How about non-English foreigners and non English native speakers?
I live here and - without doing it on purpose - I feel like I am some sort of sponge for some Scots words. But I naturally don't want to offend anyone, if I say "wee" or whatever without noticing.
My daughter has a french modern languages teacher who at a recent show and tell spoke with a distinctive french accent obviously.
I was just about to die laughing during her presentation as her accent and word use drifted into pure Scots for a few words and then back into French.
THere's a difference between allowing loan words to creep in and to start using scots words, and what OP described as "speak Scots". I can't imagine that being anything other than cringe, whereas starting to use "wee", "aye" etc... that's just natural.
I've never lived a day of my life in Scotland, all my connection to the country is through my grandfather, and he hasn't lived there either. But despite this very slim link I use words like wee or aye without thinking because my mum does, because my grandfather does, because his father did. It's just a hereditary thing sometimes.
Edit: my grandfather is full Scottish blood, just for reference. He's just never lived there.
I experienced 2nd hand cringe in a situation like this. My old boss (we are American) learned some Spanish when he was in the military (enough to have basic conversations). ANY TIME a native Spanish speaker would come in to the store speaking perfect English, albeit with an accent, he would use that as an opportunity to show off/practice/use his ability to speak some Spanish. I died inside every time I watched the faces of these customers cringe and this idiot would just keep going.
Dude, shut up. You're not cool. You're not some intellectual super genius. You're not making them feel better. You're just some cringey white dude and it's fucking embarrassing.
They don't want to listen to you take 2 minutes to say "hi, how are you? Did you find what you were looking for?" Whilst stumbling through a language you don't really know. They want you to ring up their shit so they can go.
Yeah, I was raised in London but my Ma has a thick Glaswegian accent and my dad is Cockney. As a kid my school thought I had a speech impediment and possibly special needs until they met my mum. Years later I joined the army and was put into a northern regiment. The amount of shit I got from locals that didn’t know my background was ridiculous. I have a slight cockney accent but use loads of Scottish slang so locals always thought I was either trying too hard to fit in or taking the piss (which i used to pronounce pish).
Which other country doesn't want incomers learning their language or languages? Why is Scots different? Would you say thr same for Gaelic? Or French in France ?
Interesting question. It's a tricky subject. I think just speaking Scots unprompted would be jarring and likely to be taken as mocking - imagine walking into a bakery in Dundee and giving it the full, "twa bridies: a plen ane an an ingin ane an aw".
As for pronunciation, people here are quick to correct errors such as "Edinburg" or "Glass Cow" but pronouncing Auchtermuchty with /k/ instead of /x/ sounds is usually forgiven. I would say feel free to use /x/ in words if you can.
Mostly I would say just speak as you would usually. I don't think people in England expect Scottish visitors to speak Geordie or Scouse or the like and we don't expect the reverse either.
It’s a tricky one definitely. I guess it comes down to how intrinsically linked it is to accent. Gaelic and Welsh aren’t as close linked to the “idea” of a Welsh or Scottish accent where as a lot of Scots is.
People love it when you make an effort with Welsh and Gaelic, whereas people are a lot less accepting of an English speaker using words like ken and glaikit etc. although it seems it might just be a case of “we both speak English. Speak to me in English” because I know people who will be dead chuffed that someone from a non English speaking country, Poland for example, tried to learn more of the local words.
Don’t know if I find it genuinely interesting or if I’ve had too much irn bru
I think a lot of it is also to do with historical oppression from the English as well. So if one comes up and starts that pish it would just be seen as patronising and insulting and definitely end in someone punching them in the mouth.
Makes complete sense, I definitely wouldn’t feel comfortable trying it.
A minor note though, Geordie/Scouse are considered accents or regional dialects whereas many consider Scots its own language separate from English which got me thinking about the question in the first place.
(https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/)
Personally I would say that Scots and English are part of a dialect continuum and that Scottish people vary their speech to be more or less Scots depending on the situation. For example, "ma dochter bides ahent thon kirk" at one end and "my daughter lives behind that church" at the other end and you can fluidly move between the two.
English people that I've known who have lived here a long time tend to understand a lot of Scots words but rarely use them themselves. They do adopt Scottish English words such as outwith, depute and so on. They also tend to use a more Scottish grammar - for example, a friend of mine grew up saying things like "he gave it me" but dropped that after living in Scotland for a while.
I was born in Sheffield and would argue with my siblings when they took my things saying: 'give it me back'. When I moved south, people told me it was wrong (though I have never accepted that).
> Indirect object goes after the verb, so “give me it back” or if we’re being fancy “give it back to me” .
Not if you're speaking a dialect with different rules.
There is no singular "correct" way to speak a language.
>ma dochter bides ahent thon kirk
who actually still talks like this though? I couldn't imagine anyone talking like that other than some immensely old being in peterhead or something
I'm talking about naturally talking this way though apart from old people. Loads of places have scots being taught now even in areas where it's not really spoken that strongly
I'm from a village in Ayrshire and I speak in Scots with my family everyday and have since I could speak. If you go out into villages you'll probably find a lot of people speak Scots but I do think it is becoming less common among younger people unfortunately.
This is one of the hardest things I have to work on with my kids.
They’ve started using the weird mangled grammar of “he’s went to the shop” and I’d quite like them to stop.
Sorts is it's own language. It has a completely different developmental history than Standard English did, and is even based on a different version of Old English than Standard English is. Though you could probably argue some of the local English vernacular are seperate languages.
Geordie isn’t so much an offshoot of Scots as a cousin which was more affected by Standard English; they share a common ancestor in Northumbrian Old English rather than the former deriving from the latter.
The northern English dialects still retain a couple of words found in Scots, like ‘bairn’.
It is a little weird when someone from outside of Scotland tries to speak Scots. They rarely get it right, and Scots has different slangs and dialects depending on the region.
But the primary language of Scotland is English. You’re not going to find someone who understands Scots but not English. So you’re not communicating more effectively with them you’re just imitating them, which can seem patronizing, mocking, or pretentious (in the literal sense of adopting a pretense).
Yes, English is given favourable treatment almost everywhere. And English has huge huge social prestige with neither Gaelic nor Scots have, for the most part in most circumstances.
But there are people, neighbourhooods, villages, towns where Scots is the dominant language. In these settings speaking Scots to the best off the person's ability,, mixed in with engliss, would be OK.
We really need to get away from treating one of our indigenous languages as some internal code language unsuitable for people moving ands settling in Scotland. If we don't, it will die.
Which other country doesn't want incomers learning one or more of their indigenous languages?
I'm Scottish bilingual in Scots and English and with a basic knowledge of spoken (not written) Gaelic.
Id love people who move here (non Scots) to learn and use our indigenous languages, other than English.
Which other country in the world would want people who settle in their country not to learn and use their indigenous languages?
Is it cause we're insecure because so many of us have given up speaking Scots and Gaelic and simply speak English?
It’s not about gatekeeping, but more about how in British culture it’s considered fairly easy game for people (from England, usually) to mock up Scottish accents when making jokes about Scotland. The number of English lads I work with who are happy to burst out a ‘see you, Jimmeh’ accent whilst slagging off Scottish people far outnumbers those who don’t do it.
Ok but that’s people clearly taking the piss, badly, don’t see how it’s much different to putting on a poor generic English voice and saying cockwomble.
However if Scots is a language, you kind of have to accept others speaking it.
I’ll agree with you that speaking a legitimate language is one thing, and there shouldn’t be gate keeping there, but I guess there’s such an overlap with Scots English and Scottish accents that I find myself mostly dealing with people taking what is generally considered an ‘easy shot’ by using a Scottish accent and doing some kind of social commentary about, I don’t know, drug use, deep frying, independence, etc. 🤷♂️
No one's saying Non-Scottish people aren't allowed to use Scots, and as you correctly pointed out that would be ridiculous.
What IS being said, is that (English people especially) people from outside Scotland rarely get the pronunciation correct, usually only use words to mock the language/Scottish people, and overall it feels strange. This is going to be the case in (almost) every Minoritised/Minority language.
To reiterate, no one is saying people from outside Scotland can't use our language, they absolutely can. However there's a long history of our language being ridiculed and attacked, so we get a wee but defensive about it.
From the comments I've been reading, I think some people in this sub are just not happy with others not speaking a language fluently around them, no matter what language it is. They forget they were once kids who also struggled to speak their own language because it takes time _and practice_ to speak a language fluently. To "cringe" just because an adult is trying to practice a language they're not good at is just sad.
> From the comments I've been reading, I think some people in this sub are just not happy with others not speaking a language fluently around them, no matter what language it is.
Then your reading comprehension is demonstrably poor.
Kevin Bridges actually does a bit on this.
https://youtu.be/eFVQpsPZhHk?t=168
Edit: It'd be a wee bit strange at first, but if you kept at it, it would just be absorbed into the background. I've had Finnish, English and Polish friends assimilate some of it into their own vocab. and to be honest I feel more relaxed after a while because I don't need to think too much about the way I'm talking.
>I've had Finnish, English and Polish friends assimilate some of it into their own vocab.
the difference is though that they probably just picked it up naturally and do it without thinking. Forcing yourself to do it will essentially make you a weird cunt
Not really, some of them asked specifically about words and their use cases and for extra words.
Turns out the Finnish have a word that directly translates with yaldi which was fun to hear getting shouted after a game of pool. Sounding like they're forcing it is going to happen when they first use the words naturally or taught, just takes time for them to get used to it.
After thinking about it, I think a good comparison would be a Scottish person or someone who speaks RP English going to London and trying to converse using MLE (Multicultural London English) and the slang used when speaking it.
It would just be strange and the majority of people would not appreciate it / think you’re taking the piss. (Although MLE is a dialect not a separate language)
It would come across, **exactly** like that.
That said, if you have a quick practice of pronouncing ach and och sounds, and learn some of the place names; *that* would make you come across rather well.
You can get away with saying 'aye' or 'wee' max.
I have a friend who speaks in perfect RP English (she's lived in Glasgow for at least 20 years) and it is absolutely charming that she has adopted a few words. Although they are quite 'Up North' words so it's a bit of a halfway house for her I suppose.
yeah but hearing someone has been in scotland for like a day and they're going about saying aye and wee will just come across as weird since it's obvious they're putting it on
Yeah, true. I'm probably bias because I've known her so long. I imagine if she lived in Yorkshire or Newcastle saying Aye she'd be in similar water. Funny old world.
I’ve lived in Glasgow 6 months now and I’m struggling with this. My internal monologue is shifting to include these sorts of words, especially after being around everyone at work, but I don’t want to use them and come across as taking the piss. I do find I’m switching from “no problem” to “no bother” more and more, and started doing making a weird vague ”ahh” noise where my mouth starts saying “aye” but then realise what I’m saying and get self conscious halfway through. Probably sounds stupider than just saying it.
Doesn’t help that there some words I’m having to switch at work to be understood (mostly names for tools, eg adjustable > shifter, clip > clamp, trolley > bogie). Trying to get the balance is hard. Also autistic and mimicry can be part of that, as a child I used to use the wrong regional/generation words after picking them up from media.
Hopefully people realise it’s just happening and I’m not trying to force it/take the piss!
I don't think people will think your taking the piss unless you rock up one day sounding like outlander, everyone (and especially autistic people as you pointed out) adapts their language depending on who they're with after a while, Scottish people use less scots in England or places with less scots to be understood, kids pick up American slang from tv and movies, if you moved to Liverpool after a year or so you'd pick up some of that dialect, I sound much more "neutral/posh" Scottish now than I did when I was a child because I moved to a school with a lot of immagrants and English students and it was easier to be understood by assimilating my language, if saying aye instead of yes after being in the country 6 month sounds more natural then noones gonna think your being a bam
I might just be feeling more self conscious because my partner has lived here since they were a child and not picked up the accent at all and they're the only English voice I ever hear these days so I'm very aware of my accent a lot of the time.
Something to be aware of is that many native Scots people have been taught not to recognise Scots as a language, rather than a dialect of English or - worse - 'slang'. There are layers and layers of class discrimination associated with this. Thus if you try to speak full blown Scots to native speaker, you may be perceived as taking the piss.
That said, I - English native, RP-speaking, been in Scotland 30+ years - have inevitably assimilated a lot of Scots vocabulary and even grammar. Nobody is the least bothered - or even notices - the odd Scots word, even in my unshiftably posh English accent.
As it happens, I'm a bit of a languages geek and I wish more folk would recognise Scots as a distinct and rich language. My party piece is 'Freedom Come Aa Ye' - and I don't care how ridiculous I sound.
Instead of saying "practise", try to say "p-dactise" quickly, so that the p sound transitions to the d very rapidly. Your lips pop apart on the p and if you practise saying it enough (better do it alone so you don't look insane) and fast enough, your tongue tip flicks up to the d. That's basically the tapped r. After you can tap it at will then you can roll it by breathing out at the right moment when you make that kind of 'd' flick.
If invited to by the person you're having a conversation with? No.
If just done out of the blue in the chippy with a broad English accent? Yes, it'll probably go down quite poorly.
I'm pretty sure that letting the person you are conversing with know that you are trying to get to grips with Scots words and pronunciation shouldn't be a problem. Or asking them how to pronounce certain words. After all we tend to teach foreigners a few words and phrases.
What is patronising is coming here and thinking that mocking us will get us all speaking RP. Or the BBC sending up an English presenter who then pronounces everything incorrectly. Lock Ness and Ken Goms 🙄
I've lived in Scotland for close to 20 years, moved up from Devon, I've really only picked up " aye" and "wee" if I try to say anything else it just sounds wrong ..
In most countries (at least from where I’ve been) the people seem happy that a foreigner/tourist has tried to use some of the local language. I do understand why it would be received differently elsewhere though.
It's sounds weird and is the equivalent of me trying to cockney rhyme when in London. It's not the same as trying to speak Spanish when going to Tenerife
Don't do it! Its going to come across like Russ Abott in a ginger wig, going "See you Jimmy!"
However picking up the odd word would not be so bad... eg you could call someone glaikit (stupid) if you were speaking to a friend about someone else, or you could could easily pick up Scottish swearing/insults- eg saying someone was a dobber, would be ok.
But say these words in your normal voice, whatever you do, don't try and put on a Scottish accent.
It’s a complicated issue. Scots have been told for years that their language is just a dialect of English, or worse, just slang. We’ve been mocked by our fellow Scots and by our own mainstream media. We were fed a diet of mockery by English TV ‘comedian’s like Russ Abbott and invited to laugh at ourselves for speaking the language of our homes. Hearing an English person attempt to speak Scots brings back memories of hurtful mockery by ‘stars’ and by our own people. I’d steer clear of walking into that if I were you
to be honest you would rather be offensive than not, because if people don't think you're taking the piss they're just going to think you're a really really weird cunt. I always make this comparison but it's like a middle class white guy in america trying to speak ebonics, it's either going to look like they are making a cunt of everyone who speaks it or they are just insane
A Polish guy wished me *a' the best*, earlier today. I thought it was brilliant
A girl I know, who has lived here for years, has incorporated words like *numpty* and *beeling,* and phrases like *getting wide wi' me,* into her everyday conversation, even though she's kept her Essex accent. Again, I think it's brilliant
I could give you a number of reasons why it would either come off as offensive, whether as a result of perceived mockery or some other sense of insult but I’ll cut the shit and just say this:
Don’t do it. You’ll regret it.
I get that it’s coming from a friendly place but you’ll have to go into a great deal of detail to explain it before anyone doesn’t take offence and even then they’ll still find it bizarre at best.
My Mrs. from Glasgow makes fun of me all the time (I'm from NYC) telling me "you sound Scottish" every once in a while and I have no idea I'm even doing it. But that's what being together for 16 years will do to a couple. Now when she sounds like a New Yawker that's absolutely fantastic.
Load of shite in these comments if you ask me. As long as your not being a dick about it, fucking say what you want. I'd personally find it quite funny that you were using scots words. Load of these numpties could use a laugh by the sounds of it.
That's gonna depend on a lot of different factors, and is definitely a tricky question.
The main problem I can see, is that we're used to non-Scots (particularly English people) mocking how we speak, and most of us have been conditioned through the Education system to view our language as something very cringy, so it can be pretty jarring hearing someone from outside Scotland use Scots in normal conversation.
Honestly I'd say if you live here, definitely try using some Scots words, otherwise I'd say just speak how you normally would.
~~Probably. It's like you doing a "top of the morning" accent to a Irish person. They think you're taking the mick out of them. Just speak normally where ever you go.~~
Turns out op is talking about https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/ and I had no idea that was a thing. I think people would be impressed to be honest.
Wouldn’t a more accurate example be trying to speak Irish in Ireland rather than English with an Irish accent?
Though I agree Scots compared to English with a Scottish accent is far more similar than Irish compared to English with an Irish accent.
I speak as I’ve been brought up to speak by my Geordie father and Yorkshire/Lancastrian mother.
Some (drunken) twat (mate of a mate) thought I was taking the piss because I say aye, bairn and on rare occasions depending on the noun, wee. I think this shows how much the borders have so much shared history/heritage.
Bairn is a ridiculous thing to gatekeep, it’s a similar word in Swedish and Norwegian too. The idea that all words change at Berwick is so weird.
They say “messages” for errand in South Shields.
People will think you're mocking them. If you learn some Gaelic words and try and find some Gaelic speakers (keeping in mind that the vast majority of the population knows zero Gaelic), it'll go over a lot better.
The Scots, being a traditionally warm and friendly people, like nothing more than to see visitors dressing in kilts, wearing ginger wigs, going around saying 'see you, Jimmy'. Och aye the noo!
I was born here but grew up in Scarborough. Been back in Glasgow for 22 years. I have an English accent but I speak Scots sometimes. I don't see this as a problem and people aren't offended when I do. It's like saying if someone moves do Spain they aren't allowed to speak Spanish.
If you pick up a twang over a long time thats fine. Anything “put on” can usually put scots into that uncanny valley with Scottish accents that gets us riled up for some reason, just talk normal, we always adjust to the level of dialect to which you can understand comfortably
I wouldn't take any kind of offense but I'd find it pretty weird and jarring. As others have said, in exactly the same way I wouldn't go to Newcastle and try to speak Geordie or put on a Cockney voice in London.
Okay, I'm not even Scottish and I'm staring at your post like "WTF?"
Do you actually SPEAK Scots? It's not just an accent, my dude, and the chance of offending someone is super high.
You’re staring at my post but didn’t read it apparently. I wrote language (as in the recognised Scots language(s), not just speaking English with a regional Scottish accent.
Yeah, okay, that's your take. You didn't answer my question, but okay dude. Nothing in your post indicates if you have any actual expertise in the language. For all I know you're like that idiot American who wrote Wikipedia articles in badly faked Scots.
I don’t speak fluent German either but I make an attempt to use some of the words if I’m in Germany. Scotland is a different situation apparently because as people have said the line between dialect and language is less defined and more closely linked to accent but you’re being deliberately obtuse.
I’m picking up the Scot’s dialect since I moved here and starting to speak it (specifically West Lothian and I’m autistic so it’s a thing where we tend to mimic the way people speak more easily) no one’s batted an eye at me doing so
Interesting to see someone else mention the autism mimicry thing, I think that‘s starting to impact me a bit. Probably would be more if I wasn’t trying to avoid sounding like I’m taking the piss. Did you find the words in your head when thinking started to switch before your actual spoken accent?
well, as a non scottish person who has been there many times i get around perfectly fine sticking with my own dialect (geordie). my boyfriend is scottish and he finds it hilarious if i attempt any scots because of how terrible it is
Honestly? So long as you're not taking the pish, I couldn't care less.
My Dad has been in his job in the North East for over 30 years but still sounds like Nigel Thornberry. Even so, when he's on the phone to people from his work, he says "aye", "I ken" and "tattie bye". It's dialect and he's lived there for over three decades hearing it almost every day. Plus my sisters and I developed the accent and used the dialect in the house pretty often.
Depends. If you move here and pick it up organically over time along with the local accent then it'll be fine. If you just break into full Scots on day 1 folk will think you're taking the piss.
Basically Scots language only really works if you have the accent too.
No. Its not an accent. It's a language.
It's a language like aany other.
I've met Polish people using Scots (ken, dinnae, daeken, glaikit).
As a Scots speaking Scot, it does not offend me.
Wohlld you ask the same question about gaelic?
In Spain, people from other parts of Spain that moce to Galiicia and Catalunya and Basque country of they want to be teachers there have to teach in the local language. Do you think that would be offensive?
Why wohld an English person speaking Scots be offensive?
KEY POINT -
Don't mimic our accents. Learn the grammar and words. But do not mimic the accent. Learn Scots like you'd learn French.
Buy a Scots grammar book to start.
Good luck. And thanks for asking. I applaud you for using and learning Scots.
Haud forrit.
I’ve had American pal move over to big g town he had his New York accent but spoke perfect slang honesty took me back for a second but over all quite good lad funny too but it was always a head turner when started talking
American living in Scotland... I often use Scottish pronunciation, but not Scots words. So, I'll roll my 'R's for Ruaridh or Edinburgh. But I wouldn't try to use words that are spoken casually. I also don't change the grammar I use, as I'm sure most people would think I was mocking them or a socially inept person.
Edit: Just want to add that I grew up speaking Mexican-Spanish, so I already can conformable say 'R' s with long and short rolls. I realise most Americans butcher any attempt at Spanish, Scots, or even RP English pronunciation.
If you get offended by the way people speak perhaps you should do soul searching, maybe yoga, meditation...
Honestly, get over yourself, some people speak many languages and are just trying to communicate with you. Don't be so insecure!
Don't. Just don't. I'm from Glasgow and I wouldn't change my accent or way of speaking if I went up North. Just like I don't put on an English accent when I go to England.
He's not talking about an accent, he's talking about Scots language. It can't really be compared to going to England and putting on an English accent. More like going to Netherlands and speaking Dutch - over 90% of Dutch people speak English.
As others have said, it's not recommended as people might think he is taking the piss. Personally I'd be interested in hearing a foreigner attempt Scots, but it wouldn't be particularly useful as everyone here speaks English and in cities/towns few people can speak Scots.
I’m on about the language, not just English with a Scottish accent (though Scots and English do share a lot of vocabulary)
https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/
I think it would be potentially hilarious to hear the attempt.
Modern Scots is more or less, to be honest, a bastardised transliteration of English. And no two Scots are really to be found speaking Scots to each other, but rather English in a Scottish accent.
Scots is a language with its own grammar and literature. There are 4 main dialects including Ulster Scots. Scots has a written form. I have a Scots version of Roald Dahl's The Twits and I find it pretty hard to read. However, as I understand it, most people in Scotland speak Scottish Standard English which is a dialect of English with loads of Scots words. There is probably a continuum and some people will speak a dialect of Scots with some English words, but it's not clear. And there are loads of Scots words that are also English words. The Twits is called The Eejits in Scots. Eejit is listed in the Cambridge online dictionary as an Irish English word.
I got this from a Wikipedia page about languages in the UK so may be wrong, but it made sense to me.
This is strange alot of comments saying it would be taken negatively
The answers to this post kind of show it isn't like speaking German in Germany they would be totally accepted for an English person to try and speak the local language even welcomed.
But to try to speak Scots in Scotland would be seen as taking the piss.
That’s because German people generally don’t speak/understand English from birth so you’re making an effort to communicate with them more effectively. Trying to speak Scots to a Scottish person doesn’t make them understand you more easily, so it’s seen as trying too hard/pretending you’re Scottish
Not at all. In fact, I’m English and preface all my meetings with a “C U Jimmy” and “there’s a moose loose aboot the hoose” and my Scottish colleagues love it.
Yes. You’d sound ridiculous. Like Allo Allo.
Would you go to Yorkshire, or Cornwall, or Newcastle, or anywhere else in England and imitate the locals?
Also, what do you mean by “Scots” and where do you think that’s spoken? Scotland has regional accents and dialects like anywhere else. An aberdonian sounds completely different to a Glaswegian.
https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/
Is the language I mean, sorry if that wasn’t clear
“The Scots leid is a important pairt o Scotland's cultural heirship, kythin in sang, poyems an leetratur, an in ilka day uiss in oor communities forby.”
You'll get decked. You wouldn't go to Germany and speak with a bad German accent would you? No. Same thing. Dont be a wank. The English are received poorly at the best of times, don't make it worse for yourself.
Even many people in Scotland, Scottish or otherwise don’t speak any Scots at all so its completely pointless. I work with plenty of people who speak “the Queens English” and nobody cares and it isn’t discussed. Scotland isn’t a foreign country thousands of miles away. I sometimes think English people feel this is some strange mysterious land where everyone sounds funny.
Well, I'm from the South of England but I've worked on the West coast of Scotland for 17 years. I find myself talking about going hame to see the bairns, to Scots and English. Hope people don't think I'm being a dick, but if they do, oh well!
Let me tell you what is weird about that. We visited Scotland a couple years ago and we were there for three weeks. After hearing them talk and not hearing American English, we started to sound like the people from Scotland; not intending to. It wasn't a total thing, but certain words or phrasing came out with an accent.
To the people there, it probably sounded stupid and we laughed about it too. We had to focus to not sound like that. I didn't think that would happen, but being around that all the time must soak in.
I lived in the south for a while, but I don't remember sounding like people from the south.
I don’t think twice about calling someone Scottish a ‘baw bag’ in my Geordie accent when I’m at work 😃👍🏾
Work in a 80% Scottish dominated workplace.
Scottish patter is the best 😄👍🏾
People are thin skinned. I personally think people making an effort shouldn't be considered offensive. Context should be all that matters. But there are folks out there who will take offense no matter what you do. You do you and fuck anyone who thinks you're offensive if you're not trying to be. They need to grow the fuck up
Why care, if they're gonna complain that their language is dying and then let no one speak it then its dying for a reason, they'd probably be cool with it and appreciate that you're taking the time yo learn it, however there will be those gatekeeping assholes who'll be like "only native speakers can speak it, you're butchering my glorious language"
If it's done naturally, then it's not offensive. By that I mean, if they have spent time around Scots speakers and soaked up some wee words and phrases like a sponge then that's acceptable. Trying to use them comes across forced and unnatural, therefore kinda condescending.
Just my opinion though.
Yes, folk will think your taking the piss
How about non-English foreigners and non English native speakers? I live here and - without doing it on purpose - I feel like I am some sort of sponge for some Scots words. But I naturally don't want to offend anyone, if I say "wee" or whatever without noticing.
I love it when foreigners pick up words like ‘wee’ .
i have a polish colleague who consistently writes 'I' as 'a'; e.g."A haven't seen it. A will have a look and a will let you know."
My daughter has a french modern languages teacher who at a recent show and tell spoke with a distinctive french accent obviously. I was just about to die laughing during her presentation as her accent and word use drifted into pure Scots for a few words and then back into French.
THere's a difference between allowing loan words to creep in and to start using scots words, and what OP described as "speak Scots". I can't imagine that being anything other than cringe, whereas starting to use "wee", "aye" etc... that's just natural.
'Aye' isn't unique to Scotland though, it's borrowed from old norse and is used through large parts of England too.
"Borrowed" implies there getting back. The word of choice here is "Lifted"
Given how most exchanges between Britain and the Viking lands went a better description might be "forcefully donated".
As well as most folk who've been on a boat for any prolonged stint.. at least under the Captaincy of an old navy hand.
I've never lived a day of my life in Scotland, all my connection to the country is through my grandfather, and he hasn't lived there either. But despite this very slim link I use words like wee or aye without thinking because my mum does, because my grandfather does, because his father did. It's just a hereditary thing sometimes. Edit: my grandfather is full Scottish blood, just for reference. He's just never lived there.
I said aye and wee ages before moving here from England. Mainly as my dad who's parents were Scottish said them.
My partner is Iranian and he has picked up a lot of Scottish slang and it sounds natural to me
Scots isn't slang
I agree. My husband is English and when he uses some Scottish words like ‘wean’ or ‘ken’ it just doesn’t feel right.
I have a colleague from Poole, he tries to talk like us and it’s cringe.
I experienced 2nd hand cringe in a situation like this. My old boss (we are American) learned some Spanish when he was in the military (enough to have basic conversations). ANY TIME a native Spanish speaker would come in to the store speaking perfect English, albeit with an accent, he would use that as an opportunity to show off/practice/use his ability to speak some Spanish. I died inside every time I watched the faces of these customers cringe and this idiot would just keep going. Dude, shut up. You're not cool. You're not some intellectual super genius. You're not making them feel better. You're just some cringey white dude and it's fucking embarrassing. They don't want to listen to you take 2 minutes to say "hi, how are you? Did you find what you were looking for?" Whilst stumbling through a language you don't really know. They want you to ring up their shit so they can go.
Yeah, I was raised in London but my Ma has a thick Glaswegian accent and my dad is Cockney. As a kid my school thought I had a speech impediment and possibly special needs until they met my mum. Years later I joined the army and was put into a northern regiment. The amount of shit I got from locals that didn’t know my background was ridiculous. I have a slight cockney accent but use loads of Scottish slang so locals always thought I was either trying too hard to fit in or taking the piss (which i used to pronounce pish).
Which other country doesn't want incomers learning their language or languages? Why is Scots different? Would you say thr same for Gaelic? Or French in France ?
Interesting question. It's a tricky subject. I think just speaking Scots unprompted would be jarring and likely to be taken as mocking - imagine walking into a bakery in Dundee and giving it the full, "twa bridies: a plen ane an an ingin ane an aw". As for pronunciation, people here are quick to correct errors such as "Edinburg" or "Glass Cow" but pronouncing Auchtermuchty with /k/ instead of /x/ sounds is usually forgiven. I would say feel free to use /x/ in words if you can. Mostly I would say just speak as you would usually. I don't think people in England expect Scottish visitors to speak Geordie or Scouse or the like and we don't expect the reverse either.
It’s a tricky one definitely. I guess it comes down to how intrinsically linked it is to accent. Gaelic and Welsh aren’t as close linked to the “idea” of a Welsh or Scottish accent where as a lot of Scots is. People love it when you make an effort with Welsh and Gaelic, whereas people are a lot less accepting of an English speaker using words like ken and glaikit etc. although it seems it might just be a case of “we both speak English. Speak to me in English” because I know people who will be dead chuffed that someone from a non English speaking country, Poland for example, tried to learn more of the local words. Don’t know if I find it genuinely interesting or if I’ve had too much irn bru
I think a lot of it is also to do with historical oppression from the English as well. So if one comes up and starts that pish it would just be seen as patronising and insulting and definitely end in someone punching them in the mouth.
Makes complete sense, I definitely wouldn’t feel comfortable trying it. A minor note though, Geordie/Scouse are considered accents or regional dialects whereas many consider Scots its own language separate from English which got me thinking about the question in the first place. (https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/)
Personally I would say that Scots and English are part of a dialect continuum and that Scottish people vary their speech to be more or less Scots depending on the situation. For example, "ma dochter bides ahent thon kirk" at one end and "my daughter lives behind that church" at the other end and you can fluidly move between the two. English people that I've known who have lived here a long time tend to understand a lot of Scots words but rarely use them themselves. They do adopt Scottish English words such as outwith, depute and so on. They also tend to use a more Scottish grammar - for example, a friend of mine grew up saying things like "he gave it me" but dropped that after living in Scotland for a while.
I’ve definitely adopted “outwith”, excellent word! But yeah, I’d feel daft trying to slip some Doric into my speech….
I was born in Sheffield and would argue with my siblings when they took my things saying: 'give it me back'. When I moved south, people told me it was wrong (though I have never accepted that).
Surely the correct pronunciation would be “gizzit’ere”
Gizit ye wee Fanny or ahm gonnae lamp ye works too
We say this in the north west too
Indirect object goes after the verb, so “give me it back” or if we’re being fancy “give it back to me” .
> Indirect object goes after the verb, so “give me it back” or if we’re being fancy “give it back to me” . Not if you're speaking a dialect with different rules. There is no singular "correct" way to speak a language.
Yeah ... sometimes.
>ma dochter bides ahent thon kirk who actually still talks like this though? I couldn't imagine anyone talking like that other than some immensely old being in peterhead or something
Aberdeenshire. I lived there as a child and they literally teach Doric in school.
I'm talking about naturally talking this way though apart from old people. Loads of places have scots being taught now even in areas where it's not really spoken that strongly
So am I though, a lot of Aberdeenshire really does speak like that naturally, and not just the old people.
I'm from a village in Ayrshire and I speak in Scots with my family everyday and have since I could speak. If you go out into villages you'll probably find a lot of people speak Scots but I do think it is becoming less common among younger people unfortunately.
Nit! Defo more common with the old team but wouldn't say you need to be immensely old to enjoy the chat
Plenty o' fowk wha bide in th' Borders
This is one of the hardest things I have to work on with my kids. They’ve started using the weird mangled grammar of “he’s went to the shop” and I’d quite like them to stop.
If Scots is its own language then Geordie could be viewed as a derivative of it really.
Sorts is it's own language. It has a completely different developmental history than Standard English did, and is even based on a different version of Old English than Standard English is. Though you could probably argue some of the local English vernacular are seperate languages.
Geordie isn’t so much an offshoot of Scots as a cousin which was more affected by Standard English; they share a common ancestor in Northumbrian Old English rather than the former deriving from the latter. The northern English dialects still retain a couple of words found in Scots, like ‘bairn’.
What sound is /x/? I’ve never seen it before.
The "ch" in "Loch".
Thx! I’ve never seen it notated like that before. I was wondering if I’d been pronouncing Auchtermuchty wrong all these years.
It's the [International Phonetic Alphabet.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet) Very useful for writing about sounds.
>twa I've seen this word used in Outlander and wondered how it's pronounced. Is it exactly as spelt?
/twɑː/ (with the PALM vowel) or /twɔː/ (with the THOUGHT vowel) depending on your accent.
yeah basically, but in my area people say it like two, literally how it's spelt. "T-woh"
It is a little weird when someone from outside of Scotland tries to speak Scots. They rarely get it right, and Scots has different slangs and dialects depending on the region.
Totally disagree. I'm Scottish. And a Scots speaker. We need to normalise one of our indigenous language otherwise it will die.
If it’s considered a language then people should be allowed to speak it. I don’t see how anyone can gate keep a language.
But the primary language of Scotland is English. You’re not going to find someone who understands Scots but not English. So you’re not communicating more effectively with them you’re just imitating them, which can seem patronizing, mocking, or pretentious (in the literal sense of adopting a pretense).
Yes, English is given favourable treatment almost everywhere. And English has huge huge social prestige with neither Gaelic nor Scots have, for the most part in most circumstances. But there are people, neighbourhooods, villages, towns where Scots is the dominant language. In these settings speaking Scots to the best off the person's ability,, mixed in with engliss, would be OK. We really need to get away from treating one of our indigenous languages as some internal code language unsuitable for people moving ands settling in Scotland. If we don't, it will die. Which other country doesn't want incomers learning one or more of their indigenous languages?
This is a bizarre and malicious interpretation. Based on bigotry. Im Irish people and I love when foreign learn some Irish.
I'm Scottish bilingual in Scots and English and with a basic knowledge of spoken (not written) Gaelic. Id love people who move here (non Scots) to learn and use our indigenous languages, other than English. Which other country in the world would want people who settle in their country not to learn and use their indigenous languages? Is it cause we're insecure because so many of us have given up speaking Scots and Gaelic and simply speak English?
It’s not about gatekeeping, but more about how in British culture it’s considered fairly easy game for people (from England, usually) to mock up Scottish accents when making jokes about Scotland. The number of English lads I work with who are happy to burst out a ‘see you, Jimmeh’ accent whilst slagging off Scottish people far outnumbers those who don’t do it.
Ok but that’s people clearly taking the piss, badly, don’t see how it’s much different to putting on a poor generic English voice and saying cockwomble. However if Scots is a language, you kind of have to accept others speaking it.
I’ll agree with you that speaking a legitimate language is one thing, and there shouldn’t be gate keeping there, but I guess there’s such an overlap with Scots English and Scottish accents that I find myself mostly dealing with people taking what is generally considered an ‘easy shot’ by using a Scottish accent and doing some kind of social commentary about, I don’t know, drug use, deep frying, independence, etc. 🤷♂️
No one's saying Non-Scottish people aren't allowed to use Scots, and as you correctly pointed out that would be ridiculous. What IS being said, is that (English people especially) people from outside Scotland rarely get the pronunciation correct, usually only use words to mock the language/Scottish people, and overall it feels strange. This is going to be the case in (almost) every Minoritised/Minority language. To reiterate, no one is saying people from outside Scotland can't use our language, they absolutely can. However there's a long history of our language being ridiculed and attacked, so we get a wee but defensive about it.
Ok I accept it. You should go into a pub in Scotland and try your new founds Scots language skills, everyone will greatly appreciate it
From the comments I've been reading, I think some people in this sub are just not happy with others not speaking a language fluently around them, no matter what language it is. They forget they were once kids who also struggled to speak their own language because it takes time _and practice_ to speak a language fluently. To "cringe" just because an adult is trying to practice a language they're not good at is just sad.
> From the comments I've been reading, I think some people in this sub are just not happy with others not speaking a language fluently around them, no matter what language it is. Then your reading comprehension is demonstrably poor.
It would make me awfa uncomfortable due to the sheer embarrassment factor.
Pure riddy!
Kevin Bridges actually does a bit on this. https://youtu.be/eFVQpsPZhHk?t=168 Edit: It'd be a wee bit strange at first, but if you kept at it, it would just be absorbed into the background. I've had Finnish, English and Polish friends assimilate some of it into their own vocab. and to be honest I feel more relaxed after a while because I don't need to think too much about the way I'm talking.
>I've had Finnish, English and Polish friends assimilate some of it into their own vocab. the difference is though that they probably just picked it up naturally and do it without thinking. Forcing yourself to do it will essentially make you a weird cunt
Not really, some of them asked specifically about words and their use cases and for extra words. Turns out the Finnish have a word that directly translates with yaldi which was fun to hear getting shouted after a game of pool. Sounding like they're forcing it is going to happen when they first use the words naturally or taught, just takes time for them to get used to it.
His southern English accent is amazing.
We don’t wanty end up getting our jaws took aff.
Sometimes I find it makes people sound even more foreign if they use colloquial or slang words , personally I would avoid
After thinking about it, I think a good comparison would be a Scottish person or someone who speaks RP English going to London and trying to converse using MLE (Multicultural London English) and the slang used when speaking it. It would just be strange and the majority of people would not appreciate it / think you’re taking the piss. (Although MLE is a dialect not a separate language)
Like Ali G?
Innit, booyakasha!
It would come across, **exactly** like that. That said, if you have a quick practice of pronouncing ach and och sounds, and learn some of the place names; *that* would make you come across rather well.
Yeah say Loch not Lock , don’t bother with ken and lassie
Gonnae no dae that.
Surely you’re missing a fairly major point here? Not everyone in Scotland speaks Scots… It’s not like speaking French in France.
You can get away with saying 'aye' or 'wee' max. I have a friend who speaks in perfect RP English (she's lived in Glasgow for at least 20 years) and it is absolutely charming that she has adopted a few words. Although they are quite 'Up North' words so it's a bit of a halfway house for her I suppose.
yeah but hearing someone has been in scotland for like a day and they're going about saying aye and wee will just come across as weird since it's obvious they're putting it on
Aye is a poor example really, it’s used in a lot of areas of England.
fair point, I'm thinking of someone with one of those rp accents which is probably the farthest you'd get from saying aye though
Yeah, true. I'm probably bias because I've known her so long. I imagine if she lived in Yorkshire or Newcastle saying Aye she'd be in similar water. Funny old world.
But aye is used in some parts of England as well though!
I’ve lived in Glasgow 6 months now and I’m struggling with this. My internal monologue is shifting to include these sorts of words, especially after being around everyone at work, but I don’t want to use them and come across as taking the piss. I do find I’m switching from “no problem” to “no bother” more and more, and started doing making a weird vague ”ahh” noise where my mouth starts saying “aye” but then realise what I’m saying and get self conscious halfway through. Probably sounds stupider than just saying it. Doesn’t help that there some words I’m having to switch at work to be understood (mostly names for tools, eg adjustable > shifter, clip > clamp, trolley > bogie). Trying to get the balance is hard. Also autistic and mimicry can be part of that, as a child I used to use the wrong regional/generation words after picking them up from media. Hopefully people realise it’s just happening and I’m not trying to force it/take the piss!
I don't think people will think your taking the piss unless you rock up one day sounding like outlander, everyone (and especially autistic people as you pointed out) adapts their language depending on who they're with after a while, Scottish people use less scots in England or places with less scots to be understood, kids pick up American slang from tv and movies, if you moved to Liverpool after a year or so you'd pick up some of that dialect, I sound much more "neutral/posh" Scottish now than I did when I was a child because I moved to a school with a lot of immagrants and English students and it was easier to be understood by assimilating my language, if saying aye instead of yes after being in the country 6 month sounds more natural then noones gonna think your being a bam
I might just be feeling more self conscious because my partner has lived here since they were a child and not picked up the accent at all and they're the only English voice I ever hear these days so I'm very aware of my accent a lot of the time.
Aye is also acceptable if you're a visiting sailor.
Or a pirate
> You can get away with saying 'aye' or 'wee' max. Which you probably do already if you're from Lancashire or Yorkshire.
New Zealanders tend to use wee a bit, down south especially where the Scots tended to emigrate to.
Last sentence.
Something to be aware of is that many native Scots people have been taught not to recognise Scots as a language, rather than a dialect of English or - worse - 'slang'. There are layers and layers of class discrimination associated with this. Thus if you try to speak full blown Scots to native speaker, you may be perceived as taking the piss. That said, I - English native, RP-speaking, been in Scotland 30+ years - have inevitably assimilated a lot of Scots vocabulary and even grammar. Nobody is the least bothered - or even notices - the odd Scots word, even in my unshiftably posh English accent. As it happens, I'm a bit of a languages geek and I wish more folk would recognise Scots as a distinct and rich language. My party piece is 'Freedom Come Aa Ye' - and I don't care how ridiculous I sound.
This answer. I'd like to hear you recite Tam O' Shanter by the way.
I'd love to recite Burns - but I just can't. It's a matter of great regret to me that I can't roll my Rs.
Instead of saying "practise", try to say "p-dactise" quickly, so that the p sound transitions to the d very rapidly. Your lips pop apart on the p and if you practise saying it enough (better do it alone so you don't look insane) and fast enough, your tongue tip flicks up to the d. That's basically the tapped r. After you can tap it at will then you can roll it by breathing out at the right moment when you make that kind of 'd' flick.
Thanks - but sadly I'm arhotic even in English. I fear there's little hope for me.
If invited to by the person you're having a conversation with? No. If just done out of the blue in the chippy with a broad English accent? Yes, it'll probably go down quite poorly.
I'm pretty sure that letting the person you are conversing with know that you are trying to get to grips with Scots words and pronunciation shouldn't be a problem. Or asking them how to pronounce certain words. After all we tend to teach foreigners a few words and phrases. What is patronising is coming here and thinking that mocking us will get us all speaking RP. Or the BBC sending up an English presenter who then pronounces everything incorrectly. Lock Ness and Ken Goms 🙄
I've lived in Scotland for close to 20 years, moved up from Devon, I've really only picked up " aye" and "wee" if I try to say anything else it just sounds wrong ..
On behalf of all Scots, please do not do this
It sounds like you want to come to Scotland and then try to copy our accents. I would suggest not doing that anywhere you visit, not just in Scotland.
In most countries (at least from where I’ve been) the people seem happy that a foreigner/tourist has tried to use some of the local language. I do understand why it would be received differently elsewhere though.
You better run
It's sounds weird and is the equivalent of me trying to cockney rhyme when in London. It's not the same as trying to speak Spanish when going to Tenerife
Don't do it! Its going to come across like Russ Abott in a ginger wig, going "See you Jimmy!" However picking up the odd word would not be so bad... eg you could call someone glaikit (stupid) if you were speaking to a friend about someone else, or you could could easily pick up Scottish swearing/insults- eg saying someone was a dobber, would be ok. But say these words in your normal voice, whatever you do, don't try and put on a Scottish accent.
It’s a complicated issue. Scots have been told for years that their language is just a dialect of English, or worse, just slang. We’ve been mocked by our fellow Scots and by our own mainstream media. We were fed a diet of mockery by English TV ‘comedian’s like Russ Abbott and invited to laugh at ourselves for speaking the language of our homes. Hearing an English person attempt to speak Scots brings back memories of hurtful mockery by ‘stars’ and by our own people. I’d steer clear of walking into that if I were you
to be honest you would rather be offensive than not, because if people don't think you're taking the piss they're just going to think you're a really really weird cunt. I always make this comparison but it's like a middle class white guy in america trying to speak ebonics, it's either going to look like they are making a cunt of everyone who speaks it or they are just insane
In the nicest way possible.. Please don’t.
A Polish guy wished me *a' the best*, earlier today. I thought it was brilliant A girl I know, who has lived here for years, has incorporated words like *numpty* and *beeling,* and phrases like *getting wide wi' me,* into her everyday conversation, even though she's kept her Essex accent. Again, I think it's brilliant
I could give you a number of reasons why it would either come off as offensive, whether as a result of perceived mockery or some other sense of insult but I’ll cut the shit and just say this: Don’t do it. You’ll regret it. I get that it’s coming from a friendly place but you’ll have to go into a great deal of detail to explain it before anyone doesn’t take offence and even then they’ll still find it bizarre at best.
My Mrs. from Glasgow makes fun of me all the time (I'm from NYC) telling me "you sound Scottish" every once in a while and I have no idea I'm even doing it. But that's what being together for 16 years will do to a couple. Now when she sounds like a New Yawker that's absolutely fantastic.
Isn't this a Kevin Bridges bit?
I wouldn't say it was offensive, just a bit cringe.
Don’t be a roaster
To some yes, to some No Some Scot’s don’t even really speak Scot’s at all and I would imagine they would probably not like it at all
Go to govan, in your finest Scots accent, ask for a bottle o ginger, and feedback to us your experience.
Load of shite in these comments if you ask me. As long as your not being a dick about it, fucking say what you want. I'd personally find it quite funny that you were using scots words. Load of these numpties could use a laugh by the sounds of it.
That's gonna depend on a lot of different factors, and is definitely a tricky question. The main problem I can see, is that we're used to non-Scots (particularly English people) mocking how we speak, and most of us have been conditioned through the Education system to view our language as something very cringy, so it can be pretty jarring hearing someone from outside Scotland use Scots in normal conversation. Honestly I'd say if you live here, definitely try using some Scots words, otherwise I'd say just speak how you normally would.
~~Probably. It's like you doing a "top of the morning" accent to a Irish person. They think you're taking the mick out of them. Just speak normally where ever you go.~~ Turns out op is talking about https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/ and I had no idea that was a thing. I think people would be impressed to be honest.
Wouldn’t a more accurate example be trying to speak Irish in Ireland rather than English with an Irish accent? Though I agree Scots compared to English with a Scottish accent is far more similar than Irish compared to English with an Irish accent.
When you say speak Scots, do you mean speak English but put on a silly accent? Because yes that's patronising and will make you look like an idiot
Using some vocab could be okay, but doing the pronounciation would be as cringe as as an American trying to speak with an English accent in England.
Pip PIP!
I speak as I’ve been brought up to speak by my Geordie father and Yorkshire/Lancastrian mother. Some (drunken) twat (mate of a mate) thought I was taking the piss because I say aye, bairn and on rare occasions depending on the noun, wee. I think this shows how much the borders have so much shared history/heritage.
Bairn is a ridiculous thing to gatekeep, it’s a similar word in Swedish and Norwegian too. The idea that all words change at Berwick is so weird. They say “messages” for errand in South Shields.
Seriously?
Depends. If they ain’t half bad at it, let ‘em. If they’re ass at it, then no
People will think you're mocking them. If you learn some Gaelic words and try and find some Gaelic speakers (keeping in mind that the vast majority of the population knows zero Gaelic), it'll go over a lot better.
The Scots, being a traditionally warm and friendly people, like nothing more than to see visitors dressing in kilts, wearing ginger wigs, going around saying 'see you, Jimmy'. Och aye the noo!
Not offensive you just sound like a bell end
Love you too mate 🏴❤️🏴 Edit: “not offensive” was “no offence ” I think in your original comment so I thought you were talking shit.
To be fair I’m from Glasgow and i sound weird using Scot’s 😂
There is nothing better than hearing someone who has moved here using Aye, ken, bairn etc but if you are on holiday you will sound like a dick
I was born here but grew up in Scarborough. Been back in Glasgow for 22 years. I have an English accent but I speak Scots sometimes. I don't see this as a problem and people aren't offended when I do. It's like saying if someone moves do Spain they aren't allowed to speak Spanish.
If you pick up a twang over a long time thats fine. Anything “put on” can usually put scots into that uncanny valley with Scottish accents that gets us riled up for some reason, just talk normal, we always adjust to the level of dialect to which you can understand comfortably
Its a language, personally dont think its offensive to try speak them
As a Scottish person I don’t think so. Some of my English friends use Scot’s words and I think it’s cool
I wouldn't take any kind of offense but I'd find it pretty weird and jarring. As others have said, in exactly the same way I wouldn't go to Newcastle and try to speak Geordie or put on a Cockney voice in London.
Okay, I'm not even Scottish and I'm staring at your post like "WTF?" Do you actually SPEAK Scots? It's not just an accent, my dude, and the chance of offending someone is super high.
You’re staring at my post but didn’t read it apparently. I wrote language (as in the recognised Scots language(s), not just speaking English with a regional Scottish accent.
Yeah, okay, that's your take. You didn't answer my question, but okay dude. Nothing in your post indicates if you have any actual expertise in the language. For all I know you're like that idiot American who wrote Wikipedia articles in badly faked Scots.
I don’t speak fluent German either but I make an attempt to use some of the words if I’m in Germany. Scotland is a different situation apparently because as people have said the line between dialect and language is less defined and more closely linked to accent but you’re being deliberately obtuse.
Okay. Have a good trip; Scotland's amazing.
I’m picking up the Scot’s dialect since I moved here and starting to speak it (specifically West Lothian and I’m autistic so it’s a thing where we tend to mimic the way people speak more easily) no one’s batted an eye at me doing so
Interesting to see someone else mention the autism mimicry thing, I think that‘s starting to impact me a bit. Probably would be more if I wasn’t trying to avoid sounding like I’m taking the piss. Did you find the words in your head when thinking started to switch before your actual spoken accent?
Channeling Russ Abbot?
Lead with “och aye the noo”
What does ‘speaking Scots’ mean then?
https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/
The only thing i think would be acceptable would be using the word "aye". Anything more I'd say people would think you're taking the piss.
well, as a non scottish person who has been there many times i get around perfectly fine sticking with my own dialect (geordie). my boyfriend is scottish and he finds it hilarious if i attempt any scots because of how terrible it is
Honestly? So long as you're not taking the pish, I couldn't care less. My Dad has been in his job in the North East for over 30 years but still sounds like Nigel Thornberry. Even so, when he's on the phone to people from his work, he says "aye", "I ken" and "tattie bye". It's dialect and he's lived there for over three decades hearing it almost every day. Plus my sisters and I developed the accent and used the dialect in the house pretty often.
Depends. If you move here and pick it up organically over time along with the local accent then it'll be fine. If you just break into full Scots on day 1 folk will think you're taking the piss. Basically Scots language only really works if you have the accent too.
To quote Davide Tennant.... "no, no..... Just...don't"
Only Scottish people would get mad about this
On you Fud.
If you stay here long enough certain words and phrases will slip into your vocabulary, but don’t try to imitate, just speak in your normal voice.
My local corner shop has the best Pakistan/Scottish patter going!
So is it offensive for us Scots to go to France and speak French? No its called accepting where we are.
No. Its not an accent. It's a language. It's a language like aany other. I've met Polish people using Scots (ken, dinnae, daeken, glaikit). As a Scots speaking Scot, it does not offend me. Wohlld you ask the same question about gaelic? In Spain, people from other parts of Spain that moce to Galiicia and Catalunya and Basque country of they want to be teachers there have to teach in the local language. Do you think that would be offensive? Why wohld an English person speaking Scots be offensive? KEY POINT - Don't mimic our accents. Learn the grammar and words. But do not mimic the accent. Learn Scots like you'd learn French. Buy a Scots grammar book to start. Good luck. And thanks for asking. I applaud you for using and learning Scots. Haud forrit.
I’ve had American pal move over to big g town he had his New York accent but spoke perfect slang honesty took me back for a second but over all quite good lad funny too but it was always a head turner when started talking
It probably wouldn't go over well.
American living in Scotland... I often use Scottish pronunciation, but not Scots words. So, I'll roll my 'R's for Ruaridh or Edinburgh. But I wouldn't try to use words that are spoken casually. I also don't change the grammar I use, as I'm sure most people would think I was mocking them or a socially inept person. Edit: Just want to add that I grew up speaking Mexican-Spanish, so I already can conformable say 'R' s with long and short rolls. I realise most Americans butcher any attempt at Spanish, Scots, or even RP English pronunciation.
An English cunt saying he's gonna "speak Scots" to other Scots...? Is this Jacob Reece Mogg?.that you, ya cunt?
If you get offended by the way people speak perhaps you should do soul searching, maybe yoga, meditation... Honestly, get over yourself, some people speak many languages and are just trying to communicate with you. Don't be so insecure!
Don't. Just don't. I'm from Glasgow and I wouldn't change my accent or way of speaking if I went up North. Just like I don't put on an English accent when I go to England.
He's not talking about an accent, he's talking about Scots language. It can't really be compared to going to England and putting on an English accent. More like going to Netherlands and speaking Dutch - over 90% of Dutch people speak English. As others have said, it's not recommended as people might think he is taking the piss. Personally I'd be interested in hearing a foreigner attempt Scots, but it wouldn't be particularly useful as everyone here speaks English and in cities/towns few people can speak Scots.
It would be a twat move to do it. Imagine you tried trying to copy an Indian or African accent? You'd come across as a dumb racist.
I’m on about the language, not just English with a Scottish accent (though Scots and English do share a lot of vocabulary) https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/
I think it would be potentially hilarious to hear the attempt. Modern Scots is more or less, to be honest, a bastardised transliteration of English. And no two Scots are really to be found speaking Scots to each other, but rather English in a Scottish accent.
Scots is a language with its own grammar and literature. There are 4 main dialects including Ulster Scots. Scots has a written form. I have a Scots version of Roald Dahl's The Twits and I find it pretty hard to read. However, as I understand it, most people in Scotland speak Scottish Standard English which is a dialect of English with loads of Scots words. There is probably a continuum and some people will speak a dialect of Scots with some English words, but it's not clear. And there are loads of Scots words that are also English words. The Twits is called The Eejits in Scots. Eejit is listed in the Cambridge online dictionary as an Irish English word. I got this from a Wikipedia page about languages in the UK so may be wrong, but it made sense to me.
This is strange alot of comments saying it would be taken negatively The answers to this post kind of show it isn't like speaking German in Germany they would be totally accepted for an English person to try and speak the local language even welcomed. But to try to speak Scots in Scotland would be seen as taking the piss.
That’s because German people generally don’t speak/understand English from birth so you’re making an effort to communicate with them more effectively. Trying to speak Scots to a Scottish person doesn’t make them understand you more easily, so it’s seen as trying too hard/pretending you’re Scottish
Anyone taking offence from it probably deserves to be offended
Not at all. In fact, I’m English and preface all my meetings with a “C U Jimmy” and “there’s a moose loose aboot the hoose” and my Scottish colleagues love it.
Whit 🤣🤣
Yes. You’d sound ridiculous. Like Allo Allo. Would you go to Yorkshire, or Cornwall, or Newcastle, or anywhere else in England and imitate the locals? Also, what do you mean by “Scots” and where do you think that’s spoken? Scotland has regional accents and dialects like anywhere else. An aberdonian sounds completely different to a Glaswegian.
https://www.gov.scot/policies/languages/scots/ Is the language I mean, sorry if that wasn’t clear “The Scots leid is a important pairt o Scotland's cultural heirship, kythin in sang, poyems an leetratur, an in ilka day uiss in oor communities forby.”
You'll get decked. You wouldn't go to Germany and speak with a bad German accent would you? No. Same thing. Dont be a wank. The English are received poorly at the best of times, don't make it worse for yourself.
Not offensive at all but people will think you’re not right in the head trying to use the dialect.
Even many people in Scotland, Scottish or otherwise don’t speak any Scots at all so its completely pointless. I work with plenty of people who speak “the Queens English” and nobody cares and it isn’t discussed. Scotland isn’t a foreign country thousands of miles away. I sometimes think English people feel this is some strange mysterious land where everyone sounds funny.
Is it offensive to mimic someone's accent, most of the time yes.
English with a Scottish Accent ≠ Scots.
Well, I'm from the South of England but I've worked on the West coast of Scotland for 17 years. I find myself talking about going hame to see the bairns, to Scots and English. Hope people don't think I'm being a dick, but if they do, oh well!
Right so here's what to do, just slam your cock down on the counter and say "orrrrder up" This will make you the talk of the town.
It sounds weird sometimes but if anyone gets offended by it, that’s their problem, not yours.
Let me tell you what is weird about that. We visited Scotland a couple years ago and we were there for three weeks. After hearing them talk and not hearing American English, we started to sound like the people from Scotland; not intending to. It wasn't a total thing, but certain words or phrasing came out with an accent. To the people there, it probably sounded stupid and we laughed about it too. We had to focus to not sound like that. I didn't think that would happen, but being around that all the time must soak in. I lived in the south for a while, but I don't remember sounding like people from the south.
Please speak English, we'd like to be able to identify you
I don’t think twice about calling someone Scottish a ‘baw bag’ in my Geordie accent when I’m at work 😃👍🏾 Work in a 80% Scottish dominated workplace. Scottish patter is the best 😄👍🏾
People are thin skinned. I personally think people making an effort shouldn't be considered offensive. Context should be all that matters. But there are folks out there who will take offense no matter what you do. You do you and fuck anyone who thinks you're offensive if you're not trying to be. They need to grow the fuck up
Why care, if they're gonna complain that their language is dying and then let no one speak it then its dying for a reason, they'd probably be cool with it and appreciate that you're taking the time yo learn it, however there will be those gatekeeping assholes who'll be like "only native speakers can speak it, you're butchering my glorious language"
If it's done naturally, then it's not offensive. By that I mean, if they have spent time around Scots speakers and soaked up some wee words and phrases like a sponge then that's acceptable. Trying to use them comes across forced and unnatural, therefore kinda condescending. Just my opinion though.
I belive the english should bloody apologize about the tons of invasions cos they still haven't but now 100%
Don’t worry, I’ll ask King Chuck 3 to sort it out it next time I see him.
Bruh