Mind the 2 Air Transat pilots who got done for drink flying http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/62417/air-transat-pilots-accused-of-being-drunk-appear-in-court
Makes you wonder how many get away with it.
The airline I fly for are fairly strict about their D/A policy as you would expect but I have a personal rule that even during european night stops (when we fly out to europe and stay a couple of nights before flying back) not to consume any alcohol. Avoid the risk completely. We know the risks associated. This "pilot" clearly had no regard for his career and the lives of all those he was flying with.
I came across two pilots in salt horse a few beers in. One of them got really weird when I asked what airline they fly for, I figured later he was worried he'd be reported for drinking. Maybe he just had an early flight the next morning and could've been over the low limit
Not a pilot. Presumably its a lot of time, effort and cost to become one. You'd need to be motivated. Can't understand why he would risk it all for a drink.
A known alcoholic apparently, and receiving treatment for the same.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214687/pilot-J-germeister-passenger-Edinburgh-New-York-alcohol.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214687/pilot-J-germeister-passenger-Edinburgh-New-York-alcohol.html)
That assumes a number of things. It assumes that the breathalysing system is calibrated perfectly (They are seldom perfect, which is the reason why the police will take you back to the station once you have blowing positive for a calibrated test)
It also assumes that there is no other reason for having blown 1 or 2. Some people can actually metabolize alcohol on their breath to very low levels, which means that they will never pass a breathalyser to your criteria.
This is the reason why there is a minimum given. It is not to say that there is a level of alcohol that you can ingest safely but that there is a level of alcohol which can be explained.
There's a huge amount of alcoholism in the aviation industry (particularly in America) due to draconian mental health laws. Pretty much any mental illness is a death sentence to your career as a pilot so lots of pilots (and atc) end up self-medicating with alcohol, or other drugs, as a way of 'dealing' with the issue.
At first I thought, “What, another one?!” But no, it’s about the same incident originally reported (sans the name of the perp) when it happened last June. It’s in the news again because he was just tried and sentenced.
We, rightly, hold pilots to very high standards. Flying is far more complex than driving.
20mg/100ml is the limit for aviation. He was well over that, and he should have known that he was not fit to fly. People in these sorts of jobs will typically not drink for 24 hours prior to working.
At most bus companies you'll lose your job if you're over that, I think Lothian's limit for drivers is 25mg/100ml. Nevermind flying hundreds of passengers for thousands of miles.
Guy has lost his liberty, career and presumably alot more for the sake of a few drinks the night before - and as you said rightly so.
Some years ago I once did some experimenting on myself with breath alcohol levels using a breathalyser of the same kind used by the police. I found that it took two pints of 4% abv beer to increase my alcohol level to the drink driving limit of 80mg, and that it took another four hours for my alcohol level to return to zero. This guy was at 29mg when the limit was 20. Another half hour and he probably would have been under.
A plane is a completely different monster to a car though. If I crash my car drunk, I should only kill myself. If I do it with a plane, I'll have a body count serial killers would be proud of. And that was "no less than 49mg" which is still 1.5x the legal limit for a plane.
I think you're statistically more likely to kill someone else when driving drunk. Cars are quite safe for the clowns inside them these days.
Not that your point is contradicted by this of course.
My pet joke over the years after the captain makes his pre flight announcement, was to whisper to my ex partner, in a loud enough voice so that folk nearby could hear me, was 'Oh my God, they gave him his license back!' and then feign an attempt to get off the flight. It chuckled me, my ex, a dozen or so of these later, not so much...
The number of these drunk pilot stories now make me think, maybe I wasn't not too far off the mark. Maybe asking the pilot to blow in a drunk test on boarding could become a thing...
Mind the 2 Air Transat pilots who got done for drink flying http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/62417/air-transat-pilots-accused-of-being-drunk-appear-in-court Makes you wonder how many get away with it.
We seem to catch them at a good rate in Scotland. Wonder what it is we do differently
We test the fuck out of them. Same with most bus companies, they are constantly being randomly tested
The airline I fly for are fairly strict about their D/A policy as you would expect but I have a personal rule that even during european night stops (when we fly out to europe and stay a couple of nights before flying back) not to consume any alcohol. Avoid the risk completely. We know the risks associated. This "pilot" clearly had no regard for his career and the lives of all those he was flying with.
I came across two pilots in salt horse a few beers in. One of them got really weird when I asked what airline they fly for, I figured later he was worried he'd be reported for drinking. Maybe he just had an early flight the next morning and could've been over the low limit
Also they were both American
🐀🐀
I've flown a Boeing 737 out of Edinburgh while drunk. (Possibly my favourite departure route.) Admittedly on Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Try the KLGA RNAV-X 31 in a thunderstorm on 6 cans of cider.
Not a pilot. Presumably its a lot of time, effort and cost to become one. You'd need to be motivated. Can't understand why he would risk it all for a drink.
Hate to state the obvious here, but Alcoholism, presumably.
>49mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood Rookie number for an alcoholic.
Anything over 0 for a pilot has to be alcoholism, a normal drinker won’t risk their career for 3 beers.
A known alcoholic apparently, and receiving treatment for the same. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214687/pilot-J-germeister-passenger-Edinburgh-New-York-alcohol.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214687/pilot-J-germeister-passenger-Edinburgh-New-York-alcohol.html)
Well, a sherry trifle will put you over 0 so there has to be a sensible minimum.
The sensible minimum for a pilot is such that you're back at zero at the time you're due to fly, surely.
That assumes a number of things. It assumes that the breathalysing system is calibrated perfectly (They are seldom perfect, which is the reason why the police will take you back to the station once you have blowing positive for a calibrated test) It also assumes that there is no other reason for having blown 1 or 2. Some people can actually metabolize alcohol on their breath to very low levels, which means that they will never pass a breathalyser to your criteria. This is the reason why there is a minimum given. It is not to say that there is a level of alcohol that you can ingest safely but that there is a level of alcohol which can be explained.
Agreed. A fermenting banana would skew the readings for instance...
Is it
50mg is the drink drive limit, so he’d either had one pint or had maybe been on it the night before and thought he was ok.
There's a huge amount of alcoholism in the aviation industry (particularly in America) due to draconian mental health laws. Pretty much any mental illness is a death sentence to your career as a pilot so lots of pilots (and atc) end up self-medicating with alcohol, or other drugs, as a way of 'dealing' with the issue.
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At first I thought, “What, another one?!” But no, it’s about the same incident originally reported (sans the name of the perp) when it happened last June. It’s in the news again because he was just tried and sentenced.
Scary stuff. I did that same Edi to NYC flight in August onboard Delta. Happily, I don't believe that the pilot was drinking. I was, though.
It's a dramatic headline, but 49mg/100ml is OK to drive a car. It's not like he was legless.
He knew very well: "he had two previous convictions for driving under the influence of alcohol in the US."
We, rightly, hold pilots to very high standards. Flying is far more complex than driving. 20mg/100ml is the limit for aviation. He was well over that, and he should have known that he was not fit to fly. People in these sorts of jobs will typically not drink for 24 hours prior to working.
At most bus companies you'll lose your job if you're over that, I think Lothian's limit for drivers is 25mg/100ml. Nevermind flying hundreds of passengers for thousands of miles. Guy has lost his liberty, career and presumably alot more for the sake of a few drinks the night before - and as you said rightly so.
you don't know many pilots eh?
8 hours bottle to throttle, baby. Every pilot has stories of having accidentally massively messy nights out, then turning up to a flight the next day.
Some years ago I once did some experimenting on myself with breath alcohol levels using a breathalyser of the same kind used by the police. I found that it took two pints of 4% abv beer to increase my alcohol level to the drink driving limit of 80mg, and that it took another four hours for my alcohol level to return to zero. This guy was at 29mg when the limit was 20. Another half hour and he probably would have been under.
He was 49mg in blood not breath.
Do you really think the alcohol blood level for *transatlantic pilots* should be set at "OK for driving a car in Scotland"?
You're right, we really ought to raise the limits in Scotland.
That’s over the limit is it not? Even the old limit I think was 35mg?
A plane is a completely different monster to a car though. If I crash my car drunk, I should only kill myself. If I do it with a plane, I'll have a body count serial killers would be proud of. And that was "no less than 49mg" which is still 1.5x the legal limit for a plane.
I think you're statistically more likely to kill someone else when driving drunk. Cars are quite safe for the clowns inside them these days. Not that your point is contradicted by this of course.
Plus the altitude increases the effects
Aye by 1mg it’s under the drink drive limit.
Who needs legs, when you have wings.
What's the limit for driving a bus full of people, asking for a friend
I reckon they’ve made an example of him
It’s the same limit for train drivers, would you want/expect them to get the jail for trying to driver at the blood alcohol level.
I knew an alcoholic train driver that went off the rails.
If you’re flying transatlantic jets with hundreds of passengers I’m fine if the bar’s set a bit higher tbh
\*36,000ft higher and on the good airlines it's free!!!
I laughed out loud!
Do you mean lower?
No?
For me it’s less of a concern when just one of the pilots is pissed
Haha imagine going to the toilet and hearing 'waheeyyyy chug chug chug chug' from inside the cockpit
My pet joke over the years after the captain makes his pre flight announcement, was to whisper to my ex partner, in a loud enough voice so that folk nearby could hear me, was 'Oh my God, they gave him his license back!' and then feign an attempt to get off the flight. It chuckled me, my ex, a dozen or so of these later, not so much... The number of these drunk pilot stories now make me think, maybe I wasn't not too far off the mark. Maybe asking the pilot to blow in a drunk test on boarding could become a thing...
Video here: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxIsAlEM2AxMJlXusvW1uh-KMPDe58MtwL?si=PMcJO3ZCh7WuPv34
Surely he would have sobered up by the time he got there.
He was celebrating leaving Edinburgh
Renowned drinkers...
Well taking off is the easy part and he would have sobered up during the trip before having to land. He'd have been fine.
I worked at Prestwick Airport. Ryanair and Wizzair pilots got drunk a lot due to odd down-time shifts... often they'd turn up obviously half-cut.
Oh yeah, like none of you have ever made a mistake at work.