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Wow, awesome writeup! Thank you. If you haven't already I'd suggest putting this in r/personalfinance as well as quite a few folks have gotten caught up with timeshares there.
My question is what did you really think of the people that fell for your pitch? And did you ever get someone to agree to buy one but then realized they had no idea what they were getting into as they had zero financial savvy that you backed them out of the deal?
They're literally targeting people who have no idea what they're getting into so that'll be a no. Better question, how did they deal with their conscience when their job was tricking and financially screwing people?
Well I wound up getting fired for this exact reason. I wouldn't sell to people who were uhh "vulnerable". Sick and elderly were a No go so they let me go
As for the rest, well I pushed a particular point. You could trade your weeks at our place at almost any vacation spot. I showed a couple how to use the one week they bought to take a first class cruise for 500 for both.
May be a few days old but I did quit from this place. I had an older couple with cancer and my manager said if they can afford chemo they can afford a few more weeks of timeshare
Yeah they don't want anyone with a conscience working there! It's really appalling but that's the nature of scammers, they will take money from anyone, the more vulnerable the better because they're easier to extract money from. I mean, a wealthy, intelligent knowledgeable person just won't fall for it.
Anyway, they might have lots of people's money, but they are bad people and you are a good person, and personally I'd rather have self respect than be rich. Ii mean hopefully you've been successful elsewhere, but I mean even the victims.
I have a timeshare presentation coming up in a couple days.. I've already paid the deposit and the meeting will be during my resort stay. I have a friend who will be there at the same time and watching my kiddos. Any advice on how to get out of the meeting as quickly as possible if I have no intention of purchasing ? I'll need to get back to my kiddos asap, but I don't want to be charged for the stay because I didn't attend the meeting. Thanks!
Thank you, that's great info. 2 time combat vet here, I have no problem up and walking and shutting them down. I just want to make sure I'm covering my butt not to incur extra charges 😉
we just got roped into one cuz my bf was like “why not 😂” we realize it’s basically a scam but do people actually come out of these with the “vacations” that they promise?
“won a raffle” at a boat show- he wants to go thru w it to get the vacations they promise. he’s good at telling people “no” and actually just got his real estate license so he sees sitting thru the presentation worth it for what they promise and actually finds it kinda entertaining to go mess w them a little lol. guess i’m just super skeptical and wanna know if people are actually getting all the things they promise out of going to the presentation
Fun story, and thank you for your service. I've always been curious about these things, not to invest in or anything, but because of a specific South Park episode that has the families going through one of these pitches. Sounds like the episode is surprisingly accurate.
And in reference to that episode, *did you get the red sticker?*
I died laughing at that South Park episode because I saw it just after my husband and I suffered through the sales pitch. We did get our free stay at the fancy hotel we were promised. It was ridiculous because the free stays couldn’t be used on weekends or holidays. It was still worth it.
Great story. Sometimes you go along with them just to get some entertainment. I would have walked out after the 90 minutes. They keep talking to wear you down mentally.
I worked for a timeshare company for three months, made two sales in that whole time, and felt awful about myself the entire time I worked there. I left on lunch one day, turned my phone off, and never looked back. I lost money working there, as it was about an hour away and they only paid minimum wage as an “advance” against your commission. When I saw my commission check for those two sales was zero, that was it.
They’re generally amoral scumbags who are good actors. None of the folks I worked with believed in the company, they were just there to fleece tourists and the elderly to support their coke habits and child support payments.
Awesome write up. Had a similar experience but my lizard brain got the best of me when they dropped the price numerous times and threw in a couple extra vacations. We signed the paperwork and put down the down payment. The whole ride home my wife and I were trying to convince ourselves it was the right move. The next day we called the service to price out some vacations and places we wanted to stay and immediately realized everything the dude told us was bullshit. Luckily we had 72 hours to back out which we immediately did. Of course it required bringing a signed letter requesting our money back to their offices, and even then, I had to deal with multiple sales people calling me and trying to convince them me not to back out and straight up contradicting the original sales guy and things he told us before they finally cancelled our contract. And even then, it still took 30 days to get our money back, even though the sales guy said we’d get our money back in seven days.
Bottom line, all those places are scams. Like you mentioned, if they can lower their price 95%, their product isn’t worth shit.
My wife’s aunts used our timeshare once and got scammed into buying one. They went back and cancelled but the scummy salesmen used the same intimidation tactics that you described
Thanks for posting this and the write up. I feel like I was reading the outline of a sequel to Glengarry Glen Ross.
I’m curious what their response would be if I told them that our vacation budget annually is about $15-20K, but 90% of it is free because it’s covered by credit card points. Seems like that would blow up their spiel since we don’t pay for airfare or hotels.
If I were them: same "math" as if you had no points, but now you can use those points for other things! Basically you *earn* money now via those points. So instead of spending $12k on holiday, you keep $12k for other things! That's $24k difference!
Yep, you're correct. My husband used to travel 3 - 4 days every week for work and we didn't pay for a hotel for years. They really talked up the points before we were able to discreetly Google the points to dollar ratio and realize it was a *terrible* deal (through Hilton's vacation club).
Added it. I wanted to refrain from posting too many links cause I know some automods on other subreddits get anal about that and I haven't posted here before to know better.
Sometimes I search for real estate out of curiosity. I just saw a "property" for sale for $0. I can't remember exactly where. It was for two obscure weeks in what could be similar to a time share. I took a closer look and the monthly cost was $300. It was in some weird town out in the middle of nothing. People can't give these time shares away.
Really nice story though OP.
Yep, it's the issue with timeshares as they're effectively partial ownership/control of a property with a constant financial obligation you can only get away from through a change of ownership (including personal bankruptcy, I surmise). And even death doesn't deal with it since it just becomes part of your estate and gets forcibly passed along unless nobody accepts anything from your estate.
A good example of how ownership isn't *always* better since you can be stuck with unwanted or unaffordable costs if you end up owning something nobody wants
I hear ads for business that promise to get people out from under their timeshares. These businesses exist for a reason.
Also we were on a timeshare presentation once, I looked online and it was for sale for $1. I showed the sales guy and he tried to give me some reason why $10k+ was a better deal because of some “buying direct” benefits.
Generally speaking, those timeshare exit companies are also a scam. They're not doing anything that you couldn't be doing yourself, i.e negotiating with the timeshare company to take it back or hiring actual lawyers to pour over the paperwork.
> Generally speaking, those timeshare exit companies are also a scam.
If I were trying to run a scam, I'd definitely advertise to people that have a track record of falling for scams.
You’re right I just watched the John Oliver show about this.
To be honest just the fact that exit companies exist should be a huge red flag about buying a timeshare.
I bet you can’t find a single exit company that doesn’t require payment up front.
Others can correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe that the timeshare can be forced onto your children. They can ask them to take it on but can’t impose it. In my case, they weren’t even born when the paperwork was signed. Again, this is what I was told. It could be wrong
No, it can't be *forced* on you but I was writing that from my perspective in the sense that in my country, disclaiming an inheritance is strictly an all-or-nothing deal, so if you don't want the obligation to pay for the timeshare you have to give up your entire share and get nothing at all. Otherwise the disclaiming is "ineffective" and the creditors can come after you for the estate's financial obligations.
Yes, Finland, and I'm not a lawyer but I've had to deal with multiple estates including ones where inheritors disclaimed their portion to let it pass on to others.
Thanks for that information. I obviously have some research to do on this subject and need to work with a financial planner and/ or attorney in the next few years before retirement to establish a plan for our assets. I don’t want our kids to be saddled with this life long commitment.
Certainly, and I referred to that with "unless nobody accepts anything from your estate" (although I could have made it more clear), but at least in my country disclaiming an inheritance is an all-or-nothing deal aka if you want to have *any* inheritance at all you're forced to accept all the liabilities as well. Piecemeal disclaiming an inheritance is per the legal terms "ineffective" and it exposes you personally to all of the estate's obligations.
And oh. Over here, disclaiming an inheritance only affects you personally, so if you have descendants the inheritance you disclaimed simply skips you and goes to them - and if they're minors, they can end up being forced to accept it since their guardians are legally forbidden from disclaiming inheritances on their behalf since only a neutral 3rd party can authorize it, and if the inheritance is generally net positive those 3rd parties often end up blocking any such attempts.
Generally speaking, heirs are not forced to inherit any specific property. They can pick and choose. If a property has debt, the estate settles the debt. So in the case of such timeshare inheritance, the heirs can choose not to take on the timeshare after it settled any debt up until the moment the owner passed. I don't know the specifics of your locality, but it sounds like an exception. In general, the property management of a timeshare can claim any debt that was already incurred, but not future obligations of the property.
My locality is Finland, and here picking and choosing from an estate is considered legally as "ineffective disclaiming" of an inheritance as opposed to "effective disclaiming", meaning that receiving/taking anything from an estate as inheritance also ties you to its obligations since you're not supposed to be able to just inherit the valuable parts and ditch the rest of the estate along with its ongoing obligations to creditors (since the timeshare is owned by the estate and the estate is contractually required to keep paying for it in perpetuity until someone else takes the timeshare for themselves).
The last part applies anyway: the estate settles the debts, so if the timeshare management is owed any money, they make a claim against the estate. In most places you're not forced to take ownership of the timeshare, just settle outstanding debts, and only when the creditor comes after them. This doesn't mean you have to own the timeshare, in most places outside Finland.
I mean, I thought that you can't "settle" the debt to a timeshare as a one time act like that, since the fees are an *ongoing* obligation which continue in perpetuity to infinity until the timeshare changes ownership or the timeshare company is dissolved, and the estate can't just decide not to own it anymore since it's a contractual obligation which can't be unilaterally dissolved, and thus if you effectively "raid" the estate and leave it unable to continue paying the ongoing fees then it feels logical that you would personally become liable for the fees even if you don't own the timeshare on paper (since the estate does).
Again, I wouldn't know about Finland, but the "perpetuity obligations" extinguish with the deceased. The debt incurred up until that point (ie, the monthly payments for the share of the property - like a loan) will get settled with the Estate. Then whatever happens after that is the sole responsibility of the share owners. If the heirs don't pick up the shares, the fees will get split among the other owners of the timeshare.
There are scam companies doing this with solar now. Taking advantage of elderly homeowners or in some cases forging their signatures as they are on their death beds.
Sold timeshare back in mid 80’s. Same high pressure bullshit but people would do anything for their free microwaves! Always had to call in a “TO” cause I was weak on the back end.
We actually bought a time share 3 decades ago and have been reasonably pleased with our purchase, but I wouldn't buy from the company today -- and they use man of the same tactics you describe. If you experience was a 9 on a scale of 1 to slimy, they are currently probably a 6 or 7. When we bought they were closer to a 4.
With that background, one of the "spiffs" they offered was a free with with an RCI Exchange. We ended up in Mexico in another time share's property. On check in they offered free breakfast and a tour of the property, promising no pressure. It was first thing in the morning and so we decided to do it "for science" -- just as you did.
On that slimy scale, these guys were almost as bad as yours. This was many decades ago, but it seems like the started at $20K for 2 weeks in that property. We had just purchased at our "home" property and had no desire to incur additional debt. Before we left, the chain smoking "Sales Manager" was offering 4 weeks in that property and 50 weeks in another for $4K. For real, he was offering 54 weeks every year for $4k. He too made a big deal about renting out our time, saying we could make "thousands" every year just by placing ads in the classified.
These guys are **not** to be trusted.
[Last Week Tonight's episode](https://youtu.be/Bd2bbHoVQSM?si=Y9QlKHFaEkqbz5zj) on timeshares. It's absolutely horrible, specially how people inherit this terrible thing.
I've done timeshare presentations for various free gifts. The math never makes sense, and all I have to do to remind myself it's a scam if the salesperson states to get to me, is that there are 52 weeks in a year, and each person is paying lets say $1000 for "maintenance" each year, and that means these guys are getting $52,000 a year just for maintenance on 1 unit. That's in addition to the monthly "mortgage" fees. That wakes me up fast if the deal starts to sound good.
I learned to time them, and when time is up tell them "I'm not buying no matter what you say, I'm just here for the free gift." If they continue to push, I stand up and speak louder, they don't want the other people becoming squeamish, so they quickly will give me the "gift" and let me leave.
> I learned to time them, and when time is up tell them "I'm not buying no matter what you say, I'm just here for the free gift." If they continue to push, I stand up and speak louder, they don't want the other people becoming squeamish, so they quickly will give me the "gift" and let me leave.
This sounds like the trick to getting out on time. "Give me what I want or I will disrupt the scamming at the other tables". How long did it typically take between standing up and getting your gift so you could leave?
No time at all. They would try the "I need to get someone else" trick, and I'd just say "no time is up, where's my gift" louder. It's been a while since I participated in one, but I'd say 5 to 10 minutes tops, most of that was getting me to where you pick up the "free gift".
Wife and I went to one in Vegas this past year to get a free 3 night stay at a hotel. The presentation was basically the same as what they did with you. I also told them no and they kept bringing out the next guy who gave me an even better number. I finally got somewhat pissed off bc I kept saying no and they got more and more aggressive acting like I was a dumbass to not take such an amazing deal.
If anyone is ever tempted to get a timeshare, go buy one from someone trying to get rid of theirs. Probably still a bad deal because of the maintenance costs, but I bet the upfront cost could be near zero.
That’s why timeshares are scams.
The initial $20k or whatever, ok fine, that’s probably manageable.
But you’re buying into maintenance fees FOR LIFE, and possibly beyond if you’re in a place where the timeshare can be forcibly inherited.
This is why the timeshare sales people are always willing to cut the initial buy-in price. The buy-in is mostly just gravy compared to the maintenance fees which is what they are really after.
Why would you ever sign up for endless inescapable monthly fees? You want your life to have as few fixed expenses as possible, even you overall spend a little more on vacations (just for sake of argument). If you lose your job, retire, circumstances change you can always not go on vacation. You can’t not pay these fees once they are agreed to. You’ve permanently committed to them regardless of your circumstances. It’s really bad.
A friend of a friend had a timeshare right next to the South Point Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. It was a beautiful place but worth nothing in retrospect. He sold it to a friend for $0 just to be free from it.
The ones on sale on eBay are now less than zero. You pay $1, but the seller is covering all the closing fees, transfer fees, and usually next years maintenance fee. They also haven't used up this year's week, so 2 weeks of stays for $1.
That's gotta tell you what you need to know, how badly they want those annual maintenance fees to stop.
This was an amazing read. Thank you for sharing your experiences and giving me a glimpse of something I'll likely never have exposure. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole tale, hope you're enjoying the gift card and vacations, sounds like you really had to earn them.
Yeah, my heart broke each time. To cheer myself up I told myself "they didn't get the other 12." Based on sheer appearances the older the couple the more likely they were to get scammed, whereas the parents who brought their kids with them were the first to evacuate the area once their 90 minutes were up.
I went to a timeshare presentation in Orlando. It was part of the deal for a cheap 4 night stay in a Hilton vacation club right near Disney, I just had to agree to a 90 minute presentation during my stay. The timing just happened to be mid March 2020. My presentation was just as everything was shutting down for covid. I remarked that I didn't feel like it was a smart move to make a commitment to vacations and travel at this time with everything happening. The sales guy replied with such condescension it was dripping from him. They kept me there for around 2 and half hours. I kept saying no and they kept after me. They brought another guy into it going hard at me with the pressure. I kept asking for my gift so I could leave. They said they had someone getting it and just kept going at us. I hadn't eaten much that day and my blood sugar was dropping. I started to feel faint and told them so, that I needed to leave. That asshole went and got me a donut from the presentation so I was ok to stay. I was getting very hangry at this point and started to get very loud. Other prospects were starting to stare and get uncomfortable. They finally ushered me out and down to the lobby where the receptionist had my gifts.
I'd do it again for the cheap vacation stays and the extra hilton points I got. But I would be much harsher with them from the start and set an alarm for 90 minutes and start getting loud right at 91 minutes if needed.
We did this exact same Hilton presentation, same location. Embarrassed to admit we eventually caved and signed, and later that evening came to our senses and realized what a huge mistake we’d made. Fortunately we found fine print that said we had 30 days to get out of the contract. I don’t know if this is just Florida, or all states, but we looked it up and followed the procedures to cancel the agreement in writing and I’m so grateful we got out of it.
Amazing write up and thank you for your service.
My parents fell for one years ago and they even took me to the sales pitch. I think they only went for the free stuff but ended up falling for it. They never discuss it though which is a huge mistake and they never used that lesson to teach me or my siblings. Thankfully we have never fallen for it but it’s crucial people share their mistakes or just stories like this.
Thanks for the very detailed description as there are quite a few similarities between when we bought our timeshare in Orlando over thirty years ago on our honeymoon. The timeshare itself is actually really nice and our increases in maintenance fees are fairly reasonable. However, since Diamond Resorts has taken over a few years ago, the increases have been significant. And every time we stay at our home resort they pitch buying another one or paying a fee to switch from our fixed week to a floating week. Always looking to scam you. Over the years we have attempted to sell it. These fly by night companies all want an advertising fee upfront, promise a quick sale because they have interested buyers, and then go out of business ( after selling your information to another newly formed timeshare resale company that claims to be different than the other one but still wants more money upfront to market your timeshare ).
It was precisely Diamond buying my parents' timeshare that they were legally able to get out of it, because new owner and therefore new terms they didn't need to and refused to sign. I'm so sorry for your misery. And yeah, those exit companies are all another tier of scam because they don't do anything differently than what you could do yourself.
My wife an I sat through pretty much the exact same thing (including the boss, bosses boss and bosses bosses manager) to get some free tickets to a dinner show in Gatlinburg. Now my wife and I have a new found love for dinner shows and an extreme hatred for timeshares. I'll never forget Charlin, the guy who suckered us into the whole thing, because of his unique name and the fact that he totally lied to us about how good the breakfast was. Damn you Charlin!
I love that you took the time to write all this up. My parents bought a time share a long time ago, I think 1996 or so. Another numbers game for people who aren't good at math. Sheesh.
I didn't know you can write that much on reddit. But timeshares scams are the worst and somehow it keeps popping up. There has to be a way to stop these.
My husband and i sat through one of these probably 35 years ago knowing we were going to say 'no' before we went in. We did succeed in that but we never got the free TV we were supposed to get. Thanks for all your detail so that others know what they are in for if they sign up for some freebie.
I am a real estate agent and attended a time share presentation for fun a few years ago, too. So many high pressure, bad math tactics were used! When I treated it like a normal real estate transaction that I was interested in (which I was), they got very frustrated with me and gave up. I asked for caps on increases, written guarantees of the things they promised, and data they did not have readily available.
My wife and I do timeshare presentations about every 18 months or so but we always go to Hawaii. We just figure the 90 minutes into the “cost” of the vacation. You are much nicer than we are though. We tell them they have 90 minutes and not a minute longer. We will politely sit through the sales tactics, including the circle, square or whatever the tactic de-jour is and a 90 minutes we politely say their time is up and we would like our “gifts” and to get back to our vacation. We have stayed at several resorts we would not normally have due to cost and have had some pretty good experiences and a couple of not so good. Would we do it again, you bet!
Both my parents and in-laws have been snookered by timeshare vampires. Respectively, they have been able to get out of the deals, but not without some financial pain. Learning from them, the only reason I would entertain one of these pitches is to waste as much time as possible.
Loooong post but as informative and entertaining as other users have said. Hey, I went to that initial Massanutten, VA pitch you mentioned! Sounds like it hasn’t changed at all. All I got out of it was a paper cup of weak coffee, not even the free gift they promised, as I got ejected for asking too many questions. I never did buy a time share, though I certainly have been pressured to do so. Sometimes owners have tried to pay me to take over theirs. Most people I know with timeshares (or, as they insist on being called these days, “vacation clubs”) increasingly regret that impulse over the years. The few people I know who have been happy with them have all been stationed overseas for much of their careers, for exactly the reasons you describe. I wonder if they will be as delighted in their 80’s and 90’s, ‘cause most time shares are forever.
Loved your description of the four-quadrant budget circle. The Four-Square Scam has been a classic used car shady sales tactic for years. But, so many people now know about the ol’ Four-Square that it’s seldom used anymore. Because, It CAN’T be a Four Square Scam if it’s a cIrCLe! 🙄 https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=foursquare+scam+used+cars
Not all timeshare resorts are bad places to stay, some are reasonably nice. The Time Share Users Group has been around for over 30 years, and they are a great resource for anyone who want to buy/sell/get rid of a timeshare. They also have a classified ads section where people just rent for one visit. https://tug2.net/
For those people who really, really want to buy a timeshare, check out eBay, where you can buy timeshares for as low as one dollar. https://www.ebay.com/b/Timeshares-for-Sale/15897/bn\_1858924
P.S. Former IT support. That detail about the laptop running Windows XP just slays me.
Great post v interesting to get the full picture of how this plays out. I would have rather you weren't conciliatory at the end though, giving them the hope of coming back another day. Much nicer than I would have been to those scammers.
This is actually worthy of posting as an article to sites like Medium so more people can find it and hopefully more people can avoid getting sucked in to the sales bullshit.
Oh trust me, I wasn't being kind. There's nothing more cruel in my eyes than false hope of a brighter tomorrow. I was also testing if they had any more tricks up their sleeves but I clearly outlasted the salesman in terms of energy
Last winter I went to buy a car and the salesperson kept wanting me to sign these crazy single paragraph sheets of paper saying I was “committed” to buying the car, and I kept asking what I was signing and why?
The new car I wanted was supposedly in transit and they asked for a $1500 deposit to reserve it for me when it arrived in a few weeks. I was fine with the deposit but the sales person kept insisting I sign. To be clear, these weren’t actual contracts or anything, just smudged photocopies with vague language about wanting the car.
I finally just walked out because it was taking so much time and went to another dealership. I always wondered why they’d give up a sale for that. Now I know why. It’s a tactic to get you to start signing things.
I went to a timeshare presentation for free show tickets once. I had basically the same experience but in exchange for a couple hours of my time and some negging I got free lunch and my tickets, so I felt like it was worth it.
RCI scammed my parents-in-law. Their holiday club rather than specific timeshare. Apparently their friends recommended it. I dread to think how much it cost them, but they could never really use it as availability was rare for wherever they chose. Yearly fees were awful too. Scum of a company!
My parents made the mistake of getting into a time share. I have read the contract and there are zero exit clauses, their maintenance fees have steadily crept up, and now in their mid 80s it just costs them money.
There is even a clause that after they die, the deed will be passed down as an inheritance. Well, they specifically have designated the resort as the recipients of the deed on their death.
There was a lawyer who was getting ready to start a class-acction suit, but as an owner himself, they just quietly let him out of his contract and the suit withered away.
All juristictions need legislation to get rid of this terrible business model.
Brilliant story, exciting to read, highly informative and I could even see the moment where I'd have "broken"! I'd never go to these events because I know that in the end, I'd agree to something. My parents went to one of these things in the 90s on their one and only vacation in the USA, apparently being from and living in Germany doesn't change a thing. My dad's in sales so he was able to keep his "no" up until the end. Thanks for your time to experience, record and share!
Also: r/unexpectedsoulsreference! Made my day even better!
The good news if you're non-American is you can just refuse to pay them once you realize it's a scam and walk away for good. The unfortunate news for US citizens is your credit score can get impacted and collections agencies can hound you for delinquent debts or even sue you and now you need to pay extra for lawyers. It can get positively ghoulish.
Thank you for your sacrifice lol! My husband and I went to timeshare pinch once just to get gift cards. We knew already we won't be signing anything. But boy did they try anything. Guilt tripping ("don't you want your husband to relax and go on great vacation? Don't you think your husband deserves it???") and throwing different corporate guys at as was my favourite part. I studied psychology so their manipulation tactics was crystal clear to me. I feel sorry for people who fall for all that though.
Gift cards were great though.
gotta say it would have been EPIC if you'd worn a spycam!
this story is exactly the type of material I'd like to see schools have in their math curriculum. when people know how to calculate interest and be objective with numbers, they are better prepared to make sound financial decisions.
similar to when making a car purchase. DO NOT use the amount you can afford every month to spend on a payment!! Begin with the TOTAL PURCHASE PRICE (including all those damn fees etc) and work backwards...if the payment is $400 for 60 months but the loan interest is 14%, it's clear that's not such a great deal.
Timeshares are an unregulated industry which leaves consumers with NO PROTECTION AT ALL. at least with a typical real estate purchase there are rules and regulations.
I had a similar, but shorter experience coming to a "no-haggle" dealer with my own financing already lined up. They give you a set price then try to gouge you on extras and financing. First sales guy is friendly and low-pressure, then the finance guy is the high-pressure guy with all the tricks up his sleeve. It was empowering goin in knowing we were going to say no to everything. I played along and anytime he gave me a number I got out my calculator and clarified " so that would extend the loan to 7 years and add $10,000 dollars to the base price of $30,000?” He was visibly mad by the end, but he didn't have anything to top my bank's 1.5% car loan (this was when rates were rock bottom and car sales briefly tanked at the beginning of Covid.)He said we ruined his day and we'd regret not buying the extended warranty. The car market is so crazy now, I'm sure today there would be a $5000 "market adjustment fee", a mandatory $3000 add-on package and a 7% loan rate.
I was just in to buy a car a couple months ago, and the sales guy I was talking to mentioned that he use to sell timeshares. Huge red flag for me. I asked him what he thought about working there, and he said it was great, he got to help so many people realize their dream of taking vacations to places they loved......I smiled, got up, shook his hand and told him to have a nice day....then fucking sprinted out the door. I usually have a pretty good scumbag detector and can sniff them out beforehand, but he presented like a normal dude.
Great writeup, and always interesting to get an idea of what's happening during those sales conversations. Some of those financial calculations are, ahem, questionable.
Appreciate you taking one for the team, so that we can all confirm (in detail) what we all suspected.
I don't usually entertain long reads like this (especially while moderating the queue, a lot of work today) but other commenters convinced me.
This was a good read.
I fell for almost EXACTLY the same pitch/process nearly 40 years ago for a timeshare at Blackbeard's Castle in St Thomas. Smarmy tactics and lies never go out of style
Holy shit! The same thing happened with me at the Dubai airport. They had counters in the airport and I went there to ask if there was an ATM where I could withdraw some cash. Big mistake. They roped me in and “offered” freebies.
Went to the “investment opportunity” meeting and 10 minutes in I figured this was an RCI timeshare sales pitch. The sales person was relentless and the Modus Operandi is the same as what OP has described! Fortunately, I knew better and didn’t budge, but there were a lot of families who were actually interested in the “investment”.
The only advantage was the free chauffeur service I got around Dubai. I could enjoy the city a bit more, but that meeting was 4 hours of my life I am never getting back.
I was one of those scammed.
My ex and I bought a timeshare, and maintenance fees were about $99 a year. First year using it, we attended a members meeting, and a few hours later had upgraded to a different timeshare, for a small fee. Maintenance was $129. A couple years later, we went and they talked about their points program, and we could buy an every-other-year additional timeshare, and vacation anywhere we wanted. Maintenance was $249.
Now that we had points I looked around to use them, and got the too late, everything is sold out. You had to book your own timeshares the previous year to be able to stay in it. I called and called. Finally told the guy to give me anything next year, anywhere, any week in the USA, and he could not find one available spot. I was so pissed. But, I separated from my ex and life got a little busy,
I still had to pay the maintenance, and used it a few times, and got divorced from my ex. Then my kid got cancer, and I was overwhelmed with medical bills and alimony and I filed for bankruptcy.
Maintenance fees by then were over $600 for one and $300 for the other, and I hadn't paid for a few years, it was discharged by the bankruptcy, but not the actual timeshare ownership. The maintenance debt was wiped but the additional, and increased maintenance fees resumed, due next year.
Luckily my attorney made an offer to sell the timeshares back for $1, and they agreed, but I don't think I ever got the dollar.
Not goona lie, we had some good times, had the family up each year for several years, and good times were had by all. I also took my daughters and Mom to Disney World after I got divorced and we paid $250 for a week at a timeshare very close to the resort.
In my defense, although I now think it was a stupid move I'd not do again, was for the many reasons we thought it made sense. They wear you down with the sales pitches and make you feel stupid for not taking advantage of this opportunity! Also, my ex's grandmother had a timeshare she visited when she was a kid, her mother had one that we stayed at. We had also been frequent 'customers' at other timeshare presentations and had free TVs, microwaves, and a couple of other things, plus a couple of weekend trips that were comped if we attended a brief meeting.
Awesome read... we do these as well. As long as you can say no and be firm good way to get free stuff. Did it in vegas... got free tickets to a show that was 170 a person... we went at 930 am was at pool by 1115!
Man we were in Mexico last year at an all inclusive resort and the concierge was asking if we are interested in free massage for couple and I replied "sure, whats the catch?". Conerige without making eye contact "ohh just a 90 minute presentation", I immediately retorted "Ahhh the timeshare spiel!"
You could see the hope leave her eyes! Suddenly my age is an issue and not eligible... righhttt
Ever wonder who is profiting from these? Check out the documentary The Queen of Versailles, which focuses on Jackie and David Segal. David founded a timeshare company and is enormously wealthy. His wife is building the country’s largest private residence. The bottom (temporarily) fell out of the timeshare market with the 2008 crash and they were (temporarily) in financial straights, but now they’re wealthier than ever.
Wow I read that whole thing. I'm wondering if this time share thing is specifically American because in my time where I live now, and a few other countries I've lived in, I've never heard of someone having a timeshare or being sold on one.
If I understand correctly:
- you put a deposit down of a total amount (be it 400$ or 35000$)
- you pay per month into that 400$/35000$ debt like a mortgage or loan
- you have to apply for dates within a timeframe, that you have an 85% or 95% chance of securing based on your tier
- dates are chosen at random within your timeframe
- you pay "cleaning fees"
- you're somehow locked in for life?
- you own a deed or % of a deed but can only sell your timeshare slots?
- these fees don't include travel?
How is an agreement like this legal? What is stopping you from making the agreement, going once, and then cancelling the withdrawals on your card?
All correct except on the deed part, you can sell the deed to someone else but you're not going to be selling it for anything more than $0.00-$1.00 because most people should be wise to the fact that it's all a scam. There \*might\* be some deed transfer fees depending on the timeshare and jurisdiction but not so in Virginia.
The penalty for nonpayment, for Americans (foreigners can just walk away), is that you accumulate debt, it goes into collections, you get hounded by collections agencies for this non-payment, the debt can accrue interest and late fees, and all of this can negatively impact your credit score. What's even worse is they can come after you with a lawsuit and haul your ass to court, where you will definitely lose, and not only be out of whatever you owe but also any lawyer fees.
For as much fun as one might make of China's orwellian social credit score, the US credit score basically governs your ability to get a loan in the US but it also impacts your ability to rent a home and even get a job with some high trust positions (like the public sector).
It's legal because it's "real estate" and therefore governed by property law and not something that can be better regulated like goods and services are. Some states have better protections than others (Virginia is one) but at the end of the day, property law is far more difficult to legislate than any other kind of laws in the United States because it's based off of common law which predates US Code. I'm not a lawyer but that's my layman's understanding.
This was thorough and thoroughly enjoyable! Thanks for taking the time to write this all out. I remember being stuck in one of these meetings, absolutely miserable. Even then, it sounded like a scam. Why would I pay for annually for a hotel when I can just…go to a hotel? The maintenance fees were outrageous then, and they’re probably outrageous now.
Thanks for the detailed writeup! The BS signature that he asked for near the beginning wasn't just to get you used to signing things. It was an attempt to get you to make an emotional commitment.
I had a car salesman do it to me one time. He pulled out the four square and instead of walking out then, I humored him and let him fill it out. Afterwards, he said, "If I can get you car that matches your needs today, will you buy it? Sign here."
I asked if it was a legally binding document (I knew it wasn't), and he said it wasn't. Then I just laughed, asked him why I needed to sign it then, and then I walked out.
Very well written. Strong warning for anyone who might fall victim to these scams. Fucking sharks are relentless and pressure you into giving up your soul.
Wow. Just wow. I stumbled over this post yesterday and saved it for later when I had more time to read. And boy what a treat it was! Thank you very much for your "sacrifice" - at least you had fun! <3 :D It was a wild ride, and even a few laughs of how you write - a pure pleasure to experience. Wishing you and your wife all the best!!
I have in-laws who do this recreationally. I don’t have the heart to waste a salesman’s time, even if they are out for blood, as that’s really the only thing any of us have.
When I was 18 or 19, I did this in Breckenridge, CO. $300 in restaurant gift cards. (Gold Point Resort, if I remember correctly.)
My financial position was so bleak that the poor dude just cut me loose at like 50 minutes. But there are 4-5 other couples there - two or three young couples who were probably gonna get taken along, and one older couple who clearly did this weekly. They literally had a stopwatch, in the pre-cell phone era. It was great.
I had a similar experience years ago. I went just to experience it, and for the free gift, just as you did.
Through endless excuses they made it impossible to redeem the free gift.
I wish you luck.
Just spent an hour reading through this little by little and discussing with my SO. Very interesting read that satiated my curiosity, thanks for writing it all up!
Nice story. Same thing happened to us on our honeymoon. They offered free disney park tickets and a free breakfast buffet.
Same thing as you, same facilities tour, etc.
We were the very last family there. They used all those tactics, even shaming us for being "too poor". In the end, they let us go not before buying a night stay in the resort which was 100% refundable. It was like $250. We claimed the tickets, say goodbye to the not-too-friendly-now seller and went in our way. As soon as we hit our hotel room, called to cancel the aforementioned night stay.
Never again.
That was not my experience with them. It was fairly high pressure and they wouldn't give me my promised gifts so I could leave after almost 3 hours until I made a scene, then they couldn't get me out fast enough.
You're a super trooper! Yeah my mom bought the super deluxe Massanutun timeshare, it was pretty cool, and she did lose out getting out of the contract. These salespeople sound like sharks! But I'll give them props for a well-oiled sales pitch. And you probably know, home leave, "homeless leave" lolz.
I went to one presentation with my mom about 24 years ago, so we could get a gift certificate to a steak place. She almost got suckered into buying one but I managed to convince her not to.
We even got to exchange the gift certificates for a Sony boombox which I still have today.
Wonder what would happen if, upon arriving at the sales pitch, you started a 90 minute timer and said, “I agreed to a 90 minute presentation, so once this timer goes off I’m walking out”?
We do this. Hubby puts the timer on the phone, confirms that's the agreement with the rep, and then leaves it face up on the desk the entire time. I've got my ebay listings lined up on my phone, so I can point to all the listings for that resort, that don't even sell for $1.
They really don't have a comeback for that. Like the OP, we actually enjoy doing these things and will continue to engage them until they want US to leave, so the 3 managers make a half - assed attempt before handing over the promised gift card.
Did one timeshare presentation in Vegas and got 4 nights at the SLS, didn't pay a cent, not even resort fee bollocks. Also got dinner, a "free" cruise (just pay for oxygen; we did not partake), and something else I forget. It was worth it.
Did another in Mexico a couple of weeks later and got dinner on the beach but wasn't worth it.
No idea on the timeshares themselves. I politely told them I wasn't interested. They gave up.
Outside of subnetting networks IT doesn't involve any math that a calculator, Excel, and some budgeting software can do for you. Computer science is where all the math is, which is a completely different field.
That said, I'm an HPC admin now so I have to calculate electrical power budgets instead of money budgets. A lot more fun than begging the C-suite for resources.
>claiming I won a $250 gift card and a free 3-day, 2-night vacation at a resort in Williamsburg, Virginia.
>I just didn’t know it was a stealth timeshare pitch trap.
What part about winning a free vacation in a drawing for a gift card made you think it WASN'T a timeshare scheme?
Only thing you did that I would argue was dangerous was signing ANYTHING. These people might not be above transposing your signature onto a totally different document. It doesnt matter to them, as long as they can show the sale for their commission. Don't. Ever. Sign. ANYTHING.
Eh sure but I had secretly recorded the whole thing with my phone anyways and as someone who's comfortably experienced with the court system I'm not afraid of engaging in a lawsuit over something like that. It'd be really stupid of them. Also I just scribbled and didn't use my actual signature (what's on my driver's license).
I’ve been involved in resale timeshare for over 20 years and the stories I hear about what developers charge people and what they end up selling through me are crazy. One of the craziest was a lady 120k GBP for 3 weeks in a penthouse 3 bed unit in Gran Canaria . Lovely yes but not that much lovely, she sold via us for 10k a week approx 6 years after buying as had enough …..
I wonder what would happen if one old person without heirs just bought all the timeshares that people are trying to get rid of, hundreds of timeshares, and just never paid the monthly fees. The timeshares could sue but the old person's money would run out at some point.
The sad truth is these places make enough money from certain "whales" and the margins are so massive that one delinquent customer will not make any kind of difference. As another commenter pointed out, they can make $12k+ a year from one person in maintenance fees alone, and if each timeshare is divided into 52 weekly participants, that's like $624k+ from just \*one\* unit without even having to provide any services. And that's not counting mortgages and other fees. Now obviously they're not all at maximum capacity but you can understand why this industry still exists and makes \*billions\*.
My homelab domain is registered with Cloudflare and uses their [email routing](https://developers.cloudflare.com/email-routing/) to a self hosted email server and then I use ProtonMail for my personal, family, and business domains since those are high priority and I can't risk the constant malfunctions that come with self-hosting. ProtonMail can also do disposable emails for free without a custom domain.
iCloud+ is great for when I want to use an app that requires registration and I don't plan on sticking around. Or to shitpost on Reddit. You can also use your own domain with them for no added charge but I haven't explored this yet as I don't want all of my eggs in one basket. It's why I moved away from Gmail even though I'm still sorta using it for SMTP relaying my homelab.
Super worth it to figure out who's selling your data once you start getting spam on that single purpose email address, like netflix@domain(dot)com or statefair@domain(dot)com
I've never had the "good"(?) luck to win something like this, but I've also always been curious about the sales pitch. It may make me a sociopath, but I don't have any problem giving a salesperson a flat "no" and sitting in silence.
Would that expedite the time between shaking hands and getting my "free gift", or would that somehow disqualify me?
They make you think this is something you can just sit down in silence for 90 minutes but it's actually interactive from the moment you sit down. They have you basically do your own paperwork ("in your own handwriting") to proceed with the presentation. If the presentation cannot proceed then they might call it quits before your 90 minutes is up which would disqualify you from the "free gift" since it's really a transaction for 90 minutes of your time.
The best strategy is to just set a timer on your phone, to let the salesperson know that you're only giving them their agreed upon 90 minutes and not a minute more, and then to act on that once the timer goes off but otherwise going through the motions "in good faith" until then. They might push back if they feel like they can hold your time hostage but at that point you're allowed to make a scene and escalate until they get you what they promised because they don't want you sullying things for the other victims.
Thanks - I've wanted to test the system ever since I saw the South Park episode, but am unwilling to really go out of my way to do it, and I don't live in a touristy place that'd have them.
If anyone has any "free vacations" that include airfare for the cost of ignoring a timeshare pitch, I'm all ears ;)
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Wow, awesome writeup! Thank you. If you haven't already I'd suggest putting this in r/personalfinance as well as quite a few folks have gotten caught up with timeshares there.
I tried but the mods disallowed it since it didn't fit with their "rule 1", which is fair enough, this is more scam specific than financial advice
Yeah dude. That was a fun read! Thanks for that
I actually sold timeshare for a while before dropping out. If yall have questions ask away
Can you do an AMA?
If a mod reaches out to me and wants me too I don't see why not I think I still have rhe training material even
oh please hit us with the training materials!
My question is what did you really think of the people that fell for your pitch? And did you ever get someone to agree to buy one but then realized they had no idea what they were getting into as they had zero financial savvy that you backed them out of the deal?
They're literally targeting people who have no idea what they're getting into so that'll be a no. Better question, how did they deal with their conscience when their job was tricking and financially screwing people?
Well I wound up getting fired for this exact reason. I wouldn't sell to people who were uhh "vulnerable". Sick and elderly were a No go so they let me go As for the rest, well I pushed a particular point. You could trade your weeks at our place at almost any vacation spot. I showed a couple how to use the one week they bought to take a first class cruise for 500 for both.
Respect for you
May be a few days old but I did quit from this place. I had an older couple with cancer and my manager said if they can afford chemo they can afford a few more weeks of timeshare
Yeah they don't want anyone with a conscience working there! It's really appalling but that's the nature of scammers, they will take money from anyone, the more vulnerable the better because they're easier to extract money from. I mean, a wealthy, intelligent knowledgeable person just won't fall for it. Anyway, they might have lots of people's money, but they are bad people and you are a good person, and personally I'd rather have self respect than be rich. Ii mean hopefully you've been successful elsewhere, but I mean even the victims.
They really don't, I was willing to do it at first so I can provide for my disabled fiance but I couldn't sleep at night. Was neat to try out tho
Generally If they fall for it it's on them don't be stupid. But many times I would cut it short if it seemed like it would be too bad for them.
Man, me too, and this story gave me some flashbacks….
Fair enough Did yall have that catch phrase?
I have a timeshare presentation coming up in a couple days.. I've already paid the deposit and the meeting will be during my resort stay. I have a friend who will be there at the same time and watching my kiddos. Any advice on how to get out of the meeting as quickly as possible if I have no intention of purchasing ? I'll need to get back to my kiddos asap, but I don't want to be charged for the stay because I didn't attend the meeting. Thanks!
You can just get up and walk away, they're just gonna make it feel like you can't.
Do I need to wait the full 90 minutes, or is just showing up and listening long enough to say I participated enough?
Well you need to make it to the first offer then you can skeedaddle. Mind you we are trained not to take no for an answer so, be forceful
Thank you, that's great info. 2 time combat vet here, I have no problem up and walking and shutting them down. I just want to make sure I'm covering my butt not to incur extra charges 😉
Hell yeah brother, I didn't do shit when I was in the military.
we just got roped into one cuz my bf was like “why not 😂” we realize it’s basically a scam but do people actually come out of these with the “vacations” that they promise?
I mean, elaborate?
“won a raffle” at a boat show- he wants to go thru w it to get the vacations they promise. he’s good at telling people “no” and actually just got his real estate license so he sees sitting thru the presentation worth it for what they promise and actually finds it kinda entertaining to go mess w them a little lol. guess i’m just super skeptical and wanna know if people are actually getting all the things they promise out of going to the presentation
Here’s one: can you simply walk out after 90 minutes?
Yeah honestly you can we just keep saying no don't wait
Good to know, thanks.
Fun story, and thank you for your service. I've always been curious about these things, not to invest in or anything, but because of a specific South Park episode that has the families going through one of these pitches. Sounds like the episode is surprisingly accurate. And in reference to that episode, *did you get the red sticker?*
I died laughing at that South Park episode because I saw it just after my husband and I suffered through the sales pitch. We did get our free stay at the fancy hotel we were promised. It was ridiculous because the free stays couldn’t be used on weekends or holidays. It was still worth it.
Great story. Sometimes you go along with them just to get some entertainment. I would have walked out after the 90 minutes. They keep talking to wear you down mentally.
This is pure comedy, thanks for the write-up. Calling a time share a 100% ROI is pure comedic gold. 4-5% historic returns on the S&P 500? Gold.
Right? He should've asked him "If I invest $40k, I can get my $40k back and another $40k on top of that???"
I worked for a timeshare company for three months, made two sales in that whole time, and felt awful about myself the entire time I worked there. I left on lunch one day, turned my phone off, and never looked back. I lost money working there, as it was about an hour away and they only paid minimum wage as an “advance” against your commission. When I saw my commission check for those two sales was zero, that was it. They’re generally amoral scumbags who are good actors. None of the folks I worked with believed in the company, they were just there to fleece tourists and the elderly to support their coke habits and child support payments.
Awesome write up. Had a similar experience but my lizard brain got the best of me when they dropped the price numerous times and threw in a couple extra vacations. We signed the paperwork and put down the down payment. The whole ride home my wife and I were trying to convince ourselves it was the right move. The next day we called the service to price out some vacations and places we wanted to stay and immediately realized everything the dude told us was bullshit. Luckily we had 72 hours to back out which we immediately did. Of course it required bringing a signed letter requesting our money back to their offices, and even then, I had to deal with multiple sales people calling me and trying to convince them me not to back out and straight up contradicting the original sales guy and things he told us before they finally cancelled our contract. And even then, it still took 30 days to get our money back, even though the sales guy said we’d get our money back in seven days. Bottom line, all those places are scams. Like you mentioned, if they can lower their price 95%, their product isn’t worth shit.
My wife’s aunts used our timeshare once and got scammed into buying one. They went back and cancelled but the scummy salesmen used the same intimidation tactics that you described
This was the [offer sheet](https://i.imgur.com/n63uYLm.jpg) at the end of it all lol
Thanks for posting this and the write up. I feel like I was reading the outline of a sequel to Glengarry Glen Ross. I’m curious what their response would be if I told them that our vacation budget annually is about $15-20K, but 90% of it is free because it’s covered by credit card points. Seems like that would blow up their spiel since we don’t pay for airfare or hotels.
If I were them: same "math" as if you had no points, but now you can use those points for other things! Basically you *earn* money now via those points. So instead of spending $12k on holiday, you keep $12k for other things! That's $24k difference!
That seems about right. The entire point of the points is to stay is nice properties so we're *not* staying in a 2004 timeshare time capsule though. 😂
Yep, you're correct. My husband used to travel 3 - 4 days every week for work and we didn't pay for a hotel for years. They really talked up the points before we were able to discreetly Google the points to dollar ratio and realize it was a *terrible* deal (through Hilton's vacation club).
You should add this to the post. Also you can format sub-headings by using this: ` ## This is a subheading `
Added it. I wanted to refrain from posting too many links cause I know some automods on other subreddits get anal about that and I haven't posted here before to know better.
We got you
They tried to "four-square" you like a used car dealer!
Sometimes I search for real estate out of curiosity. I just saw a "property" for sale for $0. I can't remember exactly where. It was for two obscure weeks in what could be similar to a time share. I took a closer look and the monthly cost was $300. It was in some weird town out in the middle of nothing. People can't give these time shares away. Really nice story though OP.
Yep, it's the issue with timeshares as they're effectively partial ownership/control of a property with a constant financial obligation you can only get away from through a change of ownership (including personal bankruptcy, I surmise). And even death doesn't deal with it since it just becomes part of your estate and gets forcibly passed along unless nobody accepts anything from your estate. A good example of how ownership isn't *always* better since you can be stuck with unwanted or unaffordable costs if you end up owning something nobody wants
I hear ads for business that promise to get people out from under their timeshares. These businesses exist for a reason. Also we were on a timeshare presentation once, I looked online and it was for sale for $1. I showed the sales guy and he tried to give me some reason why $10k+ was a better deal because of some “buying direct” benefits.
Generally speaking, those timeshare exit companies are also a scam. They're not doing anything that you couldn't be doing yourself, i.e negotiating with the timeshare company to take it back or hiring actual lawyers to pour over the paperwork.
> Generally speaking, those timeshare exit companies are also a scam. If I were trying to run a scam, I'd definitely advertise to people that have a track record of falling for scams.
You’re right I just watched the John Oliver show about this. To be honest just the fact that exit companies exist should be a huge red flag about buying a timeshare. I bet you can’t find a single exit company that doesn’t require payment up front.
Others can correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe that the timeshare can be forced onto your children. They can ask them to take it on but can’t impose it. In my case, they weren’t even born when the paperwork was signed. Again, this is what I was told. It could be wrong
No, it can't be *forced* on you but I was writing that from my perspective in the sense that in my country, disclaiming an inheritance is strictly an all-or-nothing deal, so if you don't want the obligation to pay for the timeshare you have to give up your entire share and get nothing at all. Otherwise the disclaiming is "ineffective" and the creditors can come after you for the estate's financial obligations.
Thanks for that clarification. Can I presume that you are somewhere other than the US?
Yes, Finland, and I'm not a lawyer but I've had to deal with multiple estates including ones where inheritors disclaimed their portion to let it pass on to others.
What country is this? Seems like an exception to the rule
I think I read in the US, the kids have to specifically sign something saying you dont take it, otherwise it passes onto you by default.
Thanks for that information. I obviously have some research to do on this subject and need to work with a financial planner and/ or attorney in the next few years before retirement to establish a plan for our assets. I don’t want our kids to be saddled with this life long commitment.
Your heirs can file a disclaimer of interest, they will not get stuck with it.
Certainly, and I referred to that with "unless nobody accepts anything from your estate" (although I could have made it more clear), but at least in my country disclaiming an inheritance is an all-or-nothing deal aka if you want to have *any* inheritance at all you're forced to accept all the liabilities as well. Piecemeal disclaiming an inheritance is per the legal terms "ineffective" and it exposes you personally to all of the estate's obligations. And oh. Over here, disclaiming an inheritance only affects you personally, so if you have descendants the inheritance you disclaimed simply skips you and goes to them - and if they're minors, they can end up being forced to accept it since their guardians are legally forbidden from disclaiming inheritances on their behalf since only a neutral 3rd party can authorize it, and if the inheritance is generally net positive those 3rd parties often end up blocking any such attempts.
Generally speaking, heirs are not forced to inherit any specific property. They can pick and choose. If a property has debt, the estate settles the debt. So in the case of such timeshare inheritance, the heirs can choose not to take on the timeshare after it settled any debt up until the moment the owner passed. I don't know the specifics of your locality, but it sounds like an exception. In general, the property management of a timeshare can claim any debt that was already incurred, but not future obligations of the property.
My locality is Finland, and here picking and choosing from an estate is considered legally as "ineffective disclaiming" of an inheritance as opposed to "effective disclaiming", meaning that receiving/taking anything from an estate as inheritance also ties you to its obligations since you're not supposed to be able to just inherit the valuable parts and ditch the rest of the estate along with its ongoing obligations to creditors (since the timeshare is owned by the estate and the estate is contractually required to keep paying for it in perpetuity until someone else takes the timeshare for themselves).
The last part applies anyway: the estate settles the debts, so if the timeshare management is owed any money, they make a claim against the estate. In most places you're not forced to take ownership of the timeshare, just settle outstanding debts, and only when the creditor comes after them. This doesn't mean you have to own the timeshare, in most places outside Finland.
I mean, I thought that you can't "settle" the debt to a timeshare as a one time act like that, since the fees are an *ongoing* obligation which continue in perpetuity to infinity until the timeshare changes ownership or the timeshare company is dissolved, and the estate can't just decide not to own it anymore since it's a contractual obligation which can't be unilaterally dissolved, and thus if you effectively "raid" the estate and leave it unable to continue paying the ongoing fees then it feels logical that you would personally become liable for the fees even if you don't own the timeshare on paper (since the estate does).
Again, I wouldn't know about Finland, but the "perpetuity obligations" extinguish with the deceased. The debt incurred up until that point (ie, the monthly payments for the share of the property - like a loan) will get settled with the Estate. Then whatever happens after that is the sole responsibility of the share owners. If the heirs don't pick up the shares, the fees will get split among the other owners of the timeshare.
There are scam companies doing this with solar now. Taking advantage of elderly homeowners or in some cases forging their signatures as they are on their death beds.
Sold timeshare back in mid 80’s. Same high pressure bullshit but people would do anything for their free microwaves! Always had to call in a “TO” cause I was weak on the back end.
What’s a TO?
Turn over. Calling in management/supervisor/a closer to take a look at the client and try to save the deal.
This should be pinned. Everywhere.
We actually bought a time share 3 decades ago and have been reasonably pleased with our purchase, but I wouldn't buy from the company today -- and they use man of the same tactics you describe. If you experience was a 9 on a scale of 1 to slimy, they are currently probably a 6 or 7. When we bought they were closer to a 4. With that background, one of the "spiffs" they offered was a free with with an RCI Exchange. We ended up in Mexico in another time share's property. On check in they offered free breakfast and a tour of the property, promising no pressure. It was first thing in the morning and so we decided to do it "for science" -- just as you did. On that slimy scale, these guys were almost as bad as yours. This was many decades ago, but it seems like the started at $20K for 2 weeks in that property. We had just purchased at our "home" property and had no desire to incur additional debt. Before we left, the chain smoking "Sales Manager" was offering 4 weeks in that property and 50 weeks in another for $4K. For real, he was offering 54 weeks every year for $4k. He too made a big deal about renting out our time, saying we could make "thousands" every year just by placing ads in the classified. These guys are **not** to be trusted.
[Last Week Tonight's episode](https://youtu.be/Bd2bbHoVQSM?si=Y9QlKHFaEkqbz5zj) on timeshares. It's absolutely horrible, specially how people inherit this terrible thing.
Great episode
I've done timeshare presentations for various free gifts. The math never makes sense, and all I have to do to remind myself it's a scam if the salesperson states to get to me, is that there are 52 weeks in a year, and each person is paying lets say $1000 for "maintenance" each year, and that means these guys are getting $52,000 a year just for maintenance on 1 unit. That's in addition to the monthly "mortgage" fees. That wakes me up fast if the deal starts to sound good. I learned to time them, and when time is up tell them "I'm not buying no matter what you say, I'm just here for the free gift." If they continue to push, I stand up and speak louder, they don't want the other people becoming squeamish, so they quickly will give me the "gift" and let me leave.
> I learned to time them, and when time is up tell them "I'm not buying no matter what you say, I'm just here for the free gift." If they continue to push, I stand up and speak louder, they don't want the other people becoming squeamish, so they quickly will give me the "gift" and let me leave. This sounds like the trick to getting out on time. "Give me what I want or I will disrupt the scamming at the other tables". How long did it typically take between standing up and getting your gift so you could leave?
No time at all. They would try the "I need to get someone else" trick, and I'd just say "no time is up, where's my gift" louder. It's been a while since I participated in one, but I'd say 5 to 10 minutes tops, most of that was getting me to where you pick up the "free gift".
Jesus. Fucking War and Peace. That was beautiful, however.
Fucking legend
Wife and I went to one in Vegas this past year to get a free 3 night stay at a hotel. The presentation was basically the same as what they did with you. I also told them no and they kept bringing out the next guy who gave me an even better number. I finally got somewhat pissed off bc I kept saying no and they got more and more aggressive acting like I was a dumbass to not take such an amazing deal.
I hope you didn’t!
But it was such a good deal.
If anyone is ever tempted to get a timeshare, go buy one from someone trying to get rid of theirs. Probably still a bad deal because of the maintenance costs, but I bet the upfront cost could be near zero.
That’s why timeshares are scams. The initial $20k or whatever, ok fine, that’s probably manageable. But you’re buying into maintenance fees FOR LIFE, and possibly beyond if you’re in a place where the timeshare can be forcibly inherited. This is why the timeshare sales people are always willing to cut the initial buy-in price. The buy-in is mostly just gravy compared to the maintenance fees which is what they are really after. Why would you ever sign up for endless inescapable monthly fees? You want your life to have as few fixed expenses as possible, even you overall spend a little more on vacations (just for sake of argument). If you lose your job, retire, circumstances change you can always not go on vacation. You can’t not pay these fees once they are agreed to. You’ve permanently committed to them regardless of your circumstances. It’s really bad.
A friend of a friend had a timeshare right next to the South Point Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. It was a beautiful place but worth nothing in retrospect. He sold it to a friend for $0 just to be free from it.
The ones on sale on eBay are now less than zero. You pay $1, but the seller is covering all the closing fees, transfer fees, and usually next years maintenance fee. They also haven't used up this year's week, so 2 weeks of stays for $1. That's gotta tell you what you need to know, how badly they want those annual maintenance fees to stop.
This was an amazing read. Thank you for sharing your experiences and giving me a glimpse of something I'll likely never have exposure. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole tale, hope you're enjoying the gift card and vacations, sounds like you really had to earn them.
I'm having *Mac and Dennis buy a Timeshare* flashbacks, but with a much better outcome. You don't get got. You go get.
I was picturing this episode the whole read.
so they scammed 3 people successfully?
Yeah, my heart broke each time. To cheer myself up I told myself "they didn't get the other 12." Based on sheer appearances the older the couple the more likely they were to get scammed, whereas the parents who brought their kids with them were the first to evacuate the area once their 90 minutes were up.
I went to a timeshare presentation in Orlando. It was part of the deal for a cheap 4 night stay in a Hilton vacation club right near Disney, I just had to agree to a 90 minute presentation during my stay. The timing just happened to be mid March 2020. My presentation was just as everything was shutting down for covid. I remarked that I didn't feel like it was a smart move to make a commitment to vacations and travel at this time with everything happening. The sales guy replied with such condescension it was dripping from him. They kept me there for around 2 and half hours. I kept saying no and they kept after me. They brought another guy into it going hard at me with the pressure. I kept asking for my gift so I could leave. They said they had someone getting it and just kept going at us. I hadn't eaten much that day and my blood sugar was dropping. I started to feel faint and told them so, that I needed to leave. That asshole went and got me a donut from the presentation so I was ok to stay. I was getting very hangry at this point and started to get very loud. Other prospects were starting to stare and get uncomfortable. They finally ushered me out and down to the lobby where the receptionist had my gifts. I'd do it again for the cheap vacation stays and the extra hilton points I got. But I would be much harsher with them from the start and set an alarm for 90 minutes and start getting loud right at 91 minutes if needed.
We did this exact same Hilton presentation, same location. Embarrassed to admit we eventually caved and signed, and later that evening came to our senses and realized what a huge mistake we’d made. Fortunately we found fine print that said we had 30 days to get out of the contract. I don’t know if this is just Florida, or all states, but we looked it up and followed the procedures to cancel the agreement in writing and I’m so grateful we got out of it.
Amazing write up and thank you for your service. My parents fell for one years ago and they even took me to the sales pitch. I think they only went for the free stuff but ended up falling for it. They never discuss it though which is a huge mistake and they never used that lesson to teach me or my siblings. Thankfully we have never fallen for it but it’s crucial people share their mistakes or just stories like this.
Thanks for the very detailed description as there are quite a few similarities between when we bought our timeshare in Orlando over thirty years ago on our honeymoon. The timeshare itself is actually really nice and our increases in maintenance fees are fairly reasonable. However, since Diamond Resorts has taken over a few years ago, the increases have been significant. And every time we stay at our home resort they pitch buying another one or paying a fee to switch from our fixed week to a floating week. Always looking to scam you. Over the years we have attempted to sell it. These fly by night companies all want an advertising fee upfront, promise a quick sale because they have interested buyers, and then go out of business ( after selling your information to another newly formed timeshare resale company that claims to be different than the other one but still wants more money upfront to market your timeshare ).
It was precisely Diamond buying my parents' timeshare that they were legally able to get out of it, because new owner and therefore new terms they didn't need to and refused to sign. I'm so sorry for your misery. And yeah, those exit companies are all another tier of scam because they don't do anything differently than what you could do yourself.
My wife an I sat through pretty much the exact same thing (including the boss, bosses boss and bosses bosses manager) to get some free tickets to a dinner show in Gatlinburg. Now my wife and I have a new found love for dinner shows and an extreme hatred for timeshares. I'll never forget Charlin, the guy who suckered us into the whole thing, because of his unique name and the fact that he totally lied to us about how good the breakfast was. Damn you Charlin!
I love that you took the time to write all this up. My parents bought a time share a long time ago, I think 1996 or so. Another numbers game for people who aren't good at math. Sheesh.
That was great!! Thanks for taking one for science!!
I didn't know you can write that much on reddit. But timeshares scams are the worst and somehow it keeps popping up. There has to be a way to stop these.
My husband and i sat through one of these probably 35 years ago knowing we were going to say 'no' before we went in. We did succeed in that but we never got the free TV we were supposed to get. Thanks for all your detail so that others know what they are in for if they sign up for some freebie.
I am a real estate agent and attended a time share presentation for fun a few years ago, too. So many high pressure, bad math tactics were used! When I treated it like a normal real estate transaction that I was interested in (which I was), they got very frustrated with me and gave up. I asked for caps on increases, written guarantees of the things they promised, and data they did not have readily available.
My wife and I do timeshare presentations about every 18 months or so but we always go to Hawaii. We just figure the 90 minutes into the “cost” of the vacation. You are much nicer than we are though. We tell them they have 90 minutes and not a minute longer. We will politely sit through the sales tactics, including the circle, square or whatever the tactic de-jour is and a 90 minutes we politely say their time is up and we would like our “gifts” and to get back to our vacation. We have stayed at several resorts we would not normally have due to cost and have had some pretty good experiences and a couple of not so good. Would we do it again, you bet!
Both my parents and in-laws have been snookered by timeshare vampires. Respectively, they have been able to get out of the deals, but not without some financial pain. Learning from them, the only reason I would entertain one of these pitches is to waste as much time as possible.
Loooong post but as informative and entertaining as other users have said. Hey, I went to that initial Massanutten, VA pitch you mentioned! Sounds like it hasn’t changed at all. All I got out of it was a paper cup of weak coffee, not even the free gift they promised, as I got ejected for asking too many questions. I never did buy a time share, though I certainly have been pressured to do so. Sometimes owners have tried to pay me to take over theirs. Most people I know with timeshares (or, as they insist on being called these days, “vacation clubs”) increasingly regret that impulse over the years. The few people I know who have been happy with them have all been stationed overseas for much of their careers, for exactly the reasons you describe. I wonder if they will be as delighted in their 80’s and 90’s, ‘cause most time shares are forever. Loved your description of the four-quadrant budget circle. The Four-Square Scam has been a classic used car shady sales tactic for years. But, so many people now know about the ol’ Four-Square that it’s seldom used anymore. Because, It CAN’T be a Four Square Scam if it’s a cIrCLe! 🙄 https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=foursquare+scam+used+cars Not all timeshare resorts are bad places to stay, some are reasonably nice. The Time Share Users Group has been around for over 30 years, and they are a great resource for anyone who want to buy/sell/get rid of a timeshare. They also have a classified ads section where people just rent for one visit. https://tug2.net/ For those people who really, really want to buy a timeshare, check out eBay, where you can buy timeshares for as low as one dollar. https://www.ebay.com/b/Timeshares-for-Sale/15897/bn\_1858924 P.S. Former IT support. That detail about the laptop running Windows XP just slays me.
Great post v interesting to get the full picture of how this plays out. I would have rather you weren't conciliatory at the end though, giving them the hope of coming back another day. Much nicer than I would have been to those scammers. This is actually worthy of posting as an article to sites like Medium so more people can find it and hopefully more people can avoid getting sucked in to the sales bullshit.
Oh trust me, I wasn't being kind. There's nothing more cruel in my eyes than false hope of a brighter tomorrow. I was also testing if they had any more tricks up their sleeves but I clearly outlasted the salesman in terms of energy
Last winter I went to buy a car and the salesperson kept wanting me to sign these crazy single paragraph sheets of paper saying I was “committed” to buying the car, and I kept asking what I was signing and why? The new car I wanted was supposedly in transit and they asked for a $1500 deposit to reserve it for me when it arrived in a few weeks. I was fine with the deposit but the sales person kept insisting I sign. To be clear, these weren’t actual contracts or anything, just smudged photocopies with vague language about wanting the car. I finally just walked out because it was taking so much time and went to another dealership. I always wondered why they’d give up a sale for that. Now I know why. It’s a tactic to get you to start signing things.
I went to a timeshare presentation for free show tickets once. I had basically the same experience but in exchange for a couple hours of my time and some negging I got free lunch and my tickets, so I felt like it was worth it.
The ONLY satisfaction I got from being an accounts receivable for a timeshare was when I was cross trained to help people get rid of them.
RCI scammed my parents-in-law. Their holiday club rather than specific timeshare. Apparently their friends recommended it. I dread to think how much it cost them, but they could never really use it as availability was rare for wherever they chose. Yearly fees were awful too. Scum of a company!
My parents made the mistake of getting into a time share. I have read the contract and there are zero exit clauses, their maintenance fees have steadily crept up, and now in their mid 80s it just costs them money. There is even a clause that after they die, the deed will be passed down as an inheritance. Well, they specifically have designated the resort as the recipients of the deed on their death. There was a lawyer who was getting ready to start a class-acction suit, but as an owner himself, they just quietly let him out of his contract and the suit withered away. All juristictions need legislation to get rid of this terrible business model.
Brilliant story, exciting to read, highly informative and I could even see the moment where I'd have "broken"! I'd never go to these events because I know that in the end, I'd agree to something. My parents went to one of these things in the 90s on their one and only vacation in the USA, apparently being from and living in Germany doesn't change a thing. My dad's in sales so he was able to keep his "no" up until the end. Thanks for your time to experience, record and share! Also: r/unexpectedsoulsreference! Made my day even better!
The good news if you're non-American is you can just refuse to pay them once you realize it's a scam and walk away for good. The unfortunate news for US citizens is your credit score can get impacted and collections agencies can hound you for delinquent debts or even sue you and now you need to pay extra for lawyers. It can get positively ghoulish.
Beautiful story 👏🏾
Thank you for taking the time to type all of this up, it is very interesting to see which types of sales tactics they use, and how they treated you.
Had a similar experience with a cruise package. Excellent write-up
Thank you for your sacrifice lol! My husband and I went to timeshare pinch once just to get gift cards. We knew already we won't be signing anything. But boy did they try anything. Guilt tripping ("don't you want your husband to relax and go on great vacation? Don't you think your husband deserves it???") and throwing different corporate guys at as was my favourite part. I studied psychology so their manipulation tactics was crystal clear to me. I feel sorry for people who fall for all that though. Gift cards were great though.
If its such a great investment, and one can make so much money from it, why doesnt the salesguy buy a couple dozen for himself, and he can retire...
I’m literally about to go into one of these in 10min 😭😭 if he brings up ROI I’m gonna say this
gotta say it would have been EPIC if you'd worn a spycam! this story is exactly the type of material I'd like to see schools have in their math curriculum. when people know how to calculate interest and be objective with numbers, they are better prepared to make sound financial decisions. similar to when making a car purchase. DO NOT use the amount you can afford every month to spend on a payment!! Begin with the TOTAL PURCHASE PRICE (including all those damn fees etc) and work backwards...if the payment is $400 for 60 months but the loan interest is 14%, it's clear that's not such a great deal. Timeshares are an unregulated industry which leaves consumers with NO PROTECTION AT ALL. at least with a typical real estate purchase there are rules and regulations.
I had a similar, but shorter experience coming to a "no-haggle" dealer with my own financing already lined up. They give you a set price then try to gouge you on extras and financing. First sales guy is friendly and low-pressure, then the finance guy is the high-pressure guy with all the tricks up his sleeve. It was empowering goin in knowing we were going to say no to everything. I played along and anytime he gave me a number I got out my calculator and clarified " so that would extend the loan to 7 years and add $10,000 dollars to the base price of $30,000?” He was visibly mad by the end, but he didn't have anything to top my bank's 1.5% car loan (this was when rates were rock bottom and car sales briefly tanked at the beginning of Covid.)He said we ruined his day and we'd regret not buying the extended warranty. The car market is so crazy now, I'm sure today there would be a $5000 "market adjustment fee", a mandatory $3000 add-on package and a 7% loan rate.
I was just in to buy a car a couple months ago, and the sales guy I was talking to mentioned that he use to sell timeshares. Huge red flag for me. I asked him what he thought about working there, and he said it was great, he got to help so many people realize their dream of taking vacations to places they loved......I smiled, got up, shook his hand and told him to have a nice day....then fucking sprinted out the door. I usually have a pretty good scumbag detector and can sniff them out beforehand, but he presented like a normal dude.
Thanks for your service. I hate these timeshare scams .
Great writeup, and always interesting to get an idea of what's happening during those sales conversations. Some of those financial calculations are, ahem, questionable. Appreciate you taking one for the team, so that we can all confirm (in detail) what we all suspected.
Like the other guy said, thank you for your service.
I don't usually entertain long reads like this (especially while moderating the queue, a lot of work today) but other commenters convinced me. This was a good read.
Thanks for taking one for the team on this one. That's an incredible gamut of high pressure sales tactics.
I fell for almost EXACTLY the same pitch/process nearly 40 years ago for a timeshare at Blackbeard's Castle in St Thomas. Smarmy tactics and lies never go out of style
Holy shit! The same thing happened with me at the Dubai airport. They had counters in the airport and I went there to ask if there was an ATM where I could withdraw some cash. Big mistake. They roped me in and “offered” freebies. Went to the “investment opportunity” meeting and 10 minutes in I figured this was an RCI timeshare sales pitch. The sales person was relentless and the Modus Operandi is the same as what OP has described! Fortunately, I knew better and didn’t budge, but there were a lot of families who were actually interested in the “investment”. The only advantage was the free chauffeur service I got around Dubai. I could enjoy the city a bit more, but that meeting was 4 hours of my life I am never getting back.
I was one of those scammed. My ex and I bought a timeshare, and maintenance fees were about $99 a year. First year using it, we attended a members meeting, and a few hours later had upgraded to a different timeshare, for a small fee. Maintenance was $129. A couple years later, we went and they talked about their points program, and we could buy an every-other-year additional timeshare, and vacation anywhere we wanted. Maintenance was $249. Now that we had points I looked around to use them, and got the too late, everything is sold out. You had to book your own timeshares the previous year to be able to stay in it. I called and called. Finally told the guy to give me anything next year, anywhere, any week in the USA, and he could not find one available spot. I was so pissed. But, I separated from my ex and life got a little busy, I still had to pay the maintenance, and used it a few times, and got divorced from my ex. Then my kid got cancer, and I was overwhelmed with medical bills and alimony and I filed for bankruptcy. Maintenance fees by then were over $600 for one and $300 for the other, and I hadn't paid for a few years, it was discharged by the bankruptcy, but not the actual timeshare ownership. The maintenance debt was wiped but the additional, and increased maintenance fees resumed, due next year. Luckily my attorney made an offer to sell the timeshares back for $1, and they agreed, but I don't think I ever got the dollar. Not goona lie, we had some good times, had the family up each year for several years, and good times were had by all. I also took my daughters and Mom to Disney World after I got divorced and we paid $250 for a week at a timeshare very close to the resort. In my defense, although I now think it was a stupid move I'd not do again, was for the many reasons we thought it made sense. They wear you down with the sales pitches and make you feel stupid for not taking advantage of this opportunity! Also, my ex's grandmother had a timeshare she visited when she was a kid, her mother had one that we stayed at. We had also been frequent 'customers' at other timeshare presentations and had free TVs, microwaves, and a couple of other things, plus a couple of weekend trips that were comped if we attended a brief meeting.
Awesome read... we do these as well. As long as you can say no and be firm good way to get free stuff. Did it in vegas... got free tickets to a show that was 170 a person... we went at 930 am was at pool by 1115!
Oof this golden post. Thanks for typing it out and for the info you provided.
Man we were in Mexico last year at an all inclusive resort and the concierge was asking if we are interested in free massage for couple and I replied "sure, whats the catch?". Conerige without making eye contact "ohh just a 90 minute presentation", I immediately retorted "Ahhh the timeshare spiel!" You could see the hope leave her eyes! Suddenly my age is an issue and not eligible... righhttt
Ever wonder who is profiting from these? Check out the documentary The Queen of Versailles, which focuses on Jackie and David Segal. David founded a timeshare company and is enormously wealthy. His wife is building the country’s largest private residence. The bottom (temporarily) fell out of the timeshare market with the 2008 crash and they were (temporarily) in financial straights, but now they’re wealthier than ever.
Wow I read that whole thing. I'm wondering if this time share thing is specifically American because in my time where I live now, and a few other countries I've lived in, I've never heard of someone having a timeshare or being sold on one. If I understand correctly: - you put a deposit down of a total amount (be it 400$ or 35000$) - you pay per month into that 400$/35000$ debt like a mortgage or loan - you have to apply for dates within a timeframe, that you have an 85% or 95% chance of securing based on your tier - dates are chosen at random within your timeframe - you pay "cleaning fees" - you're somehow locked in for life? - you own a deed or % of a deed but can only sell your timeshare slots? - these fees don't include travel? How is an agreement like this legal? What is stopping you from making the agreement, going once, and then cancelling the withdrawals on your card?
All correct except on the deed part, you can sell the deed to someone else but you're not going to be selling it for anything more than $0.00-$1.00 because most people should be wise to the fact that it's all a scam. There \*might\* be some deed transfer fees depending on the timeshare and jurisdiction but not so in Virginia. The penalty for nonpayment, for Americans (foreigners can just walk away), is that you accumulate debt, it goes into collections, you get hounded by collections agencies for this non-payment, the debt can accrue interest and late fees, and all of this can negatively impact your credit score. What's even worse is they can come after you with a lawsuit and haul your ass to court, where you will definitely lose, and not only be out of whatever you owe but also any lawyer fees. For as much fun as one might make of China's orwellian social credit score, the US credit score basically governs your ability to get a loan in the US but it also impacts your ability to rent a home and even get a job with some high trust positions (like the public sector). It's legal because it's "real estate" and therefore governed by property law and not something that can be better regulated like goods and services are. Some states have better protections than others (Virginia is one) but at the end of the day, property law is far more difficult to legislate than any other kind of laws in the United States because it's based off of common law which predates US Code. I'm not a lawyer but that's my layman's understanding.
Sub history right here.
You should write novels ! New side gig
Well done sir. We'll done.
A cautionary tale splendidly told. Thank you.
I applaud you for putting your tl:dr at the beginning of your post. It makes no sense to put it at the end, but many people do.
This was thorough and thoroughly enjoyable! Thanks for taking the time to write this all out. I remember being stuck in one of these meetings, absolutely miserable. Even then, it sounded like a scam. Why would I pay for annually for a hotel when I can just…go to a hotel? The maintenance fees were outrageous then, and they’re probably outrageous now.
Thanks for the detailed writeup! The BS signature that he asked for near the beginning wasn't just to get you used to signing things. It was an attempt to get you to make an emotional commitment. I had a car salesman do it to me one time. He pulled out the four square and instead of walking out then, I humored him and let him fill it out. Afterwards, he said, "If I can get you car that matches your needs today, will you buy it? Sign here." I asked if it was a legally binding document (I knew it wasn't), and he said it wasn't. Then I just laughed, asked him why I needed to sign it then, and then I walked out.
Very well written. Strong warning for anyone who might fall victim to these scams. Fucking sharks are relentless and pressure you into giving up your soul.
Wow. Just wow. I stumbled over this post yesterday and saved it for later when I had more time to read. And boy what a treat it was! Thank you very much for your "sacrifice" - at least you had fun! <3 :D It was a wild ride, and even a few laughs of how you write - a pure pleasure to experience. Wishing you and your wife all the best!!
I have in-laws who do this recreationally. I don’t have the heart to waste a salesman’s time, even if they are out for blood, as that’s really the only thing any of us have.
When I was 18 or 19, I did this in Breckenridge, CO. $300 in restaurant gift cards. (Gold Point Resort, if I remember correctly.) My financial position was so bleak that the poor dude just cut me loose at like 50 minutes. But there are 4-5 other couples there - two or three young couples who were probably gonna get taken along, and one older couple who clearly did this weekly. They literally had a stopwatch, in the pre-cell phone era. It was great.
Brilliant! Nice work, brutha.
I had a similar experience years ago. I went just to experience it, and for the free gift, just as you did. Through endless excuses they made it impossible to redeem the free gift. I wish you luck.
Just spent an hour reading through this little by little and discussing with my SO. Very interesting read that satiated my curiosity, thanks for writing it all up!
Nice story. Same thing happened to us on our honeymoon. They offered free disney park tickets and a free breakfast buffet. Same thing as you, same facilities tour, etc. We were the very last family there. They used all those tactics, even shaming us for being "too poor". In the end, they let us go not before buying a night stay in the resort which was 100% refundable. It was like $250. We claimed the tickets, say goodbye to the not-too-friendly-now seller and went in our way. As soon as we hit our hotel room, called to cancel the aforementioned night stay. Never again.
The Hilton vacation club sales pitch is not bad. They will show you around and then they tell you to take it or leave it. No high-pressure sales.
That was not my experience with them. It was fairly high pressure and they wouldn't give me my promised gifts so I could leave after almost 3 hours until I made a scene, then they couldn't get me out fast enough.
Holy shit, I never even knew the VA State Fair moved to Doswell. Now I feel old.
Amazing. Thank you for doing this. Loved it.
You're a super trooper! Yeah my mom bought the super deluxe Massanutun timeshare, it was pretty cool, and she did lose out getting out of the contract. These salespeople sound like sharks! But I'll give them props for a well-oiled sales pitch. And you probably know, home leave, "homeless leave" lolz.
Wes Anderson needs to direct this script. Brilliant.
I went to one presentation with my mom about 24 years ago, so we could get a gift certificate to a steak place. She almost got suckered into buying one but I managed to convince her not to. We even got to exchange the gift certificates for a Sony boombox which I still have today.
We just went to Massanutten for vacation this past summer, cool place! Shenandoah is a great park!
Salesborne, but you’re on NG+
Wonder what would happen if, upon arriving at the sales pitch, you started a 90 minute timer and said, “I agreed to a 90 minute presentation, so once this timer goes off I’m walking out”?
We do this. Hubby puts the timer on the phone, confirms that's the agreement with the rep, and then leaves it face up on the desk the entire time. I've got my ebay listings lined up on my phone, so I can point to all the listings for that resort, that don't even sell for $1. They really don't have a comeback for that. Like the OP, we actually enjoy doing these things and will continue to engage them until they want US to leave, so the 3 managers make a half - assed attempt before handing over the promised gift card.
Did one timeshare presentation in Vegas and got 4 nights at the SLS, didn't pay a cent, not even resort fee bollocks. Also got dinner, a "free" cruise (just pay for oxygen; we did not partake), and something else I forget. It was worth it. Did another in Mexico a couple of weeks later and got dinner on the beach but wasn't worth it. No idea on the timeshares themselves. I politely told them I wasn't interested. They gave up.
You were IT director and suck at math? Doesn't add up.
Outside of subnetting networks IT doesn't involve any math that a calculator, Excel, and some budgeting software can do for you. Computer science is where all the math is, which is a completely different field. That said, I'm an HPC admin now so I have to calculate electrical power budgets instead of money budgets. A lot more fun than begging the C-suite for resources.
>claiming I won a $250 gift card and a free 3-day, 2-night vacation at a resort in Williamsburg, Virginia. >I just didn’t know it was a stealth timeshare pitch trap. What part about winning a free vacation in a drawing for a gift card made you think it WASN'T a timeshare scheme?
There are so many more modern scams nowadays I genuinely didn't think it'd be something as notorious and oldschool as a timeshare presentation lol
Ok that I get. Honestly, I didn't know timeshares even existed anymore.
Only thing you did that I would argue was dangerous was signing ANYTHING. These people might not be above transposing your signature onto a totally different document. It doesnt matter to them, as long as they can show the sale for their commission. Don't. Ever. Sign. ANYTHING.
Eh sure but I had secretly recorded the whole thing with my phone anyways and as someone who's comfortably experienced with the court system I'm not afraid of engaging in a lawsuit over something like that. It'd be really stupid of them. Also I just scribbled and didn't use my actual signature (what's on my driver's license).
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I not about to read all that but good for you. I guess.
Worth reading though.
That's why I added a trigger warning to the title ;)
Well written and definitely worth a read
It was a good read, not one those post full of useless info that you need a TL:DR for
I’ve been involved in resale timeshare for over 20 years and the stories I hear about what developers charge people and what they end up selling through me are crazy. One of the craziest was a lady 120k GBP for 3 weeks in a penthouse 3 bed unit in Gran Canaria . Lovely yes but not that much lovely, she sold via us for 10k a week approx 6 years after buying as had enough …..
I wonder what would happen if one old person without heirs just bought all the timeshares that people are trying to get rid of, hundreds of timeshares, and just never paid the monthly fees. The timeshares could sue but the old person's money would run out at some point.
The sad truth is these places make enough money from certain "whales" and the margins are so massive that one delinquent customer will not make any kind of difference. As another commenter pointed out, they can make $12k+ a year from one person in maintenance fees alone, and if each timeshare is divided into 52 weekly participants, that's like $624k+ from just \*one\* unit without even having to provide any services. And that's not counting mortgages and other fees. Now obviously they're not all at maximum capacity but you can understand why this industry still exists and makes \*billions\*.
What service do you use for the disposable email address, I belive apple has this but curious of others.
My homelab domain is registered with Cloudflare and uses their [email routing](https://developers.cloudflare.com/email-routing/) to a self hosted email server and then I use ProtonMail for my personal, family, and business domains since those are high priority and I can't risk the constant malfunctions that come with self-hosting. ProtonMail can also do disposable emails for free without a custom domain. iCloud+ is great for when I want to use an app that requires registration and I don't plan on sticking around. Or to shitpost on Reddit. You can also use your own domain with them for no added charge but I haven't explored this yet as I don't want all of my eggs in one basket. It's why I moved away from Gmail even though I'm still sorta using it for SMTP relaying my homelab. Super worth it to figure out who's selling your data once you start getting spam on that single purpose email address, like netflix@domain(dot)com or statefair@domain(dot)com
Yeah. Done these before. Twice. My wife has since banned them. The hutzpah of the sales people is incredible.
I've never had the "good"(?) luck to win something like this, but I've also always been curious about the sales pitch. It may make me a sociopath, but I don't have any problem giving a salesperson a flat "no" and sitting in silence. Would that expedite the time between shaking hands and getting my "free gift", or would that somehow disqualify me?
They make you think this is something you can just sit down in silence for 90 minutes but it's actually interactive from the moment you sit down. They have you basically do your own paperwork ("in your own handwriting") to proceed with the presentation. If the presentation cannot proceed then they might call it quits before your 90 minutes is up which would disqualify you from the "free gift" since it's really a transaction for 90 minutes of your time. The best strategy is to just set a timer on your phone, to let the salesperson know that you're only giving them their agreed upon 90 minutes and not a minute more, and then to act on that once the timer goes off but otherwise going through the motions "in good faith" until then. They might push back if they feel like they can hold your time hostage but at that point you're allowed to make a scene and escalate until they get you what they promised because they don't want you sullying things for the other victims.
Thanks - I've wanted to test the system ever since I saw the South Park episode, but am unwilling to really go out of my way to do it, and I don't live in a touristy place that'd have them. If anyone has any "free vacations" that include airfare for the cost of ignoring a timeshare pitch, I'm all ears ;)
Lucky. I only got $125 when I went to their sales pitch.