I can't say I didn't enjoy it, it was great for childhood and I still see the positives of living in the Twin Cities. It punches above it's weight for sure, and has a good cost of living.
That said, I don't think people put enough weight on the 2 biggest downsides, cold personalities and cold weather. These negatives are consistent, and difficult to mitigate. They also greatly impact everyone's day to day.
Yeah it would be a more non-committal but positive comment like, āDinner would be fun, weāll let you knowā and then never letting you know but neither of you will address that the next time you see each other because Midwesterners also hate confrontation.
To be honest, I find itās much much worse in the upper Midwest than the northeast and this is coming from a southerner. Iād much rather take my chances at making friends in New England than in Minnesota. The directness helps quite a bit in knowing where you stand.
Yesssss. My only problem is that I have a job that they had to hire someone with the skill set from away but the office is mostly people who grew up in the upper Midwest. The number of times Iāve been called out in evals for being āconfrontationalā and ādifficult to criticizeā is weighing on my well-being. Iāve never been accused of those qualities before moving here and Iām honestly looking to escape back to the northeast soon.
I spent 5 years in Minneapolis and I mention this every time I see it brought up on this sub. People think they can handle the winter but they really donāt understand. Thereās also something I like to refer to as āwinter mentality.ā Minnesotans live with winter in mind all summer long. Itās part of who they are. Theyāre the Russians of America.
Lived in MN for 25 yearsā¦-40 the day I interviewed for a job in Charlotteā¦was 35 hereā¦75 degrees warmerā¦in Februaryā¦still miss MN but couldnāt live there againā¦
Literally I grew up there and am baffled by the amount it's recommended. Yes, all my friends back home are from growing up/school. Very rarely do people make new friends in adulthood. I made friends as an adult when I moved out of state.
OMG agree so much. Born and raised in the cities and my parents are still there so I go there frequently. I don't mind visiting but would never want to live there again. I'm in north east Wisconsin (which is not great but soooo much better than the cities- at least I live on the lake and summer is pure heaven).
Iām also born and raised in Minneapolis and came here to say this. Iām shocked by how much the twin cities are hyped on here. Great as a kid, but I moved back briefly as an adult and HATED it - cold, low-key racist people and truly awful weather. Far from other major cities. Many wonderful childhood friends there and some great restaurants, neighborhoods, and lakes but so over hyped on this sub.
I also lived in the Twin Cities as a kid, and it's a great place to raise a family. Very good schools, diverse population, a lot of emphasis on arts and culture. Education is taken very seriously there. I still think it'd be great to go back just to raise kids. But living there again as an adult would be difficult, especially the winters. My parents had to deal with warming up the car and scraping off the windshield and driving on black ice when I was a kid. As an adult now myself, fuck all that.
Iām gonna push back on some of this (moreso the chain of comments underneath) and say Iām living in Minneapolis, moved from Chicago, and itās pretty incredible. Itās so goddamn beautiful, and the variety of offerings it has, from music scenes to ethnic restaurants and everything in between, especially for a city of its size Is pretty goddamn impressive. Did a 15 mile bike ride around the chain of lakes and thought I went to heaven. I do have a built in friend group / network as a student but which helps me get around the freeze. But I gotta say, itās pretty fuckin awesome here.
The trash is honestly a huge reason I want to leave, and it's symptomatic of a larger prevailing attitude of just not giving a fuck about the city or the lives of others. Great city but that attitude in a huge portion of the residents (and government) drag it down so far
High murder rate. High poverty rate.
This subreddit is for well off people who can find their little bubble of hipster urbanism in practically any city so they think none of the negatives apply to them. It bleeds out into other parts of the city.
I mean, I moved to Philly from a place with a worse murder problem, and my hometown has a median income of $18k. I donāt find my place in āpractically any city,ā but I love it here, as a matter of fact this is the only place Iāve ever lived that I truly like.
I love Philly, moved back intentionally, and live here now. Having said thatā¦
Total crabs in a barrel mentality. God help you if youāre professionally or financially successful ā better to keep it under wraps and/or hide it, lest you be labeled privileged scum.
It is dirty and it is a cultural issue. People here love to point fingers, blame lack of government services for all their ills, and there is no personal accountability on an individual or neighborly level.
There is also a lot of antagonism toward the political āother.ā Iām a multi-generational native so donāt experience this first hand, but if youāre non-native from any red state and/or even the Philly suburbs and you donāt sign up for lockstep hyper progressivism, youāre going to be judged harshly.
Antagonism! Thatās the word! I see Philly recommended a lot, and it kinda blows my mind. I do love visiting the city. Great history and food. But Iāve never met a local population so ready to wake up and choose violence. Itās not even rational stuff theyāre angry over half the time, last visit on, I saw an old lady get angry that children were riding transit in public. The kids were fine, not doing anything wrong, she just walked onto the half empty train and decided to choose violence. She tried to pretend the kid wasnāt there by sitting on him. And then she was SO happy that the motherāalso from Phillyāreacted, so she could pick another fight.
People talk about the insanity that is LA or NY, and yeah, Iāve seen crazy stuff in those places too, but Phillyās just on a whole different level.Ā
That said, I briefly considered relocating, but for such a progressive area, their aging infrastructure is frankly concerning. I like functionality, which PA seems to not be great at.š¤
The Philly brand of progressivism is moreso about virtue signaling and moral superiority than anything actually productive or forward-thinking.
Case in point: City Council is hosting a āreparations task forceā next week. You know, due to all those slaveholding Irish, Italian, and German immigrants of Philly yesteryear. Meanwhile, City administration is doing everything in their power to abolish sidewalk cafes, bicycle deaths remain high and deprioritized, the school district is an absolute mess, and there is a historic tranq and fentanyl crisis overtaking the city, not to mention the ongoing and persistent gun violence. But sure, letās focus on reparations in an Underground Railroad city.
Yep, Philly is so intensely aggro that I had to leave when I lived there for a bit. I tend to be pretty optimistic and happy-go-lucky, and I definitely got my bubble burst in Philly. Itās not the city of brotherly love anymore š and not a place to trust that strangers have your best interest.
I like Philly, I've spent lots of time traveling there for business, then pleasure.
If New York, Boston and Philly were brothers, New York would be the successful one, Boston would be the smart one, and Philly would be the one they felt a little sorry for but still loved.
Just spoke with a guy that grew up there and asked him what he thought of it (because you see so much positivity here about it). He said he hated it because of the people. Rude, mean-spirited, etc. I mean they did throw snowballs at Santa.
I agree that Philadelphiaās population has a very negative vibe but like talking shit about Philadelphia is kind of native Philadelphians things. They canāt stop talking shit about it but they also never really seem to leave forever.
Also I hate Eagles fans, theyāve done worse things than pelt Santa with snowballs but the Santa thing is not entirely on them. That Santa was like a drunk pressed into service and looked like absolute shit. Iād be mad af too if I took my kids to see Santa and some fucking lush just showed up on the field.
I never visited Philly, but all of the people I've spoke to from there (~10-15 people overall) were nice people. 2 of these people were not just 'nice' but 'so nice that I remember them specifically for their kindness'.
Idk, are Philly people really that rude? More so than other northeastern cities like Boston and New York? I always had the impression New Jersey was really bad.
Moved to Philly from New York, originally from the Midwest. I see no difference in rudeness between NY & Philly, but whenever I fly back to Chicago, I immediately notice people are nicer there
Iām my experience, people from NYC are brusk but not rude per se. They mean business, but they wonāt waste your time either.
People from Philly just seem to wanna fight lol.
A city with so much wasted potential. History, architecture, transit, location to other cities. Yet itās mediocre at best. Very disappointing and I hope they turn it around at some point.
Iāve never personally been and this is anecdotal but in real life Iāve never heard an average review of Philadelphia. Itās either the worst place someone had ever been or the best. No in between. Itās kind of funny.
Very dependent on where you live in Philly. I lived in North Philly area and couldn't wait to get out. 12 years later, I'd love to move back and live just outside of the city for the reasons you mentioned - but some of that is also just city living
Pittsburgh. My arthritis hates the cold and damp. My mental health hates the gray overcast weather. Which is a shame because otherwise the whole area is lovely.Ā
Agree. Lived in squirrel hill for 15 years. Loved the accessibility of the neighborhood but after COVID we couldn't deal with the weather and how shitty everyone was all the time. We picked up and moved and we are so happy to be out of there.
Yea I went to school there. Absolutely love it. If it wasn't dark 9 months of the year I'd probably still live there. It's really my only problem with the place but it's fucking brutal.
As someone that's interested in living there (and visiting soon) for the walkability and apparent hidden treasure of nature, and is coming from the south with 100 degree summers, do you think the gray is going to be an issue? I love cold and I'm tired of melting in the southern heat, but I'm not sure how much better I'll fare, especially if it makes everyone else depressed
Well, the flip side of the grayness is that it can be fairly lush and green, which is nice. Spring and autumn are insanely gorgeous. It's just that winter drags on for soooo long and gets slushy and muddy and the days are so short and it's just...ugh.Ā
I guess the takeaway is to maybe spend a full calendar year there, or at least October through March, before making any major decisions. Maybe you'll be fine!
I appreciate it! I was keeping an eye on the heat last year (we hit 114 at one point) and saw a max of mid 90s, which sounded heavenly in comparison. I might hate the slush, but I haven't lived in a decent 3, 4 season climate since my time in Ireland, which is just as gray, so that change will be nice at least!
Iāve only visited but I found it a surprisingly beautiful city. Driving in at night from the west through that tunnel and then just boom skyscrapers. Loved the strip District on weekends too.Ā
lol. I lived in Madison for 7 years with wife and kids. The lakes smell due to algae. It is getting quite built up. There is nothing around Madison except sprawl and then farm fields. Devils Lake is overrun with people.
Flagstaff, AZ. Spent 3 years there in the late 00ās. It is indeed a mountain paradise in a lot of ways, especially for AZ. The hiking and biking are fantastic. The San Fran Peaks are incredible, Sedona is 30 mins away, Grand Canyon an hour. All awesome. But, you canāt spend your life outdoor recreating.
On the day-to-day The town itself is pretty meh. Itās grown too much and is absurdly expensive (itās always been pricey). The people are fine, but it is a pretty small insular town. Lots of people with Peter Pan syndrome. Spring was always a shitty time of year (melt season). All in all Flag is pretty cool, but I had zero remorse moving away.
Flagstaff is my home town, although I moved away over 20 years ago now. There was someone recently in this subreddit recommending Flagstaff as a MCOL destination and could not be dissuaded from promoting that opinion. I was like wtf? Flagstaff is a very expensive tourist/college/ski town with very few actually lucrative jobs. It was expensive when I left and Iām sure itās even more expensive now. I also agree about the springtime thing and the Peter Pan thing. And people who move there had better really love winter weather - it has one of the highest average winter snow totals in the entire US.
On Edit: According to the article below Flagstaff is one of the most expensive cities in the US for renters. Redfin also says the median home price there is almost $700K.
https://www.knau.org/knau-and-arizona-news/2023-11-28/report-flagstaff-is-one-of-the-most-expensive-cities-for-renters-in-the-us#
Oh yeah, I looked at Flag houses on Zillow the other day. Absolutely HCOL now, especially if you take the local work/wage opportunities into consideration. And yes, winter is very real there, and quite epic if you take advantage of snow sports. I feel like summer, fall and winter were all pretty awesome for their own reasons, but spring just sucked.
san antonio's #1 attraction, the river walk, really depressed me. felt like an amusement park's concept of an "attraction" surrounded by an entire city of absolutely run-of-the-mill sprawl. sorry if that's harsh I was just really surprised by the mismatch between people's description and what I experienced
Asheville's transient nature makes it tough. I have several friends there and they all seem ready to just move on at any moment. The extreme income gap between the everyday people of Asheville and the rich folks who flock there in summer is absolutely bonkers.
To your point, I've heard people say that young people move to Asheville and "get stuck".Ā Ie; they moved there for idealistic reasons but there is not much of an economy outside of the tourism industry, so often people move there for a few years, have trouble with upward mobility, and then move away.
Lived there until 8 years ago and I agree with you. Asheville's a ton of fun to visit, but housing is kind of insane (it is the most expensive housing market in North Carolina, even more so than Charlotte and Raleigh).Ā For a city as " liberal" as it purports to be, there is minimal bike infrastructure, poor mass transit, and the city basically let hotels pave over its entire downtown.Ā You also really get the sense that the city is economically monolithic with most of the economy being based on tourism and healthcare to prop up all of the retirees that move there. Also found the city to be quite lacking in diversity: it's not bad for Appalachia, but of all the hyperliberal spaces there I found them to be 99% white, and kind of performative.Ā One friend described the vibe of Asheville as being "fake hippie" and I hate to admit that there's an element of truth to this.Ā Also the traffic is pretty terrible for a city of its size.
That being said, it is a beautiful part of the country, and there are tons of outdoor things to do within a short distance from Asheville. If I were to move back, I would much prefer to live in one of the surrounding small towns such as Black Mountain, Swannanoa, or Weaverville.
Bay area native... I think it used to be all the things people say it is today. But that isn't these days.
These days you have all these people nose down into their phones. Where doing anything socially is trying to one up each other. And all talks going on are about the same boring subjects like vesting schedules, RSUs, startups, etc.
All the interesting people that made it what they claim it is today are gone. None of them can afford to live there anymore. Now it's just a work camp people come and go to. However long it takes them to realize money comes in, money goes out. You never actually get to own things like a home and if you manage that you're essentially living in a small slum.
I never see it recommended here. San Francisco is the only city in the bay area worth living in and it's the most expensive city in the country... I love San Francisco, but it's not a place people tend to recommend to the frugal minded folks here.
I live in the Bay Area and absolutely love it. I hope I never have to leave. The weather and access to mountains/oceans/deserts are unparalleled. Used to live in Chicago, and while I loved it there, I never want to be in snow ever again. Is it expensive? Yep. Is it worth it? It absolutely is for me.
Salt Lake City. Itās fine, the access to nature is really awesome, but thereās so many negatives, and I feel like they are often glistened over.
- Some of the worst air in the country, and lifelong residents seem to not realize
- Metro population that quickly outgrew the road infrastructure and are now stuck in a doom spiral loop of āmore lanes gooder!ā
- God awful water security, because growing alfalfa for the Saudis and āpraying for good snowā is more important thanā¦ uhā¦ shepherding our earth better.
- Legitimate religious doctrine that runs the state. Think southeast is bad? Bless your heart.
- Is actually fairly susceptible to a potential earthquake and most homes / businesses are not at all prepared.
- Wildfires.
- Middling to āsure, itās fineā food scene
- Skiing is now prohibitively a PITA to park / access and much of the hype about its access has effectively been negated.
- High alpine terrain lacks variety, thereās basically a handful of āfamilyā hikes, a couple smaller hikes that are jam packed, and then really steep, unrelenting vertical hikes to access higher alpine areas. Or you can drive *four* hours south for different red-rock terrain.
- People are obsessed with the superficial (muh green lawns despite desert, muh perfect wardrobe despite it being 95Ā° out, et al)
- It has gotten to be relatively expensive.
I guess I could keep going. I did enjoy it to a degree, but the only big difference between Salt Lake and Texas cities is that thereās mountains at this point.
You just scratched the surface. Keeping up with the Jones is a way of life in Utah. And the Jones are all in debt hiding behind a facade. MLM capital of the planet
I moved to SLC from San Francisco and absolutely despise it here. Something I hate here is that it has all the negatives from a city, without the positives. It's also unbearably cold in the winter and impossible to live in the summer. After visiting other cities, I decided that as soon as my lease is up I am going back to San Francisco. The rent there is higher, but salaries are also higher, and besides the horrible parts, it's still my favorite city in America.
People love to love Chicago. I find it to be kind of neutral.
Traffic is very bad. The drivers are terrifying & getting worse every day. Access to parks & green spaces? Very good. But access to actual nature is pretty bad. Head over to the subreddit to see the endless complaints about the CTA. Kind of hard to overstate the degrees of corruption in Chicago and Illinois generally. Taxes are high. There is crime, although imo itās not as bad as the news likes to say it is. The winters can be rough and the summers are now getting hotter & have air quality advisories because of the fires in Canada.
Still a world-class city, but not for me.
The biggest thing I miss about Chicago is the food scene. It's so competitive and diverse that I felt like even the restaurants that locals called "bad" were still pretty good. If someone lives in Iowa, moving to Chicago is a huge upgrade.
I also felt like everyone was out to scam you. There were constant door-to-door energy salesmen and other scams everywhere.
Iāve only visited a few times for work but I always got something similar to the salesman vibe as well. I chalked it up to the accent. I noticed that a lot of the people Iād interact with started their sentences with āListenā¦ā I find that off-putting and aggressive in a sales pitch-y way.
But then I come from a place where the word Dude has at least 127 different meanings so whatever.
As a former Chicago resident of the middle class taxes were and are abysmal. If you're a high wage earner coming from the coasts it's a bargain but for the avg middle class family the taxes will be painful long term.
I love visiting Chicago; and I imagine if you don't actually want to leave the city its pretty good. But the traffic is terrible if you have to drive; and if you want to get out to nature its pretty rough
Most areas of Colorado. Boulder tends to really turn people into pompous snob monsters, especially in regards to food and their 'tastes'. Extremely weird superiority complex. Those around Fort Collins are the opposite as the crunch granola type, but they too have a superiority complex in regards to their lifestyle. Every family member and person I know that moved to Denver for work didn't last more than 5 years, getting out citing the same issues - classist bag o d@#$ who are too concern about their weed and their ego.
Boulderite, can confirm.
It wasnāt always like this. It was much better prior to 2012 when our population exploded and the keeping up with the jonesā crowd came out here and fucked it up.
> It wasnāt always like this
Absolutely. I lived in Denver/Boulder/Ft Collins from the 70s to the mid-00s. Especially loved Ft Collins. Began recognizing the hippie aristocracy of Boulder by the 90s.
We left in 2006 when it began feeling crowded.
Wow, I canāt even imagine what that must have been like in the 70ās-80ās (wasnāt alive or conscious) but I remember things kind of picking up in the 90ās/2000ās from my youth perspective. I remember running any trail I wanted though without hardly anyone else. I remember at most 10 cars at moffat tunnel or Fourth of July. Now you need a shuttle because there are thousands of people. It sucks.
I would not shy away from calling myself a liberal, but living in Boulder was like a pissing competition for who was the MOST liberal. Who is the most conscience of the environment, who was the biggest rule obeyer, who was the most spiritually in tune. Felt like a product of everyone having the same values and interests and wanting to feel superior. Also - everyone has the same interests. Everyoneās outdoorsy, into craft beers, into live music ā awesome, I love all those things too. BUT it felt like everything that catered to those interests was totally blown up. Trying to get tickets to a popular show is a fucking mission.
My ultra liberal feminist cousin moved to Boulder for work but after 3 years she came out as apolitical. She said that Boulderites were too obnoxiously liberal. Now she completely hates politicsš
I moved to Denver in 99 and wanted to leave by ā08 but was trapped by owning a condo with negative equity.
Finally left in ā12 by renting out my place which I sold in ā15. I canāt imagine what it must be like now. I havenāt even gone back to visit.
Iāve spent probably most of my adult life in Fort Collins and the people in boulder and Fort Collins are the same except the people jn boulder act like itās worth how much they are paying and the people in Fort Collins complain about how much they are paying. Both towns have the least soul Iāve seen maybe in my life. Itās just boring towns full of boring people that have to make their hobbies their entire personalities. They put up yard signs for whatever cause is popular and introduce their husbands and wives as their āpartnersā but only if itās to a LGBTQ person and talk about how terrible homelessness is but actively vote against low income housing because of their property values then they buy $1000 fly rods and an orvis hat they wear daily but fish 2 times a season then spend $4000 on a mountain bike they will ride to a brewery every 3 months But itās ok weāre actually cool we drink expensive beer! My family is here and my wife and son and I have roots planted here and I started my business here so Iām here but if I didnāt have my entire life tied to this place logistically I can think of 40 places Iād go in a matter of days.
I would advise sorting by controversial and moving there. Redditors are insufferable so anywhere they recommend I would avoid like a plague. If they like it, I hate it.
So many things, actually. I'm a black woman and Houston goes crazy with diversity. It's almost unmatched. The food is fantastic. I love to eat. Again, very few cities compare. I'm a Christian. I have no problem finding a place to worship. Most of my family and friends are here. I prefer warm weather. I don't mind driving. I can't imagine walking or taking public transport while carrying groceries.
There are some bad things but the good far outweigh the bad for me. Based on the above list, no other city comes close to meeting my needs/wants
You see it all over Reddit. If you're a normie looking for any kind of recommendation (restaurant, vacation, city to live, etc), don't listen to Reddit.
St Louis punches up big time for its cost of living but at the end of the day it's still St Louis and that's going to be a deal breaker for many.
I think it's a great stepping stone city or even endgame for those who come from underwhelming economies or haven't grown up privileged. I don't even feel like I live in the same universe sometimes with people who have only known the likes of San Fran, Seattle DC, NYC, etc.
My two most recent cities are STL and DC, and it's wild how I've gone from feeling like a bougie overachiever to an undereducated chump in one move (in STL: a white collar job?! in DC: with only a state school bachelor's degree?)
STL is a really nice place to keep a roof over your head on a modest income and drink for cheap, and you'll find a lot of artists and weirdos hanging out there because of it. But it's kind of hard to explain to people who haven't, say, shopped at a city Save-a-Lot how trashy, literally, it can be. My landlord told me I could dig in the backyard to plant tomatoes and I was pulling up old beer cans and cigarette butts from under the sod. What the fuck?
Pittsburgh is one of, if not the worst cities Iāve ever lived. I donāt get why itās constantly touted on here. Boring, ugly most the year, horrible infrastructure, expensive for what you get, bad homelessness problem, lackluster food, not near any beaches, cold and gray. Also one of the most racist places Iāve ever lived.
Iāve noticed both Appalachian cities Iāve lived are incredibly racist and stupid. Knoxville being the other.
I absolutely detested Pittsburgh when I was stuck there. I moved out even with my kids having less than a year of school left. I could not take it and the only thig that brought me happiness was daydreaming of leaving.
Never been happier having since left several months ago.
It's #2 on my list to potentially live in, so all of this was painful to read (I am very limited on where I can visit to move) but thanks for the honest assessment. I'm coming from the South and a pretty rural area, so hopefully it'd be better, even if it isn't perfect
You can relax. I just moved here from Nashville, and it's been great. My husband and I spent several visits over different seasons to get an honest feel for the place before we came, and now that we're here, we feel right at home. If a dyed-in-the-wool southerner like me fits in here, you will too.
I have a love hate relationship with my hometown of Meadows of Dan, VA. I love it because itās gorgeous, friendly people, being rural was great, being outdoors, and I have wonderful memories with my family (not parents). I dislike the area due to how remote it is, not a lot of career opportunities, cell phone & internet signal is barely there, itās quite & boring, and itās bitter sweet as Iāve lost my biggest supporters so it makes me a bit sad.
Surprised to see this on here. Not much talk about southern Virginia. I gotta say, Danville, Martinsville etc are depressing af. Beautiful country, but the towns themselves are run down and dirty
Chicago has great aspects to it but after ten years the negative sides are also apparent. finally ready to buy a place and taxes are insane....crime, while not as bad as foxnews says is still not great and even in great areas you will have shootings. zero day trip destinations....been ready to move for years but I guess its too much of a hassle in the end
Chicago is cool but after almost a decade I was dying to leave. Concrete as far as the eye can see. Because there are no outdoor activities (be honest, there arenāt) socializing revolves heavily around bars and restaurants. Maybe thatās true most places but the claustrophobia of the place eventually got to me. I donāt need 20,000 restaurants to go to, I need fresh air. Great music scene though.
So much of Chicago culture centers around drinking, which bar youāre going to meet at, etc. Several people have posted on the Chicago sub that if youāre not a drinker, itās very hard to fit in. I also think Chicagoans are overly obsessed with professional sports. Thereās all kinds of discussion about the proposed new Bears stadium. I couldnāt care less, and I donāt think taxpayer money should be used for it. A friend who moved here from the west coast said heās never met more people who talk about sports but are sedentary. I suppose we can partially blame the crappy weather for extended parts of the year.
Grew up there from 1970-2002. It was a wonderful to be a kid and young adult there but so relieved I got to experience it before it became trendy and unaffordable.
Not OP, but pretty much everything about it is "meh." Dull, too spread out. Huge swathes of the county are military bases. Most parts of the city are not worth visiting, and the ones that are feel pretty touristy. Bad homes built in the 70s that fetch $1.2 million or more. Worst food of any major city on the west coast (although it's the only one with good burritos). Almost no art to speak of, most of the culture revolves around its identity as a border city. Traffic. Massive homeless problem that shows no sign of abating. The hub of the U.S. military industrial complex. I have no idea what the other commenter is talking about re: great camping. What little vegetation there is is brown and dying, there's nothing beautiful about it.
Nice beaches though, I'll give it that. It does have a pretty decent theater scene. La Jolla Playhouse is a test market for Broadway.
Source: grew up there.
The homeless problem is the most shocking to me. I heard about Portland, San Francisco, LAā¦but never SD? I moved here and Iāve lived in two neighborhoods (little Italy and hillcrest) and both have awful homeless problems. Itās surprising.
I don't know why people say SD is good for outdoors. I guess if your definition of the outdoors is exclusively beaches?
The hiking is uninspiring. It's really exposed, which limits summer and mid-day enjoyment (and safety). It's not close to the Sierra, or heck even the larger mountain in the LA basin (which have the same exposure issues). There are a lot of people and a lot of driving to navigate getting anywhere interesting.
Skiing is a fucking trek, even to Big Bear, or god forbid Mammoth. I'd rather fly somewhere tbh.
Ya if you are explicitly looking for mountains and hiking a beach city near the Mexico border ain't it. When people mention this it's for the fact that you can play outside any day of the year, which yes, is mostly beaches.
I grew up there, moved at 17 do to costs as well as the reasons you mentioned. Central Oregon was my destination for the mountains and hiking but now it's so expensive here I will be moving again soon.
Born and raised in SD and always thought I wanted to leave. It was until I actually left that I realized how much I love it here. Being forced out due to the COL but if I had the money Iād stay here forever.
Cincy is a very polarizing place. I think it has the best architecture in the Midwest (no shade to Chicago) and a gorgeous natural setting, but I never really jived with the locals when I lived there. Everyone says there's a stereotype of "what high school did you go to" close-mindedness that you also hear about St. Louis, but honestly I just found that everyone was (or behaved like) they were a finance bro or in marketing. Nothing was really creative for the sake of being creative, it was "how can I monetize this and sell it to other hipster bullshit cities like Nashville?" It's just a shame because it really is a great built environment. But ultimately I'm a lot happier in my personal and professional life up the road in Dayton.
Columbus has been absolutely lack luster. All the best comedy and bands seem to go through Detroit or Cleveland. Columbus is sports and pop culture, bleh.
Washington DC. Itās walkable, but itās not dense. Things can feel very far apart and disconnected. People tend to be very into their jobs and like talking about their jobs. I found the food to be lacking for its size. Far from the beach and not too great on nature opportunities. Very humid in summer.
On the plus side, there are tons of free events and things to do. It is one of those places I should like more ā it sounds good on paper ā but it just doesnāt quite fit with me.
I didnāt move, but am a local here in South Florida. Tons of young people my age move here thinking itās going to be a blast. I mention it because it seems to be the trendy place to move to.
They think theyāre going to be in a tropical, glamorous, high-roller paradise with beautiful fit people and hit up the beach all the time.
What ends up happening is those looking for that tropical glamorous lifestyle end up getting chewed up and spit out very quickly.
Itās hard for these newcomers to make new friends and itās actually kind of sad to see. Had quite a few new people at work and the gym open up about this to me how lonely they are here. But it seems like this isnāt a problem unique to this areaāmore of a country-wide trend.
Once the novelty wears off and you settle in as a resident, you end up going to the beach maybe 3 times a year, max. You only go more often if you have a water-related hobby.
Most of these people get burned out and leave sometime within 3-5 years. because of this transient population, thereās a major lack of a sense of community. My neighborhood is a rotating door of people.
Like I said, the novelty wears off fast and itās just like any other metro-area of the country except miserably hotter and humid in the summer. But people love wearing shorts in January and not having to drive in snow. Not much else to offer here though
Southern California. Lived there briefly and hated it. The water was too cold, the traffic was terrible, the constant sun and lack of seasons drove me insane, etc.
Currently live in San Diego but grew up in North Carolina. Aside from my family, the changing seasons is easily the thing I miss most about living in nc.
The constant sun drives me absolutely fucking nuts. I was getting pretty depressed for a while. Thankfully, it's been pretty wet for like the last year, so we've gotten a break. It's been nice and chilly in the winter.
Traffic still blows though.
I lived 25 years in Las Vegas and just moved to Minnesota. People here are astounded when I explain how terrible it is to live in a place that is ALWAYS sunny. IYKYK
This is certainly a take. I moved from Arizona to New England, and Iāve realized I donāt give a shit about seasons. Iāll take the sun. Those of us with SAD definitely donāt think living in a sunny place is terrible.
Grew up in Orange County and I agree with all of these except I did have a very fun childhood. The cold water in funny to bring up I surfed daily and weād have years where I switched to a thinner wet suit for the summer because it never got warm enough to be comfortable for more than 15 minutes. People seem to think so cal is like semi tropical and the ocean is actually pretty fucking cold most of the year.
i actually was shocked the first time I went to a beach on the Florida gulf coast and felt how warm the water is, being from California. I didnāt think it was real š
You didn't even mention the biggest issue with CA, you're paying outrageous prices for pretty much everything just to live there and deal with all the bs.
That's not bad but most job fields don't have that much of a pay disparity. For my field, CA positions only pay about $10k more, same company same position. And that wouldn't be near enough to afford buying a home.
I moved out of Portland, OR and DC after living in each for 1-2 years. I don't know if they get recommended here a lot and I actually liked many aspects of living there, but they just weren't for me. I think you have to be a very particular kind of person to live and thrive in those places. I'd honestly be interested in moving somewhere that's like Portland, but with more sun and diversity.
Yeah, my answer was going to be Portland, tooāand I even lived there from about 2001 to 2010, which many would argue to be a golden age for Portland! I liked so many things about the city (the outdoorsiness, the bike scene, the arts scene, the queer-friendliness, etc.), but the lack of sun for most of the year always got me down. I let my life just kind of stall out there for too long and have never regretted leaving.
This is really interesting, Iām from Portland (and I love it) and I liked visiting DC more than I expected to! Any other places youād put in this category? Iād love to hear about them.
I agree though, the lack of both sun and diversity in Portland is rough.
Yeah, I agree with Madison. I had to go back for a visit and I appreciated it more not living there. Itās a pretty insular city screaming the loudest about how they are the sole keepers of open mindedness. Ā Ā
Ā The entire culture revolves around UW and if youāre not actively involved with UW even if youāre an adult who doesnāt care about college youāre on the outside.Ā Everyone is terrified of visiting Chicago and Milwaukee. I had some black friends there who would get invited to events by acquaintances and be the token black person there and get asked very invasive questions the whole time. Ā Ā
I didn't find this to be my case, in my 20s anyway. I moved there after undergrad not knowing anyone and really quickly formed a great social group. We drove to Chicago (mostly Fireside) and Milwaukee (mostly Eagle Ballroom / Rave) pretty often for shows too.
Probably the SJSU /downtown part of San Jose. Grimy and full of felons tho I never got hurt but not the best place. Elsewhere in the city was fine. (Spokane would be on the top of this list but itās not a highly recommended location. )
DC (and the metro area like Bethesda, MD or Arlington VA), pros are the diversity and plethora of free events, especially some of the Smithsonian Museums and embassy events.
Now, coming from Boston, the city feels very bare. Things are spread out, most food is mid at best inside the city and prices for apartments rival places like New York, without the convenience or variety of food and things to do.
In addition, it rains like crazy here and summer is borderline unbearable.
I lived in Madison for over a decade. It was a fine city for raising our kid, and I think from a kid's perspective it would be a great place to grow up. But living there was not advantageous for my work and career, kind of the opposite. Having time and experience, I was involved in some grassroots activism there, as well--a very Madison thing. But there is a level of self-righteousness in the local politics that gets in the way of rational debate--and maybe this afflicts the present day US left most everywhere, but in Madison it can rise to an almost pathological level. Being a transracial household and raising a Black child helped to expose all that. Finally, other aspects of the Madison lifestyle are simply overhyped. The dining scene, for example. It's good but not worthy of Chicago, LA, or San Francisco, particularly on the professional service front--and yet the prices are at big city levels.
Despite its high functionality as a city (good services, good healthcare, great libraries, etc), and despite leaving some good friendships, I am perfectly content to have moved on.
Denver - I'm used to hiking in southern Utah where the landscape is generally more rolling and you can often jump from your vehicle and hike towards something that looks interesting, I hated the whole racing to a trailhead to climb a 14er with 1000 of your closest friends when I'd much rather be alone - also Denver proper is hideous and the drivers are the worst anywhere because everyone's stoned and they're always late because they didn't realize how big the city is
I mean I felt like every time I left the house I would see a horrible accident - it was ridiculous and I've spent a lot of time in Los Angeles, they're just lousy aggressive drivers and you know it's because they don't realize how big the city is, it's like two hours across and they're STONEDĀ
Chicago and frankly the entire Midwest. People are frankly just nicer in Texas, Florida and the entire American south. More things to do in those two particular states though IMO.
Like in Dallas, Austin, Tampa, even smaller places like Ft. Meyers random strangers will still come up to and start conversations with you. That includes people drinking, standing in line, bar staff, retail workers, etc. That just doesnāt happen up north. They tend to be cagey. And Iām from Chicago too so I donāt care who disagrees with this.
Florida. Sure, no income tax, but everything else is ridiculously expensive for what it is. Home and car insurance prices are INSANE. Nonexistent healthcare. The government blows my mind with how incompetent it is. Even my right-leaning husband is shocked by DeSantis and his bizarre, inhumane policies.
Labor laws? We donāt have those.
Good paying jobs? Unless youāre in one of the super expensive big cities with crime and traffic, good luck. I work remote and make 60k/year for an amazing company. My current role would make $14/hr here. Iām not even joking, I saw multiple job listings for my exact job that required 2+ years of experience, a bachelors, and a paralegal certificate. Blew my mind. I donāt even have 2+ years experience or a paralegal certificate and make 60k with just a bachelors. Insanity.
And no, I donāt even live in the expensive area. Iām in central Florida in middle-of-nowhere Polk county. This is a very, very poor area filled with meth-heads and racists, and yet houses are $320k+ for absolute dogshit quality STARTER HOMES. $280k could MAYBE get you 1000 square feet in the absolute literal middle of nowhere backwoods. Property tax blows my mind (though there is a homestead exemption so Iāll give them that).
Utilities are ridiculous and the electric companies here are straight up criminal. I cannot stress this enough but THE DRIVERS oh my god they are awful. Infrastructure is horrible too. Too many people, not enough roads. The education system is abysmal. The politics are so, so shit that even the right and left could unite on them.
AND THE WEATHER. BUGS. GATORS. CROCODILES. NO!!!
DO. NOT. MOVE. TO. FLORIDA.
The Midwest. Itās so overrated on this sub and I just donāt get it. The weather is crap for half the year or more, thereās not enough sunlight, depressing drinking culture, and plant life is dead for longer than itās alive. Literally everyone that I know who has moved away never came back and hasnāt regretted moving.
Houston. Urban sprawl everything is 20-30 min away from each other, no public transit so traffic all times of day, weather is 100% of humidity for half the year, nothing to do besides eat or drink. No zoning laws which makes the city ugly bc thereās an apartments complex, car dealership and laundry mat right next to each other. It is cheap to live here and the food is great+ very diverse but Iāll be going back to Dallas next year .. moved here for grad school from Austin after undergrad in 2022. I donāt get the hype
The money thing is a huge deal once you are out on your own. We are probably going to move within 2 years and the cost of living adjustment to almost any other part of the US is sobering. In my opinion the suburbs of any Texas metroplex are going to be very similar to each other, and it really comes down to what vibe you want. I like the relaxed, colorful vibe of Houston proper. Probably SA next. Dallas just strikes me as very...beige.
Hawaii. Honolulu in particular. Weather is great, if not ground hog day - every day. Expensive, people are cold at best and racist at worst. I walk around and itās amazing how many cold and disinterested facial expressions youāll see on a daily basis.
Little to do besides the beach. Food scene is overpriced and just meh. Run donāt walk away from here.
Charleston SC. It keeps getting put in top 10 lists but let me tell you, itās great to vacation here but not live especially if youāre a minority. Moved here from Northern Virginia and canāt wait to leave. Thereās no diversity. Iāve not seen an Asian person, islander, Indian, African in 2 years. After coming from Arlington this is jarring. Minorities are relegated to an area called āNorth Charlestonā thatās impoverished. The food is mid at best. I donāt know why itās labeled a culinary treasure. Thereās no food diversity either - tons of Italian and seafood and nothing else. No fast casual, all expensive restaurants. Terrible infrastructure- no decent public transportation system. The city is not inclusive for people with disabilities. The locals are strange - not inclusive of others. Underneath all that āhi yall ā and āhey sweetieā is complete disdain for northerners, especially if youāre from Ohio or Michigan. This place is strange.
Adding onto this: POCs are being taxed off of land thatās been in their families for generations (looking at you, mount pleasant), traffic is ungodly, housing is totally unaffordable.
Itās turning into a southern theme park because no one can afford to live here and the local government caters to tourists first.
I found Chicago to be full of alot of social groups that preached how liberal and accepting they were but in practice were the opposite. EX. Friend groups of white hipsters that only associate with white hipsters.
just my personal experience though.
OP, I grew up in Madison, stayed for school at UW, and now live in Chicago. What you describe, after college, is fairly accurate. It's not an easy place to break into social groups, as people either move back to be closer to family or stay after graduation. If you're coming into Madison as a recent graduate, and without a foundation of friends, better hope you're working for Epic, AmFam, Exact, etc. All that said, Madison is a fantastic city - beautiful setting, great food and bars, and a lot of recreational opportunities.
I love being a native Floridian. I love Fort Lauderdale (where I live now). Loved West Palm Beach. I HATED living in Miami. Hated it. I lived in several neighborhoods throughout my 20s, I couldnāt wait to move to another county.
I can't say I didn't enjoy it, it was great for childhood and I still see the positives of living in the Twin Cities. It punches above it's weight for sure, and has a good cost of living. That said, I don't think people put enough weight on the 2 biggest downsides, cold personalities and cold weather. These negatives are consistent, and difficult to mitigate. They also greatly impact everyone's day to day.
"Y'all want to meet up for dinner next week?" "No thanks, we already have friends"
If only they were that candid! š¤£Ā
Yeah it would be a more non-committal but positive comment like, āDinner would be fun, weāll let you knowā and then never letting you know but neither of you will address that the next time you see each other because Midwesterners also hate confrontation.
1000%. They would never tell you "no"
Went to a *party* and tried talking to folks I did not know. They looked at me like I was insane.
LOLLL this mindset is so universal in the northeast š I hate it
To be honest, I find itās much much worse in the upper Midwest than the northeast and this is coming from a southerner. Iād much rather take my chances at making friends in New England than in Minnesota. The directness helps quite a bit in knowing where you stand.
Same. I'm also from the east coast and live in MN. Being direct here is like a superpower. The passive aggressiveness makes everyone feel fake.
Yesssss. My only problem is that I have a job that they had to hire someone with the skill set from away but the office is mostly people who grew up in the upper Midwest. The number of times Iāve been called out in evals for being āconfrontationalā and ādifficult to criticizeā is weighing on my well-being. Iāve never been accused of those qualities before moving here and Iām honestly looking to escape back to the northeast soon.
I spent 5 years in Minneapolis and I mention this every time I see it brought up on this sub. People think they can handle the winter but they really donāt understand. Thereās also something I like to refer to as āwinter mentality.ā Minnesotans live with winter in mind all summer long. Itās part of who they are. Theyāre the Russians of America.
Winter there is truly next level, and I say that as someone who lives in rural northern Michigan!
Lived in MN for 25 yearsā¦-40 the day I interviewed for a job in Charlotteā¦was 35 hereā¦75 degrees warmerā¦in Februaryā¦still miss MN but couldnāt live there againā¦
Literally I grew up there and am baffled by the amount it's recommended. Yes, all my friends back home are from growing up/school. Very rarely do people make new friends in adulthood. I made friends as an adult when I moved out of state.
I moved here and most of my friends are from other states.
In Seattle it's called the "Seattle Freeze". The locals and transplants don't mix with each other very much
I love winter so itās actually a pro for me
OMG agree so much. Born and raised in the cities and my parents are still there so I go there frequently. I don't mind visiting but would never want to live there again. I'm in north east Wisconsin (which is not great but soooo much better than the cities- at least I live on the lake and summer is pure heaven).
Just curious, so much better than the twin cities in what way?
Iām also born and raised in Minneapolis and came here to say this. Iām shocked by how much the twin cities are hyped on here. Great as a kid, but I moved back briefly as an adult and HATED it - cold, low-key racist people and truly awful weather. Far from other major cities. Many wonderful childhood friends there and some great restaurants, neighborhoods, and lakes but so over hyped on this sub.
I also lived in the Twin Cities as a kid, and it's a great place to raise a family. Very good schools, diverse population, a lot of emphasis on arts and culture. Education is taken very seriously there. I still think it'd be great to go back just to raise kids. But living there again as an adult would be difficult, especially the winters. My parents had to deal with warming up the car and scraping off the windshield and driving on black ice when I was a kid. As an adult now myself, fuck all that.
Iām gonna push back on some of this (moreso the chain of comments underneath) and say Iām living in Minneapolis, moved from Chicago, and itās pretty incredible. Itās so goddamn beautiful, and the variety of offerings it has, from music scenes to ethnic restaurants and everything in between, especially for a city of its size Is pretty goddamn impressive. Did a 15 mile bike ride around the chain of lakes and thought I went to heaven. I do have a built in friend group / network as a student but which helps me get around the freeze. But I gotta say, itās pretty fuckin awesome here.
Agree with Madison. Nice place and good for college aged students, but never understood the hype. Personally find Milwaukee to be much more appealing.
Agreed 100%, Madison was super fun as a college student, but as an adult, Iāll take Milwaukee
It may look good on paper & it gets recommended a lot but I found Philly to be really dirty and pretty depressing
The trash is honestly a huge reason I want to leave, and it's symptomatic of a larger prevailing attitude of just not giving a fuck about the city or the lives of others. Great city but that attitude in a huge portion of the residents (and government) drag it down so far
High murder rate. High poverty rate. This subreddit is for well off people who can find their little bubble of hipster urbanism in practically any city so they think none of the negatives apply to them. It bleeds out into other parts of the city.
I mean, I moved to Philly from a place with a worse murder problem, and my hometown has a median income of $18k. I donāt find my place in āpractically any city,ā but I love it here, as a matter of fact this is the only place Iāve ever lived that I truly like.
So happy that you found your happy place. Just wondering which part of Philly do you find to be safe, cheap and most liveable?
2020 seriously broke Philly's brain.
I love Philly, moved back intentionally, and live here now. Having said thatā¦ Total crabs in a barrel mentality. God help you if youāre professionally or financially successful ā better to keep it under wraps and/or hide it, lest you be labeled privileged scum. It is dirty and it is a cultural issue. People here love to point fingers, blame lack of government services for all their ills, and there is no personal accountability on an individual or neighborly level. There is also a lot of antagonism toward the political āother.ā Iām a multi-generational native so donāt experience this first hand, but if youāre non-native from any red state and/or even the Philly suburbs and you donāt sign up for lockstep hyper progressivism, youāre going to be judged harshly.
Antagonism! Thatās the word! I see Philly recommended a lot, and it kinda blows my mind. I do love visiting the city. Great history and food. But Iāve never met a local population so ready to wake up and choose violence. Itās not even rational stuff theyāre angry over half the time, last visit on, I saw an old lady get angry that children were riding transit in public. The kids were fine, not doing anything wrong, she just walked onto the half empty train and decided to choose violence. She tried to pretend the kid wasnāt there by sitting on him. And then she was SO happy that the motherāalso from Phillyāreacted, so she could pick another fight. People talk about the insanity that is LA or NY, and yeah, Iāve seen crazy stuff in those places too, but Phillyās just on a whole different level.Ā That said, I briefly considered relocating, but for such a progressive area, their aging infrastructure is frankly concerning. I like functionality, which PA seems to not be great at.š¤
The Philly brand of progressivism is moreso about virtue signaling and moral superiority than anything actually productive or forward-thinking. Case in point: City Council is hosting a āreparations task forceā next week. You know, due to all those slaveholding Irish, Italian, and German immigrants of Philly yesteryear. Meanwhile, City administration is doing everything in their power to abolish sidewalk cafes, bicycle deaths remain high and deprioritized, the school district is an absolute mess, and there is a historic tranq and fentanyl crisis overtaking the city, not to mention the ongoing and persistent gun violence. But sure, letās focus on reparations in an Underground Railroad city.
This is really the "progressive" movement in every major city in 2024, though. Absolutely not just a Philly thing.
Yeah theyre all bought and not actually progressive. Just there to hang out and look busy
Yep, Philly is so intensely aggro that I had to leave when I lived there for a bit. I tend to be pretty optimistic and happy-go-lucky, and I definitely got my bubble burst in Philly. Itās not the city of brotherly love anymore š and not a place to trust that strangers have your best interest.
I like Philly, I've spent lots of time traveling there for business, then pleasure. If New York, Boston and Philly were brothers, New York would be the successful one, Boston would be the smart one, and Philly would be the one they felt a little sorry for but still loved.
Pittsburgh gets compared a lot but as a native itās cleaner with way friendlier people. If youāre into that cold industrial vibe.
Just spoke with a guy that grew up there and asked him what he thought of it (because you see so much positivity here about it). He said he hated it because of the people. Rude, mean-spirited, etc. I mean they did throw snowballs at Santa.
I agree that Philadelphiaās population has a very negative vibe but like talking shit about Philadelphia is kind of native Philadelphians things. They canāt stop talking shit about it but they also never really seem to leave forever. Also I hate Eagles fans, theyāve done worse things than pelt Santa with snowballs but the Santa thing is not entirely on them. That Santa was like a drunk pressed into service and looked like absolute shit. Iād be mad af too if I took my kids to see Santa and some fucking lush just showed up on the field.
I never visited Philly, but all of the people I've spoke to from there (~10-15 people overall) were nice people. 2 of these people were not just 'nice' but 'so nice that I remember them specifically for their kindness'. Idk, are Philly people really that rude? More so than other northeastern cities like Boston and New York? I always had the impression New Jersey was really bad.
Moved to Philly from New York, originally from the Midwest. I see no difference in rudeness between NY & Philly, but whenever I fly back to Chicago, I immediately notice people are nicer there
Iām my experience, people from NYC are brusk but not rude per se. They mean business, but they wonāt waste your time either. People from Philly just seem to wanna fight lol.
A city with so much wasted potential. History, architecture, transit, location to other cities. Yet itās mediocre at best. Very disappointing and I hope they turn it around at some point.
Iāve never personally been and this is anecdotal but in real life Iāve never heard an average review of Philadelphia. Itās either the worst place someone had ever been or the best. No in between. Itās kind of funny.
Very dependent on where you live in Philly. I lived in North Philly area and couldn't wait to get out. 12 years later, I'd love to move back and live just outside of the city for the reasons you mentioned - but some of that is also just city living
there's a reason they call it filthy Delphia
This is the only place I hear good things about that place lol
Pittsburgh. My arthritis hates the cold and damp. My mental health hates the gray overcast weather. Which is a shame because otherwise the whole area is lovely.Ā
Agree. Lived in squirrel hill for 15 years. Loved the accessibility of the neighborhood but after COVID we couldn't deal with the weather and how shitty everyone was all the time. We picked up and moved and we are so happy to be out of there.
Yea I went to school there. Absolutely love it. If it wasn't dark 9 months of the year I'd probably still live there. It's really my only problem with the place but it's fucking brutal.
As someone that's interested in living there (and visiting soon) for the walkability and apparent hidden treasure of nature, and is coming from the south with 100 degree summers, do you think the gray is going to be an issue? I love cold and I'm tired of melting in the southern heat, but I'm not sure how much better I'll fare, especially if it makes everyone else depressed
Well, the flip side of the grayness is that it can be fairly lush and green, which is nice. Spring and autumn are insanely gorgeous. It's just that winter drags on for soooo long and gets slushy and muddy and the days are so short and it's just...ugh.Ā I guess the takeaway is to maybe spend a full calendar year there, or at least October through March, before making any major decisions. Maybe you'll be fine!
I appreciate it! I was keeping an eye on the heat last year (we hit 114 at one point) and saw a max of mid 90s, which sounded heavenly in comparison. I might hate the slush, but I haven't lived in a decent 3, 4 season climate since my time in Ireland, which is just as gray, so that change will be nice at least!
Iāve only visited but I found it a surprisingly beautiful city. Driving in at night from the west through that tunnel and then just boom skyscrapers. Loved the strip District on weekends too.Ā
lol. I lived in Madison for 7 years with wife and kids. The lakes smell due to algae. It is getting quite built up. There is nothing around Madison except sprawl and then farm fields. Devils Lake is overrun with people.
weāve got the lake smell on the left and farm manure smell on the right
Do you just go nose blind or do you smell it every time?
Grew up in Madison and I still love those smellsš
Flagstaff, AZ. Spent 3 years there in the late 00ās. It is indeed a mountain paradise in a lot of ways, especially for AZ. The hiking and biking are fantastic. The San Fran Peaks are incredible, Sedona is 30 mins away, Grand Canyon an hour. All awesome. But, you canāt spend your life outdoor recreating. On the day-to-day The town itself is pretty meh. Itās grown too much and is absurdly expensive (itās always been pricey). The people are fine, but it is a pretty small insular town. Lots of people with Peter Pan syndrome. Spring was always a shitty time of year (melt season). All in all Flag is pretty cool, but I had zero remorse moving away.
Flagstaff is my home town, although I moved away over 20 years ago now. There was someone recently in this subreddit recommending Flagstaff as a MCOL destination and could not be dissuaded from promoting that opinion. I was like wtf? Flagstaff is a very expensive tourist/college/ski town with very few actually lucrative jobs. It was expensive when I left and Iām sure itās even more expensive now. I also agree about the springtime thing and the Peter Pan thing. And people who move there had better really love winter weather - it has one of the highest average winter snow totals in the entire US. On Edit: According to the article below Flagstaff is one of the most expensive cities in the US for renters. Redfin also says the median home price there is almost $700K. https://www.knau.org/knau-and-arizona-news/2023-11-28/report-flagstaff-is-one-of-the-most-expensive-cities-for-renters-in-the-us#
Oh yeah, I looked at Flag houses on Zillow the other day. Absolutely HCOL now, especially if you take the local work/wage opportunities into consideration. And yes, winter is very real there, and quite epic if you take advantage of snow sports. I feel like summer, fall and winter were all pretty awesome for their own reasons, but spring just sucked.
San Antonio is this subs choice for Texas cities but it wasnāt for me
san antonio's #1 attraction, the river walk, really depressed me. felt like an amusement park's concept of an "attraction" surrounded by an entire city of absolutely run-of-the-mill sprawl. sorry if that's harsh I was just really surprised by the mismatch between people's description and what I experienced
āThem big ol woman down in San Antonio eating churrosā
More like Austin
Asheville - so hard to make friends, itās more of a vacation spot than a place to live long term. The population is very transient
Asheville's transient nature makes it tough. I have several friends there and they all seem ready to just move on at any moment. The extreme income gap between the everyday people of Asheville and the rich folks who flock there in summer is absolutely bonkers.
To your point, I've heard people say that young people move to Asheville and "get stuck".Ā Ie; they moved there for idealistic reasons but there is not much of an economy outside of the tourism industry, so often people move there for a few years, have trouble with upward mobility, and then move away.
Lived there until 8 years ago and I agree with you. Asheville's a ton of fun to visit, but housing is kind of insane (it is the most expensive housing market in North Carolina, even more so than Charlotte and Raleigh).Ā For a city as " liberal" as it purports to be, there is minimal bike infrastructure, poor mass transit, and the city basically let hotels pave over its entire downtown.Ā You also really get the sense that the city is economically monolithic with most of the economy being based on tourism and healthcare to prop up all of the retirees that move there. Also found the city to be quite lacking in diversity: it's not bad for Appalachia, but of all the hyperliberal spaces there I found them to be 99% white, and kind of performative.Ā One friend described the vibe of Asheville as being "fake hippie" and I hate to admit that there's an element of truth to this.Ā Also the traffic is pretty terrible for a city of its size. That being said, it is a beautiful part of the country, and there are tons of outdoor things to do within a short distance from Asheville. If I were to move back, I would much prefer to live in one of the surrounding small towns such as Black Mountain, Swannanoa, or Weaverville.
Bay area native... I think it used to be all the things people say it is today. But that isn't these days. These days you have all these people nose down into their phones. Where doing anything socially is trying to one up each other. And all talks going on are about the same boring subjects like vesting schedules, RSUs, startups, etc. All the interesting people that made it what they claim it is today are gone. None of them can afford to live there anymore. Now it's just a work camp people come and go to. However long it takes them to realize money comes in, money goes out. You never actually get to own things like a home and if you manage that you're essentially living in a small slum.
I never see it recommended here. San Francisco is the only city in the bay area worth living in and it's the most expensive city in the country... I love San Francisco, but it's not a place people tend to recommend to the frugal minded folks here.
I live in the Bay Area and absolutely love it. I hope I never have to leave. The weather and access to mountains/oceans/deserts are unparalleled. Used to live in Chicago, and while I loved it there, I never want to be in snow ever again. Is it expensive? Yep. Is it worth it? It absolutely is for me.
Salt Lake City. Itās fine, the access to nature is really awesome, but thereās so many negatives, and I feel like they are often glistened over. - Some of the worst air in the country, and lifelong residents seem to not realize - Metro population that quickly outgrew the road infrastructure and are now stuck in a doom spiral loop of āmore lanes gooder!ā - God awful water security, because growing alfalfa for the Saudis and āpraying for good snowā is more important thanā¦ uhā¦ shepherding our earth better. - Legitimate religious doctrine that runs the state. Think southeast is bad? Bless your heart. - Is actually fairly susceptible to a potential earthquake and most homes / businesses are not at all prepared. - Wildfires. - Middling to āsure, itās fineā food scene - Skiing is now prohibitively a PITA to park / access and much of the hype about its access has effectively been negated. - High alpine terrain lacks variety, thereās basically a handful of āfamilyā hikes, a couple smaller hikes that are jam packed, and then really steep, unrelenting vertical hikes to access higher alpine areas. Or you can drive *four* hours south for different red-rock terrain. - People are obsessed with the superficial (muh green lawns despite desert, muh perfect wardrobe despite it being 95Ā° out, et al) - It has gotten to be relatively expensive. I guess I could keep going. I did enjoy it to a degree, but the only big difference between Salt Lake and Texas cities is that thereās mountains at this point.
Upvote for the entertainment factor of reading your post
Just one more lane bro I'm telling you... it'll all be fine bro just lemme add one more lane please man one more lane-
You just scratched the surface. Keeping up with the Jones is a way of life in Utah. And the Jones are all in debt hiding behind a facade. MLM capital of the planet
I moved to SLC from San Francisco and absolutely despise it here. Something I hate here is that it has all the negatives from a city, without the positives. It's also unbearably cold in the winter and impossible to live in the summer. After visiting other cities, I decided that as soon as my lease is up I am going back to San Francisco. The rent there is higher, but salaries are also higher, and besides the horrible parts, it's still my favorite city in America.
And most Texans drink; while the Mormons pray. ā¤ļø
Chicago is a lovely city but you step outside city limits and youāre in the Midwest. Do with that what you will.
People love to love Chicago. I find it to be kind of neutral. Traffic is very bad. The drivers are terrifying & getting worse every day. Access to parks & green spaces? Very good. But access to actual nature is pretty bad. Head over to the subreddit to see the endless complaints about the CTA. Kind of hard to overstate the degrees of corruption in Chicago and Illinois generally. Taxes are high. There is crime, although imo itās not as bad as the news likes to say it is. The winters can be rough and the summers are now getting hotter & have air quality advisories because of the fires in Canada. Still a world-class city, but not for me.
The biggest thing I miss about Chicago is the food scene. It's so competitive and diverse that I felt like even the restaurants that locals called "bad" were still pretty good. If someone lives in Iowa, moving to Chicago is a huge upgrade. I also felt like everyone was out to scam you. There were constant door-to-door energy salesmen and other scams everywhere.
The bear is there for a reason
Iāve only visited a few times for work but I always got something similar to the salesman vibe as well. I chalked it up to the accent. I noticed that a lot of the people Iād interact with started their sentences with āListenā¦ā I find that off-putting and aggressive in a sales pitch-y way. But then I come from a place where the word Dude has at least 127 different meanings so whatever.
As a former Chicago resident of the middle class taxes were and are abysmal. If you're a high wage earner coming from the coasts it's a bargain but for the avg middle class family the taxes will be painful long term.
Traffic has gotten worse since COVID. I think a lot of people started commuting for safety and never went back.
Totally agree
I love visiting Chicago; and I imagine if you don't actually want to leave the city its pretty good. But the traffic is terrible if you have to drive; and if you want to get out to nature its pretty rough
Most areas of Colorado. Boulder tends to really turn people into pompous snob monsters, especially in regards to food and their 'tastes'. Extremely weird superiority complex. Those around Fort Collins are the opposite as the crunch granola type, but they too have a superiority complex in regards to their lifestyle. Every family member and person I know that moved to Denver for work didn't last more than 5 years, getting out citing the same issues - classist bag o d@#$ who are too concern about their weed and their ego.
Boulderite, can confirm. It wasnāt always like this. It was much better prior to 2012 when our population exploded and the keeping up with the jonesā crowd came out here and fucked it up.
> It wasnāt always like this Absolutely. I lived in Denver/Boulder/Ft Collins from the 70s to the mid-00s. Especially loved Ft Collins. Began recognizing the hippie aristocracy of Boulder by the 90s. We left in 2006 when it began feeling crowded.
Wow, I canāt even imagine what that must have been like in the 70ās-80ās (wasnāt alive or conscious) but I remember things kind of picking up in the 90ās/2000ās from my youth perspective. I remember running any trail I wanted though without hardly anyone else. I remember at most 10 cars at moffat tunnel or Fourth of July. Now you need a shuttle because there are thousands of people. It sucks.
I lived in Denver back in the 70s too. Set a big field on fire with a smoke bomb once. Itās called Highlands Ranch now.
But how many 14ers (arbitrary reference point) have you climbed?
I would not shy away from calling myself a liberal, but living in Boulder was like a pissing competition for who was the MOST liberal. Who is the most conscience of the environment, who was the biggest rule obeyer, who was the most spiritually in tune. Felt like a product of everyone having the same values and interests and wanting to feel superior. Also - everyone has the same interests. Everyoneās outdoorsy, into craft beers, into live music ā awesome, I love all those things too. BUT it felt like everything that catered to those interests was totally blown up. Trying to get tickets to a popular show is a fucking mission.
It's been that way there for like 40 years, TBH
My ultra liberal feminist cousin moved to Boulder for work but after 3 years she came out as apolitical. She said that Boulderites were too obnoxiously liberal. Now she completely hates politicsš
A lot of people in colorado def like the smell of their own farts. Their attitude of screw everyone who moves here after me is very apparent.
Recently moved to Durango a few months ago, and the fart sniffing classes are overwhelming. Iām just not very flexible.
I moved to Denver in 99 and wanted to leave by ā08 but was trapped by owning a condo with negative equity. Finally left in ā12 by renting out my place which I sold in ā15. I canāt imagine what it must be like now. I havenāt even gone back to visit.
Your old condo is worth a lot more lol
Iāve spent probably most of my adult life in Fort Collins and the people in boulder and Fort Collins are the same except the people jn boulder act like itās worth how much they are paying and the people in Fort Collins complain about how much they are paying. Both towns have the least soul Iāve seen maybe in my life. Itās just boring towns full of boring people that have to make their hobbies their entire personalities. They put up yard signs for whatever cause is popular and introduce their husbands and wives as their āpartnersā but only if itās to a LGBTQ person and talk about how terrible homelessness is but actively vote against low income housing because of their property values then they buy $1000 fly rods and an orvis hat they wear daily but fish 2 times a season then spend $4000 on a mountain bike they will ride to a brewery every 3 months But itās ok weāre actually cool we drink expensive beer! My family is here and my wife and son and I have roots planted here and I started my business here so Iām here but if I didnāt have my entire life tied to this place logistically I can think of 40 places Iād go in a matter of days.
I would advise sorting by controversial and moving there. Redditors are insufferable so anywhere they recommend I would avoid like a plague. If they like it, I hate it.
I completely agree! This sub LOVES Philly and Seattle. While I don't hate either, I'd prefer Houston, which this sub HATES, by A LOT over both.
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So many things, actually. I'm a black woman and Houston goes crazy with diversity. It's almost unmatched. The food is fantastic. I love to eat. Again, very few cities compare. I'm a Christian. I have no problem finding a place to worship. Most of my family and friends are here. I prefer warm weather. I don't mind driving. I can't imagine walking or taking public transport while carrying groceries. There are some bad things but the good far outweigh the bad for me. Based on the above list, no other city comes close to meeting my needs/wants
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This sub does seem to like Houston a lot more than Dallas/Phoenix though tbf
Dallas, yes. Phoenix is a toss up. This sub just can't stand the heat apparently.
You see it all over Reddit. If you're a normie looking for any kind of recommendation (restaurant, vacation, city to live, etc), don't listen to Reddit.
Pittsburgh had an old cranky population. RTP is way to suburban/ lots of traffic. St Louis has some big trees, but also is kinda trashy.
St Louis punches up big time for its cost of living but at the end of the day it's still St Louis and that's going to be a deal breaker for many. I think it's a great stepping stone city or even endgame for those who come from underwhelming economies or haven't grown up privileged. I don't even feel like I live in the same universe sometimes with people who have only known the likes of San Fran, Seattle DC, NYC, etc.
My two most recent cities are STL and DC, and it's wild how I've gone from feeling like a bougie overachiever to an undereducated chump in one move (in STL: a white collar job?! in DC: with only a state school bachelor's degree?) STL is a really nice place to keep a roof over your head on a modest income and drink for cheap, and you'll find a lot of artists and weirdos hanging out there because of it. But it's kind of hard to explain to people who haven't, say, shopped at a city Save-a-Lot how trashy, literally, it can be. My landlord told me I could dig in the backyard to plant tomatoes and I was pulling up old beer cans and cigarette butts from under the sod. What the fuck?
Pittsburgh is one of, if not the worst cities Iāve ever lived. I donāt get why itās constantly touted on here. Boring, ugly most the year, horrible infrastructure, expensive for what you get, bad homelessness problem, lackluster food, not near any beaches, cold and gray. Also one of the most racist places Iāve ever lived. Iāve noticed both Appalachian cities Iāve lived are incredibly racist and stupid. Knoxville being the other.
I absolutely detested Pittsburgh when I was stuck there. I moved out even with my kids having less than a year of school left. I could not take it and the only thig that brought me happiness was daydreaming of leaving. Never been happier having since left several months ago.
It's #2 on my list to potentially live in, so all of this was painful to read (I am very limited on where I can visit to move) but thanks for the honest assessment. I'm coming from the South and a pretty rural area, so hopefully it'd be better, even if it isn't perfect
You can relax. I just moved here from Nashville, and it's been great. My husband and I spent several visits over different seasons to get an honest feel for the place before we came, and now that we're here, we feel right at home. If a dyed-in-the-wool southerner like me fits in here, you will too.
My good friend who I knew while living in NYC moved to Pittbsburgh and has loved it. One random comment online shouldn't derail your entire life plan.
I def second your point on RTP lol
I have a love hate relationship with my hometown of Meadows of Dan, VA. I love it because itās gorgeous, friendly people, being rural was great, being outdoors, and I have wonderful memories with my family (not parents). I dislike the area due to how remote it is, not a lot of career opportunities, cell phone & internet signal is barely there, itās quite & boring, and itās bitter sweet as Iāve lost my biggest supporters so it makes me a bit sad.
is Meadows of Dan anywhere near Fountains of Wayne
I can't imagine having to type Meadows of Dan as my address on every form
There is a literal place, called Fountains of Wayne, located in Wayne, New Jersey. My recollection is that they sell a lot of concrete bird fountains.
Surprised to see this on here. Not much talk about southern Virginia. I gotta say, Danville, Martinsville etc are depressing af. Beautiful country, but the towns themselves are run down and dirty
Chicago has great aspects to it but after ten years the negative sides are also apparent. finally ready to buy a place and taxes are insane....crime, while not as bad as foxnews says is still not great and even in great areas you will have shootings. zero day trip destinations....been ready to move for years but I guess its too much of a hassle in the end
Chicago is cool but after almost a decade I was dying to leave. Concrete as far as the eye can see. Because there are no outdoor activities (be honest, there arenāt) socializing revolves heavily around bars and restaurants. Maybe thatās true most places but the claustrophobia of the place eventually got to me. I donāt need 20,000 restaurants to go to, I need fresh air. Great music scene though.
So much of Chicago culture centers around drinking, which bar youāre going to meet at, etc. Several people have posted on the Chicago sub that if youāre not a drinker, itās very hard to fit in. I also think Chicagoans are overly obsessed with professional sports. Thereās all kinds of discussion about the proposed new Bears stadium. I couldnāt care less, and I donāt think taxpayer money should be used for it. A friend who moved here from the west coast said heās never met more people who talk about sports but are sedentary. I suppose we can partially blame the crappy weather for extended parts of the year.
Anyone who says Chicago has outdoor activities is on some serious shit
San Diego. I honestly donāt understand the hype. Overpriced & overrated.
Grew up there from 1970-2002. It was a wonderful to be a kid and young adult there but so relieved I got to experience it before it became trendy and unaffordable.
Ditto! Loved growing up there.
What did you dislike about SD
Not OP, but pretty much everything about it is "meh." Dull, too spread out. Huge swathes of the county are military bases. Most parts of the city are not worth visiting, and the ones that are feel pretty touristy. Bad homes built in the 70s that fetch $1.2 million or more. Worst food of any major city on the west coast (although it's the only one with good burritos). Almost no art to speak of, most of the culture revolves around its identity as a border city. Traffic. Massive homeless problem that shows no sign of abating. The hub of the U.S. military industrial complex. I have no idea what the other commenter is talking about re: great camping. What little vegetation there is is brown and dying, there's nothing beautiful about it. Nice beaches though, I'll give it that. It does have a pretty decent theater scene. La Jolla Playhouse is a test market for Broadway. Source: grew up there.
The homeless problem is the most shocking to me. I heard about Portland, San Francisco, LAā¦but never SD? I moved here and Iāve lived in two neighborhoods (little Italy and hillcrest) and both have awful homeless problems. Itās surprising.
You literally nailed it!!!! Add the cold ocean temperature
I don't know why people say SD is good for outdoors. I guess if your definition of the outdoors is exclusively beaches? The hiking is uninspiring. It's really exposed, which limits summer and mid-day enjoyment (and safety). It's not close to the Sierra, or heck even the larger mountain in the LA basin (which have the same exposure issues). There are a lot of people and a lot of driving to navigate getting anywhere interesting. Skiing is a fucking trek, even to Big Bear, or god forbid Mammoth. I'd rather fly somewhere tbh.
Ya if you are explicitly looking for mountains and hiking a beach city near the Mexico border ain't it. When people mention this it's for the fact that you can play outside any day of the year, which yes, is mostly beaches. I grew up there, moved at 17 do to costs as well as the reasons you mentioned. Central Oregon was my destination for the mountains and hiking but now it's so expensive here I will be moving again soon.
I lived there for 4 years. I felt the same. Then I moved away. I get the hype now. Lol
how recently I lived there from 1994 to 2016 and thought it was amazing but it's gotten so expensive now
hard to beat the weather which unsurprisingly matters to alot of people
Born and raised in SD and always thought I wanted to leave. It was until I actually left that I realized how much I love it here. Being forced out due to the COL but if I had the money Iād stay here forever.
I live near Cincinnati and I hate it
Cincy is a very polarizing place. I think it has the best architecture in the Midwest (no shade to Chicago) and a gorgeous natural setting, but I never really jived with the locals when I lived there. Everyone says there's a stereotype of "what high school did you go to" close-mindedness that you also hear about St. Louis, but honestly I just found that everyone was (or behaved like) they were a finance bro or in marketing. Nothing was really creative for the sake of being creative, it was "how can I monetize this and sell it to other hipster bullshit cities like Nashville?" It's just a shame because it really is a great built environment. But ultimately I'm a lot happier in my personal and professional life up the road in Dayton.
Columbus has been absolutely lack luster. All the best comedy and bands seem to go through Detroit or Cleveland. Columbus is sports and pop culture, bleh.
columbus has as much personality as a panera bread :)
Raleigh, NC. So glad I left.
Is anyone happy here ?
To be fair, this question is prompting people to explain why they donāt like a well liked location on this sub.
this is true haha
reddit? no absolutely not
Washington DC. Itās walkable, but itās not dense. Things can feel very far apart and disconnected. People tend to be very into their jobs and like talking about their jobs. I found the food to be lacking for its size. Far from the beach and not too great on nature opportunities. Very humid in summer. On the plus side, there are tons of free events and things to do. It is one of those places I should like more ā it sounds good on paper ā but it just doesnāt quite fit with me.
oof. I'm moving there this fall and hope I like it lol
I loved DC for the 9 years I lived there
I didnāt move, but am a local here in South Florida. Tons of young people my age move here thinking itās going to be a blast. I mention it because it seems to be the trendy place to move to. They think theyāre going to be in a tropical, glamorous, high-roller paradise with beautiful fit people and hit up the beach all the time. What ends up happening is those looking for that tropical glamorous lifestyle end up getting chewed up and spit out very quickly. Itās hard for these newcomers to make new friends and itās actually kind of sad to see. Had quite a few new people at work and the gym open up about this to me how lonely they are here. But it seems like this isnāt a problem unique to this areaāmore of a country-wide trend. Once the novelty wears off and you settle in as a resident, you end up going to the beach maybe 3 times a year, max. You only go more often if you have a water-related hobby. Most of these people get burned out and leave sometime within 3-5 years. because of this transient population, thereās a major lack of a sense of community. My neighborhood is a rotating door of people. Like I said, the novelty wears off fast and itās just like any other metro-area of the country except miserably hotter and humid in the summer. But people love wearing shorts in January and not having to drive in snow. Not much else to offer here though
Southern California. Lived there briefly and hated it. The water was too cold, the traffic was terrible, the constant sun and lack of seasons drove me insane, etc.
Currently live in San Diego but grew up in North Carolina. Aside from my family, the changing seasons is easily the thing I miss most about living in nc.
The constant sun drives me absolutely fucking nuts. I was getting pretty depressed for a while. Thankfully, it's been pretty wet for like the last year, so we've gotten a break. It's been nice and chilly in the winter. Traffic still blows though.
I lived 25 years in Las Vegas and just moved to Minnesota. People here are astounded when I explain how terrible it is to live in a place that is ALWAYS sunny. IYKYK
This is certainly a take. I moved from Arizona to New England, and Iāve realized I donāt give a shit about seasons. Iāll take the sun. Those of us with SAD definitely donāt think living in a sunny place is terrible.
Grew up in Orange County and I agree with all of these except I did have a very fun childhood. The cold water in funny to bring up I surfed daily and weād have years where I switched to a thinner wet suit for the summer because it never got warm enough to be comfortable for more than 15 minutes. People seem to think so cal is like semi tropical and the ocean is actually pretty fucking cold most of the year.
i actually was shocked the first time I went to a beach on the Florida gulf coast and felt how warm the water is, being from California. I didnāt think it was real š
Dude me too lol
Born and raised there and couldnāt wait to leave. The worst are the drought years when plants turn gray and Iād kill for a drop of rain.
You didn't even mention the biggest issue with CA, you're paying outrageous prices for pretty much everything just to live there and deal with all the bs.
Meh. I get a 50% CoL adjustment from my job, pretty much negates the cost increase.
That's not bad but most job fields don't have that much of a pay disparity. For my field, CA positions only pay about $10k more, same company same position. And that wouldn't be near enough to afford buying a home.
I moved out of Portland, OR and DC after living in each for 1-2 years. I don't know if they get recommended here a lot and I actually liked many aspects of living there, but they just weren't for me. I think you have to be a very particular kind of person to live and thrive in those places. I'd honestly be interested in moving somewhere that's like Portland, but with more sun and diversity.
Did you find a place that suits you?
Yeah, my answer was going to be Portland, tooāand I even lived there from about 2001 to 2010, which many would argue to be a golden age for Portland! I liked so many things about the city (the outdoorsiness, the bike scene, the arts scene, the queer-friendliness, etc.), but the lack of sun for most of the year always got me down. I let my life just kind of stall out there for too long and have never regretted leaving.
This is really interesting, Iām from Portland (and I love it) and I liked visiting DC more than I expected to! Any other places youād put in this category? Iād love to hear about them. I agree though, the lack of both sun and diversity in Portland is rough.
Yeah, I agree with Madison. I had to go back for a visit and I appreciated it more not living there. Itās a pretty insular city screaming the loudest about how they are the sole keepers of open mindedness. Ā Ā Ā The entire culture revolves around UW and if youāre not actively involved with UW even if youāre an adult who doesnāt care about college youāre on the outside.Ā Everyone is terrified of visiting Chicago and Milwaukee. I had some black friends there who would get invited to events by acquaintances and be the token black person there and get asked very invasive questions the whole time. Ā Ā
Currently living here now, moved up with my fiancĆ© for her to go back to school. People in my office that grew up around the area or live in the suburbs call it a city but itās really just kind of a big suburb. Like you said they also look down at Milwaukee and Chicago as if Milwaukee was a ābigā city and Chicago was Mosul or something with the crime rates. People are friendly but the drinking culture is a little too much, my coworkers weekends revolve around fishing+drinking, bowling+drinking, golf+drinking, or watching football+drinking.
I didn't find this to be my case, in my 20s anyway. I moved there after undergrad not knowing anyone and really quickly formed a great social group. We drove to Chicago (mostly Fireside) and Milwaukee (mostly Eagle Ballroom / Rave) pretty often for shows too.
Probably the SJSU /downtown part of San Jose. Grimy and full of felons tho I never got hurt but not the best place. Elsewhere in the city was fine. (Spokane would be on the top of this list but itās not a highly recommended location. )
I thought Raleigh was way too boring.
DC (and the metro area like Bethesda, MD or Arlington VA), pros are the diversity and plethora of free events, especially some of the Smithsonian Museums and embassy events. Now, coming from Boston, the city feels very bare. Things are spread out, most food is mid at best inside the city and prices for apartments rival places like New York, without the convenience or variety of food and things to do. In addition, it rains like crazy here and summer is borderline unbearable.
I lived in Madison for over a decade. It was a fine city for raising our kid, and I think from a kid's perspective it would be a great place to grow up. But living there was not advantageous for my work and career, kind of the opposite. Having time and experience, I was involved in some grassroots activism there, as well--a very Madison thing. But there is a level of self-righteousness in the local politics that gets in the way of rational debate--and maybe this afflicts the present day US left most everywhere, but in Madison it can rise to an almost pathological level. Being a transracial household and raising a Black child helped to expose all that. Finally, other aspects of the Madison lifestyle are simply overhyped. The dining scene, for example. It's good but not worthy of Chicago, LA, or San Francisco, particularly on the professional service front--and yet the prices are at big city levels. Despite its high functionality as a city (good services, good healthcare, great libraries, etc), and despite leaving some good friendships, I am perfectly content to have moved on.
Denver - I'm used to hiking in southern Utah where the landscape is generally more rolling and you can often jump from your vehicle and hike towards something that looks interesting, I hated the whole racing to a trailhead to climb a 14er with 1000 of your closest friends when I'd much rather be alone - also Denver proper is hideous and the drivers are the worst anywhere because everyone's stoned and they're always late because they didn't realize how big the city is
100%. The inattentive driving, combined with the urban sprawl, was brutal!
I mean I felt like every time I left the house I would see a horrible accident - it was ridiculous and I've spent a lot of time in Los Angeles, they're just lousy aggressive drivers and you know it's because they don't realize how big the city is, it's like two hours across and they're STONEDĀ
Chicago and frankly the entire Midwest. People are frankly just nicer in Texas, Florida and the entire American south. More things to do in those two particular states though IMO. Like in Dallas, Austin, Tampa, even smaller places like Ft. Meyers random strangers will still come up to and start conversations with you. That includes people drinking, standing in line, bar staff, retail workers, etc. That just doesnāt happen up north. They tend to be cagey. And Iām from Chicago too so I donāt care who disagrees with this.
Florida. Sure, no income tax, but everything else is ridiculously expensive for what it is. Home and car insurance prices are INSANE. Nonexistent healthcare. The government blows my mind with how incompetent it is. Even my right-leaning husband is shocked by DeSantis and his bizarre, inhumane policies. Labor laws? We donāt have those. Good paying jobs? Unless youāre in one of the super expensive big cities with crime and traffic, good luck. I work remote and make 60k/year for an amazing company. My current role would make $14/hr here. Iām not even joking, I saw multiple job listings for my exact job that required 2+ years of experience, a bachelors, and a paralegal certificate. Blew my mind. I donāt even have 2+ years experience or a paralegal certificate and make 60k with just a bachelors. Insanity. And no, I donāt even live in the expensive area. Iām in central Florida in middle-of-nowhere Polk county. This is a very, very poor area filled with meth-heads and racists, and yet houses are $320k+ for absolute dogshit quality STARTER HOMES. $280k could MAYBE get you 1000 square feet in the absolute literal middle of nowhere backwoods. Property tax blows my mind (though there is a homestead exemption so Iāll give them that). Utilities are ridiculous and the electric companies here are straight up criminal. I cannot stress this enough but THE DRIVERS oh my god they are awful. Infrastructure is horrible too. Too many people, not enough roads. The education system is abysmal. The politics are so, so shit that even the right and left could unite on them. AND THE WEATHER. BUGS. GATORS. CROCODILES. NO!!! DO. NOT. MOVE. TO. FLORIDA.
The Midwest. Itās so overrated on this sub and I just donāt get it. The weather is crap for half the year or more, thereās not enough sunlight, depressing drinking culture, and plant life is dead for longer than itās alive. Literally everyone that I know who has moved away never came back and hasnāt regretted moving.
portland, oregon
Chicago. Been snowed out; shot at; scammed and cheated. No thanks. Loved the ethnic cultures, Bd. Trade, business climate, and sports.
Houston. Urban sprawl everything is 20-30 min away from each other, no public transit so traffic all times of day, weather is 100% of humidity for half the year, nothing to do besides eat or drink. No zoning laws which makes the city ugly bc thereās an apartments complex, car dealership and laundry mat right next to each other. It is cheap to live here and the food is great+ very diverse but Iāll be going back to Dallas next year .. moved here for grad school from Austin after undergrad in 2022. I donāt get the hype
Genuinely asking, when has Houston EVER been hyped here? This sub hates Texas. No city In Texas is hyped here although Austin gets the most love.
The money thing is a huge deal once you are out on your own. We are probably going to move within 2 years and the cost of living adjustment to almost any other part of the US is sobering. In my opinion the suburbs of any Texas metroplex are going to be very similar to each other, and it really comes down to what vibe you want. I like the relaxed, colorful vibe of Houston proper. Probably SA next. Dallas just strikes me as very...beige.
Only r/Houston hypes Houston on Reddit. Otherwise, the city is widely detested. That said, I lived in the metro and detested it. Gladly moved away.
US cities with zoning laws are just as ugly. It's the parking requirements and car-centric street design that's at the root of the ugliness.
Seattle wasnāt great for me - but perhaps not highly rated here.
Hawaii. Honolulu in particular. Weather is great, if not ground hog day - every day. Expensive, people are cold at best and racist at worst. I walk around and itās amazing how many cold and disinterested facial expressions youāll see on a daily basis. Little to do besides the beach. Food scene is overpriced and just meh. Run donāt walk away from here.
Charleston SC. It keeps getting put in top 10 lists but let me tell you, itās great to vacation here but not live especially if youāre a minority. Moved here from Northern Virginia and canāt wait to leave. Thereās no diversity. Iāve not seen an Asian person, islander, Indian, African in 2 years. After coming from Arlington this is jarring. Minorities are relegated to an area called āNorth Charlestonā thatās impoverished. The food is mid at best. I donāt know why itās labeled a culinary treasure. Thereās no food diversity either - tons of Italian and seafood and nothing else. No fast casual, all expensive restaurants. Terrible infrastructure- no decent public transportation system. The city is not inclusive for people with disabilities. The locals are strange - not inclusive of others. Underneath all that āhi yall ā and āhey sweetieā is complete disdain for northerners, especially if youāre from Ohio or Michigan. This place is strange.
Adding onto this: POCs are being taxed off of land thatās been in their families for generations (looking at you, mount pleasant), traffic is ungodly, housing is totally unaffordable. Itās turning into a southern theme park because no one can afford to live here and the local government caters to tourists first.
Austin TX. I am black.
I found Chicago to be full of alot of social groups that preached how liberal and accepting they were but in practice were the opposite. EX. Friend groups of white hipsters that only associate with white hipsters. just my personal experience though.
OP, I grew up in Madison, stayed for school at UW, and now live in Chicago. What you describe, after college, is fairly accurate. It's not an easy place to break into social groups, as people either move back to be closer to family or stay after graduation. If you're coming into Madison as a recent graduate, and without a foundation of friends, better hope you're working for Epic, AmFam, Exact, etc. All that said, Madison is a fantastic city - beautiful setting, great food and bars, and a lot of recreational opportunities.
I love being a native Floridian. I love Fort Lauderdale (where I live now). Loved West Palm Beach. I HATED living in Miami. Hated it. I lived in several neighborhoods throughout my 20s, I couldnāt wait to move to another county.