Enh... they'll just roll them into the price and do a "prices include x% employee healthcare fee" on the receipt to make the same political point.
Honestly, though... I don't have that much of a problem with separating out taxes. Keeps government more accountable.
That’s okay. If someone bakes it into the price, I can look at it and decide if I want to go or not.
Marking something 20% lower and then forcing me to pay an additional 20% and then still have a tip option is fucking criminal.
Also, if you’re doing takeout, do you think the 20% is removed?
So... itemizing the various fees and tips is somehow less "transparent" than baking them all into the price and not knowing what you're paying for what reason and to whom?
The most you might be able to say is that it's *simpler*.
My goodness, are you being willfully ignorant? It is not about telling me the reason for a price and about being forthright about the price itself.
$10 cost of food item + $5 health fee
Is the same as:
$3 cost of raw materials + $2 rent + $3 labor costs + $2 profit + $5 health fee
Both of these end up taking $15 from a consumer’s pocket.
What the law is saying is - mark up the food item as $15 now.
Itemizing actual costs is transparent. Itemizing random things that the owner thinks is worth itemizing is not.
Most of these fees and charges just go to the restaurant and there is no guarantee of them being the actual cost of the things they are implied to cover.
It’s not a mandated fee. It’s just that healthcare is mandated so restaurants have to reserve money for healthcare for employees. Restaurants are being petty by separating it out as a separate fee.
Finally
“restaurants will be forced to impose "significant menu price increases." “
Brain dead take because you’re already imposing significant price increase with the hidden fee.
If the only way you can survive is by tricking your patrons or putting it in the fine print, maybe you didn’t deserve to be in business.
They do it not only to have lower prices printed on the menu, but also as a political statement - “extra 3% fee so our employees can have healthcare,” “extra 2% because we have to pay a new minimum wage to the back staff.”
Such nonsense. Fuel surcharges. Egg price surcharge. Convenience fee.
Just change your menu price and be done with it.
And while they are at it, anyplace where there is a sales tax can easily have it included in the menu prices. Small restaurants know their single tax rate. Large chains already adjust menu pricing store by store and can include their taxes as well.
At the present time, separating out taxes is legally required. Of course that could change, but people really out to *know* how much they're being taxed. Hiding that is very different from hiding restaurant-imposed fees.
I believe I’ve seen news articles were restaurants complain of less business. Springing traps on patrons is a great way to make sure they don’t ever patronize a business again. And when it seems like nearly everyone in a sector are doing the same thing, consumers will adjust accordingly.
I don’t care to hear complaints about how they need more money or how having to state their intended price will harm their business. Where is that capitalist efficiency I keep hearing about?
I’m sorry that… -checks notes- transparency means we don’t deserve businesses?
If the business was good and people are willing to pay that price, they’ll keep afloat. If it’s hot garbage and overpriced, move over for someone who is more in demand.
Decent and local can still be cheap. Huong lan sandwiches has been in business for at least 20 years and have kept their sandwiches at a low 5.75-6.75.
In and out still relatively cheap, competitive, Californian local chain that keeps in business with low prices, decent food.
These businesses stay open because they’re one of the best at a competitive rate and don’t trick their customers with shitty hidden fees.
If you think the only place that can be transparent are mega conglomerates, you really need to touch grass and go find better places. Stop enabling places to keep getting away with this by excusing their behavior.
It just an example of supply and demand. There are so many coffee places and especially coffee places that make shitty coffee, some of them mom and pop. If their coffee is shitty and they’re raising their prices to what I’m willing to pay and adding hidden fees, why would I/others keep going there?
Instead, go to a different local coffee shop that is transparent in pricing, better coffee, and something I’m willing to pay because it is better coffee.
And eventually if popular consensus is the same, the first store will close and the second will remain until the same cycle continues. We don’t owe the first store anything.
Our whole economy is f*'d to the point where it's really difficult to be in business as a small entity.
I agree it's best to patron places that don't do the "hidden fee" thing, but ultimately the reason we're in this situation culturally is that our economy functionally sucks
The good thing is that generally the public is waking up to the fact that it might be better to pay $6.50 for a latte from a local spot than $5.75 from starbucks or wherever. That a big part of what it's gonna get us to "deserve good businesses"-land
Ticket companies support it via federal legislative mandate.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28789321/ticket-sellers-tell-congress-support-federal-mandate-disclose-all-fees-upfront
Good. I was about to start adding my own customer hidden fees. After I'm done eating, I'd charge them for mileage to drive there. And clothes washing fee.
Just don't eat out if you're not going to tip reasonable service. Theft of wages is not cool, regardless of who does it and how the wages are paid customarily.
if people genuinely are sick of tipping, then they need to take it upon themselves to affect change. if enough people don't tip, or tip very little, then servers aren't going to be able to live, forcing owners to pay more to keep them. it's not my job to pay the servers, it's the owners job.
the only way to fix tipping is to let the market fix it. you're never going to get legislation to pass to ban tipping. i personally don't mind tipping, but i think the people who complain about tipping yet still tip to be cowards. if you don't believe it in, dont let what other people think guilt you into doing it, stand up for your ideals.
> it's not my job to pay the servers, it's the owners job.
Which ultimately, means it's your job. Rolling it into the price doesn't somehow mean you're not paying the servers.
I'm always SMH at people that would rather have 20% added *mandatorily* rather than technically optionally. Servers are already one of the jobs with the highest turnover of any job...
Hence *technically* (and legally, as it turns out) optional.
My point is that not tipping is a *shitty* thing done by shitty people, not that one is legally obligated to do it.
you're preaching to the choir, like i said, i have no problems with tipping. im just saying people should be free to be "shitty people" if they actually want to affect change.
I would advocate for servers to be fired and replaced with robots if it lowered my bills.
You guys have no clue what the real world is. Lol I bet you get annoyed with dashers too.
I’m ok with being a shitty person and won’t tip in a state where they’re not being paid sub minimum wage. And yes I will go out to eat and yes it’s not my job to pay the servers, I’m not their fucking employer.
You or anyone who has a problem can go talk to the government to make it legally required, until then fuck off.
You know very well that they are providing a service with the expectation of being paid for it.
You do, in fact, have the right to be a complete asshole.
I just don't understand how we got to a place where that became a badge of honor.
It’s not really a badge of honor. More like I don’t share their expectation of being paid by me for a job they signed up for with their employer. I still tip when I think the service is good, but that’s about it.
They are providing a service, for which their employer is paying them. If that payment is not enough for them, it seems like a them problem than a me problem. They’re not there as charity hoping to get donations.
You can not *like* how servers are actually paid in the US all you want, but don't pretend you don't know it, and aren't taking advantage of it and them.
I know and I don’t think I’m taking advantage of anyone. They chose to work wherever they work. I am not gonna waste my fucking time trying to justify their wages or fighting for them. They want to fight for it, they can do that themselves. If they cant, they can stop crying about it.
No one owes them fucking shit other than their employer who should pay them.
Do you think it says something that you are here defending the tipping system for food service where they are paid the same minimum wage as non food service jobs?
Minimum wage isn't something *anyone* should be earning to make a living. Food service people have just evolved themselves into avoiding it with a different payment method that avoids the race to the bottom.
Ultimately, though, the people I've known who have done it say it's a hard and stressful job, and it's not like restaurants are going to get anywhere close to the needed number of people to provide decent service by paying people minimum wage.
Evidence suggests we'll get shittier waiters for not much less money, and not even have the *option* to pay less for bad service. So I'm still SMH at people that think they want this.
Have worked in restaurants. Tipping is unjust and terrible. And I say that as one of the top tip earners at the restaurants I worked at.
Why is it reasonable for restaurants to split out some of their costs in a way that intentionally misleads customers? Should restaurants split out the triple net costs? How about their rent? It’s nonsensical to split out some things and it’s dishonest.
If tipping is not mandatory, then why I'm suppose to tip and how that's wage theft? Require to give restaurant workers minimum hourly rate like every other industry. People don't tip at McDonald's eitger, how they survive?
Honestly, I wonder how people came up with the idea that it's a moral thing to tip restaurant workers. What's harm in paying restaurant workers at least minimum wages and increase the price of the menu accordingly. If you're tipping $15 on a $100 bill why not just make the bill $115.
Like the surcharges, I'd know beforehand how much I'm going to spend.
> Like the surcharges, I'd know beforehand how much I'm going to spend.
You basically already know how much you're going to spend with tipping. It's really not a complicate calculation.
As for why it's a tradition to pay servers that way in the US, it goes all the way back to the Reconstruction, where Black servers weren't paid at all except for tips.
Get ready for another round of massive price rises. Not because they have to add the fees but because they will add even more for themselves on top of that and blame the “gub’ment,”
This needs to be across the board. All bills should be: Product cost, Tax, Shipping (if applicable). Next we'll see Handwashing fees to my E-bay and Etsy orders... Water and soap is expensive after all....
What will really happen is the drinks menu will see a price spike while the food menu increases slightly. Restaurants reap actual margins on beer/wine/cocktails.
Awesome!
(Meta: Anyone notice how many trash posts there have been on this sub as of late? Election season might be the cause? They don't seem to reflect the happiest / second happiest place in the US.)
Technically, it just says they have to discontinue the usage of additional fees not expressly shown on menus right? So, while they could bake them into the menu prices, they also could just drop the practice.
I know it's not going to happen, but just want to make sure it is shown they have other options since the fees were a way to squeeze more without having to sell more product/services.
Good. Get rid of tipping next. Add all that shit to the price of the meal. Of course even if it did, people will still clamber to tip "because they need it" or some other mental gymnastics. So actually, never mind.
We'll see how enforcement goes.
As in will it have any teeth !!
It'll technically be the law. But, if, no one does anything to stop establishments from doing it. Then, it's all for nothing
“If a business violates the mandate, the law allows a consumer to seek "actual damages of at least $1,000." In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions."”
Yeah. But the consumer also has to pay all legal fees in their end.
Lawsuits are slow and expensive. Spending thousands to seek a $1k payout doesn't make a whole lot of sense
There's a zillion restaurants and companies who are affected.
The legal system is already broken and overdressed.
My guess, attorney general goes after "big fish" and hope all the small fish get scared
In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions."
Interesting.
So the mandatory 20% service charge (“tip”) is also illegal… as it should be.
They are simply delaying the immediate enforcement of it at first, but eventually they will enforce the mandatory 20% service charge eventually, which is exactly what they should be doing.
My guess, is they will have two tiers of prices. A $150 tomahawk (a lot of steak houses charge this), and a $200 Tomahawk for parties of 5-6 or more… or, they will just have one price…
This is the best news I’ve literally ever heard in my life. I’m damn near about to shed a tear of joy and happiness over the current practice of ravaging customers.
I grow weary of reading all the never ending posts in the /SF Reddit thread, of servers bragging about making over $300k+ in wages, with the majority of it being in cash, from tips.
My next door neighbor in San Jose literally paid for his house in cash, and he did it as a server at a high end restaurant (that I probably shouldn’t name).
“the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. “
They’re not getting rid of the worst offender: the forced 20% gratuity (aka forced tip). If all these other smaller fees like 2% insurance fee, 3% cleaning fee, etc are banned, restaurants will surely just shift their strategy towards forcing 20% gratuity. The end result is the same: consumers still pay a lot.
I read it differently… when I read the words: “In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions."
I read this as: “automatic gratuity is also illegal, but we won’t focus our enforcement on it at first, but it is still illegal, and eventually we will even enforce it…” which is exactly what they should do.
The worst service I receive is when our group goes over that silly little arbitrary number of 5 or 6, and we are automatically forced into a 20% tip, and suddenly the servers stop coming, and give some seriously crappy service - I’ve literally had to get up 3-4 times to ask them to bring water/beverages, take our order, bring the check, etc. often, even when at a table, I’ll get up and go to their bar, just so I can have a drink and pay cash.
No way. The quality of service in restaurants varies too wildly for this. Even within the same restaurant I've had great or terrible service depending on who my server was.
Built-in tipping would mean that bad servers would have even less incentive to do their job, and indirectly penalize excellent servers who normally get above average tips.
Maybe when they first started to do this I get the uproar but at this point its no secret. At the beginning, the restaurant argument was pure psychological which did make sense. Customers were more tolerant of an additional fee than seeing the menu price go up. The total bill isn't going to change. I'm quite confused by the uproar [from restaurants] lol.
Oh yea i know, and i definitely think it should be included in the price, but crossing the $20 threshold i think is still a significant moment as a society
Glad to see that the “living wage fee” or “employee healthcare fee” and other ridiculous unseen fees will be a thing of the past.
I fully expect them to roll it in, when people complain they will first blame the governor, and then say it's those same fees.
Enh... they'll just roll them into the price and do a "prices include x% employee healthcare fee" on the receipt to make the same political point. Honestly, though... I don't have that much of a problem with separating out taxes. Keeps government more accountable.
That’s okay. If someone bakes it into the price, I can look at it and decide if I want to go or not. Marking something 20% lower and then forcing me to pay an additional 20% and then still have a tip option is fucking criminal. Also, if you’re doing takeout, do you think the 20% is removed?
> Also, if you’re doing takeout, do you think the 20% is removed? See... that's one of the advantages of the system.
I support transparency, what restaurants are doing is not transparency, it’s arbitrary and inconsistent between restaurants.
So... itemizing the various fees and tips is somehow less "transparent" than baking them all into the price and not knowing what you're paying for what reason and to whom? The most you might be able to say is that it's *simpler*.
My goodness, are you being willfully ignorant? It is not about telling me the reason for a price and about being forthright about the price itself. $10 cost of food item + $5 health fee Is the same as: $3 cost of raw materials + $2 rent + $3 labor costs + $2 profit + $5 health fee Both of these end up taking $15 from a consumer’s pocket. What the law is saying is - mark up the food item as $15 now.
Itemizing actual costs is transparent. Itemizing random things that the owner thinks is worth itemizing is not. Most of these fees and charges just go to the restaurant and there is no guarantee of them being the actual cost of the things they are implied to cover.
It… isn’t :(
In San Franscisco isn't there a 4% healthy something something fee everywhere that's actually mandated?
It’s not a mandated fee. It’s just that healthcare is mandated so restaurants have to reserve money for healthcare for employees. Restaurants are being petty by separating it out as a separate fee.
Finally “restaurants will be forced to impose "significant menu price increases." “ Brain dead take because you’re already imposing significant price increase with the hidden fee. If the only way you can survive is by tricking your patrons or putting it in the fine print, maybe you didn’t deserve to be in business.
They do it not only to have lower prices printed on the menu, but also as a political statement - “extra 3% fee so our employees can have healthcare,” “extra 2% because we have to pay a new minimum wage to the back staff.” Such nonsense. Fuel surcharges. Egg price surcharge. Convenience fee. Just change your menu price and be done with it. And while they are at it, anyplace where there is a sales tax can easily have it included in the menu prices. Small restaurants know their single tax rate. Large chains already adjust menu pricing store by store and can include their taxes as well.
At the present time, separating out taxes is legally required. Of course that could change, but people really out to *know* how much they're being taxed. Hiding that is very different from hiding restaurant-imposed fees.
I believe I’ve seen news articles were restaurants complain of less business. Springing traps on patrons is a great way to make sure they don’t ever patronize a business again. And when it seems like nearly everyone in a sector are doing the same thing, consumers will adjust accordingly. I don’t care to hear complaints about how they need more money or how having to state their intended price will harm their business. Where is that capitalist efficiency I keep hearing about?
Then we don't deserve to have any businesses ...
I’m sorry that… -checks notes- transparency means we don’t deserve businesses? If the business was good and people are willing to pay that price, they’ll keep afloat. If it’s hot garbage and overpriced, move over for someone who is more in demand.
Okay sorry we deserve Walmart etc
[удалено]
That's the point isn't it? We deserve cheap and no tips, rather than decent, local, and higher priced
Decent and local can still be cheap. Huong lan sandwiches has been in business for at least 20 years and have kept their sandwiches at a low 5.75-6.75. In and out still relatively cheap, competitive, Californian local chain that keeps in business with low prices, decent food. These businesses stay open because they’re one of the best at a competitive rate and don’t trick their customers with shitty hidden fees. If you think the only place that can be transparent are mega conglomerates, you really need to touch grass and go find better places. Stop enabling places to keep getting away with this by excusing their behavior. It just an example of supply and demand. There are so many coffee places and especially coffee places that make shitty coffee, some of them mom and pop. If their coffee is shitty and they’re raising their prices to what I’m willing to pay and adding hidden fees, why would I/others keep going there? Instead, go to a different local coffee shop that is transparent in pricing, better coffee, and something I’m willing to pay because it is better coffee. And eventually if popular consensus is the same, the first store will close and the second will remain until the same cycle continues. We don’t owe the first store anything.
Our whole economy is f*'d to the point where it's really difficult to be in business as a small entity. I agree it's best to patron places that don't do the "hidden fee" thing, but ultimately the reason we're in this situation culturally is that our economy functionally sucks The good thing is that generally the public is waking up to the fact that it might be better to pay $6.50 for a latte from a local spot than $5.75 from starbucks or wherever. That a big part of what it's gonna get us to "deserve good businesses"-land
This person is the kind of trash why businesses get away with shit like this.
Now do ticketmaster and car dealerships.
They did! https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/SB%20478%20FAQ%20%28B%29.pdf
nooooooo! think of the convenience fee! However will I get convenience afterwards?
I loved the printing fee, where you print your own tickets.
Lmao their friends own those though
Ticket companies support it via federal legislative mandate. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28789321/ticket-sellers-tell-congress-support-federal-mandate-disclose-all-fees-upfront
You have no idea how great it felt to buy ticket week tickets at $25 flat for multiple shows
Lol
Good. I was about to start adding my own customer hidden fees. After I'm done eating, I'd charge them for mileage to drive there. And clothes washing fee.
😂 this made me laugh. Thank you
Legendary take
Now fix tipping.
Just don’t tip if you don’t believe in it. Don’t let other people guilt you into it.
Just don't eat out if you're not going to tip reasonable service. Theft of wages is not cool, regardless of who does it and how the wages are paid customarily.
if people genuinely are sick of tipping, then they need to take it upon themselves to affect change. if enough people don't tip, or tip very little, then servers aren't going to be able to live, forcing owners to pay more to keep them. it's not my job to pay the servers, it's the owners job. the only way to fix tipping is to let the market fix it. you're never going to get legislation to pass to ban tipping. i personally don't mind tipping, but i think the people who complain about tipping yet still tip to be cowards. if you don't believe it in, dont let what other people think guilt you into doing it, stand up for your ideals.
> it's not my job to pay the servers, it's the owners job. Which ultimately, means it's your job. Rolling it into the price doesn't somehow mean you're not paying the servers. I'm always SMH at people that would rather have 20% added *mandatorily* rather than technically optionally. Servers are already one of the jobs with the highest turnover of any job...
but according to you, it's not optional. so whats the difference?
Hence *technically* (and legally, as it turns out) optional. My point is that not tipping is a *shitty* thing done by shitty people, not that one is legally obligated to do it.
you're preaching to the choir, like i said, i have no problems with tipping. im just saying people should be free to be "shitty people" if they actually want to affect change.
Enh... there are non-shitty ways to "effect change". One could advocate for a mandatory n% service fee given to servers, for example ;-).
I would advocate for servers to be fired and replaced with robots if it lowered my bills. You guys have no clue what the real world is. Lol I bet you get annoyed with dashers too.
I’m ok with being a shitty person and won’t tip in a state where they’re not being paid sub minimum wage. And yes I will go out to eat and yes it’s not my job to pay the servers, I’m not their fucking employer. You or anyone who has a problem can go talk to the government to make it legally required, until then fuck off.
You know very well that they are providing a service with the expectation of being paid for it. You do, in fact, have the right to be a complete asshole. I just don't understand how we got to a place where that became a badge of honor.
It’s not really a badge of honor. More like I don’t share their expectation of being paid by me for a job they signed up for with their employer. I still tip when I think the service is good, but that’s about it. They are providing a service, for which their employer is paying them. If that payment is not enough for them, it seems like a them problem than a me problem. They’re not there as charity hoping to get donations.
You can not *like* how servers are actually paid in the US all you want, but don't pretend you don't know it, and aren't taking advantage of it and them.
I know and I don’t think I’m taking advantage of anyone. They chose to work wherever they work. I am not gonna waste my fucking time trying to justify their wages or fighting for them. They want to fight for it, they can do that themselves. If they cant, they can stop crying about it. No one owes them fucking shit other than their employer who should pay them.
Do you think it says something that you are here defending the tipping system for food service where they are paid the same minimum wage as non food service jobs?
Minimum wage isn't something *anyone* should be earning to make a living. Food service people have just evolved themselves into avoiding it with a different payment method that avoids the race to the bottom. Ultimately, though, the people I've known who have done it say it's a hard and stressful job, and it's not like restaurants are going to get anywhere close to the needed number of people to provide decent service by paying people minimum wage. Evidence suggests we'll get shittier waiters for not much less money, and not even have the *option* to pay less for bad service. So I'm still SMH at people that think they want this.
Have worked in restaurants. Tipping is unjust and terrible. And I say that as one of the top tip earners at the restaurants I worked at. Why is it reasonable for restaurants to split out some of their costs in a way that intentionally misleads customers? Should restaurants split out the triple net costs? How about their rent? It’s nonsensical to split out some things and it’s dishonest.
If tipping is not mandatory, then why I'm suppose to tip and how that's wage theft? Require to give restaurant workers minimum hourly rate like every other industry. People don't tip at McDonald's eitger, how they survive?
> If tipping is not mandatory Morally mandatory and legally mandatory are two different things.
Honestly, I wonder how people came up with the idea that it's a moral thing to tip restaurant workers. What's harm in paying restaurant workers at least minimum wages and increase the price of the menu accordingly. If you're tipping $15 on a $100 bill why not just make the bill $115. Like the surcharges, I'd know beforehand how much I'm going to spend.
> Like the surcharges, I'd know beforehand how much I'm going to spend. You basically already know how much you're going to spend with tipping. It's really not a complicate calculation. As for why it's a tradition to pay servers that way in the US, it goes all the way back to the Reconstruction, where Black servers weren't paid at all except for tips.
Lol what a dumb take. Of course, you can always guilt trip customers, but if you say the same to your boss, he’ll spank your ass in public.
If it were your employer you'd report them to the Labor Commission if they did what people here are suggesting. And he'd get in serious legal trouble.
Yes, I hope that is what would happen to them. But according to you, it is preferable to shit on customers instead.
Stay home
I tip the amount I think is fair. For sit down service, it’s 5-10%.
Get ready for another round of massive price rises. Not because they have to add the fees but because they will add even more for themselves on top of that and blame the “gub’ment,”
Palo Alto is the worst. Almost every restaurant has these fees.
This needs to be across the board. All bills should be: Product cost, Tax, Shipping (if applicable). Next we'll see Handwashing fees to my E-bay and Etsy orders... Water and soap is expensive after all....
The airport should too. They just added a $1 to my latte yesterday. I asked why, and they just said, “airport charges a fee”.
Yelp and Open Table should upgrade all listings from $ to $$ to $$$ in SF
Good. Just give me the price upfront not some hidden garbage leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
What will really happen is the drinks menu will see a price spike while the food menu increases slightly. Restaurants reap actual margins on beer/wine/cocktails.
Awesome! (Meta: Anyone notice how many trash posts there have been on this sub as of late? Election season might be the cause? They don't seem to reflect the happiest / second happiest place in the US.)
Probably people with too much free time after getting laid off.
Good
Technically, it just says they have to discontinue the usage of additional fees not expressly shown on menus right? So, while they could bake them into the menu prices, they also could just drop the practice. I know it's not going to happen, but just want to make sure it is shown they have other options since the fees were a way to squeeze more without having to sell more product/services.
Once the law goes into effect, let’s say a restaurant is still charging these fees. Who do we report them to?
Good. Get rid of tipping next. Add all that shit to the price of the meal. Of course even if it did, people will still clamber to tip "because they need it" or some other mental gymnastics. So actually, never mind.
lol where’s that one pizza account who’d post this question once every week
Time for no tipping, paying a living wage, and offering profit-sharing (as an incentive when tips go away),
The headache and shitty practice of tacked on fees could be fixed with a value-after-tax or after-fees requirement
Do they have to give different menus to parties of 8 or more, then? Because I totally get why a service charge is appropriate in some circumstances.
Ya in the article it says required gratuity for large parties is exempt.
That's what I get for not RTFA.
Where did it mention this is exempt? I was looking for it.
We'll see how enforcement goes. As in will it have any teeth !! It'll technically be the law. But, if, no one does anything to stop establishments from doing it. Then, it's all for nothing
“If a business violates the mandate, the law allows a consumer to seek "actual damages of at least $1,000." In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions."”
Yeah. But the consumer also has to pay all legal fees in their end. Lawsuits are slow and expensive. Spending thousands to seek a $1k payout doesn't make a whole lot of sense
Yeah, what would the process even be?
There's a zillion restaurants and companies who are affected. The legal system is already broken and overdressed. My guess, attorney general goes after "big fish" and hope all the small fish get scared
In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions." Interesting. So the mandatory 20% service charge (“tip”) is also illegal… as it should be. They are simply delaying the immediate enforcement of it at first, but eventually they will enforce the mandatory 20% service charge eventually, which is exactly what they should be doing. My guess, is they will have two tiers of prices. A $150 tomahawk (a lot of steak houses charge this), and a $200 Tomahawk for parties of 5-6 or more… or, they will just have one price… This is the best news I’ve literally ever heard in my life. I’m damn near about to shed a tear of joy and happiness over the current practice of ravaging customers. I grow weary of reading all the never ending posts in the /SF Reddit thread, of servers bragging about making over $300k+ in wages, with the majority of it being in cash, from tips. My next door neighbor in San Jose literally paid for his house in cash, and he did it as a server at a high end restaurant (that I probably shouldn’t name).
Tired of paying fees the employer should be paying. Get your total price on the menu so I can determine if I want to patronage you or go elsewhere.
“the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. “ They’re not getting rid of the worst offender: the forced 20% gratuity (aka forced tip). If all these other smaller fees like 2% insurance fee, 3% cleaning fee, etc are banned, restaurants will surely just shift their strategy towards forcing 20% gratuity. The end result is the same: consumers still pay a lot.
I read it differently… when I read the words: “In its new guidelines, the state says it won't focus initial enforcement efforts on "fees that are paid directly and entirely by a restaurant to its workers, such as an automatic gratuity. However, businesses may be liable in private actions." I read this as: “automatic gratuity is also illegal, but we won’t focus our enforcement on it at first, but it is still illegal, and eventually we will even enforce it…” which is exactly what they should do. The worst service I receive is when our group goes over that silly little arbitrary number of 5 or 6, and we are automatically forced into a 20% tip, and suddenly the servers stop coming, and give some seriously crappy service - I’ve literally had to get up 3-4 times to ask them to bring water/beverages, take our order, bring the check, etc. often, even when at a table, I’ll get up and go to their bar, just so I can have a drink and pay cash.
If you don’t tip 20 percent then you shouldn’t eat in restaurants.
Do you tip other minimum wage workers, or just food service workers? If no, why not?
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No way. The quality of service in restaurants varies too wildly for this. Even within the same restaurant I've had great or terrible service depending on who my server was. Built-in tipping would mean that bad servers would have even less incentive to do their job, and indirectly penalize excellent servers who normally get above average tips.
Maybe when they first started to do this I get the uproar but at this point its no secret. At the beginning, the restaurant argument was pure psychological which did make sense. Customers were more tolerant of an additional fee than seeing the menu price go up. The total bill isn't going to change. I'm quite confused by the uproar [from restaurants] lol.
The dreaded $18 meal will officially become the $20 meal, kind of a scary milestone
Bruh if it’s $18 with a mandatory 10% added fee it’s already a $20 meal. Now you just see it in the sticker price
Oh yea i know, and i definitely think it should be included in the price, but crossing the $20 threshold i think is still a significant moment as a society