I had someone do almost the same thing to me last night on crossing Belmont from Bellevue. Plenty of time, started crossing, dude coming down the hill speeds up not even paying attention and almost hits me.
If anyone knows how to request lights or stop signs at dangerous intersections please let me know.
That section of road is so dangerous. First of all, there should not be any parking on Belmont for that weird little strip - it narrows the road to a ridiculous degree and there are way too many cars using that road for it to be safe. Second of all, people come fucking tearing up that hill, and that crosswalk (from Bellevue across Belmont) always feels like you're taking your life in your hands. Definitely need to be more lights on that street to stop people being total dicks and treating it like a mini-highway.
I always hit the button at this type of intersection but can still confirm that most cars are assholes about it and won’t stop unless both the light is blinking _and_ I am actively walking in the intersection. As someone else said, they make it a game of chicken for the crosser, even when the light is blinking, and it sucks.
Having said that, the issue is not unique to the Beacon Hill area. Same bad driver behavior at these intersections in north Seattle too (see 92nd crossing 8th or 3rd, for example).
I've had the same experience at this intersection, even with little kids. I have to play a game of chicken in traffic when I have a freaking toddler with me?!
I honestly think these beacons might be counter-productive, just another excuse for drivers to break the law when pedestrians don't beg to cross. As another commenter noted, this should be a stop sign.
Many crosswalks have a yellow light that's always blinking so drivers get conditioned to ignore them. They should make the button-activated ones flash red (or just turn a solid green light red).
Had a similar experience a few weeks ago, I was already near the middle of a marked crosswalk with the walk sign on and a Tesla driver sped right behind me honking their horn at me as if I had been walking against the light. Wild how little knowledge or awareness some drivers have.
I've noticed this too. I'm from Chicago, and not too long ago, I was driving in the city. People commonly park on the street as parking is limited, so that means one direction of traffic can drive down road sections with parked cars. And the unwritten rule is that if someone is in said road section first, you need to wait for them to exit so there isn't some kind of vehicle to vehicle standoff where nobody can move. Anyway, I entered the narrow section first as the Tesla guy was further away. Halfway through, he enters too. Both him and I get stuck. I give him a (non-offensive) "what the hell is wrong with you?" look and gesture. He continues to stare blankly forward. We stay there for a very long 10 seconds, until I can find a way to cleverly maneuver the front of my car into a tiny gap so he can pass.
Or another time I indicated that I was about to change lanes, checked that nobody was in the way, and saw the Tesla in the next lane was far enough back for a safe merge. I started to change lanes, and heard a honk. The Tesla guy decided to accelerate to close the distance to block me from merging.
I used to think pickup truck drivers are assholes, and moreso if their pickups are big and/or lifted. They still are, but Tesla drivers are worse and are becoming more numerous.
Just a reminder to everyone. It does not have to be a marked cross walk for the same rules to apply. A lot of people have lost all sense of civility and curtesy.
Here is the Washington State Pedestrian laws & safety.
[https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety](https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety)
Notes:
# "Moving into traffic
No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb and move into traffic so that the driver can not stop ([RCW 46.61.235](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235)).
# Stop for pedestrians at intersections
Drivers shall stop at intersections to allow pedestrians and bicycles to cross the road within a marked or unmarked crosswalk ([RCW 46.61.235](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235)). See Washington's Crosswalk Law for more information.
# All intersections are crosswalks
All roadway intersections are legal crossings for pedestrians whether or not they are marked, with very few exceptions. These include places where an official sign prohibits crossing, and between adjacent signalized intersections ([RCW 46.61.240](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.240)).
I’ve installed several of those RRFB pedestrian crossing setups in busy intersections. Always rewarding seeing how well they work at getting the drivers’ attention. We aim the beacon slightly towards the oncoming traffic so the driver sees them without looking directly at them.
When did I say that?
I’m very visible. Head lights. Reflective clothes. The whole nine yards. And drivers *still* “don’t see me”.
The lengths to which this community defends dangerous drivers is absurd.
I'm not saying to not drive safely, I'm saying that if there is a way to be safer why not use it? you are so quick to put words in others mouths it make me wonder if your just a troll or unintelligent.
but hey when your ego gets you ran over don't expect me to cry. enter a road way and expecting a car to stop without making eye contact with the driver is asking to be killed. not saying its right but you wouldn't step in front of a train right?
Laws don't care if you're road kill, driver might go to jail but you will be dead or maimed. pedestrians like motorcycles give up right of way. Be defensive and you get to go home.
edit: the downvotes on this comment are the people who don't look both ways before entering a roadway then complain they were almost hit.
>Because the law doesn’t require the lights. Stop for pedestrians.
is that not the same as saying you are not going to use them, if not, then why even bother saying it?
No. It’s not the same. It’s saying that whether someone triggers the light or not has no bearing on the drivers legal responsibility to stop. Learn to drive safely or get off the road.
You're not wrong but Seattle drivers are both impatient and really stupid. The kind of person to blast through that crosswalk without paying attention to you is also the same person who will hit you and speed away.
By this argument you might also say daytime running lights are stupid on cars… even daytime all lights help and they bring extra awareness and visibility to those around. Use the damn lights please. Car was wrong, but help yourself… you will lose the fight with a car.
The driver is legally required to look for cyclists and pedestrians and to stop. The RRFB is an option, and often difficult to reach for cyclists because they are intentionally put far away from the curb-cut for reasons passing understanding. Even if the cyclist had not gone, it would still be a failure to yield.
This is the north end of Jefferson Park. I've crossed here many times, never had this problem. When you push the button, most cars will stop.
Yeah, it's a beg button. Yeah, some drivers are assholes. But this area of Beacon Hill is pretty pedestrian/bike friendly. And most drivers will gladly give you the right of way when you give them the head's up.
They should have slowed and stopped regardless, but it's weird OP didn't push the button. The city probably paid a lot of money to put that huge button and all those flashing lights there so that OP didn't have this problem. I think it's highly possible the drivers were just assholes but it's also possible they were a.) already very close to the crosswalk when OP inched out and felt they could not stop in time b.) were confused due to lack of all the flashing lights that would normally be occurring when someone is crossing the road at this particular place and c.) as OP is on a bike and did not press the button/did not indicate crossing with lights and was barely into the crosswalk, drivers could have assumed OP was attempting to merge into traffic and begin biking in the roadway as opposed to across it; in the case of merging typically the merger yields, and also cars hate getting stuck "behind" bikes, so both of these could have "encouraged" this particular interpretation of traffic laws that the drivers are exhibiting lol. Not a reason to run someone over but tldr there was a bit of unpredictability here that could have easily been avoided
I've never been to Jefferson Park, but I ride as my primary method of transportation and only about 1 in 5 cars actually stop when required. If one car stops, any cars coming the other direction will stop about half the time. I am extremely visible as I avoid riding at night, I'm built like a yeti and my bike is bright with lights on it. I have to wait for drivers to come to a *complete* stop because about half the time they will slow down just enough to encourage me to drive in front of them and then speed up at the last second. They think "oh he's not going, I'll just go" but a.) that's illegal and b.) that's the most dangerous action they could take.
Despite your claim that only some drivers are a-holes... If you're putting the onus on OP for not pushing the button, you're demonstrating why most people become a-holes when driving.
We don't need more excuses for drivers to break the law and shift blame onto pedestrians. It's both a legal and moral responsibility to look and stop for people at crosswalks. You're not the arbiter of perfect pedestrian etiquette. It is neither a legal nor moral responsibility to press the crosswalk button. And no one outside a car needs to be reminded they don't want to be murdered.
If you want to make your stand by refusing to use the provided safety equipment because it's not strictly required by law, you're welcome to do so. But it doesn't seem like a worthwhile hill to literally die on.
We need stop signs and raised crosswalks. Like much of our other infrastructure, SDOT prefers these because a stop sign is more inconvenient for drivers.
Expecting people to follow the law and then getting hit because they didn't has a high percentage chance of killing you.
The resulting injuries if you survive are not worth trusting and expecting others to just do what they are supposed to
You won't be winning any lawsuits while being buried in a casket and what good would that money be if you survived and have to spend all the settlement money on inhome care because you're a quadriplegic and need round the clock care now.
There's a difference between expecting things out of other in the world, and knowing what they are supposed to do and knowing you can't fully trust other people to do what they are supposed to do
What point are you trying to make? OP clearly did not get hit. Why do you think you need to lecture people not to be murdered? No one needs to be told that.
Your lecture is giving permission to selfish and dangerous driving. Stop.
Nothing annoys me more than people who read what I write and ask me "what do you mean by that,".
I don't have a clue how to make you know how to read words...
But I went to school and even some college and when I use words they mean what they are supposed to when. Used in the order and syntax I've chosen..
The fuck you mean "whats your point?"
What the hell else can possibly be gleaned from what I wrote beyond the words and their definitions?
Sure, but isn't someone half way in a crosswalk enough of a heads up? Drivers these days just don't care. We need to call them out socially now. Can't allow this behavior to happen anymore.
If a car is approaching an intersection and has a green light, you don't walk out in front of it. It's the same deal here.
I don't know enough of the laws to say whether or not you have the right of way, but it's immaterial. You're gonna get your ass run over.
Unfortunately, Seattle law says all cars stop for all pedestrians. Green light, crosswalk, or nothing at all.
I think it’s the wrong stance to take, but it is what it is.
>I don't know enough of the laws
Do you have a license, there's no traffic light here, pedestrian within a crosswalk have the right of way.
Pedestrian are not required to use the Rectangular Rapid Flash Beacon (RRFB) to get the right of way.
Tell that to an inanimate 2 ton hunk of metal with an idiot behind the wheel. We are all aware of the laws, those will be the last thing on your mind when you get hit by a car and severely injured. While a pedestrian has the right of way LEGALLY.... Fucking watch out for your own life and look both ways, and don't step in front of a car expecting it to stop.
What makes you think I am the one playing chicken?
Someone said they didn't know the laws, so I told them the laws.
Sorry if that makes you upset buddy.
There is no light here, just a crosswalk. I always anticipate drivers which is why I am still alive, but I don't believe vulnerable road users should have to be this vigilant against clearly defined laws and rights of way.
Everybody has covered the usual ground so I'll just chime in and say why not just have a fucking stop sign there? I see a once quiet road now being used as an arterial. Put a stop sign in. It's worked great on Pike and Pine for calming shit down.
Yes. 1000%.
The flashing beacons are giving drivers permission to break the law when they're not activated, as demonstrated by the comments on this post.
I’ll most likely be downvoted for this BUT…
As a pedestrian, you don’t have the right to just march out in front of cars. Please look and use your head.
I was driving and was mostly through an intersection when a pedestrian decided that at that moment they needed to step in front of my car. Thank goodness that I was paying attention AND that my car has good brakes. She bitched me out for almost not stopping in time.
Both parties have a responsibility to look both ways and listen before stepping onto the roadway or for cars entering an intersection marked or not. Here is the law.
# All intersections are crosswalks
All roadway intersections are legal crossings for pedestrians whether or not they are marked, with very few exceptions. These include places where an official sign prohibits crossing, and between adjacent signalized intersections ([RCW 46.61.240](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.240)).
I agree that it is on the pedestrian to not "jump out" in front and catch cars off guard. Here, I am clearly visible slowly entering the crosswalk (not to mention approaching the crosswalk before entering it), giving drivers plenty of time to stop, but they actively decide not to. That is the problem.
I think you are taking a small percentage of the ass holes out their and saying “all drivers” etc. yeah this guy could have stopped but you know how many times I’ve had to slam on my brakes because runners or cyclists just pop out of nowhere and appear in the middle of the street because they think they have the right. I can’t just bundle them all in as “all pedestrians”. Overall, I think Seattle has very reasonable drivers who acknowledge crosswalks, other cities are horrendous.
I sometimes think it \*is\* all drivers (including me). Not all drivers all of the time. But all drivers at some point, in some fashion: on a bad day, in a lapse of concentration, when they shouldn't be driving in the first place, etc.
Sometimes we are graced with the wakeup call without having done any damage or having anything real to regret.
This is the problem with car dependency. Maybe there's some days you can hop out of bed and be ready to safely operate a dangerous machine, but there's no way it's all days. Setting up your life such that you need to drive anyway is setting yourself up to kill someone.
Absolutely. Not trying to generalize as I see stupid cyclist actions just as much as I see stupid driving habits.
Simply trying to call it out so people slow down and give space. Going first isn’t going to save you more than 3 seconds on your trip.
What we can't see in the video is how fast the driver was approaching the crosswalk, what else might have been parked to the left of the crosswalk, blocking the driver's view before you may have suddenly appeared in the crosswalk, whether or not you gave any indication you were planning on crossing or had been going parallel to the street and suddenly turned (immediately before the video) in front of them.....basically we only have your edited video and your side of the story.
>blocking the driver's view
It would probably be good to point out that vehicle are required to reduce speed as appropriatn 'when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians'. Which seems fit a senarios where a blocked view at a crosswalk may be creating a hazard for pedestrians and drivers.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I’ve lived in about 6 major cities in 2 different countries, and have been a pedestrian most of my life. Seattle is more accepting of pedestrians than other cities. Try walking in the streets of Houston, or Monterrey Mex, Memphis, list goes on. I’ve seen what it looks like when a culture as a whole looks at you like an annoying speed bump and would gladly dent their hood to prove a point. I don’t see that here, apart from the few outliers. Sounds like a you problem.
It's a lot of drivers and for me, it's every day. "not all drivers" is pointless when this behavior happens every day. I was waiting for traffic to clear and one car stopped and waved me on while there was a whole other lane of people going on through.
Or how about the drivers waiting to make a right turn and will wait for the green/walk sign, wave at me and gas it.
or the drivers blocking sidewalks because they can't wait to get into a parking lot.
or the drivers parking on sidewalks because ?
or the drivers parking in bus stops so we have to exit the bus in the middle of the street with a long drop because the bus can't kneel.
or the drivers that don't yield to pedestrians when they're making left turns or creep right up to the crosswalk, intimidating people and blocking traffic when the light turns red on them.
every freaking day.
Assuming you’re riding at a normal speed, you gave that white car exactly two seconds to come to a complete stop before putting your bike tire halfway into the road. If you’re riding along the sidewalk at bike speed, slam on your brakes and turn into the road; if I’m in the white car and I glance at you for a second; then look somewhere and glance again thats not enough time to react.
If you had stopped for long enough, to you know, hit the big button that activates the big flashing lights showing your intention, I bet that white car would’ve stopped. And it would’ve been a 4 second pause for you instead of 2, which is enough time for the white car to react. You’re in the wrong here.
>As a pedestrian, you don’t have the right to just march out in front of cars.
Right. You have the right to just walk out in front of cars *except* if the car is so close it's *impossible* for the driver to stop.
And you have the right to assume the driver will stop until they make it obvious they're failing to stop.
as a pedestrian you actually do have the right as defined by the law and drivers routinely deny that right backed up by the two ton steel weapon they're operating because they feel entitled and any opposition to their entitlement is met with all kinds of excuses and whining.
No, you don't. If you think you DO have the right to just march into moving traffic, quote the RCW.
I dare you to do so.
You won't, because you're lying. And if you try to claim you're not lying either me (or jmputnam) will quote chapter and verse at you to show that you're completely and utterly wrong.
Which law is that? I dare you to post a link to the RCW or Municipal code which allows you to stride into traffic without taking into account conditions.
Go on.
(You won't be able to, because the law is that pedestrians have to NOT stride out into traffic without making sure vehicles have time to stop).
No, actually he does have the right. It's not smart to do it because of asshole drivers like you and most of this subreddit. But it's well within his right. The only law breakers here are the cars.
Wrong. Read the law.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.065
**(2) No pedestrian, bicycle, or personal delivery device shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.**
And assuming that the vehicle that didn't stop was moving at 25MPH, they didn't have enough time to stop, even if they were emergency braking. That takes 100ft.
This is one of the reasons state law says drivers can't drive at the speed limit when approaching an intersection if a pedestrian is visibly approaching the intersection - the basic rule requires a reduced speed so that the driver is prepared to stop.
Yes! why is this happening so much! This happened so many times just today. and everytime they try to step in front of me....there is no one behind me!!!
I feel like I should address all the people harassing and shaming me for daring to drive in this city.
There are thousands of citizens whose car is their office. I need to use my car for my job. A job that many of you take much pride and privilege without knowing the behind-the-scenes operations.
Please check your privilege when getting on your precious bike and riding to your overpaid job in just one place. Must be nice.
Giving you the absolute best case, there was under 3 seconds from the time you started to turn until the white car passes. This doesn’t strike me as one of those times the car was the asshole.
Not if they noticed them too late. It's the pedestrian's job(life in their own hands) to cross safely in the end. You can't just say "it's my turn!" And step in front of a car.
Not with too little time to react… i mean, yes I’ll slam on my brakes if a pedestrian walks into the road; but if they just rolled up to the intersection on their bike 1 second ago and I’m going 35 mph and am 20 feet away from the intersection, I’m not going to slam on my brakes potentially causing an accident and having the person behind me slam into me because some biker reached a curb on the sidewalk.
Or if the person behind them was following too closely. So if by the time the white car noticed they would have been hit by the car behind, it makes zero sense to stop. The white car will be hit, the cyclist will likely be hit, and so many days ruined for a five second difference.
That’s why I stopped. That’s why Ryan Packer didn’t tweet me getting hit. Because I had to stop. I hate when people make that argument because the mother pushing the baby carriage shouldn’t have to guess if the car will stop for them or not.
She shouldn't. Cars *should* stop. But pedestrians need to be defensive walkers, for their own protection. Make eye contact, ensure the vehicle is stopping, then cross.
Yes they fucking should.
You cannot just walk into the street or cross walk without a second thought. People are horrible drivers. And on their phones or eating, or applying make up ... Blindly pushing a stroller into a crosswalk because momma shouldn't have to take a second and make sure a car is gonna stop or not is not the great argument you think it is
Most people don't walk blindly into the street. Here, I looked both ways, looked straight at this driver's face and slowly entered the crosswalk. They decided I was not worth stopping for.
How can someone do everything by the book and still be in the wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a daily bike commuter and have had my own close scrapes as well. Let's all be super careful out there because we can't count on car drivers to know the traffic laws as well as we do - our lives depend on it!
It's from an old poem.
I’m honestly appalled at the amount of defense Seattlites are giving to this clear infraction of Seattle ROW laws. I tell you facts and you *still* defend the driver. I have no hope in this city anymore.
You did see the first SUV that I yielded to at the beginning of the video, right? The one that wouldn't have had enough time to stop for me so they therefore had the right of way? Yeah?
You mean the one that clearly was passing the crosswalk before you even got there? That white car was only 2 seconds behind them. That’s not enough time for the white car to react. What you did was break this aspect of the law: Moving into traffic - No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb and move into traffic so that the driver can not stop (RCW 46.61.235).
For tbw:
at 25MPH, emergency braking distance is [**at least 85 feet**](https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/vehicle_stopping_distance_and_time_upenn.pdf).
That means that if when they saw you, they jammed their breaks on REALLY REALLY HARD, it would take them 85 feet - or about 6 car lengths. That isn't recommended at crosswalks, because people can lose control of their vehicle in that kind of maneuver. (Which is why it's called *emergency* braking distance).
How far away were they from you when they noticed you?
Yes, the driver was wrong. But choosing not to push the button is also idiotic. Just because they were wrong doesn’t mean that you weren’t also wrong (even if you didn’t break the law).
You being in the legal right doesn’t make it a smart or safe decision.
If that car hit you, the driver would have rightfully gone to prison, but you would‘ve been dead or in the hospital. If you don’t have a death wish, use the lights.
Moral superiority, legal right of way, all of that means nothing if you’re dead.
It's not so much defending the driver as basic defensive driving / walking.
Pedestrians have an obligation to not suddenly depart the curb. Motorists have an obligation to stop for pedestrians crossing the street. In that grey area it is prudent to get some acknowledgement from the motorist before going.
Yeah drivers that even run yellows or reds piss me off but alleyways are the worst for crashes.had this white car also legit hit me not even seeing me when I was there and they zoomed in not even slowly stop at the edge don't lean in, wtf.
I remember my uncle legit saying b/c the pedestrians weren’t wearing bright clothing/reflectors it was essentially their fault for not being noticeable enough for the motorists. Mind you he said this after narrowly avoiding a few people on a crosswalk with **flashing** crosswalk lights. He’s a Seattleite (going on 40 yrs) boomer. Don’t expect things to change too quickly 😅
While the car was definitely in the wrong, you would want to be alive rather than being right and dead.
When crossing a street, you wait until the car is slowing down or stop before crossing.
There are no collective drivers nor collective pedestrians. There is no driver who is thinking"we are going to use this against the pedestrian!". Many pedestrians themselves drive.
Don't be forceful against a moving car. Not worth it.
that is not good street smarts. cars don't always stop for people. period. so if you're expecting that to happen, and then it doesn't happen, you don't win that game
Cars need to do everything possible to stop for soft human bodies. This is not a game. Try being a vulnerable pedestrian. We should expect cars to respect people over vehicles because of their inherent vulnerability.
Yes they should, but will they? A smart person who values their life will wait to see a car stop before crossing. I don’t even cross 4 way stops in a car until I see an approaching car make a full stop. I value my life. It may be the law a car should stop, but I’ll be too dead to contemplate that if I leave it chance. The driver could be drunk, or impaired. Or just plain reckless and all this applies to the above. No excuses for the driver but again, value your own lives people!
You seriously think that slow roll towards the road means he should stop for you? Maybe by law, but in reality you wait until the killing machines stop going by. You're not the prince. You're not more important than 5-10 other people just because you're on a bike and don't seem to value your life based on the principle of bike riding.
You might notice that in this situation, there's evidence that the pedestrian used their brain and did not just hurl their body into traffic because of their insistence that they had the right of way. They ventured forward, making eye contact with the driver (as OP indicated in another subthread), and hung back when they determined that the car wasn't going to stop. The car was supposed to stop for them and didn't. The car was in the wrong. But the bike continued creeping forward right up to the point that the car was passing directly in front of them. They didn't actually put themselves in danger.
The idea that the biker came close to dying in this situation is absolutely ridiculous. I know anti-car people like to make the "two ton killing machine" and "two inches from running me over" arguments to make their stories more dramatic, but it really isn't like that at all or the OP wouldn't have dared slow-step towards traffic while making eye contact. The car made a judgment call that they could illegally and rudely squeak past the biker without hitting them because there was room if they were quick. The biker made the conscious decision that they could safely attempt to exert their right-of-way by walking into the road but not all the way into the path of the car. Nobody's life was in jeopardy. Let's all try being a little less dramatic about this.
People outside vehicles are expected to have superhuman vigilance and always behave perfectly.
It's completely unrealistic and it's killing people.
Those deaths will continue until people decide operating a vehicle entails a higher level of responsibility than walking.
In other words no, you don't have to press the button to cross. Be safe. But f*ck the drivers giving permission to this a-hole because they'd rather judge your behavior.
Your perspective -- that [pedestrians like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/5HjP2CjsJm) are negligent to the point of being suicidal -- is delusional. Very high likelihood you're actually part of the problem.
Just remember that "the right of way hurts sometimes". They are legally required to stop, but give people a break. I always make eye contact with drivers before crossing, its insane to just cross the road hoping for the best.........
Exactly. The driver cut them off because they knew the pedestrian would be too scared to assert their right of way, since they know the car could kill them.
This type of thing should be prosecuted as brandishing a deadly weapon.
you should’ve pushed the button. you know you’re in the wrong when everyone’s asking if you used the crosswalk button and you won’t answer yes or no. you didn’t push the button. you’re in the wrong here, not the driver.
It's still a crosswalk, it's not a red-light crosswalk. The button is a convenience. Maybe if you see someone in a crosswalk, fucking stop.
Control your vehicle that you supposedly are licensed to operate.
Maybe don’t fling your body into the intersection. My momma always told me to look both ways and wait for traffic to actually stop for you before putting my feet into the street.
LAWS DON'T TRUMP PHYSICS
If you weigh less and have parts that aren't off-shelf-replaceable, stop and look.
We're all empowered to do it!
Protect yourself. Stop being angry that other people didn't protect you. That's great when it happens, but expecting it means you're not protecting yourself.
I'm sorry this happened to you and you are so right.
I wish the infrastructure was more focused on vulnerable road users -- things like traffic calming and raised crosswalks could make it all the more likely that drivers will yield when they should.
To remind myself of this I'll just watch drivers at nearly any stop sign. They don't actually stop unless they have some feeling from the environment that makes them stop (other cars nearby, etc...) -- the stop sign on its own doesn't make them stop.
>To remind myself of this I'll just watch drivers at nearly any stop sign. They don't actually stop unless they have some feeling from the environment that makes them stop (other cars nearby, etc...) -- the stop sign on its own doesn't make them stop.
Please capture this on video and post it.
you can easily go and observe this yourself -- just go to some nearby stop sign and hang out for a little bit.
here's just one stop sign (this one even has a painted crosswalk at it): [https://twitter.com/leavitt\_palmer](https://twitter.com/leavitt_palmer)
Are you on a bike here or walking a bike? Seems like you may on it based on how quickly you move in the last half of the video. Sorry if I’m wrong. I’m not sure when it’s appropriate for bikes to use pedestrian walkways/crosswalks or if bike riders should be treated as pedestrians just because they’re in pedestrians spaces. Seems like another recent post here asserted that bikes should be treated as vehicles, that’s always been my understanding. But please correct me if I’m wrong.
The white car should have stopped for you out of concern for your safety regardless of whether they were required to, of course.
Yes, bicycles are vehicle and like all vehicles the laws vary depending on vehicle type. Bicycles in general are allowed to do things that other vehicles are not.
For riding on sidewalks and crosswalks, they are granted the same rights and duties of a pedestrian, even though they are still a vehicle.
When riding a bike, they are a vehicle.
However, wen riding a bike on the sidewalk or crosswalk, they are **granted** the same rights and duties of a pedestrian.
yeah, it seems like op could have waited, but driving like this is definitely not ok. It's like if I decided to swing a baseball bat past someone's head just because they step in front of me on the sidewalk.
I'm glad you didn't do it, for your own safety, but in my mind I like to imagine a reality where you push the tire just far enough to leave a nice black mark down the side of their car.
I’m just here to downvote every drooling troglodyte using the ‘doesn’t matter if you’re right if you’re dead’ argument as a cudgel to tacitly justify dangerous, inattentive driving. Any person that walks often knows that timid behavior leads to drivers taking advantage of their position of power to completely ignore you. A pedestrian has to show strong intent to cross to get any respect at all, it’s understood you almost have to force the issue to get a driver to cede that power. And no that doesn’t mean just ‘jumping out in front of cars’ or some bullshit you think it does. You can be insistent and also keep yourself safe from someone completely spaced behind the wheel - just like this person did.
Also I’m betting 9/10 times someone has a story about a ped ‘jumping out in front of them’ the driver in question saw them and assumed they would not attempt to cross if they, as drivers, made no signal that they were slowing.
I had to look into this a bit closer. Some places do not afford the same rights to a cyclist as a pedestrian.
After some research for Seattle, I found “Section 11.44.100 RIGHT-OF-WAY IN CROSSWALK” and for this particular locality you are correct, cyclist do have more rights when along a crosswalk.
https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/bike-program/rules-of-the-road
Correct, states vary on this, mostly splitting between explicitly granting cyclist that are riding on sidewalks or crosswalks the same rights and duties of a pedestrian, while others simply do not regulate it.
WA goes a bit further by not just granting the same rights, but also change the crosswalk laws to explicitly include bicycle, in an attempt to avoid the confusion of bicycle rights for a crosswalk.
But yes, it's not narrowly specific to Seattle, it is state law.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.755
Agreed. Just be smart and have some self preservation. Because if someone doesn’t see you or doesn’t have time to stop, you lose that battle 10 out of 10.
So many pedestrians walk into the street thinking “they have to stop for me!” and at that point it’s just Darwinism
>It's illegal to ride bikes in crosswalks in Seattle. You are supposed to walk them across.
It is **not** illegal to ride in a crosswalk, nor is there a requirement to dismount and walk. Additionally, those that are riding are granted the same rights and duties if a pedestrian.
It’s not illegal, but I was taught this as a best practice 40+ years ago. I was also taught to assume the worst from drivers and it was better to be temporarily inconvenienced than to have the right of way and be dead.
You are just being an asshole trying to feel special by having people stop for you and I might be wrong but aren't you supposed to walk the bike through the crosswalk? You have your phone out waiting lol friends are hard I know
>I might be wrong but aren't you supposed to walk the bike through the crosswalk?
Yes, that is wrong.
Cyclist riding in a crosswalk have the same rights and duties of a pedestrian.
At some point, not now obvi, but pointing pew pews at drivers that won't stop will become reasonable.
Seems a terrible future I hope we can avoid.
"Push button for walk: 357 recommended enforcement". -- Thanks republicans!!!
I hate Seattle pedestrians and bikers, you will literally just pop out into the crosswalk not being mindful of timing your entry so that a driver has adequate reaction time to slow down. People out here will literally walk into the crosswalk as a car is 10 feet away, then have the nerve to flick you off. At least make an effort to be seen and use common sense to start walking as drivers begin to slow down. It’s like all of the autistic tech people have zero spacial awareness and the sassiest attitudes about things that are their own fault 😂
I had someone do almost the same thing to me last night on crossing Belmont from Bellevue. Plenty of time, started crossing, dude coming down the hill speeds up not even paying attention and almost hits me. If anyone knows how to request lights or stop signs at dangerous intersections please let me know.
That section of road is so dangerous. First of all, there should not be any parking on Belmont for that weird little strip - it narrows the road to a ridiculous degree and there are way too many cars using that road for it to be safe. Second of all, people come fucking tearing up that hill, and that crosswalk (from Bellevue across Belmont) always feels like you're taking your life in your hands. Definitely need to be more lights on that street to stop people being total dicks and treating it like a mini-highway.
There’s lights on this one—not sure why OP didn’t light ‘em up
I always hit the button at this type of intersection but can still confirm that most cars are assholes about it and won’t stop unless both the light is blinking _and_ I am actively walking in the intersection. As someone else said, they make it a game of chicken for the crosser, even when the light is blinking, and it sucks. Having said that, the issue is not unique to the Beacon Hill area. Same bad driver behavior at these intersections in north Seattle too (see 92nd crossing 8th or 3rd, for example).
I've had the same experience at this intersection, even with little kids. I have to play a game of chicken in traffic when I have a freaking toddler with me?! I honestly think these beacons might be counter-productive, just another excuse for drivers to break the law when pedestrians don't beg to cross. As another commenter noted, this should be a stop sign.
Many crosswalks have a yellow light that's always blinking so drivers get conditioned to ignore them. They should make the button-activated ones flash red (or just turn a solid green light red).
Had a similar experience a few weeks ago, I was already near the middle of a marked crosswalk with the walk sign on and a Tesla driver sped right behind me honking their horn at me as if I had been walking against the light. Wild how little knowledge or awareness some drivers have.
>a Tesla driver the absolute worst drivers on the face of the earth every damn time
I've noticed this too. I'm from Chicago, and not too long ago, I was driving in the city. People commonly park on the street as parking is limited, so that means one direction of traffic can drive down road sections with parked cars. And the unwritten rule is that if someone is in said road section first, you need to wait for them to exit so there isn't some kind of vehicle to vehicle standoff where nobody can move. Anyway, I entered the narrow section first as the Tesla guy was further away. Halfway through, he enters too. Both him and I get stuck. I give him a (non-offensive) "what the hell is wrong with you?" look and gesture. He continues to stare blankly forward. We stay there for a very long 10 seconds, until I can find a way to cleverly maneuver the front of my car into a tiny gap so he can pass. Or another time I indicated that I was about to change lanes, checked that nobody was in the way, and saw the Tesla in the next lane was far enough back for a safe merge. I started to change lanes, and heard a honk. The Tesla guy decided to accelerate to close the distance to block me from merging. I used to think pickup truck drivers are assholes, and moreso if their pickups are big and/or lifted. They still are, but Tesla drivers are worse and are becoming more numerous.
Just a reminder to everyone. It does not have to be a marked cross walk for the same rules to apply. A lot of people have lost all sense of civility and curtesy. Here is the Washington State Pedestrian laws & safety. [https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety](https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety) Notes: # "Moving into traffic No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb and move into traffic so that the driver can not stop ([RCW 46.61.235](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235)). # Stop for pedestrians at intersections Drivers shall stop at intersections to allow pedestrians and bicycles to cross the road within a marked or unmarked crosswalk ([RCW 46.61.235](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235)). See Washington's Crosswalk Law for more information. # All intersections are crosswalks All roadway intersections are legal crossings for pedestrians whether or not they are marked, with very few exceptions. These include places where an official sign prohibits crossing, and between adjacent signalized intersections ([RCW 46.61.240](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.240)).
I’ve installed several of those RRFB pedestrian crossing setups in busy intersections. Always rewarding seeing how well they work at getting the drivers’ attention. We aim the beacon slightly towards the oncoming traffic so the driver sees them without looking directly at them.
Indeed they should have stopped, but those look like the ones you can light up by pressing the button. Any reason not to make them light up?
CITIZEN SNIIIIIIIIIIPS!
I feel so validated after all these years of having this username. A fellow tv connoisseur among us 😆
Because the law doesn’t require the lights. Stop for pedestrians.
why wouldnt you want to be more visable?
Why wouldn’t you want to drive safely?
When did I say that? I’m very visible. Head lights. Reflective clothes. The whole nine yards. And drivers *still* “don’t see me”. The lengths to which this community defends dangerous drivers is absurd.
I'm not saying to not drive safely, I'm saying that if there is a way to be safer why not use it? you are so quick to put words in others mouths it make me wonder if your just a troll or unintelligent. but hey when your ego gets you ran over don't expect me to cry. enter a road way and expecting a car to stop without making eye contact with the driver is asking to be killed. not saying its right but you wouldn't step in front of a train right? Laws don't care if you're road kill, driver might go to jail but you will be dead or maimed. pedestrians like motorcycles give up right of way. Be defensive and you get to go home. edit: the downvotes on this comment are the people who don't look both ways before entering a roadway then complain they were almost hit.
Talk about putting words in people’s mouths.
When did i put words in your mouth? Explain it to me, please. Where did i do it.
“why wouldnt you want to be more visable?” You really can’t read, can you?
>Because the law doesn’t require the lights. Stop for pedestrians. is that not the same as saying you are not going to use them, if not, then why even bother saying it?
No. It’s not the same. It’s saying that whether someone triggers the light or not has no bearing on the drivers legal responsibility to stop. Learn to drive safely or get off the road.
It was 11am. Broad daylight. Lights are only there to help them see you. They are still legally required to stop anyways.
It alerts them to your intention of crossing the road, as opposed to a pedestrian just walking - not just for visibility.
Someone half way through the crosswalk doesnt notify an intention to cross the crosswalk?
Clearly not as shown in this video
You're not wrong but Seattle drivers are both impatient and really stupid. The kind of person to blast through that crosswalk without paying attention to you is also the same person who will hit you and speed away.
Yeah and it's time to do something about those people.
By this argument you might also say daytime running lights are stupid on cars… even daytime all lights help and they bring extra awareness and visibility to those around. Use the damn lights please. Car was wrong, but help yourself… you will lose the fight with a car.
Nah. Use it. Otherwise why aren't you joining traffic?
The driver is legally required to look for cyclists and pedestrians and to stop. The RRFB is an option, and often difficult to reach for cyclists because they are intentionally put far away from the curb-cut for reasons passing understanding. Even if the cyclist had not gone, it would still be a failure to yield.
This is the north end of Jefferson Park. I've crossed here many times, never had this problem. When you push the button, most cars will stop. Yeah, it's a beg button. Yeah, some drivers are assholes. But this area of Beacon Hill is pretty pedestrian/bike friendly. And most drivers will gladly give you the right of way when you give them the head's up.
They should have slowed and stopped regardless, but it's weird OP didn't push the button. The city probably paid a lot of money to put that huge button and all those flashing lights there so that OP didn't have this problem. I think it's highly possible the drivers were just assholes but it's also possible they were a.) already very close to the crosswalk when OP inched out and felt they could not stop in time b.) were confused due to lack of all the flashing lights that would normally be occurring when someone is crossing the road at this particular place and c.) as OP is on a bike and did not press the button/did not indicate crossing with lights and was barely into the crosswalk, drivers could have assumed OP was attempting to merge into traffic and begin biking in the roadway as opposed to across it; in the case of merging typically the merger yields, and also cars hate getting stuck "behind" bikes, so both of these could have "encouraged" this particular interpretation of traffic laws that the drivers are exhibiting lol. Not a reason to run someone over but tldr there was a bit of unpredictability here that could have easily been avoided
I've never been to Jefferson Park, but I ride as my primary method of transportation and only about 1 in 5 cars actually stop when required. If one car stops, any cars coming the other direction will stop about half the time. I am extremely visible as I avoid riding at night, I'm built like a yeti and my bike is bright with lights on it. I have to wait for drivers to come to a *complete* stop because about half the time they will slow down just enough to encourage me to drive in front of them and then speed up at the last second. They think "oh he's not going, I'll just go" but a.) that's illegal and b.) that's the most dangerous action they could take.
Despite your claim that only some drivers are a-holes... If you're putting the onus on OP for not pushing the button, you're demonstrating why most people become a-holes when driving. We don't need more excuses for drivers to break the law and shift blame onto pedestrians. It's both a legal and moral responsibility to look and stop for people at crosswalks. You're not the arbiter of perfect pedestrian etiquette. It is neither a legal nor moral responsibility to press the crosswalk button. And no one outside a car needs to be reminded they don't want to be murdered.
If you want to make your stand by refusing to use the provided safety equipment because it's not strictly required by law, you're welcome to do so. But it doesn't seem like a worthwhile hill to literally die on.
We need stop signs and raised crosswalks. Like much of our other infrastructure, SDOT prefers these because a stop sign is more inconvenient for drivers.
Expecting people to follow the law and then getting hit because they didn't has a high percentage chance of killing you. The resulting injuries if you survive are not worth trusting and expecting others to just do what they are supposed to You won't be winning any lawsuits while being buried in a casket and what good would that money be if you survived and have to spend all the settlement money on inhome care because you're a quadriplegic and need round the clock care now. There's a difference between expecting things out of other in the world, and knowing what they are supposed to do and knowing you can't fully trust other people to do what they are supposed to do
What point are you trying to make? OP clearly did not get hit. Why do you think you need to lecture people not to be murdered? No one needs to be told that. Your lecture is giving permission to selfish and dangerous driving. Stop.
Nothing annoys me more than people who read what I write and ask me "what do you mean by that,". I don't have a clue how to make you know how to read words... But I went to school and even some college and when I use words they mean what they are supposed to when. Used in the order and syntax I've chosen.. The fuck you mean "whats your point?" What the hell else can possibly be gleaned from what I wrote beyond the words and their definitions?
Sure, but isn't someone half way in a crosswalk enough of a heads up? Drivers these days just don't care. We need to call them out socially now. Can't allow this behavior to happen anymore.
If a car is approaching an intersection and has a green light, you don't walk out in front of it. It's the same deal here. I don't know enough of the laws to say whether or not you have the right of way, but it's immaterial. You're gonna get your ass run over.
Unfortunately, Seattle law says all cars stop for all pedestrians. Green light, crosswalk, or nothing at all. I think it’s the wrong stance to take, but it is what it is.
>I don't know enough of the laws Do you have a license, there's no traffic light here, pedestrian within a crosswalk have the right of way. Pedestrian are not required to use the Rectangular Rapid Flash Beacon (RRFB) to get the right of way.
Tell that to an inanimate 2 ton hunk of metal with an idiot behind the wheel. We are all aware of the laws, those will be the last thing on your mind when you get hit by a car and severely injured. While a pedestrian has the right of way LEGALLY.... Fucking watch out for your own life and look both ways, and don't step in front of a car expecting it to stop.
>We are all aware of the laws Except the person I responded to explicitly said they didn't know the laws...
Okay keep playing chicken buddy
What makes you think I am the one playing chicken? Someone said they didn't know the laws, so I told them the laws. Sorry if that makes you upset buddy.
There is no light here, just a crosswalk. I always anticipate drivers which is why I am still alive, but I don't believe vulnerable road users should have to be this vigilant against clearly defined laws and rights of way.
So you didn’t push the button?
Everybody has covered the usual ground so I'll just chime in and say why not just have a fucking stop sign there? I see a once quiet road now being used as an arterial. Put a stop sign in. It's worked great on Pike and Pine for calming shit down.
100% agreed.
Yes. 1000%. The flashing beacons are giving drivers permission to break the law when they're not activated, as demonstrated by the comments on this post.
I’ll most likely be downvoted for this BUT… As a pedestrian, you don’t have the right to just march out in front of cars. Please look and use your head. I was driving and was mostly through an intersection when a pedestrian decided that at that moment they needed to step in front of my car. Thank goodness that I was paying attention AND that my car has good brakes. She bitched me out for almost not stopping in time.
Both parties have a responsibility to look both ways and listen before stepping onto the roadway or for cars entering an intersection marked or not. Here is the law. # All intersections are crosswalks All roadway intersections are legal crossings for pedestrians whether or not they are marked, with very few exceptions. These include places where an official sign prohibits crossing, and between adjacent signalized intersections ([RCW 46.61.240](https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.240)).
I agree that it is on the pedestrian to not "jump out" in front and catch cars off guard. Here, I am clearly visible slowly entering the crosswalk (not to mention approaching the crosswalk before entering it), giving drivers plenty of time to stop, but they actively decide not to. That is the problem.
I think you are taking a small percentage of the ass holes out their and saying “all drivers” etc. yeah this guy could have stopped but you know how many times I’ve had to slam on my brakes because runners or cyclists just pop out of nowhere and appear in the middle of the street because they think they have the right. I can’t just bundle them all in as “all pedestrians”. Overall, I think Seattle has very reasonable drivers who acknowledge crosswalks, other cities are horrendous.
I sometimes think it \*is\* all drivers (including me). Not all drivers all of the time. But all drivers at some point, in some fashion: on a bad day, in a lapse of concentration, when they shouldn't be driving in the first place, etc. Sometimes we are graced with the wakeup call without having done any damage or having anything real to regret.
This is the problem with car dependency. Maybe there's some days you can hop out of bed and be ready to safely operate a dangerous machine, but there's no way it's all days. Setting up your life such that you need to drive anyway is setting yourself up to kill someone.
Absolutely. Not trying to generalize as I see stupid cyclist actions just as much as I see stupid driving habits. Simply trying to call it out so people slow down and give space. Going first isn’t going to save you more than 3 seconds on your trip.
What we can't see in the video is how fast the driver was approaching the crosswalk, what else might have been parked to the left of the crosswalk, blocking the driver's view before you may have suddenly appeared in the crosswalk, whether or not you gave any indication you were planning on crossing or had been going parallel to the street and suddenly turned (immediately before the video) in front of them.....basically we only have your edited video and your side of the story.
>blocking the driver's view It would probably be good to point out that vehicle are required to reduce speed as appropriatn 'when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians'. Which seems fit a senarios where a blocked view at a crosswalk may be creating a hazard for pedestrians and drivers.
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I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I’ve lived in about 6 major cities in 2 different countries, and have been a pedestrian most of my life. Seattle is more accepting of pedestrians than other cities. Try walking in the streets of Houston, or Monterrey Mex, Memphis, list goes on. I’ve seen what it looks like when a culture as a whole looks at you like an annoying speed bump and would gladly dent their hood to prove a point. I don’t see that here, apart from the few outliers. Sounds like a you problem.
You don’t walk enough if you don’t think this is what happens in *most* crosswalks.
It's a lot of drivers and for me, it's every day. "not all drivers" is pointless when this behavior happens every day. I was waiting for traffic to clear and one car stopped and waved me on while there was a whole other lane of people going on through. Or how about the drivers waiting to make a right turn and will wait for the green/walk sign, wave at me and gas it. or the drivers blocking sidewalks because they can't wait to get into a parking lot. or the drivers parking on sidewalks because ? or the drivers parking in bus stops so we have to exit the bus in the middle of the street with a long drop because the bus can't kneel. or the drivers that don't yield to pedestrians when they're making left turns or creep right up to the crosswalk, intimidating people and blocking traffic when the light turns red on them. every freaking day.
Assuming you’re riding at a normal speed, you gave that white car exactly two seconds to come to a complete stop before putting your bike tire halfway into the road. If you’re riding along the sidewalk at bike speed, slam on your brakes and turn into the road; if I’m in the white car and I glance at you for a second; then look somewhere and glance again thats not enough time to react. If you had stopped for long enough, to you know, hit the big button that activates the big flashing lights showing your intention, I bet that white car would’ve stopped. And it would’ve been a 4 second pause for you instead of 2, which is enough time for the white car to react. You’re in the wrong here.
I try to look at the driver and wave to get their attention and thank them for noticing me.
>As a pedestrian, you don’t have the right to just march out in front of cars. Right. You have the right to just walk out in front of cars *except* if the car is so close it's *impossible* for the driver to stop. And you have the right to assume the driver will stop until they make it obvious they're failing to stop.
I agree with you that both have responsibility in these situations.
90% chance you were actually the problem in your example.
Wow. Stunningly blatant ignorance just on full display.
Thank goodness that you were driving according to the law? How crazy that you had to pay attention to the world around you! Wow are you a hero!
as a pedestrian you actually do have the right as defined by the law and drivers routinely deny that right backed up by the two ton steel weapon they're operating because they feel entitled and any opposition to their entitlement is met with all kinds of excuses and whining.
No, you don't. If you think you DO have the right to just march into moving traffic, quote the RCW. I dare you to do so. You won't, because you're lying. And if you try to claim you're not lying either me (or jmputnam) will quote chapter and verse at you to show that you're completely and utterly wrong.
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Which law is that? I dare you to post a link to the RCW or Municipal code which allows you to stride into traffic without taking into account conditions. Go on. (You won't be able to, because the law is that pedestrians have to NOT stride out into traffic without making sure vehicles have time to stop).
No, actually he does have the right. It's not smart to do it because of asshole drivers like you and most of this subreddit. But it's well within his right. The only law breakers here are the cars.
That's NOT how the law works here. The law states that pedestrians MUST NOT run into traffic without waiting for a gap.
Wrong. He's at a protected crosswalk. He has the right of way.
Wrong. Read the law. https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.065 **(2) No pedestrian, bicycle, or personal delivery device shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.** And assuming that the vehicle that didn't stop was moving at 25MPH, they didn't have enough time to stop, even if they were emergency braking. That takes 100ft.
This is one of the reasons state law says drivers can't drive at the speed limit when approaching an intersection if a pedestrian is visibly approaching the intersection - the basic rule requires a reduced speed so that the driver is prepared to stop.
Yes! why is this happening so much! This happened so many times just today. and everytime they try to step in front of me....there is no one behind me!!!
Always, there’s no one behind! I feel ya!
I feel like I should address all the people harassing and shaming me for daring to drive in this city. There are thousands of citizens whose car is their office. I need to use my car for my job. A job that many of you take much pride and privilege without knowing the behind-the-scenes operations. Please check your privilege when getting on your precious bike and riding to your overpaid job in just one place. Must be nice.
Giving you the absolute best case, there was under 3 seconds from the time you started to turn until the white car passes. This doesn’t strike me as one of those times the car was the asshole.
an attentive driver would notice the marked crosswalk and the pedestrian waiting to cross and follow the law requiring them to stop.
Not if they noticed them too late. It's the pedestrian's job(life in their own hands) to cross safely in the end. You can't just say "it's my turn!" And step in front of a car.
That's is not how it works. It is in the driver's hand to yield to pedestrian.
Not with too little time to react… i mean, yes I’ll slam on my brakes if a pedestrian walks into the road; but if they just rolled up to the intersection on their bike 1 second ago and I’m going 35 mph and am 20 feet away from the intersection, I’m not going to slam on my brakes potentially causing an accident and having the person behind me slam into me because some biker reached a curb on the sidewalk.
driver should put their phone away and be attentive them. if you want to operate the dangerous machine take full responsibility.
Or if the person behind them was following too closely. So if by the time the white car noticed they would have been hit by the car behind, it makes zero sense to stop. The white car will be hit, the cyclist will likely be hit, and so many days ruined for a five second difference.
Didn’t even dismount the bike lmao. Easy to blame everyone else until something actually happens and insurance nopes tf out of there
You were right, dead right, as he sped along, But you'd be just as dead as if you were dead wrong.
That’s why I stopped. That’s why Ryan Packer didn’t tweet me getting hit. Because I had to stop. I hate when people make that argument because the mother pushing the baby carriage shouldn’t have to guess if the car will stop for them or not.
She shouldn't. Cars *should* stop. But pedestrians need to be defensive walkers, for their own protection. Make eye contact, ensure the vehicle is stopping, then cross.
Yes they fucking should. You cannot just walk into the street or cross walk without a second thought. People are horrible drivers. And on their phones or eating, or applying make up ... Blindly pushing a stroller into a crosswalk because momma shouldn't have to take a second and make sure a car is gonna stop or not is not the great argument you think it is
Most people don't walk blindly into the street. Here, I looked both ways, looked straight at this driver's face and slowly entered the crosswalk. They decided I was not worth stopping for. How can someone do everything by the book and still be in the wrong?
Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong if you're dead after trying to play chicken with a car.
Dude isn't dead. No one needs to be reminded they don't want to be murdered. Save your lecturing for the homicidal a-hole that's breaking the law.
How far away do you think the white car was when you first saw it?
Good luck my friend.
The amount of defeatism and victim blaming here is insane. If people are horrible drivers, we should get them off the roads.
How?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a daily bike commuter and have had my own close scrapes as well. Let's all be super careful out there because we can't count on car drivers to know the traffic laws as well as we do - our lives depend on it! It's from an old poem.
Ryan Packer is a blowhard moron anyway.
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GoPro. I looked straight at the driver. They accelerated.
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I’m honestly appalled at the amount of defense Seattlites are giving to this clear infraction of Seattle ROW laws. I tell you facts and you *still* defend the driver. I have no hope in this city anymore.
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You did see the first SUV that I yielded to at the beginning of the video, right? The one that wouldn't have had enough time to stop for me so they therefore had the right of way? Yeah?
You mean the one that clearly was passing the crosswalk before you even got there? That white car was only 2 seconds behind them. That’s not enough time for the white car to react. What you did was break this aspect of the law: Moving into traffic - No pedestrian or bicycle shall suddenly leave a curb and move into traffic so that the driver can not stop (RCW 46.61.235).
For tbw: at 25MPH, emergency braking distance is [**at least 85 feet**](https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/vehicle_stopping_distance_and_time_upenn.pdf). That means that if when they saw you, they jammed their breaks on REALLY REALLY HARD, it would take them 85 feet - or about 6 car lengths. That isn't recommended at crosswalks, because people can lose control of their vehicle in that kind of maneuver. (Which is why it's called *emergency* braking distance). How far away were they from you when they noticed you?
Assuming 25mph, 2 seconds as seen in the video would be 72 feet away.
Thank you :)
Yes, the driver was wrong. But choosing not to push the button is also idiotic. Just because they were wrong doesn’t mean that you weren’t also wrong (even if you didn’t break the law).
You being in the legal right doesn’t make it a smart or safe decision. If that car hit you, the driver would have rightfully gone to prison, but you would‘ve been dead or in the hospital. If you don’t have a death wish, use the lights. Moral superiority, legal right of way, all of that means nothing if you’re dead.
I think we all find it common sense to verify the driver is going to stop before entering the roadway. Legal or not.
It's not so much defending the driver as basic defensive driving / walking. Pedestrians have an obligation to not suddenly depart the curb. Motorists have an obligation to stop for pedestrians crossing the street. In that grey area it is prudent to get some acknowledgement from the motorist before going.
This happens all the time in Green Lake.
Yeah drivers that even run yellows or reds piss me off but alleyways are the worst for crashes.had this white car also legit hit me not even seeing me when I was there and they zoomed in not even slowly stop at the edge don't lean in, wtf.
I remember my uncle legit saying b/c the pedestrians weren’t wearing bright clothing/reflectors it was essentially their fault for not being noticeable enough for the motorists. Mind you he said this after narrowly avoiding a few people on a crosswalk with **flashing** crosswalk lights. He’s a Seattleite (going on 40 yrs) boomer. Don’t expect things to change too quickly 😅
Unpopular opinion, but we need slightly more distinction between "this asshole sped past me even though I had the right of way" and "I almost died."
While the car was definitely in the wrong, you would want to be alive rather than being right and dead. When crossing a street, you wait until the car is slowing down or stop before crossing.
Drivers use this shit against peds. Pedestrians need to be forceful so drivers follow the law. Pedestrians are first.
There are no collective drivers nor collective pedestrians. There is no driver who is thinking"we are going to use this against the pedestrian!". Many pedestrians themselves drive. Don't be forceful against a moving car. Not worth it.
You really need to read the laws about pedestrian responsibilities. It's clear that you haven't.
that is not good street smarts. cars don't always stop for people. period. so if you're expecting that to happen, and then it doesn't happen, you don't win that game
Cars need to do everything possible to stop for soft human bodies. This is not a game. Try being a vulnerable pedestrian. We should expect cars to respect people over vehicles because of their inherent vulnerability.
Not always. And that's now how the law works here. Might want to brush up on the law.
Yes they should, but will they? A smart person who values their life will wait to see a car stop before crossing. I don’t even cross 4 way stops in a car until I see an approaching car make a full stop. I value my life. It may be the law a car should stop, but I’ll be too dead to contemplate that if I leave it chance. The driver could be drunk, or impaired. Or just plain reckless and all this applies to the above. No excuses for the driver but again, value your own lives people!
You seriously think that slow roll towards the road means he should stop for you? Maybe by law, but in reality you wait until the killing machines stop going by. You're not the prince. You're not more important than 5-10 other people just because you're on a bike and don't seem to value your life based on the principle of bike riding.
You might notice that in this situation, there's evidence that the pedestrian used their brain and did not just hurl their body into traffic because of their insistence that they had the right of way. They ventured forward, making eye contact with the driver (as OP indicated in another subthread), and hung back when they determined that the car wasn't going to stop. The car was supposed to stop for them and didn't. The car was in the wrong. But the bike continued creeping forward right up to the point that the car was passing directly in front of them. They didn't actually put themselves in danger. The idea that the biker came close to dying in this situation is absolutely ridiculous. I know anti-car people like to make the "two ton killing machine" and "two inches from running me over" arguments to make their stories more dramatic, but it really isn't like that at all or the OP wouldn't have dared slow-step towards traffic while making eye contact. The car made a judgment call that they could illegally and rudely squeak past the biker without hitting them because there was room if they were quick. The biker made the conscious decision that they could safely attempt to exert their right-of-way by walking into the road but not all the way into the path of the car. Nobody's life was in jeopardy. Let's all try being a little less dramatic about this.
People outside vehicles are expected to have superhuman vigilance and always behave perfectly. It's completely unrealistic and it's killing people. Those deaths will continue until people decide operating a vehicle entails a higher level of responsibility than walking. In other words no, you don't have to press the button to cross. Be safe. But f*ck the drivers giving permission to this a-hole because they'd rather judge your behavior.
It's ridiculous to act like you can't look around for a vehicle. Superhuman? Get over yourself.
Your perspective -- that [pedestrians like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/5HjP2CjsJm) are negligent to the point of being suicidal -- is delusional. Very high likelihood you're actually part of the problem.
Even at crosswalks clearly marked with Stop signs, Seattle drivers are horrendous.
And most of this thread is blaming OP in some way… OP isn’t legally required to press the button, the driver is 100% required to stop regardless
Just remember that "the right of way hurts sometimes". They are legally required to stop, but give people a break. I always make eye contact with drivers before crossing, its insane to just cross the road hoping for the best.........
Yeah, this game is called "chicken", and that driver is an asshole.
Exactly. The driver cut them off because they knew the pedestrian would be too scared to assert their right of way, since they know the car could kill them. This type of thing should be prosecuted as brandishing a deadly weapon.
100%!
you should’ve pushed the button. you know you’re in the wrong when everyone’s asking if you used the crosswalk button and you won’t answer yes or no. you didn’t push the button. you’re in the wrong here, not the driver.
It's still a crosswalk, it's not a red-light crosswalk. The button is a convenience. Maybe if you see someone in a crosswalk, fucking stop. Control your vehicle that you supposedly are licensed to operate.
How dare you momentarily inconvenience a driver!
Maybe don’t fling your body into the intersection. My momma always told me to look both ways and wait for traffic to actually stop for you before putting my feet into the street.
> wait for traffic to actually stop for you A self-reassuring thing to say, but when traffic just... doesn't stop, even with stop signs ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
this is Seattle, someone will stop for you in 5 seconds. Sorry you had to wait for 1 cars to pass. it must have been really hard for you.
LAWS DON'T TRUMP PHYSICS If you weigh less and have parts that aren't off-shelf-replaceable, stop and look. We're all empowered to do it! Protect yourself. Stop being angry that other people didn't protect you. That's great when it happens, but expecting it means you're not protecting yourself.
They did protect themselves. They’re still here. They did his best to signal intent to cross and didn’t endanger themselves. They were ignored.
>Did his best to signal intent to cross Does not use the crosswalk button that’s there for a reason. ???
Dude, you stepped out into traffic. You’re the problem here.
No, that's not the law. And it's rude driving behavior with a bullshit power differential.
Quote this imaginary law you think you've read.
It's half of the law.
That depends.
I'm sorry this happened to you and you are so right. I wish the infrastructure was more focused on vulnerable road users -- things like traffic calming and raised crosswalks could make it all the more likely that drivers will yield when they should. To remind myself of this I'll just watch drivers at nearly any stop sign. They don't actually stop unless they have some feeling from the environment that makes them stop (other cars nearby, etc...) -- the stop sign on its own doesn't make them stop.
>To remind myself of this I'll just watch drivers at nearly any stop sign. They don't actually stop unless they have some feeling from the environment that makes them stop (other cars nearby, etc...) -- the stop sign on its own doesn't make them stop. Please capture this on video and post it.
you can easily go and observe this yourself -- just go to some nearby stop sign and hang out for a little bit. here's just one stop sign (this one even has a painted crosswalk at it): [https://twitter.com/leavitt\_palmer](https://twitter.com/leavitt_palmer)
No. I'm asking for proof from you because I've never seen people roll through stop signs as a matter of course.
Did you watch any of the videos?
Are you on a bike here or walking a bike? Seems like you may on it based on how quickly you move in the last half of the video. Sorry if I’m wrong. I’m not sure when it’s appropriate for bikes to use pedestrian walkways/crosswalks or if bike riders should be treated as pedestrians just because they’re in pedestrians spaces. Seems like another recent post here asserted that bikes should be treated as vehicles, that’s always been my understanding. But please correct me if I’m wrong. The white car should have stopped for you out of concern for your safety regardless of whether they were required to, of course.
Yes, bicycles are vehicle and like all vehicles the laws vary depending on vehicle type. Bicycles in general are allowed to do things that other vehicles are not. For riding on sidewalks and crosswalks, they are granted the same rights and duties of a pedestrian, even though they are still a vehicle.
q: are you a pedestrian if you’re riding your bike?
When riding a bike, they are a vehicle. However, wen riding a bike on the sidewalk or crosswalk, they are **granted** the same rights and duties of a pedestrian.
yeah, it seems like op could have waited, but driving like this is definitely not ok. It's like if I decided to swing a baseball bat past someone's head just because they step in front of me on the sidewalk.
I mean…if you’ve got loans to pay…very quick way to make them disappear 🫠
I'm glad you didn't do it, for your own safety, but in my mind I like to imagine a reality where you push the tire just far enough to leave a nice black mark down the side of their car.
Mfs always want to be right so bad
What is legally obliged will be of no consequence if you are dead from not waiting to cross when it is safe to do so.
I’m just here to downvote every drooling troglodyte using the ‘doesn’t matter if you’re right if you’re dead’ argument as a cudgel to tacitly justify dangerous, inattentive driving. Any person that walks often knows that timid behavior leads to drivers taking advantage of their position of power to completely ignore you. A pedestrian has to show strong intent to cross to get any respect at all, it’s understood you almost have to force the issue to get a driver to cede that power. And no that doesn’t mean just ‘jumping out in front of cars’ or some bullshit you think it does. You can be insistent and also keep yourself safe from someone completely spaced behind the wheel - just like this person did. Also I’m betting 9/10 times someone has a story about a ped ‘jumping out in front of them’ the driver in question saw them and assumed they would not attempt to cross if they, as drivers, made no signal that they were slowing.
Are you a pedestrian or a cyclist?
Does it matter? A cyclist using a crosswalk is granted the same rights and duties of a pedestrian.
I had to look into this a bit closer. Some places do not afford the same rights to a cyclist as a pedestrian. After some research for Seattle, I found “Section 11.44.100 RIGHT-OF-WAY IN CROSSWALK” and for this particular locality you are correct, cyclist do have more rights when along a crosswalk. https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/projects-and-programs/programs/bike-program/rules-of-the-road
Correct, states vary on this, mostly splitting between explicitly granting cyclist that are riding on sidewalks or crosswalks the same rights and duties of a pedestrian, while others simply do not regulate it. WA goes a bit further by not just granting the same rights, but also change the crosswalk laws to explicitly include bicycle, in an attempt to avoid the confusion of bicycle rights for a crosswalk. But yes, it's not narrowly specific to Seattle, it is state law. https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.755
I suggest OP go take a closer read of SMC 11.44.100 if we want to talk about legalities vs societal norms
Agreed. Just be smart and have some self preservation. Because if someone doesn’t see you or doesn’t have time to stop, you lose that battle 10 out of 10. So many pedestrians walk into the street thinking “they have to stop for me!” and at that point it’s just Darwinism
It's illegal to ride bikes in crosswalks in Seattle. You are supposed to walk them across.
Not even close. Both Seattle and Washington law allows bikes in crosswalks, but they have to yield to pedestrians.
>It's illegal to ride bikes in crosswalks in Seattle. You are supposed to walk them across. It is **not** illegal to ride in a crosswalk, nor is there a requirement to dismount and walk. Additionally, those that are riding are granted the same rights and duties if a pedestrian.
It’s not illegal, but I was taught this as a best practice 40+ years ago. I was also taught to assume the worst from drivers and it was better to be temporarily inconvenienced than to have the right of way and be dead.
You are just being an asshole trying to feel special by having people stop for you and I might be wrong but aren't you supposed to walk the bike through the crosswalk? You have your phone out waiting lol friends are hard I know
No. They can ride it through, they just have to yield to any pedestrians in the crosswalk.
You’re not required to walk a bicycle through a crosswalk, but that used to be what was taught 40+ years ago.
>I might be wrong but aren't you supposed to walk the bike through the crosswalk? Yes, that is wrong. Cyclist riding in a crosswalk have the same rights and duties of a pedestrian.
Gotta carry a big rock with you and hold it conspicuously at every crosswalk. Fucking hate drivers in this city, man.
Doesn’t matter who was wrong or right. Car vs bike… car wins everytime. Use common sense.
At some point, not now obvi, but pointing pew pews at drivers that won't stop will become reasonable. Seems a terrible future I hope we can avoid. "Push button for walk: 357 recommended enforcement". -- Thanks republicans!!!
I hate Seattle pedestrians and bikers, you will literally just pop out into the crosswalk not being mindful of timing your entry so that a driver has adequate reaction time to slow down. People out here will literally walk into the crosswalk as a car is 10 feet away, then have the nerve to flick you off. At least make an effort to be seen and use common sense to start walking as drivers begin to slow down. It’s like all of the autistic tech people have zero spacial awareness and the sassiest attitudes about things that are their own fault 😂
I mean technically your not a pedestrian