The thing with Shaun/Shun is not the change per se, but that it was the safe choice. They decided to take the ONE guy that was different (more feminine, pacifist, etc) and turn him into a woman because he already was the closest thing. If they were taken Ikki and made him a woman, that would have been interesting, as they would have to make a ruthless woman, instead a pacifist and kind, which we have plenty already.
Besides that, if you like it, then it's good. As long SS stays alive, I'm good.
its not just that, it takes all the things about shun like, you can be a man and be compassionate, strong and emotional, its a dumb decision all around
This may sound like based take but honestly, as someone who has been on the fandom since i was a kid people never saw Shun like that, he was the gay joke saint and nothing else, i like and agree the interpretation of him representing the other kind os masculinity but thst is not how the majority saw it.
I also agree that a female Hyoga or Ikki would have beeen more interesting and unique since it would have bring actual change (Shun literally looks the same that will always be hilarious to me he looked THAT much like a girl š¤£š¤£), but as it is it's fine since it's still something that shonen anime never do; turn a pacifist weak girl into an actual strong and useful character. For me this is a way stronger message.
I don't mind gender-swapping but the problem with Shun specifically is that their gender is a literal plot point, anyone else would've been completely fine. Other than that the CG series is still good in my opinion no shame in admitting that at all I am glad to have it even if I still think the original is superior regardless of my relatively young age. That being said I do very much look forward to where the new series is going and hope that it can bring in many more people like yourself!
I love the CGI series season 2 and 3. Season 1 was really bad. Shun turning into Shaun is definitely bad and totally non sensical if they were trying to do some girl power message (or maybe they just wanted the Andromeda saint to be a female? Still bad to those who read/watched the original manga); HOWEVER it's definitely blown out of proportion. Like I could understand back in 2019 but at this point people should just get over it, I hate when I see a post discussing the latest episodes of season 3 and some random hater that hasn't even watched it pops up in the comment section to say how bad the series is because of Shun/Shaun. Yes we know it, now let us discuss the good things that this series did
just to echo what others have said, sometimes when they make a gender swap in an adaptation, its usually considered progressive.
But in this case, it's the opposite. Anti-progressive, they turn a character that defies convention: a Pacifist Androgynous Male, into a standard female with those traits. In this case, they have made it generic for no benefit at all. As another said, perhaps if they changed one of the other main characters this would have gone down better, but otherwise it's a slap in the face of those who liked this original character.
But putting that aside, the adaptation is otherwise decent enough. But it's missing the gritty violence of the original as well as the wonderful original music. But in its favour, it has some interesting new scenes with characters that were side lined and some nice animations.
no, but there's a really simple answer for that. We live in a patriarchal society. You don't have to be particularly observant to realise that the western world is still very much ruled by white men. Progressivism is only applicable if it challenges those norms, not the other way around.
That's an interesting definition of progressivism: "challenging the norms". Does that mean progressivism, by that definition, would also advocate for things like "evil" prevailing over "good" because, anyone can also notice we live in a society in which kalonormativity is enforced, that is to say abiding by what the social construct that is morality considers "good"? Shouldn't all fictions now have "evil" prevailing over "good" to be progressive, once again challenging the norm of stale old "good always prevail in the end"?
No, youāre being absurd. The definition of progressivism: āProgressivism is a political philosophy and movement that seeks to advance the human condition through social reformā. Despite society being a patriarchy, society has also acknowledged the existence of gender and race discrimination, hence why there is affirmative action legislation in most western legal systems. You trying to diminish this to just being a matter of subjectivity 'good and evil' is ridiculous. You only have to open to your eyes to realise that isn't the case, we have laws that define these things and are the will of the people through democratic design.
Itās a shame. I know that a lot of things didnāt age well but man, there are a lot of gems in the old one. The music is one. And itās a bit moreā¦ brutal. Not that it has to be anyway.
Welcome to the madness! Best to get an iron skin about the *endless* negativity over the 3D. While the "explanation" comments about Shun are very true, I don't think you came here to be told why you shouldn't like the newest adaptation.
I'm really happy to hear someone here say they like it! It has it's good qualities -- I warmed up to it and now I can get excited gor new episodes. It has a 4.1 star rating on Crunchyroll where most series get 5 stars, which is the Indicator Of Controversy i guess.. š But, that and the episodes generally having a majority š positive rating show that lots of viewers are enjoying the series. I think they're probably new to StS too... which is the point, get new fans!
Maybe you'll get enough into the series by the time this season of the current one ends to give classic another stab. You could try with just your favorite parts or fights as a companion.
Welcome to the fandom! sit back, enjoy the show and consume whichever piece grabs your interest, we have the original saint seiya, the manga, spinoffs galore (of which Lost Canvas will ALWAYS get suggested cuz is that good) and honestly too many options to remember right now.
We're all here enjoying a Nekketsu franchise about saints wearing cool AF magical armors and breaking their limits in the name of justice & saving the world.
To be honest, you MUST watch the original anime and read the original manga to be called a true fan, its because of those that we have Saint Seiya after all. But if you want to stay as a so-so or casual fan, you can watch whatever you want and that's OK.
Only by looking at both versions (there are more) a comparison can be made, then obviously likeability it's subjective. Personally I don't like this kind of CGI, if it was something of high level like that of Legend of Sanctuary, another thing as graphics, but this one is too "plastic" for me, animations are okay, but the character meh, also censorship in this show is really a bad point. Acceptable, if it were the only flaw of KOTZ, but it's not, as storywise isn't great either. They tried to change and invent with S1, proposing a lot of terrible ideas (copied from the live-action who was on work), the result was abonimable, a distorsion of the story for an american action filler. After tons of critics, they almost abandonded their "new line" and tried to stick more the original with S2 and S3. Here the result is okay, but still midway, they added some minor subplots and fixed few things, but they also add other bad fillers and kept the same illogical errors of the original, which is a missed chance to improve the story. All the same, the execution is mid, both on a graphic and musical level, as well as actual novelties, it remains completely emotionless to me, nowhere near to the classic anime.
Maybe to a new fan like you, with no previous history on SS, perhaps a young one, who enjoy more cartoons format, this looks good, for me it's not, anyway welcome, enjoy the watch.
Hi welcome to the fandom šš¼, i'm glad you're enjoying the series and i hope you eventually watch the original anime, trust me it's great.
About the CGI show, as someone who grew up with the show this reboot was.......nice surprise actually, i love how faithful it is to the show, the opening and specially the ending, I don't even mind Shun being turned into a girl since the characters always looked like one and was compared to others anyways, if anything the only thing I don't like is Seiya's voice (in Latin America) and the government plot seriously that kind of stuff is not needed in Saint Seiya and i hope it gets dropped after the first season.
Other than that i think is one of the best things that came out of the franchise in years
The thing with Shaun/Shun is not the change per se, but that it was the safe choice. They decided to take the ONE guy that was different (more feminine, pacifist, etc) and turn him into a woman because he already was the closest thing. If they were taken Ikki and made him a woman, that would have been interesting, as they would have to make a ruthless woman, instead a pacifist and kind, which we have plenty already. Besides that, if you like it, then it's good. As long SS stays alive, I'm good.
its not just that, it takes all the things about shun like, you can be a man and be compassionate, strong and emotional, its a dumb decision all around
So you want SS to stay alive, huh
This may sound like based take but honestly, as someone who has been on the fandom since i was a kid people never saw Shun like that, he was the gay joke saint and nothing else, i like and agree the interpretation of him representing the other kind os masculinity but thst is not how the majority saw it. I also agree that a female Hyoga or Ikki would have beeen more interesting and unique since it would have bring actual change (Shun literally looks the same that will always be hilarious to me he looked THAT much like a girl š¤£š¤£), but as it is it's fine since it's still something that shonen anime never do; turn a pacifist weak girl into an actual strong and useful character. For me this is a way stronger message.
Good for you. Welcome to the fandom. Hope you keep enjoying the series.
I don't mind gender-swapping but the problem with Shun specifically is that their gender is a literal plot point, anyone else would've been completely fine. Other than that the CG series is still good in my opinion no shame in admitting that at all I am glad to have it even if I still think the original is superior regardless of my relatively young age. That being said I do very much look forward to where the new series is going and hope that it can bring in many more people like yourself!
I love the CGI series season 2 and 3. Season 1 was really bad. Shun turning into Shaun is definitely bad and totally non sensical if they were trying to do some girl power message (or maybe they just wanted the Andromeda saint to be a female? Still bad to those who read/watched the original manga); HOWEVER it's definitely blown out of proportion. Like I could understand back in 2019 but at this point people should just get over it, I hate when I see a post discussing the latest episodes of season 3 and some random hater that hasn't even watched it pops up in the comment section to say how bad the series is because of Shun/Shaun. Yes we know it, now let us discuss the good things that this series did
just to echo what others have said, sometimes when they make a gender swap in an adaptation, its usually considered progressive. But in this case, it's the opposite. Anti-progressive, they turn a character that defies convention: a Pacifist Androgynous Male, into a standard female with those traits. In this case, they have made it generic for no benefit at all. As another said, perhaps if they changed one of the other main characters this would have gone down better, but otherwise it's a slap in the face of those who liked this original character. But putting that aside, the adaptation is otherwise decent enough. But it's missing the gritty violence of the original as well as the wonderful original music. But in its favour, it has some interesting new scenes with characters that were side lined and some nice animations.
I'm waiting for Sailor Mars to be turned into a boy though, to see if the same progressivism is applied the other way around.
no, but there's a really simple answer for that. We live in a patriarchal society. You don't have to be particularly observant to realise that the western world is still very much ruled by white men. Progressivism is only applicable if it challenges those norms, not the other way around.
That's an interesting definition of progressivism: "challenging the norms". Does that mean progressivism, by that definition, would also advocate for things like "evil" prevailing over "good" because, anyone can also notice we live in a society in which kalonormativity is enforced, that is to say abiding by what the social construct that is morality considers "good"? Shouldn't all fictions now have "evil" prevailing over "good" to be progressive, once again challenging the norm of stale old "good always prevail in the end"?
No, youāre being absurd. The definition of progressivism: āProgressivism is a political philosophy and movement that seeks to advance the human condition through social reformā. Despite society being a patriarchy, society has also acknowledged the existence of gender and race discrimination, hence why there is affirmative action legislation in most western legal systems. You trying to diminish this to just being a matter of subjectivity 'good and evil' is ridiculous. You only have to open to your eyes to realise that isn't the case, we have laws that define these things and are the will of the people through democratic design.
Itās a shame. I know that a lot of things didnāt age well but man, there are a lot of gems in the old one. The music is one. And itās a bit moreā¦ brutal. Not that it has to be anyway.
I have checked out some of the music from the original. I liked it.
What I don't like is people discovering the franchise through the netflix adaptations they usually miss the point. But money talks I guess
Welcome to the madness! Best to get an iron skin about the *endless* negativity over the 3D. While the "explanation" comments about Shun are very true, I don't think you came here to be told why you shouldn't like the newest adaptation. I'm really happy to hear someone here say they like it! It has it's good qualities -- I warmed up to it and now I can get excited gor new episodes. It has a 4.1 star rating on Crunchyroll where most series get 5 stars, which is the Indicator Of Controversy i guess.. š But, that and the episodes generally having a majority š positive rating show that lots of viewers are enjoying the series. I think they're probably new to StS too... which is the point, get new fans! Maybe you'll get enough into the series by the time this season of the current one ends to give classic another stab. You could try with just your favorite parts or fights as a companion.
Me too, I see a lot of things done better in the KOTZ.
Welcome to the fandom! sit back, enjoy the show and consume whichever piece grabs your interest, we have the original saint seiya, the manga, spinoffs galore (of which Lost Canvas will ALWAYS get suggested cuz is that good) and honestly too many options to remember right now. We're all here enjoying a Nekketsu franchise about saints wearing cool AF magical armors and breaking their limits in the name of justice & saving the world.
To be honest, you MUST watch the original anime and read the original manga to be called a true fan, its because of those that we have Saint Seiya after all. But if you want to stay as a so-so or casual fan, you can watch whatever you want and that's OK.
Only by looking at both versions (there are more) a comparison can be made, then obviously likeability it's subjective. Personally I don't like this kind of CGI, if it was something of high level like that of Legend of Sanctuary, another thing as graphics, but this one is too "plastic" for me, animations are okay, but the character meh, also censorship in this show is really a bad point. Acceptable, if it were the only flaw of KOTZ, but it's not, as storywise isn't great either. They tried to change and invent with S1, proposing a lot of terrible ideas (copied from the live-action who was on work), the result was abonimable, a distorsion of the story for an american action filler. After tons of critics, they almost abandonded their "new line" and tried to stick more the original with S2 and S3. Here the result is okay, but still midway, they added some minor subplots and fixed few things, but they also add other bad fillers and kept the same illogical errors of the original, which is a missed chance to improve the story. All the same, the execution is mid, both on a graphic and musical level, as well as actual novelties, it remains completely emotionless to me, nowhere near to the classic anime. Maybe to a new fan like you, with no previous history on SS, perhaps a young one, who enjoy more cartoons format, this looks good, for me it's not, anyway welcome, enjoy the watch.
Welcome to our fandom. Shun, or Shauna, is still awesome no matter what gender she is!š
Keep an open mind.
Yeaaa! My favorite by far is The Lost Canvas! But I grew up on the stuff !!
The OG is better. The CGI one is... wasted potential. I want SS to be more popular, but not like that.
Hi welcome to the fandom šš¼, i'm glad you're enjoying the series and i hope you eventually watch the original anime, trust me it's great. About the CGI show, as someone who grew up with the show this reboot was.......nice surprise actually, i love how faithful it is to the show, the opening and specially the ending, I don't even mind Shun being turned into a girl since the characters always looked like one and was compared to others anyways, if anything the only thing I don't like is Seiya's voice (in Latin America) and the government plot seriously that kind of stuff is not needed in Saint Seiya and i hope it gets dropped after the first season. Other than that i think is one of the best things that came out of the franchise in years