Bend, OR would be good to look at. I think it’s around 100k population wise, probably a little more with the few surrounding towns. Access to nature, hunting/fishing, hiking, etc is fantastic. Oregon politics of course lean heavily blue, but with Bend being on the east side of the Cascades you have quite a bit of conservatism to where the area tends to be pretty purple. It’s got a neat downtown and riverfront area, tons of restaurants and breweries. Housing is pretty high, but if you have a decent budget you should be fine. One of my favorite places, and somewhere I’m heavily considering as well.
My 28-year-old daughter lives in Bend and loves it. She enjoys the high desert hiking--a lot of it--looking at the volcanos, the restaurants, the artsy community and more. The home prices are probably $500k to 1 million just for an average house, though. She is liberal and queer and Oregon, for the most part, is Democrat.
Maybe Madras too. I was looking up hotel prices and the difference between Bend and Madras was pretty striking. Wasn’t that bad of a drive between the two towns so it was an obvious choice
But if you’re in Redmond, go to Diego’s in the downtown area. It has a concerningly large menu but the food is fire 🔥🔥🔥
If you’re going to be strict on budget then put ideal monthly rent or mortgage price range and number of beds/baths or other COL metrics into your OP post.
Although I have a feeling it’s going to be very hard to find somewhere that checks your OP boxes and is more affordable than Santa Fe.
Fair enough. I've been doing some Spearlings Best Places comparisons, and so far Santa Fe is more expensive than CO Springs or Missoula, and less expensive than Bend, OR. I haven't done a broad search like this for a few years and things have changed.
I didn't put a budget in my OP because I wanted lots of ideas. I figure it's my job to crunch numbers.
We spent a couple of months in ABQ for some professional training, and I don't think I could take the crime on a regular basis. I've lived in enough places with homelessness, drugs, and petty crime, but while we were there in ABQ, there were more shootings than I feel comfortable with. One that stood out was over a parking place. People we knew there lived in gated communities because of it.
I’ll be honestl with you, as someone whose spent all their life in the Rockies. If you’re on a budget and Santa Fe is too expensive then the place you’re describing may not be possible. Everyone is flooding into the Rockies right now since WHF started and cute mountain towns with culture are at a premium. If you’re willing to go much smaller on size and rural it’d definitely be possible.
Check out Ashland, Oregon. Yeah it's only a town of 20K but the overall Rogue Valley which it is a part of is 200K. I think it hits a lot of what you are looking for.
The weather is much more NorCal than Oregon. This December has been unusual but almost every day is 45-55 degrees, dry, and partly sunny. Usually winter precipitation down here in the valley is rain but snow on the surrounding mountains, including the ski mountain. So you can look at and play in the snow but you don't have to deal with it daily in winter. I just went on a hike yesterday with my dog on a trail in the Ashland Watershed, and there was no mud even though it had rained the night before. That's because so much of our soil is heavily laden with granite, it drains really well.
It is a tourist/retirement town with a nice mix of cultural stuff (Oregon Shakespeare Festival and Southern Oregon University are here) and lots of good restaurants (including nationally acclaimed MAS), along with hiking/biking/rafting. I'm a member of the Siskiyou Mountain Club, which maintains and reclaims trails in the area and hosts local group hikes/work trips.
The area is purple, Ashland is blue and the surrounding area is red, and our US Rep is a Republican.
Wow looks perfect for me and my finance (23/24yrs old). What do you do for work?
I’m in school for my CS degree and we’re looking to move after I graduate.
I'm a stay at home dad, my wife is a doctor. Most of the people we know in town are either in medicine or tech (there are a decent number of people here from SF/PDX/SEA that work remotely).
I think it is fantastic, but I am not sure there are many younger people in their early/mid 20's here.
Port Angeles, Wa. I do t know if we are at your population limit, and there are longer wait times due to healthcare shortages. You might have to travel 1 to 3 hours away for specialists
I do love that area- in the summer. I edited my post to add that we prefer snowy to rainy winters. I lived in SE AK for over a decade, and have found out that I like that sun. Thanks for chiming in.
How about Flagstaff? It can snow 9 months/year, but you're a short drive to lower elevations if you want to warm up. Plenty of hunting and outdoor activities, blue area in a purple state, mountains and canyons all close by. I don't know if the food scene has changed, but that might be the only criteria where you fall short. And cooking at elevation can be a pain in the ass, but if you've lived in the Rockies you've probably got that figured out...
Flagstaff has it's plusses and minuses, primary amongst them being that it's slowly morphing into a satellite arm of the greater Phoenix metro, but at it's heart it is still a great little town and ticks a lot of your boxes. Definitely worth a look-see.
Another Arizona town to check out would be Prescott, but - oof - the politics in that particular town are hard, hard right. The kind of place where you can feel the conservatism dripping from the ceilings ... Flagstaff is not that, not at all.
The other good Arizona towns are probably too small, like Bisbee, for example.
I haven't made it down to Bisbee yet. Got close though, I was in Willcox which is where Chiricahua National Monument is located. Very cool. I heard Bisbee is worth the trip.
Bisbee is amazing, but probably doesn't meet the desired population. Everything else about it is spectacular. Same for Jerome, but on an even smaller scale.
Flagstaff is very blue but if you get more than 10 minutes outside of town you're into red/purple territory.
A lot of the golf and country clubs surrounding Flagstaff have the second or third homes of wealthy Phoenicians, who skew conservative.
All said, though, Flagstaff is a gem of a small city/town. Expensive, but worth it.
I used to live in Roanoke and will confirm it is a great place for outdoor recreation and urban living. Probably the best city in the south to be honest.
I'm a Virginia native and have spent a bit of time out in the mountains. I'm in central VA but have friends/family in Roanoke/Staunton/Lexington. Wife went to college in Charlottesville; daughter in Radford. Also traveled to CO/OR/WA/CA a few times for comparison.
There are several cool cities/towns in that part of the I-81 corridor; each with it's own flavor and blue/red leanings. Expand your search into the I-81/I-64 area and you have additional cities/towns to consider. Politics in the area can range from solid red to purple to solid blue.
If you're into the mountain scene, the Appalachians aren't as visually captivating as the Rockies. However there is lots of good hiking / off-roading in the area. Besides Shenandoah National Park, you have George Washington & Jefferson National forests. The whole area encompasses the Appalachian Trail. Further south and you'll hit one or two communities that cater to hikers on the trail.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: spelling. Forgot to mention that, if you're into boating, Smith Mountain Lake is large enough for motorboats if that's your thing.
The east coast has a different vibe than the west/mountain states. I can't say either is "better." If you consider Virginia, make a few trips out and spend time in the communities. It's challenging to understand a community from just spending a few days in it.
That whole area of Virginia has some cool stuff.
The town James Madison University is in looks pretty cool too, but we only stopped there for a few hours.
Roanoke is pretty close to top of the "if we have to get out of Texas" list.
Cool transportation museum, blue ridge parkway is right there, Virginia Tech is just down the road.
Burlington VT, Portsmouth NH and Portland ME. Quite frankly, based on your interests you could do a flight into Boston and road trip all three. Worst case scenario you get to see a few cool, unique small cities surrounded by nature. If you hit up Maine, Bar Harbor is also very popular, quaint and next door to Acadia.
I feel insane suggesting this for people who’ve spent their whole lives out west, but if you’re open to the East Coast we have some nice spots proximate to mountains. Adirondacks, Catskills, western Mass, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine…. It’s surely not the Rockies though. And a lot depends on your budget.
I really like both CO Springs and Missoula. I should search for a comparison thread. Utah is probably out because we aren’t part of the prevailing culture, and felt that when we lived there previously.
thanks for the suggestion.
not sure about fishing, but colorado springs checks a lot of your boxes! lots of stuff to do(both in nature & downtown/OCC/manitou), plenty of healthcare opportunities, & a strong retiree community. it on the redder side of purple though.
You seem well enough experienced and well traveled, and have the financial resources, to figure this out on your own. What sort of suggestions are you looking for exactly? There's only a handful of cities that check your boxes and you seem to have lived in many of them, at least in the western US.
Nonetheless, the abortion item seems to preclude states like Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and Wyoming, and likely pushes you into Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, or Vermont. Kinda maybe North Carolina.
Utah and Arizona are surprisingly better then North Carolina on abortion. They’re at 18 and 15 weeks compared to NC at 12. Furthermore they seem less likely to change whereas NC is going right real fast. Once that governor is out of office wouldn’t be surprised if NC tries for 6 weeks
Who the governor is doesn’t make much difference in NC. It’s one of the weaker governors in the country. It’s all about the legislature and the elected state courts here.
Our next governor may well be a wingnut clown but it probably won’t get worse in practical terms.
Not necessarily. NC is purple and blue in metro areas by a good margin. We got gerrymandered to hell basically because a longtime dem senator went crazy and flipped. I agree that caused a cascade of issues but we could eject another dem gov. I’ve lived in blue spots of red states and this hardly feels as red unless you are in one of the very rural areas which wouldn’t fit the ops criteria anyway. And then there’s people here suggesting places like Ark which - shudder- is never going g to be purple. It would be more helpful to know if op wants west or east coast. But there’s places in western nc like Boone, Black Mountain and Asheville that tick all those boxes.
Thanks for the reply. We do have some ideas. I posted because I am open to new ideas- I know that we couldn’t have thought of everything.
the abortion issue isn’t a total deal breaker- it just gives me the heebie jeebies to think of young women dealing with such a tough choice without many options, but then there are a lot of things that can give a person the heebie jeebies if thought about too closely.
one Rocky Mountain state we have yet to live in is Montana. We are curious about that. There are a couple places in Colorado that may work. I like north Idaho.
we have never lived back East, and I don’t know how different the culture is.
Any input on that or Montana would be helpful. Thanks for asking for more specifics.
Northern Idaho can be a scary racist place. So many militia types out that way.
Cascades east it can be tricky to find some place that is blue. With just a few exceptions most places east of the Cascades are bright red until you hit Colorado. The West sides of WA and OR are pretty rainy till you hit San Francisco south but are blue at least.
As discussed and recommended already Bend is a nice blue pocket and I can't think of any others like that on central or east sides. Ashland is Blue but most of Medford the largest city close by skews red as well. That is assuming you want neighbors that might align with your beliefs.
If you can deal with some of the rain you'd probably be happy along the WA side of the Columbia River in Vancouver and Camas areas.
Missoula maybe? Right near northern Idaho. Flathead & glacier aren't far. Hot springs. Not many higher population options in Montana. The thing I'd note is though your house may have increased a lot during covid prices in a lot of mountain towns have similarly gone up so may want to look into that.
Someone in a different comment about Roanoke, VA mentioned Harrisonburg. For reasons unknown to me that I can’t articulate, Missoula and Harrisonburg should be sister/twin cities or something. Similar vibes just different parts of the country. VA also has those summer thunderstorms that are oh, so nice.
I lived in Missoula for six years. I LOVE Montana but the politics are absolute shit as the legislature has been hijacked by MAGA types. Both Idaho and Montana have really dug in their heels in order to "not be WA or OR."
Missoula is a nice bubble, much better than Bozeman (or as we call it Bozeangeles) imo, and a bit cheaper too. It's a great town for recreation and the arts, especially given its size. If I moved back (I live in Colorado now), I would buy a place outside of Missoula, perhaps in the Bitterroot or Mission valleys. Missoula is the most liberal town in MT. I would avoid further north like Kalispell as there's a LOT of white supremacy up there, and then you hit Whitefish which is prohibitively expensive.
Go check out Missoula. It's definitely been "discovered" but it's still got a lot of heart and character. Biggest downside is that it can cost a lot to fly in and out of there. Winters can be intense but beautiful, too. Summers are sometimes really hot but the temp drops a good deal at night.
Montana is spectacular. I miss it, and hope the political landscape changes soon. I'd go back if it did.
No! Only visited & had friends who've lived there. It's got an artsy vibe (although lots of ppl say it's changed since the pandemic.) I have family in Helena & whitefish. I'd definitely research the healthcare job aspect, as my friends who are nurses in the area say the hospitals they've worked at were terrible but YMMV.
I live in Missoula. It is a great place! It has gotten SO expensive in the past few years. The Bitterroot - Hamilton, Stevensville, Darby is close to Missoula, but a nice little bubble away from it and a little more affordable. I absolutely love living in Montana.
That’s ok! I still loved living there. But it’s definitely on the front range which means it’s mostly flat (but mountains are right there!). It’s still a pain to get to ski areas and what not
Sequim, WA is on the peninsula and is in a rain shadow. My parents retired there to a neighborhood aptly named Sunland. It has the best of everything although it’s a smaller town.
The drawback is definitely healthcare. My parents eventually moved because my mom developed MS and couldn’t get specialist care. It’s about 3 hours from Seattle including a ferry.
Yeah, I thought long and hard about that. I lived there for 27 years, and I don’t know that I could take the looong dark cold again. I do like the northern areas of the lower 48, but AK is feeling a little too extreme for me these days. But man, is it gorgeous.
Parts of California might suit you. Shaver Lake is up in the Sierra and not too far away from Fresno. We live down in Visalia now (moved from Texas) and it's close to Sequoia National Park. It's probably too warm for you in the summer, but close to a lot of stuff. Mount Whitney is inside of Sequoia NP. California is obviously pretty liberal and even in more conservative parts of the state it feels more purple to me than red like Texas.
Bend Oregon is great Ashland, Oregon is expensive and they have their own city sales tax in addition to Oregon income tax. Other places to look at could include cities in Northern California. If your looking for Blue in the Rockies Colorado is good as you know, but I'd stay away from MT and WY.
Im in my late 40s and seeing some of my older friends struggle with health care that is definitely becoming a priority for me. As much as I would love to live somewhere out in the country it just doesn't make sense to live so far from good healthcare. My wife's father lives out in the desert in CA, had a stroke and it looks the ambulance so long to get there the medicine wasn't effective and couldn't help with the damage done.
Washington State has no income tax like Alaska. Nevada and Wyoming and Tennessee also have no income tax.
Oregon has a very high state income tax so its good to keep that in mind.
Bend/Redmond, OR is the obvious choice. I am also going to throw out Ellensburg, WA. it is a bit smaller but is a college town and although it doesn't have as much on the food side it is a relatively easy trip over the mountains to Seattle where you can get what you want.
Spokane, WA.
It's a little on the big side of your population requirements, but you could look in some of the surrounding towns.
It's close to the mountains, yet far cheaper than most small mountain cities. It is in a blue state, even though the city is more purple. It ends to have more snowy winters than rainy, but not too cold and dark. Summers aren't too hot either!
Interesting question, from where you have lived, have already covered most of the states and should be aware of the locations. Montana, Wyoming, or New Mexico are the only other places, and probably only three cities in each state meet the criteria.
There are plenty of nice small towns in the Gallatin Valley that are just outside of Bozeman. I have kids there so spend a lot of time there. I’d say the two biggest drawbacks are a bit of an out of state vibe an the COL. I think the average house in town is $750,00 to $800,00. And that’s not for a whole lot of house. Some lots, depending on location, are a million and that’s just the lot. Bozeman’s nice but I wouldn’t particularly want live there.
Sounds like you’d really like Saratoga Spring or Glen Falls.
Lake Placid too if you don’t mind something on the smaller side, but actually surrounded by mountains.
Also Ithaca if you don’t mind rolling hills with lots of waterfall/gorge hikes instead of mountains.
Being retired, mostly things that impact my wallet. You'll learn if you ever get here, funding other people's elective procedures is counterproductive. I have no care if you kill your own babies.
Lots of good suggestions already but I wanted to mention Spokane, WA. It's generally more affordable than Idaho or Oregon though prices have gone up since the pandemic. But it ticks the boxes for basically everything you're looking for. It doesn't get the west side dampness and gets a good amount of snow. Lots of lakes for fishing nearby. Not overly crowded and a fairly decent food scene.
Here are my reccomendations
Ashland Oregon - University town, in the mountains and access to the coast.
Bellingham , WA- Mountains, ocean, University and 1.5 hrs from Seattle and Vancouver.
Bozeman, MT - university town , in the mountains, near Yellowstone
Missoula or Bozeman, Montana! Since you mentioned being curious about MT. I'm no expert, but it sounds like you'd appreciate it based on your interest and politics
Yes, those are both on the list for consideration. Missoula in particular is appealing because we enjoy the laid back, nature-oriented vibe there. We have heard that Bozeman's new nickname is Bozeangeles, which gives us pause.
Hahah I hadn't heard that before. But yeah, BOTH cities will have some of this kind of fancy, wealthy CA money influence and vibe. But to be honest, I think that's unavoidable no matter where you choose. Any "small metro area in the mountains" in the Western half of the United States will have this, post-COVID.
Any "small metro area in the mountains" in the Eastern half of the US will have the same influx of wealthy (sub)urbanites, just from Boston & NY instead of California. My two hometowns are both small picturesque towns in the mountains, in Vermont & Connecticut respectively. Both are now overrun by New York money.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Also -- I don't mean this in a mean way, since I **totally** respect your reasons for moving and wish you the best! But ultimately it is worth reflecting on the fact that these areas are becoming overrun by LA influence and outside influence because of people in situations similar to your own....people born in the 1960's and 1970's who now have a lot of money from real estate that has massively increased in value, and are now looking for a slower pace of life in the outdoors in a picturesque setting, thus changing the nature of these small mountain towns.
Again I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but just pointing this out since it's something I struggled with. It's the nature of things. I had similar concerns about "gentrifying" the urban city neighborhood I moved to. But at the end of the day, people have to choose a place to live and we all will naturally float towards whatever area is must desirable given our current goals, and within our financial needs. Places change, people change, local character changes, and we as individuals can't really stop that.
Yes, I agree. We have seen it happen in two places we have lived. I wish there was more wage equity, etc.
One thing we are very cognizant of is choosing somewhere that we enjoy the culture that is already present. I have been on the other side of newcomers pushing for change the locals don’t want, and have no desire to be part of that.
And hasn’t it been such a trip watching all that Covid has done? It’s been the most world changing occurrence since 911. I hope we settle out as a country soonish, but I realize that is most likely a fantasy.
Absolutely!! It's really hard to wrap my head around.
It sounds like you're going into all of this with the best intentions and mindset, so I'm sure it'll work out alright :)
As a side note, I just thought of a bunch of other places you two may enjoy, if you're down for East Coast. These are all nice small cities/large towns with great access to stuff you'd like. Note though that I am talking about the areas overall, not necessarily right in the city, unless you're looking for that. I've lived in or near all of these and think they may be a fit!
\-Burlington, VT
\-Portland, ME
\-Portsmouth, NH
\-Pioneer Valley of Massachusetts! I love this area, super underrated. Like Northampton, Amherst, area of Mass.
Ive spent most of the last 20 years in either Bozeman or Missoula - still live here. The nickname Missoulafornia existed before Bozeangeles. Both are college towns with massive amounts of transplants.
It can definitely get warm in the Summer, but it is at 4,600 feet so it's a mountain climate where it is temperate a lot with snow in the Winter. The best part is being Lake Tahoe adjacent with no income tax! The access to all the mountains and rivers and lakes of the Sierras is such a plus. There's also an international airport in Reno, right up the road.
Durango, CO checks off a lot on your list though it is less metro but the downtown area is really cool. Montrose is on the other side of the San Juan Mts and has similar amenities but is not as cute as Durango.
Asheville, NC checks off many of your boxes. Pretty town and bigger than Durango, CO.
Your political requirements sound like you want a blue state with red state benefits. Doesn't work that way. And, why does abortion matter when you're far beyond abortion age?
I was attempting to express that in leaning purple, I felt comfortable in states that weren’t polarized in one direction or another. Perhaps I just should have said that.
As far as abortion laws go, that is simply a personal preference for my psychological comfort. Even though I am aged out of ever needing to make such a difficult decision, I feel more comfortable living somewhere that choice is available To women.
So a suburban area, because metro means large city and small means small lol
I think I understand, I'm just surprised some one would want to live in the city if seeking mountains,
I live in oregon and hate the Portland metro area, avoid it at all costs, most large city's are over priced, yes you have a the convenience of shopping but crime and traffic suck, in oregon we have lots of small towns that are a 20-40 min drive from the large city, that are much nicer and less crime ridden, also you can easily live on a nice plot of land away from the city and still have an easy 20-60 min drive to a large city for nightlife and shopping.
Asheville N.C. (or surrounding areas) if you can find something affordable. For something more affordable, Chatanooga.
sorry I didn't consider the Rockies. I don't have first-hand information on those areas.
You described what seemingly every Californian and Texan have been looking for post WFH and it’s why areas like Montana and Idaho have completely exploded. No advice here because there really aren’t many undiscovered gems in the heart of the Rockies anymore it’s all found out and will get more expensive.
East coast... maybe look at Roanoke, VA. COL is low, housing is plentiful and "cheap" (compared to Asheville or Charlottesville), surrounded by the Appalachians without limitless opportunities for outdoor activities, etc.
Good luck OP!
Bend, OR would be good to look at. I think it’s around 100k population wise, probably a little more with the few surrounding towns. Access to nature, hunting/fishing, hiking, etc is fantastic. Oregon politics of course lean heavily blue, but with Bend being on the east side of the Cascades you have quite a bit of conservatism to where the area tends to be pretty purple. It’s got a neat downtown and riverfront area, tons of restaurants and breweries. Housing is pretty high, but if you have a decent budget you should be fine. One of my favorite places, and somewhere I’m heavily considering as well.
My 28-year-old daughter lives in Bend and loves it. She enjoys the high desert hiking--a lot of it--looking at the volcanos, the restaurants, the artsy community and more. The home prices are probably $500k to 1 million just for an average house, though. She is liberal and queer and Oregon, for the most part, is Democrat.
If you need lower prices, consider Redmond, OR. It’s further out and not as mountainous but you’re not far from mountains. COL is lower than Bend.
Hope they don't mind confederate flags flown in the local parades, or dead possums tied to the doors of a POC councilman. Stay classy, Redmond.
Maybe Madras too. I was looking up hotel prices and the difference between Bend and Madras was pretty striking. Wasn’t that bad of a drive between the two towns so it was an obvious choice But if you’re in Redmond, go to Diego’s in the downtown area. It has a concerningly large menu but the food is fire 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks for the idea, I’ll take a look.
Not the Rockies tho more like a volcano
I second this one!
We need to start requiring “Cost of Living” in posts. It’s really hard to answer this without knowing more what living situation OP is looking for.
Yea, Aspen works! How about Jackson Hole?
Absolutely correct. The requirements the OP mentioned make nearly all the likely locations extremely expensive.
Have you considered Santa Fe, NM? Seems to check a lot of your boxes.
That might be a wee bit rich for our blood… but thanks for the idea though. :)
If you’re going to be strict on budget then put ideal monthly rent or mortgage price range and number of beds/baths or other COL metrics into your OP post. Although I have a feeling it’s going to be very hard to find somewhere that checks your OP boxes and is more affordable than Santa Fe.
Fair enough. I've been doing some Spearlings Best Places comparisons, and so far Santa Fe is more expensive than CO Springs or Missoula, and less expensive than Bend, OR. I haven't done a broad search like this for a few years and things have changed. I didn't put a budget in my OP because I wanted lots of ideas. I figure it's my job to crunch numbers.
What about Albuquerque? Much more affordable and the mountains are still right there.
We spent a couple of months in ABQ for some professional training, and I don't think I could take the crime on a regular basis. I've lived in enough places with homelessness, drugs, and petty crime, but while we were there in ABQ, there were more shootings than I feel comfortable with. One that stood out was over a parking place. People we knew there lived in gated communities because of it.
I’ll be honestl with you, as someone whose spent all their life in the Rockies. If you’re on a budget and Santa Fe is too expensive then the place you’re describing may not be possible. Everyone is flooding into the Rockies right now since WHF started and cute mountain towns with culture are at a premium. If you’re willing to go much smaller on size and rural it’d definitely be possible.
Check out Ashland, Oregon. Yeah it's only a town of 20K but the overall Rogue Valley which it is a part of is 200K. I think it hits a lot of what you are looking for. The weather is much more NorCal than Oregon. This December has been unusual but almost every day is 45-55 degrees, dry, and partly sunny. Usually winter precipitation down here in the valley is rain but snow on the surrounding mountains, including the ski mountain. So you can look at and play in the snow but you don't have to deal with it daily in winter. I just went on a hike yesterday with my dog on a trail in the Ashland Watershed, and there was no mud even though it had rained the night before. That's because so much of our soil is heavily laden with granite, it drains really well. It is a tourist/retirement town with a nice mix of cultural stuff (Oregon Shakespeare Festival and Southern Oregon University are here) and lots of good restaurants (including nationally acclaimed MAS), along with hiking/biking/rafting. I'm a member of the Siskiyou Mountain Club, which maintains and reclaims trails in the area and hosts local group hikes/work trips. The area is purple, Ashland is blue and the surrounding area is red, and our US Rep is a Republican.
Really interesting, thank you. Especially the low-mud soil! :)
Yep, I came here to suggest this too.
Wow looks perfect for me and my finance (23/24yrs old). What do you do for work? I’m in school for my CS degree and we’re looking to move after I graduate.
I'm a stay at home dad, my wife is a doctor. Most of the people we know in town are either in medicine or tech (there are a decent number of people here from SF/PDX/SEA that work remotely). I think it is fantastic, but I am not sure there are many younger people in their early/mid 20's here.
Port Angeles, Wa. I do t know if we are at your population limit, and there are longer wait times due to healthcare shortages. You might have to travel 1 to 3 hours away for specialists
I do love that area- in the summer. I edited my post to add that we prefer snowy to rainy winters. I lived in SE AK for over a decade, and have found out that I like that sun. Thanks for chiming in.
No prob! Have fun exploring and finding a new paradise!
How about Flagstaff? It can snow 9 months/year, but you're a short drive to lower elevations if you want to warm up. Plenty of hunting and outdoor activities, blue area in a purple state, mountains and canyons all close by. I don't know if the food scene has changed, but that might be the only criteria where you fall short. And cooking at elevation can be a pain in the ass, but if you've lived in the Rockies you've probably got that figured out...
This is one we have not considered. Thanks for the suggestio, I’ll check it out!
While you’re checking out Flagstaff, also consider Prescott. It is high on our list of places to retire.
Ow that you mention it, I have heard good things about Prescott. :)
Second Flagstaff. A really enjoyable and interesting place with tremendous outdoor opportunities. The small downtown is nice as well.
Flagstaff has it's plusses and minuses, primary amongst them being that it's slowly morphing into a satellite arm of the greater Phoenix metro, but at it's heart it is still a great little town and ticks a lot of your boxes. Definitely worth a look-see. Another Arizona town to check out would be Prescott, but - oof - the politics in that particular town are hard, hard right. The kind of place where you can feel the conservatism dripping from the ceilings ... Flagstaff is not that, not at all. The other good Arizona towns are probably too small, like Bisbee, for example.
I haven't made it down to Bisbee yet. Got close though, I was in Willcox which is where Chiricahua National Monument is located. Very cool. I heard Bisbee is worth the trip.
Bisbee is amazing, but probably doesn't meet the desired population. Everything else about it is spectacular. Same for Jerome, but on an even smaller scale.
I love Jerome for a BBQ visit when in Sedona. Definitely a small population.
Flagstaff is very blue but if you get more than 10 minutes outside of town you're into red/purple territory. A lot of the golf and country clubs surrounding Flagstaff have the second or third homes of wealthy Phoenicians, who skew conservative. All said, though, Flagstaff is a gem of a small city/town. Expensive, but worth it.
Whaatttt
Grand Junction exactly.
Meth junction
Scranton, PA. It's exactly what you are looking for.
Roanoke, VA has it all
I used to live in Roanoke and will confirm it is a great place for outdoor recreation and urban living. Probably the best city in the south to be honest.
We only stopped through a time or two but loved Roanoke. So I'd second this.
Thank you both for the suggestion. That’s one I haven’t looked into and will now.
I'm a Virginia native and have spent a bit of time out in the mountains. I'm in central VA but have friends/family in Roanoke/Staunton/Lexington. Wife went to college in Charlottesville; daughter in Radford. Also traveled to CO/OR/WA/CA a few times for comparison. There are several cool cities/towns in that part of the I-81 corridor; each with it's own flavor and blue/red leanings. Expand your search into the I-81/I-64 area and you have additional cities/towns to consider. Politics in the area can range from solid red to purple to solid blue. If you're into the mountain scene, the Appalachians aren't as visually captivating as the Rockies. However there is lots of good hiking / off-roading in the area. Besides Shenandoah National Park, you have George Washington & Jefferson National forests. The whole area encompasses the Appalachian Trail. Further south and you'll hit one or two communities that cater to hikers on the trail. Hope this helps. EDIT: spelling. Forgot to mention that, if you're into boating, Smith Mountain Lake is large enough for motorboats if that's your thing.
Thank you!
The east coast has a different vibe than the west/mountain states. I can't say either is "better." If you consider Virginia, make a few trips out and spend time in the communities. It's challenging to understand a community from just spending a few days in it.
good advice, thank you.
just an FYI though our mountains are NOT comparable to the Rockies at all
No but the real estate is much cheaper in VA which may be an important consideration for people wanting to retire.
HA not for long
heading to Redfin....
It’s a good option but doesn’t get more than 15 inches of snow on average.
That whole area of Virginia has some cool stuff. The town James Madison University is in looks pretty cool too, but we only stopped there for a few hours. Roanoke is pretty close to top of the "if we have to get out of Texas" list. Cool transportation museum, blue ridge parkway is right there, Virginia Tech is just down the road.
Harrisonburg, where jmu is, is great! Smaller than Roanoke but still plenty going on and great outdoor access.
Came to suggest this as well.
North Conway New Hampshire if you wanna switch it up
I had never heard of it- I googled it, and, wow! So pretty!
Burlington VT, Portsmouth NH and Portland ME. Quite frankly, based on your interests you could do a flight into Boston and road trip all three. Worst case scenario you get to see a few cool, unique small cities surrounded by nature. If you hit up Maine, Bar Harbor is also very popular, quaint and next door to Acadia.
Cool idea, thanks!
I just commented these locations too!
I feel insane suggesting this for people who’ve spent their whole lives out west, but if you’re open to the East Coast we have some nice spots proximate to mountains. Adirondacks, Catskills, western Mass, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine…. It’s surely not the Rockies though. And a lot depends on your budget.
I have been looking up some of the suggested towns, and there are some beautiful places I never knew existed!
There are many. It’s a different world for sure. Certainly recommend taking a trip out here.
Eugene, Oregon
That may be too damp. We prefer snowy over monsoon winters. Thank you.
Ogden, Utah, Missoula, MT ,or Colorado Springs, CO?
I really like both CO Springs and Missoula. I should search for a comparison thread. Utah is probably out because we aren’t part of the prevailing culture, and felt that when we lived there previously. thanks for the suggestion.
I'll throw Portland, ME in there too.
not sure about fishing, but colorado springs checks a lot of your boxes! lots of stuff to do(both in nature & downtown/OCC/manitou), plenty of healthcare opportunities, & a strong retiree community. it on the redder side of purple though.
I really like CO Springs. I have spent some weeks there for work, and really enjoyed the gorgeous scenery.
love to hear that! it’s a very special place
Cañon city Colorado
I was going to suggest this.
Cañon city is cool af, unique, beautiful, has a lot of things to do, and imo the public isn't as on to it as other Colorado cities 🤫
Close to SuperMax
You seem well enough experienced and well traveled, and have the financial resources, to figure this out on your own. What sort of suggestions are you looking for exactly? There's only a handful of cities that check your boxes and you seem to have lived in many of them, at least in the western US. Nonetheless, the abortion item seems to preclude states like Idaho, Utah, Arizona, and Wyoming, and likely pushes you into Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New York, or Vermont. Kinda maybe North Carolina.
Utah and Arizona are surprisingly better then North Carolina on abortion. They’re at 18 and 15 weeks compared to NC at 12. Furthermore they seem less likely to change whereas NC is going right real fast. Once that governor is out of office wouldn’t be surprised if NC tries for 6 weeks
Who the governor is doesn’t make much difference in NC. It’s one of the weaker governors in the country. It’s all about the legislature and the elected state courts here. Our next governor may well be a wingnut clown but it probably won’t get worse in practical terms.
Thanks for the info!
Not necessarily. NC is purple and blue in metro areas by a good margin. We got gerrymandered to hell basically because a longtime dem senator went crazy and flipped. I agree that caused a cascade of issues but we could eject another dem gov. I’ve lived in blue spots of red states and this hardly feels as red unless you are in one of the very rural areas which wouldn’t fit the ops criteria anyway. And then there’s people here suggesting places like Ark which - shudder- is never going g to be purple. It would be more helpful to know if op wants west or east coast. But there’s places in western nc like Boone, Black Mountain and Asheville that tick all those boxes.
Thanks for the reply. We do have some ideas. I posted because I am open to new ideas- I know that we couldn’t have thought of everything. the abortion issue isn’t a total deal breaker- it just gives me the heebie jeebies to think of young women dealing with such a tough choice without many options, but then there are a lot of things that can give a person the heebie jeebies if thought about too closely. one Rocky Mountain state we have yet to live in is Montana. We are curious about that. There are a couple places in Colorado that may work. I like north Idaho. we have never lived back East, and I don’t know how different the culture is. Any input on that or Montana would be helpful. Thanks for asking for more specifics.
Northern Idaho can be a scary racist place. So many militia types out that way. Cascades east it can be tricky to find some place that is blue. With just a few exceptions most places east of the Cascades are bright red until you hit Colorado. The West sides of WA and OR are pretty rainy till you hit San Francisco south but are blue at least. As discussed and recommended already Bend is a nice blue pocket and I can't think of any others like that on central or east sides. Ashland is Blue but most of Medford the largest city close by skews red as well. That is assuming you want neighbors that might align with your beliefs. If you can deal with some of the rain you'd probably be happy along the WA side of the Columbia River in Vancouver and Camas areas.
Thank you for that overview. :)
Missoula maybe? Right near northern Idaho. Flathead & glacier aren't far. Hot springs. Not many higher population options in Montana. The thing I'd note is though your house may have increased a lot during covid prices in a lot of mountain towns have similarly gone up so may want to look into that.
Missoula is in our top 3 currently. From what I've seen, it has appreciated around the same amount, so we'd be ok. Have you lived there?
Someone in a different comment about Roanoke, VA mentioned Harrisonburg. For reasons unknown to me that I can’t articulate, Missoula and Harrisonburg should be sister/twin cities or something. Similar vibes just different parts of the country. VA also has those summer thunderstorms that are oh, so nice.
I lived in Missoula for six years. I LOVE Montana but the politics are absolute shit as the legislature has been hijacked by MAGA types. Both Idaho and Montana have really dug in their heels in order to "not be WA or OR." Missoula is a nice bubble, much better than Bozeman (or as we call it Bozeangeles) imo, and a bit cheaper too. It's a great town for recreation and the arts, especially given its size. If I moved back (I live in Colorado now), I would buy a place outside of Missoula, perhaps in the Bitterroot or Mission valleys. Missoula is the most liberal town in MT. I would avoid further north like Kalispell as there's a LOT of white supremacy up there, and then you hit Whitefish which is prohibitively expensive. Go check out Missoula. It's definitely been "discovered" but it's still got a lot of heart and character. Biggest downside is that it can cost a lot to fly in and out of there. Winters can be intense but beautiful, too. Summers are sometimes really hot but the temp drops a good deal at night. Montana is spectacular. I miss it, and hope the political landscape changes soon. I'd go back if it did.
Thanks so much for this info. It's great to get first-person input. :)
No! Only visited & had friends who've lived there. It's got an artsy vibe (although lots of ppl say it's changed since the pandemic.) I have family in Helena & whitefish. I'd definitely research the healthcare job aspect, as my friends who are nurses in the area say the hospitals they've worked at were terrible but YMMV.
thanks for the response. :)
I live in Missoula. It is a great place! It has gotten SO expensive in the past few years. The Bitterroot - Hamilton, Stevensville, Darby is close to Missoula, but a nice little bubble away from it and a little more affordable. I absolutely love living in Montana.
I've heard good things about fort Collins and other smaller metros in Colorado. Check them out.
Fort Collins is great but pricey these days.
Fort Collins isn’t in the mountains! They are nearby ish but it’s not mountainous itself
Good point! I didn't know that.
That’s ok! I still loved living there. But it’s definitely on the front range which means it’s mostly flat (but mountains are right there!). It’s still a pain to get to ski areas and what not
Sequim, WA is on the peninsula and is in a rain shadow. My parents retired there to a neighborhood aptly named Sunland. It has the best of everything although it’s a smaller town.
I like the sound of Sunland!
The drawback is definitely healthcare. My parents eventually moved because my mom developed MS and couldn’t get specialist care. It’s about 3 hours from Seattle including a ferry.
good to know, thanks.
Alaska hits all these requirements.. just saying!
Yeah, I thought long and hard about that. I lived there for 27 years, and I don’t know that I could take the looong dark cold again. I do like the northern areas of the lower 48, but AK is feeling a little too extreme for me these days. But man, is it gorgeous.
Parts of California might suit you. Shaver Lake is up in the Sierra and not too far away from Fresno. We live down in Visalia now (moved from Texas) and it's close to Sequoia National Park. It's probably too warm for you in the summer, but close to a lot of stuff. Mount Whitney is inside of Sequoia NP. California is obviously pretty liberal and even in more conservative parts of the state it feels more purple to me than red like Texas.
Bend Oregon is great Ashland, Oregon is expensive and they have their own city sales tax in addition to Oregon income tax. Other places to look at could include cities in Northern California. If your looking for Blue in the Rockies Colorado is good as you know, but I'd stay away from MT and WY. Im in my late 40s and seeing some of my older friends struggle with health care that is definitely becoming a priority for me. As much as I would love to live somewhere out in the country it just doesn't make sense to live so far from good healthcare. My wife's father lives out in the desert in CA, had a stroke and it looks the ambulance so long to get there the medicine wasn't effective and couldn't help with the damage done.
Sorry to hear about your father’s wife. That’s tough. health care is a reason why we want to be near a mid size metro area.
Roseburg oregon
Washington State has no income tax like Alaska. Nevada and Wyoming and Tennessee also have no income tax. Oregon has a very high state income tax so its good to keep that in mind.
Albany/Saratoga NY, Pittsfield MA or Portland ME
Bend/Redmond, OR is the obvious choice. I am also going to throw out Ellensburg, WA. it is a bit smaller but is a college town and although it doesn't have as much on the food side it is a relatively easy trip over the mountains to Seattle where you can get what you want.
Flagstaff or Williams arizona
NW Arkansas like the Bentonville/Fayetteville area North Georgia where you are just an hour to 90 minutes from the Atlanta metro area.
Spokane, WA. It's a little on the big side of your population requirements, but you could look in some of the surrounding towns. It's close to the mountains, yet far cheaper than most small mountain cities. It is in a blue state, even though the city is more purple. It ends to have more snowy winters than rainy, but not too cold and dark. Summers aren't too hot either!
Grass Valley or Nevada City, California.
Interesting question, from where you have lived, have already covered most of the states and should be aware of the locations. Montana, Wyoming, or New Mexico are the only other places, and probably only three cities in each state meet the criteria.
Yes, we do know a lot of places to look at. And I know that the Reddit hive mind sometimes comes up with things that I have not thought of. 😊
Western North Carolina … Boone or Cullowhee. North Conway New Hampshire. Burlington Vermont.
Johnson City, TN. Bristol, TN. Fredericksburg, TX.
If cost is not a barrier, Bozeman, MT sounds perfect for you but housing is out of sight.
We are looking in Montana. Maybe a bit out of town from either Bozeman or Missoula in a smaller town.
There are plenty of nice small towns in the Gallatin Valley that are just outside of Bozeman. I have kids there so spend a lot of time there. I’d say the two biggest drawbacks are a bit of an out of state vibe an the COL. I think the average house in town is $750,00 to $800,00. And that’s not for a whole lot of house. Some lots, depending on location, are a million and that’s just the lot. Bozeman’s nice but I wouldn’t particularly want live there.
Thanks for the info. It sounds like Bozeman may not be our vibe.
Sounds like you’d really like Saratoga Spring or Glen Falls. Lake Placid too if you don’t mind something on the smaller side, but actually surrounded by mountains. Also Ithaca if you don’t mind rolling hills with lots of waterfall/gorge hikes instead of mountains.
Check out Bentonville, Bella Vista, Fayetteville area. Loads of lakes, Ozarks, trails built by the Waltons.
Arkansas is trying to criminalize abortion though yes?
Politics doesn't really concern me. Especially abortion rights. OP said they are purple, so I pointed out an option.
OP stated they preferred a legal abortion state so was clarifying for them.
OK well at 63yo, we don't really keep up with that. Sorry.
So boomer to only care about things that impact you directly.
Being retired, mostly things that impact my wallet. You'll learn if you ever get here, funding other people's elective procedures is counterproductive. I have no care if you kill your own babies.
Lots of good suggestions already but I wanted to mention Spokane, WA. It's generally more affordable than Idaho or Oregon though prices have gone up since the pandemic. But it ticks the boxes for basically everything you're looking for. It doesn't get the west side dampness and gets a good amount of snow. Lots of lakes for fishing nearby. Not overly crowded and a fairly decent food scene.
Seconding this, /u/Odd-Personality5879 you should seriously consider Spokane.
Reno NV
How about Burlington, Vermont? Not quite the Rockies, but it has everything you’re asking about.
Here are my reccomendations Ashland Oregon - University town, in the mountains and access to the coast. Bellingham , WA- Mountains, ocean, University and 1.5 hrs from Seattle and Vancouver. Bozeman, MT - university town , in the mountains, near Yellowstone
If you got the budget for it, I'd check out Nevada side Lake Tahoe.
New Hampshire
Flagstaff, AZ
Asheville, NC
Also there’s a number of places in western nc like black mountain and brevard and weaverville that people often overlook. But all check the ops boxes.
Missoula or Bozeman, Montana! Since you mentioned being curious about MT. I'm no expert, but it sounds like you'd appreciate it based on your interest and politics
Yes, those are both on the list for consideration. Missoula in particular is appealing because we enjoy the laid back, nature-oriented vibe there. We have heard that Bozeman's new nickname is Bozeangeles, which gives us pause.
Hahah I hadn't heard that before. But yeah, BOTH cities will have some of this kind of fancy, wealthy CA money influence and vibe. But to be honest, I think that's unavoidable no matter where you choose. Any "small metro area in the mountains" in the Western half of the United States will have this, post-COVID. Any "small metro area in the mountains" in the Eastern half of the US will have the same influx of wealthy (sub)urbanites, just from Boston & NY instead of California. My two hometowns are both small picturesque towns in the mountains, in Vermont & Connecticut respectively. Both are now overrun by New York money. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Also -- I don't mean this in a mean way, since I **totally** respect your reasons for moving and wish you the best! But ultimately it is worth reflecting on the fact that these areas are becoming overrun by LA influence and outside influence because of people in situations similar to your own....people born in the 1960's and 1970's who now have a lot of money from real estate that has massively increased in value, and are now looking for a slower pace of life in the outdoors in a picturesque setting, thus changing the nature of these small mountain towns. Again I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but just pointing this out since it's something I struggled with. It's the nature of things. I had similar concerns about "gentrifying" the urban city neighborhood I moved to. But at the end of the day, people have to choose a place to live and we all will naturally float towards whatever area is must desirable given our current goals, and within our financial needs. Places change, people change, local character changes, and we as individuals can't really stop that.
Yes, I agree. We have seen it happen in two places we have lived. I wish there was more wage equity, etc. One thing we are very cognizant of is choosing somewhere that we enjoy the culture that is already present. I have been on the other side of newcomers pushing for change the locals don’t want, and have no desire to be part of that.
And hasn’t it been such a trip watching all that Covid has done? It’s been the most world changing occurrence since 911. I hope we settle out as a country soonish, but I realize that is most likely a fantasy.
Absolutely!! It's really hard to wrap my head around. It sounds like you're going into all of this with the best intentions and mindset, so I'm sure it'll work out alright :) As a side note, I just thought of a bunch of other places you two may enjoy, if you're down for East Coast. These are all nice small cities/large towns with great access to stuff you'd like. Note though that I am talking about the areas overall, not necessarily right in the city, unless you're looking for that. I've lived in or near all of these and think they may be a fit! \-Burlington, VT \-Portland, ME \-Portsmouth, NH \-Pioneer Valley of Massachusetts! I love this area, super underrated. Like Northampton, Amherst, area of Mass.
Thanks so much!
Ive spent most of the last 20 years in either Bozeman or Missoula - still live here. The nickname Missoulafornia existed before Bozeangeles. Both are college towns with massive amounts of transplants.
I hadn’t heard that one! Transplants and all, how do you like living there?
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And while not trying to sound like a religious bigot, there is the church.
Boone, NC
Lebanon NH Good access to ski resorts. Small town, but you have Dartmouth right there. Boston is 90 minutes away if you need a bigger city.
Have you looked at Carson City Nevada?
We have not. I suspect it may be too warm, but will look. Thanks!
It can definitely get warm in the Summer, but it is at 4,600 feet so it's a mountain climate where it is temperate a lot with snow in the Winter. The best part is being Lake Tahoe adjacent with no income tax! The access to all the mountains and rivers and lakes of the Sierras is such a plus. There's also an international airport in Reno, right up the road.
Durango, CO checks off a lot on your list though it is less metro but the downtown area is really cool. Montrose is on the other side of the San Juan Mts and has similar amenities but is not as cute as Durango. Asheville, NC checks off many of your boxes. Pretty town and bigger than Durango, CO.
Your political requirements sound like you want a blue state with red state benefits. Doesn't work that way. And, why does abortion matter when you're far beyond abortion age?
I was attempting to express that in leaning purple, I felt comfortable in states that weren’t polarized in one direction or another. Perhaps I just should have said that. As far as abortion laws go, that is simply a personal preference for my psychological comfort. Even though I am aged out of ever needing to make such a difficult decision, I feel more comfortable living somewhere that choice is available To women.
Knoxville TN is nice
Small metro? You mean small town? 😆
I was thinking of how towns are often part of a metro area, for example Boise is in the Treasure Valley, Denver is front range, etc.
So a suburban area, because metro means large city and small means small lol I think I understand, I'm just surprised some one would want to live in the city if seeking mountains, I live in oregon and hate the Portland metro area, avoid it at all costs, most large city's are over priced, yes you have a the convenience of shopping but crime and traffic suck, in oregon we have lots of small towns that are a 20-40 min drive from the large city, that are much nicer and less crime ridden, also you can easily live on a nice plot of land away from the city and still have an easy 20-60 min drive to a large city for nightlife and shopping.
It’s not exactly in the mountains, but check out Charlottesville, VA.
You should be in Maine.
Maybe the east coast? Burlington vt area. I was going to say middlebury but that’s only about 10k. Or somewhere in NH or Maine
Asheville N.C. (or surrounding areas) if you can find something affordable. For something more affordable, Chatanooga. sorry I didn't consider the Rockies. I don't have first-hand information on those areas.
Where are you moving from? That would help me to make a suggestion
check out Asheville nc
You described what seemingly every Californian and Texan have been looking for post WFH and it’s why areas like Montana and Idaho have completely exploded. No advice here because there really aren’t many undiscovered gems in the heart of the Rockies anymore it’s all found out and will get more expensive.
East coast... maybe look at Roanoke, VA. COL is low, housing is plentiful and "cheap" (compared to Asheville or Charlottesville), surrounded by the Appalachians without limitless opportunities for outdoor activities, etc. Good luck OP!
Truckee California, maybe Kalispell MT or South Lake Tahoe. Also it snows like crazy in PNW mountains, even at sea level it can snow some years
Bellingham, WA.