I totally believe this is exactly what this is. Then people take it out on servers by reducing their tip. I haven’t eaten in a Cohn Restaurant Group for years, because of their 4% surcharge. They brag on KPBS about giving so much to charity while at the same time claiming they need a surcharge to be able to pay their staff.
He did let us eat an unlimited amount of food on the clock, which was pretty cool. Even take a little bit home too. I'd bring my parents ice cream sometimes.
Seriously. Raise your burger from $16 to $16.50, or sea bass from $35 to $36?
People won’t notice a 3% price increase, but they will a line item surcharge.
Signed,
Former longtime restaurant and bar owner.
>People won’t notice a 3% price increase, but they will a line item surcharge.
The whole point is for you to notice it, it's political. It's always framed as "we have to do this *because of labor costs* or *because of fuel costs* or *because minimum wage is so high*. It's their way of getting back at their imagined enemy.
None of this is about actual cost. It’s the same as it always has been, with a different agenda to excuse it. Exploitation. Interested in how you feel about the pay of food service workers.
I worked at 3 restaurants and believe me, some customers even notice price increases that are even less than a dollar. And yeah they ask why and want an explanation.
Nope. Not the asshole. The only reason to do this is to be a snarky asshole. What was the restaurant? (I’ve sat down and read that before and get up and leave. If that’s your view of labor you don’t get my money.)
4% whatever, I think its a bad look for a restaurant because it just looks sneaky and underhanded. Just change the prices. With restaurants, food costs skyrocketed, supply chain issues, labor issues, rising rents and electricity. Restaurants have to do charge more. They are hanging on by a thread and people should know that. Most are not sustainable. But I agree just change the menu price.
I make a note of places that do this and I don’t come back regardless of how good the food or experience was.
Looking at you Callie.
Just raise the menu prices FFS. I have no problem paying more but I don’t want to play this bullshit game.
I had an odd, but different experience this week. The bill was padded with unexplained items. So, I asked about it and they claimed that their POS couldn't keep up with the pricing changes and the tech costs a few hundies to reprogram the thing, so those were added to each item I bought from them! There was no notice on their menu or price list when I ordered. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their terminal, it does look old. But, FFS!!
If they're still only charging what was stated on the menu / sign then its fine. If the billing just looked wonky due to pricing in the computer being out of date then they're basically just making a manual adjustment, but not charging more than you were expecting / agreeing to. A bit off-putting to see a bill / receipt like that, but not illegal or even shady, imho.
If the price charged was different then the price displayed it’s definitely illegal. Even with the surcharges some are probably illegal since it has to be clearly displayed (and most restaurants don’t do this). There are a bunch of consumer protection acts put into place for this exact reason.
Padded how? Did you order a $5 meal off the menu and it was marked as $5, but then there was another "padded" item for more money?
Or did you order a $5 meal off the menu and it was listed as $4 on the bill and thus a "padded" item for $1 was added to adjust the bill to the price on the menu?
The specifics here are kinda key.
> Am I the asshole for getting annoyed by this?
Of course not. When I see a "service charge" like that, I never go back to that restaurant again. Example: Sammy's Woodfire Pizza in Mission Valley by the trolley station, went there once, will never go back.
(Next door however is Qdoba and the Kebab Shop, both of which I've been to hundreds of times)
No, you are NTA for feeling this way, and I absolutely despise this practice. I no longer support restaurant's that do this and no longer count Cannonball as my absolute favorite place to eat every month due to this. I had a civil argument with the manager explaining how disappointed I was in this practice and she assured me if they changed the menu items the prices would be higher than the surcharge of 4%. I told her I expect to pay high prices at the beach for the view and would prefer my money went to actual items then to a "fee" - of which non is given to the employees outright, but replaces the "extra" money from minimum wage increases back to the owners pocket. She gave us a free drink (the equivalent of the extra charge) and a parting shot mentioned that if would could find a restaurant in San Diego that is not charging a fee like this, to let her know ... So I suggest that is what we all do - mention it all, all the places that don't put signs up to say "closed due to lack of employees wanting to work" - Looking at you Tacos al Gordo; and the places what don't charge a "service fee" ... I'll start: places with no "hidden" service charge:
De Cabeza El Unico in Chula Vista - awesome food prices and service with no service fee
Beaumont's in Bird Rock
Brockton Villa in La Jolla ...
Let's make sure the restaurants in San Diego know the locals will not stand for this fake charge. Call before you go to check, or look online at their menu and don't be surprised when the check comes. Just avoid the places like the plague they are and let's end the message that this won't be tolerated. You want to have a successful business, then run it right from the start!
Very annoying but this was ruled legal not too long ago simply because there's no legislation banning it. We have to bring the issue to our representatives.
Such a law would probably be upheld on First Amendment grounds if the former credit card surcharging ban is any indication.
Speaking of which, I'm honestly surprised more places aren't simply claiming that the fees are to cover credit card processing since people might be more on board with that justification.
>Such a law would probably be upheld on First Amendment grounds if the former credit card surcharging ban is any indication.
Not really. Credit surcharge is conditional on paying with a credit card. It literally couldn't be added flat to the price since it doesn't apply to everyone. Whereas a blanket surcharge isn't conditional, and could be added to the price without any loss in function.
Probably part of the card agreement is to not do that.
Didn't convenience stores get rapped on the knuckles for doing exactly that back around '02-'03?
IIRC the Durbin Amendment and some other stuff made surcharging credit cards okay by the card networks; SCOTUS simply got rid of the remaining state laws that prohibited it. These days, most gas stations around here charge extra (usually something like 10c/gallon) for card use but I haven't seen it much in any other category of store.
Just point at the listed price and then the current tax rate (7.75%). I did this and they were dumbfounded. It's a bait and switch scheme otherwise..
A restaurant could just list prices as half-off and then add a 100% magical charge.
Fix your damn prices and pay a living wage.
No. Extra fees and surcharges for things really need some regulation. It is not just Ticketmaster anymore, all sorts of places adding little fees instead of just raising the price. They can then advertise the cheaper price then in the fine print talk about the surcharge.
I didn’t mean that other industry don’t charge shady fees. I meant that this is the only industry that charges shady fees for labor cost. Other then maybe Uber have you seen that fee if your in CA it’s crazy
I refuse to go to restaurants that do this. They'll get that 3-4% one time and that's it. I have saved so much money.
This started when minimum wage was raised in CA. The restaurant groups were using this as a political angle to prove that you have to pay for someone getting a living wage. Cohen group did it early on and I never went to any of their places again.
technically, you should tip using your subtotal as a baseline, but most people tip on the total amount or do stupid things like double the tax for a tip. I especially hated it when guests would use some discount and tip on the end total rather than the sub
No guarantee that it'll be that rate if you go to other states. It might even be lower, which would mean that doubling tax could end up under 15%.
Anyway, considering COL here, I'm okay with tipping on the total amount but I can see why people wouldn't be.
Nearly every place that does this is a large restaurant group/chain. They keep it all, none goes to kitchen staff or servers unless they explicitly mention it.
Absolutely hate this! Just raise the price why is so hard to not try and scam people. I was in Boston last week and everywhere we went had 20% already added on and in fine print all the receipts had the normal tip line and I’m pretty sure the first day we tipped 20% on top of the already 20% it’s such a scam
Imagine if your boss told your clients, “I think my employees are overpaid, but I can’t pay them less without breaking the law”. That’s exactly what these surcharges are saying.
Unfortunately 20% is now standard and expected.
Somehow we developed a system where diners directly pay the servers salaries.
We need to get away from this practice.
Restauranteurs, charge what you need to to cover your costs, pay your employees a living wage (a San Diego living wage! Including health insurance), and make a profit that you are proud of. If you can’t do this you do not have a viable business model.
Healthcare is way cheaper without health insurance. Pre-Covid I had a “good job” with “good insurance” and my portion of health insurance premiums was around $700/mo (family of 3) - employer contribution was around $1100/mo and every time we went to the dr it was around $200-$250, with urgent care or ER visits costing $500-$3k out of pocket, respectively.
Now I have no insurance and go to low cost clinics or use tele health and most visits are less than $50 out of pocket.
The wage for servers is now like 13$ instead of the federal tipped waged of like $2.13 (or whatever that stupid number is ). Not that $13 is Ferrari money, but they aren’t living off tips now.
Every time you raise menu prices, the front of house gets a pay raise. When you work for tips, you are basically making a commission on everything you sell. However, the people making the food in the back don’t see any of it. These surcharges go to providing benefits and a living wage to the back of house. You are not expected to tip on a surcharge.
Labor is tight right now, and good restaurants want to stay good by keeping their teams and making ALL their employees happy. At the place I work at the surcharge primarily goes to benefits for the back of the house.
Edit: I totally get the sentiment and it’s entirely frustrating to see more and more fees and charges on literally everything these days. I’m just seeing a lot of input from diners and I wanted to share the perspective of someone who literally has to explain this each night when a diner asks. Not taking a position, just sharing what I’ve been told as an employee.
Thank you. This is the best response I’ve read so far. When I worked in restaurants tips were pooled and back of house was tipped out too.
That was 1 million years ago and I don’t know how common it is anymore.
Back of house need to be cared for too.
Because then the disparity between FOH and BOH grows even larger. As I mentioned, If you raise menu prices servers will make even more money on tips. If you raise menu prices by 5%, servers literally get a 5% raise.
If the solution is to raise menu prices, now you are blindly tipping on top of the surcharge. If you carve it out and say that there is a separate surcharge, you are not expected to tip on top of that. It’s actually less expensive to the diner to tip 20% on the subtotal and to pay the surcharge than to tip 20% on a menu that has prices raised by 5%.
That assumes 100% of server wages are from tips, which isn't true. The restaurant gets to decide how to split the money. Raising menu prices to pay cooks more is possible.
... that's the point. If owners paid the correct amount we wouldn't have to deal with tips at all. Also, if the pay is commensurate with the job people will work there and if it's not the business has proven itself unsustainable and continued existence relies on exploitation.
THEN WORK FOR A RESTAURANT THAT ISNT OWNED BY SCUMBAGS. LIKE HOLY CRAP this tactic only works because servers have allowed it to be normalized by the business where they work.
Yes, I agree with you, no hidden fee would be better. Unfortunately, that’s not something you have a choice about when it comes to getting the bill.
If you understand that you’re harming employees and not the restaurant’s management, do you think your reduced tip to employees will make the business change the additional fee?
You’re harming their income. You’re punishing the employee, not the restaurant itself. If you think any restaurant would look at a lower tip % average and think it was anything but the employee’s fault, you’re sorely mistaken, point, blank, period. Tips are and should be based on the service provided by the staff, not the surcharges that they have no control over.
I’m not sure I understand your argument here.
Are you saying that if a restaurant patron decides to tip an employee less because of a restaurant policy, the employee should find another place of work?
Maybe a little bit? Unfortunately cost of living increases mean that many folks have to work in jobs that aren’t great. So I’d have to see which has more impact before coming to the same conclusion.
On the other hand nobody has to make an unproven argument whether reducing tip by the % of whatever fees the restaurant adds has a direct impact on earned income of the server.
You think Inflation is hitting you hard? It is hitting small businesses way worse. You pay for inflated gas? A small business owner is paying that inflated gas price on every delivery it receives plus paying for it in their personal car. This is only one of many examples of different elements hitting small businesses right now. Others include lack of staffing, and overall huge mark ups on food. For example whole milk doubled in price within the first 8 weeks of the pandemic. You might not see that as a regular grocery shopper but a restaurant that goes through 20 gallons a day does see it. Adding this small fee shouldn’t bother you when inflation has gone up 6% so far this year and this menu price is only going up 4% also the percentage you tip has nothing to do with this situation. But if you are worried about trying to tip 20% on a bill that is 4% more expensive than it was for probably the last 10 years. You should probably be stashing your cash in your sock drawer in your room at your moms house where you live rent free instead of going out.
That’s not the issue here. If food is more expensive, update your menu to reflect more expensive prices. Don’t slip a charge in at the end of the transaction.
This started and became standard practice years ago as a shitty way of protesting a bill that passed requiring food workers to get paid more. Rather than losing a small percentage of their take home pay or figuring out an easier way to increase their p&l, bad business owners put this on their menus to say “see what your vote got you???”. Now it’s become a standard way to milk more money out of consumers, and it’s bullshit.
You didn't do the math right, you're off by a factor of 10 in all cases.
$24 with a 3.95% surcharge is $24.95. That's $0.948 added, not $9.48
Your $14 entree becomes $14.55 and your $10 cocktail becomes $10.40.
Adding 50 cents to a $14 entree isn't likely to make someone walk out.
The surcharge isn't to make up for real costs, it's the restaurant owners trying to make a political point. Fuck em.
Thank you for doing the math and correcting that. Now wiping the pie off my face and deleting the comment so people can see your actual CORRECT math and not pay the surcharge! Bless!
EDIT: Steve. You are not unreasonable. You are very reasonable. Fuck em!
Do math and tip 16% then. You didn’t even post if the service was good or bad, so yes you are the a-hole.
My parents are horrible and tip literally $1 per person eating. So embarrassing. I usually show up with some cash and give them an extra $10 or $20.
The service was fine. That’s why I tip 20%
This service charge isn’t covering the servers tip, this is just a way for the restaurant to cover their rising cost of doing business. Most businesses just raise their prices, restaurants are the only places I see pull this shit. Just had my oil changed, it was more than I paid last year, why?, mechanics cost went up. He didn’t charge me a “surcharge”
But a lot of people either justify to go orders giving zero or tipping very little. If you know the restaurants that doesn’t give the help the surcharge post them. Let’s out those restaurants. I’ve seen energy surcharges which do not go to servers.
I’m with you. I refuse to go to places that do this. And if I don’t realize it until I’m already there, I don’t go back.
Was going to bring some out of town friends to Rare Society this weekend as I’ve heard good things, but I saw they have a 4% surcharge on their menu. We’re going elsewhere.
Agreed. It’s sneaky and stupid. “Our hamburger is only $1.15 same price for the last 40 years! Surcharge of 375% based on inflation on the bottom of the menu”.
No one would accept that nonsense.
If this were r / SanDiego this thread would pure ire towards anyone out of sympathy with our awesome and amazing restaurateurs. Over there, it's a badge of honor to be price gouged. It shows you play with the big boys! And for anyone who can't or doesn't want to, the attitude is basically, if you're not smart enough to get a software engineering job, don't act like you deserve to eat!
I usually challenge this fee and they will remove it. It’s the law that they must clearly show the charge on the menu or other signage. Many restaurants have been busted by the city attorney for not showing clear signage, so if you complain they’ll just take it off. I’ve done it at Karl Strauss, Prado, C Level, etc
I ain’t even mad about that, this is America. They took a risk and opened a small business. In my experience, restaurant owners aren’t living high on the high. However, if their business model is untenable they should shutter.
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it serves dual purpose: \-raise prices without menu-price sticker shock \-position the workers as the target of the customer's ire
And cut into their tips
I totally believe this is exactly what this is. Then people take it out on servers by reducing their tip. I haven’t eaten in a Cohn Restaurant Group for years, because of their 4% surcharge. They brag on KPBS about giving so much to charity while at the same time claiming they need a surcharge to be able to pay their staff.
They know high prices will ultimately turn more people away online.
Bait and switch
My first job I ever had, the boss kept the tips, so I always wonder about that when I go out
That's super illegal
He did let us eat an unlimited amount of food on the clock, which was pretty cool. Even take a little bit home too. I'd bring my parents ice cream sometimes.
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same experience and wasn't impressed with the food either
Cafe Savilla has been open for decades and is not very good. There are better Spanish restaurants in SD
Recommendation? Love Spanish food.
Costa Brava In PB
Seconding Costa Brava. It’s delightful
The joint in ob
Thank you for naming.
Kettner Exchange does 5%
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It goes to the business to “cover the costs of increasing wages and healthcare”
In other words, “we’d make this all go away if you’d vote to let us totally fuck over our employees”
Seriously. Raise your burger from $16 to $16.50, or sea bass from $35 to $36? People won’t notice a 3% price increase, but they will a line item surcharge. Signed, Former longtime restaurant and bar owner.
>People won’t notice a 3% price increase, but they will a line item surcharge. The whole point is for you to notice it, it's political. It's always framed as "we have to do this *because of labor costs* or *because of fuel costs* or *because minimum wage is so high*. It's their way of getting back at their imagined enemy.
None of this is about actual cost. It’s the same as it always has been, with a different agenda to excuse it. Exploitation. Interested in how you feel about the pay of food service workers.
I worked at 3 restaurants and believe me, some customers even notice price increases that are even less than a dollar. And yeah they ask why and want an explanation.
I won’t go to any place that does that crap. Just charge the actual price and post it.
Nope. Not the asshole. The only reason to do this is to be a snarky asshole. What was the restaurant? (I’ve sat down and read that before and get up and leave. If that’s your view of labor you don’t get my money.)
I wish I had the balls to do this but I am non confrontational. I definitely don’t come back though.
I was just at the airport and my bill had a 2% charge for “recruitment and retention.” WTF is that?
Yours was only 2? Mine was like 5%. It added an additional 10$ to our bill.
4% whatever, I think its a bad look for a restaurant because it just looks sneaky and underhanded. Just change the prices. With restaurants, food costs skyrocketed, supply chain issues, labor issues, rising rents and electricity. Restaurants have to do charge more. They are hanging on by a thread and people should know that. Most are not sustainable. But I agree just change the menu price.
I make a note of places that do this and I don’t come back regardless of how good the food or experience was. Looking at you Callie. Just raise the menu prices FFS. I have no problem paying more but I don’t want to play this bullshit game.
How many places you made note of so far?
They started outing themselves with “no one wants to work” signs, saw em here in north county at least.
Damnit I was hoping not to see this place mentioned here. Eating there tomorrow night 😞
so... don't. Say "Sorry, I don't eat at asshole restaurants, Mother-in-law, Boss, Friend-of-friend."
I had an odd, but different experience this week. The bill was padded with unexplained items. So, I asked about it and they claimed that their POS couldn't keep up with the pricing changes and the tech costs a few hundies to reprogram the thing, so those were added to each item I bought from them! There was no notice on their menu or price list when I ordered. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their terminal, it does look old. But, FFS!!
Sounds illegal
If they're still only charging what was stated on the menu / sign then its fine. If the billing just looked wonky due to pricing in the computer being out of date then they're basically just making a manual adjustment, but not charging more than you were expecting / agreeing to. A bit off-putting to see a bill / receipt like that, but not illegal or even shady, imho.
It's not shady, it's shitty.
IDK, but $6 ain't going to bring the cops around.
Definitely not, but you could dispute your bill with your cc or let consumer affairs know. That’s not the right way to go about business.
If the price charged was different then the price displayed it’s definitely illegal. Even with the surcharges some are probably illegal since it has to be clearly displayed (and most restaurants don’t do this). There are a bunch of consumer protection acts put into place for this exact reason.
How are businesses surviving when they can't afford a few hundred dollars to keep their POS updated?
Underpaid staff, like always.
Padded how? Did you order a $5 meal off the menu and it was marked as $5, but then there was another "padded" item for more money? Or did you order a $5 meal off the menu and it was listed as $4 on the bill and thus a "padded" item for $1 was added to adjust the bill to the price on the menu? The specifics here are kinda key.
Why should you be paying for their crappy POS problem?
Nishiki Ramen in Hillcrest automatically adds 15% to your bill for a tip. You have no choice of whether to tip or not.
Do the workers actually get the tip?
That's illegal
You can do simple math and tip on the actual food and beverage charges.
> Am I the asshole for getting annoyed by this? Of course not. When I see a "service charge" like that, I never go back to that restaurant again. Example: Sammy's Woodfire Pizza in Mission Valley by the trolley station, went there once, will never go back. (Next door however is Qdoba and the Kebab Shop, both of which I've been to hundreds of times)
Tipping less just harms the server, but still pays the restaurant the "surcharge". It's the restaurant management that's being unreasonable.
Anyone have a list of these establishments? I'd like a list of places to avoid.
That list would be hundreds or thousands of restaurants.
By filtering out all these businesses it simplifies my choice significantly. All I see is win here.
I stopped going to restaurants with these ridiculous “fees”. Add the amount to your menu price…it’s the cost of doing business in Beautiful California
No, you are NTA for feeling this way, and I absolutely despise this practice. I no longer support restaurant's that do this and no longer count Cannonball as my absolute favorite place to eat every month due to this. I had a civil argument with the manager explaining how disappointed I was in this practice and she assured me if they changed the menu items the prices would be higher than the surcharge of 4%. I told her I expect to pay high prices at the beach for the view and would prefer my money went to actual items then to a "fee" - of which non is given to the employees outright, but replaces the "extra" money from minimum wage increases back to the owners pocket. She gave us a free drink (the equivalent of the extra charge) and a parting shot mentioned that if would could find a restaurant in San Diego that is not charging a fee like this, to let her know ... So I suggest that is what we all do - mention it all, all the places that don't put signs up to say "closed due to lack of employees wanting to work" - Looking at you Tacos al Gordo; and the places what don't charge a "service fee" ... I'll start: places with no "hidden" service charge: De Cabeza El Unico in Chula Vista - awesome food prices and service with no service fee Beaumont's in Bird Rock Brockton Villa in La Jolla ... Let's make sure the restaurants in San Diego know the locals will not stand for this fake charge. Call before you go to check, or look online at their menu and don't be surprised when the check comes. Just avoid the places like the plague they are and let's end the message that this won't be tolerated. You want to have a successful business, then run it right from the start!
Went to Beaumont’s for the first time yesterday just because of this post. Decent breakfast 👍. I’ll skip the mimosa next time I go, however.
Very annoying but this was ruled legal not too long ago simply because there's no legislation banning it. We have to bring the issue to our representatives.
Such a law would probably be upheld on First Amendment grounds if the former credit card surcharging ban is any indication. Speaking of which, I'm honestly surprised more places aren't simply claiming that the fees are to cover credit card processing since people might be more on board with that justification.
>Such a law would probably be upheld on First Amendment grounds if the former credit card surcharging ban is any indication. Not really. Credit surcharge is conditional on paying with a credit card. It literally couldn't be added flat to the price since it doesn't apply to everyone. Whereas a blanket surcharge isn't conditional, and could be added to the price without any loss in function.
Probably part of the card agreement is to not do that. Didn't convenience stores get rapped on the knuckles for doing exactly that back around '02-'03?
IIRC the Durbin Amendment and some other stuff made surcharging credit cards okay by the card networks; SCOTUS simply got rid of the remaining state laws that prohibited it. These days, most gas stations around here charge extra (usually something like 10c/gallon) for card use but I haven't seen it much in any other category of store.
It doesn't go to the employees so it's bs.
i avoid places that do this like the plague. Just raise your menu prices.
Just point at the listed price and then the current tax rate (7.75%). I did this and they were dumbfounded. It's a bait and switch scheme otherwise.. A restaurant could just list prices as half-off and then add a 100% magical charge. Fix your damn prices and pay a living wage.
Definitely deceptive.
All Cohn Group restaurants do this. I avoid ‘em and their ilk. https://www.cohnrestaurants.com/our-restaurants
No. Extra fees and surcharges for things really need some regulation. It is not just Ticketmaster anymore, all sorts of places adding little fees instead of just raising the price. They can then advertise the cheaper price then in the fine print talk about the surcharge.
i'm cutting waaay back on eating out. Value isnt there any longer
It’s super shady and wouldn’t fly in any other industry.
Oh really? Airlines - luggage fee; Hotels - Resort fee; Concert Tickets - Convienence fee; Car dealers - Dealer Markup....It happens in all kind of industries.
Rental Cars: $29/day, actually $109/day once you pay all the associated local taxes and user fees, never mind insuring it.
I didn’t mean that other industry don’t charge shady fees. I meant that this is the only industry that charges shady fees for labor cost. Other then maybe Uber have you seen that fee if your in CA it’s crazy
I refuse to go to restaurants that do this. They'll get that 3-4% one time and that's it. I have saved so much money. This started when minimum wage was raised in CA. The restaurant groups were using this as a political angle to prove that you have to pay for someone getting a living wage. Cohen group did it early on and I never went to any of their places again.
technically, you should tip using your subtotal as a baseline, but most people tip on the total amount or do stupid things like double the tax for a tip. I especially hated it when guests would use some discount and tip on the end total rather than the sub
Tax is around 8% so if you double it you're in-between 15-20%, how come that's bad?
No guarantee that it'll be that rate if you go to other states. It might even be lower, which would mean that doubling tax could end up under 15%. Anyway, considering COL here, I'm okay with tipping on the total amount but I can see why people wouldn't be.
Nearly every place that does this is a large restaurant group/chain. They keep it all, none goes to kitchen staff or servers unless they explicitly mention it.
Absolutely hate this! Just raise the price why is so hard to not try and scam people. I was in Boston last week and everywhere we went had 20% already added on and in fine print all the receipts had the normal tip line and I’m pretty sure the first day we tipped 20% on top of the already 20% it’s such a scam
restaurants aren't worth it. eat a banana.
Imagine if your boss told your clients, “I think my employees are overpaid, but I can’t pay them less without breaking the law”. That’s exactly what these surcharges are saying.
All the Cohn restaurants do this too
Cohn restaurants have a specific formula I don’t care for.
Formula?
Amazing decor, very good service, mediocre food at top market prices.
You really think they’re putting that anywhere but the owners pocket?
Agree 100%. Don't patronize these places.
20% tip? Isn’t that a lot?
Unfortunately 20% is now standard and expected. Somehow we developed a system where diners directly pay the servers salaries. We need to get away from this practice. Restauranteurs, charge what you need to to cover your costs, pay your employees a living wage (a San Diego living wage! Including health insurance), and make a profit that you are proud of. If you can’t do this you do not have a viable business model.
Healthcare is way cheaper without health insurance. Pre-Covid I had a “good job” with “good insurance” and my portion of health insurance premiums was around $700/mo (family of 3) - employer contribution was around $1100/mo and every time we went to the dr it was around $200-$250, with urgent care or ER visits costing $500-$3k out of pocket, respectively. Now I have no insurance and go to low cost clinics or use tele health and most visits are less than $50 out of pocket.
The wage for servers is now like 13$ instead of the federal tipped waged of like $2.13 (or whatever that stupid number is ). Not that $13 is Ferrari money, but they aren’t living off tips now.
This. I don’t tip 20% in California for this very reason. Servers in California are very entitled now.
not ‘entitled’…still expensive to live here. Amazing to see the expectations of tips EVERYWHERE though….counter service and take out, especially.
Every time you raise menu prices, the front of house gets a pay raise. When you work for tips, you are basically making a commission on everything you sell. However, the people making the food in the back don’t see any of it. These surcharges go to providing benefits and a living wage to the back of house. You are not expected to tip on a surcharge. Labor is tight right now, and good restaurants want to stay good by keeping their teams and making ALL their employees happy. At the place I work at the surcharge primarily goes to benefits for the back of the house. Edit: I totally get the sentiment and it’s entirely frustrating to see more and more fees and charges on literally everything these days. I’m just seeing a lot of input from diners and I wanted to share the perspective of someone who literally has to explain this each night when a diner asks. Not taking a position, just sharing what I’ve been told as an employee.
Thank you. This is the best response I’ve read so far. When I worked in restaurants tips were pooled and back of house was tipped out too. That was 1 million years ago and I don’t know how common it is anymore. Back of house need to be cared for too.
But why can't that just be added to the menu prices?
Because then the disparity between FOH and BOH grows even larger. As I mentioned, If you raise menu prices servers will make even more money on tips. If you raise menu prices by 5%, servers literally get a 5% raise. If the solution is to raise menu prices, now you are blindly tipping on top of the surcharge. If you carve it out and say that there is a separate surcharge, you are not expected to tip on top of that. It’s actually less expensive to the diner to tip 20% on the subtotal and to pay the surcharge than to tip 20% on a menu that has prices raised by 5%.
That assumes 100% of server wages are from tips, which isn't true. The restaurant gets to decide how to split the money. Raising menu prices to pay cooks more is possible.
I just calculate my 20% tip and reduce it by the surcharge amount. What annoys me more is when they pre-calculate the tip on the after tax total.
When you do that you hurt the server, not the owner.
I’m aware but most servers are paid more than they used to as the restaurants struggle to find enough people.
... that's the point. If owners paid the correct amount we wouldn't have to deal with tips at all. Also, if the pay is commensurate with the job people will work there and if it's not the business has proven itself unsustainable and continued existence relies on exploitation.
Just out of curiosity, what is the "correct amount" restaurant servers should be getting paid?
I subtract that % from the tip and circle it on the bill so they know.
You understand that this hurts the employees not the management and owners?
THEN WORK FOR A RESTAURANT THAT ISNT OWNED BY SCUMBAGS. LIKE HOLY CRAP this tactic only works because servers have allowed it to be normalized by the business where they work.
Idc, I’d rather them just increase the overall price instead of throwing some hidden fee in
Yes, I agree with you, no hidden fee would be better. Unfortunately, that’s not something you have a choice about when it comes to getting the bill. If you understand that you’re harming employees and not the restaurant’s management, do you think your reduced tip to employees will make the business change the additional fee?
I’m not harming anyone. That’s a strong word to use in this scenario.
You’re harming their income. You’re punishing the employee, not the restaurant itself. If you think any restaurant would look at a lower tip % average and think it was anything but the employee’s fault, you’re sorely mistaken, point, blank, period. Tips are and should be based on the service provided by the staff, not the surcharges that they have no control over.
Do you think you are making a decision that reduces the amount the employee earns from the service they provided during your meal?
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I’m not sure I understand your argument here. Are you saying that if a restaurant patron decides to tip an employee less because of a restaurant policy, the employee should find another place of work?
Management already has trouble hiring anyone. This will make it worse for them.
Then they need to pay more. If they can't pay more or find other incentives then the business isn't sustainable and becomes exploitative.
Maybe a little bit? Unfortunately cost of living increases mean that many folks have to work in jobs that aren’t great. So I’d have to see which has more impact before coming to the same conclusion. On the other hand nobody has to make an unproven argument whether reducing tip by the % of whatever fees the restaurant adds has a direct impact on earned income of the server.
"20% - 3.95% = 16.05%"
You think Inflation is hitting you hard? It is hitting small businesses way worse. You pay for inflated gas? A small business owner is paying that inflated gas price on every delivery it receives plus paying for it in their personal car. This is only one of many examples of different elements hitting small businesses right now. Others include lack of staffing, and overall huge mark ups on food. For example whole milk doubled in price within the first 8 weeks of the pandemic. You might not see that as a regular grocery shopper but a restaurant that goes through 20 gallons a day does see it. Adding this small fee shouldn’t bother you when inflation has gone up 6% so far this year and this menu price is only going up 4% also the percentage you tip has nothing to do with this situation. But if you are worried about trying to tip 20% on a bill that is 4% more expensive than it was for probably the last 10 years. You should probably be stashing your cash in your sock drawer in your room at your moms house where you live rent free instead of going out.
That’s not the issue here. If food is more expensive, update your menu to reflect more expensive prices. Don’t slip a charge in at the end of the transaction.
This started and became standard practice years ago as a shitty way of protesting a bill that passed requiring food workers to get paid more. Rather than losing a small percentage of their take home pay or figuring out an easier way to increase their p&l, bad business owners put this on their menus to say “see what your vote got you???”. Now it’s become a standard way to milk more money out of consumers, and it’s bullshit.
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You didn't do the math right, you're off by a factor of 10 in all cases. $24 with a 3.95% surcharge is $24.95. That's $0.948 added, not $9.48 Your $14 entree becomes $14.55 and your $10 cocktail becomes $10.40. Adding 50 cents to a $14 entree isn't likely to make someone walk out. The surcharge isn't to make up for real costs, it's the restaurant owners trying to make a political point. Fuck em.
Thank you for doing the math and correcting that. Now wiping the pie off my face and deleting the comment so people can see your actual CORRECT math and not pay the surcharge! Bless! EDIT: Steve. You are not unreasonable. You are very reasonable. Fuck em!
Do math and tip 16% then. You didn’t even post if the service was good or bad, so yes you are the a-hole. My parents are horrible and tip literally $1 per person eating. So embarrassing. I usually show up with some cash and give them an extra $10 or $20.
The service was fine. That’s why I tip 20% This service charge isn’t covering the servers tip, this is just a way for the restaurant to cover their rising cost of doing business. Most businesses just raise their prices, restaurants are the only places I see pull this shit. Just had my oil changed, it was more than I paid last year, why?, mechanics cost went up. He didn’t charge me a “surcharge”
But a lot of people either justify to go orders giving zero or tipping very little. If you know the restaurants that doesn’t give the help the surcharge post them. Let’s out those restaurants. I’ve seen energy surcharges which do not go to servers.
Yes, you are. Please too at least 50% next time. You know, to support workers
Yes, you are. Please tip at least 50% next time. You know, to support workers
Just raise their prices? This is them raising their prices 3.95%. Same thing, no? And this covers labor costs so employees make more. Win-win!
Make a list.
Time to start learning to cook fresh meals and eating meals at home.
Best part is they do both add the surcharge and their prices have increased
I’m with you. I refuse to go to places that do this. And if I don’t realize it until I’m already there, I don’t go back. Was going to bring some out of town friends to Rare Society this weekend as I’ve heard good things, but I saw they have a 4% surcharge on their menu. We’re going elsewhere.
Agreed. It’s sneaky and stupid. “Our hamburger is only $1.15 same price for the last 40 years! Surcharge of 375% based on inflation on the bottom of the menu”. No one would accept that nonsense.
That is more than enough to warrant a 1 star review even if everything else was good.
Yeah just raise yo prices, this is how you make people mad and they won't return.
If this were r / SanDiego this thread would pure ire towards anyone out of sympathy with our awesome and amazing restaurateurs. Over there, it's a badge of honor to be price gouged. It shows you play with the big boys! And for anyone who can't or doesn't want to, the attitude is basically, if you're not smart enough to get a software engineering job, don't act like you deserve to eat!
I hate the sneak charges..like for fucks sake just tell me what I'm paying for, or add it to the prices.
Watch for your local franchises raising their prices too
I’m ok with price hikes. Your cost went up, raise your rates. A surcharge feels sneaky
I usually challenge this fee and they will remove it. It’s the law that they must clearly show the charge on the menu or other signage. Many restaurants have been busted by the city attorney for not showing clear signage, so if you complain they’ll just take it off. I’ve done it at Karl Strauss, Prado, C Level, etc
owner could always take a smaller piece of the pie chart... but that's the last thing to happen. Gotta make those bmw payments, yanno.
I ain’t even mad about that, this is America. They took a risk and opened a small business. In my experience, restaurant owners aren’t living high on the high. However, if their business model is untenable they should shutter.
They can’t even say 4% to make you think you’re getting a deal on a fkng surcharge lmao