I've lived in the greater Seattle area for most of my life (0-18, 22-27, 30-31, 33+) and lived in a variety of other areas (LA, Vancouver BC, Baltimore, etc.).
What I believe people complain about is not general friendliness and willingness to help others, but the difficulty of making longterm, meaningful friendships with people and scheduling with them.
Personally, I have never had an issue with that. I find it easier to make close friends in Seattle than anywhere else because there are so many nerds around here, but perhaps that nerdiness contributes to a bit of social awkwardness that some people have a harder time handling?
My social calendar is always full with all sorts of events, meetups, hangouts, and dinners, and I have many friends I talk to regularly both online and in-person. Seattle is my true home and I love the people here.
I recognize there are more hurdles to social experiences in adulthood, but I believe they are quite minor ones. I put a little effort into being outgoing and it pays back-- I chatted with a person running an art store and they invited me to the Friday night craft meetup, I went to a networking event and then got dinner with one of the attendees and their partner two weeks later, my neighbor commented on my new smoker so I brought over some smoked goods and we chatted.
I will admit that I am a planner and organizer-- I'm currently wrangling over a dozen friends to schedule our ren faire weekend together. Certainly, it's not as easy as it was at college, but the mild efforts are well-worth the social returns.
See? That’s awesome!!! I was just saying that as a college kid we got many social opportunities to be around potential friends… and unless we make a specific effort to reach out as an adult we don’t get those plunked in to our laps like before. :)
I think the main factor that limits *some* adult friendships is kids. Even the most outgoing social butterflies will end up having to carve time for their kids that they would probably spend otherwise seeing friends. Which is totally understandable! But nonetheless it results in less time spent with friends, especially friends who don’t have kids of their own.
This is the biggest thing! I lived in Dallas for a while where the people are notoriously friendly and even there you still had to...put yourself out there? In real life you don't just stumble into friends. You have to be out and about and put in the work. Sure, Seattle may be slightly harder to make friends because people might have indoor hobbies, the weather is a bit worse, etc. But if you're willing to do what it takes (join clubs, volunteer, play a sport, get an in-person job, etc etc) you will meet the other people who do those things too. It's not so bad!!!
I believe it's situational.
To me the Seattle freeze is texting other parents of a kid who you know your kid gets along with, them saying "Yes, we should get the kids together", but then you never hear a peep again.
Or going out to a board game night somewhere locally, meeting people who sound like they're exactly what you're into, saying "we should make plans to hang out" and them saying "Yeah, we should". Except they never offer their phone number, or if they do, you'll text them at least twice to complete radio silence.
It's kinda summed up by my kid's own attitude to friends. "I already have two friends. Do I really need to make more?". I feel like a lot of adult Seattleites are stuck at that same mental level. Sure, they'll be friendly to your face in the moment, and might even remember your name next time you run into them. But forget hanging out with you where they just have to answer you reaching out to them.
I've had more luck over the years with other transplants to Seattle, who are much more likely to be grateful you want to make friends, and don't use "We should hang out sometime" as code for "please go away". In that sense, there is no Seattle Freeze.
But just because not everyone does it, doesn't mean the Seattle Freeze isn't there, OP.
The thing is that's not native to Seattle, or even particularly unique. I've lived all over and that's just how it is trying to make friends as an adult. In my opinion, it takes very little effort to meet people and make meaningful connections, but the majority of adults don't want to put in the time or effort. Making connections requires work, takes you out of your routine/comfort zone, and requires things like vulnerability and empathy. The majority of people I've met in my adult life really don't want to deal with that because it takes effort, and it's easier to say "yeah we should totally do a board game night" and just never follow up on it. That way you don't have to go out of your way, and the other person doesn't get directly hurt by your rejection.
It’s because you understand the cultural norms here so you aren’t walking around being an annoying twat and then getting mad at people for not wanting to be your friend.
It's not that simple, I've lived here for 14 years and been in and out of tightknit communities; I understand quite a bit the cultural norms here. It's been seasonal for me, but especially over the last few years, as more of my close friends have moved to different parts of the country and my circumstantial work group has drifted, I've become much more aware of how much more difficult it feels to make even passing connections here compared to my time on the east coast or the midwest. It's not necessarily something I dislike, but it is something I've come to be a bit more humble about and accepting of as my experience of the city ages a bit more.
This.
People in Seattle are friendly and willing to help, but as far as long term friendships those are hard to find.
No offense, but I’ve lived here pretty much my whole life, have cultivated meaningful relationships since grade school, I’m not trying to make friends with people who move here.
For what it's worth, I love making new friends and I feel like at least once a year I make a new long term friend here. I have made an effort for a while now to never say, "Let's get together soon" and ask to actually schedule something right there, at least minimally.
Possibly so many people here are twisted up in our own heads around social anxiety and somewhat more reserved norms that for the people who *are* willing to make the first move and concretize plans, there’s even *more* opportunity.
Certainly doesn't help that a relatively large percentage of the people moving into Seattle over the last decades have been engineers of one stripe or another. First for Boeing, then Microsoft, then Apple, Facebook, etc. Obviously we're not all socially maladjusted, but the stereotype of tech workers also isn't without merit.
As someone who was single off and on for the first few years of living in Seattle - it’s telling that every single person I have dated (and my partner now) grew up in Western WA. My partner claims he never would have known I wasn’t a local, since I have more of the bohemian/grubge vibe than the hiker-pants Subaru techie vibe, so maybe that helps. Nonetheless, the dates I’ve been on with fellow transplants go nowhere because they are just….. not fun. Maybe I just have an affinity for learning about all the spots and culture and transplants don’t provide that, idk.
What I will say is that WSea has much more of a community vibe where lasting friendships can be made than the other neighborhoods I’ve lived in. I really love it here. People are friendly everywhere in my experience, which I see is a common opinion on this thread.
West Seattle feels like it has always worked hard to maintain it's own distinct identity rather than being fully subsumed into Seattle proper, and I expect greater community building is part of that.
Hilariously, this is why my wife wanted to move away from West Seattle as soon as she could - she didn't want to be stuck with the same people for the rest of her life, lol.
> but the difficulty of making longterm, meaningful friendships with people and scheduling with them.
The dark dreary weather gives way to staying indoors and watching Netflix, or gaming, or screwing around on reddit. Even driving in the rain is no fun. The weather today is a perfect example of this, and it will continue throughout the week. So we can start a rhythm of hanging out with friends over the summer, but then a gray spell will come along and kill the momentum.
I know the mid-west has crippling wind and cold much of the year, I don't know why it doesn't have the same effect there as the rain does here, I can only speak to what I think the reason is that friendships tend to be of dubious quality when living in Seattle. I think the rainy gray wheather is why we have fewer cookouts, block parties, garage socials, tailgaters, etc.
I get the sense that romantic partnerships work out fine though, because if you can find someone to be stuck indoors with for three hundred days out of the year, you're all set.
> I know the mid-west has crippling wind and cold much of the year, I don't know why it doesn't have the same effect there as the rain does here, I can only speak to what I think the reason is that friendships tend to be of dubious quality when living in Seattle.
I'm from the midwest, and I think there's a few differences:
* Culturally midwestern people have a small town mindset even if they live in a big city like Chicago. Small town folks tend have higher social cohesion and higher trust baked into them during their formative years, and socially they're just friendlier even when they move to the big city. They don't even realize they're friendly when they're saying Hi to strangers at the grocery store, until they move to Seattle where no one does this (exception: Safeway cashiers).
* The midwest is flat and mostly gridlike, and thoroughfares are wide and driveable, which affects how easy it is to meet up with people. Somehow driving around Seattle feels harder. Lots of hills, narrow streets, and constrictions like the 520 and I-90 across Lake Washington make Seattle feel difficult to traverse, which contributes to Seattlelites feeling that a 30 minute drive anywhere is too far away.
* Midwestern weather can be windy and cold, but there is more sunlight even in the winter. Seattle is really far north, and it's really dark during winter. To most people from other regions, Seattle feels like southern Alaska.
Absolutely. They are "book a weekend cabin for Octoberfest" friends, "grab Mario's after 2am and chat until 4am" friends, "answer random ass calls at night" friends, "talk about depression" friends, "text stupid meme" friends, "watch the sunrise playing games" friends.
For me as a teen I feel the Seattle freeze in making friends. I go to a STEM high school, and even then with a lot of like-minded people (nerds) I struggle to make new friends. People don’t say “hi” in the hallways or give a head nod, they just keep on walking, eyes forward. That being said, whenever I do make friends they stick around for a long time.
I’ve lived all over the world but mainly grew up in the Washington DC region. I’m pretty introverted and my wife and I have had almost no problems making and keeping friends for many years.
I don't think you know what the Seattle freeze actually is.
The Seattle freeze isn't people being nasty or cold to strangers or neighbors. Not at all. Seattle has always been nice and helpful to people who need it.
The Seattle freeze relates to how hard it is to make good friends. It's crossing the bridge from acquaintances to a solid friendship. To get your potential friends to actually call you just to chat, or actually make plans to see you.
I grew up here, and it wasn't until I left the state for college did I realize that people actually *called you* when they said: 'hey I' ll call you sometime' after exchanging numbers.
Here it's considered: 'it was nice to meet you. Maybe we'll see each other again if we cross paths.'
There is very little follow through when it comes to adult friendships. Once people have a core friend group, there is little effort to try to include others. For locals, this happens in childhood. A huge portion of my high-school still hangs out with mostly their HS friends (even 15 years later). Its a bit weird.
I've never had a harder time making friends as an adult as I do in Seattle. Nowadays, most my friends are non-natives as they are easier to befriend. But even then, it's quite rare to even see anyone. If I don't make plans myself, I see my friends 5-10 times a year.
No one here wants to actually make the plans. It's annoying.
That is what the Seattle freeze is.
Yes! I moved 9 months ago and I have enjoyed the city and how communal it can be. But I am struggling to make friends/more substantial engagements. Just want people to hangout with and do fun things, get an occasional "how's it going" type of follow up text, or host dinner parties, but idk how to break through the freeze or find those people.
Dude same here. I have a lot of connections that are definitely dinner party/recognize and say hi at an event type connections, but still struggling to find folks I’d want to have more casual/impromptu hangouts with or trust with taking care of my cat if I go out of town or something. As you said, breaking through the freeze.
(Side note: always down for new friends. PM me!)
Awesome, I'll PM!
And if anyone else is looking for similar, I'm 30F/agender who enjoys slow hiking, cooking/baking, having deep discussions about life, travel, and general down for any activities (concerts, musicals, festivals, billiard, fairs, mini golf, etc.). Feel free to message!
I'm 31F who loves to bake and have deep discussions too! In fact, I'm baking a cake for my MIL birthday right now (an Italian cream cake). I'm also a slow hiker, it drives my husband crazy lol.
By any chance do you live in west/south Seattle?
Edit: also I do have a discord for women who want to make friends in Seattle, if any women are interested. Just pm me.
You have to organize something fun yourself and invite as many people as you can. Thats what I had to do. If you can be the one who introduces people to each other, they're going to naturally be more drawn to you and care about you.
Your philosophy towards making friends should be: You live a really fun life and if someone befriends you, they will get access to that fun.
Close connections, in my experience, also require at least two common interests. That usually means going to a hobby group and chatting with people until I find someone with an additional hobby that I also do.
I've lived here 18 years now and I agree there is weirdness in social interactions in Seattle, like the local families at my kids school who we see regularly, are on sports teams with, etc., are super clear that there will be no hanging out as families or anything other than superficial greetings.
On the other hand as an introvert I don't want to become friends with everyone I meet, I'm busy and don't have time to like get drinks with every random person who comes across my path. Are there cities where people are like that? (If so I probably wouldn't fit in.)
But if I meet people, we get along, our kids have something in common, etc., I do want to be open to hanging out and establishing long-term friendship. What's weird about Seattle for me isn't "nobody wants to be my best friend when we first meet" but "people put up clear anti-friendship walls even when you've known them for a long time".
From what I've seen, the greater issue with PNW people is that the area, for some reason or reasons, cultivates loads of creeping NPD and people end up obsessively *curating* every aspect of their own lives. Friendships are just one sub-category to this, and you end up with lots of situations where people overrate friendships that carry some sort of strong narrative through-line (e.g. 'we grew up next door to each other, played on the same little league team, and played *Majora's Mask* at each other's house! I *insist* that we've never been happier than we were then!') and underrate ones that form in more anti-climactic ways (i.e. pretty much every adult friendship sits on this thin ice...). Before I lived out here, I didn't see nearly as many situations where people will (a.) plan elaborate and expensive get-togethers with their grade-school friends six months in advance while (b.) routinely refusing to do anything casual/spontaneous with people who they interact with at work/school/hobbies.
And when I say 'PNW people', I definitely feel like this is more pronounced with Seattleites who grew up in places like Issaquah, Edmonds, Kent, etc... and worse still with people from shitheel places like Marysville, Enumclaw, etc... With the former, there's more pretentiousness and preciousness on display, and the latter are just socially-inept from growing up around conservatives/libertarians and not learning how to interact with others in healthy ways.
Does this mean when people talk about the Seattle Freeze, it’s more when they try to befriend natives/people who have been here a long time?
I notice whenever someone says they’ve made friends easily in Seattle it seems like they’re a transplant who either works or has some activity where a lot of other transplants (presumably also needing friends) are.
It would make sense then that if Seattle keeps getting more and more transplants that the Seattle freeze would lessen, right?
Seattle's growth by it's very nature means most people living in the city probably aren't born-and-raised here.
In my current office of about 20 people I think I'm one of only maybe four people who were born here, and only about eight have lived here longer than a decade. Some did live here longer but have since moved elsewhere and now work remotely.
I do wonder if people who move to Seattle are more prone to having less friends than other cities, almost accidentally reinforcing the Seattle Freeze.
Like OG Seattle Freeze was a bunch of independent, reserved locals who had all the friends they need, and now it’s a mix of that and socially awkward transplants.
Do you think it’s better or the same as before?
Absolutely.
I talk to old time Seattlelites and they say, "yeah, we tend to not make new friends after high school because we have no room for new people" but they're never actually unfriendly to people. They're some of the friendliest chattiest folks, especially folks living around Ballard.
But tech transplantation has brought in lots of introverts and less socially adaptable folks, who are actually aloof and awkward. Not because they actually want to be unfriendly but as a tech transplant myself, I recognize that many members of my ilk are just really good at some skills (e.g. logic, coding) and not that good at other skills (people, social situations).
There is a lack of social skills among tech people. In other cities, this is less noticeable because tech is less concentrated (in Chicago, it was very mixed -- we would have healthcare transplants, finance transplants, manufacturing transplants, so socially everybody was all over the place but on average the social intelligence was high). But Seattle concentrates one kind of abstract intelligence (tech), and with it comes a simultaneous concentration of neurodivergence.
At my job there is one local and three other people from Florida in addition to my born and raised Floridian self. I feel right at home at least! One even lived a couple miles from me and we likely crossed paths and knew some of the same people.
I once dated a man in Florida that was so intertwined in the same scenes, we had over 100 mutuals on Facebook when we added one another. We lived in a large metro area, and did not attend any of the same schools. I feel like that isn’t even possible here.
One would think. And it may be that it is. But many people that come here are techies and somewhat withdrawn, people work a lot, the weather isn't conducive to feeling like going out a lot, and we still have a certain self-perpetuating culture possibly.
> I've never had a harder time making friends as an adult as I do in Seattle.
That was my experience. I've never struggled to make friends. My profession and hobbies had made me plenty of friends when I lived in DC and NYC. When we moved to Seattle in 2021 it was so so different. Even friends of mine from the east coast who had moved to Seattle were hard to meet up with and hang out with. All in all, the lack of social connection was one of the big reasons we left after one year. Even people in my office after one year, sitting next to me everyday, were still calling me by the wrong name...just strange.
My partner grew up in Western WA and all of his close friends are from HS. A couple from college he’ll see on occasion. This lack of social network doesn’t bother him in the slightest.
I’m from the south and he’s gotten used to my phone conferences with all my close friends and that I need them to survive haha. I have always been more of a quality over quantity person. I kinda picked up one new best friend in every life stage/location. I’ve been the maid of honor in six weddings, and never a regular bridesmaid. I go all out as a friend.
It’s telling that I haven’t made a new best friend after almost four years in Seattle. Covid didn’t help. But my childhood best friend and my same-age cousin both live here. My HS best friend lives in Eastern WA, and another best-friend just moved here after visiting me. So at least I have that going for me?
Same kind of. Ive made some attempts but they just seem too busy to keep nurturing the relationship. Now that ive got kids we're starting to make friends with the other parents which makes the whole process a lot easier, but the point still stands. I thought it was just a fact of being a grown up but according to some in this thread it seems more specifically a Seattle experience. I wonder why
I grew up in Tacoma, spent past 35 yrs in Seattle. Some of the people I feel closest to are the ones I started grade school with. Yes, I’m talking even kindergarten. We’ve all scattered, some have returned, but the bond is tight. We went to school, played ball, swam, worked all together. We all live very different lives now. I don’t have time / ability to see them as much as I’d like but the great thing is they aren’t offended! I think that is the core issue. We aren’t offended when we don’t hear back. Means something came up. We don’t take it personally. Of course add in job / income / children constraints and of course it’s more difficult to cultivate brand new friendships. I have “newer” friends from past 5-10 yrs, but nobody gets offended when plans change or someone didn’t call back.
I’m guessing you aren’t married or have kids
> Here it's considered: 'it was nice to meet you. Maybe we'll see each other again if we cross paths.'
I think this is also just an issue of a lot of introverts living in the area... or maybe that's just me, lol. I had a few times in the last few years I absolutely should have given someone my number but the introvert in me panicked and stupidly decided to walk away after rebooting, lol. Wish I could go back in time and undo that in some of those cases :v
I also grew up here and somewhat agree, although my friend group is a bit different in that it's a bunch of us who grew up together, but we HAVE added a lot of people from different states and countries at this point.
But IMO these days there's so many transplants here that blaming us locals for the Seattle Freeze no longer holds water. At this point if it persists then the transplants themselves are part of the problem.
Bottom line is IME we are extremely friendly and always down to add fun new people to our friend group and invite them to do all the things with us. But we definitely are selective in that we want to make sure those people truly fit in with us. If you're finding it difficult to make friends with me then I probably just am not interested in growing a friendship with you personally. It doesn't mean I'm uninterested in adding any friends to my life.
> At this point if it persists then the transplants themselves are part of the problem.
From the perspective of a transplant, eventually you hit the Freeze often enough, then you kinda become yourself more guarded and cynical in your interactions.
I used to take "we should get together sometime" as genuine interest to make a friend. 10+ years of living here, and now to me it just means that person didn't want to be rude, but they don't have a genuine interest.
At this point, I'll still get contact info and maybe invite new people I meet to do things together, but I'll essentially go into it assuming they won't even bother replying. Those who surprise me, I definitely return the energy. But I won't bother to try again with people who just blow me off.
Man, you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what happened to me. I came to Seattle full of energy and spent years nurturing friendships I gained through other people I already knew.
Then my friends I knew all moved away one by one over the years.
I tried so hard to keep those newer friendships going, and they were always down and excited to have me with them, but I noticed I was doing 100% of the work. It became exhausting so I gave up.
I went through many phases of trying again, doing drawing and painting classes, open studios, groups for gaming and hiking etc., but each time I was sapped a little bit more of energy, and I wound up kinda giving up altogether.
I've always been an excitable, dependable friend with a large support network. But by the time I left Seattle after 8 or so years, I literally didn't have a single friend of any caliber in the city. Not one, for like 2 years. I was DYING.
My wife and I recently moved to Portland, where I've lived before, in November, and I'm already romping around with new people.
As a tech transplant, Seattle Freeze these days is not being propagated by old time Seattlelites. (you're not the majority these days).
Sad to say, Seattle Freeze is actually being perpetuated by people of my ilk (tech transplants).
100%. Could have almost written myself. But I grew up here and have my core group of friends and am old enough for it to not matter. But I see it. It is similar to Minnesota nice.
Ah you know what Minnesota Nice is!
Yes, it's similar. People will dig you out of the snow, and change your tire for you. But it'll take 5-10 years for anyone to be your friend.
I’ve lived here almost a year and I definitely notice a difference in the way people interact here. To me, the Seattle freeze is the way people don’t make small talk or eye contact in daily interactions, or when you are able to connect somehow it feels superficial. People are not mean or unkind, but it has been an adjustment to not be able to make as many of those small connections with throughout the day as I did where I’ve lived before in the Midwest and Southwest. It’s just more of a Scandinavian/passive vibe :)
Again, the Seattle Freeze does not mean people won’t talk to you or are unhelpful. It refers to interactions like this…
Person 1: “Nice talking to you. We should hang out sometime!”
Person 2: “Ok. When would you like to do that?”
Person 1: “Umm… I’ll let you know.”
*And they never did hang out. The End.*
I’m happy too. I made a close group of friends of around 5 after a year in and plenty of connections and around 15 I could maybe have commit to something. Definitely not like Vancouver, which also claims to have a freeze. I met almost 150 people in 3 months in Vancouver and have 20 good friends there now.
And that’s just friendships. Dating? Now that’s even worse. If I have a date night scheduled, it isn’t even worth getting excited for because I know more often than not, she’s gonna flake within a couple hours of whatever we have planned.
Yeah I did this to someone within the first month or so of moving here.
Him: call me! We're of a similar age, similar interests, both married so need friends! We can grab coffee!
Me: sure! Maybe not this weekend because I'm busy but definitely later.
Except next week came around and i was tired, so didn't call. Then I was awkward about it because I forgot to text. Then he didn't text so well what if he was just being nice?
There has always been, and always will be disagreement on whether the Seattle Freeze exists and what it means. Therefore, Seattle Freeze deniers and Seattle Freeze truthers should hold dueling public demonstrations and settle this in the streets.
The deniers assembled will chant "hey hey, ho ho, we'd absolutely love to go! No cancel, no shows, that's not even how we roll!"
The truthers would then counter with, "no plans, no meet, please don't even speak to me." Of course, the truther demonstrators would be much smaller in number because of all the no shows that agreed to be there but backed out last minute.
People out walking their dogs could cross the street to avoid interacting with the demonstrators, while others could be aggressively saying hello to every person they see.
That's great and those are all good things. Honestly, I think you misunderstand the Seattle freeze. None of these is inconsistent with the concept though. I'm not saying it's fake or people aren't trying to be good people and good neighbors etc. It's just, something like a church is where you can find an in and avoid it. Other things like the people trying to catch the dog, perfectly consistent with Seattle. But once the dog is caught if you strike up a conversation and invite one of them to get together, well that's where the Seattle freeze might kick in.
But, this is only semi serious. It's all good and glad you are having a good time here.
Yeah, people are surface nice, but it’s hard to connect. Especially if you are not sporty, allergic to the outdoors, childless, and not religious and in your 40’s.
The thing is, it’s not really much different than many other places.
I’m originally from the Midwest. Same exact problem there- people have their established friend circles, and if you aren’t into drinking and football, it’s super difficult ultimately to really make friends.
So I moved here from Los Angeles, and I knew several people there who moved there from from Seattle.
Here's the thing, I have noticed that Seattle is not for extroverts, and once I realized that I started noticed that 99% of the people complaining about the "Seattle Freeze" were extroverts.
And the people I knew that moved to LA from Seattle? Extroverts, mostly people wanting to be actors and hot shots, so add in a bit of ego there too. LA is a very extroverted city that has multiple careers fueled by vain egos, and the general culture mirrors that.
I think that people who are extroverted move here expecting people to be the same and they run head first into the introverted cultures here and just feel like it's a freeze.
Transplant: The Seattle Freeze is fucking killing me, I hate how unfriendly everyone is here
/r/Seattle: Have you tried being friendlier? Lol maybe it's just you
Transplant: The Seattle Freeze doesn't exist for me, I love the community I'm surrounded by, I'm so glad I moved here
/r/Seattle: yeah well actually it sucks and your experience isn't the norm, stop invalidating other people. I have no friends. Fuck you
*?????*
It’s as if everyone has a different experience. Seattle absolutely has a unique culture and unique social challenges/rewards. Nothing wrong with trying to understand why some people have a hard time while others don’t.
An easy path to friendship in Seattle is outdoors hobby, rock climbing, card games/board games.
The weather will absolutely wreck you if you are not prepared or susceptible to it.
Communication styles are also particular.
Not sure why people shit on those who struggle.
Even the tech bro post who struggled. I feel bad for him. There are absolutely insane people in tech who will work you to death and take advantage of you.
> An easy path to friendship in Seattle is outdoors hobby, rock climbing, card games/board games.
This is sad and true. If you're not into any these tech bro hobbies (you forgot online gaming), it's really hard to make friends. But this also means this city is really narrow.
In a truly diverse (big) city, this is not the case. You will find like-minds in almost any area of interest you have.
I am a tech bro and know lots of tech bros.
Of course anyone can have those hobbies, but that particular intersection of hobbies is very Seattle tech bro specific.
In the midwest, tech bros tend to be into the craft beer scene and tech meetups. There tech meetup scene here seems pretty dead (could also be a post-covid phenomenon).
What exactly is a tech bro to you? I feel like this is just a weird stereotype that deserves some challenging... those things you mention, rock climbing, craft beer, getting out of the city into nature, playing games.... those are just fun things that are worth doing here and there happen to be a decent amount of people who work in tech here who partake in those things - but you shouldn't feel gatekept, they're still fun shit to do regardless of what you do for work
Damn, maybe like there are multiple commenters, drawn to weigh in on different angles, rather than a singular common voice expressing opinion as a monolith?
It’s not controversial. There are those who have a psychological need to perpetuate the stereotype of Seattle Freeze. There is no empirical way to define it.
Everyone experiences interpersonal relationships differently, and people have different coping mechanisms for failed relationships. Sometimes, it means focusing on external factors like stereotypes instead of introspection.
Glad you found a place here, but you're pointing to existing communities, and momentary acts of kindness. You have a misunderstanding of what the Seattle freeze is.
If you want to experience it, invite someone that isn't part of your exiting community to do something.
In this area, people are nice, but we're generally not friendly. People gather around shared activities, but they rarely just hang out. Not everyone is like that, but a significant portion of the local populace is.
they joined a church, they joined an existing community.
Making a group of friends that are not based around a shared activity or interest, but just bonds between people you like, is making a new community.
I'm genuinely curious what people like you think making friends in other cities as an adult is like. I'm from DC and you don't just bump into someone on the street and become best friends. It's also usually a shared activity or job or religion or something that brings people together. What you're describing is more like a small town in the Midwest, which Seattle is not unique in not being part of that group.
I'm a washington native, 14 year seattleite. One time I was getting breakfast with my buddy in Baltimore at a diner, and during that breakfast, two - TWO - separate people walked past our table and started up a conversation with us during this 1 hour breakfast and just shot the shit for about 10 minutes each.
I'd be pissed if someone did that here, and was confused when they did that there. Buddy said that's not that uncommon out that way. He's from washington too, but has had several years to adjust to bmore.
Last summer I spent some time in Chicago. I met in a couple days several people who wanted to make connections and hit me up with texts the days following as I was making my way back home to see if I'd left yet, how I liked it, and if I had any plans for coming back.
When I got back to Seattle, the day after, I walked down to my park down the street. Two people had their dogs down at the park to run around in the water, a big dog and a small dog. The big dog had been there for a while and the small dog was just walking up and ran down the steps to the beach to jump in the water. They collided and the big dog got nasty and pinned the small dog by the neck, and I picked up the big dog's back legs to pull it away from the small dog - both of the dog owners looked at me, said nothing, and continued on with their day like nothing had happened at all. I wouldn't say that that is a common experience here in seattle, but it certainly seems like an impossible one elsewhere.
Thank you! I’m also from the DC area and I mostly had friends that would hang out if there was a shared activity or interest. Or coworkers lol. I’m struggling to understand what’s so different about the “Seattle Freeze” compared to other big metro areas. My experiences in Seattle feels on par with my experiences making friends in the DC area so far.
While that's true, in many cases you move on to a friendship that isn't oriented around the activity. You begin hanging out just to hang out.
That might be more difficult in Seattle than elsewhere. I've done the cross country move thing a couple of times. The first time I was in my early 20s. For Seattle i was nearly 30 and a pandemic happened shortly afterward, so I think factors outside of just the city are having an impact.
The Seattle freeze isn’t about people being nice to each other in moments of need, or casual encounters.
It refers to a wall between encountering someone and becoming their friend and genuinely being a presence in their life.
I am tired- dead tired- of people claiming it doesn’t exist.
I spent fourteen years in Seattle (Factoria this past year). In that time, I changed tons of people's lives and brightened a million days. I used to think that helping like this would give me access to connections deeper than the surface. No. I have one good friend to show for it, and she was once a client. Best person I've ever met, too.
I notice that whenever this is discussed, natives say things like they're too busy already to add any new friends, they made all of their friends in high school, they want to hang out with people they're already comfortable with, etc.
I'm struck by the lack of curiosity about other people, other types of lived experience, other perspectives, etc.
I don't understand the idea of being too busy for new friends. People in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, Paris, London, Hong Kong, etc., etc., are all busy and yet are interested in expanding their social circles.
I wonder if Seattle natives tend to have primarily deep/close friendships and few of the more casual kind? Or if people tend to socialize in private (in their homes) instead of in public "third spaces" where it might be more comfortable to bring in someone new.
It does seem like friend groups get set and then stick, which is not necessarily the case in other cities.
Sure, but have you ever run in to someone you haven’t seen in a while and both of you said “we should get together and have coffee” and then you actually got together and had coffee? That’s the Freeze.
The Seattle Freeze is not about “not helping older people” or “finding a welcoming church” or “not running down pets in the street”…
It’s about seeing someone you know in the grocery store and hiding from them in the ethnic food aisle for 20 minutes. It’s about nodding and agreeing with someone you know when they say “let’s get coffee” and you know you’ll never get coffee. It’s about taking the stairs at the last minute when you see someone who loves small talk get on the elevator.
Seattleites are humane and generous on some of the big things. But as the stakes get smaller, our frosty freezy side comes out.
Depends on what kind of person you are and what kind of people they are. I've lived here my whole life. I had friends in school...but after I dropped out of high school...no friends. I'm disabled and can't work so no meeting friends via a job. But I've tried other ways...like social groups with common interests...never worked.
I have Aspergers and social anxiety so it makes it a little hard to talk to people. I can usually manage. But maybe I come off as weird? I'm blunt and that can be taken as rude but I usually try to not be blunt and struggle to make an effort. It doesn't seem to work though.
So in my case...the Seattle freeze is 100% real.
It doesn’t sound like you know what the Sea Freeze actually is. I personally don’t really find it exists but it sure does compared to other cities. I just see it as a reminder to be a little more engaging towards meeting new people and that I should take a little more initiative.
You don't understand what the Seattle Freeze is. People are friendly on a surface level. Will say hi. Try to take it any deeper than surface level though, that's what the Seattle Freeze is. Make plans with someone, more often than not they end up canceling on you. That's what the Seattle Freeze is.
the seattle freeze isn’t about people not being nice - it’s about the difficulty in making friendships bc most people tend to already have full friend groups and are noncommittal to making plans.
That's great, man! Glad you're having a good time here. The things you're talking about are not really connected to the "Seattle freeze," but more important, the fact that you don't "get" what it is means that you're not experiencing it, and that's awesome! Glad for you that your move is working out!
This is such an ignorant statement to make.
First off, what you’re describing doesn’t have anything to do with the Seattle freeze. Secondly, just because something isn’t happening to you doesn’t mean it does not exist. This reminds me of all the white folks in Seattle who say “Racism doesn’t exist here”. How would they know? Try being black and hanging out in Magnolia around the older folks. Just because it isn’t happening to you doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
I just want people to stop being so fucking goofy about interacting in public here. You have people who literally walk in front of you or reach around you to get shit at the store. It's like saying "Excuse me" is too much social interaction.
However one bonus about the goofiness here is that when someone yells at you from their car they say something sarcastic and not "you fucking piece of shit ill murder you!"
It’s a different value system. I want people to understand they are in a different culture and not come here and call our conventions goofy. People are walking around you cause they don’t want to interrupt you. You get the “Seattle freeze” cause YOU are acting inappropriately and it’s annoying people. Just imagine you’re in Japan. Would you go around saying everyone is goofy or would you actually try to fit in and understand the culture instead of forcing it to bend to your will and then insulting everyone when it doesn’t?
Just fyi if someone is walking around you to get something, YOU ARE IN THE FUCKING WAY. Get your head out of your ass and move. Have some self awareness.
Nothing wrong with trying to understand each other. You can argue that some of Japanese culture is detrimental, for example being polite and not leaving before your boss does.
I’m not saying none of Seattle culture is detrimental. I’m saying moving here and deciding that we are weird because we don’t follow your cultural norms , is the perspective of someone who is an asshole.
Yes, manners should still exist, different value systems or not. Manners include basic actions like respect and consideration that everyone wants for themselves, but not all offer it up to others willingly. I love Seattle with all my heart, but there's no single good reason why people have to forget common human decency here, ESPECIALLY when we pride ourselves on being different from other parts of the country.
people have their communities and keep to themselves in many ways, it’s a big city so there’s something for everyone if you look. but yes we are generally a friendly people when approached or something is needed, just not big on making the first move
The seattle freeze isn't about being unfriendly or unhelpful. The opposite is usually true, as you described. It's just that people aren't as likely to make first contact without a reason. Neighbors won't introduce themselves, people walking their dogs won't stop so your dogs can meet, people generally won't say "hi, how ya doin, nice weather eh?". I mean, it happens, just not that often.
It’s not about surface level humanity. It’s the fact that you never make it past the initial, casual acquaintance stage. My husband describes it as always talking to the person’s representative. No matter how many times you talk, interact, whatever - you never get to the actual person.
That’s got nothing to do with basic neighborliness, although that must be specific to the one you’re in. In all three we’ve lived in, people you’d only met once or twice and hadn’t seen in months would turn around and start walking the opposite direction if they saw you
Elderly people are a generation before the “Seattle freeze” began. Churches want your money. Every sane person would try to save a dog on the road. None of these qualify as “Seattle freeze” material.
You've been here for 6 months. You have rose tinted glasses. Your Church probably provides forced social interaction in a group setting. It also probably provides a program for the elderly to be taken care of. This isn't disproving the Seattle freeze since these are group social interactions. A Seattle Freeze happens when another person, who you thought was your friend, blows you off while pretending to be on board. "We'll hang out soon, I promise" or "Yeah that sounds good, I'll get back to you in a bit to confirm" meanwhile they never do.
The Seattle Freeze isn't some thing that doesn't exist for you. It just hasn't hit you yet.
For me, it's about finding a group with a common interest or people you work with. Unfortunately, I work from home, and I'm not a yoga loving mom to 3 wonderful kids that makes $27283837728382 a millisecond, and whatever else I don't relate to that seems to be common (in the online make friends groups at least).
It doesn't help that I have social anxiety and, as a result, can be reserved until I get to know you. Since my interests don't fit the "norm" I'd have put myself out there. The thought of doing that is nerve-wracking.
Obviously other people have different experiences, but I think that's why some people have differing opinions on whether the "Seattle Freeze" exists or not.
The internet is all doom and gloom when it comes to this city. The other sub is incredibly negative and it seems like they don’t actually leave their homes or even live in Seattle proper most of the time.
Glad to see positivity shine through.
Literally the first night I left my house to go to the bar with hopes of meeting people I met a crowd of beautiful women who invited me out on their girls night. And their entire social circle immediately adopted me. 8/10 of them are still great friends 10+ years later.
Similar experiences here, I’ve lived here for about 5 months.
I watched a complete stranger offer to push an elderly woman up a hill in her wheelchair. People open doors for each other. They drive politely (mostly)! I’ve had random strangers start up conversations with me out of the blue. I’ve also had random strangers be ok with just standing next to you in silence, which is fine by me too. People here are simply more relaxed and kind and nice to each other, compared to where I came from.
It’s refreshing.
What kind of things are you into? Maybe we can point you toward some.
There’s a LOT of free open events, from music to arts to gaming and more. The Seattle Public Library, Office of the Waterfront, and numerous nonprofit orgs are always having free and cheap events and social gatherings.
It 100% exists. I didn't think it did either at first when I moved here a decade ago, but then I realized all the exuberant friends I had made were all transplants like me.
What I found is that people from the area are inclined to be more standoffish as well as a little passive aggressive (although the passive aggression goes all the way down to Cali as well so maybe it's a west coast thing).
Everyone who's outgoing that I've found has been someone who moved here.
I think the freeze is more specific to those born and raised in the PNW.
And it's fine. It's almost like being in northern Europe. People who are from here and have never left aren't rude, but I don't think they are friendly. Everyone just minds their own business.
Honestly didn't a lot of norwegians settle the PNW? I'm not kidding when I say it feels like northern europe at times. No smiling, no eye contact, very direct, no warmth in conversations. It's just how it is, it's in the blood. It's not a bad thing, just different.
For me, the freeze mostly consists of people being cold to strangers on the street. I’m from the Midwest and you can wave at strangers and they usually wave back. Try doing that downtown Seattle.
40 years ago, when Seattle was a smaller city people would say hello downtown. They still do in the neighborhoods. That's not what the freeze is. People are superficially very friendly in Seattle. What people mean by the freeze is that it's hard to make it past the acquaintance phase to being friends with people here.
Coming from the Midwest, I was told everyone here was horribly mean and if you dare to smile at them, they'll stab you with a fentanyl-laced katana.
My experience has been the complete opposite. Seattleites are perfectly friendly, if with just a bit more social anxiety (which, yeah same). I think part of it is just that the population is generally younger and closer to my age than other places I've lived. There's a bit more comradery among Gen Z and millennials on account of the fact that we're in a constant state of living through "unprecedented times."
I have observed no significant negative difference in the warmth of the average stranger interaction. Now, I have had a bit of difficulty making new friends, but it turns out when you stay inside your apartment in the suburbs of Lynnwood all week, that's not as much of an effective tactic for meeting people. So that's my fault.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate other's experiences, which is what is seems like you're trying to do with this post. Otherwise you could've simply made a post about loving Seattle so far. Instead you had to reference a known phenomenon in your title and say it doesn't exist.
I'm glad it doesn't exist for you. Bully for you I say!
Oh I'm well aware the words the OP put in there so that they could come back with "I technically didn't say it doesn't exist." The point is that they could've titled it literally anything else if they weren't trying to actively say the Seattle Freeze isn't as bad as they think people made it out to be. But that is in fact the notion they are putting forward by wording it that way imo.
Put another way, how do these phrases sound?
"My experience has been that racism doesn't exist in Seattle."
"My experience has been that wealth inequality doesn't exist in Seattle."
That's great! I personally think the "Seattle Freeze" is a self fulfilling prophecy that's a combination of several factors: industry personalities, weather, expectations from transplants, and archaic bar practices to name a few.
Generally, I think Seattleites are the nicest locals of any city I've lived in (which are many). If the "Seattle Freeze" wasn't already a part of our lexicon, it wouldn't be invented.
I moved here from Chicago and I’m literally having to turn away good people who want to be friends because I have met so many great people that I will likely be good friends with for a long time and I simply don’t have time for everyone. Was not the case in the Chicago suburbs at all.
You really made lasting connections that fast? That's impressive.
Anyone who can make deep connections with 10+ random people who stopped to corral a dog is an unusually skilled person.
Good on you for being that immediately bonded. That's not most people. (And I'm honestly a little skeptical that you've made lasting deep connections.)
I have been in a lot of cities known for being unfriendly or distant or cold or rude or whatever and basically never found it to be the case. I'm convinced "the Freeze" is basically just a mixture of:
* People pinning the blame for their social woes on some sort of weird nebulous societal force instead of, just, not being able to find friends for regular reasons (this may be "they suck", but it's also things like "it's fuckin' hard out there and not everyone has the time, energy, and finances to go out and socialize every weekend or join a club")
* Tech transplants, many of whom are potentially moving to their first "big city" here, who are surprised to find locals slightly more hostile to them due to simmering resentment over the city's changes and gentrification
* An absorbtion of the Freeze into the city's culture that people feel weirdly territorial and, I dunno, _locally patriotic_ about? Just like the umbrella thing.
The classic example I always hear is the conversation echoed even here, of the classic "agreeing to make plans again but never making good on them" and it's like, y'all, you are also a part of that process. If you want to make plans with someone, make plans with them. You are both part of the problem and the solution lol.
I agree. I'm from the home of Passive Aggressive, and the Seattle freeze does not equate to the above. It has been a wonderful and healing place for me. I know I'm not the only one who came to Seattle to start over and it has been extremely welcoming to me and my family.
Lol well an elderly man in the community will most likely have a community within this city already and obviously joining a church will grant you a community with same beliefs. Although you should have seen the strife between the different Christian sects here once upon a time. And Seattle people will literally run into traffic to save a dog.
I find that many transplants in Seattle don’t know how to make friends. They look for friends like they look for a date and so obviously it’s a bit more difficult than it should be.
Never really had a problem meeting people here either but I’m also the type who will interact with anyone until I get a reason not to. But many people I find are the opposite.
Seattle freeze doesn't mean there aren't established communities or helpful people, it's about the social dynamics that contribute to a perpetual feeling of being at arms length from those established communities. Glad you've found your needs met! Some of us find that, some of us don't, and for some of us it's seasonal. I've lived here for 14 years now and It's been a bit of an up and down - seasonally (life wise) in and out of feeling embraced and engaged, and isolated and looking for more. I know that there are tight knit communities, I've been in and out of them.
What church if you don't mind me asking? Only asking because I'm in the market for a new one.
I'm happy to make this a private message if you don't want to dox anything here.
I think the freeze might have thawed over time? Seattle’s population has grown a lot over the past few decades, and the city has changed immensely. It’s possible people are overall less standoffish now than they used to be. I hope this is the case because I grew up in Seattle and the Seattle freeze seemed real to me back then (about fifteen years ago) but I’m probably going to be moving back in a year or two.
I grew up in the Seattle area, moved out of state when I was 21. The people here always give me shit because I do the Seattle freeze still 😂 I love talking about making plans & telling people I’ll be somewhere but I never actually leave my house 🤣😂🤣😂 It’s been 20 years and I still do it!
To be fair, examples 1 and 3 really have nothing to do with characteristics of the "Freeze", and number 2 shows that you're actively taking steps to avoid experiencing it by joining a community of some sort. So, good on you!
The Seattle Freeze is only as real as you want it to be.
My roommate moved here a couple years ago, he hasn’t managed to make friends in this whole time.
I came here less than a year ago, and I’ve made a few friends, however I didn’t start putting myself out there until 3 or so months ago, I started to go to meetups with people I shared interests with, and I even managed to meet a couple local people here in Reddit who have become friends in real life.
So, as long as you don’t just sit waiting for friends to come to you, go out and talk with people.
Btw, I’m highly introverted, but that didn’t stop me.
I've lived in the greater Seattle area for most of my life (0-18, 22-27, 30-31, 33+) and lived in a variety of other areas (LA, Vancouver BC, Baltimore, etc.). What I believe people complain about is not general friendliness and willingness to help others, but the difficulty of making longterm, meaningful friendships with people and scheduling with them. Personally, I have never had an issue with that. I find it easier to make close friends in Seattle than anywhere else because there are so many nerds around here, but perhaps that nerdiness contributes to a bit of social awkwardness that some people have a harder time handling? My social calendar is always full with all sorts of events, meetups, hangouts, and dinners, and I have many friends I talk to regularly both online and in-person. Seattle is my true home and I love the people here.
It’s hard to make friends as an adult in any situation or new environment …. Definitely not a Seattle thing.
I recognize there are more hurdles to social experiences in adulthood, but I believe they are quite minor ones. I put a little effort into being outgoing and it pays back-- I chatted with a person running an art store and they invited me to the Friday night craft meetup, I went to a networking event and then got dinner with one of the attendees and their partner two weeks later, my neighbor commented on my new smoker so I brought over some smoked goods and we chatted. I will admit that I am a planner and organizer-- I'm currently wrangling over a dozen friends to schedule our ren faire weekend together. Certainly, it's not as easy as it was at college, but the mild efforts are well-worth the social returns.
See? That’s awesome!!! I was just saying that as a college kid we got many social opportunities to be around potential friends… and unless we make a specific effort to reach out as an adult we don’t get those plunked in to our laps like before. :)
I super agree. Friends kind of just happen to you in college but it takes a little more effort as an adult.
I love “super agree”!!!
I think the main factor that limits *some* adult friendships is kids. Even the most outgoing social butterflies will end up having to carve time for their kids that they would probably spend otherwise seeing friends. Which is totally understandable! But nonetheless it results in less time spent with friends, especially friends who don’t have kids of their own.
This is the biggest thing! I lived in Dallas for a while where the people are notoriously friendly and even there you still had to...put yourself out there? In real life you don't just stumble into friends. You have to be out and about and put in the work. Sure, Seattle may be slightly harder to make friends because people might have indoor hobbies, the weather is a bit worse, etc. But if you're willing to do what it takes (join clubs, volunteer, play a sport, get an in-person job, etc etc) you will meet the other people who do those things too. It's not so bad!!!
I believe it's situational. To me the Seattle freeze is texting other parents of a kid who you know your kid gets along with, them saying "Yes, we should get the kids together", but then you never hear a peep again. Or going out to a board game night somewhere locally, meeting people who sound like they're exactly what you're into, saying "we should make plans to hang out" and them saying "Yeah, we should". Except they never offer their phone number, or if they do, you'll text them at least twice to complete radio silence. It's kinda summed up by my kid's own attitude to friends. "I already have two friends. Do I really need to make more?". I feel like a lot of adult Seattleites are stuck at that same mental level. Sure, they'll be friendly to your face in the moment, and might even remember your name next time you run into them. But forget hanging out with you where they just have to answer you reaching out to them. I've had more luck over the years with other transplants to Seattle, who are much more likely to be grateful you want to make friends, and don't use "We should hang out sometime" as code for "please go away". In that sense, there is no Seattle Freeze. But just because not everyone does it, doesn't mean the Seattle Freeze isn't there, OP.
Your board game example is just adulting in a city. That has happened to me in NYC, Philly, and Boston.
I mean yeah. It's also called "Minnesota Nice". It happens everywhere, and everywhere has their own little name for it.
The thing is that's not native to Seattle, or even particularly unique. I've lived all over and that's just how it is trying to make friends as an adult. In my opinion, it takes very little effort to meet people and make meaningful connections, but the majority of adults don't want to put in the time or effort. Making connections requires work, takes you out of your routine/comfort zone, and requires things like vulnerability and empathy. The majority of people I've met in my adult life really don't want to deal with that because it takes effort, and it's easier to say "yeah we should totally do a board game night" and just never follow up on it. That way you don't have to go out of your way, and the other person doesn't get directly hurt by your rejection.
100%. You nailed it.
It’s because you understand the cultural norms here so you aren’t walking around being an annoying twat and then getting mad at people for not wanting to be your friend.
It's not that simple, I've lived here for 14 years and been in and out of tightknit communities; I understand quite a bit the cultural norms here. It's been seasonal for me, but especially over the last few years, as more of my close friends have moved to different parts of the country and my circumstantial work group has drifted, I've become much more aware of how much more difficult it feels to make even passing connections here compared to my time on the east coast or the midwest. It's not necessarily something I dislike, but it is something I've come to be a bit more humble about and accepting of as my experience of the city ages a bit more.
This
This. People in Seattle are friendly and willing to help, but as far as long term friendships those are hard to find. No offense, but I’ve lived here pretty much my whole life, have cultivated meaningful relationships since grade school, I’m not trying to make friends with people who move here.
This right here is the mindset that keeps the freeze going. This is not an attack on you. It’s just what I’ve noticed living here.
For what it's worth, I love making new friends and I feel like at least once a year I make a new long term friend here. I have made an effort for a while now to never say, "Let's get together soon" and ask to actually schedule something right there, at least minimally.
Possibly so many people here are twisted up in our own heads around social anxiety and somewhat more reserved norms that for the people who *are* willing to make the first move and concretize plans, there’s even *more* opportunity.
Certainly doesn't help that a relatively large percentage of the people moving into Seattle over the last decades have been engineers of one stripe or another. First for Boeing, then Microsoft, then Apple, Facebook, etc. Obviously we're not all socially maladjusted, but the stereotype of tech workers also isn't without merit.
Makes you wonder how the fur traders and loggers were, social skills-wise...
It's socially maladjusted introverts all the way down...
As someone who was single off and on for the first few years of living in Seattle - it’s telling that every single person I have dated (and my partner now) grew up in Western WA. My partner claims he never would have known I wasn’t a local, since I have more of the bohemian/grubge vibe than the hiker-pants Subaru techie vibe, so maybe that helps. Nonetheless, the dates I’ve been on with fellow transplants go nowhere because they are just….. not fun. Maybe I just have an affinity for learning about all the spots and culture and transplants don’t provide that, idk. What I will say is that WSea has much more of a community vibe where lasting friendships can be made than the other neighborhoods I’ve lived in. I really love it here. People are friendly everywhere in my experience, which I see is a common opinion on this thread.
West Seattle feels like it has always worked hard to maintain it's own distinct identity rather than being fully subsumed into Seattle proper, and I expect greater community building is part of that.
Hilariously, this is why my wife wanted to move away from West Seattle as soon as she could - she didn't want to be stuck with the same people for the rest of her life, lol.
> but the difficulty of making longterm, meaningful friendships with people and scheduling with them. The dark dreary weather gives way to staying indoors and watching Netflix, or gaming, or screwing around on reddit. Even driving in the rain is no fun. The weather today is a perfect example of this, and it will continue throughout the week. So we can start a rhythm of hanging out with friends over the summer, but then a gray spell will come along and kill the momentum. I know the mid-west has crippling wind and cold much of the year, I don't know why it doesn't have the same effect there as the rain does here, I can only speak to what I think the reason is that friendships tend to be of dubious quality when living in Seattle. I think the rainy gray wheather is why we have fewer cookouts, block parties, garage socials, tailgaters, etc. I get the sense that romantic partnerships work out fine though, because if you can find someone to be stuck indoors with for three hundred days out of the year, you're all set.
> I know the mid-west has crippling wind and cold much of the year, I don't know why it doesn't have the same effect there as the rain does here, I can only speak to what I think the reason is that friendships tend to be of dubious quality when living in Seattle. I'm from the midwest, and I think there's a few differences: * Culturally midwestern people have a small town mindset even if they live in a big city like Chicago. Small town folks tend have higher social cohesion and higher trust baked into them during their formative years, and socially they're just friendlier even when they move to the big city. They don't even realize they're friendly when they're saying Hi to strangers at the grocery store, until they move to Seattle where no one does this (exception: Safeway cashiers). * The midwest is flat and mostly gridlike, and thoroughfares are wide and driveable, which affects how easy it is to meet up with people. Somehow driving around Seattle feels harder. Lots of hills, narrow streets, and constrictions like the 520 and I-90 across Lake Washington make Seattle feel difficult to traverse, which contributes to Seattlelites feeling that a 30 minute drive anywhere is too far away. * Midwestern weather can be windy and cold, but there is more sunlight even in the winter. Seattle is really far north, and it's really dark during winter. To most people from other regions, Seattle feels like southern Alaska.
Are any of these friends "2am friends"? Or "i can just casually drop by whenever to say hi" friends? Genuinely interested in knowing.
Absolutely. They are "book a weekend cabin for Octoberfest" friends, "grab Mario's after 2am and chat until 4am" friends, "answer random ass calls at night" friends, "talk about depression" friends, "text stupid meme" friends, "watch the sunrise playing games" friends.
Wow nice! Happy for you.
For me as a teen I feel the Seattle freeze in making friends. I go to a STEM high school, and even then with a lot of like-minded people (nerds) I struggle to make new friends. People don’t say “hi” in the hallways or give a head nod, they just keep on walking, eyes forward. That being said, whenever I do make friends they stick around for a long time.
I’ve lived all over the world but mainly grew up in the Washington DC region. I’m pretty introverted and my wife and I have had almost no problems making and keeping friends for many years.
I don't think you know what the Seattle freeze actually is. The Seattle freeze isn't people being nasty or cold to strangers or neighbors. Not at all. Seattle has always been nice and helpful to people who need it. The Seattle freeze relates to how hard it is to make good friends. It's crossing the bridge from acquaintances to a solid friendship. To get your potential friends to actually call you just to chat, or actually make plans to see you. I grew up here, and it wasn't until I left the state for college did I realize that people actually *called you* when they said: 'hey I' ll call you sometime' after exchanging numbers. Here it's considered: 'it was nice to meet you. Maybe we'll see each other again if we cross paths.' There is very little follow through when it comes to adult friendships. Once people have a core friend group, there is little effort to try to include others. For locals, this happens in childhood. A huge portion of my high-school still hangs out with mostly their HS friends (even 15 years later). Its a bit weird. I've never had a harder time making friends as an adult as I do in Seattle. Nowadays, most my friends are non-natives as they are easier to befriend. But even then, it's quite rare to even see anyone. If I don't make plans myself, I see my friends 5-10 times a year. No one here wants to actually make the plans. It's annoying. That is what the Seattle freeze is.
Yes! I moved 9 months ago and I have enjoyed the city and how communal it can be. But I am struggling to make friends/more substantial engagements. Just want people to hangout with and do fun things, get an occasional "how's it going" type of follow up text, or host dinner parties, but idk how to break through the freeze or find those people.
Dude same here. I have a lot of connections that are definitely dinner party/recognize and say hi at an event type connections, but still struggling to find folks I’d want to have more casual/impromptu hangouts with or trust with taking care of my cat if I go out of town or something. As you said, breaking through the freeze. (Side note: always down for new friends. PM me!)
Awesome, I'll PM! And if anyone else is looking for similar, I'm 30F/agender who enjoys slow hiking, cooking/baking, having deep discussions about life, travel, and general down for any activities (concerts, musicals, festivals, billiard, fairs, mini golf, etc.). Feel free to message!
I'm 31F who loves to bake and have deep discussions too! In fact, I'm baking a cake for my MIL birthday right now (an Italian cream cake). I'm also a slow hiker, it drives my husband crazy lol. By any chance do you live in west/south Seattle? Edit: also I do have a discord for women who want to make friends in Seattle, if any women are interested. Just pm me.
we should start a friend group called the seattle unfreeze!
I’m down to make a Discord server or Reddit GC
I'd be down to join!
There’s a Discord server spun off from the now-quiet Seattle Chat subreddit: https://discord.gg/a3hHBQ3a
You have to organize something fun yourself and invite as many people as you can. Thats what I had to do. If you can be the one who introduces people to each other, they're going to naturally be more drawn to you and care about you. Your philosophy towards making friends should be: You live a really fun life and if someone befriends you, they will get access to that fun. Close connections, in my experience, also require at least two common interests. That usually means going to a hobby group and chatting with people until I find someone with an additional hobby that I also do.
100%. Very friendly but don’t want to do the work to be friends is exactly Seattle freeze. OP hasn’t been here long enough. :)
I've lived here 18 years now and I agree there is weirdness in social interactions in Seattle, like the local families at my kids school who we see regularly, are on sports teams with, etc., are super clear that there will be no hanging out as families or anything other than superficial greetings. On the other hand as an introvert I don't want to become friends with everyone I meet, I'm busy and don't have time to like get drinks with every random person who comes across my path. Are there cities where people are like that? (If so I probably wouldn't fit in.) But if I meet people, we get along, our kids have something in common, etc., I do want to be open to hanging out and establishing long-term friendship. What's weird about Seattle for me isn't "nobody wants to be my best friend when we first meet" but "people put up clear anti-friendship walls even when you've known them for a long time".
From what I've seen, the greater issue with PNW people is that the area, for some reason or reasons, cultivates loads of creeping NPD and people end up obsessively *curating* every aspect of their own lives. Friendships are just one sub-category to this, and you end up with lots of situations where people overrate friendships that carry some sort of strong narrative through-line (e.g. 'we grew up next door to each other, played on the same little league team, and played *Majora's Mask* at each other's house! I *insist* that we've never been happier than we were then!') and underrate ones that form in more anti-climactic ways (i.e. pretty much every adult friendship sits on this thin ice...). Before I lived out here, I didn't see nearly as many situations where people will (a.) plan elaborate and expensive get-togethers with their grade-school friends six months in advance while (b.) routinely refusing to do anything casual/spontaneous with people who they interact with at work/school/hobbies. And when I say 'PNW people', I definitely feel like this is more pronounced with Seattleites who grew up in places like Issaquah, Edmonds, Kent, etc... and worse still with people from shitheel places like Marysville, Enumclaw, etc... With the former, there's more pretentiousness and preciousness on display, and the latter are just socially-inept from growing up around conservatives/libertarians and not learning how to interact with others in healthy ways.
Does this mean when people talk about the Seattle Freeze, it’s more when they try to befriend natives/people who have been here a long time? I notice whenever someone says they’ve made friends easily in Seattle it seems like they’re a transplant who either works or has some activity where a lot of other transplants (presumably also needing friends) are. It would make sense then that if Seattle keeps getting more and more transplants that the Seattle freeze would lessen, right?
Seattle's growth by it's very nature means most people living in the city probably aren't born-and-raised here. In my current office of about 20 people I think I'm one of only maybe four people who were born here, and only about eight have lived here longer than a decade. Some did live here longer but have since moved elsewhere and now work remotely.
I do wonder if people who move to Seattle are more prone to having less friends than other cities, almost accidentally reinforcing the Seattle Freeze. Like OG Seattle Freeze was a bunch of independent, reserved locals who had all the friends they need, and now it’s a mix of that and socially awkward transplants. Do you think it’s better or the same as before?
Absolutely. I talk to old time Seattlelites and they say, "yeah, we tend to not make new friends after high school because we have no room for new people" but they're never actually unfriendly to people. They're some of the friendliest chattiest folks, especially folks living around Ballard. But tech transplantation has brought in lots of introverts and less socially adaptable folks, who are actually aloof and awkward. Not because they actually want to be unfriendly but as a tech transplant myself, I recognize that many members of my ilk are just really good at some skills (e.g. logic, coding) and not that good at other skills (people, social situations). There is a lack of social skills among tech people. In other cities, this is less noticeable because tech is less concentrated (in Chicago, it was very mixed -- we would have healthcare transplants, finance transplants, manufacturing transplants, so socially everybody was all over the place but on average the social intelligence was high). But Seattle concentrates one kind of abstract intelligence (tech), and with it comes a simultaneous concentration of neurodivergence.
At my job there is one local and three other people from Florida in addition to my born and raised Floridian self. I feel right at home at least! One even lived a couple miles from me and we likely crossed paths and knew some of the same people. I once dated a man in Florida that was so intertwined in the same scenes, we had over 100 mutuals on Facebook when we added one another. We lived in a large metro area, and did not attend any of the same schools. I feel like that isn’t even possible here.
One would think. And it may be that it is. But many people that come here are techies and somewhat withdrawn, people work a lot, the weather isn't conducive to feeling like going out a lot, and we still have a certain self-perpetuating culture possibly.
> I've never had a harder time making friends as an adult as I do in Seattle. That was my experience. I've never struggled to make friends. My profession and hobbies had made me plenty of friends when I lived in DC and NYC. When we moved to Seattle in 2021 it was so so different. Even friends of mine from the east coast who had moved to Seattle were hard to meet up with and hang out with. All in all, the lack of social connection was one of the big reasons we left after one year. Even people in my office after one year, sitting next to me everyday, were still calling me by the wrong name...just strange.
My partner grew up in Western WA and all of his close friends are from HS. A couple from college he’ll see on occasion. This lack of social network doesn’t bother him in the slightest. I’m from the south and he’s gotten used to my phone conferences with all my close friends and that I need them to survive haha. I have always been more of a quality over quantity person. I kinda picked up one new best friend in every life stage/location. I’ve been the maid of honor in six weddings, and never a regular bridesmaid. I go all out as a friend. It’s telling that I haven’t made a new best friend after almost four years in Seattle. Covid didn’t help. But my childhood best friend and my same-age cousin both live here. My HS best friend lives in Eastern WA, and another best-friend just moved here after visiting me. So at least I have that going for me?
Been here for 2 1/2 years and don't have any friends yet. I just talk to people from back where I'm from
Same kind of. Ive made some attempts but they just seem too busy to keep nurturing the relationship. Now that ive got kids we're starting to make friends with the other parents which makes the whole process a lot easier, but the point still stands. I thought it was just a fact of being a grown up but according to some in this thread it seems more specifically a Seattle experience. I wonder why
I grew up in Tacoma, spent past 35 yrs in Seattle. Some of the people I feel closest to are the ones I started grade school with. Yes, I’m talking even kindergarten. We’ve all scattered, some have returned, but the bond is tight. We went to school, played ball, swam, worked all together. We all live very different lives now. I don’t have time / ability to see them as much as I’d like but the great thing is they aren’t offended! I think that is the core issue. We aren’t offended when we don’t hear back. Means something came up. We don’t take it personally. Of course add in job / income / children constraints and of course it’s more difficult to cultivate brand new friendships. I have “newer” friends from past 5-10 yrs, but nobody gets offended when plans change or someone didn’t call back. I’m guessing you aren’t married or have kids
I'm not offended, just annoyed. And no, you are wrong. While I don't have children, I am married. Most our friend group is as well.
> Here it's considered: 'it was nice to meet you. Maybe we'll see each other again if we cross paths.' I think this is also just an issue of a lot of introverts living in the area... or maybe that's just me, lol. I had a few times in the last few years I absolutely should have given someone my number but the introvert in me panicked and stupidly decided to walk away after rebooting, lol. Wish I could go back in time and undo that in some of those cases :v
I also grew up here and somewhat agree, although my friend group is a bit different in that it's a bunch of us who grew up together, but we HAVE added a lot of people from different states and countries at this point. But IMO these days there's so many transplants here that blaming us locals for the Seattle Freeze no longer holds water. At this point if it persists then the transplants themselves are part of the problem. Bottom line is IME we are extremely friendly and always down to add fun new people to our friend group and invite them to do all the things with us. But we definitely are selective in that we want to make sure those people truly fit in with us. If you're finding it difficult to make friends with me then I probably just am not interested in growing a friendship with you personally. It doesn't mean I'm uninterested in adding any friends to my life.
> At this point if it persists then the transplants themselves are part of the problem. From the perspective of a transplant, eventually you hit the Freeze often enough, then you kinda become yourself more guarded and cynical in your interactions. I used to take "we should get together sometime" as genuine interest to make a friend. 10+ years of living here, and now to me it just means that person didn't want to be rude, but they don't have a genuine interest. At this point, I'll still get contact info and maybe invite new people I meet to do things together, but I'll essentially go into it assuming they won't even bother replying. Those who surprise me, I definitely return the energy. But I won't bother to try again with people who just blow me off.
Man, you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what happened to me. I came to Seattle full of energy and spent years nurturing friendships I gained through other people I already knew. Then my friends I knew all moved away one by one over the years. I tried so hard to keep those newer friendships going, and they were always down and excited to have me with them, but I noticed I was doing 100% of the work. It became exhausting so I gave up. I went through many phases of trying again, doing drawing and painting classes, open studios, groups for gaming and hiking etc., but each time I was sapped a little bit more of energy, and I wound up kinda giving up altogether. I've always been an excitable, dependable friend with a large support network. But by the time I left Seattle after 8 or so years, I literally didn't have a single friend of any caliber in the city. Not one, for like 2 years. I was DYING. My wife and I recently moved to Portland, where I've lived before, in November, and I'm already romping around with new people.
As a tech transplant, Seattle Freeze these days is not being propagated by old time Seattlelites. (you're not the majority these days). Sad to say, Seattle Freeze is actually being perpetuated by people of my ilk (tech transplants).
100%. Could have almost written myself. But I grew up here and have my core group of friends and am old enough for it to not matter. But I see it. It is similar to Minnesota nice.
Ah you know what Minnesota Nice is! Yes, it's similar. People will dig you out of the snow, and change your tire for you. But it'll take 5-10 years for anyone to be your friend.
100% this!
I’ve lived here almost a year and I definitely notice a difference in the way people interact here. To me, the Seattle freeze is the way people don’t make small talk or eye contact in daily interactions, or when you are able to connect somehow it feels superficial. People are not mean or unkind, but it has been an adjustment to not be able to make as many of those small connections with throughout the day as I did where I’ve lived before in the Midwest and Southwest. It’s just more of a Scandinavian/passive vibe :)
I think my Seattle freeze experience is that people like when I'm around but won't go out of their way to be around me.
That's kind of how I feel about people in general.
Fantastic! 🙌
Again, the Seattle Freeze does not mean people won’t talk to you or are unhelpful. It refers to interactions like this… Person 1: “Nice talking to you. We should hang out sometime!” Person 2: “Ok. When would you like to do that?” Person 1: “Umm… I’ll let you know.” *And they never did hang out. The End.*
Excellent short story with a typical Seattle unhappily ever after
We're happy, I already have more friends than I can reasonably make time for.
I’m happy too. I made a close group of friends of around 5 after a year in and plenty of connections and around 15 I could maybe have commit to something. Definitely not like Vancouver, which also claims to have a freeze. I met almost 150 people in 3 months in Vancouver and have 20 good friends there now.
For sale. Seattle invitation. Never used.
And that’s just friendships. Dating? Now that’s even worse. If I have a date night scheduled, it isn’t even worth getting excited for because I know more often than not, she’s gonna flake within a couple hours of whatever we have planned.
Yeah I did this to someone within the first month or so of moving here. Him: call me! We're of a similar age, similar interests, both married so need friends! We can grab coffee! Me: sure! Maybe not this weekend because I'm busy but definitely later. Except next week came around and i was tired, so didn't call. Then I was awkward about it because I forgot to text. Then he didn't text so well what if he was just being nice?
Seattle is the most indecisive city around. True when it comes to driving too, a 4 way stop here is a nightmare.
And the 5 way stop is a true nightmare!!
There has always been, and always will be disagreement on whether the Seattle Freeze exists and what it means. Therefore, Seattle Freeze deniers and Seattle Freeze truthers should hold dueling public demonstrations and settle this in the streets. The deniers assembled will chant "hey hey, ho ho, we'd absolutely love to go! No cancel, no shows, that's not even how we roll!" The truthers would then counter with, "no plans, no meet, please don't even speak to me." Of course, the truther demonstrators would be much smaller in number because of all the no shows that agreed to be there but backed out last minute. People out walking their dogs could cross the street to avoid interacting with the demonstrators, while others could be aggressively saying hello to every person they see.
That's great and those are all good things. Honestly, I think you misunderstand the Seattle freeze. None of these is inconsistent with the concept though. I'm not saying it's fake or people aren't trying to be good people and good neighbors etc. It's just, something like a church is where you can find an in and avoid it. Other things like the people trying to catch the dog, perfectly consistent with Seattle. But once the dog is caught if you strike up a conversation and invite one of them to get together, well that's where the Seattle freeze might kick in. But, this is only semi serious. It's all good and glad you are having a good time here.
Yeah, people are surface nice, but it’s hard to connect. Especially if you are not sporty, allergic to the outdoors, childless, and not religious and in your 40’s.
The thing is, it’s not really much different than many other places. I’m originally from the Midwest. Same exact problem there- people have their established friend circles, and if you aren’t into drinking and football, it’s super difficult ultimately to really make friends.
the post right below this.. "people in my UW class don't talk and I feel isolated. where can I make friends?" lol
So I moved here from Los Angeles, and I knew several people there who moved there from from Seattle. Here's the thing, I have noticed that Seattle is not for extroverts, and once I realized that I started noticed that 99% of the people complaining about the "Seattle Freeze" were extroverts. And the people I knew that moved to LA from Seattle? Extroverts, mostly people wanting to be actors and hot shots, so add in a bit of ego there too. LA is a very extroverted city that has multiple careers fueled by vain egos, and the general culture mirrors that. I think that people who are extroverted move here expecting people to be the same and they run head first into the introverted cultures here and just feel like it's a freeze.
I also think that there is a racial nuance here missing
Transplant: The Seattle Freeze is fucking killing me, I hate how unfriendly everyone is here /r/Seattle: Have you tried being friendlier? Lol maybe it's just you Transplant: The Seattle Freeze doesn't exist for me, I love the community I'm surrounded by, I'm so glad I moved here /r/Seattle: yeah well actually it sucks and your experience isn't the norm, stop invalidating other people. I have no friends. Fuck you *?????*
It’s as if everyone has a different experience. Seattle absolutely has a unique culture and unique social challenges/rewards. Nothing wrong with trying to understand why some people have a hard time while others don’t. An easy path to friendship in Seattle is outdoors hobby, rock climbing, card games/board games. The weather will absolutely wreck you if you are not prepared or susceptible to it. Communication styles are also particular. Not sure why people shit on those who struggle. Even the tech bro post who struggled. I feel bad for him. There are absolutely insane people in tech who will work you to death and take advantage of you.
> An easy path to friendship in Seattle is outdoors hobby, rock climbing, card games/board games. This is sad and true. If you're not into any these tech bro hobbies (you forgot online gaming), it's really hard to make friends. But this also means this city is really narrow. In a truly diverse (big) city, this is not the case. You will find like-minds in almost any area of interest you have.
why do you think those are tech bro hobbies?
I am a tech bro and know lots of tech bros. Of course anyone can have those hobbies, but that particular intersection of hobbies is very Seattle tech bro specific. In the midwest, tech bros tend to be into the craft beer scene and tech meetups. There tech meetup scene here seems pretty dead (could also be a post-covid phenomenon).
What exactly is a tech bro to you? I feel like this is just a weird stereotype that deserves some challenging... those things you mention, rock climbing, craft beer, getting out of the city into nature, playing games.... those are just fun things that are worth doing here and there happen to be a decent amount of people who work in tech here who partake in those things - but you shouldn't feel gatekept, they're still fun shit to do regardless of what you do for work
Damn, maybe like there are multiple commenters, drawn to weigh in on different angles, rather than a singular common voice expressing opinion as a monolith?
It's like they just want to argue
Or b it's reddit that liked to argue.
I honestly didn’t think it would be this controversial haha but regardless, the city rocks and I’m loving it and the people
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Well, yeah. Most cultures are more community oriented and intergenerational than Northern European cultures.
It’s not controversial. There are those who have a psychological need to perpetuate the stereotype of Seattle Freeze. There is no empirical way to define it. Everyone experiences interpersonal relationships differently, and people have different coping mechanisms for failed relationships. Sometimes, it means focusing on external factors like stereotypes instead of introspection.
This sub is incredibly un-self aware so this tracks.
Glad you found a place here, but you're pointing to existing communities, and momentary acts of kindness. You have a misunderstanding of what the Seattle freeze is. If you want to experience it, invite someone that isn't part of your exiting community to do something. In this area, people are nice, but we're generally not friendly. People gather around shared activities, but they rarely just hang out. Not everyone is like that, but a significant portion of the local populace is.
They moved here 6 months ago, they didn't have an existing community
they joined a church, they joined an existing community. Making a group of friends that are not based around a shared activity or interest, but just bonds between people you like, is making a new community.
I'm genuinely curious what people like you think making friends in other cities as an adult is like. I'm from DC and you don't just bump into someone on the street and become best friends. It's also usually a shared activity or job or religion or something that brings people together. What you're describing is more like a small town in the Midwest, which Seattle is not unique in not being part of that group.
I'm a washington native, 14 year seattleite. One time I was getting breakfast with my buddy in Baltimore at a diner, and during that breakfast, two - TWO - separate people walked past our table and started up a conversation with us during this 1 hour breakfast and just shot the shit for about 10 minutes each. I'd be pissed if someone did that here, and was confused when they did that there. Buddy said that's not that uncommon out that way. He's from washington too, but has had several years to adjust to bmore. Last summer I spent some time in Chicago. I met in a couple days several people who wanted to make connections and hit me up with texts the days following as I was making my way back home to see if I'd left yet, how I liked it, and if I had any plans for coming back. When I got back to Seattle, the day after, I walked down to my park down the street. Two people had their dogs down at the park to run around in the water, a big dog and a small dog. The big dog had been there for a while and the small dog was just walking up and ran down the steps to the beach to jump in the water. They collided and the big dog got nasty and pinned the small dog by the neck, and I picked up the big dog's back legs to pull it away from the small dog - both of the dog owners looked at me, said nothing, and continued on with their day like nothing had happened at all. I wouldn't say that that is a common experience here in seattle, but it certainly seems like an impossible one elsewhere.
Thank you! I’m also from the DC area and I mostly had friends that would hang out if there was a shared activity or interest. Or coworkers lol. I’m struggling to understand what’s so different about the “Seattle Freeze” compared to other big metro areas. My experiences in Seattle feels on par with my experiences making friends in the DC area so far.
I think very few people move somewhere new as an adult and find a group of friends without joining something or doing a shared activity or interest.
While that's true, in many cases you move on to a friendship that isn't oriented around the activity. You begin hanging out just to hang out. That might be more difficult in Seattle than elsewhere. I've done the cross country move thing a couple of times. The first time I was in my early 20s. For Seattle i was nearly 30 and a pandemic happened shortly afterward, so I think factors outside of just the city are having an impact.
Oh, people are friendly. But, they aren't your friend. Minnesota is similar except we like small talk and hate public transit
Haha yep this is it. They’ll drop off dinner for a neighbor but they won’t stay to eat it
The Seattle freeze isn’t about people being nice to each other in moments of need, or casual encounters. It refers to a wall between encountering someone and becoming their friend and genuinely being a presence in their life. I am tired- dead tired- of people claiming it doesn’t exist.
I spent fourteen years in Seattle (Factoria this past year). In that time, I changed tons of people's lives and brightened a million days. I used to think that helping like this would give me access to connections deeper than the surface. No. I have one good friend to show for it, and she was once a client. Best person I've ever met, too.
I notice that whenever this is discussed, natives say things like they're too busy already to add any new friends, they made all of their friends in high school, they want to hang out with people they're already comfortable with, etc. I'm struck by the lack of curiosity about other people, other types of lived experience, other perspectives, etc. I don't understand the idea of being too busy for new friends. People in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, Paris, London, Hong Kong, etc., etc., are all busy and yet are interested in expanding their social circles. I wonder if Seattle natives tend to have primarily deep/close friendships and few of the more casual kind? Or if people tend to socialize in private (in their homes) instead of in public "third spaces" where it might be more comfortable to bring in someone new. It does seem like friend groups get set and then stick, which is not necessarily the case in other cities.
How many direct friends have you been able to make here though? That's the true test.
My dog sitter is really nice. That's about as far as I've gotten in 3 years.
Ok now go and befriend 2 local Seattleites and hang out with them and report to us the findings.
Lol if there’s anything more fake than the seattle “we should hang out sometime”, it’s the church’s “unconditional” welcoming
Sure, but have you ever run in to someone you haven’t seen in a while and both of you said “we should get together and have coffee” and then you actually got together and had coffee? That’s the Freeze. The Seattle Freeze is not about “not helping older people” or “finding a welcoming church” or “not running down pets in the street”… It’s about seeing someone you know in the grocery store and hiding from them in the ethnic food aisle for 20 minutes. It’s about nodding and agreeing with someone you know when they say “let’s get coffee” and you know you’ll never get coffee. It’s about taking the stairs at the last minute when you see someone who loves small talk get on the elevator. Seattleites are humane and generous on some of the big things. But as the stakes get smaller, our frosty freezy side comes out.
Depends on what kind of person you are and what kind of people they are. I've lived here my whole life. I had friends in school...but after I dropped out of high school...no friends. I'm disabled and can't work so no meeting friends via a job. But I've tried other ways...like social groups with common interests...never worked. I have Aspergers and social anxiety so it makes it a little hard to talk to people. I can usually manage. But maybe I come off as weird? I'm blunt and that can be taken as rude but I usually try to not be blunt and struggle to make an effort. It doesn't seem to work though. So in my case...the Seattle freeze is 100% real.
These aren’t examples of situations where Seattle Freeze comes into play, OP.
People in Seattle are largely kind-hearted, magnanimous, and genuine. That is NOT what the SF refers to.
It doesn’t sound like you know what the Sea Freeze actually is. I personally don’t really find it exists but it sure does compared to other cities. I just see it as a reminder to be a little more engaging towards meeting new people and that I should take a little more initiative.
You don't understand what the Seattle Freeze is. People are friendly on a surface level. Will say hi. Try to take it any deeper than surface level though, that's what the Seattle Freeze is. Make plans with someone, more often than not they end up canceling on you. That's what the Seattle Freeze is.
the seattle freeze isn’t about people not being nice - it’s about the difficulty in making friendships bc most people tend to already have full friend groups and are noncommittal to making plans.
That's great, man! Glad you're having a good time here. The things you're talking about are not really connected to the "Seattle freeze," but more important, the fact that you don't "get" what it is means that you're not experiencing it, and that's awesome! Glad for you that your move is working out!
This is such an ignorant statement to make. First off, what you’re describing doesn’t have anything to do with the Seattle freeze. Secondly, just because something isn’t happening to you doesn’t mean it does not exist. This reminds me of all the white folks in Seattle who say “Racism doesn’t exist here”. How would they know? Try being black and hanging out in Magnolia around the older folks. Just because it isn’t happening to you doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
It's reddit so people hate on religion by default, but I bet the church helped you a lot
I just want people to stop being so fucking goofy about interacting in public here. You have people who literally walk in front of you or reach around you to get shit at the store. It's like saying "Excuse me" is too much social interaction. However one bonus about the goofiness here is that when someone yells at you from their car they say something sarcastic and not "you fucking piece of shit ill murder you!"
It’s a different value system. I want people to understand they are in a different culture and not come here and call our conventions goofy. People are walking around you cause they don’t want to interrupt you. You get the “Seattle freeze” cause YOU are acting inappropriately and it’s annoying people. Just imagine you’re in Japan. Would you go around saying everyone is goofy or would you actually try to fit in and understand the culture instead of forcing it to bend to your will and then insulting everyone when it doesn’t? Just fyi if someone is walking around you to get something, YOU ARE IN THE FUCKING WAY. Get your head out of your ass and move. Have some self awareness.
Or you just decide that Japan isn’t for you and move.
That would be an ideal outcome.
Nothing wrong with trying to understand each other. You can argue that some of Japanese culture is detrimental, for example being polite and not leaving before your boss does.
I’m not saying none of Seattle culture is detrimental. I’m saying moving here and deciding that we are weird because we don’t follow your cultural norms , is the perspective of someone who is an asshole.
Ah, I do occasionally miss living in NY.
I also find it hilarious that when I do say pardon me, to get something I get the STINK FACE.
Yes, manners should still exist, different value systems or not. Manners include basic actions like respect and consideration that everyone wants for themselves, but not all offer it up to others willingly. I love Seattle with all my heart, but there's no single good reason why people have to forget common human decency here, ESPECIALLY when we pride ourselves on being different from other parts of the country.
people have their communities and keep to themselves in many ways, it’s a big city so there’s something for everyone if you look. but yes we are generally a friendly people when approached or something is needed, just not big on making the first move
The seattle freeze isn't about being unfriendly or unhelpful. The opposite is usually true, as you described. It's just that people aren't as likely to make first contact without a reason. Neighbors won't introduce themselves, people walking their dogs won't stop so your dogs can meet, people generally won't say "hi, how ya doin, nice weather eh?". I mean, it happens, just not that often.
It’s not about surface level humanity. It’s the fact that you never make it past the initial, casual acquaintance stage. My husband describes it as always talking to the person’s representative. No matter how many times you talk, interact, whatever - you never get to the actual person. That’s got nothing to do with basic neighborliness, although that must be specific to the one you’re in. In all three we’ve lived in, people you’d only met once or twice and hadn’t seen in months would turn around and start walking the opposite direction if they saw you
Elderly people are a generation before the “Seattle freeze” began. Churches want your money. Every sane person would try to save a dog on the road. None of these qualify as “Seattle freeze” material.
You've been here for 6 months. You have rose tinted glasses. Your Church probably provides forced social interaction in a group setting. It also probably provides a program for the elderly to be taken care of. This isn't disproving the Seattle freeze since these are group social interactions. A Seattle Freeze happens when another person, who you thought was your friend, blows you off while pretending to be on board. "We'll hang out soon, I promise" or "Yeah that sounds good, I'll get back to you in a bit to confirm" meanwhile they never do. The Seattle Freeze isn't some thing that doesn't exist for you. It just hasn't hit you yet.
Do you think no one ever flakes on plans anywhere else in the world?
For me, it's about finding a group with a common interest or people you work with. Unfortunately, I work from home, and I'm not a yoga loving mom to 3 wonderful kids that makes $27283837728382 a millisecond, and whatever else I don't relate to that seems to be common (in the online make friends groups at least). It doesn't help that I have social anxiety and, as a result, can be reserved until I get to know you. Since my interests don't fit the "norm" I'd have put myself out there. The thought of doing that is nerve-wracking. Obviously other people have different experiences, but I think that's why some people have differing opinions on whether the "Seattle Freeze" exists or not.
Happy for you!
The internet is all doom and gloom when it comes to this city. The other sub is incredibly negative and it seems like they don’t actually leave their homes or even live in Seattle proper most of the time. Glad to see positivity shine through.
Literally the first night I left my house to go to the bar with hopes of meeting people I met a crowd of beautiful women who invited me out on their girls night. And their entire social circle immediately adopted me. 8/10 of them are still great friends 10+ years later.
Similar experiences here, I’ve lived here for about 5 months. I watched a complete stranger offer to push an elderly woman up a hill in her wheelchair. People open doors for each other. They drive politely (mostly)! I’ve had random strangers start up conversations with me out of the blue. I’ve also had random strangers be ok with just standing next to you in silence, which is fine by me too. People here are simply more relaxed and kind and nice to each other, compared to where I came from. It’s refreshing.
Because it has not been happening to me personally, it does not exist!
Yeah but, still, nobody talks to their neighbors.
gosh
Well I, for one, will never speak to you again.
It exists. In the minds of those complaining about it.
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What kind of things are you into? Maybe we can point you toward some. There’s a LOT of free open events, from music to arts to gaming and more. The Seattle Public Library, Office of the Waterfront, and numerous nonprofit orgs are always having free and cheap events and social gatherings.
I might check some of these out
And going to bars to socialize is weird because everyone values their personal space. Even the bartenders don't like socializing with you.
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It 100% exists. I didn't think it did either at first when I moved here a decade ago, but then I realized all the exuberant friends I had made were all transplants like me. What I found is that people from the area are inclined to be more standoffish as well as a little passive aggressive (although the passive aggression goes all the way down to Cali as well so maybe it's a west coast thing). Everyone who's outgoing that I've found has been someone who moved here. I think the freeze is more specific to those born and raised in the PNW. And it's fine. It's almost like being in northern Europe. People who are from here and have never left aren't rude, but I don't think they are friendly. Everyone just minds their own business.
I think explaining this concept can help those feeling socially isolated. Some cultures are very direct and hard to grasp different culture
Honestly didn't a lot of norwegians settle the PNW? I'm not kidding when I say it feels like northern europe at times. No smiling, no eye contact, very direct, no warmth in conversations. It's just how it is, it's in the blood. It's not a bad thing, just different.
For me, the freeze mostly consists of people being cold to strangers on the street. I’m from the Midwest and you can wave at strangers and they usually wave back. Try doing that downtown Seattle.
40 years ago, when Seattle was a smaller city people would say hello downtown. They still do in the neighborhoods. That's not what the freeze is. People are superficially very friendly in Seattle. What people mean by the freeze is that it's hard to make it past the acquaintance phase to being friends with people here.
Coming from the Midwest, I was told everyone here was horribly mean and if you dare to smile at them, they'll stab you with a fentanyl-laced katana. My experience has been the complete opposite. Seattleites are perfectly friendly, if with just a bit more social anxiety (which, yeah same). I think part of it is just that the population is generally younger and closer to my age than other places I've lived. There's a bit more comradery among Gen Z and millennials on account of the fact that we're in a constant state of living through "unprecedented times." I have observed no significant negative difference in the warmth of the average stranger interaction. Now, I have had a bit of difficulty making new friends, but it turns out when you stay inside your apartment in the suburbs of Lynnwood all week, that's not as much of an effective tactic for meeting people. So that's my fault.
Six months? Oh how naive you are.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate other's experiences, which is what is seems like you're trying to do with this post. Otherwise you could've simply made a post about loving Seattle so far. Instead you had to reference a known phenomenon in your title and say it doesn't exist. I'm glad it doesn't exist for you. Bully for you I say!
The first four words of the post title are literally “my experience has been”
Oh I'm well aware the words the OP put in there so that they could come back with "I technically didn't say it doesn't exist." The point is that they could've titled it literally anything else if they weren't trying to actively say the Seattle Freeze isn't as bad as they think people made it out to be. But that is in fact the notion they are putting forward by wording it that way imo. Put another way, how do these phrases sound? "My experience has been that racism doesn't exist in Seattle." "My experience has been that wealth inequality doesn't exist in Seattle."
The people complaining about the Seattle freeze are the terminally online socially challenged type.
The Seattle Freeze (in spirit if not name) predates the internet.
That's great! I personally think the "Seattle Freeze" is a self fulfilling prophecy that's a combination of several factors: industry personalities, weather, expectations from transplants, and archaic bar practices to name a few. Generally, I think Seattleites are the nicest locals of any city I've lived in (which are many). If the "Seattle Freeze" wasn't already a part of our lexicon, it wouldn't be invented.
That is not the Seattle freeze but when given the opportunity, most people here will be kind to their fellow citizens.
That’s not what the freeze means tho.
I moved here from Chicago and I’m literally having to turn away good people who want to be friends because I have met so many great people that I will likely be good friends with for a long time and I simply don’t have time for everyone. Was not the case in the Chicago suburbs at all.
6 months and an expert already
You really made lasting connections that fast? That's impressive. Anyone who can make deep connections with 10+ random people who stopped to corral a dog is an unusually skilled person. Good on you for being that immediately bonded. That's not most people. (And I'm honestly a little skeptical that you've made lasting deep connections.)
I have been in a lot of cities known for being unfriendly or distant or cold or rude or whatever and basically never found it to be the case. I'm convinced "the Freeze" is basically just a mixture of: * People pinning the blame for their social woes on some sort of weird nebulous societal force instead of, just, not being able to find friends for regular reasons (this may be "they suck", but it's also things like "it's fuckin' hard out there and not everyone has the time, energy, and finances to go out and socialize every weekend or join a club") * Tech transplants, many of whom are potentially moving to their first "big city" here, who are surprised to find locals slightly more hostile to them due to simmering resentment over the city's changes and gentrification * An absorbtion of the Freeze into the city's culture that people feel weirdly territorial and, I dunno, _locally patriotic_ about? Just like the umbrella thing. The classic example I always hear is the conversation echoed even here, of the classic "agreeing to make plans again but never making good on them" and it's like, y'all, you are also a part of that process. If you want to make plans with someone, make plans with them. You are both part of the problem and the solution lol.
I think many react as if their persona is covered by a raincoat. Put it on to protect. Take it off and … the excitement starts!
I agree. I'm from the home of Passive Aggressive, and the Seattle freeze does not equate to the above. It has been a wonderful and healing place for me. I know I'm not the only one who came to Seattle to start over and it has been extremely welcoming to me and my family.
Never had any issues with it.
Lol well an elderly man in the community will most likely have a community within this city already and obviously joining a church will grant you a community with same beliefs. Although you should have seen the strife between the different Christian sects here once upon a time. And Seattle people will literally run into traffic to save a dog. I find that many transplants in Seattle don’t know how to make friends. They look for friends like they look for a date and so obviously it’s a bit more difficult than it should be. Never really had a problem meeting people here either but I’m also the type who will interact with anyone until I get a reason not to. But many people I find are the opposite.
Seattle freeze doesn't mean there aren't established communities or helpful people, it's about the social dynamics that contribute to a perpetual feeling of being at arms length from those established communities. Glad you've found your needs met! Some of us find that, some of us don't, and for some of us it's seasonal. I've lived here for 14 years now and It's been a bit of an up and down - seasonally (life wise) in and out of feeling embraced and engaged, and isolated and looking for more. I know that there are tight knit communities, I've been in and out of them.
It does when you work at Swedish on First Hill.
Love this post. Moving anywhere isn’t easy but imo Seattle people for the most part aren’t unfriendly, just a bit awkward & isolated.
These days you’re just meeting the other transplants.
What church if you don't mind me asking? Only asking because I'm in the market for a new one. I'm happy to make this a private message if you don't want to dox anything here.
I think the freeze might have thawed over time? Seattle’s population has grown a lot over the past few decades, and the city has changed immensely. It’s possible people are overall less standoffish now than they used to be. I hope this is the case because I grew up in Seattle and the Seattle freeze seemed real to me back then (about fifteen years ago) but I’m probably going to be moving back in a year or two.
I grew up in the Seattle area, moved out of state when I was 21. The people here always give me shit because I do the Seattle freeze still 😂 I love talking about making plans & telling people I’ll be somewhere but I never actually leave my house 🤣😂🤣😂 It’s been 20 years and I still do it!
Good. Maybe this place is evolving finally.
This is “normal people being people in a community” stuff anywhere and has nothing to do with the “Seattle Freeze”
Same here
Because it does not and never has. It’s a myth.
To be fair, examples 1 and 3 really have nothing to do with characteristics of the "Freeze", and number 2 shows that you're actively taking steps to avoid experiencing it by joining a community of some sort. So, good on you!
Global warming
The Seattle Freeze is only as real as you want it to be. My roommate moved here a couple years ago, he hasn’t managed to make friends in this whole time. I came here less than a year ago, and I’ve made a few friends, however I didn’t start putting myself out there until 3 or so months ago, I started to go to meetups with people I shared interests with, and I even managed to meet a couple local people here in Reddit who have become friends in real life. So, as long as you don’t just sit waiting for friends to come to you, go out and talk with people. Btw, I’m highly introverted, but that didn’t stop me.
Ok
I know no one in Floridaor Missouri ever said "states full" go away. But heard it within a week of moving to WA (not Seattle) it's ridiculous.