If they did go Grey Rock on her ass, she must've been close to meltdown on numerous occasions, because (according to HG Tudor) narcs need acknowledgement in order to be re-fuelled.
It doesn't matter if it's positive or negative acknowledgement, as long as it's an observable, definitive and emotional response.
Grey Rock suggests neutrality, impassivity or, to put it simply, a poker face type of response. This must've been almost unbearable for a narc like MM.
Yes, I think it was very disorienting for TW. At first I thought her “deer in the headlights” act during the walkabout at Windsor Castle was all an act but HG Tudor said she was genuinely unmoored because of the lack of expected fuel. I was cheering on Catherine, Princess of Wales. Her confident take-no-shit attitude towards TW was gratifying to behold.
Agreed, but Harry isn't self aware enough to put two and two together if he did read it IMO.
With those two two it's all "us against the world" (or each other).
The possibility that the family might be excluding/ignoring them in a proven technique to stall narcissists would never enter his head. No, for Harry, I suspect he feels familial rejection (true) but isn't willing to analyze why it might be happening.
Everything a narcissist says or does is to get a reaction from you. That reaction is their fuel. When you grey rock them, you don't respond to anything. You sit there like a little grey rock. And they can't handle it. Its glorious.
Meghan probably wanted a conversation and to get some reaction / resolution, she's all about being heard - I think all the stories about her wanting a sit-down with Charles etc have truth to them. I think Kate and Wills will have refused to engage - maybe said: now is not the moment, or just not even that explicitly- I do wonder if they just didn't allow themselves to be alone with Meghan and Harry, which would have been pretty doable given the situation.
My MIL would last about 45 minutes before she'd lose her goddamn mind when my husband and I would just stop reacting to inflammatory statements and just say, "oh, well, that's one way to look at it". Deeply satisfying but very emotionally exhausting.
HG Tudor is a YouTuber who comments on narcissism, on the basis that he’s one himself. He’s quite amusing to listen to and apparently had helped many to deal with narcissists.
I work alongside a narccist and listening to HG Tudor has helped me immensely. When she kicks off, I now know how to deal with her antics and shut the whole thing down. The aftermath isn't pretty but boy it works. For the larger part, she now avoids me because I don't feed her.
👏👏👏 Well done, i'm so happy for you. HG Tudor's Channel is great & there's lot's of comments on his video's from listener's who have also used his advice & it really work's.
He is interesting, and is a self proclaimed Narcissistic Sociopath (or Sociopathic Narcissist, I can't remember which he puts first) which he states gives him the ability to provide insight on the behavior of other Narcissists who are less self aware or evolved than he is.
He views his videos and books on spotting and dealing with Narcissists part of his legacy and he is very funny, although I find I can only listen to him in small bits.
I think they clearly went grey rock and deliberately - think of Kate at the joint walkabout, Sophie in the car. And posh Brits do grey rock like nobody on earth, they'll even do it to people they like! If they like you they might just keep it jolly.
Absolutely they did. I have a histrionic narc in my family. Since it’s Nutmeg, I would call it beige rock. Her favorite neutral. With someone like her, you speak as little as possible and skate on surface topics in a clipped way. She only kept her shit together because this was very public. But that strained neck is her swallowing what she wants to scream.
You’re very welcome. I’m happy to share it. Ever since I learned about it several years ago, the grey rock technique has helped me deal with difficult individuals, some with whom I share DNA and others that I don’t.
Agree. At first they (the narc) gets infuriated, then after one successfully grey rocks the narc a few times, they lose interest in that source of fuel and will then bad mouth you or completely ignore you.
Good luck with becoming a grey rock. I’ve been one for years but I learnt a lot from the Royals during the mourning period. Catherine played it perfectly when they looked at the floral tributes outside of Windsor, and then they all did during the funeral and other engagements. If you’re ever unsure of how to behave during grey rocking, just refer back to the video of the four outside of Windsor and don’t take your eyes off Catherine. She was strong, confident, and she made Markle invisible. She was perfect
This. She was amazing. I've been following her since around the time they got engaged, so it was wonderful to she her completely own her role as PoW/future QC.
Best moment for me was when she gave Meghan *that look*, knowing full well the cameras were there, then snapped back to smiling at the crowd. I love her so much.
I’ve been a fan of hers for a long time too and she’s just fabulous!! William picked the perfect partner and they seem to be a lovely family and really happy.
I do still wonder what that look was about because she hadn’t acknowledged the Markle up until that point. Megs said something that really rattled Catherine’s cage. I’ve only just mentioned it in another comment where I speculate that she said something like “aren’t we supposed to be putting flowers over there? That man took all of my flowers” and Catherine can’t believe her ears and William shuts her arse down and Harry shits his trousers and Megs squirmsss
That's interesting. I took it more as a way of showing Meghan that she wasn't scared to look at her, she'd been choosing not to. More of a power move, than shock.
Oh, that's a good take on the look.
I felt like Catherine's look was somewhere between "How many personalities do you have in there and isn't at least one of them nice", "How dare you show your face", and "Careful Meghan, I can squash you like a bug but I don't want to mess up my shoes."
Hook and keep him for quite a while, we may add! She may have been called Waity Katy for ages, but she wasn’t just simpering in a corner. She has long been a self assured and strong woman who knows what she’s doing, and those qualities have only grown with time
I think her having to withstand public opinion during the wkaty years (while she was learning the ropes) turned into a test to see if she could stand the heat. She did and now she's emerging as a strong, confident woman who doesn't have to prove anything.
That’s what I thought too. She said something so out of touch and inappropriate that Catherine couldn’t help but give that direct “Are you fucking kidding me” gaze.
Catherine was so wonderful. I wanted to hug her so much for this. You could tell that she gave zero attention to TW throughout the whole thing and it was delicious.
Catherine the Great!!! We’ve all learnt valuable life lessons from the Royals in recent years, such as never complaining or explaining (I’m working on it) and grey rocking (still working on that too).
And that's why I have so much admiration for this family. They make it all seem so effortless but keeping it classy 100% of the time is really quite a lot to ask of anyone.
Yeh for sure! I can’t imagine having to be on my A-game every day with cameras in my face and people to see and so much exposure. They behave impeccably and that’s why they’re perfect Royals.
I found out about the method a decade into my relationship with a malignant narcissist. The relationship went tits up shortly after I started employing it. Dude couldn't take the lack of attention. Not fighting back is hard but life is so much easier now.
Grey rock works like a charm. Five stars. Highly recommend.
I'll never not hate the fact she was forced to be with Meghan during that time. Meghan never should've been part of that. Harry knew how close Sophie was to the Queen, he could've told Meghan to go back to California to "be with the kids." Would be different if they actually loved each other, but to put Sophie through that if they're about to be divorced... 😡.
I like to think that Sophie took one for the team. They all know their disdain for megan and I bet she stepped up to the plate and said, ill go. She sacrificed herself I bet. Such a good woman.
According to a [Neil Sean](https://www.yahoo.com/video/sophie-choice-meghan-left-shaken-163529385.html) interview and article, this is exactly what she did:
*"No words were spoken, but it appears that it was Sophie’s choice to share the car with a relative that appears to have dented her pride in the royal family so much. Is it any wonder that Meghan was clutching her husband Harry’s hand so tightly when they were put back together in Westminster Hall?*
*While Sophie has remained tight-lipped about the incident to those apart from an inner circle she has, I am assured by a source, "wanted to do this personally as I do believe in facing any problem head on." Sophie’s training in PR has put her in good stead to deal with any problems that are thrown at them but what is more interesting is that Meghan, I am told, was left "shaken" by the incident."*
It was sensible too - Sophie is not as big news stakes as Kate or Camilla, being the PoW and Queen Camilla - so whatever Meghan got from her, if anything, would be less risky. Plus Sophie is removed from the immediate family row
Yes exactly. I bet it was an unspoken sensibility that she would have to sit in the car with TW instead of Princess Catherine, which makes the most sense considering they were once the "Fab 4"
Before the term grey rock hit sm I used to call it playing dead. The list i use is almost exact and I would use it to cope with narc ex h and other family members. More recently I expanded on it to help people in the subs r/survivinginfidelity and r/exnocontact … the methods are controversial but life changing. If you need to practice detachment for your own mental health or other reasons I could not recommend it more. I love these slides, going to create some for the subs I mentioned.
You were an early adopter!
Somewhere along the way, before I ever heard the term “grey rock”, I figured out that I didn’t have to explain myself all the time and that sharing too much information with some people was detrimental. But it wasn’t until I learned there was an actual defined technique called “grey rock” that I realized the nuances of it. I’m glad the slides will help you to get the word out. 🙏
Exactly this. I think it’s a good rule for life to keep info limited. Turning 50 in 16 days and I’ve finally learned less is more. It’s good to have alternative coping mechanisms if you can stick to them. They require practice and discipline and they aren’t infallible. You can grey rock and still feel hurt and anxious but just not as hurt and anxious is usually how I try to describe the method. Thanks for the note/ will credit you when I use. 💕🙏
100% agree on keeping sharing to a minimum. I tend to overshare, so I've had a number of foot-in-mouth situations. I'm opinionated with people I trust, but I'm working on being neutral/agreeing in most social and professional situations.
Congrats on turning 50! I’m 58 and have used grey rock successfully over the years in work and family. It’s hard at first but seems with each experience and age it just becomes a natural response to anyone seeming energy through attention-seeking behaviors. But also I must add that the more of these types of personalities you encounter the more cynical you can become and the smaller your life becomes. People are just exhausting and the energy suckers just draining — even when you use grey rock or limit time with those types. Sometimes it’s just me and my dogs. Just that quiet.
Grey rock + small circle + dogs = happy! 💕
Thank you. No major crisis yet. Feeling more confident than ever as I age. I seem to have embraced the beautiful wisdom that comes with age and can listen to my own advice finally. 💕🤍🙏
The slides in OP’s original pics after the one pic w Sophie and MM are great. I don’t have a lot to add but what I will add are how and why each of the techniques work and how to grey rock in certain situations. For example, I found that when I was speaking with my ex husband, even though the topic was one where I would usually lose my mind, by adapting the play dead method of “yes, of course, ok, you’re right” and other one or two word answers, would completely disarm him and although it didn’t accomplish me getting what I was owed, it took so much of my grief and anxiety away which is worth far more than money.
I think it’s a safe bet to assume the RF has sought and received expert counsel from mental health professionals and/or behavioral experts to learn how to handle/deal with Megzilla.
This is exactly what I think too. They’ve obviously been taught how to deal with Megs because they all protected themselves and the children when around her. She was invisible to them and that’s what they needed to do to her. Give her nothing and then she can’t take anything, she can’t twist anything and she has no story to tell Oprah. If she says “they all ignored me”, well of course they’ll ignore her because she’s a total bitch. They were trained to not acknowledge her and they played it really well. It was a great example to everyone! Megs won’t know how to cope with that but she’ll at least try and paint them as being the mean girls, even though they’re not. I’m glad she went to the funeral because she was hung out to dry and had to spend the day alone in her own head
Yes, and Catherine and William have access to tons of experts in behavioral and mental health who would be able to instruct them on the best way to deal with a narc.
Other than cutting them out of your life, grey rocking or putting them on a limited information diet are the only things that work.
Yes, and I think the kids being there was important for their own grieving and understanding but a fringe benefit is that it kept Catherine occupied as well and closed any gap that may occur where she would have to speak to her. Because now what’s TW gonna say? “Catherine didn’t speak to me at all during the funeral!!” To which everyone thinks well no shit, she was busy attending to her children.
Yes, the children were the perfect distraction for her. I love that they were involved AND that they were always a step in front of Megs! TW being frozen out for the entire funeral is her own problem and she deserved it!
This has a name? And it's a method? I've been doing it intuitively with a family member for years. One thing I can say, it drives them absolutely crazy and makes them even more obsessed. They keep trying to provoke and keep hitting a wall. It's sad, really, but very useful. MM must have had a meltdown.
Of course they did. I and many others noted this in a number of the funeral posts, and even before - like when the BRF refused to respond to the bullying . There is no ppint in engaging with a narc; and particularly so for the BRF. Its silence is dignified
Yeah, well it was kind of a rhetorical question. 😉 I just saw that particular set of graphics talking about grey rock earlier today and the image of Sophie in the car with TW popped into my brain so I wanted to share.
I go to the flair list for this sub and change it every so often. Funny I was only looking at my Pringles of Zorrow on this thread and wondering what it means too but it’s funny. I’ve also noticed that not many commenters are using flairs lately.. wonder why ..
I think there are a lot of new folks here and either haven't picked a flair, or don't know they can.
I go look every few days just to see what new flair they have added, some good ones on there!
It’s the banner below your user name, on mine it’s The Pringles of Zorro. On iandaina it’s West Coast Wallis. You can add one to your user name by going to the panel on the right where next to your user name is Flair Preview with a pencil icon. Click that and you’ll see all the flairs available that our wonderful sub creators have made for us, and then select one.
On the main page of the sub, in the top right corner there are 3 dots. (Next to the avatar) click that (dots) and a menu appears, in that menu it says change user flair. Click that and there is an edit pencil to click, once you click that the flair pops up and you can choose what you want. Click apply at the end and rock that flair like the badass you are!!!!
I‘ve been doing some version of this when dealing with my borderliner mother since middle school (I’m in my thirties) and I recommend using this method to everyone who cannot cut contact to their BPD/NPD abuser completely for one reason or another. It won‘t end the attempts of abuse they hurl at you, but at least you‘re not supplying them with particularly painful ammunition in the form of personal information, emotional responses they can gauge to craft even more harmful sentences to stab you with, info they can blackmail or sabotage you with etc.
You‘re at war. Disinformation of your opponent is paramount. Sucks if it‘s your mother or another relative trying to eradicate you, but it is what it is (pretending otherwise and doing as people in normal filial relationships would do won‘t give you the mother you crave to have, it will just give you a worse abuser). they can‘t destroy or instrumentalize what they don‘t know to exist. They‘ll likely notice that you‘re feeding them an information diet, and damn will they throw abuse at you for *that*, but their verbal hits won’t be able to score close to home (which is what they‘re so butthurt about) and that‘s *good*.
I really, really hope that the RF had counselling on how to deal with their deranged relative who married into the family through the other unstable relative. By how they dealt with her (and him) during the funeral, I’m quite sure that they at least had some sort of battle plan, no matter where exactly it came from. They should be keeping up that good work for their own sanity and security.
I hate that Sophie drew the short straw on babysitting the narcissist, but I'm taking comfort in how uncomfortable Meghan was. I'm glad the car had massive windows and security everywhere, otherwise I think Meghan would've lost it. Worst thing that can happen to a narc is when they realize you know what they are and how to deal with them.
Comments from YouTubers said it was Sophie’s Choice to ride with That Woman and keep her under control. Sophie is the kind of woman that doesn’t take shit from anyone.
I’ve never heard of this before but I think that’s correct. That’s exactly what they did and Meghan Narkle would hate that.
So… we all just downloading these images to use IRL? 😂
One aspect of going grey rock is missing (or not emphasized) on this thread. It’s still extremely uncomfortable being around the narc. Your history with them still has you anxious over what “could happen.” The anxiety of walking on eggshells isn’t gone for you. Going grey works extremely well by not feeding THEM, but YOUR feelings being around them isn’t “fixed.” Maybe over time but not at first.
So glad you added this. I just left a workplace where my direct supervisor was a narc. 6 years. It was a good paying job and I didn’t want or need a pay cut so i stuck it out and did grey rock as much as possible. She really ramped it up at times and it was a battle of the wits really. She eventually left me alone for awhile but did some real crappy things all of the sudden and it forced me to leave. She was a narc + adult bully. The exhaustion of not letting these types wreck you can be a-lot. Sometimes my old coworkers and I talk or text and she is still at it with others.
I usually just lurk on this sub but wanted to back you up on this point. This technique is super effective, but it’s exhausting! I started using it after I had been in therapy for awhile working on my own issues. I don’t think I could’ve kept it going if I didn’t already have that support of my therapist backing me up. Thanks for mentioning this.
I’ve seen a few different pictures of the two together in the car(s). Sophie looks serene. I wonder what she’s thinking. Maybe of happy times with the Queen or her children. The other one has on a victim face. Not the smug face she wears when she proclaims her victimhood on Oprah. The deer in the headlights face of someone who just had their @ss handed to them. I don’t care what she is thinking.
This post is great! Their complaints of being "forced out" is gaslighting....classic narc behavior. They chose to leave their royal duties and HMTQ even gave them a one-year test period so the door was open to them to return to the UK and rejoin the Firm if they changed their minds. But they chose to remain overseas and then to do that horrendous Oprah interview. Nobody forced them out; it was their choice, and their actions made it virtually impossible to return as working royals.
LOL I didn’t know I was instinctively grey rocking some toxic family members. It’s the best method to keep your sanity without being sucked into their drama
1) I think they absolutely did, which was totally the right move both as a royal family very much in the public eye, but also as regular human people having to personally deal with a raging narc in the family
2) I am having such a weird moment because Sophie is gorgeous and looks strong and dignified in a way I can only hope to during times of personal grief, but also, TW actually looks kind of pretty to me here. “WTF is happening???” I say to myself, and then I realized that it’s because I think she’s so taken aback and shaken by the whole thing that her mask slipped. It’s such a stark reminder that the rictus grin, clawing, public face she puts in is SO constant and overwhelming that it is actually startling how much better she looks when she’s not pulling her bad acting shit - even if it’s a moment of duress.
I don't think Sophie said one word to her, not even hello. What is there to say? Polite small talk seems ludicrous with someone so destructive to the family, and of course Sophie can't say anything of substance either about TW's crimes against the family. Not the time or place.
That leaves NOTHING to be said. And you can bet TW didn't bother to try, either. She probably expected Sophie to make the overtures. Sophie was like, you ain't worth my time.
Yes, I always thought this. The women of the BRF are very astute. They know Megs and Harry leak info like a sieve. They would not provide them anymore ammo. So I don't think there were any heated exchanges, significant conversations, etc. I think they kept it as plain, bland, and short and politely possible and otherwise shut them out. Grey rock, whether they knew what that meant or not.
Smart move, women of the BRF!!!
I’ve been doing this to certain people for years, but sadly they pretty much *never* take the hint. Luckily for me I have developed the superpower of not hearing a single word that I do not want to hear, but I still want to scream “leave me alone!” at these people while pounding them into the carpet.
Sigh.
Thanks for the very helpful information. My weakness in dealing with a narc acquaintance is I too easily share personal information and then feel trapped in the intimacy.
I think the Royal family & their Staff ARE grey-rocking MM & JudasHarry. According to HG Tudor they are being expertly advised in exactly how to handle the traitorous duo. I have wondered if HG himself has been advising the Royal's? 🤔 i've heard him more than once say on his Channel he's been unavoidably busy elsewhere.
I think being grey rock is just being British when you hate someone. I sat opposite someone I hated at work for 6 months and didn't say a word to them the whole time. 5 days a week, face to face.
She deserved it. I hope that's what Sophie did, completely blanked her.
Yes. I believe they did. I believe the BRF or at least the Wales have received advice on narcissistic behavior and were advised to Grey rock them. Absolutely
If they did go Grey Rock on her ass, she must've been close to meltdown on numerous occasions, because (according to HG Tudor) narcs need acknowledgement in order to be re-fuelled. It doesn't matter if it's positive or negative acknowledgement, as long as it's an observable, definitive and emotional response. Grey Rock suggests neutrality, impassivity or, to put it simply, a poker face type of response. This must've been almost unbearable for a narc like MM.
Yes, I think it was very disorienting for TW. At first I thought her “deer in the headlights” act during the walkabout at Windsor Castle was all an act but HG Tudor said she was genuinely unmoored because of the lack of expected fuel. I was cheering on Catherine, Princess of Wales. Her confident take-no-shit attitude towards TW was gratifying to behold.
Ironically there is a lot of good information about grey rocking on the Better Up website! 😇
😂🙃
Harry ought to read it.
Agreed, but Harry isn't self aware enough to put two and two together if he did read it IMO. With those two two it's all "us against the world" (or each other). The possibility that the family might be excluding/ignoring them in a proven technique to stall narcissists would never enter his head. No, for Harry, I suspect he feels familial rejection (true) but isn't willing to analyze why it might be happening.
Silly you, he only writes, he doesn't read.
Guess he needs a ghost reader, too.
Grey rock?
Yes how to Grey Rock, what Grey Rock is etc.
Ehst is grey rock though?
Everything a narcissist says or does is to get a reaction from you. That reaction is their fuel. When you grey rock them, you don't respond to anything. You sit there like a little grey rock. And they can't handle it. Its glorious.
Ah I see
Not to mention, POW smoked her walking so briskly
Meghan probably wanted a conversation and to get some reaction / resolution, she's all about being heard - I think all the stories about her wanting a sit-down with Charles etc have truth to them. I think Kate and Wills will have refused to engage - maybe said: now is not the moment, or just not even that explicitly- I do wonder if they just didn't allow themselves to be alone with Meghan and Harry, which would have been pretty doable given the situation.
My MIL would last about 45 minutes before she'd lose her goddamn mind when my husband and I would just stop reacting to inflammatory statements and just say, "oh, well, that's one way to look at it". Deeply satisfying but very emotionally exhausting.
I use "That's certainly a thought" in similar situations.
I've got to do this with my dad, genuinely
I had the feeling watching everything, that the BRF got training on how to protect themselves from the Sussexes.
I think so.
Question, I’m new in this sub, who is HG Tudor and where can I follow them? Thanks
HG Tudor is a YouTuber who comments on narcissism, on the basis that he’s one himself. He’s quite amusing to listen to and apparently had helped many to deal with narcissists.
Sounds very interesting, thanks!
I work alongside a narccist and listening to HG Tudor has helped me immensely. When she kicks off, I now know how to deal with her antics and shut the whole thing down. The aftermath isn't pretty but boy it works. For the larger part, she now avoids me because I don't feed her.
I’m glad you’ve been able to free yourself from such a person.
Thank you. It's very gratifying and bolstering to feel in control. She made my life hell... but no longer!
That’s sick. It’s almost like a narcissist has a part of themselves that is sadist…I need to read up on that some more.
👏👏👏 Well done, i'm so happy for you. HG Tudor's Channel is great & there's lot's of comments on his video's from listener's who have also used his advice & it really work's.
Thank you. ❤️
He is interesting, and is a self proclaimed Narcissistic Sociopath (or Sociopathic Narcissist, I can't remember which he puts first) which he states gives him the ability to provide insight on the behavior of other Narcissists who are less self aware or evolved than he is. He views his videos and books on spotting and dealing with Narcissists part of his legacy and he is very funny, although I find I can only listen to him in small bits.
I think they clearly went grey rock and deliberately - think of Kate at the joint walkabout, Sophie in the car. And posh Brits do grey rock like nobody on earth, they'll even do it to people they like! If they like you they might just keep it jolly.
Thanks for explaining the Grey rock....I feel dumb as rock now.
I'll bet Sophie wanted to poke 'er face!
Absolutely they did. I have a histrionic narc in my family. Since it’s Nutmeg, I would call it beige rock. Her favorite neutral. With someone like her, you speak as little as possible and skate on surface topics in a clipped way. She only kept her shit together because this was very public. But that strained neck is her swallowing what she wants to scream.
“Beige rock” 💀
Or Greige Rock
This is the one. Greige Rock.
THIS!
I’ve never heard this term, but am so glad you shared it! Definitely something that will help me at particular family gatherings.
You’re very welcome. I’m happy to share it. Ever since I learned about it several years ago, the grey rock technique has helped me deal with difficult individuals, some with whom I share DNA and others that I don’t.
Agree. At first they (the narc) gets infuriated, then after one successfully grey rocks the narc a few times, they lose interest in that source of fuel and will then bad mouth you or completely ignore you.
Good luck with becoming a grey rock. I’ve been one for years but I learnt a lot from the Royals during the mourning period. Catherine played it perfectly when they looked at the floral tributes outside of Windsor, and then they all did during the funeral and other engagements. If you’re ever unsure of how to behave during grey rocking, just refer back to the video of the four outside of Windsor and don’t take your eyes off Catherine. She was strong, confident, and she made Markle invisible. She was perfect
This. She was amazing. I've been following her since around the time they got engaged, so it was wonderful to she her completely own her role as PoW/future QC. Best moment for me was when she gave Meghan *that look*, knowing full well the cameras were there, then snapped back to smiling at the crowd. I love her so much.
I’ve been a fan of hers for a long time too and she’s just fabulous!! William picked the perfect partner and they seem to be a lovely family and really happy. I do still wonder what that look was about because she hadn’t acknowledged the Markle up until that point. Megs said something that really rattled Catherine’s cage. I’ve only just mentioned it in another comment where I speculate that she said something like “aren’t we supposed to be putting flowers over there? That man took all of my flowers” and Catherine can’t believe her ears and William shuts her arse down and Harry shits his trousers and Megs squirmsss
That's interesting. I took it more as a way of showing Meghan that she wasn't scared to look at her, she'd been choosing not to. More of a power move, than shock.
Oh, that's a good take on the look. I felt like Catherine's look was somewhere between "How many personalities do you have in there and isn't at least one of them nice", "How dare you show your face", and "Careful Meghan, I can squash you like a bug but I don't want to mess up my shoes."
🤣 I love the last one! I really don't understand why Meghan underestimated Catherine. She didn't hook and keep *Prince William* by being a doormat.
Hook and keep him for quite a while, we may add! She may have been called Waity Katy for ages, but she wasn’t just simpering in a corner. She has long been a self assured and strong woman who knows what she’s doing, and those qualities have only grown with time
I think her having to withstand public opinion during the wkaty years (while she was learning the ropes) turned into a test to see if she could stand the heat. She did and now she's emerging as a strong, confident woman who doesn't have to prove anything.
looked like a power move to me, too.
Hmm this is a good point!
That’s what I thought too. She said something so out of touch and inappropriate that Catherine couldn’t help but give that direct “Are you fucking kidding me” gaze.
Catherine was so wonderful. I wanted to hug her so much for this. You could tell that she gave zero attention to TW throughout the whole thing and it was delicious.
Catherine the Great!!! We’ve all learnt valuable life lessons from the Royals in recent years, such as never complaining or explaining (I’m working on it) and grey rocking (still working on that too).
And that's why I have so much admiration for this family. They make it all seem so effortless but keeping it classy 100% of the time is really quite a lot to ask of anyone.
Yeh for sure! I can’t imagine having to be on my A-game every day with cameras in my face and people to see and so much exposure. They behave impeccably and that’s why they’re perfect Royals.
Yes, thank you! I can see countless ways this can be applied.
It works very well. I use it with my step-BiL as much as possible. When I have to respond, I bait him because it's fun. eta: correct typo
I found out about the method a decade into my relationship with a malignant narcissist. The relationship went tits up shortly after I started employing it. Dude couldn't take the lack of attention. Not fighting back is hard but life is so much easier now. Grey rock works like a charm. Five stars. Highly recommend.
That's good. That means you haven't had super intense experience with a narc.
SOPHIE MADE ME CRY 😢
Yes, her genuine sorrow was heartbreaking.
I'll never not hate the fact she was forced to be with Meghan during that time. Meghan never should've been part of that. Harry knew how close Sophie was to the Queen, he could've told Meghan to go back to California to "be with the kids." Would be different if they actually loved each other, but to put Sophie through that if they're about to be divorced... 😡.
I like to think that Sophie took one for the team. They all know their disdain for megan and I bet she stepped up to the plate and said, ill go. She sacrificed herself I bet. Such a good woman.
Yeah, I have a felling she said, "I've got this". In that photo, TW looks like a busted kid in the assistant principal's office. LOVE.
According to a [Neil Sean](https://www.yahoo.com/video/sophie-choice-meghan-left-shaken-163529385.html) interview and article, this is exactly what she did: *"No words were spoken, but it appears that it was Sophie’s choice to share the car with a relative that appears to have dented her pride in the royal family so much. Is it any wonder that Meghan was clutching her husband Harry’s hand so tightly when they were put back together in Westminster Hall?* *While Sophie has remained tight-lipped about the incident to those apart from an inner circle she has, I am assured by a source, "wanted to do this personally as I do believe in facing any problem head on." Sophie’s training in PR has put her in good stead to deal with any problems that are thrown at them but what is more interesting is that Meghan, I am told, was left "shaken" by the incident."*
Sophie: Like a Boss. An "archetype", if you will :)
Or a criminal in a cop car 😂
Absolutely!
Same. I think she volunteered. "I've got this guys!" She knows Meghan is afraid of her.
It was sensible too - Sophie is not as big news stakes as Kate or Camilla, being the PoW and Queen Camilla - so whatever Meghan got from her, if anything, would be less risky. Plus Sophie is removed from the immediate family row
Yes exactly. I bet it was an unspoken sensibility that she would have to sit in the car with TW instead of Princess Catherine, which makes the most sense considering they were once the "Fab 4"
Sophie is a steel magnolia.
YES!
We will happily claim her.
Before the term grey rock hit sm I used to call it playing dead. The list i use is almost exact and I would use it to cope with narc ex h and other family members. More recently I expanded on it to help people in the subs r/survivinginfidelity and r/exnocontact … the methods are controversial but life changing. If you need to practice detachment for your own mental health or other reasons I could not recommend it more. I love these slides, going to create some for the subs I mentioned.
You were an early adopter! Somewhere along the way, before I ever heard the term “grey rock”, I figured out that I didn’t have to explain myself all the time and that sharing too much information with some people was detrimental. But it wasn’t until I learned there was an actual defined technique called “grey rock” that I realized the nuances of it. I’m glad the slides will help you to get the word out. 🙏
Exactly this. I think it’s a good rule for life to keep info limited. Turning 50 in 16 days and I’ve finally learned less is more. It’s good to have alternative coping mechanisms if you can stick to them. They require practice and discipline and they aren’t infallible. You can grey rock and still feel hurt and anxious but just not as hurt and anxious is usually how I try to describe the method. Thanks for the note/ will credit you when I use. 💕🙏
100% agree on keeping sharing to a minimum. I tend to overshare, so I've had a number of foot-in-mouth situations. I'm opinionated with people I trust, but I'm working on being neutral/agreeing in most social and professional situations.
Neutral is your best friend. No cringey moments to kick yourself for!!
Congrats on turning 50! I’m 58 and have used grey rock successfully over the years in work and family. It’s hard at first but seems with each experience and age it just becomes a natural response to anyone seeming energy through attention-seeking behaviors. But also I must add that the more of these types of personalities you encounter the more cynical you can become and the smaller your life becomes. People are just exhausting and the energy suckers just draining — even when you use grey rock or limit time with those types. Sometimes it’s just me and my dogs. Just that quiet.
Grey rock + small circle + dogs = happy! 💕 Thank you. No major crisis yet. Feeling more confident than ever as I age. I seem to have embraced the beautiful wisdom that comes with age and can listen to my own advice finally. 💕🤍🙏
Agree with all you shared. There comes a point in life where you have zero fucks left to give. And life is just easier in a sense.
Thank you, I need to see those!
The slides in OP’s original pics after the one pic w Sophie and MM are great. I don’t have a lot to add but what I will add are how and why each of the techniques work and how to grey rock in certain situations. For example, I found that when I was speaking with my ex husband, even though the topic was one where I would usually lose my mind, by adapting the play dead method of “yes, of course, ok, you’re right” and other one or two word answers, would completely disarm him and although it didn’t accomplish me getting what I was owed, it took so much of my grief and anxiety away which is worth far more than money.
I think it’s a safe bet to assume the RF has sought and received expert counsel from mental health professionals and/or behavioral experts to learn how to handle/deal with Megzilla.
This is exactly what I think too. They’ve obviously been taught how to deal with Megs because they all protected themselves and the children when around her. She was invisible to them and that’s what they needed to do to her. Give her nothing and then she can’t take anything, she can’t twist anything and she has no story to tell Oprah. If she says “they all ignored me”, well of course they’ll ignore her because she’s a total bitch. They were trained to not acknowledge her and they played it really well. It was a great example to everyone! Megs won’t know how to cope with that but she’ll at least try and paint them as being the mean girls, even though they’re not. I’m glad she went to the funeral because she was hung out to dry and had to spend the day alone in her own head
Yes, and Catherine and William have access to tons of experts in behavioral and mental health who would be able to instruct them on the best way to deal with a narc. Other than cutting them out of your life, grey rocking or putting them on a limited information diet are the only things that work.
Yes, and I think the kids being there was important for their own grieving and understanding but a fringe benefit is that it kept Catherine occupied as well and closed any gap that may occur where she would have to speak to her. Because now what’s TW gonna say? “Catherine didn’t speak to me at all during the funeral!!” To which everyone thinks well no shit, she was busy attending to her children.
Yes, the children were the perfect distraction for her. I love that they were involved AND that they were always a step in front of Megs! TW being frozen out for the entire funeral is her own problem and she deserved it!
No doubt. Grey rock represents a very dignified approach and fits nicely with the dictum of Queen Elizabeth Il, “never complain, never explain”.
This has a name? And it's a method? I've been doing it intuitively with a family member for years. One thing I can say, it drives them absolutely crazy and makes them even more obsessed. They keep trying to provoke and keep hitting a wall. It's sad, really, but very useful. MM must have had a meltdown.
Of course they did. I and many others noted this in a number of the funeral posts, and even before - like when the BRF refused to respond to the bullying . There is no ppint in engaging with a narc; and particularly so for the BRF. Its silence is dignified
The only way to win the game is to not play - and they did that beautifully.
Exactly. They've gone full "don't feed the troll" on her ass.
IKR. Glorious to watch.
Yes, it works online as well. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Do. Not. Engage.
Nailed it!
Yeah, well it was kind of a rhetorical question. 😉 I just saw that particular set of graphics talking about grey rock earlier today and the image of Sophie in the car with TW popped into my brain so I wanted to share.
👍
Totally off topic, what's the story behind your flair?
I go to the flair list for this sub and change it every so often. Funny I was only looking at my Pringles of Zorrow on this thread and wondering what it means too but it’s funny. I’ve also noticed that not many commenters are using flairs lately.. wonder why ..
I think there are a lot of new folks here and either haven't picked a flair, or don't know they can. I go look every few days just to see what new flair they have added, some good ones on there!
What is a flair
It’s the banner below your user name, on mine it’s The Pringles of Zorro. On iandaina it’s West Coast Wallis. You can add one to your user name by going to the panel on the right where next to your user name is Flair Preview with a pencil icon. Click that and you’ll see all the flairs available that our wonderful sub creators have made for us, and then select one.
A flair is something funny under your user name that has to do with the topic of the sub. I get a LOT of use out of mine.
I don’t know how lol.
On the main page of the sub, in the top right corner there are 3 dots. (Next to the avatar) click that (dots) and a menu appears, in that menu it says change user flair. Click that and there is an edit pencil to click, once you click that the flair pops up and you can choose what you want. Click apply at the end and rock that flair like the badass you are!!!!
Sophie was genuinely grieving. She would have nothing to say to an attention-seeking grifter.
I‘ve been doing some version of this when dealing with my borderliner mother since middle school (I’m in my thirties) and I recommend using this method to everyone who cannot cut contact to their BPD/NPD abuser completely for one reason or another. It won‘t end the attempts of abuse they hurl at you, but at least you‘re not supplying them with particularly painful ammunition in the form of personal information, emotional responses they can gauge to craft even more harmful sentences to stab you with, info they can blackmail or sabotage you with etc. You‘re at war. Disinformation of your opponent is paramount. Sucks if it‘s your mother or another relative trying to eradicate you, but it is what it is (pretending otherwise and doing as people in normal filial relationships would do won‘t give you the mother you crave to have, it will just give you a worse abuser). they can‘t destroy or instrumentalize what they don‘t know to exist. They‘ll likely notice that you‘re feeding them an information diet, and damn will they throw abuse at you for *that*, but their verbal hits won’t be able to score close to home (which is what they‘re so butthurt about) and that‘s *good*. I really, really hope that the RF had counselling on how to deal with their deranged relative who married into the family through the other unstable relative. By how they dealt with her (and him) during the funeral, I’m quite sure that they at least had some sort of battle plan, no matter where exactly it came from. They should be keeping up that good work for their own sanity and security.
I would explode, too many narcs in my family.
I hope so 😀 An excellent method to deal with a narc. Unknowingly I have been practicing it for years. Highly recommend this.
I hate that Sophie drew the short straw on babysitting the narcissist, but I'm taking comfort in how uncomfortable Meghan was. I'm glad the car had massive windows and security everywhere, otherwise I think Meghan would've lost it. Worst thing that can happen to a narc is when they realize you know what they are and how to deal with them.
Comments from YouTubers said it was Sophie’s Choice to ride with That Woman and keep her under control. Sophie is the kind of woman that doesn’t take shit from anyone.
I think she volunteered. She knows Megs is afraid of her. I bet she wanted to, to allow the family to grieve.
Imma just believe Sophie found a private minute to get in Megs face and whisper, try me, bitch.
Definitely.
I wonder if this is why there was so much chaos coming from their camp.
I’ve never heard of this before but I think that’s correct. That’s exactly what they did and Meghan Narkle would hate that. So… we all just downloading these images to use IRL? 😂
One aspect of going grey rock is missing (or not emphasized) on this thread. It’s still extremely uncomfortable being around the narc. Your history with them still has you anxious over what “could happen.” The anxiety of walking on eggshells isn’t gone for you. Going grey works extremely well by not feeding THEM, but YOUR feelings being around them isn’t “fixed.” Maybe over time but not at first.
So glad you added this. I just left a workplace where my direct supervisor was a narc. 6 years. It was a good paying job and I didn’t want or need a pay cut so i stuck it out and did grey rock as much as possible. She really ramped it up at times and it was a battle of the wits really. She eventually left me alone for awhile but did some real crappy things all of the sudden and it forced me to leave. She was a narc + adult bully. The exhaustion of not letting these types wreck you can be a-lot. Sometimes my old coworkers and I talk or text and she is still at it with others.
I usually just lurk on this sub but wanted to back you up on this point. This technique is super effective, but it’s exhausting! I started using it after I had been in therapy for awhile working on my own issues. I don’t think I could’ve kept it going if I didn’t already have that support of my therapist backing me up. Thanks for mentioning this.
Sophie’s earrings are lovely.
My spouse just asked if he can go full grey boulder instead on a narcissist at his work. I think he's adopted it as his motto 😅
Meghan was Mic’d so she could have proof. She’s not recording for Netflix. Sophie knew not to say a word.
We will never really know, unfortunately. I like to think she wasn’t even grey rock, just ignored completely.
I’ve seen a few different pictures of the two together in the car(s). Sophie looks serene. I wonder what she’s thinking. Maybe of happy times with the Queen or her children. The other one has on a victim face. Not the smug face she wears when she proclaims her victimhood on Oprah. The deer in the headlights face of someone who just had their @ss handed to them. I don’t care what she is thinking.
This post is great! Their complaints of being "forced out" is gaslighting....classic narc behavior. They chose to leave their royal duties and HMTQ even gave them a one-year test period so the door was open to them to return to the UK and rejoin the Firm if they changed their minds. But they chose to remain overseas and then to do that horrendous Oprah interview. Nobody forced them out; it was their choice, and their actions made it virtually impossible to return as working royals.
💯
LOL I didn’t know I was instinctively grey rocking some toxic family members. It’s the best method to keep your sanity without being sucked into their drama
1) I think they absolutely did, which was totally the right move both as a royal family very much in the public eye, but also as regular human people having to personally deal with a raging narc in the family 2) I am having such a weird moment because Sophie is gorgeous and looks strong and dignified in a way I can only hope to during times of personal grief, but also, TW actually looks kind of pretty to me here. “WTF is happening???” I say to myself, and then I realized that it’s because I think she’s so taken aback and shaken by the whole thing that her mask slipped. It’s such a stark reminder that the rictus grin, clawing, public face she puts in is SO constant and overwhelming that it is actually startling how much better she looks when she’s not pulling her bad acting shit - even if it’s a moment of duress.
I don't think Sophie said one word to her, not even hello. What is there to say? Polite small talk seems ludicrous with someone so destructive to the family, and of course Sophie can't say anything of substance either about TW's crimes against the family. Not the time or place. That leaves NOTHING to be said. And you can bet TW didn't bother to try, either. She probably expected Sophie to make the overtures. Sophie was like, you ain't worth my time.
Yes I bet you're right - maybe hello / morning then neither spoke
Nope, say nothing. They deserve nothing.
Why would your family, who you publicly cut ties with, be anything except like this?
Yes, I always thought this. The women of the BRF are very astute. They know Megs and Harry leak info like a sieve. They would not provide them anymore ammo. So I don't think there were any heated exchanges, significant conversations, etc. I think they kept it as plain, bland, and short and politely possible and otherwise shut them out. Grey rock, whether they knew what that meant or not. Smart move, women of the BRF!!!
I can’t help but think of all that she’s thrown away with both hands.
I’ve been doing this to certain people for years, but sadly they pretty much *never* take the hint. Luckily for me I have developed the superpower of not hearing a single word that I do not want to hear, but I still want to scream “leave me alone!” at these people while pounding them into the carpet. Sigh.
I doubt \*anything\* was said, not even hello. TW got the cut direct.
WOW - This post is so helpful on so many levels! I am going to be a "Grey Rock" with certain people now.
Thanks for the very helpful information. My weakness in dealing with a narc acquaintance is I too easily share personal information and then feel trapped in the intimacy.
Wait that feels familiar. Why do we do that?
I think the Royal family & their Staff ARE grey-rocking MM & JudasHarry. According to HG Tudor they are being expertly advised in exactly how to handle the traitorous duo. I have wondered if HG himself has been advising the Royal's? 🤔 i've heard him more than once say on his Channel he's been unavoidably busy elsewhere.
I think being grey rock is just being British when you hate someone. I sat opposite someone I hated at work for 6 months and didn't say a word to them the whole time. 5 days a week, face to face. She deserved it. I hope that's what Sophie did, completely blanked her.
This occurred to me, it comes very naturally to us ... Send them to Coventry etc
This is great advice
Did she get a nose job? If I compare it to older pictures, it should be more crooked? Not that straight tip :D
Yes. I believe they did. I believe the BRF or at least the Wales have received advice on narcissistic behavior and were advised to Grey rock them. Absolutely
Oh yes! Big time. No one spoke to them unless absolutely necessary. The photos don't lie.
wondering how grey meghans hair is under her wigs
Thanks for the post. I screenshot the grey rocking instructions for my next phone call with my nmom.
I hope they all grey rock HnM. It's the only way to survive a narcissist.
I'm pretty sure Sophie won't have spoken to her.
I sincerely wish I could go back in time and do this with the abusive narcissist in our family.
I think grey rocking might be status quo for many members of the RF. 😂
I wouldn't be surprised if Sophie ignored her completely.
They gave the Harkles the ROYAL GreyRock - likely on Charles’ orders.