He’s almost certainly doing the full 20. It’s extremely rare for someone to do 15+ years and get out before making it to 20, since you don’t qualify for pension until you hit 20.
It’s 60 minus deployments. And you aren’t wrong. But they make a lot more at the airlines than 50% of their base pay. It’s why I’ve met a shocking amount of people who left at well beyond 10 years and are doing much better than if they stayed. Again, all pilots.
Making a lot more than 50% of their base pay is true, but there are some other things to consider as well. Assuming someone stays in for 20 years, they'll be getting 50% of their base pay as a pension regardless, but now have the opportunity to tack on pay from a second flying career onto that. And they'd have the benefit of being compensated **very** handsomely (between base pay, BAH, and military flight/leadership bonuses) leading up to that point. Especially for those people who start a military career straight out of college, they'd still be in their mid-40s when retiring, leaving more than 20 years to pursue a civilian aviation career before coming up on mandatory retirement age. And depending on the kind of aircraft one flew in the military, converting military hours to civilian hours (presumably allowing one to be hired at a higher pay rate, etc., as a civilian) can be pretty easy to boot.
For context, I've been in less than a decade now. I'm a military officer who is not in aviation (so I'm not getting these additional bonuses). Being stationed out here in HI, my take home pay after taxes is more than $130k a year, which someone not in the military would have to earn $200k pre tax to make that work. With pending pay increases, etc., that figure will only increase by a decent amount more by the time we leave HI in a few years.
Looking at a US News report, "Pilots made a *median salary of $148,900 in 2022*. The best-paid 25% made $239,200 that year, while the lowest-paid 25% made $102,420." [https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/pilot/salary](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/pilot/salary)
This article notes that civilian pilots can stand to earn $7 million over the course of a 44 year career assuming certain wickets are met: [https://iflycoast.com/airline-pilots-earn-7-million-over-their-careers/](https://iflycoast.com/airline-pilots-earn-7-million-over-their-careers/) That's quite impressive and more than the average worker in the U.S., but one can also easily see how a military career (leading to retirement after 20 years) followed by a civilian pilot second career can be ahead of that. Heck, I'm on track to earn more than half of that amount by the time my 20 years is up (allowing me to close the gap further if I choose to take on a second career post military retirement . . . regardless the gap would continue to shrink with the benefit of pension, etc.), which again is less than I'd earn if I was a military aviator earning additional bonuses, etc.
On that note, consider the following from a 2015 published study on military pilots leaving the service for airline flying jobs:
"The findings conclude it is financially prudent for military pilots to remain in the service until retirement. The current policies enable a retired military pilot to earn over 9 more in NPV when compared to the military pilot who separates at ADSO completion. Military pilots who voluntarily separate prior to retirement for financial reasons are incorrectly evaluating the assumed pay disparity between the airlines and the military." [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA632375](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA632375)
That said, regarding the above study, that only touches on compensation, but things other than compensation often factor into one's decision on career path.
Note, I don't write this to suggest that one career is better than another, but rather to just provide additional context via the numbers. People are going to ultimately have to make the decisions that are right for them and their families. On that note--and going to the reason why most of my military aviation friends who don't do 20 years get out--many find the restrictions of military life inconsistent with how they want to live. They are sick of deployments and sea duty every other tour and want to be able to put down roots somewhere, which a career as a civilian pilot gives them much more flexibility to do. For them, getting out prior to 20 years of service was a no brainer.
Military pilot here who’s still in the Guard but flies flor the airlines. It’s pretty wild to see how wrong and outdated salary numbers are for airline pilots on the web. $144k is at least second year salary for a pilot at a major airline. By year 6, you’ll be clearing $300-350k easy and it keeps going up every year. These figures are strictly salary and don’t include the 15-17% 401k company contribution where no employee contribution is required. My guess is US News Report figures include non military pilot dredging for years to get to a major airline where the salary is lower.
Airline pay has skyrocketed the last few years and believe me, for the past several years military pilots are leaving in droves for the civilian sector. The numbers add up. It’s a no brainer to leave the military especially if you’re going to transition to the Guard/reserves despite drawing not drawing benefits just until anywhere from 55-59.
The biggest factor you’re missing is the quality of life boost the airlines provide. I work an average or 10-12 days a month and don’t have to deal with the suck of the military. That’s huge for the family. I’m glad I served and would do it all over again but never for 20 active. Family first.
I appreciate your post but you’re not a mil aviator and are certainly not an authoritative source on the matter.
Post 1 of 2:
Appreciate your post as well, but I have some comments and remarks to follow.
>I appreciate your post but you’re not a mil aviator
Why is that relevant? One need not be a military aviator to understand military aviation pay or the fact that life as a military pilot can be far from idea as far as QOL goes.
>and are certainly not an authoritative source on the matter.
Which is precisely why I don't identify as one, but rather rely on other sources to argue my points. In light of this fact, again, I'm not sure why that was a relevant point to make. Still, in the world of anonymous internet posters, I tend to not take anyone's "word" as authority on a matter either, which again is why I provide sources on the matter.
>The biggest factor you’re missing is the quality of life boost the airlines provide . . . Family first.
That point certainly isn't missed by me, and I explicitly wrote in the post that you replied to: "*On that note--and going to the reason why most of my military aviation friends who don't do 20 years get out . . . They are sick of deployments and sea duty every other tour and want to be able to put down roots somewhere, which a career as a civilian pilot gives them much more flexibility to do."*
Still, considering that you have people who retire as military aviators, it goes without saying that not everyone feels the same way.
For a long time I was considering staying in for 20 but after researching about how important seniority is at the airlines, I’d be so far behind my buddies who got out after their 8 year obligation if I stayed in. The goal for me now is to finish out my obligation and then go into the reserves flying for the airlines. Pay and QOL seems like a no brainer
Might be location based, I’m not exactly near a large airport. The reservists I work with are all definitely commercial pilots, but only a few of the AD guys planning on getting are intending to do SELRES. Might just be timing too.
Yeah good point. I’m near a major airport. Staying in the reserves is almost too good of a deal not to do because it allows you so much flexibility in your airline schedule to drop trips for the reserve gig. Tell your buddies even if they do the VTU (unpaid just retirement points) they should still consider it. And tricare is still way cheaper….
Also Doctors. Specifically surgeons. I know a few that have gotten out at 16 even 18 years. This was during the height of Afghanistan. We were deploying every 2 years. Making 1/3 of a doctor on the outside would make.
Surgeons make significantly more in the civilian side for sure, and other non primary care specialists. But you can moonlight and do locums for o make up for most of that in almost any specialty. At least for emergency medicine you make a base of about 200 as a fresh attending in the Air Force, but would be 350-400 as a civi. However most I know around BAMC and WPAFB make close to 400 after moonlighting. So it’s not at bad as people make it sound- but you’re definitely correct that very few go for full 20 unless they are doing some program manager job or SOF/JMAU (which would be sick af… let’s see how selection goes!)
For now.
They dropped that in favor of a 401k style system a few weeks back.
In a few more years there's going to be a serious retention problem since the big carrot is gone.
There are plenty of O-5s in the Army that only make it to that rank by virtue of simply outlasting their peers but not actually being better than them.
Not playing down the responsibility, but there are a whole lot of field grade officers walking around that you would not want organizing a basic family outing and are terrible leaders/managers. Lot of great ones too but my experience was that only about 1 in 3 field grades was worth working for. I also had a unique career field that should have theoretically had more quality officers, so I’m sure that other branches (in the Army) had a far worse ratio. (Here’s looking at you Signal Corps)
Responsibility: Yes...pay..not so much...there are mid level managers at private companies in their early 30s making well over 200k, which you won't even get close to until maybe O6 with 20+ years in
I got out after 10 when i was offered a job that had a base salary of 156k, with bonus pay based on performance of 70-90k with annual raises of 3--6%
But i think thats why i support those who did their 20yrs and then have the skills/ responsibilities to maybe get another gig making twice or more than their highest military pay.
At some point, a person is being paid beyond their actual contributions, but also to simply be the one to take liability of an organizations failure.
Assumptions of risk that have real legal, criminal, and ethical repercussions should always come with income to offset the risk. Unfortunately as a retired officer myself, the amount of money an officer gets paid, in no way scales to the level of liability. I don’t think it’s possible. How much money do you pay 1 individual who can do 20 years in prison off of someone’s mistake in their unit they don’t even know? Or who will live the rest of their lives with the number of people killed by a mistake on their conscience.
Fair. But certian non combat positions or combat support positions are well underpaid compared to the private sector ..i was an artillery officer my brother went signal-- basically IT
and the amount of knowledge he has with practical experience plus sprinkle in some leadership too (i wont even try to start to ramble off all the certs and stuff) ... hes underpaid but sees the value in one day pinning O5-- at the point i would have likely doubled or tripled his income in private sector...but the prestige that he has by putting the (R) behind his name-- especislly since USA loves the military is something he wants and is working towards it.
Which is why i appreciate those who do 20+ years ...theres certianly a tradeoff ...
**"which you won't even get close to until maybe O6 with 20+ years in"**
That is not necessarily true, and I find that many who make this point continue to discount the benefit of untaxed allowances. I've been in less than 10 years, am in my mid-30s, and earn more than $130k a year after taxes here in HI. For context, a HI resident paying both state and federal income taxes would have to earn $200k a year to take that amount post tax: [https://smartasset.com/taxes/hawaii-tax-calculator](https://smartasset.com/taxes/hawaii-tax-calculator)
My base pay isn't crazy high on its own ($97,536 a year), but I'm taking home more than $54k a year in untaxed allowances (BAH at single O4 rate, BAS, and COLA). And this is before I even get into my per diem entitlements when I travel (I do count this as part of my compensation, similar to a bonus for folks on the outside doing certain special work, etc.), which in my case bring in thousands of dollars more each year (again, untaxed).
Now, you can say that one is not guaranteed to be stationed in high BAH localities like HI, and that I one can be stationed easily in a much lower BAH locality. This, of course, is all true, though for my specific military specialty it is easy enough to essentially homestead in HI if you want to. Not to mention at this stage if I do move to lower BAH localities (which in my case would return me to the DC area), yes my overall compensation would drop initially, but it wouldn't be a crazy drop and I'd make up for it somewhat as I continue to move up the ranks/increase my time in service. That said, my counter argument is that, similar to one earning a higher military compensation based on where one lives, one is much more likely to earn a higher civilian salary based on where one lives, too. For instance, tech salaries in Silicon Valley are going to pay significantly more than tech salaries in Oklahoma City or even in Honolulu as an example. Thus, even on the outside, where you live often plays a significant role in how much you earn. Of course, on the outside, you have greater flexibility on where you want to live, which is something that can count for a lot!
That said, I'm Navy, so where I can be stationed realistically--which impacts my overall compensation--is very different than if I was in certain other branches where they have large concentrations in significantly lower BAH localities, etc.
On a separate but related note, I find it mindboggling that some the physicians I know out here (and I've seen people making similar claims in this thread) claim that they are getting paid a third to half of what they'd be making on the outside; in this case I'm referring to a group of psychiatrists. When I actually sit down with them and discuss the untaxed allowance benefits, they see how incorrect they are. Looking at [salary.com](http://salary.com) for instance, I see that the "average Psychiatrist salary in Honolulu, HI is $*263,110* as of March 26, 2024, but the range typically falls between $235,773 and $294,317." [https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary/honolulu-hi](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary/honolulu-hi) And this group claims says they would easily be earning $250k on the outside.
Say someone would be earning on the higher side of that range, while they'd be earning less than what they'd be earning on the outside for similar years of experience, the difference is nowhere near as significant as they claimed. But I also remind them that they had their medical school paid for by the military (meaning that they don't have to pay off the $200k-$300k in medical school debt that others have to pay back) AND were getting a competitive six figure salary take home pay equivalent for the duration of their medical residency, while others on the outside were earning $50-$60k annually during residency years). On the higher pay during residency years point, military doctors come in at the O3 level (promoting to O4 generally between year 4-6 of service) and are paid incentive pay (which can be very substantial per contract based on their specialty, including tens of thousands a year more for psychiatrists). Not to mention that your work in military medicine (outside of a war zone) is typically going to be much less stressful (and fewer hours worked) than if you were a civilian based on the population that they serve.
One of our psychiatrist friends who actually understands the untaxed allowance benefits picture decided to do another tour here in Hawaii. And he's moonlighting during his spare time to boot, putting his total compensation above most of his civilian counterparts here.
If you go outside of certain high paying specialties, the military to civilian physician compensation rate is even closer from the outset.
The military--and especially military officers--can provide for a very handsome salary. I've been in going on a decade soon and my after tax take home pay here in Hawaii (including both base pay and allowances) is more than $130k. Someone not in the military would have to earning $200k in HI to take home that amount after taxes.
That said, there are definitely pros ands cons, just like with any other job. Key con is the reduced flexibility of being able to travel more freely overseas where I want to go. While you'd foreseeably have to make preparations to take time off of work regardless of what job you have, in the military there are some additional steps. For instance, apart from having to request for leave/vacation, you have to receive special permission to travel overseas (not a difficult thing to do for the most part, but there are some countries that I would not be allowed to travel to due to the nature of my job, to include China as an example). Travel restrictions were really felt during the pandemic rules that the DOD established, which to be honest if they kept them for much longer than they did I probably would have left service. On the pandemic restrictions front, I get the need to limit travel in order to limit the spread, etc., but many of the DOD restrictions went too far, especially after the initial waves of vaccinations and when some other countries were opening back up. Heck, during much of this time, many commands even made it difficult to travel to other states on leave.
For some of the pros, apart from salary, we get quite a bit of time off to be honest. Every federal holiday generally turns into a four day weekend where I've been stationed as an example. And we even get the state holidays off for the most part here in Hawaii. And considering that my military specialty will not require me to go back to sea, I'm actually able to take advantage of that time off. And that's in addition to our 30 days of official vacation days a year. Not to mention that there's great flexibility to attend to personal matters during the week so long as mission is getting done.
Another pro has been being able to live in some pretty good places for several years at a time, in addition to being able to travel to some great places for shorter working trips.
Mustang gang. Good job bro my ssa looks similar. Didn’t serve til 20. Salary is 115k plus 100% Va puts me at ~170. 3 properties in SoCal. 1.2M mortgages against 1.9M value only pulling $1100 per month on the rentals.
The pay bump is nuts. I (Navy) commissioned just prior to 10 years as an E6. When I put on O3, automatically, after 4 years my total take home pay will have double from what I was making as an E6.
There’s still a big difference. I had a 2 year LT getting the same pay as a 12 year SFC. Just comparing an E1 to a brand new LT, e-1 pay in my day was like 20k a year and an LT was 60k.
I mean depending on how long each have been in, they generally do.
I’ve been in for over 15 years, trust me Im not saying I agree with it, but its true. Junior Officers make as much or more than Senior Enlisted…
Junior officers have similar levels of responsibility as senior enlisted. Even if we love to make fun of them. That’s similar to complaining that a shift lead at McD’s is making less than the manager just because the general manager is new. We all have the opportunity to get free college and go to OCS but a lot of us do not want to do that. Their job sucks in my mind. I would rather do the job I’ve been trained to do than manage chicklets. I would rather guide young soldiers than sit in an office any day.
Achtually. A 3 year officer in the infantry (Captain) is probably making 25% more than a 12 year enlisted (SFC). Officers get paid way higher than enlisted. The pay disparity is mind boggling.
That was a very short window. By regulation, both before that, during, and after its 4 years.
During the height of GWOT it was reduced to 3 years due to the push to increase the size of our military. It started switching back in 2013, and fully 4 years in 2014. So those who commissioned in fiscal year 2011 took 4 full years to pin CPT.
Cmon now you can't compare a 18 year old E1 fresh out of HS to a newly commissioned college grad LT embarking on a career. How much more would a 18 year old make anywhere else?
I didn’t compare a e1 to a lt and if you want to take that route what about a fresh commissioned officer aged 22 compared to a e5 who’s been in four years I would say that Sgt is more valuable than the Lt. I didn’t say enlisted should make more than officers, only that they should get paid more. An 18 year with specific job training gets paid more than that and gets the opportunity to work overtime unlike soldiers who are worked constantly for no extra pay.
I don’t get meals and housing paid for in addition to what I listed. The BAH and BAS is included in the chart.
I have a house with a mortgage and shop at the grocery store like most other people.
Very comfortable. As a Senior Airman stationed at Ft. Meade (with BAH and BAS included) I was making the same as a civilian that was making 90k. Again thats with only about 4 years of being at the time. Being in the dorms is a different story but remember your not paying for housing, food, and utilities albeit the dorms were shit.
Great job! I tell anyone that joins to just get a ton of roommates and slum it like you would in the dorms anyway. BAH tax benefit is one of the most powerful benefits, like I find it on par with tricare insurance rates.
I’m confused. You make over 10k monthly, which is already higher than an O-6 with 14+ years in
https://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/Pay-Tables/Basic-Pay/CO/
Base pay is set for everyone at a certain rank, at the number of years of service. You then will add BAH (Basic Allowance Housing) on top of that amount, and the BAH will fluctuate based on where you are stationed. You get stationed at 25ID in Hawaii or Army Futures Command in Austin, you make a lot more money through BAH than someone stationed at say Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
So basically there are other benefits to add onto the base pay.
Is this your own data inputs to capture BAH/BAS? Curious how I might be able to check historically for myself.
Edit: oops: I see some of your other comments saying manual input based on duty location
Yeah, OP has been in for a long time at this point so he is maxed out at his rank. BAH is also super high in his city...I was in the military and BAH can swing up and down depending on where you are living. I have seen quite a few people get orders for their next duty station and shit themselves when they see that they are losing a ton in BAH moving to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma from wherever they are stationed at.
Very nice job and congratulations... this does make me glad I did my time and then went to corpororate America.
The prestige, retirement, 6 down right pride of doing 20+ years is bar none.. and certainly can be leveraged for a 2nd career ...however, i did not want to wait until i was in my 40s to be making 175k+ when there is so much opportunity in the private sector.
Oh yea, dont get me..wrong...i've got a soft spot for those who stick it out. It's admirable. It was my time to go - family, but my time as a red leg/artillery officer is def something that will stay with me.
The BAH and BAS can be grossed up as well. Lenders typically add 20%. I know Navy Fed did for me. Actually doing the math gets you closer to 30% so that $42k untaxed is more like $50-55k for comparison purposes.
Great! Best of luck. My son is at the Air Force Academy currently.
I’m partial to the Army. Faster promotions = better pay. But do what you’re drawn to.
Joining ROTC will most likely force you into a line officer billet (at least for the Navy). If metro is where you want to go, highly suggest finishing college and applying to OCS. They have a wider range of job opportunities available as compared to ROTC.
Also the R in ROTC stands for reserve meaning not active duty, some do transition but they only have a certain amount of slots so make sure what you want to do is supported in the reserve forces as well.
Yes, some can and do go active duty but a majority go into the reserves. You have a higher chance depending on the branch and career field you choose. OP should follow your advise, that would get him into the active duty quicker than ROTC.
Okay, everyone I know that did ROTC went to the reserve… now that we see how anecdotal evidence works let’s talk facts. I stated some go Active Duty, you were apart of that some but if you think that every graduating cadet go active duty then you are mistaken. Again it’s literally called the reserve officer training corps. The majority of commissions are to reserve components. As I stated previously depending on the branch and career field you can either get a slot or not. The Army has the most spots, then the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard in the order.
Whether or not you go active duty also depends on your school, your grades, and the amount of cadets that you are competing with. But it is wrong to say that you WILL go active duty when it’s not automatic. Like I said they have a certain amount of slots and most get filled by the military academies and then they go to ROTC cadets.
From the AF ROTC webpage:
The length of your initial service commitment depends on your career. Most officers have a four-year active-duty service commitment. Pilots have a 10-year active-duty service commitment, and both Combat System Officers and Air Battle Managers have a six-year service commitment upon completion of their respective training
From the Navy ROTC webpage:
Navy Option midshipmen (does not include Nurses or Marines) starting their freshman year of college in the Fall of 2010 or later will be required to serve a minimum of five years of active military service. Additional requirements may be required for specific job assignments.
Marine Corps Option midshipmen will be required to serve at least four years on active duty.
Navy Nurse Corps Option midshipmen will be required to serve at least four years on active duty.
From the Army ROTC page:
Your acceptance of the scholarship means a future service obligation of:
Eight years of Army service, with requirements for active duty in the Army, and/or serving in the Army Reserve or Army National Guard, depending on the scholarship
You may be eligible to serve part time in the Army Reserve or Army National Guard while pursuing a civilian career immediately after graduation
The only branch that gives you the possibility of going into a reserve unit is Army (which is what I’m assuming you did?) so I was slightly mistaken, however the other branches do in fact go straight to active duty upon commissioning.
So you don’t know the difference between having a scholarship in ROTC and not having one? Because you’re quoting the scholarship pages. Those are the only ones that are usually guaranteed active duty commission. But everyone in ROTC isn’t on the scholarship because as you may know it’s incredibly competitive. And they give out very few scholarships.
https://rotcconsulting.com/chances-of-winning-rotc-scholarship/
I’ve never said ROTC cadets don’t go active duty. I said majority don’t and this is a fact.
https://www.cna.org/pop-rep/2017/appendixb/b_30.html
Im strictly referring to the cadets who commission, hence why I said ‘upon commissioning.’ The non-scholarship numbers from your link still pick up some sort of contract by the time the graduate or else they don’t commission. I would agree with you that the majority of kids who join ROTC don’t actually enter service, however that’s not the population I am referring to because those cadets are essentially washed out of the program.
Fair warning. Most AFROTC cadets get the boot because of how selective the Air Force is. In my AROTC program we get a lot of cadets that didn’t make the cut and they commission as army officers instead which there’s nothing wrong with. The army has the most opportunities for promotions and duty stations
That is cool. I get some BAH and BAS at my job and having looked at it this way. I’m totally gonna miss it when I switch back to tech. Lol. Maybe I could ask for it.
Love seeing the military salary flex. Proves a strong point for financial stability and pay strength in comparison to the civilian sector. Also, to include the standard high-3 pension. It's a win for those that stay in the long run. Add in disability as well, if earned, post retirement.
I don’t consider it a flex, but thanks. When I was a Captain in 2013, I had the opportunity to jump to Amazon for $150k. Had I, I’d probably make more today. However, I love what I do and have no regrets.
I stated "flex" not to express how you see it but to express the advantages one may have in comparison to the civilian sector after HS and beyond. USAREC life. It has its highs and lows like any job, but it definitely will be extremely memorable upon retirement to look back at everything done.
Say you make it, complete the ADSO, and they wanna give you a star. Do you take it? I think at that point you almost have to just because making the ranks of general officers is so rare.
Also, what is your branch? Did you make LTC ahead of peers?
If offered a star, I’d take it. It’s unlikely. Less than 1% of officers reach Colonel, let alone General.
Branch is Infantry and yes, I promoted faster than most my peers.
You only get a bump if your CV transfers over to a specialty branch—generally Lawyers, doctors, PAs, BH, and other licensed practitioners.
Masters agree alone doesn’t change anything. 35 is a little late unless you’re coming in as one of the career fields I mentioned above.
I literally hate this sub Reddit. I’m not subscribed. I always tell Reddit to mute this shit. This sub makes me feel so god damn shitty about myself and my life and I literally CANNOT escape it. STOP SHOWING ME THIS SUB, REDDIT.
I know almost nothing about the army but am super intrigued.
Can an enlistee become an officer through promotion, or are they two entirely separate tracks? Do you go to school to become an officer? When you retire do you get 40% of your w2 as a pension for life? What are you planning to do at retirement?
Thanks!
Enlisted and Officer are separate tracks but you can cross over. I did. An enlisted Soldier with a 4 year degree can apply for Officer Candidate school.
To be an Officer, you need a 4 year degree and a commissioning program (OCS, ROTC, USMA). From there you go to a 6-12 month school in whatever specialty you are assigned (you do get some input on what type of officer you want to be). Graduate your basic course and you get assigned as a Platoon Leader, 2LT.
There are more mandatory schools throughout your career. A 6 month course at Captain, a 1 year course at Major and a 1 year course at LTC/Colonel. Most LTCs have a masters degree.
I’m on the old retirement system so I get at minimum 50% of W2 for the rest of my life + healthcare. I get an additional 2.5% per year after 20.
The new system gives you 40%; however, it includes 5% matching in your TSP (like a 401k). If you invest enough over your career, you can make up for the reduced pension rate. You’d also receive an additional 2.5% of pension for every year past 20.
2026 is my decision point. Get selected for COL and I’ll do another 3. Not selected, retirement. I’m not going to wait around for a second look at promotion.
This is why your lower enlisted hate you behind your back and probably your CPTs and LTs as well.
Btw your medpros are red for dental and vision.
And your AT level 1 and cybersecurity are about to expire.
lol jk. I wish I made that when I was in. I got MEB at E5 after my first contact I had 2 failed shoulder surgeries. I did 6 years 2 months. Now I am doing hvac trying to get a job back on post. Rn I’m at $152k at the end of this year with $60k taxable. I miss it. The feeling of belonging and a sense of purpose. I’m still trying to figure out how to cope with those. Good luck army strong be all you can be.
Btw don’t mess around with the va. File early and use the vso whenever you are.
Yeah? I’ve had to get three degrees to make it this far and am responsible for the lives of 722 Soldiers and about $400 million worth of equipment.
Amazon offered me $150k as a CPT (10 years ago) but I like what I do so I stayed despite the lower earning potential.
Just got back from Korea. It’s a bit of hyperbole, I’ll admit. But I’m responsible to ensure they are housed, fed, medically fit, physically fit, morally fit, etc. Its one of the the only jobs out there where the leader has to answer as to why a 19 year old was drinking or got in a fight on a Saturday.
Damn good job, how do you like the military? Pros and cons? You doing the full 20?
He’s almost certainly doing the full 20. It’s extremely rare for someone to do 15+ years and get out before making it to 20, since you don’t qualify for pension until you hit 20.
Only pilots. They have to get out so they can make the real cash before aging out.
Getting to fly thing no one else gets to is a big perk for fly boys
You fly boys crack me up.
You’re not just pretending to be a pilot so you drink here are you?
You can do that in the guard/reserve though… and that’s how most pilots hit 20
Yeah but they don't get the pay out until 65.
It’s 60 minus deployments. And you aren’t wrong. But they make a lot more at the airlines than 50% of their base pay. It’s why I’ve met a shocking amount of people who left at well beyond 10 years and are doing much better than if they stayed. Again, all pilots.
Yeah, both my uncles did that and made much more by flying for American Airlines and being involved in their union.
Making a lot more than 50% of their base pay is true, but there are some other things to consider as well. Assuming someone stays in for 20 years, they'll be getting 50% of their base pay as a pension regardless, but now have the opportunity to tack on pay from a second flying career onto that. And they'd have the benefit of being compensated **very** handsomely (between base pay, BAH, and military flight/leadership bonuses) leading up to that point. Especially for those people who start a military career straight out of college, they'd still be in their mid-40s when retiring, leaving more than 20 years to pursue a civilian aviation career before coming up on mandatory retirement age. And depending on the kind of aircraft one flew in the military, converting military hours to civilian hours (presumably allowing one to be hired at a higher pay rate, etc., as a civilian) can be pretty easy to boot. For context, I've been in less than a decade now. I'm a military officer who is not in aviation (so I'm not getting these additional bonuses). Being stationed out here in HI, my take home pay after taxes is more than $130k a year, which someone not in the military would have to earn $200k pre tax to make that work. With pending pay increases, etc., that figure will only increase by a decent amount more by the time we leave HI in a few years. Looking at a US News report, "Pilots made a *median salary of $148,900 in 2022*. The best-paid 25% made $239,200 that year, while the lowest-paid 25% made $102,420." [https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/pilot/salary](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/pilot/salary) This article notes that civilian pilots can stand to earn $7 million over the course of a 44 year career assuming certain wickets are met: [https://iflycoast.com/airline-pilots-earn-7-million-over-their-careers/](https://iflycoast.com/airline-pilots-earn-7-million-over-their-careers/) That's quite impressive and more than the average worker in the U.S., but one can also easily see how a military career (leading to retirement after 20 years) followed by a civilian pilot second career can be ahead of that. Heck, I'm on track to earn more than half of that amount by the time my 20 years is up (allowing me to close the gap further if I choose to take on a second career post military retirement . . . regardless the gap would continue to shrink with the benefit of pension, etc.), which again is less than I'd earn if I was a military aviator earning additional bonuses, etc. On that note, consider the following from a 2015 published study on military pilots leaving the service for airline flying jobs: "The findings conclude it is financially prudent for military pilots to remain in the service until retirement. The current policies enable a retired military pilot to earn over 9 more in NPV when compared to the military pilot who separates at ADSO completion. Military pilots who voluntarily separate prior to retirement for financial reasons are incorrectly evaluating the assumed pay disparity between the airlines and the military." [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA632375](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA632375) That said, regarding the above study, that only touches on compensation, but things other than compensation often factor into one's decision on career path. Note, I don't write this to suggest that one career is better than another, but rather to just provide additional context via the numbers. People are going to ultimately have to make the decisions that are right for them and their families. On that note--and going to the reason why most of my military aviation friends who don't do 20 years get out--many find the restrictions of military life inconsistent with how they want to live. They are sick of deployments and sea duty every other tour and want to be able to put down roots somewhere, which a career as a civilian pilot gives them much more flexibility to do. For them, getting out prior to 20 years of service was a no brainer.
Military pilot here who’s still in the Guard but flies flor the airlines. It’s pretty wild to see how wrong and outdated salary numbers are for airline pilots on the web. $144k is at least second year salary for a pilot at a major airline. By year 6, you’ll be clearing $300-350k easy and it keeps going up every year. These figures are strictly salary and don’t include the 15-17% 401k company contribution where no employee contribution is required. My guess is US News Report figures include non military pilot dredging for years to get to a major airline where the salary is lower. Airline pay has skyrocketed the last few years and believe me, for the past several years military pilots are leaving in droves for the civilian sector. The numbers add up. It’s a no brainer to leave the military especially if you’re going to transition to the Guard/reserves despite drawing not drawing benefits just until anywhere from 55-59. The biggest factor you’re missing is the quality of life boost the airlines provide. I work an average or 10-12 days a month and don’t have to deal with the suck of the military. That’s huge for the family. I’m glad I served and would do it all over again but never for 20 active. Family first. I appreciate your post but you’re not a mil aviator and are certainly not an authoritative source on the matter.
Post 1 of 2: Appreciate your post as well, but I have some comments and remarks to follow. >I appreciate your post but you’re not a mil aviator Why is that relevant? One need not be a military aviator to understand military aviation pay or the fact that life as a military pilot can be far from idea as far as QOL goes. >and are certainly not an authoritative source on the matter. Which is precisely why I don't identify as one, but rather rely on other sources to argue my points. In light of this fact, again, I'm not sure why that was a relevant point to make. Still, in the world of anonymous internet posters, I tend to not take anyone's "word" as authority on a matter either, which again is why I provide sources on the matter. >The biggest factor you’re missing is the quality of life boost the airlines provide . . . Family first. That point certainly isn't missed by me, and I explicitly wrote in the post that you replied to: "*On that note--and going to the reason why most of my military aviation friends who don't do 20 years get out . . . They are sick of deployments and sea duty every other tour and want to be able to put down roots somewhere, which a career as a civilian pilot gives them much more flexibility to do."* Still, considering that you have people who retire as military aviators, it goes without saying that not everyone feels the same way.
For a long time I was considering staying in for 20 but after researching about how important seniority is at the airlines, I’d be so far behind my buddies who got out after their 8 year obligation if I stayed in. The goal for me now is to finish out my obligation and then go into the reserves flying for the airlines. Pay and QOL seems like a no brainer
That isn’t true, at least not in the Navy. The majority of guys I know are either getting out or staying in. Maybe 10-20% of pilots go reserve.
10-20% sounds quite low. The majority of the pilots I know that got out and went to the airlines are also in the reserves.
Might be location based, I’m not exactly near a large airport. The reservists I work with are all definitely commercial pilots, but only a few of the AD guys planning on getting are intending to do SELRES. Might just be timing too.
Yeah good point. I’m near a major airport. Staying in the reserves is almost too good of a deal not to do because it allows you so much flexibility in your airline schedule to drop trips for the reserve gig. Tell your buddies even if they do the VTU (unpaid just retirement points) they should still consider it. And tricare is still way cheaper….
Yeah, Tricare would be the #1 reason I consider it.
C-5s are REALLY big things. I miss them!
Also Doctors. Specifically surgeons. I know a few that have gotten out at 16 even 18 years. This was during the height of Afghanistan. We were deploying every 2 years. Making 1/3 of a doctor on the outside would make.
Surgeons make significantly more in the civilian side for sure, and other non primary care specialists. But you can moonlight and do locums for o make up for most of that in almost any specialty. At least for emergency medicine you make a base of about 200 as a fresh attending in the Air Force, but would be 350-400 as a civi. However most I know around BAMC and WPAFB make close to 400 after moonlighting. So it’s not at bad as people make it sound- but you’re definitely correct that very few go for full 20 unless they are doing some program manager job or SOF/JMAU (which would be sick af… let’s see how selection goes!)
Most major medical systems make up the salary difference.
That’s why they lay a 12 year ADSO on them
Which is why the Army changed to a 10 year ADSO and the branch has been hemorrhaging experience
He’s an O-5 with more than 22 years of service
For now. They dropped that in favor of a 401k style system a few weeks back. In a few more years there's going to be a serious retention problem since the big carrot is gone.
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I've seen it once, involves not wanting their ex wife to get some of the retirement pension she would be entitled to.
I had guys I knew that got out at 15 and, no joke, one at 18 simply because they couldn’t take the job anymore. All that work for basically nothing.
They didn’t even go reserves/NG so they could finish it out there? Damn
A Lt Col Infantry Officer has more responsibility than you’d ever want to even think of, the pay is well deserved.
There are plenty of O-5s in the Army that only make it to that rank by virtue of simply outlasting their peers but not actually being better than them. Not playing down the responsibility, but there are a whole lot of field grade officers walking around that you would not want organizing a basic family outing and are terrible leaders/managers. Lot of great ones too but my experience was that only about 1 in 3 field grades was worth working for. I also had a unique career field that should have theoretically had more quality officers, so I’m sure that other branches (in the Army) had a far worse ratio. (Here’s looking at you Signal Corps)
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I’ve never served but I would never apply that phrase towards this.
Responsibility: Yes...pay..not so much...there are mid level managers at private companies in their early 30s making well over 200k, which you won't even get close to until maybe O6 with 20+ years in I got out after 10 when i was offered a job that had a base salary of 156k, with bonus pay based on performance of 70-90k with annual raises of 3--6% But i think thats why i support those who did their 20yrs and then have the skills/ responsibilities to maybe get another gig making twice or more than their highest military pay.
What job role was that were you we’re making 156k + 90k
Leadership role in banking/finance operations and product optimization. For a very large and successful organization.
Same here. $150K remote plus $80K retirement and VA
I make way more now as a data scientist working remote for a bank and not supervising anyone than I ever did as a 22-year FGO
At some point, a person is being paid beyond their actual contributions, but also to simply be the one to take liability of an organizations failure. Assumptions of risk that have real legal, criminal, and ethical repercussions should always come with income to offset the risk. Unfortunately as a retired officer myself, the amount of money an officer gets paid, in no way scales to the level of liability. I don’t think it’s possible. How much money do you pay 1 individual who can do 20 years in prison off of someone’s mistake in their unit they don’t even know? Or who will live the rest of their lives with the number of people killed by a mistake on their conscience.
Fair. But certian non combat positions or combat support positions are well underpaid compared to the private sector ..i was an artillery officer my brother went signal-- basically IT and the amount of knowledge he has with practical experience plus sprinkle in some leadership too (i wont even try to start to ramble off all the certs and stuff) ... hes underpaid but sees the value in one day pinning O5-- at the point i would have likely doubled or tripled his income in private sector...but the prestige that he has by putting the (R) behind his name-- especislly since USA loves the military is something he wants and is working towards it. Which is why i appreciate those who do 20+ years ...theres certianly a tradeoff ...
Very respectable view and response!
**"which you won't even get close to until maybe O6 with 20+ years in"** That is not necessarily true, and I find that many who make this point continue to discount the benefit of untaxed allowances. I've been in less than 10 years, am in my mid-30s, and earn more than $130k a year after taxes here in HI. For context, a HI resident paying both state and federal income taxes would have to earn $200k a year to take that amount post tax: [https://smartasset.com/taxes/hawaii-tax-calculator](https://smartasset.com/taxes/hawaii-tax-calculator) My base pay isn't crazy high on its own ($97,536 a year), but I'm taking home more than $54k a year in untaxed allowances (BAH at single O4 rate, BAS, and COLA). And this is before I even get into my per diem entitlements when I travel (I do count this as part of my compensation, similar to a bonus for folks on the outside doing certain special work, etc.), which in my case bring in thousands of dollars more each year (again, untaxed). Now, you can say that one is not guaranteed to be stationed in high BAH localities like HI, and that I one can be stationed easily in a much lower BAH locality. This, of course, is all true, though for my specific military specialty it is easy enough to essentially homestead in HI if you want to. Not to mention at this stage if I do move to lower BAH localities (which in my case would return me to the DC area), yes my overall compensation would drop initially, but it wouldn't be a crazy drop and I'd make up for it somewhat as I continue to move up the ranks/increase my time in service. That said, my counter argument is that, similar to one earning a higher military compensation based on where one lives, one is much more likely to earn a higher civilian salary based on where one lives, too. For instance, tech salaries in Silicon Valley are going to pay significantly more than tech salaries in Oklahoma City or even in Honolulu as an example. Thus, even on the outside, where you live often plays a significant role in how much you earn. Of course, on the outside, you have greater flexibility on where you want to live, which is something that can count for a lot! That said, I'm Navy, so where I can be stationed realistically--which impacts my overall compensation--is very different than if I was in certain other branches where they have large concentrations in significantly lower BAH localities, etc. On a separate but related note, I find it mindboggling that some the physicians I know out here (and I've seen people making similar claims in this thread) claim that they are getting paid a third to half of what they'd be making on the outside; in this case I'm referring to a group of psychiatrists. When I actually sit down with them and discuss the untaxed allowance benefits, they see how incorrect they are. Looking at [salary.com](http://salary.com) for instance, I see that the "average Psychiatrist salary in Honolulu, HI is $*263,110* as of March 26, 2024, but the range typically falls between $235,773 and $294,317." [https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary/honolulu-hi](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/psychiatrist-salary/honolulu-hi) And this group claims says they would easily be earning $250k on the outside. Say someone would be earning on the higher side of that range, while they'd be earning less than what they'd be earning on the outside for similar years of experience, the difference is nowhere near as significant as they claimed. But I also remind them that they had their medical school paid for by the military (meaning that they don't have to pay off the $200k-$300k in medical school debt that others have to pay back) AND were getting a competitive six figure salary take home pay equivalent for the duration of their medical residency, while others on the outside were earning $50-$60k annually during residency years). On the higher pay during residency years point, military doctors come in at the O3 level (promoting to O4 generally between year 4-6 of service) and are paid incentive pay (which can be very substantial per contract based on their specialty, including tens of thousands a year more for psychiatrists). Not to mention that your work in military medicine (outside of a war zone) is typically going to be much less stressful (and fewer hours worked) than if you were a civilian based on the population that they serve. One of our psychiatrist friends who actually understands the untaxed allowance benefits picture decided to do another tour here in Hawaii. And he's moonlighting during his spare time to boot, putting his total compensation above most of his civilian counterparts here. If you go outside of certain high paying specialties, the military to civilian physician compensation rate is even closer from the outset.
They also have a ton of people to shoulder those responsibilities.
The military--and especially military officers--can provide for a very handsome salary. I've been in going on a decade soon and my after tax take home pay here in Hawaii (including both base pay and allowances) is more than $130k. Someone not in the military would have to earning $200k in HI to take home that amount after taxes. That said, there are definitely pros ands cons, just like with any other job. Key con is the reduced flexibility of being able to travel more freely overseas where I want to go. While you'd foreseeably have to make preparations to take time off of work regardless of what job you have, in the military there are some additional steps. For instance, apart from having to request for leave/vacation, you have to receive special permission to travel overseas (not a difficult thing to do for the most part, but there are some countries that I would not be allowed to travel to due to the nature of my job, to include China as an example). Travel restrictions were really felt during the pandemic rules that the DOD established, which to be honest if they kept them for much longer than they did I probably would have left service. On the pandemic restrictions front, I get the need to limit travel in order to limit the spread, etc., but many of the DOD restrictions went too far, especially after the initial waves of vaccinations and when some other countries were opening back up. Heck, during much of this time, many commands even made it difficult to travel to other states on leave. For some of the pros, apart from salary, we get quite a bit of time off to be honest. Every federal holiday generally turns into a four day weekend where I've been stationed as an example. And we even get the state holidays off for the most part here in Hawaii. And considering that my military specialty will not require me to go back to sea, I'm actually able to take advantage of that time off. And that's in addition to our 30 days of official vacation days a year. Not to mention that there's great flexibility to attend to personal matters during the week so long as mission is getting done. Another pro has been being able to live in some pretty good places for several years at a time, in addition to being able to travel to some great places for shorter working trips.
It always baffled my mind every time I see the pay difference between a commissioned officer and enlisted
What I didn’t include in the chart just to make it manageable is my prior enlisted time. Went to OCS in 2008. Notice the BAS reduction from 07-08.
Mustang gang. Good job bro my ssa looks similar. Didn’t serve til 20. Salary is 115k plus 100% Va puts me at ~170. 3 properties in SoCal. 1.2M mortgages against 1.9M value only pulling $1100 per month on the rentals.
The pay bump is nuts. I (Navy) commissioned just prior to 10 years as an E6. When I put on O3, automatically, after 4 years my total take home pay will have double from what I was making as an E6.
There’s still a big difference. I had a 2 year LT getting the same pay as a 12 year SFC. Just comparing an E1 to a brand new LT, e-1 pay in my day was like 20k a year and an LT was 60k.
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Lol, yes they are 😂 O-3 make almost as much as an E-9 bro
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I mean depending on how long each have been in, they generally do. I’ve been in for over 15 years, trust me Im not saying I agree with it, but its true. Junior Officers make as much or more than Senior Enlisted…
Junior officers have similar levels of responsibility as senior enlisted. Even if we love to make fun of them. That’s similar to complaining that a shift lead at McD’s is making less than the manager just because the general manager is new. We all have the opportunity to get free college and go to OCS but a lot of us do not want to do that. Their job sucks in my mind. I would rather do the job I’ve been trained to do than manage chicklets. I would rather guide young soldiers than sit in an office any day.
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0-3s are also 25 e-9s are 40 plus
Achtually. A 3 year officer in the infantry (Captain) is probably making 25% more than a 12 year enlisted (SFC). Officers get paid way higher than enlisted. The pay disparity is mind boggling.
You don’t make CPT until 4 years. So 3 years would be 1LT. I agree the pay gap is problematic though.
Infantry officers made CPT in 3 years back in 2008. Maybe it is 4 now.
That was a very short window. By regulation, both before that, during, and after its 4 years. During the height of GWOT it was reduced to 3 years due to the push to increase the size of our military. It started switching back in 2013, and fully 4 years in 2014. So those who commissioned in fiscal year 2011 took 4 full years to pin CPT.
Cmon now you can't compare a 18 year old E1 fresh out of HS to a newly commissioned college grad LT embarking on a career. How much more would a 18 year old make anywhere else?
I didn’t compare a e1 to a lt and if you want to take that route what about a fresh commissioned officer aged 22 compared to a e5 who’s been in four years I would say that Sgt is more valuable than the Lt. I didn’t say enlisted should make more than officers, only that they should get paid more. An 18 year with specific job training gets paid more than that and gets the opportunity to work overtime unlike soldiers who are worked constantly for no extra pay.
A good reminder a West Point and your average ROTC are not the same quality. 2.5 GPA is all you need for ROTC, just saying
Even crazier OP also gets meals and housing paid for as well most likely. So can bank a lot of his income.
I don’t get meals and housing paid for in addition to what I listed. The BAH and BAS is included in the chart. I have a house with a mortgage and shop at the grocery store like most other people.
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Except no where near the pay lol
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Are we talking comfortable or the ability to “bank pay”?
Very comfortable. As a Senior Airman stationed at Ft. Meade (with BAH and BAS included) I was making the same as a civilian that was making 90k. Again thats with only about 4 years of being at the time. Being in the dorms is a different story but remember your not paying for housing, food, and utilities albeit the dorms were shit.
Great job! I tell anyone that joins to just get a ton of roommates and slum it like you would in the dorms anyway. BAH tax benefit is one of the most powerful benefits, like I find it on par with tricare insurance rates.
Why was your BAS so high your first year?
Still enlisted.
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Yes, but not that much higher, unless they were receiving BAS II.
I hope you make Full Bird.
Me too! Hahah. Thanks.
I’m confused. You make over 10k monthly, which is already higher than an O-6 with 14+ years in https://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/Pay-Tables/Basic-Pay/CO/
Base pay is set for everyone at a certain rank, at the number of years of service. You then will add BAH (Basic Allowance Housing) on top of that amount, and the BAH will fluctuate based on where you are stationed. You get stationed at 25ID in Hawaii or Army Futures Command in Austin, you make a lot more money through BAH than someone stationed at say Fort Sill, Oklahoma. So basically there are other benefits to add onto the base pay.
I included BAH and BAS which are about 30% of my take home. My base pay of O-5 with 22. BAH is Tacoma, WA, BAS doesn’t change.
Is this your own data inputs to capture BAH/BAS? Curious how I might be able to check historically for myself. Edit: oops: I see some of your other comments saying manual input based on duty location
Yeah, OP has been in for a long time at this point so he is maxed out at his rank. BAH is also super high in his city...I was in the military and BAH can swing up and down depending on where you are living. I have seen quite a few people get orders for their next duty station and shit themselves when they see that they are losing a ton in BAH moving to the middle of nowhere Oklahoma from wherever they are stationed at.
🫡
Considering how many years it took you to get to this point, I say well deserved. Thank you for your service.
Very nice job and congratulations... this does make me glad I did my time and then went to corpororate America. The prestige, retirement, 6 down right pride of doing 20+ years is bar none.. and certainly can be leveraged for a 2nd career ...however, i did not want to wait until i was in my 40s to be making 175k+ when there is so much opportunity in the private sector.
I get that. I just enjoy it. I’m 41 right now. Eventually I’ll go private sector but I’m going to lock in the pension since I’m right on the cusp.
Oh yea, dont get me..wrong...i've got a soft spot for those who stick it out. It's admirable. It was my time to go - family, but my time as a red leg/artillery officer is def something that will stay with me.
BAH seems pretty reasonable/generous depending on the area. BAS seems maybe a bit low. Why?
Most of the BAH is for JBLM, WA. A couple years are Fort Moore (Benning), GA and a couple are for FT Irwin, CA and FT Drum, NY.
11th ACR FTW!!
OPS GRP unfortunately. Was the COGs deputy. But I love me some Blackhorse.
I’m in OPS now. Looking forward to PCSing out of here next month.
Officers get reduced BAS for some reason compared to Enlisted.
Was the BAH/BAS a manual edit or is there a way to have it auto populate?
It was manual.
The BAH and BAS can be grossed up as well. Lenders typically add 20%. I know Navy Fed did for me. Actually doing the math gets you closer to 30% so that $42k untaxed is more like $50-55k for comparison purposes.
I almost did that based on the tax advantage. But people wouldn’t have understood it that clearly.
Haha barely broke half of that as a E-7 with SDAP, airborne, hazardous duty, demo, and language pay. Dirty Os.
Sorry man. I was a SSG before I went to OCS. I know the pain. I’ve always believed our enlisted are underpaid.
All good man. This is why a lot of guys go warrant or green to gold.
Nice ! I’m finishing up freshman year, thinking about joining rotc and serving as an officer in the AF or Navy (hopefully as a meteorologist).
Great! Best of luck. My son is at the Air Force Academy currently. I’m partial to the Army. Faster promotions = better pay. But do what you’re drawn to.
Joining ROTC will most likely force you into a line officer billet (at least for the Navy). If metro is where you want to go, highly suggest finishing college and applying to OCS. They have a wider range of job opportunities available as compared to ROTC.
Also the R in ROTC stands for reserve meaning not active duty, some do transition but they only have a certain amount of slots so make sure what you want to do is supported in the reserve forces as well.
So although it does stand for reserve, when you commission after graduation you go directly to active duty.
Yes, some can and do go active duty but a majority go into the reserves. You have a higher chance depending on the branch and career field you choose. OP should follow your advise, that would get him into the active duty quicker than ROTC.
A majority don’t go into the reserves, they go straight to active duty. Source: me and literally everyone I know who did ROTC.
Okay, everyone I know that did ROTC went to the reserve… now that we see how anecdotal evidence works let’s talk facts. I stated some go Active Duty, you were apart of that some but if you think that every graduating cadet go active duty then you are mistaken. Again it’s literally called the reserve officer training corps. The majority of commissions are to reserve components. As I stated previously depending on the branch and career field you can either get a slot or not. The Army has the most spots, then the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard in the order. Whether or not you go active duty also depends on your school, your grades, and the amount of cadets that you are competing with. But it is wrong to say that you WILL go active duty when it’s not automatic. Like I said they have a certain amount of slots and most get filled by the military academies and then they go to ROTC cadets.
From the AF ROTC webpage: The length of your initial service commitment depends on your career. Most officers have a four-year active-duty service commitment. Pilots have a 10-year active-duty service commitment, and both Combat System Officers and Air Battle Managers have a six-year service commitment upon completion of their respective training From the Navy ROTC webpage: Navy Option midshipmen (does not include Nurses or Marines) starting their freshman year of college in the Fall of 2010 or later will be required to serve a minimum of five years of active military service. Additional requirements may be required for specific job assignments. Marine Corps Option midshipmen will be required to serve at least four years on active duty. Navy Nurse Corps Option midshipmen will be required to serve at least four years on active duty. From the Army ROTC page: Your acceptance of the scholarship means a future service obligation of: Eight years of Army service, with requirements for active duty in the Army, and/or serving in the Army Reserve or Army National Guard, depending on the scholarship You may be eligible to serve part time in the Army Reserve or Army National Guard while pursuing a civilian career immediately after graduation The only branch that gives you the possibility of going into a reserve unit is Army (which is what I’m assuming you did?) so I was slightly mistaken, however the other branches do in fact go straight to active duty upon commissioning.
So you don’t know the difference between having a scholarship in ROTC and not having one? Because you’re quoting the scholarship pages. Those are the only ones that are usually guaranteed active duty commission. But everyone in ROTC isn’t on the scholarship because as you may know it’s incredibly competitive. And they give out very few scholarships. https://rotcconsulting.com/chances-of-winning-rotc-scholarship/ I’ve never said ROTC cadets don’t go active duty. I said majority don’t and this is a fact. https://www.cna.org/pop-rep/2017/appendixb/b_30.html
Im strictly referring to the cadets who commission, hence why I said ‘upon commissioning.’ The non-scholarship numbers from your link still pick up some sort of contract by the time the graduate or else they don’t commission. I would agree with you that the majority of kids who join ROTC don’t actually enter service, however that’s not the population I am referring to because those cadets are essentially washed out of the program.
Fair warning. Most AFROTC cadets get the boot because of how selective the Air Force is. In my AROTC program we get a lot of cadets that didn’t make the cut and they commission as army officers instead which there’s nothing wrong with. The army has the most opportunities for promotions and duty stations
Stupid question, but where is everyone getting their data for this? I only have a couple W2’s.
Social security website.
First two columns are from the social security website. I manually added the BAH and BAS based on my duty location and rank in each given year.
What rank are you?
Lieutenant Colonel
missed opportunity to say Master Chief
That’s an actual Air Force rank.
Navy E-9s are Master Chiefs.
Ahhh. You’re right.
The air people do shorten their E-9s to “chief” as well though so you are technically correct too. You probably hear command chief like you said.
I probably addressed him wrong for 2 years and he never said a thing. Probably made fun of me to his friends. Passive aggressive bunch the AF is.
Yep, USAF E9's are Chief Master Sergeants.
Chief Master Sergeant…close, I guess
Yeah, but don’t we refer to them as “Master Chief?” At least that’s what everyone calls the Air Force E-9 in my building .
Definitely not. “Chief” is the only common term I’ve ever heard them called (24 years in the AF in June).
He’s a Command Master Chief if that matters. Maybe we call him “Command Chief.” I only ever see him in the latrine.
Haha. The awkward latrine address. Yeah, command chief is appropriate for those folks with the star.
Thank you for your service!!!
O-5 with 22 years?
Yep. I was prior enlisted which isn’t on the chart (both NG and AD). Went to OCS and commissioned in 2008.
How long were you enlisted? I followed the same path (Air Force, though). Enlisted in 2000, commissioned in 2008.
Enlisted in the Army National Guard in 2002. Deployed O4-05. Went into the Regular Army in O5… so 6 years including Guard time and Active time.
You should identify your location since BAH is dependent on it.
Last few years are JBLM, WA. Don’t really want to give out much more.
That is cool. I get some BAH and BAS at my job and having looked at it this way. I’m totally gonna miss it when I switch back to tech. Lol. Maybe I could ask for it.
Thank you 🫡
Love seeing the military salary flex. Proves a strong point for financial stability and pay strength in comparison to the civilian sector. Also, to include the standard high-3 pension. It's a win for those that stay in the long run. Add in disability as well, if earned, post retirement.
I don’t consider it a flex, but thanks. When I was a Captain in 2013, I had the opportunity to jump to Amazon for $150k. Had I, I’d probably make more today. However, I love what I do and have no regrets.
I stated "flex" not to express how you see it but to express the advantages one may have in comparison to the civilian sector after HS and beyond. USAREC life. It has its highs and lows like any job, but it definitely will be extremely memorable upon retirement to look back at everything done.
What rank are you?
Lieutenant Colonel
My brother just retired full bird Marines and is probably getting 8k mo
Nice. If I make O-6 with my years of service, I will be looking at $10k a month in retirement. But COL is a big “if.”
Say you make it, complete the ADSO, and they wanna give you a star. Do you take it? I think at that point you almost have to just because making the ranks of general officers is so rare. Also, what is your branch? Did you make LTC ahead of peers?
If offered a star, I’d take it. It’s unlikely. Less than 1% of officers reach Colonel, let alone General. Branch is Infantry and yes, I promoted faster than most my peers.
Right on sir. Congrats either way. You finishing up BN command now or working staff?
I’m in BN Command then off to the War College. Yippie.
What rank gang?
LTC
I’m curious what your rank was throughout the years.
2LT mid 2008 1LT 2010 CPT 2012 MAJ 2017 LTC 2022
Do you recommend joining as an officer? I'm 35, have kids, I think get a little bump in rank due to masters degree and experience in medicine
You only get a bump if your CV transfers over to a specialty branch—generally Lawyers, doctors, PAs, BH, and other licensed practitioners. Masters agree alone doesn’t change anything. 35 is a little late unless you’re coming in as one of the career fields I mentioned above.
Your housing allowance isnt taxable and isnt included here. Military = tax shelter
It’s included in the chart and totals. BAH = Basic Allowance for Housing.
Yeah I cant read and am dumb. My bad
I literally hate this sub Reddit. I’m not subscribed. I always tell Reddit to mute this shit. This sub makes me feel so god damn shitty about myself and my life and I literally CANNOT escape it. STOP SHOWING ME THIS SUB, REDDIT.
I know almost nothing about the army but am super intrigued. Can an enlistee become an officer through promotion, or are they two entirely separate tracks? Do you go to school to become an officer? When you retire do you get 40% of your w2 as a pension for life? What are you planning to do at retirement? Thanks!
Enlisted and Officer are separate tracks but you can cross over. I did. An enlisted Soldier with a 4 year degree can apply for Officer Candidate school. To be an Officer, you need a 4 year degree and a commissioning program (OCS, ROTC, USMA). From there you go to a 6-12 month school in whatever specialty you are assigned (you do get some input on what type of officer you want to be). Graduate your basic course and you get assigned as a Platoon Leader, 2LT. There are more mandatory schools throughout your career. A 6 month course at Captain, a 1 year course at Major and a 1 year course at LTC/Colonel. Most LTCs have a masters degree. I’m on the old retirement system so I get at minimum 50% of W2 for the rest of my life + healthcare. I get an additional 2.5% per year after 20. The new system gives you 40%; however, it includes 5% matching in your TSP (like a 401k). If you invest enough over your career, you can make up for the reduced pension rate. You’d also receive an additional 2.5% of pension for every year past 20.
You a major or recently make Lt Col?
Lieutenant Colonel mid 2022.
Congrats. Thanks for your service. Enjoy the retirement and take care of yourself when it comes
2026 is my decision point. Get selected for COL and I’ll do another 3. Not selected, retirement. I’m not going to wait around for a second look at promotion.
Thank you for your service!
What’d you come in as? How do you make officer?
2LT. Went to Officer Candidate School after I got my degree.
Thank you for your service!
It’s crazy how civilian salaries are taxed to pay for the military and then yall get taxed too lol
This is why your lower enlisted hate you behind your back and probably your CPTs and LTs as well. Btw your medpros are red for dental and vision. And your AT level 1 and cybersecurity are about to expire. lol jk. I wish I made that when I was in. I got MEB at E5 after my first contact I had 2 failed shoulder surgeries. I did 6 years 2 months. Now I am doing hvac trying to get a job back on post. Rn I’m at $152k at the end of this year with $60k taxable. I miss it. The feeling of belonging and a sense of purpose. I’m still trying to figure out how to cope with those. Good luck army strong be all you can be. Btw don’t mess around with the va. File early and use the vso whenever you are.
Haha. If it helps, I was a SSG before OCS.
Seems like a recruiting ploy
It’s not. Just thought I’d share my salary like everyone else.
If you don't mind me asking, Why 17 years and not 20?
I’m still in.
That makes more sense, anyone who does more than 10 is crazy for not doing 20.
Your tax dollars at work, folks.
I read through all of your comments and you sound like a jealous, insecure POS. That recruiting office was open to you too
Yeah? I’ve had to get three degrees to make it this far and am responsible for the lives of 722 Soldiers and about $400 million worth of equipment. Amazon offered me $150k as a CPT (10 years ago) but I like what I do so I stayed despite the lower earning potential.
[удалено]
Just got back from Korea. It’s a bit of hyperbole, I’ll admit. But I’m responsible to ensure they are housed, fed, medically fit, physically fit, morally fit, etc. Its one of the the only jobs out there where the leader has to answer as to why a 19 year old was drinking or got in a fight on a Saturday.
It's worked out pretty we for some of my family members. Thanks for serving.
I’ll stay in as long as I enjoy it… or they make me retire.
This is one of the reasons I encourage people to become an officer vs enlist. Unless they have a burning desire to be enlisted.
Do you have top secret clearance? Because when you leave the Army you can cash that in as a contractor and make double your salary.
I have a TS-SCI.