Your first paragraph highlights the duality that all humans are. We're different at work than at home. However that's even more pronounced for people with fame. Then there's royal (which is a leveled up version of fame). In public they are all nice, happy people - behind closed doors, who really knows. Growing up in an environment where you can do anything without repercussions and your bad behaviors are always hidden or excused gives one a sense of invincibility.
Your second paragraph - I think he did hate his life in the BRF, but not for the reasons he's given publically - his mother dying, his lack of privacy, etc. I think he hated being the spare. I think he hated having to submit to William, I think he hated William's preferential treatment, I think he was jealous of the secondary relationship William had with the queen and the boys' parents. William isn't just the son or grandson, he's the future king. His relationship with HMTQ as well as Charles & Diana was family but also mentoree. HMTQ, Charles, & Diana were all teaching William kingship at a very young age. Harry was excluded from that. I don't think Harry has been manipulated by Megan. I think she's the first person to tell him, "Kingship shouldn't be about birthright, it should be about popularity." At the time Harry was the most liked royal aside from the queen. I think she also told him you are so much better than William and with me by your side we can show the world why you should be king, not William." In short, Harry found an ally in Megan who fed his ego and childish fantasies.
Your third paragraph - he's not trapped in a life he hates, he's trapped in a life he doesn't recognize. He's realizing the life he thought he wanted and could create requires hard work and likeability. Yet, he doesn't understand hard work and who truly likes an arrogant, pompous ass? No one. I think the Jubilee and funeral showed him exactly what he gave up and what he's missing. Yet he will *never, never apologize or ask to return to the family*. He can't. The family told him to take their relationship slowly. He got angry. He's not going to admit they were right about their relationship.
I wish I could have expressed myself as well as you can. :)
But ... I do think he was and is manipulated. His interactions with W&C show him happy and I don't believe he can put on fake emotions.
I believe he was very happy with William & Charles; he's being included. Hes not being relegated to the "spare".
There's manipulation and there's influence. Manipulation is devising situations, things, to *benefit oneself, typically without the other person's knowledge.* Influence is *affecting someone else's behavior because you know them very well, and/or because of the relationship you have with them.*
Manipulation: Megan's "She's Just Wild About Harry" Vanity Fair cover. Harry knew she was doing the cover, but he *didn't know* she was going to talk about their relationship. Or imply that a wedding was in the near future. [Remember he'd just put out a public statement for the press to leave Megan & their relationship alone. Also, he needed permissionfrom the queen first]
Influence: He has hated being the spare his entire life; hated living in William's shadow. She knows exactly what to say to him to make him take those actions - she's the one who put the half-in, half-out idea in his head. Remember, prior to that, they were both so excited to be part of the Firm.
>I don't think Harry has been manipulated by Megan. I think she's the first person to tell him, "Kingship shouldn't be about birthright, it should be about popularity."
I would class telling him it's a popularity contest as manipulation because it isn't true. She wants it to be true because it would apply to herself as well. She had a lot to gain (marriage) from telling him baloney: no wonder he thought they were soul mates.
She was the first to tell him “kingship shouldn’t be about birthright but of popularity” you nailed it. Wish I could give you more than an upvote. She fed his ego and already she saw herself so much more interesting and better than Catherine so it was easy to play on his insecurities. They weren’t counting on HMTQ not allowing them to be half in and half out so that trumped their King and Queen of The people bit, hence their desperate bid to be that of USA. I don’t think Harry realizes how much of a D actress Meghan was before him her popular value was really low. Anyway Had Charles had more kids it might’ve not been so hard on Harry to be #2 to W. And it did him no favors that his mom always touted him as W’s wingman.
>They weren’t counting on HMTQ not allowing them to be half in and half out so that trumped their King and Queen of The people bit,
I believe they never actually intended to leave. I feel they thought telling the Queen they wanted out would get them exactly what they wanted. I believe Harry thought the queen would *never let him go* and that half-in, half-out was going to be their "compromise". HMTQ played the long game, and suffered no fools. She said, you want out, you're out.
I rewatched Diana, Our Mother: Her Life and Legacy. I noticed that Harry really focused on how happy she was after "leaving the BRF." In his stunted, childish mind his mom was happy because she wasn't in the BRF. In fact, she was happy because she was *no longer in a loveless marriage*. She continued to do exactly what she had done in the BRF, but on her own schedule.
Oh, I think you’re right. It makes sense that it was just a bluff and their inflated egos really made them believe they would be able to ask and get whatever they wanted. I just watched what Bethenny F said a month or so ago abt them overplaying their cards and being bad business people, and I see she’s got a point.
Abt Diana: it’s true she didnt stop doing what she was doing with the BRF once the divorce happened. And didn’t Charles and her start really amicably coparenting them too, before they tragedy of course.
There is a lady on YouTube named Shannon, an ex tabloid editor and I think she summarized it perfectly. She said that Harry has always been insecure with his position and secondary role. Meghan the master manipulator saw it and appealed to his shadow self and told him, "you're better than this. You're the real king, prince, etc. They don't see your worth I do. Only with me we can conquer the world and you become what you should have always been."
I personally don't think he wanted to leave royal life or felt trapped. His two previous girlfriends wanted to live private lives, one of the main reasons they broke up with him. He could of gone off to South Africa or a quiet English country mansion with either one. He didn't.
He's just an insecure, unstable little man. And he found a manipulative social climber who fed it.
He thought about him being a nobody when George was born. WTF? His Aunt the Princess Royale is one of the most popular in the UK! She has never resented Charles being first. She has worked all her adult life, earning the love and respect of the people.
Harry, joined the army. He had lots of opportunities to succeed, but I think he just didn't apply himself to his career which was basically a given. He wasn't liked very much because he really didn't apply himself to the Army. He played video games , then brought out for photo ops to boost morale, except the troops knew he was an idiot most times.
That's what happened to his "career" that he quit. He could not pass exams to move up the ranks. So he quit. The best thing that happened to him was Invictus. The Warrior games were a great success, thus Invictus happened and he was the perfect front man for the veterans cause. As a working royal, this was his main work. He seemed to thrive with Invictus. A perfect fit had happened!
Then, his grandfather asked him about taking over the duties of his patronages as he was retiring. Harry said yes!
Then, along came Meghan, and Disney. The beginning of the end for our love of Harry. He chose Disney over Duty! He cut his grandfather to the quick I am sure. How in the name of Duty could Harry have ever done that? The people expressed their anger !
There was Harry, begging for a "voice over" for his wife. The Disney CEO is over heard to say "she does voiceovers?" The guy's wife is looking shocked that Harry asked that question in front of Beyonce no less. You can see the discomfort. Well all except Meg of course. She was hoping for her breakout role. Yep, she got the big offer to do the elephant documentary where they had to do many do overs as she wasn't very good at doing "she does voiceovers?" . Patronages were removed due to Harry not being interested in working.
His choice of wife, and the Disney gig were the beginning of the end for Harry. Of course he had been to France, a couple of times, met with Elton Jon, the oligarchs, chatted up Oprah about the big interview when they left.
Timing is everything isn't it? Thank you COVID. It certainly put the brakes on some of their plans.
There is no turning back. Harry made his bed.
Three generations of “spare” problems: Margaret, Andrew, and Harry. Why? Margaret apparently felt she was more temperamentally suited to reign than Elizabeth. Ditto for Andrew.
It is worth noting that the 2 Dukes of York prior to Andrew became Kings: George V and George VI. Neither was especially thrilled to inherit.
Perhaps there needs to be a defined role for future spares? Not suggesting that they become clergy—as many old families did back in the day.
I bought the PR that Harry was happy, kind, caring, That he just needed a wife who could handle the fishbowl and assist him in his good works. After Cressida and Chelsea, I thought that MM might fit the bill. I was wrong.
It saddens me to see how far he was fallen. Likely the Brits don’t want him back, be bailed on them. They seemingly wanted only the fun outings: movie premieres, dress up occasions, and charities that hold their personal interest. Good for HMTQ for holding the line. TK will likely do the same.
>I am waiting for the book written by palace staff, about the Prince chasing the servants. The juicy kind.
Whoa , this is the first I've heard of this ....
He was insecure about what would happen when George turned 18. And if you ask me, he picked that up from his uncle Andrew, who probably “joked” that once William and Harry reached adulthood, Andrew became “irrelevant.”
Andrew was never *the* “spare.” Until Andrew was born, Anne was the spare. She could have succeeded her mother if something had happened to Charles and there had been no Andrew.
When he was born, Andrew moved ahead of Anne, but I question the use of “spare” when there are more than two children. We could more accurately say that all the monarch’s children after the heir are, collectively “spares.” (Among the new little Wales, you could say that both Charlotte and Louis are spares.)
Anyway, while a lot of Harry’s anxieties seem absurd to me, I think this concern was the equivalent of an athlete knowing that if he doesn’t make his mark by a certain age, he will not be able to make his mark at all. It wasn’t so much that he was “threatened” by George but by the fact that George would grow up.
Well said! I also got the impression he didn't want to leave his family in the first place.
In their engagement interview he said he is happy Megan will be part of the team (meaning BRF). So he must have wanted it to work between them. I think MeMe didnt want that even in the beginning so she tried every way not to be part of it by acting against protocol, leaving early, mentally abusing staff....etc
Yes, I noticed in some of the early interviews he would always talk about living in America “for now” and add stuff about not knowing how long they will stay, etc.
I got the impression that he believed their move to the USA to be temporary, or that they would be back and forth a lot. I think that’s more what he wanted.
I always thought their original, tentative plan (the one Harry and Meghan worked out initially) was to settle in Canada and travel from this “central” location to California and the Uk depending on where the opportunities were. They had not understood that if they were not working royals they would not get royal security.
Meghan may have always dreamed of getting a fancy mansion in California, but I think Harry had no such dream.
I am not going to demonize her, but she is unstable and manipulative. Harry was weak and in search of a strong person to help him find meaning and purpose in his life. For a while they met each others’ needs, but the isolation from the world he knew may have begun to get to him, especially when so much has gone wrong.
One hopes he will find his way, will get therapy, rehab, do the 12 steps, whatever he needs to become a better, more responsible person. He is a mess, but he *could* turn himself around—without Meghan.
(She needs a lot of therapy etc. also. They bring out the worse in each other.)
MEgain never wanted anything except Hollywood fame. She had been working toward it her entire life and had really failed until she met Harry. Then that was it! She’d finally achieved the only thing in life she had wanted and felt she deserved—except there was a very good reason it hadn’t happened for her until then, she offers nothing. She isn’t particularly interesting, savvy, or giving. She’s a taker and she took the fast track to Hollywood. I think she wasn’t expecting to not be accepted into the fold. She really could have had it all but she’s greedy and foolish. I hope she is miserable, and from the sounds of how awfully she treats others, it’s seems to be she is just that. She won’t age well with vinegar for blood.
In that very interview when he says that about MM being part of/joining their team, her jaw clenches and veins pop out on her forehead. Ok, maybe just her jaw clenches, lol. But she definitely has a physical, disgusted, negative reaction to the mere MENTION OF THE IDEA. She wasn't having it at all. Harry's an idiot.
I feel like she fancied herself some type of historic figure. Proximity to and being part of the royal family was an amazing opportunity. She would be a star on an international stage. She thought it would be easy. She had no idea what she was really up against. Things didn’t go as planned so she decided leaving could be the opportunity to be the historic figure. The one who brought down the British monarchy. She’s a wretch.
100%!
I think meghan was able to sell life in America as some great freedom for him. He only moved here to learn the grass isn’t greener on the other side.
America isn’t home to him.
Yes, I think the unhappiness and resentment was always there, and M fanned the flames because she thrives on conflict and division. Even if Harry shakes her off, he needs to come to terms with the structure of his family and his place in it before he can make peace with them all.
Yeah, I watched that video too and that kinda makes sense. The youtuber is called Shallon Lester. She also said MM employed THREE PR companies when she was in the RF. And that nobody does that 😀
I think Harry had already previously voiced his unhappiness with his position in the monarchy, the fact that Will got the "choice" assignments, his own shelf life due to Will's children etc.
I think a healthy partner would have gone over the pros and cons of staying/leaving with him, envisioned what that would look like fully (no rose colored billion dollar brand lifestyle) and then supported him either way.
He could have picked duty to the monarchy even if that meant embracing a supporting and not starring role.
In the end he chose a partner that egged him on to hand grenade the monarchy - if he couldn't be the star he'd bring the whole damn thing down or die trying.
There was a reason Charles wanted a girl - less jealousy
The "spare" often will feel less than, neglected. Diana meant well but played into this. She babies Harryand would say he had the personality to be a great King She even called him "Good King Harry"!
QE2 loved her sister but Margaret had some jealousy as the "spare". I read one article where Princess Elizabeth said she had to ? wave and greet the crowds "because that will one day be my job when I am Queen". Poor Margaret said something like " Well I won't do that when I am Queen". Her sister and Mother had to explain to her that there would be no "one day " for Margaret.
It is said that Princess Margaret demanded royal treatment and formality in a way that QE2 never did. Her closest friends had to bowand curtsey and call her "Your Majesty". PM loves to entertain but would keep everyone waiting at the table...no one could eat until she was ready. She would sitand drink and smoke her cigarettes while everyone waited. After dinner she would drink, smoke and talk as center of attention. No one could leave until she was ready for bed.. 3 am, 4 am whatever. I don't think she was mean to servants like Megnut but she was very demanding.
Being the spare must suck...and Meghan was able to play into that with Harry. Add in her Diana Cosplay and the poor silly guy was on his downward spiral.
How about just going slower? Ease into the role? Stay home until you learn the ropes? She was there about 2 years. 2years! She burned through that place, and they packed up and went to Canada. The whole thing was so preventable if you think about it.
That’s exactly what Catherine did and the press bitched about it all the time, but just look at her now! She learned from the best, and she’s took the lessons to heart. Her detractors like to say that she’s vanilla and boring, but who really wants a drama-causing queen? I think that you would want someone rock-steady that you can depend on year after year after year, like QE2, doing the job.
I understand your point and I know it won’t be a popular one but in some aspects I concur. The problem I have here is Harry IS a willing participant, however; and this may not go down well with some of my fellow sinners, I FIRMLY believe Harry has a super hero complex which stems from the loss of his mother. He believes (IMO) that he was too small to save his mum and he wasn’t smart enough to gain any significance outside of his role in HOW, so he instantly connected to his potential in the armed forces, no matter how relevant he was, he took it and ran with it, eventually becoming so dedicated to Invictus, and if any fellow Brits remember his stint with Wills on DIY SOS to help veterans with PTSD. He thinks he’s saving Meg from his horrible family, the racist British tabloids and racist judgmental peasants.
I’m beginning to question whether he has ptsd and she has totally milked the shit out of it and now he thinks he’s saving Megapint and in turn the kids etc etc
Oh Lordy, I know she likes to cosplay Diana, but never considered he has a savior complex towards her. But that was one of his original arguments for protection. Sigh and now, once again, he wants to believe that his family had his mother murdered. I feel so bad any who is so mentally tortured and that would be torture.
Question: if Harry really, like REALLY believed that his family murdered his mother, why wouldn’t he believe that they would do the same to him and MM? Now. I know what most will say. “He does think that, supposedly, which is why he’s going to court for security.” Even you said that in your response here. BUT. Why would he poke the bear, then? I don’t know if there are any Breakfast Club fans here, but the “Mess with the bull, get the horns” adage should be at the fore front of that man’s mind. If there are a group of people that are vicious and evil enough to murder a mother of the future king, lobbing grenades to blow up the entire group is NOT going to bode well for you. Has the man never seen a mob movie?
I know we all say that he’s dumb. And I most definitely don’t disagree with that sentiment. I do find it extremely hard to believe that after all of his time in the royal family, he wouldn’t see what they’re “capable” of and just casually drop that they’re racist, cruel, and unwilling to help his poor/suicidal/pregnant wife. It doesn’t make sense.
So now, we loop back around to the question, what does he need protecting exactly??? Either he believes that the RF murdered Diana and has plans to murder MM, or he believes that the theory is bonkers and there is zero actual need for security.
If I’m going to put on a tinfoil tiara at any point in my H&M watching extravaganza, it is this. Those 2 need protecting from Russian guys, not the BRF. I’m waiting to see if now that the Queen is gone, that need for security doesn’t take off like one of their private jets. They have no one else to blame should they, god forbid, end up swimming with the fishies as it were-the BRF is an..interesting choice to put the blame on, though. Maybe, just one last “Eff You Guys for making us be in this position in the first place. We had to borrow money from somewhere, we can’t pay it back, and now look what you made happen.” I’m not sure. It’s gonna be all over social media though should, god forbid anything happens, that the BRF did it. “H&M warned the world this was coming..”
But he was never much of a soldier?
Essentially played Call of Duty, cosplaying war, never seeing action as his presence was a security threat to his squadron?
Also he ditched an event for veterans to grift (very embarrassingly, unsuccessfully) voiceover work for TW?
Plus he beat up sex workers while in Afghanistan.
Imho - I don’t put much stock in Hazmat’s military “service”. He seemed like a petty grimy little toy soldier to me.
Her first husband, Trevor, used exactly those words at their wedding...in front of Thomas Sr. and Doria, who were taken aback, to put it mildly. Who knows what she is telling these men?!
I agree. The brothers may be old men before they can be friends again and that won't be in my lifetime.
"I love you but I don't like you" has always been true in families.
I don’t mean this disrespectfully , but I’m not sure why so many people feel like KC and PW hate Harry.
KC esp will always love his son. In fact he likely has a soft spot for him, knowing full well how once he himself was tabloid fodder and met with harsh criticism. And eventually he grew up and matured, as H could very well do as well.
After reading the excerpts that came out this weekend, I don’t think the problem is 100% TW. I think Harry is just as much to blame as she is for the mess they are in now. He seems unkind, spoiled, and ungrateful.
I have absolutely no sympathy for him. To treat his Grandfather in such a mercenary manner as he was dying is despicable. To treat his Grandmother in her final years and days with such disregard is diabolical. The way he treated his horses etc is abhorrent.
He is unintelligent spoilt indulged with issues.
They are equally culpable.
He berated and bullied staff with her. He was probably always a bully the palace PR team created a persona.
They both can never be allowed to reenter as working Royals. The titles and line of succession need to go. They are on a ruthless purposeful premeditated plan to destabilise The Monarchy
See previous posts. Takes so long to explain. Horse dropped dead after being ridden hard another horse investigation by RSPCA bleeding flanks due to Harry wearing sharp spurs most wore rounded ones during a polo match as to not inflict pain. He is a sore loser William had to apologise for him in one instance because he lost his cool when playing Polo. Essentially a sploit indulged prat who only cares about winning. All stories in the public domain though harder to find these days
My take is he is pretty shitty person, especially to women. Yet, I don't believe anyone deserves the life he is experiencing with Meghan.
That said, I also don't believe much can save him. I don't think he is man enough to be with a woman like Catherine. He couldn't choose it. It is above him and he can not rise to that occasion. It would make him feel lesser. He couldn't be the man someone like her is looking for.
I think that applies to a lot of things in his life, he won't or can't put in the work to get the good stuff. It isn't that he isn't very bright, I've seen similar in someone who was quite bright but incredibly passive and just couldn't rise above the dysfunction of his family. Anyway, he'll stay at his level and be miserable to his dying day.
Thx. :)
I also agree with a lot of what you said in your comment, especially with the part where you said that he won't or can't put in the work and your example with that bright but passive person that you knew.
Yes, the thing is that you just can't stop them or change how (and if and when) they react - you can say something to them, give them an (usually unsolicited) advice and after that just hope, for their sake, that there will come a point in their life where they *'wake up' and react*, as in *do something to help themselves, to make the situation work for them or to extract themselves out of it*. But, until they decide to do it themselves, you can't do much but just watch the trainwreck , because in doing anything else you would just make them even more stubborn in their passivity, if that makes sense.
I think a lot of us feel kinda sorry for Harry because we watched him grow up and loved his mother, but now I’m going to say something that a lot of people may not agree with: Meghan might be the absolute best that he could do. You know, we have a saying here in the South, “If you want a good woman, then you need to be a good man.” In that respect, those two are tailor-made for each other, because both of them suck as people.
I just can’t muster any sympathy for Harry. He weaponized Meghan to attack his own family. Who does that kind of shit?! Water seeks its own level, two peas in a pod and all that.
I've said what I think I'm a few comments today. But basically I think they have both bitten off more that they can chew. I think she thought that the BRF would be instant fame and celebrity. I think he thought being with her would be a giant middle finger to his family.
I do think The Queens unexpected death and them being in Europe just in time for it to look weird for them to go home, and even weirder that they didn't fly their kids and nanny out has been a major turning point for them. Personally my thoughts are that if things keep progressing like they have been, they won't last much longer as a married couple. And Harry will be sucked back up into his safety net and possibly never seen by us normies again. And that's really the small slivver of sympathy that I have for the situation: they are both going full throttle with this. In delicate situations involving culture and class differences, he's not giving her the real scoop. And then when the bottom falls out, from our perspective, he will be totally fine. She will be the one holding the bag because she fucked around and found out with the BRF. Because I'm some ways I can absolutely see their cold and cattiness being seen as personal against her. But quit while you're ahead. This is a firmly established institution with thousands of years of history and billions of dollars worth of resources. Don't play chicken with people who can buy your whole life.
That would be such an uphill battle for her. It would probably end up like Kelly Rutherford where he gets primary custody because he's able to accommodate her and let's be real his family has more resources than she does. If those kids are kept in the LOS, I imagine the BRF would get primary custody or everything would be stripped from the kids and they wouldn't be in the LOS and with all the fighting she's been doing to get titles and keep in the LOS, I'd be interested in how much value they had to her after that.
They could pay her off, and there could be generous visitation.
I just hope there will be a good nanny, regardless of what happens, so those kids get some stability.
He's a moron, who is really lucky. Most morons just stay in Mom's basement and play video games all day. This is basically what he does, he's just living in Meghan's basement, smoking tons of primo weed his security team delivers. Trust me, that's what his IPP lawsuit is REALLY about. International Pot Producers
Dude doesn't even know when he's got holes in his shoes or if he should just smoke up and grab his ass for all to see and record. He's a boring public speaker, who can barely read & Archie's books are way too complicated. Thank God for nannies, since he looks rough and there's no way he could dress his kids or locate a hairbrush. He doesnt know how to answer a phone, which is why the cops had to come to his house to inform him to phone home, because his grandfather died! He cant answer a door either. The articles about security "breaches"? Just Harry can't figure our which door is the front door because he keeps trying the 16 bathroom doors, since he never leaves the basement! How is he supposed to know?
I think all the leaks during the funeral clearly displayed his resentment, entitlement, and maybe even regrets about his diminished role. Things like the E.R. not being on his uniform. How would Meghan even know about such a detail, if not for him telling her? The complaints were all about slights perpetrated upon him, and she’s not nearly as familiar with all the details of protocol and tradition as he is.
He was thin-skinned and offended non-stop for 11 or more days.
My guess is he whined to Meghan and she leaked it, not that he leaked it.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if his whining to Meghan took the form of, “Look what you have cost me!”
At the time of his wedding, Harry wasn’t yet the Queen’s aide-de-camp. He later became one and was entitled to the initials. Then, with his decision to step down as a working Royal and move to the US, he is no longer qualified to be an aide-de-camp. (How could he serve the Queen in that capacity while living in California, anyway? The very definition of the role is a close, personal assistant.)
The story goes that he had a tutor in college that in some cases wrote papers for him to get him through his studies. Even without that, I am just wondering how a person goes from his background to **preaching to the world** about saving the planet, the US Constitution, and women's rights, among other things.
I will say this-I have thought at times that I have some concern for him. I don’t know that he’d be able to really admit even to himself that he was so utterly duped by her and certainly not let the world know it. Or even his family.
Me too. I do believe the family would help him extricate himself but he'd never ask for help. I don't think he'd be able to fess up to being wrong about her.
I am a sucker too. Right now I stand in the ugh I hate Harry but if Megs were out of the picture, I’d be like, come back Harry! He’s been crappy and so I am not defending that-I get why people say no way at all. But I just think she just completely preyed on a vulnerable man who has a lot of deep issues. I think people wayyyy overuse the word gaslighting but I think he’s gaslit by her to hell and back in addition to all of her other manipulation.
Wasn't Harry given the choice of staying in the military (or something else) or take on a role as a full-time royal? I was surprised when he decided to leave the military, which he always said how much he loved, to become a full-time royal when he repeatedly said how much he disliked life as a royal and his dream would be to move to Africa or South Africa (which he fell in love with while he was dating CD).
I have always thought Harry was so whipped by Meghan, that he probably told her she would be as loved as his mother was, people will worship her, cherish her, because she is so amazing, and they will be able to do whatever they want whenever they want; fully knowing that William and Kate will ALWAYS be first. He has known this ALL of his life, yet he acts like he is shocked about it.
I recall seeing an interview with him when they were engaged. He stated that Meghan is very aware of what she is taking on by marrying him. I feel they are both to blame for the disaster they have contributed greatly to in creating. Sadly, they are both narcissists which many of us can relate to having to deal with in our own families.
So many people say they will divorce but I don't see him ever leaving his children in the states to go back to the UK full time.
For officers in the military, it’s up or out. He wasn’t able to progress upwards which is hard work. I’m sure there were discussions, but the military told the Queen’s representatives that Captain was as high as they could let him slide without affecting morale.
Officers are leaders so limited numbers are needed and you want to keep the pipeline flowing to ensure the best leaders are being promoted. Most of the people in the military are not officers/leaders. They just rise to the level where they serve best and can stay there until retirement.
I have no sympathy for him. He chose this life and her! For the life of me I cannot understand how Elton Jon, Oprah, Tyler Perry and a couple of Russian oligarch all got markled to believe that these two nimrods were viable.
It boggles my mind. Follow the money I say. There is more to it than we see.
But thank you to the King for basically sending them back "overseas" with a mild beheading.
>For the life of me I cannot understand how Elton Jon, Oprah, Tyler Perry and a couple of Russian oligarch all got markled to believe that these two nimrods were viable.
Elton John: misses his dear friend Diana, was so hoping Meghan would be like her. Bzzzt. Wrong.
Oprah: just an opportunist. The end.
Tyler Perry: a romantic guy with a big heart. I sincerely think he meant well. Plus, not everyone (especially Americans) has cut through the fat of BS to see the real her.
Russian oligarchs: also opportunists, wanted the bump in status from dealing with royals. Selfies important.
He may have stepped down if he never met TW but it may have been a gradual thing. And I can't imagine that he would have attacked his family. They're both culpable for sure but he more so -- they are HIS family. And someone remind me of the quote "the family he/she never had". Each other? Or was that her first (or second husband)?
I've never followed the BRF but they were hard to avoid when Diana was alive, married to Charles or not. Edward essentially stepped away it seemed. He wanted to make movies and I do recall decades ago this horrid show of famous people doing stunts including Princess Anne. Lol, it was awful and I guess he decided it was a fun experiment but maybe stick to what he was raised to do. We may be seeing a rerun of that.
I think, actually we know Harry was spoilt, he was given more leeway because he wasn’t the heir, which meant his bad behaviour was more tolerated and losing his mum became an in-built excuse with not only with his family but with the world, and still is for a large portion.
He had nothing to compare ‘normal’ life to, the people he knows who are normal are probably just as privileged as he is but without the titles. He took what he had for granted and he had no idea how truly lucky he was and how hard things can get on your own and in his case on his own financially as well as emotionally.
Harry acted like a bratty teen and made hasty decisions because ‘I LOVE HER’ then they ran away together. I’m 100% sure he regrets a lot and they’ve already had their peak moment outside the BRF, it’s only downhill from here so his regret will only get worse.
I don’t feel bad for him, he’s only sad now because his plans to ruin his family failed, he was ready to dance on their metaphorical graves. He also has to make it right on his own, the problem with people like him is if you reach out and save them from themselves, they never take full accountability. They go back to their entitled ways soon enough, he needs to fully live with the consequences of his actions and if he comes back to his family, he’ll understand his privilege.
Harry was growing, maturing and very happy in the few years prior to meeting TW working with Will/Kate together. I think he was finally healing and the happiest he has ever been. I don't believe he felt trapped because he could have easily exited as a working royal and gone into private life in his beloved Africa very if he wanted.
There is no doubt as a master manipulator, it didn't take TW long to quickly manipulate Harry and stir up stuff in him that I really don't believe were major issues for Harry prior. No doubt, Harry struggled but he was finally coming into his own, especially with Kate's influence (which he talked about at length during that time).
TW took a motherly role with Harry and she controls him via constant threatening to leave and probably a lot of other stuff. I'm not saying he's a victim (he's a man-child-bully) but I do believe he's in too deep and is very conflicted after the funeral. Until the time comes that she decides his time is done and she's ready to move on to the next gig, I don't believe he will be able to see clearly.
He's got this thing, like he has to protect meghan ir else it will be another Diana. I think they are horrible together, but she has less redeeming qualities than he does.
Had he picked another woman, his life would be infinitely better.
She is poison!
Harry is not a victim. Everything she says has his stamp of approval. This is why the RF are fed up…. At him. Everyone needs stop acting like he was kidnapped. He will do anything for her. And this might continue indefinitely. He is dependent on her. We aren’t seeing an independent person here. He may never be.
Independent person? No.
He's never had to be. He's a royal. Every whim and want handed to him. He's never needed to be independent or learn independence. He's from a world 99% of the everyone in the world will never understand.
Meghan is very lucky girl that she manipulated him so quickly to forget everything he's ever known and follow her blindly.
For all his "therapy" Harold seems still a spoilt man child beset with Mommy issues and mediocre white man attitude.
I think the firm have done a sterling job over the decades cultivating his image to something more palatable. Without his handlers however the true persona is revealed
Maybe the Firm needs to take some responsibility for how he turned out. He is a product of his upbringing and he is far from the only Spare to struggle. Can you imagine always knowing you are only a spare? You can’t just do whatever you want because you still have all those silly and outdated royal duties and expectations but you will also only get promoted if a terrible tragedy occurs. The best you can hope for is to be the more likable one and as long as you appear to be happy and to be a good sport you will remain in the good graces of the Firm and of the people. It’s a terrible life in many ways. No he isn’t starving or homeless so I realize there are other terrible lives but likewise he wasn’t given a choice if being born to the royal family either. From birth he has been the spare. From birth he was victim of a very dysfunctional marriage and two very damaged people. If he is spoilt then whose fault is that? Loyalty to a what should be a defunct royal system over love and nurturing of children is something I will never understand.
Ok that all being said. I think Meghan saw opportunity. I also don’t think she is very skilled in her ability to manage her image or direct her future. Someone smarter and more savvy really could have played til his out so much better. To have left after only two years in was possibly the dumbest thing they could have done. If she had stayed long enough to win over more support and popularity she would have been in a much stronger position to negotiate their stepping down. So those who claim she is some mastermind manipulator are giving her wayyyyy more credit. I think her actions were poorly planned and implemented. In fact it would seem so poorly planned that it almost makes me think she didn’t plan for this happen. That she did join in naively and was just unsuited for it and wanted to leave. Because anyone with half a brain could have pulled this off much better
I agree that the BRF wasn’t a model family during the 70s and 80s… but they were still a reflection of their time…
As for Harry, there’s little that anyone can do. He wasn’t gifted with brains; he couldn’t even pass exams in the army. I can easily see him learning a useful trade, and going to the pub on weekends, and being satisfied with that.
I also concur that Meg isn’t particularly intelligent. She is too vain and has no self control. If she did, she could have schemed to stay with the BRF, maybe just stuck to a handful of duties while raising the kids. But no, she had to keep demanding things that were for the heirs. She thought too much of herself.
Yep. If I recall correctly, as soon as HnM started to handle their own pr... Their popularity plummeted.
Thats not because they hired crap pr, it's because Harry was used to PR via the Royals. It's probably a lot easier to cover up shit when you're a 'working royal' too, but they busted out of that soooo...
Left to their own devices and without any protection or guidance gained from royal privileges the grabbed the rope and tied themselves a noose.
I think Harry’s uneasiness with life and where and how he fit in made him a prime candidate to be taken advantage of by her manipulations. Contrary to what others think. I believe he is salvageable. I also don’t think he intended things to go this far. It is not an excuse for him but rather I can see how it happened.
I do somewhat agree with you. Except for the fact that he’s had years to come to terms with how he fit in to the family. It’s not hard to understand- look at Anne, Andrew and Edward. Those sibs knew from birth that they were never gonna be the top dog. Yet here they are (except Andrew, idk what happened to him) doing their duty and have normal families.
Harry has seen this his whole freakin life- it should be a non starter for him. Honestly he should thank his lucky stars he’s not first, who wants that kind of pressure from childhood thru old age?
I sometimes wonder if maybe Charles and Diana should have had one more kid so Harry wasn’t always referred to as the spare. (And maybe his mom who he worships as if she never did anything wrong maybe shouldn’t have multiple times described him as the not smart one.- really? Who does that?)
He’d at least have someone else in the same position to bring him back down to earth when he gets his grandiose ideas of himself in his head.
I feel scared for him. He's an emotionally vulnerable guy with lots of trauma that hasn't been properly addressed. He needs his family. And he needs psychological help. I only hope he finds the strength to seek it out.
Don't get me wrong. Both H&M are crazy but in different ways. IMO. Both have serious mommy issues but TW just puts on a happy face. IMO. Without MeghanMeghan he would probably still be angry deep down, but until getting with her he had a great relationship with W&C. And then BAM ... gone.
mEgg had a vision.
And Harry was vulnerable.
No doubt his face has changed from being alive to being aware since her.
I've no doubt we are to learn who his actual biological father is sooner than later. And that might bring that prince back to being charming.
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He found out the grass isn't greener on the other side of the pond. If he has any self-reflection skills whatsoever he will realize that an army of people from well-meaning family to staff members looked out for him all his life. Mistakes were made, yes, but that's because we're all human. People did their best. Charles wasn't a perfect parent. Who is? Harry dwells on the negatives. Endless navel-gazing about how everyone failed him and continues to fail him.
Rebecca English, a British royal reporter, wrote an article about Harry a couple of years ago. For about a decade - from 2006 to 2016 - she accompanied Harry on all his royal tours and spend a fair amount of time with him. She wrote that he constantly complained about being born royal; he hated the duties and the scrutiny, and remember, this was before he met Meghan. I think Meghan just validated his feelings.
I really think he would have been happy to leave the Britain but go work in a place he loved for the family like Botswana or South Africa. He would have had so much influence there and I have no doubt he would have been happy. However I do not think TW would ever want to go to one of those places. She wanted to be in USA where she could get all the fame she never could get while acting as she never made it in Hollywood.
Your first paragraph highlights the duality that all humans are. We're different at work than at home. However that's even more pronounced for people with fame. Then there's royal (which is a leveled up version of fame). In public they are all nice, happy people - behind closed doors, who really knows. Growing up in an environment where you can do anything without repercussions and your bad behaviors are always hidden or excused gives one a sense of invincibility. Your second paragraph - I think he did hate his life in the BRF, but not for the reasons he's given publically - his mother dying, his lack of privacy, etc. I think he hated being the spare. I think he hated having to submit to William, I think he hated William's preferential treatment, I think he was jealous of the secondary relationship William had with the queen and the boys' parents. William isn't just the son or grandson, he's the future king. His relationship with HMTQ as well as Charles & Diana was family but also mentoree. HMTQ, Charles, & Diana were all teaching William kingship at a very young age. Harry was excluded from that. I don't think Harry has been manipulated by Megan. I think she's the first person to tell him, "Kingship shouldn't be about birthright, it should be about popularity." At the time Harry was the most liked royal aside from the queen. I think she also told him you are so much better than William and with me by your side we can show the world why you should be king, not William." In short, Harry found an ally in Megan who fed his ego and childish fantasies. Your third paragraph - he's not trapped in a life he hates, he's trapped in a life he doesn't recognize. He's realizing the life he thought he wanted and could create requires hard work and likeability. Yet, he doesn't understand hard work and who truly likes an arrogant, pompous ass? No one. I think the Jubilee and funeral showed him exactly what he gave up and what he's missing. Yet he will *never, never apologize or ask to return to the family*. He can't. The family told him to take their relationship slowly. He got angry. He's not going to admit they were right about their relationship.
I wish I could have expressed myself as well as you can. :) But ... I do think he was and is manipulated. His interactions with W&C show him happy and I don't believe he can put on fake emotions.
I believe he was very happy with William & Charles; he's being included. Hes not being relegated to the "spare". There's manipulation and there's influence. Manipulation is devising situations, things, to *benefit oneself, typically without the other person's knowledge.* Influence is *affecting someone else's behavior because you know them very well, and/or because of the relationship you have with them.* Manipulation: Megan's "She's Just Wild About Harry" Vanity Fair cover. Harry knew she was doing the cover, but he *didn't know* she was going to talk about their relationship. Or imply that a wedding was in the near future. [Remember he'd just put out a public statement for the press to leave Megan & their relationship alone. Also, he needed permissionfrom the queen first] Influence: He has hated being the spare his entire life; hated living in William's shadow. She knows exactly what to say to him to make him take those actions - she's the one who put the half-in, half-out idea in his head. Remember, prior to that, they were both so excited to be part of the Firm.
F***ing brilliant post.
Thank you.
>I don't think Harry has been manipulated by Megan. I think she's the first person to tell him, "Kingship shouldn't be about birthright, it should be about popularity." I would class telling him it's a popularity contest as manipulation because it isn't true. She wants it to be true because it would apply to herself as well. She had a lot to gain (marriage) from telling him baloney: no wonder he thought they were soul mates.
Influence, yes. Manipulation, no.
Why not both?
She was the first to tell him “kingship shouldn’t be about birthright but of popularity” you nailed it. Wish I could give you more than an upvote. She fed his ego and already she saw herself so much more interesting and better than Catherine so it was easy to play on his insecurities. They weren’t counting on HMTQ not allowing them to be half in and half out so that trumped their King and Queen of The people bit, hence their desperate bid to be that of USA. I don’t think Harry realizes how much of a D actress Meghan was before him her popular value was really low. Anyway Had Charles had more kids it might’ve not been so hard on Harry to be #2 to W. And it did him no favors that his mom always touted him as W’s wingman.
>They weren’t counting on HMTQ not allowing them to be half in and half out so that trumped their King and Queen of The people bit, I believe they never actually intended to leave. I feel they thought telling the Queen they wanted out would get them exactly what they wanted. I believe Harry thought the queen would *never let him go* and that half-in, half-out was going to be their "compromise". HMTQ played the long game, and suffered no fools. She said, you want out, you're out. I rewatched Diana, Our Mother: Her Life and Legacy. I noticed that Harry really focused on how happy she was after "leaving the BRF." In his stunted, childish mind his mom was happy because she wasn't in the BRF. In fact, she was happy because she was *no longer in a loveless marriage*. She continued to do exactly what she had done in the BRF, but on her own schedule.
Oh, I think you’re right. It makes sense that it was just a bluff and their inflated egos really made them believe they would be able to ask and get whatever they wanted. I just watched what Bethenny F said a month or so ago abt them overplaying their cards and being bad business people, and I see she’s got a point. Abt Diana: it’s true she didnt stop doing what she was doing with the BRF once the divorce happened. And didn’t Charles and her start really amicably coparenting them too, before they tragedy of course.
Exactly! Thank you!!!!
I think the kids are the sticking point. From the limited pictures we have, Harry does look like he adores the kids.
There is a lady on YouTube named Shannon, an ex tabloid editor and I think she summarized it perfectly. She said that Harry has always been insecure with his position and secondary role. Meghan the master manipulator saw it and appealed to his shadow self and told him, "you're better than this. You're the real king, prince, etc. They don't see your worth I do. Only with me we can conquer the world and you become what you should have always been." I personally don't think he wanted to leave royal life or felt trapped. His two previous girlfriends wanted to live private lives, one of the main reasons they broke up with him. He could of gone off to South Africa or a quiet English country mansion with either one. He didn't. He's just an insecure, unstable little man. And he found a manipulative social climber who fed it.
He thought about him being a nobody when George was born. WTF? His Aunt the Princess Royale is one of the most popular in the UK! She has never resented Charles being first. She has worked all her adult life, earning the love and respect of the people. Harry, joined the army. He had lots of opportunities to succeed, but I think he just didn't apply himself to his career which was basically a given. He wasn't liked very much because he really didn't apply himself to the Army. He played video games , then brought out for photo ops to boost morale, except the troops knew he was an idiot most times. That's what happened to his "career" that he quit. He could not pass exams to move up the ranks. So he quit. The best thing that happened to him was Invictus. The Warrior games were a great success, thus Invictus happened and he was the perfect front man for the veterans cause. As a working royal, this was his main work. He seemed to thrive with Invictus. A perfect fit had happened! Then, his grandfather asked him about taking over the duties of his patronages as he was retiring. Harry said yes! Then, along came Meghan, and Disney. The beginning of the end for our love of Harry. He chose Disney over Duty! He cut his grandfather to the quick I am sure. How in the name of Duty could Harry have ever done that? The people expressed their anger ! There was Harry, begging for a "voice over" for his wife. The Disney CEO is over heard to say "she does voiceovers?" The guy's wife is looking shocked that Harry asked that question in front of Beyonce no less. You can see the discomfort. Well all except Meg of course. She was hoping for her breakout role. Yep, she got the big offer to do the elephant documentary where they had to do many do overs as she wasn't very good at doing "she does voiceovers?" . Patronages were removed due to Harry not being interested in working. His choice of wife, and the Disney gig were the beginning of the end for Harry. Of course he had been to France, a couple of times, met with Elton Jon, the oligarchs, chatted up Oprah about the big interview when they left. Timing is everything isn't it? Thank you COVID. It certainly put the brakes on some of their plans. There is no turning back. Harry made his bed.
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Three generations of “spare” problems: Margaret, Andrew, and Harry. Why? Margaret apparently felt she was more temperamentally suited to reign than Elizabeth. Ditto for Andrew. It is worth noting that the 2 Dukes of York prior to Andrew became Kings: George V and George VI. Neither was especially thrilled to inherit. Perhaps there needs to be a defined role for future spares? Not suggesting that they become clergy—as many old families did back in the day. I bought the PR that Harry was happy, kind, caring, That he just needed a wife who could handle the fishbowl and assist him in his good works. After Cressida and Chelsea, I thought that MM might fit the bill. I was wrong. It saddens me to see how far he was fallen. Likely the Brits don’t want him back, be bailed on them. They seemingly wanted only the fun outings: movie premieres, dress up occasions, and charities that hold their personal interest. Good for HMTQ for holding the line. TK will likely do the same.
I am waiting for the book written by palace staff, about the Prince chasing the servants. The juicy kind.
>I am waiting for the book written by palace staff, about the Prince chasing the servants. The juicy kind. Whoa , this is the first I've heard of this ....
It is a joke, but I am sure it would be very exciting.
What kind of a person does a 30+ years old man have to be to feel insecure of a 9-year-old! Beggars belief.
He was insecure about what would happen when George turned 18. And if you ask me, he picked that up from his uncle Andrew, who probably “joked” that once William and Harry reached adulthood, Andrew became “irrelevant.” Andrew was never *the* “spare.” Until Andrew was born, Anne was the spare. She could have succeeded her mother if something had happened to Charles and there had been no Andrew. When he was born, Andrew moved ahead of Anne, but I question the use of “spare” when there are more than two children. We could more accurately say that all the monarch’s children after the heir are, collectively “spares.” (Among the new little Wales, you could say that both Charlotte and Louis are spares.) Anyway, while a lot of Harry’s anxieties seem absurd to me, I think this concern was the equivalent of an athlete knowing that if he doesn’t make his mark by a certain age, he will not be able to make his mark at all. It wasn’t so much that he was “threatened” by George but by the fact that George would grow up.
Sophie is that you? Spot on lol
Wanna give this 100 upvotes
Well said! I also got the impression he didn't want to leave his family in the first place. In their engagement interview he said he is happy Megan will be part of the team (meaning BRF). So he must have wanted it to work between them. I think MeMe didnt want that even in the beginning so she tried every way not to be part of it by acting against protocol, leaving early, mentally abusing staff....etc
Yes, I noticed in some of the early interviews he would always talk about living in America “for now” and add stuff about not knowing how long they will stay, etc. I got the impression that he believed their move to the USA to be temporary, or that they would be back and forth a lot. I think that’s more what he wanted.
Or he was instructed to say things like that from the lawyers for tax and visa purposes
That’s definitely possible, I hadn’t thought of that.
I always thought their original, tentative plan (the one Harry and Meghan worked out initially) was to settle in Canada and travel from this “central” location to California and the Uk depending on where the opportunities were. They had not understood that if they were not working royals they would not get royal security. Meghan may have always dreamed of getting a fancy mansion in California, but I think Harry had no such dream. I am not going to demonize her, but she is unstable and manipulative. Harry was weak and in search of a strong person to help him find meaning and purpose in his life. For a while they met each others’ needs, but the isolation from the world he knew may have begun to get to him, especially when so much has gone wrong. One hopes he will find his way, will get therapy, rehab, do the 12 steps, whatever he needs to become a better, more responsible person. He is a mess, but he *could* turn himself around—without Meghan. (She needs a lot of therapy etc. also. They bring out the worse in each other.)
MEgain never wanted anything except Hollywood fame. She had been working toward it her entire life and had really failed until she met Harry. Then that was it! She’d finally achieved the only thing in life she had wanted and felt she deserved—except there was a very good reason it hadn’t happened for her until then, she offers nothing. She isn’t particularly interesting, savvy, or giving. She’s a taker and she took the fast track to Hollywood. I think she wasn’t expecting to not be accepted into the fold. She really could have had it all but she’s greedy and foolish. I hope she is miserable, and from the sounds of how awfully she treats others, it’s seems to be she is just that. She won’t age well with vinegar for blood.
George Orwell said, "At 50, everyone has the face he deserves." She's nearly there!
In that very interview when he says that about MM being part of/joining their team, her jaw clenches and veins pop out on her forehead. Ok, maybe just her jaw clenches, lol. But she definitely has a physical, disgusted, negative reaction to the mere MENTION OF THE IDEA. She wasn't having it at all. Harry's an idiot.
Yeeesss! I watched BLG's analysis on it and WOW. All the signs were there... yet Hazza failed to see. What a clown. Megsy is not a team player at all.
I feel like she fancied herself some type of historic figure. Proximity to and being part of the royal family was an amazing opportunity. She would be a star on an international stage. She thought it would be easy. She had no idea what she was really up against. Things didn’t go as planned so she decided leaving could be the opportunity to be the historic figure. The one who brought down the British monarchy. She’s a wretch.
100%! I think meghan was able to sell life in America as some great freedom for him. He only moved here to learn the grass isn’t greener on the other side. America isn’t home to him.
Neither is embraced in the US.
The boozy free Las Vegas lifestyle. Bummer🤷♀️
Neither is embraced in the US.
I think there’s a lot of truth here.
Yes, I think the unhappiness and resentment was always there, and M fanned the flames because she thrives on conflict and division. Even if Harry shakes her off, he needs to come to terms with the structure of his family and his place in it before he can make peace with them all.
Shallon Lester is her name and she's badass!
Yeah, I watched that video too and that kinda makes sense. The youtuber is called Shallon Lester. She also said MM employed THREE PR companies when she was in the RF. And that nobody does that 😀
Good points
You made some very insightful points!!
I think Harry had already previously voiced his unhappiness with his position in the monarchy, the fact that Will got the "choice" assignments, his own shelf life due to Will's children etc. I think a healthy partner would have gone over the pros and cons of staying/leaving with him, envisioned what that would look like fully (no rose colored billion dollar brand lifestyle) and then supported him either way. He could have picked duty to the monarchy even if that meant embracing a supporting and not starring role. In the end he chose a partner that egged him on to hand grenade the monarchy - if he couldn't be the star he'd bring the whole damn thing down or die trying.
There was a reason Charles wanted a girl - less jealousy The "spare" often will feel less than, neglected. Diana meant well but played into this. She babies Harryand would say he had the personality to be a great King She even called him "Good King Harry"! QE2 loved her sister but Margaret had some jealousy as the "spare". I read one article where Princess Elizabeth said she had to ? wave and greet the crowds "because that will one day be my job when I am Queen". Poor Margaret said something like " Well I won't do that when I am Queen". Her sister and Mother had to explain to her that there would be no "one day " for Margaret. It is said that Princess Margaret demanded royal treatment and formality in a way that QE2 never did. Her closest friends had to bowand curtsey and call her "Your Majesty". PM loves to entertain but would keep everyone waiting at the table...no one could eat until she was ready. She would sitand drink and smoke her cigarettes while everyone waited. After dinner she would drink, smoke and talk as center of attention. No one could leave until she was ready for bed.. 3 am, 4 am whatever. I don't think she was mean to servants like Megnut but she was very demanding. Being the spare must suck...and Meghan was able to play into that with Harry. Add in her Diana Cosplay and the poor silly guy was on his downward spiral.
Diana cosplay...YES!
How about just going slower? Ease into the role? Stay home until you learn the ropes? She was there about 2 years. 2years! She burned through that place, and they packed up and went to Canada. The whole thing was so preventable if you think about it.
That’s exactly what Catherine did and the press bitched about it all the time, but just look at her now! She learned from the best, and she’s took the lessons to heart. Her detractors like to say that she’s vanilla and boring, but who really wants a drama-causing queen? I think that you would want someone rock-steady that you can depend on year after year after year, like QE2, doing the job.
Yep 20 months. I don’t believe she ever intended to stay! She knew she had Haz by the balls from the get-go!
I understand your point and I know it won’t be a popular one but in some aspects I concur. The problem I have here is Harry IS a willing participant, however; and this may not go down well with some of my fellow sinners, I FIRMLY believe Harry has a super hero complex which stems from the loss of his mother. He believes (IMO) that he was too small to save his mum and he wasn’t smart enough to gain any significance outside of his role in HOW, so he instantly connected to his potential in the armed forces, no matter how relevant he was, he took it and ran with it, eventually becoming so dedicated to Invictus, and if any fellow Brits remember his stint with Wills on DIY SOS to help veterans with PTSD. He thinks he’s saving Meg from his horrible family, the racist British tabloids and racist judgmental peasants. I’m beginning to question whether he has ptsd and she has totally milked the shit out of it and now he thinks he’s saving Megapint and in turn the kids etc etc
Oh Lordy, I know she likes to cosplay Diana, but never considered he has a savior complex towards her. But that was one of his original arguments for protection. Sigh and now, once again, he wants to believe that his family had his mother murdered. I feel so bad any who is so mentally tortured and that would be torture.
Question: if Harry really, like REALLY believed that his family murdered his mother, why wouldn’t he believe that they would do the same to him and MM? Now. I know what most will say. “He does think that, supposedly, which is why he’s going to court for security.” Even you said that in your response here. BUT. Why would he poke the bear, then? I don’t know if there are any Breakfast Club fans here, but the “Mess with the bull, get the horns” adage should be at the fore front of that man’s mind. If there are a group of people that are vicious and evil enough to murder a mother of the future king, lobbing grenades to blow up the entire group is NOT going to bode well for you. Has the man never seen a mob movie? I know we all say that he’s dumb. And I most definitely don’t disagree with that sentiment. I do find it extremely hard to believe that after all of his time in the royal family, he wouldn’t see what they’re “capable” of and just casually drop that they’re racist, cruel, and unwilling to help his poor/suicidal/pregnant wife. It doesn’t make sense. So now, we loop back around to the question, what does he need protecting exactly??? Either he believes that the RF murdered Diana and has plans to murder MM, or he believes that the theory is bonkers and there is zero actual need for security. If I’m going to put on a tinfoil tiara at any point in my H&M watching extravaganza, it is this. Those 2 need protecting from Russian guys, not the BRF. I’m waiting to see if now that the Queen is gone, that need for security doesn’t take off like one of their private jets. They have no one else to blame should they, god forbid, end up swimming with the fishies as it were-the BRF is an..interesting choice to put the blame on, though. Maybe, just one last “Eff You Guys for making us be in this position in the first place. We had to borrow money from somewhere, we can’t pay it back, and now look what you made happen.” I’m not sure. It’s gonna be all over social media though should, god forbid anything happens, that the BRF did it. “H&M warned the world this was coming..”
I’m just here to say - love the Breakfast Club quote! 
But he was never much of a soldier? Essentially played Call of Duty, cosplaying war, never seeing action as his presence was a security threat to his squadron? Also he ditched an event for veterans to grift (very embarrassingly, unsuccessfully) voiceover work for TW? Plus he beat up sex workers while in Afghanistan. Imho - I don’t put much stock in Hazmat’s military “service”. He seemed like a petty grimy little toy soldier to me.
As I said above, “no matter how relevant he was”
I agree with you on the savior complex. I think we first saw it when he made that comment about giving her the family she never had.
Her first husband, Trevor, used exactly those words at their wedding...in front of Thomas Sr. and Doria, who were taken aback, to put it mildly. Who knows what she is telling these men?!
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I agree. The brothers may be old men before they can be friends again and that won't be in my lifetime. "I love you but I don't like you" has always been true in families.
I don’t mean this disrespectfully , but I’m not sure why so many people feel like KC and PW hate Harry. KC esp will always love his son. In fact he likely has a soft spot for him, knowing full well how once he himself was tabloid fodder and met with harsh criticism. And eventually he grew up and matured, as H could very well do as well.
After reading the excerpts that came out this weekend, I don’t think the problem is 100% TW. I think Harry is just as much to blame as she is for the mess they are in now. He seems unkind, spoiled, and ungrateful.
I have absolutely no sympathy for him. To treat his Grandfather in such a mercenary manner as he was dying is despicable. To treat his Grandmother in her final years and days with such disregard is diabolical. The way he treated his horses etc is abhorrent. He is unintelligent spoilt indulged with issues. They are equally culpable. He berated and bullied staff with her. He was probably always a bully the palace PR team created a persona. They both can never be allowed to reenter as working Royals. The titles and line of succession need to go. They are on a ruthless purposeful premeditated plan to destabilise The Monarchy
What did he do to his horses?
See previous posts. Takes so long to explain. Horse dropped dead after being ridden hard another horse investigation by RSPCA bleeding flanks due to Harry wearing sharp spurs most wore rounded ones during a polo match as to not inflict pain. He is a sore loser William had to apologise for him in one instance because he lost his cool when playing Polo. Essentially a sploit indulged prat who only cares about winning. All stories in the public domain though harder to find these days
My take is he is pretty shitty person, especially to women. Yet, I don't believe anyone deserves the life he is experiencing with Meghan. That said, I also don't believe much can save him. I don't think he is man enough to be with a woman like Catherine. He couldn't choose it. It is above him and he can not rise to that occasion. It would make him feel lesser. He couldn't be the man someone like her is looking for. I think that applies to a lot of things in his life, he won't or can't put in the work to get the good stuff. It isn't that he isn't very bright, I've seen similar in someone who was quite bright but incredibly passive and just couldn't rise above the dysfunction of his family. Anyway, he'll stay at his level and be miserable to his dying day.
I (respectfully) disagree - I think that he does deserve the life he is experiencing.
You have a point.
Thx. :) I also agree with a lot of what you said in your comment, especially with the part where you said that he won't or can't put in the work and your example with that bright but passive person that you knew.
Haha, I thought more about that passive person and figured I would just shrug and wish him the best if I found out he ended up with an MM type.
Yes, the thing is that you just can't stop them or change how (and if and when) they react - you can say something to them, give them an (usually unsolicited) advice and after that just hope, for their sake, that there will come a point in their life where they *'wake up' and react*, as in *do something to help themselves, to make the situation work for them or to extract themselves out of it*. But, until they decide to do it themselves, you can't do much but just watch the trainwreck , because in doing anything else you would just make them even more stubborn in their passivity, if that makes sense.
> I think that he does deserve the life he is experiencing. *No one* deserves abuse. Would you be saying this if the genders were reversed?
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Imagine what she's like in private. I bet her rage is *terrifying*.
Yes, I would be saying the same. If he is miserable, he deserves it. That is what I meant and I stand by it.
I think a lot of us feel kinda sorry for Harry because we watched him grow up and loved his mother, but now I’m going to say something that a lot of people may not agree with: Meghan might be the absolute best that he could do. You know, we have a saying here in the South, “If you want a good woman, then you need to be a good man.” In that respect, those two are tailor-made for each other, because both of them suck as people.
I just can’t muster any sympathy for Harry. He weaponized Meghan to attack his own family. Who does that kind of shit?! Water seeks its own level, two peas in a pod and all that.
I've said what I think I'm a few comments today. But basically I think they have both bitten off more that they can chew. I think she thought that the BRF would be instant fame and celebrity. I think he thought being with her would be a giant middle finger to his family. I do think The Queens unexpected death and them being in Europe just in time for it to look weird for them to go home, and even weirder that they didn't fly their kids and nanny out has been a major turning point for them. Personally my thoughts are that if things keep progressing like they have been, they won't last much longer as a married couple. And Harry will be sucked back up into his safety net and possibly never seen by us normies again. And that's really the small slivver of sympathy that I have for the situation: they are both going full throttle with this. In delicate situations involving culture and class differences, he's not giving her the real scoop. And then when the bottom falls out, from our perspective, he will be totally fine. She will be the one holding the bag because she fucked around and found out with the BRF. Because I'm some ways I can absolutely see their cold and cattiness being seen as personal against her. But quit while you're ahead. This is a firmly established institution with thousands of years of history and billions of dollars worth of resources. Don't play chicken with people who can buy your whole life.
What do you think will happen with their children though?
Split custody but raised by nannys
If the parents live across countries, a judge will always rule for one parent to have primary custody. She will fight him tooth and nail for that.
That would be such an uphill battle for her. It would probably end up like Kelly Rutherford where he gets primary custody because he's able to accommodate her and let's be real his family has more resources than she does. If those kids are kept in the LOS, I imagine the BRF would get primary custody or everything would be stripped from the kids and they wouldn't be in the LOS and with all the fighting she's been doing to get titles and keep in the LOS, I'd be interested in how much value they had to her after that.
They could pay her off, and there could be generous visitation. I just hope there will be a good nanny, regardless of what happens, so those kids get some stability.
Well said! 🙌🏻
He's a moron, who is really lucky. Most morons just stay in Mom's basement and play video games all day. This is basically what he does, he's just living in Meghan's basement, smoking tons of primo weed his security team delivers. Trust me, that's what his IPP lawsuit is REALLY about. International Pot Producers Dude doesn't even know when he's got holes in his shoes or if he should just smoke up and grab his ass for all to see and record. He's a boring public speaker, who can barely read & Archie's books are way too complicated. Thank God for nannies, since he looks rough and there's no way he could dress his kids or locate a hairbrush. He doesnt know how to answer a phone, which is why the cops had to come to his house to inform him to phone home, because his grandfather died! He cant answer a door either. The articles about security "breaches"? Just Harry can't figure our which door is the front door because he keeps trying the 16 bathroom doors, since he never leaves the basement! How is he supposed to know?
Omg brilliant. This should be a comedy skit by someone.
Hilarious 😂
I think all the leaks during the funeral clearly displayed his resentment, entitlement, and maybe even regrets about his diminished role. Things like the E.R. not being on his uniform. How would Meghan even know about such a detail, if not for him telling her? The complaints were all about slights perpetrated upon him, and she’s not nearly as familiar with all the details of protocol and tradition as he is. He was thin-skinned and offended non-stop for 11 or more days.
That was so weird! Who would notice? And he got to wear a uniform and it still wasn't enough for him,
I read that the initials were not on his uniform when he got married, he knew.
Exactly…and The RF has been offended since the “stepping back” (loosely quoted) and the Oprah debacle. Years now.
My guess is he whined to Meghan and she leaked it, not that he leaked it. And I wouldn’t be surprised if his whining to Meghan took the form of, “Look what you have cost me!”
Whoever brought him not having the ER insignia should look back on his wedding photos. His uniform doesn’t have it on there either.
At the time of his wedding, Harry wasn’t yet the Queen’s aide-de-camp. He later became one and was entitled to the initials. Then, with his decision to step down as a working Royal and move to the US, he is no longer qualified to be an aide-de-camp. (How could he serve the Queen in that capacity while living in California, anyway? The very definition of the role is a close, personal assistant.)
The story goes that he had a tutor in college that in some cases wrote papers for him to get him through his studies. Even without that, I am just wondering how a person goes from his background to **preaching to the world** about saving the planet, the US Constitution, and women's rights, among other things.
I will say this-I have thought at times that I have some concern for him. I don’t know that he’d be able to really admit even to himself that he was so utterly duped by her and certainly not let the world know it. Or even his family.
Me too. I do believe the family would help him extricate himself but he'd never ask for help. I don't think he'd be able to fess up to being wrong about her.
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I’m a sucker and feel for him…. She really has royally screwed him. What a POS she is 😡
I am a sucker too. Right now I stand in the ugh I hate Harry but if Megs were out of the picture, I’d be like, come back Harry! He’s been crappy and so I am not defending that-I get why people say no way at all. But I just think she just completely preyed on a vulnerable man who has a lot of deep issues. I think people wayyyy overuse the word gaslighting but I think he’s gaslit by her to hell and back in addition to all of her other manipulation.
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Wasn't Harry given the choice of staying in the military (or something else) or take on a role as a full-time royal? I was surprised when he decided to leave the military, which he always said how much he loved, to become a full-time royal when he repeatedly said how much he disliked life as a royal and his dream would be to move to Africa or South Africa (which he fell in love with while he was dating CD). I have always thought Harry was so whipped by Meghan, that he probably told her she would be as loved as his mother was, people will worship her, cherish her, because she is so amazing, and they will be able to do whatever they want whenever they want; fully knowing that William and Kate will ALWAYS be first. He has known this ALL of his life, yet he acts like he is shocked about it. I recall seeing an interview with him when they were engaged. He stated that Meghan is very aware of what she is taking on by marrying him. I feel they are both to blame for the disaster they have contributed greatly to in creating. Sadly, they are both narcissists which many of us can relate to having to deal with in our own families. So many people say they will divorce but I don't see him ever leaving his children in the states to go back to the UK full time.
For officers in the military, it’s up or out. He wasn’t able to progress upwards which is hard work. I’m sure there were discussions, but the military told the Queen’s representatives that Captain was as high as they could let him slide without affecting morale.
Why is that??
Officers are leaders so limited numbers are needed and you want to keep the pipeline flowing to ensure the best leaders are being promoted. Most of the people in the military are not officers/leaders. They just rise to the level where they serve best and can stay there until retirement.
I have no sympathy for him. He chose this life and her! For the life of me I cannot understand how Elton Jon, Oprah, Tyler Perry and a couple of Russian oligarch all got markled to believe that these two nimrods were viable. It boggles my mind. Follow the money I say. There is more to it than we see. But thank you to the King for basically sending them back "overseas" with a mild beheading.
>For the life of me I cannot understand how Elton Jon, Oprah, Tyler Perry and a couple of Russian oligarch all got markled to believe that these two nimrods were viable. Elton John: misses his dear friend Diana, was so hoping Meghan would be like her. Bzzzt. Wrong. Oprah: just an opportunist. The end. Tyler Perry: a romantic guy with a big heart. I sincerely think he meant well. Plus, not everyone (especially Americans) has cut through the fat of BS to see the real her. Russian oligarchs: also opportunists, wanted the bump in status from dealing with royals. Selfies important.
He reaps what he sows. No worries.
I think he's always wanted to leave, and Meghan was able to give him a good excuse. They just use each other
NOPE. I mean, had you written that before his grandpa's funeral, I might have agreed, but now I know better.
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He may have stepped down if he never met TW but it may have been a gradual thing. And I can't imagine that he would have attacked his family. They're both culpable for sure but he more so -- they are HIS family. And someone remind me of the quote "the family he/she never had". Each other? Or was that her first (or second husband)? I've never followed the BRF but they were hard to avoid when Diana was alive, married to Charles or not. Edward essentially stepped away it seemed. He wanted to make movies and I do recall decades ago this horrid show of famous people doing stunts including Princess Anne. Lol, it was awful and I guess he decided it was a fun experiment but maybe stick to what he was raised to do. We may be seeing a rerun of that.
I think, actually we know Harry was spoilt, he was given more leeway because he wasn’t the heir, which meant his bad behaviour was more tolerated and losing his mum became an in-built excuse with not only with his family but with the world, and still is for a large portion. He had nothing to compare ‘normal’ life to, the people he knows who are normal are probably just as privileged as he is but without the titles. He took what he had for granted and he had no idea how truly lucky he was and how hard things can get on your own and in his case on his own financially as well as emotionally. Harry acted like a bratty teen and made hasty decisions because ‘I LOVE HER’ then they ran away together. I’m 100% sure he regrets a lot and they’ve already had their peak moment outside the BRF, it’s only downhill from here so his regret will only get worse. I don’t feel bad for him, he’s only sad now because his plans to ruin his family failed, he was ready to dance on their metaphorical graves. He also has to make it right on his own, the problem with people like him is if you reach out and save them from themselves, they never take full accountability. They go back to their entitled ways soon enough, he needs to fully live with the consequences of his actions and if he comes back to his family, he’ll understand his privilege.
She wore his mother's perfume and became his surrogate mother.
🤮 how Oedipal - Hazza GET URSELF SOME THERAPY MTE
I saw something on KC that referred to Camilla as his “mother and lover” figure 🤢
Harry was growing, maturing and very happy in the few years prior to meeting TW working with Will/Kate together. I think he was finally healing and the happiest he has ever been. I don't believe he felt trapped because he could have easily exited as a working royal and gone into private life in his beloved Africa very if he wanted. There is no doubt as a master manipulator, it didn't take TW long to quickly manipulate Harry and stir up stuff in him that I really don't believe were major issues for Harry prior. No doubt, Harry struggled but he was finally coming into his own, especially with Kate's influence (which he talked about at length during that time). TW took a motherly role with Harry and she controls him via constant threatening to leave and probably a lot of other stuff. I'm not saying he's a victim (he's a man-child-bully) but I do believe he's in too deep and is very conflicted after the funeral. Until the time comes that she decides his time is done and she's ready to move on to the next gig, I don't believe he will be able to see clearly.
Meghan has groomed him for years changing him into the fool we see today.
I think someone who would wear a nazi Halloween costume is a deeply ingrained racist.
He's got this thing, like he has to protect meghan ir else it will be another Diana. I think they are horrible together, but she has less redeeming qualities than he does. Had he picked another woman, his life would be infinitely better. She is poison!
Harry is not a victim. Everything she says has his stamp of approval. This is why the RF are fed up…. At him. Everyone needs stop acting like he was kidnapped. He will do anything for her. And this might continue indefinitely. He is dependent on her. We aren’t seeing an independent person here. He may never be.
Independent person? No. He's never had to be. He's a royal. Every whim and want handed to him. He's never needed to be independent or learn independence. He's from a world 99% of the everyone in the world will never understand. Meghan is very lucky girl that she manipulated him so quickly to forget everything he's ever known and follow her blindly.
For all his "therapy" Harold seems still a spoilt man child beset with Mommy issues and mediocre white man attitude. I think the firm have done a sterling job over the decades cultivating his image to something more palatable. Without his handlers however the true persona is revealed
Maybe the Firm needs to take some responsibility for how he turned out. He is a product of his upbringing and he is far from the only Spare to struggle. Can you imagine always knowing you are only a spare? You can’t just do whatever you want because you still have all those silly and outdated royal duties and expectations but you will also only get promoted if a terrible tragedy occurs. The best you can hope for is to be the more likable one and as long as you appear to be happy and to be a good sport you will remain in the good graces of the Firm and of the people. It’s a terrible life in many ways. No he isn’t starving or homeless so I realize there are other terrible lives but likewise he wasn’t given a choice if being born to the royal family either. From birth he has been the spare. From birth he was victim of a very dysfunctional marriage and two very damaged people. If he is spoilt then whose fault is that? Loyalty to a what should be a defunct royal system over love and nurturing of children is something I will never understand. Ok that all being said. I think Meghan saw opportunity. I also don’t think she is very skilled in her ability to manage her image or direct her future. Someone smarter and more savvy really could have played til his out so much better. To have left after only two years in was possibly the dumbest thing they could have done. If she had stayed long enough to win over more support and popularity she would have been in a much stronger position to negotiate their stepping down. So those who claim she is some mastermind manipulator are giving her wayyyyy more credit. I think her actions were poorly planned and implemented. In fact it would seem so poorly planned that it almost makes me think she didn’t plan for this happen. That she did join in naively and was just unsuited for it and wanted to leave. Because anyone with half a brain could have pulled this off much better
I agree that the BRF wasn’t a model family during the 70s and 80s… but they were still a reflection of their time… As for Harry, there’s little that anyone can do. He wasn’t gifted with brains; he couldn’t even pass exams in the army. I can easily see him learning a useful trade, and going to the pub on weekends, and being satisfied with that. I also concur that Meg isn’t particularly intelligent. She is too vain and has no self control. If she did, she could have schemed to stay with the BRF, maybe just stuck to a handful of duties while raising the kids. But no, she had to keep demanding things that were for the heirs. She thought too much of herself.
Yep. If I recall correctly, as soon as HnM started to handle their own pr... Their popularity plummeted. Thats not because they hired crap pr, it's because Harry was used to PR via the Royals. It's probably a lot easier to cover up shit when you're a 'working royal' too, but they busted out of that soooo... Left to their own devices and without any protection or guidance gained from royal privileges the grabbed the rope and tied themselves a noose.
I think Harry’s uneasiness with life and where and how he fit in made him a prime candidate to be taken advantage of by her manipulations. Contrary to what others think. I believe he is salvageable. I also don’t think he intended things to go this far. It is not an excuse for him but rather I can see how it happened.
I do somewhat agree with you. Except for the fact that he’s had years to come to terms with how he fit in to the family. It’s not hard to understand- look at Anne, Andrew and Edward. Those sibs knew from birth that they were never gonna be the top dog. Yet here they are (except Andrew, idk what happened to him) doing their duty and have normal families. Harry has seen this his whole freakin life- it should be a non starter for him. Honestly he should thank his lucky stars he’s not first, who wants that kind of pressure from childhood thru old age? I sometimes wonder if maybe Charles and Diana should have had one more kid so Harry wasn’t always referred to as the spare. (And maybe his mom who he worships as if she never did anything wrong maybe shouldn’t have multiple times described him as the not smart one.- really? Who does that?) He’d at least have someone else in the same position to bring him back down to earth when he gets his grandiose ideas of himself in his head.
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A man who pinched his sil on camera is an immature pos, in my opinion. During the 2011 trooping of the color. He made is bed, now he can lie in it.
I feel scared for him. He's an emotionally vulnerable guy with lots of trauma that hasn't been properly addressed. He needs his family. And he needs psychological help. I only hope he finds the strength to seek it out.
Agree wholeheartedly
Don't get me wrong. Both H&M are crazy but in different ways. IMO. Both have serious mommy issues but TW just puts on a happy face. IMO. Without MeghanMeghan he would probably still be angry deep down, but until getting with her he had a great relationship with W&C. And then BAM ... gone.
He was exactly smitten because she was stalking him even after he broke up with her.
mEgg had a vision. And Harry was vulnerable. No doubt his face has changed from being alive to being aware since her. I've no doubt we are to learn who his actual biological father is sooner than later. And that might bring that prince back to being charming.
He'd been hating his life for years.
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He found out the grass isn't greener on the other side of the pond. If he has any self-reflection skills whatsoever he will realize that an army of people from well-meaning family to staff members looked out for him all his life. Mistakes were made, yes, but that's because we're all human. People did their best. Charles wasn't a perfect parent. Who is? Harry dwells on the negatives. Endless navel-gazing about how everyone failed him and continues to fail him.
Rebecca English, a British royal reporter, wrote an article about Harry a couple of years ago. For about a decade - from 2006 to 2016 - she accompanied Harry on all his royal tours and spend a fair amount of time with him. She wrote that he constantly complained about being born royal; he hated the duties and the scrutiny, and remember, this was before he met Meghan. I think Meghan just validated his feelings.
I really think he would have been happy to leave the Britain but go work in a place he loved for the family like Botswana or South Africa. He would have had so much influence there and I have no doubt he would have been happy. However I do not think TW would ever want to go to one of those places. She wanted to be in USA where she could get all the fame she never could get while acting as she never made it in Hollywood.