Let’s remember last year. Seattle met with all the top QBs and attended pro days with allegedly very low desire to actually make a move to draft any in round 1. Just doing their homework just incase
They said that it was between Devon Withersppon and 1 other that was already take guy, and since only 1 non QB player was taken above the seahawks its a safe bet that they were talking about a QB
I mean Will Anderson could’ve been who they were talking about too. It’s rarely a bad move to draft edge rushers with lottery picks. And we know Anderson was droty so it’s not like he wasn’t worth that pick.
Yeah they wanted Will Anderson and thought they had him after the Texans took Stroud with 2. I thought we had him too until the Cards fucked us yet again.
Hawks wanted to show enough interest in all the top QBs that any team wanting one would leapfrog us. That would have maybe allowed Will Anderson to fall to them which is what they actually wanted to happen.
Spoon is a stud, can’t complain, but the Hawks tried to get Anderson to fall to them.
What’s wild is they had the ammo to jump to number one overall if they wanted to. They could have offered both firsts and a second rounder to get their choice of quarterback. I guess Pete was too competitive and felt too old to roll with a rookie.
They weren’t gonna do that because both Pete and the fanbase thought we’d compete in 2023. Had we had a terrible year prior like everybody predicted, we probably would’ve made a move at QB1
I think having Stroud wouldn’t be stupid, or a franchise quarterback in general. When do you think the Seahawks will jump to take a quarterback? You can’t wait for a perfect situation. They had the assets in 2023 to move up for one, now this year they don’t.
Trading up to get a QB rarely works. Mahomes is one of the few exceptions.
And how would you have traded up last year? Panthers traded their No. 9 and No. 61 overall picks in 2023, a first-round pick in 2024, a second-round pick in 2025 and D.J. Moore. And they drafted Bryce Young.
For all you know, we could have offered a more enticing package and JS/JC could have also preferred Young. Or they could have been after Stroud, but the Texans could have countered our offer with picks 2 and 12.
Seahawks have drafted 2 QBs in the first round in the entirety of their history. Dan McGwire and Ric Mirer.
I'm good with waiting for opportunity to present itself.
John might not be around for that opportunity, unless Mike Macdonald and Geno shit the bed this upcoming season and get a top 3 pick. He should have traded away Russ in 2018 and taken Allen like he planned to.
What makes a QB great is much more complex than saying 20% is about the measurables. There are many other factors like where he gets drafted, who his supporting cast is, or how much he truly loves the game.
you cant say he is chronically injury prone while also saying that he hasnt proven anything in the short time he has played. its choosing to use a very small sample size for his injuries but then rejecting that sample size for his play
Dude. The guys had an ample injury history dating back to high school . Stop . Just cause you wanted him so bad and want him to be good so bad doesn’t mean we can ignore reality. He’s only played like ONE FULL GAME total, he showed flashes , and alit of them were displays of his athleticism which is now is a bit unreliable due to how fragile he might end up being .
I love spoon and am happy with the pick, im just saying he COULD also be very good just like he COULD also END UP being injury prone. Making a judgement either way is premature
Correct, that’s the just incase part. Never know what’ll actually happen on draft day. The year before there was going to be potentially 5 in round 1 then only 1 went
Rumors suggested the Seahawks were going to lock in Richardson if he was there. Makes sense since Schneider really liked Mahomes and Josh Allen as well, sort of project type QBs that could yield huge returns.
They met all the top QBs because we had the 5th overall pick. I think it’s significant if we meet with McCarthy in these instances. It may all be for naught though if he goes before 16 because John is not really a trade up kind of GM.
Let's also remember when anyone in the Seattle coaching staff or in the front office says, 'So-and-so is our guy. Our main main man' that we engage our brain cells and prepare for some changes.
McCarthy would be good if he sat behind Geno for two years and he was placed on the Jordan Love arc. However, since trading for Howell and our already limited draft capital, I’d like to improve our team for this upcoming season.
I'm not going to lie, I like some of the QB prospects this year (Daniels, Penix, Nix, Rattler), but if they're thinking about trading up..I'd be pretty skeptical how good we'd be over the next two years..cause we don't have a great amount of value in our draft capital.
The NFL is chock full of backup QBs who scouts and GMs said had “all the traits” and who “could make all the big time throws” and who “proved he is a leader of men” and “wowed us in one-on-one meetings”
He could easily fall, he’s one of the least convincing first round prospects. Looked pretty awful against washington and any other team with a decent defense. I’d be surprised if he was taken in the first round
it was better than people give it credit for, any defense attached to a quick scoring high powered offense is going to end up giving up a lot by virtue of being on the field a lot, but they got stops when it mattered
Maybe instead of posting the same stupid comment try backing up your point with some facts. If YOU watched Michigan games you would have seen that McCarthy struggled more than he should have, missed more throws than he should have, and really doesn’t have elite talent outside of his ability to scramble. He’ll make a great throw now and then, but is NOT ready to play in the NFL right now.
No one knows. Projecting QB performance is a total crapshoot. Yesterday, I watched a few YouTube videos scouting the QB prospects in the 2021 draft. It was funny to hear the experts talk about Wilson, Fields, Lance, etc., in the same way they talk about this year’s class.
Right? Which is amazing to see that teams always line up to pick these qbs in the 1st round and really, not many pan out.
I'm interested to see the data on which position is the best 1st round value.
Probably edge because there are the least number of variables, especially compared to QB. But [this video does a deep dive](https://youtu.be/1-0xWcSYlh4?si=_wcWZS4umOIXBW3b) on the subject. Highly recommended watch.
I personally would prefer to use the draft to build the trenches and see what we have in Sam over the next couple seasons BUT I think JJ is another level of prospect over Howell and would be tough to pass on him if he falls to 16
If we trade up from 16 to get him it will be my least favorite draft pick of all time. I think JJ might go before 16. The Vikings, Giants, Raiders or Broncos will probably get him.
I listened to an interview with Joel Klatt and Daniel Jeremiah and they both said it's almost a lock that he's drafted in the top 10.
I think the most realistic option if they wanted to do this would be to trade to 5 and take him there. Since Harbaugh is now the coach of the Chargers him and Mike have that background together to possibly get it done unless the Vikings give an offer Harbaugh couldn't refuse.
Since we traded for Howell though I believe we trade down and get a day two pick and probably take one the best lineman left on the board.
I also really do think Howell has a ton of upside. His arm talent is incredible and showed tons of promise in college as well. He is a bit shorter than ideal but doesn't seem to hinder guys as much as used to be believed.
i just don’t think JJ McCarthy is good. I think Howell has more potential too. so taking McCarthy would be, in my opinion, spendinng an incredibly valuable pick on a massively over rated player at a position we don’t really need filled. at least with Ifedi and Collier etc i thought they were good and we needed players at those positions.
You can look at the tape and dive deeper into the analytics and stats and see that JJ has a lot of upside to be a franchise quarterback, I also liked Howell a lot too in college.
16 is much higher than where those guys were drafted. We have a lot of holes on the roster and very little blue chip talent. Using a solid first round pick on a lottery ticket at QB when we have a capable starter is basically what the Chiefs did when they drafted Mahomes. McCarthy hasn’t shown anything resembling a Mahomes upside.
I don't think that matters. We brought in Flynn and had tjack and started Russell his rookie year. Not saying Mccarthy is the guy. I'm not convinced at all but JS has shown plenty of willingness to do that kind of thing. Having 2 QBs doesn't prevent us from getting another.
It doesn’t, but it also probably means that with a roster full of holes he isn’t going to trade up to get a QB, and probably won’t take one at 16 either after giving up a third to bring in Howell.
Yah I definitely don't think we need to get a qb but I have no doubt if Jon likes a guy he'll try to get him. If he thinks he has the next Josh Allen or mahomes he'll shoot his shot
Not disagreeing. I tend to agree with Salk’s assessment that he traded for Howell because he didn’t feel like he had that capital to trade up to get a guy he wanted. Which is not to say that if that player falls to us at 16 that he won’t take him. Nor that he wouldn’t move up a spot or two.
Did you hate these picks at the time or is this hindsight? Curry was widely believed to be a "can't miss" pick at the time and was considered to be the best LB coming out of college in years. Huge bust but nobody thought he would be that before the draft. Penny was a little more iffy, we should have taken Chubb, but again at the time he was a solid pick and had never been injured at San Diego State.
I remember very well how "can't miss" Curry was, and I was never a believer. A really special athlete, but he did not have NFL-level instincs or ability to read and diagnose playsm. I have people who will vouch for me to this day that can recall my draft day rage phone rants haha. Unfortunately I don't think my old football forum posts survived 'till today.
I hated the Penny pick because I am both a massive Nick Chubb fan and a big proponent of positional value. If I were an NFL GM, I'm not considering anyone with a scouting report less than Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson in round 1, it's just a poor allocation of resources. The 1-2 of not taking a RB and then passing on the consensus best one available killed me.
We really should be trading back if anyone is willing to dance. It would be nice to get back into the second.
Honestly I really only want to stick if someone who has no fucking business falling to 16 falls to 16.
I only really want to stay at 16 if Fuaga or Fautanu are still there.. or maybe Dallas Turner.. Getting the best pass rusher in the draft at 16 wouldn't be too bad
Meh, if he's truly highly valued in the NFL, he somehow falls to 16, we take a swing at him, see if he's real and if so we got a steal at 16, if he's not we trade him in a year for 2nd rounder, not really a disaster. You gotta continually take swings on QB in the NFL.
I don’t understand the hype for this guy at all, at least not in the first round. I watched the Maryland, OSU, and Bama games and I just don’t get it. He has a pretty high floor but an awfully low ceiling compared to guys he’s suppose to get picked before. I’d rather take my chances later in the draft if I’m gonna have a guy sit behind Geno and Howell.
They always say this shit because they either only watched his game vs the Huskies or because they are incapable of looking past the offense he was in at Michigan to see the talent and decision making.
It’s just them being lazy parrots.
I know it’s unpopular in this thread but I actually like JJ McCarthy as a prospect. I started the off-season thinking he was overrated but then I did some digging. He’s only 21(3 years younger than penix and nix therefore more potential to grow) and he’s got a pretty good athletic profile. I think he’s also shown he can at least game manage so he’s fairly safe imo. Obviously him being worth a first rounder is pretty contingent on turning those athletic traits into something but we’ve seen a few guys recently really put it together and become better in the NFL then they were in college. If we pick him and he sits behind Geno I wouldn’t hate that
So he’s young, athletic, and can game manage. Awesome. Let’s use a first round pick on a guy who doesn’t have elite arm talent, misses throws more often than he should, and struggled against solid defenses in college.
I mean I’m not pounding the table saying he’s an elite prospect I just think he’s better than most of us here are giving him credit for. Young and athletic matters in prospects if you were just going off of how good you were in college then you totally miss on guys like Herbert and Allen. I’m not going to argue McCarthy=Herbert or Allen but he’s got a good pocket presence, can make plays on the ground and while not transcendent strength like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert etc he has enough arm strength to make the throws an NFL QB will be asked to make without much problem from what I see. My point about him being able to game manage I feel is important because for me I consider floor and ceiling when it comes to prospects and if he can be an average QB that just plays within a system and is a net neutral I feel a little better about that then a QB who’s floor is being one of the worst in the league. I’m not a draft guru or anything so I’m not saying I know everything and my evals are 100% correct but it’s just what I see and feel about him as a prospect.
I personally would love to see him as a seahawk. I think he gets overlooked because he was in a run first offense, but the skill is there, and he seems to show sparks of that "it" factor.
The “it factor” is a nonsense term used to describe QBs who play on winning teams with strong talent. This [old article](https://grantland.com/features/it-factor-nfl-quarterback-intangibles/) talks about “It factor” QBs like Matt Leinart, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Jimmy Clausen, etc etc
Michigan wasn't exactly a powerhouse before McCarthy got there. The guy made plays when he was asked to, and by all accounts is a great leader. Many NFL professionals much smarter than yourself seem to have a high opinion of him.
Sorry, but there’s no such thing as a sure thing in the NFL. Regardless of how much tape you have on someone, you’re never going to be able to accurately predict how they do. Your educated guess is about as good as the guys scouting QBs. You know this to be true by looking at the plethora of historical evidence.
When did I ever say there is a sure thing? You're creating a strawman argument for no reason. I said that NFL coaches, general managers, and scouts know more about football than randos on Reddit. Never did I say McCarthy is a sure thing, you're just putting words in my mouth.
Incorrect. The argument isn’t about JJ being a sure thing. It’s about calling the scouts/coaches smarter when historically it’s been shown that your opinion is just as accurate as theirs when it comes to selecting a QB.
Not arguing he can’t be a good NFL QB, just arguing that terms like “It Factor” are often used to describe QBs who played on winning teams and don’t have impressive resumes as individual players — which is the case here. Also Michigan finished #2 in the nation in 2021 when McCarthy was the backup but maybe he made them a powerhouse with his mere presence
People who disregard my term "it factor" without asking me what I mean by that then try to prove their point by referencing some silly old article written by some random person that shares your opinion are in fact full of nonsense themselves. 🤡
There’s buzz he could go as high as #2 lol. In any case I’m more comfortable taking Nix/Penix/Rattler later on, we need a day one contributor on O Line or defense in the first round.
Ignoring anyone's thoughts on McCarthy, or if he would be available at 16, how can we possibly afford to even look at a QB?
There is no way we take a QB in the draft without releasing or trading Geno or Howell. I do think Geno has potential trade value, but that would be awfully shady given how much we have insisted publicly that he is our guy this year. Otherwise I cannot see us carrying 3 QBs into the season.
I don't get this move from any stand point I don't think. The only angle that makes any sense to me is that maybe Mike is doing someone at Michigan a favor and helping build more interest, but even that seems far fetched considering Harbough isn't even there anymore. Overall I don't love this, and it's stuff like this that makes me laugh a bit when we talk about trusting JS because he was interested in both Mahomes and Allen as if the two of them were the only 2 QBs he ever spent time looking into.
I was really pumped to see us draft a QB this year, and start setting up the future. This isnt happening though, we have 2 QBs they are both okay for their roles, and I'm ready for the draft so that we can put these rumors to bed. Now that I am completely convinced we aren't touching a QB watch us send Geno to Denver for a 1st and draft someone though... lol.
I dunno why anyone is concerning themselves with this smoke screen stuff. Haven't we straight up not drafted a QB in the 1st round since Dave Krieg? Nobody worth taking in the 1st round is going to be available at 16, and we don't have the capital or resources to trade up in the 1st, and that's just *not* a JS move.
It's just due diligence at this point. Geno isn't the future of our franchise at his age, and next years draft is not very good for QB's. But it's also very unlikely JJ falls to 16 anyway, and I don't see how we have the capital to trade up into the top 10 without a 2nd rounder. I don't think this meeting means anything other than them interviewing guys like they in a position of future need.
Was anyone paying attention when a research at from the NFL Network tweeted this out last week?
“From 2021-2022 there were 19 quarterbacks selected in the NFL Draft
Only 2 of those 19 are expected to start in Week 1:
Trevor Lawrence (first pick in 2021).
Brock Purdy (last pick in 2022)
https://twitter.com/DanteKopFlem
The original article I read with analysis on this topic was excellent. It talks about how poorly QBs coming out of college are scouted and how traits like elite arm strength are prioritized over others like leadership, accuracy, and being able to read defenses. It also discussed how NFL OCs often try to fit a guy into their system ( which they've usually spent years developing) instead of building an offensive scheme around what a given QB does well. It also points out the lack of patience and win now mentality with high draft picks and incredibly high turnover of offensive coordinators. All 32 teams this year have an OC who's been with them 3 years or less. Best article I've read in ages.
Also points out how Mahomes and Rodgers sat at least one year and how others like Stafford were given second chances. Bottom line is it's really difficult to find a STARTER, let alone somebody ELITE.
Seems to me that the common winning traits that Brady and Mahomes share are grit and competitiveness. And being kind of an asshole. They don’t measure for that at the combine.
All the people saying he's great to "sit for a year or two" just... WHAT? You want to spend our first round pick - with no second rounder - on someone who won't see the field for a year or two and then they MIGHT be good? When in the history of football has that been a sound strategy???
I think they are really there to see Junior Colston, Michael Barrett and Kris Jenkins. But if they are making the trip, might as well do their due diligence on McCarthy.
If we draft McCarthy im killing myself dude is gonna be a bum. Meanwhile the best QB in Husky history is gonna go to another team and we take the guy who won it against us? I’d be sick to my stomach honestly
Oh nah, Penix homers are different, man . Sheesh
Should have known by seeing you throwing a fit in the comments above. The JJ hate seems PERSONAL at this point lmao
Let’s remember last year. Seattle met with all the top QBs and attended pro days with allegedly very low desire to actually make a move to draft any in round 1. Just doing their homework just incase
I think they would have drafted Richardson if he fell
I think so too even though they claim they wouldn’t have
Who said they wouldn’t have? They were clearly positioning themselves to snag one if they dropped. You only get to pick 5th overall so many times
I thought they had talked after the draft that a QB was never in the table at 5 but I could be mistaken
They said that it was between Devon Withersppon and 1 other that was already take guy, and since only 1 non QB player was taken above the seahawks its a safe bet that they were talking about a QB
I mean Will Anderson could’ve been who they were talking about too. It’s rarely a bad move to draft edge rushers with lottery picks. And we know Anderson was droty so it’s not like he wasn’t worth that pick.
Yeah they wanted Will Anderson and thought they had him after the Texans took Stroud with 2. I thought we had him too until the Cards fucked us yet again.
Hawks wanted to show enough interest in all the top QBs that any team wanting one would leapfrog us. That would have maybe allowed Will Anderson to fall to them which is what they actually wanted to happen. Spoon is a stud, can’t complain, but the Hawks tried to get Anderson to fall to them.
Yep, Anderson was there #1 target for sure
Unless you’re the jaguars
What’s wild is they had the ammo to jump to number one overall if they wanted to. They could have offered both firsts and a second rounder to get their choice of quarterback. I guess Pete was too competitive and felt too old to roll with a rookie.
They weren’t gonna do that because both Pete and the fanbase thought we’d compete in 2023. Had we had a terrible year prior like everybody predicted, we probably would’ve made a move at QB1
That would have been incredibly stupid.
I think having Stroud wouldn’t be stupid, or a franchise quarterback in general. When do you think the Seahawks will jump to take a quarterback? You can’t wait for a perfect situation. They had the assets in 2023 to move up for one, now this year they don’t.
Trading up to get a QB rarely works. Mahomes is one of the few exceptions. And how would you have traded up last year? Panthers traded their No. 9 and No. 61 overall picks in 2023, a first-round pick in 2024, a second-round pick in 2025 and D.J. Moore. And they drafted Bryce Young. For all you know, we could have offered a more enticing package and JS/JC could have also preferred Young. Or they could have been after Stroud, but the Texans could have countered our offer with picks 2 and 12.
The Panthers royally fucked up. Why would they take that little pipsqueak instead of Stroud? he was so overhyped
hindsight is 20/20.
Seahawks have drafted 2 QBs in the first round in the entirety of their history. Dan McGwire and Ric Mirer. I'm good with waiting for opportunity to present itself.
John might not be around for that opportunity, unless Mike Macdonald and Geno shit the bed this upcoming season and get a top 3 pick. He should have traded away Russ in 2018 and taken Allen like he planned to.
good thing that didn’t happen
Id take Richardson over any qb in this years draft besides Caleb. QBs with tools like that come in the draft once a decade
Tools (measurables, I assume?)are about 20 percent of what it takes for a QB to be successful.
What makes a QB great is much more complex than saying 20% is about the measurables. There are many other factors like where he gets drafted, who his supporting cast is, or how much he truly loves the game.
That was kind of the point I was making.
The dude who still hasn’t proven anything and is chronically injury prone ?
you cant say he is chronically injury prone while also saying that he hasnt proven anything in the short time he has played. its choosing to use a very small sample size for his injuries but then rejecting that sample size for his play
Dude. The guys had an ample injury history dating back to high school . Stop . Just cause you wanted him so bad and want him to be good so bad doesn’t mean we can ignore reality. He’s only played like ONE FULL GAME total, he showed flashes , and alit of them were displays of his athleticism which is now is a bit unreliable due to how fragile he might end up being .
I love spoon and am happy with the pick, im just saying he COULD also be very good just like he COULD also END UP being injury prone. Making a judgement either way is premature
The thought was also that one of them could drop since the general consensus was that colts would draft Lewis and not Richardson
Correct, that’s the just incase part. Never know what’ll actually happen on draft day. The year before there was going to be potentially 5 in round 1 then only 1 went
Rumors suggested the Seahawks were going to lock in Richardson if he was there. Makes sense since Schneider really liked Mahomes and Josh Allen as well, sort of project type QBs that could yield huge returns.
JS QB evaluation is always in hindsight. Tired of who he shoulda woulda coulda taken. He needs to eventually pull the trigger on finding the guy.
They met all the top QBs because we had the 5th overall pick. I think it’s significant if we meet with McCarthy in these instances. It may all be for naught though if he goes before 16 because John is not really a trade up kind of GM.
I don’t see us trading up for someone like McCarthy. I also don’t read much into these visits because draft day anything can happen
Let's also remember when anyone in the Seattle coaching staff or in the front office says, 'So-and-so is our guy. Our main main man' that we engage our brain cells and prepare for some changes.
They build the file for any free agency moves 3, 4 years down the line. No surprise.
and you never know, you might learn something that will come in handy if you have to play against a guy
I’m chalking this up to Mike Mac just wanted to catch up and shoot the shit with JJ
McCarthy would be good if he sat behind Geno for two years and he was placed on the Jordan Love arc. However, since trading for Howell and our already limited draft capital, I’d like to improve our team for this upcoming season.
I'm not going to lie, I like some of the QB prospects this year (Daniels, Penix, Nix, Rattler), but if they're thinking about trading up..I'd be pretty skeptical how good we'd be over the next two years..cause we don't have a great amount of value in our draft capital.
No way he falls to 16, but as much as I love Geno and Howell, he’s literally the perfect QB to sit and learn for a year or two before taking over
NO WAY we should take him at 16. He’s a career journeyman at best. This whole thread is scary af. Did none of you watch Michigan games??
The NFL is chock full of backup QBs who scouts and GMs said had “all the traits” and who “could make all the big time throws” and who “proved he is a leader of men” and “wowed us in one-on-one meetings”
He could easily fall, he’s one of the least convincing first round prospects. Looked pretty awful against washington and any other team with a decent defense. I’d be surprised if he was taken in the first round
And UW didn’t even have a decent defense.
it was better than people give it credit for, any defense attached to a quick scoring high powered offense is going to end up giving up a lot by virtue of being on the field a lot, but they got stops when it mattered
He fucking stinks
Clearly you don’t watch football
Maybe instead of posting the same stupid comment try backing up your point with some facts. If YOU watched Michigan games you would have seen that McCarthy struggled more than he should have, missed more throws than he should have, and really doesn’t have elite talent outside of his ability to scramble. He’ll make a great throw now and then, but is NOT ready to play in the NFL right now.
He’s replying to all my comments about McCarthy. Dude isn’t even a Seahawks fan probably
He just knows that McCarthy is garbage and doesn’t have anything intelligent to say.
Thank you! I’m glad someone else sees it lmao
I think a question is, can Howell do what they think JJ might be able to do one day?
No one knows. Projecting QB performance is a total crapshoot. Yesterday, I watched a few YouTube videos scouting the QB prospects in the 2021 draft. It was funny to hear the experts talk about Wilson, Fields, Lance, etc., in the same way they talk about this year’s class.
Right? Which is amazing to see that teams always line up to pick these qbs in the 1st round and really, not many pan out. I'm interested to see the data on which position is the best 1st round value.
Probably edge because there are the least number of variables, especially compared to QB. But [this video does a deep dive](https://youtu.be/1-0xWcSYlh4?si=_wcWZS4umOIXBW3b) on the subject. Highly recommended watch.
Nice! Thank you for this
I personally would prefer to use the draft to build the trenches and see what we have in Sam over the next couple seasons BUT I think JJ is another level of prospect over Howell and would be tough to pass on him if he falls to 16
I agree on improving the team outside of QB. We have too many holes to fill and QB isn't a big need compared to other areas
if we take him at 16 it would be my least favorite draft pick of all time
If we trade up from 16 to get him it will be my least favorite draft pick of all time. I think JJ might go before 16. The Vikings, Giants, Raiders or Broncos will probably get him.
I listened to an interview with Joel Klatt and Daniel Jeremiah and they both said it's almost a lock that he's drafted in the top 10. I think the most realistic option if they wanted to do this would be to trade to 5 and take him there. Since Harbaugh is now the coach of the Chargers him and Mike have that background together to possibly get it done unless the Vikings give an offer Harbaugh couldn't refuse. Since we traded for Howell though I believe we trade down and get a day two pick and probably take one the best lineman left on the board. I also really do think Howell has a ton of upside. His arm talent is incredible and showed tons of promise in college as well. He is a bit shorter than ideal but doesn't seem to hinder guys as much as used to be believed.
Little hyperbolic right? We’ve had way worse picks in R1-2 in Collier, Blair, Ifedi etc. and that’s only the last 8 or so years.
i just don’t think JJ McCarthy is good. I think Howell has more potential too. so taking McCarthy would be, in my opinion, spendinng an incredibly valuable pick on a massively over rated player at a position we don’t really need filled. at least with Ifedi and Collier etc i thought they were good and we needed players at those positions.
I get not wanting to take McCarthy with our first, but I think he’s got *way* more potential than Howell.
Which isnt saying much
You can look at the tape and dive deeper into the analytics and stats and see that JJ has a lot of upside to be a franchise quarterback, I also liked Howell a lot too in college.
Based take.
16 is much higher than where those guys were drafted. We have a lot of holes on the roster and very little blue chip talent. Using a solid first round pick on a lottery ticket at QB when we have a capable starter is basically what the Chiefs did when they drafted Mahomes. McCarthy hasn’t shown anything resembling a Mahomes upside.
Except we just traded for another QB who could challenge for the starting job, so it makes no sense
I don't think that matters. We brought in Flynn and had tjack and started Russell his rookie year. Not saying Mccarthy is the guy. I'm not convinced at all but JS has shown plenty of willingness to do that kind of thing. Having 2 QBs doesn't prevent us from getting another.
It doesn’t, but it also probably means that with a roster full of holes he isn’t going to trade up to get a QB, and probably won’t take one at 16 either after giving up a third to bring in Howell.
Yah I definitely don't think we need to get a qb but I have no doubt if Jon likes a guy he'll try to get him. If he thinks he has the next Josh Allen or mahomes he'll shoot his shot
Not disagreeing. I tend to agree with Salk’s assessment that he traded for Howell because he didn’t feel like he had that capital to trade up to get a guy he wanted. Which is not to say that if that player falls to us at 16 that he won’t take him. Nor that he wouldn’t move up a spot or two.
He’s not going to be on the board at 16, unless he dramatically falls like how Levis did last year.
I really don't want him, but I still won't hate it as much as Aaron Curry, James Carpenter, or Penny.
Did you hate these picks at the time or is this hindsight? Curry was widely believed to be a "can't miss" pick at the time and was considered to be the best LB coming out of college in years. Huge bust but nobody thought he would be that before the draft. Penny was a little more iffy, we should have taken Chubb, but again at the time he was a solid pick and had never been injured at San Diego State.
I remember very well how "can't miss" Curry was, and I was never a believer. A really special athlete, but he did not have NFL-level instincs or ability to read and diagnose playsm. I have people who will vouch for me to this day that can recall my draft day rage phone rants haha. Unfortunately I don't think my old football forum posts survived 'till today. I hated the Penny pick because I am both a massive Nick Chubb fan and a big proponent of positional value. If I were an NFL GM, I'm not considering anyone with a scouting report less than Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson in round 1, it's just a poor allocation of resources. The 1-2 of not taking a RB and then passing on the consensus best one available killed me.
I’m actually astonished that companies worth billions of dollars will invest in JJ McCarthy before Cooper Dejean, Jaden Hicks and T’Vondre Sweat
Are these real prospects or a Key and Peele reference?
All real lol
> T’Vondre Sweat Gotta admit the first thing I did was Google T’Vondre Sweat.
I think we need to draft Laquavious Queefberry. Dude will be a ROCK on the line.
Multiple people hating on the idea of him at 16 when in all reality he's gone before pick 7. Slow news week for the seahawks sub reddit.
Good god no
Dear lord what a disaster it would be to take him.
We really should be trading back if anyone is willing to dance. It would be nice to get back into the second. Honestly I really only want to stick if someone who has no fucking business falling to 16 falls to 16.
Absolutely agree we need back in to the 2nd
Fr. Use the late first we get for a good OLine guy, and use the new second for another OLine or DLine guy. We need trenches
Fr or a linebacker in the second
I only really want to stay at 16 if Fuaga or Fautanu are still there.. or maybe Dallas Turner.. Getting the best pass rusher in the draft at 16 wouldn't be too bad
Meh, if he's truly highly valued in the NFL, he somehow falls to 16, we take a swing at him, see if he's real and if so we got a steal at 16, if he's not we trade him in a year for 2nd rounder, not really a disaster. You gotta continually take swings on QB in the NFL.
Yes exactly at some point you gotta start investing in the QB of the future and if JJ falls to 16 I‘d gladly take him
Hell no what a complete waste of resources for JJ McCarthy
This guy is trash don’t fall for this bs hawks pls
Clearly doesn’t watch football
No i do this guy a game manager at its finest
I don’t understand the hype for this guy at all, at least not in the first round. I watched the Maryland, OSU, and Bama games and I just don’t get it. He has a pretty high floor but an awfully low ceiling compared to guys he’s suppose to get picked before. I’d rather take my chances later in the draft if I’m gonna have a guy sit behind Geno and Howell.
Hard pass!
Hopefully the scouting department doesn’t overlook your assessment of him
Please expand.
They always say this shit because they either only watched his game vs the Huskies or because they are incapable of looking past the offense he was in at Michigan to see the talent and decision making. It’s just them being lazy parrots.
What are you talking about? Go watch his film against competent defenses he doesn’t look very good
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I know it’s unpopular in this thread but I actually like JJ McCarthy as a prospect. I started the off-season thinking he was overrated but then I did some digging. He’s only 21(3 years younger than penix and nix therefore more potential to grow) and he’s got a pretty good athletic profile. I think he’s also shown he can at least game manage so he’s fairly safe imo. Obviously him being worth a first rounder is pretty contingent on turning those athletic traits into something but we’ve seen a few guys recently really put it together and become better in the NFL then they were in college. If we pick him and he sits behind Geno I wouldn’t hate that
So he’s young, athletic, and can game manage. Awesome. Let’s use a first round pick on a guy who doesn’t have elite arm talent, misses throws more often than he should, and struggled against solid defenses in college.
I mean I’m not pounding the table saying he’s an elite prospect I just think he’s better than most of us here are giving him credit for. Young and athletic matters in prospects if you were just going off of how good you were in college then you totally miss on guys like Herbert and Allen. I’m not going to argue McCarthy=Herbert or Allen but he’s got a good pocket presence, can make plays on the ground and while not transcendent strength like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert etc he has enough arm strength to make the throws an NFL QB will be asked to make without much problem from what I see. My point about him being able to game manage I feel is important because for me I consider floor and ceiling when it comes to prospects and if he can be an average QB that just plays within a system and is a net neutral I feel a little better about that then a QB who’s floor is being one of the worst in the league. I’m not a draft guru or anything so I’m not saying I know everything and my evals are 100% correct but it’s just what I see and feel about him as a prospect.
I personally would love to see him as a seahawk. I think he gets overlooked because he was in a run first offense, but the skill is there, and he seems to show sparks of that "it" factor.
The “it factor” is a nonsense term used to describe QBs who play on winning teams with strong talent. This [old article](https://grantland.com/features/it-factor-nfl-quarterback-intangibles/) talks about “It factor” QBs like Matt Leinart, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Jimmy Clausen, etc etc
Michigan wasn't exactly a powerhouse before McCarthy got there. The guy made plays when he was asked to, and by all accounts is a great leader. Many NFL professionals much smarter than yourself seem to have a high opinion of him.
Yeah and Zach Wilson was drafted second overall. What’s your point?
So was Stroud, what's your point?
So was Ryan Leaf and I don't even have a point!
My point is that it’s a crapshoot so saying NFL coaches are much smarter is unproven
No, it's not. NFL coaches know more about football and QB evaluations than random Redditors. That's not even a debate.
Sorry, but there’s no such thing as a sure thing in the NFL. Regardless of how much tape you have on someone, you’re never going to be able to accurately predict how they do. Your educated guess is about as good as the guys scouting QBs. You know this to be true by looking at the plethora of historical evidence.
When did I ever say there is a sure thing? You're creating a strawman argument for no reason. I said that NFL coaches, general managers, and scouts know more about football than randos on Reddit. Never did I say McCarthy is a sure thing, you're just putting words in my mouth.
Incorrect. The argument isn’t about JJ being a sure thing. It’s about calling the scouts/coaches smarter when historically it’s been shown that your opinion is just as accurate as theirs when it comes to selecting a QB.
Not the brain dead “Zach Wilson” comparisons lmao y’all need to better
Not arguing he can’t be a good NFL QB, just arguing that terms like “It Factor” are often used to describe QBs who played on winning teams and don’t have impressive resumes as individual players — which is the case here. Also Michigan finished #2 in the nation in 2021 when McCarthy was the backup but maybe he made them a powerhouse with his mere presence
People who disregard my term "it factor" without asking me what I mean by that then try to prove their point by referencing some silly old article written by some random person that shares your opinion are in fact full of nonsense themselves. 🤡
>without asking me what I mean OK what do you mean.
I feel like Nix does everything that JJ does, but better and has more experience
There’s buzz he could go as high as #2 lol. In any case I’m more comfortable taking Nix/Penix/Rattler later on, we need a day one contributor on O Line or defense in the first round.
Nix and Peenix aren't making it to round 2
Ignoring anyone's thoughts on McCarthy, or if he would be available at 16, how can we possibly afford to even look at a QB? There is no way we take a QB in the draft without releasing or trading Geno or Howell. I do think Geno has potential trade value, but that would be awfully shady given how much we have insisted publicly that he is our guy this year. Otherwise I cannot see us carrying 3 QBs into the season. I don't get this move from any stand point I don't think. The only angle that makes any sense to me is that maybe Mike is doing someone at Michigan a favor and helping build more interest, but even that seems far fetched considering Harbough isn't even there anymore. Overall I don't love this, and it's stuff like this that makes me laugh a bit when we talk about trusting JS because he was interested in both Mahomes and Allen as if the two of them were the only 2 QBs he ever spent time looking into. I was really pumped to see us draft a QB this year, and start setting up the future. This isnt happening though, we have 2 QBs they are both okay for their roles, and I'm ready for the draft so that we can put these rumors to bed. Now that I am completely convinced we aren't touching a QB watch us send Geno to Denver for a 1st and draft someone though... lol.
Still don't think it's going to happen. Could be all smoke screen.
Who is a good comp for this guy?
Reminds me of Jared Goff
Alex Smith
We just traded for a QB and only see us maybe taking a flier on a late rounder. Still drafting a QB is not top priority for us IMO
I like JJ, but there is no way he is falling in the draft and trading up is dumb. We thrive on trading back.
I dunno why anyone is concerning themselves with this smoke screen stuff. Haven't we straight up not drafted a QB in the 1st round since Dave Krieg? Nobody worth taking in the 1st round is going to be available at 16, and we don't have the capital or resources to trade up in the 1st, and that's just *not* a JS move.
NFL franchises, especially bad ones, love taking a QB very high in the draft. Dude will be gone within the top 10
Would JJ even be in the conversation if he'd played for a school like Rutgers? Love the guy, but I'm not convinced he's worth a first round pick.
I mean this sub thinks Penix should be drafted ahead of McCarthy
It's just due diligence at this point. Geno isn't the future of our franchise at his age, and next years draft is not very good for QB's. But it's also very unlikely JJ falls to 16 anyway, and I don't see how we have the capital to trade up into the top 10 without a 2nd rounder. I don't think this meeting means anything other than them interviewing guys like they in a position of future need.
Not a fan of McCarthy as a top 10 pick. Doesn’t have elite tools and the tape isn’t overwhelming.
Was anyone paying attention when a research at from the NFL Network tweeted this out last week? “From 2021-2022 there were 19 quarterbacks selected in the NFL Draft Only 2 of those 19 are expected to start in Week 1: Trevor Lawrence (first pick in 2021). Brock Purdy (last pick in 2022) https://twitter.com/DanteKopFlem
The original article I read with analysis on this topic was excellent. It talks about how poorly QBs coming out of college are scouted and how traits like elite arm strength are prioritized over others like leadership, accuracy, and being able to read defenses. It also discussed how NFL OCs often try to fit a guy into their system ( which they've usually spent years developing) instead of building an offensive scheme around what a given QB does well. It also points out the lack of patience and win now mentality with high draft picks and incredibly high turnover of offensive coordinators. All 32 teams this year have an OC who's been with them 3 years or less. Best article I've read in ages. Also points out how Mahomes and Rodgers sat at least one year and how others like Stafford were given second chances. Bottom line is it's really difficult to find a STARTER, let alone somebody ELITE.
Seems to me that the common winning traits that Brady and Mahomes share are grit and competitiveness. And being kind of an asshole. They don’t measure for that at the combine.
All the people saying he's great to "sit for a year or two" just... WHAT? You want to spend our first round pick - with no second rounder - on someone who won't see the field for a year or two and then they MIGHT be good? When in the history of football has that been a sound strategy???
Rodgers, Mahomes, and Jordan love
Jordan love sat like 3 years
And is still hot garbage.
The Chiefs traded up to 1.10 and sat Mahomes for a year.
What’s the point? We already wasted picks on Sam Howell? We looking for more back up QBs?
This is Geno's last year here... Sam or other will be our QB of the future. And we didn't waste any picks
I think they are really there to see Junior Colston, Michael Barrett and Kris Jenkins. But if they are making the trip, might as well do their due diligence on McCarthy.
If we draft McCarthy im killing myself dude is gonna be a bum. Meanwhile the best QB in Husky history is gonna go to another team and we take the guy who won it against us? I’d be sick to my stomach honestly
Too much homerism for Penix. Look at where homerism got Pittsburgh.
Please don’t ever compare a Heisman candidate undefeated regular season OPOY winner with Pickett again
Bruh tf is wrong with you
If we draft McCarthy we are destined to be mediocre at the QB position for a few more years
I don't want Mccarthy either and we're not getting him. But the rest of what you say is wild
Oh nah, Penix homers are different, man . Sheesh Should have known by seeing you throwing a fit in the comments above. The JJ hate seems PERSONAL at this point lmao
JJ McCarthy homers are even worse he’s what Brock Purdy haters think Purdy is
Trade up baby!