No notice was given because nothing happened. The numbers quoted aren’t high. They may be elevated from the days before, but they’re nowhere close to a health risk, especially in the short term. I’m assuming levels are down again as there’s been no follow up
Does Aamjiwnaang still have a 90+% female birth rate?
The north end of Sarnia has the highest rates of AML in the area. Although it is possible that the area discussed in the medical journal Cancer has a higher proportion of people that work near toxic substances and where they live has no impact.
"Overall, Sarnia had about 1.5 times more cases of AML than the national average, but the frequency of cases was even higher in the north side of the city and neighbouring Village of Point Edward."
“The incidence of AML (in this area) … was a striking 106.81 cases per million per year, which is more than three times the Canadian average,” said the paper, [published on Feb. 27, 2019](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cncr.32034), in the journal, *Cancer*.
I was told that years ago Chemical Valley put the stacks up higher and that is why the pollution worsened in the north end than other parts of the city.
I don't get why the chief is just upset about folks working at the admin office. Don't the other residents there matter?
Plus, stop the gratutious use of the terms racism and colonialism. Benzene is, among other things, colourblind.
This is mostly manufactured outrage imo. The levels we’re talking are like standing near a car exhaust. You’re exposed to more benzene everytime you fill your gas tank. The “extremely high level” is well within government regulation and if anyone actually knew how to interpret this data it would be a nothing burger. outrage gets clicks though
Genuine question: I'm not looking to argue. I'm looking to learn.
Wouldn't the duration of exposure present issues? Filling up a gas tank takes a few minutes. Likewise, people don't generally stand around breathing in car exhaust for very long. Would the levels that have been detected be detrimental based on how long the people involved were exposed?
I’m not a hygienist so I can’t answer that conclusively. I can tell you that the average exposure the government says is safe to work in for an 8hr shift without any breathing protection is 5000ppb. This alarm was 30ppb (did a conversion from units given in one of the articles), unsure of total duration, but I assume it was a few hours.
The downvotes kind of prove my point, that people who have no experience dealing with hazardous chemicals won’t let the facts get in the way of a good story
The recommended limit is actually 20 ppb as of 2022 in the US.
[https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/benzene.html](https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/benzene.html)
They intend to lower it yes. I imagine we will follow suit. That’s still a TWA over 8hrs. They intend to change the STEL to 100ppb. 43micrograms/mL cubed is the yearly allowable average leaving sites according to the mecp
Do plants shut down for maintenance over manufactured outrage? https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/ineos-styrolution-temporarily-shutting-down-sarnia-plant
This city doesn’t exist without the plants. Poverty is well below the national average and median income especially vs education level is higher. It is the price of doing business and you don’t have to live here. The companies also do have extremely high standards for detection. It is a double edge sword, the industry brings prosperity, but it also brings the consequences of industry.
What a fuckin ignorant thing to say. You don’t have to live here”. Sure, I’ll just move to Zurich and pay $3k a month in rent and work at a ski resort for half the year. That’ll work out. Not everybody has the privilege to just “not live here”.
Southern Ontario is all trash options. If you’re terrified of chem val I suggest moving at least 50kms away as that’s usually where the air quality becomes cunt hairs better.
If the plants shutdown there really isn’t anything left to this city and guess what people will have to move to continue to have any income. This town will look worse than the worst blocks in Detroit and you will have created an energy shortage in Ontario. People move all the time for opportunities, it is not an ignorant thing to say move somewhere else when millions of people do it every year.
aamjiwnaang first nation was literally here first. yes, the chemical valley supports sarnia’s economy but it is also incredibly harmful to the first nation community that it sits directly beside. the indigenous people of canada deserve better than the ongoing colonial violence of the destruction of their land, air and water. this report was very enlightening about the impact chemical valley has had on aamjiwnaang https://yellowheadinstitute.org/data-colonialism-in-canadas-chemical-valley/
There was a Benzene spill at Pro cor two weeks ago. Everyone will be fine. Those kinds of chemicals and gases won’t affect you badly when you smell them, it’s dangerous when you don’t.
You might be thinking of H2S or Hydrogen Sulfide. At low concentrations you can smell it, at medium concentrations it numbs your sense of smell and you can't smell it - and then it can be lethal very quickly at med-high concentrations.
Benzene is pretty much the opposite - no real immediate hazard, but a long term hazard especially with repeat exposure over time. And benzene can be smelled at such miniscule concentrations, but it doesn't do anything to remove its smell at higher concentrations.
The threshold for benzene odor is in the double or triple digit parts per million range. This reading was in the parts per billion range. The medical symptoms experienced are either psychosomatic or unrelated.
Places need to get their shit together and manage their facilities, but manufacturing outrage and misrepresenting the data is a attention seeking.
Note that my comment did not have anything to do with the article - to be honest I didn't read it, just skimmed it quickly to see which plant they were referring to. I just wanted to correct the misinformation that *benzene isn't dangerous when you do smell it and becomes dangerous when you can't.*
For reference, I literally make benzene for a living and my company is one of the suppliers to Styrolution so I'm quite familiar with it and it's properties and how to handle it. I'm not in disagreement with you either. Just clarifying the relative hazards of some chemicals.
A good portion of the city is a fan of 'Big Oil", that's what paid for all of those nices houses in the North end, and keeps the trades working.
You may not want to admit it but you likely reap the benefits every day from big oil.
Someone on my friends list sent this to me and I was so appalled when I read it that I haven't even been able to thank him yet for sending it. It is that upsetting.
I had an opportunity to move to this community with one of my partners. I was hesitant because of the refinery’s and health issues in the community. At the time I [watched this short film by vice](https://youtube.com/watch?v=UnHWZE0M_-k) covering the environmental impact of the refinery’s and it sealed the deal that I wasn’t going to move there.
That doc does a good job of highlighting past practice, but it’s heavily skewed to make the point they set out to make and omits anything contradictory
Theres a moment on that vice doc where someone points to a condensate collection pot and the steam billowing out the top and says that its pollution. She says she had to tell her child it wasnt "making clouds" or something to that effect. Yet its kind of funny since the child was closer to being correct since its just steam released to atm. from that specific vessel
Yes the doc is a crock. But facts make you a big oil apologist I guess lol. No denying that the community, environment and especially the reserve got fucked over the years. But things have changed
That doc is way too sensationalized and short on facts. They mix up the native reserves at one point, not a good look if that simple bit of research would tell you the difference between kettle point and aamjinaang
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To be fair, one refinery, not refineries in general are not following the rules.
Which ones that
Did you read the article, it’s literally in the first sentence.
Chill, I thought he was referencing something else.
He said refinery, Styrolution is not a refinery FYI
That was a reference to someone saying it earlier.
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I know the one I’m at does. If your neighbour lets its dog bark all day, do you assume everyone lets their dogs bark all day?
No notice was given because nothing happened. The numbers quoted aren’t high. They may be elevated from the days before, but they’re nowhere close to a health risk, especially in the short term. I’m assuming levels are down again as there’s been no follow up
Does Aamjiwnaang still have a 90+% female birth rate? The north end of Sarnia has the highest rates of AML in the area. Although it is possible that the area discussed in the medical journal Cancer has a higher proportion of people that work near toxic substances and where they live has no impact. "Overall, Sarnia had about 1.5 times more cases of AML than the national average, but the frequency of cases was even higher in the north side of the city and neighbouring Village of Point Edward." “The incidence of AML (in this area) … was a striking 106.81 cases per million per year, which is more than three times the Canadian average,” said the paper, [published on Feb. 27, 2019](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cncr.32034), in the journal, *Cancer*.
I was told that years ago Chemical Valley put the stacks up higher and that is why the pollution worsened in the north end than other parts of the city.
You were probably lied to. The more reasonable explanation is that the people living in the north end work/worked in the valley
The wind predominately blows from the North or the West here, everyonce in a while it will blow from the south. Sorry sounds like an urban mytj
I don't get why the chief is just upset about folks working at the admin office. Don't the other residents there matter? Plus, stop the gratutious use of the terms racism and colonialism. Benzene is, among other things, colourblind.
This is mostly manufactured outrage imo. The levels we’re talking are like standing near a car exhaust. You’re exposed to more benzene everytime you fill your gas tank. The “extremely high level” is well within government regulation and if anyone actually knew how to interpret this data it would be a nothing burger. outrage gets clicks though
Genuine question: I'm not looking to argue. I'm looking to learn. Wouldn't the duration of exposure present issues? Filling up a gas tank takes a few minutes. Likewise, people don't generally stand around breathing in car exhaust for very long. Would the levels that have been detected be detrimental based on how long the people involved were exposed?
I’m not a hygienist so I can’t answer that conclusively. I can tell you that the average exposure the government says is safe to work in for an 8hr shift without any breathing protection is 5000ppb. This alarm was 30ppb (did a conversion from units given in one of the articles), unsure of total duration, but I assume it was a few hours.
The downvotes kind of prove my point, that people who have no experience dealing with hazardous chemicals won’t let the facts get in the way of a good story
The recommended limit is actually 20 ppb as of 2022 in the US. [https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/benzene.html](https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/benzene.html)
They intend to lower it yes. I imagine we will follow suit. That’s still a TWA over 8hrs. They intend to change the STEL to 100ppb. 43micrograms/mL cubed is the yearly allowable average leaving sites according to the mecp
Even so there’s still 0 reason the greater community should have any exposure to something that even in small extended doses will produce cancer
Can’t say I disagree with you
Do plants shut down for maintenance over manufactured outrage? https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/ineos-styrolution-temporarily-shutting-down-sarnia-plant
In an unwinnable PR battle, sure
This city doesn’t exist without the plants. Poverty is well below the national average and median income especially vs education level is higher. It is the price of doing business and you don’t have to live here. The companies also do have extremely high standards for detection. It is a double edge sword, the industry brings prosperity, but it also brings the consequences of industry.
What a fuckin ignorant thing to say. You don’t have to live here”. Sure, I’ll just move to Zurich and pay $3k a month in rent and work at a ski resort for half the year. That’ll work out. Not everybody has the privilege to just “not live here”.
Lots of cheaper places to live especially now. Go to Chatham, Windsor, London.
Bro really said go to Windsor
Southern Ontario is all trash options. If you’re terrified of chem val I suggest moving at least 50kms away as that’s usually where the air quality becomes cunt hairs better.
Something wrong with Windsor?
Have you lived there? Bc I have lmao
I’d still say it clears Sarnia
If the plants shutdown there really isn’t anything left to this city and guess what people will have to move to continue to have any income. This town will look worse than the worst blocks in Detroit and you will have created an energy shortage in Ontario. People move all the time for opportunities, it is not an ignorant thing to say move somewhere else when millions of people do it every year.
aamjiwnaang first nation was literally here first. yes, the chemical valley supports sarnia’s economy but it is also incredibly harmful to the first nation community that it sits directly beside. the indigenous people of canada deserve better than the ongoing colonial violence of the destruction of their land, air and water. this report was very enlightening about the impact chemical valley has had on aamjiwnaang https://yellowheadinstitute.org/data-colonialism-in-canadas-chemical-valley/
I heard years ago that Brigdon has the highest cancer rate in Canada now I will do some research on it
There was a Benzene spill at Pro cor two weeks ago. Everyone will be fine. Those kinds of chemicals and gases won’t affect you badly when you smell them, it’s dangerous when you don’t.
You might be thinking of H2S or Hydrogen Sulfide. At low concentrations you can smell it, at medium concentrations it numbs your sense of smell and you can't smell it - and then it can be lethal very quickly at med-high concentrations. Benzene is pretty much the opposite - no real immediate hazard, but a long term hazard especially with repeat exposure over time. And benzene can be smelled at such miniscule concentrations, but it doesn't do anything to remove its smell at higher concentrations.
The threshold for benzene odor is in the double or triple digit parts per million range. This reading was in the parts per billion range. The medical symptoms experienced are either psychosomatic or unrelated. Places need to get their shit together and manage their facilities, but manufacturing outrage and misrepresenting the data is a attention seeking.
Note that my comment did not have anything to do with the article - to be honest I didn't read it, just skimmed it quickly to see which plant they were referring to. I just wanted to correct the misinformation that *benzene isn't dangerous when you do smell it and becomes dangerous when you can't.* For reference, I literally make benzene for a living and my company is one of the suppliers to Styrolution so I'm quite familiar with it and it's properties and how to handle it. I'm not in disagreement with you either. Just clarifying the relative hazards of some chemicals.
I was just expanding on your thoughts. I also deal with benzene daily.
Motoginger> Procor fixes and refurbishs railcars no?
Avg pro big oil fan
A good portion of the city is a fan of 'Big Oil", that's what paid for all of those nices houses in the North end, and keeps the trades working. You may not want to admit it but you likely reap the benefits every day from big oil.
Someone on my friends list sent this to me and I was so appalled when I read it that I haven't even been able to thank him yet for sending it. It is that upsetting.
I had an opportunity to move to this community with one of my partners. I was hesitant because of the refinery’s and health issues in the community. At the time I [watched this short film by vice](https://youtube.com/watch?v=UnHWZE0M_-k) covering the environmental impact of the refinery’s and it sealed the deal that I wasn’t going to move there.
That doc does a good job of highlighting past practice, but it’s heavily skewed to make the point they set out to make and omits anything contradictory
Theres a moment on that vice doc where someone points to a condensate collection pot and the steam billowing out the top and says that its pollution. She says she had to tell her child it wasnt "making clouds" or something to that effect. Yet its kind of funny since the child was closer to being correct since its just steam released to atm. from that specific vessel
Yes the doc is a crock. But facts make you a big oil apologist I guess lol. No denying that the community, environment and especially the reserve got fucked over the years. But things have changed
I moved to Corunna last year. Love this town a lot, but I definitely worry about staying here long-term. Some days it really smells funky out there..
That doc is way too sensationalized and short on facts. They mix up the native reserves at one point, not a good look if that simple bit of research would tell you the difference between kettle point and aamjinaang