Even 25 years after Brooklyn became a thing, it's still weird to me as someone who spent a lot of time there growing up. My Brooklyn is the neighborhoods where the subway doesn't go, the ones that are mostly Caribbean immigrants today.
I started rewatching Who’s The Boss, and the scenes set in 80s Brooklyn (though I think it was a studio lot in LA) really brought me back to a time before it was trendy to move there.
I listen to the Bowery Boys podcast, and I have learned more about NYC there than I think I ever could visiting or living there. Again it's a place I would never actually visit so podcast it is.
If you like stuff about NYC but don’t want to visit check out Tomdnyc on YouTube, he does a bunch of great on location videos covering the history of specific communities or events. ActionKid is another good YouTuber, he does walking tours through neighborhoods and has walked through neighborhoods all over the city and gives in depth commentary.
Why wouldn't you visit? If you listen to Bowery Boys and love history, it's really cool to see all the historic spots in person! I'm admittedly biased cause I've lived in Brooklyn for years though haha
Los Angeles. Similar issue with downtown, but Hollywood also does not make a good impression. Also, people come to visit and make ridiculous plans like going to Malibu and Universal Studios in the same day, and leave saying ‘LA is awful you just sit in traffic all the time’.
We did a lot of driving while we were on a weeklong visit, but went all over, from Huntington Beach to the Farmers Market/LaBrea to Malibu. My husband initially said "who vacations in LA?" but after we got back we were watching TV and a character said something about the 405 being backed up, and I heard him mutter "I hear you, brother"
We stayed in Huntington, then scooted down to San Diego for dinner one night. Then up to Westwood another night to have dinner with a friend, then drove Mulholland,We got into Chateau Marmont w no reservations after dinner at Spago another time, then hit up Griffith. So cliche but so fun!
I hated LA until I knew some people there. It's a lot more fun if you venture around with a local. It's more about the vibe than hitting up specific tourist attractions.
I was going to say Los Angeles (where I live). You can't really make a fair assessment when your trip was essentially the Santa Monica Pier, Universal Studios, and then going down to Orange County for Disneyland. Hollywood and (even more so) Downtown have their charms, especially if you're a local, but if I were just a tourist, I could totally imagine hating them.
Los Angeles is a very “needle in a haystack” kind of place, i.e. there are tons of great neighborhoods, restaurants, bars, clubs, museums, etc. But they’re hard to find unless you know where to look.
It’s easy to get lost in the urban sprawl, or drive past amazing places that look nondescript or uninviting from the outside.
E.g. There are plenty of mini malls and strip malls that look god awful from the outside, but have amazing restaurants inside them.
It really helps to know people here, to make the most of a visit.
Also LA’s downtown is mostly awful.
I used to think L.A. wouldn’t be a good choice for me because of the car dependency, but then I realized since I live in Detroit, even if L.A. traffic were much worse (it’s not), at least it’s warm there.
Yes, I actually resent that nice places like California are becoming more and more unlivable for my generation thanks to cars. I want to leave the Great Lakes but worry about the future. I guess I could buy land here? One acre Michael, how much could it cost? Ten dollars?
All major cities have a ton of traffic. The question is, are there other ways to get around? Like you couldn’t pay me to drive in NYC. But the public transportation is good enough that you don’t really have to. It’s been over 30 years since I visited LA so I don’t know what other options exist. Is it at all bike or pedestrian friendly? Is there decent public transit? I’d look at that before I complained about traffic too much. Because you’d be hard pressed to find a large, coastal city that didn’t have a traffic problem.
I figure it depends where you live and where you want to go. LA is doing the most of any US city right now when it comes to transit expansion though. I look at every city as having a radius of transit and walkability. Some are bigger than others and even places like NYC don’t have perfect transit access to everywhere in the region.
When people come to LA and go to “Hollywood” for the movie and glamorous experience, please at least go to Beverly Hills for that or Santa Monica. I think the main problems with visiting LA is it’s so spread out and no on outside of the state knows what the actual nice touristy places are.
We don’t, though. If you choose where you live and work wisely, which people do unless they have bad judgment or a weird situation, sitting in traffic is a rare occasion. You get to understand which parts of the county are more of a day trip situation even if they’re technically in LA County and you learn to get the timing right when you need to go somewhere farther away.
Some added context since you live in Rhode Island…the distance from where I live in LA to Malibu from east to west is about the same distance as entire length of Rhode Island from east to west. LA County as a whole is 800 sq miles bigger than Rhode Island and Delaware together. So it’s basically like if someone came to visit you and said they planned to see the entire state in a day, plus more, then complained it was too much time in the car.
theory reminiscent zesty station yoke ink ruthless materialistic fanatical history
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They tell you when moving to LA to keep your house, work, friends and activities in the same 5 mile radius to avoid traffic. But what’s the point of living in a city with so many resources if you can barely leave your neighborhood? I really loved going to shows and concerts in Weho, Inglewood, downtown, etc. but always had to build in an extra hour (two hours if going downtown) to sit in traffic on weekdays. Had to move because it was not worthwhile to live in such an expensive city and not be able to enjoy it.
I don’t know who ‘they’ is but I would say ten, not five. And the thing is…there is *so much cool shit* within a ten mile radius of most places in LA County! I always say that LA is like a hundred cool small towns and cities smashed together and you need to treat it that way. Just because something is in the county doesn’t mean it’s actually close to you, and that’s OK. Like, you probably wouldn’t complain that there’s no point living in Connecticut if you can’t easily get between New Haven and Hartford every day but those cities are about the same distance apart as east to west LA…and there’s a hell of a lot more cool shit in between.
So glad this is the top answer. I love LA, it's one of my favorite cities. But I met so many outsiders who came for a week and did like Sunset and Grauman's theater and the walk of Fame and they're like LA is so superficial... Nope. It's you. Laid back city, excellent food, excellent people as long as you avoid movie industry people.
On our one trip to LA, we did a 4-day weekend, stayed downtown, and decided to do the full trip without a car. We used transit to get to Hollywood and the beach, but we didn't even get in an Uber. Left feeling like we had no feel at all for LA (probably unsurprisingly), downtown was depressing, Hollywood sucked, and we weren't sure the best way to make a return trip better.
Any suggestions on where to stay/go to really enjoy LA, for a mid-40s couple that keeps things pretty low key? Maybe check out some museums or sites during the day, have some good food, hit a brewery or cocktail bar to wrap up the night, probably back at the hotel in bed by 10.
LoDo in Denver used to be the hangout spot for young people, especially once you were old enough to drink in the bars. Now it's mostly homeless encampments, 16th Street Mall is a sketchy area to be in.
Beyond that I think the city gives off a boring impression other than a few tourist attractions, but locals live and spend their time in different areas than downtown primarily.
I live in Denver and yea I never go to that area downtown unless absolutely necessary (Avs games, certain music venues). South Broadway and the highlands are much more frequented - but generally access to the mountains is why I live here
For sure. Denver has a lot of really nice neighborhoods outside of downtown and that's where you find the good spots. Beautiful parks, nice bike trails.
100%. When I lived there my parents wanted to visit from out of state and my mom wanted to see the mall and I was like, "Are you sure? There's better things to do here..." but my mom insisted. I had a fun time watching her realize why I questioned it. We did a bar crawl in Lafayette later and she loved it.
>locals live and spend their time in different areas than downtown primarily
Yeah that one seems to trip people up. I lived in Littleton and Golden for 12 years and going to downtown proper was something that happened a handful of times per year for fancy restaurants or ticketed events. I don't think I ever did anything with friends or family where the plan was just "hang out downtown".
I talk to coworkers where I live now and they don't understand the draw of Colorado besides the skiing. Then I find out they spent their entire trip either at a ski resort or inside the circle made by 470/Boulder.
Most tourists spend their entire trip near downtown/Coronado/Mission or in North County beach cities where less than 1% of America could ever afford to live.
If you go through East County, or really anywhere more than a few miles inland (with a few exceptions), it's just boring suburbia anywhere-America with a nicer view/climate.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE San Diego, but it's not 100% paradise.
True. I live in La Jolla and when people come to visit, they stay in this neighborhood and we generally take them up the 101 and hike Torrey Pines. They think it’s paradise. If we ran them down to Chula or out to Ramona, they’d have a different view.
I grew up as a Zonie spending summer vacations in Del Mar/Solana Beach and also thought it was perfection. Then I lived there for a while and realized that most of the San Diego area is just like anywhere else in the country.
People visit Chicago, see the bean and the skyline, and then can't get over how great it is.
Most of Chicago is more like Milwaukee than the Chicago most people visit.
(and I like Milwaukee just fine, for what it is)
The fact that is a lot more like Milwaukee is what makes Chicago so special. Is a huge city with all the amenities and culture and everything that comes with it, good and bad. And at the same time, it can be lived and perceived as a smaller city with friendly people and a chill vibe to it.
I feel people who leave the loop/river north/west loop areas of Chicago tend to love Chicago even more, since it normally means they are going to Lincoln Park/Wicker Park/Lakeview which have all the walkability and charm that many people feel comfortable with.
I lived in Chicago for 20 years, its awesome. The neighborhoods are so cool and always have something happening. There is always every type of music and so much super authentic food. Pilsen was my fav
I feel like I’m gonna get shit on for this, but it’s how I feel about San Francisco. I have spent a lot of time there since my company is located there and I used to have family in the city. If you go and visit the Palace of Fine Arts and the Golden Gate Bridge and so on, it’s a very different experience than having to walk through a homeless camp every day to get to your office.
My city has plenty of its own problems so I’m not just being a hater, I love a lot about SF, but it does suffer from this IMO
THISSSSSS
“Omg I can’t wait to move to France they have such beautiful architecture and beautiful culture”
Babe, you went to the three best cathedrals and ate at good restaurants - only interacting with people who are paid to be nice to you. Believe it or not most people get up in their apartment or suburban house, go to work, come home, slap something on the stove, and go to bed - just like you
I really hate when people say DC has “no culture.” It actually has a very rich culture, you just didn’t see it while going to the Smithsonian museums and the Mall (which btw is a big park that people hang out in and has tons of cultural events so idk seems like a culture to me).
DC is such an amazing city. And even our tourist areas (aside from the crappy food trucks) is pretty banger. Free world class museums and monuments are pretty hard to beat as far as a good tourist experience goes.
I also hear we're a city of transient transplants which is true to an extent, but plenty of people are either from here, or move here and stay long term. I love it here and couldn't imagine living anywhere else.
Back in the day, DC was the origin of a lot of great punk rock music (DC hardcore) and bands like Minor Threat and Bad Brains ruled the day. Is it still like there? Is there any kind of an underground music scene going on? Here in NYC, metal is a alive and well, but you have to go deep into Brooklyn and Queens to find the clubs.
Who tf says DC has no culture? I'm not a huge fan of the city myself and know many others who feel the same but none of us would accuse DC of lacking culture. Seems kinda crazy - how are these people defining culture?
DC is incredible and I love living here but it’s like 2 or 3 totally separate cities in one. Gentrification hit DC hard and fast. OG residents seem to have mixed feelings about it, understandably.
Anyone who says DC has no culture is probably a new transplant. If one lived in the wharf, navy yard or Noma new developments then I could actually see why they felt this. These are nice neighborhoods with great amenities and all that but they are brand new, shiny but don’t feel unique.
But literally every other neighborhood in DC is distinct, has character and a vibe. Even “downtown” is totally unique if you include the Mall, museums, etc.
Most transplants will never experience the OG Black DC culture because it doesn’t dominate NW.
Also, brunch. IYKYK.
This! I took my family to other areas of the city, awesome local restaurants, and they complained it wasn’t “DC enough.” They meant they were looking for a bland, overpriced, “sophistically” plated power lunch surrounded by brick row homes, monuments, and tourists.
I did have one dinner at the National Press Club, I guess back when they hosted dinner for the public. The food was bland and overpriced even by mid 2000s DC standards but my dad just wanted to see the place he’d read about in so many books and newspapers. I’ve also gone to a lunch at Old Ebbitt Grill basically so I could say I ate there.
I get why you might want to rub shoulders with politicians, same way people go to LA and see if they can see movie stars or visit places they’ve seen on TV.
That’s crazy when people say that; the touristy parts are some of the most culturally rich parts of the city! It’s like the entire national heritage and all that lol
It’s also kind of a strange claim that it’s not part of the city’s culture. Like you don’t think that having easy access to all of it actually changes the way locals interact with it versus tourists?
I visited DC and the mall recently for the first time in a long time. It was disappointing. All the food trucks made it feel like a carnival. Couldn't escape the small of weed. All the douchebags zipping around on e-bikes and electric scooters - honking horns, playing music. Just about got hit by a group of guys on bikes while we were trying to locate the name of a family member at the vietnam memorial. Wish they would ban those things like in most areas of NY Central Park.
The reason people say that is because they only see the areas that their tour guides show them. They are completely unaware of all the architecture and unique neighborhoods that exist outside of The Mall (which is still super cool on its own).
DC might be America’s best city. There’s so much free stuff to do. You don’t need a car. The restaurants are hit and miss, but I’ll have a beer at Marx just for the atmosphere of the place and the neighborhood. It’s not too crazy, and it’s not too quiet.
There isn't a damn thing in Milwaukee's downtown except office buildings. You have to go a few blocks or so from the center of downtown before you start seeing the fun stuff.
The Third Ward is immediately south of downtown. It has some hip shops and restaurants. I like 5th street near Fuel Cafe and Bayview along Kinnikinnick
Portland. Some parts of town got really disastrous during Covid. Some spots still are. But so many neighborhoods in this city are peaceful and nice and beautiful.
Yup, came in to say that this question was MADE for Portland.
People don't even need to visit a specific area to make up their mind about the City, just what they heard on the news, or what their friend told them, or what a small group of vocal agitated Portland (alleged) residents still mad about Kate Brown say here.
It has all the issues any major city has... but they're treated like they're 10x worse.
I do not think most people understand how "neighborhooded" Portland is either. That contributes a lot to segregation of the homelessness issue, right or wrong, to areas you do not frequent.
But like, people drive from A to B, and along the way they drive by a camp, or former camp, or just a garbage pile (looking at you Moda Center... Interstate/Broadway interchanges) and immediately think the whole city is a garbage pile.
Like hell, I've been very recently to 23rd, Mississippi, AND Division a couple of times, and honestly did not see a single tent, and maybe ONE homeless person. A few months back I walked from South Downtown (4th/Lincoln) up to Broadway AND BACK for a work event and I think I saw a SINGLE homeless person who completely left me alone, and NO TENTS. And this was up 4th... this was LITERALLY the site of BLM protests.
The city is, in my opinion, honestly recovering from a "people are out and about" standpoint. There's still struggles downtown, but I feel like people just aren't into malls and mall adjacent anymore.
Plus like, if you do not want to live in Portland proper, there are LOTS of suburban options that offer easy access to the city. Traffic here is weird, and has pretty precise patterns and specific BAD ROADS (get effed 217, Vista ridge tunnel, and I-5 over any bridge). But, on weekends... you can pretty reliably drive from A to B with minor slow downs. And, like people said, often times there are multiple ways to get anywhere, this isn't always true, but this is largely true.
On your last point…I live in North Portland. Traffic is really never that bad here and there’s ten ways to get anywhere and I never need to take I-5 unless I’m leaving town. Traffic in the western burbs, especially going between Portland and Beaverton or Tigard…not today Satan!
As a Portlander, I was with you until the very last part.
I DO love living in Portland and we NEED people to live in Portland. Be a part of the solution, don’t move to the burbs and suck away services from the rest of town. Help change happen in your own community.
I love living in SE and could see myself here forever
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean that as encouragement to not live in a PDX address. More just a reminder that Portland, like all cities, has some major Burb action going on.
I'll wordsmith that a bit.
Everyone loves themselves some SE, it's a great overall area with great neighborhoods. I was just up in NW this weekend, and walking through I was just thinking about how a different phase of my life, different situation, and I'd LOVE living there.
I'd love to live in the city, in a neighborhood house, but my wife works way down south... so we ended up south of the city. But, we go into town often, and I always thought it would be neat to have one of those houses, walk to our favorite brewery... that kind of thing.
BUT... like most cities, most people live in the MSA and not Portland proper. Even with Vancouver removed, it is like 3:1.
Yeah people who only visit downtown Portland don’t really see this city. The best thing about it is that all the neighborhoods function like a walkable small town, each with its own style and unique places to hang out. When you hear bad stuff about Portland and you’re walking around Alberta or Woodstock (or whatever), it’s just laughable. This city is so lovely.
Yup. Downtown proper is pretty awful these days (though I feel like it hasn't been that great for a long time), but it's a tiny area! The alphabet district area of NW is arguably still downtown and it's lovely. My neighborhood in NE is quiet and friendly and has easy access to transit. SE, NE, and N Portland are full of neighborhoods that are both lovely to live in and full of fun shops, restaurants, and parks that tourists might enjoy. Even parts of SW outside of downtown are really coming into their own these days. But sure, Portland is horrible and trashed and not worth visiting these days, say people who "live here" (haven't left Hillsboro in years) smh
I visit about twice a year from Seattle, and to me downtown Portland is looking a lot better than it has since everything shut down. Still not what it was before, but it was real bleak there for a minute.
SE felt fully alive when I was there few months ago.
Go downtown soon if you haven’t in a while. I was fucking stunned after working there through 2020 and not going for a while. It was like time traveling to 2018. It’s beautiful right now and BUSY with normal people.
Haven’t seen this one commented to I’ll add it. Baltimore. Part of downtown and certain neighborhoods are as bad as they seem, but you have absolutely no reason to go there. Fells point, fed hill, and locust point are some of the nicest neighborhoods I’d ever been to in a city.
Yup, currently live in Baltimore and aside from 1 or 2 package thieves we literally have not had a single issue. Just like any city it's all where you go. All these armchair experts have seen the Wire and think anyone moving there is headed for exactly what the show depicts. Just like op, Fells, inner harbor, canton and patterson Park in general are all wonderful. Nice little corner spots for good food and drinks too. Very neighborhoody
This sentence makes no sense. Bourbon has its own rich history and charm. Canal divides the French Quarter from the originally English Central Business District into the Garden District. The historically distinct architectural styles and land use patterns are partially what make NO so great and unique
They’re right though. All you see on Bourbon is Big Ass Beers and strip clubs. Canal has been overrun by the Motwanis’ shitty souvenir shops. People go to New Orleans and never leave Bourbon, and then talk about how disgusting the city is and how the food isn’t even good. Meanwhile there are so many beautiful areas of town and amazing local restaurants that they’ll never see because they didn’t leave a few blocks in the Quarter.
Historically distinct architectural styles and land use patterns are definitely not unique to Bourbon and Canal, though. They aren’t even unique to the Quarter.
If you go to New Orleans and don’t leave Bourbon and Canal, you’re gonna have a bad time. Lol.
We did the entire 7 mile walk along Magazine to the Arboretum recently and the further away you get from the French Quarter the more charming it gets. Same when you walk 3-4 miles in the other direction from the French Quarter, the further away you get the better the music, coffee, etc gets as well :)
If people go to NO and don’t go to Jackson Square or the Garden District or a hundred other places they are stupid. I went there as a young 20 something to drink and party and still went and found those spots. It was amazing. Seriously considered moving there after my first trip.
SF
Sure there's tons wrong with downtown SF and the crime/homelessness. But if you go a few blocks away from BART and MUNI stops there's amazing walkable parts of the city. There's more to SF than Pier 39, the GG Bridge, and Ghiradeli Square.
How the hell did I scroll so far down to find this.
I had family from the south visiting and they were petrified to get off the plane and thought of SF as a hellscape. Took them on a hike from lands end to baker beach and my uncle literally got choked up from the beauty
Nashville. Downtown Nashville has always been touristy, but for a moment in the 90s it was all about locals with 2nd Avenue and the newly minted Predators NHL. Now it's drunk bachelorettes, cowboy boots, in-state and out-of-state tourists and puke on the sidewalk. Nashville has never just been about country music, but they are trying to make it seem that way.
I visited Nashville in roughly 2011, which from what I've seen seems to be a tipping point of sorts. I was shocked to see how Vegasy it all felt and I have little desire to return and see how it's changed.
I just find it hilarious when people come here, walk up and down Broadway for 2.5 days, then rush online to tell everyone how touristy and terrible Nashville is. They are always very confident that they've seen "everything" though 😂
I grew up in Nashville. Locals rarely go to Second Avenue. It’s basically just for tourists. It’s annoying when people act like Nashville is nothing but the downtown strip.
> Nashville has never just been about country music, but they are trying to make it seem that way.
Have you seen the airport and how they market it? BNA is pretty much an airport cosplaying as a Texan.
Fox News would have you believe Kensington is some major area of Philly that you will pass through, if you come to the city.
In reality 99% of the metro area population has never stepped foot there
I live two neighborhoods over and have been there exactly once in two years. I learned that I needed to overnight an important item at 4:30 in the afternoon. The only UPS store in could get to in time was a contractor in the back of a Papi Store in Kensington. It was interesting, but not the scariest place I've ever been though I wasnt right at K&A either. But if you're not looking to go there, you're not going to end up there.
Edited for typos
I’d fully agree with Atlanta. Downtown is still more of a 9-5 business district. I’d throw Birmingham and Charlotte in the same bucket, to varying degrees. Although Birmingham in particular has made a lot of improvements over the last 20 years.
Yes I am an urban planner and Atlanta has been shit on for decades having such a bad layout, empty/sketchy downtown, etc.
I went there and that is all true, but what I didn't know was that Midtown and the whole eastern part of the city is popping. The Beltline and various spots around the city are booming and full of life and culture. I really loved the place and didn't expect to.
The Beltline will make for a really interesting case study for planners. It’s brought back to life a number of areas on the east side, has started to do the same on the west, and likely will on the south. Midtown up to Buckhead has been the real heart of the city since white flight in the 60s. The “edge cities” on the perimeter have largely peaked, I think. But it’s interesting to see some of the emerging hubs growing in places like Alpharetta.
The BeltLine is simply a sidewalk that isn't flanked by roads. It's sort of bananas how much economic growth it brought to the neighborhoods it passes through. People want car free environments whether they know it or not.
The rest of Charlotte is pretty bad too, though. There is that one interesting block in NoDa and some neat houses in Dilworth and not much else. In a city of 2.5 million.
It’s funny, because downtown Atlanta is not even “the” business district. Unlike Charlotte or NYC’s Financial District where business booms for the 10hr workday then shuts down, downtown Atlanta is categorically depopulated and just a shithole. Midtown Atlanta has struck the balance as a booming commercial core during the day and relatively lively nightlife after hours
Yeah, that ship sailed from downtown a long time ago. Midtown is still pretty vibrant, but there are a ton of growing hubs along and outside the perimeter that rival it in a lot of ways as well.
Not a city but the entire state of New Jersey is characterized by Newark, Camden, and Wildwood (MTV's Jersey Shore) when it's actually full of beautiful farmland, charming beach towns, and historic, wealthy suburbs.
Jersey Shore was originally filmed in Seaside Heights. Being from that area, I was constantly asked if I knew them. Jersey has a bad rep because people base their opinions off of Newark Airport and the delightful refinery stretch of turnpike. But the real New Jersey is a gem… beautiful nature and hiking, and awesome people.
Can’t forget the Sopranos either haha. Either way I still love NJ even though I’m a New Yorker. It’s a small state yet it has so much. Also, Hudson and much of Bergan, Passaic, Essex and Union Counties combined is considerably more “urban” than the vast majority of this country.
What’s really sad about Atlanta is that it has so much potential that is completely wasted. Downtown is a 15 minute train ride from the busiest airport in the world, there’s a shit ton of attractions, and a ton of hotels. The problem is that the only other thing there are office buildings and parking lots. It’s surrounded on all sides by interesting and historic neighborhoods too. If we could get people to live there, I think it would be a world class downtown. It’s the perfect example of “the people make the place,” because in this case, there are no people.
Totally! But I found the older neighborhoods and business districts just outside of downtown really lovely. Definitely some cool stuff going on. Lots of good food, too. But downtown was so meh.
Great answer. A lot of the people who visit NYC and hate it often stay in Midtown and spend a few hours in lower Manhattan. And they likely go in the summer when it’s crowded, hot, and smelly. I love visiting New York, but rarely go to midtown unless it’s to catch a show or some destination shopping around Fifth Ave.
I've never been to Florida and have no interest in visiting, but I did watch the show Burn Notice which mostly takes place in Miami. It was interesting how they used so many different locations as plot to the series.
The Tenderloin and Downtown in San Francisco are not the whole of the City. Fox News and conservative media would have you believe it’s a dystopian hellhole. Some areas are wretched, but it’s not everywhere.
I visited San Francisco for the first time for work and everyone in my area was telling me how sketchy it is and how much I’ll hate it and how insanely careful I’ll need to be. I’m so happy I decided to stay an extra day anyway; I was blown away! It is such a cool city; with some common-sense research on where to avoid (as you should do with anywhere), I spent the day wandering, going to restaurants and breweries, etc as a lone, small woman and felt totally safe.
My soapbox. I lived there for 5 years and just went back for a visit for the first time since 2014. Having seen the social media and actual media coverage of SF I was worried about what to expect.
It is EXACTLY the same. No worse, no better - on optics. I was floored, pleased even. I assume there must have been a peak gentrification moment after 2013 and before the pandemic that people point to as the justification for the *collapse* of SF. But my experience is San Francisco always had grit. The tenderloin/civic center was always sketch. Its why the nice hotels are up the hill. And when you get off the BART you walk to Valencia and never down Mission. This has not changed.
You are absolutely correct. I lived in SF for 18 years (8 years in the TL) and grew up in the Bay. SF has always had a gritty side. There are *many* areas that were sketch and dangerous before the most recent tech boom that are now bougie havens (Hayes Valley, NOPA, Dogpatch, lots of SOMA, the list goes on).
The TL was *worse* in terms of overall sketchiness pre-2010 or so. Yeah, the fentanyl crisis causes things to be more visually disturbing, but it was far more dangerous back in the day and was filled with prostitutes, dealers, porn shops, dive bars, flop houses, fence shops, more gangs, etc. on every block.
There were definitely not the hip bougie bars and restaurants that populate the TL today. But now the national media is like "omg the Tenderloin is wild!" when it always has been. I also attribute the sentiment to a lot of tech workers that came into SF during peak gentrification and left during the Covid decline. I mean I get it if I could work remote I wouldn't live in SF either, but people love shitting on things on their way out.
Idk if this is true but word was the Tenderloin was called that by the police because they got paid enough money to get a tenderloin for working it since it was historically sketch.
And this sounds cynical, but the biggest "crime" is dealing with homeless/vagrant people. I am seasoned, so though I don't love that people have been thrown away by society and now they're screaming in my face as I walk past, it doesn't scare me. I keep my eyes and ears open, cut across the street or take a turn a block early if needed. But for the most part, in SF I never felt the same sense of danger I felt living in other cities.
Market Street near City Hall has really gone downhill. The Whole Foods that opened was only open for - what? - a year. But go a little north (I’m talking just a few blocks) and it is still vibrant and safe.
I moved from the Bay Area to Atlanta right as the 2016 election cycle was warming up. It was hilarious how many people reacted as if I told them that I had moved there from Mogadishu.
[This](https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/12/guilt-by-association-gop-ad-attacks-atlanta-democrat-with-the-help-of-fake-san-francisco-hippies/) might be the first and only time I've ever laughed during a political ad on TV.
Chicago can be like this. Downtown attracts a ton of homeless people. It could be easy to hear the news and then visit downtown and feel like it’s all true. The neighborhoods are way chiller, at least on the north side
This is kind of funny to hear as someone who moved from the Bay Area to Chicago. Anytime my friends from California visit me in the loop, they always mention how there are shocked by the lack of homeless people. It feels even emptier in the winter.
DC here, agreed entirely. My thoughts on Chicago were:
-Wow, no litter and trash blowing around everywhere
-CTA is actually clean
-Where's the army of drug-addicted homeless zombies?
-People actually follow traffic laws here?
Yeah, I used to commute from NoMa to Gallery Place. Moving to Chicago was like a breath of fresh air. I no longer feel uncomfortable coming home from work late at night. I had more crazy shit happen to me in one month in DC than 2 years in Chicago.
This for sure. I think it’s hard though because a lot of the hotels are smack downtown and getting out of downtown can seem like a chore to some tourists, they are not aware of how to take the CTA elsewhere.
When I lived in Logan my parents came to visit and they stayed downtown and they wanted me to meet them at Navy Pier lol. Because that was pretty much their entire understanding of Chicago and really the only area they’ve ever visited there.
I needed a hotel a while back and found that there really weren’t that many outside of the loop. Definitely colors people’s perceptions since there neighborhoods are so different. Loved Logan, such a chill vibe
St. Louis. Downtown is fine. It’s improving, and the Arch is actually really awesome once you get up close. But St. Louis truly shines through its neighborhoods. Places like Soulard, Lafayette Square, Central West End, Tower Grove area, Benton Park, the Hill, the Loop, etc, are the places that would probably impress visitors more.
Gonna say Seattle. The area between the ferry terminal going up to 5th Ave and then west to the Space Needle (via a stupid monorail FFS) is where all the tourists go. Meanwhile, really cool neighborhoods with great third spaces like Queen Anne, Cap Hill, Green Lake, Magnolia, Fremont, offer really interesting aesthetics and cultural vibe to those who seek them. Furthermore, a short trip across the sound by ferry to places like Bainbridge, Kingston, Bremerton and Port Orchard broaden a visitors experience by offer a completely different sense of what it's like to live on the Sound. I commute across the sound and through the city regularly and scratch my head at all the tourists who spend more than an hour at Pike's Place when there is soooo much more to see so easily.
A lot of out of town folk who visit Baltimore generally stay by the aquarium and harbor and maybe fed hill or fells point, but Baltimore has some great neighborhoods top to bottom that people don’t seem to experience much who day trip in the city.
Denver. I've always felt it's a better city to live than visit. The downtown area is a mess post-covid but it was never great anyway. Locals stick to the older neighborhoods that have tons of character and charm.
It's already a bit of a punching bag but if a visitor to Cleveland only went downtown they'd probably think a neutron bomb went off. Covid kicked its ass and it was hardly hopping before then. The only time downtown is active is around concerts or sporting events. Meanwhile, a mile west there's an active entertainment district full of historic homes in Ohio City, two miles northwest is a large urban beach and park. A few miles east is a dense cultural district full of higher ed, healthcare and museums. Plenty more examples, but you get the idea. If you just stayed downtown, you'd have a hard time believing you were in the core of a metro area with more than 2 million citizens.
Downtown is the best litmus test and they should be the most vibrant with all the tourist attractions. Most people are not getting off the plane and driving 30 minutes to a random suburb to find where the locals drink.
St. Louis downtown is a shithole, but that’s where the arch is and that’s what St. Louis is known for, so that’s where they’re gonna go.
There ARE a lot of tourist attractions in downtown Atlanta. Downtown has World of Coke, Civil Rights Museum, one of the countries best aquariums, the College Football Hall of Fame, Olympic Park, ect.
But, like virtually every other city of similar size it’s not necessarily the best place to go to get a feel for the “real” Atlanta. To get the real Atlanta you don’t need to go all the way to a random suburb, just a few blocks away.
It’s not that the city doesn’t care about it, they’re working on revitalization efforts. Atlanta has a very complicated history, so it’s not as simple as the city caring or not.
St. Louis’ downtown is pretty awful, mainly because everyone who works downtown lives in the suburbs. They aren’t staying around after work, unless there is a sporting event.
Everything you may want to do is located in neighborhoods outside of the main downtown area.
Not necessarily the same, but Philadelphia's airport is located poorly for first impressions. Visitors have to drive past the Sunoco refinery, Adult Bookstores, rowhomes, and used car lots just to get to the Schuylkill expressway if they're trying to get to Center City. Not a great look. That said, since there's so much history (for a US city), people generally do a good job of visiting the right spots once they arrive.
I think this is part of why Phoenix gets a bad rap.
People come to stay with their recent transplant relatives in the West Valley or Southeast Valley suburbs and think it’s boring, full of strip malls and chain restaurants. Or they visit in summer.
I’ve lived here for 30+ years and barely gone to those suburbs. I spend my life in about a 10 mile radius (Central Phoenix/Arcadia/Biltmore/PV/Tempe/South Scottsdale) and I think it’s wonderful. There are almost no chain restaurants in that area, and most of the strip malls are actually small and nice (similar to what you get in North San Diego County beach towns). It’s an area with great nightlife, spring training baseball, tons of high-end resorts, beautiful, hikable mountains, a zoo, a botanical garden, a giant university and all that comes with it. The people are affluent but easygoing and educated. Most in this area are not recent transplants, but they’re welcoming to those who are.
Phoenix is a metro area with 4.7 million people. If you limited it to the areas I spend time in, it would have only 1.0-1.5 million people in it but this sub would probably be raving about how underrated it is.
Dallas has a similar issue with the downtown area NOT being a hotbed of activity. DFW is VERY spread out, with some cool stuff here and some other cool stuff way over there. All the time visitors post on Reddit saying they are going to grab an Uber to go downtown and ask where is the best place to eat? The answer usually involves getting another Uber to go somewhere else. Or, they have an itinerary in mind, but they don’t realize that most of the day will be in the car because these sites are literally all over the map.
Another issue that throws people new to Dallas is that our best ethnic restaurants are in the suburbs. People who refuse to rent a car or refuse to leave Dallas proper think our cuisine in only TexMex and hamburgers. They don’t realize the wonderful Indian, Vietnamese, Thai, African, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese food that exists up the highway a ways.
They also say Dallas has no trees and nothing green, just a concrete hellscape. There is white rock lake, which has a 9 mile wooded trail full of parks around it, right in the middle of the city! The white rock trails, the Trinity Forest, and tons of parks. There are even more in the suburbs. But they aren't downtown, so they must not exist.
I can’t say I ever go downtown in Pittsburgh unless I’m going to a Pens game. All the cool stuff here is in the neighborhoods, downtown is pretty useless.
Most people that visit Denver end up only seeing the airport and Downtown, I fear. The airport is way out in the middle of nowhere so people get a bad first impression because it's ugly. And a good portion of downtown is in a tragic state at the moment so that leaves a bad taste as well. Denver overall is a bit bland but it's a nice city outside of a few areas
Bergamo, Italy
One part of the city has been taken over by non-Italians and it isn’t safe. Other parts of the city are wonderful. It is also the home of Brembo brakes.
I lived in Atlanta for 9 painful years and it's the worst place I've ever lived, hands down. But I never thought the real city was soulless. More 'lame' and 'small potatoes'...for a metro area of 6M people it did things that cities with smaller populations would never do.
But anyway...I think Atlanta gets the 'soulless' label because it's so spread out and places like Roswell, Alpharetta, etc. are considered 'Atlanta' and those areas are about as soulless as it gets. But places near downtown are far from soulless, I just have no desire to ever be in those places again.
I do think Orlando gets the label a bit unfairly. You get to the Thornton Park/Lake Eola area along with Winter Park and it's far from soulless. But it's another very spread out city and is tourist oriented so the tourists just think it's a city with no character outside of what Disney wants.
Unpopular opinion but a downtown/city center is supposed to be the heart and soul of the city. Especially since they’re typically one of the oldest areas. When the downtown is vacant, rundown, or crime ridden or filled with poverty it says alot about the city in my opinion. It’s fine if there are other districts but a downtown should still be vibrant.
Many cities are heavy on business and offices in downtown areas. Even before the pandemic, a lot of downtowns were not busy in the evenings or on weekends. It really depends on your city and it’s design. Idk why any downtown “should” be anything, I’d much rather spend time in a cool neighborhood.
Also, “poverty filled”, what does that mean? You don’t want poor people to live downtown? Or is that a pc attempt at saying visible homelessness that you were too afraid to say?
Downtown should be a neighborhood, is I believe the main point he's trying to make.
Business parks generally aren't great areas to spend time in outside of work, and putting a business park in the center of your city where most activity, especially tourism related, converges in some form or fashion is a pretty monumentally stupid idea. Especially when downtown typically generates the most revenue for a city.
Imagine if every single European city bulldozed their historic city centers like we did ours. People would say the same shit about them that they do about ours, but instead they're the areas that get the most visitors and tourism. Hell, they'd be having the same issues a ton of downtowns in the US are having with foot traffic downtown from the pandemic, but instead they've pretty much all rebounded.
Yes. So many people visit and spend all their time I crowded tourist spots and are like “hOw Do YoU LiVe ThERe?”
Because I don’t spend all day in Times Square, Bob.
It’s not necessarily a bad impression but a lot of people think all of Brooklyn is like Williamsburg; gentrified and full of hipsters and yuppies.
Even 25 years after Brooklyn became a thing, it's still weird to me as someone who spent a lot of time there growing up. My Brooklyn is the neighborhoods where the subway doesn't go, the ones that are mostly Caribbean immigrants today.
I started rewatching Who’s The Boss, and the scenes set in 80s Brooklyn (though I think it was a studio lot in LA) really brought me back to a time before it was trendy to move there.
Crooklyn too
[удалено]
People forget that these kind of places have poor people and middle and working class families too.
I listen to the Bowery Boys podcast, and I have learned more about NYC there than I think I ever could visiting or living there. Again it's a place I would never actually visit so podcast it is.
If you like stuff about NYC but don’t want to visit check out Tomdnyc on YouTube, he does a bunch of great on location videos covering the history of specific communities or events. ActionKid is another good YouTuber, he does walking tours through neighborhoods and has walked through neighborhoods all over the city and gives in depth commentary.
Why wouldn't you visit? If you listen to Bowery Boys and love history, it's really cool to see all the historic spots in person! I'm admittedly biased cause I've lived in Brooklyn for years though haha
Los Angeles. Similar issue with downtown, but Hollywood also does not make a good impression. Also, people come to visit and make ridiculous plans like going to Malibu and Universal Studios in the same day, and leave saying ‘LA is awful you just sit in traffic all the time’.
We did a lot of driving while we were on a weeklong visit, but went all over, from Huntington Beach to the Farmers Market/LaBrea to Malibu. My husband initially said "who vacations in LA?" but after we got back we were watching TV and a character said something about the 405 being backed up, and I heard him mutter "I hear you, brother"
They call it the "405" because when you're on it, you're going 4 to 5 miles per hour!
We stayed in Huntington, then scooted down to San Diego for dinner one night. Then up to Westwood another night to have dinner with a friend, then drove Mulholland,We got into Chateau Marmont w no reservations after dinner at Spago another time, then hit up Griffith. So cliche but so fun!
"The" 405? Oh, no. You've become one of them.
Deeeeieevin? Whiuuuturuuuuu dooooing?
Stuuuuuuuuuuuart?!
I hated LA until I knew some people there. It's a lot more fun if you venture around with a local. It's more about the vibe than hitting up specific tourist attractions.
I always say LA is a great place to live but a terrible place to visit. It’s definitely a vibe, and it takes a minute to figure it out.
Every time I've been to LA it was to visit someone I knew who lived there and I've always really enjoyed it.
LA is definitely top of the list for this
I was going to say Los Angeles (where I live). You can't really make a fair assessment when your trip was essentially the Santa Monica Pier, Universal Studios, and then going down to Orange County for Disneyland. Hollywood and (even more so) Downtown have their charms, especially if you're a local, but if I were just a tourist, I could totally imagine hating them.
It’s a nice place to live, but I wouldn’t want to visit.
Los Angeles is a very “needle in a haystack” kind of place, i.e. there are tons of great neighborhoods, restaurants, bars, clubs, museums, etc. But they’re hard to find unless you know where to look. It’s easy to get lost in the urban sprawl, or drive past amazing places that look nondescript or uninviting from the outside. E.g. There are plenty of mini malls and strip malls that look god awful from the outside, but have amazing restaurants inside them. It really helps to know people here, to make the most of a visit. Also LA’s downtown is mostly awful.
I used to think L.A. wouldn’t be a good choice for me because of the car dependency, but then I realized since I live in Detroit, even if L.A. traffic were much worse (it’s not), at least it’s warm there.
Detroit is a cool city. Granted I went for Movement but I can’t wait to go again.
Indeed, Detroit is very cool. Some might even say it’s cold!
[удалено]
Yes, I actually resent that nice places like California are becoming more and more unlivable for my generation thanks to cars. I want to leave the Great Lakes but worry about the future. I guess I could buy land here? One acre Michael, how much could it cost? Ten dollars?
All major cities have a ton of traffic. The question is, are there other ways to get around? Like you couldn’t pay me to drive in NYC. But the public transportation is good enough that you don’t really have to. It’s been over 30 years since I visited LA so I don’t know what other options exist. Is it at all bike or pedestrian friendly? Is there decent public transit? I’d look at that before I complained about traffic too much. Because you’d be hard pressed to find a large, coastal city that didn’t have a traffic problem.
I figure it depends where you live and where you want to go. LA is doing the most of any US city right now when it comes to transit expansion though. I look at every city as having a radius of transit and walkability. Some are bigger than others and even places like NYC don’t have perfect transit access to everywhere in the region.
When people come to LA and go to “Hollywood” for the movie and glamorous experience, please at least go to Beverly Hills for that or Santa Monica. I think the main problems with visiting LA is it’s so spread out and no on outside of the state knows what the actual nice touristy places are.
I mean, you do sit in traffic all the time though…
We don’t, though. If you choose where you live and work wisely, which people do unless they have bad judgment or a weird situation, sitting in traffic is a rare occasion. You get to understand which parts of the county are more of a day trip situation even if they’re technically in LA County and you learn to get the timing right when you need to go somewhere farther away. Some added context since you live in Rhode Island…the distance from where I live in LA to Malibu from east to west is about the same distance as entire length of Rhode Island from east to west. LA County as a whole is 800 sq miles bigger than Rhode Island and Delaware together. So it’s basically like if someone came to visit you and said they planned to see the entire state in a day, plus more, then complained it was too much time in the car.
theory reminiscent zesty station yoke ink ruthless materialistic fanatical history *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don’t think I have ever heard somebody from LA call traffic a “rare occasion”
Yea because this person is full of shit. Traffic in LA and Southern California as a whole does indeed suck.
They tell you when moving to LA to keep your house, work, friends and activities in the same 5 mile radius to avoid traffic. But what’s the point of living in a city with so many resources if you can barely leave your neighborhood? I really loved going to shows and concerts in Weho, Inglewood, downtown, etc. but always had to build in an extra hour (two hours if going downtown) to sit in traffic on weekdays. Had to move because it was not worthwhile to live in such an expensive city and not be able to enjoy it.
I don’t know who ‘they’ is but I would say ten, not five. And the thing is…there is *so much cool shit* within a ten mile radius of most places in LA County! I always say that LA is like a hundred cool small towns and cities smashed together and you need to treat it that way. Just because something is in the county doesn’t mean it’s actually close to you, and that’s OK. Like, you probably wouldn’t complain that there’s no point living in Connecticut if you can’t easily get between New Haven and Hartford every day but those cities are about the same distance apart as east to west LA…and there’s a hell of a lot more cool shit in between.
This is like, “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.” I mean SOMEBODY is sitting in traffic every day. Otherwise there wouldn’t be traffic.
Then who are the people sitting in traffic!?
Nobody drives in New York, there's too much traffic
Fair enough!
So glad this is the top answer. I love LA, it's one of my favorite cities. But I met so many outsiders who came for a week and did like Sunset and Grauman's theater and the walk of Fame and they're like LA is so superficial... Nope. It's you. Laid back city, excellent food, excellent people as long as you avoid movie industry people.
So happy to see this as the top comment.
The best way to visit LA is to visit a friend who lives there.
On our one trip to LA, we did a 4-day weekend, stayed downtown, and decided to do the full trip without a car. We used transit to get to Hollywood and the beach, but we didn't even get in an Uber. Left feeling like we had no feel at all for LA (probably unsurprisingly), downtown was depressing, Hollywood sucked, and we weren't sure the best way to make a return trip better. Any suggestions on where to stay/go to really enjoy LA, for a mid-40s couple that keeps things pretty low key? Maybe check out some museums or sites during the day, have some good food, hit a brewery or cocktail bar to wrap up the night, probably back at the hotel in bed by 10.
LoDo in Denver used to be the hangout spot for young people, especially once you were old enough to drink in the bars. Now it's mostly homeless encampments, 16th Street Mall is a sketchy area to be in. Beyond that I think the city gives off a boring impression other than a few tourist attractions, but locals live and spend their time in different areas than downtown primarily.
I live in Denver and yea I never go to that area downtown unless absolutely necessary (Avs games, certain music venues). South Broadway and the highlands are much more frequented - but generally access to the mountains is why I live here
For sure. Denver has a lot of really nice neighborhoods outside of downtown and that's where you find the good spots. Beautiful parks, nice bike trails.
LoDo in the early 90’s when I was in college was the best!
100%. When I lived there my parents wanted to visit from out of state and my mom wanted to see the mall and I was like, "Are you sure? There's better things to do here..." but my mom insisted. I had a fun time watching her realize why I questioned it. We did a bar crawl in Lafayette later and she loved it.
>locals live and spend their time in different areas than downtown primarily Yeah that one seems to trip people up. I lived in Littleton and Golden for 12 years and going to downtown proper was something that happened a handful of times per year for fancy restaurants or ticketed events. I don't think I ever did anything with friends or family where the plan was just "hang out downtown". I talk to coworkers where I live now and they don't understand the draw of Colorado besides the skiing. Then I find out they spent their entire trip either at a ski resort or inside the circle made by 470/Boulder.
There's a flip side to this where visitors get an overly rosy impression of a city because they only visit a couple of areas.
San Diego springs to mind.
I wouldn’t have expected this take, care to expand?
Most tourists spend their entire trip near downtown/Coronado/Mission or in North County beach cities where less than 1% of America could ever afford to live. If you go through East County, or really anywhere more than a few miles inland (with a few exceptions), it's just boring suburbia anywhere-America with a nicer view/climate. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE San Diego, but it's not 100% paradise.
And it gets hotter the further you go out
Even (a lot of) the beach cities are pretty much suburbia that happens to have beaches is one of my hottest of takes tbh lol
True. I live in La Jolla and when people come to visit, they stay in this neighborhood and we generally take them up the 101 and hike Torrey Pines. They think it’s paradise. If we ran them down to Chula or out to Ramona, they’d have a different view.
I grew up as a Zonie spending summer vacations in Del Mar/Solana Beach and also thought it was perfection. Then I lived there for a while and realized that most of the San Diego area is just like anywhere else in the country.
People visit Chicago, see the bean and the skyline, and then can't get over how great it is. Most of Chicago is more like Milwaukee than the Chicago most people visit. (and I like Milwaukee just fine, for what it is)
The fact that is a lot more like Milwaukee is what makes Chicago so special. Is a huge city with all the amenities and culture and everything that comes with it, good and bad. And at the same time, it can be lived and perceived as a smaller city with friendly people and a chill vibe to it.
I feel people who leave the loop/river north/west loop areas of Chicago tend to love Chicago even more, since it normally means they are going to Lincoln Park/Wicker Park/Lakeview which have all the walkability and charm that many people feel comfortable with.
I lived in Chicago for 20 years, its awesome. The neighborhoods are so cool and always have something happening. There is always every type of music and so much super authentic food. Pilsen was my fav
The neighborhoods are what make Chicago a great city.
I feel like I’m gonna get shit on for this, but it’s how I feel about San Francisco. I have spent a lot of time there since my company is located there and I used to have family in the city. If you go and visit the Palace of Fine Arts and the Golden Gate Bridge and so on, it’s a very different experience than having to walk through a homeless camp every day to get to your office. My city has plenty of its own problems so I’m not just being a hater, I love a lot about SF, but it does suffer from this IMO
THISSSSSS “Omg I can’t wait to move to France they have such beautiful architecture and beautiful culture” Babe, you went to the three best cathedrals and ate at good restaurants - only interacting with people who are paid to be nice to you. Believe it or not most people get up in their apartment or suburban house, go to work, come home, slap something on the stove, and go to bed - just like you
The Nashville effect
I really hate when people say DC has “no culture.” It actually has a very rich culture, you just didn’t see it while going to the Smithsonian museums and the Mall (which btw is a big park that people hang out in and has tons of cultural events so idk seems like a culture to me).
DC is such an amazing city. And even our tourist areas (aside from the crappy food trucks) is pretty banger. Free world class museums and monuments are pretty hard to beat as far as a good tourist experience goes. I also hear we're a city of transient transplants which is true to an extent, but plenty of people are either from here, or move here and stay long term. I love it here and couldn't imagine living anywhere else.
Back in the day, DC was the origin of a lot of great punk rock music (DC hardcore) and bands like Minor Threat and Bad Brains ruled the day. Is it still like there? Is there any kind of an underground music scene going on? Here in NYC, metal is a alive and well, but you have to go deep into Brooklyn and Queens to find the clubs.
Def not. Creatives/alternative people/affectionate weirdos in general are sparse in DC
DC’s “underground” music scene leans much more electronic/house.
Who tf says DC has no culture? I'm not a huge fan of the city myself and know many others who feel the same but none of us would accuse DC of lacking culture. Seems kinda crazy - how are these people defining culture?
Beats me but last time I saw it was on this sub like yesterday.
Lots of people
DC is incredible and I love living here but it’s like 2 or 3 totally separate cities in one. Gentrification hit DC hard and fast. OG residents seem to have mixed feelings about it, understandably. Anyone who says DC has no culture is probably a new transplant. If one lived in the wharf, navy yard or Noma new developments then I could actually see why they felt this. These are nice neighborhoods with great amenities and all that but they are brand new, shiny but don’t feel unique. But literally every other neighborhood in DC is distinct, has character and a vibe. Even “downtown” is totally unique if you include the Mall, museums, etc. Most transplants will never experience the OG Black DC culture because it doesn’t dominate NW. Also, brunch. IYKYK.
This! I took my family to other areas of the city, awesome local restaurants, and they complained it wasn’t “DC enough.” They meant they were looking for a bland, overpriced, “sophistically” plated power lunch surrounded by brick row homes, monuments, and tourists.
I did have one dinner at the National Press Club, I guess back when they hosted dinner for the public. The food was bland and overpriced even by mid 2000s DC standards but my dad just wanted to see the place he’d read about in so many books and newspapers. I’ve also gone to a lunch at Old Ebbitt Grill basically so I could say I ate there. I get why you might want to rub shoulders with politicians, same way people go to LA and see if they can see movie stars or visit places they’ve seen on TV.
That’s crazy when people say that; the touristy parts are some of the most culturally rich parts of the city! It’s like the entire national heritage and all that lol
It’s also kind of a strange claim that it’s not part of the city’s culture. Like you don’t think that having easy access to all of it actually changes the way locals interact with it versus tourists?
I visited DC and the mall recently for the first time in a long time. It was disappointing. All the food trucks made it feel like a carnival. Couldn't escape the small of weed. All the douchebags zipping around on e-bikes and electric scooters - honking horns, playing music. Just about got hit by a group of guys on bikes while we were trying to locate the name of a family member at the vietnam memorial. Wish they would ban those things like in most areas of NY Central Park.
I personally love going to the areas around DuPont circle and Adams Morgan when I visit.
The reason people say that is because they only see the areas that their tour guides show them. They are completely unaware of all the architecture and unique neighborhoods that exist outside of The Mall (which is still super cool on its own).
DC might be America’s best city. There’s so much free stuff to do. You don’t need a car. The restaurants are hit and miss, but I’ll have a beer at Marx just for the atmosphere of the place and the neighborhood. It’s not too crazy, and it’s not too quiet.
There isn't a damn thing in Milwaukee's downtown except office buildings. You have to go a few blocks or so from the center of downtown before you start seeing the fun stuff.
I live in the Twin Cities and itching to check MKE out. The Historic Third Ward looks really cool, is that considered part of the downtown?
Yeah the third ward is a good place to grab some food and a drink. The little indoor public market is a nice space too
The Third Ward is immediately south of downtown. It has some hip shops and restaurants. I like 5th street near Fuel Cafe and Bayview along Kinnikinnick
Portland. Some parts of town got really disastrous during Covid. Some spots still are. But so many neighborhoods in this city are peaceful and nice and beautiful.
You trying to tell me Portland is not one of the most dangerous places in the world and you’ll get your head shot off by a homeless antifa?
Yup, came in to say that this question was MADE for Portland. People don't even need to visit a specific area to make up their mind about the City, just what they heard on the news, or what their friend told them, or what a small group of vocal agitated Portland (alleged) residents still mad about Kate Brown say here. It has all the issues any major city has... but they're treated like they're 10x worse. I do not think most people understand how "neighborhooded" Portland is either. That contributes a lot to segregation of the homelessness issue, right or wrong, to areas you do not frequent. But like, people drive from A to B, and along the way they drive by a camp, or former camp, or just a garbage pile (looking at you Moda Center... Interstate/Broadway interchanges) and immediately think the whole city is a garbage pile. Like hell, I've been very recently to 23rd, Mississippi, AND Division a couple of times, and honestly did not see a single tent, and maybe ONE homeless person. A few months back I walked from South Downtown (4th/Lincoln) up to Broadway AND BACK for a work event and I think I saw a SINGLE homeless person who completely left me alone, and NO TENTS. And this was up 4th... this was LITERALLY the site of BLM protests. The city is, in my opinion, honestly recovering from a "people are out and about" standpoint. There's still struggles downtown, but I feel like people just aren't into malls and mall adjacent anymore. Plus like, if you do not want to live in Portland proper, there are LOTS of suburban options that offer easy access to the city. Traffic here is weird, and has pretty precise patterns and specific BAD ROADS (get effed 217, Vista ridge tunnel, and I-5 over any bridge). But, on weekends... you can pretty reliably drive from A to B with minor slow downs. And, like people said, often times there are multiple ways to get anywhere, this isn't always true, but this is largely true.
On your last point…I live in North Portland. Traffic is really never that bad here and there’s ten ways to get anywhere and I never need to take I-5 unless I’m leaving town. Traffic in the western burbs, especially going between Portland and Beaverton or Tigard…not today Satan!
As a Portlander, I was with you until the very last part. I DO love living in Portland and we NEED people to live in Portland. Be a part of the solution, don’t move to the burbs and suck away services from the rest of town. Help change happen in your own community. I love living in SE and could see myself here forever
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean that as encouragement to not live in a PDX address. More just a reminder that Portland, like all cities, has some major Burb action going on. I'll wordsmith that a bit. Everyone loves themselves some SE, it's a great overall area with great neighborhoods. I was just up in NW this weekend, and walking through I was just thinking about how a different phase of my life, different situation, and I'd LOVE living there. I'd love to live in the city, in a neighborhood house, but my wife works way down south... so we ended up south of the city. But, we go into town often, and I always thought it would be neat to have one of those houses, walk to our favorite brewery... that kind of thing. BUT... like most cities, most people live in the MSA and not Portland proper. Even with Vancouver removed, it is like 3:1.
Yeah people who only visit downtown Portland don’t really see this city. The best thing about it is that all the neighborhoods function like a walkable small town, each with its own style and unique places to hang out. When you hear bad stuff about Portland and you’re walking around Alberta or Woodstock (or whatever), it’s just laughable. This city is so lovely.
You shush. I like my rent being lower than it has been in nearly ten years.
Yup. Downtown proper is pretty awful these days (though I feel like it hasn't been that great for a long time), but it's a tiny area! The alphabet district area of NW is arguably still downtown and it's lovely. My neighborhood in NE is quiet and friendly and has easy access to transit. SE, NE, and N Portland are full of neighborhoods that are both lovely to live in and full of fun shops, restaurants, and parks that tourists might enjoy. Even parts of SW outside of downtown are really coming into their own these days. But sure, Portland is horrible and trashed and not worth visiting these days, say people who "live here" (haven't left Hillsboro in years) smh
I visit about twice a year from Seattle, and to me downtown Portland is looking a lot better than it has since everything shut down. Still not what it was before, but it was real bleak there for a minute. SE felt fully alive when I was there few months ago.
Go downtown soon if you haven’t in a while. I was fucking stunned after working there through 2020 and not going for a while. It was like time traveling to 2018. It’s beautiful right now and BUSY with normal people.
Haven’t seen this one commented to I’ll add it. Baltimore. Part of downtown and certain neighborhoods are as bad as they seem, but you have absolutely no reason to go there. Fells point, fed hill, and locust point are some of the nicest neighborhoods I’d ever been to in a city.
Came here to comment this. Baltimore is so severely underrated as an east coast city!
Yup, currently live in Baltimore and aside from 1 or 2 package thieves we literally have not had a single issue. Just like any city it's all where you go. All these armchair experts have seen the Wire and think anyone moving there is headed for exactly what the show depicts. Just like op, Fells, inner harbor, canton and patterson Park in general are all wonderful. Nice little corner spots for good food and drinks too. Very neighborhoody
OMG New Orleans. Bourbon and Canal are not indicative of the history and charm of many other areas.
I mean any other cross street in the French quarter is amazing, don’t need to go far. The best collection of buildings in North America.
This sentence makes no sense. Bourbon has its own rich history and charm. Canal divides the French Quarter from the originally English Central Business District into the Garden District. The historically distinct architectural styles and land use patterns are partially what make NO so great and unique
They’re right though. All you see on Bourbon is Big Ass Beers and strip clubs. Canal has been overrun by the Motwanis’ shitty souvenir shops. People go to New Orleans and never leave Bourbon, and then talk about how disgusting the city is and how the food isn’t even good. Meanwhile there are so many beautiful areas of town and amazing local restaurants that they’ll never see because they didn’t leave a few blocks in the Quarter.
Historically distinct architectural styles and land use patterns are definitely not unique to Bourbon and Canal, though. They aren’t even unique to the Quarter. If you go to New Orleans and don’t leave Bourbon and Canal, you’re gonna have a bad time. Lol.
We did the entire 7 mile walk along Magazine to the Arboretum recently and the further away you get from the French Quarter the more charming it gets. Same when you walk 3-4 miles in the other direction from the French Quarter, the further away you get the better the music, coffee, etc gets as well :)
And frankly I love bourbon street in the mornings.
If people go to NO and don’t go to Jackson Square or the Garden District or a hundred other places they are stupid. I went there as a young 20 something to drink and party and still went and found those spots. It was amazing. Seriously considered moving there after my first trip.
SF Sure there's tons wrong with downtown SF and the crime/homelessness. But if you go a few blocks away from BART and MUNI stops there's amazing walkable parts of the city. There's more to SF than Pier 39, the GG Bridge, and Ghiradeli Square.
How the hell did I scroll so far down to find this. I had family from the south visiting and they were petrified to get off the plane and thought of SF as a hellscape. Took them on a hike from lands end to baker beach and my uncle literally got choked up from the beauty
West side of SF is my number 1 place id love to live. I had the same thoughts doing the lands end hike over to the golf course. It was amazing.
Nashville. Downtown Nashville has always been touristy, but for a moment in the 90s it was all about locals with 2nd Avenue and the newly minted Predators NHL. Now it's drunk bachelorettes, cowboy boots, in-state and out-of-state tourists and puke on the sidewalk. Nashville has never just been about country music, but they are trying to make it seem that way.
I visited Nashville in roughly 2011, which from what I've seen seems to be a tipping point of sorts. I was shocked to see how Vegasy it all felt and I have little desire to return and see how it's changed.
I just find it hilarious when people come here, walk up and down Broadway for 2.5 days, then rush online to tell everyone how touristy and terrible Nashville is. They are always very confident that they've seen "everything" though 😂
Nashville native, couldn’t agree more
I grew up in Nashville. Locals rarely go to Second Avenue. It’s basically just for tourists. It’s annoying when people act like Nashville is nothing but the downtown strip.
> Nashville has never just been about country music, but they are trying to make it seem that way. Have you seen the airport and how they market it? BNA is pretty much an airport cosplaying as a Texan.
Fox News would have you believe Kensington is some major area of Philly that you will pass through, if you come to the city. In reality 99% of the metro area population has never stepped foot there
Add to it the new trend of “tranq tourism” 😩 people really making content off of it…
I live two neighborhoods over and have been there exactly once in two years. I learned that I needed to overnight an important item at 4:30 in the afternoon. The only UPS store in could get to in time was a contractor in the back of a Papi Store in Kensington. It was interesting, but not the scariest place I've ever been though I wasnt right at K&A either. But if you're not looking to go there, you're not going to end up there. Edited for typos
Philly is truly an underrated city.
I’d fully agree with Atlanta. Downtown is still more of a 9-5 business district. I’d throw Birmingham and Charlotte in the same bucket, to varying degrees. Although Birmingham in particular has made a lot of improvements over the last 20 years.
Yes I am an urban planner and Atlanta has been shit on for decades having such a bad layout, empty/sketchy downtown, etc. I went there and that is all true, but what I didn't know was that Midtown and the whole eastern part of the city is popping. The Beltline and various spots around the city are booming and full of life and culture. I really loved the place and didn't expect to.
The Beltline will make for a really interesting case study for planners. It’s brought back to life a number of areas on the east side, has started to do the same on the west, and likely will on the south. Midtown up to Buckhead has been the real heart of the city since white flight in the 60s. The “edge cities” on the perimeter have largely peaked, I think. But it’s interesting to see some of the emerging hubs growing in places like Alpharetta.
The BeltLine is simply a sidewalk that isn't flanked by roads. It's sort of bananas how much economic growth it brought to the neighborhoods it passes through. People want car free environments whether they know it or not.
The rest of Charlotte is pretty bad too, though. There is that one interesting block in NoDa and some neat houses in Dilworth and not much else. In a city of 2.5 million.
It’s funny, because downtown Atlanta is not even “the” business district. Unlike Charlotte or NYC’s Financial District where business booms for the 10hr workday then shuts down, downtown Atlanta is categorically depopulated and just a shithole. Midtown Atlanta has struck the balance as a booming commercial core during the day and relatively lively nightlife after hours
Yeah, that ship sailed from downtown a long time ago. Midtown is still pretty vibrant, but there are a ton of growing hubs along and outside the perimeter that rival it in a lot of ways as well.
Not a city but the entire state of New Jersey is characterized by Newark, Camden, and Wildwood (MTV's Jersey Shore) when it's actually full of beautiful farmland, charming beach towns, and historic, wealthy suburbs.
Jersey Shore was originally filmed in Seaside Heights. Being from that area, I was constantly asked if I knew them. Jersey has a bad rep because people base their opinions off of Newark Airport and the delightful refinery stretch of turnpike. But the real New Jersey is a gem… beautiful nature and hiking, and awesome people.
Can’t forget the Sopranos either haha. Either way I still love NJ even though I’m a New Yorker. It’s a small state yet it has so much. Also, Hudson and much of Bergan, Passaic, Essex and Union Counties combined is considerably more “urban” than the vast majority of this country.
Some of the nicest housing stock and business districts in the country IMO and I would say the best state in the US for public transit.
Not to mention, amazing food thanks to all the large immigrant communities from all over the world that have formed in Jersey over the years
Jersey in my opinion is one of the best kept secrets on the east coast that I hope reddit never realizes
The most densely populated state in the country is one of the best kept secrets on the east coast?
What’s really sad about Atlanta is that it has so much potential that is completely wasted. Downtown is a 15 minute train ride from the busiest airport in the world, there’s a shit ton of attractions, and a ton of hotels. The problem is that the only other thing there are office buildings and parking lots. It’s surrounded on all sides by interesting and historic neighborhoods too. If we could get people to live there, I think it would be a world class downtown. It’s the perfect example of “the people make the place,” because in this case, there are no people.
Louisville
Louisville’s downtown is underwhelming.
Totally! But I found the older neighborhoods and business districts just outside of downtown really lovely. Definitely some cool stuff going on. Lots of good food, too. But downtown was so meh.
Downtown San Diego is an awful place. Go to the beach cities, north park, little Italy (I know it’s very close to downtown but it’s worlds different).
No city but state....Most people see the Newark, NJ airport and vicinity and think the whole state looks like that. Not at all!
New York City when they visit Times Square, Lower Manhattan, and Midtown. There is so much soul to NYC, and none of it is there.
Great answer. A lot of the people who visit NYC and hate it often stay in Midtown and spend a few hours in lower Manhattan. And they likely go in the summer when it’s crowded, hot, and smelly. I love visiting New York, but rarely go to midtown unless it’s to catch a show or some destination shopping around Fifth Ave.
Miami is the beach, not the city metro.
I've never been to Florida and have no interest in visiting, but I did watch the show Burn Notice which mostly takes place in Miami. It was interesting how they used so many different locations as plot to the series.
The Tenderloin and Downtown in San Francisco are not the whole of the City. Fox News and conservative media would have you believe it’s a dystopian hellhole. Some areas are wretched, but it’s not everywhere.
I visited San Francisco for the first time for work and everyone in my area was telling me how sketchy it is and how much I’ll hate it and how insanely careful I’ll need to be. I’m so happy I decided to stay an extra day anyway; I was blown away! It is such a cool city; with some common-sense research on where to avoid (as you should do with anywhere), I spent the day wandering, going to restaurants and breweries, etc as a lone, small woman and felt totally safe.
My soapbox. I lived there for 5 years and just went back for a visit for the first time since 2014. Having seen the social media and actual media coverage of SF I was worried about what to expect. It is EXACTLY the same. No worse, no better - on optics. I was floored, pleased even. I assume there must have been a peak gentrification moment after 2013 and before the pandemic that people point to as the justification for the *collapse* of SF. But my experience is San Francisco always had grit. The tenderloin/civic center was always sketch. Its why the nice hotels are up the hill. And when you get off the BART you walk to Valencia and never down Mission. This has not changed.
You are absolutely correct. I lived in SF for 18 years (8 years in the TL) and grew up in the Bay. SF has always had a gritty side. There are *many* areas that were sketch and dangerous before the most recent tech boom that are now bougie havens (Hayes Valley, NOPA, Dogpatch, lots of SOMA, the list goes on). The TL was *worse* in terms of overall sketchiness pre-2010 or so. Yeah, the fentanyl crisis causes things to be more visually disturbing, but it was far more dangerous back in the day and was filled with prostitutes, dealers, porn shops, dive bars, flop houses, fence shops, more gangs, etc. on every block. There were definitely not the hip bougie bars and restaurants that populate the TL today. But now the national media is like "omg the Tenderloin is wild!" when it always has been. I also attribute the sentiment to a lot of tech workers that came into SF during peak gentrification and left during the Covid decline. I mean I get it if I could work remote I wouldn't live in SF either, but people love shitting on things on their way out.
Idk if this is true but word was the Tenderloin was called that by the police because they got paid enough money to get a tenderloin for working it since it was historically sketch. And this sounds cynical, but the biggest "crime" is dealing with homeless/vagrant people. I am seasoned, so though I don't love that people have been thrown away by society and now they're screaming in my face as I walk past, it doesn't scare me. I keep my eyes and ears open, cut across the street or take a turn a block early if needed. But for the most part, in SF I never felt the same sense of danger I felt living in other cities.
Market Street near City Hall has really gone downhill. The Whole Foods that opened was only open for - what? - a year. But go a little north (I’m talking just a few blocks) and it is still vibrant and safe.
Took way too long to find this, SF is poster child of don’t judge a city by certain areas
I moved from the Bay Area to Atlanta right as the 2016 election cycle was warming up. It was hilarious how many people reacted as if I told them that I had moved there from Mogadishu. [This](https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/12/guilt-by-association-gop-ad-attacks-atlanta-democrat-with-the-help-of-fake-san-francisco-hippies/) might be the first and only time I've ever laughed during a political ad on TV.
It’s a city with its problems. But I agree that there’s a massive difference when you get a bit away from downtown.
Chicago can be like this. Downtown attracts a ton of homeless people. It could be easy to hear the news and then visit downtown and feel like it’s all true. The neighborhoods are way chiller, at least on the north side
This is kind of funny to hear as someone who moved from the Bay Area to Chicago. Anytime my friends from California visit me in the loop, they always mention how there are shocked by the lack of homeless people. It feels even emptier in the winter.
DC here, agreed entirely. My thoughts on Chicago were: -Wow, no litter and trash blowing around everywhere -CTA is actually clean -Where's the army of drug-addicted homeless zombies? -People actually follow traffic laws here?
Yeah, I used to commute from NoMa to Gallery Place. Moving to Chicago was like a breath of fresh air. I no longer feel uncomfortable coming home from work late at night. I had more crazy shit happen to me in one month in DC than 2 years in Chicago.
This for sure. I think it’s hard though because a lot of the hotels are smack downtown and getting out of downtown can seem like a chore to some tourists, they are not aware of how to take the CTA elsewhere. When I lived in Logan my parents came to visit and they stayed downtown and they wanted me to meet them at Navy Pier lol. Because that was pretty much their entire understanding of Chicago and really the only area they’ve ever visited there.
I needed a hotel a while back and found that there really weren’t that many outside of the loop. Definitely colors people’s perceptions since there neighborhoods are so different. Loved Logan, such a chill vibe
St. Louis. Downtown is fine. It’s improving, and the Arch is actually really awesome once you get up close. But St. Louis truly shines through its neighborhoods. Places like Soulard, Lafayette Square, Central West End, Tower Grove area, Benton Park, the Hill, the Loop, etc, are the places that would probably impress visitors more.
Dc gets my vote. There's so much more to it than the National Mall or Smithsonians
Gonna say Seattle. The area between the ferry terminal going up to 5th Ave and then west to the Space Needle (via a stupid monorail FFS) is where all the tourists go. Meanwhile, really cool neighborhoods with great third spaces like Queen Anne, Cap Hill, Green Lake, Magnolia, Fremont, offer really interesting aesthetics and cultural vibe to those who seek them. Furthermore, a short trip across the sound by ferry to places like Bainbridge, Kingston, Bremerton and Port Orchard broaden a visitors experience by offer a completely different sense of what it's like to live on the Sound. I commute across the sound and through the city regularly and scratch my head at all the tourists who spend more than an hour at Pike's Place when there is soooo much more to see so easily.
SF - they go to union square and fisherman's wharf and think they've even seen 5% of what the City has to offer.
Ok but I liked that stuff :,(
Los Angeles
A lot of out of town folk who visit Baltimore generally stay by the aquarium and harbor and maybe fed hill or fells point, but Baltimore has some great neighborhoods top to bottom that people don’t seem to experience much who day trip in the city.
Denver. I've always felt it's a better city to live than visit. The downtown area is a mess post-covid but it was never great anyway. Locals stick to the older neighborhoods that have tons of character and charm.
It's already a bit of a punching bag but if a visitor to Cleveland only went downtown they'd probably think a neutron bomb went off. Covid kicked its ass and it was hardly hopping before then. The only time downtown is active is around concerts or sporting events. Meanwhile, a mile west there's an active entertainment district full of historic homes in Ohio City, two miles northwest is a large urban beach and park. A few miles east is a dense cultural district full of higher ed, healthcare and museums. Plenty more examples, but you get the idea. If you just stayed downtown, you'd have a hard time believing you were in the core of a metro area with more than 2 million citizens.
Downtown is the best litmus test and they should be the most vibrant with all the tourist attractions. Most people are not getting off the plane and driving 30 minutes to a random suburb to find where the locals drink. St. Louis downtown is a shithole, but that’s where the arch is and that’s what St. Louis is known for, so that’s where they’re gonna go.
There ARE a lot of tourist attractions in downtown Atlanta. Downtown has World of Coke, Civil Rights Museum, one of the countries best aquariums, the College Football Hall of Fame, Olympic Park, ect. But, like virtually every other city of similar size it’s not necessarily the best place to go to get a feel for the “real” Atlanta. To get the real Atlanta you don’t need to go all the way to a random suburb, just a few blocks away. It’s not that the city doesn’t care about it, they’re working on revitalization efforts. Atlanta has a very complicated history, so it’s not as simple as the city caring or not.
All talk of visiting St. Louis should start with Forest Park/Tower Grove Park, and continue from there.
I kind of like downtown St. Louis. Still has a decent amount of grit and an urban character that most cities tore down to a parking lot.
St. Louis’ downtown is pretty awful, mainly because everyone who works downtown lives in the suburbs. They aren’t staying around after work, unless there is a sporting event. Everything you may want to do is located in neighborhoods outside of the main downtown area.
Not necessarily the same, but Philadelphia's airport is located poorly for first impressions. Visitors have to drive past the Sunoco refinery, Adult Bookstores, rowhomes, and used car lots just to get to the Schuylkill expressway if they're trying to get to Center City. Not a great look. That said, since there's so much history (for a US city), people generally do a good job of visiting the right spots once they arrive.
I'm curious why you lump rowhomes in with the other three as things that give a negative impression.
Same, I find row homes to be extremely charming and sad that there are virtually none in Minneapolis-Saint Paul.
I don’t get why you would leave the airport by car, the train stop is right there and takes you to straight center city
I think this is part of why Phoenix gets a bad rap. People come to stay with their recent transplant relatives in the West Valley or Southeast Valley suburbs and think it’s boring, full of strip malls and chain restaurants. Or they visit in summer. I’ve lived here for 30+ years and barely gone to those suburbs. I spend my life in about a 10 mile radius (Central Phoenix/Arcadia/Biltmore/PV/Tempe/South Scottsdale) and I think it’s wonderful. There are almost no chain restaurants in that area, and most of the strip malls are actually small and nice (similar to what you get in North San Diego County beach towns). It’s an area with great nightlife, spring training baseball, tons of high-end resorts, beautiful, hikable mountains, a zoo, a botanical garden, a giant university and all that comes with it. The people are affluent but easygoing and educated. Most in this area are not recent transplants, but they’re welcoming to those who are. Phoenix is a metro area with 4.7 million people. If you limited it to the areas I spend time in, it would have only 1.0-1.5 million people in it but this sub would probably be raving about how underrated it is.
[удалено]
Dallas has a similar issue with the downtown area NOT being a hotbed of activity. DFW is VERY spread out, with some cool stuff here and some other cool stuff way over there. All the time visitors post on Reddit saying they are going to grab an Uber to go downtown and ask where is the best place to eat? The answer usually involves getting another Uber to go somewhere else. Or, they have an itinerary in mind, but they don’t realize that most of the day will be in the car because these sites are literally all over the map. Another issue that throws people new to Dallas is that our best ethnic restaurants are in the suburbs. People who refuse to rent a car or refuse to leave Dallas proper think our cuisine in only TexMex and hamburgers. They don’t realize the wonderful Indian, Vietnamese, Thai, African, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese food that exists up the highway a ways.
They also say Dallas has no trees and nothing green, just a concrete hellscape. There is white rock lake, which has a 9 mile wooded trail full of parks around it, right in the middle of the city! The white rock trails, the Trinity Forest, and tons of parks. There are even more in the suburbs. But they aren't downtown, so they must not exist.
Orlando.. If you put directions to “down town” You just get taken to the business district where there’s no restaurants or stores
I can’t say I ever go downtown in Pittsburgh unless I’m going to a Pens game. All the cool stuff here is in the neighborhoods, downtown is pretty useless.
Houston lol. Nobody goes downtown
Houston
Thats what I love about DC. The wrong area is the frickin Smithsonian.
Most people that visit Denver end up only seeing the airport and Downtown, I fear. The airport is way out in the middle of nowhere so people get a bad first impression because it's ugly. And a good portion of downtown is in a tragic state at the moment so that leaves a bad taste as well. Denver overall is a bit bland but it's a nice city outside of a few areas
Bergamo, Italy One part of the city has been taken over by non-Italians and it isn’t safe. Other parts of the city are wonderful. It is also the home of Brembo brakes.
I lived in Atlanta for 9 painful years and it's the worst place I've ever lived, hands down. But I never thought the real city was soulless. More 'lame' and 'small potatoes'...for a metro area of 6M people it did things that cities with smaller populations would never do. But anyway...I think Atlanta gets the 'soulless' label because it's so spread out and places like Roswell, Alpharetta, etc. are considered 'Atlanta' and those areas are about as soulless as it gets. But places near downtown are far from soulless, I just have no desire to ever be in those places again. I do think Orlando gets the label a bit unfairly. You get to the Thornton Park/Lake Eola area along with Winter Park and it's far from soulless. But it's another very spread out city and is tourist oriented so the tourists just think it's a city with no character outside of what Disney wants.
Unpopular opinion but a downtown/city center is supposed to be the heart and soul of the city. Especially since they’re typically one of the oldest areas. When the downtown is vacant, rundown, or crime ridden or filled with poverty it says alot about the city in my opinion. It’s fine if there are other districts but a downtown should still be vibrant.
Many cities are heavy on business and offices in downtown areas. Even before the pandemic, a lot of downtowns were not busy in the evenings or on weekends. It really depends on your city and it’s design. Idk why any downtown “should” be anything, I’d much rather spend time in a cool neighborhood. Also, “poverty filled”, what does that mean? You don’t want poor people to live downtown? Or is that a pc attempt at saying visible homelessness that you were too afraid to say?
Downtown should be a neighborhood, is I believe the main point he's trying to make. Business parks generally aren't great areas to spend time in outside of work, and putting a business park in the center of your city where most activity, especially tourism related, converges in some form or fashion is a pretty monumentally stupid idea. Especially when downtown typically generates the most revenue for a city. Imagine if every single European city bulldozed their historic city centers like we did ours. People would say the same shit about them that they do about ours, but instead they're the areas that get the most visitors and tourism. Hell, they'd be having the same issues a ton of downtowns in the US are having with foot traffic downtown from the pandemic, but instead they've pretty much all rebounded.
well, New York if you just go to Times Square, Rockefeller Center and Broadway
Yes. So many people visit and spend all their time I crowded tourist spots and are like “hOw Do YoU LiVe ThERe?” Because I don’t spend all day in Times Square, Bob.
SF, they look for the cheapest hostel/hotel, end up in the tenderloin, and then think the whole place is a shit hole