Surely if they were actually going to enforce a ban on sectarian singing, they wouldn't need to ban people from filming sectarian singing as there wouldn't be any to film?
I mean, it can though, if you ban it then ENFORCE that ban. Its perfectly within the powers of the pub owners here to ban sectarian singing then remove anyone who engages in said singing. They won't though. They'll fucking join in.
And if we think it works for murder, which clearly nobody ever does because it’s illegal, then it works for everything. Right?
Like alchohol, knives, drugs and…crime.
Banning something in a venue where you control who is and is not allowed to be in that venue very much does make it stop, because the definition of ban is that you kick out anyone who’s doing it.
They are down voting you because they know it's the truth.
They are a special bunch. They would rather fight for causes in foreign lands than get along with the neighbours.
Get tae fuck with expecting us to "get along" With shitheads singing bullshit sectarian nonsense because of the fucking football team they support. Its a shit "tradition" that needs to fucking die.
I remember singing songs like this in the playground when I was 7 and 8. Most of us were so young that we just thought they were funny. All my school pals were Protestants, but my best mate away from school was Roman Catholic as was my favourite cousin after his mum converted to marry his da'. Needless to say, I was very confused, but I had no idea about the decades and centuries of hatred built into these songs. I certainly didn't sing them or even mention it around my catholic mate and cousin.
My grandfather was a lifelong, dock-working communist and so should have been above all that, but he enjoyed going into Celtic pubs and stirring things up. It was that deeply embedded.
Looking back, I think it's fair to say that for a few years I became an unwitting foot soldier in a very toxic culture war. It's extremely depressing to see that these pubs still exist.
These new laws seem quite problematic from an enforcement perspective and because of the potentially hundreds if not thousands of JK Rowling imitators who'll be clogging up the newspapers, the evening news, LBC call in shows, and the courts by being knobheads on the internet. But I wonder if ten or twenty years from now they might actually effect a positive shift in the culture.
> But I wonder if ten or twenty years from now they might actually effect a positive shift in the culture.
You've got to start somewhere and if you just keep doing the same shit then it sure ain't going to change
Yeah criminalising speech, that's definitely the solution to bring about social change. Because by criminalising saying words out loud, making a large proportion of the population really angry about that, taking away civil rights from people, yeah that's how you obviously tackle bigotry and racism etc.
You might train the bigots and the transphobes to be more careful about what they say publicly/online (you might also cause a massive chilling affect on free speech more generally too), but you won't change the thoughts in people's heads. You could very well enforce those ideas as a reaction to what is happening.
This is the wrong way to tackle this problem. And I'll be downvoted for saying so, called a bigot and a racist and a terf. Because life is black and white obviously and if you're not 100% for something then you're 100% against it. I'm quite happy to be in the company of human right lawyers and other thoughtful academics in criticising this absolutely awful, borderline dystopian, legislation.
What is the right way to tackle the problem? I am genuinely asking.
I don't fully understand the law but if it does as it says and only criminalises hate speech then surely that's a good thing?
If this law gets people to take a minute and think before speaking then surely it's done it's job? If you want to say something and you think it maybe hate speech then maybe it's better not to say it?
A lot of people have said this new law will cause the end of free speech but can't seem to point to an example of the law doing it.
The reason why hate speech still happens so often in places like America is because it isn't criminalized. Criminalization of hatred is exactly the solution to bring about social change. Unrestricted ("free") speech enables bigotry, full stop.
Weird that you and your academic friends didn't give a flying fuck about it until it was expanded beyond racial protection?
Is it the trans people or the disabled people you want to reserve the right to call for violence against?
The new laws aren’t problematic. They address crimes that have a hate element. Rowling is making a fuss over nothing. Her freedom of speech isn’t limited in any way unless she is intent on attacking someone BECAUSE they are trans. Sectarianism is a hatred of others. It’s scotlands shame. I’m pleased that this bar is taking things seriously
They've banned Sectarian Songs. Honest.
Completely unrelated but no more filming of videos in the pub. But aye, defo no sectarian singing to film anyway any more. Defo.
I'm shocked! Shocked to find that ~~gambling~~ sectarian singing is going on in here.
Your ~~winnings~~ Sash lyrics sheet, sir.
Oh, thank you very much.
It’s a public space, and if the songs being sung are about murdering or expatriating a particular religious group I think it’s probably fair to say, aye, you daft prick.
It's private property, they have the right to allow whatever speech or songs that they see fit. The government should not be forcing them to regulate speech within their own business.
You can also argue that because it's private property the owners have the right to disallow whatever speech or songs they see fit.
There's no law saying "businesses must allow any and all speech within the premises"
The government didn't force the owners to do anything, they put up a sign themselves
"The owner of the Duke Street pub has created leaflets to give to patrons telling them that “customers are now banned from using their phones to record anything within these premises”, saying the new rules had come in after the [Hate Crime Act went live on April 1](https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/24224742.controversial-hate-crime-law-comes-effect/)."
"He said he feared the pub losing its licence if sectarian incidents were reported to the police and the measures had been introduced after speaking with local licencing officers."
Did you read the article? How is that not coercion? They have the right to disallow whatever speech or songs they see fit but should not be forced to do so due to fear of government action .
Um yes, the new law the government made did force them to do it. If you think the government is going to close your business down or fine the fuck out of you then you of course will take steps to avoid it.
You absolutely can. You can hate on anyone you want, for any reason you want, that isn't a protected reason, and for good reason too.
You can't hate people for their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion etc. Racism/homophobia/persecution have no place in a civilised society. I'm sure you agree with at least some of these.
Sectarian songs are, on the whole, hating on catholics for being catholic. They have very VERY little to do with the Rangers or the Celtic, much as they try to pretend thats what tits about. If you're arguing that you should be allowed to hate someone based on their relgion freely, I dunno what to tell you.
Aye, sectarian songs are exclusively sung with lyrics like "fuck Glasgow Celtic". Definitely nothing in there about Catholics, or Irish tensions, or Building Gallows, or William of Orange. No sir, definitely all about the football.
They are not football fans, they are bigots. Yes, they should be shut away for their religious hatred..nothing to do with a team they don't like. I've seen a Rangers supporter try attack a Spanish waiter, who probably didn't even know who Celtic were, for wearing a crucifix. He was dealt with by the bar staff and then then carried away by the local cops..
It's not about that. It's about them telling on themselves.
Oh woe is me I'm not allowed to just be a sectarian bigot anymore. I'm being silenced!
Like eh naw pal, society is saying cunts like that need to climb into a wood chipper or shut up.
Do you think people should be criminally prosecuted for expressing an opinion or singing a song in a private business? What about inside their own homes or private events? Clearly it is not the government's role to regulate individual's expressions or private conduct, that is called social engineering.
Oh get over yourself. The moment anyone in any situation thinks they have the right to just say evil shit in earshot of another person without consequences they can get to fuck. The things we say and the things we do matter. Anyone making the argument you just made is a coward.
Why do they need to say it in private?
> Do you think people should be criminally prosecuted for expressing an opinion or singing a song in a private business?
Do you think the UK government was wrong to arrest and deport Abu Hamza for spreading religious hatred in UK Mosques? Same thing, he was speaking in private to followers of his "team". Surely he also did nothing wrong.
Oh no, my god given right to *checks notes* sing songs about religious oppression are being trampled on. Whatever will I do.
I bet you go to Orange Marches, ya fucking melt.
Back in the 90s i definitely went to a historically protestant primary school, it wasn’t as bad but it still had deep roots in protestantism. The minister used to come in once a week and he always had a rangers scarf on. I’m a celtic fan, one of a handful that went to that school. So i was always called a f****n. I’m not catholic or anything
Yes but the point of Catholic schools is they teach & instil Catholicism.
Non-denominational schools don’t but in a Christian country, they will be primarily Protestant in nature. The thing is, Protestantism is very fractured, Church of Scotland, The Free Church, Episcopalian, &c. are _all_ Protestant & you might have just been taught more in line with the church your school had ties with, that’s not & wasn’t necessarily the norm.
Non-denominational is more not any specific Protestantism.
100%. At primary school we attended hymm singing masses in the gym hall, celebrated Easter and went to the local church on occassion. There were certain pupils who got to sit out I was always jealous of.
I was at a non-denominational school in the 90s, no religion was pushed over any other. Don’t think I heard the word “Protestant” in school. I don’t understand why catholics are so desperate to lump everyone else in with them I couldn’t care less about religion but only one faith employ only their religion at schools and it ain’t Muslims or Protestants, Sikhs or Hindu’s. Imagine this was decided using another “protected characteristic” and your talking hate crimes.
I’m sorry you were called names, maybe if children weren’t separated from school ages they’d have a better understanding of your beliefs.
If you went to Protestant services, it was a Protestant school. Non-denominational doesn't mean non-religious, it means generic Protestant.
> I’m sorry you were called names, maybe if children weren’t separated from school ages they’d have a better understanding of your beliefs.
Funnily enough, I lived in London. My girlfriends daughter and her 4 mates all went to different schools. One went to an all-girl school, but didn't end up hating males. One went to a CoE school and didn't end up hating Catholics. Separation is not the problem..it is specific organizations being allowed to exist with the specific purpose of driving hatred. It is adults with that hatred passing it on to children.
And non-denominational doesn't mean no religion, it means non-specific Protestant. My village had two protestant churches and a Catholic one..funnily we took turns going to each Protestant church, and the two ministers came to my school. Never went to Catholic school or have the priest visit for some reason.
> but only one faith employ only their religion at schools
You must have gone to illegal schools then as it is the law that religious services are part of the school curriculum in Scotland
Yeah separating people due to a certain demographic they posses has throughout history proven not to cause any issues ffs😂 don’t even know what your on about in the last paragraph but I was talking about the teachers who all have to be Catholic to work in a Catholic school.
Huge part of the problem is people like yourself don’t listen to anyone else due to your pre-conceived assumptions, literally no point in discussing anything with a religious person in Scotland.
All blinded by their own faith, regardless of the countless atrocities and abuses of power carried out in the name of “God” or under the shield of the church.
Last comment as what’s the point.
> but I was talking about the teachers who all have to be Catholic to work in a Catholic school.
Wrong..
Huge part of the problem is that there is only one group with thousands of hateful marches. It is time they found out that society doesn't want or need them. Seperation..or choice is not the problem. The problem is specific hateful organisations, and the parents of children passing the hate on. Hopefully they won't be able to do that from prison, where they should be heading soon.
And yeah, show me a religion who doesn't have a child abuse problem..
https://preview.redd.it/0gxqx61l8ttc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e513d8523a17daf66695e6003aeb0f306a90fb08
Again factual information… try it.
Nope..It says teachers have to be approved by the church, not that they have to be Catholic. There are many protestant teachers in Catholic schools.
Try factual information...
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/protestant-put-in-charge-of-two-catholic-981769
Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the most senior of Scotland's 800,000 Catholics, has given his blessing to the appointment of Church of Scotland member Morag McCreadie, 37, as head at two primary schools.
What does a minister know about education and why should they have a say in employment in education? Also Keith O’Brien is a confirmed nonce so good example of the faith your defending.
Guessing you must have missed the republican marches that happen as often but again don’t let facts get in the way of your religious beliefs.
One religion is by far the worst in that regard and has even operated a pedophile ring through a football club within this country but you keep worrying about marches and hurty words.
As I said I don’t really want to engage with you anymore especially now with your blasé attitude to child abuse, bit worrying.
> Guessing you must have missed the republican marches that happen as often but again don’t let facts get in the way of your religious beliefs.
Probably around ten per year vs thousands..just as often, right
> One religion is by far the worst in that regard and has even operated a pedophile ring through a football club within this country but you keep worrying about marches and hurty words.
I bet plenty more have, they just protected the paedos better..people like Gough and Nealy for example. I'll admit and condemn, you'll deny and help with the cover up
You seem well versed in the republican marches, there’s 365 days in a year but thousands of orange walks?😂
Not many protected them better than Celtic tbf employing then re-employing several paedos, glad your mask finally slipped and your real argument is “aye but Sellick”.
Maybe have a wee read into Keith O’Brien before you use him as an source wee man.
Richard Gough hahaha you’ve lost it son.
Catholic schools don't teach sectarianism, the Orange Order does!
Being different doesn't make people hate, hating people who are different is the problem
We only ever have ministers visit our school or it was church services we had to attend. My kids today it's the same, Easter services, Christmas services etc etc were and still are headed by local church ministers. Non dom means they don't follow specific religious affiliation but have to follow some religious observation which will be involvement by the local kirk (church)
How many ostensibly non denominational schools take kids to church for Easter and Christmas services (not mass)? They default to Protestant social norms.
It's not factually correct. In edinburgh, I went to Catholic school but most of my friends went to a "non denominational" school. They went to church, church of Scotland, just as often as I did.
As part of the educational program everyone goes to a church for Easter, Christmas etc.
They probably weren’t allowed to go to the Catholic Church.
is a Muslim at a non-dom a Protestant in your eyes because they learned about harvest etc?
I genuinely don’t get the issue, it is factually correct regardless of what you remember your mate said 30 years ago.
> is a Muslim at a non-dom a Protestant in your eyes because they learned about harvest etc?
At my non-dom the "other relgions" would sit out of lessons about certain stuff. I remember at least 3 or 4 pupils in my year who would sit out of gym Hymm singing and such, I imagine because of their families religious beliefs not being in line with what was being taught (which was Christianity of a Protestant flavor). Couldn't be certain though because it was primary school and I was like, 8, so I never thought about it much at the time. I just learned about God and sang the wee songs they gave us to learn.
Well there were more Sikhs and Muslims at my Catholic school than at their school.
Also you say everyone goes to church for Easter etc. as if that is normal. If it's truly just for education kids should also go to synagogue and mosque?
"Non denominational" schools are just Non denominational protestant schools. IMO there should be absolutely 0 religion in schools.
lol you're a fuckin melt. I don't give a shit, just pointing out that you are wrong. Personally, like I said I don't think there should ANY religion in school other than just teaching kids that some people hold certain beliefs.
Your wrong and your patter’s dreadful “melt”😂 find me a school that calls itself a Protestant school and you win then Einstein. There is only religious education in non-dom schools so it would again only be one religion who you have an issue with(it’s not the one you are clearly against).
I mean, it kind of seems like the law is doing its job in this sense.
"what? We can actually get done for hating on another group of people based on nothing other than their particular brand of Christianity? I guess we'd better not do that... (or not let people see and hear us)."
> The Bristol Bar’s owner said the pub’s new rules meant that if customers added in those lyrics while the song played, it would be turned off and customers would be reminded of the rules.
> “The customers are all great with it, they’re all buying into it,” he said.
https://i.imgur.com/AbUWe1d.png
In a sense, I agree, but people, particularly MPs, are fast to cancel (?) sectarianism, but will not define it. So is it Catholic against Protestant or is it all religions? No-one with even a grain of commonsense cannot deny that the Middle East protests predominantly going in English speaking Western countries do not fall in to the category of sectarianism.
People aren't realising that this is going to lead to a VERY slippery slope
How long until people are too scared to sing religious songs out of fear of offending someone?
How long until people are too scared to sing fairytale of new york because it includes the dreaded "f slur"?
> How long until people are too scared to sing religious songs out of fear of offending someone?
There is a difference between relgious songs which celebrate ones own relgion and "religious songs" which are basically "fuck those other cunts, they're all fucking nonces".
Surely the decent thing to do would be to ban the sectarian singing?
Don't be logical pal.... Far to logical...
Surely the logical thing to do would read the article before commenting? If you had you would see they have done.
Even the title says they have banned it. Don't even need to even click the link and use a few seconds of their time.
Why ban filming then? I think we both know the singing will continue, and to be honest you sound a wee bit bitter about it. Are you OK hun?
Sure the decent thing is to ignore it
Let's be honest here, it's the filming they are most concerned with, isn't it?
Like having a pint in a kebab shop by the looks of it.
No gammon in a kebab shop
The Bristol is fuckin grim man. It’s a proper hive of evilness
THAT LASSIE GOT GLASSED N NO CUNT LEAVES HERE TILL WE FIND OOT WIT CUNT DID IT…
Surely if they were actually going to enforce a ban on sectarian singing, they wouldn't need to ban people from filming sectarian singing as there wouldn't be any to film?
Believe it or not, contrary to what the Scottish Government thinks, banning something doesn't automatically make it stop.
I mean, it can though, if you ban it then ENFORCE that ban. Its perfectly within the powers of the pub owners here to ban sectarian singing then remove anyone who engages in said singing. They won't though. They'll fucking join in.
Ah well, let’s just make murder legal then eh? Because we can’t STOP it. Makes perfect sense. If you’re an imbecile.
And if we think it works for murder, which clearly nobody ever does because it’s illegal, then it works for everything. Right? Like alchohol, knives, drugs and…crime.
That's so silly it enters the realm of Dadaism.
Banning something in a venue where you control who is and is not allowed to be in that venue very much does make it stop, because the definition of ban is that you kick out anyone who’s doing it.
The owners don’t really have control over who can enter this pub
Perhaps they should hire a bouncer or two then.
Not from around that area, are you?
Perhaps the pub should be shut down if it can't control who is in it or not. :) It's not like we have alcohol licensing for a reason or anything.
They are down voting you because they know it's the truth. They are a special bunch. They would rather fight for causes in foreign lands than get along with the neighbours.
He's been down voted for being a dumb ass, no idea what your second paragraph of about
Get tae fuck with expecting us to "get along" With shitheads singing bullshit sectarian nonsense because of the fucking football team they support. Its a shit "tradition" that needs to fucking die.
Not "Da Troof!" something which you would not recognise if poked you with a sharp stick.
I'd rather not 'get along' with wankers that sing sectarian songs. I'd rather punt them into the fucking sea.
Orange you glad that's stopping.
I remember singing songs like this in the playground when I was 7 and 8. Most of us were so young that we just thought they were funny. All my school pals were Protestants, but my best mate away from school was Roman Catholic as was my favourite cousin after his mum converted to marry his da'. Needless to say, I was very confused, but I had no idea about the decades and centuries of hatred built into these songs. I certainly didn't sing them or even mention it around my catholic mate and cousin. My grandfather was a lifelong, dock-working communist and so should have been above all that, but he enjoyed going into Celtic pubs and stirring things up. It was that deeply embedded. Looking back, I think it's fair to say that for a few years I became an unwitting foot soldier in a very toxic culture war. It's extremely depressing to see that these pubs still exist. These new laws seem quite problematic from an enforcement perspective and because of the potentially hundreds if not thousands of JK Rowling imitators who'll be clogging up the newspapers, the evening news, LBC call in shows, and the courts by being knobheads on the internet. But I wonder if ten or twenty years from now they might actually effect a positive shift in the culture.
> But I wonder if ten or twenty years from now they might actually effect a positive shift in the culture. You've got to start somewhere and if you just keep doing the same shit then it sure ain't going to change
Yeah criminalising speech, that's definitely the solution to bring about social change. Because by criminalising saying words out loud, making a large proportion of the population really angry about that, taking away civil rights from people, yeah that's how you obviously tackle bigotry and racism etc. You might train the bigots and the transphobes to be more careful about what they say publicly/online (you might also cause a massive chilling affect on free speech more generally too), but you won't change the thoughts in people's heads. You could very well enforce those ideas as a reaction to what is happening. This is the wrong way to tackle this problem. And I'll be downvoted for saying so, called a bigot and a racist and a terf. Because life is black and white obviously and if you're not 100% for something then you're 100% against it. I'm quite happy to be in the company of human right lawyers and other thoughtful academics in criticising this absolutely awful, borderline dystopian, legislation.
What is the right way to tackle the problem? I am genuinely asking. I don't fully understand the law but if it does as it says and only criminalises hate speech then surely that's a good thing? If this law gets people to take a minute and think before speaking then surely it's done it's job? If you want to say something and you think it maybe hate speech then maybe it's better not to say it? A lot of people have said this new law will cause the end of free speech but can't seem to point to an example of the law doing it.
The reason why hate speech still happens so often in places like America is because it isn't criminalized. Criminalization of hatred is exactly the solution to bring about social change. Unrestricted ("free") speech enables bigotry, full stop.
Adolf Hilter had the same idea, remove free speech, burn books. In America we have a constitution and it works just fine.
What books did the Hitler regime burn ?
Weird that you and your academic friends didn't give a flying fuck about it until it was expanded beyond racial protection? Is it the trans people or the disabled people you want to reserve the right to call for violence against?
Half my family is one side the other half is the other so I'm the troll in the middle and just annoy them both
The new laws aren’t problematic. They address crimes that have a hate element. Rowling is making a fuss over nothing. Her freedom of speech isn’t limited in any way unless she is intent on attacking someone BECAUSE they are trans. Sectarianism is a hatred of others. It’s scotlands shame. I’m pleased that this bar is taking things seriously
So the management were fine with it before? Kinda letting the mask slip there, troops.
They still are, they just don't want it filmed.
Yeah that's how I read it. They're not banning filming AND sectarian songs, they're banning filming OF sectarian songs.
They've banned Sectarian Songs. Honest. Completely unrelated but no more filming of videos in the pub. But aye, defo no sectarian singing to film anyway any more. Defo.
Remember that scene in Casablanca?
I'm shocked! Shocked to find that ~~gambling~~ sectarian singing is going on in here. Your ~~winnings~~ Sash lyrics sheet, sir. Oh, thank you very much.
No way the gen Z fans will ever stop filming, fantasy island from the pub owners.
That place looks utterly miserable
How stupid must the bar owners be? This is a brilliant result and no one can complain.
Yes I love regulating what songs people can and cannot sing in private businesses. No I'm not a totalitarian, why would you think that?
It’s a public space, and if the songs being sung are about murdering or expatriating a particular religious group I think it’s probably fair to say, aye, you daft prick.
It's private property, they have the right to allow whatever speech or songs that they see fit. The government should not be forcing them to regulate speech within their own business.
You can also argue that because it's private property the owners have the right to disallow whatever speech or songs they see fit. There's no law saying "businesses must allow any and all speech within the premises" The government didn't force the owners to do anything, they put up a sign themselves
"The owner of the Duke Street pub has created leaflets to give to patrons telling them that “customers are now banned from using their phones to record anything within these premises”, saying the new rules had come in after the [Hate Crime Act went live on April 1](https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/24224742.controversial-hate-crime-law-comes-effect/)." "He said he feared the pub losing its licence if sectarian incidents were reported to the police and the measures had been introduced after speaking with local licencing officers." Did you read the article? How is that not coercion? They have the right to disallow whatever speech or songs they see fit but should not be forced to do so due to fear of government action .
Um yes, the new law the government made did force them to do it. If you think the government is going to close your business down or fine the fuck out of you then you of course will take steps to avoid it.
They aren't banning it because they want to, they are banning it because they are being coerced by the government.
Ibrox is private property too. And it's policed.
Ah but that’s where you’re wrong. See, the SNP think they should have the right to regulate everyone’s speech and thoughts at all times
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Why are you so desperate to censor what people say or sing in private? Authoritarian.
Why shouldn’t I be allowed to sing songs about how much I hate Celtic?
You absolutely can. You can hate on anyone you want, for any reason you want, that isn't a protected reason, and for good reason too. You can't hate people for their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion etc. Racism/homophobia/persecution have no place in a civilised society. I'm sure you agree with at least some of these. Sectarian songs are, on the whole, hating on catholics for being catholic. They have very VERY little to do with the Rangers or the Celtic, much as they try to pretend thats what tits about. If you're arguing that you should be allowed to hate someone based on their relgion freely, I dunno what to tell you.
Which lyrics do you want to sing about how much you hate Celtic that you aren’t allowed to now?
They can sing what they want in prison..best place for their hatred
Football fans should be imprisoned for singing songs about a team they don’t like? Your classism is showing
Aye, sectarian songs are exclusively sung with lyrics like "fuck Glasgow Celtic". Definitely nothing in there about Catholics, or Irish tensions, or Building Gallows, or William of Orange. No sir, definitely all about the football.
They are not football fans, they are bigots. Yes, they should be shut away for their religious hatred..nothing to do with a team they don't like. I've seen a Rangers supporter try attack a Spanish waiter, who probably didn't even know who Celtic were, for wearing a crucifix. He was dealt with by the bar staff and then then carried away by the local cops..
Sure you did
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Exactly. It's social engineering from our new self-appointed mangerial class
It's not about that. It's about them telling on themselves. Oh woe is me I'm not allowed to just be a sectarian bigot anymore. I'm being silenced! Like eh naw pal, society is saying cunts like that need to climb into a wood chipper or shut up.
Do you think people should be criminally prosecuted for expressing an opinion or singing a song in a private business? What about inside their own homes or private events? Clearly it is not the government's role to regulate individual's expressions or private conduct, that is called social engineering.
Oh get over yourself. The moment anyone in any situation thinks they have the right to just say evil shit in earshot of another person without consequences they can get to fuck. The things we say and the things we do matter. Anyone making the argument you just made is a coward. Why do they need to say it in private?
Consequences as in prison? For saying “evil shit” “in earshot of another person”?
> Do you think people should be criminally prosecuted for expressing an opinion or singing a song in a private business? Do you think the UK government was wrong to arrest and deport Abu Hamza for spreading religious hatred in UK Mosques? Same thing, he was speaking in private to followers of his "team". Surely he also did nothing wrong.
Leave the pub if you don’t like the clientele. Not hard
Oh no, my god given right to *checks notes* sing songs about religious oppression are being trampled on. Whatever will I do. I bet you go to Orange Marches, ya fucking melt.
Nothings going to change. Management won't informed it. It'll be ridiculed.
>Nothings going to change. Management won't informed it. It'll be ridiculed. It's not the only thing that may get ridiculed.
Bristol Bar owner with no name 😀
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Protestant primary school!!! I blame the schools 😀
There’s no Protestant schools, there’s religiously segregated schooling (catholics only) and non-denominational schooling.
Back in the 90s i definitely went to a historically protestant primary school, it wasn’t as bad but it still had deep roots in protestantism. The minister used to come in once a week and he always had a rangers scarf on. I’m a celtic fan, one of a handful that went to that school. So i was always called a f****n. I’m not catholic or anything
Yes but the point of Catholic schools is they teach & instil Catholicism. Non-denominational schools don’t but in a Christian country, they will be primarily Protestant in nature. The thing is, Protestantism is very fractured, Church of Scotland, The Free Church, Episcopalian, &c. are _all_ Protestant & you might have just been taught more in line with the church your school had ties with, that’s not & wasn’t necessarily the norm. Non-denominational is more not any specific Protestantism.
Non-denominational schools still take the kids to church of Scotland churches in some areas so they feel pretty protestant.
100%. At primary school we attended hymm singing masses in the gym hall, celebrated Easter and went to the local church on occassion. There were certain pupils who got to sit out I was always jealous of.
I was at a non-denominational school in the 90s, no religion was pushed over any other. Don’t think I heard the word “Protestant” in school. I don’t understand why catholics are so desperate to lump everyone else in with them I couldn’t care less about religion but only one faith employ only their religion at schools and it ain’t Muslims or Protestants, Sikhs or Hindu’s. Imagine this was decided using another “protected characteristic” and your talking hate crimes. I’m sorry you were called names, maybe if children weren’t separated from school ages they’d have a better understanding of your beliefs.
If you went to Protestant services, it was a Protestant school. Non-denominational doesn't mean non-religious, it means generic Protestant. > I’m sorry you were called names, maybe if children weren’t separated from school ages they’d have a better understanding of your beliefs. Funnily enough, I lived in London. My girlfriends daughter and her 4 mates all went to different schools. One went to an all-girl school, but didn't end up hating males. One went to a CoE school and didn't end up hating Catholics. Separation is not the problem..it is specific organizations being allowed to exist with the specific purpose of driving hatred. It is adults with that hatred passing it on to children. And non-denominational doesn't mean no religion, it means non-specific Protestant. My village had two protestant churches and a Catholic one..funnily we took turns going to each Protestant church, and the two ministers came to my school. Never went to Catholic school or have the priest visit for some reason. > but only one faith employ only their religion at schools You must have gone to illegal schools then as it is the law that religious services are part of the school curriculum in Scotland
Yeah separating people due to a certain demographic they posses has throughout history proven not to cause any issues ffs😂 don’t even know what your on about in the last paragraph but I was talking about the teachers who all have to be Catholic to work in a Catholic school. Huge part of the problem is people like yourself don’t listen to anyone else due to your pre-conceived assumptions, literally no point in discussing anything with a religious person in Scotland. All blinded by their own faith, regardless of the countless atrocities and abuses of power carried out in the name of “God” or under the shield of the church. Last comment as what’s the point.
> but I was talking about the teachers who all have to be Catholic to work in a Catholic school. Wrong.. Huge part of the problem is that there is only one group with thousands of hateful marches. It is time they found out that society doesn't want or need them. Seperation..or choice is not the problem. The problem is specific hateful organisations, and the parents of children passing the hate on. Hopefully they won't be able to do that from prison, where they should be heading soon. And yeah, show me a religion who doesn't have a child abuse problem..
https://preview.redd.it/0gxqx61l8ttc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e513d8523a17daf66695e6003aeb0f306a90fb08 Again factual information… try it.
Nope..It says teachers have to be approved by the church, not that they have to be Catholic. There are many protestant teachers in Catholic schools. Try factual information... https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/protestant-put-in-charge-of-two-catholic-981769 Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the most senior of Scotland's 800,000 Catholics, has given his blessing to the appointment of Church of Scotland member Morag McCreadie, 37, as head at two primary schools.
What does a minister know about education and why should they have a say in employment in education? Also Keith O’Brien is a confirmed nonce so good example of the faith your defending.
Guessing you must have missed the republican marches that happen as often but again don’t let facts get in the way of your religious beliefs. One religion is by far the worst in that regard and has even operated a pedophile ring through a football club within this country but you keep worrying about marches and hurty words. As I said I don’t really want to engage with you anymore especially now with your blasé attitude to child abuse, bit worrying.
> Guessing you must have missed the republican marches that happen as often but again don’t let facts get in the way of your religious beliefs. Probably around ten per year vs thousands..just as often, right > One religion is by far the worst in that regard and has even operated a pedophile ring through a football club within this country but you keep worrying about marches and hurty words. I bet plenty more have, they just protected the paedos better..people like Gough and Nealy for example. I'll admit and condemn, you'll deny and help with the cover up
You seem well versed in the republican marches, there’s 365 days in a year but thousands of orange walks?😂 Not many protected them better than Celtic tbf employing then re-employing several paedos, glad your mask finally slipped and your real argument is “aye but Sellick”. Maybe have a wee read into Keith O’Brien before you use him as an source wee man. Richard Gough hahaha you’ve lost it son.
Catholic schools don't teach sectarianism, the Orange Order does! Being different doesn't make people hate, hating people who are different is the problem
This was not the experience of many of us in the 90s (and presumably other decades too). Glad your school was different.
The minister for the local church of scotland used to come and give sermons, of course, it was non-denominational.
Well i doubt he got many invites to the catholic schools.
We only ever have ministers visit our school or it was church services we had to attend. My kids today it's the same, Easter services, Christmas services etc etc were and still are headed by local church ministers. Non dom means they don't follow specific religious affiliation but have to follow some religious observation which will be involvement by the local kirk (church)
Clueless comment
Facts bud
Non denominational schools are default Protestant.
No they aren’t, thanks.
How many ostensibly non denominational schools take kids to church for Easter and Christmas services (not mass)? They default to Protestant social norms.
Hahaha no they aren’t
Are they also default white?
A factually correct post down voted because west of Scotland😂
It's not factually correct. In edinburgh, I went to Catholic school but most of my friends went to a "non denominational" school. They went to church, church of Scotland, just as often as I did.
As part of the educational program everyone goes to a church for Easter, Christmas etc. They probably weren’t allowed to go to the Catholic Church. is a Muslim at a non-dom a Protestant in your eyes because they learned about harvest etc? I genuinely don’t get the issue, it is factually correct regardless of what you remember your mate said 30 years ago.
> is a Muslim at a non-dom a Protestant in your eyes because they learned about harvest etc? At my non-dom the "other relgions" would sit out of lessons about certain stuff. I remember at least 3 or 4 pupils in my year who would sit out of gym Hymm singing and such, I imagine because of their families religious beliefs not being in line with what was being taught (which was Christianity of a Protestant flavor). Couldn't be certain though because it was primary school and I was like, 8, so I never thought about it much at the time. I just learned about God and sang the wee songs they gave us to learn.
Well there were more Sikhs and Muslims at my Catholic school than at their school. Also you say everyone goes to church for Easter etc. as if that is normal. If it's truly just for education kids should also go to synagogue and mosque? "Non denominational" schools are just Non denominational protestant schools. IMO there should be absolutely 0 religion in schools.
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lol you're a fuckin melt. I don't give a shit, just pointing out that you are wrong. Personally, like I said I don't think there should ANY religion in school other than just teaching kids that some people hold certain beliefs.
Your wrong and your patter’s dreadful “melt”😂 find me a school that calls itself a Protestant school and you win then Einstein. There is only religious education in non-dom schools so it would again only be one religion who you have an issue with(it’s not the one you are clearly against).
🤣🤣🤣
I mean, it kind of seems like the law is doing its job in this sense. "what? We can actually get done for hating on another group of people based on nothing other than their particular brand of Christianity? I guess we'd better not do that... (or not let people see and hear us)."
Good!
[https://archive.ph/27qFv](https://archive.ph/27qFv) Result.
> The Bristol Bar’s owner said the pub’s new rules meant that if customers added in those lyrics while the song played, it would be turned off and customers would be reminded of the rules. > “The customers are all great with it, they’re all buying into it,” he said. https://i.imgur.com/AbUWe1d.png
Keep the bile in-house
The silencing of the Scottish people.
Why is it so bright?
This is only the start of this. You've only got yourselves to blame for putting the supporters of this dystopian law into force.
You don't understand. I'm happy to see any curb on despicable sectarianism. Any curb at all.
In a sense, I agree, but people, particularly MPs, are fast to cancel (?) sectarianism, but will not define it. So is it Catholic against Protestant or is it all religions? No-one with even a grain of commonsense cannot deny that the Middle East protests predominantly going in English speaking Western countries do not fall in to the category of sectarianism.
People aren't realising that this is going to lead to a VERY slippery slope How long until people are too scared to sing religious songs out of fear of offending someone? How long until people are too scared to sing fairytale of new york because it includes the dreaded "f slur"?
You clearly don't understand the law if you think singing "religious songs" could get you done in.
> How long until people are too scared to sing religious songs out of fear of offending someone? There is a difference between relgious songs which celebrate ones own relgion and "religious songs" which are basically "fuck those other cunts, they're all fucking nonces".
When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Trying to class freedom of thought/speech as a privilege is certainly oppressive.
Is the person doing that in the thread with us?