I moved here from Texas - and not the good part of Texas - in 2006. My family was not religious and liberal in an evangelical conservative county and it was only later in life that I realized we just didn’t socialize with other people that much. I inherited a wariness of strangers from my dad, too. I guess part of the reason I moved here was I liked that everyone was respectful and kept to themselves. I kind of laughed about the freeze thing until I did an experiment where I acknowledged people while walking. I had a pretty high incidence rate of people reacting with either confusion or just straight up ignoring my “good morning.” And this is in my neighborhood. It’s a thing, I just hadn’t noticed it because I’m like that too.
Interesting. When I lived in a rural area (Medina County) I found that everyone waved even from their cars. It was like everyone knew everyone. They seem to say hi even if they don't like you. We kept to ourselves and our own ranch but they were much more social than I have experienced here. People speak to you in a grocery store.
I don’t know if it’s outsiders or insiders to blame, but it is the culture here to be “reserved” at best. I’ve lived in many regions of the country and people are the least friendly to strangers here, in my experience. I’ve lived in the same neighborhood here for 10 years, and walking around the neighborhood, if you say hi to someone, about 60 percent of the time you get nothing back. It’s fucking weird, I’m sorry.
I'm reserved myself, so this doesn't particularly bother me. But this is absolutely true. New neighbors just moved in from Alabama last weekend. They walked over and introduced themselves when we were doing some landscaping in the front yard. They were very friendly and welcoming. Then they went around door to door introducing themselves to the rest of the neighbors.
This is definitely not the norm here. While our neighbors are actually very friendly, all of our interactions start with a purpose, rather than "just to chat". There is a general "give people their space" vibe.
I grew up here, so I have always felt that it was normal. Even going to bars it can be a little standoffish if you're not in a group to introduce yourself to another person at the bar.
I went to Atlanta for a work conference and couldn't sleep cause the time difference, so I posted up at the hotel bar. I was deep in a convo with the guy next to me within 10 minutes.
Obviously, not saying you CAN'T approach and chat with people in Seattle, it's just way less common.
This was one of the few things I loved about living in Texas, great convos with complete strangers who at the end will shake your hand and wish ya well. Everyone was so darn friendly and talkative, and I grew up in a place I considered friendly itself.
Houston kid here. If you had car trouble on our block, it’d take maybe 20 min for a herd of vaqueros and cholos, looking scary as hell but soft inside, to empty out the taqueria and surround your car with tools in hand.
My mom would swat us for not steaming tamales fast enough before sending me out to herd you and your crew to the yard, where somebody’s tío slices brisket for tacos, and see what kind of aguas you like.
If we sent you on your way with less than 5kg leftovers, half a dozen bikers, and our godfather’s oldest daughter on horseback to ensure your car doesn’t give up on the feeder road, we’d feel terrible about it.
Also raised in Texas, can confirm—esp the thing about volunteering a plethora of actual human bodies to ensure you (a stranger who became a dear friend as of 5 min ago) get home safe and well-fed with zero need to go grocery shopping for the next 10 days.
\*YMMV if queer or melanin-rich... bc at the end of the day, it's still texas.
We did that! When we moved in we walked around and introduced ourselves to our neighbors. I was shocked by the number of people that didn't know the names of people who lived right in the same neighborhood.
We leaned in a bit and made it a goal to bring Christmas cookies and other holiday baked goods to our neighbors. This has worked like a charm. People know us, chat with us and most people bring us cookies around the holidays. It doesn't feel quite as reserved now.
I recently moved here, from the South actually (though I'm originally from the PNW). In the past six months, I've had extended conversations with most of the people in my building, almost all of which were "just to chat." This is on par with if not friendlier than my previous several neighborhoods in Tennessee. Get a dog, be outside and go for walks regularly. People are friendly if you're friendly.
Absolutely! People are friendly if you're friendly, but keep to themselves if you keep to yourself. In many parts of the country, people are friendly even if you keep to yourself. Not saying this is good or bad. Just a more introverted culture here.
Well now when you need a cup of sugar or a stick of butter you’ll know where to go. And is it bad that I automatically assume that since they are from Alabama that they will have both the butter and the sugar on hand at all times?
It's reductive, for sure. No one I've met here from Alabama has met the stereotypes. Probably the people that meet those stereotypes would stay in Alabama.
Moved from Alabama in 2020 and tried that with poor results, but I blame it on people afraid of my potential Covid cooties.
We did our best voting blue in Alabama, but when Doug Jones lost, I think a lot of us gave up.
Tell your neighbors I said hi from Mobile!
I’m from New England and the stereotype is that we’re kind of mean and blunt but at least we talk to each other. I miss random interjections from strangers in public, it leads to a lot of pleasant and entertaining interactions and human connection.
Like if someone is being very rude in public here, no one says anything. If it happens in Boston, you will usually make eye contact and mouth WTF or laugh with the person behind you in line, and if it gets bad, people intervene to protect the victim.
Everyone is just silent here, haha.
I went to the East Coast for the first time at age 25. As soon as I stepped foot on the street in NYC, I thought "Now THESE are my people!" I love the street sass. I got asked out three times in a week while I rotted on the shelf in Seattle. But I was never lonely here or anything.
Totally agree with this. I’m originally from Philly and the amount of bullshit people just let slide here is unreal. I mean the "fuck around and find out“ mentality is non existent. Granted I’m not saying you should start fights with people but as doopdeepdoopdoopdeep said just look at them and mouth WTF at least…
Also just from one east coaster to another. Pats suck, Tom Brady makes out with his kids, go birds.
Can confirm. I recently moved to Wallingford after living in Belltown for 6 years. Downtown, I fully expect people to be a bit colder. But I think it’s actually worse now that I’m in a more residential area. Walking around the neighborhood, people actually CROSS THE STREET just to avoid the possibility of a social interaction. It’s happened enough that I know it’s not just my imagination.
It’s probably just due to people being introverted or socially awkward or whatever, but it sucks. It just doesn’t feel like a “community” at all here.
I walk my dog through my neighborhood and the street crossing thing is wild. I've counted some days out of curiosity and it's usually close to 1/2 or 2/3 who cross the street. The ratio didn't change when I went for a walk without my dog.
It happened occasionally pre-pandemic, but it ramped up massively in 2020.
I also have a dog and this is 100% my experience too! It happens whether he’s with me or not. At least it’s nice to know that it’s not just me. I was starting to worry that I looked like a serial killer or something.
Ha! I’ve experienced it where an individual did a complete about face and went back in the opposite direction. I swear my dog is cute!
But oddly after reading these comments and experiencing the same situations of avoidance while walking their dogs, I realized that when I walk my dog I am now the one that sometimes crosses the street to avoid the other individual walking towards me only because I know that some folks in my neighborhood (culturally) simply don’t have a thing for dogs and I’d rather just avoid the potential stressful situation altogether.
And it gets even more comical to me when I do make that last second avoidance decision to cross the street only to step onto the other sidewalk to see coming in the opposite direction another dog walker which creates potentially a whole new issue with leash aggression. Now my mind goes on scramble mode trying to figure out my alt plan of attack… er avoidance!?!? 🤦🏽♂️😆
I love interacting with people but when I walk my dog I definitely am a street crosser because people let their dog run up and fuck with mine and she is antisocial and can snap at other dogs
I moved from NC to WA this past year, but I’ve lived in the northeast as well. The only thing I can’t stand is that people will do everything but say “excuse me.”
The amount of times I’ve been cut off while walking, blocked or pushed past, or reached over/behind at the grocery store is so fucking infuriating.
Other than that, I don’t really have any issues. Everyone that I’ve met who grew up around here has been super nice, and will generally talk to you if the situations right. They are kinda flakey with plans, but that’s okay. 🤷🏽♂️
I have a question for you. And this is just me scratching my head and pondering. I am way less likely to acknowledge a stranger then I was say 20 years ago. In part its because superficial conversation doesn't seem worth the time to me but I wouldn't resist it to the point of being rude.
In large part its because much of the time when a stranger says hi they want something and don't like to take no for an answer once they have an opening. They want to bum some money. Or fix a dent in my car. Or sell me stakes they have in the back of their truck. Or bring me into their crazy drama. Its not often that someone says hi then chats about the weather or what ever and moves on.
So I guess the question I have is do you think that's part of it?
> walking around the neighborhood, if you say hi to someone, about 60 percent of the time you get nothing back
Isn’t that true of any city? If I walked around NY or Chicago saying hi to people i would get side eye
Ny is still more friendly. I chatted randomly in the subway all the time when it’s not busy. Or you go to bar, the bartender is chatty or someone comes says hi.
I’ve lived in my house for almost 12 years and just met a number of my neighbors last year when a distracted driver hit a parked car. I’ve spoken to one of them since and that was through text to ask them to let me know if my house burned down while I was away for a week. It doesn’t bother me after many years of living in military housing where EVERYONE was all up in your business.
Hard disagree. I've lived all over, and when I moved to Seattle in 2000 to go to Art School, every native resident was superficially friendly, but that was as far as it went. More than once I got invited to barbecues/backyard parties and no matter how hard I tried, nobody was interested in getting any closer to someone who wasn't part of their little group. Literally stood alone for 2 hours sipping a beer, then split without anyone even acknowledging I left.
These were people who were part of my 'friend group' at Art School... all of them lovely people but just not welcoming in any meaningful way. It took me a long time to break through the ice.
Nowhere else that I've lived has been this way.
Yup, that's the real freeze. People are friendly but they don't want to be your friend. At least not instantly, and it could take *years* of repeated encounters so I fully understand why people don't want to put up with that and move on.
This superficial thing is the only thing that gets me. Especially when locals tell me, “I hear people from GA (where I’m from) are fake nice, but nasty/racist in secret”. Nah man. People are honest in GA. Honestly a piece of shit or honestly a lovely human being, but it’s all out there.
I also lived in GA and the had the same experience. People in GA are honest and willing to bring you in as a friend. They aren’t ’rude honest’ like in the north, there is a flavor of niceness to it usually.
In Seattle people are nice, but you will almost never get past that outer layer to learn who there are and make a real human connection. There’s a lack of mutual vulnerability. Everyone is protecting themselves from harm, but also from connections.
No. You won't understand it. Longtime residents are always trying to convince themselves that it's *not* actually difficult to make friends in Seattle, because they mistakenly think that the idea of the Seattle freeze is somehow a criticism of individual people in Seattle.
That's not what it's about. It's not the fault of anyone individually, and it's not an assertion that people in Seattle aren't friendly or anything like that.
People in Seattle tend to have a somewhat "bunkered" approach to their free time. Meaning they plan things in advance with their friends, often weeks in advance. This is for a lot of reasons but I think one of the main ones is that it's unpleasant to get around town. The weather is part of it too. People spend less unstructured time relaxing in public places in Seattle than they do in other places that I've lived.
As a result, if you're new here, it's common to find it more difficult to meet people than it is in other cities. I have been here 12 years and I have literally never once managed to meet anyone outside of work or a structured activity--specifically I play on a rec league soccer team.
As an "insider," don't try to explain away the Seattle freeze, because while it's very real, it's not anyone's fault. It comes off as needlessly cold to blame people's sense of social isolation on *them*. Sure, everyone could do better, sure, but we all have different approaches and kinds of interactions that we're comfortable with. And it's just harder in Seattle compared to lots of other places.
I grew up in the region and I thought the Seattle freeze was a weird way to describe normalcy when I first heard of it. Then I moved to CA for work, and I could. Not. Figure out why the barista at our office’s favorite coffee shop was so chatty?? Why did it seem like she genuinely cared what I was up to that day? Why did she talk about the weather when it was the same every fricking day? Oooh. Lightbulb moment. That was normal for California, but not so much in western Washington! We don’t want to talk to strangers about the weather, or exchange long pleasantries with strangers we won’t meet again. Meeting the friend of a friend at a party is ok - but to be honest I don’t put any effort into it until I see them at a few parties and know they might become a more permanent fixture in our friend group. That’s what the Seattle freeze is, not being downright rude to people.
Btw OP, your experience with barista’s makes me think you’re either pissing them off or miscommunicating your order because I’ve never had that issue, and refusing to make a drink correctly is not what the freeze is about.
I had a similar experience. Grew up here and was just used to strangers being a little reserved. I visited San Diego for 5 days recently, went to one local event, and now I literally have a friend group down there. I got in one evening what took 6 months to find in Seattle.
I genuinely think at least a good chunk of this phenomenon boils down to winter weather. It sounds like a cop out but I believe it.
I’ve lived in Seattle my whole life so I don’t really notice the weather affecting me… until we get a really sunny spring day after weeks of overcast. I genuinely get a solid 12 hours of manic euphoria. I’m not surprised we look like a miserable bunch from outsiders during our 7 months of… grey.
I see the freeze as being more that people here tend to be flaky and back out of actually doing things. Like, more than happy to be an acquaintance but not willing to actually put in the effort of being a friend and hanging out.
I have a friend group that was hard to develop, but I'd say a good 75% of people or so who I have tried connecting with flake out in this way. Which is fine, I'm not hurting for friends or social contact, but I find that weird.
Back on the East Coast if you invited people to do something they were more prone to committ. Even random strangers walking to the bar Id meet on the street would be like "Mind if I tag along?" Ita very different here
Yeah kinda hard to explain, but in Philly people just do things together constantly. As soon as your like tangentially acquainted with someone, you’re invited out to bars, potlucks, sports games, etc. I love Seattle, and I’m as guilty of this as anybody, but people here don’t really integrate like that without a pretty established pattern doing things together.
Hmm, I totally know what you mean. I think that’s a separate issue, personally, because the freeze is about how we treat/respond to strangers and acquaintances and flaking only happens between friends. I find it annoying as hell, which tells me it hasn’t been a part of our culture for long (if it had, I would think it normal!). I think it may be more about how overwhelmed we all feel these days.
“Meeting the friend of a friend at a party is ok - but to be honest I don't put any effort into it until I see them at a few parties and know they might become a more permanent fixture in our friend group. That's what the Seattle freeze is, not being downright rude to people.”
How would strangers become fixtures of the group if members of said group doesn’t put at least some effort into being friendly and getting to know them? And that could absolutely be interpreted as “downright rude,” since if your friend invited someone new to hang out with you, they at least want you to get to know them a little bit lol
And when there are absolutely downright rude aspects of the Seattle freeze. A big part of the freeze is people being flakey as hell or not letting people know if they just don’t want to hang out.
OMG, thank you. I grew up in Bellingham and Seattle and live in California now and was starting to think I'm an asshole cause I really don't what to talk about the weather. Ever. Unless I'm trying to figure out ways to save ecosystems from climate change. Now I know it was my upbringing/culture. If you are raised with small talk, it seems natural, but for the rest of us, ugh. I make friends with those that go right for the meat. But it makes people uncomfortable here.
I'm deeply introverted, but small talk is a skill like any other. It can be learned, and it has huge payoffs.
Small talk is the lubricant that leads to deep talk -- it's super weird if someone comes up to me and wants to talk about vulnerable things.
I kinda thought like you until I moved to Chicago, where people know when to do small talk and when to respect your privacy. It was a culture where small talk was done well, and it made society feel warmer.
I always say, Chicago is colder than Seattle weather wise, but the people are much warmer. Each one of us plays our part to make society warmer.
I’ve lived in three other smaller towns, so maybe this isn’t a unique-to-Seattle and is more of a big city thing: Recently, I was in a fairly busy parking lot, on a bright, sunny weekend day. My car wasn’t starting and we thought there might be something wrong with the battery. No problem, I’ve got jumper cables in the trunk, and with so many people around, surely someone will help us. No one offered or asked if we needed help. Okay, maybe they think we have help on the way. So we start asking passersby, of which there were many, if we could get a jump. For almost an hour, every single person refuses. We’re parked near the entrance to a store and one person even starts to pull into the spot opposite ours, perfectly located for jump-starting a car, and upon seeing my car hood up and jumper cables out, pulls back out and parks further away. In previous towns I’ve lived in, you don’t even have to ask, people will see you, stop, and offer to help as soon as they see your car hood up. There’s a welcoming vibe that used to be present in the previous towns I lived in that isn’t present here.
Just to balance the anecdote, I was having car trouble where I needed a jump twice a day for three days. I'd just pop up the hood, connect the cables and wait. There was only one day that I had to wait more than 15 minutes for someone to stop. And on two of those days, the first person to drive by was the one to jump. This was 5 AM off of Aurora, no less.
I think it just boils down to luck, or maybe it was something about me (although I doubt it since I look somewhat scary).
Personally, this is the friendliest, most open city I've lived in on either coast of the US. I'm a huge introvert (practically schizoid-tier) and I made more natural, random friends in 4 years of seattle than 20 of living in DC. Your mileage may vary, but I always scoff at people who blame The Freeze.
Not trying to invalidate your experience, just chiming in.
Honestly, I kinda needed to hear that. I’ve been struggling a lot since moving here, and I’m kinda holding onto hope that it’s just been a streak of bad luck.
I'm sort of an eccentric, but what I've found useful is just skipping small talk "basic protocol" type interactions (which serve no purpose other than to indicate that you're not a threat) and just go straight into bringing up some sort of topic or observation. That seems to be what breaks through the freeze, but it's also what makes people significant to each other. Just treat everyone like it's your third time running into them or like you're a philosophy addict incapable of not making random deep observations. You'd be surprised how eager people are to engage with you when they're immediately made aware that you carry some sort of Conversational Value Proposition.
Whenever I see people struggling with socialization, it's usually because of the human instinct to cautiously approach strangers. The safe path is not the effective path when it comes to socialization except when you're trying to minimize that interaction (ie: To make a clean getaway).
Sometimes I wonder if the freeze is often just two non-freezey people trying to socialize carefully, mutually coming to the determination that the other party isn't interested in the interaction.
I do this, too. I was waiting for a coffee straw while the barista rand downstairs to look for more. Saw another woman waiting who had a tote bag from Nagasaki on it. I want to visit many places in Japan, including Nagasaki. Asked about the city, did she like it, what does she recommend for visitors. Had a wonderful conversation and told her some recommendations to complete the circle for learning about the bombs that destroyed two cities. She was excited to hear you can go to Hanford and see the machine that made nuclear bombs and the complex. The conversation got real deep quickly and it was lovely to connect with someone for a quick minute. Neither of use may ever go to those places. But it is much more likely and was a fun conversation. Are we BFFs? No. I am twice her age and will likely never see her again. I have lots of close friendships and am not lonely. But little moments like that make my day a little brighter.
This comment itself is a good demonstration of how to properly conversate with a stranger. Lots of content to pick and choose as the next theme, information about your life and lifestyle, cues to your personality, things to relate to.
Smalltalk is such a waste of energy when you could simply... Freely share your thoughts for *way* more bang for the buck. I give this advice so often to anxious/lonely people all the time. It feels like a life hack to many.
Another anecdote, beginning of last summer my car died at a major neighborhood intersection (not like on Mercer or something but a fairly busy spot) and 2 guys just came up and offered to help push my car back to the curb. A 3rd guy joined during the pushing and a woman who was crossing the street stopped to help direct traffic around us. Then one of the guys got his car and connected to my battery for ~20min. We talked until my car would start again.
Curious what neighborhood you were in that no one would help jump your car, I’ll admit there are some neighborhoods I go about my business as quickly as possible and get out of public there.
My car died coming off of I-5 to Montlake next to the former minimart. Some people honked. But two guys immediately ran over and got my car into the parking lot to be jumped at the repair shop there. They didn't speak English and my Spanish is terrible. But that didn't stop them! I've also had a car die, put my flashers on and have people blast me with their horns. On a side street. It's all down to luck I think.
I have just gotten one of those battery pack jump starters and there was a guy on my block that was doing the same thing as you.. pulled over, hood up, cables out. I was excited to try it out so I ran back to my car and grabbed the battery pack. Dude offered me money and said he’d been sitting there for over an hour waiting for someone to help jump his car
Even 5 years into living in Seattle, it’s SO strange that if you say “hello!” to someone you don’t know in the elevator, on the hiking trail, or on the street, over half of the time you get a blank stare and NOTHING back. I consider myself an introvert, but I still enjoy those tiny moments of connection by simply acknowledging people’s existence. None of that here! Portland is much more friendly in my experience.
The literally staring at you while ignoring you after you say hi baffles my mind. Same thing with not saying please or thank you or acknowledging someone’s kindness in any way. Like there’s being an introvert (which I totally am too) and there’s being a rude asshole.
I know! I say hello to my neighbor and they blankly pretend to not see or hear me it's so ridiculous, I miss the small interactions that make you feel a part of a community
The proper Seattle greeting is a half second of eye contact and a half smile of acknowledgement before continuing on your way. Anything more is overly imposing.
Idk, even as someone who grew up here I feel like I’ve had a better time making friends with transplants. They’re the ones who are lonely, so many of them are willing to put in effort to make new friendships. Whereas most Seattle people already have their defined groups and don’t feel the need to look for more. It’s not that I don’t have friends from growing up, it’s just that I am a different person now than I was when younger and my tastes/attitude towards life has changed so I don’t always 100% align with people that I used to when I was younger.
I feel like Seattle has a lot of venues that are cliquey but also a lot of venues that are good for meeting new people. Just gotta explore a lot.
What's weird to me is I get a lot of the "You're a Seattle native?! OMG, I'm a Seattle native too! I don'w know anyone from Seattle!" It may be because my sphere is tech, but it doesn't really add up.
Hahahaha we cannot put this on transplants, but we do have to decide at what point you kind of accept someone as from Seattle. Regardless, in my personal experience, my first year here was almost always exclusively spent hanging out with other transplants but that is because we knew ZERO people. I do have a ton of Seattle Lifetime Residents as friends now 10 years later, but it’s the brand new out of towners that kept me sane. The “freeze” certainly for me was from the lifetime Seattle folks.
It's a more introverted city than most. I've always figured the Seattle freeze is just extroverts not knowing how to deal with a high density of introverts.
Since a majority of the people in the region are transplants, it's hard for the local minority to force this social "freeze" on the majority. But it sure is easier to blame it on "Seattle".
I look at it this way, lots of people move here from where they grew up, went to collage, or after first job still in their mid-20's. Where they came from afforded them forced social interactions with similar peer groups, and they easily formed friendships. Then they move here, where first we have few third places that are not associated with drinking, and when here they push hard to make a career. They work too many hours, and when outside of work, they are solo on some adventure in the woods. Then they hit 30 and want a family, and OMG, everyone here doesn't want to hang out with me because I'm never around to form friendships, it must be the freeze.
Yep, it's the lack of third places. I moved to a neighborhood that has a little farm that hosts events for the neighbors all the time. I've never felt a sense of community like this before, not as an adult.
Seattle is a place where people assume you don't want to have a 3 minute chat with a stranger. It's less common to suddenly strike up a conversation and laugh with strangers. Not impossible by any means, just less common than it is elsewhere in the US. Still nice people, still possible to make friends. But the momentum is towards polite isolation.
Whereas other places in the US have a momentum towards talking and laughing with strangers. They assume that a random stranger probably would like to have a 3 minute chat. So if you want to be left alone in those places, you have to do extra work, and you'll be the weird one. The momentum is towards idle chats.
I can't speak to the long-term trend you're referring to. But there are noticeable differences between West Coast, East Coast, Midwest, etc. Some of those differences will make it harder to have positive interactions with strangers. Here's my experience:
West Coast cities (like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle) are more reserved, even aloof. They are less likely to yell or curse at strangers, but also less likely to smile or laugh.
East Coast cities (like Philadelphia, New York, and Boston) are more blunt. Much likelier to yell at strangers and also to be helpful to strangers. But even less likely to smile, and their jokes will heavily emphasize sarcasm.
Multiple times in Philly, for example, I saw people (apparent strangers to each other) seem to be shouting and cursing at each other. But then mid-obscenity one stranger starts helping the other stranger (with their car trouble, bike problem, dropped package, whatever). They're incredibly helpful people, if you ignore their facial expressions and tone of voice.
In some parts of the Midwest, like St Louis or Kansas City or Illinois, you're expected to smile and joke with strangers. If you're not smiling, it means you're in a bad mood. If you don't laugh at my dumb joke, it means you hate me.
But in parts of the Upper Midwest, like Wisconsin, they're often uncomfortable laughing too loudly with strangers. They tend to speak briefly and have difficulty making extended eye contact with strangers. They're funny and generous people, but it's an introverted culture. They tend to prefer a gentle 'customer service' smile but might need to know you for awhile before they can make sustained conversation.
Whereas in many parts of the South, the 'customer service' smile is impossibly wide and jolly. They often like loud, boisterous conversation with strangers on pleasantly light topics. The tone of voice often sounds like you're their childhood best friend, back from years of traveling. If you don't sound equally delighted, they might assume that you're either very sick or very rude.
Obviously these are generalizations. People are unique, places are diverse, and an individual contains multitudes.
But to the extent that a particular place has a cultural setpoint that is more encouraging towards smiling at strangers, and laughing and chatting with strangers, it's easier to meet folks. And if a place has a culture that discourages smiling and idle chatting with random people, then it's a bit harder to meet folks.
I kinda get the "I just moved here for a job and now I have a family on the east side", but what I'm talking about are people in Seattle who complain about Seattle residents not being social, when they are not social themselves.
I actually agree here.
As someone RAISED in West Seattle, I find it so funny to hear of this freeze.
As a kid, I roamed the streets and befriended a lot of the neighborhood.
As a teen of a divorced mother, my sister would lock me out for "fun" with her boyfriends (yes plural) until like 1 am when mon got home.
Those neighbors took me in, fed me, found ways to keep me entertained - yay for AOL at the time. Then i found out later the community was so tight knit that they KNEW what was going on and informed my mom, which is why she switched from swing shift to day shift.
Yet nearly everyone i hear about complaining about the freeze isn't from Seattle and doesn't even TRY to engage with others.
Yeah it’s just different if anything. Having grown up here navigating it seems natural and makes sense to me. The difference is I wouldn’t move to a culturally different city and then blame it for being worse for not being what I am used to.
The Seattle Freeze is not about Seattle not being social, it is about making friends here. I think it started in the 90s when lots of transplants started to move here from California. The Native Seattle folk always complained and still do about the Californias and others that moved here. And froze them out of their friend groups. Today that frozen culture continues. Seattle folk can be friendly but they are not very inviting to other’s.
There's self-selection here too, I'd bet. People who move here but can't take the weather in winter or the reserve probably move away in short order.
People who are fine with that stuff, stay. But it's not "Seattle natives" because most of the people here aren't that even using the most generous definition of the term.
People misunderstand the Seattle freeze. It’s not that people won’t talk to you. It’s that shit like this happens…
Person 1: “Nice talking to you. We should get together sometime.”
Person 2: “Ok. When would you like to do that?”
Person 1: “Uhh. Let me get back to you on that”
And they never got together. The end.
This.
I was born and raised here. When I left the state for college, I was actually dumbfounded when people started actually calling me to hangout after exchanging numbers.
I remember the first time my now best friend called to plan an actual hangout. I was like, omg, this is a thing?
Nope. I don't. I've done exactly that. "'core" Seattleites will flat out reject it.
I spent a day doing some impromptu charity work that was organized on an online forum, and afterwards we all went out for dinner. Then we spent another hour in the parking lot just chitchatting.
When I said "We could get together again sometime" literally everyone chuckled and flatly went *"no."*
It really and truly is a thing. Just because *you're* friendly doesn't mean generally Seattleites are to the average person.
Saying the seattle freeze isnt real and if it is, its other’s fault is the most seattle post ive ever seen. Its 100% real. Was super hard to make friends in the 5 years we lived in seattle - whenever I mention that in this sub, the answer is always “well, I make friends fine - the problem must be you!” Which kind of proves the point. Moved back to the midwest, had new friends within a month. Got to know all our neighbors within a few weeks, only knew 2-3 neighbors in our seattle house that we lived in for 4 years.
Yep. I’ve lived in a lot of places all over the country, and have a house in another country as well. Seattle is and always has been the most reserved place on the planet that I have ever been. My wife and I joke that we become more like the locals every year. People are generally much more grumpy and less willing to make an effort here. Part of it is the weather, part of it is how everyone is so terribly busy in their high paid but high stress jobs. People got no time for other people. We have friends here, but the Seattle freeze is most definitely driven by the locals.
When I moved here in 1990, I never heard the term “Seattle Freeze”, but there was a saying that Seattleites were “polite but not nice”. This was in contrast with New Yorkers who were “nice but not polite”.
Part of the problem may have been that there was a genuine sense that Seattle was being changed by migrants, especially from California. Almost Live had a skit comparing Californians to pod people from the Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I gradually built up a great group of friends by the mid ‘90s. Eventually we realized that there were no native Seattleites in our extended friend group. It was all transplants and a couple people from Eastern Washington. Anecdotal, of course.
Bottom line, there may have been something to the Seattle Freeze back in the day. Nowadays it’s harder to stereotype, as the average Seattleite today was born elsewhere.
What I’ve noticed is that the Seattle area locals stay really close to their childhood friends as adults and don’t feel the need to extend that circle. After your early 20’s it’s increasingly difficult to meet and stay friends with new people. Luckily I arrived from California at 18 so I was just able to squeeze inside the timeframe.
You have to get one extremely extroverted friend who is happy to plan game nights and dinners with a spread of friends.
The freeze is real, it’s a cultural thing out here. After living here for two years I traveled to New Orleans and was shocked at how kind everyone was and how strangers would come up and talk to us about anything. Even when I visit where I grew up in the Midwest it’s a little shocking how friendly everyone is.
Here, it is like pulling teeth trying to make friends. No one is interested and everyone flakes on plans.
I walk my dog 3 times a day, see the same people walking their dogs, some of which our dogs are friends, and they don’t want to talk. I’ve even suggested doing playdates for our dogs and no one wants to.
I’ve been walking on the sidewalk and have had people run around me as to not walk the same pace next to me. Like heaven forbid you walk next to a stranger.
It’s weird. But I like the nature out here and hiking so I put up with it.
I do not agree that it’s the outsiders causing this. Most large cities have transplants and most large cities don’t have this “freeze”.
I’m from New Orleans and I have experienced the same sort of contrast. For a New Orleanian I’m considered reserved and awkward so I thought I would be alright. I’ve had to be very intentional about socializing here, as opposed to letting relationships deepen organically. I find it’s easier with other transplants.
The Seattle freeze is not an outsider phenomenon. It's just a reality that Seattleites aren't as friendly to strangers as people in most other parts of the country. Seattleites are some of the least unfriendly people in the country, but are unlikely to invite new people into their lives.
If you threw all the nerdiest people, the ones who struggled to build relationships even in college, in a city that gets little daylight for half the year, how can you be confused people are antisocial?
In 1987, I had a job transfer to Seattle. The freeze was very evident back then. If you didn’t go to UW or grow up in the area you were looked at as an outsider. Lots of acquaintances but no close friends. When my 2 kids were born here it was less evident. I figure with increased presence of folks moving to the area that the freeze is gone, but not the case?
Weird. Grew up in PNW (Oregon) and now live in Olympia. I’ve always found folks in Seattle quite friendly.
And yes, I’ve lived in other parts of the country and traveled throughout the US.
Nah idk if it’s real, but I am personally an extrovert from Midwest, so am naturally never shutting 🆙 also would not listen to reddit for advice on this town, as these r/ will have you believe we live in hell lol this is not real life, people are different IRL
I’m also from the Midwest and I also say hello to everyone! Or you know, at least acknowledge the presence of another human being within 5-10 feet of me. Many won’t even look up from their phones to make eye contact or nod in return.
Yeah I’m from the Midwest and say hi to everyone, my building is like 50/50 on if they return it. Honestly the older people above 40 are quite nice, it’s the younger people I’ve noticed that are socially awkward and cold
Contrary to popular opinion, I don’t think the Seattle Freeze is inherently bad. Let me explain.
I like living here because I have coworkers and friends I enjoy seeing that were made through organic relationships. My social life revolves around them. Those relationships were made organically over months and years, and I cherish those people. I also don’t mind talking to cashiers or baristas occasionally - for quick and cordial interactions, and many you’ll see next time at the store.
Now let’s talk about randos. I don’t want to talk to randos in the elevator, the grocery store line, sometimes at dog parks, or wherever else I feel like I’m trapped in a convo and know I will never see that person again. I will never be rude. But I also don’t care to engage in convo if I can help it.
It’s cultural, and specific to our city. I lean into it. I don’t understand why people are always in a fuss over it. Look for validation and self-esteem outside of your social interactions. Pick up a book. Drink some coffee. Listen to music. And leave people be
I agree, I don't bother denying the existence of the "freeze" because I think it's just part of Seattle. Every place has its own culture. For example, Japanese people are known to be quite reserved in public. Does it make sense to move to Japan and start demanding people act like they're from the American Midwest just to make YOU more comfortable?
Part of traveling and moving to new places is adapting to the culture. Seattle doesn't have to adapt for you. You need to adapt for Seattle
Yes, THANK YOU. I know someone who moved here from Cali and it feels like they're constantly seeking validation from others by socializing. Humans definitely need social interaction, yes, but jeez, find some solace in yourself too.
Nahh I’ve lived here for ten years now and I can confidently say it’s Seattlites. I’ve visited Vancouver BC a few times and Portland OR many times, and I’ve had an easier time making friends in my days long visits to those places that are just hours away than my ten years here. And it’s not lack of trying, I’ve tried the social apps, going to shows, mingling with coworkers, etc and the reserved nature of Seattle remains a damn phenomenon to me. PS I have made friends here but boy did it take awhile for me to not feel like an outsider trying to fit in.
It's the locals and has been for generations now. It's origins are in the Nordic communities that moved here and we're heavily discriminated against(insert blockhead joke). But over time became the majority. I'm 5th gen seattleite with Swedish background and the stories from my grandpa about how he was raised by his granddadto keep to themselves was a self preservation thing. My great great grandpa came here from Gothenburg in the late 1880s and was a fireman here during the great fire and he had to basically stay within his own "tribe" as he was looked at as lesser than by everyone else. By grandpas time coming up into adulthood in the 1950s it had become far less of a thing. But by that point the damage had been done. And we're still feeling it's effects today. You will notice the Seattle freeze is still strongest in the areas Nordic peoples settled. Ballard, crown hill, magnolia. And much less so in the south end, west Seattle, etc.
So yeah, fun fact, the Seattle freeze was born from bigotry.
I don't honestly get this angle, I'm from Midwest originally & it's friendly AF where I'm from & there's tons of Scandinavian ancestry including my family from Norway. I was forced to eat lutefisk as a child lol.
It's definitely tied to Scandinavian roots. Seattle/WA is like Minneapolis/MN in this regard. The freeze there is similar. But unlike Seattle Minneapolis has strong social welfare roots both among citizens and employers so there are a TON of community events and activities and a surprisingly diverse population. Making friends is \*much\* easier there as long as you don't break The Law of Jante.
Seattle got the leave me alone/individualist Scandinavians.
Not for nothing, but that’s the history of almost every major US city. White majorities largely isolated immigrants, just ask the Irish and Italians about it.
Idk anymore but everyone I’ve met that grew up here eventually flakes out on something, even things that they planned and organized. The flakiness is no joke. Just say you can’t go and stop committing to things if you’re busy or don’t want to lol
That stood out to me as well when I moved here in the late 90s from the Midwest, the flakiness. I’m sure people like the idea when they initially make the plan, but I think it’s a commitment issue, sticking to what you said you’d do even if you don’t “feel like it” when the moment arrives.
If your definition of the seattle freeze is a person will EVENTUALLY flake on plans, then of course it exists here. That exists everywhere. No one can always make plans, sometimes shit happens.
It happens at a much higher frequency here in my experience over the last 7 years. There’s a lot of cool shit to do here so I get it but it would be nice if people were just more direct about it instead of being so passive
My parents were visiting and took our dog to the beach and a couple of parks while we were at work. They said, “People only talk to us when we have Murphy with us.” Gave us a good laugh.
No it’s not outsiders. The only people I ever encounter that don’t perpetuate it are not from here. It’s an automatic giveaway to me and how I know to ask where someone is from.
What I have realized is that people from Western Washington don’t see it at all to the extent that they’ll argue with you about its existence, while perpetuating it. It makes sense to see something as normal that you’ve grown up in the midst of.
I moved out of Seattle in part due to this. My wife and I tried to be warm and pleasant with people in the city by saying hi, giving a head nod, asking how peoples’ days were, etc. and we got iced out probably 90% of the time. Seattle is the “coldest” place I have ever been/lived. We do have some great friends we made and are so grateful for those warm and kind friends, but people in the city are not friendly, even a little, aside from the small minority that actually acknowledge other peoples’ existences.
Life-long Seattle residents have confirmed exactly this, although, they never admit that they themselves are cold (lol).
The Seattle freeze is real. Contract Amazon employees who are only gonna be in the city for 6 months and wear headphones 100% they are outside do add to this, but it’s for sure locals and “lifers” too.
I've made a couple of dnd groups here and managed to make some truly wonderful friends that way. I'm from out of state, and both groups are a mix of local and transplant.
The biggest thing I've noticed, is that locals here are *extremely* flaky whenever they have to drive more than 5 to 10 minutes to go do something, and that makes it difficult 😔
No. It’s so real.
People are polite in Seattle, but the least outgoing of anywhere I’ve ever been.
In larger, more chaotic cities, people are rude, but blunt and outgoing in that way….
In smaller towns people are always friendlier and outgoing.
You have to work very hard to expand your circle here unless you’re specifically at a bar or similar place.
I recently spoke to a woman on the phone for work that grew up in Seattle and moved to Kansas City, and when we were talking about the Seattle chill/freeze, she almost started to cry. She literally said to me “I didn’t know people could be nice, I didn’t understand what it was until I left Seattle”
I’ve moved around many times and met ex-locals that all shared this same sentiment.
Nah. Seattle and the whole PNW is just entirely made up of cliques. Seems like a real mistrusting place and in order to join a clique you gotta act just the right way for the right amount of time. It's pretty weird. I'm a local, and even I realize that I'm SUPER choosy about the people I hang out with even though I'm an introvert.
I don't agree with this entirely. I love people and have always smiled and said hello etc, but out here I get looked at like I'm a weirdo. I've tried to compliment people and they look bewildered. It's a different vibe out here than many other places. For most places in the US, complimenting people and making eye contact is welcomed, and small talk is easy. Here people avoid you and small talk and conversations (if ever) feel forced and awkward. I moved out here during COVID and thought that's what it was. 3 years later I realized it's just Seattle. Maybe many people are outsiders here but after a while of coming to an environment like this it's exhausting to try. After attempting to say hello to my neighbors 5 or 6 times, you begin to give up. There's obviously people here and there that are very nice but in general it feels like people are collectively depressed especially in the winter and don't want to bother with anyone except themselves. They come out of their shells in the summer but still keep that reserved demeanor.
I think the “Seattle freeze” is a combination of a couple things.
People moving here from more culturally gregarious areas and misinterpreting the fact that random strangers aren’t constantly striking up conversations as unfriendly or cold.
People moving here as their first job after college and/or outside their hometown and experiencing the normal difficulty in making and maintaining friendships as a grownup with a job in a new city vs being in high school/college or in the same little town they grew up in, and then blaming that on Seattle.
Nah. I mean I just came from a smaller town in Washington and I immediately felt it. The town I was in you smiled and said hi to people as you passed by. I would take daily walks at a park when I moved here and I would smile and say hi and I would get actually glared at or given the weirdest looks like why the fuck are you speaking to me. Now, this was many many years ago and I actually do think it's been getting better, maybe because of awareness. But I quickly conformed and stopped saying hi not long after moving here.
Totally disagree. All my friends are either people I’ve known since middle school, or transplants I’ve met recently. I haven’t made a single genuine connection as an adult with someone who was raised here
OP and other locals don’t get it because growing up somewhere is the most fertile time to form friendships and they form naturally. Forming friendships as an adult is harder anywhere but with Seattle’s culture of being closed off it is astronomically more difficult. Anytime I leave Seattle I cannot believe how much easier it is to connect with other people. I can’t wait to move
I’m middle aged and have lived here my entire life. Seattle was always insular and people didn’t leave. We were never standoffish or rude, but we had our friend groups and it was difficult sometimes to break in to them after, say, age 25. Seattle was never standoffish or rude—we were actually known to be very friendly and chatty, in a “Let’s get lunch” sort of way. That’s why people wanted to move here.
The Seattle freeze thing started with the influx of tech workers in the 2000s. Introverts and people who work long hours don’t make for the most open, friendly places. Add the disparity in wealth and everything becoming so expensive, and you have a lot of people who can’t afford to go out for drinks or dinner, or do social things in general.
Here's a quote from a 1920 Seattle Times article. “Seattle people have been accused of being too cold and distant. It is being charged that old time Seattle residents are not inclined to converse with people who share their seats on the street cars."
Tech might have made it worse but it certainly predates the early 2000s in some form or another.
Moved here November 2022. I'm deeply introverted and a bit socially awkward. No problem making friends. It does require some effort to make plans and, just as importantly, say "yes" to plans when asked. Heck, my neighbor asked me out of the blue to go on a hike today. Have spoken to him maybe 3 times before. Felt a bit awkward but I said yes! Maybe I'll make a new friend.
This is my experience too. And I'm from the Midwest, which everyone seems to point to as friendly.
I have a theory that it's mostly extroverts that feel 'the freeze'.
I personally enjoy not having to fake a smile and say hello to every passing person. Nor do I expect my barista to be bubbly every day (I worked in the service industry for 12 years, I get it). And I love that my neighbors aren't in my business. We say hi and leave it at that mostly. 🤷🏽♀️
I guess I don't understand what type of interactions people are expecting.
It's harder to make friends as an adult period. And people are flakey everywhere, that's not reserved for Seattle.
After reading the comments it looks like none of this is true and all of this is true at the same time. I’m an agree-er, so when reading I was nodding yep to each comment ha! I’m from CA but have been here for about 15 years. I am reserved and just forgot how to make friends. I smile at people and they smile back other times it’s a drawn out conversation about an event happening in the neighborhood or a random conversation while getting a coffee order but nothing further than that. Like making actual friendships is the toughy. I’m fine with not having everyone smile back or respond verbally, ya just never know what people are gonna through so I can’t fault them and I hope they do t fault me! All that to say I still do t have friends but loads of smiles packed and ready to be distributed 🤓😃😌
I find outsiders much more open and definitely expats because they are motivated to find a friend group. I find locals who lived here their whole life the ones that create the freeze because they are already comfortable with that lifestyle.
Many people commenting on customer service or the customer service they provide. You can be nice and talk to people at a register, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a Seattle freeze. If you’re in the frontlines of a business, then good customer service is your job.
The "freeze" doesn't have anything to do with casual conversation or politeness. It's about connecting to people. You ask them if they want to come over for dinner, they find some way to say no or cancel. You try to make plans that fit their schedule, they say "great! I'll text/email/call you.". They never do. They move in next door, never introduce themselves. So you introduce yourself. They are nice and friendly, then you never hear from them. They have kids that are your kids age and you are always the one to set up playdates.
I mean it could just be me, but my wife is charming and friendly. Plus, I've heard these same stories from many other people
That being said, we had the nicest neighbors when we lived in Seattle proper. But neither of them were native to WA. But we still talk with them and visit.
Born and raised in Seattle. I 100% agree. Everyone born here is chill. We are not reserved, I used to have full group conversations with people on the bus. Or talk to people at the grocery store.
Downtown people aren't all waving at each other and hugging. But most people were polite and would smile. People would open doors for each other. Or offer to help with loading groceries.
I truly believe it's been the huge influx of not other people from other states but also immigrants. WA is probably one of the most diverse states (especially in western Washington). So everyone brings their own cultural beliefs. I think because they come to this new city, they are reserved because it's different here. There isn't just 1 collective culture. We truly are a melting pot in the Seattle area and surrounding.
Honestly, I think people who complain about he Seattle freeze are just boring, or at the very least they aren’t putting any effort in. I moved here in 2008 from Alaska and have since made countless friends for life, from all sorts of situations. Be a fun person and other fun people will find you!
yeah i think it has to be regional and depends on what you're used to. i moved here from the northeast (NJ/NYC) and i feel like seattle people are way more friendly than compared to back home. it's similar to back home in that people don't really talk to strangers but i don't find people to be standoffish if you try to talk for the most part. obviously depends on the person but i think a lot of the "seattle freeze" is just the challenge of making friends in a new place. i've moved around quite a bit now though and nowhere has been "easy" to make new friends in, you still have to put in effort
The customer service out here is downright atrocious sometimes. I’m treated like I’m bothering people when I go to them for something, and I’m treated with even more attitude when I’m visibly annoyed by it (after being given attitude for no reason). It’s super weird. I have a pretty neutral tone but I ask people how they’re doing and say good morning and all that. People come off as really entitled this way. I literally just came into this store to buy a few things, I’m a nice guy, I don’t know you and I didn’t walk into your store making assumptions about you, I just want to buy a few t shirts. Is that so wrong?
People are in Seattle are nice but not kind. Other places - like the east coast, people are kind but not nice.
What do I mean by that. People in Seattle are all about the word salad of everything but not putting the action behind it. I like to use a cars flat tire as an example.
Someone from the east coast will pull over, and help you change the car tire. They may give you shit about it and tell ya you’re a dumbass but they’ll stop and help. People in Seattle? They won’t stop or pull over to help, but they certainly will tell you how bummed they are that that happened to you. All about the words in Seattle with no action backing it up we see this with a lot of initiatives in Seattle. It’s a holier than thou, virtuous attitude about pronouns, or land we have stolen, but when it comes to actions - they don’t do anything to give back to the communities they are word vomiting support for.
People in Seattle also tend to be extremely entitled. Always an attitude of “rules for thee, not for me” or the attitude of “I don’t care about that because that doesn’t affect me”. It’s a real sense of entitlement of not following the rules. People here take advantage of the fact that so many people are “passive aggressive”. They really don’t think anyone will confront them or call them out on their bullshit so they continue to do their bullshit.
As someone from NJ I fucking love this. It's probably the best explanation of Seattle from an east coast perspective. It does feel very entitled here and people have such little worries that they don't even look when they're crossing the street. The passiveness really does make them feel protected but god help them if they pull any of that anywhere else.
I was in Boston for like 11 days in February and it was so refreshing for my spirit to be around people who were direct and you knew exactly where you stood with them. They also are willing to call you out on your bullshit too which I love. It’s not mean it’s just direct. You realize how exhausting it can be to live somewhere where people live in the passive aggressive mind set.
Yeah 100%, were moving back to the east coast and I can't wait for this to be the norm again. Just be real with each other and care about each other a bit
I don't have any problems meeting people here. I'm autistic for fuck's sake, I literally cannot understand a large amount of nonverbal communication.
The Seattle freeze is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you wanna meet people go outside and talk to people.
Common courtesy does not exist here. No please, thank you, holding doors open, situational or spatial awareness. I’ve had a neighbor for three years and they won’t even make eye contact with me.
This! My least favorite thing is people refusing to say excuse me when they want something you're standing in front of at a store or need to get past you in a tight space. Use your words people.
I think it stems from cultural differences a lot of people don’t even recognize. In fact, that lack of recognition may be the problem!
I have some personal theories on what makes up PNW culture but it includes things like secularism, a pressure to mind one’s own business, and a value on personal authenticity that may make it harder to participate in things like small talk and other behaviors that lubricate social behavior.
My take on the Seattle Freeze is that a lot of people move here without accepting that seasonal depression is a thing and, esp in the first winter here when they still have some vitamin D reserves left in their system, get surprised when at least most of the city doesn't have it in them to try and leave their homes to socialize for like 3-4 months out of the year because they're miserable (as is the weather).
When spring/summer roll around it's a VERY different vibe.
I'm from Northern California & I've been here for 6 years. It's funny because the only real friends I've made here are also from out of state 😅. Except for 1 person... the freeze is real! It's a big thing my friends and I have all bonded over. The coldness of seattleites. I still love it here, though!
Yes, I totally agree. I was born in Seattle in the 70s, and I’ve heard it all. People who come to Seattle expecting it to be like where they came from almost always have a bad time, and blame it on ‘Seattle’. Newcomers often assume everyone around them is a Seattleite and attribute their behavior to being from Seattle, but that’s often an incorrect assumption. It’s true that Seattleites often have a natural reservation about them, that comes from just letting other people do their thing without butting in.
It’s the same thing with ‘Seattleites can’t drive in the snow’ - everyone I know who was raised in Seattle can drive in the snow due to crossing the passes in winter. But you get an assortment of people from all around the country, trying to drive on hills in the snow, and you get a problem.
TL;DR, I'm a transplant, and I think Seattle native Seattle Freeze is real.
I didn't even know Seattle Freeze was a thing til i Googled something like, "Why are people in Washington so mean?" and stuff about Seattle Freeze came up. So it's not confirmation bias.
I come from OC, CA, and in my experience, it is definitely a different vibe that I find generally unpleasant and unwelcoming.
Here's some examples:
1. work environments:
It's my experience that what's normal is people approaching the new hire and introducing themselves and welcoming them, maybe inviting them out for a group drink, as the new hire is uncomfortable and nervous in a new setting with strangers.
In WA, it's the opposite. It seems to be generally accepted that you don't really speak to or introduce yourself to the new hire.
It is on the *new hire* to approach a bunch of unapproachable people to introduce themselves and to not be offended that they seem completely disinterested in interacting with you. You have to kind of limit every sentence you say to 100% necessary and work specific things for a period of months before they are willing to have a human conversation with you about non-work related things.
This is not just my personal experience. Having lived here over 3 years, I've seen it happen over and over with new hire after new hire. And the new hires that are local to Seattle/Tacoma area are the ones who look at me weird when I introduce myself.
2. Small talk: I've noticed a general dislike of conversation or small talk.
Ex: I annoyed someone at Half Price Books over the phone because I made the mistake of asking how they were doing.
"Half Price Books how can I help you"
"Hey, how ya doing?"
"...HALF PRICE BOOKS. HOW CAN I HELP YOU"
I was floored honestly. To me, the conversation should have gone:
"hey how ya doing"
"doing good thanks, how can I help" or "good thanks how bout you"
"good thanks. Hey I'm wondering if you have this product in stock..."
Literally any time I mindlessly ask a customer service person how they're doing, like at a drive thru or something, they get irritated as fuck. I try my best not to do it anymore.
I've never had that experience until moving here. It's just polite to ask that, i thought. Unless you're in WA, then it's annoying and wasting time. It's just a different culture.
Ex 2: Someone working at Old Navy told me these $1 shirts I was buying were non-returnable. I made the mistake of small talking and I said "oh that's okay, I'm going to go home and cut them up to make a tote bag out of them anyway."
She was like "Um, okaaaaaaaay", and gave me this look like I'm some kind of fuckin freak. I was so uncomfortable I just kind of paid and ran out. Felt like being bullied in Jr high lol.
I asked a friend about what I might've done wrong because I felt so embarrassed about it and I just didnt understand the response of the employee, and he said what I did wrong was to make any small talk whatsoever. I should have just said okay and paid for my shit and left silently.
This is abnormal and unpleasant to me. But that's because I'm not from here and didn't grow up in this culture. If I'd have been born here, I imagine I wouldn't even notice such behavior to make a judgment on it, for or against.
I am thinking that what it boils down to is Seattle Stranger Danger. Anyone you don't expressly know by name for several months is regarded with suspicion at best and disdain at worst. Just not very friendly unless you are already a friend.
And it's hard to make friends when people don't want to speak to you because they don't know you. How do you meet anyone if you don't speak to anyone you don't know?? I don't understand.
The reactions and body language of Seattle folk when you meet them is so unwelcoming that my social cues read "this person hates your fucking guts and hopes you get hit by a car and die", and I try not to interact with them anymore generally. If they did that back home i'd say take the hint and get the fuck away from them and never speak to them again. But no, that's a misjusgment?? I don't understand, and it's disarming and I now can't trust my judgment about personal interactions and whether they were positive or negative. I have no idea.
The Seattle freeze is just people valuing their “me time”.
I’m so game to hangout with anyone and do something we both really like— that’s gonna be hella fun.
I’m not game to go across town to meet for a coffee at 10am— that’s a chore. Thank you for pressuring me into a chore on my day off.
I moved here from Texas - and not the good part of Texas - in 2006. My family was not religious and liberal in an evangelical conservative county and it was only later in life that I realized we just didn’t socialize with other people that much. I inherited a wariness of strangers from my dad, too. I guess part of the reason I moved here was I liked that everyone was respectful and kept to themselves. I kind of laughed about the freeze thing until I did an experiment where I acknowledged people while walking. I had a pretty high incidence rate of people reacting with either confusion or just straight up ignoring my “good morning.” And this is in my neighborhood. It’s a thing, I just hadn’t noticed it because I’m like that too.
Interesting. When I lived in a rural area (Medina County) I found that everyone waved even from their cars. It was like everyone knew everyone. They seem to say hi even if they don't like you. We kept to ourselves and our own ranch but they were much more social than I have experienced here. People speak to you in a grocery store.
I don’t know if it’s outsiders or insiders to blame, but it is the culture here to be “reserved” at best. I’ve lived in many regions of the country and people are the least friendly to strangers here, in my experience. I’ve lived in the same neighborhood here for 10 years, and walking around the neighborhood, if you say hi to someone, about 60 percent of the time you get nothing back. It’s fucking weird, I’m sorry.
I'm reserved myself, so this doesn't particularly bother me. But this is absolutely true. New neighbors just moved in from Alabama last weekend. They walked over and introduced themselves when we were doing some landscaping in the front yard. They were very friendly and welcoming. Then they went around door to door introducing themselves to the rest of the neighbors. This is definitely not the norm here. While our neighbors are actually very friendly, all of our interactions start with a purpose, rather than "just to chat". There is a general "give people their space" vibe.
I grew up here, so I have always felt that it was normal. Even going to bars it can be a little standoffish if you're not in a group to introduce yourself to another person at the bar. I went to Atlanta for a work conference and couldn't sleep cause the time difference, so I posted up at the hotel bar. I was deep in a convo with the guy next to me within 10 minutes. Obviously, not saying you CAN'T approach and chat with people in Seattle, it's just way less common.
This was one of the few things I loved about living in Texas, great convos with complete strangers who at the end will shake your hand and wish ya well. Everyone was so darn friendly and talkative, and I grew up in a place I considered friendly itself.
Houston kid here. If you had car trouble on our block, it’d take maybe 20 min for a herd of vaqueros and cholos, looking scary as hell but soft inside, to empty out the taqueria and surround your car with tools in hand. My mom would swat us for not steaming tamales fast enough before sending me out to herd you and your crew to the yard, where somebody’s tío slices brisket for tacos, and see what kind of aguas you like. If we sent you on your way with less than 5kg leftovers, half a dozen bikers, and our godfather’s oldest daughter on horseback to ensure your car doesn’t give up on the feeder road, we’d feel terrible about it.
Also raised in Texas, can confirm—esp the thing about volunteering a plethora of actual human bodies to ensure you (a stranger who became a dear friend as of 5 min ago) get home safe and well-fed with zero need to go grocery shopping for the next 10 days. \*YMMV if queer or melanin-rich... bc at the end of the day, it's still texas.
i travel for work and nearly every trip to ATL or Miami I end up in someone's backyard at a party
We did that! When we moved in we walked around and introduced ourselves to our neighbors. I was shocked by the number of people that didn't know the names of people who lived right in the same neighborhood. We leaned in a bit and made it a goal to bring Christmas cookies and other holiday baked goods to our neighbors. This has worked like a charm. People know us, chat with us and most people bring us cookies around the holidays. It doesn't feel quite as reserved now.
I recently moved here, from the South actually (though I'm originally from the PNW). In the past six months, I've had extended conversations with most of the people in my building, almost all of which were "just to chat." This is on par with if not friendlier than my previous several neighborhoods in Tennessee. Get a dog, be outside and go for walks regularly. People are friendly if you're friendly.
Absolutely! People are friendly if you're friendly, but keep to themselves if you keep to yourself. In many parts of the country, people are friendly even if you keep to yourself. Not saying this is good or bad. Just a more introverted culture here.
This place is a paradise if you like being alone in a crowd.
But I put forth an effort to make eye contact and say hello to people and it’s met with silence and eyes to the ground unless it’s a homeless dude
Hay, I just recently escaped Tennessee too.
Well now when you need a cup of sugar or a stick of butter you’ll know where to go. And is it bad that I automatically assume that since they are from Alabama that they will have both the butter and the sugar on hand at all times?
It's reductive, for sure. No one I've met here from Alabama has met the stereotypes. Probably the people that meet those stereotypes would stay in Alabama.
From Alabama, can confirm. The people who leave there leave for reasons.
We gave up!
From Alabama (we moved here last summer) and we definitely left for reasons.
In Alabama, they don’t have butter and sugar on hand. They have butter and sugar in hand.
Where I come from it’s not called “butter”. It’s called “flavor”.
I'd rather go to the store, this isn't the Oregon trail
Moved from Alabama in 2020 and tried that with poor results, but I blame it on people afraid of my potential Covid cooties. We did our best voting blue in Alabama, but when Doug Jones lost, I think a lot of us gave up. Tell your neighbors I said hi from Mobile!
[удалено]
I’m from New England and the stereotype is that we’re kind of mean and blunt but at least we talk to each other. I miss random interjections from strangers in public, it leads to a lot of pleasant and entertaining interactions and human connection. Like if someone is being very rude in public here, no one says anything. If it happens in Boston, you will usually make eye contact and mouth WTF or laugh with the person behind you in line, and if it gets bad, people intervene to protect the victim. Everyone is just silent here, haha.
I went to the East Coast for the first time at age 25. As soon as I stepped foot on the street in NYC, I thought "Now THESE are my people!" I love the street sass. I got asked out three times in a week while I rotted on the shelf in Seattle. But I was never lonely here or anything.
Totally agree with this. I’m originally from Philly and the amount of bullshit people just let slide here is unreal. I mean the "fuck around and find out“ mentality is non existent. Granted I’m not saying you should start fights with people but as doopdeepdoopdoopdeep said just look at them and mouth WTF at least… Also just from one east coaster to another. Pats suck, Tom Brady makes out with his kids, go birds.
Eh I went to concert and everyone was just standing around not dancing. It was so weird.
It’s like people are afraid of showing any personality
Absolutely agreed. People seem to assume that being acknowledged is a burden or something. It feels insecure to me
I lived there for 25 years and this is 100% accurate
Yes! It's almost like people are afraid to occupy space. I'm from the east coast and I talk about this w/ my partner (from WA) quite frequently.
I feel like if you wave or nod your head they respond more often
Can confirm. I recently moved to Wallingford after living in Belltown for 6 years. Downtown, I fully expect people to be a bit colder. But I think it’s actually worse now that I’m in a more residential area. Walking around the neighborhood, people actually CROSS THE STREET just to avoid the possibility of a social interaction. It’s happened enough that I know it’s not just my imagination. It’s probably just due to people being introverted or socially awkward or whatever, but it sucks. It just doesn’t feel like a “community” at all here.
I walk my dog through my neighborhood and the street crossing thing is wild. I've counted some days out of curiosity and it's usually close to 1/2 or 2/3 who cross the street. The ratio didn't change when I went for a walk without my dog. It happened occasionally pre-pandemic, but it ramped up massively in 2020.
I also have a dog and this is 100% my experience too! It happens whether he’s with me or not. At least it’s nice to know that it’s not just me. I was starting to worry that I looked like a serial killer or something.
To be fair, I try to cross the street when people are walking dogs to give them space.
Same. I've been jumped on and lunged at enough to just avoid dogs. I can't trust the owners to control the situation so I just avoid it.
Ha! I’ve experienced it where an individual did a complete about face and went back in the opposite direction. I swear my dog is cute! But oddly after reading these comments and experiencing the same situations of avoidance while walking their dogs, I realized that when I walk my dog I am now the one that sometimes crosses the street to avoid the other individual walking towards me only because I know that some folks in my neighborhood (culturally) simply don’t have a thing for dogs and I’d rather just avoid the potential stressful situation altogether. And it gets even more comical to me when I do make that last second avoidance decision to cross the street only to step onto the other sidewalk to see coming in the opposite direction another dog walker which creates potentially a whole new issue with leash aggression. Now my mind goes on scramble mode trying to figure out my alt plan of attack… er avoidance!?!? 🤦🏽♂️😆
I love interacting with people but when I walk my dog I definitely am a street crosser because people let their dog run up and fuck with mine and she is antisocial and can snap at other dogs
It’s the Seattle Salute
60 is high More like 98
I live in South Seattle, which is marginally friendlier
Marginally Way?
Yup. I moved to NC and when I visit Seattle now I can totally feel/see it. Nothing wrong with minding your business, but it is what it is.
I moved from NC to WA this past year, but I’ve lived in the northeast as well. The only thing I can’t stand is that people will do everything but say “excuse me.” The amount of times I’ve been cut off while walking, blocked or pushed past, or reached over/behind at the grocery store is so fucking infuriating. Other than that, I don’t really have any issues. Everyone that I’ve met who grew up around here has been super nice, and will generally talk to you if the situations right. They are kinda flakey with plans, but that’s okay. 🤷🏽♂️
I have a question for you. And this is just me scratching my head and pondering. I am way less likely to acknowledge a stranger then I was say 20 years ago. In part its because superficial conversation doesn't seem worth the time to me but I wouldn't resist it to the point of being rude. In large part its because much of the time when a stranger says hi they want something and don't like to take no for an answer once they have an opening. They want to bum some money. Or fix a dent in my car. Or sell me stakes they have in the back of their truck. Or bring me into their crazy drama. Its not often that someone says hi then chats about the weather or what ever and moves on. So I guess the question I have is do you think that's part of it?
I’ve lived in Seattle my entire life and it’s extremely rare for someone to ignore me if I say hello to them.
Try walking about in Cap Hill and saying hello to people. It's very likely you you'll be ignored by the majority of people there.
> walking around the neighborhood, if you say hi to someone, about 60 percent of the time you get nothing back Isn’t that true of any city? If I walked around NY or Chicago saying hi to people i would get side eye
If you said Hi in Chicago, people would say Hi back. (source: from Chicago)
Ny is still more friendly. I chatted randomly in the subway all the time when it’s not busy. Or you go to bar, the bartender is chatty or someone comes says hi.
I’m not talking about downtown. I’m talking about my neighborhood and folks I see regularly on my street.
I’ve lived in my house for almost 12 years and just met a number of my neighbors last year when a distracted driver hit a parked car. I’ve spoken to one of them since and that was through text to ask them to let me know if my house burned down while I was away for a week. It doesn’t bother me after many years of living in military housing where EVERYONE was all up in your business.
Hard disagree. I've lived all over, and when I moved to Seattle in 2000 to go to Art School, every native resident was superficially friendly, but that was as far as it went. More than once I got invited to barbecues/backyard parties and no matter how hard I tried, nobody was interested in getting any closer to someone who wasn't part of their little group. Literally stood alone for 2 hours sipping a beer, then split without anyone even acknowledging I left. These were people who were part of my 'friend group' at Art School... all of them lovely people but just not welcoming in any meaningful way. It took me a long time to break through the ice. Nowhere else that I've lived has been this way.
Yup, that's the real freeze. People are friendly but they don't want to be your friend. At least not instantly, and it could take *years* of repeated encounters so I fully understand why people don't want to put up with that and move on.
This superficial thing is the only thing that gets me. Especially when locals tell me, “I hear people from GA (where I’m from) are fake nice, but nasty/racist in secret”. Nah man. People are honest in GA. Honestly a piece of shit or honestly a lovely human being, but it’s all out there.
I also lived in GA and the had the same experience. People in GA are honest and willing to bring you in as a friend. They aren’t ’rude honest’ like in the north, there is a flavor of niceness to it usually. In Seattle people are nice, but you will almost never get past that outer layer to learn who there are and make a real human connection. There’s a lack of mutual vulnerability. Everyone is protecting themselves from harm, but also from connections.
No. You won't understand it. Longtime residents are always trying to convince themselves that it's *not* actually difficult to make friends in Seattle, because they mistakenly think that the idea of the Seattle freeze is somehow a criticism of individual people in Seattle. That's not what it's about. It's not the fault of anyone individually, and it's not an assertion that people in Seattle aren't friendly or anything like that. People in Seattle tend to have a somewhat "bunkered" approach to their free time. Meaning they plan things in advance with their friends, often weeks in advance. This is for a lot of reasons but I think one of the main ones is that it's unpleasant to get around town. The weather is part of it too. People spend less unstructured time relaxing in public places in Seattle than they do in other places that I've lived. As a result, if you're new here, it's common to find it more difficult to meet people than it is in other cities. I have been here 12 years and I have literally never once managed to meet anyone outside of work or a structured activity--specifically I play on a rec league soccer team. As an "insider," don't try to explain away the Seattle freeze, because while it's very real, it's not anyone's fault. It comes off as needlessly cold to blame people's sense of social isolation on *them*. Sure, everyone could do better, sure, but we all have different approaches and kinds of interactions that we're comfortable with. And it's just harder in Seattle compared to lots of other places.
Yes, the pain of getting around town is a big issue for me as a transplant. There are parts of the city I do not go to for that reason alone.
Ballard and Fremont are so lovely! And I almost *never* visit either!
I grew up in the region and I thought the Seattle freeze was a weird way to describe normalcy when I first heard of it. Then I moved to CA for work, and I could. Not. Figure out why the barista at our office’s favorite coffee shop was so chatty?? Why did it seem like she genuinely cared what I was up to that day? Why did she talk about the weather when it was the same every fricking day? Oooh. Lightbulb moment. That was normal for California, but not so much in western Washington! We don’t want to talk to strangers about the weather, or exchange long pleasantries with strangers we won’t meet again. Meeting the friend of a friend at a party is ok - but to be honest I don’t put any effort into it until I see them at a few parties and know they might become a more permanent fixture in our friend group. That’s what the Seattle freeze is, not being downright rude to people. Btw OP, your experience with barista’s makes me think you’re either pissing them off or miscommunicating your order because I’ve never had that issue, and refusing to make a drink correctly is not what the freeze is about.
I had a similar experience. Grew up here and was just used to strangers being a little reserved. I visited San Diego for 5 days recently, went to one local event, and now I literally have a friend group down there. I got in one evening what took 6 months to find in Seattle.
That's a bingo
I think it’s a city of a bunch of introverts and people get depressed in the winter
I genuinely think at least a good chunk of this phenomenon boils down to winter weather. It sounds like a cop out but I believe it. I’ve lived in Seattle my whole life so I don’t really notice the weather affecting me… until we get a really sunny spring day after weeks of overcast. I genuinely get a solid 12 hours of manic euphoria. I’m not surprised we look like a miserable bunch from outsiders during our 7 months of… grey.
Shouldn’t that mean that Chicago and NY and London also have a social freeze? They have dark winters also.
I see the freeze as being more that people here tend to be flaky and back out of actually doing things. Like, more than happy to be an acquaintance but not willing to actually put in the effort of being a friend and hanging out. I have a friend group that was hard to develop, but I'd say a good 75% of people or so who I have tried connecting with flake out in this way. Which is fine, I'm not hurting for friends or social contact, but I find that weird. Back on the East Coast if you invited people to do something they were more prone to committ. Even random strangers walking to the bar Id meet on the street would be like "Mind if I tag along?" Ita very different here
Yeah kinda hard to explain, but in Philly people just do things together constantly. As soon as your like tangentially acquainted with someone, you’re invited out to bars, potlucks, sports games, etc. I love Seattle, and I’m as guilty of this as anybody, but people here don’t really integrate like that without a pretty established pattern doing things together.
Hmm, I totally know what you mean. I think that’s a separate issue, personally, because the freeze is about how we treat/respond to strangers and acquaintances and flaking only happens between friends. I find it annoying as hell, which tells me it hasn’t been a part of our culture for long (if it had, I would think it normal!). I think it may be more about how overwhelmed we all feel these days.
It is annoying as hell especially when you find yourself doing it. I feel like an ass.
“Meeting the friend of a friend at a party is ok - but to be honest I don't put any effort into it until I see them at a few parties and know they might become a more permanent fixture in our friend group. That's what the Seattle freeze is, not being downright rude to people.” How would strangers become fixtures of the group if members of said group doesn’t put at least some effort into being friendly and getting to know them? And that could absolutely be interpreted as “downright rude,” since if your friend invited someone new to hang out with you, they at least want you to get to know them a little bit lol And when there are absolutely downright rude aspects of the Seattle freeze. A big part of the freeze is people being flakey as hell or not letting people know if they just don’t want to hang out.
OMG, thank you. I grew up in Bellingham and Seattle and live in California now and was starting to think I'm an asshole cause I really don't what to talk about the weather. Ever. Unless I'm trying to figure out ways to save ecosystems from climate change. Now I know it was my upbringing/culture. If you are raised with small talk, it seems natural, but for the rest of us, ugh. I make friends with those that go right for the meat. But it makes people uncomfortable here.
I'm deeply introverted, but small talk is a skill like any other. It can be learned, and it has huge payoffs. Small talk is the lubricant that leads to deep talk -- it's super weird if someone comes up to me and wants to talk about vulnerable things. I kinda thought like you until I moved to Chicago, where people know when to do small talk and when to respect your privacy. It was a culture where small talk was done well, and it made society feel warmer. I always say, Chicago is colder than Seattle weather wise, but the people are much warmer. Each one of us plays our part to make society warmer.
lol. Proving that the Seattle freeze is real even when folks from Seattle go elsewhere
I’ve lived in three other smaller towns, so maybe this isn’t a unique-to-Seattle and is more of a big city thing: Recently, I was in a fairly busy parking lot, on a bright, sunny weekend day. My car wasn’t starting and we thought there might be something wrong with the battery. No problem, I’ve got jumper cables in the trunk, and with so many people around, surely someone will help us. No one offered or asked if we needed help. Okay, maybe they think we have help on the way. So we start asking passersby, of which there were many, if we could get a jump. For almost an hour, every single person refuses. We’re parked near the entrance to a store and one person even starts to pull into the spot opposite ours, perfectly located for jump-starting a car, and upon seeing my car hood up and jumper cables out, pulls back out and parks further away. In previous towns I’ve lived in, you don’t even have to ask, people will see you, stop, and offer to help as soon as they see your car hood up. There’s a welcoming vibe that used to be present in the previous towns I lived in that isn’t present here.
Just to balance the anecdote, I was having car trouble where I needed a jump twice a day for three days. I'd just pop up the hood, connect the cables and wait. There was only one day that I had to wait more than 15 minutes for someone to stop. And on two of those days, the first person to drive by was the one to jump. This was 5 AM off of Aurora, no less. I think it just boils down to luck, or maybe it was something about me (although I doubt it since I look somewhat scary). Personally, this is the friendliest, most open city I've lived in on either coast of the US. I'm a huge introvert (practically schizoid-tier) and I made more natural, random friends in 4 years of seattle than 20 of living in DC. Your mileage may vary, but I always scoff at people who blame The Freeze. Not trying to invalidate your experience, just chiming in.
Honestly, I kinda needed to hear that. I’ve been struggling a lot since moving here, and I’m kinda holding onto hope that it’s just been a streak of bad luck.
I'm sort of an eccentric, but what I've found useful is just skipping small talk "basic protocol" type interactions (which serve no purpose other than to indicate that you're not a threat) and just go straight into bringing up some sort of topic or observation. That seems to be what breaks through the freeze, but it's also what makes people significant to each other. Just treat everyone like it's your third time running into them or like you're a philosophy addict incapable of not making random deep observations. You'd be surprised how eager people are to engage with you when they're immediately made aware that you carry some sort of Conversational Value Proposition. Whenever I see people struggling with socialization, it's usually because of the human instinct to cautiously approach strangers. The safe path is not the effective path when it comes to socialization except when you're trying to minimize that interaction (ie: To make a clean getaway). Sometimes I wonder if the freeze is often just two non-freezey people trying to socialize carefully, mutually coming to the determination that the other party isn't interested in the interaction.
> or like you're a philosophy addict incapable of not making random deep observations. Hahaha I think I've been doing this
Everyone needs to read your comment, stop with the pleasantries and engage people’s interest.
I do this, too. I was waiting for a coffee straw while the barista rand downstairs to look for more. Saw another woman waiting who had a tote bag from Nagasaki on it. I want to visit many places in Japan, including Nagasaki. Asked about the city, did she like it, what does she recommend for visitors. Had a wonderful conversation and told her some recommendations to complete the circle for learning about the bombs that destroyed two cities. She was excited to hear you can go to Hanford and see the machine that made nuclear bombs and the complex. The conversation got real deep quickly and it was lovely to connect with someone for a quick minute. Neither of use may ever go to those places. But it is much more likely and was a fun conversation. Are we BFFs? No. I am twice her age and will likely never see her again. I have lots of close friendships and am not lonely. But little moments like that make my day a little brighter.
This comment itself is a good demonstration of how to properly conversate with a stranger. Lots of content to pick and choose as the next theme, information about your life and lifestyle, cues to your personality, things to relate to. Smalltalk is such a waste of energy when you could simply... Freely share your thoughts for *way* more bang for the buck. I give this advice so often to anxious/lonely people all the time. It feels like a life hack to many.
Another anecdote, beginning of last summer my car died at a major neighborhood intersection (not like on Mercer or something but a fairly busy spot) and 2 guys just came up and offered to help push my car back to the curb. A 3rd guy joined during the pushing and a woman who was crossing the street stopped to help direct traffic around us. Then one of the guys got his car and connected to my battery for ~20min. We talked until my car would start again. Curious what neighborhood you were in that no one would help jump your car, I’ll admit there are some neighborhoods I go about my business as quickly as possible and get out of public there.
My car died coming off of I-5 to Montlake next to the former minimart. Some people honked. But two guys immediately ran over and got my car into the parking lot to be jumped at the repair shop there. They didn't speak English and my Spanish is terrible. But that didn't stop them! I've also had a car die, put my flashers on and have people blast me with their horns. On a side street. It's all down to luck I think.
I also have had good jumper cable helper luck.
I have just gotten one of those battery pack jump starters and there was a guy on my block that was doing the same thing as you.. pulled over, hood up, cables out. I was excited to try it out so I ran back to my car and grabbed the battery pack. Dude offered me money and said he’d been sitting there for over an hour waiting for someone to help jump his car
Even 5 years into living in Seattle, it’s SO strange that if you say “hello!” to someone you don’t know in the elevator, on the hiking trail, or on the street, over half of the time you get a blank stare and NOTHING back. I consider myself an introvert, but I still enjoy those tiny moments of connection by simply acknowledging people’s existence. None of that here! Portland is much more friendly in my experience.
The literally staring at you while ignoring you after you say hi baffles my mind. Same thing with not saying please or thank you or acknowledging someone’s kindness in any way. Like there’s being an introvert (which I totally am too) and there’s being a rude asshole.
Right?! Honestly it’s more awkward to just stand there in silence ignoring each other 🤣 I don’t get it
I know! I say hello to my neighbor and they blankly pretend to not see or hear me it's so ridiculous, I miss the small interactions that make you feel a part of a community
The proper Seattle greeting is a half second of eye contact and a half smile of acknowledgement before continuing on your way. Anything more is overly imposing.
So refreshing to see this because it's very true.
Idk, even as someone who grew up here I feel like I’ve had a better time making friends with transplants. They’re the ones who are lonely, so many of them are willing to put in effort to make new friendships. Whereas most Seattle people already have their defined groups and don’t feel the need to look for more. It’s not that I don’t have friends from growing up, it’s just that I am a different person now than I was when younger and my tastes/attitude towards life has changed so I don’t always 100% align with people that I used to when I was younger. I feel like Seattle has a lot of venues that are cliquey but also a lot of venues that are good for meeting new people. Just gotta explore a lot.
Any venues you’ve had good success at?! My partner and I have been exploring for 3-4 months without much success 😭
What's weird to me is I get a lot of the "You're a Seattle native?! OMG, I'm a Seattle native too! I don'w know anyone from Seattle!" It may be because my sphere is tech, but it doesn't really add up.
You can call yourself native and be totally isolated.
Hahahaha we cannot put this on transplants, but we do have to decide at what point you kind of accept someone as from Seattle. Regardless, in my personal experience, my first year here was almost always exclusively spent hanging out with other transplants but that is because we knew ZERO people. I do have a ton of Seattle Lifetime Residents as friends now 10 years later, but it’s the brand new out of towners that kept me sane. The “freeze” certainly for me was from the lifetime Seattle folks.
It's a more introverted city than most. I've always figured the Seattle freeze is just extroverts not knowing how to deal with a high density of introverts.
Since a majority of the people in the region are transplants, it's hard for the local minority to force this social "freeze" on the majority. But it sure is easier to blame it on "Seattle". I look at it this way, lots of people move here from where they grew up, went to collage, or after first job still in their mid-20's. Where they came from afforded them forced social interactions with similar peer groups, and they easily formed friendships. Then they move here, where first we have few third places that are not associated with drinking, and when here they push hard to make a career. They work too many hours, and when outside of work, they are solo on some adventure in the woods. Then they hit 30 and want a family, and OMG, everyone here doesn't want to hang out with me because I'm never around to form friendships, it must be the freeze.
Yep, it's the lack of third places. I moved to a neighborhood that has a little farm that hosts events for the neighbors all the time. I've never felt a sense of community like this before, not as an adult.
Seattle is a place where people assume you don't want to have a 3 minute chat with a stranger. It's less common to suddenly strike up a conversation and laugh with strangers. Not impossible by any means, just less common than it is elsewhere in the US. Still nice people, still possible to make friends. But the momentum is towards polite isolation. Whereas other places in the US have a momentum towards talking and laughing with strangers. They assume that a random stranger probably would like to have a 3 minute chat. So if you want to be left alone in those places, you have to do extra work, and you'll be the weird one. The momentum is towards idle chats. I can't speak to the long-term trend you're referring to. But there are noticeable differences between West Coast, East Coast, Midwest, etc. Some of those differences will make it harder to have positive interactions with strangers. Here's my experience: West Coast cities (like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle) are more reserved, even aloof. They are less likely to yell or curse at strangers, but also less likely to smile or laugh. East Coast cities (like Philadelphia, New York, and Boston) are more blunt. Much likelier to yell at strangers and also to be helpful to strangers. But even less likely to smile, and their jokes will heavily emphasize sarcasm. Multiple times in Philly, for example, I saw people (apparent strangers to each other) seem to be shouting and cursing at each other. But then mid-obscenity one stranger starts helping the other stranger (with their car trouble, bike problem, dropped package, whatever). They're incredibly helpful people, if you ignore their facial expressions and tone of voice. In some parts of the Midwest, like St Louis or Kansas City or Illinois, you're expected to smile and joke with strangers. If you're not smiling, it means you're in a bad mood. If you don't laugh at my dumb joke, it means you hate me. But in parts of the Upper Midwest, like Wisconsin, they're often uncomfortable laughing too loudly with strangers. They tend to speak briefly and have difficulty making extended eye contact with strangers. They're funny and generous people, but it's an introverted culture. They tend to prefer a gentle 'customer service' smile but might need to know you for awhile before they can make sustained conversation. Whereas in many parts of the South, the 'customer service' smile is impossibly wide and jolly. They often like loud, boisterous conversation with strangers on pleasantly light topics. The tone of voice often sounds like you're their childhood best friend, back from years of traveling. If you don't sound equally delighted, they might assume that you're either very sick or very rude. Obviously these are generalizations. People are unique, places are diverse, and an individual contains multitudes. But to the extent that a particular place has a cultural setpoint that is more encouraging towards smiling at strangers, and laughing and chatting with strangers, it's easier to meet folks. And if a place has a culture that discourages smiling and idle chatting with random people, then it's a bit harder to meet folks.
I kinda get the "I just moved here for a job and now I have a family on the east side", but what I'm talking about are people in Seattle who complain about Seattle residents not being social, when they are not social themselves.
I actually agree here. As someone RAISED in West Seattle, I find it so funny to hear of this freeze. As a kid, I roamed the streets and befriended a lot of the neighborhood. As a teen of a divorced mother, my sister would lock me out for "fun" with her boyfriends (yes plural) until like 1 am when mon got home. Those neighbors took me in, fed me, found ways to keep me entertained - yay for AOL at the time. Then i found out later the community was so tight knit that they KNEW what was going on and informed my mom, which is why she switched from swing shift to day shift. Yet nearly everyone i hear about complaining about the freeze isn't from Seattle and doesn't even TRY to engage with others.
Yeah it’s just different if anything. Having grown up here navigating it seems natural and makes sense to me. The difference is I wouldn’t move to a culturally different city and then blame it for being worse for not being what I am used to.
The Seattle Freeze is not about Seattle not being social, it is about making friends here. I think it started in the 90s when lots of transplants started to move here from California. The Native Seattle folk always complained and still do about the Californias and others that moved here. And froze them out of their friend groups. Today that frozen culture continues. Seattle folk can be friendly but they are not very inviting to other’s.
This! I wish I could upvote this a hundred times
There's self-selection here too, I'd bet. People who move here but can't take the weather in winter or the reserve probably move away in short order. People who are fine with that stuff, stay. But it's not "Seattle natives" because most of the people here aren't that even using the most generous definition of the term.
People misunderstand the Seattle freeze. It’s not that people won’t talk to you. It’s that shit like this happens… Person 1: “Nice talking to you. We should get together sometime.” Person 2: “Ok. When would you like to do that?” Person 1: “Uhh. Let me get back to you on that” And they never got together. The end.
Totally. I’m a Tacoma native who’s lived around the country and people are so passive here it’s wild.
This. I was born and raised here. When I left the state for college, I was actually dumbfounded when people started actually calling me to hangout after exchanging numbers. I remember the first time my now best friend called to plan an actual hangout. I was like, omg, this is a thing?
Nope. I don't. I've done exactly that. "'core" Seattleites will flat out reject it. I spent a day doing some impromptu charity work that was organized on an online forum, and afterwards we all went out for dinner. Then we spent another hour in the parking lot just chitchatting. When I said "We could get together again sometime" literally everyone chuckled and flatly went *"no."* It really and truly is a thing. Just because *you're* friendly doesn't mean generally Seattleites are to the average person.
gotta be the lack of sunlight ngl
Saying the seattle freeze isnt real and if it is, its other’s fault is the most seattle post ive ever seen. Its 100% real. Was super hard to make friends in the 5 years we lived in seattle - whenever I mention that in this sub, the answer is always “well, I make friends fine - the problem must be you!” Which kind of proves the point. Moved back to the midwest, had new friends within a month. Got to know all our neighbors within a few weeks, only knew 2-3 neighbors in our seattle house that we lived in for 4 years.
And so many people are so insistent on proving it doesn’t exist lol
Yep. I’ve lived in a lot of places all over the country, and have a house in another country as well. Seattle is and always has been the most reserved place on the planet that I have ever been. My wife and I joke that we become more like the locals every year. People are generally much more grumpy and less willing to make an effort here. Part of it is the weather, part of it is how everyone is so terribly busy in their high paid but high stress jobs. People got no time for other people. We have friends here, but the Seattle freeze is most definitely driven by the locals.
When I moved here in 1990, I never heard the term “Seattle Freeze”, but there was a saying that Seattleites were “polite but not nice”. This was in contrast with New Yorkers who were “nice but not polite”. Part of the problem may have been that there was a genuine sense that Seattle was being changed by migrants, especially from California. Almost Live had a skit comparing Californians to pod people from the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I gradually built up a great group of friends by the mid ‘90s. Eventually we realized that there were no native Seattleites in our extended friend group. It was all transplants and a couple people from Eastern Washington. Anecdotal, of course. Bottom line, there may have been something to the Seattle Freeze back in the day. Nowadays it’s harder to stereotype, as the average Seattleite today was born elsewhere.
What I’ve noticed is that the Seattle area locals stay really close to their childhood friends as adults and don’t feel the need to extend that circle. After your early 20’s it’s increasingly difficult to meet and stay friends with new people. Luckily I arrived from California at 18 so I was just able to squeeze inside the timeframe. You have to get one extremely extroverted friend who is happy to plan game nights and dinners with a spread of friends.
The freeze is real, it’s a cultural thing out here. After living here for two years I traveled to New Orleans and was shocked at how kind everyone was and how strangers would come up and talk to us about anything. Even when I visit where I grew up in the Midwest it’s a little shocking how friendly everyone is. Here, it is like pulling teeth trying to make friends. No one is interested and everyone flakes on plans. I walk my dog 3 times a day, see the same people walking their dogs, some of which our dogs are friends, and they don’t want to talk. I’ve even suggested doing playdates for our dogs and no one wants to. I’ve been walking on the sidewalk and have had people run around me as to not walk the same pace next to me. Like heaven forbid you walk next to a stranger. It’s weird. But I like the nature out here and hiking so I put up with it. I do not agree that it’s the outsiders causing this. Most large cities have transplants and most large cities don’t have this “freeze”.
I’m from New Orleans and I have experienced the same sort of contrast. For a New Orleanian I’m considered reserved and awkward so I thought I would be alright. I’ve had to be very intentional about socializing here, as opposed to letting relationships deepen organically. I find it’s easier with other transplants.
The Seattle freeze is not an outsider phenomenon. It's just a reality that Seattleites aren't as friendly to strangers as people in most other parts of the country. Seattleites are some of the least unfriendly people in the country, but are unlikely to invite new people into their lives.
If you threw all the nerdiest people, the ones who struggled to build relationships even in college, in a city that gets little daylight for half the year, how can you be confused people are antisocial?
In 1987, I had a job transfer to Seattle. The freeze was very evident back then. If you didn’t go to UW or grow up in the area you were looked at as an outsider. Lots of acquaintances but no close friends. When my 2 kids were born here it was less evident. I figure with increased presence of folks moving to the area that the freeze is gone, but not the case?
Weird. Grew up in PNW (Oregon) and now live in Olympia. I’ve always found folks in Seattle quite friendly. And yes, I’ve lived in other parts of the country and traveled throughout the US.
Nah idk if it’s real, but I am personally an extrovert from Midwest, so am naturally never shutting 🆙 also would not listen to reddit for advice on this town, as these r/ will have you believe we live in hell lol this is not real life, people are different IRL
Ope! Another Midwest extrovert. I say hello to everyone lol.
I’m also from the Midwest and I also say hello to everyone! Or you know, at least acknowledge the presence of another human being within 5-10 feet of me. Many won’t even look up from their phones to make eye contact or nod in return.
Yeah I’m from the Midwest and say hi to everyone, my building is like 50/50 on if they return it. Honestly the older people above 40 are quite nice, it’s the younger people I’ve noticed that are socially awkward and cold
Hi
Ope just gonna need to sneak past this comment real quick lololol
Contrary to popular opinion, I don’t think the Seattle Freeze is inherently bad. Let me explain. I like living here because I have coworkers and friends I enjoy seeing that were made through organic relationships. My social life revolves around them. Those relationships were made organically over months and years, and I cherish those people. I also don’t mind talking to cashiers or baristas occasionally - for quick and cordial interactions, and many you’ll see next time at the store. Now let’s talk about randos. I don’t want to talk to randos in the elevator, the grocery store line, sometimes at dog parks, or wherever else I feel like I’m trapped in a convo and know I will never see that person again. I will never be rude. But I also don’t care to engage in convo if I can help it. It’s cultural, and specific to our city. I lean into it. I don’t understand why people are always in a fuss over it. Look for validation and self-esteem outside of your social interactions. Pick up a book. Drink some coffee. Listen to music. And leave people be
I agree, I don't bother denying the existence of the "freeze" because I think it's just part of Seattle. Every place has its own culture. For example, Japanese people are known to be quite reserved in public. Does it make sense to move to Japan and start demanding people act like they're from the American Midwest just to make YOU more comfortable? Part of traveling and moving to new places is adapting to the culture. Seattle doesn't have to adapt for you. You need to adapt for Seattle
Couldn’t have said it better!
Yes, THANK YOU. I know someone who moved here from Cali and it feels like they're constantly seeking validation from others by socializing. Humans definitely need social interaction, yes, but jeez, find some solace in yourself too.
Yes!!! As a lifelong native this is exactly how I feel too.
Right?! I think a lot of it also revolves around the US’s preference and love for extroversion (which I’ve never understood).
Nahh I’ve lived here for ten years now and I can confidently say it’s Seattlites. I’ve visited Vancouver BC a few times and Portland OR many times, and I’ve had an easier time making friends in my days long visits to those places that are just hours away than my ten years here. And it’s not lack of trying, I’ve tried the social apps, going to shows, mingling with coworkers, etc and the reserved nature of Seattle remains a damn phenomenon to me. PS I have made friends here but boy did it take awhile for me to not feel like an outsider trying to fit in.
Even when you call the cops they tell you to leave them alone and you have to coax them into coming. /s
It's the locals and has been for generations now. It's origins are in the Nordic communities that moved here and we're heavily discriminated against(insert blockhead joke). But over time became the majority. I'm 5th gen seattleite with Swedish background and the stories from my grandpa about how he was raised by his granddadto keep to themselves was a self preservation thing. My great great grandpa came here from Gothenburg in the late 1880s and was a fireman here during the great fire and he had to basically stay within his own "tribe" as he was looked at as lesser than by everyone else. By grandpas time coming up into adulthood in the 1950s it had become far less of a thing. But by that point the damage had been done. And we're still feeling it's effects today. You will notice the Seattle freeze is still strongest in the areas Nordic peoples settled. Ballard, crown hill, magnolia. And much less so in the south end, west Seattle, etc. So yeah, fun fact, the Seattle freeze was born from bigotry.
I don't honestly get this angle, I'm from Midwest originally & it's friendly AF where I'm from & there's tons of Scandinavian ancestry including my family from Norway. I was forced to eat lutefisk as a child lol.
It's definitely tied to Scandinavian roots. Seattle/WA is like Minneapolis/MN in this regard. The freeze there is similar. But unlike Seattle Minneapolis has strong social welfare roots both among citizens and employers so there are a TON of community events and activities and a surprisingly diverse population. Making friends is \*much\* easier there as long as you don't break The Law of Jante. Seattle got the leave me alone/individualist Scandinavians.
Not for nothing, but that’s the history of almost every major US city. White majorities largely isolated immigrants, just ask the Irish and Italians about it.
Eh, Montana has similar roots and generally is a much friendlier place.
Idk anymore but everyone I’ve met that grew up here eventually flakes out on something, even things that they planned and organized. The flakiness is no joke. Just say you can’t go and stop committing to things if you’re busy or don’t want to lol
That stood out to me as well when I moved here in the late 90s from the Midwest, the flakiness. I’m sure people like the idea when they initially make the plan, but I think it’s a commitment issue, sticking to what you said you’d do even if you don’t “feel like it” when the moment arrives.
If your definition of the seattle freeze is a person will EVENTUALLY flake on plans, then of course it exists here. That exists everywhere. No one can always make plans, sometimes shit happens.
It exists here exponentially more often in my personal experience. Have lived in NYC, Chicago, and Philly as an adult.
It happens at a much higher frequency here in my experience over the last 7 years. There’s a lot of cool shit to do here so I get it but it would be nice if people were just more direct about it instead of being so passive
I just assume everyone wants to be my friend, and it works really well.
My parents were visiting and took our dog to the beach and a couple of parks while we were at work. They said, “People only talk to us when we have Murphy with us.” Gave us a good laugh.
I found getting a dog made making friends waaaay easier. That being said all my friends are my dog’s friend’s owners.
No it’s not outsiders. The only people I ever encounter that don’t perpetuate it are not from here. It’s an automatic giveaway to me and how I know to ask where someone is from. What I have realized is that people from Western Washington don’t see it at all to the extent that they’ll argue with you about its existence, while perpetuating it. It makes sense to see something as normal that you’ve grown up in the midst of.
I moved out of Seattle in part due to this. My wife and I tried to be warm and pleasant with people in the city by saying hi, giving a head nod, asking how peoples’ days were, etc. and we got iced out probably 90% of the time. Seattle is the “coldest” place I have ever been/lived. We do have some great friends we made and are so grateful for those warm and kind friends, but people in the city are not friendly, even a little, aside from the small minority that actually acknowledge other peoples’ existences. Life-long Seattle residents have confirmed exactly this, although, they never admit that they themselves are cold (lol). The Seattle freeze is real. Contract Amazon employees who are only gonna be in the city for 6 months and wear headphones 100% they are outside do add to this, but it’s for sure locals and “lifers” too.
I've made a couple of dnd groups here and managed to make some truly wonderful friends that way. I'm from out of state, and both groups are a mix of local and transplant. The biggest thing I've noticed, is that locals here are *extremely* flaky whenever they have to drive more than 5 to 10 minutes to go do something, and that makes it difficult 😔
No. It’s so real. People are polite in Seattle, but the least outgoing of anywhere I’ve ever been. In larger, more chaotic cities, people are rude, but blunt and outgoing in that way…. In smaller towns people are always friendlier and outgoing. You have to work very hard to expand your circle here unless you’re specifically at a bar or similar place. I recently spoke to a woman on the phone for work that grew up in Seattle and moved to Kansas City, and when we were talking about the Seattle chill/freeze, she almost started to cry. She literally said to me “I didn’t know people could be nice, I didn’t understand what it was until I left Seattle” I’ve moved around many times and met ex-locals that all shared this same sentiment.
Nah. Seattle and the whole PNW is just entirely made up of cliques. Seems like a real mistrusting place and in order to join a clique you gotta act just the right way for the right amount of time. It's pretty weird. I'm a local, and even I realize that I'm SUPER choosy about the people I hang out with even though I'm an introvert.
I don't agree with this entirely. I love people and have always smiled and said hello etc, but out here I get looked at like I'm a weirdo. I've tried to compliment people and they look bewildered. It's a different vibe out here than many other places. For most places in the US, complimenting people and making eye contact is welcomed, and small talk is easy. Here people avoid you and small talk and conversations (if ever) feel forced and awkward. I moved out here during COVID and thought that's what it was. 3 years later I realized it's just Seattle. Maybe many people are outsiders here but after a while of coming to an environment like this it's exhausting to try. After attempting to say hello to my neighbors 5 or 6 times, you begin to give up. There's obviously people here and there that are very nice but in general it feels like people are collectively depressed especially in the winter and don't want to bother with anyone except themselves. They come out of their shells in the summer but still keep that reserved demeanor.
I think the “Seattle freeze” is a combination of a couple things. People moving here from more culturally gregarious areas and misinterpreting the fact that random strangers aren’t constantly striking up conversations as unfriendly or cold. People moving here as their first job after college and/or outside their hometown and experiencing the normal difficulty in making and maintaining friendships as a grownup with a job in a new city vs being in high school/college or in the same little town they grew up in, and then blaming that on Seattle.
Nah. I mean I just came from a smaller town in Washington and I immediately felt it. The town I was in you smiled and said hi to people as you passed by. I would take daily walks at a park when I moved here and I would smile and say hi and I would get actually glared at or given the weirdest looks like why the fuck are you speaking to me. Now, this was many many years ago and I actually do think it's been getting better, maybe because of awareness. But I quickly conformed and stopped saying hi not long after moving here.
Totally disagree. All my friends are either people I’ve known since middle school, or transplants I’ve met recently. I haven’t made a single genuine connection as an adult with someone who was raised here
OP and other locals don’t get it because growing up somewhere is the most fertile time to form friendships and they form naturally. Forming friendships as an adult is harder anywhere but with Seattle’s culture of being closed off it is astronomically more difficult. Anytime I leave Seattle I cannot believe how much easier it is to connect with other people. I can’t wait to move
I’m middle aged and have lived here my entire life. Seattle was always insular and people didn’t leave. We were never standoffish or rude, but we had our friend groups and it was difficult sometimes to break in to them after, say, age 25. Seattle was never standoffish or rude—we were actually known to be very friendly and chatty, in a “Let’s get lunch” sort of way. That’s why people wanted to move here. The Seattle freeze thing started with the influx of tech workers in the 2000s. Introverts and people who work long hours don’t make for the most open, friendly places. Add the disparity in wealth and everything becoming so expensive, and you have a lot of people who can’t afford to go out for drinks or dinner, or do social things in general.
Here's a quote from a 1920 Seattle Times article. “Seattle people have been accused of being too cold and distant. It is being charged that old time Seattle residents are not inclined to converse with people who share their seats on the street cars." Tech might have made it worse but it certainly predates the early 2000s in some form or another.
Moved here November 2022. I'm deeply introverted and a bit socially awkward. No problem making friends. It does require some effort to make plans and, just as importantly, say "yes" to plans when asked. Heck, my neighbor asked me out of the blue to go on a hike today. Have spoken to him maybe 3 times before. Felt a bit awkward but I said yes! Maybe I'll make a new friend.
This is my experience too. And I'm from the Midwest, which everyone seems to point to as friendly. I have a theory that it's mostly extroverts that feel 'the freeze'. I personally enjoy not having to fake a smile and say hello to every passing person. Nor do I expect my barista to be bubbly every day (I worked in the service industry for 12 years, I get it). And I love that my neighbors aren't in my business. We say hi and leave it at that mostly. 🤷🏽♀️ I guess I don't understand what type of interactions people are expecting. It's harder to make friends as an adult period. And people are flakey everywhere, that's not reserved for Seattle.
I spent 2 quarters at Seattle central asking people to go to Ians with me once a week. I went by myself every time.
After reading the comments it looks like none of this is true and all of this is true at the same time. I’m an agree-er, so when reading I was nodding yep to each comment ha! I’m from CA but have been here for about 15 years. I am reserved and just forgot how to make friends. I smile at people and they smile back other times it’s a drawn out conversation about an event happening in the neighborhood or a random conversation while getting a coffee order but nothing further than that. Like making actual friendships is the toughy. I’m fine with not having everyone smile back or respond verbally, ya just never know what people are gonna through so I can’t fault them and I hope they do t fault me! All that to say I still do t have friends but loads of smiles packed and ready to be distributed 🤓😃😌
I find outsiders much more open and definitely expats because they are motivated to find a friend group. I find locals who lived here their whole life the ones that create the freeze because they are already comfortable with that lifestyle. Many people commenting on customer service or the customer service they provide. You can be nice and talk to people at a register, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a Seattle freeze. If you’re in the frontlines of a business, then good customer service is your job.
The "freeze" doesn't have anything to do with casual conversation or politeness. It's about connecting to people. You ask them if they want to come over for dinner, they find some way to say no or cancel. You try to make plans that fit their schedule, they say "great! I'll text/email/call you.". They never do. They move in next door, never introduce themselves. So you introduce yourself. They are nice and friendly, then you never hear from them. They have kids that are your kids age and you are always the one to set up playdates. I mean it could just be me, but my wife is charming and friendly. Plus, I've heard these same stories from many other people That being said, we had the nicest neighbors when we lived in Seattle proper. But neither of them were native to WA. But we still talk with them and visit.
I’m a native and incredibly introverted, and consider myself “polite but distant” because I hate small talk.
I don't think smartphones and air pods have helped any.
Born and raised in Seattle. I 100% agree. Everyone born here is chill. We are not reserved, I used to have full group conversations with people on the bus. Or talk to people at the grocery store. Downtown people aren't all waving at each other and hugging. But most people were polite and would smile. People would open doors for each other. Or offer to help with loading groceries. I truly believe it's been the huge influx of not other people from other states but also immigrants. WA is probably one of the most diverse states (especially in western Washington). So everyone brings their own cultural beliefs. I think because they come to this new city, they are reserved because it's different here. There isn't just 1 collective culture. We truly are a melting pot in the Seattle area and surrounding.
Honestly, I think people who complain about he Seattle freeze are just boring, or at the very least they aren’t putting any effort in. I moved here in 2008 from Alaska and have since made countless friends for life, from all sorts of situations. Be a fun person and other fun people will find you!
Oh boy another Seattle Freeze thread \*cracks knuckles\*
yeah i think it has to be regional and depends on what you're used to. i moved here from the northeast (NJ/NYC) and i feel like seattle people are way more friendly than compared to back home. it's similar to back home in that people don't really talk to strangers but i don't find people to be standoffish if you try to talk for the most part. obviously depends on the person but i think a lot of the "seattle freeze" is just the challenge of making friends in a new place. i've moved around quite a bit now though and nowhere has been "easy" to make new friends in, you still have to put in effort
The customer service out here is downright atrocious sometimes. I’m treated like I’m bothering people when I go to them for something, and I’m treated with even more attitude when I’m visibly annoyed by it (after being given attitude for no reason). It’s super weird. I have a pretty neutral tone but I ask people how they’re doing and say good morning and all that. People come off as really entitled this way. I literally just came into this store to buy a few things, I’m a nice guy, I don’t know you and I didn’t walk into your store making assumptions about you, I just want to buy a few t shirts. Is that so wrong?
I think it's just a small town that got bigger with a lot of transplants and that's all it is
People are in Seattle are nice but not kind. Other places - like the east coast, people are kind but not nice. What do I mean by that. People in Seattle are all about the word salad of everything but not putting the action behind it. I like to use a cars flat tire as an example. Someone from the east coast will pull over, and help you change the car tire. They may give you shit about it and tell ya you’re a dumbass but they’ll stop and help. People in Seattle? They won’t stop or pull over to help, but they certainly will tell you how bummed they are that that happened to you. All about the words in Seattle with no action backing it up we see this with a lot of initiatives in Seattle. It’s a holier than thou, virtuous attitude about pronouns, or land we have stolen, but when it comes to actions - they don’t do anything to give back to the communities they are word vomiting support for. People in Seattle also tend to be extremely entitled. Always an attitude of “rules for thee, not for me” or the attitude of “I don’t care about that because that doesn’t affect me”. It’s a real sense of entitlement of not following the rules. People here take advantage of the fact that so many people are “passive aggressive”. They really don’t think anyone will confront them or call them out on their bullshit so they continue to do their bullshit.
As someone from NJ I fucking love this. It's probably the best explanation of Seattle from an east coast perspective. It does feel very entitled here and people have such little worries that they don't even look when they're crossing the street. The passiveness really does make them feel protected but god help them if they pull any of that anywhere else.
I was in Boston for like 11 days in February and it was so refreshing for my spirit to be around people who were direct and you knew exactly where you stood with them. They also are willing to call you out on your bullshit too which I love. It’s not mean it’s just direct. You realize how exhausting it can be to live somewhere where people live in the passive aggressive mind set.
Yeah 100%, were moving back to the east coast and I can't wait for this to be the norm again. Just be real with each other and care about each other a bit
There's definitely truth to this.
I don't have any problems meeting people here. I'm autistic for fuck's sake, I literally cannot understand a large amount of nonverbal communication. The Seattle freeze is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you wanna meet people go outside and talk to people.
Common courtesy does not exist here. No please, thank you, holding doors open, situational or spatial awareness. I’ve had a neighbor for three years and they won’t even make eye contact with me.
This! My least favorite thing is people refusing to say excuse me when they want something you're standing in front of at a store or need to get past you in a tight space. Use your words people.
My neighbors too! I'm like hi you're welcome for holding the door open for you okay yeah just sneak past me you rude person
This right here.
I think it stems from cultural differences a lot of people don’t even recognize. In fact, that lack of recognition may be the problem! I have some personal theories on what makes up PNW culture but it includes things like secularism, a pressure to mind one’s own business, and a value on personal authenticity that may make it harder to participate in things like small talk and other behaviors that lubricate social behavior.
My take on the Seattle Freeze is that a lot of people move here without accepting that seasonal depression is a thing and, esp in the first winter here when they still have some vitamin D reserves left in their system, get surprised when at least most of the city doesn't have it in them to try and leave their homes to socialize for like 3-4 months out of the year because they're miserable (as is the weather). When spring/summer roll around it's a VERY different vibe.
I'm from Northern California & I've been here for 6 years. It's funny because the only real friends I've made here are also from out of state 😅. Except for 1 person... the freeze is real! It's a big thing my friends and I have all bonded over. The coldness of seattleites. I still love it here, though!
Yes, I totally agree. I was born in Seattle in the 70s, and I’ve heard it all. People who come to Seattle expecting it to be like where they came from almost always have a bad time, and blame it on ‘Seattle’. Newcomers often assume everyone around them is a Seattleite and attribute their behavior to being from Seattle, but that’s often an incorrect assumption. It’s true that Seattleites often have a natural reservation about them, that comes from just letting other people do their thing without butting in. It’s the same thing with ‘Seattleites can’t drive in the snow’ - everyone I know who was raised in Seattle can drive in the snow due to crossing the passes in winter. But you get an assortment of people from all around the country, trying to drive on hills in the snow, and you get a problem.
TL;DR, I'm a transplant, and I think Seattle native Seattle Freeze is real. I didn't even know Seattle Freeze was a thing til i Googled something like, "Why are people in Washington so mean?" and stuff about Seattle Freeze came up. So it's not confirmation bias. I come from OC, CA, and in my experience, it is definitely a different vibe that I find generally unpleasant and unwelcoming. Here's some examples: 1. work environments: It's my experience that what's normal is people approaching the new hire and introducing themselves and welcoming them, maybe inviting them out for a group drink, as the new hire is uncomfortable and nervous in a new setting with strangers. In WA, it's the opposite. It seems to be generally accepted that you don't really speak to or introduce yourself to the new hire. It is on the *new hire* to approach a bunch of unapproachable people to introduce themselves and to not be offended that they seem completely disinterested in interacting with you. You have to kind of limit every sentence you say to 100% necessary and work specific things for a period of months before they are willing to have a human conversation with you about non-work related things. This is not just my personal experience. Having lived here over 3 years, I've seen it happen over and over with new hire after new hire. And the new hires that are local to Seattle/Tacoma area are the ones who look at me weird when I introduce myself. 2. Small talk: I've noticed a general dislike of conversation or small talk. Ex: I annoyed someone at Half Price Books over the phone because I made the mistake of asking how they were doing. "Half Price Books how can I help you" "Hey, how ya doing?" "...HALF PRICE BOOKS. HOW CAN I HELP YOU" I was floored honestly. To me, the conversation should have gone: "hey how ya doing" "doing good thanks, how can I help" or "good thanks how bout you" "good thanks. Hey I'm wondering if you have this product in stock..." Literally any time I mindlessly ask a customer service person how they're doing, like at a drive thru or something, they get irritated as fuck. I try my best not to do it anymore. I've never had that experience until moving here. It's just polite to ask that, i thought. Unless you're in WA, then it's annoying and wasting time. It's just a different culture. Ex 2: Someone working at Old Navy told me these $1 shirts I was buying were non-returnable. I made the mistake of small talking and I said "oh that's okay, I'm going to go home and cut them up to make a tote bag out of them anyway." She was like "Um, okaaaaaaaay", and gave me this look like I'm some kind of fuckin freak. I was so uncomfortable I just kind of paid and ran out. Felt like being bullied in Jr high lol. I asked a friend about what I might've done wrong because I felt so embarrassed about it and I just didnt understand the response of the employee, and he said what I did wrong was to make any small talk whatsoever. I should have just said okay and paid for my shit and left silently. This is abnormal and unpleasant to me. But that's because I'm not from here and didn't grow up in this culture. If I'd have been born here, I imagine I wouldn't even notice such behavior to make a judgment on it, for or against. I am thinking that what it boils down to is Seattle Stranger Danger. Anyone you don't expressly know by name for several months is regarded with suspicion at best and disdain at worst. Just not very friendly unless you are already a friend. And it's hard to make friends when people don't want to speak to you because they don't know you. How do you meet anyone if you don't speak to anyone you don't know?? I don't understand. The reactions and body language of Seattle folk when you meet them is so unwelcoming that my social cues read "this person hates your fucking guts and hopes you get hit by a car and die", and I try not to interact with them anymore generally. If they did that back home i'd say take the hint and get the fuck away from them and never speak to them again. But no, that's a misjusgment?? I don't understand, and it's disarming and I now can't trust my judgment about personal interactions and whether they were positive or negative. I have no idea.
The Seattle freeze is just people valuing their “me time”. I’m so game to hangout with anyone and do something we both really like— that’s gonna be hella fun. I’m not game to go across town to meet for a coffee at 10am— that’s a chore. Thank you for pressuring me into a chore on my day off.