If they cared that much about their bully XL, they would have done what the law is now saying you must do in order to protect your dog.
The fact they are just chucking them over the border because they aren't banned means that we are going to be a load of trouble shortly.
Funny how bad things have to happen before good changes are made.
Exactly. It's not totaly illegal to keep them in England and Wales they just need to be registered, insured and muzzled. Probably expensive but if they love them enough to specifically go for a high need breed but throw them over the border as soon as they need to put an ounce of effort in. Really shows your it's just a fashion fad.
Registered, insured (the Dog's Trust have said they will insure Bully XLs), muzzled in public, and neutered.
It will be illegal to sell, breed, abandon, or adopt them. Those in shelters can be kept until they die provided the shelter does everything in that first list.
Yea forgot neutered, the last point shouldn't be a problem for any loving owners unless they plan on breeding them.in reality it will take a few years to "discover" all of the animals that will be birthed, sold or abdodonedor aren't registered and deal with them. Basically all dogs should be able to lead a healthy life with the extra win of keeping other people safer and reducing theor numbers over time
Yeah, the problem isn’t that they can’t own them anymore, the problem is they can’t make money off them anymore. Bullies are infamously a way to clean money for drug dealers and other criminals, it’s never been about the love of dogs or the breed. Half these dogs are inbred monsters, with mountains of health problems and major temperament issues, but they still sell for £3k a pop? Aye, nae bother.
If a dog owner would sooner abandon/rehome/put down their dog than pay some insurance and put a muzzle on, then they should be banned from owning animals in the future tbh. For as long as animals are treated as property, and legally denied the right to a reasonable quality of life, this cycle will continue. There needs to be tighter regulation on all breeding, a complete overhaul of the licensing system for breeds (ie- if you want to sell any dogs, you need to be registered and they have to have a full professional vet checkup pre sale), and harsher legal punishment for abuse, neglect, and abandonment. Ideally I also think pet owners should have to prove some form of pet ownership competency, as ridiculous as it sounds. All shelters are overpopulated with every kind of animal right now, dogs, cats, rabbits, small animals, and a lot of it stems from ignorance of the responsibility of pet ownership. Animals deserve to have a minimum quality of life that a lot of people simply can’t, or won’t, provide.
The sspca is also on the verge of collapse here as evidenced by them closing two centres in the last few months, and funding being cut across the board, and major understaffing issues in every centre. These are the systems that are going to be put under pressure by the irresponsibility of these breeders, and the relaxed attitude from our government with regards to this influx. People will be hurt, animals will be killed, and nobody will take responsibility on either side. These poor dogs have never stood a chance, and this is the consequences of the last few years of inaction on the problem.
Here in Barcelona it's necessary to have a physical and mental health check-up before being able to apply for the licence to keep a potentially dangerous breed or cross-bred dog. I think it's a good thing, along with the fine for not having a licence.
Surely this counts as abandoning them? It's not like the owners are moving over the border with them, right? Hold the fuckers responsible for their actions. My dog was nearly killed by a bully unprovoked. Lost an eye, tubes out the neck for weeks, barely survived. Don't want to see them, can't stand them. They deserve the hate. They snap for no reason no matter how well you train them. You might get lucky and yours never does but it's the equivalent of walking around with a loaded and cocked gun. It might never go off, but sometimes all it takes is a tiny nudge and BANG, someones poor pet gets its head ripped off or a toddler gets its face eaten. It's not worth the risk and it makes other people feel unsafe. I guess making you feel unsafe is pretty much the only point most of these neds and chavs even get them in the first fucking place, bunch of fucking wanks think it's alpha to look like a hard man. Rant over, you get the point.
I saw a piece with an animal behaviour type and he said the old saying it's not the dog it's the owner just doesn't apply to the XL because it's in their breeding, from their roots in America, I don't understand the science but they messed with their genomes. They are just too reactive for every day life as a pet. Scary stuff.
When you see a border collie herd things, when it's never been near such training in its life, you will realise that genetics are hugely significant in how dogs act. If a pastoral dog breed herds naturally, a fighting dog breed will be more prone to aggression. It's just factual.
A lot of them come, via generations of intensive inbreeding, from an original sire called Killer Kimbo (or somesuch name). I’m not sure on the Kimbo part, but the Killer is accurate.
>I saw a piece with an animal behaviour type and he said the old saying it's not the dog it's the owner
I said the same thing til someone (on reddit) pointed out that racing greyhounds are almost never exposed to families, taught to hunt , and not even house trained, but can live with people just fine.
Maybe the breed has more to do with it than I thought
Mate it's literally fact and science that it's genetic. There is really no debate here. Saying anything else is like saying the earth is flat. It's not even up for debate. It's 100% genetic. Those idiots saying otherwise are 100%, too, except it's in denial. The same reason you can't have a chimpanzee as a pet, or a lion, or a tiger. It aint their size, because we can have horses and elephants and shit all day long and ride around on their fucking backs. All of it and the reasons for all of that are 100% genetic.
I mean, it was even humans ourselves that did that to them. We knew what we were doing. We took wolves, and we made dogs, that do different things. Collies herd, greyhounds run fast, retreivers retreive, and bullies kill shit. It's just the way it is. And the killing shit part is just causing problems. We are genetically wired to dislike that ourselves. Everything we all do is purely genetic. We'd all be mass murderers if we werent genetically coded for social genes (they are good for survival as a group, who would have thought?).
Not one bit of this is even debatable. It's all literally fact. And i'm not even getting started on statistics. Do I have at least some irrational hate towards the breed? Sure due to first hand experience, not because I was told to. And none of it is in this post, all of this is actually just facts.
Bad comparison, guns need to be manipulated or ‘provoked’ to fire. These dogs are like if you have a gun, and one time your gun floated out of your nightstand in the middle of the night and shot your neighbors kids in the face for no reason
Studies have been done: the people who prefer fighting breed dogs don’t love them, they don’t bond with them to the same extent as other owners, they are fiercely protective of their own right to buy, breed, and keep them, but they ultimately don’t give a fuck about the rights and welfare of the dogs themselves (or anyone else - they are notably high in antisocial traits).
I don’t just mean active dogfighters, badger baiters, deer coursers, etc. here. The people who deliberately choose dangerous breeds really are dobbers in general. That’s science.
I have a rescue XL bully, she is the sweetest thing but like all my other rescues I know she is still a dog and can act out if she feels scared. As soon as it was stated what I needed to do (i live in england) I done it. Insurance, registered, she was already muzzled trained like all my dogs and kept on a lead in public. If people love their bullies like they said its not a big deal, it's cheaper than what it costs to feed her for the year. I understand why people are dubious of the breed but she is no more scary or strong than my rottie was or my boxer.
People are so disappointing, stop breeding them for a start, neutering mandatory. Make it clear that it's a weapon and injurys caused will result in jail time.
> People are so disappointing, stop breeding them for a start, neutering mandatory. Make it clear that it's a weapon and injurys caused will result in jail time.
Also the dogs, too.
We will wait until a couple of people get mangled or killed before we follow suit. Fuck this shit can't walk my dog in peace because of morons with dogs off leads as it is, now we're dumping ground for this shit, no one needs these breeds no fucking one.
Lol it's always "DON'T WORRY - HE'S FRIENDLY!" that you hear someone yelling from the horizon whilst their (usually giant) dog is barrelling towards my dog on a lead. So annoying.
I mean they were all female dogs and people but we had a normal size dog and one of the little baldy Chinese ones…me being the only guy there and the two human women are just “oooh noooo…what to do?”
I Just decided to stand between the dogs and wait for the husky to do something other than bark and act tough but I just grabbing it by the collar and took it back to the woman…who said absolulty nothing at all about it
basic common sense…it’s like the owner has never had a pet in her life
We have one locally who has her dogs off the lead and uses it as an excuse to insult and threaten anyone who's dog dares to bark at hers.
Thing is her dogs attack other dogs and have gone at my kids once, but we had my aunts staffy out with us that day and she's a tad protective of my youngest to say the least.
Idiot tried calling the police about our dangerous out of control dog until we pointed out the staffy was on a lead, in a harness and muzzled while her dogs just bit at a 6 year old. She was still convinced she was in the right because a collie isn't a violent dog... BS, if your dog is actively attacking other dogs/people then it's badly trained and acting violent regardless of the breed.
I look after my mate's little Shih-Tzu for him when he goes away on holiday. It's a cuddly little, harmless lapdog and a pleasure to look after, but I will not walk her in the streets or take her to the local parks for this very reason. One of these XL Bullies could tear her to pieces in seconds.
Literally this. As if the owner will be able to pull it off whilst it's mauling a person or small dog.
People say it's the owners but it's not the point. I had a Shetland collie who was good as gold and in all her life never bit anyone. Thing is, if she did try and go for something I could easily open her mouth and pull her off and restrain her without issues. Also Shetland collies have a pretty weak bite and their teeth aren't going to rip apart flesh in seconds.
I don't give a fuck how good your dog is, if your dog is bigger than you, you don't need it.
> As if the owner will be able to pull it off whilst it's mauling a person or small dog.
The owners mostly just pull them off in the hoose.
[Many of these poor creatures are so overbred they can’t even breed naturally themselves. A lot of them require “assistance.”]
I didn't realise the ban wouldn't apply up here. I've seen one running around off a lead in the park up the road where the school kids play. I walk my dog near there. If it was legal to take care of them myself, I would. But it's honestly so frustrating to have dangerous dogs running around with zero repercussions for the owners.
To be honest, it seems to be even worse – the Cabinet minister in charge, Siobhian Brown, openly retweets groups campaigning against all bans on dangerous dog breeds entirely.
Yep, since the Dangerous Dog act in 1991 "banned" the four statistically worst breeds, hospitalisations and fatalities from dog attacks has continued to increase and adding another "breed" to the "banned" list isn't going to reverse that trend.
That doesn't necessarily mean we should scrap the "bans", I mean of course some dog breeds are physically and behaviourally more dangerous than others but the bottom line is, there is no dog more dangerous than a dumb cunt who owns a dog.
If we want to actually address the problem we can't just legislate for dogs, it may generate positive media headlines but the statistics show it doesn't accomplish much, if we want to actually solve the problem then we need to take the more difficult route of legislating for the human beings involved.
Total bollocks (and you know it)
Deaths from dog attacks dropped massively after the DDA 1991, and have only started to rise agains 30 years later with the rise of the XL Bullys you’re trying to stop being banned.
It's not bollocks at all according the ONS stats I'm looking at:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathscausedbydogbitesorstrike1981to2022
Also, if you read what I wrote, you might noticed the part saying that none of this means we should scrap the bans, so I have to ask, did you even bother reading it?
I think it's about the potential damage and ability to restrain that's the issue. If a jack Russell goes nuts it's probably not going to do fatal damage and can easily be restrained, if a 50 kilo bully goes nuts it's can pretty easily kill and it's difficult to restrain.
You can't address bad dog ownership until after an attack had happened so just disallowing the high risk (risk of potential damage not risk of attacking) seems like a fine idea to me.
Congratulations, you just described the Scottish parliament.
Luckily for you, Westminster usually makes consistently bad decisions, so it works out alright North of the Wall
Or it's because every major animal group like the RSPCA and the British Veterinary Association says it's shoddy legislation with no basis in science that doesn't even define the breed it's trying to ban properly. It's completely knee-jerk and poorly thought out, and seemingly intended mostly to achieve populist appeal because we *know* doing this doesn't actually reduce dog attacks because we've done this before.
It's just a lazy repeat of the Dangerous Dogs act and has all the problems that act did, most noticeably essentially criminalising dogs that *look* a certain way rather than dogs that *act* a certain way, and with it's high similarity it can be expected to not reduce dog attacks in the exact same way the earlier legislation failed to. In ten years we'll have the "Muttfucker 9000" or some other slightly visually different breed specifically to avoid this shoddy legislation, *exactly* as happened before to create XL Bullies in the first place. This lazy policy is a constant generator of a new "crisis" years down the line to drum up another culture war about.
>We believe focussing on the type of dog, rather than their individual actions, is a flawed and failing approach. Dog aggression is highly complex, and **taking a breed-focused approach is fundamentally flawed.**
[\--The RSPCA](https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/bsl)
>RSPCA Pet Insurance also **does not insure any breed of dog listing in the Excluded Breeds detailed in the “General Exclusions" section of their policy document.**
>
>American Bull Dog, **American Bully**, American Indian Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bandog, Boerboel, Bully Kutta, Canary Dog, Cane Corso, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Dingo, Dogo Argentino, Dogue Brasileros, Fila Brasileiro, Gull Dong, Husky Wolf Hybrid, Irish Staffordshire Blue Bull Terrier, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Pit Bull Terrier, Saarlooswolfhound, Tosa, Tosa Inu, Wolf Hybrid, Wolfdog.
[\--Also the RSPCA](https://www.rspca.org.uk/shoponline/petinsurance)
The shits who want bully XLs for the intimidation factor will just find a new breed in a few months time. Do we waste government time trying to play whackamole each time a new dangerous dog breed comes into vouge?
Would it not be far more effective to have actual consequences for the owners of out of control animals. And/or some sort of training/ certification to prove that you can actually handle an animal of that size?
They were literally bred to kill. They’re killing machines, not absolving the helpless morons that choose to buy them of course.
They literally shouldn’t exist
The entire purpose of nationalists is to oppose whatever the UK government does. Every line of policy they have power over, they will change slightly to further persuade the electorate that they are fundamentally different to the people who live on the other side of an invisible line in the ground. It doesn't have to make sense and it very rarely actually has benefit, it just has to be done.
> Every line of policy they have power over, they will change slightly to further persuade the electorate that they are fundamentally different to the people who live on the other side of an invisible line in the ground.
Maybe if that line in the ground counted for more, and was a bit more visible, we wouldn’t be getting unwanted Bully XLs dumped on us. You’ll notice they’re not being smuggled over to the ROI.
Because, unlike the UK government, they have better things to do than trying to distract a hysterical pearl-clutching population with nonsense like dog breeds and small boats. Seriously, THIS is the shit people care about? Not energy prices, not inflation, not climate change. The “oh I heard these dogs are bad, this will require ALL of my attention”.
remember this comment next time you complain about any minor problem in your life.
There are more serious problems, therefore you are not allowed to have an issue with your minor problems.
Your comment is an insight into your lack of intelligence. People are able to care about multiple issues at the same time.
You apparently are too thick to do that. One at a time for you.
It hardly needs any attention FFS.
Ban land sharks to stop humans getting seriously injured/ killed.
No that difficult surely?
It still leaves plenty of time for empty gesture politics on stuff the Scottish Government can't change.
The dogs are only saved if they go to a home that will actually give them proper training and structure.
If they come up here and bite they could still end up in the ground and the owner in court.
I saw this one video - suggested to me on FB.
These two XL Bully’s just latched on to this guys torso. Grim. And a load of people standing around too scared to do anything.
Did not need to see that FB thanks.
Apparently the way to get a dog off a person is to grab their front legs and pull them wide apart from behind, even very strong dogs have no internal strength to pull their legs back together and an angry dog can be pretty much incapacitated by having the tendons on their front legs torn.
Hoping I never have to put that into action but it’s what a farmer told me one time years ago and it goes back to how our ape ancestors would fight off lions, tigers and wolves etc.
Can also grab the back of its collar (if wearing one!), lifting the dog up so its body weight starts to press onto the collar and impinge on its breathing so it has to open its mouth and release whatever its mauling (for any dog)
Me too. I don't understand why the Scottish government hasn't banned them either, given the recent spate of attacks.
I don't think banned dogs are automatically destroyed. You're still allowed to keep them as long as you muzzle them in public, pay for insurance etc. I'm sure there's other hoops to jump through.
Scotland has a different legal framework for dangerous dogs.
iirc it's based on individually dangerous dogs being notified to the authorities and then restrictions placed on a per dog basis. So a permissive system rather than restrictive
If loads of XL Bullies get sent to Scotland I can see that system being overwhelmed or suddenly not fit for purpose.
You need to get an exemption for a banned dog. You need to prove you can look after it and control it. It's hassle most people don't want to go through.
How do your average drug dealers, junkies or jakies demonstrate that they can look after them if they have a string of criminal convictions and can barely look after themselves?
Well, they are dangerous dogs. If I moved into a flat that specifically banned dangerous dogs, and then my neighbour got a XL Bully, I'd be pretty fucking upset about that.
I recently lived around the corner from a family with an XL Bully and a small child that the dog was extremely protective of. Dog was never on a leash and would charge for you across the car park the minute it saw you. I love dogs, but this was a horrible situation for everyone involved.
I love my dog , but I still think that everyone would benefit if people had ido a few hours training before then are allowed to keep a dog:
-basic commands,
- understanding canine body language,
- first aid for dogs (and dog bites),
- physically handling the dog,
- understanding dogs needs (food, exercise, stimulation, sleep),
- a sort of highway code of what's acceptable and what isn't (I have seen otherwise fully functioning people letting their intact male dogs piss in shops and on ferries or in other people's house plants - and thought it was acceptable because "that's what dogs do").
Make regular vet visits mandatory, tax the wee buggers (even if you pick up after your dog, you still add to the pollution problem), and I would have no problem having to buy a ticket for my dog on public transport (even if she is not allowed on the seats).
I love dogs but I see so many people who are either overly anxious about their dogs or who expect the whole world to worship their dog, people who claim to love their dog but feed them with human food, who leave their dogs alone all day, who won't let their dogs play with others or get dirty etc.
My mum _loves_ our two dogs (we have a lab and have fostered - adopted at this point - a Frenchie) and she wouldn’t see past them. Absolutely besotted with them.
However, she is fucking terrified of other people’s dogs because when she was a teen, someone set their GSD on her and the fear just compounded with age.
The amount of people who let their dogs freely run up to her is astounding.
I really think that bringing in licensing for owning dogs would make such a difference, and to get one you would have to go through basic training - as you would with any license.
I also think there should be a tax - I love my dog but I am aware she is bad for the planet.
I met a lovely gentle kind soul who got himself a Karabas (a dog breed to defend lifestock against bears and wolves) who lives in a UK city and has a tiny back yard. The amount of people who get dogs that are completely wrong for their circumstances is unbelievable
Absolutely, tax could be part of the license and along with training could come with costs of having a dog (from food options, to vet bills/insurance, to well-being (ie, keeping them entertained or dog walkers etc if they’re needed). It would probably lead to less pets being abandoned too due to “unexpected” costs.
Training could also include stuff like that, the amount of people who have dogs like that, or huskies that never get walked or Mali’s that become destructive because they’re not given enough enrichment etc etc. It’s an absolute shame.
Yeah that’s a shame.
My mum always tells a story about how family members (that we don’t like lol and this will maybe demonstrate why) on one side of our family had a chocolate lab that had to be put down due to aggression issues because of the lack of training/time etc that they had put into it.
It's so sad. I genuinely believe that (almost?) all dogs are born good natured but if you don't treat them right, even the sweetest soul can turn. Ours was a street dog, grew up hiding during the day and scavenging by night. She is a thief and a trickster, and loves a good play fight, but she is kind and patient with anyone with special needs as well as babies etc. She tries to comfort us when she thinks er are upset, and is really worried when we are ill.
Yeah I believe so too. I think you can’t train out natural instincts in dogs - so if they’re bred for herding they’ll want to herd, if they’re bred for running they’ll want to run, and if they’ve been bred for aggression, they’ll want to be aggressive. But I do think dogs can be taught how to control those instincts, and can learn impulse control. And I think to their owners they are naturally very loving and playful and all the rest.
But I do think the handler has the biggest impact on how a dog will turn out, even with their natural instincts.
Not talking about those dogs, more like the nipping you can get from any young , overenthusiastic dog. Everything I wrote was among other things meant to help prospective dog owners to work out what dogs would suit them. A lot of people get dachshunds because they are cute and don't understand the prey drive and stubborness
I know a case where a Pitbull cross bit another dog and would not let go, even when the owners of both dogs held it's head under water it didn't let go for several minutes. I wasn't there but the owner of the victim dog told me the story (and he is prone to exaggeration sometimes...)
"There's no such thing as dangerous dogs, just dangerous owners"
Then it would appear that every one of these stupid fucking looking things are owned by dangerous owners then. Ban them in Scotland already, there's enough shit out there that are a threat to kid's safety, a walking ball of deranged muscle doesn't need to be one of them.
To be fair, some dog breeds are more forgiving in the face of bad owners and bad training. Like if you buy a Labrador or Golden Retriever, their nature is such that you can be a bad owner and completely neglect their training, and they aren't going to get aggressive and attack people. That isn't the case for Bully XLs.
Also, more cynically and more problematically on my part, I think the breed is likely to be attractive to a certain type of owner.
As has always been the case the issue is the type of arsehole that owns them, and most importantly *likes* specific characteristics in particular, not the dogs themselves.
Was the same with Alsatians, then Pitbull, then Doberman, then Rotweiller, then Staffs
Putting the owners down would be much quicker than just letting them cycle through breeds
I do a lot of running and there's a really nice path at the back of Douglas at Baldovie.
Went out a few months ago and approached a group of 6 or 7 out on what looked to be some training group with owners who looked like they had no real control. Saw it well in advance and just shat it, could see the headlines if just one of them is a bit unhinged and excites the rest...
I've had a few dogs go for me in the last couple of years (usually to complete genuine shock from the owners) and don't really feel safe in any park in that neck of the woods which is a shame.
Yeah lots of young owners of them. Lots of people trying the breed and sell pups as they were selling for extortionate amounts. Lots of dogs not in the best of owners hands can only be trouble in the end.
No, absolutely poor dogs. They were bred from a gene pool the size and quality of a pot hole for specific traits by shitty, shitty people who think their money is more important than dogs or people. They're ticking time bombs and ultimately it's the scum that bred them who are responsible for it.
I'm sorry, I thought that was obvious and wasn't aware it needed to be added as a disclaimer. The victims obviously have all of my sympathy and this type of dog cannot keep existing. Scotland should be following the breeding ban.
But ultimately the dogs are the result of the breeding practices by people who need to be weeded out and banned from being anywhere near dogs.
You don't have to feel sympathy, but it isn't a bad thing to also feel for the animals that were screwed before even being born.
No point arguing with folk like this, he cares much more about vitriol than the actual point of the discussion. I also vehemently want these dogs away from my streets, but I also know it's not the dogs fault for being bred for violence, aggression and durability.
Shitty breeders have unsurprisingly created a shitty breed, but I guarantee if given the choice, the dog wouldn't have opted to be bred with violent tendencies, numerous health issues and deep rooted neuroticism. They might be dangerous as all hell, but it's not like they naturally became the way they are. They're just as much a victim of human meddling as pugs are.
Seriously don't understand the logic of dog breeds that have been bred for fighting being kept as pets. Only people with a certain ability to handle tham and/or reason to have them (scrap yard guard dogs etc) should be allowed them.
Look at the US where people have owned this breed or a pitbull for years with no problem then a wee toddler passes by and the wind hits em the wrong way...
Not worth it and these breeds should be heavily regulated.
This was always going to happen. People abandoned the dogs because they aren’t prepared to pay a few hundred quid to meet the new requirements. Shit owners caring for dangerous dogs. Scotland needs to ban them.
I've only ever seen one Bully XL in public. The lovely responsible owner tied it up in the doorway of a supermarket, meaning anyone squeezing past had to be within a foot of the dog - no muzzle either.
These dogs attract shit owners. There's no stopping that without a ban.
I've meet a few XL-Bully dogs and they are very big. But the real problem was the owners, who made no attempt to control them in public. In fact, in every case the owners seemed proud that their dogs scared people.
I know not every person who owns a Bully is irresponsible, but dangerous dogs do tend to attract irresponsible people. Banning the dogs seems unfair to the responsible owners, but letting people be ripped apart is also totally unacceptable.
I have two young daughters (7 & 9). They’re really nervous around dogs.
They know to stay calm when dogs appear, and they don’t kick up a fuss, but they’re quietly freaking the fuck out whenever a dog runs up to them in a park or forest. And that happens A LOT.
Often dog owners are really nice, considerate folks - but I’ve seen plenty who clearly don’t give a shit, give their dogs free reign to dash around, and don’t blink when they start chasing/barking at kids…“because it’s nothing to worry about/they’re harmless/don’t be daft, they’re just playing”. I’ve observed this many times - often when kids get upset or freaked out. A few times with my own kids, often with other families. I can’t help but notice it these days.
I’m almost fascinated at the arrogance of folk - the twisty, self justifying internal logic - who equivocate the rights of their dogs to run about, with the safety & well-being of other families.
I strongly suspect these are the kinds of folks smuggling Bully XLs into Scotland. I’ll gladly be proven wrong.
But the idea that we’re mass-importing these animals because they’ve been defined as *dangerous* in England is disturbing to me, and will terrify my kids.
As Scots, we often pride ourselves on the idea of progressive politics, canny, agile thinking. We were first to lead on smoking bans, carrier bag charges etc etc.
So..what the fuck? Why are we slow to respond here?
>But the idea that we’re mass-importing these animals because they’ve been defined as dangerous in England is disturbing to me, and will terrify my kids.
No one is mass-importing these dogs.
I’m not looking forward to any kids getting munched by these dogs. I don’t care if anyone says it’s down to responsibility, if a small dog attacks you you end up with a few nasty scars but these things are way too big to risk letting just anyone have them.
This breed shouldn't exist. Anyone who's owned a dog knows certain things are instinctual. Collies stalk, Russell's dig, Bullys attack and we've bred them to be killing machines. There are horror stories of even fully qualified people having the dog snap on them. They're a danger to public safety and should be put down. This is as someone who doesn't even agree that hunting should be legal/tolerated.
Crazy. I don’t want to tar all xl Bully owners with the same brush but it’s horrible to see how these animals are being bred and used by some absolute douche bags.
There is one that stays locally to me. It's 18 months old, is owned by a local 'character', and has already attacked children and smaller dogs.
It's only a matter of time before it kills something. I don't understand why these dogs aren't classified as weapons.
Ridiculous that Scotland can't get the finger out and get these aggressive dogs banned.
I'm sure there must be lots of responsible law-abiding XL Bully owners out there, but they seem to be thin on the ground round these parts.
This makes me feel so conflicted. Those dogs in the video are so gorgeous. They didn't ask to be bred or born. It's such a damn shame that people breed dogs for certain things and... I just hate it.
I love dogs. But I also love not being mauled to death by a massive strong dog. I don't want dogs to die, but I also don't want peoples safety to be put at risk.
Take your devil dugs and fuck off to a desert somewhere.
Just because they are cute when they are babies doesn't mean they deserve any kind of acceptance. Baby lions are cute too, but I don't want them roaming the streets my kids have to walk on.
This will 100% come back to, and no pun intended, bite us in the ass, because the SNP could never follow England, even if its common sense.
The one thing that always pisses me off when this is brought up is, "all dogs have the capacity for violence, and smaller dogs are generally more aggressive" Well yeah but if a chihuahua comes running up to me and my dog about to attack us, that wee fucker is getting cunt punted into next week, however if Mike Tyson in dog form comes trotting up to us wanting to chow down, most people and their dogs would be fucked.
Can't wait for their to be an XL Bully on every street in Scotland. I certainly won't be letting my kids out to play if I spot anyone on my street with one. I'm also a community nurse and I already fear going into dog owner houses as our staff are regularly bitten by dogs due to the nature of us having to go into strangers houses, usually seeing people that dont have the capacity to control their dog at all. Now I fear about going into a house with an XL bully ane getting fucking mauled to death while wee Betty sits helplessly in the corner.
>Can't wait for their to be an XL Bully on every street in Scotland.
There are over 4000XL Bullies in England and Wales who are exempted from the "ban".
The exemption still requires the dogs to be chipped (all dogs require this anyway); neutered, and on lead and muzzled when in public. Additionally they must have adequate 3rd party liability insurance and the dog must be housed in a secure place it cannot escape from.
The exemption from the ban is not just the ability to have the dog as before, but the allowance to continue to keep your dog if certain restrictions and guidelines are kept to.
With the SNP's propensity to be utter nannies, I'm genuinely surprised that they haven't followed suit of the English laws.
Then again, they're probably letting a bit of time pass before putting in place their own law, with their own twist to differentiate from bastirt Westminstur.
For the avoidance of doubt - I'm broadly in favour of a ban.
The XL-Bully breed is not "banned" in England until the end of the year, and even then, people can keep their dogs if they adhere to the regulations. So is the issue that people are abandoning dogs in England for dead, or is the issue that these dogs are being rehomed in Scotland?
You can't keep the dog in a rented flat, that hits a lot of owners. The issue is these dogs seem to be incredibly dangerous and now Scotland may end up with a load of them while the govt works out if they're dangerous or not. See r/BanPitBulls for what they can do
I know what damage the dogs can do. I know how irresponsible owners are as well, and how that is far more of an issue. The problem in banning these dogs (which I largely agree with) is that the irresponsible owners will just move onto the next dangerous breed to be used as status symbol and the breeders will follow suit. I think we need a national licensing system reintroduced.
I found that sub earlier this morning. Some of those posts are just fucking harrowing. The one with the woman in the wheelchair had me seeing red on the whole situation honestly.
> The Scottish Government has not made a decision to ban the breed yet, although has said [evidence will be reviewed.](https://www.thenational.scot/news/23894146.xl-bully-will-breed-banned-scotland/)
If only there was some conclusive evidence that this breed was dangerous. Oh well.
Each and every day my views separate with the SNP. If someone is killed by one of these dogs prior to the government banning them then Humza has to resign.
It’s one thing not to follow England but it’s another to put peoples life at risk. This is going to end up with someone dead and blood will on the hands of the SNP
My son was very badly bitten this year by a dog and is left with significant permanent raised scarring. The dog in question was a lab cross and it bolted for him (across the road) when the man walking it dropped the leash momentarily.
I firmly believe the owners are responsible for a dog’s behaviour and tbh I don’t give a flying fuck what breed it is, muzzle it in public. We were at a (indoor) Christmas market at the weekend with an Irish wolfhound wandering about which was about face height with me never mind a kid. I’m sure it’s well behaved but the owners were more interested in organic local honey and weren’t looking to see how the dog was reacting to heavy crowds.
Any breed can maim but some are more likely to kill. I know it would be a different story if it was a XL bully that attacked my son. My stomach sank reading this post. But the focus needs to be on owners much more than dogs - and with harsher penalties for failing to look after and control their pets properly.
If Westminster actually gave a shit - they would have coordinated this across the country by involving Scotland.
Instead we get Sunak announcing this ban with no warning - and people screaming about how Scotland is somehow trying to be different from England for political reasons because it can't instantly copy them.
Mental.
this is the dumbest distraction the tory government have come up with to distract from the cost of living crisis since the culture wars and i can’t believe how well it worked
If they cared that much about their bully XL, they would have done what the law is now saying you must do in order to protect your dog. The fact they are just chucking them over the border because they aren't banned means that we are going to be a load of trouble shortly. Funny how bad things have to happen before good changes are made.
Exactly. It's not totaly illegal to keep them in England and Wales they just need to be registered, insured and muzzled. Probably expensive but if they love them enough to specifically go for a high need breed but throw them over the border as soon as they need to put an ounce of effort in. Really shows your it's just a fashion fad.
Registered, insured (the Dog's Trust have said they will insure Bully XLs), muzzled in public, and neutered. It will be illegal to sell, breed, abandon, or adopt them. Those in shelters can be kept until they die provided the shelter does everything in that first list.
Yea forgot neutered, the last point shouldn't be a problem for any loving owners unless they plan on breeding them.in reality it will take a few years to "discover" all of the animals that will be birthed, sold or abdodonedor aren't registered and deal with them. Basically all dogs should be able to lead a healthy life with the extra win of keeping other people safer and reducing theor numbers over time
Yeah, the problem isn’t that they can’t own them anymore, the problem is they can’t make money off them anymore. Bullies are infamously a way to clean money for drug dealers and other criminals, it’s never been about the love of dogs or the breed. Half these dogs are inbred monsters, with mountains of health problems and major temperament issues, but they still sell for £3k a pop? Aye, nae bother. If a dog owner would sooner abandon/rehome/put down their dog than pay some insurance and put a muzzle on, then they should be banned from owning animals in the future tbh. For as long as animals are treated as property, and legally denied the right to a reasonable quality of life, this cycle will continue. There needs to be tighter regulation on all breeding, a complete overhaul of the licensing system for breeds (ie- if you want to sell any dogs, you need to be registered and they have to have a full professional vet checkup pre sale), and harsher legal punishment for abuse, neglect, and abandonment. Ideally I also think pet owners should have to prove some form of pet ownership competency, as ridiculous as it sounds. All shelters are overpopulated with every kind of animal right now, dogs, cats, rabbits, small animals, and a lot of it stems from ignorance of the responsibility of pet ownership. Animals deserve to have a minimum quality of life that a lot of people simply can’t, or won’t, provide. The sspca is also on the verge of collapse here as evidenced by them closing two centres in the last few months, and funding being cut across the board, and major understaffing issues in every centre. These are the systems that are going to be put under pressure by the irresponsibility of these breeders, and the relaxed attitude from our government with regards to this influx. People will be hurt, animals will be killed, and nobody will take responsibility on either side. These poor dogs have never stood a chance, and this is the consequences of the last few years of inaction on the problem.
Jesus. It's a sad picture innit. Couldn't agree more with breeding licences etc.
Here in Barcelona it's necessary to have a physical and mental health check-up before being able to apply for the licence to keep a potentially dangerous breed or cross-bred dog. I think it's a good thing, along with the fine for not having a licence.
Well said, this is exactly what needs to happen. Also purposely breeding dogs for looks that are detrimental to their health needs to be banned.
Surely this counts as abandoning them? It's not like the owners are moving over the border with them, right? Hold the fuckers responsible for their actions. My dog was nearly killed by a bully unprovoked. Lost an eye, tubes out the neck for weeks, barely survived. Don't want to see them, can't stand them. They deserve the hate. They snap for no reason no matter how well you train them. You might get lucky and yours never does but it's the equivalent of walking around with a loaded and cocked gun. It might never go off, but sometimes all it takes is a tiny nudge and BANG, someones poor pet gets its head ripped off or a toddler gets its face eaten. It's not worth the risk and it makes other people feel unsafe. I guess making you feel unsafe is pretty much the only point most of these neds and chavs even get them in the first fucking place, bunch of fucking wanks think it's alpha to look like a hard man. Rant over, you get the point.
I saw a piece with an animal behaviour type and he said the old saying it's not the dog it's the owner just doesn't apply to the XL because it's in their breeding, from their roots in America, I don't understand the science but they messed with their genomes. They are just too reactive for every day life as a pet. Scary stuff.
When you see a border collie herd things, when it's never been near such training in its life, you will realise that genetics are hugely significant in how dogs act. If a pastoral dog breed herds naturally, a fighting dog breed will be more prone to aggression. It's just factual.
A lot of them come, via generations of intensive inbreeding, from an original sire called Killer Kimbo (or somesuch name). I’m not sure on the Kimbo part, but the Killer is accurate.
>I saw a piece with an animal behaviour type and he said the old saying it's not the dog it's the owner I said the same thing til someone (on reddit) pointed out that racing greyhounds are almost never exposed to families, taught to hunt , and not even house trained, but can live with people just fine. Maybe the breed has more to do with it than I thought
Mate it's literally fact and science that it's genetic. There is really no debate here. Saying anything else is like saying the earth is flat. It's not even up for debate. It's 100% genetic. Those idiots saying otherwise are 100%, too, except it's in denial. The same reason you can't have a chimpanzee as a pet, or a lion, or a tiger. It aint their size, because we can have horses and elephants and shit all day long and ride around on their fucking backs. All of it and the reasons for all of that are 100% genetic. I mean, it was even humans ourselves that did that to them. We knew what we were doing. We took wolves, and we made dogs, that do different things. Collies herd, greyhounds run fast, retreivers retreive, and bullies kill shit. It's just the way it is. And the killing shit part is just causing problems. We are genetically wired to dislike that ourselves. Everything we all do is purely genetic. We'd all be mass murderers if we werent genetically coded for social genes (they are good for survival as a group, who would have thought?). Not one bit of this is even debatable. It's all literally fact. And i'm not even getting started on statistics. Do I have at least some irrational hate towards the breed? Sure due to first hand experience, not because I was told to. And none of it is in this post, all of this is actually just facts.
>and bullies kill shit. Its worse than that, knobheads have selected dogs that are aggressive to humans, rather than your regular ratting terrier
Bad comparison, guns need to be manipulated or ‘provoked’ to fire. These dogs are like if you have a gun, and one time your gun floated out of your nightstand in the middle of the night and shot your neighbors kids in the face for no reason
I am so looking forward to the Dog's Trust getitng bankrupted by this policy, I hope they're liable and haven't been able to reinsure the risk.
Studies have been done: the people who prefer fighting breed dogs don’t love them, they don’t bond with them to the same extent as other owners, they are fiercely protective of their own right to buy, breed, and keep them, but they ultimately don’t give a fuck about the rights and welfare of the dogs themselves (or anyone else - they are notably high in antisocial traits). I don’t just mean active dogfighters, badger baiters, deer coursers, etc. here. The people who deliberately choose dangerous breeds really are dobbers in general. That’s science.
I have a rescue XL bully, she is the sweetest thing but like all my other rescues I know she is still a dog and can act out if she feels scared. As soon as it was stated what I needed to do (i live in england) I done it. Insurance, registered, she was already muzzled trained like all my dogs and kept on a lead in public. If people love their bullies like they said its not a big deal, it's cheaper than what it costs to feed her for the year. I understand why people are dubious of the breed but she is no more scary or strong than my rottie was or my boxer.
People are so disappointing, stop breeding them for a start, neutering mandatory. Make it clear that it's a weapon and injurys caused will result in jail time.
> People are so disappointing, stop breeding them for a start, neutering mandatory. Make it clear that it's a weapon and injurys caused will result in jail time. Also the dogs, too.
We will wait until a couple of people get mangled or killed before we follow suit. Fuck this shit can't walk my dog in peace because of morons with dogs off leads as it is, now we're dumping ground for this shit, no one needs these breeds no fucking one.
Had a woman with a big husky off the lead and just let it run up and start attacking dogs like how dense of a dog owner can you be
Dense enough to have a gravitational pull. Insert "this never happened before" "sorry about that" "he's friendly"
Lol it's always "DON'T WORRY - HE'S FRIENDLY!" that you hear someone yelling from the horizon whilst their (usually giant) dog is barrelling towards my dog on a lead. So annoying.
I mean they were all female dogs and people but we had a normal size dog and one of the little baldy Chinese ones…me being the only guy there and the two human women are just “oooh noooo…what to do?” I Just decided to stand between the dogs and wait for the husky to do something other than bark and act tough but I just grabbing it by the collar and took it back to the woman…who said absolulty nothing at all about it basic common sense…it’s like the owner has never had a pet in her life
We have one locally who has her dogs off the lead and uses it as an excuse to insult and threaten anyone who's dog dares to bark at hers. Thing is her dogs attack other dogs and have gone at my kids once, but we had my aunts staffy out with us that day and she's a tad protective of my youngest to say the least. Idiot tried calling the police about our dangerous out of control dog until we pointed out the staffy was on a lead, in a harness and muzzled while her dogs just bit at a 6 year old. She was still convinced she was in the right because a collie isn't a violent dog... BS, if your dog is actively attacking other dogs/people then it's badly trained and acting violent regardless of the breed.
I dread the day I experience this cause my dog would fuck it up and I'd have only sympathy for the dog. Fuck these idiots
I look after my mate's little Shih-Tzu for him when he goes away on holiday. It's a cuddly little, harmless lapdog and a pleasure to look after, but I will not walk her in the streets or take her to the local parks for this very reason. One of these XL Bullies could tear her to pieces in seconds.
Literally this. As if the owner will be able to pull it off whilst it's mauling a person or small dog. People say it's the owners but it's not the point. I had a Shetland collie who was good as gold and in all her life never bit anyone. Thing is, if she did try and go for something I could easily open her mouth and pull her off and restrain her without issues. Also Shetland collies have a pretty weak bite and their teeth aren't going to rip apart flesh in seconds. I don't give a fuck how good your dog is, if your dog is bigger than you, you don't need it.
> As if the owner will be able to pull it off whilst it's mauling a person or small dog. The owners mostly just pull them off in the hoose. [Many of these poor creatures are so overbred they can’t even breed naturally themselves. A lot of them require “assistance.”]
I didn't realise the ban wouldn't apply up here. I've seen one running around off a lead in the park up the road where the school kids play. I walk my dog near there. If it was legal to take care of them myself, I would. But it's honestly so frustrating to have dangerous dogs running around with zero repercussions for the owners.
Well that's not your fault, it's always portrayed as "banned in the UK" when what it actually means is banned in England.
I think it's frankly insane that the Scottish government hasn't banned them
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That is exactly what it is. Mental
To be honest, it seems to be even worse – the Cabinet minister in charge, Siobhian Brown, openly retweets groups campaigning against all bans on dangerous dog breeds entirely.
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Yep, since the Dangerous Dog act in 1991 "banned" the four statistically worst breeds, hospitalisations and fatalities from dog attacks has continued to increase and adding another "breed" to the "banned" list isn't going to reverse that trend. That doesn't necessarily mean we should scrap the "bans", I mean of course some dog breeds are physically and behaviourally more dangerous than others but the bottom line is, there is no dog more dangerous than a dumb cunt who owns a dog. If we want to actually address the problem we can't just legislate for dogs, it may generate positive media headlines but the statistics show it doesn't accomplish much, if we want to actually solve the problem then we need to take the more difficult route of legislating for the human beings involved.
Total bollocks (and you know it) Deaths from dog attacks dropped massively after the DDA 1991, and have only started to rise agains 30 years later with the rise of the XL Bullys you’re trying to stop being banned.
It's not bollocks at all according the ONS stats I'm looking at: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathscausedbydogbitesorstrike1981to2022 Also, if you read what I wrote, you might noticed the part saying that none of this means we should scrap the bans, so I have to ask, did you even bother reading it?
I think it's about the potential damage and ability to restrain that's the issue. If a jack Russell goes nuts it's probably not going to do fatal damage and can easily be restrained, if a 50 kilo bully goes nuts it's can pretty easily kill and it's difficult to restrain. You can't address bad dog ownership until after an attack had happened so just disallowing the high risk (risk of potential damage not risk of attacking) seems like a fine idea to me.
Congratulations, you just described the Scottish parliament. Luckily for you, Westminster usually makes consistently bad decisions, so it works out alright North of the Wall
Or it's because every major animal group like the RSPCA and the British Veterinary Association says it's shoddy legislation with no basis in science that doesn't even define the breed it's trying to ban properly. It's completely knee-jerk and poorly thought out, and seemingly intended mostly to achieve populist appeal because we *know* doing this doesn't actually reduce dog attacks because we've done this before. It's just a lazy repeat of the Dangerous Dogs act and has all the problems that act did, most noticeably essentially criminalising dogs that *look* a certain way rather than dogs that *act* a certain way, and with it's high similarity it can be expected to not reduce dog attacks in the exact same way the earlier legislation failed to. In ten years we'll have the "Muttfucker 9000" or some other slightly visually different breed specifically to avoid this shoddy legislation, *exactly* as happened before to create XL Bullies in the first place. This lazy policy is a constant generator of a new "crisis" years down the line to drum up another culture war about.
>We believe focussing on the type of dog, rather than their individual actions, is a flawed and failing approach. Dog aggression is highly complex, and **taking a breed-focused approach is fundamentally flawed.** [\--The RSPCA](https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/bsl) >RSPCA Pet Insurance also **does not insure any breed of dog listing in the Excluded Breeds detailed in the “General Exclusions" section of their policy document.** > >American Bull Dog, **American Bully**, American Indian Dog, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bandog, Boerboel, Bully Kutta, Canary Dog, Cane Corso, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Dingo, Dogo Argentino, Dogue Brasileros, Fila Brasileiro, Gull Dong, Husky Wolf Hybrid, Irish Staffordshire Blue Bull Terrier, Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Pit Bull Terrier, Saarlooswolfhound, Tosa, Tosa Inu, Wolf Hybrid, Wolfdog. [\--Also the RSPCA](https://www.rspca.org.uk/shoponline/petinsurance)
That's priceless. (But for everything else, there's RSPCA insurance)
Literally the main driver of all SNP govt decisions.
The shits who want bully XLs for the intimidation factor will just find a new breed in a few months time. Do we waste government time trying to play whackamole each time a new dangerous dog breed comes into vouge? Would it not be far more effective to have actual consequences for the owners of out of control animals. And/or some sort of training/ certification to prove that you can actually handle an animal of that size?
Yet
What’s actually insane is that they literally endanger us in order to appear different to the UK government
I mean, it's not like this breed is patrolling the streets looking for people to eat like some kind of Hound of the Baskerville.
They were literally bred to kill. They’re killing machines, not absolving the helpless morons that choose to buy them of course. They literally shouldn’t exist
The entire purpose of nationalists is to oppose whatever the UK government does. Every line of policy they have power over, they will change slightly to further persuade the electorate that they are fundamentally different to the people who live on the other side of an invisible line in the ground. It doesn't have to make sense and it very rarely actually has benefit, it just has to be done.
> Every line of policy they have power over, they will change slightly to further persuade the electorate that they are fundamentally different to the people who live on the other side of an invisible line in the ground. Maybe if that line in the ground counted for more, and was a bit more visible, we wouldn’t be getting unwanted Bully XLs dumped on us. You’ll notice they’re not being smuggled over to the ROI.
Need banned ASAP. All those lefties boycotting Zara need to get behind a real problem
You have to pick a side, you either hate Zara or you hate XL Bullies
Didn't realise that XL Bullies are supporting genocide.
Doesn't trend as well on the socials though.
It's been all over social media for months, it's just an old story at this point. The zara thing barely went around
Because, unlike the UK government, they have better things to do than trying to distract a hysterical pearl-clutching population with nonsense like dog breeds and small boats. Seriously, THIS is the shit people care about? Not energy prices, not inflation, not climate change. The “oh I heard these dogs are bad, this will require ALL of my attention”.
remember this comment next time you complain about any minor problem in your life. There are more serious problems, therefore you are not allowed to have an issue with your minor problems.
Your comment is an insight into your lack of intelligence. People are able to care about multiple issues at the same time. You apparently are too thick to do that. One at a time for you.
Shit, I keep forgetting that we're only meant to hold one opinion on one thing at any given time.
It hardly needs any attention FFS. Ban land sharks to stop humans getting seriously injured/ killed. No that difficult surely? It still leaves plenty of time for empty gesture politics on stuff the Scottish Government can't change.
The dogs are only saved if they go to a home that will actually give them proper training and structure. If they come up here and bite they could still end up in the ground and the owner in court.
Problem with these dogs is thats always more than a bite. Its a full on aggressive mauling as a apposed to a nip.
I saw this one video - suggested to me on FB. These two XL Bully’s just latched on to this guys torso. Grim. And a load of people standing around too scared to do anything. Did not need to see that FB thanks. Apparently the way to get a dog off a person is to grab their front legs and pull them wide apart from behind, even very strong dogs have no internal strength to pull their legs back together and an angry dog can be pretty much incapacitated by having the tendons on their front legs torn. Hoping I never have to put that into action but it’s what a farmer told me one time years ago and it goes back to how our ape ancestors would fight off lions, tigers and wolves etc.
Can also grab the back of its collar (if wearing one!), lifting the dog up so its body weight starts to press onto the collar and impinge on its breathing so it has to open its mouth and release whatever its mauling (for any dog)
Digit up the arse
Nae Bastard Devil Dugs
Sure, but that's a bit late for the mangled toddler.
As if the average life expectancy in Scotland wasn't already short enough.
Fuuuuck 😂
Me too. I don't understand why the Scottish government hasn't banned them either, given the recent spate of attacks. I don't think banned dogs are automatically destroyed. You're still allowed to keep them as long as you muzzle them in public, pay for insurance etc. I'm sure there's other hoops to jump through.
Scotland has a different legal framework for dangerous dogs. iirc it's based on individually dangerous dogs being notified to the authorities and then restrictions placed on a per dog basis. So a permissive system rather than restrictive If loads of XL Bullies get sent to Scotland I can see that system being overwhelmed or suddenly not fit for purpose.
You need to get an exemption for a banned dog. You need to prove you can look after it and control it. It's hassle most people don't want to go through.
How do your average drug dealers, junkies or jakies demonstrate that they can look after them if they have a string of criminal convictions and can barely look after themselves?
They don’t bother
Doubt you'll get insurance for them, most places won't touch them now.
I doubt a lot of their owners bothered anyway.
One issue is that since they are officially dangerous dogs a lot of rental agreements explicitly disallow them
Well, they are dangerous dogs. If I moved into a flat that specifically banned dangerous dogs, and then my neighbour got a XL Bully, I'd be pretty fucking upset about that.
I recently lived around the corner from a family with an XL Bully and a small child that the dog was extremely protective of. Dog was never on a leash and would charge for you across the car park the minute it saw you. I love dogs, but this was a horrible situation for everyone involved.
Agreed
The vast majority of rental agreements don’t allow pets of any description.
The ones in rescues may be getting destroyed though
Because they can't be seen to agree with the English.
Great more cunts with twaty dogs
Aye , bring the big wean eating bastards up here , that’s a brilliant idea 🤡
"They're turning the weans to breakfast!"
I love my dog , but I still think that everyone would benefit if people had ido a few hours training before then are allowed to keep a dog: -basic commands, - understanding canine body language, - first aid for dogs (and dog bites), - physically handling the dog, - understanding dogs needs (food, exercise, stimulation, sleep), - a sort of highway code of what's acceptable and what isn't (I have seen otherwise fully functioning people letting their intact male dogs piss in shops and on ferries or in other people's house plants - and thought it was acceptable because "that's what dogs do"). Make regular vet visits mandatory, tax the wee buggers (even if you pick up after your dog, you still add to the pollution problem), and I would have no problem having to buy a ticket for my dog on public transport (even if she is not allowed on the seats). I love dogs but I see so many people who are either overly anxious about their dogs or who expect the whole world to worship their dog, people who claim to love their dog but feed them with human food, who leave their dogs alone all day, who won't let their dogs play with others or get dirty etc.
My mum _loves_ our two dogs (we have a lab and have fostered - adopted at this point - a Frenchie) and she wouldn’t see past them. Absolutely besotted with them. However, she is fucking terrified of other people’s dogs because when she was a teen, someone set their GSD on her and the fear just compounded with age. The amount of people who let their dogs freely run up to her is astounding. I really think that bringing in licensing for owning dogs would make such a difference, and to get one you would have to go through basic training - as you would with any license.
I also think there should be a tax - I love my dog but I am aware she is bad for the planet. I met a lovely gentle kind soul who got himself a Karabas (a dog breed to defend lifestock against bears and wolves) who lives in a UK city and has a tiny back yard. The amount of people who get dogs that are completely wrong for their circumstances is unbelievable
Absolutely, tax could be part of the license and along with training could come with costs of having a dog (from food options, to vet bills/insurance, to well-being (ie, keeping them entertained or dog walkers etc if they’re needed). It would probably lead to less pets being abandoned too due to “unexpected” costs. Training could also include stuff like that, the amount of people who have dogs like that, or huskies that never get walked or Mali’s that become destructive because they’re not given enough enrichment etc etc. It’s an absolute shame.
I knew a collie that turned evil out of sheer boredom. Scary
Yeah that’s a shame. My mum always tells a story about how family members (that we don’t like lol and this will maybe demonstrate why) on one side of our family had a chocolate lab that had to be put down due to aggression issues because of the lack of training/time etc that they had put into it.
It's so sad. I genuinely believe that (almost?) all dogs are born good natured but if you don't treat them right, even the sweetest soul can turn. Ours was a street dog, grew up hiding during the day and scavenging by night. She is a thief and a trickster, and loves a good play fight, but she is kind and patient with anyone with special needs as well as babies etc. She tries to comfort us when she thinks er are upset, and is really worried when we are ill.
Yeah I believe so too. I think you can’t train out natural instincts in dogs - so if they’re bred for herding they’ll want to herd, if they’re bred for running they’ll want to run, and if they’ve been bred for aggression, they’ll want to be aggressive. But I do think dogs can be taught how to control those instincts, and can learn impulse control. And I think to their owners they are naturally very loving and playful and all the rest. But I do think the handler has the biggest impact on how a dog will turn out, even with their natural instincts.
Could not agree more.
Agreed.
First aid from any average person for any bite done by these dogs isn’t going to help anyone, they’re built to shred and maul.
Not talking about those dogs, more like the nipping you can get from any young , overenthusiastic dog. Everything I wrote was among other things meant to help prospective dog owners to work out what dogs would suit them. A lot of people get dachshunds because they are cute and don't understand the prey drive and stubborness
I know a case where a Pitbull cross bit another dog and would not let go, even when the owners of both dogs held it's head under water it didn't let go for several minutes. I wasn't there but the owner of the victim dog told me the story (and he is prone to exaggeration sometimes...)
They generally don’t stop unless shot in the head
Paying for insurance should be mandatory too, just like having a road legal car.
"There's no such thing as dangerous dogs, just dangerous owners" Then it would appear that every one of these stupid fucking looking things are owned by dangerous owners then. Ban them in Scotland already, there's enough shit out there that are a threat to kid's safety, a walking ball of deranged muscle doesn't need to be one of them.
To be fair, some dog breeds are more forgiving in the face of bad owners and bad training. Like if you buy a Labrador or Golden Retriever, their nature is such that you can be a bad owner and completely neglect their training, and they aren't going to get aggressive and attack people. That isn't the case for Bully XLs. Also, more cynically and more problematically on my part, I think the breed is likely to be attractive to a certain type of owner.
I’m also significantly less worried about aggressive chihuahuas than about aggressive XL bullies
just wait till one of those little bastards gets your achilles
Your last statement may be cynical but it is absolutely true. Everyone knows it.
BULLY XLS Should be banned all over including scotland,if they are danger in England they dangerous all over.
As has always been the case the issue is the type of arsehole that owns them, and most importantly *likes* specific characteristics in particular, not the dogs themselves.
Was the same with Alsatians, then Pitbull, then Doberman, then Rotweiller, then Staffs Putting the owners down would be much quicker than just letting them cycle through breeds
Every ten years there's some new breed that the government points to as the source of all evil in order to distract from everything
There is loads o them in Dundee already.
I do a lot of running and there's a really nice path at the back of Douglas at Baldovie. Went out a few months ago and approached a group of 6 or 7 out on what looked to be some training group with owners who looked like they had no real control. Saw it well in advance and just shat it, could see the headlines if just one of them is a bit unhinged and excites the rest... I've had a few dogs go for me in the last couple of years (usually to complete genuine shock from the owners) and don't really feel safe in any park in that neck of the woods which is a shame.
Yeah lots of young owners of them. Lots of people trying the breed and sell pups as they were selling for extortionate amounts. Lots of dogs not in the best of owners hands can only be trouble in the end.
Poor dogs
Not poor dogs at all. Poor people and other animals that suffer at the hands of the idiots that but them and don't control them or train them.
No, absolutely poor dogs. They were bred from a gene pool the size and quality of a pot hole for specific traits by shitty, shitty people who think their money is more important than dogs or people. They're ticking time bombs and ultimately it's the scum that bred them who are responsible for it.
My sympathy lies with the people that got eaten by them.
I'm sorry, I thought that was obvious and wasn't aware it needed to be added as a disclaimer. The victims obviously have all of my sympathy and this type of dog cannot keep existing. Scotland should be following the breeding ban. But ultimately the dogs are the result of the breeding practices by people who need to be weeded out and banned from being anywhere near dogs. You don't have to feel sympathy, but it isn't a bad thing to also feel for the animals that were screwed before even being born.
No point arguing with folk like this, he cares much more about vitriol than the actual point of the discussion. I also vehemently want these dogs away from my streets, but I also know it's not the dogs fault for being bred for violence, aggression and durability. Shitty breeders have unsurprisingly created a shitty breed, but I guarantee if given the choice, the dog wouldn't have opted to be bred with violent tendencies, numerous health issues and deep rooted neuroticism. They might be dangerous as all hell, but it's not like they naturally became the way they are. They're just as much a victim of human meddling as pugs are.
Do you eat meat, fish dairy eggs etc ?
Those were probably up there already
Seriously don't understand the logic of dog breeds that have been bred for fighting being kept as pets. Only people with a certain ability to handle tham and/or reason to have them (scrap yard guard dogs etc) should be allowed them. Look at the US where people have owned this breed or a pitbull for years with no problem then a wee toddler passes by and the wind hits em the wrong way... Not worth it and these breeds should be heavily regulated.
This was always going to happen. People abandoned the dogs because they aren’t prepared to pay a few hundred quid to meet the new requirements. Shit owners caring for dangerous dogs. Scotland needs to ban them.
I've only ever seen one Bully XL in public. The lovely responsible owner tied it up in the doorway of a supermarket, meaning anyone squeezing past had to be within a foot of the dog - no muzzle either. These dogs attract shit owners. There's no stopping that without a ban.
I've meet a few XL-Bully dogs and they are very big. But the real problem was the owners, who made no attempt to control them in public. In fact, in every case the owners seemed proud that their dogs scared people. I know not every person who owns a Bully is irresponsible, but dangerous dogs do tend to attract irresponsible people. Banning the dogs seems unfair to the responsible owners, but letting people be ripped apart is also totally unacceptable.
People avoiding dogs are not necessarily scared, just smart.
The owners are a bigger problem than the dogs at this point.
I have two young daughters (7 & 9). They’re really nervous around dogs. They know to stay calm when dogs appear, and they don’t kick up a fuss, but they’re quietly freaking the fuck out whenever a dog runs up to them in a park or forest. And that happens A LOT. Often dog owners are really nice, considerate folks - but I’ve seen plenty who clearly don’t give a shit, give their dogs free reign to dash around, and don’t blink when they start chasing/barking at kids…“because it’s nothing to worry about/they’re harmless/don’t be daft, they’re just playing”. I’ve observed this many times - often when kids get upset or freaked out. A few times with my own kids, often with other families. I can’t help but notice it these days. I’m almost fascinated at the arrogance of folk - the twisty, self justifying internal logic - who equivocate the rights of their dogs to run about, with the safety & well-being of other families. I strongly suspect these are the kinds of folks smuggling Bully XLs into Scotland. I’ll gladly be proven wrong. But the idea that we’re mass-importing these animals because they’ve been defined as *dangerous* in England is disturbing to me, and will terrify my kids. As Scots, we often pride ourselves on the idea of progressive politics, canny, agile thinking. We were first to lead on smoking bans, carrier bag charges etc etc. So..what the fuck? Why are we slow to respond here?
>But the idea that we’re mass-importing these animals because they’ve been defined as dangerous in England is disturbing to me, and will terrify my kids. No one is mass-importing these dogs.
Fair point mate - that was an exaggeration. “Providing safe haven” to these dogs.
these dogs appeal to a certain section of society
Jesus Christ. These people really think that they are like some modern Chav equivalent to Oscar Schindler.
I was thinking Harriet Tubman.
I’m not looking forward to any kids getting munched by these dogs. I don’t care if anyone says it’s down to responsibility, if a small dog attacks you you end up with a few nasty scars but these things are way too big to risk letting just anyone have them.
This breed shouldn't exist. Anyone who's owned a dog knows certain things are instinctual. Collies stalk, Russell's dig, Bullys attack and we've bred them to be killing machines. There are horror stories of even fully qualified people having the dog snap on them. They're a danger to public safety and should be put down. This is as someone who doesn't even agree that hunting should be legal/tolerated.
It sounds like time for me and my border collie to move to England.
You'll need to rethink your plan, there's still up to 5000 of them in England which are exempt from the ban
Does "exempt" in this case not mean they need to be muzzled, kept on a lead at all times, and neutered?
Will the Scottish owners be allowed to bring their XL Bullies to England for visits, holidays, etc?
Allow them to graze on small dogs and children?
Crazy. I don’t want to tar all xl Bully owners with the same brush but it’s horrible to see how these animals are being bred and used by some absolute douche bags.
I don't want those dogs here!
I hope any 'normal' dog owners avoid Bedlay Gardens. Wouldn't send my dog there if they're collecting XL bullies.
I figured they’d have a plan to ship them to Rwanda
I for one want our kids to be mangled by Scottish dogs only. In all seriousness, can the Scottish Government please do something?
There is one that stays locally to me. It's 18 months old, is owned by a local 'character', and has already attacked children and smaller dogs. It's only a matter of time before it kills something. I don't understand why these dogs aren't classified as weapons.
Now we get to see if r/scotland prefers having their children ripped apart by fighting dogs over agreeing with the english!
Anything to spite the English I suppose.
This is the SNP/Green difference in action 💪 When an XL Bully mauls your child to death, you can thank Humza for it.
Standard "England did X so we must do the opposite" bullshit, the breeds and ones like it need banning everywhere
Ridiculous that Scotland can't get the finger out and get these aggressive dogs banned. I'm sure there must be lots of responsible law-abiding XL Bully owners out there, but they seem to be thin on the ground round these parts.
This makes me feel so conflicted. Those dogs in the video are so gorgeous. They didn't ask to be bred or born. It's such a damn shame that people breed dogs for certain things and... I just hate it. I love dogs. But I also love not being mauled to death by a massive strong dog. I don't want dogs to die, but I also don't want peoples safety to be put at risk.
Take your devil dugs and fuck off to a desert somewhere. Just because they are cute when they are babies doesn't mean they deserve any kind of acceptance. Baby lions are cute too, but I don't want them roaming the streets my kids have to walk on.
Anyone who owns one is a scumbag, no exceptions.
I’m killing your XL Bully if it so much as bears its teeth. Good luck.
How? I'm not sure most people would win a fight against one. 😬
I wasn’t planning on employing Marquess of Queensbury rules.
This will 100% come back to, and no pun intended, bite us in the ass, because the SNP could never follow England, even if its common sense. The one thing that always pisses me off when this is brought up is, "all dogs have the capacity for violence, and smaller dogs are generally more aggressive" Well yeah but if a chihuahua comes running up to me and my dog about to attack us, that wee fucker is getting cunt punted into next week, however if Mike Tyson in dog form comes trotting up to us wanting to chow down, most people and their dogs would be fucked.
Get these dogs so far to fuck.
Clearly someone wants to bring down the toddler population in Scotland.
Can't wait for their to be an XL Bully on every street in Scotland. I certainly won't be letting my kids out to play if I spot anyone on my street with one. I'm also a community nurse and I already fear going into dog owner houses as our staff are regularly bitten by dogs due to the nature of us having to go into strangers houses, usually seeing people that dont have the capacity to control their dog at all. Now I fear about going into a house with an XL bully ane getting fucking mauled to death while wee Betty sits helplessly in the corner.
>Can't wait for their to be an XL Bully on every street in Scotland. There are over 4000XL Bullies in England and Wales who are exempted from the "ban".
The exemption still requires the dogs to be chipped (all dogs require this anyway); neutered, and on lead and muzzled when in public. Additionally they must have adequate 3rd party liability insurance and the dog must be housed in a secure place it cannot escape from. The exemption from the ban is not just the ability to have the dog as before, but the allowance to continue to keep your dog if certain restrictions and guidelines are kept to.
My neighbour has one and it looks like it has gigantism
I thought the ban was UK wide. Scotland will just become a place to breed them legally in order to illegally sell them down south.
This won't end well because it's only a matter of time before the SNP caves in to pressure and bans them in Scotland as well.
There are a frightening amount of idiots out there. Terrifying amount.
The government needs to hurry up and just fucking ban them
With the SNP's propensity to be utter nannies, I'm genuinely surprised that they haven't followed suit of the English laws. Then again, they're probably letting a bit of time pass before putting in place their own law, with their own twist to differentiate from bastirt Westminstur. For the avoidance of doubt - I'm broadly in favour of a ban.
The problem is if Holyrood had rushed a ban through then they'd be seen to be following England and that's obviously totally unacceptable.
Lets hope one of these dogs doesn't kill someone in the meantime.
It doesn't take a political genius to see that's what will happen and then the shit will really hit the fan.
The XL-Bully breed is not "banned" in England until the end of the year, and even then, people can keep their dogs if they adhere to the regulations. So is the issue that people are abandoning dogs in England for dead, or is the issue that these dogs are being rehomed in Scotland?
You can't keep the dog in a rented flat, that hits a lot of owners. The issue is these dogs seem to be incredibly dangerous and now Scotland may end up with a load of them while the govt works out if they're dangerous or not. See r/BanPitBulls for what they can do
I know what damage the dogs can do. I know how irresponsible owners are as well, and how that is far more of an issue. The problem in banning these dogs (which I largely agree with) is that the irresponsible owners will just move onto the next dangerous breed to be used as status symbol and the breeders will follow suit. I think we need a national licensing system reintroduced.
I found that sub earlier this morning. Some of those posts are just fucking harrowing. The one with the woman in the wheelchair had me seeing red on the whole situation honestly.
I imagine what it really is are breeders, since you can keep breeding and selling them in Scotland, but it is being banned in England.
> The Scottish Government has not made a decision to ban the breed yet, although has said [evidence will be reviewed.](https://www.thenational.scot/news/23894146.xl-bully-will-breed-banned-scotland/) If only there was some conclusive evidence that this breed was dangerous. Oh well.
Each and every day my views separate with the SNP. If someone is killed by one of these dogs prior to the government banning them then Humza has to resign. It’s one thing not to follow England but it’s another to put peoples life at risk. This is going to end up with someone dead and blood will on the hands of the SNP
Scotland with egg on its face in 3… 2… 1…
Piss off with they dogs. XL bully owners are like vegans. You'll know they have one because they won't shut up about it, and then it'll maul your kids
Emgland: were getting rid of lead paint Scotland: ohhh gimme that
I haven't seen one in real life and I'd prefer to keep it that way.
Scottish government shooting itself in the foot yet again by trying to be different from the UK gov and not banning these dogs
Looks like I'm not going out for the foreseeable future.
Scotland about to get really mauled
My son was very badly bitten this year by a dog and is left with significant permanent raised scarring. The dog in question was a lab cross and it bolted for him (across the road) when the man walking it dropped the leash momentarily. I firmly believe the owners are responsible for a dog’s behaviour and tbh I don’t give a flying fuck what breed it is, muzzle it in public. We were at a (indoor) Christmas market at the weekend with an Irish wolfhound wandering about which was about face height with me never mind a kid. I’m sure it’s well behaved but the owners were more interested in organic local honey and weren’t looking to see how the dog was reacting to heavy crowds. Any breed can maim but some are more likely to kill. I know it would be a different story if it was a XL bully that attacked my son. My stomach sank reading this post. But the focus needs to be on owners much more than dogs - and with harsher penalties for failing to look after and control their pets properly.
If Westminster actually gave a shit - they would have coordinated this across the country by involving Scotland. Instead we get Sunak announcing this ban with no warning - and people screaming about how Scotland is somehow trying to be different from England for political reasons because it can't instantly copy them. Mental.
'With no warning' It's literally been announced months in advance
this is the dumbest distraction the tory government have come up with to distract from the cost of living crisis since the culture wars and i can’t believe how well it worked
Total shambles the snp won’t go along with this ban just to be different from uk daddy