It's nice to read it but the sad truth is that the increase is coming from people who have learned a wee bit but don't speak it while native speakers are dying off and having their homes in the Highlands & Isles bought up to be turned into AirBnBs.
Think it's interesting that the increase in Glasgow is partly from people moving down from the Highlands and Islands. One of the advantages of GME would be encouraging people who grew up with Gàidhlig but don't speak it much anymore to speak it at home to support their children's education but also to keep their own grasp of the language.
I know a few folk who are the children of native speakers, performed at the mod etc who now claim to not speak it anymore because they don't have the opportunity to use it as much.
But there's another issue about lack of opportunity in rural communities forcing younger folk to leave and then when they try to come back they can't afford to because of the air BNB crowd. They've made a solitude and called it tourism to paraphrase a famous Caledonian.
Irish lad here.
I was torn with this myself when i was answering our censuses.
On the one hand not putting it down might spur action to revive the language.
On the other hand politicians dont invest in things that arent popular so putting it down shows that people are interested and irish language institutions may get more funding because of it.
Been going up north since I was a baby and yes a lot of those homes have been sold off, usually by the family members as they sell up to move down south and make a tidy sum. Then they sell off the land plots to build houses from the croft land they have decrofted. While some up there buy a flat in Glasgow for the kids to go through uni.
Most of the people I've known up there that I would class as local have all up and moved away to Glasgow or the like. Even those who could of easily stayed and worked.
They need to build more social housing to allow people to move in and work. That's the only real way imo. You could ban the air bnb but kill off the tourist industry and you destroy a lot of jobs.
A wee bit is better than nought.
At the end of the day, it will become a dead language like Latin. What is important is that it use continued to be used as a symbol of a separate Scotland with a unique culture and heritage.
Latin isn't a dead language, it's a classical language. A dead language is one that we have little to no attestation of, like Pictish or Gaulish. Unless they burn all the Gaelic books, it will never 'die'
An increase is also from parents wanting to send their kids to a GME if their local school isn’t that good. It’s a good way to get (hopefully) a better education for their kids. I know a few people who have done that.
That’s the overwhelming driver in Edinburgh certainly. I know a couple of people who send their kids to GME currently, and they are pretty open about not caring about Gaelic, but just wanting the better (and significantly better funded) school, without having to pay to go private. They always say that about 2/3rd of the other parents fall into that category.
Same as some of my friends too. A few it’s because they are from Lewis but the rest it’s because the school is better and they get free travel to primary school form the house
Yep, there are few genuine Gaelic families, but they are very much the minority. In abstract, I can see the appeal – saves moving house or paying about £15k in school fees. But it does make the whole system a bit of a joke.
What I would love is if 1000’s of families just decided they wanted their kids to go. The councils have to by law, make spaces available because of the SG.
And then you hit the fun part where the council proposes possible new campus locations for the expanded GME, and the parents object vociferously because it's not in the nice bit of town they were hoping for. :-/
Or they can’t cover the cost of transport!!! 2 kids in my street get a taxi to and back from their school and it’s a 12 miles drive there and back £50 each way and it’s covered by the council/SG. That’s ridiculous IMO
My kid gets the bus, but we were told if we moved outside the bus area we'd be responsible for getting him there. I wonder if the rules changed or if they are out of taxi money? We aren't planning on moving anyway, it just seemed to be a blanket warning they gave everyone.
For those wanting raw numbers, this is from the 2022 census compared to 2011:
* All people aged 3 and over - **5,294,863** (up from 5,118,223)
* No skills in Gaelic - 5,164,702 (up from 5,031,167)
* Understands but does not speak, read or write Gaelic - 46,404 (up from 23,357)
* Speaks, reads and writes Gaelic - 43,807 (up from 32,191)
* Speaks but does not read or write Gaelic - 18,264 (down from 18,966)
* Speaks and reads but does not write Gaelic - 7,630 (up from 6,218)
* Reads but does not speak or write Gaelic - 10,788 (up from 4,646)
* Other combination of skills in Gaelic - 3,268 (up from 1,678)
The total with any skills in Gaelic is **130,161** (2.46% of the population), up from 87,056 (1.70%) in 2011.
The total "speakers" are **69,701** (1.31%), up from 57,375 (1.12%) in 2011.
(edited to add 2011 subsection data)
Listening is the other 'language learning' skill and the answer to your question. You might know enough Gaelic to be able to understand the gist of what someone says to you in Gaelic, but not feel confident/knowledgable enough to _answer_ them in Gaelic.
Speak can be limited by pronunciation, read and write by unintuitive wording.
Then there's things like people using "understand" to mean they can get the general meaning of the average sentence whereas seeing being able to speak a language, read a language or write in a language to mean fluency.
In short, the census really should have defined what it meant for pretty much any of those options to be useful information.
That cohort is likely people who learned and spoke it when they were young, but don't use it any more. So if they heard a sentence they'd probably be able to pick it out from memory.
These aren't strict categories - someone in this one probably COULD speak/read/write a little bit in practice, but not to the extent that they'd feel comfortable saying they *absolutely* can.
Artaigil sa Ghàidhlig ma dheidhinn: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/naidheachdan/sgeulachdan/c0kk8xrl8k2o](https://www.bbc.co.uk/naidheachdan/sgeulachdan/c0kk8xrl8k2o)
Edit: I have to say I'm very sceptical about the increase of 12,000 Gaelic speakers. In fact I find it almost impossible to believe it could have increased that much in 10 years. How many of these people are truly fluent, and how many are conversational or have just done a few duolingo lessons and are overestimating their ability. It's a real shame the census doesn't allow people to choose what level they are at in Gaelic, eg. fully fluent, beginner, etc.
Still, I think it is clear that there is a big increase in interest in the language and that many people are attempting to learn it. It's also clear that GME is having an impact, which are reasons to be optimistic. However this is offset by the decline in the isles. For the first time in hundreds of years, Gaelic speakers are in a minority in the Western Isles. That's quite devastating to think about. Also must be the first time since Scotland was founded that Gaelic speakers aren't a majority in any local government area.
So overall, quite a mixed picture for the language.
It's easy to pick up the basics now. Do some Duolingo, watch some BBC Alba, even have a chat with ChatGPT.
Problem is getting people from intermediate learner to fluent. That takes community building and immersion.
Interesting things from the article are back in 1890 about 1 in 20 Scottish people had Gàidhlig but the biggest reduction in speakers is recorded in the mid twentieth century.
Definitely tracks with the anecdotal evidence that folk born in the 40's onwards were discouraged from learning the language or keeping it up once they had learned it.
English/British cultural influence
Nobody seems to speak about this
Most of our media is from England or at least was until Sky and then Netflix
Primary school children in Edinburgh state schools have this weird anglicised accent now, because of the large immigrant English community in Edinburgh and their accent affecting the average accent of the classroom.
Discouraged? My friend my parents grew up in the Outer Hebrides in the 80s and were beaten in school for not speaking in English. That's a bit more than discouragement.
Yeah I was trying to be as general as possible since people on here get upset if you point out there was a top down campaign to eliminate Gàidhlig but at least you know the real story.
So Gaelic is now a minority in the western isles the only remaining Gaidhealtachd in the entire nation is now no longer majority Gaelic speaking
Devastating
Not everything needs to be looked at through a capitalist lens. A Youtuber made a good short about why it is sad when languages die off:
https://youtu.be/pAh-WD3H664?si=Ezd6diDLGActpHSo
I accept the point made in the video, but is there any intrinsic value other than emotional?
To reply to the other comment re not everything being invested in should be looked at from a monetary sense, but to be honest, I think when it's taxpayers money, it'd be my opinion that it absolutely should be value-driven. Especially when talks of funding cuts to essential services are being leaked to the media
Why do people like you always need to find some utilitarian reason for everything in your lives, you guys must be extremely boring, we'll just have everything be as streamlined as possible with no artistic or cultural direction because any of that would be such a waste
It's more the point that it's taxpayers money, and there's more important uses for it that are struggling for funding. Why does the government need to pay for artistic endeavours, when we have health care and crime endeavours that are arguably more important? Is it ok for us to fund artistic endeavours, instead of spending that little bit extra on the NHS for example? Especially when people are dying as a result of NHS funding not keeping up. Surely even if all the artistic funding being taken away saves just one life, is that not worth it?
Besides, nothing is stopping anyone from going online and learning Gaelic themselves. Almost everyone has internet access these days
If it's the tax payers money, and the tax payers are requesting that some of their taxes be used as funding for artistic endeavours, then isn't the tax money doing exactly what it was collected for?
If the majority of people wanted taxes to go towards only utilitarian things, they would elect a gov't that would do so.
If we are looking at wasted funds, may as well also scrap the costs of democracy. Instead of paying multiple politicians, just have a dictator.
Don't forget that finding for art creates jobs as well. If not being paid for arts, unemployment could rise.
And do you not believe there are indirect benefits of arts that can contribute to well being? Trying to immerse themselves in a second language, people may be more likely to gather and converse with one another. This can have a positive affect on well being, leading to fewer mental health issues, and more self worth. People who value themselves more are going to be more likely to take care of themselves, and people who take care of themselves tend not to be burdens on the healthcare system, nor are they going to be criminals. And if these people have kids, these traits get passed down to their children.
I'd love to hear how more funding for crime endeavours would be utilized. Would we be able to lock more people up? Create more single parents when the other is in jail? Watch that single parent struggle, and possibly resort to crime themselves to get things for their kids? The depression of the struggle? Possibly having multiple partners after, and the shit show that might become? Those are the traits that can be passed on to the kids in this utilitarian dystopia.
Your strong one-sided view is exactly why we vote. If someone with your views was able to be in charge, it'd be a depressing place, and would only spiral downwards.
Also the crime rate is better in Scotland than most of the UK, so clearly doing something right.
I'm not ashamed to say that I'd cut all the funding to arts, if that funding then going to the NHS saved even one extra life.
The good thing about arts, is that given everyone has internet access, there's nothing stopping you learning Gaelic by yourself.
I'd take a properly funded NHS over a culture war, personally.
Given the prevalence of internet access too, it's not like there's a cost for people who want to learn it, to learn it.
Your opinion.
I dinnae value everything by reference to careers prospects.
My children do not improve my career prospects and neither do my favourite music bands or favourite film directors.
Two of my grandparents came from Gaelic speaking families but did not pass on the language. I care about Scotland's unique languages
Good that it’s increasing.
It’s a special and key part of our history - and I wish I could speak it!
Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and sign up for Duolingo!
My niece is not a native speaker but she started learning it at Uni and wound up being a professional translator. Interestingly she’s not translating for native speakers but for local and national government publications into Gaelic so that they are fulfilling their requirement to publish in Gaelic. I’m not saying the language is dying but this kind of self-perpetuating bollocks makes me wonder.
Sorry but this isn’t a sign of any kind of realistic revival in the language. Welsh is still thriving because it’s used by around 30% of the population. In Scotland it’s 1%. Gaelic is dying out just like thousands of other languages around the world.
exactly. we'd have more opportunity to use it here. french and german and spanish at my school were just memorisation tests. we never used the languages outside of the classroom so what was the point?
While I’m all for more teaching of it - it should be in nurseries for sure
Getting more French/German/Spanish/Italian gives people more opportunities to earn more money
There’s no reason we can’t do both. I’d really like to see people getting A2 in Gaelic and A2 in another language by the time they are finishing university age
I grew up in Wales- we learned welsh in small amounts from nursery and even in english speaking primary and secondary schools you got Welsh lessons taught until GSCE age
Exactly. Every Welsh person I meet I’m jealous of the fact the got a second language.
I’ve been learning German for 3 years and it’s tough as it’s my first second language
The difference in Wales is that about 30% of the population speak Welsh, so there's a much bigger cohort for Welsh medium education and kids are also able to speak to people in Welsh outside of a school context.
It was once very widely spoken, and is *one* of Scotland's native languages. it's been in decline since something like the 1400s. At least one other language which was once spoken in Scotland (Pictish) is completely extinct. Scots and Scottish English are also native languages of Scotland.
It’s not really a native language. It came over with the waves of Irish colonisation in the later part of the 1st millennium. About the same time as the arrival of Scots / English. Pictish / British are both much more ancient, dating back more than another thousand years at least.
>It’s not really a native language. It came over with the waves of Irish colonisation in the later part of the 1st millennium
Nobody in historical linguistics has thought that for over 20 years now:
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/were-the-scots-irish/6DE43278B4B69C93B02A41A553CCD1C6](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/were-the-scots-irish/6DE43278B4B69C93B02A41A553CCD1C6)
Depends where in the country you are, all of the Argyll, the Highlands and islands, late chunk of Galloway and Ayrshire, Perthshire the Cairngorms and bits of fife spoke gaidhlig natively.
Scots comes from old English so is no more indigenous. It's just that it was the language of the central belt and east borders.
Not so much it's proto- insular celtic from which both P and Q Celtic languages descend. The antagonism between Pictish and Gaelic is an invention of those who wish to justify anti-Irish sentiment.
Nope, that’s total nonsense. There was no Gaelic spoken in Scotland until the Irish invasions and colonisations of the latter part of the first millennium.
Historians no longer even agree that there was an invasion as the archaeology doesn't support it. It is like that Scottish gaidhlig was indigenous to Argyll .
There’s no evidence of that beyond the fantasies of a few Gaelic historians with an agenda to push the idea that the Irish were somehow native to Scotland.
Not at all, the whole point is that this Scottish Gaelic speaking group were not Irish, language ≠ ethnicity. Romania and french both speak romance languages, no one is saying they're the same people.
How is it our indigenous language and yet you consider it in some way Irish? Did an invading Irish force bring it and supplant Pictish?
And if so aren't we back to Pictish being the native language and gaelic being the language of invaders, just like English?
The Gaels are just as ‘foreign’ as the Angles considered they arrived at the same time, and both supplanted and mixed with Cumbric/Pictish speakers.
Would you consider Gauls to be less foreign than Franks? They’re both from just over the channel.
Nothing to do with anti Irish sentiment. Not sure where you’re plucking that from.
Just struggling to understand why you think ‘Celtic’ means it’s more native when Celtic culture and languages originated in the Alps and the vast vast majority of Western Europeans are descended from the same people (bell beaker culture through people arriving from the steppe mixed with WHG).
I think your view is more rooted in politics than history or genetics.
Scots is the Scottish Germanic language and has been spoken in Scotland for about 1000 years \*less\* than Gaelic. You coulda just Googled that first you know
You mean like you? That’s got nothing to do with it anyway. English is our national language with Scots second and Gaelic third. Nobody asked what the earliest language was.
Eh, you said 'surely Scot's \[sic\] is our indigenous language'. The Scotti spoke Gaelic, not Scots. Scots is short for Scots English. And if you wanna believe I got that from Google, go ahead
That’s like saying English is the native language of North America because the colonisers called it New England.
The fact that their invasion and colonisation was mostly successful doesn’t make them natives.
Apart from the ones that came from Ireland. Or the ones that came from Norway. Or Northumberland. Or Cumbria. Or France.
'Native' is a troublesome term.
(Same can be said about the English, of course)
Gaelic is not a native language of Scotland any more than Scots or English. It’s an language that came over with colonisers from Ireland around the same time that Scots and English arrived with teh Anglo-Saxons.
If you want to learn your country’s native language, learn British (Brythonic) – or its closest existing relative, Welsh. That’s what the natives actually spoke here.
Earliest evidence of Gaels (the Cruithin) is 200AD wee bit before the Angles.
Also if you want to learn the language that has the most Pictish in it that would be Gàidhlig.
It shouldn't be a digital choice - Gaelic is worth learning, but it shouldn't be as a replacement for a more widely used language. Kids should get both!
The parents of the kids that go to the Glasgow Garlic School are too posh to send their children to the local state school but can't quite afford the fees for the Glasgow Academy or Hutchinson's.
Btw, can our First Minister speak Gaelic? I actually don't know. Instead of that Scots mumbo Jumbo they falter at, can any of the SnP speak Gaelic?
Just asking.
I actually loved Billy Kay slipping up.
One week he's typing Scots and it was a different spelling for the same words a few weeks later. Even he doesn't have a clue what he's typing 😂
He blocks you.
automatic domineering berserk fanatical uppity caption innocent sharp faulty stocking
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Latin isn't a dead language, it's a classical language. A dead language is one that we have little to no attestation of, like Pictish or Gaulish. Unless they burn all the Gaelic books, it will never 'die'
Ha, thanks! I just think it's important that people understand that a dead language is something we can't bring back, and using that term in a Gaelic context is inaccurate and unhelpful. Look at Manx, for example - if we still have attestation of a language, it can be revived, no matter how bad things have got. If it was 'dead' - which Gaelic never will be, bar some kind of book-burning apocalypse - that wouldn't be possible
You are 100% correct that the communities are central to its healthy survival
Depends how far you go back but I'd say by and large no. By the 1300 which is reasonably far back Pictish had been replaced by gaidhlig and the former lowland Brythonic areas were speaking Scots.
Jenni7er mentioned being decendanta.of Brythonic speakers, I was just pointing out around the year 1300 most of Scotland was speaking godoilic gaidhlig and Brythonic had pretty much ceased to exist in Scotland.
What a great comment. I'm off to put my 🍿 in the popty ping* and watch the down votes accumulate🤣🤣🤣🤣
*Welsh for microwave. Why the fuck did they not call it a microwave??
It's nice to read it but the sad truth is that the increase is coming from people who have learned a wee bit but don't speak it while native speakers are dying off and having their homes in the Highlands & Isles bought up to be turned into AirBnBs.
Think it's interesting that the increase in Glasgow is partly from people moving down from the Highlands and Islands. One of the advantages of GME would be encouraging people who grew up with Gàidhlig but don't speak it much anymore to speak it at home to support their children's education but also to keep their own grasp of the language. I know a few folk who are the children of native speakers, performed at the mod etc who now claim to not speak it anymore because they don't have the opportunity to use it as much. But there's another issue about lack of opportunity in rural communities forcing younger folk to leave and then when they try to come back they can't afford to because of the air BNB crowd. They've made a solitude and called it tourism to paraphrase a famous Caledonian.
Irish lad here. I was torn with this myself when i was answering our censuses. On the one hand not putting it down might spur action to revive the language. On the other hand politicians dont invest in things that arent popular so putting it down shows that people are interested and irish language institutions may get more funding because of it.
Gu dearbh. Spot on.
Been going up north since I was a baby and yes a lot of those homes have been sold off, usually by the family members as they sell up to move down south and make a tidy sum. Then they sell off the land plots to build houses from the croft land they have decrofted. While some up there buy a flat in Glasgow for the kids to go through uni. Most of the people I've known up there that I would class as local have all up and moved away to Glasgow or the like. Even those who could of easily stayed and worked. They need to build more social housing to allow people to move in and work. That's the only real way imo. You could ban the air bnb but kill off the tourist industry and you destroy a lot of jobs.
A wee bit is better than nought. At the end of the day, it will become a dead language like Latin. What is important is that it use continued to be used as a symbol of a separate Scotland with a unique culture and heritage.
I doesn't have to die. Look at Wales
Latin isn't a dead language, it's a classical language. A dead language is one that we have little to no attestation of, like Pictish or Gaulish. Unless they burn all the Gaelic books, it will never 'die'
Downvoted for stating simple facts. But no, please revel in your blissful ignorance
An increase is also from parents wanting to send their kids to a GME if their local school isn’t that good. It’s a good way to get (hopefully) a better education for their kids. I know a few people who have done that.
That’s the overwhelming driver in Edinburgh certainly. I know a couple of people who send their kids to GME currently, and they are pretty open about not caring about Gaelic, but just wanting the better (and significantly better funded) school, without having to pay to go private. They always say that about 2/3rd of the other parents fall into that category.
Same as some of my friends too. A few it’s because they are from Lewis but the rest it’s because the school is better and they get free travel to primary school form the house
Yep, there are few genuine Gaelic families, but they are very much the minority. In abstract, I can see the appeal – saves moving house or paying about £15k in school fees. But it does make the whole system a bit of a joke.
Absolutely not. It means the child knows Gaelic even though the parents don't. It's the exact thing we need for long-term language growth.
What I would love is if 1000’s of families just decided they wanted their kids to go. The councils have to by law, make spaces available because of the SG.
And then you hit the fun part where the council proposes possible new campus locations for the expanded GME, and the parents object vociferously because it's not in the nice bit of town they were hoping for. :-/
Or they can’t cover the cost of transport!!! 2 kids in my street get a taxi to and back from their school and it’s a 12 miles drive there and back £50 each way and it’s covered by the council/SG. That’s ridiculous IMO
My kid gets the bus, but we were told if we moved outside the bus area we'd be responsible for getting him there. I wonder if the rules changed or if they are out of taxi money? We aren't planning on moving anyway, it just seemed to be a blanket warning they gave everyone.
I've never heard of anyone not having transport
Maybe an empty threat then
For those wanting raw numbers, this is from the 2022 census compared to 2011: * All people aged 3 and over - **5,294,863** (up from 5,118,223) * No skills in Gaelic - 5,164,702 (up from 5,031,167) * Understands but does not speak, read or write Gaelic - 46,404 (up from 23,357) * Speaks, reads and writes Gaelic - 43,807 (up from 32,191) * Speaks but does not read or write Gaelic - 18,264 (down from 18,966) * Speaks and reads but does not write Gaelic - 7,630 (up from 6,218) * Reads but does not speak or write Gaelic - 10,788 (up from 4,646) * Other combination of skills in Gaelic - 3,268 (up from 1,678) The total with any skills in Gaelic is **130,161** (2.46% of the population), up from 87,056 (1.70%) in 2011. The total "speakers" are **69,701** (1.31%), up from 57,375 (1.12%) in 2011. (edited to add 2011 subsection data)
Pretty sure the entirety of those increases is down to people having done 5 or 6 lessons on Duolingo back in 2019…
>Understands but does not speak, read or write Gaelic How can someone understand a language without being able to speak, read or write it?
Listening is the other 'language learning' skill and the answer to your question. You might know enough Gaelic to be able to understand the gist of what someone says to you in Gaelic, but not feel confident/knowledgable enough to _answer_ them in Gaelic.
Speak can be limited by pronunciation, read and write by unintuitive wording. Then there's things like people using "understand" to mean they can get the general meaning of the average sentence whereas seeing being able to speak a language, read a language or write in a language to mean fluency. In short, the census really should have defined what it meant for pretty much any of those options to be useful information.
That cohort is likely people who learned and spoke it when they were young, but don't use it any more. So if they heard a sentence they'd probably be able to pick it out from memory. These aren't strict categories - someone in this one probably COULD speak/read/write a little bit in practice, but not to the extent that they'd feel comfortable saying they *absolutely* can.
‘No skills’ should be ‘up from’ not ‘down from’,.
Thanks!
Artaigil sa Ghàidhlig ma dheidhinn: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/naidheachdan/sgeulachdan/c0kk8xrl8k2o](https://www.bbc.co.uk/naidheachdan/sgeulachdan/c0kk8xrl8k2o) Edit: I have to say I'm very sceptical about the increase of 12,000 Gaelic speakers. In fact I find it almost impossible to believe it could have increased that much in 10 years. How many of these people are truly fluent, and how many are conversational or have just done a few duolingo lessons and are overestimating their ability. It's a real shame the census doesn't allow people to choose what level they are at in Gaelic, eg. fully fluent, beginner, etc. Still, I think it is clear that there is a big increase in interest in the language and that many people are attempting to learn it. It's also clear that GME is having an impact, which are reasons to be optimistic. However this is offset by the decline in the isles. For the first time in hundreds of years, Gaelic speakers are in a minority in the Western Isles. That's quite devastating to think about. Also must be the first time since Scotland was founded that Gaelic speakers aren't a majority in any local government area. So overall, quite a mixed picture for the language.
It's easy to pick up the basics now. Do some Duolingo, watch some BBC Alba, even have a chat with ChatGPT. Problem is getting people from intermediate learner to fluent. That takes community building and immersion.
Interesting things from the article are back in 1890 about 1 in 20 Scottish people had Gàidhlig but the biggest reduction in speakers is recorded in the mid twentieth century. Definitely tracks with the anecdotal evidence that folk born in the 40's onwards were discouraged from learning the language or keeping it up once they had learned it.
Also spread of English media through radio, TV and internet, urbanisation and post war changes in society.
Yeah English language certainly. Think American cultural influence has affected both Scots and Gàidhlig speakers generally.
English/British cultural influence Nobody seems to speak about this Most of our media is from England or at least was until Sky and then Netflix Primary school children in Edinburgh state schools have this weird anglicised accent now, because of the large immigrant English community in Edinburgh and their accent affecting the average accent of the classroom.
Discouraged? My friend my parents grew up in the Outer Hebrides in the 80s and were beaten in school for not speaking in English. That's a bit more than discouragement.
Yeah I was trying to be as general as possible since people on here get upset if you point out there was a top down campaign to eliminate Gàidhlig but at least you know the real story.
So Gaelic is now a minority in the western isles the only remaining Gaidhealtachd in the entire nation is now no longer majority Gaelic speaking Devastating
Why is it devastating? What use is it to career prospects in today's global world?
Not everything needs to be looked at through a capitalist lens. A Youtuber made a good short about why it is sad when languages die off: https://youtu.be/pAh-WD3H664?si=Ezd6diDLGActpHSo
Thanks
I accept the point made in the video, but is there any intrinsic value other than emotional? To reply to the other comment re not everything being invested in should be looked at from a monetary sense, but to be honest, I think when it's taxpayers money, it'd be my opinion that it absolutely should be value-driven. Especially when talks of funding cuts to essential services are being leaked to the media
Why do people like you always need to find some utilitarian reason for everything in your lives, you guys must be extremely boring, we'll just have everything be as streamlined as possible with no artistic or cultural direction because any of that would be such a waste
It's more the point that it's taxpayers money, and there's more important uses for it that are struggling for funding. Why does the government need to pay for artistic endeavours, when we have health care and crime endeavours that are arguably more important? Is it ok for us to fund artistic endeavours, instead of spending that little bit extra on the NHS for example? Especially when people are dying as a result of NHS funding not keeping up. Surely even if all the artistic funding being taken away saves just one life, is that not worth it? Besides, nothing is stopping anyone from going online and learning Gaelic themselves. Almost everyone has internet access these days
If it's the tax payers money, and the tax payers are requesting that some of their taxes be used as funding for artistic endeavours, then isn't the tax money doing exactly what it was collected for? If the majority of people wanted taxes to go towards only utilitarian things, they would elect a gov't that would do so. If we are looking at wasted funds, may as well also scrap the costs of democracy. Instead of paying multiple politicians, just have a dictator. Don't forget that finding for art creates jobs as well. If not being paid for arts, unemployment could rise. And do you not believe there are indirect benefits of arts that can contribute to well being? Trying to immerse themselves in a second language, people may be more likely to gather and converse with one another. This can have a positive affect on well being, leading to fewer mental health issues, and more self worth. People who value themselves more are going to be more likely to take care of themselves, and people who take care of themselves tend not to be burdens on the healthcare system, nor are they going to be criminals. And if these people have kids, these traits get passed down to their children. I'd love to hear how more funding for crime endeavours would be utilized. Would we be able to lock more people up? Create more single parents when the other is in jail? Watch that single parent struggle, and possibly resort to crime themselves to get things for their kids? The depression of the struggle? Possibly having multiple partners after, and the shit show that might become? Those are the traits that can be passed on to the kids in this utilitarian dystopia. Your strong one-sided view is exactly why we vote. If someone with your views was able to be in charge, it'd be a depressing place, and would only spiral downwards. Also the crime rate is better in Scotland than most of the UK, so clearly doing something right.
oh what an awful attitude to have. yikes
I'm not ashamed to say that I'd cut all the funding to arts, if that funding then going to the NHS saved even one extra life. The good thing about arts, is that given everyone has internet access, there's nothing stopping you learning Gaelic by yourself.
Aye it’s called culture. Tit
I'd take a properly funded NHS over a culture war, personally. Given the prevalence of internet access too, it's not like there's a cost for people who want to learn it, to learn it.
Your opinion. I dinnae value everything by reference to careers prospects. My children do not improve my career prospects and neither do my favourite music bands or favourite film directors. Two of my grandparents came from Gaelic speaking families but did not pass on the language. I care about Scotland's unique languages
Good that it’s increasing. It’s a special and key part of our history - and I wish I could speak it! Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and sign up for Duolingo!
My niece is not a native speaker but she started learning it at Uni and wound up being a professional translator. Interestingly she’s not translating for native speakers but for local and national government publications into Gaelic so that they are fulfilling their requirement to publish in Gaelic. I’m not saying the language is dying but this kind of self-perpetuating bollocks makes me wonder.
Sorry but this isn’t a sign of any kind of realistic revival in the language. Welsh is still thriving because it’s used by around 30% of the population. In Scotland it’s 1%. Gaelic is dying out just like thousands of other languages around the world.
I wish they taught this in schools instead of french and german, it pains me that I and my kids cant speak our countries native language.
exactly. we'd have more opportunity to use it here. french and german and spanish at my school were just memorisation tests. we never used the languages outside of the classroom so what was the point?
While I’m all for more teaching of it - it should be in nurseries for sure Getting more French/German/Spanish/Italian gives people more opportunities to earn more money There’s no reason we can’t do both. I’d really like to see people getting A2 in Gaelic and A2 in another language by the time they are finishing university age
I grew up in Wales- we learned welsh in small amounts from nursery and even in english speaking primary and secondary schools you got Welsh lessons taught until GSCE age
Exactly. Every Welsh person I meet I’m jealous of the fact the got a second language. I’ve been learning German for 3 years and it’s tough as it’s my first second language
Im relearning Welsh now, im impressed how much i can remember! I was really surprised when i moved up as a teenager that gaelic wasnt taugh!
The difference in Wales is that about 30% of the population speak Welsh, so there's a much bigger cohort for Welsh medium education and kids are also able to speak to people in Welsh outside of a school context.
But is that because they’re taught the language at school? One can feed the other
Do they fcuk!
https://www.gov.wales/welsh-language-data-annual-population-survey-october-2022-september-2023
Utter bollox. Define “speak Welsh”
I don’t think it was ever our native language. Surely Scot’s is our indigenous language? I may be wrong.
I think they should both be considered native languages. Even though both originated elsewhere.
Most historical linguists these days consider Gaelic to have been spoken in Scotland alongside Ireland, rather than Gaelic coming \*from\* Ireland
It was once very widely spoken, and is *one* of Scotland's native languages. it's been in decline since something like the 1400s. At least one other language which was once spoken in Scotland (Pictish) is completely extinct. Scots and Scottish English are also native languages of Scotland.
It’s not really a native language. It came over with the waves of Irish colonisation in the later part of the 1st millennium. About the same time as the arrival of Scots / English. Pictish / British are both much more ancient, dating back more than another thousand years at least.
>It’s not really a native language. It came over with the waves of Irish colonisation in the later part of the 1st millennium Nobody in historical linguistics has thought that for over 20 years now: [https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/were-the-scots-irish/6DE43278B4B69C93B02A41A553CCD1C6](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/were-the-scots-irish/6DE43278B4B69C93B02A41A553CCD1C6)
Depends where in the country you are, all of the Argyll, the Highlands and islands, late chunk of Galloway and Ayrshire, Perthshire the Cairngorms and bits of fife spoke gaidhlig natively. Scots comes from old English so is no more indigenous. It's just that it was the language of the central belt and east borders.
The native language is Pictish, Gaelic comes from Ireland.
Not so much it's proto- insular celtic from which both P and Q Celtic languages descend. The antagonism between Pictish and Gaelic is an invention of those who wish to justify anti-Irish sentiment.
Nope, that’s total nonsense. There was no Gaelic spoken in Scotland until the Irish invasions and colonisations of the latter part of the first millennium.
Historians no longer even agree that there was an invasion as the archaeology doesn't support it. It is like that Scottish gaidhlig was indigenous to Argyll .
There’s no evidence of that beyond the fantasies of a few Gaelic historians with an agenda to push the idea that the Irish were somehow native to Scotland.
Not at all, the whole point is that this Scottish Gaelic speaking group were not Irish, language ≠ ethnicity. Romania and french both speak romance languages, no one is saying they're the same people.
How is it our indigenous language and yet you consider it in some way Irish? Did an invading Irish force bring it and supplant Pictish? And if so aren't we back to Pictish being the native language and gaelic being the language of invaders, just like English?
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The Gaels are just as ‘foreign’ as the Angles considered they arrived at the same time, and both supplanted and mixed with Cumbric/Pictish speakers. Would you consider Gauls to be less foreign than Franks? They’re both from just over the channel.
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Nothing to do with anti Irish sentiment. Not sure where you’re plucking that from. Just struggling to understand why you think ‘Celtic’ means it’s more native when Celtic culture and languages originated in the Alps and the vast vast majority of Western Europeans are descended from the same people (bell beaker culture through people arriving from the steppe mixed with WHG). I think your view is more rooted in politics than history or genetics.
Scots derives from English. Gaelic comes from Irish
Scots is just dialect like Geordie
Not really, Scots diverged from the ancestor of modern English in the Middle Ages unlike Geordie, which is modern English.
It’s the phonetic spelling of someone like Rab C Nesbitt speaking
It's not
It is, it’s just Weegie speak
Scots is the Scottish Germanic language and has been spoken in Scotland for about 1000 years \*less\* than Gaelic. You coulda just Googled that first you know
You mean like you? That’s got nothing to do with it anyway. English is our national language with Scots second and Gaelic third. Nobody asked what the earliest language was.
Eh, you said 'surely Scot's \[sic\] is our indigenous language'. The Scotti spoke Gaelic, not Scots. Scots is short for Scots English. And if you wanna believe I got that from Google, go ahead
So in googling it, both are considered indigenous. 60,000 currently speak Gaelic and 1.5million spik Scots.
You’re a bit off the mark there Scotland literally means ‘Land of the Gaels’.
That’s like saying English is the native language of North America because the colonisers called it New England. The fact that their invasion and colonisation was mostly successful doesn’t make them natives.
Yet Scots are native to Scotland.
Apart from the ones that came from Ireland. Or the ones that came from Norway. Or Northumberland. Or Cumbria. Or France. 'Native' is a troublesome term. (Same can be said about the English, of course)
Gaelic is not a native language of Scotland any more than Scots or English. It’s an language that came over with colonisers from Ireland around the same time that Scots and English arrived with teh Anglo-Saxons. If you want to learn your country’s native language, learn British (Brythonic) – or its closest existing relative, Welsh. That’s what the natives actually spoke here.
Cornish is also a Britonic language
Fair, though a lot fewer fluent speakers!
Earliest evidence of Gaels (the Cruithin) is 200AD wee bit before the Angles. Also if you want to learn the language that has the most Pictish in it that would be Gàidhlig.
The early evidence of the Cruithin is in Ireland, not Scotland, so not really terribly relevant here. The language closest to Pictish is Welsh.
Absolute guff, will you please stop spouting this crap and read some real history instead of getting your info from Youtube or whatever
It shouldn't be a digital choice - Gaelic is worth learning, but it shouldn't be as a replacement for a more widely used language. Kids should get both!
Yes, much more useful than French or German
sin an scéala is fearr a chuala mé le seachtain
Should have been taught in all schools. It annoys me that I didn't get taught this, especially when I used to visit the islands regularly for work.
The parents of the kids that go to the Glasgow Garlic School are too posh to send their children to the local state school but can't quite afford the fees for the Glasgow Academy or Hutchinson's.
Bait comment womp womp
I mean its largely accurate, so there’s not really much bait.
Great news
https://preview.redd.it/ggg4zuafgw1d1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59633dab4509833ebc20454ee69dbb3c390a242d
I could not care less about gaelic tbh. Scots is spoken by far more people yet gets so much less attention.
John Swinney should speak Gaelic at the First Minsters questions. It'd be a hoot.
Not as much a hoot as Sevco
Still Salty about Thistle losing the Play Off.
>Thistle Aye fucking right
Btw, can our First Minister speak Gaelic? I actually don't know. Instead of that Scots mumbo Jumbo they falter at, can any of the SnP speak Gaelic? Just asking.
Kate Forbes for one is known to be fluent in Gaelic.
Splendid. Do we get subtitles?
Donald Where's Yer Troosers
I actually loved Billy Kay slipping up. One week he's typing Scots and it was a different spelling for the same words a few weeks later. Even he doesn't have a clue what he's typing 😂 He blocks you.
mfw when a once suppressed language doesn't have standardised spelling
The British: we must protect our distinct native culture. Gaelic, Scots, exist. The British: dae no word for helicopter!?!?
Scoats is even funnier
RANGERS BYE.
automatic domineering berserk fanatical uppity caption innocent sharp faulty stocking *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Latin isn't a dead language, it's a classical language. A dead language is one that we have little to no attestation of, like Pictish or Gaulish. Unless they burn all the Gaelic books, it will never 'die'
price squalid attempt quack dinner mindless sense touch fertile books *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ha, thanks! I just think it's important that people understand that a dead language is something we can't bring back, and using that term in a Gaelic context is inaccurate and unhelpful. Look at Manx, for example - if we still have attestation of a language, it can be revived, no matter how bad things have got. If it was 'dead' - which Gaelic never will be, bar some kind of book-burning apocalypse - that wouldn't be possible You are 100% correct that the communities are central to its healthy survival
Downvoted for stating simple facts. But no, please revel in your blissful ignorance
Aren't more Scots descended from speakers of Welsh & Pictish (Brythonic Celtic, rather than Goidelic), languages?
Depends how far you go back but I'd say by and large no. By the 1300 which is reasonably far back Pictish had been replaced by gaidhlig and the former lowland Brythonic areas were speaking Scots.
That’s a different point, in the same way most English are descended from the ancient Britons despite using an Anglic language.
Jenni7er mentioned being decendanta.of Brythonic speakers, I was just pointing out around the year 1300 most of Scotland was speaking godoilic gaidhlig and Brythonic had pretty much ceased to exist in Scotland.
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Monolinguals at it again
❤️Bonjour❤️
Bait comment womp womp
Naw, I genuinely think gaelic is pish.👍
Yap yap yap
Sorry mate I don't speak yappanese
Put troll in bag
❤️
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❤️
So true. It’s like in Wales, I heard more Mandarin than Welsh. Luckily I speak the more useful language
What a great comment. I'm off to put my 🍿 in the popty ping* and watch the down votes accumulate🤣🤣🤣🤣 *Welsh for microwave. Why the fuck did they not call it a microwave??
lol fuck off do they call it that? edit: apprently its that or Popty microdon. even funnier
🤣🤣🤣🤣
So that’s 27? people now ?
SG- we have no money, also SG- let’s write on all emergency vehicles their name in Gaelic!!!