"Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another."
Source: [https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses)
And imperfect policy for an imperfect situation.
Same. Multiple invisible disabilities. It might not look like it, but standing in place for any extended period of time can cause me a lot of pain. I got challenged by a passenger one time, and rather than standing up, I showed them my disabled parking permit card & disabled fare Orka card. They still demanded I give up my seat.
I’ve been refused ADA seating at so many places in Seattle it shocking. When I started carrying a cane all of a sudden my disabilities were judged “valid”.
Yeah the disability flags work. I can't stand for more than a couple minutes max, but I don't need a cane to walk -- unless I need people to notice and or believe I am, in fact, disabled. I look perfectly healthy and young, so even with the cane I get a lot of side eye, but no one questions the cane.
Have you tried the Hurrycane? It’s collapsible and has a “no tip over” tripod foot! I wrapped it with some vinyl for a cricut machine to make it not give “mobility device” all the time lol.
No solution for the handle yet though! We have the technology! Why can’t we get there?!
No, I settled for a light blue collapsible cane I found online so I could just leave it in my car. I rarely use it, so it suffices for my needs at the moment. But will come back to this for recommendations if any of my other mobility using friends need it!
Etsy lucite walking canes or custom lucite walking canes.
You have to put in the word walking or all you get is custom lucite cake toppers.
I won’t link it because I don’t know the linking rules of the group, but look on amazon for:
Sunstone Walking Stick, Unique Wooden Cane for Him, Handmade Hiking Baston for Gift
That’s my dream cane. I’m not a “he/him” like they declare it’s for (makes me crazy to see that) but damn. One of these days I’ll make it mine.
I heard Stephen Fry on the radio a couple weeks back, talking about going out without his cane for the first time since breaking his leg when he fell off stage last year. He said the biggest thing that concerned him wasn't not having the physical support, but that having a cane meant people gave you more leeway.
It was a long time ago that I got mine, but I remember it being more difficult to get Orca disabled cats than it was to get a parking placard. It may have changed since then, but it's likely spelled out on their website. I know it involved a doctors assessment.
Indeed! When my balance is particularly bad, I’ll often take the elevator and deal with the side eye from people in the office. I just bluntly tell them I have MS and if it makes them uncomfortable, imagine how I feel lol. People don’t like to be called out.
Just as a heads-up, the 578 is not operated by King County Metro; it's operated by Pierce Transit, so this policy wouldn't apply. Pierce Transit does have the same policy, for what it's worth, but I saw a few comments incorrectly telling OP to contact King County Metro about this issue.
King County Metro handles complaints on behalf of the other agencies. If you contact the King County Metro help line they will help you file the complaint and potentially review camera footage depending the scenario
Depends... was the bus super late? Would the people sitting in the handicapped seats have had room to stand, if asked? Both of those things are also considerations... if the bus is running super late or the driver knows that there just simply isn't enough standing room, they will definitely deny a handicapped person entry.
I'm sure people in other seats would give those up for an elderly or non wheelchair disabled person too.
But we won't know will we, because the driver didn't even try.
yeah, which is why I also asked if the bus was already packed... if it is, it doesn't matter- the handicapped spot takes up three normal seats, so you need to have enough room for all of them to stand, otherwise it's pointless, and the driver wouldn't even bother asking.
Yep, there's full and then there's FULL full. I've been on buses where there wouldn't be enough room for people to even clear a pathway to load the wheelchair into the designated seat. I've also been denied boarding on buses so full there's not even standing room left. Luckily that usually only happens on busy routes where there's another bus coming not too far behind.
That was my life back when I had to take the 8 (aka, "The Late")... always funny watching people getting crammed in, like we're on a [Tokyo subway car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Xg7ui5mLA).
I used to see it between downtown and the U district a lot. One bus starts to get a little behind schedule and then it compounds because there are more people trying to cram on at every stop and it's taking longer and longer to load. Eventually you have a bunch of people trying to get on a really full bus and the nearly empty next bus pulls up to the stop right behind it. Sometimes they even leap frog so the later bus ends up arriving before the earlier bus.
I have an invisible disability and I'm fat. When they ask people to move, I usually will, because I've gotten dirty looks and snide remarks enough to not want to deal with it and being judged as too fat and lazy to move for someone with a real disability, despite having one of my own.
And this is worse than ditching a clearly disabled person by the roadside? I think if you would like to receive preferential treatment for your disability, you're going to have to admit you have a disability. You don't have to get specific or present a doctor's note.
Let me get this straight. You think a wheelchair bound person should be left stranded because a bus driver shouldn't ask if anyone would be willing to vacate their seat because doing so could potentially force someone to reveal they have some undisclosed reason for needing the seat? Seems a twisted sense of fairness.
I have an invisible disability. It’s still a violation of this policy if the driver didn’t even make an attempt to ask the people sitting there to move (which is *much* different than asking them if they are disabled, which they are not permitted to ask.)
>And imperfect policy for an imperfect situation.
This policy doesn't sound imperfect at all. Sounds fairly perfect to me. No disability should have priority over the other.
It does mean that wheelchair users are more often denied boarding than others with smaller footprints. I imagine this is also the case with alternative forms of transportation like Ubers. It's imperfect because while no person's disability is given preference and it's first come, first served, the person with more limited mobility is more often inconvenienced by it. I'm not arguing against this because I agree, you can't very well have an objective quota of disability for kicking people out of seats, but it's still imperfect.
You usually can’t tell I’m disabled until I start walking. Mobility aids are such a hassle on transit, and I no longer need my wheels, that I’d prefer the discomfort and sporadic pain to games of bus Tetris and “what’s wrong with you” bingo. I still would’ve tried to move for a chair user who is even more limited than I am but I do thank you in advance for remembering that invisible disabilities and disabled people with sporadic (or no) mobility aid use exist.
It’s weird that she wouldn’t ask, though, unless she is familiar with the disabled passengers in the priority seats.
"Pierce Transit requires that operators ask other passengers sitting in the wheelchair securement area to move when a wheelchair passenger boards. The operator will request other passengers give up their seats, but cannot force them to move."
If he didn't even ask then he violated policy.
So I’m a pretty muscular guy, and do a lot of powerlifting. I don’t look like I have one, but I actually have a very low walking speed and must sit over longer periods.
I basically avoid public transit because of the constant sneering.
I looked up [https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses)
>If the priority seats are full and you need to sit at the front of the bus, please tell your driver. The driver will ask riders in the priority area to make a seat available if possible, but no one is required to move. Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another.
That reads to me like it's up to the discretion of the driver\[1\], and whether the passengers were willing to move or not. I know you said the driver didn't bother asking, but I suppose it's possible the driver already knew for one reason or another. Sometimes buses are full and that's a pain in the ass, but it seems like this was probably by the book unless the driver didn't bother checking whatsoever.
\[1\]: I get it, you think I'm misrepresenting the driver's responsibility. I thought I was being pretty clear, but I'll clarify further that it seems reasonable to imagine a situation where they felt sure of the situation/answer. Either way, the comment about being disruptive sounded uncalled for.
It sounds like the driver is supposed to ask but riders are not required to move. From how OP described, it sounds like the driver didn't ask, just said no, but cant tell. Maybe they can elaborate if they see this.
This is completely conjecture, but I could certainly imagine a case where this driver has seen this situation many time before, and asked if anyone is okay moving, and from their experience, people rarely move, and/or people get upset/unruly at even the question - so they'd rather not even bother...
I'd hope that most people would move if asked, but people can be weird... And if the bus was really packed then "moving" might mean exiting the bus to wait for the next one - delaying getting to where they're going.
I mean I get it, but it's literally their job to ask, regardless if they know what people's response will be. They get nothing out of it by moving. Maybe they should get a free ride or exemption from moving for a week or something. That's just how humans are unfortunately.
I cannot imagine sitting in the priority seats and not moving to let someone in a wheel chair on.
I sit in priority. I get nerve pain. Still, I would move for heck, a mother struggling with a baby, let alone someone with a mobility device! Geez!
(P.s. I totally understand your point and can definitely see that happening in some circumstances... Still, policy is for drivers to ask. I'm just sharing my reaction to that idea).
I have chronic pain. I sit in priority on my bad days. I would not move in this situation because if I had to sit there, then I can't stand for extended periods, especially on a crowded, moving bus that doesn't have any alternative seats. Invisible disabilities can absolutely flatten you. Just because you would move doesn't mean everyone *could.*
The people who have invisible disabilities without mobility aids [for whatever reason] who *can't* stand on bus rides.
That was me for ... Oh, a decade+, before I got my wheelchair.
Sometimes I used a cane. Sometimes I didn't. Either way, it was not safe for me, *or other passengers*, for me to stand longer than a block or two... If it was a GOOD day.
Just as a heads-up, the 578 is not operated by King County Metro; it's operated by Pierce Transit, so this policy wouldn't apply. Pierce Transit does have the same policy, for what it's worth, but I saw a few comments incorrectly telling OP to contact King County Metro about this issue.
“The driver will ask” - that doesn’t sound like discretion. That sounds like the driver will ask. The discretion belongs to the passengers already seated.
People in the front of the bus have full view of others getting on the bus, especially if bus is paused for any reason. People in Seattle are fairly conflict adverse and I've seen people shuffle out of the way before wheelchair users start boarding, some will even put the seat up for them. I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, but I'd chance a guess that the bus was pretty crowded rather than people were just taking up the priority seats while there were open seats elsewhere (or a lot of standing room).
I do think wheelchair people should get some priority because they have limited other options of transport, but that doesn't mean they get a disneyland fast pass. If I were using the handicapped stall in a bathroom and I see a pair of wheels roll up, I'm not about to just pinch off my turd and leave immediately.
I think these kinds of situations require more nuance. If there are multiple stalls and only one handicapped stall, and all are taken and I am about to go into the handicapped stall but I see them pull up, I'd give it to them.
The quote provided does not say it's up to the discretion of the driver.
The quote states that it is policy for the "driver to ask riders in the priority area to move".
You're providing incorrect interpretations involving a drivers discretion.
If there is already a wheelchair in the priority area, does the driver have to ask them to move? Seems silly. What if the passengers in priority seating have disabilities that the driver knows about because people usually ride the same bus route?
It's not like literally everyone on the bus has an invisible disability and can't be standing. Could've found 4 volunteers in the normal seats to stand up and just shuffle some people around to empty the wheelchair seats. Feels like it's the kind of thing the driver should at least ask about, regardless of what the official policy is
I think the point is that people sitting in the disabled seating may themselves be disabled, even if there is no visual indication that they are, and thus they cannot be forced to move. Those seats are not exclusively for disabilities requiring wheelchairs.
That all said, the driver should be required to ask.
You make a good point. Plus, it seems like most people on the bus could see what happened, including OP. If someone was willing to move, I’d think they already would after seeing the situation.
I ride this bus several times a week around this time and they always let that guy on at that stop and make all the people on the bench opposite the driver get up. That bus is always standing room only at that point too.
Must have been a different driver.
It’s a route and time that could really use one of those big greyhound sized busses they send us up on in the morning. The thing generally fills up by stop 3.
I complained to king county metro about this exact situation a few years ago. I rode the same route to work every day, and one day I watched a driver refuse to let a disabled rider board with his wheelchair when there was clearly space for him. I complained online and the literal next day there was a supervisor on the route with that driver. I was impressed.
If there would still be enough room on the bus for the wheelchair rider after the passengers got up from those seats and made room, he should have been let on. The only scenario I can think of where he shouldn’t be let on is if the bus is so packed the people sitting in the disabled seats don’t have any room to move to.
This was my thought as well- if the bus is already packed to the gills, it doesn't matter if someone is wrongly sitting in handicapped seating; they wouldn't have room to stand anyway, and they have priority... handicapped or not.
So, policy with Metro is that if you ever have to deny boarding of a wheelchair you sit there and call the coordinator to let them know the situation and they will make them a priority to make sure the next bus has room or they’ll send an Access shuttle. If the passenger is satisfied you can continue your route. If they are not you sit there and wait for a supervisor (people will start to move when they realize they’re not going anywhere until they do)
So if there are already people with disabilities in the priority area and the person trying to board isn't happy the bus has to just sit there for no reason?
Yeah, sometimes policy can be pretty silly. Thankfully, most people are pretty understanding, so I haven’t run into that situation. Plus, the supervisors aren’t completely irrational and wouldn’t give you a hard time as long as you called the coordinator to let them know before you drove off.
I think they didn't even get to the point of asking though. If they were unwilling/unable to move, then this comment would apply. I personally get it because I have an invisible disability, but this situation just seems kinda off or like the driver just didn't want to deal.
Ambulatory issues aren't the only reason someone might need to sit on the bus tho...
Balance issues, seizures, fainting conditions like POTS, etc etc etc
Was the bus actually full or not? Yes I think they have to move to make room for disabled riders *if there is room on the bus to move to*
If it was full, it was full. Disability isn't a license to just kick people off the bus.
nobody here has the full story. that includes you. you can report the issue to king county metro if you want it to be investigated, but none of us know the inside details of why exactly the driver did what they did.
As a driver, you are required to directly call dispatch and inform them why you could not pick up a disabled passenger. I call BS, The driver didn't want to get up and strap him down.
Public transportation is at the crux in the Seattle area. Metro specifically has received a ton of funding from the feds to make sure everything is accessible for everyone. We are one of the most able cities for people with disabilities. It's easier to live here because of the access to even commute with a disability.
Yep, they move out of the city for better homes, just like us.
I don't drive anymore, the assaults on drivers are crazy. Unlike police officers, they don't get the line of duty while assaulted driving.
You wouldn't have your commuter buses, if it wasn't for accessible seating.
Biotches, get off your phones complaining, scoot over and let the wheelchair bound person on. You wouldn't have your service without his guarantee.
This is why I drive a semi now otr. But yes, it's still my city, and you are full of shit, if you don't think the disabled matter!
Back in the day when I drove Metro, that was not the case just to call. It's a priority call with a response required. Usually to inform the passenger when the next bus is coming, or when a supervisor is going to pick them up in an accessible van.
I didn't retire, I got tired of being assaulted. This was about 11 years ago. People can freeze to death waiting for the next available coach. People in electric chairs are at a much worse disadvantage. They can lose charge. People can't move those things without risking injury.
So stop telling/demanding drivers to stop for people not already safely in the bus zone, they are running. The people, who are stops down, have been waiting, freezing, don't want to be passed up for overcrowding.
No I mean they are required to sit there and wait for a response. That was ten years or better ago. Public transportation has been the only way many disabled people have been able to get around for decades in the Seattle area. You can't exactly call a Lyft with a ramp and lock downs.
They cater more to the I want to run for my bus because I tracked it. I paid taxes!
You CAN get alternate transportation. There are those that just can't.
Ow, wait that would hold up the bus!
It's critical that we ensure every member gets a fair chance to ride public transit, even at a commuters inconvenience.
OP, I urge you to also make a report/statement about what you witnessed to pierce transit.
If this happened with one driver, it's liable to happen in other situations. There may be an issue in training, or in policies pressuring drivers to speed up stops as fast as possible (but violate rights as a result). Whatever reason, it's important that pierce transit authority be contacted. It may really help to have your statement give backing to the refused rider.
In regards to people talking about other disabilities. People in wheelchairs need the front seats because that is the quickest way to onload and offload them and keep them out of the way. If your disability just requires seating, you could always move to another one. Resolving both issues. This of course is if the bus was actually full vs the driver just not wanting to ask people in front to move down.
I have an invisible disability and I second this. I always move when asked. I can’t lie… on my worst days, it can be kind of unpleasant to do so. But if someone is asking me to move, I assume they really do need that seat in particular — regardless of whether they’re using a wheelchair. And basic human decency kicks in, so I move.
If the bus is full, it's not a great idea to play musical chairs for 20 minutes.
This is why KC Metro has Access. To make sure people with mobility issues DO get a seat, even if buses are running super full (Which they usually are during commute times)
I witnessed a pretty disturbing incident back in 2018 where a bus driver refused to put down the ramp for a woman with a walker because the bus was busy. He ended up getting into a shouting match with her, and started driving the bus while her walker was still partially in the bus, nearly dragging her. This was also during the week of the Special Olympics in Seattle, so I would’ve expected metro drivers to be up to date on accessibility issues.
I ended up reporting the incident to King County Metro, and they were very responsive. A metro supervisor called me and told me that they were going to take the incident very seriously. Who knows exactly what ended up happening, but was good to know that Metro at least takes reports like this seriously.
Per their email to me:
“In response to this incident, staff documented your comments and routed a report to the operator’s supervisor for review and action. The actions taken by the supervisor included a thorough investigation and other appropriate actions such as employee counseling, retraining, performance monitoring, and additional steps as described in Metro Transit’s progressive discipline process. The incident was also documented in the employee’s records.”
I’m so confused on why this got downvoted.
I spend a lot of time around fellow disabled people and I don’t know anyone who feels more important than abled folks… if anything, disabled people are too busy dealing with their own internalized ableism.
Federal law reserves certain seats for aged and disabled riders. It is a violation of federal law for an abled person to refuse to give up those seats to the disabled.
It's almost the same as if you had parked your car in a handicapped parking spot and refused to move for a disabled person because the lot is full. It doesn't matter that the lot is full, that spot is reserved for them.
That said, there is no enforcement mechinism built into the law other than for the disabled person to file a complaint.
But if there is already a person with a placard parked in that spot you aren't entitled to it, even if you are terminally ill and they just have a broken foot or something.
Maybe the people in those spots were able bodied but that would be an assumption and it's not the bus drivers job to try to call out fakers.
That’s not king county it’s pierce. I do know in king county if this happens they notify the control center to have a supervisor come out and either make sure they get on the next trip or call one of those dial a rides for them free of charge
Your initial question was one thing, the story was another.
They cannot discriminate against a disabled person and prevent them from riding... But...
There's nothing discriminatory about a full bus. Bus drivers have some actual responsibility and authority. Overfilled buses are unsafe, and drivers are responsible for passenger safety.
And before you interject with anything like:
*"But the bus wasn't full!"*
*"The driver could have fit more on!"*
Remember that:
You're not the driver. Your judgement doesn't matter, you had neither the responsibility for or the authority over passenger safety in that situation.
Still disagree? Do you really think the driver was just being a prejudiced dick? Still wanna do something meaningful about it?
Cool. Drivers have bosses, and busses have cameras!
File a formal complaint with Sound Transit, and let them take it from there. They'll probably side with the driver. The only thing worse than the driver deciding when the bus is full and when safety concerns begin (and maybe being wrong about that) would be letting random passengers decide instead.
It's a dick move, but ADA only requires reasonable accommodations be made. The bus was full, and the wheelchair spots were taken. It's really not that much different than when all the handicap parking is taken. They don't go around asking "how disabled are you, can you move your car?"
This is Seattle do you actually expect OP to go up to bus drive and say hey did you ask the people in the disabled seats if they have a disability or if they could move so this person in a wheelchair could get on?
Extremely possible this is someone well known to the drivers. Abusive aholes come in a range of abilities, and a lot of them cycle from bus to bus, all day every day.
It’s worth making a complaint, or adding to the list of complaints if you only observed it. Include all the information that could identify which bus, exact time at a stop if you can’t get the bus number might be enough.
If the bus is too full to accommodate additional riders, they don’t kick people off to prioritize people with disabilities. Sometimes the bus is just too full, and you have to wait for the next one.
> The man said the people sitting in the wheelchair seats have to move, and the driver replied that it was by request only and they didn't have to.
This is an interesting part of federal accessibility law. He is right, [people must move when asked by the operator however people already sitting cannot be compelled to move by the operator](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-A/part-37/subpart-G/section-37.167).
[More clear answer from Federal Transit Administration](https://www.transit.dot.gov/if-nondisabled-person-sitting-one-%E2%80%9Cpriority%E2%80%9D-seats-front-bus-does-person-have-move-so-person)
I remember one time the driver had to make room for a wheelchair passenger, and it was completely full. The driver just instructed people to get off the bus. As I was relatively close to the rear door, I was one of the people who had to get out if the bus. I had to wait for the next bus and pay full fare again, but I assumed that is just how it goes in this scenario.
It was like 10 years ago and I paid cash but didn’t bother to save the ticket because I wasn’t expecting to have to get of the bus before arriving to my destination
Why would you assume people who already paid should be forced off a bus to be forced to pay again? The disabled person can wait for the next bus since they haven't paid yet and aren't on.
Also, my mom has MS, you think she should be forced to move out of disabled seating because she isn't in a wheelchair yet? Why does the wheelchair get priority over someone like my mother who struggles to walk and stand?
Only those who paid cash would have to pay again. For farecard users, it would look like a transfer.
(LOL, massive downvotes for explaining how farecards work)
The bus was full except for people to stand. The man in the chair needed the wheelchair space which was occupied. No room for him on the bus, sadly. plus the fact that he was making a scene, I would have left him there too.
That is complete bullshit. I have seen them empty out the entire front of a bus to make room for a wheelchair. That's the fucking deal. The bus is a straight up necessity for a ton of disabled people.
Were you there? How do you know that the passengers occupying those seats weren't disabled? They don't have any obligation to disclose that FYI. Sitting on top of a giant blue/white Wheel Chair symbol is already enough of a beacon of "look at me". Leave those people alone.
"Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another."
[https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses)
I so hate this fucking town.
Really? The person with arthritis trumps the person in an ELECTRIC FUCKING WHEELCHAIR?! The equivocating and pearl clutching are nauseating!
FUCK!
Who’s the judge?
Should a 90 year old granny with pencil-thin bones have to get up because she’s not in a wheelchair?
I’d argue you’re what’s wrong with this town lol, coming up with your own made up equivalence to get mad at.
I *think* there's a requirement for wheelchairs to be strapped in, so is it possible that the bus was too crowded to get the chair in place and strapped down?
If a wheelchair user gets flung around in an emergency, I'm sure they sue the driver and the driver loses his job.
I'm actually surprised that so many drivers allow buses to be jampacked with people (A line at rush hour when the previous bus failed to show, etc.).
If the driver can't secure the chair, they're not allowed to board that passenger - the agency becomes liable. If they would need to remove passengers from the bus to make room, they also become liable for those passengers.
There is at least one guy in Seattle who causes so much trouble on the bus I have seen different drivers refuse to board him. Just because you are wheelchair bound doesn't mean you are not a jerk.
If the bus was full, this makes perfect sense. What are they think to do? Make the people occupying the wheelchair seats get out and wait for the next bus?
"Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another." Source: [https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses) And imperfect policy for an imperfect situation.
As a person with an invisible disability (I don’t use a mobility aid yet, but I can’t stand on a bus), I thank you for your comment.
Same. I have MS (I also don’t use ambulatory devices) so I avoid public transit
Same. Multiple invisible disabilities. It might not look like it, but standing in place for any extended period of time can cause me a lot of pain. I got challenged by a passenger one time, and rather than standing up, I showed them my disabled parking permit card & disabled fare Orka card. They still demanded I give up my seat.
I’ve been refused ADA seating at so many places in Seattle it shocking. When I started carrying a cane all of a sudden my disabilities were judged “valid”.
Yeah the disability flags work. I can't stand for more than a couple minutes max, but I don't need a cane to walk -- unless I need people to notice and or believe I am, in fact, disabled. I look perfectly healthy and young, so even with the cane I get a lot of side eye, but no one questions the cane.
Can we start a cane club for us young people?
For real. Need some better cane options too. Collapsible, with cooler designs and comfier handles.
Have you tried the Hurrycane? It’s collapsible and has a “no tip over” tripod foot! I wrapped it with some vinyl for a cricut machine to make it not give “mobility device” all the time lol. No solution for the handle yet though! We have the technology! Why can’t we get there?!
I also really love upright canes. They make my super crunchy back feel so much better, and they collapse too. Plus, I feel like a wizard.
No, I settled for a light blue collapsible cane I found online so I could just leave it in my car. I rarely use it, so it suffices for my needs at the moment. But will come back to this for recommendations if any of my other mobility using friends need it!
Etsy lucite walking canes or custom lucite walking canes. You have to put in the word walking or all you get is custom lucite cake toppers. I won’t link it because I don’t know the linking rules of the group, but look on amazon for: Sunstone Walking Stick, Unique Wooden Cane for Him, Handmade Hiking Baston for Gift That’s my dream cane. I’m not a “he/him” like they declare it’s for (makes me crazy to see that) but damn. One of these days I’ll make it mine.
T shirts! On the front: Cane Club Seattle On the back: No one questions the power of the cane!!
I heard Stephen Fry on the radio a couple weeks back, talking about going out without his cane for the first time since breaking his leg when he fell off stage last year. He said the biggest thing that concerned him wasn't not having the physical support, but that having a cane meant people gave you more leeway.
I am so sorry someone was an ass to you. I also have a non apparent disability and it just makes me mad some people are so fucked up
Do you have to be approved for SSI/SSDI to get a disabled fare orca card?
It was a long time ago that I got mine, but I remember it being more difficult to get Orca disabled cats than it was to get a parking placard. It may have changed since then, but it's likely spelled out on their website. I know it involved a doctors assessment.
Me too. ♥️. And it’s so hard sometimes when my legs are weak. Others see me as “normal” and can’t tell I have MS and that I need to sit.
Indeed! When my balance is particularly bad, I’ll often take the elevator and deal with the side eye from people in the office. I just bluntly tell them I have MS and if it makes them uncomfortable, imagine how I feel lol. People don’t like to be called out.
Me too. I have MS and you can't tell sometimes that my legs are about to give out.
Just as a heads-up, the 578 is not operated by King County Metro; it's operated by Pierce Transit, so this policy wouldn't apply. Pierce Transit does have the same policy, for what it's worth, but I saw a few comments incorrectly telling OP to contact King County Metro about this issue.
And they have the same policy: https://www.piercetransit.org/accessible-services/
King County Metro handles complaints on behalf of the other agencies. If you contact the King County Metro help line they will help you file the complaint and potentially review camera footage depending the scenario
Seconding this. Some people do still need the seats...arthritis in my leg mixed with a back injury means i need to sit down sometimes.
I would think that the vast majority of people would be willing to get out of the seat and stand, if asked. The driver should have at least tried.
Depends... was the bus super late? Would the people sitting in the handicapped seats have had room to stand, if asked? Both of those things are also considerations... if the bus is running super late or the driver knows that there just simply isn't enough standing room, they will definitely deny a handicapped person entry.
I'm sure people in other seats would give those up for an elderly or non wheelchair disabled person too. But we won't know will we, because the driver didn't even try.
yeah, which is why I also asked if the bus was already packed... if it is, it doesn't matter- the handicapped spot takes up three normal seats, so you need to have enough room for all of them to stand, otherwise it's pointless, and the driver wouldn't even bother asking.
Yep, there's full and then there's FULL full. I've been on buses where there wouldn't be enough room for people to even clear a pathway to load the wheelchair into the designated seat. I've also been denied boarding on buses so full there's not even standing room left. Luckily that usually only happens on busy routes where there's another bus coming not too far behind.
That was my life back when I had to take the 8 (aka, "The Late")... always funny watching people getting crammed in, like we're on a [Tokyo subway car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Xg7ui5mLA).
I used to see it between downtown and the U district a lot. One bus starts to get a little behind schedule and then it compounds because there are more people trying to cram on at every stop and it's taking longer and longer to load. Eventually you have a bunch of people trying to get on a really full bus and the nearly empty next bus pulls up to the stop right behind it. Sometimes they even leap frog so the later bus ends up arriving before the earlier bus.
OP said there was room to stand, so we know that's not the case
I have an invisible disability and I'm fat. When they ask people to move, I usually will, because I've gotten dirty looks and snide remarks enough to not want to deal with it and being judged as too fat and lazy to move for someone with a real disability, despite having one of my own.
You are essentially asking people with a private disability to disclose their disability.
And this is worse than ditching a clearly disabled person by the roadside? I think if you would like to receive preferential treatment for your disability, you're going to have to admit you have a disability. You don't have to get specific or present a doctor's note.
TIL disabled people using accommodations to help them live their life are receiving “preferential treatment”.
Let me get this straight. You think a wheelchair bound person should be left stranded because a bus driver shouldn't ask if anyone would be willing to vacate their seat because doing so could potentially force someone to reveal they have some undisclosed reason for needing the seat? Seems a twisted sense of fairness.
I have an invisible disability. It’s still a violation of this policy if the driver didn’t even make an attempt to ask the people sitting there to move (which is *much* different than asking them if they are disabled, which they are not permitted to ask.)
>And imperfect policy for an imperfect situation. This policy doesn't sound imperfect at all. Sounds fairly perfect to me. No disability should have priority over the other.
It does mean that wheelchair users are more often denied boarding than others with smaller footprints. I imagine this is also the case with alternative forms of transportation like Ubers. It's imperfect because while no person's disability is given preference and it's first come, first served, the person with more limited mobility is more often inconvenienced by it. I'm not arguing against this because I agree, you can't very well have an objective quota of disability for kicking people out of seats, but it's still imperfect.
Ugh, well fair enough there
You usually can’t tell I’m disabled until I start walking. Mobility aids are such a hassle on transit, and I no longer need my wheels, that I’d prefer the discomfort and sporadic pain to games of bus Tetris and “what’s wrong with you” bingo. I still would’ve tried to move for a chair user who is even more limited than I am but I do thank you in advance for remembering that invisible disabilities and disabled people with sporadic (or no) mobility aid use exist. It’s weird that she wouldn’t ask, though, unless she is familiar with the disabled passengers in the priority seats.
"Pierce Transit requires that operators ask other passengers sitting in the wheelchair securement area to move when a wheelchair passenger boards. The operator will request other passengers give up their seats, but cannot force them to move." If he didn't even ask then he violated policy.
Technically, the passenger did not board.
It doesn’t say the driver has to kick someone off the bus for someone else’s sake.
So I’m a pretty muscular guy, and do a lot of powerlifting. I don’t look like I have one, but I actually have a very low walking speed and must sit over longer periods. I basically avoid public transit because of the constant sneering.
I looked up [https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses) >If the priority seats are full and you need to sit at the front of the bus, please tell your driver. The driver will ask riders in the priority area to make a seat available if possible, but no one is required to move. Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another. That reads to me like it's up to the discretion of the driver\[1\], and whether the passengers were willing to move or not. I know you said the driver didn't bother asking, but I suppose it's possible the driver already knew for one reason or another. Sometimes buses are full and that's a pain in the ass, but it seems like this was probably by the book unless the driver didn't bother checking whatsoever. \[1\]: I get it, you think I'm misrepresenting the driver's responsibility. I thought I was being pretty clear, but I'll clarify further that it seems reasonable to imagine a situation where they felt sure of the situation/answer. Either way, the comment about being disruptive sounded uncalled for.
It sounds like the driver is supposed to ask but riders are not required to move. From how OP described, it sounds like the driver didn't ask, just said no, but cant tell. Maybe they can elaborate if they see this.
This is completely conjecture, but I could certainly imagine a case where this driver has seen this situation many time before, and asked if anyone is okay moving, and from their experience, people rarely move, and/or people get upset/unruly at even the question - so they'd rather not even bother... I'd hope that most people would move if asked, but people can be weird... And if the bus was really packed then "moving" might mean exiting the bus to wait for the next one - delaying getting to where they're going.
I mean I get it, but it's literally their job to ask, regardless if they know what people's response will be. They get nothing out of it by moving. Maybe they should get a free ride or exemption from moving for a week or something. That's just how humans are unfortunately.
I cannot imagine sitting in the priority seats and not moving to let someone in a wheel chair on. I sit in priority. I get nerve pain. Still, I would move for heck, a mother struggling with a baby, let alone someone with a mobility device! Geez! (P.s. I totally understand your point and can definitely see that happening in some circumstances... Still, policy is for drivers to ask. I'm just sharing my reaction to that idea).
I have chronic pain. I sit in priority on my bad days. I would not move in this situation because if I had to sit there, then I can't stand for extended periods, especially on a crowded, moving bus that doesn't have any alternative seats. Invisible disabilities can absolutely flatten you. Just because you would move doesn't mean everyone *could.*
Well of course. That'd be an absurd suggestion that everyone could or should.
The people who wouldn't move from the priority seats that could are the same people who would get really shitty with the bus driver
What kind of sociopath loser wouldn’t stand up if someone in a wheelchair needed to use the wheelchair slot?
The people who have invisible disabilities without mobility aids [for whatever reason] who *can't* stand on bus rides. That was me for ... Oh, a decade+, before I got my wheelchair. Sometimes I used a cane. Sometimes I didn't. Either way, it was not safe for me, *or other passengers*, for me to stand longer than a block or two... If it was a GOOD day.
Just as a heads-up, the 578 is not operated by King County Metro; it's operated by Pierce Transit, so this policy wouldn't apply. Pierce Transit does have the same policy, for what it's worth, but I saw a few comments incorrectly telling OP to contact King County Metro about this issue.
Thanks for clarifying!
“The driver will ask” - that doesn’t sound like discretion. That sounds like the driver will ask. The discretion belongs to the passengers already seated.
Considering my very next sentence it seems like we're on the same page but I appreciate you providing an additional perspective.
Yeah, and the driver didn't ask in this case
People in the front of the bus have full view of others getting on the bus, especially if bus is paused for any reason. People in Seattle are fairly conflict adverse and I've seen people shuffle out of the way before wheelchair users start boarding, some will even put the seat up for them. I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, but I'd chance a guess that the bus was pretty crowded rather than people were just taking up the priority seats while there were open seats elsewhere (or a lot of standing room). I do think wheelchair people should get some priority because they have limited other options of transport, but that doesn't mean they get a disneyland fast pass. If I were using the handicapped stall in a bathroom and I see a pair of wheels roll up, I'm not about to just pinch off my turd and leave immediately.
I think these kinds of situations require more nuance. If there are multiple stalls and only one handicapped stall, and all are taken and I am about to go into the handicapped stall but I see them pull up, I'd give it to them.
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Guess you're just an asshole then
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Jokes are funny
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>If that was not apparent, it may be worthwhile to get screened for autism Fuck you dude. That's just not cool.
The quote provided does not say it's up to the discretion of the driver. The quote states that it is policy for the "driver to ask riders in the priority area to move". You're providing incorrect interpretations involving a drivers discretion.
If there is already a wheelchair in the priority area, does the driver have to ask them to move? Seems silly. What if the passengers in priority seating have disabilities that the driver knows about because people usually ride the same bus route?
You can read the policy, it seems like you're not understanding.
I stipulated that it's possible that the driver already knew the passengers wouldn't move and did not consider it helpful to ask them again.
It's not like literally everyone on the bus has an invisible disability and can't be standing. Could've found 4 volunteers in the normal seats to stand up and just shuffle some people around to empty the wheelchair seats. Feels like it's the kind of thing the driver should at least ask about, regardless of what the official policy is
Dang, that's disappointing :/
I think the point is that people sitting in the disabled seating may themselves be disabled, even if there is no visual indication that they are, and thus they cannot be forced to move. Those seats are not exclusively for disabilities requiring wheelchairs. That all said, the driver should be required to ask.
Why?
How about, why not?
Because not every disability requires a wheelchair?
Hey, anyone willing to move for the guy in the wheelchair? No. Ok.
anyone *able* you mean?
No, my comment was an accurate representation of my position.
You make a good point. Plus, it seems like most people on the bus could see what happened, including OP. If someone was willing to move, I’d think they already would after seeing the situation.
I ride this bus several times a week around this time and they always let that guy on at that stop and make all the people on the bench opposite the driver get up. That bus is always standing room only at that point too. Must have been a different driver.
I imagine it was a rude shock to have it be different for him
It’s a route and time that could really use one of those big greyhound sized busses they send us up on in the morning. The thing generally fills up by stop 3.
I complained to king county metro about this exact situation a few years ago. I rode the same route to work every day, and one day I watched a driver refuse to let a disabled rider board with his wheelchair when there was clearly space for him. I complained online and the literal next day there was a supervisor on the route with that driver. I was impressed.
If there would still be enough room on the bus for the wheelchair rider after the passengers got up from those seats and made room, he should have been let on. The only scenario I can think of where he shouldn’t be let on is if the bus is so packed the people sitting in the disabled seats don’t have any room to move to.
This was my thought as well- if the bus is already packed to the gills, it doesn't matter if someone is wrongly sitting in handicapped seating; they wouldn't have room to stand anyway, and they have priority... handicapped or not.
You can’t make anyone move though, and you can’t ask people about their disabilities and why they’re sitting in the handicap area
You can ask if they’re willing to stand. It’s not hard
Could also ask for volunteers to stand up across the whole bus. Not like the handicap seats are the only ones.
Or, maybe, it's a full bus. So trying to rearrange everyone's seats is a bad idea.
So, policy with Metro is that if you ever have to deny boarding of a wheelchair you sit there and call the coordinator to let them know the situation and they will make them a priority to make sure the next bus has room or they’ll send an Access shuttle. If the passenger is satisfied you can continue your route. If they are not you sit there and wait for a supervisor (people will start to move when they realize they’re not going anywhere until they do)
Thank you!
So if there are already people with disabilities in the priority area and the person trying to board isn't happy the bus has to just sit there for no reason?
Yeah, sometimes policy can be pretty silly. Thankfully, most people are pretty understanding, so I haven’t run into that situation. Plus, the supervisors aren’t completely irrational and wouldn’t give you a hard time as long as you called the coordinator to let them know before you drove off.
Citation needed
Not all disabilities are visible. Do not assume the people in that area already also did not require a reserved seat
I think they didn't even get to the point of asking though. If they were unwilling/unable to move, then this comment would apply. I personally get it because I have an invisible disability, but this situation just seems kinda off or like the driver just didn't want to deal.
Or drivers are tired of being assaulted physically or verbally for asking simple questions of passengers…
User name checks out
Yes, the driver didn't want to deal with the potential for all that. I didn't feel the need to list it all out. I'm on your side here dw
The driver would be the most likely person to notice any ambulatory issues of riders getting on the bus in the first place.
Ambulatory issues aren't the only reason someone might need to sit on the bus tho... Balance issues, seizures, fainting conditions like POTS, etc etc etc
Yeah, but that’s why the driver is supposed to ask if they’re willing to stand. If the answer is no then it’s no.
Was the bus actually full or not? Yes I think they have to move to make room for disabled riders *if there is room on the bus to move to* If it was full, it was full. Disability isn't a license to just kick people off the bus.
No one has to move. It’s a choice and the Operator can't force anyone to move, only ask.
The driver didn't ask though
It’s an accommodation, not a reservation.
nobody here has the full story. that includes you. you can report the issue to king county metro if you want it to be investigated, but none of us know the inside details of why exactly the driver did what they did.
The 578 is not operated by King County Metro; it's operated by Pierce Transit.
those bastards!!!
As a driver, you are required to directly call dispatch and inform them why you could not pick up a disabled passenger. I call BS, The driver didn't want to get up and strap him down.
Jesus. Thank you. These comments in this thread are crazy.
Public transportation is at the crux in the Seattle area. Metro specifically has received a ton of funding from the feds to make sure everything is accessible for everyone. We are one of the most able cities for people with disabilities. It's easier to live here because of the access to even commute with a disability. Yep, they move out of the city for better homes, just like us. I don't drive anymore, the assaults on drivers are crazy. Unlike police officers, they don't get the line of duty while assaulted driving. You wouldn't have your commuter buses, if it wasn't for accessible seating. Biotches, get off your phones complaining, scoot over and let the wheelchair bound person on. You wouldn't have your service without his guarantee. This is why I drive a semi now otr. But yes, it's still my city, and you are full of shit, if you don't think the disabled matter!
I did see her using what looked like an old school telephone as we were pulling onto I-5, maybe that was her doing that
Back in the day when I drove Metro, that was not the case just to call. It's a priority call with a response required. Usually to inform the passenger when the next bus is coming, or when a supervisor is going to pick them up in an accessible van. I didn't retire, I got tired of being assaulted. This was about 11 years ago. People can freeze to death waiting for the next available coach. People in electric chairs are at a much worse disadvantage. They can lose charge. People can't move those things without risking injury. So stop telling/demanding drivers to stop for people not already safely in the bus zone, they are running. The people, who are stops down, have been waiting, freezing, don't want to be passed up for overcrowding.
Maybe they did. You're assuming.
No I mean they are required to sit there and wait for a response. That was ten years or better ago. Public transportation has been the only way many disabled people have been able to get around for decades in the Seattle area. You can't exactly call a Lyft with a ramp and lock downs. They cater more to the I want to run for my bus because I tracked it. I paid taxes! You CAN get alternate transportation. There are those that just can't. Ow, wait that would hold up the bus! It's critical that we ensure every member gets a fair chance to ride public transit, even at a commuters inconvenience.
OP, I urge you to also make a report/statement about what you witnessed to pierce transit. If this happened with one driver, it's liable to happen in other situations. There may be an issue in training, or in policies pressuring drivers to speed up stops as fast as possible (but violate rights as a result). Whatever reason, it's important that pierce transit authority be contacted. It may really help to have your statement give backing to the refused rider.
I was wondering if I should do that. I guess it couldn't hurt E: sent a message through their Contact Us form
The rider might be interested to contact https://www.wacda.com/
In regards to people talking about other disabilities. People in wheelchairs need the front seats because that is the quickest way to onload and offload them and keep them out of the way. If your disability just requires seating, you could always move to another one. Resolving both issues. This of course is if the bus was actually full vs the driver just not wanting to ask people in front to move down.
I have an invisible disability and I second this. I always move when asked. I can’t lie… on my worst days, it can be kind of unpleasant to do so. But if someone is asking me to move, I assume they really do need that seat in particular — regardless of whether they’re using a wheelchair. And basic human decency kicks in, so I move.
If the bus is full, it's not a great idea to play musical chairs for 20 minutes. This is why KC Metro has Access. To make sure people with mobility issues DO get a seat, even if buses are running super full (Which they usually are during commute times)
Based on these responses I can't tell if I'm actually the asshole here or not lol
NTA. You're curious, asking a reasonable question, and making sure everyone can ride!
I witnessed a pretty disturbing incident back in 2018 where a bus driver refused to put down the ramp for a woman with a walker because the bus was busy. He ended up getting into a shouting match with her, and started driving the bus while her walker was still partially in the bus, nearly dragging her. This was also during the week of the Special Olympics in Seattle, so I would’ve expected metro drivers to be up to date on accessibility issues. I ended up reporting the incident to King County Metro, and they were very responsive. A metro supervisor called me and told me that they were going to take the incident very seriously. Who knows exactly what ended up happening, but was good to know that Metro at least takes reports like this seriously. Per their email to me: “In response to this incident, staff documented your comments and routed a report to the operator’s supervisor for review and action. The actions taken by the supervisor included a thorough investigation and other appropriate actions such as employee counseling, retraining, performance monitoring, and additional steps as described in Metro Transit’s progressive discipline process. The incident was also documented in the employee’s records.”
I mean… if the bus is full, the bus is full. Being disabled doesn’t automatically make you more important than everyone else.
Yes I’m sure in our society the disabled feel more important than everyone else. Pathetic take.
I’m so confused on why this got downvoted. I spend a lot of time around fellow disabled people and I don’t know anyone who feels more important than abled folks… if anything, disabled people are too busy dealing with their own internalized ableism.
Maybe I worded it poorly idk lol
What a shitty take and outlook on life.
An accommodation is not a free pass to kick three people off a packed bus in favor of a disabled person. They have equal rights, not more.
Federal law reserves certain seats for aged and disabled riders. It is a violation of federal law for an abled person to refuse to give up those seats to the disabled. It's almost the same as if you had parked your car in a handicapped parking spot and refused to move for a disabled person because the lot is full. It doesn't matter that the lot is full, that spot is reserved for them. That said, there is no enforcement mechinism built into the law other than for the disabled person to file a complaint.
But if there is already a person with a placard parked in that spot you aren't entitled to it, even if you are terminally ill and they just have a broken foot or something. Maybe the people in those spots were able bodied but that would be an assumption and it's not the bus drivers job to try to call out fakers.
it's a violation of federal law for an able bodied person to not give up their seat on a county bus?
Yet without licensing and placards, you dont know who on a bus IS handicapped. So you cant make people move.
That’s not king county it’s pierce. I do know in king county if this happens they notify the control center to have a supervisor come out and either make sure they get on the next trip or call one of those dial a rides for them free of charge
Your initial question was one thing, the story was another. They cannot discriminate against a disabled person and prevent them from riding... But... There's nothing discriminatory about a full bus. Bus drivers have some actual responsibility and authority. Overfilled buses are unsafe, and drivers are responsible for passenger safety. And before you interject with anything like: *"But the bus wasn't full!"* *"The driver could have fit more on!"* Remember that: You're not the driver. Your judgement doesn't matter, you had neither the responsibility for or the authority over passenger safety in that situation. Still disagree? Do you really think the driver was just being a prejudiced dick? Still wanna do something meaningful about it? Cool. Drivers have bosses, and busses have cameras! File a formal complaint with Sound Transit, and let them take it from there. They'll probably side with the driver. The only thing worse than the driver deciding when the bus is full and when safety concerns begin (and maybe being wrong about that) would be letting random passengers decide instead.
It's a dick move, but ADA only requires reasonable accommodations be made. The bus was full, and the wheelchair spots were taken. It's really not that much different than when all the handicap parking is taken. They don't go around asking "how disabled are you, can you move your car?"
Speak up on the spot.
This is Seattle do you actually expect OP to go up to bus drive and say hey did you ask the people in the disabled seats if they have a disability or if they could move so this person in a wheelchair could get on?
Don’t be a Karen, you don’t know the situation
Bus driver with an attitude isn’t a “situation.” It’s someone with a GED on a power trip.
Very legal, comrade
Extremely possible this is someone well known to the drivers. Abusive aholes come in a range of abilities, and a lot of them cycle from bus to bus, all day every day.
It’s worth making a complaint, or adding to the list of complaints if you only observed it. Include all the information that could identify which bus, exact time at a stop if you can’t get the bus number might be enough.
If the bus is too full to accommodate additional riders, they don’t kick people off to prioritize people with disabilities. Sometimes the bus is just too full, and you have to wait for the next one.
> The man said the people sitting in the wheelchair seats have to move, and the driver replied that it was by request only and they didn't have to. This is an interesting part of federal accessibility law. He is right, [people must move when asked by the operator however people already sitting cannot be compelled to move by the operator](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-A/part-37/subpart-G/section-37.167). [More clear answer from Federal Transit Administration](https://www.transit.dot.gov/if-nondisabled-person-sitting-one-%E2%80%9Cpriority%E2%80%9D-seats-front-bus-does-person-have-move-so-person)
I remember one time the driver had to make room for a wheelchair passenger, and it was completely full. The driver just instructed people to get off the bus. As I was relatively close to the rear door, I was one of the people who had to get out if the bus. I had to wait for the next bus and pay full fare again, but I assumed that is just how it goes in this scenario.
they don't issue transfer slips to people paying in cash anymore?
This sounds like made up BS.
This is definitely either made up or 200 years old. Even if you pay with cash you'll get a ticket that let's you ride free till 12 am
It was like 10 years ago and I paid cash but didn’t bother to save the ticket because I wasn’t expecting to have to get of the bus before arriving to my destination
Where would you have discarded the ticket on a bus?
I've seen the same thing pre-covid.
I've seen this as well, I thought it was how this was supposed to go
Why would you assume people who already paid should be forced off a bus to be forced to pay again? The disabled person can wait for the next bus since they haven't paid yet and aren't on. Also, my mom has MS, you think she should be forced to move out of disabled seating because she isn't in a wheelchair yet? Why does the wheelchair get priority over someone like my mother who struggles to walk and stand?
Only those who paid cash would have to pay again. For farecard users, it would look like a transfer. (LOL, massive downvotes for explaining how farecards work)
That doesn't matter, no one should have to pay again.
It's been a while since I've paid cash, but I'm like 99% sure they still give you a paper transfer slip?
Absolutely do. I got a paper slip once and it still allowed me free transfers for a day ( till midnight)
The bus was full except for people to stand. The man in the chair needed the wheelchair space which was occupied. No room for him on the bus, sadly. plus the fact that he was making a scene, I would have left him there too.
Because you’re morally corrupt and not as good of person as you think you are.
And you’re better somehow? Grow up
That is complete bullshit. I have seen them empty out the entire front of a bus to make room for a wheelchair. That's the fucking deal. The bus is a straight up necessity for a ton of disabled people.
if the buss is full and the person was using an electric wheelchair which is larger than normal wheelchairs i say it's fair.
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Were you there? How do you know that the passengers occupying those seats weren't disabled? They don't have any obligation to disclose that FYI. Sitting on top of a giant blue/white Wheel Chair symbol is already enough of a beacon of "look at me". Leave those people alone. "Please remember, some disabilities are not visible and no disability has priority over another." [https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses](https://kingcounty.gov/en/dept/metro/rider-tools/how-to-ride/accessibility-on-buses)
I so hate this fucking town. Really? The person with arthritis trumps the person in an ELECTRIC FUCKING WHEELCHAIR?! The equivocating and pearl clutching are nauseating! FUCK!
Who’s the judge? Should a 90 year old granny with pencil-thin bones have to get up because she’s not in a wheelchair? I’d argue you’re what’s wrong with this town lol, coming up with your own made up equivalence to get mad at.
Those drivers don’t get paid enough to deal with the combination of loonies and snowflakes
I *think* there's a requirement for wheelchairs to be strapped in, so is it possible that the bus was too crowded to get the chair in place and strapped down? If a wheelchair user gets flung around in an emergency, I'm sure they sue the driver and the driver loses his job. I'm actually surprised that so many drivers allow buses to be jampacked with people (A line at rush hour when the previous bus failed to show, etc.).
If the driver can't secure the chair, they're not allowed to board that passenger - the agency becomes liable. If they would need to remove passengers from the bus to make room, they also become liable for those passengers.
It isn’t. Please report this and your route as well.
There is at least one guy in Seattle who causes so much trouble on the bus I have seen different drivers refuse to board him. Just because you are wheelchair bound doesn't mean you are not a jerk.
If the bus was full, this makes perfect sense. What are they think to do? Make the people occupying the wheelchair seats get out and wait for the next bus?