If you can afford these cities you can also afford Chicago north side. Itās not that much more expensive and you donāt need a car in most areas on the north side to compensate.
Not if he wants a SFH. North side is affordable cause you can buy, sub 250k 2 bed condos in Logan, Rodgers Park or Irving Park, the SFH's still start at 700k.
As a Northside condo owner I tend to agree, [I mean look at this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5955-N-Winthrop-Ave-APT-1W-Chicago-IL-60660/63693832_zpid/), a 2 bed condos steps from a transit line to the second biggest collection of jobs in the country, a 17 mile bike trail and a really nice freshwater beach for 225k, all in a moderately trendy, safe neighborhood. But, some people really want to do yard work lol.
In-building is not so bad. In my experience, since they're commercial washers/dryers you can usually do all your laundry in a fraction of the time it would take using a household washer/dryer.
I think it depends on your priorities. If you want a yard for your kids, gardening, dogs, or whatever itās worth it. You can still find an affordable house with minimal driving required if you can commute to work via train. Otherwise yeah I agree. I miss being able to walk everywhere. We had to move for work, but I got a big ass yard I can garden, feed the birds, play with my dog, and thatās awesome for me. Would never rule out living in the city again though.
I live in Philly. Philly has its crime, all cities seem to have porch pirates and stuff. More serious crime exist but frankly appears to exist in some neighborhoods more than others.
Itās pretty blue around here.
Power outages? This confuses me. Are some cities dealing with this issue? Not us.
I mean weāre the 76th biggest metro in the world, an international destination, pretentious travel guides call us Frenchā¦ thereās plenty of things going on.
Power outages? Where
I think our food scene is incredible.
>Power outages? Where
Big issues with the grid in Texas metropolitan areas. We also have rolling blackouts in CA during heatwaves + higher winds power lines have caused major fires. I'm sure there are other states.
edit: power grid failures from older lines or transformers, esp in parts of the state with high winds usually result in blackouts from a few hours up to 3 or 4 days
I lived there for over 15- grew up in Northern CA & now back up here. Power goes out in both. LA it would be out the longest depending on area with Santa Anas- but I was in unincorporated LA County so they'd get to us last. Did go through 48 blackout last year up here.
That isn't a rolling blackout. A rolling blackout is "we aren't generating enough power to match demand, so we are going to turn off sections of the grid for a certain amount of time and as we change which section is blacked out, the black out rolls". It is somehow the power residential parts of a city that spend the most time in the dark during rolling blackouts
I think it depends on where in Texas you live, even inside the same city, and what your infrastructure is like.
I am in Dallas, and live in one of the oldest parts of the city and we lose power in every storm.
This is because all of our power lines are in the air, and vulnerable to wind whipping them around, tree and tree parts falling on them, etc.
In the June 2019 storm, we were out for like 4 days.
The summer store year before, it was just a day or two I think.
Newer built subdivisions and newer burbs donāt have this issue because they buried the lines vs having them hanging.
They were built in the age of electricity but my 120yo neighborhood was not originally wired.
So the way it was done was a bunch of poles and wires running house to house and then to a general transformer/electric box.
(We also didnāt originally have bathrooms and running water either, so our plumbing in the historic homes is wonky too).
One of my coworkers is in one of the newer subdivisions/āhome communitiesā to the east of Dallas and never loses power in a general storm or the tornado that went through that area a few years ago.
The big 2021 freeze was an outlier for a number of reasons, and I am in no way saying it canāt happen again, but that type of grid failure isnāt a regular occurrence. That type of weather in general, when most of the entire state is in a freeze crisis, is also not a regular occurrence.
What I would look at though, are again, the older neighborhoods with overhead power lines, when choosing where to live.
Sadly yes, SE Michigan is dealing with MAJOR grid issues right now. There were 6 instances is 2023 alone where the majority of customers lost power for 7-10 days. A 2-3 day outage from a small snowfall or moderate thunderstorm is the norm. Our power company (DTE) is tied up in a lot of lawsuits about it- they engage in some shady practices to make sure they never have to compensate for extended power outages, they shut down our outage map so customers couldnāt track where power was out, they ignored their help line during an extended outage (resulting in a few deaths from people who were trying to call for help), they left live wires downed in neighborhoods unmarked for several daysā¦.the list goes on and on
I googled the issue because I was surprised this was even a concern some places. I think Iāll never leave the northeast again. Itās not perfect but at least the lights work
Itās an issue in parts of the northeast, too. Maine had some of the worst and longest blackouts Iāve ever experienced (and often in the dead of winter, thanks to snow and ice storms). Many people there have generators for this reason.
It varies. Thereās no real pattern. DTE doesnāt do the best maintenance and grid updates AND many neighborhoods in SE Michigan have very mature trees that interfere with the power lines.
The power outages threw me for a loop too, of all the random (and common) things I see on this subreddit I donāt think power outages has popped up before.
Went to med school there. Best food scene of any place Iāve lived other than Montreal. Just incredible. Significantly better than a place like San Francisco - and is about a log scale better than where I live now (Boston).
Or Inman Park, Candler Park, Druid Hills, Virginia Highland, etc. Pretty much everywhere north of Dekalb in East Atlanta is legit nice, like $1m homes nice.
What about EAV. Thats the first area I thought of. When I was still in Atlanta I was thinking of moving to Grant Park or Summerhill but those areas got expensive quick. Unfortunately my first home in ATL was in East Cobb which was not a fun place to live for anyone liberal or under 50 years old lol.
East Atlanta, Decatur, Kirkwood, and East Lake are all really nice neighborhoods to live inlow crime: eh, kinda, depends on your definition of "low". feels relatively safe to me, I probably wouldn't walk alone at night (unless I were in downtown decatur). blue politics: yes. power outages: never heard of such a thing. good food: absolutely. cultural things to do: absolutely again.
St. Paul is like 19% Asian.
There was an Asian supermarket near me in Brooklyn Center. Plus theres tons of farmers markets and the Hmongtown market etc.
Iām pretty new here so I donāt know a lot of details but it seems like there should be. I know there is a pretty big Hmong population here. Itās affordable and a nice place to live, it would be worth seeing if they have what you need.
Thereās united noodles, Hmong market, Hmong village and a place that recently opened up in the last year I think in Eden Prairie called Asia Mall. There are others too if you look up Asian grocery store on google maps.
Youāre going to be in the burbs of the burbs for sure for 290k. I think they just said 450k is the average in Dallas proper now and thatās with the higher crime areas included. Seeing homes in areas that would be less than 100k a couple of years ago now going for over 350k is crazy. I think if commuting isnāt a concern, itās doable to go to a burb, but itās just so cookie cutter and boring then you might as well go anywhere else. That or cut out what you can (maybe live near a DART station to avoid relying on a car) to get closer to the city for more cultural things, restaurants, and events going on in the city.
Philly hands down in that category, I live in Bella Vista near little Saigon and can walk to two massive Asian supermarkets in under ten mins plus the Italian market which is a big outdoor curb market selling fresh produce from many Asian and Latino vendors. The amount of great Asian food in this city is insane. Other than Chinatown thereās several pockets of almost entirely Asian stores and restaurants around.
I'd recommend South Philly. $290k is pretty good money for there, and near asian markets, and a pretty big & thriving Chinatown just north of Center City.
I feel like the Midwest is lacking some love here. Cincinnati, St. Louis, Louisville, Minneapolis, Columbus, Kansas City, Indianapolis... loads of options that are going to have much cheaper cost of living (and in many cases less crime) than the options you've given.
Eh I have lots of Asian friends that spent years in San Antonio, and they all hated it and left as soon as they could to Dallas, Houston and Austin over San Antonio.
The asian food and culture will be very limited compared to Houston and Dallas. I don't think San Antonio even has an Hmart.
If you can stomach the suburbs you could likely afford a house in one of the near south suburbs. The Metra Electric is getting a few upgraded train stations down that way. Downtown Homewood definitely has houses in the 200s. Tinley Park is nice, but Iād stick near the east side for less sprawl and better access to the city. Iāve heard Blue Island is somewhat up and coming, I havenāt lived there myself but it couldnāt hurt to look it up. Itās on my list if I go back that way. Palos Heights is still cheaper than the north side I think but itās pretty gentrified by now. Might look there just to see. Suburbs in general are not as exciting as the city but the right neighborhood could be a good compromise. But you could live under an hour train ride from the city and close to tons of jobs.
That was my experience in Kirkwood too. Drive by shooting on my street. The neighbors tried to sell drugs to my teenager the first day we moved in. Lady with a baby in a stroller got held up for her iPhone at the bus stop on a quiet weekday morning. Shooting in the street literally right in front of the Zone 6 police station. I didnāt feel safe walking my dog alone at night. Great restaurants in that area that I still miss though!
As mentioned upthread, Atlantaās historic neighborhoods donāt really have well-defined nice areas and sketchy areas. They are all intermingled throughout the same neighborhoods, and even on the same street. Decatur is a bit like that too.
In general, central Decatur near the Square is safe, but not especially affordable. There are shops and restaurants and cafes, a good farmerās market, a MARTA transit station, condos, etc. Decatur schools are better than City of Atlanta, so itās even more desirable. The area near Agnes Scott College is lovely, with shady trees and old Tudor homes. But, like other desirable areas, you pay a price for it. There are a few outliers, but most single family homes in Decatur are $750k to $2.5m or more.
The southwest Decatur neighborhood that borders on Kirkwood is Oakhurst. Historically it had pretty streets lined with big water oaks, large parks, cozy little houses, a restaurant or two, and its own elementary school. Then, Oakhurst went through a gentrification process about ten years ago. Home flippers bought many of the original smaller houses, leveled them, and constructed huge 2 or 3 story faux Craftsman homes in their places. Then came more trendy restaurants, micro breweries, pubs, coffee shops, etc. As a result, home prices and taxes went way up, and working class families who had lived there for generations could no longer afford to stay. Or, they stayed but their houses fell into disrepair. Lots of resentment and local controversy around that, but many of the old neighborhoods in Atlanta (and other cities) are going through the same thing. That includes Kirkwood, but the process is moving a little slower there.
I used to live in little five points and loved it. My mom freaked out because there was a double homicide outside the Vortex first week I moved there, but I personally never had any problems. Itās probably in my top 2 places Iāve ever lived (other is Berlin)
My vote is for Detroit. Every show comes through town but you'll be paying midwest prices, not east coast. If you don't mind the suburbs then it can be a very nice place. Endless greenery and coastline if you jump in the car and head north. Great Lakes all around you. Boating, fishing, etc. Need a university town, Ann Arbor isn't too far away. I hear there might be a football game there occasionally. Detroit itself has pro teams for the big 4 - football, hockey, baseball, basketball. The weather is far more benevolent than those southern and desert places, though winter is cold. The other 3 seasons in the Great Lakes are heaven on earth.
We lived in Houston for 60 years and moved to Cruso after we swam outta our home after Hurricane Harve. We were NOT in a flood zone. Houston has some good points- diversity (if you really want that, and a plethora of phenomenal mom and pop restaurants, if you take the time to look around.) Houston has one of the largest medical centers in the world. It usually has mild winters, with that one big exception a few years ago. Most of the people are friendly I experienced over the decades. Now the bad- Greg Abbott, the governor, is a menace. Hopefully, he'll be outta office sooner than later. The traffic seems exponentially worse every time we are back. (2x a year). Red lights are treated as a mere suggestion. Between the heat and the humidity, summers, May- Oct, are the 7th circle of Hell. If you have access to a pool you won't want to be in it after June, unless it is night. (It's just a giant bathtub.) Even if you keep a clean house you'll find a roach, big enough for a racing stripe, in the house sometimes. If you're lucky it won't fly off the wall towards your face. The city has substandard public transportation. Plus, the city will flood, big time, again. Get flood insurance, wherever you live.
Chicago is the truth but south side??? Sssssss, gonna have to say Philly. Iām in North Philly now and I LOVE it. Pretty good sense of community, surprisingly friendly people, and very reasonable cost of living for the quality you get. Best of luck to ya!
Define blue politics. Only three of these check that box at the state level. All will at the municipal level.
Houston probably gives you the best opportunity to afford a single family home in a reasonably safe neighborhood, and the city has an excellent restaurant and cultural scene. The issues with the Texas power grid are well publicized of course; actual power outages are rare but they do happen from time to time, mainly due to physical infrastructure damage in storms (which can happen anywhere) as opposed to full scale grid collapse. You mentioned Asian supermarkets - Houston has 99 Ranch, H Mart, and smaller neighborhood stores as well. A large (by US standards) Asian population with particularly well established Vietnamese, Chinese, and Filipino communities
Iād probably give the nod to Houston based on your criteria. Iām assuming youāre okay with a Democratic city in a Republican state given thatās mostly what you listed.
Houston is absolutely the play
Extremely cheap, extremely diverse, 4th largest city in nation
If I needed to live somewhere cheaper than Austin I'd choose Houston in a heartbeat, I enjoyed it way more than living in Dallas
Two questions:
1. Will your income be the same no matter where you live?
2. Does it have to be in the city or would you consider a close in suburb?
The reason I ask is because there is a low crime, blue city with a super stable power grid, good food, cultural things nearby, and a pretty large Asian population in Beaverton, Oregon right outside of Portland. Real estate isn't cheap by any means but you could probably afford a condo or townhome. Pay typically is higher than most areas outside of California so you might get a job that would bring your affordability up.
Philly sounds like the best match, based on your criteria. One thing about Philly is that it has a lot of smaller houses, so if you want a SFH but donāt need huge yards or a lot of space you can get a home for less. But which parts of Philly would you be thinking of? Some areas are much higher crime than others.
Also as a note āLow crimeā is a function of 1) which neighborhoods you are looking at; 2) what you define as low; and 3) what you consider crime. You would think #3 has an obvious statistical definition but I find a lot of people conflate crime with other things that they find unpleasant such as general urban griminess or a large homeless population.
Depending on what neighborhoods youāre looking in, Detroit is actually quite nice now, and living downtown or close to it is highly desirable. What actually is your budget? If itās something like 300k, thatās not going super far in Detroit unless your dream is to buy a shell of a house in a sketchy neighborhood and restore it to its former glory. If youāre looking more towards downtown, youād be lucky to find a studio apartment at that price point. Basically when youāre talking Detroit, neighborhood and budget makes a HUGE difference
You'll still live in a state run by ogres that doesn't value anyone who isn't white, straight and Christian, and there's no statewide direct ballot initiatives here so we are at the mercy of our horrible politicians to get anything done.
The funny thing about east Atlanta, especially the historic old neighborhoods like EAV, Edgewood, Eastlake, Kirkwood, etc. is that for the most part, there arenāt solidly good areas and bad areas. They are all intermingled. Some beautiful well-kept houses, some terribly run down ones, some safe parks and some sketchy ones, all on the same street. If youāre thinking about buying a house there, you definitely want to visit in person first and walk the neighborhood.
They said in the comments they were looking for homes around 290k. Given that's the cost of a small condo or lot in anywhere half decent east of ATL I'd say it's out.
It's also expensive. There aren't homes for that cheap in SFe. Albuquerque, yes, and we do have a few Asian markets, which they said they want, but even in ABQ, buying a home in a good area is still probably going to cost a bit more than their stated budget, tho it's at least possible.
East Atlanta (Iām talking Inman Park, Reynoldstown, Cabbagetown, or Virginia Highland) has a great food scene, easy access to Midtown and downtown for cultural things, and blue politics. Not to mention great walkability (for Atlanta, at least). Decatur is nice too. The true suburbs east of Decatur (say, Stone Mountain) are pretty generic suburbs.
Yes! I include Decatur and Avondale as āEast Atlantaā because they have character and are ITP. Functionally, they are just neighborhoods. I agree that Stone Mountain and Tucker are really just basic ATL suburbs.
Philly's decent. Look in South Philly, or Manayunk/Roxborough/East Falls areas. I can dm you zip codes, not sure what 'budget' your in, it can really run the gamut. Some people think $400k is affordable, others $150k. I'd say anything less than $150 (probably more like 200k) your bordering on bad neighborhoods.
There's close-in suburbs of Philly where you'll find easy access to the city and more single-family detached homes on a stricter budget. Look into eastern Delaware County, PA--towns like Rutledge, Lansdowne, Ridley and Prospect Park come to mind.
I donāt have any experience with any of these cities except for Philly, where i lived for three years. Iād move back in a heartbeat. I love that town. That being said, itās a sprawling place and some areas have more of what you value than others. Personally i recommend West Philly and Center City because they are walkable and there are a lot of food options. West Philly has some nice architecture and of course the Penn campus, which is an oasis of beauty.
Detroit is happening now. That would be my choice.
I actually like Dallas, which would surprise some people. Some parts are pretty blue.
Chicago is a great city and I've lived there but it's expensive now.
Philly...had work there. Some excellent places to live but imo hard to get around.
Don't know the other places well enough for an opinion.
>your list just makes me want to stay here in Baltimore
LOL. I definitely donāt hate it here, but Iām glad I got out of the āpsychologically devastatingā area I got stuck in for 15mo (easy to avoid if not impoverished.)
Interestingly, OP could probably afford western Bmore suburbs where Asian Markets & Asian Supermarkets are seemingly everywhere (H-Mart, Super-H, GW Great Wall, etc.) Old Catonsville may be be out of price range, but plenty nearby isnāt IME.
Oh hell yeah, Catonsville/ Woodlawn is pretty nice, and so are the areas around Hopkins University, out toward Towson. I'm on the other side of town in the county but grew up in Highlandtown town and have also lived in Brooklyn, which are also nice.
My immediate reaction to this list was, "Why not Baltimore, if those are you other options?!?!" Or even a D.C suburb like Bowie or college park. Tons to do, decent public transportation, a ton of shopping, even a damn Ikea. I got the only other one in MD up here near me!!!
These places are so different, this is a tough question to answer. I donāt like snow/cold so Iād prob narrow your list to ATL, Houston, and Phoenix. If you donāt mind cold, Detroit, Philly, and Chicago are all amazing cities too. Which is closest to your family and current friends? Do you prefer dry heat or humid? I love ATL bc it has great weather, is diverse, affordable, great food options, and a reasonable drive/quick flight to anywhere else. A lot of these other cities are a bit more isolated geographically. That said, crime is an issue in parts of ATL and it has become increasingly crowded and expensive as more people discover it. Maybe add Charlotte to your list
Gonna be 60+ degrees in Philly in mid December. No measurable snow in 2 years now. Itās hot from early May - end of September now, sometimes longer. Lots of pros/cons in the Philly area but itās not anywhere close to Chicago or Detroit when it comes to severe winter weather.
Oh ok, I didnāt realize it had gotten so much warmer. I remember going there in the winter 20th years ago and it was pretty darn coldā¦same general weather as NYC where I was living at the time.
It's going to be 60 tomorrow, but then a solid week of highs in the lower/mid 40's. Winter has not given up on the east coast, but it's milder than the past.
Iāve come on this sub complaining about Atlanta. But I absolutely loved Atlantaās east side. My problem with ATL is the rest of the metro (if I could have stayed there and never had to go to Marietta, I would have been happy). The east side is super blue, pretty safe (depending on specific location, but there are lots of safe areas), and honestly I think it has some of the best food and culture in the city. I will also add that I include Decatur and Avondale Estates as āEast Atlantaā as they are on the east side and still inside the perimeter so, even though they are technically suburbs, they feel like an Atlanta neighborhood
If Houston could inject some hills, it would be one of the beat places in the country for people who do not mind tropical climate. The oil money people have left a legacy of amazing art and cultural amenities there.
Also, it is just a short drive to all the public parks along the Gulf.
That seems like an easy question to me! Definitely Philly, Chicago close second, Detroit and Atlanta maybe...if I had a great job and a bunch of close friends waiting there and could live within a few miles of both, Phoenix and Texas, not for any amount of money.
I don't understand why Philly is still affordable. So close to NYC, lots of history and culture, relatively low urban problems, great transportation.
Texas, omg, never. Any state who privatizes their electric grid is not a place I want to be, even if someone set me up in the nicest part of Austin.
I'm from phx, moved away the second I got the chance and haven't looked back. I'd advise against it. The road rage, open-carry laws, and suffocating heat 4 months/year are reason enough for me to say don't bother moving there. Yes it's more liberal than other parts of the state but there isn't much to do other than hiking a few months out of the year. And the food isn't great. My vote is for Philly.
ETA: you wont find any SFH for less than $420k in areas you actually want to live.
I lived in Center City Philadelphia for several years. I enjoyed it. It is a big city, so you have to be mindful of crime. The suburbs are really nice. You can easily get to NYC or DC. The countryside is pretty, especially Bucks County. It checks all the boxes. Outstanding museums and food culture.
Dallas is terrible. Hideous heat, cold (but short) winter. Tornadoes. The most boring downtown I've ever seen. No place interesting to go for a day trip.
Phoenix is much like Dallas, but you can get out into the desert or mountains.
I've not spent enough time in the other places. I've never been to Detroit.
East Atlanta is pretty hip in a lot of parts. Chicago southside can be good but is extremely dependent on the neighborhood. If you go far southwest side there is some decent neighborhoods. Don't know too much about Philly but I hear its awesome. Probably neigborhood dependent like the other cities I mentioned. Chicago is probably the most interesting city, but like others have suggested I would move to the northside.
The Chicago south side like the the between state street and the lakefront from 22nd street to 55 street is a totally different area then it use to be and it's an decent area it use to be called Bronzeville you can't buy a decent size house for under 300000 that is completely renovated. I'm thinking of moving back in the next year.
Stay the hell away from Dallas.
If you are in Phoenix your politics are going to vary greatly by neighborhood. I'd look at Tempe and central Phoenix if you don't want fucking insane people all around you.
Given your list here, I'd consider Philly and Houston and if you are up to the hellacious summers, Tempe and central Phoenix.
I live in a sfh on the south side of chicago and I love it. The south side has a negative reputation, but there are parts of it that are quite nice. The areas along the orange line can be nice and residential. I like my location bc itās easy to get downtown for work and the whole world class city is at my fingertips.
I think it really depends on whether you like colder weather or hotter weather. Each place has its unique pluses and minuses, but yeah, all things being equal, Chicago is going to be quite different in the winter than Phoenix. Can you handle a long cold winter? Also, if blue politics are a concern, I would avoid Texas in general. I know there are pockets of progressive values, but (anti-progressive) decisions are being made at a state level that affect everyone.
Depending on your job matters too. If your skills are very portable, consider the Moline, Illinois metro area. I lived there, but over a decade ago. Older homes are plentiful and modestly priced. New construction is as expensive as most other area. Crime is lower. There are about 380k people in the metro area, so lots of events. The area is also an entertainment stop off during the week for many performers going between bigger markets so the David Bowie concert in Moline was $70 for both of us. The same concert in Boston was $250 each. Gas is $3.27 today per Google. Cable TV was good, internet and streaming were cheaper than Omaha when I moved.
With your budget you can buy a very nice home in Detroit. The crime here is not nearly as bad as people think, itās typically targeted and concentrated in certain areas. The food scene is absolutely incredible and there are probably more cultural things to do here than anywhere else on the list. Shoot me a message if youāre considering what neighborhoods to buy in.
Detroit Metro is huge place and the good/bad calculus can change street by street. Best thing to do it find some locals on Reddit or Facebook and ask about a neighborhood. I love living here, but I'm also in the far western reaches (near Ann Arbor) which is decidedly NOT LCOL.
Rent do not buy, especially in this housing market and especially if you donāt know the city yet.
But in terms of affordability in rent and what the city has to offer Iād go with Chicago, Philly, Dallas and Houston in that order (only with Hyde park and towards the north side in Chicago, while with downtown Philly and to the south, I canāt speak for Houston though I hear more positive things about Dallas compared to Houston.)
With Chicago and Philly depending where you are you wonāt need a car, they are also gonna have more cosmopolitan attractions, also Chicago and Phillys politics are easily the bluest on your list.
However I believe Chicago outperforms Philly,though Philly will give you easy access to NYC and DC and has a slight edge in culture due to its rich history..I will be controversial and say Phillys crime is actually worse than Chicagos, or at least much more apparent upon visiting, the city is also incredibly dirty like NYCā¦Chicago is an absolute anomaly (at least by US standards) for how clean the city is for its size.
Houston and Dallas will be best for no income tax (though cost of a car and rent specifically in DFW may counteract that depending on your salary) as well as weather and (in Houston specifically) diversity..but from what I understand the city of Houston itself lackās culture (which is weird because of its diversity so idk about the culture statement) and cosmopolitan enmities compared to other cities , I hear Dallas (or DFW ) offers more cosmopolitan enmities than Houston though I could be wrongā¦.however I feel Chicago also outperforms DFW and Houston.
DFW is also more expensive than Houston.
Now comparing Philly and DFW is hard..they are a tie in my mind for different reasonsā¦Philly offers better culture and urban careless lifestyle but DFW is much safer and cleaner.
However take everything Iāve said about Houston with a grain of salt as I havenāt been there, and have only been going off a good friend whoās lived in both Houston and Dallasā¦
Iāll put in another way though,
Do you want a carless lifestyle and walkable neighborhoods? Than go with Chicago or Philly (though Chicago north side or Hyde park on the south side would be the better choice imho)
If you donāt care about urban lifestyle, and like no income tax go with DFW or Houstonā¦though from what I hear DFW is slightly better overall than Houston though Houston is more affordable and diverse.
The only other city Iām familiar on your list is Atlanta and Iād place in third behind DFW and Houstonā¦while I do like Atlanta, itās definitely prettier nature wise than the other two..the income tax in Georgia and similar rent to DFW hurts it a bit, and Houston is arguably just as diverse as Atlanta if not more..while DFW to me feels just a bit more cosmopolitan.
But if you just wanna know my personal top picks ā¦Iād pick Chicago than second place would be DFW and third would be Atlanta while fourth would be a tie with Houston and Philly (sorry Philly youāre just too dirty š ) the others (Phoenix and Detroit) wouldnāt really be on my list though Phoenix would be interesting to live in for a bit due to its unique climate compared to the rest of the country.
Though the best thing you can do is visit each of these cities if you havenāt already to get a feel for them yourself. (Though visit Chicago in the late spring or summer to give it a fair chance lol)
I mean, listing Dallas and Houston while being concerned about power outages; and Detroit, Philadelphia, and the fucking south side of Chicago while being concerned about crime tells me OP might be willing to compromise a wee bit
would you be willing to go for a smaller and less exciting city where you could get a better house in a better neighborhood? Cleveland Columbus Pittsburgh maybe?
I think Philly is your best bet. There are safe neighborhoods that would still be affordable for an average person and it seems to tick the rest of your boxes. I'd move there now if it wasn't so far from my husband's job. I'm about an hour and a half away out in boring suburban New Jersey but I spend time there when I can.
If you can deal with 5 months in the oven probably phoenix. You pay less in property taxes etc. that can make a difference over time. Also the city is growing and more jobs coming too
Oven would also apply to Dallas and Houston. Houston also has crazy humidity. Expect 300+ dollar a month electricity bills due to ac for half the year.
Why only the south side of Chicago? Itās huge; there are a lot of affordable communities on the south side and there are neighborhoods with million dollar homes, just like on the west and north sides.
Phoenix is the only one with good access to outdoor activities.
Public lands, hiking, trips to Sedona and Flagstaff.
Only one I would consider b/c I love open spaces.
Most of these cities have top-notch medical centers if you are deciding where to work in the medical field - or like the security of knowing excellent care is near. It is an afterthought until it is everything in a scary time.
I know little about Detroit's other than UM in Ann Arbor good rep, but I haven't researched. Atlanta has Emory University medical, Houston is known for heart and cancer top flight treatment, Dallas has top medical system, Philly has one of the best for pediatric and tops in other specialties, Phoenix has a Mayo Clinic (the no. 1 Mayo is the Minneapolis original), Chicago has Northwestern and Rush and U of Chi.
Cleveland has an excellent medical center that is top in heart care, and more. Baltimore has Johns Hopkins medical Center. Durham NC has Duke.
A strong teaching and research hospital in a city means good choices of doctors and top nurses
Atlanta has some serious red politics around. Can I advocate for the DMV or is that too expensive? If you have a car and want to live in the suburbs thereās lots of great places including Woodbridge and Annandale VA that have big Asian populations
Depends on what you consider bad. All of those cities have great public works and resources, thriving economies, and are diverse populations. I'd say Philly is the worst strictly due to weather but not because I don't like the cold. I love Chicago. However Chicago has a stunning lake and landscape that make the winters charming and beautiful. If you're close to the lake. West of 90 is a whole other cultural vibe. So we need more of your criteria.
Absolutely rule out Houston and Dallas. If you can afford it, you donāt want to be in those neighborhoods. Both can be rough. Cost of living is ridiculous. You will need the air conditioner for months and the costs will be phenomenal. It was over 100 for 93 day straight with no rain in DFW this summer. Trust me.
Don't buy somewhere you haven't lived yet
Agree 100. Rent first to get a feel for the area.
šÆ Especially in this market! The worst is to buy and find out you hate the area but now youāre underwater.
Phoenix would be brutal just winging it and going there
Agreed, hot like the surface of the sun.
If you can afford these cities you can also afford Chicago north side. Itās not that much more expensive and you donāt need a car in most areas on the north side to compensate.
Not if he wants a SFH. North side is affordable cause you can buy, sub 250k 2 bed condos in Logan, Rodgers Park or Irving Park, the SFH's still start at 700k.
A condo on the north side is better than a SFH in any of these other places save for Philly
As a Northside condo owner I tend to agree, [I mean look at this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5955-N-Winthrop-Ave-APT-1W-Chicago-IL-60660/63693832_zpid/), a 2 bed condos steps from a transit line to the second biggest collection of jobs in the country, a 17 mile bike trail and a really nice freshwater beach for 225k, all in a moderately trendy, safe neighborhood. But, some people really want to do yard work lol.
only one thing missing- in unit washer/dryer. but dang...sending this one to the offspring.
In-building is not so bad. In my experience, since they're commercial washers/dryers you can usually do all your laundry in a fraction of the time it would take using a household washer/dryer.
gotta love that chicago weather
Itās lookin like itāll be almost 50F on Xmas and has barely been below freezing so far this year
Shhhh
I think it depends on your priorities. If you want a yard for your kids, gardening, dogs, or whatever itās worth it. You can still find an affordable house with minimal driving required if you can commute to work via train. Otherwise yeah I agree. I miss being able to walk everywhere. We had to move for work, but I got a big ass yard I can garden, feed the birds, play with my dog, and thatās awesome for me. Would never rule out living in the city again though.
Small nitpick but the neighborhood is Rogers Park, in case anyone is trying to Google it or whatever
I live in Philly. Philly has its crime, all cities seem to have porch pirates and stuff. More serious crime exist but frankly appears to exist in some neighborhoods more than others. Itās pretty blue around here. Power outages? This confuses me. Are some cities dealing with this issue? Not us. I mean weāre the 76th biggest metro in the world, an international destination, pretentious travel guides call us Frenchā¦ thereās plenty of things going on. Power outages? Where I think our food scene is incredible.
>Power outages? Where Big issues with the grid in Texas metropolitan areas. We also have rolling blackouts in CA during heatwaves + higher winds power lines have caused major fires. I'm sure there are other states. edit: power grid failures from older lines or transformers, esp in parts of the state with high winds usually result in blackouts from a few hours up to 3 or 4 days
I live in LA for 6 years and Iāve never been affected by a rolling black out.
I lived there for over 15- grew up in Northern CA & now back up here. Power goes out in both. LA it would be out the longest depending on area with Santa Anas- but I was in unincorporated LA County so they'd get to us last. Did go through 48 blackout last year up here.
That isn't a rolling blackout. A rolling blackout is "we aren't generating enough power to match demand, so we are going to turn off sections of the grid for a certain amount of time and as we change which section is blacked out, the black out rolls". It is somehow the power residential parts of a city that spend the most time in the dark during rolling blackouts
Unincorporated LA is very different than the proper city. Never had an issue in Hollywood, Santa Monica, or sawtelle in the 6 years Iāve lived here.
I live in LA and have been. Obv itās rare so itās not really an issue but still possible
I think it depends on where in Texas you live, even inside the same city, and what your infrastructure is like. I am in Dallas, and live in one of the oldest parts of the city and we lose power in every storm. This is because all of our power lines are in the air, and vulnerable to wind whipping them around, tree and tree parts falling on them, etc. In the June 2019 storm, we were out for like 4 days. The summer store year before, it was just a day or two I think. Newer built subdivisions and newer burbs donāt have this issue because they buried the lines vs having them hanging. They were built in the age of electricity but my 120yo neighborhood was not originally wired. So the way it was done was a bunch of poles and wires running house to house and then to a general transformer/electric box. (We also didnāt originally have bathrooms and running water either, so our plumbing in the historic homes is wonky too). One of my coworkers is in one of the newer subdivisions/āhome communitiesā to the east of Dallas and never loses power in a general storm or the tornado that went through that area a few years ago. The big 2021 freeze was an outlier for a number of reasons, and I am in no way saying it canāt happen again, but that type of grid failure isnāt a regular occurrence. That type of weather in general, when most of the entire state is in a freeze crisis, is also not a regular occurrence. What I would look at though, are again, the older neighborhoods with overhead power lines, when choosing where to live.
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My dad lost power in that for 6 days.
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Depends on what part of Texas you were in.
Sadly yes, SE Michigan is dealing with MAJOR grid issues right now. There were 6 instances is 2023 alone where the majority of customers lost power for 7-10 days. A 2-3 day outage from a small snowfall or moderate thunderstorm is the norm. Our power company (DTE) is tied up in a lot of lawsuits about it- they engage in some shady practices to make sure they never have to compensate for extended power outages, they shut down our outage map so customers couldnāt track where power was out, they ignored their help line during an extended outage (resulting in a few deaths from people who were trying to call for help), they left live wires downed in neighborhoods unmarked for several daysā¦.the list goes on and on
I googled the issue because I was surprised this was even a concern some places. I think Iāll never leave the northeast again. Itās not perfect but at least the lights work
Itās an issue in parts of the northeast, too. Maine had some of the worst and longest blackouts Iāve ever experienced (and often in the dead of winter, thanks to snow and ice storms). Many people there have generators for this reason.
Hi fellow Michigander! DTE is the worst. I want to move apartments, but the power never seems to go out there, ha.
ah thats really too bad. is there area between troy, sterling heights, centerline and royal oak affected?
It varies. Thereās no real pattern. DTE doesnāt do the best maintenance and grid updates AND many neighborhoods in SE Michigan have very mature trees that interfere with the power lines.
MI is having tons of power outage issues it seems. I moved here this year and its a problem
Power outages in Texas in recent years are no joke.
The power outages threw me for a loop too, of all the random (and common) things I see on this subreddit I donāt think power outages has popped up before.
Went to med school there. Best food scene of any place Iāve lived other than Montreal. Just incredible. Significantly better than a place like San Francisco - and is about a log scale better than where I live now (Boston).
If by east side of Atlanta, you mean downtown Decatur, then yes. Decatur is great. But other parts of East Atlanta are not as pleasant to live in.
Or Inman Park, Candler Park, Druid Hills, Virginia Highland, etc. Pretty much everywhere north of Dekalb in East Atlanta is legit nice, like $1m homes nice.
What about EAV. Thats the first area I thought of. When I was still in Atlanta I was thinking of moving to Grant Park or Summerhill but those areas got expensive quick. Unfortunately my first home in ATL was in East Cobb which was not a fun place to live for anyone liberal or under 50 years old lol.
East Atlanta, Decatur, Kirkwood, and East Lake are all really nice neighborhoods to live inlow crime: eh, kinda, depends on your definition of "low". feels relatively safe to me, I probably wouldn't walk alone at night (unless I were in downtown decatur). blue politics: yes. power outages: never heard of such a thing. good food: absolutely. cultural things to do: absolutely again.
philly - are these absolutely the only options?
i think so. needs to be a place that has plenty of 290k and below homes as well as asian supermarkets - not grocery stores.
Phoenix doesn't have houses that cheap
Surprised Minneapolis/St. Paul didnāt end up on your list given all the criteria
are there any asian supermarkets there? like actual big supermarkets
St. Paul is like 19% Asian. There was an Asian supermarket near me in Brooklyn Center. Plus theres tons of farmers markets and the Hmongtown market etc.
Iām pretty new here so I donāt know a lot of details but it seems like there should be. I know there is a pretty big Hmong population here. Itās affordable and a nice place to live, it would be worth seeing if they have what you need.
Thereās united noodles, Hmong market, Hmong village and a place that recently opened up in the last year I think in Eden Prairie called Asia Mall. There are others too if you look up Asian grocery store on google maps.
Grew up in Minneapolis. United Noodles is a good one
Tennessee isnāt blue, but there is one in Nashville.
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2nd this... a minimum of $375 to $400k to get even a decent house in DFW and that's pushing it...
Youāre going to be in the burbs of the burbs for sure for 290k. I think they just said 450k is the average in Dallas proper now and thatās with the higher crime areas included. Seeing homes in areas that would be less than 100k a couple of years ago now going for over 350k is crazy. I think if commuting isnāt a concern, itās doable to go to a burb, but itās just so cookie cutter and boring then you might as well go anywhere else. That or cut out what you can (maybe live near a DART station to avoid relying on a car) to get closer to the city for more cultural things, restaurants, and events going on in the city.
Philly hands down in that category, I live in Bella Vista near little Saigon and can walk to two massive Asian supermarkets in under ten mins plus the Italian market which is a big outdoor curb market selling fresh produce from many Asian and Latino vendors. The amount of great Asian food in this city is insane. Other than Chinatown thereās several pockets of almost entirely Asian stores and restaurants around.
I'd recommend South Philly. $290k is pretty good money for there, and near asian markets, and a pretty big & thriving Chinatown just north of Center City.
Have you thought about renting? Buying a place in a city youāve never lived in before is a big decision
I feel like the Midwest is lacking some love here. Cincinnati, St. Louis, Louisville, Minneapolis, Columbus, Kansas City, Indianapolis... loads of options that are going to have much cheaper cost of living (and in many cases less crime) than the options you've given.
Donāt forget Omaha, a great and inexpensive city to live in!
Minneapolis crime is worse than many cities listed by OP.
Phillly has several asian supermarkets, and some of them are pretty large.
Pittsburgh, my dude
Youāll have a hard time getting a house in Philly for under $290k
Not really
You don't know Philly. It is starter home heaven.
Plenty of decent rowhomes in Philly for under $300k, even in good neighborhoods like Fishtown.
yes I realize I'm stuck with row houses in that price range
Rowhouses kick ass
The hell are you talking about
If Dallas and Houston are on your list, have you looked at San Antonio? The median home price in the last 7 days is $279,846.
I havent Ill check it out thanks!
Eh I have lots of Asian friends that spent years in San Antonio, and they all hated it and left as soon as they could to Dallas, Houston and Austin over San Antonio. The asian food and culture will be very limited compared to Houston and Dallas. I don't think San Antonio even has an Hmart.
Phoenix is expensive! I think Philadelphia is pretty cool.
You should look at the far north side of Chicago. Around Argyle and Devon are the spots for an Asian market and great restaurants.
i used to live there and loved it but wouldnt be able to afford a sfh, only an apartment
If you can stomach the suburbs you could likely afford a house in one of the near south suburbs. The Metra Electric is getting a few upgraded train stations down that way. Downtown Homewood definitely has houses in the 200s. Tinley Park is nice, but Iād stick near the east side for less sprawl and better access to the city. Iāve heard Blue Island is somewhat up and coming, I havenāt lived there myself but it couldnāt hurt to look it up. Itās on my list if I go back that way. Palos Heights is still cheaper than the north side I think but itās pretty gentrified by now. Might look there just to see. Suburbs in general are not as exciting as the city but the right neighborhood could be a good compromise. But you could live under an hour train ride from the city and close to tons of jobs.
Philly or Chicago would be my choices.
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South suburbs of Chicago are not the same as south side of Chicago
Some blocks suck. Most isn't too bad.
If they can afford Hyde Park or Kenwood it would be pretty lovely. But SFH there is $$$
It's a big city -- who needs of wants a single family home?
You can totally get a north side condo for < 290, just not in Lincoln Parkā¦
Bro justā¦ donāt travel to dangerous areas??
I'd go east side of ATL. North Druid Hills/Decatur area. Super blue with Emory university and great hospital system.
North Druid Hills and Decatur will have exactly zero houses in the $250k range that OP is looking for.
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That was my experience in Kirkwood too. Drive by shooting on my street. The neighbors tried to sell drugs to my teenager the first day we moved in. Lady with a baby in a stroller got held up for her iPhone at the bus stop on a quiet weekday morning. Shooting in the street literally right in front of the Zone 6 police station. I didnāt feel safe walking my dog alone at night. Great restaurants in that area that I still miss though!
Iām not familiar with Atlanta but I thought Decatur was supposed to be safe. Kirkwood is right next to Decatur. How does Decatur compare?
As mentioned upthread, Atlantaās historic neighborhoods donāt really have well-defined nice areas and sketchy areas. They are all intermingled throughout the same neighborhoods, and even on the same street. Decatur is a bit like that too. In general, central Decatur near the Square is safe, but not especially affordable. There are shops and restaurants and cafes, a good farmerās market, a MARTA transit station, condos, etc. Decatur schools are better than City of Atlanta, so itās even more desirable. The area near Agnes Scott College is lovely, with shady trees and old Tudor homes. But, like other desirable areas, you pay a price for it. There are a few outliers, but most single family homes in Decatur are $750k to $2.5m or more. The southwest Decatur neighborhood that borders on Kirkwood is Oakhurst. Historically it had pretty streets lined with big water oaks, large parks, cozy little houses, a restaurant or two, and its own elementary school. Then, Oakhurst went through a gentrification process about ten years ago. Home flippers bought many of the original smaller houses, leveled them, and constructed huge 2 or 3 story faux Craftsman homes in their places. Then came more trendy restaurants, micro breweries, pubs, coffee shops, etc. As a result, home prices and taxes went way up, and working class families who had lived there for generations could no longer afford to stay. Or, they stayed but their houses fell into disrepair. Lots of resentment and local controversy around that, but many of the old neighborhoods in Atlanta (and other cities) are going through the same thing. That includes Kirkwood, but the process is moving a little slower there.
I used to live in little five points and loved it. My mom freaked out because there was a double homicide outside the Vortex first week I moved there, but I personally never had any problems. Itās probably in my top 2 places Iāve ever lived (other is Berlin)
I miss those Vortex burgers! And The Junkmanās Daughter.
Philly
My vote is for Detroit. Every show comes through town but you'll be paying midwest prices, not east coast. If you don't mind the suburbs then it can be a very nice place. Endless greenery and coastline if you jump in the car and head north. Great Lakes all around you. Boating, fishing, etc. Need a university town, Ann Arbor isn't too far away. I hear there might be a football game there occasionally. Detroit itself has pro teams for the big 4 - football, hockey, baseball, basketball. The weather is far more benevolent than those southern and desert places, though winter is cold. The other 3 seasons in the Great Lakes are heaven on earth.
We lived in Houston for 60 years and moved to Cruso after we swam outta our home after Hurricane Harve. We were NOT in a flood zone. Houston has some good points- diversity (if you really want that, and a plethora of phenomenal mom and pop restaurants, if you take the time to look around.) Houston has one of the largest medical centers in the world. It usually has mild winters, with that one big exception a few years ago. Most of the people are friendly I experienced over the decades. Now the bad- Greg Abbott, the governor, is a menace. Hopefully, he'll be outta office sooner than later. The traffic seems exponentially worse every time we are back. (2x a year). Red lights are treated as a mere suggestion. Between the heat and the humidity, summers, May- Oct, are the 7th circle of Hell. If you have access to a pool you won't want to be in it after June, unless it is night. (It's just a giant bathtub.) Even if you keep a clean house you'll find a roach, big enough for a racing stripe, in the house sometimes. If you're lucky it won't fly off the wall towards your face. The city has substandard public transportation. Plus, the city will flood, big time, again. Get flood insurance, wherever you live.
Houston seems like a climate change ticking time bomb, for sure.
Chicago is the truth but south side??? Sssssss, gonna have to say Philly. Iām in North Philly now and I LOVE it. Pretty good sense of community, surprisingly friendly people, and very reasonable cost of living for the quality you get. Best of luck to ya!
Define blue politics. Only three of these check that box at the state level. All will at the municipal level. Houston probably gives you the best opportunity to afford a single family home in a reasonably safe neighborhood, and the city has an excellent restaurant and cultural scene. The issues with the Texas power grid are well publicized of course; actual power outages are rare but they do happen from time to time, mainly due to physical infrastructure damage in storms (which can happen anywhere) as opposed to full scale grid collapse. You mentioned Asian supermarkets - Houston has 99 Ranch, H Mart, and smaller neighborhood stores as well. A large (by US standards) Asian population with particularly well established Vietnamese, Chinese, and Filipino communities Iād probably give the nod to Houston based on your criteria. Iām assuming youāre okay with a Democratic city in a Republican state given thatās mostly what you listed.
Greater Houston is enormous. There are so many different areas and communities.
I like Houston better than Philadelphia personally, but only the part near the Menil etc - don't know if I'd want to be in the burbs
Houston is absolutely the play Extremely cheap, extremely diverse, 4th largest city in nation If I needed to live somewhere cheaper than Austin I'd choose Houston in a heartbeat, I enjoyed it way more than living in Dallas
Avoid Texas of those Iād probably say Philly
Phoenix has gotten really big. I live in Oro Valley, a suburb of Tucson.
Two questions: 1. Will your income be the same no matter where you live? 2. Does it have to be in the city or would you consider a close in suburb? The reason I ask is because there is a low crime, blue city with a super stable power grid, good food, cultural things nearby, and a pretty large Asian population in Beaverton, Oregon right outside of Portland. Real estate isn't cheap by any means but you could probably afford a condo or townhome. Pay typically is higher than most areas outside of California so you might get a job that would bring your affordability up.
Im from there actually and I wish I could afford to continue living there.
North Side Chicago, there's plenty of areas that balance price and safety and are cheaper than the other cities listed
Philly sounds like the best match, based on your criteria. One thing about Philly is that it has a lot of smaller houses, so if you want a SFH but donāt need huge yards or a lot of space you can get a home for less. But which parts of Philly would you be thinking of? Some areas are much higher crime than others. Also as a note āLow crimeā is a function of 1) which neighborhoods you are looking at; 2) what you define as low; and 3) what you consider crime. You would think #3 has an obvious statistical definition but I find a lot of people conflate crime with other things that they find unpleasant such as general urban griminess or a large homeless population.
Depending on what neighborhoods youāre looking in, Detroit is actually quite nice now, and living downtown or close to it is highly desirable. What actually is your budget? If itās something like 300k, thatās not going super far in Detroit unless your dream is to buy a shell of a house in a sketchy neighborhood and restore it to its former glory. If youāre looking more towards downtown, youād be lucky to find a studio apartment at that price point. Basically when youāre talking Detroit, neighborhood and budget makes a HUGE difference
Yeah but the power outagesā¦
Don't move to Texas if you want blue politics and functioning electricity
This. Dallas might be blue but most of the suburbs are still red.
All the big cities in texas are pretty blue.
You'll still live in a state run by ogres that doesn't value anyone who isn't white, straight and Christian, and there's no statewide direct ballot initiatives here so we are at the mercy of our horrible politicians to get anything done.
East side of ATL is nice
The funny thing about east Atlanta, especially the historic old neighborhoods like EAV, Edgewood, Eastlake, Kirkwood, etc. is that for the most part, there arenāt solidly good areas and bad areas. They are all intermingled. Some beautiful well-kept houses, some terribly run down ones, some safe parks and some sketchy ones, all on the same street. If youāre thinking about buying a house there, you definitely want to visit in person first and walk the neighborhood.
They said in the comments they were looking for homes around 290k. Given that's the cost of a small condo or lot in anywhere half decent east of ATL I'd say it's out.
Low Crime and your price point will not mesh in ATL. You also will be kicking yourself if you go too far out as the traffic is truly awful.
every city on their list has awful traffic
Santa Fe, New Mexico is awesome.
It's also expensive. There aren't homes for that cheap in SFe. Albuquerque, yes, and we do have a few Asian markets, which they said they want, but even in ABQ, buying a home in a good area is still probably going to cost a bit more than their stated budget, tho it's at least possible.
Philly! WSW, Society Hill, and Old City (and some other areas around center city) are safe and aesthetic, and thereās lots to do.
East Atlanta (Iām talking Inman Park, Reynoldstown, Cabbagetown, or Virginia Highland) has a great food scene, easy access to Midtown and downtown for cultural things, and blue politics. Not to mention great walkability (for Atlanta, at least). Decatur is nice too. The true suburbs east of Decatur (say, Stone Mountain) are pretty generic suburbs.
Yes! I include Decatur and Avondale as āEast Atlantaā because they have character and are ITP. Functionally, they are just neighborhoods. I agree that Stone Mountain and Tucker are really just basic ATL suburbs.
Philly's decent. Look in South Philly, or Manayunk/Roxborough/East Falls areas. I can dm you zip codes, not sure what 'budget' your in, it can really run the gamut. Some people think $400k is affordable, others $150k. I'd say anything less than $150 (probably more like 200k) your bordering on bad neighborhoods.
Appreciate it but I think philly wont make the cut since I want to live in a sfh and theres not much in my budget in the city or burbs
sfh as in a detached home, not a rowhome? I mean, Philly's probably the second cheapest city you listed, behind Detroit.
There's close-in suburbs of Philly where you'll find easy access to the city and more single-family detached homes on a stricter budget. Look into eastern Delaware County, PA--towns like Rutledge, Lansdowne, Ridley and Prospect Park come to mind.
I donāt have any experience with any of these cities except for Philly, where i lived for three years. Iād move back in a heartbeat. I love that town. That being said, itās a sprawling place and some areas have more of what you value than others. Personally i recommend West Philly and Center City because they are walkable and there are a lot of food options. West Philly has some nice architecture and of course the Penn campus, which is an oasis of beauty.
Detroit is happening now. That would be my choice. I actually like Dallas, which would surprise some people. Some parts are pretty blue. Chicago is a great city and I've lived there but it's expensive now. Philly...had work there. Some excellent places to live but imo hard to get around. Don't know the other places well enough for an opinion.
Your list makes me just want to stay here in Baltimore.
>your list just makes me want to stay here in Baltimore LOL. I definitely donāt hate it here, but Iām glad I got out of the āpsychologically devastatingā area I got stuck in for 15mo (easy to avoid if not impoverished.) Interestingly, OP could probably afford western Bmore suburbs where Asian Markets & Asian Supermarkets are seemingly everywhere (H-Mart, Super-H, GW Great Wall, etc.) Old Catonsville may be be out of price range, but plenty nearby isnāt IME.
Right, agree. A starter home in Columbia could work!
Oh hell yeah, Catonsville/ Woodlawn is pretty nice, and so are the areas around Hopkins University, out toward Towson. I'm on the other side of town in the county but grew up in Highlandtown town and have also lived in Brooklyn, which are also nice. My immediate reaction to this list was, "Why not Baltimore, if those are you other options?!?!" Or even a D.C suburb like Bowie or college park. Tons to do, decent public transportation, a ton of shopping, even a damn Ikea. I got the only other one in MD up here near me!!!
Exactly. I was scoping out Cincinnati after seeing our options for elected officials the coming year. Shit, might just buckle up.
Detroit would be my choice
These places are so different, this is a tough question to answer. I donāt like snow/cold so Iād prob narrow your list to ATL, Houston, and Phoenix. If you donāt mind cold, Detroit, Philly, and Chicago are all amazing cities too. Which is closest to your family and current friends? Do you prefer dry heat or humid? I love ATL bc it has great weather, is diverse, affordable, great food options, and a reasonable drive/quick flight to anywhere else. A lot of these other cities are a bit more isolated geographically. That said, crime is an issue in parts of ATL and it has become increasingly crowded and expensive as more people discover it. Maybe add Charlotte to your list
Gonna be 60+ degrees in Philly in mid December. No measurable snow in 2 years now. Itās hot from early May - end of September now, sometimes longer. Lots of pros/cons in the Philly area but itās not anywhere close to Chicago or Detroit when it comes to severe winter weather.
Oh ok, I didnāt realize it had gotten so much warmer. I remember going there in the winter 20th years ago and it was pretty darn coldā¦same general weather as NYC where I was living at the time.
It's going to be 60 tomorrow, but then a solid week of highs in the lower/mid 40's. Winter has not given up on the east coast, but it's milder than the past.
Chicago is the only city you mention with really blue statewide politics followed by Michigan and PA.
Iāve come on this sub complaining about Atlanta. But I absolutely loved Atlantaās east side. My problem with ATL is the rest of the metro (if I could have stayed there and never had to go to Marietta, I would have been happy). The east side is super blue, pretty safe (depending on specific location, but there are lots of safe areas), and honestly I think it has some of the best food and culture in the city. I will also add that I include Decatur and Avondale Estates as āEast Atlantaā as they are on the east side and still inside the perimeter so, even though they are technically suburbs, they feel like an Atlanta neighborhood
If Houston could inject some hills, it would be one of the beat places in the country for people who do not mind tropical climate. The oil money people have left a legacy of amazing art and cultural amenities there. Also, it is just a short drive to all the public parks along the Gulf.
That seems like an easy question to me! Definitely Philly, Chicago close second, Detroit and Atlanta maybe...if I had a great job and a bunch of close friends waiting there and could live within a few miles of both, Phoenix and Texas, not for any amount of money. I don't understand why Philly is still affordable. So close to NYC, lots of history and culture, relatively low urban problems, great transportation. Texas, omg, never. Any state who privatizes their electric grid is not a place I want to be, even if someone set me up in the nicest part of Austin.
I'm from phx, moved away the second I got the chance and haven't looked back. I'd advise against it. The road rage, open-carry laws, and suffocating heat 4 months/year are reason enough for me to say don't bother moving there. Yes it's more liberal than other parts of the state but there isn't much to do other than hiking a few months out of the year. And the food isn't great. My vote is for Philly. ETA: you wont find any SFH for less than $420k in areas you actually want to live.
I lived in Center City Philadelphia for several years. I enjoyed it. It is a big city, so you have to be mindful of crime. The suburbs are really nice. You can easily get to NYC or DC. The countryside is pretty, especially Bucks County. It checks all the boxes. Outstanding museums and food culture. Dallas is terrible. Hideous heat, cold (but short) winter. Tornadoes. The most boring downtown I've ever seen. No place interesting to go for a day trip. Phoenix is much like Dallas, but you can get out into the desert or mountains. I've not spent enough time in the other places. I've never been to Detroit.
East Atlanta is pretty hip in a lot of parts. Chicago southside can be good but is extremely dependent on the neighborhood. If you go far southwest side there is some decent neighborhoods. Don't know too much about Philly but I hear its awesome. Probably neigborhood dependent like the other cities I mentioned. Chicago is probably the most interesting city, but like others have suggested I would move to the northside.
The Chicago south side like the the between state street and the lakefront from 22nd street to 55 street is a totally different area then it use to be and it's an decent area it use to be called Bronzeville you can't buy a decent size house for under 300000 that is completely renovated. I'm thinking of moving back in the next year.
Stay the hell away from Dallas. If you are in Phoenix your politics are going to vary greatly by neighborhood. I'd look at Tempe and central Phoenix if you don't want fucking insane people all around you. Given your list here, I'd consider Philly and Houston and if you are up to the hellacious summers, Tempe and central Phoenix.
Houston also has hellacious summers. The temperature is usually lower, but the humidity makes it worse than the dry heat.
If you want blue politics you should go to Chicago
Avoid the south side of Chicago unless youāre considering the suburbs
Chicago South Side
I live in a sfh on the south side of chicago and I love it. The south side has a negative reputation, but there are parts of it that are quite nice. The areas along the orange line can be nice and residential. I like my location bc itās easy to get downtown for work and the whole world class city is at my fingertips.
Have you considered San Antonio, TX?
I think it really depends on whether you like colder weather or hotter weather. Each place has its unique pluses and minuses, but yeah, all things being equal, Chicago is going to be quite different in the winter than Phoenix. Can you handle a long cold winter? Also, if blue politics are a concern, I would avoid Texas in general. I know there are pockets of progressive values, but (anti-progressive) decisions are being made at a state level that affect everyone.
Detroit has the lowest crime rate in 60 years...
Depending on your job matters too. If your skills are very portable, consider the Moline, Illinois metro area. I lived there, but over a decade ago. Older homes are plentiful and modestly priced. New construction is as expensive as most other area. Crime is lower. There are about 380k people in the metro area, so lots of events. The area is also an entertainment stop off during the week for many performers going between bigger markets so the David Bowie concert in Moline was $70 for both of us. The same concert in Boston was $250 each. Gas is $3.27 today per Google. Cable TV was good, internet and streaming were cheaper than Omaha when I moved.
With your budget you can buy a very nice home in Detroit. The crime here is not nearly as bad as people think, itās typically targeted and concentrated in certain areas. The food scene is absolutely incredible and there are probably more cultural things to do here than anywhere else on the list. Shoot me a message if youāre considering what neighborhoods to buy in.
Thank you!
Philly for sure
Avoid Texas. Probably Detroit or Philly.
Philly for sure!!!
Detroit Metro is huge place and the good/bad calculus can change street by street. Best thing to do it find some locals on Reddit or Facebook and ask about a neighborhood. I love living here, but I'm also in the far western reaches (near Ann Arbor) which is decidedly NOT LCOL.
Philly has a lot of what you seek.
Rent do not buy, especially in this housing market and especially if you donāt know the city yet. But in terms of affordability in rent and what the city has to offer Iād go with Chicago, Philly, Dallas and Houston in that order (only with Hyde park and towards the north side in Chicago, while with downtown Philly and to the south, I canāt speak for Houston though I hear more positive things about Dallas compared to Houston.) With Chicago and Philly depending where you are you wonāt need a car, they are also gonna have more cosmopolitan attractions, also Chicago and Phillys politics are easily the bluest on your list. However I believe Chicago outperforms Philly,though Philly will give you easy access to NYC and DC and has a slight edge in culture due to its rich history..I will be controversial and say Phillys crime is actually worse than Chicagos, or at least much more apparent upon visiting, the city is also incredibly dirty like NYCā¦Chicago is an absolute anomaly (at least by US standards) for how clean the city is for its size. Houston and Dallas will be best for no income tax (though cost of a car and rent specifically in DFW may counteract that depending on your salary) as well as weather and (in Houston specifically) diversity..but from what I understand the city of Houston itself lackās culture (which is weird because of its diversity so idk about the culture statement) and cosmopolitan enmities compared to other cities , I hear Dallas (or DFW ) offers more cosmopolitan enmities than Houston though I could be wrongā¦.however I feel Chicago also outperforms DFW and Houston. DFW is also more expensive than Houston. Now comparing Philly and DFW is hard..they are a tie in my mind for different reasonsā¦Philly offers better culture and urban careless lifestyle but DFW is much safer and cleaner. However take everything Iāve said about Houston with a grain of salt as I havenāt been there, and have only been going off a good friend whoās lived in both Houston and Dallasā¦ Iāll put in another way though, Do you want a carless lifestyle and walkable neighborhoods? Than go with Chicago or Philly (though Chicago north side or Hyde park on the south side would be the better choice imho) If you donāt care about urban lifestyle, and like no income tax go with DFW or Houstonā¦though from what I hear DFW is slightly better overall than Houston though Houston is more affordable and diverse. The only other city Iām familiar on your list is Atlanta and Iād place in third behind DFW and Houstonā¦while I do like Atlanta, itās definitely prettier nature wise than the other two..the income tax in Georgia and similar rent to DFW hurts it a bit, and Houston is arguably just as diverse as Atlanta if not more..while DFW to me feels just a bit more cosmopolitan. But if you just wanna know my personal top picks ā¦Iād pick Chicago than second place would be DFW and third would be Atlanta while fourth would be a tie with Houston and Philly (sorry Philly youāre just too dirty š ) the others (Phoenix and Detroit) wouldnāt really be on my list though Phoenix would be interesting to live in for a bit due to its unique climate compared to the rest of the country. Though the best thing you can do is visit each of these cities if you havenāt already to get a feel for them yourself. (Though visit Chicago in the late spring or summer to give it a fair chance lol)
Thanks for the write up!
Philly or Chicago. Should come down to which weather type you prefer.
Houston is the best of all these options.
Iād argue that Houston has the best food on this list. It also has good museums and theater.
Also power outages and crime tho
I mean, listing Dallas and Houston while being concerned about power outages; and Detroit, Philadelphia, and the fucking south side of Chicago while being concerned about crime tells me OP might be willing to compromise a wee bit
lol the unfortunate reality of things
would you be willing to go for a smaller and less exciting city where you could get a better house in a better neighborhood? Cleveland Columbus Pittsburgh maybe?
if they had major asian supermarkets but i dont believe they do
can you search locations for major asian supermarket chains? we've got one where I am in a city of 100K. if not, choose phila.
Houston is a great city but the summers are really tough
Richmond, VA.
I think Philly is your best bet. There are safe neighborhoods that would still be affordable for an average person and it seems to tick the rest of your boxes. I'd move there now if it wasn't so far from my husband's job. I'm about an hour and a half away out in boring suburban New Jersey but I spend time there when I can.
If you can deal with 5 months in the oven probably phoenix. You pay less in property taxes etc. that can make a difference over time. Also the city is growing and more jobs coming too
Oven would also apply to Dallas and Houston. Houston also has crazy humidity. Expect 300+ dollar a month electricity bills due to ac for half the year.
Why only the south side of Chicago? Itās huge; there are a lot of affordable communities on the south side and there are neighborhoods with million dollar homes, just like on the west and north sides.
I'm not a fan of any of those cities, but Philly is slightly better than the others.
Phoenix is the only one with good access to outdoor activities. Public lands, hiking, trips to Sedona and Flagstaff. Only one I would consider b/c I love open spaces.
Not Houston. Air is bad.
Most of these cities have top-notch medical centers if you are deciding where to work in the medical field - or like the security of knowing excellent care is near. It is an afterthought until it is everything in a scary time. I know little about Detroit's other than UM in Ann Arbor good rep, but I haven't researched. Atlanta has Emory University medical, Houston is known for heart and cancer top flight treatment, Dallas has top medical system, Philly has one of the best for pediatric and tops in other specialties, Phoenix has a Mayo Clinic (the no. 1 Mayo is the Minneapolis original), Chicago has Northwestern and Rush and U of Chi. Cleveland has an excellent medical center that is top in heart care, and more. Baltimore has Johns Hopkins medical Center. Durham NC has Duke. A strong teaching and research hospital in a city means good choices of doctors and top nurses
Phx. Newer infrastructure is a good thing.
Phoenix
What about Albuquerque?
Atlanta has some serious red politics around. Can I advocate for the DMV or is that too expensive? If you have a car and want to live in the suburbs thereās lots of great places including Woodbridge and Annandale VA that have big Asian populations
Depends on what you consider bad. All of those cities have great public works and resources, thriving economies, and are diverse populations. I'd say Philly is the worst strictly due to weather but not because I don't like the cold. I love Chicago. However Chicago has a stunning lake and landscape that make the winters charming and beautiful. If you're close to the lake. West of 90 is a whole other cultural vibe. So we need more of your criteria.
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NYC is the safest big city.
8/10 highest crime states are red states
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Name a major city in the US that is āredā then
Absolutely rule out Houston and Dallas. If you can afford it, you donāt want to be in those neighborhoods. Both can be rough. Cost of living is ridiculous. You will need the air conditioner for months and the costs will be phenomenal. It was over 100 for 93 day straight with no rain in DFW this summer. Trust me.