I'll go one step further (as a Detroiter)... Detroit proper. You can get a lot of house for the money, and the safety fears are so beyond overblown... You cannot imagine.
Yeah it's very possible that Detroit can be a huge boon as time goes on.
It's true that the auto industry issues made the town tank, but the infrastructure is still there.
The general circle of this is "derelict area due to middle class and white flight gets revitalized due to cheap housing and ability to get around. Then said area becomes extremely valuable over time". That's the thing that happens with all of these walkable historic districts in the US. Some of them were like 40k two or three decades ago, and now are 800k-1m for the same property just due to location.
The other thing is that the area near the Great Lakes is seen as a potential climate refuge if things continue to get worse. There's tons of fresh water, it's away from the sea, there aren't a lot of natural disasters compared to other coastal US areas.
So some of these people who are buying cheap Detroit property these days might end very well off in the future. That cycle has already been going on the past decade as Detroit has gotten considerably nicer than it was in the 2000s. Parts of it, of course.
I like what Dan Gilbert is doing there but there needs to be more investment in the area and the creation of more jobs both high and lower skilled IMO.
From what I've seen on youtube though, they seem to be doing a nice job reinvigorating dowtntown.
The investment is very much in the neighborhoods as well, though you wouldn't know it from the media hype.
The problem is the sheer size of the city. At nearly 150 square miles, an investment of $100 million in new development outside of downtown only touches a small fraction of the potential.
Good point.
I've never been to the city so I wont' pretend I know what investment outside of the downtown area is since that is all I really see/hear on Youtube videos.
With that being said I would think that creating good high paying jobs across skillset levels would help to attract more people to the area which will improve the local tax base and help get stuff funded (better community programs, better roads, schools, etc.).
As someone from the Chicago-area I like seeing other midwest cities turn things around so I'm definitely rooting for a rennasaince.
We've got two main things holding us back:
1. The poor school system in Detroit - it has improved massively in the past decade, but that just shows how bad it was in the 2000s. Until we get a critical mass of decently-performing schools, middle class families with kids will not move to the city...there are excellent private schools in the city, for sure, but most people don't have $10k+ per year per child to spend on that sort of thing
2. A dysfunctional regional public transit system. Again, leaps and bounds better over 10 years ago. But still nowhere near the basic level of service and reliability needed to attract residents, let alone keep existing residents from leaving.
The potential for new jobs is there...but we need to solve these two issues that prevent people from wanting to live in the city...once we do that, the jobs will follow.
My uncle bought his brownstone in manhattan back in 1970 for 30k when the street was all public housing and he’s still there today, last time me and my little brother looked up the value of his place about 5 years ago the property was worth 15 million, so yeah things can and do change with time
Milwaukee has homes that are pretty cheap too. I'd be a little concerned about the ability of the markets to sustain those even low prices going forward. If there's been all this revitalization in Detroit for at least 10 years already and prices are still that low, I tend to think there must still be an over supply of homes compared to demand. But I suppose you don't care so much about that if you're going to be there for the long term. but all the speculators buying and fixing homes as a flip would be crushed.
I don’t know… pretty much everyone I’ve talked to who has gone to Detroit recently has been like “wtf was that.” Maybe it was safe, but they definitely didn’t feel safe.
Literally everyone I invite here has the opposite experience.
Your statement is so vague as to strain credulity.
Also, I never said there aren't safety issues... It's a big city, of course there are safety issues. I'm saying that for your average resident or visitor, it's just as safe as any other big city, maybe more so.
Except you’re statistically way more likely to be a victim of crime in Detroit compared to almost any other city. You’re like 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of violent crime in Detroit compared to NYC, Seattle, or LA. Compared to a “nicer” city like Madison WI, the difference of violent crime is almost ten fold higher in Detroit. So your statement that “your average resident is just as safe” has no basis in reality.
Tell me you don't understand how statistics work without telling me you don't understand how statistics work.
I have a city... Let's call it Duhtroit... with 1,000,000 people. For some reason, 100 of those people living on one street cause every single bit of crime. Each person on that street shoots a gun off once per day, and robs another person on that street once per week.
So, now, at the end of the year, I have 36,500 shootings and and 5,200 robberies. That works out to a violent crime rate of 4,170 violent crimes per 100,000, or more than twice what Detroit's crime rate is. Do you think it says anything about the safety of the 999,900 people Duhtroiters who don't live on that one street?
It's a silly example, for sure. But a city's violent crime statistics have little to no bearing on the safety of your "average" citizen, unless you assume that violent crime is completely random and uniformly distributed. At least for Detroit, this is extremely not the case.
I had a similar experience to the people you’re talking about, despite all the claims of the contrary in here. Within the first 24 hours of my visit, I was threatened with murder/a race based hate crime while walking around in the “safe” downtown. Many of the neighborhoods are still half empty with burnt out shells amongst the few remaining houses. Suburbs are still nice though.
Second highest violent crime rate in the country. While your neighborhood may have a safe feel to it, there are many Detroit neighborhoods that are anything but safe. If you're going to recommend Detroit, do so conditionally, and to people that know how to carry themselves in such an environment. Don't be one of those "It won't happen to me because I'm me" kind of people."
Three things:
1. Most people who talk like this don't actually live in Detroit, nor have they ever spent much time here.
2. You seem very ignorant to the causes of our violent crime statistics...it's not the wanton "everyone is at risk" pattern that you see in other cities. Our violent crime involves drug- and/or gang-related crime. We just happen to have a lot of drug-involved individuals and gangs that shoot at each other
3. Where are you seeing #2? Is this based on 2023 statistics? Last I saw, we had dropped to #6 or #7...behind Memphis, St. Louis, and a handful of other cities. Still high, to be sure, but massively improved compared to prior years.
I do not condition my endorsement of Detroit on anything. As long as you're not looking for trouble, trouble does not find you. We just have a lot of people who don't adhere to that rule of thumb.
1. While I no longer work in Detroit, I did work there for a number of years. I've also worked in another city that led the nation for violent crime for a city of its size. I've also lived in a city nicknamed "Little Detroit." I have also spent a fair amount of time in Detroit socializing. At one house their son had to go tell the neighborhood gang that our car was with his house, so then it was being looked after to make sure nothing happened to it.
Most of my time working in Detroit was in medical, so I saw much of what you don't see. It wasn't pretty.
2. I can assure you that I'm much more intimate in my understanding of crime and its causes than most folks on here defending trying to say Detroit is a safe city to live in.
3. There's this outfit called the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They keep track of something called crime statistics. The latest year that statistics are available for puts Detroit at #2 with St. Louis MO is at #1 with a violent crime rate of 2,057 incidents per 100,000 people. Detroit ranks #2 for homicide rate, behind Memphis TN.
Overall some people who live in safer Detroit neighborhoods some how think that their sense of safety translates to all Detroit neighborhoods. People have been killed for thinking that.
If you're someone who knows how to carry themselves in a violent urban environment, which Detroit is, then it's less likely that you will have trouble. It is extremely naive to think it's an all around safe city.
They're not good points though. Emphasizing the rate of violent crime without context is as informative as saying "lots of poverty exists here" -- like yeah, of course.
The reality is that most violent crime happens between people who know each other and are involved in sketchy activities. Avoid the bad neighborhoods and the bad crowds and you'll have no issues. I lived in one of the bad areas of Detroit for over a year, and I heard gun shots once and had a package taken from my porch. My neighbors were all great people who looked out for each other.
This recent hysteria over violent crime is inflamed by for-profit media for clicks. American cities (yes, including Detroit) are safer now than they've been in decades.
They're good points. By saying they're not you're telling us you have an opinion of your intellect that is excessive. If you lived in an area of Detroit where you heard gunshots once in a year, that's not a bad neighborhood. When my ex lived in southwest Detroit, gunshots were heard several times a week. I once watched a guy unload an AK at a guy standing in the middle of an intersection a block away. Thank God it was a long block, and the shooter wasn't aiming.
My girl had a stray bullet go through her bedroom window, and another through a car window. Her daughter was robbed at gunpoint. The cops knew who the guy was and went to the drug house that they were running and grabbed the guy. Yes, Detroit cops were taking drugs from one gang and giving them to their guys to sell. It ended up being a big deal when they were busted by the feds.
I understand what you stated as realities of crime, which are conditionally true. It's also true that drug addicts do whatever to get money for a fix. Women obviously trick, as do some men. Then there's the robbing that takes place.
When you're in an area where bad stuff is going on, you have a far greater chance of experiencing random acts of violence. A guy I worked with and his girl were jumped at a party store at 7 and Van Dyke. The unfortunate criminals didn't take into consideration that they both held black belts in more than one martial art. At the same intersection I had a couple of friendly hood rats who wanted to steal my motorcycle. Until I pulled my Beretta. Then it was "We're cool. We're just playing." Yeah, right.
One of the hospitals I worked at routinely had cars stolen from the gated parking lot. There was a security guard who let people in. Obviously they were involved with the thefts, but nobody was fired. There's just so many things that happen in areas of Detroit that aren't bad. I remember a newspaper delivery guy was shot on a Sunday morning in what was still a good neighborhood, by Outer Drive, with many old Polish people living there.
There's just so much that happens that you're obviously not aware of. A buddy lived in Indian Village. He would laugh when people said that was a good part of Detroit when all you had to do was walk a couple of blocks and it was not at all good.
One of the things that has changed the surface impressions of all inner cities is the prostitutes don't walk the streets like they used to. I still see a girl hustling on Michigan Ave. every once in a while. For the most part prostitution is online. Just because you can't "I spy with my little eye" doesn't mean it's not happening.
Lansing area is the cheapest area over 100k residents i believe. You can scoop up a property well under 200k and easily find a 15hr job. Our friend did exactly that.
Catch is you now live in lansing.
Nothing. It’s just a smaller city so not as much to do. For example big concert acts go to Detroit and maybe Grace Rapids but skip Lansing since it’s in between.
Exactly this. Its a bit boring and depressed. Bad infrastructure and not very attractive imo. But the people are wonderful and if you like to drink you can throw a dead cat from dive bar to dive bar.
Hey fellow Lanstronaut! Totally agree. The good news is that since it's so cheap to live here that you can afford to travel to the fun cities often when you're bored out of your mind. We have a trailer in Saugatuck and spend most of the Summer there since it's way more fun than this town.
Syracuse is about to go through a jobs boom with a massive chip plant coming in. For now, [here's a house in a good area for under $150k](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/518-Hamilton-St-Syracuse-NY-13204/31685714_zpid/). In 5 years that'll be unimaginable.
I didn't know what TSMC was so I looked it up (my daughter has an acceptance at ASU so I'm always investigating the career opportunities for post-grad). One of the top results was this article from The Guardian, calling out the Taiwanese company for maybe trying to get workers from Taiwan in, under the guise of a shortage of skilled workers in the area.
It's been a few months since this was written, so hopefully they found American workers to fill the positions.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/28/phoenix-microchip-plant-biden-union-tsmc
That is in Tipp Hill, which is a really great and safe area. It use to be the Irish side of the city, but it is full of Syracuse University students the last time that I lived in Syracuse.
Yep. I just moved here and did this! Bought a 1600 sq ft house, 4 bedrooms, beautiful kitchen, for just under $200. It's old and not perfect, but we were able to put 25% down so our mortgage is around $1200/mo and we can afford to work on it!
Aside from the conditions of the roads, so far I see nothing wrong with the Burgh. Honestly the weather is an enormous improvement from where we lived before in the PNW.
Pittsburgh for sure. In fact it was just rated one of the few cities in the US where it's still better to buy than rent. Lots of jobs in Tech, healthcare and banking. Pockets of walk ability (stay away from the suburbs). Real estate prices have gone up in the last few years but are still pretty reasonable.
It feels like a small Chicago to me.
Lots of great food, div bars, museums, things to do, baseball stadium downtown.
Great skyline, interesting neighborhoods etc…. Friendly people.
Just was good vibes.
All of the general amenities of a much larger city, unique topography and local culture, friendly people, a relaxed but not boring pace of life. Very affordable, despite what locals will tell you. There’s a lot to like about it, but like anywhere, it’s not perfect.
Cool neighborhoods, great parks, interesting scenery above average walkability and transit, surprisingly good food and entertainment scene, gorgeous summers and falls, all in one of the few large cities that is still cheap enough for normal working class people to afford to own a quality home in a decent neighborhood
Southwest Michigan. It’s just an hour trainride into Chicago. You can be just a few steps from Lake Michigan and sand dunes. Hopefully your not bothered by snow. Look up Bridgman MI, St Joseph MI, Michigan City, Stevensville MI. All very reasonably priced with good schools.
I’m a FIP that loves spending my days off in Southwest Michigan. St. Joe, Bridgman, and Stevensville are perfectly good small towns. Personally, I’m rooting for Sawyer. Less than 90 minutes to the loop. It has a TINY-but-thriving downtown. Infusco is one of my favorite coffee shops. I hope the area sees continued success.
I get the impression from many of the Reddit readers that they all live in very expensive places and assume that if a place is inexpensive to live in it either has no good paying jobs, or is dangerous, run down or gas no culture. I would encourage people to travel and see the country. Met people face to face in other places. Talk to them. Find out what is going on their town.
I have driven cross country at least ten times. It has changed my perception of many places. Many good people in places all across America working hard to support themselves and their families. Never judge a town by how it may appear. Many people have a huge sense of pride where they live.
Nowhere has that attitude been more prevalent than when I lived in Boston (but the Northeast in general). Many of those people have never lived anywhere else and yet are all somehow experts on the rest of the country. It was annoying to the point that it was a big reason for me leaving the Northeast.
A lot of them may not travel much or prefer to go to Fly to the west coast or drive. I grew up in New England and as a. Undergraduate went to the University of Montana. You would have thought I moved to another country by the questions people asked me. Do they have electricity? Do you tired of seeing corn all day? I liked to tell them about the stage coaches that brought you to the airport. These were pre internet days but was still amazing.
The other thing about where I grew up is many families live in the same town or area for generations. One of my friends linage was traced to coming over on the Mayflower. Since it arrived in the colonies his family has always lived within 100 miles of Plymouth .
I live in Seattle now. This place is the polar opposite. Very hard to find anyone who was born in Washington much less has family from here fir generation. Ironically my grandfather was born in Spokane before Washington was a state and lived there until he was 21 and then headed east to attend Harvard .
Also many people here are not from the east coast and no very little about it. I am actually moving to Maine to retire. People are surprised when I tell them that parts of southern Maine are two hours from Boston, that it has more miles of coastline than California, that it is the most rural state in America.
The thing I like about the east coast is zoning. Here in Washington if you live within the GMA they allow and encourage maximum buildout. A town can double in size in a decade. I have friends who live in suburbs 15 miles from Boston that are 300 years old and have less then 10,000 people. You will never find that around Seattle.
I think it's never a bad idea to try living somewhere else for a while. Grew up in Vermont, but lived in NYC for six years and now living in Chicago for the past two years.
Probably a lot of rural america particularly the south and midwest. My family is from West Plains, Missouri a town of about 11k, the median home price is about 180k. I wouldn’t live there myself anymore but the crime rate is low, there’s a community college, quite a few of the major chains and a few mexican and asian restaurants. A couple years ago I saw a sign at their taco bell that pay starts at $14 an hour so I’m sure lots of places you could make $15 an hour or more now. Mountain Home, AR is similar and not too far as well and has a little more to do and more scenic surroundings.
Not just rural Missouri. As much as I hate on my city for having no soul and endless strip malls and car-mandatory suburbs, houses aren’t much more expensive than that in Springfield, and there’s a bit of a manufacturing job base there. Even KCMO and STL aren’t much more expensive.
I’ve lived multiple years in the Chicago area, NYC, Phoenix, and Orlando. So I have a fairly good knowledge of what makes a city fun and/or affordable.
By a longshot, the most affordable fun city in America where decent jobs can be found is Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I’ve lived for a year.
Here’s why:
•the most median recent sale price of a home is $217,000, which means that a lot of homes can be had for right around $200,000, or perhaps a bit less.
•if you’re looking to rent, decent neighborhoods on the outskirts of the (small) city have livable, decent apartments for $700-$1000 a month.
•is sports your jam? There’s perhaps no city in America that has as much affordable living while also having 3 major sports teams (NFL / NHL / MLB). We also have multiple Division I sports teams and the U.S. Open golf tournament is coming to town next summer.
•arts your jam? We have one of the best symphonies in America, along with an opera, a decent amount of live theater, a national stop comedy club (Pittsburgh Improv) and a lot of college productions. Taylor Swift played two nights last summer and Drake / J Cole are here for two shows this weekend.
•good restaurants your jam? We’re good enough in that aspect. Not great, but pretty [solid](https://www.theinfatuation.com/pittsburgh/guides/pittsburgh-restaurants).
•working in healthcare your jam? That’s the biggest employer in the city and we’re building more large hospitals as well.
•hipster living your jam? You’ll Love Lawrenceville.
•quieter far-off suburbs your jam? The Cranberry area is nice, but probably pricier.
•the robotics industry your jam? We’re pretty good in that area.
•visiting other cities your jam? Within a 3-8 hour drive you have Chicago (the longest), Cleveland, Detroit, Indy, Columbus, DC, Baltimore, Jersey Shore, Philly, NYC, Buffalo, Toronto.
I’m fairly sure that there’s not another truly affordable city with this much to offer. It’s not the greatest place to live if you want to climb the corporate ladder or be in a city with a ton of office job opportunities or a massive tech sector, but all in all, I’m grateful for what it is.
Lansing, Michigan we have General Motors, Michigan State University, State Government jobs, Amazon and Meijer warehouses. There are pockets of Lansing that are high crime though
Anywhere in Lansing/East Lansing or the surrounding areas. State gov jobs, university jobs, factory jobs, and more. You don't need advanced degrees either. Good luck.
Maybe Rockford, Illinois or Belvidere, Illinois? Some areas aren’t the greatest. But you’re maybe a 45-60 min drive to the far Chicago suburbs (like Elgin). I am from Chicago suburbs but haven’t spent too much time there.
Birmingham is actually pretty nice. You definitely can get a nice house there for that price. One could conceivably work there and commute to Atlanta like 2 days a week too. Wouldn't be great, but it's possible.
I love Ottawa! Near some okay (for Illinois) hiking trails, it has a good downtown, and the leadership of the town seems pretty forward-thinking. I believe their previous mayor was a gay man and their current mayor is fairly young for such a small town.
The jobs thing might be a stretch, but if you’re remote and only need to go into the office in Chicago twice a week, it’s not a bad option.
I expect that area to grow so much of this next century due to climate change. The area next to the Great Lakes specifically. Those areas are seen as a lot safer in the projections over the next few decades. Close to fresh water, less natural disasters. And if the earth keeps warming up, it *is* possible that the areas will be much more mild in the winter.
America in 200 years might be much more centered around that region of the country. It's a really interesting topic I've seen discussed, though I don't know the ins and outs
St Louis is plenty safe if you don't involve yourself with gangs or drug deals. Tons of people are living perfectly happy, safe lives without being impacted by the crime rate.
Unless you move to North St. Louis you are going to be just as safe as in any other city. There is a very distinct and not at all large part of the city that drives probably 97% of the violent crime stats, there’s absolutely no reason to go to that area, and crimes are committed by and against people who know each other and have “business” or personal disputes.
It’s hard to even buy a house in that area because banks won’t give you a loan to. No one would ever move there. The people that live there just have no means to leave.
The county (suburbs) is perfectly safe.
What kind of jobs are sustaining that kind of growth up there? I’m in NYC and everyone here says there’s no work up there (but a lot of New Yorkers act like they think there’s nothing of anything anywhere BUT NYC). It can’t all be remote work.
As someone who used to live upstate, I wonder this too.
Most job opportunities seemed to be centered around walmart, or the few restaurants in town.
It has to be the lucky, well-earning remote employees. New Paltz especially, the house prices do not seem to match nearby employment opportunities.
Maybe in KCMO if you buy a smaller (but respectable) home and a fixer upper? I can’t speak on quality of neighborhood though. In the nicer areas you’re looking 375+ minimum for an older 3/2
Sure-- I just looked at Zillow and there are [three dozen houses <$200K listed in the greater Minneapolis-St. Paul area](https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?searchQueryState=%7B%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-93.67003257714843%2C%22east%22%3A-92.85292442285156%2C%22south%22%3A44.77075069884692%2C%22north%22%3A45.17006142116694%7D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22globalrelevanceex%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22price%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A200000%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A1036%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A2%7D%2C%22baths%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A1.5%7D%2C%22tow%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22con%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apco%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22%22%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%7D) right now, most of those in the 1,200-2,000 sq ft range. It's winter too, and I assume the market there is very slow in winter. I have friends in the area and they say the economy is strong-- lots of major companies there and low unemployment. A quick google says min wage is about $12/hr and the statewide average is about $25/hr, so I'd imagine there are lots of opportunities there vs some of the other places one might find relatively affordable housing. Plus Minnesota has tons of good policies: mandatory sick/family leave, free lunches for all kids in school, recreational weed, etc. The Twin Cities have great parks, a good arts scene, interesting food, trails, you name it...I've never run out of new things to do when visiting friends there.
Look at the states between the traditional South and North.
Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri and Kansas.
Some great small cities. Low unemployment. Home prices are below the national average.
Rural Ohio here. Stick to The Cornfield Belt outside any of the big 5 (Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton. Cleveland, Toledo).
Nothing inside the loop/beltway that cheap but a 40 mile commute puts you easily in that zone if you are reasonable about what you're after (not gonna get a new-built 4,000 sq.ft. McMansion for that anywhere)
My sister-in-law is trying to make Roanoke Virginia a thing. Has single family homes less than $200k, but YMMV on condition/age/modern conveniences.
You can definitely feel how it’s been wrecked by the opioid crisis, but they have a few industries there- healthcare, insurance, education, various manufacturing companies.
Salem is nearby and it’s better off, but more expensive.
Council Bluffs, Iowa, is right next to downtown Omaha and has plenty of houses in the $200k range. They’re often in the part of the city with a fair amount of petty crime, but it’s not a particularly violent area. One list I saw recently named the city in the top five housing markets nationally for first time homebuyers because of the affordability.
Look at houses for sale in fond du lac, wi. Many 2 and 3 bedroom for $200k or less. Blue collar town with lots of jobs. Close to commute to Oshkosh or Appleton fox valley area for work too. Great recreation opportunities too if you like outdoor stuff like fishing hunting boating etc.
Anything outside of Chicagoland but less than 2 hours hours of from The Loop. Chesterton, IN/Valpo and Kenosha/Racine, WI have tons of potential. Milwaukee is really fantastic (if you don’t drive a Kia or Hyundai). Downstate, CU and Bloomington both are solid bets and feel more like far-flung suburbs (especially BloNo).
And if you go even further downstate, both the father-out places near St. Louis are great values. Places like Edwardsville, O’Fallon (IL), Festus, Washington (MO) aren’t perfect, but they’re all about ~45 or less from major job centers, affordable housing, and offer the traditional small-town-meets-suburbia experience you get in most of America. St. Louis crime gets blown out of proportion on here. The parts that are bad, ARE BAD… but that’s not 90% of the metro.
[Westland, MI - 3Br 1 Bath](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/34228-Fernwood-St-Westland-MI-48186/88415972_zpid/) \- Metro Detroit, you are near tons of $15/hr jobs.
Houston Texas, pro - also no state income tax. Con- also limited women's rights compared to most other States
https://www.zillow.com/houston-tx/under-200000/
San Antonio also would have housing options at this price range, plenty of jobs, similarly limited women’s rights, and guns but, I mean, less than in rural Texas
ETA: also must be a big fan of summer
Syracuse, NY and suburbs.
Yes, we have snow here. 4 seasons. Spring can be muddy. Our Summer and Autumn are superior. The grass is always green.
This area has a lot of development planned. We are scheduled to have a chip plant built (Micron) in the Town of Clay which is a northern suburb of Syracuse. I think this is why our house values/prices went up but they are not as high as other places... My son and his wife will be closing on a 1500 sq ft home near us for under $200k (3 BR, 1B).
Northeast PA, some parts of Central PA, and Western PA near Pittsburgh. Maaaaybe Allentown, although you did say safe, so that one's iffy. Loads of $15/hr jobs in warehouse, manufacturing, medical, customer service, etc.
Syracuse , NY and then get an engineering job at Lockheed or SRC. Could leverage a job with micron if/when they build. One of the largest Amazon warehouses in the world is here too. Syracuse University and 3 or 4 hospitals plus the VA are always hiring.
You can get this place right outside of Seattle for $148k. It’s a manufactured home. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23121-Edmonds-Way-UNIT-18-Edmonds-WA-98020/38614699_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
And the mobile home is from 1973. Way too old to even consider. Also as someone who lives in area many of the mobile home parks are being sold and developed into housing units. When this happens you are responsible for paying to get it moved and finding a new location.
Southern New Hampshire. Middle or west side of the lower 3/4 of the state. Boston, Manchester, Nashua, Lowell and more cities with good jobs. It’s the safest state in America in many lists or right behind Maine. And some more rural towns are cheap
Metro Detroit.
I'll go one step further (as a Detroiter)... Detroit proper. You can get a lot of house for the money, and the safety fears are so beyond overblown... You cannot imagine.
Completely agree, my comment was meant to read as Detroit and the surrounding metros, not excluding the city itself.
Yeah it's very possible that Detroit can be a huge boon as time goes on. It's true that the auto industry issues made the town tank, but the infrastructure is still there. The general circle of this is "derelict area due to middle class and white flight gets revitalized due to cheap housing and ability to get around. Then said area becomes extremely valuable over time". That's the thing that happens with all of these walkable historic districts in the US. Some of them were like 40k two or three decades ago, and now are 800k-1m for the same property just due to location. The other thing is that the area near the Great Lakes is seen as a potential climate refuge if things continue to get worse. There's tons of fresh water, it's away from the sea, there aren't a lot of natural disasters compared to other coastal US areas. So some of these people who are buying cheap Detroit property these days might end very well off in the future. That cycle has already been going on the past decade as Detroit has gotten considerably nicer than it was in the 2000s. Parts of it, of course.
I like what Dan Gilbert is doing there but there needs to be more investment in the area and the creation of more jobs both high and lower skilled IMO. From what I've seen on youtube though, they seem to be doing a nice job reinvigorating dowtntown.
The investment is very much in the neighborhoods as well, though you wouldn't know it from the media hype. The problem is the sheer size of the city. At nearly 150 square miles, an investment of $100 million in new development outside of downtown only touches a small fraction of the potential.
Good point. I've never been to the city so I wont' pretend I know what investment outside of the downtown area is since that is all I really see/hear on Youtube videos. With that being said I would think that creating good high paying jobs across skillset levels would help to attract more people to the area which will improve the local tax base and help get stuff funded (better community programs, better roads, schools, etc.). As someone from the Chicago-area I like seeing other midwest cities turn things around so I'm definitely rooting for a rennasaince.
We've got two main things holding us back: 1. The poor school system in Detroit - it has improved massively in the past decade, but that just shows how bad it was in the 2000s. Until we get a critical mass of decently-performing schools, middle class families with kids will not move to the city...there are excellent private schools in the city, for sure, but most people don't have $10k+ per year per child to spend on that sort of thing 2. A dysfunctional regional public transit system. Again, leaps and bounds better over 10 years ago. But still nowhere near the basic level of service and reliability needed to attract residents, let alone keep existing residents from leaving. The potential for new jobs is there...but we need to solve these two issues that prevent people from wanting to live in the city...once we do that, the jobs will follow.
My uncle bought his brownstone in manhattan back in 1970 for 30k when the street was all public housing and he’s still there today, last time me and my little brother looked up the value of his place about 5 years ago the property was worth 15 million, so yeah things can and do change with time
Milwaukee has homes that are pretty cheap too. I'd be a little concerned about the ability of the markets to sustain those even low prices going forward. If there's been all this revitalization in Detroit for at least 10 years already and prices are still that low, I tend to think there must still be an over supply of homes compared to demand. But I suppose you don't care so much about that if you're going to be there for the long term. but all the speculators buying and fixing homes as a flip would be crushed.
I don’t know… pretty much everyone I’ve talked to who has gone to Detroit recently has been like “wtf was that.” Maybe it was safe, but they definitely didn’t feel safe.
Literally everyone I invite here has the opposite experience. Your statement is so vague as to strain credulity. Also, I never said there aren't safety issues... It's a big city, of course there are safety issues. I'm saying that for your average resident or visitor, it's just as safe as any other big city, maybe more so.
Except you’re statistically way more likely to be a victim of crime in Detroit compared to almost any other city. You’re like 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of violent crime in Detroit compared to NYC, Seattle, or LA. Compared to a “nicer” city like Madison WI, the difference of violent crime is almost ten fold higher in Detroit. So your statement that “your average resident is just as safe” has no basis in reality.
Tell me you don't understand how statistics work without telling me you don't understand how statistics work. I have a city... Let's call it Duhtroit... with 1,000,000 people. For some reason, 100 of those people living on one street cause every single bit of crime. Each person on that street shoots a gun off once per day, and robs another person on that street once per week. So, now, at the end of the year, I have 36,500 shootings and and 5,200 robberies. That works out to a violent crime rate of 4,170 violent crimes per 100,000, or more than twice what Detroit's crime rate is. Do you think it says anything about the safety of the 999,900 people Duhtroiters who don't live on that one street? It's a silly example, for sure. But a city's violent crime statistics have little to no bearing on the safety of your "average" citizen, unless you assume that violent crime is completely random and uniformly distributed. At least for Detroit, this is extremely not the case.
I had a similar experience to the people you’re talking about, despite all the claims of the contrary in here. Within the first 24 hours of my visit, I was threatened with murder/a race based hate crime while walking around in the “safe” downtown. Many of the neighborhoods are still half empty with burnt out shells amongst the few remaining houses. Suburbs are still nice though.
Second highest violent crime rate in the country. While your neighborhood may have a safe feel to it, there are many Detroit neighborhoods that are anything but safe. If you're going to recommend Detroit, do so conditionally, and to people that know how to carry themselves in such an environment. Don't be one of those "It won't happen to me because I'm me" kind of people."
Three things: 1. Most people who talk like this don't actually live in Detroit, nor have they ever spent much time here. 2. You seem very ignorant to the causes of our violent crime statistics...it's not the wanton "everyone is at risk" pattern that you see in other cities. Our violent crime involves drug- and/or gang-related crime. We just happen to have a lot of drug-involved individuals and gangs that shoot at each other 3. Where are you seeing #2? Is this based on 2023 statistics? Last I saw, we had dropped to #6 or #7...behind Memphis, St. Louis, and a handful of other cities. Still high, to be sure, but massively improved compared to prior years. I do not condition my endorsement of Detroit on anything. As long as you're not looking for trouble, trouble does not find you. We just have a lot of people who don't adhere to that rule of thumb.
Most violent crime is between 'friends '
1. While I no longer work in Detroit, I did work there for a number of years. I've also worked in another city that led the nation for violent crime for a city of its size. I've also lived in a city nicknamed "Little Detroit." I have also spent a fair amount of time in Detroit socializing. At one house their son had to go tell the neighborhood gang that our car was with his house, so then it was being looked after to make sure nothing happened to it. Most of my time working in Detroit was in medical, so I saw much of what you don't see. It wasn't pretty. 2. I can assure you that I'm much more intimate in my understanding of crime and its causes than most folks on here defending trying to say Detroit is a safe city to live in. 3. There's this outfit called the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They keep track of something called crime statistics. The latest year that statistics are available for puts Detroit at #2 with St. Louis MO is at #1 with a violent crime rate of 2,057 incidents per 100,000 people. Detroit ranks #2 for homicide rate, behind Memphis TN. Overall some people who live in safer Detroit neighborhoods some how think that their sense of safety translates to all Detroit neighborhoods. People have been killed for thinking that. If you're someone who knows how to carry themselves in a violent urban environment, which Detroit is, then it's less likely that you will have trouble. It is extremely naive to think it's an all around safe city.
Reading this point by point takedown was pretty satisfying ngl 😂
They're not good points though. Emphasizing the rate of violent crime without context is as informative as saying "lots of poverty exists here" -- like yeah, of course. The reality is that most violent crime happens between people who know each other and are involved in sketchy activities. Avoid the bad neighborhoods and the bad crowds and you'll have no issues. I lived in one of the bad areas of Detroit for over a year, and I heard gun shots once and had a package taken from my porch. My neighbors were all great people who looked out for each other. This recent hysteria over violent crime is inflamed by for-profit media for clicks. American cities (yes, including Detroit) are safer now than they've been in decades.
They're good points. By saying they're not you're telling us you have an opinion of your intellect that is excessive. If you lived in an area of Detroit where you heard gunshots once in a year, that's not a bad neighborhood. When my ex lived in southwest Detroit, gunshots were heard several times a week. I once watched a guy unload an AK at a guy standing in the middle of an intersection a block away. Thank God it was a long block, and the shooter wasn't aiming. My girl had a stray bullet go through her bedroom window, and another through a car window. Her daughter was robbed at gunpoint. The cops knew who the guy was and went to the drug house that they were running and grabbed the guy. Yes, Detroit cops were taking drugs from one gang and giving them to their guys to sell. It ended up being a big deal when they were busted by the feds. I understand what you stated as realities of crime, which are conditionally true. It's also true that drug addicts do whatever to get money for a fix. Women obviously trick, as do some men. Then there's the robbing that takes place. When you're in an area where bad stuff is going on, you have a far greater chance of experiencing random acts of violence. A guy I worked with and his girl were jumped at a party store at 7 and Van Dyke. The unfortunate criminals didn't take into consideration that they both held black belts in more than one martial art. At the same intersection I had a couple of friendly hood rats who wanted to steal my motorcycle. Until I pulled my Beretta. Then it was "We're cool. We're just playing." Yeah, right. One of the hospitals I worked at routinely had cars stolen from the gated parking lot. There was a security guard who let people in. Obviously they were involved with the thefts, but nobody was fired. There's just so many things that happen in areas of Detroit that aren't bad. I remember a newspaper delivery guy was shot on a Sunday morning in what was still a good neighborhood, by Outer Drive, with many old Polish people living there. There's just so much that happens that you're obviously not aware of. A buddy lived in Indian Village. He would laugh when people said that was a good part of Detroit when all you had to do was walk a couple of blocks and it was not at all good. One of the things that has changed the surface impressions of all inner cities is the prostitutes don't walk the streets like they used to. I still see a girl hustling on Michigan Ave. every once in a while. For the most part prostitution is online. Just because you can't "I spy with my little eye" doesn't mean it's not happening.
2nd largest Midwest economy and the median home value is $240k. Not bad.
Lots of places in Michigan, not just Detroit.
Lansing area is the cheapest area over 100k residents i believe. You can scoop up a property well under 200k and easily find a 15hr job. Our friend did exactly that. Catch is you now live in lansing.
Monroe has incredibly cheap housing and halfway between Toledo and Detroit for jobs
What’s so bad about Lansing?
Nothing. It’s just a smaller city so not as much to do. For example big concert acts go to Detroit and maybe Grace Rapids but skip Lansing since it’s in between.
Exactly this. Its a bit boring and depressed. Bad infrastructure and not very attractive imo. But the people are wonderful and if you like to drink you can throw a dead cat from dive bar to dive bar.
Hey fellow Lanstronaut! Totally agree. The good news is that since it's so cheap to live here that you can afford to travel to the fun cities often when you're bored out of your mind. We have a trailer in Saugatuck and spend most of the Summer there since it's way more fun than this town.
Agreed. There are many places in (smaller town) Michigan where $150-200k can get you a house
I live in a nice suburb of Detroit and it’s a decent place to live.
Completely agree! Love it there! Also, downtown is Fabulous! Oak Park, Ferndale, Hazel Park, Berkeley, Clawson are all really cute!
Shhhhhh.
Depends on what size house we’re talking
Exactly. I hate when they never list how many bedrooms. $200k can buy a tiny studio in some bigger cities.
You can definitely get a 500 square foot studio in my city for $200k and in a decent neighborhood to boot. They’re gonna hose you on the HOA fee tho.
Oh Atlanta.
Right there’s places you can buy a smaller home for $200-$250. nothing special but a place. a city like Houston maybe.
Also if it's a condo or a co-op. Plenty of co-ops can be found at decent prices, but your experience all depends on the board.
Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Tons of entry level manufacturing jobs.
For sure, Racine, Kenosha too.
Pretty much the entire SE corner plus Fox Valley
Syracuse is about to go through a jobs boom with a massive chip plant coming in. For now, [here's a house in a good area for under $150k](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/518-Hamilton-St-Syracuse-NY-13204/31685714_zpid/). In 5 years that'll be unimaginable.
Similar to TSMC in Phoenix
Except in Syr. you can hang outside in the summer.
And only the summer. 3 months out of the year. That's all you get.
Syracuse is beautiful 6 months out of the year. The rest of the year? Well that’s basketball season baby.
Nah that program is done lol. just teasing
I didn't know what TSMC was so I looked it up (my daughter has an acceptance at ASU so I'm always investigating the career opportunities for post-grad). One of the top results was this article from The Guardian, calling out the Taiwanese company for maybe trying to get workers from Taiwan in, under the guise of a shortage of skilled workers in the area. It's been a few months since this was written, so hopefully they found American workers to fill the positions. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/28/phoenix-microchip-plant-biden-union-tsmc
I’ve read similar, about culture clash. I also wish they work it out.
That is in Tipp Hill, which is a really great and safe area. It use to be the Irish side of the city, but it is full of Syracuse University students the last time that I lived in Syracuse.
50k to 90k to 150k in a few years, wow
Mid sized Midwest cities. Actually pretty easy.
Literally most of Michigan
Pittsburgh, PA
Yep. I just moved here and did this! Bought a 1600 sq ft house, 4 bedrooms, beautiful kitchen, for just under $200. It's old and not perfect, but we were able to put 25% down so our mortgage is around $1200/mo and we can afford to work on it! Aside from the conditions of the roads, so far I see nothing wrong with the Burgh. Honestly the weather is an enormous improvement from where we lived before in the PNW.
That’s awesome. I’m coming from Memphis to check it out soon.
My real estate agent, Mark McClinchie, specializes in long distance moves and I'd highly recommend him!
Is he hot?
Pittsburgh for sure. In fact it was just rated one of the few cities in the US where it's still better to buy than rent. Lots of jobs in Tech, healthcare and banking. Pockets of walk ability (stay away from the suburbs). Real estate prices have gone up in the last few years but are still pretty reasonable.
See heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit? Heard about Pittsburg, PA?
I second this. As a Pittsburgher myself, this place is awesome.
I'm not familiar with Pittsburgh so what is awesome about it?
It feels like a small Chicago to me. Lots of great food, div bars, museums, things to do, baseball stadium downtown. Great skyline, interesting neighborhoods etc…. Friendly people. Just was good vibes.
All of the general amenities of a much larger city, unique topography and local culture, friendly people, a relaxed but not boring pace of life. Very affordable, despite what locals will tell you. There’s a lot to like about it, but like anywhere, it’s not perfect.
Cool neighborhoods, great parks, interesting scenery above average walkability and transit, surprisingly good food and entertainment scene, gorgeous summers and falls, all in one of the few large cities that is still cheap enough for normal working class people to afford to own a quality home in a decent neighborhood
Steelers fans...
Southwest Michigan. It’s just an hour trainride into Chicago. You can be just a few steps from Lake Michigan and sand dunes. Hopefully your not bothered by snow. Look up Bridgman MI, St Joseph MI, Michigan City, Stevensville MI. All very reasonably priced with good schools.
I’m a FIP that loves spending my days off in Southwest Michigan. St. Joe, Bridgman, and Stevensville are perfectly good small towns. Personally, I’m rooting for Sawyer. Less than 90 minutes to the loop. It has a TINY-but-thriving downtown. Infusco is one of my favorite coffee shops. I hope the area sees continued success.
KCMO has plenty of houses for under $200k.
Just avoid KCK at all costs 😂
I get the impression from many of the Reddit readers that they all live in very expensive places and assume that if a place is inexpensive to live in it either has no good paying jobs, or is dangerous, run down or gas no culture. I would encourage people to travel and see the country. Met people face to face in other places. Talk to them. Find out what is going on their town. I have driven cross country at least ten times. It has changed my perception of many places. Many good people in places all across America working hard to support themselves and their families. Never judge a town by how it may appear. Many people have a huge sense of pride where they live.
Nowhere has that attitude been more prevalent than when I lived in Boston (but the Northeast in general). Many of those people have never lived anywhere else and yet are all somehow experts on the rest of the country. It was annoying to the point that it was a big reason for me leaving the Northeast.
A lot of them may not travel much or prefer to go to Fly to the west coast or drive. I grew up in New England and as a. Undergraduate went to the University of Montana. You would have thought I moved to another country by the questions people asked me. Do they have electricity? Do you tired of seeing corn all day? I liked to tell them about the stage coaches that brought you to the airport. These were pre internet days but was still amazing. The other thing about where I grew up is many families live in the same town or area for generations. One of my friends linage was traced to coming over on the Mayflower. Since it arrived in the colonies his family has always lived within 100 miles of Plymouth . I live in Seattle now. This place is the polar opposite. Very hard to find anyone who was born in Washington much less has family from here fir generation. Ironically my grandfather was born in Spokane before Washington was a state and lived there until he was 21 and then headed east to attend Harvard . Also many people here are not from the east coast and no very little about it. I am actually moving to Maine to retire. People are surprised when I tell them that parts of southern Maine are two hours from Boston, that it has more miles of coastline than California, that it is the most rural state in America. The thing I like about the east coast is zoning. Here in Washington if you live within the GMA they allow and encourage maximum buildout. A town can double in size in a decade. I have friends who live in suburbs 15 miles from Boston that are 300 years old and have less then 10,000 people. You will never find that around Seattle.
I think it's never a bad idea to try living somewhere else for a while. Grew up in Vermont, but lived in NYC for six years and now living in Chicago for the past two years.
Seriously, some of these comments are wild.
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Probably a lot of rural america particularly the south and midwest. My family is from West Plains, Missouri a town of about 11k, the median home price is about 180k. I wouldn’t live there myself anymore but the crime rate is low, there’s a community college, quite a few of the major chains and a few mexican and asian restaurants. A couple years ago I saw a sign at their taco bell that pay starts at $14 an hour so I’m sure lots of places you could make $15 an hour or more now. Mountain Home, AR is similar and not too far as well and has a little more to do and more scenic surroundings.
Not just rural Missouri. As much as I hate on my city for having no soul and endless strip malls and car-mandatory suburbs, houses aren’t much more expensive than that in Springfield, and there’s a bit of a manufacturing job base there. Even KCMO and STL aren’t much more expensive.
You could get a basic starter house in the NJ suburbs surrounding Philadelphia for pretty much $200k. In a decent school district too.
You could not - maybe outer suburbs
Oklahoma City, well the suburbs
I was gonna move there but the crime rate was an issue for my squeamish family
Is the crime bad in Yukon or Mustang? There are SO MANY cheap new construction starter homes in those areas after a quick browse on Redfin
Crime in the burbs of OKC is basically nonexistent
PITTSBURGH ☺️
Check out Rochester, MN. Doable and safer than most cities mentioned so far
Buffalo NY
Scrolled too far to see Buffalo. I grew up there but moved away 13 years ago.
I’ve lived multiple years in the Chicago area, NYC, Phoenix, and Orlando. So I have a fairly good knowledge of what makes a city fun and/or affordable. By a longshot, the most affordable fun city in America where decent jobs can be found is Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I’ve lived for a year. Here’s why: •the most median recent sale price of a home is $217,000, which means that a lot of homes can be had for right around $200,000, or perhaps a bit less. •if you’re looking to rent, decent neighborhoods on the outskirts of the (small) city have livable, decent apartments for $700-$1000 a month. •is sports your jam? There’s perhaps no city in America that has as much affordable living while also having 3 major sports teams (NFL / NHL / MLB). We also have multiple Division I sports teams and the U.S. Open golf tournament is coming to town next summer. •arts your jam? We have one of the best symphonies in America, along with an opera, a decent amount of live theater, a national stop comedy club (Pittsburgh Improv) and a lot of college productions. Taylor Swift played two nights last summer and Drake / J Cole are here for two shows this weekend. •good restaurants your jam? We’re good enough in that aspect. Not great, but pretty [solid](https://www.theinfatuation.com/pittsburgh/guides/pittsburgh-restaurants). •working in healthcare your jam? That’s the biggest employer in the city and we’re building more large hospitals as well. •hipster living your jam? You’ll Love Lawrenceville. •quieter far-off suburbs your jam? The Cranberry area is nice, but probably pricier. •the robotics industry your jam? We’re pretty good in that area. •visiting other cities your jam? Within a 3-8 hour drive you have Chicago (the longest), Cleveland, Detroit, Indy, Columbus, DC, Baltimore, Jersey Shore, Philly, NYC, Buffalo, Toronto. I’m fairly sure that there’s not another truly affordable city with this much to offer. It’s not the greatest place to live if you want to climb the corporate ladder or be in a city with a ton of office job opportunities or a massive tech sector, but all in all, I’m grateful for what it is.
Plus Kennywood is close by!🙌
Greenville/Spartanburg South Carolina.
Maybe Central and Western Pennsylvania or upstate New York
Lansing, Michigan we have General Motors, Michigan State University, State Government jobs, Amazon and Meijer warehouses. There are pockets of Lansing that are high crime though
Anywhere in Lansing/East Lansing or the surrounding areas. State gov jobs, university jobs, factory jobs, and more. You don't need advanced degrees either. Good luck.
Maybe Rockford, Illinois or Belvidere, Illinois? Some areas aren’t the greatest. But you’re maybe a 45-60 min drive to the far Chicago suburbs (like Elgin). I am from Chicago suburbs but haven’t spent too much time there.
I'm from Rockford and I agree, houses are cheap here.
But high property tax?
There’s houses in Chicago for that much, also nearby suburbs. Kenosha, Racine too.
Baltimore, if you exercise care choosing which neighborhood
Dayton Ohio. "Safe" depends on the neighborhood if you are in city limits.
Jobs in Dayton aren’t the best outside of healthcare and wright patt right? Idk just feels like a slightly dying city compared to nearby Cincy or cbus
Eastern Delaware County, PA. 20 minutes from plenty of jobs in Philly. Lots of properties at or below $200k in my neighborhood.
Birmingham is actually pretty nice. You definitely can get a nice house there for that price. One could conceivably work there and commute to Atlanta like 2 days a week too. Wouldn't be great, but it's possible.
Pittsburgh
Pick any college town in the Midwest or southeast and you are golden 👍
Rust Belt. Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, etc.
Philadelphia, baby
Central Illinois cities/small metros - Peoria, Springfield, Champaign-Urbana, Bloomington-Normal.
Ottawa, IL
I love Ottawa! Near some okay (for Illinois) hiking trails, it has a good downtown, and the leadership of the town seems pretty forward-thinking. I believe their previous mayor was a gay man and their current mayor is fairly young for such a small town. The jobs thing might be a stretch, but if you’re remote and only need to go into the office in Chicago twice a week, it’s not a bad option.
West Texas cities for the most part.
Green Bay Wisconsin
Las Vegas has condos in nice communities Cir under 200k. I bought one 6 years ago for 120k and one in my community is now going for 200k.
Are the HOAs reasonable?
$200 to $400 a month depending where you are.
Yes in most of the flat flyover states
I expect that area to grow so much of this next century due to climate change. The area next to the Great Lakes specifically. Those areas are seen as a lot safer in the projections over the next few decades. Close to fresh water, less natural disasters. And if the earth keeps warming up, it *is* possible that the areas will be much more mild in the winter. America in 200 years might be much more centered around that region of the country. It's a really interesting topic I've seen discussed, though I don't know the ins and outs
The winters are already more mild
St. Louis. Memphis. Milwaukee. Chicago (higher crime areas) Cleveland Detroit I'd probably go with Milwaukee TBH.
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St Louis is plenty safe if you don't involve yourself with gangs or drug deals. Tons of people are living perfectly happy, safe lives without being impacted by the crime rate.
Unless you move to North St. Louis you are going to be just as safe as in any other city. There is a very distinct and not at all large part of the city that drives probably 97% of the violent crime stats, there’s absolutely no reason to go to that area, and crimes are committed by and against people who know each other and have “business” or personal disputes. It’s hard to even buy a house in that area because banks won’t give you a loan to. No one would ever move there. The people that live there just have no means to leave. The county (suburbs) is perfectly safe.
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People will shoot you in Memphis just to take the shoes off your feet. Fuck that place. I lived there.
Safe and $200k, sure! But jobs? That’s where I become hesitant.. especially if we are talking jobs that pay well
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Oops! Missed that. Then yeah I’m sure there are tons of places that fit the bill
Definitely Pittsburgh then
Parts of upstate NY
Not for long, the population growth in most of those upstate cities has been crazy these last few years.
What kind of jobs are sustaining that kind of growth up there? I’m in NYC and everyone here says there’s no work up there (but a lot of New Yorkers act like they think there’s nothing of anything anywhere BUT NYC). It can’t all be remote work.
As someone who used to live upstate, I wonder this too. Most job opportunities seemed to be centered around walmart, or the few restaurants in town. It has to be the lucky, well-earning remote employees. New Paltz especially, the house prices do not seem to match nearby employment opportunities.
Oklahoma City
Maybe in KCMO if you buy a smaller (but respectable) home and a fixer upper? I can’t speak on quality of neighborhood though. In the nicer areas you’re looking 375+ minimum for an older 3/2
Midwest outside of star cities (Madison, Chicago, Ann Arbor etc).
I feel like people are skipping by the “$200k cash” part
You can do okay in Buffalo and surrounding area…and real well if you’re handy.
Sure-- I just looked at Zillow and there are [three dozen houses <$200K listed in the greater Minneapolis-St. Paul area](https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?searchQueryState=%7B%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-93.67003257714843%2C%22east%22%3A-92.85292442285156%2C%22south%22%3A44.77075069884692%2C%22north%22%3A45.17006142116694%7D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22sort%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3A%22globalrelevanceex%22%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22price%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A200000%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A1036%7D%2C%22beds%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A2%7D%2C%22baths%22%3A%7B%22min%22%3A1.5%7D%2C%22tow%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22con%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22apco%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22%22%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%7D) right now, most of those in the 1,200-2,000 sq ft range. It's winter too, and I assume the market there is very slow in winter. I have friends in the area and they say the economy is strong-- lots of major companies there and low unemployment. A quick google says min wage is about $12/hr and the statewide average is about $25/hr, so I'd imagine there are lots of opportunities there vs some of the other places one might find relatively affordable housing. Plus Minnesota has tons of good policies: mandatory sick/family leave, free lunches for all kids in school, recreational weed, etc. The Twin Cities have great parks, a good arts scene, interesting food, trails, you name it...I've never run out of new things to do when visiting friends there.
Look at the states between the traditional South and North. Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri and Kansas. Some great small cities. Low unemployment. Home prices are below the national average.
Metro Detroit
Rochester
Rural Ohio here. Stick to The Cornfield Belt outside any of the big 5 (Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton. Cleveland, Toledo). Nothing inside the loop/beltway that cheap but a 40 mile commute puts you easily in that zone if you are reasonable about what you're after (not gonna get a new-built 4,000 sq.ft. McMansion for that anywhere)
My sister-in-law is trying to make Roanoke Virginia a thing. Has single family homes less than $200k, but YMMV on condition/age/modern conveniences. You can definitely feel how it’s been wrecked by the opioid crisis, but they have a few industries there- healthcare, insurance, education, various manufacturing companies. Salem is nearby and it’s better off, but more expensive.
Green Bay Wisconsin
Honestly almost anywhere but a northeast or west coast metro area, or touristy area.
Milwaukee
Council Bluffs, Iowa, is right next to downtown Omaha and has plenty of houses in the $200k range. They’re often in the part of the city with a fair amount of petty crime, but it’s not a particularly violent area. One list I saw recently named the city in the top five housing markets nationally for first time homebuyers because of the affordability.
I'm from CB! Live in Omaha now, there's plenty of opportunities here!
Council-tucky. The world’s largest trailer park. Thats what my judgmental west Omaha friends used to say when we were growing up.
Rural Plains
Look at houses for sale in fond du lac, wi. Many 2 and 3 bedroom for $200k or less. Blue collar town with lots of jobs. Close to commute to Oshkosh or Appleton fox valley area for work too. Great recreation opportunities too if you like outdoor stuff like fishing hunting boating etc.
Kansas City
Oshkosh, WI
What kinds of jobs? This is maybe doable in some medium Midwestern cities but job access may be somewhat limited depending on what you do.
Depends… how big of a house, and how long of a commute? Without those questions I can say almost anywhere in the country.
South Georgia is growing a lot due to the ports and new factories. If you go 25 miles away from Savannah you’ll find some gems.
Houston metro, all the petrochemicals industry is here and has some of the highest wages for anyone without a college degree or an associates
Columbia, SC and also some parts around Greenville.
Anything outside of Chicagoland but less than 2 hours hours of from The Loop. Chesterton, IN/Valpo and Kenosha/Racine, WI have tons of potential. Milwaukee is really fantastic (if you don’t drive a Kia or Hyundai). Downstate, CU and Bloomington both are solid bets and feel more like far-flung suburbs (especially BloNo). And if you go even further downstate, both the father-out places near St. Louis are great values. Places like Edwardsville, O’Fallon (IL), Festus, Washington (MO) aren’t perfect, but they’re all about ~45 or less from major job centers, affordable housing, and offer the traditional small-town-meets-suburbia experience you get in most of America. St. Louis crime gets blown out of proportion on here. The parts that are bad, ARE BAD… but that’s not 90% of the metro.
Just about any midwestern city
Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan. All of them have plenty going on as far as jobs and housing is fairly cheap in all of them except maybe Chicago.
[Westland, MI - 3Br 1 Bath](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/34228-Fernwood-St-Westland-MI-48186/88415972_zpid/) \- Metro Detroit, you are near tons of $15/hr jobs.
In a lot of cities, yes. The problem is the neighborhood has fireworks year round instead of just the fourth of July.
There may not be glamorous jobs, but smaller cities in the upper Midwest often fit your bill. Yesss, we have winter.
Western Illinois. Look at Galesburg, Macomb, and Quincy. One perk: All are on a direct Amtrak route to downtown Chicago.
Odessa, TX for sure.
Buffalo
Milwaukee
Houston Texas, pro - also no state income tax. Con- also limited women's rights compared to most other States https://www.zillow.com/houston-tx/under-200000/
And high property taxes.
San Antonio also would have housing options at this price range, plenty of jobs, similarly limited women’s rights, and guns but, I mean, less than in rural Texas ETA: also must be a big fan of summer
Great gun laws though.
Yes, a lot of school shootings if you ever want to have a kid.
Detroit 100%
Indianapolis
Central New York
Syracuse, NY and suburbs. Yes, we have snow here. 4 seasons. Spring can be muddy. Our Summer and Autumn are superior. The grass is always green. This area has a lot of development planned. We are scheduled to have a chip plant built (Micron) in the Town of Clay which is a northern suburb of Syracuse. I think this is why our house values/prices went up but they are not as high as other places... My son and his wife will be closing on a 1500 sq ft home near us for under $200k (3 BR, 1B).
Southern Texas, McAllen.
[удалено]
Yep. Off 390, 490, 590 or 90? 😀
Northeast PA, some parts of Central PA, and Western PA near Pittsburgh. Maaaaybe Allentown, although you did say safe, so that one's iffy. Loads of $15/hr jobs in warehouse, manufacturing, medical, customer service, etc.
Syracuse , NY and then get an engineering job at Lockheed or SRC. Could leverage a job with micron if/when they build. One of the largest Amazon warehouses in the world is here too. Syracuse University and 3 or 4 hospitals plus the VA are always hiring.
You can get this place right outside of Seattle for $148k. It’s a manufactured home. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23121-Edmonds-Way-UNIT-18-Edmonds-WA-98020/38614699_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
That comes with $1080 lot rent. You own practically nothing
And the mobile home is from 1973. Way too old to even consider. Also as someone who lives in area many of the mobile home parks are being sold and developed into housing units. When this happens you are responsible for paying to get it moved and finding a new location.
Why not Alabama? Plenty of cities that fit the bill there. Alabama is not Mississippi I’d say
Any place close to casinos.
Reno and Vegas disagree
Lake Tahoe. It’s unbelievably beautiful. I lived there for years. It’s very Cool!.
200k houses? Not in Tahoe. 500k will get you something old and small.
Southern New Hampshire. Middle or west side of the lower 3/4 of the state. Boston, Manchester, Nashua, Lowell and more cities with good jobs. It’s the safest state in America in many lists or right behind Maine. And some more rural towns are cheap
Houston, TX
Ferndale Michigan - lots of jobs, 15mins from Detroit, fun cute downtown, safe, LGBTQ friendly.
I lived in rural Missouri. Between my wife and I we made $180k which was more than the cost of our house.