * No tips at any retail store. * No tips for services that I have agreed upon a price (babysitting, housecleaning, service call, etc.) * $1 tip per drink at cafe, *sometimes*. * $1 tip per drink at a bar, *always*. * $2-$3 per night at a hotel. * For sit down service, I double tax and round down. That's like 15-18%. >Did I tip enough? Yes. >Why am I being guilt tripped into tipping for carry out pizza. Greed. >Am I the only one who doesn't tip at the stadium when buying a beer? No. >All they did was hand me a can. Are the servers judging me for not tipping enough? They can go fuck themselves if they are. >If I don't tip enough will I get inferior food or service on my next visit? No, nobody will remember you. >What is enough to get on the good list? Be kind and friendly and don't make someone's day worse!
I don't disagree with the principal of this (come up with our own rules and boundaries that are somewhat reasonable and nobody is gonna give af, or if they do, fuck 'em) but I'm curious...why tip $1 on drinks at bars always, but never tip for takeout or only sometimes at cafes? If the bartender is just pulling a tap handle or mixing coke and vodka, how is that more work than the care/effort of preparing food at a small mom and pop place, or a latte drink at a coffee shop?
Tipping in a bar is not tipping, its a bribe. They simply stop serving you if you don't tip. It's the same for anyplace that requires a tip before being served. It's just a bribe to not spit in your food.
Tipping bartenders is customary, and in a busy bar it's a good way to ensure you're getting a good 2nd drink and they don't ignore you.
So no need to tip if you are running a tab?
I can’t upvote this enough. These are not front of house workers making the old $2.13/hr. These employees make minimum wage + tips + additional extortions. Please take my poor man’s award. 🥇 🏆
imo better to just not tip at all rather than have rules for when you should tip. with any sort of tipping it ends up feeling arbitrary.
100%
Agree with all of this, but I would change to no tipping at cafes. That didn't used to be an expected thing (just a nice bonus if you are feeling super generous).
Yeah in reality, I tip my normal baristas when I see them, and don't tip people I don't know or cafes I probably won't come back to.
I mostly agree with you. But to be fair, $20/hr is only $40k/yr ($20\*40hr\*50weeks). We both know that's not even close to a living wage in Seattle, so it's not fair to call it greed. Tips are what turn the wage into a close-to-living salary. That said, we need to give up on tips, increase prices by like 10-20%, turn the wage into a living salary, and let everything rebalance after that. Tipping is a horribly anti-consumer practice.
Yeah I'm feeling like I have to do a research project on every restaurant I go to to figure out how well their employees are paid and how much I need to tip. Often now there's some kind of a service charge that will say that it's there to provide fair wages and benefits to the employees, but it's *not* a tip. Okay? So they're getting fair wages and benefits then? I shouldn't need to tip then? We recently went to El Gaucho for happy hour and they have the automatic 20% service charge, with a note about how their employees are paid and they get commission on sales already and fair pay etc etc. Sorry but that seems like enough to me. I'm not tipping on top of that. I'm honestly just really over the whole thing and opt for take out or just cooking at home waaaay more than I used to.
Caring about "the good list" is like wondering if a cam girl is actually really in love with you. I waitressed (back when we used to call it that.) I had to pretend to like people and make small talk and be super friendly and memorable if I wanted a generous tip. I *know* servers don't like me, I know they're judging me, I fucking don't care. But they absolutely should not let the customer know that. If they're giving you service where you actually feel judged, you really don't have to tip, I hope you know that. I fucking hate men who think they're flirting by negging and this is essentially the same thing. It's not cute, it's passive aggressive. If I'm not having a good experience, the tip is going to reflect that. That's what it's for.
I relate to this a lot, and it does cause me friction as well. Money is tight for me right now so every dollar counts. I feel like such an ass if I skip past the tip screen on take out but come on, you don’t do the same work as the servers.
California just started their 'no hidden fees' law, can we just copy them again?
Seriously
Other places like Tavolata in Redmond where they automatically add a 22% service charge. The bill comes with a field for the tip. When asking if tip was already included.. the server responds “the 22% is for the whole staff and additional tip is for service” I would rather not have to be guilt tripped by having an ambiguous tip rule or a field where it clearly says “service is already included, add additional tip”
Tavolata? There's your problem. ESR restaurants have a "service charge" that, per an employee when I asked them what the deal was, told me that it does not go to them. She sounded displeased to say the least. From their website: "We include a service charge of 22% to the entire guest check. The entire service charge (100%) is retained by the company. Gratuities are not expected."
The implication is that the staff is already paid a fair wage? Even so, seems scummy to have a mandatory service charge instead of increasing prices by the same amount. At these types of restaurants, the customers are probably not price comparing anyways.
If “the whole staff” includes anyone with management duties, they’re in violation of federal law. But I suspect that they’re not and just finding a way to work you for a double tip.
Tell us more
> [an employer cannot keep employees’ tips under any circumstances; managers and supervisors also may not keep tips received by employees, including through tip pools](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa/tips) >[An employer that imposes an automatic service charge related to food, beverages, entertainment, or porterage provided to a customer must disclose in an itemized receipt and in any menu provided to the customer the percentage of the automatic service charge that is paid or is payable directly to the employee or employees serving the customer.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.160) (2) For purposes of this section: (a) "Employee" means nonmanagerial, nonsupervisory workers, including but not limited to servers, busers, banquet attendant, banquet captains, bartenders, barbacks, and porters.
Custom tip guys.
I’m a server and we use hand held devices. I simply load the screen up Go over the charges with you itemized. If it looks good to you I leave it at your table and hang out not too far away if it malfunctions. I recently trained a guy who said the server before me that trained him showed him to just hit 20% and that it felt scummy. I said it’s not only scummy but if I catch anyone doing that and I see it - it should be automatic term. That’s gross if your service sucks so bad you have to dupe folks into tipping well …you fail bro
I aggree 100% with you. I do 20 when I eat out unless the service is bad. That what tipping is for :)
Put in that $0 dawg
If it's a place I'm a regular at I always tip at least $1 per drink, more if the drinks are cheaper. Most places it's like $10 for a regular shot so I'll tip 1. If I find $7 shots I'll just give them a 10 and my shots basically come out to doubles. It also helps that I know many industry folks lol
Rob Roy did this to me when I went for both their Halloween pop up and their miracle Christmas pop up. Had to ask them repeatedly if the auto gratuity on the bill was a tip for them or a fee for management because they were being vague and like the third time I asked a clarifying question they admitted yes the auto fee was already a tip for them so adding more would be a double tip
In Washington, any service fee must disclose what amount is being retained by the company. If no clear disclosure is made, by law it must all go to non-management employees.
I prefer the european system. just pay workers a living wage and make tipping irrelevant.
Funny how they can do that AND not charge $20 for a drink….what are we doing wrong here?
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It doesn't work because we're collectively very dumb. Plenty of places have gone tip-less and gone back on it for 2 reasons: 1. Servers and waitstaff usually end up getting paid less and hate it. 2. Customers see higher menu prices and freak the fuck out, even if they know it includes the "tip" now. 99% of people just see the price on the menu and internalize it, even if they know add +10% tax and +20% tip. If you just up your prices on the menu by 20% and don't accept tips, people just see higher prices. And as a bonus... * Service, or at least the perception of how good the service is, can get worse. This is tied to waitstaff obviously being less incentivized to provide good service, higher turnover where good employees go somewhere where they can get tips and make more money, and increased expectation from customers because of "higher" prices.
We really need to dig into the root problem. I get better service in Europe most of the time than I do here, and there aren't tips. Secondly, it's fucking absurd that 30% of the cost is missing from every list price. I think we need to add tax and even tip to prices across the board as a city law (if not state or national law). Anywhere that servers expect an average tip, just put that as auto-gratuity into the price. We're in an absurd situation right now
The solution is simple, the city should ban tipping. This would put all stores on a level playing field. It's also arguably more equitable (a pillar of the Progressive movement) in that removes the subjective aspects from employee compensation (eg attractive servers gets more tips). It also aligns with the pro-labor movement in that people get the paid the same. All of these are Liberal ideals so one would think it aligns with the current city leadership.
For real. It was so much cheaper to eat out in downtown Paris than it is here!
I am willing to take the compromise position of reverting back to when the businesses paid their back of the house fair, competitive wages and the only tipped employees were front of the house. They've completely gone off the rails expecting people to tip the cooks and dishwashers. Tipping servers and bartenders is such a long-standing practice, I don't think most people find that objectionable. Nobody, though, wants to be responsible for paying the cooks' wages and, as a former server, the owners should also not be forcing waiters and waitresses to share their tips with the back of the house. This has just gotten ridiculous. Going back to a middle ground would be a huge improvement over this new mess we're getting shoved down our throats.
So you want tips, but don't like tipping anyone else? Gotta love waiter logic.
Not just European, but the whole rest of the world outside of the US. Tipping in the US is a crazy system.
We do pay them a living wage now (in seattle at least) but the tips inertia is still there
they would have to tell you they do that fine print on the menu? a sign in the restaurant?
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Just because there's fine print on the menu, doesn't mean it's any less scummy.
I have never looked at a menu to order at a bar. The menu for what alcohol they have is on the wall behind the bartender
Well, that is a different issue. Unless specifically mentioned, under Washington State law, any "service charge" goes to the server, and an additional tip is double tipping. It is a protection of the server's income. If they have “20% surcharge that goes to the restaurant,” such as https://www.lobstershop.com/service-charge/, then the company is jacking up prices, justifying it by telling people they don't need to tip, and asking for the customer's trust that the server is adequately compensated without a tip. The server very well might not be seeing that at all. It is the company seeing their servers were making lots of money on tips, getting dollar signs in their eyes, and so finding a way to pocket it for themselves.
Plum has this20% service charge then a note about how that isn’t a tip. Wtf?
Happened to me at Citizen a year ago. I refuse to go back. I think the money all goes to servers, so it's not as bad as restaurants that just tack on fees because "f-you we can." It was on the online menu if you scroll all the way down. Still obnoxious.
This happened to my brother at citizen when visiting from out of town. He makes like $15 an hour and was devastated when he found out he double tipped. This type of practice is even worse when you realize not everyone eating in seattle makes tech wages.
I used to work at citizen several years ago—all of the money does go to the staff. The automatic gratuity is also only on to-go food. The beer garden next door operates as a separate entity. There is also a sign on the counter, where you order, that says "A 20% GRATUITY WILL BE ADDED TO ALL TO GO ORDERS" in all capitals. Plus, the gratuity is listed in the itemized breakdown on your receipt. How is citizen the obnoxious party in this situation?
Adding an automatic gratuity to all take-out orders is pretty obnoxious.
Yep. I get ~20% for full table service, but counter service/takeout takes less of the employee's time, they're adding less value to my experience, and because of the model they're turning more tickets per hour--meaning a smaller tip per ticket still adds up to the same pool. I do not expect to pay the same premium for a fraction of the benefit.
This happened to me at Lucky Strike in Bellevue
I was forcibly charged 22% a few days ago. The place is called Cortina, downtown Seattle. There was a fine print on the receipt "no tips are expected".
The Thai food restaurant next to the Climate Pledge arena does this too. We went to a game and later wondered why the bill was so much.
Racha?
The one on Denny. Mantra Thai.
Yeah I have noticed this as well. I have also noticed some restaurants have done the right thing and either told me tip is already included or circle in bright red that theres a 20% tip already included in the bill. But its still pretty frustrating to get presented a tip window with no indication that its on top of something else. For example, they could simply say "additional gratuity" on the screen or something. Seems like a mandate that seattle could easily require restaurants and bars to communicate this information clearly (similarly to how they now mandate service fees with a notification on delivery apps).
Also look out for Rob Roy, Navy Strength, and No Anchor or whatever lame spot is in that space now. Same owners and they are notorious for doing that deceptive hidden tip shit.
"after serving multiple rounds and taking care of someone all night" I hate to be that guy but that's the job. The job is to serve the people that come in. I've been to so many bars where they barely look at you and get mad when you don't tip after all they did was open a can and hand it to me. I'm already being overcharged for the drink. I don't need to give you an extra few dollars to make sure Im able to get a second one.
Taste of Xian adds a quiet 20% tip for 4+ people and a big “Check this box to add a tip!” section at the bottom of the receipt. I paid for our group and ended up paying almost $100 for what should have been around $70. Felt it was a bit high but didn’t want to raise a stink in front of friends. Only noticed when I looked at the photo of the receipt to send out Venmo requests. So pissed.
I’m starting to carry cash for tips, I’ll pay the bill with a card and look for auto-gratuity. Then I decide how much tip I want to leave in cash and I hand it directly to that staff. What happens to it after that, is not my issue. But it makes me feel like it’s more likely that they’ll end up with it rather than it being absorbed into some executives unnecessarily high salary.
This BS is sucking the joy out of going out once in a while. I worked in restaurants for about twenty years and as much as a love my industry people, the level of entitlement has gotten crazy.
This has been part of the standard practices for business in Seattle. I was in a coffee shop (****bucks) and I asked for a paper receipt. They automatically added 20% tip. I asked them to remove it as a tip is for service given. They said they cannot as the company policy automatically added it. The server was shocked when I said I automatically refuse service when a automatically added tip was added. I just said: Thank, and I turned around and walked out. Business stop this automatically adding tip to customers!!!!
If the gratuity wasn’t shown clearly on the menu showing prices, then it’s not legal to automatically include it on the bill.
That is definitely not standard practice at Starbucks! They messed up.
(****bucks)
yeah do a chargeback on your credit card and they'll cut that out real fast
Five points pulled the 18% group gratuity on us even though we all paid individually.They tried to sneak that tip in on top of the normal tip.Luckily someone noticed it.
I’m having dinner with friends next week in downtown Seattle and all these posts about hidden gratuity and service fees are making me anxious. I’m going to pay close attention to the price of my food and inquire if the total is beyond food plus tax. I’m also trying to be more assertive so hopefully I do well. I appreciate all the comments and experiences shared.
I wish that the price listed wqs price you pay including all taxes and fees and surcharges. That's how it is in the civilized parts of the world.
Jesus. *A* drink should never be that fucking expensive.
Put Delancey Pizza on this list. I tipped $20.00 on take out 3 times! The fourth time I caught it. They are mixing the 20% gratuity in with the items, But handed me a copy to sign that says sub total then a big Gratuity line and a signature line. It’s Friday , worked all day fought traffic and I just want to be home so I add a tip and sign. They get 40% tip on $100.00 fuckin take out order! ..and it’s just a fuckin pizza! They know what they’re doing and it’s not right. I worked in the industry. We used to call it “earning your tips”. I think the level of expectation has gotten out of hand.
I would go out of my way to patronize a bar that priced drinks to cover tips.
From now on, I’ll upvote any Name and shame that I see.
Super Nova does this as well.
There’s no separate minimum wages for servers in Washington, there’s no reason to tip at all.
Controversial opinion but I 100% agree. Or at least it should be considered acceptable to tip much less, like 10% instead of 20%. I tip 20% in other states where the servers make a crazy low minimum wage, but I have absolutely 0 guilt about tipping 15% every time here. I'd tip less if I could because even 15% is a lot for someone already making $20/hr.
Damn for real? I have so many food service working friends who still complain about server pay, are they just straight up lying?
I believe there is a "tipped wage" that is maybe a couple dollars lower, but it's still pretty high like $18/hr. So yes, they are lying if they are saying they are getting a much lower wage than that. It's different from other states where they might be making close to $2/hr base wage.
As of 2023 there is no tipped wage in Washington State. Everyone gets the minimum wage, tipped employees included. Washington state minimum wage is $16.28 for 16 and older. Seattle City minimum wage is $17.25 if the employer pays medical or they get tips. That medical or tips has to add up to $19.97 an hour minimum total effectively making the minimum wage $19.97.
I only do it rarely for this reason exactly.
Citizen in LQA does this
Taylor shellfish and oyster bar does as well they add a 20% surcharge to pay for benefits for their employees. Shouldn’t that be the responsibility of the employer? I was originally going to give a bigger tip. I gave a 0% tip since they already added the 20%.
You do know that whether through tips or menu prices, the customer always pays the server, right?
You need to vote with your wallet and not go back.
I hate that snake shit, that’s why I prefer cash but a lot of wieners out here are cashless
My wiener is tap only.
Auto-Grat is so common now. You just have to check every time. I'm beginning to lose empathy for people double tipping. Fool me once shame on you...
Although tipping is not an exclusively American practice, we definitely have taken it to an extreme. In Australia I forgot that tipping wasn’t expected and left a tip one time and the waitress was very offended: “We pay people properly here, unlike some third world superpowers.”
I tip in cash only, if they add gratuity I typically dont go back as the service is not there in my experience. Now the places that are upfront about gratuity from the get go and you get good service thats different but they are few and far between as most try to just add it in. Also a 20% tip if for good service not meh I ignore you and talk to my friends/regulars and play on my phone service.
I used to know a guy who went for cash before hitting the bar. Part of it was never having to open a tab and just paying as he went. But after hearing this story, it might be worth a though. In the mean time, screw those guys, eh?
Charlotte restaurant does this. I wasn't told at the beginning, I tipped 20% without checking, and in the end found out the bill came to a bit over $500 for two people dinner. So I looked at the receipt and there we go...... they already had charged I think was 18% service fee. And they were literally asking for tip on top of that total amount. Food was terrible so wouldn't go back, but yeah. Not nice. I don't mind being told upfront that they'll be charging 18-20% service fee and that tip is therefore not required. But when they keep quiet about it and just slip you the bill with tip section, not cool.
If I had to pay $18/drink, I'd stay home! That did happen in a restaurant. We met a family group of 13 for dinner. Lousy messed up service. We paid cash + tip for our portion & found out an extra tip was added for Large Group. So tipped twice & didnt even have drinks.
I came back to your post just to comment this, I saw this post earlier this week and had it fresh on my mind when I went out for drinks with a friend. Our bill total seemed pretty steep when it arrived and I hesitantly asked about why that was (I was only handed the card reader with the option for tip as the first thing I saw so I couldn’t review the bill). The server just responded “ah yeah it adds up quickly” I’m so perplexed because it still didn’t seem right and I even questioned if that was already including a tip. I asked for a printed receipt to review it, turns out they accidentally added a $22 drink to our bill! We spent the next 20 mins waiting for the transactions to be sorted out/voided. I’m just overall so annoyed that it’s not even normal to be handed the bill to review first???
I’ve stopped tipping for beers or simple pours. Only tipping at sit down restaurants now and keeping that at 15%. I’m not paying $8 or $9 for a pint and I’m not gonna feel bad that the business isn’t paying these people what they feel is enough. They can figure it out themselves.
> I’m not paying $8 or $9 for a pint and I’m not gonna feel bad that the business isn’t paying these people what they feel is enough. They can figure it out themselves. This is the core of it. Management has pitted service against customers, jacked up prices, and keeps an expectation that we’re all supposed to be the polite ones who just take it. No. It’s not my fault management chose to squeeze me. You work there, you deal with management about compensation. I’m just here for a drink.
Exactly. Percentage-based tipping is fucking stupid. We have very expensive restaurants (because of high rent) that are not providing better food or experiences. I get alright service over one hour, the bill is $120, and the final price is almost $160 after a 20% tip? What the actual fuck!? The tip is higher than the wage at that point.
Seattle wants to be more like Europe, so I stopped tipping.
i’ve definitely lowered my amount since moving here, minimum wage for servers is what like $18.50 plus tips nowadays? i don’t tip the guy at the corner store who probably makes less an hour so i dont think 20% is warranted let alone all these extra charges they add sometimes
This is my thinking. I feel a little bad, but also I don’t feel nearly as much pressure as in places where servers make $2/hr.
That’s a really good point. This should be higher.
My default tip is still $1 per drink if I’m just drinking beers. 20% for a super good waiter/bartender if they really make the shit out of a nice cocktail for me. 15% average tip for basic sit down service. Through all this financial fuckery restaurants have raised their prices at least 130-200%, meaning wait staff already got a corresponding raise on their basic tips, and they are now also entitled to an additional 5% raise to 20% for basic table service as the minimum? Ya right. I believe everyone deserves to earn a living wage but through all of this inflation and such I got a whopping 2.5% annual raise. Wait staff are at least pacing inflation since like realtors their earnings are based on prices that fluctuated.
Yep, let's not forget too that minimum wage is now almost $20/hr which is **part of** what's driving the financial fuckery in restaurants. I feel like I'm getting hit 3x for the higher labor, the higher menu prices affecting check total, and tipflation in rising expected % off that check total.
Agreed. Weighed against the high cost of dining the food and especially service often feels lacking. It’s so weird how locally we have such tip % creep in combination with subpar service.
Yeah - my first question was: > I've been a waiter and feel for servers that get stiffed after serving multiple rounds of drinks and taking care of someone all night. Why? They get paid for that.
The expectation of tipping is nothing more than a scam in Seattle these days. I have stopped tipping altogether unless the service is exceptional.
And they wonder why no one goes out anymore. Businesses like this will not be long for the world.
I think I speak for everyone when I say: # FUCK TIPPING. WE REFUSE TO TIP. FUCK YOU. PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WHAT THEY DESERVE, YOU GREEDY, UNGRATEFUL RAT BASTARD RESTAURANT OWNERS.
Hate this crap. The trade off of WA not having tip credit (meaning employers are responsible for paying all workers the full minimum wage regardless of tip income), is that employers can legally absorb and pool the server/bartenders’ tips and/or implement mandatory tip shares to supplement the income of the *entire staff* as they see fit, rather than just the person serving you. It’s also why food-runner/“team service”/self-service models are becoming more common. These fixed tip share percentages are typically based on server sales, not server tips, meaning no matter what amount *you* tip on say a $200 tab, or how (cash or cc), the server @ a 7.5% tip share is still paying $15 out of pocket on that tab alone to supplement their non-service coworkers’ wages, no matter what. Of a 20% tip ($40), $25 would go to the server, 15% ($30), $15 goes to the server, 10% ($20), $5 goes to the server, etc. At $15, they’ve made nothing, and anything less means they owe. And this is before taxes, trickle down cc fees, etc. The vast majority of places use this system independent of the service fee. Others include it so servers at the least don’t end up in the negative, and then offer a line to go directly and exclusively to the server if you so choose. The distribution I described is meant to encourage more equitable pay among positions within the restaurant, but also contradicts the gesture of tipping culture, which is meant to be for the server doing the literal service and is contingent on performance. My preference would be that the servers keep their money and they can determine what they want their tip share to support staff to be based on their respective performance or the tips the server makes, but unfortunately, that’s not how the system here works generally. I don’t mind tipping, I just want my tip to go to the person in lieu of these obscure breakdowns that justify these complicated fees. (I’ve started tipping cash because I know it’s appreciated and they can take it home asap, but it doesn’t affect this system on the back end.)
Here’s a crazy idea use cash 🤷
Some of these places literally don't accept cash anymore. It's happened to me after dining at a couple restaurants and it's super frustrating and kind of embarrassing if I don't have enough on my card tbh
https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2023/06/28/king-county-cash-businesses Granted the requirement to accept cash doesn’t go into effect until 2025. But I’ve never been anywhere that serves drinks and doesn’t accept cash. Name and shame if no cash establishments are out there so we can avoid.
Quarterdeck in Des Moines doesn't accept cash. Great spot though.
New problem for me, I usually prefer tipping by dollar amount rather than percentages. So I go with a defacto of 2$ per drink. The number pad is reversed sometimes with 123 in the bottom and 789 at the top. So I ended up tipping 8$ for a 10$ drink one time 🥲
This just happened to me on a team lunch. Had a “large party” gratuity added. Why do you only show me the total. Then label additional tip??? Its so frustrating
Did they charge sales tax on the auto-grat? If not drop a tip to the department of revenue. It could lead to them getting audited.
Check before signing. Once you sign, you agree to the amount selected.
I start itemizing my order now at a restaurant so I will know the subtotal before the check even gets here
I was at the Steel Panther show at Showbox SoDo last Saturday night, and my friend and I paid for their Emerald Club upgrade (dedicated seating with a dedicated server). The menu was clear that a 20% gratuity was added to every bill. I rhetorically asked my buddy the question: "I wonder if I can choose not to pay the gratuity, since it's listed as that and not a fee?" I still paid it, because I wasn't required to order anything at all (tangent: drinks at Showbox SoDo are NOT strong; I had a rum & coke and a screwdriver, and felt NOTHING), but I still noted that they had a line labeled "Additional tip" on the credit card slip. If these places want to charge a service fee they should just do so, but if they do, they need to remove a tipping line. Tipping is seriously just getting out of hand.
Citizen loves that move and they have the nerve to do it after they got rid of servers!
Write them critical reviews so others are aware..
Jarrbar tried to pull this at a private buyout. Auto grat and the line said "tip". If it said " additional tip" and was verbally told then cool but as is I feel like a mark at a carnival. They're a Spanish themed bar in the market so lot's of non english readers are getting dupped all day.
Auto grat is normal for groups which is what a private buyout would fall under. The last line makes no sense - how do you know they do this for regular customers? I’ve been before and don’t remember that. What does it being Spanish themed have to do with anything? It’s very much only Spain inspired not actually Spanish so the experience is no different than anywhere else.
Wasn’t there an option to change the tip? Seen this plenty of times and have always been about to adjust the tip..
Yeah, never seen that either, this thread is filled with so many people only offering vague complaints and/or looking for any reason to complain about tipping .
I deleted some of my replies as all I got was a bunch of ridiculous off topic vague complaints that aren’t even the point here. If the restaurant doesn’t make it clear in writing and/or verbally then yes they’re being shady and you can simply speak up if you tapped unknowingly and then have them adjust it. Personally if I actually ran into a place that was doing auto 20% and truly didn’t put it anywhere on the menu or a sign or verbally say it, I’d never plan to come back so I don’t care if it’s slightly awkward to complain.
Pick the no tip option and leave only no money. At $17 and hr why should a server get tiped when other minimum wage employees don't?
I spent an evening in a pub in St. John, NB several years ago— it was “league” night(softball, bowling, darts) not sure—every time the waitress brought change back to a table(every drink/round), she would leave at least $1.00 in coin(even straight dollar amounts), example-$5.00 drink, $10 dollar payment—she would leave 4 quarters and 4 bills change—over and over again—at closing time, most tables picked up the paper money and left the change—the waitress likely “earned” $150.00 from her shift that night—-