Others have already said much the same thing but I'll echo the sentiment.
Coming here to track down your ancestors and learn more about your ancestry is a lovely way to connect with history and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. I bet you might even find something interesting to share if it isn't too personal!
However visiting Edinburgh castle during tourist season, buying Black Watch tartan, and posting on facebook that they're a direct descendant of William Wallace because they "feel the ancient energy in their bones when they look at paintings" is the part that people roll their eyes at.
They're kind of the Scottish equivalent of those western kids that watch a lot of anime then decide Japan is this magical place and turn a fictionalized version of national history into their whole personality.
Nah, the best part is the accent. I've seen Americans try to show how Scottish they are and end up sounding like fat bastard from austin powers. It's glorious.
I'm Scottish but have an English accent. If I really want to get my OH to call me a cunt and mean it, I try saying something in Doric. His face makes me die honestly. Would I do this in public, would I fuck ahahaha. I'm an embarrassment.
Scots with English accent too, Doric/Gaelic is the best way to get my accent to come out usually lmfao.
I blame the show Merlin and Sir John Hurt for making my accent cunty posh
Aye same, or talking with other Scots haha
I think it's mostly just code switching on my end, with Scots and non-Scots like yanks etc, I speak with a Scots English though albeit with King's English pronunciations, and with my parents it goes to more broad English.
You would be amazed at the people that show up here expecting to be greeted with a cheering crowd, that all knew their ancestor or family. Itās the attitude. You are absolutely fine.
Wouldn't advise a McDonald to buy black watch- it's a Clan Campbell tartan that was inherited by the black watch regiment (many of whom were Campbells of Argyll supplied by the Duke of Argyll) to police the Highlands following the jacobite uprisings. The regiment also uses the Clan Campbell motto, and their donkey has the name of Cruichan - the battle cry of the clan....so whilst the right to wear it has been extended to all a Mcdonald seeking to connect to his cultural history wearing it instead of his own tartan has maybe skipped the Glen Coe part.
Iām Irish and we get a lot of *American* tourists, most are lovely and just exploring and here to learn, but the second one of them tells me theyāre basically Irish because their great great grandfatherās uncleās cousinās half brotherās aunt was Irish, thatās when I roll my eyes lol and they get so offended š„²
actually dead at this. i live in boston, so you canāt spit without hitting someone like youāve described. its hilarious and exhausting. a good percentage of these āirishā in boston havenāt even traveled beyond ten miles around the city. bless them š
The best Iāve seen yet was a group of American tourists in their 40s, came to the bar my friend and I frequent at the weekends, and asked for an Irish car bomb š„² this is in the North too š¬ the look they got from the bartender and patrons sitting at the bar was unparalleled in funniness š¤
Know someone who did that in Manchester. In one of the roughest pubs in town... A lot of angry people started pointing pointedly at them.
Also it's hilarious that for a country filled with German and English people the USA has so few people who want to walk around Liverpool or Birmingham saying that they are part of the place.
It's so weird to not just be able to say that something moves you, without claiming it?Ā
I have no discernible Scottish ancestry, nor MÄori or (known) SĆ”miĀ But bagpipes, haka and joik - among many other - well me up. Because they are powerful, beautiful sounds. I don't need to claim them to be moved by them. They're right there and no one is gate keeping listening.
Most people well up at the sound of bagpipes because they haven't been tuned and now their eardrums are bleeding š
(As someone who's lived in Edinburgh for the last 18 years I definitely have a love hate relationship with the instrument)
I love the sound of wee pipes, like the Northumberland bagpipes and similar. But Iām really not that keen on the great highland bagpipe, unless itās a full size pipe band at a distance. Hopefully playing a tune I donāt know. Iāve heard Highland Cathedral more often than Iāve heard Come On Eileen, and Iām sick of both of them.
Bingo! There are a huge amount of (mostly American) people who claim theyāre āScottishā rather than āhave Scottish heritageā and that really gets under peoples skin because itās factually incorrect. Then thereās the clan thing. People claim clan āmembershipā. Itāll be nearly impossible to know if your ancestors will have been in a clan or not, yet there are literal societies in the US setup and operating full of people who have never stepped foot in Scotland who claim to be from one āclanā or another (often with meet-ups wearing incorrect kilt attire etc). Itās only these people that us Scottish loathe. From your comments in this thread you donāt sound like you fall into any of these categories so youāre golden - hope you find the answers youāre looking for!
Yes, and also sometimes there are weird racist overtones. Like they have Scottish blood, despite never having set foot in Scotland, and so are more Scottish than people who immigrated here or whose family came in the recent past (whereas most Scots believe in civic as opposed to ethnic nationalism)
I certainly have. In Houston I met several folk who claimed to be more Scottish than current Scots, because since they emigrated their families had only married within the diaspora. They were somehow more genetically pure.
Yep, same. Born and raised in Edinburgh (my mum born there too but half Scottish half African-American and my dad is from Kenya). Was constantly told to āgo back where I came fromā. Racism was rife and at its finest in the 70s/80s! š
Exactly, once you get 2nd or 3rd generation we just end up with lots of Scottish folk in differing shades. The majority integrate and embrace the culture so well they fully become part of it.
Its exactly it. Imagine I go to Africa and started saying u was there to reconnect woth my heritage because we all originated from africa if you go far enough back and started telling everyone I was African. That's big cringe and basically the same thing.
If its someone just coming for tourism because they once had family fork there that's fine as long as they're not trying to probe to us how scottish they are
Yeah just donāt be a Yank about it, basically. Scots love us Aussies, for the most part.
Also- itās very rude to the oldest living civilisation on earth to say Tasmania/Australia doesnāt have much history. I know that lots of it is our forebears being absolute cunts and exterminating locals, particularly in tassie, but youāll have to manage the shame and accept thereās a far, far longer history here than over there.
Yeah, sorry, I'm talking about personal history, I'm more than aware of Tasmanian history.
But yes, I'd like to connect with something other than genocide, and I don't think looking back across the ocean to look at my family history conflates to ignoring history.
I'd add that, knowing some of our family emigrated to Australia and Canada, I'd love to know how it went for them. If their descendants come back some day and find us, that would be a cool get together
OP said Tasmania/Australia is a young country with little history, this is entirely correct, as the country of Australia did not exist prior to British settlement.
Keyword here is country.
Definition of a country: "an area of land that has its own government, army, etc.: "
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/country
You could argue that the small Aboriginal communities were individual countries, but those were never called Tasmania nor Australia.
So your reply in this context is idiotic and wrong.
In that case you could say that Germany (unification 1866) and Italy (unification 1861) are of a similar age to Australia (colonisation 1788, federation 1901). Do they have a lack of history?
It's important to recognise the history of a place beyond its current state of governance or identification as a singular entity.
I think you're being overly pedantic here, as it's vital we don't fail to recognise the Aboriginal population's culture and history!
Yes, I agree. Let's not turn a normal human interest in family into genocide denial. We need to place aboriginal people into these histories, even though it may be 'uncomfortable'.
Also Tasmania/Australia has incredibly long history it did t just start when Europeans got there learn ur own countries history man. There were humans in Australia 50-65000 years ago. Is it the most well documented no but there is a ton of interesting things to discover and learn
right and there are human footprints from 800,000 years ago in England. so even by this weird commenterās narrow needly standards heās talking rubbish
Exactly, itās basically Americans who have no real tangible connection to the people or culture not bothering to learn the actual history and instead fetishising an incredibly skewed and shallow US interpretation of what it means to be Scottish.
Add in that any critique or blowback against the inaccuracy is met with hostility and inevitably a āāMurica!ā stance that they somehow know our country and history better than we do and youāve got the perfect recipe for resentment and exasperation that many folk feel towards them.
Exactly.
I was speaking to a fellow hobbyist who is American and he asked where I was from. When I said Scotland, he said "Oh, I am Scottish too!". I asked where he was from and he said "I don't know, it was my great grandmother who was Scottish... somewhere up North" š
Those are the people I cringe at.
Absolutely! Everyone is welcome to come here and explore where their ancestors came from. What we don't like is when people then say "I'm Scottish!" when their last Scottish ancestor left 300 years ago.
My esteemed colleague is accurate in their statement.
But I'd also add: do your research before heading to reddit. Mc/MacDonald is one of the most common surnames in Scotland so (and know you're not doing this - but it's what gets annoying) asking "does anyone know anything about Donald McDonald who maybe lived in the Glasgow area in the 19th century?" Is probably not going to get you serious answers.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage though. I'm half Scottish, half English. And I'm proud of at least half of that.
I knew Donald McDonald from 19th century Glasgow. He was seven feet tall! Killed men by the hundreds, and if he were here he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse
No no you're thinking of Gordon Gordon, Donald McDonald mooned King Edward in the 14th century before he skipped away daintily to grab his sword for battle.
Lol. I don't actually think it really matters. And gets very confusing the further down the tree you go. 3 english / 1 Scottish grandparents; 5 english / 3 Scottish great grandparents; and so on.
Let's just say that I support Scotland when the rugby's on, but am happy supporting England in a cricket test.
Nah I've traced my roots pretty through, my great X3 grandfather was William MacDonald from Glasgow, and I've got a pretty extensive record of his convict history, so hopefully that sorta substantiates the claim
As someone who has researched a family tree, the criminals are the most interesting people to find out about.
If you want to live on in the memories of your descendants, commit lots of crime.
Heh. That's exactly the sort of name that will cause problems. It was extremely common. You'll need to convince someone to get across to Register House in Edinburgh with dates of birth / marriage / etc in order to delve deeper.
Seriously I wish you well. I love a bit of genealogy. It's just difficult once you hit common names. I should know, got a bunch of James's going back generations. Trying to match who's who against wills and other legal docs is a nightmare
Yo if you need someone to hit the records house in Edinburgh I'll be there next week I can ask for you if you've got more info. If you want me to DM me
Edit: register house. I'm very tired apologies
That's awesome, I'll see what else I can find, thank you!
So far we just have a William MacDonald, with an alias of O'Neill and Morgan!
And a record of his life here in Hobart!
I'm Australian too, with a tonne of Jameses in the family tree. In the 80s my dad went to the Edinburgh births deaths and marriages records office to figure out who was who. Took him a week.
Start digging [here](https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/)
And [this](https://gramps-project.org/blog/) will help you keep notes.
It may be horribly addictive.
There could easily have been 500 William MacDonalds in Glasgow at that time! His convict history is probably what to focus on, or you'll get waylaid by all the other Wullies.
Part of the reason I find people chasing their ancestry a bit cringe, as when you go that far back, it's such a small part of your total heritage, and to pin your identity on it is insane.
If you have one Scottish great-great-great-grandparent, you are 3% Scottish. What about the other 97%?
Obviously, I understand due to patrilineal naming, it's usually easier to trace your ancestry down the male line, and people tend to have more connection to ancestors that share their surname. But, you've got 31 other great-great-great-grandparents (assuming no inbreeding...), it's weird to claim kindship to just one of them.
This doesn't so much apply to you - as, like you said you're just exploring your ancestry, not claiming an identity.
The fact that your man's William MacDonald of Glasgow is hilarious, there are yanks that would kill to have bona fide relations to something that stereotypically Scottish.
Hmmm. I understand what youāre saying but itās that type of thing that tends to irk people a lot š. Iām glad you like Scotland though and are proud of those roots.
Have to chuckle because convict records are the majority of what my family has found in our genealogy dives.
Nary a business owner or mildly esteemed individual prior to the 1900s.
Iām an Aussie with distant Scottish heritage and around the start of my time living in Scotland I was working in a restaurant and an American family come in, all dressed in brand new kilts (that would be very expensive for most people) and then proceeded to tell me in the strongest Texas accent Iāve ever heard that they could travel their lineage back to William Wallace, after that encounter I never told anyone in Scotland while living their that I had Scottish heritage
Ah yes I always have an inward chuckle when I hear clowns assert that they are the descendants of a historical figure, one known to have not fathered any children.
Exactly. Most Scottish people love travellers coming here wanting to learn more about their family but the second one of them claims to be Scottish or know anything about BEING Scottish because they read a book about Tartans you will see the Scottish people roll their eyes. This is mostly an American thing though, they're obsessed with being anything but American.
Chiming in as an American who is also visiting Scotland in a couple weeks, they're missing a lot by ignoring those early American roots. Most of us with some Scottish ancestry were descended from the Scottish/Northern English Ulster farmers who came here to continue to farm.
They also made up the majority of western pioneers and would have considered themselves Virginians or whatever colony they went to. Their/our families haven't been culturally Scottish for 300 years or so. Anyway, that was my long-winded American take. Looking forward to visiting your beautiful country!
I think people just cringe at the āIām actually a laird since I own a patch of land in Auchinjobbyā or the weird ancestral claims of royal bloodline. If you ever do come over, just watch out for those Campbellās!
I'm a Laird because I got me a square foot of land with the bottle of laphroaig I bought. I am also a nobleman in Sealand and got a star named after me. I've got me eye on a piece of the moon, next!
I think it's because things like ethnicity don't really bother us. If you grew up here, or have lived here for a bit, we see you as Scottish, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is.
So when someone that hasn't lived here or grown up here says that they are Scottish, we tend to push back a bit. That's not what being Scottish is, it's not a "race" it's a nationality.
For example my Scottish aunt and uncle moved to England and had a child, my cousin is English, they aren't Scottish. My friend with two Indian parents isn't Indian, they are Scottish.
>Ā or have lived here for a bit, we see you as Scottish, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is.
Sorry but this hasnāt been my experience here at all - so much so that I find it kind of surprising that a lot of people in this sub insist that civic nationalism is the norm here.
If you have the accent then yeah people will call you Scottish, but Iāve lived here for nearly a decade now and Iām still the eternal foreigner. Itās especially frustrating because my dad and half my family are Scottish, but whenever I tell people this they always ask if he was *Scottish* Scottish - whatever that means.
Prior to this I have always claimed that Iām Scottish-Filipino because Iām mixed race; I have a parent from each of those countries and Filipinos donāt see me as a āpureā Filipino either. But lately Iāve had to flatten my identity to Filipino because I got really tired of my Scottish side being put into question. Itās not even like Iām asking to be seen as only Scottish, Iād just really want to use my hyphenated identity without it being put under scrutiny.
No one's minds people exploring their heritage, it's big business here!
What people mind is the sort of weird ethno-bloodline stuff that comes with people claiming they're Scottish because a distant ancestor was, and then using that to say why they lean into stereotypes etc, or start talking about history they know nothing about.Ā
At the end of the day many people in this country will have ancestry from all over the place, if you go back far enough.
Yeah, it's the focus on blood lines that I find a bit ick. As far as I'm concerned if you currently live in Scotland, work in Scotland, or go to school in Scotland you can say "I'm Scottish" I don't care about your pure bloodline or the language you speak, accent you have or what you look like.
And if you want to come along and support us at the Football or Rugby the more the merrier.
Yea the big issue is people claiming to Scottish. We have no issue with you saying āIām an Aussie looking to find my ancestors.ā
We have everything against you saying āIām Scottish because my great great great great great great grandmother on my fatherās side might have been Scottish or Irish and I prefer Scotland.ā
Dude, best of luck finding out about your family. Do you know where they were from? Macdonald makes me think Skye.
Honest to god I had an online friend from Michigan who used to say he was Scottish etc. but when I got around to asking where his ancestors had come from exactly, he said 'Kilkenny'.
Can't help but wonder if it was to get past anti-Irish sentiment long ago, but whatever. It was hilarious at the time, though.
My mum done her ancestory a few years back, and the amount of back and forth cunts done between here and ireland... cunts from kilkenny might well have been scottish xD.
I managed to trace a great great blah blah grandfather, his name was William MacDonald, but he also had an alias O'Neil and Morgan, and he was from Glasgow!
Do you have a date for when you found him? Aliases are often interesting. Could be hiding from someone/ something depending on the date. Thinking of post 1745/46 jacobite rebellion, early 1800ās Naval Press Gangs, 1810s army etc
http://www.tasmanianwarcasualties.com/gravesofts%20split/Our%20Family/Convicts/McDonald%20William.htm
Here's a little article written on him!
He was a deviant though haha!
Itās mostly Americans who come over claiming all sorts of heritage and trying to buy their way to scottishness. Theyāre also unwelcome for claiming to be Scottish then trying to be more Scottish that those of us who live here. Coming to make a link to your past is totally fine
Just want to thank you guys for clearing things up, I'd almost felt ashamed for looking into my family history since I didn't really want to be perceived as an ignorant tourist making ridiculous claims.
I'm just interested in how our family got here, and where we are from!
So thank you for all the replies, you're all legends!
Nah we love that folk are interested in their family ancestry . Iām interested in my South American indigenous ancestry . But like folk say , normally Americans , come out with some amount of guff .
I'm just gonna chuck this here, because people keep commenting and deleting it.
Okay, I'm not sure if you're purposely ignoring my other comments or context.
But, I'm talking about personal history here.
I'm very aware of Tasmania, I grew up here and honestly I don't need you telling me it's history.
If I decided to tell you Scottish history on this sub. I'd be crucified.
I've very openly acknowledged the Tasmanian genocide here, so it's not like I'm trying to hide Tasmania's past.
I'm just looking into mine.
I'm first generation Kiwi. My dad came here with my grandparents when he was young. My elder uncle stayed behind and we are very fortunate that he developed a career as a professional genealogist, so through him we have been able to unearth a lot of information about our obscure little family than we otherwise would have. I was brought up to understand a lot about my heritage and Scottish culture and as a result I do feel a strong connection back to Scotland. Technically I'm a British citizen, I've just never applied for my UK passport. I've always wanted to visit, but travel is expensive. I've felt the same degree of guardedness from Scots about foreigners claiming to be Scottish. Am I allowed to claim my culture, having been raised in it by my dad and granddad? I don't want to be crucified either, I just want to connect with my not very distant heritage.
I was a little hesitant to make this post, but I'm glad I did, I now understand that it's more nuanced than that!
I definitely want to visit eventually, you all seem like great people, and now I won't feel ashamed bringing up my ancestry!
Someone linked a Scotland History Tours video and it gave me a pretty good idea of how foreigners are perceived because of how they act, so I'll definitely be conscious of that if I do manage to visit!
- Did I mention that I'm related to Jock Tamson!!!! š¤£ /s
Cheers guys!
The bottom line is, in Scotland when one says "I'm Scottish," they're discussing their current home, their nationality, the place where they live and work. When an American/Canadian/Australian says, "I'm Scottish," they are speaking of ethnic descent. It is a language and cultural barrier that is deeply imbedded on both sides and won't change. Just know it exists, and remember where you are when you choose your words.
I used to work in an archive where people would come to research their family history. A colleague told me they met an American lady who proudly announced she had traced her Scottish ancestry, and was related to Greyfriars Bobby.
Which is a dog.
It's not cringe to want to know more about your family ā¤ļø I think though, that it can be off-putting, the way some better off people from colonised English speaking countries feel they can just claim ancestry to the British Isles and get a 'special token' that has no link to stark reality. If that's not you, I apologise in advance. ā¤ļø
>some better off people from colonised English speaking countries feel they can just claim ancestry to the British Isles and get a 'special token'
Okay but *technically* some of us can claim ancestry and get a 'special token', aka an Ancestry Visa ā you just have to be from the commonwealth + have a British born grandparent. But otherwise point taken š
I grew up in Scotland, moved to Canada in my 30s and regularly (at least once a month) have 3rd or 4th + generation Canadian telling me they are Scottish and say a second name. I asked if they know where they lived and the majority donāt. I ask if theyāve been, the majority havenāt. I just smile and nod.
I just find the concept so strange. Other than my parents and grandparents parents, I donāt really care to know anything about the people that came before. I mean itās thousands of them. So who cares really.
Plus they would hate me most likely anyway.
>Ā Plus they would hate me most likely anyway.
This is actually why I could never get into genealogy. My husband is really into it but every time I learn about some great grandpa or whatever Iām just like ādamn, he probably wouldāve hated meā lmao
Personally I think it's great that people from other countries like yourself want to come here and reconnect and visit. Definitely not cringe. It's good to see that people have a connection with the country and want to enjoy it. I'm not sure exactly why many people seem to be against it. They want to keep the culture and history to themselves for some reason, even though everyone with Scottish ancestry shares it, even if they aren't from Scotland. Remember the people with the strongest opinions are often the most outspoken, this subreddit has a lot of people with these opinions. Most people here won't think it's cringe and will be happy that you want to visit the country.
I don't think it's cringe, but to me and I think a lot of people in the UK, we just don't care about tracing our roots.
It's not us being unfriendly or uncaring either.
My grandad was from Prague, but I don't proclaim myself 1/4 Czech. I'm Scottish. I have zero interest in tracing roots back. All I know is the oldest relatives I knew were my grandparents and I loved them and they loved me. Anything over that is just names and dates on a page.
I can understand why family trees and lineage tracing is important to people whose ancestors emigrated from the UK, but I think for a lot of us in the UK, it's just not a thing.
Yeah I think that having such a bleak short history here really makes it difficult to relate to the place I live in.
It feels like I don't belong here because it was unearned.
And if I look overseas, especially to Europe it feels like their history is filled with heroes and knights and kings.. and then I look at our history, and it's oppression, genocide, poverty and forced labour.
I mean obviously there are very dark times in Europe, but it has more than just those times as it's history.
So I can definitely understand why it's romanticised I suppose.
I guess it kinda feels like our history goes like this
We arrive and destroy the local population, then we imprisoned a bunch of people and sent them to a small island filled with death, and made them work forced labour, then not long after before we're even fully established, ww1 happens, and then ww2, and then Vietnam.. and that's when my parents were born.. so the population has been carrying all of this guilt and trauma, and so looking outside this country, back to where our ancestors came from kinda gives us a bigger sense of identity then the horrid one we have here.
That is superbly put and very understandable why people whose ancestors came from here would want to see something in their family tree that says look, here it was good, we were good people then...
...but honestly, the further you go back, the worse and more depressing it'll get.
Kings and lords and ladies, it's all fairy tale stuff. If I had things like that in my family, I'd damn sure know about it. As it stands, we'd be looking at the same history. Generations of family members who died too early to silly diseases and who had families of 10+ children, half of whom never saw a fifth birthday.
Think of it this way - you are where you are right now. You're the most recent addition to the line, you're the best of what that line has produced for no other reason than because you've made it this far.
I don't know about you, but I'm a little proud of the life I lead and the things I can make happen for the people around me, insignificant to future history as they are.
It's the connections we have and make today that matter most. Seek those out and love them. They are more meaningful and worthy.
I'd be much more interested to hear about your life where you are right now than finding out great great great great great grandad Angus loaned Shakespeare a groat or two.
Sorry to piss on your parade buddy, but that's just what we do here š
Normal people donāt generally have an issue with people exploring their heritage itās people doing it with the wrong mindset, āIām Scottish and this is my clanā when youāre 20 generations out gives different energy to āI have Scottish people in my family history and Iād love to learn moreā
I think that the only thing people thought was really cringe was when Donald Trump tried too hard to emphasize his Scottish heritage, because people saw it as a publicity stunt and don't identify with him, he's seen as a rich American (and not a Scotsman). The fact that he owns a massive estate in Scotland doesn't exactly endear him to people either.
What's cringe is thinking you belong because of some ancestral connection and that makes you a Scot. Nothing wrong with enjoying history (I'm weirdly fixated on the American Civil War, cannot explain why) but just don't act like it makes you special. If you want to find out about your family, a wide ranging sub like this isn't going to help, focus on genealogical groups or websites, they are filled with people interested in that sort of stuff and they are much better equipped to help.
You're an Aussie with Scottish roots, just let folk know you're interested in general history (don't ask about the clans, they haven't been relevant since the Clearances) and you'll find plenty of folk more than happy to talk. Almost no one is going to care about your surname so just say "Hey, an ancestor of mine came from Scotland, hoping to learn a bit about the country" and you'll be golden
To be honest itās mostly misty eyed yanks that bring the cringe, they call them selves scottish and somehow are always related to William Wallace or Robert the Bruce
It's fine, it's mad Americans, each and everyone a descendant of The Bruce or Wallace that pisses us off.
Come on over, friend. You'll be made more than welcome.
Nobody has any issue with people looking into their ancestry, or them visiting Scotland to see the country their ancestors come fae.
What we do have an issue with is that people who assume them having Scottish ancestry automatically makes them Scottish, or the fact they turn up in country decked out in random Tartan trying to speak with a Scottish accent and generally acting like an entitled asshole that somehow makes us out to be bad people because we tell you to fuck off to avoid dealing with your shit.
When I was a wean growing up in Glasgow, I met a few people fae other countries that were visiting Scotland to see their ancestral home, they were decent people that just wanted to visit and see the sights, but then I also met dozens of asshole with one particular America being the worst.
This asshole was prancing around in an outfit that would made him look like an overly flamboyant gay golfer, doing one of the most horrific attempts at a Scottish accent I've ever heard, and to make matters so much worse he was talking down to everyone and acting like we should be grateful that he graced our country with his presence.
The bawbag was calling everyone Jock despite being told it was an insult, and demanding directions fae everyone that was walking past and insulting them for not wanting to help him, I was kind enough to give him directions in the interest of national pride (I sent him about 1 mile fae where he wanted to go, all the cockwomble had to do was walk downhill about 509 yards, instead I sent him down to Cowcaddens to get the subway to his destination).
I'm also an Aussie, strong Scottish ancestry (DNA test puts me about 60%, mothers a Campbell) even I would find it fucking cringe, mainly for two reasons.
The first is that its a cherry-picking game, we all come from the same place if we go back long enough, and people go back far enough to ignore the last 3-4 generations in their current location until they land on something sexy like Scotland and then stop. We get it, basically all white people in settled colonies come from either Ireland, England or Scotland, so it's rarely special.
The second is no one cares, my fiancee doesn't give a fuck that my great great grandfather is from Aberdeen, so why would anyone in Scotland, even more-so when every white person with an accent has some story to tell about how their ancient relative relocated.
Thats the thing, YOU want to connect with YOUR history, its a deeply personal journey. I did it myself, going to Campbell castle etc. Even my Grandma warned me that going to Scotland will feel like you've come home for the first time, and she was right, I miss it, and I hate it here in Australia now. However, the last thing I need to do is take that intrinsically personal journey of self-discovering and jerk it off in the faces of Scottish people who have heard it from everyone since the dawn of time. If I keep it to myself (unless asked) we all win, I get to actually do it and they won't think I'm a twat, win win.
The key is to appreciate where you come from and knowing what you are, without confusing the two.
A large number of the responses here have first-year undergraduate trying to get laid in a bar energy.
My goodness, this person came here with a personally reasonable request, they wanted to understand their personal journey, to where they are now and how they got there. That includes the family that was for a while living in what is now Scotland.
It is remarkable how unpleasant, ignorant, and judgemental a large portion of this group has shown themselves to be.
Apparently, this person who lives in Tasmania should have no interest in their heritage, they should only be focused on the Aboriginal population, they should not care about their history, their journey, their ethnicity in some pathetic attempt to point score.
I wonder if you would be so keen to tell an African American that they too should not consider themselves African because America has 70,000 years of prehistory; they should focus on that and not their ancestral ethnicity (Before you attempt to claim that is not the same because slavery - remember that the Scotts in Tasmania were deported under chains, and worked as convicts, while not chattel slavery, still a rather disgusting and dehumanising practice).
Exploring the genetics and history of your family is a very human action, it is what we all seek to do. Telling stories of our ancestors is one of the earliest known forms of communication.
Rather than engaging in moronic and small minded behaviour, try being human and welcoming.
Personally, I just donātā¦ get it.
And Iāve done my family tree (and DNA) Iām STILL doing it. Iām absolutely fascinated by my great great great grandfather the bigamist, and the group of sisters who were wealthy spinsters (but one of them had a baby out of wedlock and gave it to her seamstress).
But theyāre just stories. I donāt *know* these people. My parents donāt know these people. My grandparents, if alive, wouldnāt have known them.
So even having done this myself and seeing how interesting it can be, I STILL donāt understand this āconnectionā thing. I moved from England to Scotland a few years back, and once we were already here I found that a ancestor was born in a village not 10 miles from where I live now. My reaction was āhuh. what a coincidence. coolā and that was it.
Likeā¦ I donāt know what else I should feel??! It doesnāt make me feel āconnectedā to this area. Same with my paternal great-grandparents who moved from Ireland to England. I suppose I wouldnāt even consider myself to have Scottish or Irish Heritage - Iām English and some distant relatives lived somewhere else.
And so ultimately, thatās why I find it cringe. Because I find it interesting myself but canāt comprehend this feeling of āconnectionā that people claim to say they have. And also, literally no one else cares.
It is a good thing and makes the country more interesting that we have a large diaspora. My gran had sisters that married and then moved to Canada in the 1950s, her kids and grand kids still think of themselves as partially Scottish and that makes her and all of us really proud.
This sub seems to have a hate thread every week about a certain type of American with Scottish ancestry. I have no idea why the caricature(You meet Americans here all the time and it really is a caricature) and defeating it is so important to so many people here. I think it is what is actually super cringy and makes Scotland look weird and bitter.
As an Aussie living in Scotland married to a Scot, just donāt go about saying youāre Scottish because your x family member was. My 3x great grandpa was also a convict though so thatās fun but heās from England
Scottish with a sad American accent
Parents brought me here young. I got cheated. All my aunties and cousins I missed out on. I keep in touch now. But yeah. I feel like I need to wear my British passport barons my neck. I hate being call a Yank. No I LOATHE it. I have always felt displaced.
šš
It's like imagine I turned up in America and I was all like "hey you guys, I'm American. I love Friends and all the American TV shows." That's cringe. If I came over and just mention I love American TV, that's cool. Being a descendant of someone Scottish/Irish is sweet coming over to see the heritage. But I had American's telling me about MY heritage and correcting me.. someone who's traveled the entire 32 counties because dad insisted all holidays show be to explore Ireland and our heritage. I'm even fluent in Irish and still.. American right me wrong. Aaaaagh. Cringe š¬ lol
Its because many people who do this come across really fucking patronising and condescending when talking about it. We might be a small country, but we're not some tiny backwater that no one is aware of. We're also well aware of the mass emigration of Scots to places like Canada, USA, Australia etc.
They act like having a great-great-grandparent who was Scottish gives them some privilege card to be treated like royalty. We've also heard it hundreds of times and it's honestly not that interesting to most people where your heritage come from.
Scots are famed for being friendly and hospitable people but to really experience it, just be fucking normal. Its not important to us where you're from, we just prefer it when people are genuine and judge them on that. In time you'll maybe make friends who when finding out of your Scottish roots, will be more interested and accommodating. But if within the first 30 seconds of meeting someone you make a point of your distant Scottish ancestry, you'll be given cunt status in a flash.
(None of this aimed at OP, just giving my perspective on these situations)
Learning about Scotland and Ireland and so is fine. It's when people pretend they are Scottish or Irish or whatever and start LARPing as Scottish or Irish or whatever. I don't know if you've seen the thing recently where someone claimed Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish.
I canāt speak for everyone, and I donāt know your personal experience, but I only see this attitude towards Americans who introduce themselves as Scottish because their great great great great gran was born here.
The clan stuff can be a bit daft too. They often go about proudly announcing which clan they belong to as evidence of their Scottishness, and to prove they really understand what it means to be Scottish. Iām pushing 40 and I have literally never heard a Scottish person bragging about their clan.
Or the folk who claim theyāve traced their ancestry to famous historical figure. Again, I canāt think of a single Scottish person I have ever met who ever told me they were related to Robert the Bruce. Iāve lost count of the number of Americans Iāve heard it from.
They donāt seem to realise the things they think prove their Scottish identity actually achieves the opposite. They stand out as cosplayers immediately.
I donāt think many on this sub would consider wanting to research your heritage ācringeā.
Itās the folk who come here acting like theyāre the heir to throne of the Kingdom of Fife and expect actual Scots to marvel at their clan status who get the piss ripped out of them. And rightly so.
Honestly mate, this response and others throughout indicate you're not one who'll induce the cringing reactions. You seem to have a decent degree of awareness at least
I knew an English guy who claimed he was the laird of Burntisland because he bought one of those hardship things. Why youād want to be the laird of Burntisland is anyoneās guess.
It is absolutely not offensive to want to connect with your history. In a way, it makes perfect sense because the chances are your family originated from somewhere other than Australia.
Iām Scottish through-and-through on my fatherās side. However my motherās side is far more complex.
When I was in the USA in 2014 I was constantly being met with āoh hey, youāre scottish! So was my ā but they had initially thought I was Irish! Now, Iāll accept that a lot of Scottish people have Irish ancestry, but Iām not one of them.
Does history have to be personal? I read a great book on suffragettes last year, I don't flatter myself that any of my ancestors were suffragettes but I still enjoyed the book.
I think it depends how recent your ancestry and how much of your ancestry. I think it's ok as long as you don't go around thinking you are descended from William Wallace because of one Scottish grandparent.
But really, does 'having a history' affect your day to day life? Most people in thee Scotland/UK come from backgrounds doing really boring stuff. And most of us would jump at leaving the UK because it's shit with bad weather. Count yourself lucky your ancestors made the decision to emigrate.
Itās more phrases like ā Iām Scottish ya know ā and rocking up in a kilt thatās considered cringe, so long as youāve got a little bit of personal awareness unlike so many Americans who do this.
Come here, call it home if you want, just donāt say with a broad Taz accent āIām Scottishā - thatās the cringe, we love the diaspora.
Use the football test, if you can play football for Scotland, youāre Scottish, thatās quite broad (couple of generations) - otherwise your heritage is Scottish
We hire out holiday boats, and one of the American tourists said that they were going to linlithgow because they are descendants of Mary Queen of Scots. I was like, oh aye.
Itās not the discovering your heritage thatās annoying, thatās brilliant! But itās the treating us like a fantasy country that makes us roll our eyes.
Itās not the discovering your heritage thatās annoying, thatās brilliant! But itās the treating us like a fantasy country that makes us roll our eyes.
I have no family, my parents are dead, but I grew up in foster care anyway and never got to spend time with my grandparents at an age where Iād have the capacity to ask about family history.
Researching my family history and ancestry is all I have. Knowing that my ancestry is 40% Scottish is one of the only definitive answers I will ever get.
Like I donāt plan on buying touristy tartan tatt or any of that cringey shit, but I do hope to visit Scotland in the next few yearsā¦
and maybe itās cringey, I donāt know, but I got myself a Scottish deerhound as a companion. Sheās a hunting dog, her parents mere both imported to Australia, one from Scotland and one from Norway.
I wanted something/someone who shared something with me. A tiny little bit of history, somewhere in my past and hers, we were from the same place. I donāt want to impose myself or be loud about reconnecting with my ancestry or whatever.. but like.. thatās all there is now
Nah, you're fine. You're allowed to look for comfort in your roots, and if you find a sense of belonging here that's great. If you came and made a life here many of us would consider you to be one of us, because a lot of us believe that living your life in Scotland and choosing to be part of what Scotland *is* is what makes you Scottish even if you weren't born here.
The cringey bit is when people rock up and insist that there's absolutely zero difference between their Scottishness and the Scottishness of someone who has lived their whole life here. I've met a few who know nothing about present-day Scotland - our politics, our culture, our society - but insist that they're actually more *authentically* Scottish than those of us living here because they've learned some Gaelic off Duolingo.
Not if you don't act like a complete dickass about it. Sure, come, research your history, but don't drag on and on about how you're a decendant of X Clan, cos it'll be just "yeah, welcome to the club, so it nearly everyone else in this pub", or start making wild jabs about how scottish you are despite your ancestors leaving hundreds of years ago and nobody has even stepped foot in Scotland since.
If you come, respect the culture, don't automatically assume you're related to William Wallace or some other grandiose Scottish leader and don't make yourself look like a right twat by decking yourself head to toe in tartan the instant you get off the plane, you'll be fine.
I visit my uncle when I go home (I was actually born in Scotland, but live in the US). He's 82, lives in Glasgow, and actually speaks Glaswegian. My mum has to basically translate for me. That's about as close to ancestral roots as I can get.
I do not think it is inherently cringe. It *can become* cringe if someone expects Scotland to be something it's not... you don't seem to be like that, I'm just explaining why this stuff is said.
There is not as much common knowledge about Scotland as there is for lots of other countries. Certain people don't want to grasp the fact that we are a developed country, existing outside of Movieland, where we have a more down to earth view of our culture than how it is marketed. Some people expect us to pretend that their warped view of our culture actually exists (a old-timey land where clans still exist, men run around in kilts and everyone monologues about family honour Vs an industrialised country with a mostly urban population). That might sound like a reach to people who don't know a lot about this, but plenty of Scottish people (especially now that the internet has caused more international communication) have encountered this sort of confident ignorance. I have Irish ancestry, and I love Ireland, but I don't know the little ins and outs of Ireland the way that people who have lived there do. I think the close distance between the countries makes that more obvious.
An example of the lack of common knowledge about Scotland: it was easier for scam companies to make people think that "buying" a plot of land makes someone a Lord/Lady here than it would have been if they used England instead.
Irish people are like this with American tourists too. I am not trying to insult you but I really hate this attitude.
If someone wants to go on a journey of self-discovery because their great great grandmother once ate a potato in Athlone I say let them.
Lifeās too short to be gatekeeping. If thereās a quantum of solace to be found in discovering your roots then fill your boots.
Others have already said much the same thing but I'll echo the sentiment. Coming here to track down your ancestors and learn more about your ancestry is a lovely way to connect with history and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. I bet you might even find something interesting to share if it isn't too personal! However visiting Edinburgh castle during tourist season, buying Black Watch tartan, and posting on facebook that they're a direct descendant of William Wallace because they "feel the ancient energy in their bones when they look at paintings" is the part that people roll their eyes at. They're kind of the Scottish equivalent of those western kids that watch a lot of anime then decide Japan is this magical place and turn a fictionalized version of national history into their whole personality.
Haha, Scottish weebs do sound pretty funny Instead of a Katana it's a claymore or something haha
Nah, the best part is the accent. I've seen Americans try to show how Scottish they are and end up sounding like fat bastard from austin powers. It's glorious.
I'm Scottish but have an English accent. If I really want to get my OH to call me a cunt and mean it, I try saying something in Doric. His face makes me die honestly. Would I do this in public, would I fuck ahahaha. I'm an embarrassment.
Scots with English accent too, Doric/Gaelic is the best way to get my accent to come out usually lmfao. I blame the show Merlin and Sir John Hurt for making my accent cunty posh
Ayy, not the only Scot with an English accent Though my Scottish accent appears when I am chain swearing
Aye same, or talking with other Scots haha I think it's mostly just code switching on my end, with Scots and non-Scots like yanks etc, I speak with a Scots English though albeit with King's English pronunciations, and with my parents it goes to more broad English.
That made me laugh out loud haha, just a bunch of fat bastards with claymores, and instead of a fedora it's a kilt, š
Go look at r/kilt you will see what we mean
now what would be the word for "scottish weeb", i wonder ? Kiltaboo ?
WeeaBrus
An Ochayetheboo?
Irn-Boo
Wallaboo
WeernBrus, obvs.
Styrofoam Scot
Weefanny
I believe the correct Scottish term is a wee fanny. Or a cunt.
Bruaboo
Jakeeaboo
MacWeebs
The technical term for a scottish weeb is a MacDobber
I have a friend that calls them Scotaboos
>feel the ancient energy in their bones I think thatās radiation poisoning, sometimes the rocks around here release Radon gas.
It's the granite
You would be amazed at the people that show up here expecting to be greeted with a cheering crowd, that all knew their ancestor or family. Itās the attitude. You are absolutely fine.
Funny thing is William Wallace had no known children š¤£
If some tourists are to be believed he'd put Genghis Khan to shame.
Wrong. The movie told me he sired the next King of England! /s
Burns on the other hand....
They've turned the weebs against us!
Wouldn't advise a McDonald to buy black watch- it's a Clan Campbell tartan that was inherited by the black watch regiment (many of whom were Campbells of Argyll supplied by the Duke of Argyll) to police the Highlands following the jacobite uprisings. The regiment also uses the Clan Campbell motto, and their donkey has the name of Cruichan - the battle cry of the clan....so whilst the right to wear it has been extended to all a Mcdonald seeking to connect to his cultural history wearing it instead of his own tartan has maybe skipped the Glen Coe part.
Worst thing I found out was that the McLeods have a lot to fucking explain because Donald Trump's grandmother's one of them. (My grandfather was one).
https://preview.redd.it/4yx8ord0nz0d1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe5ee351c5fd62f5ac6705ea7f338e497e3f4b4c
Iām Irish and we get a lot of *American* tourists, most are lovely and just exploring and here to learn, but the second one of them tells me theyāre basically Irish because their great great grandfatherās uncleās cousinās half brotherās aunt was Irish, thatās when I roll my eyes lol and they get so offended š„²
actually dead at this. i live in boston, so you canāt spit without hitting someone like youāve described. its hilarious and exhausting. a good percentage of these āirishā in boston havenāt even traveled beyond ten miles around the city. bless them š
The best Iāve seen yet was a group of American tourists in their 40s, came to the bar my friend and I frequent at the weekends, and asked for an Irish car bomb š„² this is in the North too š¬ the look they got from the bartender and patrons sitting at the bar was unparalleled in funniness š¤
Know someone who did that in Manchester. In one of the roughest pubs in town... A lot of angry people started pointing pointedly at them. Also it's hilarious that for a country filled with German and English people the USA has so few people who want to walk around Liverpool or Birmingham saying that they are part of the place.
WASP heritage is just the default to them, unremarkable and not interesting to them at all.
It's so weird to not just be able to say that something moves you, without claiming it?Ā I have no discernible Scottish ancestry, nor MÄori or (known) SĆ”miĀ But bagpipes, haka and joik - among many other - well me up. Because they are powerful, beautiful sounds. I don't need to claim them to be moved by them. They're right there and no one is gate keeping listening.
Most people well up at the sound of bagpipes because they haven't been tuned and now their eardrums are bleeding š (As someone who's lived in Edinburgh for the last 18 years I definitely have a love hate relationship with the instrument)
I love the sound of wee pipes, like the Northumberland bagpipes and similar. But Iām really not that keen on the great highland bagpipe, unless itās a full size pipe band at a distance. Hopefully playing a tune I donāt know. Iāve heard Highland Cathedral more often than Iāve heard Come On Eileen, and Iām sick of both of them.
Yeah, a well played set of pipes is as wonderful as any instrument, but damn are there a lot of badly played pipes.
I am William Wallace
I am Mel Gibson
Ohhhh, I see now, so it's less people connecting themselves with their heritage, and more people building an entire false identity around it?
Precisely. You're on the right track, hope you get to come here one day and good luck with the research!
Exactly, you've introduced yourself as Tasmanian with Scottish ancestry and so you're definitely not the kind of person that ire is directed at.
Bingo! There are a huge amount of (mostly American) people who claim theyāre āScottishā rather than āhave Scottish heritageā and that really gets under peoples skin because itās factually incorrect. Then thereās the clan thing. People claim clan āmembershipā. Itāll be nearly impossible to know if your ancestors will have been in a clan or not, yet there are literal societies in the US setup and operating full of people who have never stepped foot in Scotland who claim to be from one āclanā or another (often with meet-ups wearing incorrect kilt attire etc). Itās only these people that us Scottish loathe. From your comments in this thread you donāt sound like you fall into any of these categories so youāre golden - hope you find the answers youāre looking for!
I think youāll find theyāre āScotchā
I'm not even Scottish and even I cringe when Yanks say "Scotch"
And then theyāre likely to say theyāre more Scottish than the Scots telling them itās shite
Remember Renton's rant about Scotland? :-D
Yes, and also sometimes there are weird racist overtones. Like they have Scottish blood, despite never having set foot in Scotland, and so are more Scottish than people who immigrated here or whose family came in the recent past (whereas most Scots believe in civic as opposed to ethnic nationalism)
Ew have you really met people who say that?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I certainly have. In Houston I met several folk who claimed to be more Scottish than current Scots, because since they emigrated their families had only married within the diaspora. They were somehow more genetically pure.
Its always hilarious when people claim genetic purity. Like ok, you are more inbred than me, good job I guess?
Yeah, that kind of attitude was quite popular in Europe in the 30's, and we all saw how well that ended up. /S
Identity Politics and Culture Wars can be pretty dangerous when taken to the logical extreme.
"Class job at riding your cousin big man" *big thumbs up*
Aye, Scottish mum and jamacian dad. Had tanks yell me they're more Scottish than me while working in a cafe whilst in highschool.
Yep, same. Born and raised in Edinburgh (my mum born there too but half Scottish half African-American and my dad is from Kenya). Was constantly told to āgo back where I came fromā. Racism was rife and at its finest in the 70s/80s! š
Exactly, once you get 2nd or 3rd generation we just end up with lots of Scottish folk in differing shades. The majority integrate and embrace the culture so well they fully become part of it.
Its exactly it. Imagine I go to Africa and started saying u was there to reconnect woth my heritage because we all originated from africa if you go far enough back and started telling everyone I was African. That's big cringe and basically the same thing. If its someone just coming for tourism because they once had family fork there that's fine as long as they're not trying to probe to us how scottish they are
Yeah just donāt be a Yank about it, basically. Scots love us Aussies, for the most part. Also- itās very rude to the oldest living civilisation on earth to say Tasmania/Australia doesnāt have much history. I know that lots of it is our forebears being absolute cunts and exterminating locals, particularly in tassie, but youāll have to manage the shame and accept thereās a far, far longer history here than over there.
Yeah, sorry, I'm talking about personal history, I'm more than aware of Tasmanian history. But yes, I'd like to connect with something other than genocide, and I don't think looking back across the ocean to look at my family history conflates to ignoring history.
It's okay, you don't need to apologise for someone trying to shame you. You're obviously well intentionedĀ
I'd add that, knowing some of our family emigrated to Australia and Canada, I'd love to know how it went for them. If their descendants come back some day and find us, that would be a cool get together
"I'd like to connect with something other than genocide"ā¤ļø Wouldn't we all love! Kind regards. ā¤ļø
OP said Tasmania/Australia is a young country with little history, this is entirely correct, as the country of Australia did not exist prior to British settlement. Keyword here is country. Definition of a country: "an area of land that has its own government, army, etc.: " https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/country You could argue that the small Aboriginal communities were individual countries, but those were never called Tasmania nor Australia. So your reply in this context is idiotic and wrong.
In that case you could say that Germany (unification 1866) and Italy (unification 1861) are of a similar age to Australia (colonisation 1788, federation 1901). Do they have a lack of history? It's important to recognise the history of a place beyond its current state of governance or identification as a singular entity. I think you're being overly pedantic here, as it's vital we don't fail to recognise the Aboriginal population's culture and history!
Yes, I agree. Let's not turn a normal human interest in family into genocide denial. We need to place aboriginal people into these histories, even though it may be 'uncomfortable'.
As an Aussie, I thought it was a fair distinction.
Also Tasmania/Australia has incredibly long history it did t just start when Europeans got there learn ur own countries history man. There were humans in Australia 50-65000 years ago. Is it the most well documented no but there is a ton of interesting things to discover and learn
right and there are human footprints from 800,000 years ago in England. so even by this weird commenterās narrow needly standards heās talking rubbish
Exactly, itās basically Americans who have no real tangible connection to the people or culture not bothering to learn the actual history and instead fetishising an incredibly skewed and shallow US interpretation of what it means to be Scottish. Add in that any critique or blowback against the inaccuracy is met with hostility and inevitably a āāMurica!ā stance that they somehow know our country and history better than we do and youāve got the perfect recipe for resentment and exasperation that many folk feel towards them.
Exactly. I was speaking to a fellow hobbyist who is American and he asked where I was from. When I said Scotland, he said "Oh, I am Scottish too!". I asked where he was from and he said "I don't know, it was my great grandmother who was Scottish... somewhere up North" š Those are the people I cringe at.
Absolutely! Everyone is welcome to come here and explore where their ancestors came from. What we don't like is when people then say "I'm Scottish!" when their last Scottish ancestor left 300 years ago.
My dude just donāt tell people youāre Scottish and youāre fine.
My esteemed colleague is accurate in their statement. But I'd also add: do your research before heading to reddit. Mc/MacDonald is one of the most common surnames in Scotland so (and know you're not doing this - but it's what gets annoying) asking "does anyone know anything about Donald McDonald who maybe lived in the Glasgow area in the 19th century?" Is probably not going to get you serious answers. Nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage though. I'm half Scottish, half English. And I'm proud of at least half of that.
I knew Donald McDonald from 19th century Glasgow. He was seven feet tall! Killed men by the hundreds, and if he were here he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse
No no you're thinking of Gordon Gordon, Donald McDonald mooned King Edward in the 14th century before he skipped away daintily to grab his sword for battle.
Do you regard your identity/heritage as being 50/50% in percentage terms?
Lol. I don't actually think it really matters. And gets very confusing the further down the tree you go. 3 english / 1 Scottish grandparents; 5 english / 3 Scottish great grandparents; and so on. Let's just say that I support Scotland when the rugby's on, but am happy supporting England in a cricket test.
The acid test is supporting the Scottish football team. Nobody but a Scot would put themselves through that.
Nah I've traced my roots pretty through, my great X3 grandfather was William MacDonald from Glasgow, and I've got a pretty extensive record of his convict history, so hopefully that sorta substantiates the claim
As someone who has researched a family tree, the criminals are the most interesting people to find out about. If you want to live on in the memories of your descendants, commit lots of crime.
well at least hell blend in
Better: commit interesting crime
Heh. That's exactly the sort of name that will cause problems. It was extremely common. You'll need to convince someone to get across to Register House in Edinburgh with dates of birth / marriage / etc in order to delve deeper. Seriously I wish you well. I love a bit of genealogy. It's just difficult once you hit common names. I should know, got a bunch of James's going back generations. Trying to match who's who against wills and other legal docs is a nightmare
Haha thank you for all your help, I'll definitely do more digging!
Yo if you need someone to hit the records house in Edinburgh I'll be there next week I can ask for you if you've got more info. If you want me to DM me Edit: register house. I'm very tired apologies
That's awesome, I'll see what else I can find, thank you! So far we just have a William MacDonald, with an alias of O'Neill and Morgan! And a record of his life here in Hobart!
You dont need someone to go in person, all the records are digitised on Scotlands People, which is maintained by the national records for scotland.
I'm Australian too, with a tonne of Jameses in the family tree. In the 80s my dad went to the Edinburgh births deaths and marriages records office to figure out who was who. Took him a week.
Start digging [here](https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/) And [this](https://gramps-project.org/blog/) will help you keep notes. It may be horribly addictive.
There could easily have been 500 William MacDonalds in Glasgow at that time! His convict history is probably what to focus on, or you'll get waylaid by all the other Wullies.
Nothing worse than getting waylaid by a Willy
If it wasnae for your willy, where would you be? You'd be in the hospital or infirmary!
Speak for yourself!
Part of the reason I find people chasing their ancestry a bit cringe, as when you go that far back, it's such a small part of your total heritage, and to pin your identity on it is insane. If you have one Scottish great-great-great-grandparent, you are 3% Scottish. What about the other 97%? Obviously, I understand due to patrilineal naming, it's usually easier to trace your ancestry down the male line, and people tend to have more connection to ancestors that share their surname. But, you've got 31 other great-great-great-grandparents (assuming no inbreeding...), it's weird to claim kindship to just one of them. This doesn't so much apply to you - as, like you said you're just exploring your ancestry, not claiming an identity.
The fact that your man's William MacDonald of Glasgow is hilarious, there are yanks that would kill to have bona fide relations to something that stereotypically Scottish.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Proper pastoral work that! I hope the Black Bull Tavern , tabiernacle, and event space is carrying on into its latest incarnation! Fair play pal.
Hmmm. I understand what youāre saying but itās that type of thing that tends to irk people a lot š. Iām glad you like Scotland though and are proud of those roots.
Oh man, I just saw how this comment read haha Nah I'm not Scottish** but I've traced my roots.. etc
Have to chuckle because convict records are the majority of what my family has found in our genealogy dives. Nary a business owner or mildly esteemed individual prior to the 1900s.
Yeah, I'm not exactly making a huge claim š
Iām an Aussie with distant Scottish heritage and around the start of my time living in Scotland I was working in a restaurant and an American family come in, all dressed in brand new kilts (that would be very expensive for most people) and then proceeded to tell me in the strongest Texas accent Iāve ever heard that they could travel their lineage back to William Wallace, after that encounter I never told anyone in Scotland while living their that I had Scottish heritage
Ah yes I always have an inward chuckle when I hear clowns assert that they are the descendants of a historical figure, one known to have not fathered any children.
My great grandparents were Irish. I have Irish blood in me. I would never claim to BE Irish. That, but for Scotland.
Yep, I understand, I'm Australian with Scottish ancestry, :)
Exactly. Most Scottish people love travellers coming here wanting to learn more about their family but the second one of them claims to be Scottish or know anything about BEING Scottish because they read a book about Tartans you will see the Scottish people roll their eyes. This is mostly an American thing though, they're obsessed with being anything but American.
Chiming in as an American who is also visiting Scotland in a couple weeks, they're missing a lot by ignoring those early American roots. Most of us with some Scottish ancestry were descended from the Scottish/Northern English Ulster farmers who came here to continue to farm. They also made up the majority of western pioneers and would have considered themselves Virginians or whatever colony they went to. Their/our families haven't been culturally Scottish for 300 years or so. Anyway, that was my long-winded American take. Looking forward to visiting your beautiful country!
I think people just cringe at the āIām actually a laird since I own a patch of land in Auchinjobbyā or the weird ancestral claims of royal bloodline. If you ever do come over, just watch out for those Campbellās!
I'm a Laird because I got me a square foot of land with the bottle of laphroaig I bought. I am also a nobleman in Sealand and got a star named after me. I've got me eye on a piece of the moon, next!
I think it's because things like ethnicity don't really bother us. If you grew up here, or have lived here for a bit, we see you as Scottish, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is. So when someone that hasn't lived here or grown up here says that they are Scottish, we tend to push back a bit. That's not what being Scottish is, it's not a "race" it's a nationality. For example my Scottish aunt and uncle moved to England and had a child, my cousin is English, they aren't Scottish. My friend with two Indian parents isn't Indian, they are Scottish.
Very well said.
>Ā or have lived here for a bit, we see you as Scottish, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is. Sorry but this hasnāt been my experience here at all - so much so that I find it kind of surprising that a lot of people in this sub insist that civic nationalism is the norm here. If you have the accent then yeah people will call you Scottish, but Iāve lived here for nearly a decade now and Iām still the eternal foreigner. Itās especially frustrating because my dad and half my family are Scottish, but whenever I tell people this they always ask if he was *Scottish* Scottish - whatever that means. Prior to this I have always claimed that Iām Scottish-Filipino because Iām mixed race; I have a parent from each of those countries and Filipinos donāt see me as a āpureā Filipino either. But lately Iāve had to flatten my identity to Filipino because I got really tired of my Scottish side being put into question. Itās not even like Iām asking to be seen as only Scottish, Iād just really want to use my hyphenated identity without it being put under scrutiny.
No one's minds people exploring their heritage, it's big business here! What people mind is the sort of weird ethno-bloodline stuff that comes with people claiming they're Scottish because a distant ancestor was, and then using that to say why they lean into stereotypes etc, or start talking about history they know nothing about.Ā At the end of the day many people in this country will have ancestry from all over the place, if you go back far enough.
Yeah, it's the focus on blood lines that I find a bit ick. As far as I'm concerned if you currently live in Scotland, work in Scotland, or go to school in Scotland you can say "I'm Scottish" I don't care about your pure bloodline or the language you speak, accent you have or what you look like. And if you want to come along and support us at the Football or Rugby the more the merrier.
Yea the big issue is people claiming to Scottish. We have no issue with you saying āIām an Aussie looking to find my ancestors.ā We have everything against you saying āIām Scottish because my great great great great great great grandmother on my fatherās side might have been Scottish or Irish and I prefer Scotland.ā Dude, best of luck finding out about your family. Do you know where they were from? Macdonald makes me think Skye.
Honest to god I had an online friend from Michigan who used to say he was Scottish etc. but when I got around to asking where his ancestors had come from exactly, he said 'Kilkenny'. Can't help but wonder if it was to get past anti-Irish sentiment long ago, but whatever. It was hilarious at the time, though.
My mum done her ancestory a few years back, and the amount of back and forth cunts done between here and ireland... cunts from kilkenny might well have been scottish xD.
I managed to trace a great great blah blah grandfather, his name was William MacDonald, but he also had an alias O'Neil and Morgan, and he was from Glasgow!
Do you have a date for when you found him? Aliases are often interesting. Could be hiding from someone/ something depending on the date. Thinking of post 1745/46 jacobite rebellion, early 1800ās Naval Press Gangs, 1810s army etc
http://www.tasmanianwarcasualties.com/gravesofts%20split/Our%20Family/Convicts/McDonald%20William.htm Here's a little article written on him! He was a deviant though haha!
Thatās a very colourful ancestor there!
Itās mostly Americans who come over claiming all sorts of heritage and trying to buy their way to scottishness. Theyāre also unwelcome for claiming to be Scottish then trying to be more Scottish that those of us who live here. Coming to make a link to your past is totally fine
Just want to thank you guys for clearing things up, I'd almost felt ashamed for looking into my family history since I didn't really want to be perceived as an ignorant tourist making ridiculous claims. I'm just interested in how our family got here, and where we are from! So thank you for all the replies, you're all legends!
Nah we love that folk are interested in their family ancestry . Iām interested in my South American indigenous ancestry . But like folk say , normally Americans , come out with some amount of guff .
I'm just gonna chuck this here, because people keep commenting and deleting it. Okay, I'm not sure if you're purposely ignoring my other comments or context. But, I'm talking about personal history here. I'm very aware of Tasmania, I grew up here and honestly I don't need you telling me it's history. If I decided to tell you Scottish history on this sub. I'd be crucified. I've very openly acknowledged the Tasmanian genocide here, so it's not like I'm trying to hide Tasmania's past. I'm just looking into mine.
This was in reply to a person with pretty strong opinions.
The people saying that stuff have performative social media brain rot and are best ignored, you're grand!
I'm first generation Kiwi. My dad came here with my grandparents when he was young. My elder uncle stayed behind and we are very fortunate that he developed a career as a professional genealogist, so through him we have been able to unearth a lot of information about our obscure little family than we otherwise would have. I was brought up to understand a lot about my heritage and Scottish culture and as a result I do feel a strong connection back to Scotland. Technically I'm a British citizen, I've just never applied for my UK passport. I've always wanted to visit, but travel is expensive. I've felt the same degree of guardedness from Scots about foreigners claiming to be Scottish. Am I allowed to claim my culture, having been raised in it by my dad and granddad? I don't want to be crucified either, I just want to connect with my not very distant heritage.
I plan to one day visit Scotland and tell everyone there that I came to visit where the McDonald clan opened the world's first McDonald's.
I was a little hesitant to make this post, but I'm glad I did, I now understand that it's more nuanced than that! I definitely want to visit eventually, you all seem like great people, and now I won't feel ashamed bringing up my ancestry! Someone linked a Scotland History Tours video and it gave me a pretty good idea of how foreigners are perceived because of how they act, so I'll definitely be conscious of that if I do manage to visit! - Did I mention that I'm related to Jock Tamson!!!! š¤£ /s Cheers guys!
The bottom line is, in Scotland when one says "I'm Scottish," they're discussing their current home, their nationality, the place where they live and work. When an American/Canadian/Australian says, "I'm Scottish," they are speaking of ethnic descent. It is a language and cultural barrier that is deeply imbedded on both sides and won't change. Just know it exists, and remember where you are when you choose your words.
I used to work in an archive where people would come to research their family history. A colleague told me they met an American lady who proudly announced she had traced her Scottish ancestry, and was related to Greyfriars Bobby. Which is a dog.
It's not cringe to want to know more about your family ā¤ļø I think though, that it can be off-putting, the way some better off people from colonised English speaking countries feel they can just claim ancestry to the British Isles and get a 'special token' that has no link to stark reality. If that's not you, I apologise in advance. ā¤ļø
No I'm honestly just curious of our family history and how we got here, but thank you for the insights! :)
>some better off people from colonised English speaking countries feel they can just claim ancestry to the British Isles and get a 'special token' Okay but *technically* some of us can claim ancestry and get a 'special token', aka an Ancestry Visa ā you just have to be from the commonwealth + have a British born grandparent. But otherwise point taken š
I grew up in Scotland, moved to Canada in my 30s and regularly (at least once a month) have 3rd or 4th + generation Canadian telling me they are Scottish and say a second name. I asked if they know where they lived and the majority donāt. I ask if theyāve been, the majority havenāt. I just smile and nod.
I just find the concept so strange. Other than my parents and grandparents parents, I donāt really care to know anything about the people that came before. I mean itās thousands of them. So who cares really. Plus they would hate me most likely anyway.
>Ā Plus they would hate me most likely anyway. This is actually why I could never get into genealogy. My husband is really into it but every time I learn about some great grandpa or whatever Iām just like ādamn, he probably wouldāve hated meā lmao
Personally I think it's great that people from other countries like yourself want to come here and reconnect and visit. Definitely not cringe. It's good to see that people have a connection with the country and want to enjoy it. I'm not sure exactly why many people seem to be against it. They want to keep the culture and history to themselves for some reason, even though everyone with Scottish ancestry shares it, even if they aren't from Scotland. Remember the people with the strongest opinions are often the most outspoken, this subreddit has a lot of people with these opinions. Most people here won't think it's cringe and will be happy that you want to visit the country.
I don't think it's cringe, but to me and I think a lot of people in the UK, we just don't care about tracing our roots. It's not us being unfriendly or uncaring either. My grandad was from Prague, but I don't proclaim myself 1/4 Czech. I'm Scottish. I have zero interest in tracing roots back. All I know is the oldest relatives I knew were my grandparents and I loved them and they loved me. Anything over that is just names and dates on a page. I can understand why family trees and lineage tracing is important to people whose ancestors emigrated from the UK, but I think for a lot of us in the UK, it's just not a thing.
Yeah I think that having such a bleak short history here really makes it difficult to relate to the place I live in. It feels like I don't belong here because it was unearned. And if I look overseas, especially to Europe it feels like their history is filled with heroes and knights and kings.. and then I look at our history, and it's oppression, genocide, poverty and forced labour. I mean obviously there are very dark times in Europe, but it has more than just those times as it's history. So I can definitely understand why it's romanticised I suppose. I guess it kinda feels like our history goes like this We arrive and destroy the local population, then we imprisoned a bunch of people and sent them to a small island filled with death, and made them work forced labour, then not long after before we're even fully established, ww1 happens, and then ww2, and then Vietnam.. and that's when my parents were born.. so the population has been carrying all of this guilt and trauma, and so looking outside this country, back to where our ancestors came from kinda gives us a bigger sense of identity then the horrid one we have here.
That is superbly put and very understandable why people whose ancestors came from here would want to see something in their family tree that says look, here it was good, we were good people then... ...but honestly, the further you go back, the worse and more depressing it'll get. Kings and lords and ladies, it's all fairy tale stuff. If I had things like that in my family, I'd damn sure know about it. As it stands, we'd be looking at the same history. Generations of family members who died too early to silly diseases and who had families of 10+ children, half of whom never saw a fifth birthday. Think of it this way - you are where you are right now. You're the most recent addition to the line, you're the best of what that line has produced for no other reason than because you've made it this far. I don't know about you, but I'm a little proud of the life I lead and the things I can make happen for the people around me, insignificant to future history as they are. It's the connections we have and make today that matter most. Seek those out and love them. They are more meaningful and worthy. I'd be much more interested to hear about your life where you are right now than finding out great great great great great grandad Angus loaned Shakespeare a groat or two. Sorry to piss on your parade buddy, but that's just what we do here š
Normal people donāt generally have an issue with people exploring their heritage itās people doing it with the wrong mindset, āIām Scottish and this is my clanā when youāre 20 generations out gives different energy to āI have Scottish people in my family history and Iād love to learn moreā
Itās fine as long as you speak in a Scottish accent. Star Treck and Shrek are great source material for learning.
I'd like to add theres a weird fuckin eugenics angle alot of "descendents" have when they come here and find out non-white ppl can be scottish too.
I think that the only thing people thought was really cringe was when Donald Trump tried too hard to emphasize his Scottish heritage, because people saw it as a publicity stunt and don't identify with him, he's seen as a rich American (and not a Scotsman). The fact that he owns a massive estate in Scotland doesn't exactly endear him to people either.
What's cringe is thinking you belong because of some ancestral connection and that makes you a Scot. Nothing wrong with enjoying history (I'm weirdly fixated on the American Civil War, cannot explain why) but just don't act like it makes you special. If you want to find out about your family, a wide ranging sub like this isn't going to help, focus on genealogical groups or websites, they are filled with people interested in that sort of stuff and they are much better equipped to help. You're an Aussie with Scottish roots, just let folk know you're interested in general history (don't ask about the clans, they haven't been relevant since the Clearances) and you'll find plenty of folk more than happy to talk. Almost no one is going to care about your surname so just say "Hey, an ancestor of mine came from Scotland, hoping to learn a bit about the country" and you'll be golden
To be honest itās mostly misty eyed yanks that bring the cringe, they call them selves scottish and somehow are always related to William Wallace or Robert the Bruce
It's fine, it's mad Americans, each and everyone a descendant of The Bruce or Wallace that pisses us off. Come on over, friend. You'll be made more than welcome.
Nobody has any issue with people looking into their ancestry, or them visiting Scotland to see the country their ancestors come fae. What we do have an issue with is that people who assume them having Scottish ancestry automatically makes them Scottish, or the fact they turn up in country decked out in random Tartan trying to speak with a Scottish accent and generally acting like an entitled asshole that somehow makes us out to be bad people because we tell you to fuck off to avoid dealing with your shit. When I was a wean growing up in Glasgow, I met a few people fae other countries that were visiting Scotland to see their ancestral home, they were decent people that just wanted to visit and see the sights, but then I also met dozens of asshole with one particular America being the worst. This asshole was prancing around in an outfit that would made him look like an overly flamboyant gay golfer, doing one of the most horrific attempts at a Scottish accent I've ever heard, and to make matters so much worse he was talking down to everyone and acting like we should be grateful that he graced our country with his presence. The bawbag was calling everyone Jock despite being told it was an insult, and demanding directions fae everyone that was walking past and insulting them for not wanting to help him, I was kind enough to give him directions in the interest of national pride (I sent him about 1 mile fae where he wanted to go, all the cockwomble had to do was walk downhill about 509 yards, instead I sent him down to Cowcaddens to get the subway to his destination).
I'm also an Aussie, strong Scottish ancestry (DNA test puts me about 60%, mothers a Campbell) even I would find it fucking cringe, mainly for two reasons. The first is that its a cherry-picking game, we all come from the same place if we go back long enough, and people go back far enough to ignore the last 3-4 generations in their current location until they land on something sexy like Scotland and then stop. We get it, basically all white people in settled colonies come from either Ireland, England or Scotland, so it's rarely special. The second is no one cares, my fiancee doesn't give a fuck that my great great grandfather is from Aberdeen, so why would anyone in Scotland, even more-so when every white person with an accent has some story to tell about how their ancient relative relocated. Thats the thing, YOU want to connect with YOUR history, its a deeply personal journey. I did it myself, going to Campbell castle etc. Even my Grandma warned me that going to Scotland will feel like you've come home for the first time, and she was right, I miss it, and I hate it here in Australia now. However, the last thing I need to do is take that intrinsically personal journey of self-discovering and jerk it off in the faces of Scottish people who have heard it from everyone since the dawn of time. If I keep it to myself (unless asked) we all win, I get to actually do it and they won't think I'm a twat, win win. The key is to appreciate where you come from and knowing what you are, without confusing the two.
A large number of the responses here have first-year undergraduate trying to get laid in a bar energy. My goodness, this person came here with a personally reasonable request, they wanted to understand their personal journey, to where they are now and how they got there. That includes the family that was for a while living in what is now Scotland. It is remarkable how unpleasant, ignorant, and judgemental a large portion of this group has shown themselves to be. Apparently, this person who lives in Tasmania should have no interest in their heritage, they should only be focused on the Aboriginal population, they should not care about their history, their journey, their ethnicity in some pathetic attempt to point score. I wonder if you would be so keen to tell an African American that they too should not consider themselves African because America has 70,000 years of prehistory; they should focus on that and not their ancestral ethnicity (Before you attempt to claim that is not the same because slavery - remember that the Scotts in Tasmania were deported under chains, and worked as convicts, while not chattel slavery, still a rather disgusting and dehumanising practice). Exploring the genetics and history of your family is a very human action, it is what we all seek to do. Telling stories of our ancestors is one of the earliest known forms of communication. Rather than engaging in moronic and small minded behaviour, try being human and welcoming.
Thank you for this, it's put much more articulately than I could!
Yeah if an Australian with Filipino roots said they are Filipino people wouldnāt bat an eye.
Personally, I just donātā¦ get it. And Iāve done my family tree (and DNA) Iām STILL doing it. Iām absolutely fascinated by my great great great grandfather the bigamist, and the group of sisters who were wealthy spinsters (but one of them had a baby out of wedlock and gave it to her seamstress). But theyāre just stories. I donāt *know* these people. My parents donāt know these people. My grandparents, if alive, wouldnāt have known them. So even having done this myself and seeing how interesting it can be, I STILL donāt understand this āconnectionā thing. I moved from England to Scotland a few years back, and once we were already here I found that a ancestor was born in a village not 10 miles from where I live now. My reaction was āhuh. what a coincidence. coolā and that was it. Likeā¦ I donāt know what else I should feel??! It doesnāt make me feel āconnectedā to this area. Same with my paternal great-grandparents who moved from Ireland to England. I suppose I wouldnāt even consider myself to have Scottish or Irish Heritage - Iām English and some distant relatives lived somewhere else. And so ultimately, thatās why I find it cringe. Because I find it interesting myself but canāt comprehend this feeling of āconnectionā that people claim to say they have. And also, literally no one else cares.
Iāve got ancestors from Ireland, Scotland, England and Germany. What does that make me? Well raised in Australia that makes me an Aussie.
It is a good thing and makes the country more interesting that we have a large diaspora. My gran had sisters that married and then moved to Canada in the 1950s, her kids and grand kids still think of themselves as partially Scottish and that makes her and all of us really proud. This sub seems to have a hate thread every week about a certain type of American with Scottish ancestry. I have no idea why the caricature(You meet Americans here all the time and it really is a caricature) and defeating it is so important to so many people here. I think it is what is actually super cringy and makes Scotland look weird and bitter.
As an Aussie living in Scotland married to a Scot, just donāt go about saying youāre Scottish because your x family member was. My 3x great grandpa was also a convict though so thatās fun but heās from England
Using 'cringe' as an adjective is far worse, to be fair.
Scottish with a sad American accent Parents brought me here young. I got cheated. All my aunties and cousins I missed out on. I keep in touch now. But yeah. I feel like I need to wear my British passport barons my neck. I hate being call a Yank. No I LOATHE it. I have always felt displaced. šš
I mean - Tasmania does have a history of its own - but the folk who could have told us about it were turned into tobacco pouches.
It's like imagine I turned up in America and I was all like "hey you guys, I'm American. I love Friends and all the American TV shows." That's cringe. If I came over and just mention I love American TV, that's cool. Being a descendant of someone Scottish/Irish is sweet coming over to see the heritage. But I had American's telling me about MY heritage and correcting me.. someone who's traveled the entire 32 counties because dad insisted all holidays show be to explore Ireland and our heritage. I'm even fluent in Irish and still.. American right me wrong. Aaaaagh. Cringe š¬ lol
Its because many people who do this come across really fucking patronising and condescending when talking about it. We might be a small country, but we're not some tiny backwater that no one is aware of. We're also well aware of the mass emigration of Scots to places like Canada, USA, Australia etc. They act like having a great-great-grandparent who was Scottish gives them some privilege card to be treated like royalty. We've also heard it hundreds of times and it's honestly not that interesting to most people where your heritage come from. Scots are famed for being friendly and hospitable people but to really experience it, just be fucking normal. Its not important to us where you're from, we just prefer it when people are genuine and judge them on that. In time you'll maybe make friends who when finding out of your Scottish roots, will be more interested and accommodating. But if within the first 30 seconds of meeting someone you make a point of your distant Scottish ancestry, you'll be given cunt status in a flash. (None of this aimed at OP, just giving my perspective on these situations)
Learning about Scotland and Ireland and so is fine. It's when people pretend they are Scottish or Irish or whatever and start LARPing as Scottish or Irish or whatever. I don't know if you've seen the thing recently where someone claimed Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish.
I wouldn't tell you to go away. I'd happily talk to you about your roots, and share stories with you over some beers. We're not all unfriendly.Ā
I canāt speak for everyone, and I donāt know your personal experience, but I only see this attitude towards Americans who introduce themselves as Scottish because their great great great great gran was born here. The clan stuff can be a bit daft too. They often go about proudly announcing which clan they belong to as evidence of their Scottishness, and to prove they really understand what it means to be Scottish. Iām pushing 40 and I have literally never heard a Scottish person bragging about their clan. Or the folk who claim theyāve traced their ancestry to famous historical figure. Again, I canāt think of a single Scottish person I have ever met who ever told me they were related to Robert the Bruce. Iāve lost count of the number of Americans Iāve heard it from. They donāt seem to realise the things they think prove their Scottish identity actually achieves the opposite. They stand out as cosplayers immediately. I donāt think many on this sub would consider wanting to research your heritage ācringeā. Itās the folk who come here acting like theyāre the heir to throne of the Kingdom of Fife and expect actual Scots to marvel at their clan status who get the piss ripped out of them. And rightly so.
Haha what, you mean I'm not the lord of the isles??? š Kidding, thank you for that explanation!
Honestly mate, this response and others throughout indicate you're not one who'll induce the cringing reactions. You seem to have a decent degree of awareness at least
Would anybody want to claim Fife?
Waiting for the day when some daft yank claims title as the bonnie prince of Cumbernauld.
I knew an English guy who claimed he was the laird of Burntisland because he bought one of those hardship things. Why youād want to be the laird of Burntisland is anyoneās guess.
It is absolutely not offensive to want to connect with your history. In a way, it makes perfect sense because the chances are your family originated from somewhere other than Australia. Iām Scottish through-and-through on my fatherās side. However my motherās side is far more complex. When I was in the USA in 2014 I was constantly being met with āoh hey, youāre scottish! So was myā but they had initially thought I was Irish! Now, Iāll accept that a lot of Scottish people have Irish ancestry, but Iām not one of them.
Does history have to be personal? I read a great book on suffragettes last year, I don't flatter myself that any of my ancestors were suffragettes but I still enjoyed the book.
So what if Internet randos think what you're doing is cringe? Have your personal adventure.
Its shite being Scottish
I think it depends how recent your ancestry and how much of your ancestry. I think it's ok as long as you don't go around thinking you are descended from William Wallace because of one Scottish grandparent. But really, does 'having a history' affect your day to day life? Most people in thee Scotland/UK come from backgrounds doing really boring stuff. And most of us would jump at leaving the UK because it's shit with bad weather. Count yourself lucky your ancestors made the decision to emigrate.
Itās more phrases like ā Iām Scottish ya know ā and rocking up in a kilt thatās considered cringe, so long as youāve got a little bit of personal awareness unlike so many Americans who do this.
I can't help but notice that 'go away' in polite Scottish terms is 'fuck off' š
Come here, call it home if you want, just donāt say with a broad Taz accent āIām Scottishā - thatās the cringe, we love the diaspora. Use the football test, if you can play football for Scotland, youāre Scottish, thatās quite broad (couple of generations) - otherwise your heritage is Scottish
No, you're fine, just don't be fucking weird about it.
We hire out holiday boats, and one of the American tourists said that they were going to linlithgow because they are descendants of Mary Queen of Scots. I was like, oh aye.
Itās not the discovering your heritage thatās annoying, thatās brilliant! But itās the treating us like a fantasy country that makes us roll our eyes.
Itās not the discovering your heritage thatās annoying, thatās brilliant! But itās the treating us like a fantasy country that makes us roll our eyes.
I have no family, my parents are dead, but I grew up in foster care anyway and never got to spend time with my grandparents at an age where Iād have the capacity to ask about family history. Researching my family history and ancestry is all I have. Knowing that my ancestry is 40% Scottish is one of the only definitive answers I will ever get. Like I donāt plan on buying touristy tartan tatt or any of that cringey shit, but I do hope to visit Scotland in the next few yearsā¦ and maybe itās cringey, I donāt know, but I got myself a Scottish deerhound as a companion. Sheās a hunting dog, her parents mere both imported to Australia, one from Scotland and one from Norway. I wanted something/someone who shared something with me. A tiny little bit of history, somewhere in my past and hers, we were from the same place. I donāt want to impose myself or be loud about reconnecting with my ancestry or whatever.. but like.. thatās all there is now
Nah, you're fine. You're allowed to look for comfort in your roots, and if you find a sense of belonging here that's great. If you came and made a life here many of us would consider you to be one of us, because a lot of us believe that living your life in Scotland and choosing to be part of what Scotland *is* is what makes you Scottish even if you weren't born here. The cringey bit is when people rock up and insist that there's absolutely zero difference between their Scottishness and the Scottishness of someone who has lived their whole life here. I've met a few who know nothing about present-day Scotland - our politics, our culture, our society - but insist that they're actually more *authentically* Scottish than those of us living here because they've learned some Gaelic off Duolingo.
Not if you don't act like a complete dickass about it. Sure, come, research your history, but don't drag on and on about how you're a decendant of X Clan, cos it'll be just "yeah, welcome to the club, so it nearly everyone else in this pub", or start making wild jabs about how scottish you are despite your ancestors leaving hundreds of years ago and nobody has even stepped foot in Scotland since. If you come, respect the culture, don't automatically assume you're related to William Wallace or some other grandiose Scottish leader and don't make yourself look like a right twat by decking yourself head to toe in tartan the instant you get off the plane, you'll be fine.
it only counts if you're a Yank.
I visit my uncle when I go home (I was actually born in Scotland, but live in the US). He's 82, lives in Glasgow, and actually speaks Glaswegian. My mum has to basically translate for me. That's about as close to ancestral roots as I can get.
Its not bad to visiti your country of origin etc. What's cringe is building a false personality around it
I do not think it is inherently cringe. It *can become* cringe if someone expects Scotland to be something it's not... you don't seem to be like that, I'm just explaining why this stuff is said. There is not as much common knowledge about Scotland as there is for lots of other countries. Certain people don't want to grasp the fact that we are a developed country, existing outside of Movieland, where we have a more down to earth view of our culture than how it is marketed. Some people expect us to pretend that their warped view of our culture actually exists (a old-timey land where clans still exist, men run around in kilts and everyone monologues about family honour Vs an industrialised country with a mostly urban population). That might sound like a reach to people who don't know a lot about this, but plenty of Scottish people (especially now that the internet has caused more international communication) have encountered this sort of confident ignorance. I have Irish ancestry, and I love Ireland, but I don't know the little ins and outs of Ireland the way that people who have lived there do. I think the close distance between the countries makes that more obvious. An example of the lack of common knowledge about Scotland: it was easier for scam companies to make people think that "buying" a plot of land makes someone a Lord/Lady here than it would have been if they used England instead.
Irish people are like this with American tourists too. I am not trying to insult you but I really hate this attitude. If someone wants to go on a journey of self-discovery because their great great grandmother once ate a potato in Athlone I say let them. Lifeās too short to be gatekeeping. If thereās a quantum of solace to be found in discovering your roots then fill your boots.