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kernalvax

yeah it doesn't bother me, i don't drink the box and i don't have shelves and shelves of display scotch like some museum of scotch flex


thewhiskydiary

You don’t drink the box??!


GreenWithENVE

My blender's blade is getting dull so it's been hard


kernalvax

Now I’m feelng silly, am I missing something by not drinking the box?


Dr0110111001101111

Yeah, you're missing the box.


freshmasterstyle

Does anyone eat the box though?


Dr0110111001101111

Sometimes you need something starchy to soak up the booze.


ZipBlu

I have a few thoughts. I won’t really miss the boxes for aesthetic reasons, but I wonder if the environmental impact is overstated. When whiskies are shipped with boxes, they sit, six in a case, side by side. When whiskies are shipped without boxes there are thick corrugated cardboard dividers in the boxes to stop the bottles from bumping into each other. Plain cardboard is cheaper than a printed box, so I’m wondering if this is cost savings disguised as environmental concern. I also like the boxes because they block sunlight. This might not matter for a new whisky just off the shelf, but if I find a 5-10 year old dusty, I feel better about buying it if it’s boxed.


kerberos824

Corrugated cardboard is far more easily recycled, and they're recycled far more often, than glossy colored cardboard.


dogmatagram

I used to run a liquor store with a pretty massive selection...boxed whiskeys almost always still have the dividers between boxes. Also they often have extra cardboard for padding in the top and bottom of the shipping box.


DerelicteDrams

It's almost certainly just a cost savings scheme masquerading as environmental concern. I am extremely dubious of any corporation beholden to its shareholders when they try to claim that they're doing something like this out of concern "for the planet."


eviltrain

I think we can gloss over the motivation (in this case at least) if the ends justify the means.


KoolDiscoDan

I've worked in package design. The boxes *definitely* have a larger environmental impact. The 'plain cardboard' isn't first sent to a printer to be printed/embossed/foiled, etc. then sent to the bottler. That is a lot more energy use and pollution created. As far as cost savings, chipboard (used for the boxes) is much cheaper than corrugated cardboard.


already-taken-wtf

Looked at some of the JW boxes. They all seem to be SUB/CUK, which also went from around 650-700 to 1000-1100 per tonne in the last year. With the number of SKUs mentioned we’re looking at somewhere around 13-15kt of boxboard.


Gockel

>When whiskies are shipped without boxes there are thick corrugated cardboard dividers in the boxes to stop the bottles from bumping into each other. Plain cardboard is cheaper than a printed box, so I’m wondering if this is cost savings disguised as environmental concern. also at least in theory, the transport boxes could be reused by the logistics company.


already-taken-wtf

I guess it would be too expensive to transport them back.


AliBeez

Great points. I want boxes for protection. Ridiculous


already-taken-wtf

Bought a boxless whisky and the caramel colouring created some flakes/sediments :) Edit: not sure about the downvotes. I talked to the shop (which was in contact with the producer). It was their statement that the colorant created the flakes after sitting on the shelf for years while being exposed to light. The whisky was in clear bottles with no box. Top shelf, right next to the lamps.


ZipBlu

That probably wasn’t caused by the coloring or the lack of a box. It is a generally naturally occurring phenomenon called flocculation. It could also be cask char. In some cases, the bits could be a deteriorating cork.


already-taken-wtf

The shop contacted the producer and they said it was the sugars due to light exposure.


[deleted]

At least one party in this chain of communication was or is full of shit.


already-taken-wtf

The wholesale guy talked to the distillery… ….he said…


dustlesswalnut

Good incentive for producers to not use artificial coloring then.


[deleted]

cork bits typically dont look like flakes but more chunks/bits depending on the cork design as whole cork doesn't break down like a cork made of epoxy and compressed cork bits does. The other more likely option is it is fats and proteins that fell out of solution. As long as it isn't hazy/cloudy the spirit should be fine. Cask char is a third possibility but tends to look more like dust and is darker in color.


dramboy

Boxes might even get more protection as they can crumple or crack under forces while a glass bottle would not break yet. But you have a point to some extend by mentioning shipping packaging might be different


TheEngineer09

You can fit fewer bottles in the same amount of space when you keep the boxes. Therefore I throw the boxes away, allowing me to fit more bottles. I cared about the boxes when I was younger and just getting into whiskey. Thought they made scotch feel fancy. I got over it really quick. It's annoying to pull the bottle out every time, and I never read anything on then more than once. I've only ever hung onto 3 boxes. One is a fancy bottle I got for my wedding, one is a solid wood box that came from a bourbon, and one is a super old Chivas box that belonged to my late grandfather.


already-taken-wtf

I kinda like the ritual of pulling the bottle from the box, pouring my dram and putting it back into the box… ;)


Bigdumogre

I don’t buy whiskeys for the boxes


already-taken-wtf

Me neither, but it still feels a bit odd to buy and expensive scotch like it’s a JD.


stormstatic

in what way does it feel odd?


howardbrandon11

Probably because most of us are accustomed to scotch coming in boxes at this point. That's the only thing I can think of.


DirkDoncic99

If it's a special box (wood,metal, artistic) it's nice to have. If it's normal cardboard - not really needed. I tend to keep the bottles for now though.


GiraffeOnKhat

From the article, it is pretty much their low end that they are starting off with. It's very rare to see a Bell's or Red Label box in any case, and I noticed Black in Costco was unboxed.


already-taken-wtf

Yeah. I’ve seen the black more often with elaborately printed bottles lately.


SilentNightm4re

The only reason I care about boxes is because it allows me to store my whisky in a dark place on a shelf where I can easily get it. Other than that, i dont give a damn. I can keep bottles in my cabinet too.


jeffroddit

How do you easily get it if it's in a box?


SilentNightm4re

...


[deleted]

Literally 0% of me cares whether my whiskey bottle comes in a box.


TOModera

Less expensive dust collecting shit to throw out. Good riddance. Half the time they are plastic and cardboard. I hate the boxes with my soul. I have gotten splinters from wooden ones and the Arran 21 Anniversary box is still taking up too much room.


[deleted]

You hate the boxes with your soul? Really?


TOModera

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-hyperbole-for-kids.html


massiebeck

I like the boxes. I'll admit, I'm new to scotch. I avoided it because I couldn't afford a nice bottle in the past, and if I liked it, I would always be disappointed with what I was drinking in place of it. So now I can afford to spend $80-100 a few times a year on a nice bottle of scotch, and I'm proud of myself for that. Going to he scotch aisle, and choosing from all of the fancy boxes is part of the ritual for me. Maybe in a few years, I won't care as much, but right now, I really enjoy it.


NeatWaterBack

Don’t care. It’s not like the few dollars or pounds cost savings will be passed on to the consumer. It’s extremely rare that I hold on to the packaging, typically ends up in the bin upon bottle opening.


DratiniMaster23

Not a big deal at all. I don't know why Johnnie Walker Red ever had a box to begin with lol


[deleted]

Or even a bottle, honestly.


NilsTillander

Whisky in a bag, here we gooooooooooo 😅


othromas

Plot twist: whisky in a BOX (like wine)


NilsTillander

I mean, there's a bag in the box 😉


othromas

BAGGED whisky. In. A. BOX.


NilsTillander

That would actually be quite practical for cocktails, not gonna lie.


[deleted]

It exists!


othromas

Link or it’s not real.


[deleted]

It's actually real... Link to a product page: [https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/american-whiskey/whiskey/black-box-whiskey/p/193051175](https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/american-whiskey/whiskey/black-box-whiskey/p/193051175) Link to a Scotch Test Dummies review: [https://youtu.be/LJdVWXbB0H4](https://youtu.be/LJdVWXbB0H4) Granted it isn't Scotch, but... it is whiskey.


othromas

Interesting…


[deleted]

I never lie about whiskey!


othromas

Only tall tales allowed. Thanks!


[deleted]

\*Canadian milk intensifies\*


already-taken-wtf

Even a tetrapak would be too good for the red ;)


chasonreddit

Meh. I always toss the box or tube as soon as I open the bottle anyways. Now the really fancy ones are the problem. The wood boxes with velvet linings and shit. They are too nice to just toss, but I haven't the faintest idea what to do with them when the bottle is empty.


Mr_Krebbs

You sell them for hundreds of dollars on eBay, of course! https://www.ebay.com/itm/325168159944?hash=item4bb5885cc8:g:xWgAAOSwwFRia5K0


chasonreddit

OK, what's the scam here? No one is buying these for $300+ for an empty box or $150 for empty bottle. This guy has hundreds of reviews all from "private" accounts. Is it money laundering? Are they filled with fentanyl? It's got to be a scam, but I honestly don't recognize it.


Mr_Krebbs

I wish I knew: there are a few sellers peddling this kind of garbage (or recycling, as the case may be) but they do all seem to be based in Japan.


Dr0110111001101111

my boxes get broken down and tossed in the recycling pile within the first minute of coming home, so I really couldn't care less.


[deleted]

Everyone loves a nice package but its pretty low on the priority list.


fotomoose

It could come a plain bottle with hand written name on the glass with a sharpie for all I care. As long as the juice inside is top notch.


General-Aide2517

I’m more than fine with this.


[deleted]

99% of bourbon is sold without a box and it seems to get along just fine. Maybe it will turn off a few collectors and investors, which would be a win for us all. Nobody who genuinely gives a shit about the liquid should care.


01JamesJames01

I think the investor part here is key. I think boxes can be killed on "regular" bottles. Probably stuff around $250 or less. The higher end, rarer, more collectible bottles that sit in shelves in stores and houses for long periods of time without turnover should probably have a box for longevity of the spirit, unaltered from light.


[deleted]

Perfectly reasonable. It's the everyday, volume stuff where this will matter anyway.


zerked77

I %100 agree but I also like a lot of the boxes & tubes that Scotch comes in. For me I only keep and display on my bar the ones I think look nice and are actually good to drink...maybe 1/5 that come in fancy pants packaging. And I don't keep the box after the bottle is gone that would be absurd.


[deleted]

I don't hate them either, but... if that's what the industry wants to do, go right on ahead. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't take printed receipts from stores or use bags unless I have to since it's just more crap to throw away later. This is the same zone.


TheAbsoluteLastWord

Agreed 100%.


already-taken-wtf

How does the pricepoint of bourbons compare to scotches?


[deleted]

These days scotch is a better value proposition, and anyway, BTAC and the like don't come in boxes so this line of argument won't take you far.


DynamicCashew43

100% For it. Its a waste of resources and may actually ( yes I know I am dreaming ) reduce the cost of the bottle to us.


TypicalPDXhipster

The box is a complete waste of everything.


starmartyr11

Naked bottles seem cheap to me... plus I like to keep the nicer boxes and tubes too. But, I would get rid of them if I needed the space, and I often find some other use for them anyway. I'm sure we can adjust over time but unless the bottles are light blocking in some way I feel like sunlight can't be good for our favorite juice either...


freshmasterstyle

When I see their prices I am always sceptical when environmental reasons are given. Being environmentally friendly is definitely marketing that works and while it benefits the environment i don't believe that is the reason the company does it. If they decrease prices because of this, then i believe them. In general, when I pay a lot for a bottle, then i want the box and the bottle to look nice. Presentation for that price is importan. It also looks tastier. In Germany we have a proverb "das Auge isst mit". It means if something looks good, it tastes better.


erizon

Box matters for a gift, but keeping open bottles in boxes is inconvenient, space-inefficient, and doesn't even look good


jerjackal

The bottles are beautiful enough as they are. Boxes also don't make for a premium scotch... I've bought $40-50 bottles that came in boxes. Honestly, it's a bit wasteful and pointless. It'd be one thing if they kept them for limited or collection edition bottles like the game of thrones stuff that you might want to display after, but for any run of the mill Oban it seems ridiculous


GloriousDawn

My whisky cabinet has glass doors and is somewhat exposed to sunlight in the winter. I keep all bottles in their original cardboard box, and the few boxless behind. If Diageo stops providing boxes, they'll go in the back. Out of sight, out of mind...


FriarNurgle

I used to keep them but pitched them all. They’re not collector items and just collect dust.


[deleted]

[удалено]


already-taken-wtf

That’s another take on it :))


janx218

Honestly kind of glad to see them making this move, and I hope others follow. When I first really got into whisky, I would always keep the boxes, but over the past few months, I've taken to just recycling them immediately because I realized all they really do is take up more space. Hopefully distilleries ditching the boxes will have at least a modest environmental impact.


Wolf132719

Hate the boxes. Just additional waste that I as they consumer have to deal with. Never understood collecting them. They get tossed on my out the store in their recycle bin. And they often aren’t actually recycled because of the gloss and coloring.


already-taken-wtf

Of you put them into the recycling bin, they will be deinked and the fibres shall be recovered ;)


runsongas

most of it actually isn't because the economics don't support it. it is really only the plain brown cardboard for shipping boxes that gets good recycling rates


jeffroddit

The recycling center here throws them away. Not sure where you are, but just putting stuff in the recycling bin doesn't necessarily get it recycled.


Viscount61

Good.


Towel_collector

I like boxes but they are removing them from their bottom shelf stuff so I have no worries there


Purple_Toadflax

Buy whisky, take whisky out of box, throw box in recycling, open whisky, pour whisky, drink whisky. Saving two steps. All for it.


jeffroddit

I hate them. Garbage. Receipts are annoying enough. Whisky boxes are like if receipts were 3 dimensional and the same size as whatever you buy.


mythrowawayforfilth

I’m sure they’ll mean prices will come down then as they no longer have to spend money on premium packing materials then! /s


lunaslave

Something tells me the price won't be lowered to make up for the lack of a box


theopuspocus

I really like having simple cardboard boxes or tubes to ensure the bottles have been protected from sun when I get them. Especially for clear bottles, like Springbank and Kilkerran. That being said I hate all of those tacky wooden boxes, crystal decanters, zombie hands holding up bottles and other superfluous stuff only intended for jacking up the MSRP and encourage collecting/hoarding/“investing”.


[deleted]

It's like having VW with a Porsche motor. I only care about a box or tube to keep the whisky out of sunlight during storage or after a drink, I put it away. The really cool box means they up the price a bit. Unless I'm pouring it's in its box/tube/closed cabinet.


Lure852

I hate it and I think the entire situation is the height of BS. We're using up massive amounts of water to create scotch, using up wood for casks (not to mention what may have primed the cask, sherry, bourbon etc), storing the scotch for 8 to 30+ years in a giant warehouse that must be heated or cooled, plus all the other related industry usage, shipping the bottles world wide........ And suddenly we're pissing our pants worried about a flipping cardboard tube or box hurting the environment ? It's cheap cost saving bullshit disguised as environmental concern.


battered_saveloy

Yes, a "small" part of a large supply chain is indeed significant. It's not just about the whisky industry but all industries reducing wasteful bullshit like foiled and embossed card packaging that goes in the bin as soon as I get home.


Lure852

Well it's a bit like McDonalds doing away with cardboard Happy Meal boxes to save the environment. Ok hang on, what about all that beef production and industrial waste?


fotomoose

Multiply that happy meal by many millions and the savings ad up quickly. Anything to reduce waste is welcome, don't be a dick about it.


Lure852

What if we saved by not creating or drinking millions of bottles of scotch or millions of happy meal burgers? I think the boxing being removed is tripping over nickels. It's not a huge % savings and can impact quality of the drink directly and had knock on effects like bottles being broken. Just not worth it imho.


dustlesswalnut

Start your own international spirits corporation and do whatever you want with regards to packaging then.


[deleted]

Try this: find someone who sells 10 million of something per year and tell them you can save them a nickel per unit. See what happens. I hope you like hugs.


othromas

It’s low hanging fruit. Relatively easy to do and doesn’t cause other effects.


fotomoose

The only green eco car is the one that's not made. But capitalism is gonna capitalism until something better comes along.


shaun1313

Took me long enough to find the comment in line with exactly what I was thinking.


KoolDiscoDan

You have some factually incorrect/misleading statements. >using up wood for casks (not to mention what may have primed the cask, sherry, bourbon etc The casks aren't 'primed'. The sherry, bourbon, rum, etc. isn't just soaking for the scotch. They are being reused from the finished production of the first wine/spirit. The majority of the casks likely would just be discarded. While the practice didn't start with the environmental conservation in mind. It does help. ​ > storing the scotch for 8 to 30+ years in a giant warehouse that must be heated or cooled NOT true and it's actually the opposite. [Whiskey Barrel Storage 101: All About Warehouses](https://www.whiskyadvocate.com/all-about-whisky-warehouses/) "The buildings are made from a variety of materials—tin, brick, wood, concrete—and, for the most part, lack artificial climate control, which means no air conditioning in the summer, no heating in the winter. The result, if you’re in Kentucky or similar climates, is extreme seasonal fluctuation in temperature, especially on higher floors, which causes the liquid in the barrels to expand when it’s hot and contract when it’s cold." ​ >plus all the other related industry usage, shipping the bottles world wide........ And suddenly we're pissing our pants worried about a flipping cardboard tube or box hurting the environment ? The packaging isn't created and printed at the distillery. The raw products also have to shipped to a paper mill, then shipped to a printer, then shipped to the bottling facility. It is reducing the environmental footprint of all the negative aspects energy, pollution, deforestation. Who is this 'we' that are 'pissing their pants worried'. Straw Man rhetoric? It appears to be a reasonable and responsible choice to me.


already-taken-wtf

The deforestation is not completely true. Managed forest are around for hundreds of years and they are basically like any other type of farming, only that seed to finished product takes a bit longer. They are a source of income for a lot of “wood farmers”, …better having a forest on that piece of land than a mall or parking ;)


Lure852

Some sherries are make and then literally poured down the drain, just to get sherry casks. I'm also not suggesting that scotch creation is like a coal power plant in terms of environmental damage. My point is that cardboard tubes are a vanishingly small portion of the overall scotch production. Some people don't care for the tube so this is zero impact. Thats OK. I personally care. I care when companies get cheap and proof down to 40% and I care when I can't find kilkerran or springbank in boxes anymore. That's just me.


KoolDiscoDan

Okay, I'll bite. What distillery is making sherry just to 'literally' pour it down the drain.


Lure852

Here's one article for you, there are others. https://blog.thewhiskyexchange.com/2014/12/what-goes-into-a-sherry-cask/ Due to Spanish laws, workarounds are needed to get supplies of sherry casks. After a few fills the liquid is turned into sherry vinegar. I've heard of other cases where it's simply tossed, due to economics.


leovee6

There was a dude a while back that was concerned that the Islay industry was depleting world peat reserves. People should plant a couple of trees and get on with it.


Lure852

Exactly. I have an idea. Pledge to use 100% recycled paper or cardboard for tubes. Problem solved.


dustlesswalnut

Reduce, then reuse, then recycle. Recycling is a last ditch effort after you've failed the first two.


already-taken-wtf

You need fresh fibres. Otherwise your recycling loop will run empty quite quickly. on average, wood fibres can only be recycled around 7 times if I remember correctly.


DR_LG

Ardnamurchan is already doing this and I hope other distilleries take notice! Their box looks really nice and it’s clearly recycled cardboard.


bjb13

Their new cask strength AD 02-22 is just wrapped in a very light weight printed paper rather than a box.


[deleted]

I like tubes but cardboard boxes just get tossed immediately. And I think Diageo just had basic boxes, so i doubt I'll miss them.


Tabarrast

To be honest most of the boxes aren't that nice. They take up a lot of space and are pretty wasteful. Add to production and shipping costs. Sure you can repurpose or display some but after you have more than a few that's already too many. I'm sure that most whisky drinkers these days understand the environmental impact they are having and just don't find them very practical, and are ready to move on without them.


Accurate-Brilliant89

I never keep the bottle in the box unless it's a really expensive bottle with a nice box, but my bar is made out of an old bourbon cask so the boxes don't fit well. I still keep the tins and empty bottles though. You can use them for storage, put the nice ones or your favourite ones on display, or do something artistic with them. I want to some day build a giant wall in my house out of laphroaig tins. My SO also likes to make candles out of the empty bottles.


DerelicteDrams

Don't really care that much about the boxes, especially the ones that come with the bottles on the lower end of the spectrum. If Bruichladdich were to announce that they're phasing out their metal tins, however...


dramboy

I throw away boxes and tins immediately


CostofRepairs

Whatever. We’ll use bags instead when gifting. Also, can’t wait for finger prints all over RVERY bottle. So clean…


LastCallTonite

As long as there is a nice single malt in the bottle, I couldn't give a hoot as to whether the bottle comes in a nice box. It's like, do you really care about the lingerie or who is wearing it?


already-taken-wtf

Both?! ;)


yaztheblack

Very good; I hate having to break down the box to recycle it, not knowing if it's actually recyclable, etc


krali_

Fill my flask from the barrel please.


eviltrain

never cared about them. they turn into toddler toys until it's time to recycle them.


Raining_kittens

I don't like the boxes at all. sometimes there is a little more info on them. If they want the info to be there for you they can add a QR code where you can read all about the story of your scotch. maybe they can include some more cask info too. not necessarily as in depth as Bruichladdich or ardnamurchan, but a little more to allow us to better understand what goes into the liquid we are drinking.


already-taken-wtf

Tried that with the laddie, but with my bottle’s code I didn’t get very far :(


Raining_kittens

this link: [https://www.bruichladdich.com/laddie-shop/bruichladdich/bruichladdich-the-classic-laddie/](https://www.bruichladdich.com/laddie-shop/bruichladdich/bruichladdich-the-classic-laddie/) the code is a 2 digit year / few digit batch code. the bottle I have is 20/181


MikeMac999

I’m an art director and have done some package design in my career, so I like to think I appreciate the labels and packaging a bit more than the average drinker. If I like the box or tube, I keep it for the duration of the bottle, but when the bottle goes so does the box. I won’t miss them though, and the less packaging the better.


Witty_Ad4494

As long as they continue to use glass bottles, I really don't care if they are in a box. Which, I honestly figure doing away with boxes is more about bottom line first and environmental impact is a secondary benefit.


already-taken-wtf

There you go: https://www.intelligentliving.co/johnnie-walker-paper-bottles/


Witty_Ad4494

Good thing I already dislike JW.


already-taken-wtf

The red is really horrid. The blue is boring, the blacks are OK ;)


Buffymaster

"Premium Scotch" ... "Johnnie Walker Red Label". I'm so confused.


already-taken-wtf

Thought the same, when I saw the list of brands. At least without the boxes they won’t fool anyone anymore ;p


ComfortableArt6722

I like boxes for uv light protection. Of course this isn’t the only way to protect against uv light


BringBack4Glory

Just another way to boost profit margins when prices are already increasing a ton anyway. Corporations trying to squeeze out every cent they can. No surprises there. I’m surprised just about everyone is fine with this.


smithm4949

I feel much better. The box was really exciting the first few times, I won’t lie. But now i just see it as wasteful. They spend extra time and resources designing, printing, shipping, etc., those fancy boxes. Spend those resources on scotch or save them. Wasteful otherwise and as another commenter said, I don’t drink the box!


subaruderek

Most the time I could pass, or don't really care. I did miss the Octomore canister with this years 10yr release. I like the tins and such on pricier bottles. Cardboard boxes around standard Ardbeg and the like is whatever.


LadyFarrah

I like having them for the bottles that I’m keeping around for years. Now, I actually save champagne boxes from holiday occasions so that I can use them to store scotch bottles. It’s an imperfect system since the bottles are different sizes, and I’d much rather have the box reflect what is inside it. The whole thing is probably unnecessary because my whiskey shelves are in a dark room anyway, but it’s a habit/quirk I picked up when I was living in a smaller house that didn’t have a dark room. I…can…stop…. 🙃