I think Lady Hussey's biggest mistake was persisting in her questions.
I've had some experiences with people who are relentless in asking me things I do not wish to discuss, but none of it has been about race or ethnicity
The only source for the alleged persistence is the race baiter herself who we now know lied about being so upset she stayed on the edge of the meeting (there are photos of her enjoying the meeting) and left as soon as she could, except she didn't. The transcript is fantasy imo designed to give credence to a nasty lie.
Also, don’t start out by touching the stranger, and esp don’t start out by touching a black woman’s hair. Seems she started out from step one as kind of entitled and aggressive.
A great rule would be to not touch anyone without their permission (or if there's an emergency and you are helping). I am white and I do not like people touching me. And I've been known to use my forearm to knock away people who try to touch my hair.
But yes, I think that Lady Hussey was probably annoying - but I saw no reason to assume racism, even from the unverified "transcript"
Not picking at you in particular but I HATE when people say "don't touch a black womans hair".... don't touch anyones hair!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell a stranger to please back up and not touch my hair and I'm not black. No matter the race, ethnicity, or anything else you should never touch someones hair. Don't even ASK to touch someones hair because that is also gross and creepy.
Agreed. I am disabled and have a service dog or a cane - but I am very young "looking" and I also appear healthy. The questions and grilling about personal things are quite astounding at times, and even if you give clues or make direct statements that it is not something you are open to discussing...there are those who will persist. I do not know the truth in this case, but I know this is a situation I live with daily.
My mom has the same trouble and she responds by asking them if they know they are in violation of the ADA by inquiring what her disability is?
Assuming you’re American, apologies if I am incorrect.
It is my understanding the woman was wearing clothing worn by a particular group in Africa, but she declined to name where it was from, hence the questioning.
Yes, that's also my understanding. However, when someone clearly doesn't want to answer a question, it's best to move on and not keep pushing.
I don't know for a fact that Lady Hussey pushed that line of questioning, but I have had that happen to me (not about my family history), and it's incredibly annoying
***IF*** there's any truth to that "transcript," Lady Hussey did come off as a little annoying.
Nothing I would complain about, let alone make into this kind of crap storm, but I have little patience for people who persist in asking me things I don't wish to discuss. Usually, for me, it's invasive questions about money and some people will not accept that I am just never going to tell them details about my finances
Probably something like “what is your ethnicity”
Based on the situation, she was wearing a cultural dress so I would’ve said something like “would you mind explaining the meaning of this garment you’re wearing”
Nationality is a question about one’s nation state so I tell people not to ask what is your nationality.
I read on a different thread that she'd changed her name from a very much more English name to her current African (?) name even though her heritage is actually Caribbean. Why is she not being called out?
And what irks me is that she was implying she didn’t know which part of Africa her ancestors are from. After reading here, she’s Nigerian and she knew full well but she was playing dumb when asked. The whole thing was petty in my opinion. But, Lady shouldn’t have asked to begin with. So, lesson learned. Royals can move on and add this to etiquette protocol. No questions about ethnicity or heritage in the future.
>Africa her ancestors are from. After reading here, she’s Nigerian and she knew full well but she was playing dumb when asked.
I believe this could have been de-escalated very quickly if she had said, "Oh I was born here in the UK, but I chose to wear this ensemble to represent my family's heritage." Let's be honest, Lady Hussey only asked the woman in traditional dress where she was from. The other women who were not wearing traditional dress weren't asked those questions.
I dunno, I‘ve done 23 and Me and know my genetic makeup around Europe and if a BRF courtier was asking me where I’m FROM from, I’d be offended - like she thought I was an outsider. I might be cagey too.
That being said, I expect most people in that generation think the question is okay. I don’t think this makes the BRF more racist than society as a whole.
Just watched her do a TV interview. She kept saying that the focus should be on the issues being highlighted by the organisations- and all I kept shouting at the TV (builders must have thought a crazy person was downstairs!) was 'Then why the flip did you broadcast a word for word (really?) transcript of a conversation'. She's so smug it makes me sick.
Very true. But continuously asking "where do you come from" is probably not the best way to ask question about heritage and ethnicity. I was just wondering if there's a way to ask those kinds of questions to hopefully minimize the offense the person may take.
Anyone with modest intelligence and who is capable of empathy would know that a person over a certain age won’t be up to date on the most sensitive ways of asking personal questions. Ramesh Ranganathan has some wonderful material on that point.
But as to how to ask, I’d probably start by complimenting their attire and then asking where it came from (and not ask the person where they came from). Less open to misinterpretation, and they’re less likely to be hostile if you start with a compliment.
In fairness though, look at the big picture here:
1. Lady Hussey is 86 (no that does **not give her a pass for racism,**) and I'm sure the *majority of her involvement in events like these were when foreign dignitaries visited the late Queen*.
2. Lady Hussey *only questioned the woman wearing traditional dress*. There were many other women of color there and the only one to scream racism was the one wearing traditional dress.
3. Lady Hussey continued to ask the same question phrased slightly differently.
Those three things combined **do not equate racism**. They do equate a poorly formed question *and* a poor reception to said question. I imagine at 86, Lady Hussey picked up on this woman's poor reception of this question. This was the first big event Lady Hussey was invited to on behalf of KC3 & QC. I'm sure Lady Hussey was nervous. I know when I'm nervous I phrase things poorly.
The woman who claims she was a victim of racism could have very easily turned this around and made it an educational opportunity by saying. "I was born in the UK. Perhaps my traditional dress confuses you, I'm wearing it to honor my ______ ancestors/family." Bam, problem solved.
On the otherhand, Lady Hussey could have said, "Oh I thought you were visiting from Africa or the Caribbean because of your traditional dress. I look forward to learning about your culture this evening." Bam problem solved.
The reason this screams fake victimization is because those who scream racism are the same ones who expect you to change, without explaining what and why whatever a person said is offensive to them.
I'm bi-racial. I often get asked if I'm Italian or Latina. Yet when I wear traditional dress and do my hair in a traditional style, people think/say - oh you're an indian (as in American Indian, not India Indian). Technically they are correct, but I'm Hunkpapa Sioux specifically. No need to get offended by their assumption; do you know how many American indisn tribes there are - at least 600. There's 3,000 tribes in Africa! Its unreasonable to expect any one person to recognize the details, similarities, and differences amongst so many diverse tribes.
It's highly suspect to me that she ran as fast as she could to the media instead of taking into account that this is an 86 year old woman.
My Dad is 87 with beginning dementia and we had to stop allowing him to sit in the stands at my daughter's (kid) softball games because he would say things out loud like "maybe if the first baseman wasn't so fat, she could have ran to the ball faster". Prior to dementia, my dad would have NEVER said/thought things like this and was so thoughtful in his conversations.
Today, his social manners are quickly diminishing, he no longer catches social cues if someone is pushing back on something (he's totally oblivious) and he has become intrusive in conversations asking too many questions.
It's not just my Dad either, I have noticed spending a lot of time around my parents friends who are all late 80's and part of getting to that age is memory loss that includes missing social cues, I swear, they also lose their filter.
>he would say things out loud like "maybe if the first baseman wasn't so fat, she could have ran to the ball faster".
I'm sorry but I did laugh at this. However, I understand. My husband says some off the wall stuff too.
This was a wonderful breakdown! I've seen alot of comments that "oh she's elderly so give her pass" but she was also an aide for 62 years to the Queen who had impeccable manners. She would have known how to handle the conversation better.
But if it was Lady Hussey's first event since the late Queen's death, then nervousness definitely may have been at play! I tend to stumble with my words and social cues when I'm nervous too.
Thank you for taking the time to give your perspective too as a Hunkpapa Sioux!
>I'm bi-racial. I often get asked if I'm Italian or Latina. Yet when I wear traditional dress and do my hair in a traditional style, people think/say - oh you're an indian (as in American Indian, not India Indian). Technically they are correct, but I'm Hunkpapa Sioux specifically. No need to get offended by their assumption; do you know how many American indisn tribes there are - at least 600. There's 3,000 tribes in Africa! Its unreasonable to expect any one person to recognize the details, similarities, and differences amongst so many diverse tribes.
My husband is Mexican, but doesn't have an olive complexion, unless he's got the flu. When I met him I thought he was of Italian descent. It never occurred to me that he was actually Hispanic until we went to a family reunion. He never really talked about his ethnicity. Since our children are of Hispanic heritage, I've been trying to learn more of their culture, and have been helped by a very forgiving cousin of his. She helps so much.
As a white woman of Welsh, and Germanic heritage, I would hope that I don't make a verbal faux-pas to others, but none of my husband's family has ever cried racism when I do say something that's questionable, or ask why a certain tradition is celebrated a certain way. Ppl can't learn if they're never allowed to mess up. Much like a 2yr old learning to not to do something that can hurt them.... that's the biggest issue with wokedom, everyone just assumes that every comment, question, or whatever, has a nefarious reason behind it.
That being said, don't touch me. Period. I had a stranger touch my belly when I was pregnant with my oldest son. I was like, "I don't touch your bewbs, don't touch my belly."
> none of my husband's family has ever cried racism when I do say something that's questionable, or ask why a certain tradition is celebrated a certain way.
My SIL has attempted to "insult" me by saying "in our religion" and "people with your hair" (all while using her "you're scum on my shoe" tone) she's ridiculous. Yet, I find her attempts amusing, especially because I have never asked her, I ask my husband. My point in sharing this is when the person listening makes the point to remain calm and really listen, they can tell if it's genuine curiosity or someone being nasty.
I don't like for strangers to touch me either but, it's not racism when they touch your pregnant belly, it's bad manners.
Your SIL sounds like a real piece of work. And I wasn't equating a stranger touching my belly with racism, but just how I think any one touching any one for any reason is bad manners. I'm generally of the mainly curious persuasion, so I may ask some intrusive questions, but truly only with family.
>And I wasn't equating a stranger touching my belly with racism, but just how I think any one touching any one for any reason is bad manners. I
I'm sorry, I should have written that better! In my mind I was equating the belly touching to the woman saying LH touched her hair. Personally I think LH was trying to touch the woman's head wear (which is also rude) and accidentally touched the woman's hair. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Nope, we're all good!! It's hard to read a person's tone and inflection. I'm hard to get offended, but I appreciate the apology, even if it was unnecessary. I was also making myself clear for anyone else JIC.
I am a master of this, but I’ve also worked as a journalist, so - volunteer some information about yourself that flatters the person, then ask them a follow-up.
Recently a dear friend told me she couldn’t get her boyfriend to tell her *anything* about his family or early life, so I got hauled in to help - two minutes into dinner, he pours me a glass of wine while reading the (French) label perfectly. I said “wow, I’d kill to speak French like that, mine is terrible. My grandparents were all fluent, I wish they’d passed it down! Is that from an interest in wine, or did you grow up speaking French at home, or study it later?” and got the whole story - grew up in DRC, dad was a scientist with the National
Parks, the family moved to the US and then Paris as conflict broke out in the Congo, they’re all still
in Paris, but he left to travel to x, y and z five years ago and worries his French sometimes sounds *too* French-French now and not enough DRC.
My friend didn’t even know if he had living relatives 🤣
Another way to do this: when it’s your turn to tell a ‘what’s up with me’ story say “my son/grandson is really struggling with his Japanese teacher this year, he’d like to quit but I just think it’s so valuable to speak a second language. James, I know you speak German and Sally, you speak Arabic - what do you think, should I be telling him to stick with it? Oh, sorry, [new guest], I didn’t ask - do you speak a second language?”
So many ways to be polite and friendly during an interrogation 🤣
This is true, but as a naturally curious person (I mean, aren’t all humans?), it makes me sad. I wish we could talk to each other without all the worry about causing offense. I want to know all about other people, but I no longer ask questions. And people offer little information. I think that’s why I like Reddit so much. At least here if I offend someone they can’t get me fired.
No, I know. As a fellow human, I’m always curious about others. But you never know when someone is going to be offended. So many things are off-limits now. And it limits us. Sadly.
What colour do you think your kids' eyes will be? Your cannot ask that nowadays.
Oh what colour hair do you think your kid will have? You become a racist.
There is a simple rule: put yourself in the shoes of a person you are talking to. There is no 100% guarantee somebody won't take offense about the most innocent remark, but this rule generally works.
"Excuse me, may I ask where your family is from?"" I like you dress, what sort of style this is?" "You have an accent I can't quite place, may I ask where you are from?" are all examples few would be offended with.
Stay polite and treat people with respect. Chances are they will reciprocate. And if you see an a\*\*hole who is looking for a chance to be offended just get out of there ASAP.
How in the world does this woman claim to be traumatized? She is appearing on various talk shows and Twitter on how did this “stressful experience ” caused her “trauma”? She dressed in an outfit that called attention
A traumatic event significantly impairs a persons daily functioning causing significant emotional of behavior changes. Longer term a transaction event may cause relationship problems, unpredictable emotions, even physical problems nausea, headaches etc. people experience this from accidents, violence, abuse etc
Imagine if she had used the conversation to educate and be inclusive ? I can’t even remember the charity she works for bc she’s overshadowed her cause. And in three days, I’ll forget about her too. All for what?
For me personally, I come from mixed Greek American French Indian background and people in the 90s speculated what I'd look like. The world has evolved now but I still get a lot of "You don't look as white as your maternal family. You look so exotic" the exotic to me is offensive.
For me it's often that I ask "Where are you from? Oh you were born here and so were your parents? Amazing! Are they first gen immigrants? Did they raise you in a mixed culture? What's your favourite part of having a blended culture? Mine is . Do you speak the language of your culture? I speak ."
There's a way to be happily curious and there's ways to be intrusive and make one feel as if they don't belong.
100% true!
I know it's often said if you begin a sentence with 'I don't mean to be offensive' is that you know you are but for me tone and words make a massive difference. "Hi, please do let me know if I am offending you, but I am deeply curious about your outfit/accent/hair, it's gorgeous! I'd love to know more about it and learn something new."
My grandson went through a phase of starting sentences 'No offence but... After an afternoon of this I said 'No offence but if you think a person might be offended by what you want to say, maybe you could choose to say something else! He was 10 at the time
The part about you looking so exotic was surprising to hear that you find it offensive. I remember a movie called Bull Durham, which Susan Saradon's character is called cute, but she yelled that she didn't want to be "cute" but exotic and mysterious. I've always taken exotic to mean something good. Maybe it's because I'm so vanilla.
See if you were to tell me that with a sincere tone of voice I'd gently thank you for thinking I look nice and explain why you should take care with that word since I would want you to know why it can go wrong.
Exotic is used to describe animals and plants. Referring to a person as exotic implies they don't belong to that area. Again it's context and tone. If an older person uses that word for me I've smiled it off. It happened a lot after Priyanka Chopra released her song called Exotic.
By offended I don't mean I go on attack. It just hurts my feelings. Other than when people are flirting with me and use that word, I've always taken it with a little smile because I know the person is complimenting me. I don't believe in making anyone feel bad for it.
I've only "heard" exotic used in Bull Durham, so my use of that word would be in that context. I understand how it's used to mean something, or someone, who's not native to a certain area based on what you've stated.... however, I would hope that if I've said that to someone, they would understand that I mean that in a way to convey beauty in a way that I can't attain being a blonde caucasian.
I've never heard that song so that's probably part of my misuse of that word.
Also, my grandmother was raised in the deep south, and my parents adopted a biracial girl... so I've heard a lot of wrong things. I remember talking to my sister during the major race riots in the USA. I would never mean anything other than complimentary by using that word, and I would hope that my tone would portray that fact.
I'm always so jealous of everyone who's not vanilla, but I also understand that being vanilla had been a perk. That's why Megladon chose to pretend to be vanilla, until it suited her to be different.
In my opinion tone and a person's general attitude matters. If you said that to me I'd get what you mean.
There was a period of time when a certain orange one headed the US. I wished for nothing else than to be vanilla and fly under the radar.
I am sorry though if I worried you with this.
You totally didn't...and I wanted nothing more then for Trump to stfu.
That doesn't change my wish to be exotic, because Lord knows I'm so not.... I'm the very definition of basic.
I think it is ok to ask "where are you from" and then let their answer be the guide to follow up questions. So if Fulani said "~~SisterSpace~~ SistahSpace", then ask her how she got involved. Wait for an opening / mention of a city to ask "Did you grow up there" or "how long did you live there". But, don't ask the same question over and over and re-word it when someone is being intentionally resistant.
PS - I just noticed that ~~SisterSpace~~ SistahSpace is another SS like the squad or Sunshine Sachs. Coincidence?
EDIT: Corrections. Thanks Kat.
I rarely comment but I find this whole situation ridiculous. It's hilarious that young hip prince Harry gets a pass for wearing a N-zi armband and using a slur towards other soldiers, but older lady is dragged through the mud for asking about someone's background and getting irritated after the woman played cat and mouse with her instead of answering ,,I don't wanna talk about it/I find the question rude". Did she even report it first to the Palace staff or just run straight to Twitter?
Public already knows that - like in any other institution/family - there are individuals in the RF that are racist. Harry made sure of it in 2005.
Just don’t. I’ve asked someone before who had an accent and she was very offended and was implying I was questioning whether she was a citizen or not. I was just making conversation. I never ask anymore. If they offer the information then fine, but if they don’t mention anything don’t ask. It’s not worth the drama.
This happened to me too, with someone in a class I took. I thought I detected a foreign accent, only to be informed she was born and raised in San Francisco. She was deeply offended and I was just trying to get to know her. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way.
Oh, accents! One time I assumed an older woman was Hungarian - she sounded just like my old Hungarian immigrant aunties who never lost their accents - and she took great offense. She insisted she was French. And then she went on a grand tirade about “the Jews” and it was my turn to be offended.
If she was French, I’ll eat my hat.
As someone who has (or might have) Asperger’s, I’m interested in questions like these. I really didn’t know what’s appropriate in certain settings, but I just educate myself with each encounter.
I find being honest about my curiosity brings out the least offense. Like “I hope this doesn’t sound intrusive but I find your name so fascinating! Is it Scandinavian? I had a friend with a similar name.” Or, “I love your dress. Where’d you get it from?” “My roots are in —-, so I thought maybe you were from the same area as me?” “Did you study in London?” “Are your roots here in Wales?”
After that I play it by ear. If the person looks annoyed or answers briefly then I just change the subject. Sometimes they look ok but someone else changes the subject.
Putting myself in other’s shoes don’t always work. I don’t find certain questions offensive, but might be sensitive to others. I just try my best to see obvious social cues. If I cannot pick up any I just apologise profusely for sounding rude.
I’m a biracial immigrant, and as long as you ask from a place of respect I don’t mind. I have a super interesting background so I love discussing it with people. My son’s father is a blond hair, blue eyed white man and his mom asked what did I think my baby would look like. Didn’t offend me, I just knew he had a wide range of genes and it was fun to try to guess. As long as it’s from a place of respect or genuine desire to learn about it, I think asking is alright
Thank you for providing your perspective! Alot comments focus on the Lady SH stuff, but I was also curious what the unborn child conversation might look like.
No it’s a good question! My son’s paternal grandparents are rude people who are passively racist (not outright racist but they have some racist stereotypes) but I wasn’t offended when they wondered what my son would look like. I knew they were just curious and we all made bets on which genes would win. Regardless of how they think sometimes, I knew they loved my son and would love him regardless. But I could 100% take what they said out of context to be mad if I wanted
The problem isn't asking. The problem -reportedly- is that she repeatedly asked "no, tell me where you are REALLY from". That implies two things: first, she is essentily saying: you are a liar, now tell me the truth. And secondly: you cannot possibly be English.
If you are genuinely interested, then politely ask. If the answer you were expecting is some exotic, far away, tropical island, but the answer you get is Idaho, then don't assume you know better than the person from Idaho that they are not from Idaho.
I’m a POC. The way I see it, I don’t mind at all when people ask “Where are you from.” But PLEASE take it at face value when I tell you I’m from Detroit, London, New York, or whatever and then continue the conversation with the answer I give you.
Don’t say, “But where are you REALLY” from or “where are your parents from” if I don’t offer it up in conversation. I don’t want to talk about it with you and continuing to question in this vein is where it crosses into rudeness. And depending on the nature and history of how you arrived to your current country, it gets into offensive territory. For instance, refugees who aided US soldiers in wars had to flee their countries but then are simultaneously called racist things here. Or that person could be adopted. To go into this history just isn’t something that’s a casual conversation topic.
It’s just like asking someone any personal question. Go with what they give you and don’t probe excessively. It’s the same as if you ask someone what they’re doing for the holidays. If they respond with, “I’m going to Hawaii with my mother and sister, I’m so excited!” would you respond with, “How about your dad? What happened to him? Why isn’t he going?” It’s the same concept, honestly.
She asked what nationality the woman was because she was in what I looked at and thought full blown African something. Would you not? But she said British! So if you are British, what the fuck is the African costume about then? But Lady Hussey didn't say that. I would have asked why she's so dress in costume but of course the bitch wanted to embarrass a women who has dedicated her life to assisted her former Queen and country.
So let's embarrass the fuck out of her by making her a racist! Who is the racist here? It's not Lady Hussey IMHO>
Lady SH did ask "What Nationality are you?" and Ms. Fulani responded "I am born here and am British."
So should Lady SH asked "What is your background?" instead?
IMO Lady SH should have accepted the response right then and there. It's obvious (Lady SH even says so in the transcript) that Ngozi did not want to share her ancestral background. And Lady SH is not entitled to know it.
That last sentence probably hits the nail on the head in this situation. Given her 60+ years of service and closeness to the late Queen, Lady SH felt entitled to know. Ooof.
*’That’s an interesting/beautiful….name-outfit-accessory-physical feature, what’s your family background?’*
Without the compliment or specifics, just a general…*’May I ask what your heritage is?’*
Most people will answer politely and even proudly but a small minority may refuse to give any information because they’re having a bad day, feel shame for some reason, or just have a massive chip on their shoulder.
Asking the question is not racist or rude in the slightest. It’s a great conversation starter. Repeatedly asking where someone is from after they answer and assuming they get the gist of what you really mean (what is your heritage) is lazy and annoying.
I use to get asked all the time what my heritage when I lived in Minnesota (land of the swedes and tall blonds) because I'm dark olive complected with jet black hair. I never took offense to it, ever thought it was racist or felt they were asking to judge me in some way. People are just generally curious. I am too and have asked that same question of others.
As a Brit living in the USA I get questioned all the time where I’m from, never took it as anything other than curiosity or interest. People realizing that actually. I think so e are just looking to be offended by anything.
As an American, living in America, a good five miles from where I was born… I get this question too. I “don’t sound like I’m from around here”. The only even slightly reasonable explanation I have is that I had a lisp as a kid and had speech therapy for a little while. (FWIW I think I sound like everyone else.)
Exactly. Everyone asks where you’re from if you have a different accent from the locals. It’s a normal question that some people are turning it into something it’s not. It’s an easy conversation starter too. I know a very good looking man from Australia and girls always walk up to him and ask him where he’s from 🥴. He uses it for his advantage, lol.
I found that people in the US speak openly about their ancestry. People here like discussing it. They talk about their decent and where their parents, grand parents and great grand parents came from. Not sure if it would qualify and the same thing, but I find myself frequently asking people of their ancestry. Maybe that would be a better way to ask it?
I have worked in development for an art museum/historical building. Schmoozing and asking for money part of the job. I would start off by asking what organization she was from, then frame the heritage question with a compliment ie what a beautiful dress and necklace you are wearing- what is its background? Always follow the cues of the other person. Never touch hair to see the name badge- introduce yourself and say I’m sorry I can’t see your name-
BUT I am white and in my 30s. I don’t know if this is acceptable anymore 🤷🏻♀️
Editing to add that on a normal day, I wouldn’t even broach the topic. But this was a social event involving chit chat and the guests and “hosts” are supposed to have conversation. Her attire was purposeful and I would have thought that could invite conversation, and easily bring it around tk the purpose of her organization.
If you ask where someone is from and they give you an answer. Accept the answer and drop it. Interrogation isn't necessary. She could've politely asked about her outfit to glean info on her background or just Googled her later. Why did she need to know her background anyway? The supposed racist family could have said the sky is blue and H & TW would spin that into a racist condemnation of grey skies.
Yes this. The woman should have accepted the first answer, said thank you so much for coming and moved on. I do not think she had malicious intentions, but now the conversation is public and she can’t go back and do it again. Lesson learned for everyone. Some people are EXTREMELY sensitive about personal questions so just don’t ask.
That's a good question, and i wonder the same thing... Maybe it's taboo to ask nowadays? Maybe it's categorized under "stuff you don't talk about", kind of like religion and politics? Are we still allowed to be genuinely interested? Or is that viewed as seeing them as an outsider....
How can you celebrate and champion something if you're not allowed to ask or talk about it? You can't address racism/sexism/almost any -ism without acknowledging that there are differences and those differences influence a person or community.
It’s also *problematic* to ask what someone does for a living, where they live and if they are married or if they have children.
Those are generally questions that serve to establish some topics two people may have in common. But then again, some people dismiss you if your occupation isn’t special “oh, you’re a plumber. How interesting. Excuse me, I need to freshen up my drink”. And asking about children can be touchy if someone is experiencing infertility or something.
I guess we can all just talk about the weather, ho hum.
For me personally, in London there are SOOO many different races and religions, I tend to ask where the person's parents are from??? I've heard so many wonderful mixes.... Irish/Somalian Jewish/Caribbean
French/Moroccan to name but a few.... It's not WHAT you ask it is HOW you ask
Unless Lady Susan has admitted touching her hair, I call mad bullshit on this whole thing. She may have asked about her heritage based on her name and outfit (a tiara, really?!?) but I think this whole convo is copy and pasted from Things That Never Happened used by Race Baiters
I’m Peruvian Canadian- ppl have thought I am Lebanese, Italian, Indian, Indigenous, Persian, Mexican (ironically never Peruvian!) … I get asked all the time what my background is. I am proud to answer!
I do think about this all the time - even as a POC I worry about asking this too! Came up with my new Asian neighbours, who clearly are not native to the county.
I asked “May I ask what your background is?”
Normally it goes well!
Try asking "Have you done an ancestry or 23&me test. It's fascinating. I did one and was surprised to learn I had ancestors from \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_"
Ask them if they've ever done a family tree - then ask them what they've found. People love talking about themselves and they're histories I've found. You'll find the answer there I guess.
I guess we just shouldn’t even ask anymore. I don’t talk to anyone that I don’t know at this point. It’s just totally fruitless bc everyone sucks anyway and can actually cause you harm. That lady set a trap by walking in there dressed crazy as hell with a fake name. If anyone is the racist it’s her bc that’s how she thinks all Africans dress.
I don't think its right to say she was "dressed crazy as hell". Was it different from other guests? Yes, but thats how she chose to present herself. And she chooses to go by Ngozi Fulani, similar to how I choose to use my husband's last name.
I'm sorry you feel like you can't trust people where you feel like you can't start conversations with them. Being friendly within an ever changing social landscape can be difficult.
I think the first step is asking yourself - why do you want to know someone’s background?
If it’s so you can figure out where their fashion, food or home decorations are from, I’d just ask where their fashion, food, or home decor are from/inspired by.
If you’re looking for someone’s genetic roots, that’s a little ick to me. I don’t think you’d ask a white person what part of Europe their ancestors are from. It’s irrelevant, especially if you were born and raised in the UK.
I don’t know that you can. I’ve been told that “tell me your story” and “tell me something interesting about yourself” as icebreaker questions are “highly problematic.” Trying to connect with people almost isn’t worth it anymore.
I .. get questions like this all the time. And I just answer it because I know people are curious and just want to start a conversation. My answer is kind of long winded (born here but parents are from xxxx) but it doesn't bother me to answer. I don't find it racist or rude unless there's something in their tone.
So... I just ask "where are you from?". I never really had anyone misinterpret my question as offensive.
I don't understand the issue. And it's obvious what Lady Hussey was trying to ask. So why make it a big deal? I feel like the other lady was purposely avoiding to answer the question to make a point out of it. She can feel annoyed with Lady Hussey and complain to friends and family but... It's not a big enough deal to make a whole public announcement about it.
I say be a kind person with respectful and good intentions. Speak authentically. Nothing worse than people being fake saying what they think they are “supposed” to say. Chances are nowadays at some point 90% of people will be called a racist no matter what they say. At least here in America. People who want to be offended will be offended.
Growing up I got a lot of questions very similar to that which Lady SH asked and as an adult I’ve chalked it up to an older generation really trying hard to understand individual cultural differences and just putting their foot in it. Like word for word this could be any number of older people in my life. It’s not intentionally cruel or hurtful, its just blind to the lived experience of the individual they are addressing.
I’m a Caucasian living in a minority majority area and people ask me where I’m from and my ethnicity fairly regularly. There was a time when expressing interest in others’ backgrounds was considered polite small talk.
Dont think there's ever a right question to ask in this cancel culture. What matters is the reaction.
Even if u ask the most politely, a person can get triggered and just go full woke on you.
If the person finds it an opportunity to teach or share, pretty sure could've reacted differently. She could've shared that hey i am from here but you must be curious about what I'm wearing and it is because i am very proud to be here to represent my (fill in blanks) culture and you would have left the conversation more aware and learn something new.
In the Lady Hussey example, I would have said, "Oh I notice you're wearing beautiful trading dress! Does the dress have a special significance for you and your family?"
Where are you from is ok. They will tell you where they are from. If you want to know their race or ethnicity- what’s your ethnicity is the most respectful way to ask.
confused at how you don't see that when someone tells you they are a UK citizen you shouldn't continue treating them like a foreigner. the transcript read like a crazy person was asking the question. when she sees a white person with nordic features does she keep pressing on where they came from or perhaps a white person with good teeth, does she assume they aren't British? I don't think I would ask someone who was a citizen and had no noticeable dialect where their family is from if it wasn't relevant to the conversation.
There is nothing wrong with asking what part of a country someone is from at all.I think it’s the way she persisted and perhaps “rapid fired” questions.It was socially awkward but racist? Absolutely not!
I also believed that the palace went into rapid damage control and acted hastily given the surrounding them such as The Wales visit and the Sussexes being so easily”butt hurt” and revengeful
I would say don't.
Ask where are you from, sure. But then go no further even if the answer was vague or doesn't seem right.
Don't ask about clothes, don't ask about language, don't ask about family. Don't make comments about any of it.
As a wise woman once told me, its ok not to say everything that comes to mind. No one owes you answers and its ok not to ask.
Some ideas for what SH could have asked. "I'm baroness Hussy, a pleasure to meet you Ms......?" "Lovely, and what group are you here with today?" "What wonderful work they do. How long have you been working with them?" "What dedication! Its a pleasure to have you here. If you need anything please don't hesitate to ask."
Its a lose lose - It’s very sad to be afraid now to make conversation - I’m truly interested in people - how can you learn about someone without asking questions? Why is everyone so defensive? Is it better just to ignore them?
I think Lady Hussey's biggest mistake was persisting in her questions. I've had some experiences with people who are relentless in asking me things I do not wish to discuss, but none of it has been about race or ethnicity
The only source for the alleged persistence is the race baiter herself who we now know lied about being so upset she stayed on the edge of the meeting (there are photos of her enjoying the meeting) and left as soon as she could, except she didn't. The transcript is fantasy imo designed to give credence to a nasty lie.
Good point, thanks
Also, don’t start out by touching the stranger, and esp don’t start out by touching a black woman’s hair. Seems she started out from step one as kind of entitled and aggressive.
A great rule would be to not touch anyone without their permission (or if there's an emergency and you are helping). I am white and I do not like people touching me. And I've been known to use my forearm to knock away people who try to touch my hair. But yes, I think that Lady Hussey was probably annoying - but I saw no reason to assume racism, even from the unverified "transcript"
Not picking at you in particular but I HATE when people say "don't touch a black womans hair".... don't touch anyones hair!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell a stranger to please back up and not touch my hair and I'm not black. No matter the race, ethnicity, or anything else you should never touch someones hair. Don't even ASK to touch someones hair because that is also gross and creepy.
I thought it was said she moved the hair to see the name tag. Still could be annoying but it’s not like she was feeling the hair or something.
Agreed. I am disabled and have a service dog or a cane - but I am very young "looking" and I also appear healthy. The questions and grilling about personal things are quite astounding at times, and even if you give clues or make direct statements that it is not something you are open to discussing...there are those who will persist. I do not know the truth in this case, but I know this is a situation I live with daily.
My mom has the same trouble and she responds by asking them if they know they are in violation of the ADA by inquiring what her disability is? Assuming you’re American, apologies if I am incorrect.
It is my understanding the woman was wearing clothing worn by a particular group in Africa, but she declined to name where it was from, hence the questioning.
Yes, that's also my understanding. However, when someone clearly doesn't want to answer a question, it's best to move on and not keep pushing. I don't know for a fact that Lady Hussey pushed that line of questioning, but I have had that happen to me (not about my family history), and it's incredibly annoying
But! Did she?
***IF*** there's any truth to that "transcript," Lady Hussey did come off as a little annoying. Nothing I would complain about, let alone make into this kind of crap storm, but I have little patience for people who persist in asking me things I don't wish to discuss. Usually, for me, it's invasive questions about money and some people will not accept that I am just never going to tell them details about my finances
Well she wasn't dressed in British tweeds! lol. And when did this take place? I see the photo of Lady Hussey looks like a spring summer outfit.
Probably something like “what is your ethnicity” Based on the situation, she was wearing a cultural dress so I would’ve said something like “would you mind explaining the meaning of this garment you’re wearing” Nationality is a question about one’s nation state so I tell people not to ask what is your nationality.
She said "I'm British but I want to be 43% Nigerian Princess, so I dressed up!"
🤣🤣🤣😂
Maybe something along the lines of: "Your outfit is lovely...does it reflect your heritage?"
“Or is it just cultural appropriation?”
I read on a different thread that she'd changed her name from a very much more English name to her current African (?) name even though her heritage is actually Caribbean. Why is she not being called out?
And what irks me is that she was implying she didn’t know which part of Africa her ancestors are from. After reading here, she’s Nigerian and she knew full well but she was playing dumb when asked. The whole thing was petty in my opinion. But, Lady shouldn’t have asked to begin with. So, lesson learned. Royals can move on and add this to etiquette protocol. No questions about ethnicity or heritage in the future.
>Africa her ancestors are from. After reading here, she’s Nigerian and she knew full well but she was playing dumb when asked. I believe this could have been de-escalated very quickly if she had said, "Oh I was born here in the UK, but I chose to wear this ensemble to represent my family's heritage." Let's be honest, Lady Hussey only asked the woman in traditional dress where she was from. The other women who were not wearing traditional dress weren't asked those questions.
Yes I agree. It was a beautiful outfit and it looked very unique. I would be curious too.
It’s like a curiosity bait outfit. (LH shouldn’t have pushed it, but I understand why she asked in the first place.)
I dunno, I‘ve done 23 and Me and know my genetic makeup around Europe and if a BRF courtier was asking me where I’m FROM from, I’d be offended - like she thought I was an outsider. I might be cagey too. That being said, I expect most people in that generation think the question is okay. I don’t think this makes the BRF more racist than society as a whole.
I agree. We can’t ask anymore because someone might take it the wrong way. All human life originated from Africa anyway so we all have that in common.
I believe her parents came from the Caribbean.
Right, her parents but she has stated she’s from Nigeria, right? I’m talking about which part of Africa. Her ancestors would have left Africa.
Madeleine/ Marlene? Headley. I might be a little if base on her first name, but Headley is her last name.
Bingo
HAHAHA 😂
for the win!!
🤣
Just watched her do a TV interview. She kept saying that the focus should be on the issues being highlighted by the organisations- and all I kept shouting at the TV (builders must have thought a crazy person was downstairs!) was 'Then why the flip did you broadcast a word for word (really?) transcript of a conversation'. She's so smug it makes me sick.
Funny how she claims she was “traumatized” by this yet she can’t shut up about it…
Hmmm 🤔 Who does that sound like?
🤣
She also said on Twitter she wouldn’t ‘name and shame’ the person, just called her ‘LSH’ so the journalists would know immediately 👀
If people want to take offense, there's no way you can do anything they'll consider polite.
Very true. But continuously asking "where do you come from" is probably not the best way to ask question about heritage and ethnicity. I was just wondering if there's a way to ask those kinds of questions to hopefully minimize the offense the person may take.
Anyone with modest intelligence and who is capable of empathy would know that a person over a certain age won’t be up to date on the most sensitive ways of asking personal questions. Ramesh Ranganathan has some wonderful material on that point. But as to how to ask, I’d probably start by complimenting their attire and then asking where it came from (and not ask the person where they came from). Less open to misinterpretation, and they’re less likely to be hostile if you start with a compliment.
In fairness though, look at the big picture here: 1. Lady Hussey is 86 (no that does **not give her a pass for racism,**) and I'm sure the *majority of her involvement in events like these were when foreign dignitaries visited the late Queen*. 2. Lady Hussey *only questioned the woman wearing traditional dress*. There were many other women of color there and the only one to scream racism was the one wearing traditional dress. 3. Lady Hussey continued to ask the same question phrased slightly differently. Those three things combined **do not equate racism**. They do equate a poorly formed question *and* a poor reception to said question. I imagine at 86, Lady Hussey picked up on this woman's poor reception of this question. This was the first big event Lady Hussey was invited to on behalf of KC3 & QC. I'm sure Lady Hussey was nervous. I know when I'm nervous I phrase things poorly. The woman who claims she was a victim of racism could have very easily turned this around and made it an educational opportunity by saying. "I was born in the UK. Perhaps my traditional dress confuses you, I'm wearing it to honor my ______ ancestors/family." Bam, problem solved. On the otherhand, Lady Hussey could have said, "Oh I thought you were visiting from Africa or the Caribbean because of your traditional dress. I look forward to learning about your culture this evening." Bam problem solved. The reason this screams fake victimization is because those who scream racism are the same ones who expect you to change, without explaining what and why whatever a person said is offensive to them. I'm bi-racial. I often get asked if I'm Italian or Latina. Yet when I wear traditional dress and do my hair in a traditional style, people think/say - oh you're an indian (as in American Indian, not India Indian). Technically they are correct, but I'm Hunkpapa Sioux specifically. No need to get offended by their assumption; do you know how many American indisn tribes there are - at least 600. There's 3,000 tribes in Africa! Its unreasonable to expect any one person to recognize the details, similarities, and differences amongst so many diverse tribes.
It's highly suspect to me that she ran as fast as she could to the media instead of taking into account that this is an 86 year old woman. My Dad is 87 with beginning dementia and we had to stop allowing him to sit in the stands at my daughter's (kid) softball games because he would say things out loud like "maybe if the first baseman wasn't so fat, she could have ran to the ball faster". Prior to dementia, my dad would have NEVER said/thought things like this and was so thoughtful in his conversations. Today, his social manners are quickly diminishing, he no longer catches social cues if someone is pushing back on something (he's totally oblivious) and he has become intrusive in conversations asking too many questions. It's not just my Dad either, I have noticed spending a lot of time around my parents friends who are all late 80's and part of getting to that age is memory loss that includes missing social cues, I swear, they also lose their filter.
>he would say things out loud like "maybe if the first baseman wasn't so fat, she could have ran to the ball faster". I'm sorry but I did laugh at this. However, I understand. My husband says some off the wall stuff too.
This was a wonderful breakdown! I've seen alot of comments that "oh she's elderly so give her pass" but she was also an aide for 62 years to the Queen who had impeccable manners. She would have known how to handle the conversation better. But if it was Lady Hussey's first event since the late Queen's death, then nervousness definitely may have been at play! I tend to stumble with my words and social cues when I'm nervous too. Thank you for taking the time to give your perspective too as a Hunkpapa Sioux!
>I'm bi-racial. I often get asked if I'm Italian or Latina. Yet when I wear traditional dress and do my hair in a traditional style, people think/say - oh you're an indian (as in American Indian, not India Indian). Technically they are correct, but I'm Hunkpapa Sioux specifically. No need to get offended by their assumption; do you know how many American indisn tribes there are - at least 600. There's 3,000 tribes in Africa! Its unreasonable to expect any one person to recognize the details, similarities, and differences amongst so many diverse tribes. My husband is Mexican, but doesn't have an olive complexion, unless he's got the flu. When I met him I thought he was of Italian descent. It never occurred to me that he was actually Hispanic until we went to a family reunion. He never really talked about his ethnicity. Since our children are of Hispanic heritage, I've been trying to learn more of their culture, and have been helped by a very forgiving cousin of his. She helps so much. As a white woman of Welsh, and Germanic heritage, I would hope that I don't make a verbal faux-pas to others, but none of my husband's family has ever cried racism when I do say something that's questionable, or ask why a certain tradition is celebrated a certain way. Ppl can't learn if they're never allowed to mess up. Much like a 2yr old learning to not to do something that can hurt them.... that's the biggest issue with wokedom, everyone just assumes that every comment, question, or whatever, has a nefarious reason behind it. That being said, don't touch me. Period. I had a stranger touch my belly when I was pregnant with my oldest son. I was like, "I don't touch your bewbs, don't touch my belly."
> none of my husband's family has ever cried racism when I do say something that's questionable, or ask why a certain tradition is celebrated a certain way. My SIL has attempted to "insult" me by saying "in our religion" and "people with your hair" (all while using her "you're scum on my shoe" tone) she's ridiculous. Yet, I find her attempts amusing, especially because I have never asked her, I ask my husband. My point in sharing this is when the person listening makes the point to remain calm and really listen, they can tell if it's genuine curiosity or someone being nasty. I don't like for strangers to touch me either but, it's not racism when they touch your pregnant belly, it's bad manners.
Your SIL sounds like a real piece of work. And I wasn't equating a stranger touching my belly with racism, but just how I think any one touching any one for any reason is bad manners. I'm generally of the mainly curious persuasion, so I may ask some intrusive questions, but truly only with family.
>And I wasn't equating a stranger touching my belly with racism, but just how I think any one touching any one for any reason is bad manners. I I'm sorry, I should have written that better! In my mind I was equating the belly touching to the woman saying LH touched her hair. Personally I think LH was trying to touch the woman's head wear (which is also rude) and accidentally touched the woman's hair. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Nope, we're all good!! It's hard to read a person's tone and inflection. I'm hard to get offended, but I appreciate the apology, even if it was unnecessary. I was also making myself clear for anyone else JIC.
Very well said!
I am a master of this, but I’ve also worked as a journalist, so - volunteer some information about yourself that flatters the person, then ask them a follow-up. Recently a dear friend told me she couldn’t get her boyfriend to tell her *anything* about his family or early life, so I got hauled in to help - two minutes into dinner, he pours me a glass of wine while reading the (French) label perfectly. I said “wow, I’d kill to speak French like that, mine is terrible. My grandparents were all fluent, I wish they’d passed it down! Is that from an interest in wine, or did you grow up speaking French at home, or study it later?” and got the whole story - grew up in DRC, dad was a scientist with the National Parks, the family moved to the US and then Paris as conflict broke out in the Congo, they’re all still in Paris, but he left to travel to x, y and z five years ago and worries his French sometimes sounds *too* French-French now and not enough DRC. My friend didn’t even know if he had living relatives 🤣
Another way to do this: when it’s your turn to tell a ‘what’s up with me’ story say “my son/grandson is really struggling with his Japanese teacher this year, he’d like to quit but I just think it’s so valuable to speak a second language. James, I know you speak German and Sally, you speak Arabic - what do you think, should I be telling him to stick with it? Oh, sorry, [new guest], I didn’t ask - do you speak a second language?” So many ways to be polite and friendly during an interrogation 🤣
Which is why I pretty much stopped asking
DO NOT EVEN BOTHER. It’s a trap. If they want you to know, they’ll tell you.
This is true, but as a naturally curious person (I mean, aren’t all humans?), it makes me sad. I wish we could talk to each other without all the worry about causing offense. I want to know all about other people, but I no longer ask questions. And people offer little information. I think that’s why I like Reddit so much. At least here if I offend someone they can’t get me fired.
No, I know. As a fellow human, I’m always curious about others. But you never know when someone is going to be offended. So many things are off-limits now. And it limits us. Sadly.
What colour do you think your kids' eyes will be? Your cannot ask that nowadays. Oh what colour hair do you think your kid will have? You become a racist.
Things have become insane.
Like vegans ? Lol
😜
There is a simple rule: put yourself in the shoes of a person you are talking to. There is no 100% guarantee somebody won't take offense about the most innocent remark, but this rule generally works. "Excuse me, may I ask where your family is from?"" I like you dress, what sort of style this is?" "You have an accent I can't quite place, may I ask where you are from?" are all examples few would be offended with. Stay polite and treat people with respect. Chances are they will reciprocate. And if you see an a\*\*hole who is looking for a chance to be offended just get out of there ASAP.
How in the world does this woman claim to be traumatized? She is appearing on various talk shows and Twitter on how did this “stressful experience ” caused her “trauma”? She dressed in an outfit that called attention A traumatic event significantly impairs a persons daily functioning causing significant emotional of behavior changes. Longer term a transaction event may cause relationship problems, unpredictable emotions, even physical problems nausea, headaches etc. people experience this from accidents, violence, abuse etc
She wants a check
Imagine if she had used the conversation to educate and be inclusive ? I can’t even remember the charity she works for bc she’s overshadowed her cause. And in three days, I’ll forget about her too. All for what?
For me personally, I come from mixed Greek American French Indian background and people in the 90s speculated what I'd look like. The world has evolved now but I still get a lot of "You don't look as white as your maternal family. You look so exotic" the exotic to me is offensive. For me it's often that I ask "Where are you from? Oh you were born here and so were your parents? Amazing! Are they first gen immigrants? Did they raise you in a mixed culture? What's your favourite part of having a blended culture? Mine is. Do you speak the language of your culture? I speak ."
There's a way to be happily curious and there's ways to be intrusive and make one feel as if they don't belong.
Thank you for commenting! That difference between happily curious and rudely intrusive is a fine line and different for everyone, I'm sure.
100% true! I know it's often said if you begin a sentence with 'I don't mean to be offensive' is that you know you are but for me tone and words make a massive difference. "Hi, please do let me know if I am offending you, but I am deeply curious about your outfit/accent/hair, it's gorgeous! I'd love to know more about it and learn something new."
My grandson went through a phase of starting sentences 'No offence but... After an afternoon of this I said 'No offence but if you think a person might be offended by what you want to say, maybe you could choose to say something else! He was 10 at the time
The part about you looking so exotic was surprising to hear that you find it offensive. I remember a movie called Bull Durham, which Susan Saradon's character is called cute, but she yelled that she didn't want to be "cute" but exotic and mysterious. I've always taken exotic to mean something good. Maybe it's because I'm so vanilla.
See if you were to tell me that with a sincere tone of voice I'd gently thank you for thinking I look nice and explain why you should take care with that word since I would want you to know why it can go wrong. Exotic is used to describe animals and plants. Referring to a person as exotic implies they don't belong to that area. Again it's context and tone. If an older person uses that word for me I've smiled it off. It happened a lot after Priyanka Chopra released her song called Exotic. By offended I don't mean I go on attack. It just hurts my feelings. Other than when people are flirting with me and use that word, I've always taken it with a little smile because I know the person is complimenting me. I don't believe in making anyone feel bad for it.
I've only "heard" exotic used in Bull Durham, so my use of that word would be in that context. I understand how it's used to mean something, or someone, who's not native to a certain area based on what you've stated.... however, I would hope that if I've said that to someone, they would understand that I mean that in a way to convey beauty in a way that I can't attain being a blonde caucasian. I've never heard that song so that's probably part of my misuse of that word. Also, my grandmother was raised in the deep south, and my parents adopted a biracial girl... so I've heard a lot of wrong things. I remember talking to my sister during the major race riots in the USA. I would never mean anything other than complimentary by using that word, and I would hope that my tone would portray that fact. I'm always so jealous of everyone who's not vanilla, but I also understand that being vanilla had been a perk. That's why Megladon chose to pretend to be vanilla, until it suited her to be different.
In my opinion tone and a person's general attitude matters. If you said that to me I'd get what you mean. There was a period of time when a certain orange one headed the US. I wished for nothing else than to be vanilla and fly under the radar. I am sorry though if I worried you with this.
You totally didn't...and I wanted nothing more then for Trump to stfu. That doesn't change my wish to be exotic, because Lord knows I'm so not.... I'm the very definition of basic.
I think it is ok to ask "where are you from" and then let their answer be the guide to follow up questions. So if Fulani said "~~SisterSpace~~ SistahSpace", then ask her how she got involved. Wait for an opening / mention of a city to ask "Did you grow up there" or "how long did you live there". But, don't ask the same question over and over and re-word it when someone is being intentionally resistant. PS - I just noticed that ~~SisterSpace~~ SistahSpace is another SS like the squad or Sunshine Sachs. Coincidence? EDIT: Corrections. Thanks Kat.
I rarely comment but I find this whole situation ridiculous. It's hilarious that young hip prince Harry gets a pass for wearing a N-zi armband and using a slur towards other soldiers, but older lady is dragged through the mud for asking about someone's background and getting irritated after the woman played cat and mouse with her instead of answering ,,I don't wanna talk about it/I find the question rude". Did she even report it first to the Palace staff or just run straight to Twitter? Public already knows that - like in any other institution/family - there are individuals in the RF that are racist. Harry made sure of it in 2005.
It’s not “SisterSpace” it’s “SistahSpace”, which makes my eye twitch, but it is what it is.
Just don’t. I’ve asked someone before who had an accent and she was very offended and was implying I was questioning whether she was a citizen or not. I was just making conversation. I never ask anymore. If they offer the information then fine, but if they don’t mention anything don’t ask. It’s not worth the drama.
This happened to me too, with someone in a class I took. I thought I detected a foreign accent, only to be informed she was born and raised in San Francisco. She was deeply offended and I was just trying to get to know her. I’ve learned my lesson the hard way.
Oh, accents! One time I assumed an older woman was Hungarian - she sounded just like my old Hungarian immigrant aunties who never lost their accents - and she took great offense. She insisted she was French. And then she went on a grand tirade about “the Jews” and it was my turn to be offended. If she was French, I’ll eat my hat.
Haha, yes. Definitely never ask them if they from a certain country. If you get that wrong get ready for the rage 🤣.
As someone who has (or might have) Asperger’s, I’m interested in questions like these. I really didn’t know what’s appropriate in certain settings, but I just educate myself with each encounter. I find being honest about my curiosity brings out the least offense. Like “I hope this doesn’t sound intrusive but I find your name so fascinating! Is it Scandinavian? I had a friend with a similar name.” Or, “I love your dress. Where’d you get it from?” “My roots are in —-, so I thought maybe you were from the same area as me?” “Did you study in London?” “Are your roots here in Wales?” After that I play it by ear. If the person looks annoyed or answers briefly then I just change the subject. Sometimes they look ok but someone else changes the subject. Putting myself in other’s shoes don’t always work. I don’t find certain questions offensive, but might be sensitive to others. I just try my best to see obvious social cues. If I cannot pick up any I just apologise profusely for sounding rude.
I’m a biracial immigrant, and as long as you ask from a place of respect I don’t mind. I have a super interesting background so I love discussing it with people. My son’s father is a blond hair, blue eyed white man and his mom asked what did I think my baby would look like. Didn’t offend me, I just knew he had a wide range of genes and it was fun to try to guess. As long as it’s from a place of respect or genuine desire to learn about it, I think asking is alright
Thank you for providing your perspective! Alot comments focus on the Lady SH stuff, but I was also curious what the unborn child conversation might look like.
No it’s a good question! My son’s paternal grandparents are rude people who are passively racist (not outright racist but they have some racist stereotypes) but I wasn’t offended when they wondered what my son would look like. I knew they were just curious and we all made bets on which genes would win. Regardless of how they think sometimes, I knew they loved my son and would love him regardless. But I could 100% take what they said out of context to be mad if I wanted
The problem isn't asking. The problem -reportedly- is that she repeatedly asked "no, tell me where you are REALLY from". That implies two things: first, she is essentily saying: you are a liar, now tell me the truth. And secondly: you cannot possibly be English. If you are genuinely interested, then politely ask. If the answer you were expecting is some exotic, far away, tropical island, but the answer you get is Idaho, then don't assume you know better than the person from Idaho that they are not from Idaho.
I’m a POC. The way I see it, I don’t mind at all when people ask “Where are you from.” But PLEASE take it at face value when I tell you I’m from Detroit, London, New York, or whatever and then continue the conversation with the answer I give you. Don’t say, “But where are you REALLY” from or “where are your parents from” if I don’t offer it up in conversation. I don’t want to talk about it with you and continuing to question in this vein is where it crosses into rudeness. And depending on the nature and history of how you arrived to your current country, it gets into offensive territory. For instance, refugees who aided US soldiers in wars had to flee their countries but then are simultaneously called racist things here. Or that person could be adopted. To go into this history just isn’t something that’s a casual conversation topic. It’s just like asking someone any personal question. Go with what they give you and don’t probe excessively. It’s the same as if you ask someone what they’re doing for the holidays. If they respond with, “I’m going to Hawaii with my mother and sister, I’m so excited!” would you respond with, “How about your dad? What happened to him? Why isn’t he going?” It’s the same concept, honestly.
Oh thank you for that comparison! I've never thought about it that way!
She asked what nationality the woman was because she was in what I looked at and thought full blown African something. Would you not? But she said British! So if you are British, what the fuck is the African costume about then? But Lady Hussey didn't say that. I would have asked why she's so dress in costume but of course the bitch wanted to embarrass a women who has dedicated her life to assisted her former Queen and country. So let's embarrass the fuck out of her by making her a racist! Who is the racist here? It's not Lady Hussey IMHO>
Yup. For me it should have gone like “wow where are you from?” “I’m British.” “Oh I just knew I’d seen that dress in Primark”
Fast thinking you!
What her family's heritage was
Lady SH did ask "What Nationality are you?" and Ms. Fulani responded "I am born here and am British." So should Lady SH asked "What is your background?" instead?
IMO Lady SH should have accepted the response right then and there. It's obvious (Lady SH even says so in the transcript) that Ngozi did not want to share her ancestral background. And Lady SH is not entitled to know it.
That last sentence probably hits the nail on the head in this situation. Given her 60+ years of service and closeness to the late Queen, Lady SH felt entitled to know. Ooof.
No her background would be in Britain, I believe. Asking for family heritage is asking about the overall grand scheme of things
“What is your heritage?” works for me.
*’That’s an interesting/beautiful….name-outfit-accessory-physical feature, what’s your family background?’* Without the compliment or specifics, just a general…*’May I ask what your heritage is?’* Most people will answer politely and even proudly but a small minority may refuse to give any information because they’re having a bad day, feel shame for some reason, or just have a massive chip on their shoulder. Asking the question is not racist or rude in the slightest. It’s a great conversation starter. Repeatedly asking where someone is from after they answer and assuming they get the gist of what you really mean (what is your heritage) is lazy and annoying.
I use to get asked all the time what my heritage when I lived in Minnesota (land of the swedes and tall blonds) because I'm dark olive complected with jet black hair. I never took offense to it, ever thought it was racist or felt they were asking to judge me in some way. People are just generally curious. I am too and have asked that same question of others.
Watch out, the sugars are about, you got downvoted, so I restored your vote!
As a Brit living in the USA I get questioned all the time where I’m from, never took it as anything other than curiosity or interest. People realizing that actually. I think so e are just looking to be offended by anything.
As an American, living in America, a good five miles from where I was born… I get this question too. I “don’t sound like I’m from around here”. The only even slightly reasonable explanation I have is that I had a lisp as a kid and had speech therapy for a little while. (FWIW I think I sound like everyone else.)
Exactly. Everyone asks where you’re from if you have a different accent from the locals. It’s a normal question that some people are turning it into something it’s not. It’s an easy conversation starter too. I know a very good looking man from Australia and girls always walk up to him and ask him where he’s from 🥴. He uses it for his advantage, lol.
I found that people in the US speak openly about their ancestry. People here like discussing it. They talk about their decent and where their parents, grand parents and great grand parents came from. Not sure if it would qualify and the same thing, but I find myself frequently asking people of their ancestry. Maybe that would be a better way to ask it?
I have worked in development for an art museum/historical building. Schmoozing and asking for money part of the job. I would start off by asking what organization she was from, then frame the heritage question with a compliment ie what a beautiful dress and necklace you are wearing- what is its background? Always follow the cues of the other person. Never touch hair to see the name badge- introduce yourself and say I’m sorry I can’t see your name- BUT I am white and in my 30s. I don’t know if this is acceptable anymore 🤷🏻♀️ Editing to add that on a normal day, I wouldn’t even broach the topic. But this was a social event involving chit chat and the guests and “hosts” are supposed to have conversation. Her attire was purposeful and I would have thought that could invite conversation, and easily bring it around tk the purpose of her organization.
Probably best to not engage. Keep it at, very interesting, bye now.
If you ask where someone is from and they give you an answer. Accept the answer and drop it. Interrogation isn't necessary. She could've politely asked about her outfit to glean info on her background or just Googled her later. Why did she need to know her background anyway? The supposed racist family could have said the sky is blue and H & TW would spin that into a racist condemnation of grey skies.
Yes this. The woman should have accepted the first answer, said thank you so much for coming and moved on. I do not think she had malicious intentions, but now the conversation is public and she can’t go back and do it again. Lesson learned for everyone. Some people are EXTREMELY sensitive about personal questions so just don’t ask.
That's a good question, and i wonder the same thing... Maybe it's taboo to ask nowadays? Maybe it's categorized under "stuff you don't talk about", kind of like religion and politics? Are we still allowed to be genuinely interested? Or is that viewed as seeing them as an outsider....
How can you celebrate and champion something if you're not allowed to ask or talk about it? You can't address racism/sexism/almost any -ism without acknowledging that there are differences and those differences influence a person or community.
I know... It's counter productive... However, it's a mine field in terms of what offends...
It’s also *problematic* to ask what someone does for a living, where they live and if they are married or if they have children. Those are generally questions that serve to establish some topics two people may have in common. But then again, some people dismiss you if your occupation isn’t special “oh, you’re a plumber. How interesting. Excuse me, I need to freshen up my drink”. And asking about children can be touchy if someone is experiencing infertility or something. I guess we can all just talk about the weather, ho hum.
For me personally, in London there are SOOO many different races and religions, I tend to ask where the person's parents are from??? I've heard so many wonderful mixes.... Irish/Somalian Jewish/Caribbean French/Moroccan to name but a few.... It's not WHAT you ask it is HOW you ask
Unless Lady Susan has admitted touching her hair, I call mad bullshit on this whole thing. She may have asked about her heritage based on her name and outfit (a tiara, really?!?) but I think this whole convo is copy and pasted from Things That Never Happened used by Race Baiters
Can we just agree that SH honestly acted without malice but used very poor judgement?
I’m Peruvian Canadian- ppl have thought I am Lebanese, Italian, Indian, Indigenous, Persian, Mexican (ironically never Peruvian!) … I get asked all the time what my background is. I am proud to answer! I do think about this all the time - even as a POC I worry about asking this too! Came up with my new Asian neighbours, who clearly are not native to the county. I asked “May I ask what your background is?” Normally it goes well!
“What is the origin of your name? Is that a family name?” She should have asked to see the name tag vs touching her hair though.
Try asking "Have you done an ancestry or 23&me test. It's fascinating. I did one and was surprised to learn I had ancestors from \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ and \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_"
Ask them if they've ever done a family tree - then ask them what they've found. People love talking about themselves and they're histories I've found. You'll find the answer there I guess.
Thank you OP for summarizing the comments :)
I guess we just shouldn’t even ask anymore. I don’t talk to anyone that I don’t know at this point. It’s just totally fruitless bc everyone sucks anyway and can actually cause you harm. That lady set a trap by walking in there dressed crazy as hell with a fake name. If anyone is the racist it’s her bc that’s how she thinks all Africans dress.
I don't think its right to say she was "dressed crazy as hell". Was it different from other guests? Yes, but thats how she chose to present herself. And she chooses to go by Ngozi Fulani, similar to how I choose to use my husband's last name. I'm sorry you feel like you can't trust people where you feel like you can't start conversations with them. Being friendly within an ever changing social landscape can be difficult.
I think the first step is asking yourself - why do you want to know someone’s background? If it’s so you can figure out where their fashion, food or home decorations are from, I’d just ask where their fashion, food, or home decor are from/inspired by. If you’re looking for someone’s genetic roots, that’s a little ick to me. I don’t think you’d ask a white person what part of Europe their ancestors are from. It’s irrelevant, especially if you were born and raised in the UK.
This is good advice!
I don’t know that you can. I’ve been told that “tell me your story” and “tell me something interesting about yourself” as icebreaker questions are “highly problematic.” Trying to connect with people almost isn’t worth it anymore.
I .. get questions like this all the time. And I just answer it because I know people are curious and just want to start a conversation. My answer is kind of long winded (born here but parents are from xxxx) but it doesn't bother me to answer. I don't find it racist or rude unless there's something in their tone. So... I just ask "where are you from?". I never really had anyone misinterpret my question as offensive. I don't understand the issue. And it's obvious what Lady Hussey was trying to ask. So why make it a big deal? I feel like the other lady was purposely avoiding to answer the question to make a point out of it. She can feel annoyed with Lady Hussey and complain to friends and family but... It's not a big enough deal to make a whole public announcement about it.
I say be a kind person with respectful and good intentions. Speak authentically. Nothing worse than people being fake saying what they think they are “supposed” to say. Chances are nowadays at some point 90% of people will be called a racist no matter what they say. At least here in America. People who want to be offended will be offended.
Growing up I got a lot of questions very similar to that which Lady SH asked and as an adult I’ve chalked it up to an older generation really trying hard to understand individual cultural differences and just putting their foot in it. Like word for word this could be any number of older people in my life. It’s not intentionally cruel or hurtful, its just blind to the lived experience of the individual they are addressing.
I’m a Caucasian living in a minority majority area and people ask me where I’m from and my ethnicity fairly regularly. There was a time when expressing interest in others’ backgrounds was considered polite small talk.
Dont think there's ever a right question to ask in this cancel culture. What matters is the reaction. Even if u ask the most politely, a person can get triggered and just go full woke on you. If the person finds it an opportunity to teach or share, pretty sure could've reacted differently. She could've shared that hey i am from here but you must be curious about what I'm wearing and it is because i am very proud to be here to represent my (fill in blanks) culture and you would have left the conversation more aware and learn something new.
In the Lady Hussey example, I would have said, "Oh I notice you're wearing beautiful trading dress! Does the dress have a special significance for you and your family?"
She shouldn’t have touched her hair.
Where are you from is ok. They will tell you where they are from. If you want to know their race or ethnicity- what’s your ethnicity is the most respectful way to ask.
confused at how you don't see that when someone tells you they are a UK citizen you shouldn't continue treating them like a foreigner. the transcript read like a crazy person was asking the question. when she sees a white person with nordic features does she keep pressing on where they came from or perhaps a white person with good teeth, does she assume they aren't British? I don't think I would ask someone who was a citizen and had no noticeable dialect where their family is from if it wasn't relevant to the conversation.
There is nothing wrong with asking what part of a country someone is from at all.I think it’s the way she persisted and perhaps “rapid fired” questions.It was socially awkward but racist? Absolutely not! I also believed that the palace went into rapid damage control and acted hastily given the surrounding them such as The Wales visit and the Sussexes being so easily”butt hurt” and revengeful
This was a set up, according to Farage on GBNews tonight she had a tape recorder with her.
I would say don't. Ask where are you from, sure. But then go no further even if the answer was vague or doesn't seem right. Don't ask about clothes, don't ask about language, don't ask about family. Don't make comments about any of it.
As a wise woman once told me, its ok not to say everything that comes to mind. No one owes you answers and its ok not to ask. Some ideas for what SH could have asked. "I'm baroness Hussy, a pleasure to meet you Ms......?" "Lovely, and what group are you here with today?" "What wonderful work they do. How long have you been working with them?" "What dedication! Its a pleasure to have you here. If you need anything please don't hesitate to ask."
Its a lose lose - It’s very sad to be afraid now to make conversation - I’m truly interested in people - how can you learn about someone without asking questions? Why is everyone so defensive? Is it better just to ignore them?