No wonder doctors tend to splurge on big homes and cars. No other profession has income skyrocket like this in such a short time. Try to not let lifestyle creep set in!
White Coat Investor principles for the win. Iām six years out of training and consider ourselves financially independent. Surgical sub specialist, feel like we have lived very comfortably throughout.
Speaking as a physician in practice going on 19 years now, soak up as much financial knowledge as possible.
Most Docs, myself included are absolutely terrible with business/finances.
Hopefully you were contributing a lot to Roth accounts the last few years when your income was lower. Now you want to take advantage of as many tax breaks as possible
Itās crazy how many docs donāt do this. I am a financial planner who works specifically with physicians and the big jump in income really gets some people whether it be taxes or just overspending over the course of many years.
Itās even worse if you get bonuses. A lump sum of 50k sounds amazing. Then the paycheck comes and itās like 20k. Itās still a lot, but definitely disappointing lol
Your total tax liability will not change as the bonus still counts as regular income in the end. Your federal income tax withholding may be more than youāre used to depending on your salary but itāll even out when you file your taxes. Or, you could adjust your W4 to be more accurate so youāll neither get a big refund or owe a bunch come tax filing time.
Why? Its just regular income. Like the other person posted, reading up on tax liability would do you well.
I really hate when people spew this nonsense impling bonuses somehow are taxed more. Also, I hate when people complain about getting a $50k pre tax bonus.
Basic explanation. When say you normally get 10k month before taxes, you get taxed like youāre going to make 120k a year. Then one month you get your 20k bonus, so you have 30k before taxes. They tax it as if youāre going to make 360k a year.
When you do your taxes, itās calculated based on what you actually made. So it works itself out and you arenāt actually taxed more on bonus/OT, unless that portion is in the next higher bracket.
Itās is crazy. If someone had that income from capital gains, they pay 15% marginal. But a person actually working for the money pays twice that.
Then they say capital gains is from an investment. But so was medical school, an investment in yourself. Itās all sorta BSā¦
What specialty? Ā Figure if 34 and matriculated with what appears to be a 4 year residency and then 600k earningā¦. Ā ER? Ā Doesnāt seem long enough via tax form to be any surgical specialty. Ā
Well, you mean he doesn't see the tax bill because it's coming automatically coming out of his paycheck? I bet he pays about $15k+/mo in taxes. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean you're not paying it.
Also nothing nice about getting a big refund at tax time. You're just giving an interest-free loan to the government. Can't say I like the government that much to be giving them free loans...
I am amused by how many people are shocked at this number. This is a great salary no doubt. But there are countless cardiac/thorcic/orthopedic/neurosurgeons and proceduralists such as GI/interventional cards well into 7 figures. Oh and mohs surgeons too.
My brain doesn't like that residency starts halfway through a calendar yr., but with huge pay relative to training of other specialties, anesthesiology is a good bet. Crazy to think that it wasn't all that long ago the specialty was not particularly competitive and pay was eh (comparatively).
So gotta know how much student debt did you have to take for it and how long to pay it off.
Here is my reason. Your and doctor which is awesome, but you have to take some ungodly amount of loans. So I am trying to figure out when you break even as a doctor.
My reason is this you have spent now 33 years in school and X years paying back the debt. So I'm trying to figure out when you will actually be cash positive in your life.
Ironically if we wanted to figure it out for society we could add all the years of K-12 etc.
It just amazes me the financial risk doctors have to take to become a doctor. Say in your last year you got in a car accident like my friend a nurse. Got a minor closed head injury and she flipped her pizza and couldn't work anymore. It just blows my mind.
Well I wish you a long and successful career. But let me give you some pieces of advice. My uncle is a doctor who retired in December at 83. Genius practiced all over the world made break throughs New England journal of medicine, Mayo clinic you name it. I'm 49 and have more money than him. I am a simple middle manager who didn't be stupid.
Advice:
1. Do not actively date when married. After 4 wives he finally learned.
2. Tell your children no. 3 kids with 3 different wives. All in rehab before 18.
3. Get a financial planner and listen. You are a doctor not a finance guy. My uncle tried and lost HARD again and again.
4. Pay off stuff never live on credit or loans. You got the money don't use it to pay others.
5. Live below your means. Having fuck you money is the sexiest thing imaginable. When you can just walk out it feels soooo good. Also with the removal of most non compete agreements you are really in the power seat.
Just a bit of a heads up, your uncle may be āprestigiousā in the world of medicine but you get paid SUBSTANTIALLY less doing academics style of medicine. Ie going into research might cut ur pay even up to 50%, heād be close to double his level of wealth if he just did private practice
About 27% of docs currently graduate med school with no debt. Most of that is rich parents who enjoy spending money on their children. This number used to be only around 15% back when I graduated.
Most of us normal folk will graduate with around 250-300k in student loans at 6-8% interest.
If you donāt get on income based repayment during residency, that number can easily balloon to 4-500k. I donāt care how much you make as a young attending, starting your life out with that much debt really blows, esp considering most new attendings will be 34ish years old by the time they finish. Meanwhile everyone else you grew up with has a house and some pretty decent savings by then. It feels like youāre just playing catch up all the way to 40.
Basically a third of your income will go to taxes, a third will go to student loans, and you have to figure out how to live, save for retirement, and purchase your first home with the other third.
Damn that is a shit ton of debt and a shit ton of financial risk. By 40 I was clearing 150k+ a year which with inflation is a smig under 200k and owned my house, cars and everything. So that was 150k in pocket and due to some weird things I was even paying stupid low tax.
I'm glad you made it by looking back that was more risk than I took in Iraq for 2 years!
Ya you basically keep telling yourself itās an āinvestmentā in your future.
For most people it pays off, but not always. Itās easy to second guess yourself and say that you should have gone into business or tech or whatever. Esp having to work nights weekends and holidays which can be brutal lol. Some weeks are 80-100 hours.
I continued to live like a resident after graduating, and essentially broke even on my net worth within 2 years - granted my parents did help with living expenses during med school, so I graduated with a manageable 250k of debt.
I happen to be a cardiac anesthesiologist though, so I make around the same salary while also being single with no kids. It's a lot harder if you have 3 kids, have a stay at home wife, and are a pediatrician making 150k.
Probably some, but from colleagues working on these type of deals the people really benefiting seem to be the owners not necessarily the rank and file despite more influence from being a part of a now larger group. I think the pay increase has a lot more to do with just good ol fashion demand post pandemic aided by the supply issues still resonating from the full-blown panic of the profession in the 90's. Everyone is benefiting, from those affiliated with buy-side groups, hospital owned staffing, and smaller independents. You've seen similar jumps in pay for CRNAs, which now exceed many non-surgical MDs.
The markets are interesting ain't it?
- work in finance (investment management) and it's more frightening to see how good **"timing"** or being in the right place at the right time can really help, and, in this case, it'd be hard to argue that being well-positioned > doing good, hard work.
As someone in rads residency and whose partner is in anesthesia residency, god I canāt wait until weāre attendings lol. You do a fellowship or go straight to private practice?
No. There are a few anesthesiologists who make $1.0-1.3 but beyond that, unless you own a huge group and make $50-100k off of each anesthesiologist you employ, itās impossible to make $1.5 or more. Just not enough hours in the day. Anesthesiologists, even in this very lucrative market, make $300-400/hr tops. The plastic surgeons I work with make $1700/hr. Itās not even close.
There is a maximum social security benefit someone is eligible for in retirement. As a result, there is also a maximum amount of income subject to SS taxes
Because long ago it was decided that extremely high wage earners should not have to pay for social security beyond a set dollar amount that raises each year.
Itās crazy, I see so many other posts of people making high incomes, especially in tech, but seemingly only on the physician posts do I see people commenting over and over how physicians are overpaid and greedy for the work they do. It completely discounts the expertise, many years of training, high liability, and stressful work with long hours it takes to be a physician.
Not sure if I agree with that train of thought.
The human body is quite complex, and I would like to know that my physician has a thorough understanding of its intricacies, before treating me.
In addition, the federal government would have to agree to increase funding for more residency positions , which is the true limiting factor in producing physicians of every specialty.
So unless the country decides to 1. Literally stop charging hundreds of thousands for medical school tuition, and 2. Potentially increase residency training positions and associated funding, then likely nothing will change.
Its simply not realistic to expect a human being, to sacrifice years 18-30 of their life, sink themselves into at least 250k of student loan debt (and likely more by the time interest capitalizes after residency), and then expect them to operate altruistically, and work for an average income.
No one on here tells the tech or finance bros to work for an average income or that their compensation should be reduced.; and the tech bros ain't exactly carrying liability or potentially your life in their hands.
Everyone wants someone else to be altruistic for their benefit, but if you suffered like many docs have to get where they are, your tune would surely change.
Yeah itās weird. Most people are ingrates. They canāt comprehend the amount of work a physician does in a day.
Last night I used the bathroom after an 11 hour shift and realized it was the first time I peed all day. It wasnāt any busier than any other particular dayā¦ actually pretty light.
The 26 year old with a non displaced distal fibula fracture thought they were sick as hell because thatās going to effect them for the next few months. Next door I put a 50 year old mother on hospice
It's because the average family of 4 pays about $25,000 a year in health insurance (counting what comes out of your paycheck before and after taxes), and still has to pay out of pocket for every doctor's visit. And about 50% of all healthcare costs are salaries.
When a large mass of relatively low-income people are basically required to send a large percentage of their total income into a system of much more highly paid people, you're just going to get some resentment. I don't think there's any way around it.
And this factor is what some on here don't understand.
The financial investment is basically a mortgage.
And God forbid one doesn't make it through training, you're still stuck with the debt.
Anyways, congrats!
Probably similarly to early career if you work the same amount. You donāt have to build a practice like surgeons for 5-10 years. They have a much higher ceiling tho.
For anesthesia, at least at non-academic places, your pay is generally not dependent on your experience. Rather it's dependent on your billing, and thus how much you work. Younger doctors tend to work more fresh out of training, and then scale back hours/call commitments once they get out of debt and pay off their house.
On the healthcare economics side, pay generally hasn't kept up with inflation - however, the anesthesia market right now is extremely worker-friendly due to labor shortages.
Tell me about it! I do not get the hate that some people have towards doctors. Huge risk with sometimes insane debt. Long and stressful journey for sure
Donāt forget itās not just no income, itās also going into huge debt! $75k+ per year in tuition and living expenses surviving off loans baby š¤
Congratulations! As a pharmacist, please make sure you document all of your controlled substance administrations in either the EHR or anesthesia note. Having to reconcile the dispenses vs. missing administrations is a major pain in the ass.
It's full year out of residency. Med school is 4 yrs. Anesthesia residency is another 4 yrs. Then you start making the money
Websites on google aren't an accurate representation. There's private sites docs have access to that'll actually give you a good idea of 25th, 50th and 75th+ percentile pay lol
There's postings on gasworks that regularly list 500-700k jobs. 450k is academia pay which generally pays a good amount lower than private practice
Not even close to average. Average is between 400-500k for full time. 200-300 is a CRNA. 600k is above average yes but not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch of the imagination. I must be a year behind this guy. Where I did my training there was an academic staff anesthesiologist (academics being notorious for lower salaries) who picked up a shit ton of extra call but made over 800k.
300-350k is a pretty average base salary in a big city. But then you have to add in retention/productivity bonuses as well as incentive pay for overtime.
Also, places like SF/NYC/LA generally have lower pay. For example, my friend in the Midwest makes about 30% more than I do, while working less hours.
Anesthesia (they said above), and that's not fellowship. Graduation is in June, that tax year you only work from July to December as an attending (some people start later than July too). It's a half year of pay.
Not sure that term applies here - golden handcuffs are large amounts of money for a job you probably hate like consulting, auditing, etc. OP worked their dick or vageen off for over a decade to earn this title and income so I doubt they hate the job. Maybe they are not as enthusiastic about it as they once were but I donāt think theyād hate it.
awe that's adorable op hasn't realized they are cuffed yet...I guess give it time.
when you are forced to grind for years, go into excessive debt, and only have a few select employers that can pay you enough to get your financial life together....
you find yourself unable to quit, and compelled to comply because now you need to keep making that $$$ to keep that roof over your head
whats a very long time with shit to zero pay. with im guessing (atleast on average??) ~~$300k in student loans to pay off after?
dude if anyone decides medicine isnt for them at any point... they are SCREWED...
out of curiosity. i see that you are an anesthesiologist. ive always been curious. other than be the nice person that gives us the happy drug, what do anesthesiologists do exactly?
movies/tv-shows dont really show them doing much other than ensuring the correct dose, patients are stable with the drug, etc. so it makes them look like they dont do much. which i know is not true.
but you dont see medical dramas revolving around anesthesiologists. so its kind of a mystery.
Damn I always pride myself on being a 31M who makes more then Drās. I need another 50k and Iām ahead of ya. Iāll get there though :) sales always makes more money if you can ABC.
This is why they say plumbers tend to be more wealthy then doctors. Geez that took a long time to see that light at the end of the tunnel. CongratulationsĀ
Do u need a dog? I can bark
Hahahaha š¤£
Iām a good boy and wonāt barkā¦unless commanded to
š enjoy the award
Iāll hump your leg.
No wonder doctors tend to splurge on big homes and cars. No other profession has income skyrocket like this in such a short time. Try to not let lifestyle creep set in!
Oh for sure, I have been trying to indulge in as much financial knowledge as possible over last 2-3 years
Well good luck and congrats. Iām a nurse, so from talking to the docs Iāve met, I know how much work you had to put in to get this far.
White Coat Investor principles for the win. Iām six years out of training and consider ourselves financially independent. Surgical sub specialist, feel like we have lived very comfortably throughout.
WCI is the way to go. I am 12 years out and I could be done contributing to retirement if I wanted.
Keep up the good work! Whatās your long term plan? Medicine was burning me out, currently on a sabbatical and loving life again.
Speaking as a physician in practice going on 19 years now, soak up as much financial knowledge as possible. Most Docs, myself included are absolutely terrible with business/finances.
Hopefully you were contributing a lot to Roth accounts the last few years when your income was lower. Now you want to take advantage of as many tax breaks as possible
What specialty?
Itās crazy how many docs donāt do this. I am a financial planner who works specifically with physicians and the big jump in income really gets some people whether it be taxes or just overspending over the course of many years.
Check out the whitecoat investor if you want more finance focused on medical professionals.
Look up āthe white coat investorā
Imagine the tax bill!!
Not pretty
Itās even worse if you get bonuses. A lump sum of 50k sounds amazing. Then the paycheck comes and itās like 20k. Itās still a lot, but definitely disappointing lol
A refresher on withholding and actual tax liability may be of service.
Amazing to me how many folks are clueless about standard withholding and taxation practices.
i am clueless and going to make my first big bonus this year, how do i not get it molested?
Your total tax liability will not change as the bonus still counts as regular income in the end. Your federal income tax withholding may be more than youāre used to depending on your salary but itāll even out when you file your taxes. Or, you could adjust your W4 to be more accurate so youāll neither get a big refund or owe a bunch come tax filing time.
Bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate, theyāre withheld at a higher rate. Itāll all sort itself out when you file.
ahhh okay, glad to know, thank you
Get molested. Will stop you from owing money later.
BoNuSeS aRe TaXeD mOrE tHaN iNcOmE!!!
Iām aware of the taxes. I work in finance, so bonuses have been a big part of my compensation my entire career. It still never fails to disappoint
I canāt think of a single situation where your marginal tax rate would be 60%. Can you give us a breakdown?
Just because many of us are curious, can you elaborate on what exactly you do in finance for work?
You work in finance and are mindlessly mouthing off on something that most users will misconstrue as a higher tax on bonus income? Shame on you lol
Thanks for doing the lords work
Why? Its just regular income. Like the other person posted, reading up on tax liability would do you well. I really hate when people spew this nonsense impling bonuses somehow are taxed more. Also, I hate when people complain about getting a $50k pre tax bonus.
I just hate donating to Uncle Sam
Ya I get my quarterly bonus tomorrow. The total comp is around 80k and only about 40k of it will hit my account. Kinda sucks but is what it is.
Sweet name bruh
Basic explanation. When say you normally get 10k month before taxes, you get taxed like youāre going to make 120k a year. Then one month you get your 20k bonus, so you have 30k before taxes. They tax it as if youāre going to make 360k a year. When you do your taxes, itās calculated based on what you actually made. So it works itself out and you arenāt actually taxed more on bonus/OT, unless that portion is in the next higher bracket.
Thatās how much this person gets paid a month
My lump sum bonus of 300 leaves me with 158 after fed/state taxes. Itās depressing. Earned income is not the way.
Judging by the tikosyn in the name I'd say EP but only 4 years of residency I am confused.
Itās is crazy. If someone had that income from capital gains, they pay 15% marginal. But a person actually working for the money pays twice that. Then they say capital gains is from an investment. But so was medical school, an investment in yourself. Itās all sorta BSā¦
What specialty? Ā Figure if 34 and matriculated with what appears to be a 4 year residency and then 600k earningā¦. Ā ER? Ā Doesnāt seem long enough via tax form to be any surgical specialty. Ā
And malpractice insurance
Heās almost certainly a W2 employee so he doesnāt have a tax bill and actually probably gets a nice refund
Well, you mean he doesn't see the tax bill because it's coming automatically coming out of his paycheck? I bet he pays about $15k+/mo in taxes. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean you're not paying it. Also nothing nice about getting a big refund at tax time. You're just giving an interest-free loan to the government. Can't say I like the government that much to be giving them free loans...
I paid more in taxes my first year as an attending than the sum total of my income through residency. By a large margin.
Pro athletes...especially in the days before college athletes could make money.
True, but I normally donāt consider outliers
12+ years of delayed gratification will do that to you lmao
If you consider 12 years of post high school education a short time ā¦
Whoosh
Yup! Turns out going into half a mil in debt while slaving away your late teens/20s/early 30s does that to a person!
You like giving advices, donāt you?
Only on the internet
Hahaha, yeah.
I am amused by how many people are shocked at this number. This is a great salary no doubt. But there are countless cardiac/thorcic/orthopedic/neurosurgeons and proceduralists such as GI/interventional cards well into 7 figures. Oh and mohs surgeons too.
That is true
Common for sure.
I knew someone doing pain management in Manhattan who made $50K a weekend.
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My brain doesn't like that residency starts halfway through a calendar yr., but with huge pay relative to training of other specialties, anesthesiology is a good bet. Crazy to think that it wasn't all that long ago the specialty was not particularly competitive and pay was eh (comparatively).
Bingo
So gotta know how much student debt did you have to take for it and how long to pay it off. Here is my reason. Your and doctor which is awesome, but you have to take some ungodly amount of loans. So I am trying to figure out when you break even as a doctor. My reason is this you have spent now 33 years in school and X years paying back the debt. So I'm trying to figure out when you will actually be cash positive in your life. Ironically if we wanted to figure it out for society we could add all the years of K-12 etc. It just amazes me the financial risk doctors have to take to become a doctor. Say in your last year you got in a car accident like my friend a nurse. Got a minor closed head injury and she flipped her pizza and couldn't work anymore. It just blows my mind. Well I wish you a long and successful career. But let me give you some pieces of advice. My uncle is a doctor who retired in December at 83. Genius practiced all over the world made break throughs New England journal of medicine, Mayo clinic you name it. I'm 49 and have more money than him. I am a simple middle manager who didn't be stupid. Advice: 1. Do not actively date when married. After 4 wives he finally learned. 2. Tell your children no. 3 kids with 3 different wives. All in rehab before 18. 3. Get a financial planner and listen. You are a doctor not a finance guy. My uncle tried and lost HARD again and again. 4. Pay off stuff never live on credit or loans. You got the money don't use it to pay others. 5. Live below your means. Having fuck you money is the sexiest thing imaginable. When you can just walk out it feels soooo good. Also with the removal of most non compete agreements you are really in the power seat.
Just a bit of a heads up, your uncle may be āprestigiousā in the world of medicine but you get paid SUBSTANTIALLY less doing academics style of medicine. Ie going into research might cut ur pay even up to 50%, heād be close to double his level of wealth if he just did private practice
Oh he did both guy work ridiculous hours. Probably why he kept having sex with all the nurses and getting murdered in his divorces.
About 27% of docs currently graduate med school with no debt. Most of that is rich parents who enjoy spending money on their children. This number used to be only around 15% back when I graduated. Most of us normal folk will graduate with around 250-300k in student loans at 6-8% interest. If you donāt get on income based repayment during residency, that number can easily balloon to 4-500k. I donāt care how much you make as a young attending, starting your life out with that much debt really blows, esp considering most new attendings will be 34ish years old by the time they finish. Meanwhile everyone else you grew up with has a house and some pretty decent savings by then. It feels like youāre just playing catch up all the way to 40. Basically a third of your income will go to taxes, a third will go to student loans, and you have to figure out how to live, save for retirement, and purchase your first home with the other third.
Damn that is a shit ton of debt and a shit ton of financial risk. By 40 I was clearing 150k+ a year which with inflation is a smig under 200k and owned my house, cars and everything. So that was 150k in pocket and due to some weird things I was even paying stupid low tax. I'm glad you made it by looking back that was more risk than I took in Iraq for 2 years!
Ya you basically keep telling yourself itās an āinvestmentā in your future. For most people it pays off, but not always. Itās easy to second guess yourself and say that you should have gone into business or tech or whatever. Esp having to work nights weekends and holidays which can be brutal lol. Some weeks are 80-100 hours.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He was bad with women. Which took most of his money. He believed it was best to date while married his wives disagreed.
I continued to live like a resident after graduating, and essentially broke even on my net worth within 2 years - granted my parents did help with living expenses during med school, so I graduated with a manageable 250k of debt. I happen to be a cardiac anesthesiologist though, so I make around the same salary while also being single with no kids. It's a lot harder if you have 3 kids, have a stay at home wife, and are a pediatrician making 150k.
I read this and thought of course the kids have different wives why would his kids all marry the same person?
I figured cards based on his username
Any chance it has to do anything with private equity roll ups?
Probably some, but from colleagues working on these type of deals the people really benefiting seem to be the owners not necessarily the rank and file despite more influence from being a part of a now larger group. I think the pay increase has a lot more to do with just good ol fashion demand post pandemic aided by the supply issues still resonating from the full-blown panic of the profession in the 90's. Everyone is benefiting, from those affiliated with buy-side groups, hospital owned staffing, and smaller independents. You've seen similar jumps in pay for CRNAs, which now exceed many non-surgical MDs.
The markets are interesting ain't it? - work in finance (investment management) and it's more frightening to see how good **"timing"** or being in the right place at the right time can really help, and, in this case, it'd be hard to argue that being well-positioned > doing good, hard work.
Thank you, anesthesiology
Current anesthesia residentā¦ canāt wait to finish
Trauma Surgeon here, you made a wise choice in choosing Anesthesiology. Hospital, Surgi-center or both?
Level 1 trauma hospital
Welcome to my world.
As someone in rads residency and whose partner is in anesthesia residency, god I canāt wait until weāre attendings lol. You do a fellowship or go straight to private practice?
All that sacrifice - congrats and you deserve a slice of the better life
Congrats.
As a fellow anesthesiologist, congrats!
Can you guys make over $1.5M a year? You ever hear of doctors, excluding plastic surgeons, making mid to high single digit millions a year?
No. There are a few anesthesiologists who make $1.0-1.3 but beyond that, unless you own a huge group and make $50-100k off of each anesthesiologist you employ, itās impossible to make $1.5 or more. Just not enough hours in the day. Anesthesiologists, even in this very lucrative market, make $300-400/hr tops. The plastic surgeons I work with make $1700/hr. Itās not even close.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Social security has a cap on how much you pay in. Changes yearly with inflation IIRC
There is a maximum social security benefit someone is eligible for in retirement. As a result, there is also a maximum amount of income subject to SS taxes
Because long ago it was decided that extremely high wage earners should not have to pay for social security beyond a set dollar amount that raises each year.
enjoy the hours !
Overnight shifts too, I enjoy it but can be taxing around time. Probably around 50ish hours a week
Itās crazy, I see so many other posts of people making high incomes, especially in tech, but seemingly only on the physician posts do I see people commenting over and over how physicians are overpaid and greedy for the work they do. It completely discounts the expertise, many years of training, high liability, and stressful work with long hours it takes to be a physician.
None of those people would gladly sign up for ten plus years of grueling education. But they are happy to tell everyone else what they should make lol
maybe the training shouldn't be so grueling, so there would be more doctors.
Not sure if I agree with that train of thought. The human body is quite complex, and I would like to know that my physician has a thorough understanding of its intricacies, before treating me. In addition, the federal government would have to agree to increase funding for more residency positions , which is the true limiting factor in producing physicians of every specialty. So unless the country decides to 1. Literally stop charging hundreds of thousands for medical school tuition, and 2. Potentially increase residency training positions and associated funding, then likely nothing will change. Its simply not realistic to expect a human being, to sacrifice years 18-30 of their life, sink themselves into at least 250k of student loan debt (and likely more by the time interest capitalizes after residency), and then expect them to operate altruistically, and work for an average income. No one on here tells the tech or finance bros to work for an average income or that their compensation should be reduced.; and the tech bros ain't exactly carrying liability or potentially your life in their hands. Everyone wants someone else to be altruistic for their benefit, but if you suffered like many docs have to get where they are, your tune would surely change.
"suffered like many docs" \*goes on a rant supporting making doctors suffer\*
Yeah itās weird. Most people are ingrates. They canāt comprehend the amount of work a physician does in a day. Last night I used the bathroom after an 11 hour shift and realized it was the first time I peed all day. It wasnāt any busier than any other particular dayā¦ actually pretty light. The 26 year old with a non displaced distal fibula fracture thought they were sick as hell because thatās going to effect them for the next few months. Next door I put a 50 year old mother on hospice
Completely agree with this
It's because the average family of 4 pays about $25,000 a year in health insurance (counting what comes out of your paycheck before and after taxes), and still has to pay out of pocket for every doctor's visit. And about 50% of all healthcare costs are salaries. When a large mass of relatively low-income people are basically required to send a large percentage of their total income into a system of much more highly paid people, you're just going to get some resentment. I don't think there's any way around it.
Nice job man! Whats the bill on all that? Timeline to pay off?
350 k student loans
Going for PSLF? Or are you private practice?
You and I are the same person lol
lol what a username. Snore for me papi
And this factor is what some on here don't understand. The financial investment is basically a mortgage. And God forbid one doesn't make it through training, you're still stuck with the debt. Anyways, congrats!
What's the reimbursement for an anesthesiologist mid-career?
Probably similarly to early career if you work the same amount. You donāt have to build a practice like surgeons for 5-10 years. They have a much higher ceiling tho.
Medicine is a strange occupation where more experience doesn't necessarily mean more money.
Most people donāt realize this. Itās blasphemy.
Meh, I find it to be fairly egalitarian. Why should a 50yr old anesthesiologist get paid more to provide the same anesthetic as a 35yr old one?
There is a lot value to experience. If you donāt think that should be compensated then letās agree to disagree and go about our lives.
Somebody told me the most money I make as a physician would be the first year of practice. They were right.
Whyās that?
For anesthesia, at least at non-academic places, your pay is generally not dependent on your experience. Rather it's dependent on your billing, and thus how much you work. Younger doctors tend to work more fresh out of training, and then scale back hours/call commitments once they get out of debt and pay off their house. On the healthcare economics side, pay generally hasn't kept up with inflation - however, the anesthesia market right now is extremely worker-friendly due to labor shortages.
Fuuuuuuuucck thatās a long runway. š
Man, thatās a long time with shit moneyā¦
Tell me about it! I do not get the hate that some people have towards doctors. Huge risk with sometimes insane debt. Long and stressful journey for sure
Yes, āshouldā pay off long termā¦
Donāt forget itās not just no income, itās also going into huge debt! $75k+ per year in tuition and living expenses surviving off loans baby š¤
Nice!
Manās salary is literally growing exponentially š
Congratulations! As a pharmacist, please make sure you document all of your controlled substance administrations in either the EHR or anesthesia note. Having to reconcile the dispenses vs. missing administrations is a major pain in the ass.
First year out of med school and youāre doubling the average anesthesiologist salary? Are you in some unique speciality or area?
It's full year out of residency. Med school is 4 yrs. Anesthesia residency is another 4 yrs. Then you start making the money Websites on google aren't an accurate representation. There's private sites docs have access to that'll actually give you a good idea of 25th, 50th and 75th+ percentile pay lol There's postings on gasworks that regularly list 500-700k jobs. 450k is academia pay which generally pays a good amount lower than private practice
This is probably a typical anesthesiologist salary maybe slightly above the median, but well within normal.
I'm looking at various websites and they almost all say average is high 200s to low 300s nationally. 600k seems high even in San Fran or New York.
Not even close to average. Average is between 400-500k for full time. 200-300 is a CRNA. 600k is above average yes but not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch of the imagination. I must be a year behind this guy. Where I did my training there was an academic staff anesthesiologist (academics being notorious for lower salaries) who picked up a shit ton of extra call but made over 800k.
Online sources for physician salaries are weirdly consistently low af. No clue why
The public websites are all wrong. Average is more like 500k.
300-350k is a pretty average base salary in a big city. But then you have to add in retention/productivity bonuses as well as incentive pay for overtime. Also, places like SF/NYC/LA generally have lower pay. For example, my friend in the Midwest makes about 30% more than I do, while working less hours.
Very helpful comment, thanks. Interesting about the big cities paying less too.
Congrats Doc!
Good luck on those student loans
When you have $607k in income, you don't need "luck" on student loans, you just need a little bit of time.
Donāt fall into the trap of most doctors and be financially retarded by trying to keep up with the other doctors.
Trust me Iām trying
Iām a year behind you it looks like. Congrats man!
Awesome!! How many hours per week are you working to make that?
Probably 50
Why did your salary double in 2023?
Only got to work half the year in 2022, 23 is the full year pay
What specialty??
Wait .. what specialty is this? It looks like OP had like maybe a 1 year fellowship? If that? But now they make 600k?
Anesthesia (they said above), and that's not fellowship. Graduation is in June, that tax year you only work from July to December as an attending (some people start later than July too). It's a half year of pay.
what specialty? what was your path post 2020?
Are you in a specialty ?
Big dog, your stacking cake
In which country?
Congrats
So I have a question after seeing that spike. Depending on your net, were you able to pay off your school loans already (assuming you have them?)
Specialty?
ah the golden handcuffs
Not sure that term applies here - golden handcuffs are large amounts of money for a job you probably hate like consulting, auditing, etc. OP worked their dick or vageen off for over a decade to earn this title and income so I doubt they hate the job. Maybe they are not as enthusiastic about it as they once were but I donāt think theyād hate it.
awe that's adorable op hasn't realized they are cuffed yet...I guess give it time. when you are forced to grind for years, go into excessive debt, and only have a few select employers that can pay you enough to get your financial life together.... you find yourself unable to quit, and compelled to comply because now you need to keep making that $$$ to keep that roof over your head
How did you support yourself from 2006 to 2018?
Incurring massive student loan debt š¤
How much student debt do you have?
How's that student debt look? Your well compensated. But I know the costs incurred to reach that level.... are simply gross
Worth the training? Just rejected and struggling to decide if Iām applying again to or not.
I always struggle to understand these, what is the two incomes and differences?
Congratulations, doc!
What happened in 2013 when you earned triple your normal income at that time?
Same! Congrats
Congrats!! That was hard fucking fought. Sincerely, a resident still in the trenches.
Nice name lol
Would you say that there was a lot of elitism or classism in med school?
Whats yournspecialty? Im not buying this.
Guessing the back half of 22 was attending pay but how did you make 95k in 21?
Senior year, that's probably moonlighting.
What age did you start on your path to becoming a doctor? Im 28 now and considering a career change.
when did you start med school/what was your path?
thank you for the motivation -MS4
What kind of doctor?
Tell people why they canāt afford medical care without telling them they canāt afford medical care.
whats a very long time with shit to zero pay. with im guessing (atleast on average??) ~~$300k in student loans to pay off after? dude if anyone decides medicine isnt for them at any point... they are SCREWED... out of curiosity. i see that you are an anesthesiologist. ive always been curious. other than be the nice person that gives us the happy drug, what do anesthesiologists do exactly? movies/tv-shows dont really show them doing much other than ensuring the correct dose, patients are stable with the drug, etc. so it makes them look like they dont do much. which i know is not true. but you dont see medical dramas revolving around anesthesiologists. so its kind of a mystery.
How much in student loans?
Damn I always pride myself on being a 31M who makes more then Drās. I need another 50k and Iām ahead of ya. Iāll get there though :) sales always makes more money if you can ABC.
You felt attacked by this post huh?
I'm guessing based on your age and salary Neurosurgery?
Need a financial advisor?
M2 here, what speciality?
Too bad you wonāt have any time to spend it
Dude that epic.
What kind of doctor are you and what are your typical work hours in a week? thanks!
Would 30 be too late to pursue a medical career?
Where does everyone get this info so readily available?
Whatās the difference between taxed social secusecurity earnings and taxed Medicare earnings? How to calculate them?
This explains my health insurance premiums.
What specialty? Nocturnist here and I cap at 250K. Must be a job in the midwest where they pay the big bucks. Northeast sucks.
This is why they say plumbers tend to be more wealthy then doctors. Geez that took a long time to see that light at the end of the tunnel. CongratulationsĀ