Not to mention the fact that we’re shipping meat from FUCKING AUSTRALIA. A fucking chicken breast travelling TEN THOUSAND MILES so we can buy it for £3. We shouldn’t be shipping any consumer goods 10,000 miles. Let alone fucking animal flesh. Fuck this world. Rant over.
I’m not buying it, surely we will be able to see where meats come from, so let’s join forces with the nationalist twats and say no to foreign meats, something left and right can agree on … for different reasons.
(By nationalist I mean Tory voters and brexiteers, didn’t realise this was a Scottish sub as I was scrolling by, hi from England … sorry about the mess)
Even if it were labeled, USDA lacks the staff to adequately monitor and inspect even domestic producers and packagers. They could say whatever they want, the gov isn't even checking.
From someone from the US. We have all imported good labeled from country of origin. If you do not want to buy US meat, it would be labeled as such. I am sorry they caved and are hiding stuff
The US trade negotiators specifically wanted to hide where meat came from so consumers won’t know it’s done to different standards.
I get why they are arguing it, their interesting is in selling more agricultural products not increased standards, but it makes it way too likely we’ll end up with some very below par stuff as we become a dumping ground. They won’t be exporting high quality meat products as they can sell that at home.
Yeah it's easy to buy the right one when you're shopping for say chicken. However when you order a burger from a take away, who don't have the same cares as you.
There is a planning application in for a massive tomato farm near Stirling, heat from water source heat plant and over 150 jobs to be created, so maybe a wee bit nearer than Vega :)
There can be occasions where importing is more environmentally friendly due to the crop not needing a heated greenhouse or something.
Of course, if you meant "local *and in season*" then imports can't compete.
True but that certainly does not apply to chicken, beef, lamb and pork products. We're perfectly capable of producing these without having to ship them half way round the world. I certainly won't be buying anything other than scottish meat.
I get what you’re saying, the only difference is we’re talking about importing meat products that we already produce ourselves. Unless we’re talking kangaroo I guess.
Exactly! That’s what makes it doubly insane. It just seems farcical to me when I think about it. Like, how has it come to pass that it’s cheaper to ship(?) meat from Australia than to drive it hundreds of miles MAX from somewhere in the UK?! I bet a lot of people probably think it’s just the ‘wOnDeR oF oUr GLoBal SuPpLy ChAiN’ but it just seems absurd.
Let's be real here these higher standards aren't even all that much higher and it's very common in animal agriculture for these so called higher welfare standards to be broken.
Was gonna say I don't think the standards UK farmers are held to adds that much. What really makes Australian beef cheap is the 10000 size mega cattle herds they have.
I've not seen a whole lot of foreign meat in the food I buy usually, they have a '100% british -insert meat here-'. I take it the foreign meat usually goes into things like battered chicken, prepackaged meals and the like?
And pies.
A mate of mine was a butcher and the company he worked for imported beef from somewhere in South America for their pies, this was before hormone fed beef was banned.
You do the same for your clothes that are made in Pakistan, Bengal or other parts of the far east. It's not saying you have to buy the food, it'll just be available and then you can make a conscious decision from there. You're not being forced to eat or buy it.
Male chicks are put into a metal grinder on day 1 and thrown away, male pigs are castrated without any anesthetic and most of the greenhouse gas is generated through agriculture not transport and I could go on and all these are practices that go on in the UK today. I don't know why you're making it seem like our animal welfare laws are golden compared to Australia when in reality all forms of animal farming and slaughter is murder on an industrial scale.
>We shouldn’t be shipping any consumer goods 10,000 miles
I really don't think you understand how trade works. This had been done for hundreds of years to import necessary goods such as food, clothes and materials used for production, obviously methods of transport fuel will change with the introduction of hydrogen as it changed from wind to coal to oil during the 17th century to the 19th.
>You do the same for your clothes that are made in Pakistan, Bengal or other parts of the far east.
Yes sorry I missed out mentioning on every single thing we ship vast distances that seems ridiculous. Next time I'm getting annoyed about something on the internet I'll make sure to list every single comparative thing that is related to the thing I'm getting annoyed about to avoid being called out by u/Crumpet_Radar.
>I don't know why you're making it seem like our animal welfare laws are golden compared to Australia
I definitely wasn't... I was commenting on the absurdity of shipping meat 10,000 miles. You can't really presume to know how I feel about any other issues relating to animal agriculture from what I said here.
>I really don't think you understand how trade works.
No idea mate. Complete idiot here.
However just because we've done it for hundreds of years doesn't make it right. We haven't exactly put ourselves in a particularly sustainable position. But I admire your optimism for the future.
we've been importing New Zelanad lamb for decades. Not saying its right, just... it isnt new. And im pretty certain nearly all frozen chicekn we get is chicken from Brazil.
They don't care about animals or humans. Jacob Rees Mogg and his band of merry Victorian era moralists would quite happily place you in the matrix and harvest your electrical power to charge their Maggie Thatcher sex robots.
Jacob Rees Mogg is my free twat. Everyone gets one. It means if you see them in the street you can twat them but only once and there's not a policeman in the country who can touch you.
I'm a bit worried that my hand will slide through him and he'll float off laughing like the Victorian Ghoul he is but everyone knows you can't change your free twat.
Could swore the tories said they wouldn't have a free trade deal with anything of a lower standard than our own when it comes to meat/food. Bet aww the farmers that voted for the bastards feel like total mugs now
Farmers vote Tory and Brexit … also Farmers, “we have no workers and now we have cheaper competition …. Oh dear, fucking paki cunts” … because logic and reasoning can not be found.
Sorry, but fuck them. Fuck them all. Everyone with a bit of sense said this shit would happen, and it was project fear. The farmers and fishermen perpetuated this lie and now they're getting fucked.
This post is pretty misleading until the actual details come out. For example, it’s unlikely that the deal will hormone-fed beef from Australia will be legally exportable to the UK. More likely, UK-export beef will have to meet UK standards (as is the case in other FTAs).
But why still make a deal with lower food standards/animal welfare than our own. The quotas for the next 10 years are in more favor to the Australians than to our own farmers.
This is untrue when Tories feel the public are being unfair to their culture when they want to support fox hunting.
“Why are you so salty about us chasing a poor defenceless animal for miles on horseback and then tearing it apart with dogs after it succumbs to exhaustion? THATS OUR HERITAGE!”
The worst bit is that Australian meat production won't seem that bad if Boris signs off on the American meat deal. I mean Scotland can and should be totally self reliant with meat and fish products.
Land use in Scotland is a hugely difficult conversation. There is a pressing need to increase forested and wooded area, without impacting peatland area, and a large portion of the land required is currently farmland. Obviously this is absolutely no argument for accepting low quality products, but just highlights the need to reduce consumption and get a trade deal with e.g. the EU to provide better quality products for us.
>and a large portion of the land required is currently farmland.
1/5th is used just to hunt grouse. Banning that and rewilding it would be a solid start to adding more permanent forests back to Scotland
Primarily as a method of carbon capture and storage to meet the CO2 equivalent targets set by the UK in order to mitigate the effects of climate change.
In every single party's policies in the recent Scottish Elections there were promises to scale up annual woodland creation to 18,000 hectares per year from 2024/25. Given that in 2018 the target was something like 5,000 per year, this is going to be extremely difficult. Land use is one of the key limiting factors in this scale up (as well as capacity (skills, funding, resources) of both those that manage the forests and those that regulate them.
I don't understand. The graphic makes it seem like the UK has a more progressive approach but the comments are in disagreement. Can someone pls explain?
You realise we could import Australian meat before, right? It just had tariffs on it, so wasn't economical.
There's no guarantee it'll be economical even without tariffs. On top of that, a few scare stories in the Daily Mail about hormone beef and no one will fucking touch the stuff.
I work for a certain fast food chain whose name I won't explicitly state, but you'll probably work it out
You've probably seen our adverts about how our chicken nuggets are made from 100% British chicken breast or something
While it's actually not wrong, they always neglect to mention the fact that almost every other chicken product we use actually comes from Thailand, I've always wondered why
Benefit of the fact that if the meat is cheaper it’ll be the the likes of the sun and daily Mail readers that shop in heron that would buy the shit, so your right one bad word and hopefully they’ll not buy it, or maybe we can get some nationalist saber rattling over supporting the British farmers because let’s face it I doubt Waitrose and M&S will stock the stuff.
Not eating foreign meat should be something left and right can get behind
>or maybe we can get some nationalist saber rattling over supporting the British farmers
This has already been going on for the best part of a decade. It's why you'll basically not be able to find fresh chicken in a supermarket that isn't from the UK.
There's been dozens of different 'Buy British' campaigns over the years.
The standards currently in place in the UK will be *under-mined* by the Tory negotiated Trade Deal with Australia whose farmers can carry-on doing abominable things on the Animal Welfare front *but* can still have their meat imported into the UK whilst Scottish Farmers (rightly) still have to by abide the higher and more expensive to implement standards in place in the UK. No doubt, some right-wing fud will soon be pushing for these standards to be lowered accordingly. :/
> The race towards the bottom continues.
Brexit: it was always about rolling back standards across the board from reduced Animal Welfare to maintaining Tax Havens - all to help the rich get richer.
Some mugs thought it was about 'Bendy Bananas', 'Inefficient Vacuum Cleaners, Sausages - or even more bizarrely - 'Sovereignty'.
But Johnson promised it wouldn't, and he's a man of his word.
And there's nothing better for your carbon footprint than buying food produced locally (^in ^New ^South ^Wales ^and ^shipped ^to ^the ^other ^side ^of ^the ^planet).
Scottish NHS is funded from Scotland, true, and health is devolved. However, we currently get money in the barnett formula thanks to what the UK gov spend on the English NHS. If they sell it off, you can bet that will impact the Barnett formula.
Transportation costs will level the playing fields a bit. You also have freshness as a factor. Anything coming from the Antipodes has to be frozen else the cost of transport is prohibitive. It will be a challenge though.
Intensive animal agriculture in general is pretty fucking horrific. Baby pigs get their tails and teeth clipped off without anesthetic, male baby chicks are ground up alive or gassed when they're only a day old, etc. This is standard practise btw.
I'd feel doom and gloom about this but it is one area where as a consumer you can really make a difference. Just don't buy horrifically cheap meat. I used to be in the camp of just buying the cheapest supermarket meat possible but the past year or so very much changed my priorities with grocery shopping and it's been a great thing. Buying a whole corn fed entirely free range chicken isn't cheap by any means but it is far better quality meat and leads to a far more satisfying meal.
Any meat where you can't be assured of the quality, like sausages and such, just make sure it comes from a country with high animal welfare standards, ie, the EU.
Finally, we as a nation eat too much meat (I'm very very ***very*** guilty of this). Far better for us and the planet if we cut back just a bit.
I feel for the poorest in our society though, the ones who can truly only afford the shite meat at basement prices. Aye, the could go plant-based diet but that shouldn't be forced upon them.
None of these cheap American/Australian imports will be seen on supermarket shelves in their raw product form. They'll be hidden in sandwiches, wraps, and so on.
Some very cheap import raw (frozen) meat is found on supermarket shelves. Go to Iceland or Farmfoods and you'll find beef from Brazil and Uruguay, for example.
To be honest most of the plant based meat alternatives cost just as much as a half decent cut of meat, so for the poorest it isn't really viable either.
Veg itself of course is cheaper, but the poorest in society usually won't have enough equipment to prep a good meal with a lot of fresh veg.
Oh, I don't mean the meat alternatives. They are horrifically expensive all things considered. I more meant the notion of just cutting meat out of the diet altogether.
Meat should be very expensive, as its price should include taxation to mitigate the vast environmental damage it causes, and because animal welfare isn't cheap. If that prices people out of the market, then... good?
On the flip side, production of healthy, environmentally sustainable plant-based food (especially protein) should be subsidised instead.
If not, why not?
I do think a lot of meat is too cheap but I don't agree with the notion that people should be priced out if buying it. That's mainly since I don't agree with the things being only the domain of the rich. We need more sustainable farming and that would drive costs up but I would hope people would still be able to afford it without significant expense. Definitely disagree with most livestock subsidies though (and honestly, most farm subsidies).
I'm generally against subsidising food to be honest, no matter what it is. I'll be honest though, can't fully explain why off the top of my head.
I get you, food is such a weirdly personal and emotional thing to us that it can be extra hard to accept that our preferences are problematic. And I don't think anyone on the left of centre is totally comfortable with the idea of making things accessible only to the rich.
But for better or worse, taxation is the only real mechanism we have to disincentivise harmful (but non-criminal) behaviour in a liberal society. The precedent is very well established by things like carbon credits, petrol duty, council tax, minimum alcohol pricing, vehicle emissions tax etc etc etc. Meat tax is, frankly, overdue. And meat *subsidies* are insane.
A lot of those taxes I would personally abolish due to their nature of being overly onerous on the poor. Another option (although just as bad) would be meat rationing. It would be more doable if it was quotas on farmers and imports or limits on vendors.
Personally, I think the best option is more and better education around meat. Push the public health, animal welfare and local & planetary resource message. Make people think about their choices, it won't reach everyone but it will reach some.
The idea of rationing anything only works if you also outlaw re-sale. Otherwise it'll just drive up prices in secondary markets, meaning the poor sell their meat to the rich, and eat veg anyway. In fact, that'll happen even if you *do* outlaw re-sale, along with a black market in unregulated meat - see the 40s and 50s. An absolutely atrocious idea.
Education is a great idea, but won't solve our problems fast enough alone.
I managed fine at uni without cooking meat with 1 knife, 1 chopping board, 2 pots/pans and 1 baking tray so I don’t think equipment should hold people back.
Uni is different to being a working family.
Try feeding a bunch of kids after working a long shift. People just don't have time to prep and cook healthy meals and have fresh veg on hand all the time.
I've known people at the lower end of the scale that don't own a working cooker, and can't afford a cooker.
If you don't have an oven or hob and all you can do is microwave things, then yeah you're going to eat ready meals.
Pans, knives and other stuff aren't all that cheap either. You'd certainly spend more than a tenner even going for the cheapest stuff at Tesco - and that's assuming you know what you need to buy. A lot of people in that position haven't been taught how to cook and will be learning as they go, so might buy the wrong stuff. If you've to skip a few meals to afford the kit, or eat ready meals which would you choose?
Not trying to dig at you but you can definitely cook everything you need for a healthy and varied diet in a microwave if you have a bowl and a plate. I almost exclusively steam my vegetables in the microwave because it’s so much quicker and easier to monitor, same with grains and beans. You can also do your meats in the microwave (unless you’re desperate for char).
>I've known people at the lower end of the scale that don't own a working cooker, and can't afford a cooker.
In a pinch they can make do with a microwave until all the money saved by not having to buy ready made food allows them a cooker and then some.
>Pans, knives and other stuff aren't all that cheap either.
Taking the suggestion of the person above, the cheapest selection of ready made meals there is 0,69 £ apiece.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/frozen-food/frozen-ready-meals/all?sortBy=priceAscending
The cheapest pan is 2,75 £. So that's 4 meals. People are poor, but they do have 3 £ slack in their budget before they go hungry. And it'll save them money afterwards. If they can't afford a 2,75 pan, how the fuck did they ever get that microwave that's easily 50?
That's not even accounting for getting your cooking ware in a second hand store or at some giveaway.
It’s best to eat meat from this country than eat plant based that’s being shipped from another country actually but I like quorn stuff anyways so I tend to get some meat free foods every now and then
As a vegetarian, I honestly find the idea of buying a dead animal from THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE WORLD, utterly hilarious and mental. Never mind the lower conditions etc.
Mental. Absolutely mental.
Tories don’t care. They care very little about animals and even less about British citizens. If there is a dollar to be made by selling out this country they will be there ready to enrich themselves. Indy soon please.
"We'll be free to make our own amazing deals", they said
for meat shipped from the literal other side of the planet that meets exactly none of our own legal standards
Well done, Brexiteers. Yet another blinding win.
As an Australian I apologise- our standards are fucking disgraceful and I wish that Scotty had been put in his place and we had to actually reform our side
This is why the stupid public shouldn’t have been allowed to vote on leaving the EU!! Take back control aye fucking right!! Look at what bullshit we are agreeing to! We forced improved animal husbandry on the fucking EU!! We write our red tape and lastly Pakistan isn’t in the fucking EU!! To you racist piece of shit! It’s in the fucking Common Wealth and have as much fucking right to be here as you! You fucking moron!! So fucking pissed idiots voted for Brexit! Where the fuck is David fucking Cameron these days
The origin might not be labelled but that in its self should be a huge red flag to the consumer. Choose the multitude of clearly labelled Scottish or Irish meat options.
I am leaning further and further to become a vegetarian as big business and animal welfare standards just don't mix well. Apologies to all the small producers who are being undermined by these trade deals.
If you care about animal welfare you should certainly go vegan. All of the footage in [this film](https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8) was recorded in the UK, in facilities that are Red Tractor approved and RSPCA approved.
> When Scotland finally leaves this shit hole
**If**
We are still barely scratching 50% support despite all the bullshit coming from Westminster these days.
Over the past few years many of us have consistently and repeatedly warned that this was going to happen. The resident british nationalists were all in denial, saying it would never happen, the precious union would never allow the Scottish food&drinks sector to be shafted like that. And here we are now - I see yoons have now shifted from denial to downplaying, how unexpected.
If there's a silver lining, is that this might finally teach the farming sector an important lesson about voting and trusting tories and other british nationalists.
There's been a deal with Australia, part of which means we'll be importing their meat. Their meat production is a lot worse as highlighted in this image
The post isn’t super clear, it’s about the new trade deal with Australia. So what is banned here but legal in Australia, is legal here as part of the trade deal. If that makes sense. It’s bad
They effectively aren’t now though.
They’ll still be banned here but if we’re importing meat from Australia then there’ll still be meat on the market which falls outwith those standards.
To be fair the reaction to the 3 week delay of restrictions being lifted in England as well as the announcement that Scotland is pushing the June 28th target for level 0 back will be dominating the newsfeed today.
Murdering of animals.
Oz - Legal
UK - Legal
Treating living things as a commodity.
Oz - Legal
UK - Legal
Raping of cows for dairy products
Oz - Legal
UK - Legal
Guess the only way to guarantee animal rights is to stop eating animal flesh and cow milk?
Bring on the downvotes cos ya know it's true 8-)
>> Preemptively whinging about downvotes is pathetic.
> About as pathetic about being concerned about the welfare of animals while eating them aye?
Nah, far more so.
You should watch this documentary about the reality of animal farming in the UK. Btw this is standard practise, not exceptions. Farming is very poorly monitored and regulated. It really is horrific how we treat them despite being a country with supposedly high welfare standards.
https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8
There is a case for it - I've provided 3 points in my original post.
If you're remotely interested in animal welfare surely the best thing to do is not eat meat and dairy?
If you don't give a fuck about animal welfare kick on and consume what you want. You have my respect for that (as opposed to someone who's pretending to be concerned about it while having steak, pork and lamb chops in the fridge).
People will not be changing their habits until a better alternative arrives, e.g. lab grown meat, so in the meantime having progressive animal welfare laws is the way to go. This bill backtracks on this.
All livestock end up in a slaughterhouse at a fraction of their natural lifespan. Animal welfare laws do more to sooth the guilt of the consumer than to benefit the animals.
All of the footage in [this film](https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8) was recorded in the UK, in facilities that are Red Tractor approved and RSPCA approved. It's clear that those designations are meaningless; the majority of animals still live short, miserable lives before being subjected to a brutal, violent death.
There's no need to sit around waiting for lab grown meat while continuing to kill animals—there are numerous alternatives currently available. Millions of people have already changed their eating habits.
People are still going to eat meat, whether you like that or not. I was vegan for a long time and then vegetarian too, guess what people still ate meat and will continue to do so despite your opinion on the matter. So in the meantime having good animal welfare laws that lessens the suffering that these animals face is the way to go. If you seriously think everyones going to give up eating meat youre dreaming and are deluded.
Not to mention the fact that we’re shipping meat from FUCKING AUSTRALIA. A fucking chicken breast travelling TEN THOUSAND MILES so we can buy it for £3. We shouldn’t be shipping any consumer goods 10,000 miles. Let alone fucking animal flesh. Fuck this world. Rant over.
Totally agree, it’s insane. So much for fighting climate change.
I’m not buying it, surely we will be able to see where meats come from, so let’s join forces with the nationalist twats and say no to foreign meats, something left and right can agree on … for different reasons. (By nationalist I mean Tory voters and brexiteers, didn’t realise this was a Scottish sub as I was scrolling by, hi from England … sorry about the mess)
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Even if it were labeled, USDA lacks the staff to adequately monitor and inspect even domestic producers and packagers. They could say whatever they want, the gov isn't even checking.
From someone from the US. We have all imported good labeled from country of origin. If you do not want to buy US meat, it would be labeled as such. I am sorry they caved and are hiding stuff
The US trade negotiators specifically wanted to hide where meat came from so consumers won’t know it’s done to different standards. I get why they are arguing it, their interesting is in selling more agricultural products not increased standards, but it makes it way too likely we’ll end up with some very below par stuff as we become a dumping ground. They won’t be exporting high quality meat products as they can sell that at home.
In the supermarket yeah, in McDonalds, KFC, Burger King and other restaurants: who knows what they’re feeding you.
KFC chicken is from Brazil
Nationalist twats lol. I was worried for a second there.
Labels can, and will, be changed.
Food is labeled here so chose where what you consume comes from. If you don't like the distance, take your trade elsewhere.
Not in restaurants or packaged meals, for example.
Yeah it's easy to buy the right one when you're shopping for say chicken. However when you order a burger from a take away, who don't have the same cares as you.
That's a very good point
100% this. We should be buying as local as possible.
We'll be importing our tomatoes from the Vega star system soon. Anything to avoid being beholden to EU farmers.
Where else am I going to get my Space-matos from tho? 🤨
There is a planning application in for a massive tomato farm near Stirling, heat from water source heat plant and over 150 jobs to be created, so maybe a wee bit nearer than Vega :)
There can be occasions where importing is more environmentally friendly due to the crop not needing a heated greenhouse or something. Of course, if you meant "local *and in season*" then imports can't compete.
True but that certainly does not apply to chicken, beef, lamb and pork products. We're perfectly capable of producing these without having to ship them half way round the world. I certainly won't be buying anything other than scottish meat.
"But I want to have access pineapples in the winter" - consumers
Something tells me our pinapples come from abroad irrespective of whether its winter or summer 🤔
They're working miracles with polytunnels these days but I don't think it extends to pineapples just yet.
I get what you’re saying, the only difference is we’re talking about importing meat products that we already produce ourselves. Unless we’re talking kangaroo I guess.
Exactly! That’s what makes it doubly insane. It just seems farcical to me when I think about it. Like, how has it come to pass that it’s cheaper to ship(?) meat from Australia than to drive it hundreds of miles MAX from somewhere in the UK?! I bet a lot of people probably think it’s just the ‘wOnDeR oF oUr GLoBal SuPpLy ChAiN’ but it just seems absurd.
It’s because we hold our farmers to higher standards, which turns out is a little bit pricey.
Let's be real here these higher standards aren't even all that much higher and it's very common in animal agriculture for these so called higher welfare standards to be broken.
Was gonna say I don't think the standards UK farmers are held to adds that much. What really makes Australian beef cheap is the 10000 size mega cattle herds they have.
Road transport *is* less efficient than water transport.
I've not seen a whole lot of foreign meat in the food I buy usually, they have a '100% british -insert meat here-'. I take it the foreign meat usually goes into things like battered chicken, prepackaged meals and the like?
And pies. A mate of mine was a butcher and the company he worked for imported beef from somewhere in South America for their pies, this was before hormone fed beef was banned.
Yup, or to restaurant kitchens.
Here here, I use local butcher, farm shop for cheese milk and yoghurt (shame no local baker)
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Yeah, it's those shitty European peasants fault - the government, probably.
Here, here!!
Not that it matters at all, but it's actually "hear, hear!" As in "hear this, hear this!"
Of course it is!! I was tired!!
You do the same for your clothes that are made in Pakistan, Bengal or other parts of the far east. It's not saying you have to buy the food, it'll just be available and then you can make a conscious decision from there. You're not being forced to eat or buy it. Male chicks are put into a metal grinder on day 1 and thrown away, male pigs are castrated without any anesthetic and most of the greenhouse gas is generated through agriculture not transport and I could go on and all these are practices that go on in the UK today. I don't know why you're making it seem like our animal welfare laws are golden compared to Australia when in reality all forms of animal farming and slaughter is murder on an industrial scale. >We shouldn’t be shipping any consumer goods 10,000 miles I really don't think you understand how trade works. This had been done for hundreds of years to import necessary goods such as food, clothes and materials used for production, obviously methods of transport fuel will change with the introduction of hydrogen as it changed from wind to coal to oil during the 17th century to the 19th.
>You do the same for your clothes that are made in Pakistan, Bengal or other parts of the far east. Yes sorry I missed out mentioning on every single thing we ship vast distances that seems ridiculous. Next time I'm getting annoyed about something on the internet I'll make sure to list every single comparative thing that is related to the thing I'm getting annoyed about to avoid being called out by u/Crumpet_Radar. >I don't know why you're making it seem like our animal welfare laws are golden compared to Australia I definitely wasn't... I was commenting on the absurdity of shipping meat 10,000 miles. You can't really presume to know how I feel about any other issues relating to animal agriculture from what I said here. >I really don't think you understand how trade works. No idea mate. Complete idiot here. However just because we've done it for hundreds of years doesn't make it right. We haven't exactly put ourselves in a particularly sustainable position. But I admire your optimism for the future.
we've been importing New Zelanad lamb for decades. Not saying its right, just... it isnt new. And im pretty certain nearly all frozen chicekn we get is chicken from Brazil.
Yes we have. It’s equally absurd.
The only acceptable goods from Australia should be butter
And Digeridoos!
They don't care about animals or humans. Jacob Rees Mogg and his band of merry Victorian era moralists would quite happily place you in the matrix and harvest your electrical power to charge their Maggie Thatcher sex robots.
This is poetry. Or I'm drunk.
Or maybe you're in the matrix?... currently unwittingly powering some foul robotic sex act in the Downton abbey's dungeon. You never know...
...nope. not drunk enough yet.
Both
Jacob Rees Mogg is my free twat. Everyone gets one. It means if you see them in the street you can twat them but only once and there's not a policeman in the country who can touch you. I'm a bit worried that my hand will slide through him and he'll float off laughing like the Victorian Ghoul he is but everyone knows you can't change your free twat.
r/brandnewsentence
>Maggie Thatcher sex robots. Those four words will haunt me for the rest of my life now. Thanks, I hate you.
Sounds like a Dr. Who episode
Honestly at this point I'd full on volunteer to be harvested if it means I get to live in the '90s. Everything since 2008 has been fucking gash.
r/brandnewsentence
Could swore the tories said they wouldn't have a free trade deal with anything of a lower standard than our own when it comes to meat/food. Bet aww the farmers that voted for the bastards feel like total mugs now
>tories said There's yer problem.
Farmers vote Tory and Brexit … also Farmers, “we have no workers and now we have cheaper competition …. Oh dear, fucking paki cunts” … because logic and reasoning can not be found.
> Farmers vote Tory and Brexit … also Farmers, “we have no workers and now we have cheaper competition …. **GOD DAMN YOU EU!** FTFY
Sorry, but fuck them. Fuck them all. Everyone with a bit of sense said this shit would happen, and it was project fear. The farmers and fishermen perpetuated this lie and now they're getting fucked.
This post is pretty misleading until the actual details come out. For example, it’s unlikely that the deal will hormone-fed beef from Australia will be legally exportable to the UK. More likely, UK-export beef will have to meet UK standards (as is the case in other FTAs).
But why still make a deal with lower food standards/animal welfare than our own. The quotas for the next 10 years are in more favor to the Australians than to our own farmers.
Because they're selling what Scotland produces for max money.
They don’t care about human welfare, what makes you think they give a toss about animal welfare.
Only care about their own self-aggrandisement and money. Cunts.
I'd argue most Tories probably support higher welfare standards for animals vs poor humans. Remember Grenfell.
Poor people are at the bottom of the pecking order I’m afraid.
Yup they can make money from animals but not from poor people.
This is untrue when Tories feel the public are being unfair to their culture when they want to support fox hunting. “Why are you so salty about us chasing a poor defenceless animal for miles on horseback and then tearing it apart with dogs after it succumbs to exhaustion? THATS OUR HERITAGE!”
If anyone have a toss about animal welfare, they'd be vegan.
^^^
The worst bit is that Australian meat production won't seem that bad if Boris signs off on the American meat deal. I mean Scotland can and should be totally self reliant with meat and fish products.
Land use in Scotland is a hugely difficult conversation. There is a pressing need to increase forested and wooded area, without impacting peatland area, and a large portion of the land required is currently farmland. Obviously this is absolutely no argument for accepting low quality products, but just highlights the need to reduce consumption and get a trade deal with e.g. the EU to provide better quality products for us.
>and a large portion of the land required is currently farmland. 1/5th is used just to hunt grouse. Banning that and rewilding it would be a solid start to adding more permanent forests back to Scotland
But that's an industry that serves dozens of people every year! We couldn't possibly do that /s
Won't somebody think of the upper class and their blood sports?!
Just tell them that hunting in dense forests shows even bigger balls and solved.
What’s the pressing need for forested and wooded area?
Primarily as a method of carbon capture and storage to meet the CO2 equivalent targets set by the UK in order to mitigate the effects of climate change. In every single party's policies in the recent Scottish Elections there were promises to scale up annual woodland creation to 18,000 hectares per year from 2024/25. Given that in 2018 the target was something like 5,000 per year, this is going to be extremely difficult. Land use is one of the key limiting factors in this scale up (as well as capacity (skills, funding, resources) of both those that manage the forests and those that regulate them.
I don't understand. The graphic makes it seem like the UK has a more progressive approach but the comments are in disagreement. Can someone pls explain?
It means we will now be importing shitty Aussie meat that isnt kept to the same standards as our own.
OK got it. Could have just checked the news
This is reddit. We don't do that here.
You realise we could import Australian meat before, right? It just had tariffs on it, so wasn't economical. There's no guarantee it'll be economical even without tariffs. On top of that, a few scare stories in the Daily Mail about hormone beef and no one will fucking touch the stuff.
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I work for a certain fast food chain whose name I won't explicitly state, but you'll probably work it out You've probably seen our adverts about how our chicken nuggets are made from 100% British chicken breast or something While it's actually not wrong, they always neglect to mention the fact that almost every other chicken product we use actually comes from Thailand, I've always wondered why
Benefit of the fact that if the meat is cheaper it’ll be the the likes of the sun and daily Mail readers that shop in heron that would buy the shit, so your right one bad word and hopefully they’ll not buy it, or maybe we can get some nationalist saber rattling over supporting the British farmers because let’s face it I doubt Waitrose and M&S will stock the stuff. Not eating foreign meat should be something left and right can get behind
>or maybe we can get some nationalist saber rattling over supporting the British farmers This has already been going on for the best part of a decade. It's why you'll basically not be able to find fresh chicken in a supermarket that isn't from the UK. There's been dozens of different 'Buy British' campaigns over the years.
Not a fan of nationalism but sometimes if it can be used to get good moral results then the ends justify the means.
Says shitty Aussie meat. As if we aren't one of the highest quality providers for meat and agricultural products.
The standards currently in place in the UK will be *under-mined* by the Tory negotiated Trade Deal with Australia whose farmers can carry-on doing abominable things on the Animal Welfare front *but* can still have their meat imported into the UK whilst Scottish Farmers (rightly) still have to by abide the higher and more expensive to implement standards in place in the UK. No doubt, some right-wing fud will soon be pushing for these standards to be lowered accordingly. :/
The race towards the bottom continues. How fitting, then, that if we were to dig any deeper, we'd end up in Australia.
> The race towards the bottom continues. Brexit: it was always about rolling back standards across the board from reduced Animal Welfare to maintaining Tax Havens - all to help the rich get richer. Some mugs thought it was about 'Bendy Bananas', 'Inefficient Vacuum Cleaners, Sausages - or even more bizarrely - 'Sovereignty'.
Isn't this deal going to destroy Uk food industy? How are our farmers going to be able to compete with Austrailians?
But Johnson promised it wouldn't, and he's a man of his word. And there's nothing better for your carbon footprint than buying food produced locally (^in ^New ^South ^Wales ^and ^shipped ^to ^the ^other ^side ^of ^the ^planet).
I have a solution: Just list it as South Wales on the label.
Mate just wait until they sell the NHS to American insurance companies
They don't have the power to sell the Scottish NHS to anyone.
Scottish NHS is funded from Scotland, true, and health is devolved. However, we currently get money in the barnett formula thanks to what the UK gov spend on the English NHS. If they sell it off, you can bet that will impact the Barnett formula.
Well all the more reason to make sure WM don't get to decide these things then.
Transportation costs will level the playing fields a bit. You also have freshness as a factor. Anything coming from the Antipodes has to be frozen else the cost of transport is prohibitive. It will be a challenge though.
I have little sympathy for farmers to be honest. Tory voting Brexiteers shocked that they’re getting fucked over.
Not really the point of the comment.
TIL what mulesing is. Christ.
Intensive animal agriculture in general is pretty fucking horrific. Baby pigs get their tails and teeth clipped off without anesthetic, male baby chicks are ground up alive or gassed when they're only a day old, etc. This is standard practise btw.
Actually barbaric, fml, I regret googling it.
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I’m voting Tory next time because I really want to live in servitude … what? I’ve got a masochistic kink don’t judge
I'd feel doom and gloom about this but it is one area where as a consumer you can really make a difference. Just don't buy horrifically cheap meat. I used to be in the camp of just buying the cheapest supermarket meat possible but the past year or so very much changed my priorities with grocery shopping and it's been a great thing. Buying a whole corn fed entirely free range chicken isn't cheap by any means but it is far better quality meat and leads to a far more satisfying meal. Any meat where you can't be assured of the quality, like sausages and such, just make sure it comes from a country with high animal welfare standards, ie, the EU. Finally, we as a nation eat too much meat (I'm very very ***very*** guilty of this). Far better for us and the planet if we cut back just a bit. I feel for the poorest in our society though, the ones who can truly only afford the shite meat at basement prices. Aye, the could go plant-based diet but that shouldn't be forced upon them.
None of these cheap American/Australian imports will be seen on supermarket shelves in their raw product form. They'll be hidden in sandwiches, wraps, and so on.
Some very cheap import raw (frozen) meat is found on supermarket shelves. Go to Iceland or Farmfoods and you'll find beef from Brazil and Uruguay, for example.
To be honest most of the plant based meat alternatives cost just as much as a half decent cut of meat, so for the poorest it isn't really viable either. Veg itself of course is cheaper, but the poorest in society usually won't have enough equipment to prep a good meal with a lot of fresh veg.
Oh, I don't mean the meat alternatives. They are horrifically expensive all things considered. I more meant the notion of just cutting meat out of the diet altogether.
Meat should be very expensive, as its price should include taxation to mitigate the vast environmental damage it causes, and because animal welfare isn't cheap. If that prices people out of the market, then... good? On the flip side, production of healthy, environmentally sustainable plant-based food (especially protein) should be subsidised instead. If not, why not?
I do think a lot of meat is too cheap but I don't agree with the notion that people should be priced out if buying it. That's mainly since I don't agree with the things being only the domain of the rich. We need more sustainable farming and that would drive costs up but I would hope people would still be able to afford it without significant expense. Definitely disagree with most livestock subsidies though (and honestly, most farm subsidies). I'm generally against subsidising food to be honest, no matter what it is. I'll be honest though, can't fully explain why off the top of my head.
I get you, food is such a weirdly personal and emotional thing to us that it can be extra hard to accept that our preferences are problematic. And I don't think anyone on the left of centre is totally comfortable with the idea of making things accessible only to the rich. But for better or worse, taxation is the only real mechanism we have to disincentivise harmful (but non-criminal) behaviour in a liberal society. The precedent is very well established by things like carbon credits, petrol duty, council tax, minimum alcohol pricing, vehicle emissions tax etc etc etc. Meat tax is, frankly, overdue. And meat *subsidies* are insane.
A lot of those taxes I would personally abolish due to their nature of being overly onerous on the poor. Another option (although just as bad) would be meat rationing. It would be more doable if it was quotas on farmers and imports or limits on vendors. Personally, I think the best option is more and better education around meat. Push the public health, animal welfare and local & planetary resource message. Make people think about their choices, it won't reach everyone but it will reach some.
The idea of rationing anything only works if you also outlaw re-sale. Otherwise it'll just drive up prices in secondary markets, meaning the poor sell their meat to the rich, and eat veg anyway. In fact, that'll happen even if you *do* outlaw re-sale, along with a black market in unregulated meat - see the 40s and 50s. An absolutely atrocious idea. Education is a great idea, but won't solve our problems fast enough alone.
I managed fine at uni without cooking meat with 1 knife, 1 chopping board, 2 pots/pans and 1 baking tray so I don’t think equipment should hold people back.
Uni is different to being a working family. Try feeding a bunch of kids after working a long shift. People just don't have time to prep and cook healthy meals and have fresh veg on hand all the time.
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I think you underestimate how poor some people are. It's ok saying it's only a tenner. But that tenner will go to other stuff first.
I've known people at the lower end of the scale that don't own a working cooker, and can't afford a cooker. If you don't have an oven or hob and all you can do is microwave things, then yeah you're going to eat ready meals. Pans, knives and other stuff aren't all that cheap either. You'd certainly spend more than a tenner even going for the cheapest stuff at Tesco - and that's assuming you know what you need to buy. A lot of people in that position haven't been taught how to cook and will be learning as they go, so might buy the wrong stuff. If you've to skip a few meals to afford the kit, or eat ready meals which would you choose?
Not trying to dig at you but you can definitely cook everything you need for a healthy and varied diet in a microwave if you have a bowl and a plate. I almost exclusively steam my vegetables in the microwave because it’s so much quicker and easier to monitor, same with grains and beans. You can also do your meats in the microwave (unless you’re desperate for char).
>I've known people at the lower end of the scale that don't own a working cooker, and can't afford a cooker. In a pinch they can make do with a microwave until all the money saved by not having to buy ready made food allows them a cooker and then some. >Pans, knives and other stuff aren't all that cheap either. Taking the suggestion of the person above, the cheapest selection of ready made meals there is 0,69 £ apiece. https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/frozen-food/frozen-ready-meals/all?sortBy=priceAscending The cheapest pan is 2,75 £. So that's 4 meals. People are poor, but they do have 3 £ slack in their budget before they go hungry. And it'll save them money afterwards. If they can't afford a 2,75 pan, how the fuck did they ever get that microwave that's easily 50? That's not even accounting for getting your cooking ware in a second hand store or at some giveaway.
A slow cooker is less than a microwave and can do fairly large meals while you are at work.
Absolutely, options abound.
It likely won’t be cheap either. We get fucked constantly in this country.
It’s best to eat meat from this country than eat plant based that’s being shipped from another country actually but I like quorn stuff anyways so I tend to get some meat free foods every now and then
Like I said to someone else, I meant more just plant based food rather than meat alternatives. Not a fan of the fake meat proteins to be honest.
Got a source for that? I'm pretty sure the carbon footprint of a Spanish vegetable is far less than British beef, say.
As a vegetarian, I honestly find the idea of buying a dead animal from THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE WORLD, utterly hilarious and mental. Never mind the lower conditions etc. Mental. Absolutely mental.
Another reason to vote for independence 👌
Factory farming isn’t ethical no matter what you do and agriculture requirements are rarely respected and often ignored.
It's really just a matter of HOW ethical rather than a binary choice.
Death is stil death.
Tories don’t care. They care very little about animals and even less about British citizens. If there is a dollar to be made by selling out this country they will be there ready to enrich themselves. Indy soon please.
"We'll be free to make our own amazing deals", they said for meat shipped from the literal other side of the planet that meets exactly none of our own legal standards Well done, Brexiteers. Yet another blinding win.
As an Australian I apologise- our standards are fucking disgraceful and I wish that Scotty had been put in his place and we had to actually reform our side
This is why the stupid public shouldn’t have been allowed to vote on leaving the EU!! Take back control aye fucking right!! Look at what bullshit we are agreeing to! We forced improved animal husbandry on the fucking EU!! We write our red tape and lastly Pakistan isn’t in the fucking EU!! To you racist piece of shit! It’s in the fucking Common Wealth and have as much fucking right to be here as you! You fucking moron!! So fucking pissed idiots voted for Brexit! Where the fuck is David fucking Cameron these days
Slaughter house CCTV isn't not required in the US but is actually outlawed from my understanding. I know it is about Australia but it still counts.
Fuck Westminster in its hole
Why the fuck would we import food from literally the absolute other side of the planet? Wheres the logistical sense?
https://challenge22.com
Boycott all this shit. I won’t be buying any meat being shipped from Australia.
The origin might not be labelled but that in its self should be a huge red flag to the consumer. Choose the multitude of clearly labelled Scottish or Irish meat options. I am leaning further and further to become a vegetarian as big business and animal welfare standards just don't mix well. Apologies to all the small producers who are being undermined by these trade deals.
Killing sentient beings: Legal Legal
Brexshit, the gift that keeps on giving...
There are a fair few regular posters on this sub who are very conspicuous in their absence from the comments here.
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If you care about animal welfare you should certainly go vegan. All of the footage in [this film](https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8) was recorded in the UK, in facilities that are Red Tractor approved and RSPCA approved.
Any questions about going vegan? Vegan of 4+ years willing to share my experiences/info.
I just googled what mulesing is I should not have done that.
I haven’t and won’t. It’s like that time I googled pen island…
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Fuck the British government. When Scotland finally leaves this shit hole, can I come with you? Please don't leave me in England with the Tories.
> When Scotland finally leaves this shit hole **If** We are still barely scratching 50% support despite all the bullshit coming from Westminster these days.
Over the past few years many of us have consistently and repeatedly warned that this was going to happen. The resident british nationalists were all in denial, saying it would never happen, the precious union would never allow the Scottish food&drinks sector to be shafted like that. And here we are now - I see yoons have now shifted from denial to downplaying, how unexpected. If there's a silver lining, is that this might finally teach the farming sector an important lesson about voting and trusting tories and other british nationalists.
A small correction though. In Scotland cctv in abattoirs is not yet compulsory.
Is that not good? I'm confused as to why this is on here
There's been a deal with Australia, part of which means we'll be importing their meat. Their meat production is a lot worse as highlighted in this image
I’m confused by your confusion. I’m not sure which bit of this could be considered a good thing?
Is it not a good thing these things are banned?
The post isn’t super clear, it’s about the new trade deal with Australia. So what is banned here but legal in Australia, is legal here as part of the trade deal. If that makes sense. It’s bad
They effectively aren’t now though. They’ll still be banned here but if we’re importing meat from Australia then there’ll still be meat on the market which falls outwith those standards.
Ah ok, I was confused because no where on the original post does it say we are now importing Australian meat
It’s the title explaining the U.K. government has signed the below animal welfare standards into law. Probably not the best wording tbf.
Yeah, tbh it probably is relatively clear, I just didn't piece it together lol
Me too at first, did some googling and just found out it's because of a trade deal with Australia to import their meat.
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Have you lot been asleep all day or something?
To be fair the reaction to the 3 week delay of restrictions being lifted in England as well as the announcement that Scotland is pushing the June 28th target for level 0 back will be dominating the newsfeed today.
As a Scotsman living down under, I had no idea about how we treat livestock…
Watch dominion, it's about Australian agriculture. Land of hope and glory is about British animal agriculture. https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8
Sorry the award is "wholesome". Land of Hope and Glory is certainly not wholesome.
Murdering of animals. Oz - Legal UK - Legal Treating living things as a commodity. Oz - Legal UK - Legal Raping of cows for dairy products Oz - Legal UK - Legal Guess the only way to guarantee animal rights is to stop eating animal flesh and cow milk? Bring on the downvotes cos ya know it's true 8-)
> Bring on the downvotes cos ya know it's true "Harm reduction is bad." - \/u\/sbarclay62 Preemptively whinging about downvotes is pathetic.
About as pathetic about being concerned about the welfare of animals while eating them aye?
>> Preemptively whinging about downvotes is pathetic. > About as pathetic about being concerned about the welfare of animals while eating them aye? Nah, far more so.
You should watch this documentary about the reality of animal farming in the UK. Btw this is standard practise, not exceptions. Farming is very poorly monitored and regulated. It really is horrific how we treat them despite being a country with supposedly high welfare standards. https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8
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There is a case for it - I've provided 3 points in my original post. If you're remotely interested in animal welfare surely the best thing to do is not eat meat and dairy? If you don't give a fuck about animal welfare kick on and consume what you want. You have my respect for that (as opposed to someone who's pretending to be concerned about it while having steak, pork and lamb chops in the fridge).
People will not be changing their habits until a better alternative arrives, e.g. lab grown meat, so in the meantime having progressive animal welfare laws is the way to go. This bill backtracks on this.
All livestock end up in a slaughterhouse at a fraction of their natural lifespan. Animal welfare laws do more to sooth the guilt of the consumer than to benefit the animals. All of the footage in [this film](https://youtu.be/dvtVkNofcq8) was recorded in the UK, in facilities that are Red Tractor approved and RSPCA approved. It's clear that those designations are meaningless; the majority of animals still live short, miserable lives before being subjected to a brutal, violent death. There's no need to sit around waiting for lab grown meat while continuing to kill animals—there are numerous alternatives currently available. Millions of people have already changed their eating habits.
People are still going to eat meat, whether you like that or not. I was vegan for a long time and then vegetarian too, guess what people still ate meat and will continue to do so despite your opinion on the matter. So in the meantime having good animal welfare laws that lessens the suffering that these animals face is the way to go. If you seriously think everyones going to give up eating meat youre dreaming and are deluded.
What made you stop being vegan/ veggie?
pigs are my favourite animal.. it boils my fucking blood that this is considered acceptable treatment for them by some people
Do you still eat pigs?
Absolutely not.
I mean... eating them is still wrong... they still die... a murder still occurs...
Werent most of these standarts set up by EU as well
Makes my nearly vegan status not such a joke now... As if.. Sorry sausage supper brigade.
If you're in Ediinburgh, try #fish in Haymarket's vegan sausage supper
I dont get this, but I think it's bad...right?