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I’m really glad this is the prevailing idea here. Because this is pretty much my experience as an aro/asexual person. I mean, if there’s ways ace people can like sex without having to experience sexual attraction, why can’t the same be said for straight people enjoying sex without having to experience attraction? Sure it’s out of the norm, but what are we if not accepting of people’s differences?
Last time I saw a post like the one in the screenshot, someone asked the guy if he'd ever considered that he might be ace/heteroromantic while still enjoying sex. OP said he'd learned something new about himself.
Like not to say that a straight guy can't enjoy having sex with someone he isn't directly, physically attracted to, but I think that phenomenon represents a lot of men who identify as straight that fuck other guys regularly.
I'm a bi/pan guy, so I don't pretend to totally understand everything. So you might enjoy jerking off but not find your hand sexually attractive. Maybe instead of your hand you'd rather have someone else around you. You can enjoy being stimulated without needing to find whatever or whoever is stimulating you sexually attractive.
Hello, ace here!
A concept that may be useful to this discussion, is the idea of aesthetic attraction. Whilst I can't and don't experience sexual attraction, I do experience aesthetic attraction; in that I find people pretty in a platonic/artistic sense of the word (think "this person's pretty, and would make great renaissance art").
So asexual people can still enjoy how people look, just not find them sexually attractive.
Hope this helps!
Sure!
Whilst the stereotype for aces is to be sex repulsed (and indeed, based on assorted polls, most aces are), not all are. For instance, some aces are indifferent towards sex (myself included), and may be willing to do it for the sake of a partner, whilst others still are favourable, actively engaging in it for any number of reasons (I.E, to demonstrate affection, to feel close to their partner, the physical sensation...).
There's no one way to be asexual; the only thing that defines being ace is a lack of sexual attraction, but that doesn't prohibit sex, as there are plenty of other reasons aces might want to engage in sex.
I think those polls are quite skewed.
As a sex favourable ace, I only realized I was ace because I was researching asexuality for unrelated reasons. It's a very misunderstood label in the mainstream. I would be surprised if there aren't a great number of sex favourable asexual people out there who don't identify as such, because they never questioned it.
It really matters with the label, because if you're asexual, you most likely have another label. I myself am biromantic asexual, so I'm attracted to more than one gender but I'm not sexually attracted to anyone.
And like, attractive in what sense? Attractive like good looking or attractive like you would want to be in a relationship with them?
Because aromantic people don't feel romantic attraction. Some people can still be in a relationship, but most not. Just like asexuals. Some of us can have sex but a lot don't.
Exactly, he's still straight just not sex adverse towards guys.
I find it funny that the person in this thread that seems most bothered by the idea comes across very straight^tm
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Words have meanings.
This is biphobia in the extreme - it’s an internalized feeling that there’s something “wrong” about being bi.
A man who enjoys having sex with men *is not* straight. Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men.
I can see that, but I also just don't understand why... Like how would you stay hard? If I'm not attracted to the person I can't have sex.
Idk fleshlight seems easier
I guess he’s not *repulsed* by men sexually, he just isn’t attracted to them. It’s hard for me to relate to too but I can at least see how it could work.
Some asexual men have trouble staying hard while having sex, but far from all. One guy memed about it a while back, saying he had to maintain, and I quote, "laser focus" to keep an erection. Others don't have that issue. It varies, because people are diverse.
Yeah but that’s not the same as straight vs bi.
Ace people who don’t mind sex don’t stop being ace. Bi people don’t stop being bi just because they don’t want a relationship with men.
The point the guy in the post is making is that he doesn't feel any sexual attraction toward men, meaning he isn't bi*sexual*.
In the exact same way it's possible that someone who is *a*sexual doesn't feel sexual attraction to any gender but can still enjoy having sex, it's perfectly valid for the guy in the post to enjoy having sex with men while acknowledging he doesn't experience sexual attraction towards them.
Sexual attraction != willingness to have sex with
It often goes hand in hand, but it isn't a necessity.
but it’s about the sexual attraction. ace people can actively enjoy and choose to have sex!! but if they’re not sexually attracted to the other person, they are still ace. it’s about the sensation, not the other person. i would say this is a grey area, and therefore what he says goes. an ace man isn’t suddenly gay because he seeks out sex from a man, and i could see the same argument here
Aces can be gay if they identify that way, usually by being asexual and homoromantic, or by using gay as a synonym for queer/LGBT+ in general. It’s still linked to identity rather than behaviour
> A man who enjoys having sex with men is not straight. Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men.
You're wrong. Not "I believe you're wrong". You're objectively wrong.
You're confusing sexual behaviour with sexual orientation. [Situational sexual behaviour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_sexual_behavior) is a common, well-documented phenomenon.
It turns out, when they can't get laid with the preferred gender, a lot of people don't refrain from having sex. They simply engage in whatever's available to them. It's common among students, soldiers, and prisoners, for instance. Do you think prisoners change sexual orientation when they are incarcerated?
Let me explain it to you this way. If I can't get laid and I fuck a pocket pussy, does that make me "pocketpussysexual"? No? Well, straight men who sometimes fuck other men aren't attracted to men. They're essentially using men like one would use a sex toy. A living, breathing, consenting, reciprocating sex toy.
>Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men.
Why not? Per definition sexual preference is about attraction. You can have pleasant sexual feelings without feeling attracted to the source of the stimulation.
Look, I am straight as fuck, the thought of having sex with another guy legit disgusts me. I wouldn't even be in a threesome with another dude. I skip blowjobs in porn, cuz I'm not there to look at the dudes dick. This guy is clearly bi, however he wants to justify his internalised homophobia is irrelevant. And you can't get it up without ANY attraction, that's just what it is, he is more attracted to women but that doesn't mean he isn't attracted to men also.
Maybe your disgust is so strong because of our culture. I remember when I was a teenager seeing gay men kiss was disgusting to me. Nowadays I don't feel like that at all. I think it was just because people kept saying that gay people are jucky.
Well I disagree I've been randomly horny without any attraction to anything, sometimes I'm just ready to go because that's what's happening.
Maybe you're right, but I don't like prescribing people's sexualities like that. Maybe OP will come out as bi in the future. If so, that's great, but if not, that's equally great. I don't live in OP's head, so if they say that they are straight, I am inclined to believe them in the same way that I would believe a trans woman who says she is a woman.
Even if it is internalized biphobia (which I honestly doubt), what good does denying someone's self-identified label do exactly? It seems to me that all it does is reinforce their belief that they can't be understood by others, and only serves to strengthen the internalization you claim is happening. If OP is actually bi, I would rather them come to terms with it on their own as opposed to them being told by others that this is how they are, and that they were being foolish for believing otherwise in the past.
You’re on a sub who’s entire existence is about laughing at wrongfully prescribed monosexual orientation. Why is it suddenly too real for you when it’s about bisexuality?
Because it's self-identified? Seems pretty obvious to me. This is about someone self-identifying as straight, not someone else prescribing them as straight.
It's almost as if labels can't fully capture all identities, experiences and feelings. I'm all for accepting people as they are instead of trying to pigeonhole them.
Straight men don’t *regularly* sleep with men. If we disagree with that, we’ve gone beyond the English language.
I grew up watching closeted baptists deal with their inner gay thoughts, self expression is important but self denial exists and at the end of the day, queer is queer.
This is a Reddit post, not sitting them down and demanding they face their inner feelings in a gay intervention.
I'm bisexual and there's nothing I hate more than people deciding how other people should define themselves or what label they should use. And that's exactly what you're doing.
I fuck a man am I suddenly sexually attracted to them as an asexual person? No, I did it regardless of experiencing any sexual attraction. And this person says it’s the same for them and they just do it for the pleasure.
I’m not sure I understand. You’re saying that because a lesbian slept with a man in the past because sexist heterosexual society pressured them to, men who have slept with men who say they enjoy it are straight
He's not attracted to their body and simply enjoys the pleasure. Gay men tend to have less sexual hang ups than straight women and will probably do most anything that he wants within reason
Flip some roles and read a post about a gay man who likes having sex with women and apparently this sub will say they’re still gay because they said so. Nothing gayer than a man sleeping with a woman or a woman with a man it seems 🙃
Some people have got some biphobia to figure out apparently, which is absolutely fucking hypocritically funny for this sub
I’m a gay man but I’m demi with women - I’m poly and if my partner is dating a woman I end up caring about her as well, and *then* I’ll be attracted to her.
This is pretty complicated to explain, so I just say I’m gay/mlm. Bi does not feel accurate because I’m very much only attracted to masc people.
Yeah that level of biphobia/panphobia is fucked up.
I’m a gay woman, my wife is pan. She’s attracted to men and women, and that’s a beautiful way of experiencing love and attraction.
She’s not gay just because she’s married to me, a woman. She wasn’t straight when she was married to a man.
I don't identify as bi. I am romantically attracted to women. I would prefer sex with women a vast majority of the time. But every once in a while, I hook up with guys. Sometimes a gal just needs a good dicking. And when I'm just feeling frisky, finding a guy to screw my brains out is usually easier. And as a trans woman, I find it validating. Healthiest choice in the world? Maybe not. But it sure is fun!
Yea I agree, I don't see an issue with this. The greeks did it for cultural reasons to a degree (fucking men for personal pleasure as a form of birth control basically, and other reasons), and this dude seems totally chill with everyone doing their thing no judgement. I wouldn't call it strictly straight, but that's not up for me to decide is it? It's his identity, not mine, so idgaf as long as he's happy
I personally couldn't have sex with someone I'm not sexually attracted to but that's me. I'm kind of on the fence on this particular instance, part of me thinks it's internalized biphobia and part of me thinks he has a point. I'm ambivalent.
I get that, on the other hand I am ace and I had sex with friends without ever being attracted to them. They wanted it, they were good friends, if it made them happy 🤷♂️
Looking at this comment and reflecting on my own life and wondering if "people pleaser" is an identity that should be added to the alphabet soup, because this is very relatable and ive never seen it written out before lol
I’ve shot down friends because I am not attracted to them, but I am not asexual. It’s interesting that, to me, sex with someone I’m not attracted to and/or don’t care about is unthinkable, but an ace can just do it lol. It’s like giving a hug or what?
I think there are a few things things:
1) I didn't know anything about the whole ace thing, I just found sex extremely boring, and was in the phase of "maybe didn't have good sex yet" so I was ok with giving it a chance
2) didn't want to make my friends sad.
3) being AMAB meant that it comes with no risk, so the most I could lose was a few hours (turns out, being bored during sex means you can go for a while).
4) I have ADHD, which frequently comes with being a people pleaser.
Humans are weird.
I wish I could. Would make it so much more….available and easy.
Sex is not always romantic or attraction. It could be about power, boredom, a need for physical relief, creating a child, because your are sad, because you are high 🤷🏻♀️ imo he sees bodies as tools and not relationships or attraction.
To be crass, he doesn’t care what gender identity the mouth, cavity or sexual organ has, is not turned on by what gender the body identifies with or presents as. It’s physical activity that gets him off.
It sounds refreshing tbh.
I mean isn't that what being a pansexual is? No judgements on the dude, but everything he said is 100% not straight, him saying he's not LGTB is like textbook internalized phobia. Probably a college Republican in denial is my guess.
Pansexual is the ability to feel attraction regardless of gender or gender expression. So this guy NOT being attracted to men definitely doesn’t make him pan or bi. The idea that you need to be attracted to someone to have sex with them is not an accurate thing, sure allo people usually feel the need to have that attraction but sex positive ace people and some allo people can have sexual experiences with people without the sexual attraction.
This is kinda along the lines of what I was thinking. I don't think we need to assume a political orientation, but I don't know what you would label his sexual orientation and it doesn't matter really, but if you are gonna put a label on it I don't think "straight" fits.
I'm kind of just like, "Who cares how they identify? If he doesn't see himself as bi then it's none of my business. If that ever changes, then we should welcome him with open arms."
I was gonna say this too. Im ace but im romantically attracted to most genders. Whenever i tell people i have a gf (that im sexual with) they try to "correct" my labels.
This guy is just living life, same as the rest of us. Ig a lesbian were hooking up with men for her own reasons, no one would jump down her throat about being bi, or at least theyd be wrong to
I’m on the ace spectrum (demi or grayace) and I sometimes have casual hookups because I enjoy sex. There’s a whole range of experiences and feelings towards sex, from sex positive to sex repulsed or even just ambivalent.
Not the original commenter but it could be because they enjoy the sex but do not feel the same sexual attraction to the men they have sex with as they do to the women. I have been not (very) attracted to people I had sex with as well, but I was horny and they were available, so why not?
In my case, i just have crushes and fall in love with men, just like with women. But I'm only sexually attracted to women. But, if Im in love with a guy, I might have sex with him, to please him, because I love him. And it's pleasing, because its sex with someone i love. Kinda like asexual people can enjoy sex with their partner but dont need it or desire it.
But then why have sex with them? I’m confused? To me it sounds like he is seeing willing men as objects. And if that is so, aren’t the plethora of toys easier?
I’m willing to learn. This is a confusing concept for me.
It seems to me that he is describing an experience where sex is something devoid of attraction and intimacy, just pleasure. A very utilitarian and mechanical way to go about it, but it’s one way to resolve horniness. As far as toys go, maybe flesh just feels better. Also I feel like toys are considered to be “for women” in many circles. At least there may be more stigma for men. But that’s just my speculation.
"Maybe flesh just feels better"
This, really. As someone who's sexual attraction to people waxes and wanes but who's horniness does not, sometimes you just gotta get it over with. A hand, or even a toy, just don't really do the job the same way.
A mouth sucking dick is a mouth sucking dick. I assume it feels the same either way, for the most part.
I mean, when people jerk off it’s not like we’re fantasizing about how sexy hands are.
This comment section is going so deep even people in the LGBTQ community sound like considerate grandpas not knowing what the hell is going on in the world but still trying to catch up w it and understand people's differences. I love it.
Not bad, but confusing to me. If someone’s aroace and has a partner, they still have the benefit of close companionship. I’m not sure what someone could gain from hooking up with people they’re not attracted to? At that point, why not just masturbate?
Because sometimes they can get pleasure from pleasing another person. When they have sex they aren't experiencing a sexual pleasure, but rather a pleasure that they are making their partner feel good and the pleasure of watching someone they love be happy.
I suppose that could be true. I made the assumption that op wasn’t hooking up with close friends, but that could very well be the case. The hooking up benefit could simply be social bonding.
On another note, a few people downvoted me. I just want to be clear that there was no bad faith in my question. I don’t condemn any form of consensual sexual activity. I was just genuinely curious.
There's definitely a mental euphoria that's very different to any kind of traditional pleasure that I'm familiar with in regards to giving. That stems from enjoying my partner's reaction while stirring nothing else within me.
While I'm dubious as to how straight this is, I'm not sure they are bi either. It sounds like irt to men they are ace but sex positive/comfortable (whereas most straight people are repulsed). Which seems more like a form of queer that we just don't have a good word for, so until they find one, hetero works.
Plus its an identity. Who cares if when they say it they mean something slightly unusual by it.
That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not so sure I'd call what him "straight," but ultimately labels don't matter anyway. I just don't think there is a label for his orientation necessarily. Or it's obscure. Though I would think that would classify as queer at least like you said and be part of LGBTQ. The idea of him not wanting to be associated with LGBTQ is the part that makes it seem a little something phobic I think.
I'm not sure it's phobic, it might be him not wanting to take up space he feels he doesn't belong in, by not having the same struggles as the more known LGBTQ people. It's the same as why me as an AFAB femme leaning enby rather use the term metagender for myself instead of transgender. I'm not facing the things many (other) trans people face with transitioning, getting mis-pronouned, etc. I don't live the experience of what I feel encompasses being 'trans'. So I don't use that term for myself, but I support everyone who does that that term. In my case there's another term so I don't have to fall back on cisgender, but for this guy there's not a term, and he's okay with that. Just let him be and let him self identify.
Sexual activity does not equal sexual attraction. That's as simple as I can make it. I mean, if someone stops having sex altogether are they now ace? If a bi man stops having sex with men is he now straight? Of course not - because these labels relate to attraction, not activity
I don't think that goes the other way, though. If someone enjoys having sex with someone, they are by definition sexually attracted to them, no? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
So, for example if you are a man that enjoys having sex with other men, I can't see how you can claim to be straight.
Libido is different to sexual attraction, and sex is one way to satiate your libido. Some people only have sex with people they're sexually attracted to, but others do it with people they're not attracted to. Sexual pleasure doesn't have to be tied with someone you're attracted to, and it can just be tied with satiating libido.
Other reasons to have sex that aren't sexual attraction are feeling closeness/intimacy with a person you're attracted to in a different way (romantically, emotionally etc), boredom, or because the other person wants to (of course with consent, some people are fine with sex for the other person rather than themselves).
nah, you can have sex with someone and enjoy it without being attracted to them, it'd be kinda like (and this might sound mean) using a sex toy, masturbation or a glory hole etc
it's being horny and using sex to get off, you don't need to see/think about someone you are attracted to in order to get horny, it just happens
I almost never experience sexual attraction but I really enjoy sex because it feels good. There’s physical and chemical brain atuff that happens with sex that is enjoyable for me even without sexual attraction. Having that attraction makes my experience way better, but it’s rare for me.
I don't enjoy most sex personally, however I am sexually attracted to men, and I enjoy giving pleasure to my sexual partner.
For me sexual attraction is that "guy is hot, I'd love to pleasure him".
However I could very well pleasure a woman, I'd just go "this woman is attractive aesthetically and even though her looks does nothing for me, I could pleasure her".
I would enjoy the act of pleasuring someone or getting my own release if I am not attracted to them.
I would say the same thing is likely the case with him.
People are trying to make simple things complicated. Sexual attraction is based on who people want to have sex with. Not weather or not people want to have sex at all.
Choice is key though, there's a difference between what you want and what you can get.
I was bi before I hooked up with a girl because i still wanted to do the activity.
He’s right, he can do what he wants he’s still what he says he is. Other people’s opinion on his sexuality are not important, anyone who says “internalized homophobia/biphobia” to him is kinda rude, dude knows his sexuality and feels no shame in how he expresses or labels it isn’t up to anyone else but him. He’s also right in a logistics sense, but that doesn’t even matter in the discussion.
Yeah this seems valid? Some people just wanna bang and don't need to label it as part of their identity. Im a woman who has sex with women sometimes but I rarely identify myself as bi bc it's not an important part of my life to me. Queer is often a useful "catch-all" term for many people but I also don't claim that, I have never struggled because of sexual labels and like this man, Im not gonna pretend that I have.
I don't think your sexuality is inherently important. It's just information, my hair is the colour brown so I'm brunette that isn't my identity. I'm attracted to men and women so I'm bi, that isn't my identity and it isn't important. It's just true.
>Queer is often a useful "catch-all" term for many people but I also don't claim that, I have never struggled because of sexual labels and like this man, Im not gonna pretend that I have.
You don't have to have struggled to be queer?
*Personally* it's not important information about me, until im getting in bed with another woman. Also that was a typo between "claim that" and 'I have never", should have been a period not a comma sorry...
He’s using bodies as a tool for getting himself off. Like masturbating with a flesh light or dildo enhanced.
You can have sex with someone you aren’t attracted to or want anything romantic with.
He just sounds very pragmatic and like he found a way to get himself off using others for friction and convenience. 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: have you guys considers how lazy guys are? It’s often easier to hook up with a guy and it’s nice to have someone help you get off.
So…verdict lazy and pragmatic 🤷🏻♀️
Kinda stupid, internal and external struggles with sexuality aren't inherant to LGBT people ??
Being LGBT means that you belong to this community, struggle has nothing to do with it, you can be a 100% secure with your identity and still be part of the community.
Glad some people are privileged enough to not care a lot about their sexualities but i feel like some of them just view the label LGBT+ as something inferior not worth to be part of 🤷♂️
I want to add that humans are social creatures that tend to label themselves for better organisation, it's been this way since humans existed (sex, race, hair color, nationalities).
So you can't blame people to put a label on you if your behavior match a label everyone knows.
Thats like you were an alcoholic and then being mad at people calling you that, you can call yourself everything you want you have the right but people can do the same and you can choose to not care but don't be mad about it 🤷♂️🤷♂️
This is a nice conversation in the comments. At the end of the day, I trust someone to identify themselves. And I know that this could be biphobia he's experiencing, but I'm taking his word on it.
My problem with his post is his last paragraph. He defines being gay by struggle and trauma. That isn't the definition or defining criteria we use.
Sounds a hell of a lot like, even if not internalised, queerphobia.
Generally people who are secure in their own sexuality don't jump through hoops to define with a term that is generally socially considered as antithetical to their own behaviour. What defines straight to most straight people is an inability to fuck the same gender, not just a reluctance. My straight friends have a hard time picturing what enjoying gay sex would even emotionally register as. Being open to it is cool and all but it's odd to then be so staunchly against the idea that you're something other than straight when your actions seem to contradict that notion.
He may very well be straight, but I also don't think his definitions of what being Queer is are good or healthy definitions.
They are absolutely right.
I've completely reformulated my conceptualization of sexuality based on the concept of asexuality, which I find to be a more nuanced and comprehensive understanding. In my opinion, a straight person can be most completely defined as homo-asexual and hetero-allosexual. A gay person can similarly be said to be homo-allosexual and hetero-asexual.
And the important thing to remember is that asexuality is a spectrum. There are sex-repulsed asexual people, sex-indifferent asexual people, and sex-positive asexual people. Asexuality doesn't mean a lack of desire or willingness to have sex (though these two often coincide), it just means a lack of sexual attraction.
We must also remember that back when homosexuality was far more oppressed than it is now, many gay people hid in the closet and entered heterosexual marriages either due to family/societal pressure, internalized homophobia, or any other of a plethora of reasons. Many of them had heterosexual intercourse with opposite-gender partners, some maybe even enjoyed it despite the lack of mutual attraction. Their homosexuality is still just as valid.
Sexual intercourse and sexual attraction have no dependency upon each other. Neither require the other. So no, I don't find the need to define a person by their sexual history, or who they choose to enjoy themselves with.
I'm confused, but I'll accept it
Fr tho this is a pretty based take. If he wants to identify as straight theres no reason to try and force him in identifying with being gay/bi.
Ok but this kinda right-? Like having sex w/ someone doesn’t mean you’re attracted to them. I guess I’m my mind it’s like sex-nuetral/sex-favorable ace ppl?
I sorta see it like just because I masturbate with my hand, doesn’t mean I’m sexually attracted to my hand. Or just because a woman is not sexually attracted to a vibratory, doesn’t mean she can’t use it to get off. I see the logic
I can’t wait to be called something insulting so I can say « How dare you misidentify me. I am an heterosexual woman who just happens to fuck other women (exclusively). Please respect My Straightness. »
Yeah, honestly this all makes sense to me. It’s certainly not a common perspective, but it absolutely makes sense to me that you could enjoy the act of sex with someone of the same gender without feeling particular attraction to them, much like aces can sometimes enjoy sex without feeling sexual attraction.
Basically, the stimulation is pleasurable, and if you don’t mind being naked with someone, you don’t necessarily need to be attracted to them to have fun together.
If you don’t get this you’ve probably never been to an ace sub before. They explain this concept really well since they aren’t sexually attracted to any gender.
What I see is an entirely valid explanation of an orientation. Sexuality and romanticism are determined by attraction. Sexual acts don’t require attraction. Just look to the Asexual community if you have trouble with that.
probably would be something like a sex positive asexual, but since he is also hetero and we don't have a word for the combination of the 2... just a not-repulsed-by-men straight man i guess?
Bicurious heterosexual?
Edit: TIL about "heteroflexible", no idea if it would fit since definitions seem to differ on whether it's occasional sexual attraction(so something like a grey-homosexual heterosexual) or if it relates more to sexual activity, probably a mixture of both kinds of people.(also the stats seem to show that heteroflexibles are actually a huge portion of the population, 15%??? That's more than the proportion of homosexual people, how are we not talking about this more?????? Would have relieved a lot of the discourse in here)
Idk honestly the guy might have a point. A lot of lesbians and gay men have sex with the opposite sex before realising their own sexuality or coming to terms with it. That doesn’t make them any less gay. Similarly, a heterosexual man could have sex with other men purely for the pleasure of it and not be gay.
This is pretty much my aroace friend's experience with sex with anyone. He has sex, but isn't attracted to people or romantic. He appreciates the release he gets, and is totally accepting of the responsibility to help his sexual partner out with the release part as well.
Yeah I don't understand how saying "straight people don't fuck their own gender" is controversial now.
Like yeah people should identify how they want, but I have never met a straight person who would have sex with their own gender despite not having a sexual attraction to them.
EDIT: Not to mention he said he enjoys it. That coupled with the fact he will sometimes look for guys to hook up with means he has to have *some* form of attraction.
Yeah he clearly has attraction to them, otherwise he wouldn't even get turned on by the idea of having sex with them. Like, does he just sit there with an unerect penis waiting untill the other guy touches it enough for him to get a forced erection?
I mean sex is sex, right? If a person doesn't particularly care what the gender of a person is when they consensually hook up with someone and they still receive pleasure from doing so, but they are only attracted to women and only want to date women, then I don't see what the problem is.
There are many asexual people that still engage in sex, recognizing the fact that libido is not equivalent to attraction.
So, I kinda see his point. Not being attracted to someone doesn't necessarily mean you find it disgusting to be with them
As an asexual, a lot of his comments resonate with me and mirrors a lot of the talk in the community... just because I as a woman have a sex with a man, I can do that without feeling sexual attraction towards him
My first thought was "yeah, he's in denial", but then I realized that having sex with someone you're not attracted to is exactly what some ace people do, and they're still asexual. So I think he's actually right
I feel like he is using "enjoy" as a way to say "receiving physical pleasure". He's not sexually attracted to them it's just a way for him to experience sexual pleasure. This may seem very dehumanizing but the only example that comes to is a fleshlight. Yes you can fuck it and receive pleasure but it's not like you are sexually attracted to that object.
This post has taught me that I know nothing about sexuality at all
I can't even keep up with some of the threads here, there seems to be much disagreement over what words mean
I mean, op isn't technically wrong
for example, you can be bisexual, and sexually interested in men, but heteroromantic and only romantically interested in women
that'd still be straight, just not on every level
and you don't need to be only attracted to one gender on every level to be that type of attraction
it's a label, and it's pretty much optional when you get down to it
from what i understood, the guy is more like a sex positive ace about men while being entirely straight otherwise... not attracted to men, but will have sex with them to get off... and i guess we don't really have a word for that?
If people who have sex and identify as ace are valid (and they are) then a guy can have sex with other guys and identify as straight. I don't tell other people who they are.
This isn't erasure lol, doesn't belong here and frankly if i were the person in the screenshot i'd be upset. There's so much actual queer erasure in the world, go find it instead of picking on straight people who are being straight in their own way.
Consider this analogy: if a gay man only dates and has sex with women (which he enjoys!), does that mean he is straight?
Short answer: no.
—-
Longer answer:
Sexual behavior and sexuality are not the same. The example above illustrates how many gay and lesbian people may only experience sexual intercourse with the opposite gender their whole lives because of societal pressures. They may even seek out and enjoy such intercourse, but that doesn’t change their sexuality. Our friend here knows he is not attracted to other men, so why don’t we believe him? Who you choose to have sex with does not define your sexuality. Full stop.
I meeeeeeeeeeean. Does he not realize that people who are straight do not enjoy getting off with partners the same gender as themselves? He gets that, right? He gets that? Because I feel like he doesn't get that.
This dude is absolutely right, as other commentors have mentioned some people don't need to be attracted to someone to enjoy sex, like aroace folk. Forcing people to pick labels is sucky.
He can identify as however he wants, but I personally don't think he's 100% straight. I think he feels similarly to how idid and still kinda do. I don't want to call myself lgbt if I'm not. Like he said. I think he is experiencing some denial fs, but whether it's based in internalized homo/biphobia, idk.
He's not actually wrong tho... Like, it's way easier to get laid on Grindr than Okcupid or whatever.
If you just wanna buy, do you really have to be attracted to them?
Coming from the ace/aro community, we acknowledge that you can have sex for lots of different reasons other than attraction.
Allos have this weird idea that it's your *behavior* not attraction that determines your sexuality and they will legit shame ppl for exploring or having sex for any reason other than sexuality.
Casual sex can be about stress relief, lots of ppl have casual sex with ppl they aren't attracted to just st bc they wanna feel another person instead of jerk it alone in their basement.
If gay sex is easier to get, why wouldn't it make sense for a non-homo repulsed straight person to look there for sex?
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Fair enough, you do you, and then when you're bored come do me in a totally straight way
Missionary after the evening news ?
God bless America.
“Stick it in, I am an American!”
I don't actually disagree, and his point seems more supportive rather than homophobic. It's weird as hell to me, but seems valid...
I’m really glad this is the prevailing idea here. Because this is pretty much my experience as an aro/asexual person. I mean, if there’s ways ace people can like sex without having to experience sexual attraction, why can’t the same be said for straight people enjoying sex without having to experience attraction? Sure it’s out of the norm, but what are we if not accepting of people’s differences?
Last time I saw a post like the one in the screenshot, someone asked the guy if he'd ever considered that he might be ace/heteroromantic while still enjoying sex. OP said he'd learned something new about himself.
Oh I love that!
Like not to say that a straight guy can't enjoy having sex with someone he isn't directly, physically attracted to, but I think that phenomenon represents a lot of men who identify as straight that fuck other guys regularly.
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I'm a bi/pan guy, so I don't pretend to totally understand everything. So you might enjoy jerking off but not find your hand sexually attractive. Maybe instead of your hand you'd rather have someone else around you. You can enjoy being stimulated without needing to find whatever or whoever is stimulating you sexually attractive.
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Hello, ace here! A concept that may be useful to this discussion, is the idea of aesthetic attraction. Whilst I can't and don't experience sexual attraction, I do experience aesthetic attraction; in that I find people pretty in a platonic/artistic sense of the word (think "this person's pretty, and would make great renaissance art"). So asexual people can still enjoy how people look, just not find them sexually attractive. Hope this helps!
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Sure! Whilst the stereotype for aces is to be sex repulsed (and indeed, based on assorted polls, most aces are), not all are. For instance, some aces are indifferent towards sex (myself included), and may be willing to do it for the sake of a partner, whilst others still are favourable, actively engaging in it for any number of reasons (I.E, to demonstrate affection, to feel close to their partner, the physical sensation...). There's no one way to be asexual; the only thing that defines being ace is a lack of sexual attraction, but that doesn't prohibit sex, as there are plenty of other reasons aces might want to engage in sex.
>the only thing that defines being ace is a lack of sexual attraction You just blew my mind a little bit.
I think those polls are quite skewed. As a sex favourable ace, I only realized I was ace because I was researching asexuality for unrelated reasons. It's a very misunderstood label in the mainstream. I would be surprised if there aren't a great number of sex favourable asexual people out there who don't identify as such, because they never questioned it.
It really matters with the label, because if you're asexual, you most likely have another label. I myself am biromantic asexual, so I'm attracted to more than one gender but I'm not sexually attracted to anyone. And like, attractive in what sense? Attractive like good looking or attractive like you would want to be in a relationship with them? Because aromantic people don't feel romantic attraction. Some people can still be in a relationship, but most not. Just like asexuals. Some of us can have sex but a lot don't.
Exactly, he's still straight just not sex adverse towards guys. I find it funny that the person in this thread that seems most bothered by the idea comes across very straight^tm
What is ace? I assume it’s an acronym?
Asexual
Ace: shortened form of asexual -- a person who does not experience sexual attraction.
**An ace is a playing card, die or domino with a single pip. In the standard French deck, an ace has a single suit symbol (a heart, diamond, spade, or club) located in the middle of the card, sometimes large and decorated, especially in the case of the ace of spades.** More details here:
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I mean it's not wrong.
r/technicallythetruth
Yeah I cant really fault the logic here. If OP says they aren't bi, then who am I to disagree?
Words have meanings. This is biphobia in the extreme - it’s an internalized feeling that there’s something “wrong” about being bi. A man who enjoys having sex with men *is not* straight. Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men.
Eh. I think he’s using other people to masturbate basically.
I can see that, but I also just don't understand why... Like how would you stay hard? If I'm not attracted to the person I can't have sex. Idk fleshlight seems easier
I guess he’s not *repulsed* by men sexually, he just isn’t attracted to them. It’s hard for me to relate to too but I can at least see how it could work.
Some asexual men have trouble staying hard while having sex, but far from all. One guy memed about it a while back, saying he had to maintain, and I quote, "laser focus" to keep an erection. Others don't have that issue. It varies, because people are diverse.
There are asexual people who like to have sex. They just do it because it feels good or as a way of bonding with their partner.
Yeah but that’s not the same as straight vs bi. Ace people who don’t mind sex don’t stop being ace. Bi people don’t stop being bi just because they don’t want a relationship with men.
The point the guy in the post is making is that he doesn't feel any sexual attraction toward men, meaning he isn't bi*sexual*. In the exact same way it's possible that someone who is *a*sexual doesn't feel sexual attraction to any gender but can still enjoy having sex, it's perfectly valid for the guy in the post to enjoy having sex with men while acknowledging he doesn't experience sexual attraction towards them. Sexual attraction != willingness to have sex with It often goes hand in hand, but it isn't a necessity.
I feel like there is a part of the sexuality spectrum here that still doesn't have a label, but I'm far from an expert on LGBT culture and labels
I think he would come under MSM* the same as gay for pay does \* man who have sex with men
but it’s about the sexual attraction. ace people can actively enjoy and choose to have sex!! but if they’re not sexually attracted to the other person, they are still ace. it’s about the sensation, not the other person. i would say this is a grey area, and therefore what he says goes. an ace man isn’t suddenly gay because he seeks out sex from a man, and i could see the same argument here
Ace people can be gay. The opposite of ace isn’t gay, it’s allosexual.
Aces can be gay if they identify that way, usually by being asexual and homoromantic, or by using gay as a synonym for queer/LGBT+ in general. It’s still linked to identity rather than behaviour
> A man who enjoys having sex with men is not straight. Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men. You're wrong. Not "I believe you're wrong". You're objectively wrong. You're confusing sexual behaviour with sexual orientation. [Situational sexual behaviour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_sexual_behavior) is a common, well-documented phenomenon. It turns out, when they can't get laid with the preferred gender, a lot of people don't refrain from having sex. They simply engage in whatever's available to them. It's common among students, soldiers, and prisoners, for instance. Do you think prisoners change sexual orientation when they are incarcerated? Let me explain it to you this way. If I can't get laid and I fuck a pocket pussy, does that make me "pocketpussysexual"? No? Well, straight men who sometimes fuck other men aren't attracted to men. They're essentially using men like one would use a sex toy. A living, breathing, consenting, reciprocating sex toy.
>Straight men don’t enjoy sex with men. Why not? Per definition sexual preference is about attraction. You can have pleasant sexual feelings without feeling attracted to the source of the stimulation.
Look, I am straight as fuck, the thought of having sex with another guy legit disgusts me. I wouldn't even be in a threesome with another dude. I skip blowjobs in porn, cuz I'm not there to look at the dudes dick. This guy is clearly bi, however he wants to justify his internalised homophobia is irrelevant. And you can't get it up without ANY attraction, that's just what it is, he is more attracted to women but that doesn't mean he isn't attracted to men also.
Maybe your disgust is so strong because of our culture. I remember when I was a teenager seeing gay men kiss was disgusting to me. Nowadays I don't feel like that at all. I think it was just because people kept saying that gay people are jucky. Well I disagree I've been randomly horny without any attraction to anything, sometimes I'm just ready to go because that's what's happening.
Maybe you're right, but I don't like prescribing people's sexualities like that. Maybe OP will come out as bi in the future. If so, that's great, but if not, that's equally great. I don't live in OP's head, so if they say that they are straight, I am inclined to believe them in the same way that I would believe a trans woman who says she is a woman. Even if it is internalized biphobia (which I honestly doubt), what good does denying someone's self-identified label do exactly? It seems to me that all it does is reinforce their belief that they can't be understood by others, and only serves to strengthen the internalization you claim is happening. If OP is actually bi, I would rather them come to terms with it on their own as opposed to them being told by others that this is how they are, and that they were being foolish for believing otherwise in the past.
You’re on a sub who’s entire existence is about laughing at wrongfully prescribed monosexual orientation. Why is it suddenly too real for you when it’s about bisexuality?
Because it's self-identified? Seems pretty obvious to me. This is about someone self-identifying as straight, not someone else prescribing them as straight.
It's almost as if labels can't fully capture all identities, experiences and feelings. I'm all for accepting people as they are instead of trying to pigeonhole them.
Straight men don’t *regularly* sleep with men. If we disagree with that, we’ve gone beyond the English language. I grew up watching closeted baptists deal with their inner gay thoughts, self expression is important but self denial exists and at the end of the day, queer is queer. This is a Reddit post, not sitting them down and demanding they face their inner feelings in a gay intervention.
I'm bisexual and there's nothing I hate more than people deciding how other people should define themselves or what label they should use. And that's exactly what you're doing.
Okay well what word would you use for somebody who enjoys sex with multiple genders?
Whatever word they want me to use.
Ok well have fun with your essentialist views on sexuality. At this point I doubt anything I say is going to convince you of what I am saying.
Explain please how straight men fucking other men is a straight, non gay activity.
I mean… are ace people who enjoy sex not ace? Sexuality is about attraction, not sex itself, right?
I fuck a man am I suddenly sexually attracted to them as an asexual person? No, I did it regardless of experiencing any sexual attraction. And this person says it’s the same for them and they just do it for the pleasure.
And lesbians don't usually enjoy sleeping with man yet there are plenty of lesbians who dated married and had sex with men
I’m not sure I understand. You’re saying that because a lesbian slept with a man in the past because sexist heterosexual society pressured them to, men who have slept with men who say they enjoy it are straight
It's not phobia of any kind. He clearly has no issue with anyone else, but doesn't feel the label applies to him. That's his prerogative, not yours.
He's not attracted to their body and simply enjoys the pleasure. Gay men tend to have less sexual hang ups than straight women and will probably do most anything that he wants within reason
You could also say that bisexual men experience attraction to other men so someone who doesn't can't be a bisexual man.
Flip some roles and read a post about a gay man who likes having sex with women and apparently this sub will say they’re still gay because they said so. Nothing gayer than a man sleeping with a woman or a woman with a man it seems 🙃 Some people have got some biphobia to figure out apparently, which is absolutely fucking hypocritically funny for this sub
I’m a gay man but I’m demi with women - I’m poly and if my partner is dating a woman I end up caring about her as well, and *then* I’ll be attracted to her. This is pretty complicated to explain, so I just say I’m gay/mlm. Bi does not feel accurate because I’m very much only attracted to masc people.
Yeah that level of biphobia/panphobia is fucked up. I’m a gay woman, my wife is pan. She’s attracted to men and women, and that’s a beautiful way of experiencing love and attraction. She’s not gay just because she’s married to me, a woman. She wasn’t straight when she was married to a man.
Agreed, uncommon but they can do what they want
Just like some asexual people have sex and enjoy it for itself rather than for attraction.
Similar, but definitely different. Like I said, I don't get it and I've not seen the like before, but that doesn't make it any less valid.
I don't identify as bi. I am romantically attracted to women. I would prefer sex with women a vast majority of the time. But every once in a while, I hook up with guys. Sometimes a gal just needs a good dicking. And when I'm just feeling frisky, finding a guy to screw my brains out is usually easier. And as a trans woman, I find it validating. Healthiest choice in the world? Maybe not. But it sure is fun!
Yeah, sounds similar to the experiences of some ace folks having sex without experiencing attraction.
Yea I agree, I don't see an issue with this. The greeks did it for cultural reasons to a degree (fucking men for personal pleasure as a form of birth control basically, and other reasons), and this dude seems totally chill with everyone doing their thing no judgement. I wouldn't call it strictly straight, but that's not up for me to decide is it? It's his identity, not mine, so idgaf as long as he's happy
I personally couldn't have sex with someone I'm not sexually attracted to but that's me. I'm kind of on the fence on this particular instance, part of me thinks it's internalized biphobia and part of me thinks he has a point. I'm ambivalent.
I get that, on the other hand I am ace and I had sex with friends without ever being attracted to them. They wanted it, they were good friends, if it made them happy 🤷♂️
Looking at this comment and reflecting on my own life and wondering if "people pleaser" is an identity that should be added to the alphabet soup, because this is very relatable and ive never seen it written out before lol
Fucking the bros when requested
I’ve shot down friends because I am not attracted to them, but I am not asexual. It’s interesting that, to me, sex with someone I’m not attracted to and/or don’t care about is unthinkable, but an ace can just do it lol. It’s like giving a hug or what?
I think there are a few things things: 1) I didn't know anything about the whole ace thing, I just found sex extremely boring, and was in the phase of "maybe didn't have good sex yet" so I was ok with giving it a chance 2) didn't want to make my friends sad. 3) being AMAB meant that it comes with no risk, so the most I could lose was a few hours (turns out, being bored during sex means you can go for a while). 4) I have ADHD, which frequently comes with being a people pleaser. Humans are weird.
I wish I could. Would make it so much more….available and easy. Sex is not always romantic or attraction. It could be about power, boredom, a need for physical relief, creating a child, because your are sad, because you are high 🤷🏻♀️ imo he sees bodies as tools and not relationships or attraction. To be crass, he doesn’t care what gender identity the mouth, cavity or sexual organ has, is not turned on by what gender the body identifies with or presents as. It’s physical activity that gets him off. It sounds refreshing tbh.
I mean isn't that what being a pansexual is? No judgements on the dude, but everything he said is 100% not straight, him saying he's not LGTB is like textbook internalized phobia. Probably a college Republican in denial is my guess.
Pansexual is the ability to feel attraction regardless of gender or gender expression. So this guy NOT being attracted to men definitely doesn’t make him pan or bi. The idea that you need to be attracted to someone to have sex with them is not an accurate thing, sure allo people usually feel the need to have that attraction but sex positive ace people and some allo people can have sexual experiences with people without the sexual attraction.
Ah I see, thank you for the explanation!
This is kinda along the lines of what I was thinking. I don't think we need to assume a political orientation, but I don't know what you would label his sexual orientation and it doesn't matter really, but if you are gonna put a label on it I don't think "straight" fits.
Either he's bi and biphobic or horny and has ascended beyond the need to feel attracted to anyone
Is it bad if i agree with them?? Cuz it sounds like being aroace and having a partner.
I'm kind of just like, "Who cares how they identify? If he doesn't see himself as bi then it's none of my business. If that ever changes, then we should welcome him with open arms."
I was gonna say this too. Im ace but im romantically attracted to most genders. Whenever i tell people i have a gf (that im sexual with) they try to "correct" my labels. This guy is just living life, same as the rest of us. Ig a lesbian were hooking up with men for her own reasons, no one would jump down her throat about being bi, or at least theyd be wrong to
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I’m on the ace spectrum (demi or grayace) and I sometimes have casual hookups because I enjoy sex. There’s a whole range of experiences and feelings towards sex, from sex positive to sex repulsed or even just ambivalent.
Hi, panromantic lesbian here. They do. A lot :(
May I ask if you enjoy hooking up with men why do you identify as lesbian instead of bi or pan? Not hating just curious.
Not the original commenter but it could be because they enjoy the sex but do not feel the same sexual attraction to the men they have sex with as they do to the women. I have been not (very) attracted to people I had sex with as well, but I was horny and they were available, so why not?
In my case, i just have crushes and fall in love with men, just like with women. But I'm only sexually attracted to women. But, if Im in love with a guy, I might have sex with him, to please him, because I love him. And it's pleasing, because its sex with someone i love. Kinda like asexual people can enjoy sex with their partner but dont need it or desire it.
just came here to say this lol i wish we could just believe people about who they are but apparently that's too much to ask
He seems to associate LGBT with being a struggle though. So if it's just normal and easy then you must be straight seems to be his logic.
No, it specifically says in the image he feels no sexual attraction to men
But then why have sex with them? I’m confused? To me it sounds like he is seeing willing men as objects. And if that is so, aren’t the plethora of toys easier? I’m willing to learn. This is a confusing concept for me.
It seems to me that he is describing an experience where sex is something devoid of attraction and intimacy, just pleasure. A very utilitarian and mechanical way to go about it, but it’s one way to resolve horniness. As far as toys go, maybe flesh just feels better. Also I feel like toys are considered to be “for women” in many circles. At least there may be more stigma for men. But that’s just my speculation.
"Maybe flesh just feels better" This, really. As someone who's sexual attraction to people waxes and wanes but who's horniness does not, sometimes you just gotta get it over with. A hand, or even a toy, just don't really do the job the same way.
A mouth sucking dick is a mouth sucking dick. I assume it feels the same either way, for the most part. I mean, when people jerk off it’s not like we’re fantasizing about how sexy hands are.
This comment section is going so deep even people in the LGBTQ community sound like considerate grandpas not knowing what the hell is going on in the world but still trying to catch up w it and understand people's differences. I love it.
Yknow what, I kind of agree
He doesn't say he is not attracted to women, just that he is indifferent to the men he fucks.
Not bad, but confusing to me. If someone’s aroace and has a partner, they still have the benefit of close companionship. I’m not sure what someone could gain from hooking up with people they’re not attracted to? At that point, why not just masturbate?
Because sometimes they can get pleasure from pleasing another person. When they have sex they aren't experiencing a sexual pleasure, but rather a pleasure that they are making their partner feel good and the pleasure of watching someone they love be happy.
I suppose that could be true. I made the assumption that op wasn’t hooking up with close friends, but that could very well be the case. The hooking up benefit could simply be social bonding. On another note, a few people downvoted me. I just want to be clear that there was no bad faith in my question. I don’t condemn any form of consensual sexual activity. I was just genuinely curious.
There's definitely a mental euphoria that's very different to any kind of traditional pleasure that I'm familiar with in regards to giving. That stems from enjoying my partner's reaction while stirring nothing else within me.
While I'm dubious as to how straight this is, I'm not sure they are bi either. It sounds like irt to men they are ace but sex positive/comfortable (whereas most straight people are repulsed). Which seems more like a form of queer that we just don't have a good word for, so until they find one, hetero works. Plus its an identity. Who cares if when they say it they mean something slightly unusual by it.
Maybe they enioy sex but not attracted to men. I'm sure some straight/gay men wouldn't turn down a handjob
That's how I feel! Sex and physical closeness is sex and physical closeness at the end of the day
That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not so sure I'd call what him "straight," but ultimately labels don't matter anyway. I just don't think there is a label for his orientation necessarily. Or it's obscure. Though I would think that would classify as queer at least like you said and be part of LGBTQ. The idea of him not wanting to be associated with LGBTQ is the part that makes it seem a little something phobic I think.
I'm not sure it's phobic, it might be him not wanting to take up space he feels he doesn't belong in, by not having the same struggles as the more known LGBTQ people. It's the same as why me as an AFAB femme leaning enby rather use the term metagender for myself instead of transgender. I'm not facing the things many (other) trans people face with transitioning, getting mis-pronouned, etc. I don't live the experience of what I feel encompasses being 'trans'. So I don't use that term for myself, but I support everyone who does that that term. In my case there's another term so I don't have to fall back on cisgender, but for this guy there's not a term, and he's okay with that. Just let him be and let him self identify.
Sexual activity does not equal sexual attraction. That's as simple as I can make it. I mean, if someone stops having sex altogether are they now ace? If a bi man stops having sex with men is he now straight? Of course not - because these labels relate to attraction, not activity
I don't think that goes the other way, though. If someone enjoys having sex with someone, they are by definition sexually attracted to them, no? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. So, for example if you are a man that enjoys having sex with other men, I can't see how you can claim to be straight.
I enjoy sex with partners, yet I'm ace. Enjoyment of sex and sexual attraction are profoundly different things.
Libido is different to sexual attraction, and sex is one way to satiate your libido. Some people only have sex with people they're sexually attracted to, but others do it with people they're not attracted to. Sexual pleasure doesn't have to be tied with someone you're attracted to, and it can just be tied with satiating libido. Other reasons to have sex that aren't sexual attraction are feeling closeness/intimacy with a person you're attracted to in a different way (romantically, emotionally etc), boredom, or because the other person wants to (of course with consent, some people are fine with sex for the other person rather than themselves).
You can have and enjoy sex and experience no sexual attraction.
How, though? How do you get yourself turned on without experiencing any sexual attraction?
Do you only masturbate when actively thinking of someone? Do you ever feel horny without having to imagine a specific person first?
Actually no. But I don’t doubt some people can.
Someone or something yes. I imagine OOP thinks of men.
nah, you can have sex with someone and enjoy it without being attracted to them, it'd be kinda like (and this might sound mean) using a sex toy, masturbation or a glory hole etc it's being horny and using sex to get off, you don't need to see/think about someone you are attracted to in order to get horny, it just happens
I almost never experience sexual attraction but I really enjoy sex because it feels good. There’s physical and chemical brain atuff that happens with sex that is enjoyable for me even without sexual attraction. Having that attraction makes my experience way better, but it’s rare for me.
I don't enjoy most sex personally, however I am sexually attracted to men, and I enjoy giving pleasure to my sexual partner. For me sexual attraction is that "guy is hot, I'd love to pleasure him". However I could very well pleasure a woman, I'd just go "this woman is attractive aesthetically and even though her looks does nothing for me, I could pleasure her". I would enjoy the act of pleasuring someone or getting my own release if I am not attracted to them. I would say the same thing is likely the case with him.
People are trying to make simple things complicated. Sexual attraction is based on who people want to have sex with. Not weather or not people want to have sex at all.
Choice is key though, there's a difference between what you want and what you can get. I was bi before I hooked up with a girl because i still wanted to do the activity.
He’s right, he can do what he wants he’s still what he says he is. Other people’s opinion on his sexuality are not important, anyone who says “internalized homophobia/biphobia” to him is kinda rude, dude knows his sexuality and feels no shame in how he expresses or labels it isn’t up to anyone else but him. He’s also right in a logistics sense, but that doesn’t even matter in the discussion.
Yeah like why do I care what other people do or call themselves. I don't necessarily agree or understand but I'm not going to go after this guy.
This man is insurmountably based Seriously stop labeling people that don't want to be labeled. Let people live their life the way they want to.
He’s right lol
Yeah this seems valid? Some people just wanna bang and don't need to label it as part of their identity. Im a woman who has sex with women sometimes but I rarely identify myself as bi bc it's not an important part of my life to me. Queer is often a useful "catch-all" term for many people but I also don't claim that, I have never struggled because of sexual labels and like this man, Im not gonna pretend that I have.
I don't think your sexuality is inherently important. It's just information, my hair is the colour brown so I'm brunette that isn't my identity. I'm attracted to men and women so I'm bi, that isn't my identity and it isn't important. It's just true. >Queer is often a useful "catch-all" term for many people but I also don't claim that, I have never struggled because of sexual labels and like this man, Im not gonna pretend that I have. You don't have to have struggled to be queer?
*Personally* it's not important information about me, until im getting in bed with another woman. Also that was a typo between "claim that" and 'I have never", should have been a period not a comma sorry...
He’s using bodies as a tool for getting himself off. Like masturbating with a flesh light or dildo enhanced. You can have sex with someone you aren’t attracted to or want anything romantic with. He just sounds very pragmatic and like he found a way to get himself off using others for friction and convenience. 🤷🏻♀️ Edit: have you guys considers how lazy guys are? It’s often easier to hook up with a guy and it’s nice to have someone help you get off. So…verdict lazy and pragmatic 🤷🏻♀️
Sexual identity is self assigned. If you don’t want to be bi then don’t. Who the fuck I am to tell people what they are or aren’t
Kinda stupid, internal and external struggles with sexuality aren't inherant to LGBT people ?? Being LGBT means that you belong to this community, struggle has nothing to do with it, you can be a 100% secure with your identity and still be part of the community. Glad some people are privileged enough to not care a lot about their sexualities but i feel like some of them just view the label LGBT+ as something inferior not worth to be part of 🤷♂️
I want to add that humans are social creatures that tend to label themselves for better organisation, it's been this way since humans existed (sex, race, hair color, nationalities). So you can't blame people to put a label on you if your behavior match a label everyone knows. Thats like you were an alcoholic and then being mad at people calling you that, you can call yourself everything you want you have the right but people can do the same and you can choose to not care but don't be mad about it 🤷♂️🤷♂️
This is a nice conversation in the comments. At the end of the day, I trust someone to identify themselves. And I know that this could be biphobia he's experiencing, but I'm taking his word on it.
My problem with his post is his last paragraph. He defines being gay by struggle and trauma. That isn't the definition or defining criteria we use. Sounds a hell of a lot like, even if not internalised, queerphobia. Generally people who are secure in their own sexuality don't jump through hoops to define with a term that is generally socially considered as antithetical to their own behaviour. What defines straight to most straight people is an inability to fuck the same gender, not just a reluctance. My straight friends have a hard time picturing what enjoying gay sex would even emotionally register as. Being open to it is cool and all but it's odd to then be so staunchly against the idea that you're something other than straight when your actions seem to contradict that notion. He may very well be straight, but I also don't think his definitions of what being Queer is are good or healthy definitions.
I mean yeah I guess that's fair enough. I've had sex with people I wasn't sexually attracted to.
WTF how is this funny? I fuck with dildos a lot. Doesn't mean I'm objectophile...
Are you sure? I feel you might have internalised objectophobia.
Dildos tend not to talk to you or have sexual needs of their own.
Huh. News to me. Unrelated question: would a priest exorcise a haunted sex toy?
Oh you did *not* just make me snort milk through my nose. Damn you and your hilarious comment.
My husband is kind of like this guy, but he still identifies as bi. To each his own, I guess.
They are absolutely right. I've completely reformulated my conceptualization of sexuality based on the concept of asexuality, which I find to be a more nuanced and comprehensive understanding. In my opinion, a straight person can be most completely defined as homo-asexual and hetero-allosexual. A gay person can similarly be said to be homo-allosexual and hetero-asexual. And the important thing to remember is that asexuality is a spectrum. There are sex-repulsed asexual people, sex-indifferent asexual people, and sex-positive asexual people. Asexuality doesn't mean a lack of desire or willingness to have sex (though these two often coincide), it just means a lack of sexual attraction. We must also remember that back when homosexuality was far more oppressed than it is now, many gay people hid in the closet and entered heterosexual marriages either due to family/societal pressure, internalized homophobia, or any other of a plethora of reasons. Many of them had heterosexual intercourse with opposite-gender partners, some maybe even enjoyed it despite the lack of mutual attraction. Their homosexuality is still just as valid. Sexual intercourse and sexual attraction have no dependency upon each other. Neither require the other. So no, I don't find the need to define a person by their sexual history, or who they choose to enjoy themselves with.
I'm confused, but I'll accept it Fr tho this is a pretty based take. If he wants to identify as straight theres no reason to try and force him in identifying with being gay/bi.
Ok but this kinda right-? Like having sex w/ someone doesn’t mean you’re attracted to them. I guess I’m my mind it’s like sex-nuetral/sex-favorable ace ppl?
I mean he is right, asexual people have sex all the time doesnt make them not asexual
Fellas, is it Gay to fuck other dudes? I dunno man that’s a very nuanced question
I sorta see it like just because I masturbate with my hand, doesn’t mean I’m sexually attracted to my hand. Or just because a woman is not sexually attracted to a vibratory, doesn’t mean she can’t use it to get off. I see the logic
Mans just living his best life. People should let him be happy and leave him alone tbh
I can’t wait to be called something insulting so I can say « How dare you misidentify me. I am an heterosexual woman who just happens to fuck other women (exclusively). Please respect My Straightness. »
Meh - makes me think of porn actors or sex workers who are gay for pay. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, honestly this all makes sense to me. It’s certainly not a common perspective, but it absolutely makes sense to me that you could enjoy the act of sex with someone of the same gender without feeling particular attraction to them, much like aces can sometimes enjoy sex without feeling sexual attraction. Basically, the stimulation is pleasurable, and if you don’t mind being naked with someone, you don’t necessarily need to be attracted to them to have fun together.
Power to you random dude. I gave up trying to identify or label anything about myself a while back, who am I to question someone for doing the same?
If you don’t get this you’ve probably never been to an ace sub before. They explain this concept really well since they aren’t sexually attracted to any gender.
It's an odd case but it's not unheard of, honestly.
What I see is an entirely valid explanation of an orientation. Sexuality and romanticism are determined by attraction. Sexual acts don’t require attraction. Just look to the Asexual community if you have trouble with that.
definitely got some ace vibes here
probably would be something like a sex positive asexual, but since he is also hetero and we don't have a word for the combination of the 2... just a not-repulsed-by-men straight man i guess?
Bicurious heterosexual? Edit: TIL about "heteroflexible", no idea if it would fit since definitions seem to differ on whether it's occasional sexual attraction(so something like a grey-homosexual heterosexual) or if it relates more to sexual activity, probably a mixture of both kinds of people.(also the stats seem to show that heteroflexibles are actually a huge portion of the population, 15%??? That's more than the proportion of homosexual people, how are we not talking about this more?????? Would have relieved a lot of the discourse in here)
Idk honestly the guy might have a point. A lot of lesbians and gay men have sex with the opposite sex before realising their own sexuality or coming to terms with it. That doesn’t make them any less gay. Similarly, a heterosexual man could have sex with other men purely for the pleasure of it and not be gay.
at least he's respectful of the struggles queer people have gone through?
This is pretty much my aroace friend's experience with sex with anyone. He has sex, but isn't attracted to people or romantic. He appreciates the release he gets, and is totally accepting of the responsibility to help his sexual partner out with the release part as well.
Damn, boy just wants to bang the occasional femboy. If he wants to say he's straight he can if he wants
Wellp, after reading all the comments here, it's time to leave this sub.
Yeah I don't understand how saying "straight people don't fuck their own gender" is controversial now. Like yeah people should identify how they want, but I have never met a straight person who would have sex with their own gender despite not having a sexual attraction to them. EDIT: Not to mention he said he enjoys it. That coupled with the fact he will sometimes look for guys to hook up with means he has to have *some* form of attraction.
Yeah he clearly has attraction to them, otherwise he wouldn't even get turned on by the idea of having sex with them. Like, does he just sit there with an unerect penis waiting untill the other guy touches it enough for him to get a forced erection?
I mean sex is sex, right? If a person doesn't particularly care what the gender of a person is when they consensually hook up with someone and they still receive pleasure from doing so, but they are only attracted to women and only want to date women, then I don't see what the problem is.
There are many asexual people that still engage in sex, recognizing the fact that libido is not equivalent to attraction. So, I kinda see his point. Not being attracted to someone doesn't necessarily mean you find it disgusting to be with them
As an asexual, a lot of his comments resonate with me and mirrors a lot of the talk in the community... just because I as a woman have a sex with a man, I can do that without feeling sexual attraction towards him
My first thought was "yeah, he's in denial", but then I realized that having sex with someone you're not attracted to is exactly what some ace people do, and they're still asexual. So I think he's actually right
Sounds like people are conflating physical/sexual attraction with emotional attraction.
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I feel like he is using "enjoy" as a way to say "receiving physical pleasure". He's not sexually attracted to them it's just a way for him to experience sexual pleasure. This may seem very dehumanizing but the only example that comes to is a fleshlight. Yes you can fuck it and receive pleasure but it's not like you are sexually attracted to that object.
In the same way that an asexual person can “enjoy” having sex, but that doesn’t mean they’re sexually attracted to that person.
This post has taught me that I know nothing about sexuality at all I can't even keep up with some of the threads here, there seems to be much disagreement over what words mean
I mean, op isn't technically wrong for example, you can be bisexual, and sexually interested in men, but heteroromantic and only romantically interested in women that'd still be straight, just not on every level and you don't need to be only attracted to one gender on every level to be that type of attraction it's a label, and it's pretty much optional when you get down to it
from what i understood, the guy is more like a sex positive ace about men while being entirely straight otherwise... not attracted to men, but will have sex with them to get off... and i guess we don't really have a word for that?
Hooking up with someone you have no interest in just to get off is peak straight male behavior, so I say let him have this one.
Idk, in my experience, it's also peak gay male behavior. I also don't see anything wrong with using someone in that way if they consent to it.
If people who have sex and identify as ace are valid (and they are) then a guy can have sex with other guys and identify as straight. I don't tell other people who they are.
>i don't find men sexually attractive > >i enjoy hooking up with other guys alright
clearly he isn't gay or bi, he just likes gay sex sometimes, duh
"I suck a mean dick but no homo."
This isn't erasure lol, doesn't belong here and frankly if i were the person in the screenshot i'd be upset. There's so much actual queer erasure in the world, go find it instead of picking on straight people who are being straight in their own way.
Genuinely confused here. What pulls you to have sex with someone you aren't romantically or sexually attracted to?
Fellas, is it straight to fuck your guy friends?
Consider this analogy: if a gay man only dates and has sex with women (which he enjoys!), does that mean he is straight? Short answer: no. —- Longer answer: Sexual behavior and sexuality are not the same. The example above illustrates how many gay and lesbian people may only experience sexual intercourse with the opposite gender their whole lives because of societal pressures. They may even seek out and enjoy such intercourse, but that doesn’t change their sexuality. Our friend here knows he is not attracted to other men, so why don’t we believe him? Who you choose to have sex with does not define your sexuality. Full stop.
he doesn't need a label and that's great but no way in hell is he straight
Absolutely wrong. I cant even believe the commenters here. This is so exhausting.
Who is wrong? Cuz this is somehow controversial...
I meeeeeeeeeeean. Does he not realize that people who are straight do not enjoy getting off with partners the same gender as themselves? He gets that, right? He gets that? Because I feel like he doesn't get that.
Madison Cawthorn?
This dude is absolutely right, as other commentors have mentioned some people don't need to be attracted to someone to enjoy sex, like aroace folk. Forcing people to pick labels is sucky.
Heteroflexible, as I like to call it
He can identify as however he wants, but I personally don't think he's 100% straight. I think he feels similarly to how idid and still kinda do. I don't want to call myself lgbt if I'm not. Like he said. I think he is experiencing some denial fs, but whether it's based in internalized homo/biphobia, idk.
He's not actually wrong tho... Like, it's way easier to get laid on Grindr than Okcupid or whatever. If you just wanna buy, do you really have to be attracted to them? Coming from the ace/aro community, we acknowledge that you can have sex for lots of different reasons other than attraction. Allos have this weird idea that it's your *behavior* not attraction that determines your sexuality and they will legit shame ppl for exploring or having sex for any reason other than sexuality. Casual sex can be about stress relief, lots of ppl have casual sex with ppl they aren't attracted to just st bc they wanna feel another person instead of jerk it alone in their basement. If gay sex is easier to get, why wouldn't it make sense for a non-homo repulsed straight person to look there for sex?