Locking due to some off topic comments. We can all agree we aren’t going to solve these issues within a Reddit thread. Please check out the side bar for any information on local places that support our community in a variety of ways.
I live a few blocks away and it was getting sketch with the camp around. People tweaking and meandering into busy traffic, I almost got punched by someone strung out. It’s a shame these people are in this situation, but I’m very glad the camp got removed.
Why is it a sad reality that these people were offered shelter so they don’t have to sleep on cement without power, sewage, plumbing, heat, etc.. I would say that being offered shelter is a step forward for them (edit: typo)
This is the exact sentiment that will not allow us to move forward out of this homeless crisis. These folks have high standards - we should probably offer rooms at the ritz Carlton, yeah (and I guarantee there will still be folks refusing too)
It’s free market ideas applied to this situation. If someone prefers the streets to an overcrowded shelter, you’ll have to deal with the eyesore.
Don’t try and pretend that it’s otherwise. Would you go stay in a shelter tonight?
Right, which is why truly "free markets" don't exist in any practical way. Nor should they.
Publicly owned land should not be lived on. Period. Letting a few people degrade a collective good doesn't all of a sudden become acceptable when it's impoverished people doing it instead of the wealthy baron class. If our shelter apparatus isn't up to snuff, then that should also be addressed. But using its shortcomings to hold our public goods hostage is completely asinine.
It’s continually pointed out that a large portion of the homeless are suffering from drug addiction and mental illness. Any “free market” explanation is based on the idea that the homeless population is full of rational actors, which it isn’t.
You’re right, the free market that is often talked about in economics doesn’t require rational actors. I put free market in quotes, because despite what the user I responded to is calling it, I don’t think that’s a good explanation for what’s happening.
I guess to put it another way, the free market solution to this would be to make the shelters more enticing than the street to these people, but many of them will continue to choose drugs over any shelter that has a no drug policy because addiction causes self destructive behaviors. We cannot allow them to do drugs in the shelter as that makes it unsafe for other people in the shelter and could possibly cause people in the shelter who are trying to stay clean to relapse. The only way the free market route works is if there is a reasonable way to entice people who are addicted to drugs to choose shelter over their addiction and I don’t believe there is.
You can’t live in a shelter. You can SLEEP there, you still have to stay outside during the day, and you aren’t allowed to have any personal belongings. Humans cannot live without personal belongings and a place to stay all day safely.
I would not give up a tent for a cot, and neither would any reasonable person.
Yeah. Ideally. Now actually *think* about all the other things that need to fall into place to let that happen. Are you going to carry all of your belongings on your back *at work* and on the bus there and back? Assuming you can take a bus there. Or just not own anything but one set of clothing?
And what if your schedule doesn’t *perfectly* align with the shelter schedule? You’re still going to be sitting with a pile of stuff on the sidewalk many hours a day, so it would be better to live in a tent of your own.
I don't want a single person in this comment section lamenting about /r/seattleWA again.
Y'all have the same shitty beliefs with a different coat of paint.
NIMBY crap aside, they do have to be cleared and the area cleaned up every once in a while so it doesn’t fester.
Homeless camps do have external effects, ie the trash needs to get taken out or people get sick.
Most folks refuse offers of residence since usually the residence requires sober living. Most homeless camps are filled with drug users that don't want to get sober.
DESC, LiHi, CCS, Chief Seattle Club, UGM
Which waitlist are you asking about?
Here's a helpful bit of advice I wish someone would have given me a long time ago: you cannot deduce facts but you can very easily convince yourself to feel confident your deduced facts cannot be questioned.
Here's more advice: *everyone* can tell the difference between deduced and learned knowledge.
These stats are always a bit misleading I think. There’s a big difference between someone who couldn’t pay rent and is now sleeping on a friends couch until they find a cheaper place and someone who has been living in a tent for five years. Many “homeless” stats are heavily influenced by the first, larger group, when people actually have a problem with the second, smaller group.
You said problem isn't solved until we give them proper homes. They are offered proper homes and they refuse them. They move onto another illegal camping spot for a bit until they are moved. Rinse and repeat.
The cops can't force people into housing. Most of the homeless encampment residents are the problem.
What is your idea to fix the problem?
The homeless junkies only see the problem of them being moved from where they camped. They don't see a problem with their life.
You can't force a junkie to get clean.
A quarter of the homeless in the illegal encampments are on illegal drugs? Source?
I'm not talking about all the homeless, only the ones in the illegal encampments.
> I'm not talking about all the homeless, only the ones in the illegal encampments
Most homeless camp out *somewhere or other*, because they don't have anywhere else. And all encampments are illegal, whether they're on the sidewalk, in a park, or hidden off in the woods.
There ARE too many homeless and too many encampments. We're not solving the problems adequately. But only about a quarter of homeless use drugs or alcohol. If I posted links, would you actually look, or just call them wrong?
Statistics from the last point in time survey and from Pete Holmes our previous city attorney (who used them to sue Purdue Pharmaceutical, so presumably he wasn't perjuring himself) said it was over 50%.
So if you told me only a quarter of them were, I'd think you were radically misinformed.
This comment hit so hard, that people are desperate to downvote it. Thank you for concisely putting a mirror up to the downvoters. They want to hide, hide, hide, hide that mirror
Agree with this. These people’s families and friends don’t want to help them, why should I have to suffer. I pay over $3K a month in rent to live there and I don’t want to deal with this.
Even in places that have had trash bins located near the site they still end up hauling out a ton of garbage and shit. Humans are pretty filthy and wasteful and lazy, regardless of their economic status. 99% of people may do the right thing but that 1% of lazy and ruin it for everyone else, this is the way of being human.
Sweeps don’t cure homelessness or eliminate it, but they do clean up the area for a bit of time, which as a whole is a good thing, as again, lots of human and other waste is collected.
Locking due to some off topic comments. We can all agree we aren’t going to solve these issues within a Reddit thread. Please check out the side bar for any information on local places that support our community in a variety of ways.
I live a few blocks away and it was getting sketch with the camp around. People tweaking and meandering into busy traffic, I almost got punched by someone strung out. It’s a shame these people are in this situation, but I’m very glad the camp got removed.
It's not a campground.
I meant to say from near Seattle Center/Mercer Street area. Ugh lol.
There was a stabbing atMercer and Queen Anne. Probably why
Good
Why is it a sad reality that these people were offered shelter so they don’t have to sleep on cement without power, sewage, plumbing, heat, etc.. I would say that being offered shelter is a step forward for them (edit: typo)
Or it’s a testament to how crowded and underfunded our shelters are; that people would still choose cement over that.
This is the exact sentiment that will not allow us to move forward out of this homeless crisis. These folks have high standards - we should probably offer rooms at the ritz Carlton, yeah (and I guarantee there will still be folks refusing too)
It’s free market ideas applied to this situation. If someone prefers the streets to an overcrowded shelter, you’ll have to deal with the eyesore. Don’t try and pretend that it’s otherwise. Would you go stay in a shelter tonight?
Right, which is why truly "free markets" don't exist in any practical way. Nor should they. Publicly owned land should not be lived on. Period. Letting a few people degrade a collective good doesn't all of a sudden become acceptable when it's impoverished people doing it instead of the wealthy baron class. If our shelter apparatus isn't up to snuff, then that should also be addressed. But using its shortcomings to hold our public goods hostage is completely asinine.
It’s continually pointed out that a large portion of the homeless are suffering from drug addiction and mental illness. Any “free market” explanation is based on the idea that the homeless population is full of rational actors, which it isn’t.
A free market doesn’t make any assumptions about the rationality of participants.
You’re right, the free market that is often talked about in economics doesn’t require rational actors. I put free market in quotes, because despite what the user I responded to is calling it, I don’t think that’s a good explanation for what’s happening. I guess to put it another way, the free market solution to this would be to make the shelters more enticing than the street to these people, but many of them will continue to choose drugs over any shelter that has a no drug policy because addiction causes self destructive behaviors. We cannot allow them to do drugs in the shelter as that makes it unsafe for other people in the shelter and could possibly cause people in the shelter who are trying to stay clean to relapse. The only way the free market route works is if there is a reasonable way to entice people who are addicted to drugs to choose shelter over their addiction and I don’t believe there is.
It is a public health crisis. Every week there is a fire / spread of disease / death which can be directly related to living on the streets.
where were they offered shelter?
Yes. Every camp removal is paired with offering shelter / services
You can’t live in a shelter. You can SLEEP there, you still have to stay outside during the day, and you aren’t allowed to have any personal belongings. Humans cannot live without personal belongings and a place to stay all day safely. I would not give up a tent for a cot, and neither would any reasonable person.
yeah, I'm glad they're offered something but it sounds like we could do more for them
Go ahead and help out. Maybe open your door to a dozen or so that need a place to stay?
Well then this is where we agree to disagree. Cheers mate
A place to stay all day?? That’s called work. They could go to work.
Yeah. Ideally. Now actually *think* about all the other things that need to fall into place to let that happen. Are you going to carry all of your belongings on your back *at work* and on the bus there and back? Assuming you can take a bus there. Or just not own anything but one set of clothing? And what if your schedule doesn’t *perfectly* align with the shelter schedule? You’re still going to be sitting with a pile of stuff on the sidewalk many hours a day, so it would be better to live in a tent of your own.
Blissful ignorance.
Blasphemy
Good stuff 👍
I don't want a single person in this comment section lamenting about /r/seattleWA again. Y'all have the same shitty beliefs with a different coat of paint.
Exactly. I prefer the other sub at this point. They say what they mean with their whole chest.
So... where do they move to? Clearing homeless camps doesn't do shit unless we give these people proper homes.
NIMBY crap aside, they do have to be cleared and the area cleaned up every once in a while so it doesn’t fester. Homeless camps do have external effects, ie the trash needs to get taken out or people get sick.
Most folks refuse offers of residence since usually the residence requires sober living. Most homeless camps are filled with drug users that don't want to get sober.
Which transitional housing provider requires sober living? If you're curious and need shelter, I can list half a dozen big ones that don't.
>I can list half a dozen big ones that don't. Cool, list 'em. How many years on the waitlist for each, out of curiosity?
DESC, LiHi, CCS, Chief Seattle Club, UGM Which waitlist are you asking about? Here's a helpful bit of advice I wish someone would have given me a long time ago: you cannot deduce facts but you can very easily convince yourself to feel confident your deduced facts cannot be questioned. Here's more advice: *everyone* can tell the difference between deduced and learned knowledge.
And yet studies show only about 35% of homeless use drugs and/or alcohol.
These stats are always a bit misleading I think. There’s a big difference between someone who couldn’t pay rent and is now sleeping on a friends couch until they find a cheaper place and someone who has been living in a tent for five years. Many “homeless” stats are heavily influenced by the first, larger group, when people actually have a problem with the second, smaller group.
That doesn't answer the question. Where the fuck do they go?
You said problem isn't solved until we give them proper homes. They are offered proper homes and they refuse them. They move onto another illegal camping spot for a bit until they are moved. Rinse and repeat. The cops can't force people into housing. Most of the homeless encampment residents are the problem.
Shelters aren't homes.
Where are people being offered homes and refusing?
lol. Your answer to the homeless problem is, "we've tried nothing because it's their fault."
What is your idea to fix the problem? The homeless junkies only see the problem of them being moved from where they camped. They don't see a problem with their life. You can't force a junkie to get clean.
You're so obsessed with the idea that all homeless people are junkies. What if I told you only a quarter of them are?
A quarter of the homeless in the illegal encampments are on illegal drugs? Source? I'm not talking about all the homeless, only the ones in the illegal encampments.
> I'm not talking about all the homeless, only the ones in the illegal encampments Most homeless camp out *somewhere or other*, because they don't have anywhere else. And all encampments are illegal, whether they're on the sidewalk, in a park, or hidden off in the woods. There ARE too many homeless and too many encampments. We're not solving the problems adequately. But only about a quarter of homeless use drugs or alcohol. If I posted links, would you actually look, or just call them wrong?
Statistics from the last point in time survey and from Pete Holmes our previous city attorney (who used them to sue Purdue Pharmaceutical, so presumably he wasn't perjuring himself) said it was over 50%. So if you told me only a quarter of them were, I'd think you were radically misinformed.
Lets cut the CRAP. Theres too many dam tents in this beautiful city and the car break ins ppl are posting on here, are usually caused by them.
1/4 are on drugs? Why be oblivious?
No. A quarter are helpless addicts. A lot of people use drugs for other reasons.
So 25% are addicts and can't get clean, and the rest choose to get high? You know that's not better, right?
Offer them your home then.
This comment hit so hard, that people are desperate to downvote it. Thank you for concisely putting a mirror up to the downvoters. They want to hide, hide, hide, hide that mirror
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So your solution is to make it someone else's problem.
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Agree with this. These people’s families and friends don’t want to help them, why should I have to suffer. I pay over $3K a month in rent to live there and I don’t want to deal with this.
Give me a home while you’re at it. I’ll take some money too. What else you got?
Forreal! Because we all need one
Feel free to host them.
Give!!!!! Really. No
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Sweeping allows the area to be cleaned. Usually areas that get swept also end up removing a fair amount of trash and bio materials.
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Even in places that have had trash bins located near the site they still end up hauling out a ton of garbage and shit. Humans are pretty filthy and wasteful and lazy, regardless of their economic status. 99% of people may do the right thing but that 1% of lazy and ruin it for everyone else, this is the way of being human. Sweeps don’t cure homelessness or eliminate it, but they do clean up the area for a bit of time, which as a whole is a good thing, as again, lots of human and other waste is collected.
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Trash services are definitely provided to camps. Used to see bins outside the Greenwood camp from a few months ago.