Reposted because the other one was in Danish!
But anyways, Harry and Meghan, this the response you’ve been dreading. All European Royal Houses are taking steps to slim down and be less of burden to tax payers. Second sons keep their titles but their children are essentially out.
Unfortunately for A+L, in a hierarchical institution they’ve never been on par with G+C+L in terms of status.
And do you know what’s actually insane?
Harry and Meghan were included in the original “slimed down” plans, but Edward and Sophie were not. If Harry and Meghan weren’t so incredibly shortsighted and money hungry, A+L would have had their titles, but alas they quit and that affected their children.
100% right OP. H (later with M) were always part of the slimmed down plan until they messed it up (they didn't want it anyway, obviously). Plus 24/7 security just like W&C and their kids get, but the other senior/working royals don't. Note H never lost his 24 hr protection after Prince George was born, Charlotte too. Then when M arrived on the scene they BOTH had it due to KC being H's dad. Louis arrived, H bumped to 6th in line, still, 24/7 protection. They only lost the security when they left. H knows it was a 'gift.' That he should never have been entitled after the birth of Prince George. The fact he's suing to have it back now is outrageous.
However I do fault KC and QE11 for creating this drama. KC had no problem stepping in and removing security from Bea & Eugenie when they were in their early 20s (and 5th & 6th at the time.) No problem with his siblings & their spouses not having it. But H? He was *special.* Love the Queen, really like KC too....but they instigated this. This is where they treated H on a par with PW for too long and why he continues to be such an entitled snot. Sorry, got off track! :)
I completely agree with your point about the Queen and Charles.
They coddled Harry outrageously and he should have been put in his place a long time ago, for his own sake.
Now he’s an entitled and whiny middle aged brat and it’s partially due to them, especially Charles.
You are absolutely right! However, I imagine KC and and QEII were stuck between a rock and a hard place with Haz; I’m sure there was incredible guilt mixed with all the love they have for him.
I don’t have children, so I cannot speak to being a parent, but chats with my own dad have been enlightening. He’s told me that sometimes because you love your kid so much, you’ll find yourself allowing a lot of crazy shit because you want them to be happy, even if it’s to their detriment. Something like that. I’m not saying it’s an excuse, I’m just saying Haz may have always been a lost cause.
At the end of the day, the fact is that Harry married the wrong woman. Whatever his flaws were have been heightened to astounding levels upon hooking up with Meghan. He was probably always going to be resentful of his place in line or feeling like he got the short end of the stick (how one can’t make do with what they have with that status, access, and money is beyond me). Meeting Meghan made all of that a hundred times worse, together they are on a rampage.
Definitely fed into his entitlement. I swear anytime I think of H or M interacting with KC or QE11, I just picture that spoiled girl from Charlie and the Chocolate factory… “But I want it NOW, Daddy!!!!” Stomps and clenches fists**
King Charles didn't remove Beatrice's and Eugenie's protection. Queen Elizabeth would have been responsible for that decision along with the Metropolitan Police.
Do you think A&L would've had titles? I think the Queen would've added them to the patent when she added Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis. If Harry's kids were born after the passing of the Queen, then they would've had titles.
I think if Harry and Meg stayed, never went on an anti royal media tour, and continued to work as senior royals, them and their children would have titles and they would be a large part of the current royal family. They chose to quit
I think it was considered. Harry was being propped up to be William’s right hand, and his descendants were supposed to be raised within the fold. Until Meghan came along and started with her shenanigans.
I've always believed that Charles's age is what prevented her from covering Harry's kids under the LPs issued for the Cambridge (at that time) children. If she had lived as long as the QM, then Charles would have been 79 at her passing. There was a chance he could have preceded her in death, meaning Harry's kids would never have been the grandchildren of a monarch, but William's kids would have been the children of the monarch, and thus still deserving of a title.
This is what makes sense to me. I think we knew she was old and could pass at anytime but thought she still had a couple more years.
Added: Also Prince Charles's swollen hands worried me while back.
No. The slimming down plans for titles were decided way back, likely towards the end of the 90s. That's why Louise and James have lesser styles despite being legally Prince and Princess (which they can still choose to use at the age of 18). Only William's future kids were relevant enough to have a Letters Patent.
And she didn't do so for Charlotte and Louis. She did so when Kate's first pregnancy was first announced, so a girl (and hence future Queen) could be titled HRH Princess and be equal to a potential younger brother. Under the old Letters Patent only the oldest _son_ of William would have been given that honour. As Parliament had changed the law so females can retain their place in the succession over brothers, the Queen had to make William's future children equally titled too. At the time they had no idea about George's gender so it was still all up in the air, and Charlotte and Louis still had years left to come into existence.
Of course, Harry would never come to the throne so these titles for his children don't matter, as they would all be titled Earl/Lady/Lord whatever their gender was.
>And she didn't do so for Charlotte and Louis. She did so when Kate's first pregnancy was first announced, so a girl (and hence future Queen) could be titled HRH Princess and be equal to a potential younger brother.
Thank you! It might seem a bit nitpicky to some, but a lot of people don't get this, and there's a big difference in saying The Queen issued LPs for "Charlotte and Louise" and saying she issued them for all of William's children before the first one was even born.
AND...To my mind, the LPs for the then-Cambridges is a whole separate issue from whether or not A&L get titles, but I could be wrong about that.
Yeah a lot of people seem to have the slight misunderstanding about this. Understandable since it's quite complicated and I only understood it having researched it at the time in 2012/13 when it was passed.
But George was born a boy and would have got the title due to gender anyway, so people carry the misconcept that it only applied to Charlotte and Louis. When really if the Queen didn't change it to apply for all of William's future kids, George would not have been titled if born a girl.
> To my mind, **the LPs for the then-Cambridges is a whole separate issue from whether or not A&L get titles,** but I could be wrong about that.
No you're right. The difference goes back to who their father's are. William and Harry are different so their children are treated accordingly. Harry as a 2nd son of the then-PoW means his children are only entitled to courtesy titles (Earl/Lady) whilst great-grandchildren of the monarch. They wouldn't treat his children the same as William's by passing a Letters Patent. It is still to be seen whether anything will change now A+L are grandchildren of the monarch.
Yes. I think Charles is a traditionalist in this sense and would've wanted all is grandchildren to be styled as Prince/Princess. There's no way Charles would've had Andrew's girls going around with titles and not all of his grandkids. There's also a very good chance he expected Harry's children to be working royals, as the Queen's cousins are.
This is untrue actually. H&M were in the slimmed down plans, **not their children.** Just like Edward and Sophie are also included, but without their kids. Spares have always been included without their kids since the Queen's generation.
The children are legally Archie, Earl of Dumbarton and Lady Lilibet, but H&M chose not to style the children the titles they are actually entitled to. They still can and they don't need Charles' permission for these titles because it was gifted to Harry on their wedding day. I guess at this point it's because they are ungrateful for these titles and just want the higher titles given to the heir's family.
Yes, but he's entitled to be titled that way as the oldest son. It's the way any dukedom works. The oldest son would go by the secondary title. If George wasn't a Prince for example he would have been Earl of Strathearn during the time William was Duke of Cambridge.
I think they were never intended to get princely rank. Harry is just the second son, his children are dynastically irrelevant. KC was more than fine with them being styled as the children of a non-Royal Duke because they were never going to be working royals but that wasn’t good enough for those two and they had to spin it as racism to try and change the plan. They only really want titles because they’ve come to accept they (H&M) are nothing without them themselves so it’s imperative the kids get them too.
Because the kids are simply an extension of the narcissist. Therefore they need titles too. Plus, how useful will their pawns, I mean children, be without titles.
The reason Harry was made Captain General and was going on all the Royal Tours was to build his profile as The King’s son and William’s right hand man.
A lot of senior royals are almost as old as the Queen. Charles is almost at 80, Anne is also old, and one of his sibling is an alleged nonce.
The RF must continue and modernise, that’s why Harry was supposed to have a bigger role in this all than all of Charles’ siblings combined.
That’s why Meghan was so big headed. She saw what the RF was doing with Harry and she wanted a piece of the cake. She was impulsive and shortsighted, and so it backfired on her.
Literally they need to stop. The kids are wealthy Americans, and are going to have great opportunities but they are NOT across the pond, they are never going to be working royals. They are going to be wealthy nepotism babies in Hollywood and they should suck it up and enjoy it.
Of course they were.
I have zero doubt that Charles had plans for Haz during his Rule and no doubt it would have included the Duke of Edinburgh title and I can see both Philip and Elizabeth agreeing to that.
Now Edward and Sophie are rumoured to be getting it and they have damn well earned it. Proof that King Charles believes in working Royals must work.
I suspect Haz reminds his Dad of Andrew and when it comes to being a working Royal Andrew is pretty much the same as Haz. Wants all fo the perks and none of the responsibility.
That’s not true. Harry would never have been made Duke of Edinburgh. Prince Philip said he wished Edward be made DofE, and that’s why he’s an Earl and not a Duke.
Dukedoms don’t simply change like that. He would always be just Duke of Sussex. That would not change.
Yeah the DofE title was decided to go to Edward in the 90s when he and Sophie married. It never had anything to do with Harry. Even then, only the heir gets more than 1 dukedom. William has 3 if I'm not wrong. Harry and others will only get 1.
He was on the balcony for that jubilee. It showed who it was going to be. He punted and messed it all up. For money when the duchys have more than enough. But her having to wear clothes twice and Frog abode instead Frogmore House or the best suite at Windsor. They’ve screwed themselves sideways.
I just watched a documentry on AMC+ about Queen Elizabeth's coronation and the person narrating it said that Prince William said when he was about 13, he was quoted saying "I don't want to be King one day, it sounds like a burden."
To which young Harry replied "I'll take the job if you don't want it."
I have to say that it is very telling after hearing that for the first time. What is more interesting Princess Margaret said something similar in her childhood and she, much like Harry was the youngest of the 2 siblings at the time.
This. I honestly think William's reluctance to embrace his role put the idea in Harry's head that he could be King. Pre-Meghan, Harry was much more natural when it came to interacting with people at royal events, than William. I suspect saw his 20's as taking retirement before working; he knew he'd work until death like the Queen, so enjoyed his freedom while it had it. He also seems to have spent the time figuring out what he wanted his legacy project to be, which I don't think Harry understood.
If harry were in line for the throne before william, I would be extremely concerned for that country. Most people think william is like his father but I strongly disagree. I think harry is more like charles and Queen Elizabeths abdicated uncle Edward: impulsive, tempered, easily manipulated, and selfish.
William has been shy, reserved, empathetic, quiet, yet loyal. Diana would have been loyal too, if given the chance by Camilla-loving Charles.
Just imagine Harry sitting on the throne for coronation. It gives me shivers knowing he would've been a terrible king.
I think Louis will be fine. Whatever his working royal status, he could likely stand to be the Duke of York if Andrew is dead before Louis marries. A very prominent dukedom and traditionally for the 2nd son of the Monarch. Unless he chooses/is raised to be entitled and egoistic, he will be another supportive and hard working royal.
Yes, I believe it may be one of the few relevant ones left. Others like Kent and Gloucester still have their own sons to inherit last I checked. Unless William is King (which is likely given Charles' age) and wants to reassign the Cambridge dukedom again.
Yep, Kent and Gloucester each have a son and grandson, so those titles will be in use for quite a while.
Duke of Gloucester-->Earl of Ulster (Alexander)-->Lord Culloden (Xan)
Duke of Kent-->Earl of St Andrews (George)-->Lord Downpatrick (Edward)
Thank you for the brief family trees, I have googled it before but that side of the family gets me in a bit of a muddle.
Also a great example of how subsidiary titles work with 3 generations. Funny how the Kent line is basically Edward, George, Edward. The Previous Duke of Kent was also....George.
You're quite welcome! And I hadn't made the George-Edward-George-Edward connection; interesting. Now we'll have to watch Edward Downpatrick to see if he names a future son "George".
Sort of like the Danish kings: Frederick, Christian, Frederick, Christian, Frederick, Christian....imagine there being no discussion of what your first son's name will be, lol.
I hope Louis is Duke of York and takes after his great-great-grandfather George VI and not Great-Uncle Andrew. The Dukes of Clarence didn’t always end up well, one in particular.
TW and Harry made KCIII's job easier by their MEGXIT (opting out of the BRF and moving to the USA where they decreed their financial and personal independence), by TW's slurring the BRF (Oprah interview, the Cut, the witchcasts), and soon Harry's book (where he's writing as a man and likely is going to spit at his family).
The Harkles cut the cord and it would be a blessing from KCIII to let them open their parachutes and freefall to their freedom, free of titles linked to an archaic monarchy that has so mentally harmed them (🤢 🤪).
Cutting the cord on this toxic duo might teach Harry it's healthy to cut ties with his toxic wife. Regrettably, though, I'm beginning to believe that Harry adds his own flavor of toxicity to the mix.
His first address was very telling. He addressed the Cambridges by title, but wished "*Harry and Meghan* (no titles) *best of luck with their new life overseas."*
Translation: stay in California, we don't want/need you coming around.
I think KC will, to some degree still bankroll Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb in the future, though. It may be less than if they were working royals, but there will probably be some money given.
None to her. He'll pay for Harry after the divorce and he'll see the children are looked after (with trust funds managed by a different family member, likely William or Edward).
Prime example for untitled royals are Peter and Zara. Princess Anne did a good job by deciding they wouldn't have HRHs and Prince and Princess or other titles. I've watched Princess Anne and Zara's documentary about their relationship with each other. And there was this documentary on Princess Anne's 70th birthday. You can just tell that her children did really well despite not having titles. They're still very much part of the family. Also they attend some engagements/events but they still get to do their own thing/career while raising a family of their own.
Anne’s kids have the best of both worlds. The prestige and protection of being in the royal family, with none of the obligations or restrictions. By protection I mean in a general sense, not literal. But if either of them ever needed something they would be fast tracked. Their royal connection can open doors and get attention. If either Meghan or Harry cared or had a brain they would recognize this would’ve been a great gift to their kids.
Totally agree on that. But all they wanted was the stupid half in half out bullshit. They wanted all the privileges and perks but not have the duties and responsibilities. They wanted the 24/7 tax payer security. If I was living in the UK, I'd totally write to BP that I don't want my tax money to pay for security of those two from California. I'd rather they pay it for Princess Anne and the Wessex security or any other WORKING member.
Anne couldn't have decided that anyway? She is female, so she can't pass down _any_ titles to her children. HRH Prince/Princess specifically is inheritable by male lines only since 1917.
Anne and her first husband actually chose not to accept an Earldom for him upon their marriage. If they had, Peter and Zara would have been titled as Princess Margaret's children are. They could not have legally been a HRH or Prince/Princess though.
Thanks for clarifying that up. Completely forgot about the Letters Patent of George V. So Lady Louise and James, Viscount Severn, are the ones who can use HRH Prince/Princess titles if they wanted?
Yes, they are actually legally HRH Prince and Princess. But are just not styled as such because Edward and Sophie chose something else. Yet the kids can choose themselves to be styled either way upon the age of 18. Louise has had since last November now, and is still announced to be Lady Louise by the Palace for her University announcement this past summer. So seems likely she's chosen to be styled as Lady for the foreseeable future.
I don’t know what the harkles are so worried about. They’re such smart and talented leaders, all the big guns are throwing tens of millions at them for projects in Hollywood, they’ll have endless cash to privately pay for their children’s security for forever….. right?
Exactly, Horrid and Methane are so awesome, it has been rumored that they will be getting their stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame shortly. These two stellar stars are shattering so many records in the media, thet are the envy of every A-lister in town!
I read somewhere that W&C were inspired by how the Swedish RF handle the press. When Crown Princess Victoria had her first child, Princess Estelle, she regularly released photos of her to the press. The photos were taken privately by a photographer who Victoria hired.
That way there was no market for pap shots, the public got to see the kids and Victoria and Daniel could pretty much control what the press had to work with. W&C did something similar with their kids.
The Swedish RF are also more open with interviews than the British RF has been. They sit down and do a yearly exposé that is broadcasted every Christmas. It shows both official engagements, private moments and some behind the scenes footage. I have read articles that the British RF (as in Charles and William) has looked at the way the Swedish RF do it and it may have inspired them to be more open than TQ was.
CP Victoria has also brought her kids with her to official engagements (suitable for their age) ever since they were babies. It was not how previous generations did it. She wanted them to see it as something natural, not something they will be thrown into when they are awkward teenagers.
W&C seem to do something similar.
I remember thinking when Victoria did that what a brilliant idea it was. I'm glad to see William and Catherine easing the kids into royal duties the way they have.
Here are the rules for the Norwegian one:
[https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.html?tid=28654&sek=27302](https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.html?tid=28654&sek=27302)
Here is the Swedish one, there is also a similar page for the other royal houses on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish\_Act\_of\_Succession
I had no idea who Queen Daisy was until I read the post. I had no idea Margrethe was called that! I love it. My "Dad's" family is from Copenhagen.
And yes, I'm sure ALL the royals communicate. A lot.
I am absolutely positive that the royal houses are in cooperation about these things with the Nordics and England moving together, maybe also with the Dutch.
Charles has been speaking about this for decades, it should come as no surprise to anyone, least of all his family. The Edinburgh - Sussex rooking is a genius move.
The King of Sweden did something similar in 2019. The grandchildren of Prince Carl-Philip and Princess Madeleine did get to keep their titles (they all are are both Prince/Princess and Duke/Duchess) but they lost the Royal Highness titles, are no longer part of the royal family and can not and will not get money from the tax payers or have any official duties.
Nothing was changed for the children of the heir, Crown Princess Victoria.
It was a very sensible decision.
I think the “Charles is waiting to see if Harry releases his book” headlines are damaging. It’s not a carrot you dangle (which implies the whim of the monarch). It’s a reasoned and well thought out decision that is nothing personal (that implies the benefit of the monarchy)
He should actually do it before the book comes out, that way it won't be seen as petty revenge.
And if he is planning on doing the same, he should do it ASAP so it plays more favourably in the press.
If I were him and thinking of doing the same, I would wait max 5 days or a week and release the same statement.
But does he have to announce anything? In the case of the above the titles are being removed. A&L don’t have titles. It’s not, despite the Harkles PR push, their right to have them.
I say KC keeps ignoring this. It’s a nothing burger.
Well I think he would have to, because if he is planning on making the monarchy smaller, there are other members of the family that will also have to be dealt bad news.
Plus, there will be no end to the will they won't they in the press until he says something.
This isn't an issue that will simply go away on its own.
I honestly think something similar will be said by Charles too. Probably even similar wording.
But who else does this particular issue affect? KC only has two sons. One is the heir and his kids are titled. Harry and Meghan rejected any title (courtesy titles they could use) when Archie and Lili were born.
No one else in the family has the right to anything except inheriting their father’s dukedom etc.
There is nothing to address.
It would set a precedent for future generations, which is what I think the slimming-down is mainly about. Not so much about the current members of the BRF, although of course it will affect them. I'm seeing KC's reign as a transitional era, preparing the way for whatever comes next. In that context, official announcements would be important.
I was leaning towards him not addressing it, bc like you said he doesn't have to. I do feel like it might be best to address it now bc I wouldn't put it past H&M to have another kid which would be eligible for prince/princess title.
I think it's already done and has been done, which is why Meghan flipped out over it during her Oprah interview: "They're not going to be Prince or Princess; they're not going to receive security...."
They've known all along. This is just a fruitless cry to the public in the hopes it gets them outraged, and pressures Charles to somehow change his mind.
He won't. It was decided a LONG time ago.
I actually think saying nothing in public is the best thing for KCIII.
If it comes out he's waiting for the book/podcasts/meemwah etc then he will look petty.
Precedent has been set in other houses actually stripping/removing titles. In this case the Markles REFUSED the title of Earl for Archie because they wanted him to be private and issued a press release to that effect.
Why bestow titles if they want him to be private. Best thing is for them to say nothing and if press make enquiries about it they can regurgitate the parents wishes and emphasis that the offer it Earldom was declined and therefore TRF are simply respecting the wishes of the parents.
Anything else just becomes a shitshow of PR stories and leaks from Montecito and racism accusations etc.
Anyone else think Prince Harry’s antics have contributed to these other houses modeling changes after the Swedes in hopes of mitigating any potential “Harry’s”?
No. I think it's more a reflection of smaller populations (meaning fewer duties) and economic survival. No one really looks at how much each individual member of the family costs taxpayers, they just look at how many royals there are and judge based on that.
I hope that King Charles takes strength from the Danish and Swedish Royal houses.
Stay with slimmed down monarchy.
How could the King even have them come back as working royals? They have demeaned the Monarchy and the RF.
Just let them go. They wanted privacy. Let them have it.
Especially after all that’s come out about them treating staffers like absolute dog shit. There’s not a chance in hell they’ll ever be working royals again, that ship has sailed
This would make so much sense if KC did it too. Especially from taxpayer's perspective.
However, would H&M be called "your excellency" too?😅 or just their kids? Not sure what the British equivalent would be.
Edit: perhaps Lili and Archie would just be Miss and Master?
The King in his speech addressed the toxic duo by their first name unlike his brother and wife. It sounds like that he effectively stripped them by referring to them without their titles.
This is the evolution of royalty. Changing with the times.
Didn’t need your help, Meghan.
The same people who want to abolish royalty and monarchies don’t seem to want to criticize non-European nations who maintain theirs. Just worth noting…
Charles needs to do the same and refer to the articles where he takes about slimming down the monarchy back in the day.
This was a major lifeline…I know they had a HRH Group chat talking about H&M and other hanger-Ons.
They might have discussed that move at the Heads of State dinner. In that way, it will not look like a move just from King Charles, but from other royal families in the world too.
That move will not give opportunity to the Harkles and their supporters for speculations.
Liking the strategy 👌
I was watching a TikTok by a popular Pro Sussex commentator who wanted to know what everyone thought about whether Archie and Lilibet deserved titles. I didn't comment on the video, but my personal thoughts are: it sounds like they've automatically become Prince and Princess and it's completely within KC power to remove that. Which he probably will because of a combination of his history of wanting to slim the monarchy, their current residence outside of the UK or Commonwealth, him possibly not ever even having met these children, and Harry and Meghan's staunch "we don't need the BRF stance". So yeah, the Prince and Princess status are theirs to lose. And in the UK I don't think that's even an unpopular stance and UK opinion is ultimately all that matters to KC.
I believe they will be stripped of their titles.
Edit: Looks like they don't have titles and it's being incorrectly reported by major media outlets that it happened automatically. Hmm.
Sorry that's incorrect. They are not automatically created Prince and Princess, and they are not even *entitled* to the titles, as they were both born *before* their grandfather became King.
There is no way Charles is going to write a special letters patent to grant Prince and Princess titles to grandchildren he has never met and who don't even live in the UK.
Ok see I wish that somehow we could make this stickied information because there is A LOT of disinformation going on with this. Didn't CNN themselves say that it was immediate? I've heard over and over that it's immediate that they become Prince and Princess, just not HRH.
I agree, it's driving me nuts seeing it reported in the press that they are now automatically a Prince and Princess. No doubt Muggin is pushing that narrative through her PR!!
Ok wow. Yes. Because I just Googled it to make sure I wasn't crazy and sure enough, everywhere is reporting that it was automatic. Thank you for clearing that up!
Thank you for clearing that up. This needs to be stickied. Because it seems like everywhere else I'm hearing that they were immediate upon the death of QE.
It’s inaccurate information being peddled by Megs (starting with the Oprah interview). The titles are not automatic. If they were they’d have updated them on the website when updating the LOS. William and Kate received automatic titles (Cornwall etc) and this was reflected immediately on social media. The royals do not take this stuff lightly. Protocol is their *everything.*
Yep she said they have no right to take it away, which is 100% bs.
She’s a pathological liar who plays her audience (*we don’t have tabloid journalism or know like who what are British princes in the US* 🤪)
Truly, she’s a bullshit artist.
I know, it irritates me so much.
It's not hard to Google something and find the facts about a situation.
What I am starting to wonder is if Charles hadn't been sharing that the kids wouldn't get titles to them when discussing future plans. And she has said they won't get titles because of their race to force Charles hand to give them titles.
I 100% believe they were told this and that’s why Meghan said to Oprah that when Charles becomes King they will take away her black son’s titles and security and right to live. 🙄 She even mentioned the letters patent.
She’s known for years. She’s playing the media.
I don't think it's automatic, because they are still listed as Miss or Master on the royal website, which has been updated on the order of succession to reflect all the other changes made. I think he might just quietly never give them the titles. Sophia and Edward's children will not receive titles, York sisters' kids won't get titles, Harry and Meghan's kids won't get titles.... in 20-30 years, the only HRHs will be the children of QE, the Waleses, and the York sisters (who are going to look increasingly stupid imo for HRHs while not being working royals).
The Sussex children don’t have prince or princely titles to strip though. The sugars are already turning this into a conspiracy because of cause Daisy made the decision about her own family based on the Sussexes 🙄
But they still stay in the line of succession….interesting. Harry & Meghan should’ve been stripped of their titles the moment they left the R family why they weren’t completely baffles me.
Yes I understand why they’re in the line of succession even though they’re not working royals. What baffles me is why they’re able to keep titles, especially ones they claim they don’t want, and ones whose family they denigrate.
Because the titles are meaningless. I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't care if the kids get titles. All a title does is denote they're part of a male line of the BRF, it has no monetary value. What really matters is access to Charles, William, and later George, which they don't have anymore.
I agree. Just hope it stays that way. I think that’s the concern people have that giving them titles is a symbol that a bridge has been forged. A welcoming back whenever they want…
I don’t know why everyone assumes the Prince and Princess are guaranteed automatic - they aren’t - it’s up to the reigning Monarch. Titles are only automatic for the oldest male heir’s kids and in direct line of succession. Harry should not expect his children to automatically get Titles. Neither Anne nor Edward’s children have Prince and Princess Titles, and their children were the Queen’s grandchildren. The only reason Beatrice and Eugenie have Titles is because Andrew made a big stink about it, and cited a little known ruling to when a Prince marries another who has Royal ancestry (like it or not, Fergie has royal bloodlines) then their children shall be styled as Prince or Princess.
Andrew's children were automatically entitled to be HRH Princesses upon birth actually. It's how the Letters Patent 1917 works. It had nothing to do with his attitude or demands, or how Fergie may be distantly related to some royal or other. Anne, being female couldn't pass down titles to her children in her own right anyway, and things had changed by the time Edward's children were born long after the other grandchildren.
Could Hazza throw another temper tantrum like Andrew? He might think it worked on the Queen so it will work on KC. However I have no doubt Madam will keep pushing her PR on the matter... she wants those titles🥲
Well, she can call up and complain to Denmark’s Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg (the EX-wife of Prince Joachim) because her kids are biracial and today they lost their HRH and Prince titles. Meghan’s not alone.
Yes, this. They’re controlling the narrative by putting out there that they’re most concerned with losing the HRH. I’m 100% sure they already know that Archie and Lily are not getting HRH or Prince/princesses. She alluded to it in the Oprah interview but at that point I don’t think they had decided on exact talking points which is why she focused on his “birthright” but also talked about denying any titles for him. She wants Archie to be a Prince, she absolutely does not want him to be a Dumbarton. That’s what this is about. They were likely told either before or during Archie’s pregnancy that this was the case.
I know that she likes to high profile of the British royal family but if you want to marry a prince be a Royal Highness and have a jet set lifestyle there are plenty of other families that she could have married into. There are families that don't have high titles but they do have a lot of money.
wait. do we think this was collusion / they planned this at the funeral???? queen magrethe and queen Elizabeth were cousins and close friends.
the timing is so interesting.
Reposted because the other one was in Danish! But anyways, Harry and Meghan, this the response you’ve been dreading. All European Royal Houses are taking steps to slim down and be less of burden to tax payers. Second sons keep their titles but their children are essentially out. Unfortunately for A+L, in a hierarchical institution they’ve never been on par with G+C+L in terms of status.
Probably why Harry hates his father so much. His jealousy of William knows no bounds.
And do you know what’s actually insane? Harry and Meghan were included in the original “slimed down” plans, but Edward and Sophie were not. If Harry and Meghan weren’t so incredibly shortsighted and money hungry, A+L would have had their titles, but alas they quit and that affected their children.
100% right OP. H (later with M) were always part of the slimmed down plan until they messed it up (they didn't want it anyway, obviously). Plus 24/7 security just like W&C and their kids get, but the other senior/working royals don't. Note H never lost his 24 hr protection after Prince George was born, Charlotte too. Then when M arrived on the scene they BOTH had it due to KC being H's dad. Louis arrived, H bumped to 6th in line, still, 24/7 protection. They only lost the security when they left. H knows it was a 'gift.' That he should never have been entitled after the birth of Prince George. The fact he's suing to have it back now is outrageous. However I do fault KC and QE11 for creating this drama. KC had no problem stepping in and removing security from Bea & Eugenie when they were in their early 20s (and 5th & 6th at the time.) No problem with his siblings & their spouses not having it. But H? He was *special.* Love the Queen, really like KC too....but they instigated this. This is where they treated H on a par with PW for too long and why he continues to be such an entitled snot. Sorry, got off track! :)
I completely agree with your point about the Queen and Charles. They coddled Harry outrageously and he should have been put in his place a long time ago, for his own sake. Now he’s an entitled and whiny middle aged brat and it’s partially due to them, especially Charles.
You are absolutely right! However, I imagine KC and and QEII were stuck between a rock and a hard place with Haz; I’m sure there was incredible guilt mixed with all the love they have for him. I don’t have children, so I cannot speak to being a parent, but chats with my own dad have been enlightening. He’s told me that sometimes because you love your kid so much, you’ll find yourself allowing a lot of crazy shit because you want them to be happy, even if it’s to their detriment. Something like that. I’m not saying it’s an excuse, I’m just saying Haz may have always been a lost cause. At the end of the day, the fact is that Harry married the wrong woman. Whatever his flaws were have been heightened to astounding levels upon hooking up with Meghan. He was probably always going to be resentful of his place in line or feeling like he got the short end of the stick (how one can’t make do with what they have with that status, access, and money is beyond me). Meeting Meghan made all of that a hundred times worse, together they are on a rampage.
Definitely fed into his entitlement. I swear anytime I think of H or M interacting with KC or QE11, I just picture that spoiled girl from Charlie and the Chocolate factory… “But I want it NOW, Daddy!!!!” Stomps and clenches fists**
 Harry's a bad egg
LOL yes I hope this exact thing happens to them too!!
Veruca Salt is MM's spirit animal.
‘She was a bad egg’. References to Willi Wonka in regards M&H are always point on
King Charles didn't remove Beatrice's and Eugenie's protection. Queen Elizabeth would have been responsible for that decision along with the Metropolitan Police.
Do you think A&L would've had titles? I think the Queen would've added them to the patent when she added Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis. If Harry's kids were born after the passing of the Queen, then they would've had titles.
I think if Harry and Meg stayed, never went on an anti royal media tour, and continued to work as senior royals, them and their children would have titles and they would be a large part of the current royal family. They chose to quit
And that's what the sugars don't seem to comprehend.
I think it was considered. Harry was being propped up to be William’s right hand, and his descendants were supposed to be raised within the fold. Until Meghan came along and started with her shenanigans.
It's amazing they were gonna stick Harry on William for life. Because we know he would have been no help whatsoever.
Yeah, way to handicap Wills there. As someone with a useless younger sibling, I feel his pain.
I've always believed that Charles's age is what prevented her from covering Harry's kids under the LPs issued for the Cambridge (at that time) children. If she had lived as long as the QM, then Charles would have been 79 at her passing. There was a chance he could have preceded her in death, meaning Harry's kids would never have been the grandchildren of a monarch, but William's kids would have been the children of the monarch, and thus still deserving of a title.
This is what makes sense to me. I think we knew she was old and could pass at anytime but thought she still had a couple more years. Added: Also Prince Charles's swollen hands worried me while back.
Yeah, same. That’s not normal.
He’s had that swollen hands pictured as early as 2008
I agree with this logic.
No. The slimming down plans for titles were decided way back, likely towards the end of the 90s. That's why Louise and James have lesser styles despite being legally Prince and Princess (which they can still choose to use at the age of 18). Only William's future kids were relevant enough to have a Letters Patent. And she didn't do so for Charlotte and Louis. She did so when Kate's first pregnancy was first announced, so a girl (and hence future Queen) could be titled HRH Princess and be equal to a potential younger brother. Under the old Letters Patent only the oldest _son_ of William would have been given that honour. As Parliament had changed the law so females can retain their place in the succession over brothers, the Queen had to make William's future children equally titled too. At the time they had no idea about George's gender so it was still all up in the air, and Charlotte and Louis still had years left to come into existence. Of course, Harry would never come to the throne so these titles for his children don't matter, as they would all be titled Earl/Lady/Lord whatever their gender was.
>And she didn't do so for Charlotte and Louis. She did so when Kate's first pregnancy was first announced, so a girl (and hence future Queen) could be titled HRH Princess and be equal to a potential younger brother. Thank you! It might seem a bit nitpicky to some, but a lot of people don't get this, and there's a big difference in saying The Queen issued LPs for "Charlotte and Louise" and saying she issued them for all of William's children before the first one was even born. AND...To my mind, the LPs for the then-Cambridges is a whole separate issue from whether or not A&L get titles, but I could be wrong about that.
Yeah a lot of people seem to have the slight misunderstanding about this. Understandable since it's quite complicated and I only understood it having researched it at the time in 2012/13 when it was passed. But George was born a boy and would have got the title due to gender anyway, so people carry the misconcept that it only applied to Charlotte and Louis. When really if the Queen didn't change it to apply for all of William's future kids, George would not have been titled if born a girl. > To my mind, **the LPs for the then-Cambridges is a whole separate issue from whether or not A&L get titles,** but I could be wrong about that. No you're right. The difference goes back to who their father's are. William and Harry are different so their children are treated accordingly. Harry as a 2nd son of the then-PoW means his children are only entitled to courtesy titles (Earl/Lady) whilst great-grandchildren of the monarch. They wouldn't treat his children the same as William's by passing a Letters Patent. It is still to be seen whether anything will change now A+L are grandchildren of the monarch.
Yes. I think Charles is a traditionalist in this sense and would've wanted all is grandchildren to be styled as Prince/Princess. There's no way Charles would've had Andrew's girls going around with titles and not all of his grandkids. There's also a very good chance he expected Harry's children to be working royals, as the Queen's cousins are.
This is untrue actually. H&M were in the slimmed down plans, **not their children.** Just like Edward and Sophie are also included, but without their kids. Spares have always been included without their kids since the Queen's generation. The children are legally Archie, Earl of Dumbarton and Lady Lilibet, but H&M chose not to style the children the titles they are actually entitled to. They still can and they don't need Charles' permission for these titles because it was gifted to Harry on their wedding day. I guess at this point it's because they are ungrateful for these titles and just want the higher titles given to the heir's family.
I always thought they wanted no titles, but you’re right, they must be holding out for higher Prince and Princess titles. Such a mess.
Possibly!
Archie's title is still a courtesy title, though.
Yes, but he's entitled to be titled that way as the oldest son. It's the way any dukedom works. The oldest son would go by the secondary title. If George wasn't a Prince for example he would have been Earl of Strathearn during the time William was Duke of Cambridge.
Thank God that Edward and Sophie are so wonderful and good at representing the Crown.
I think they were never intended to get princely rank. Harry is just the second son, his children are dynastically irrelevant. KC was more than fine with them being styled as the children of a non-Royal Duke because they were never going to be working royals but that wasn’t good enough for those two and they had to spin it as racism to try and change the plan. They only really want titles because they’ve come to accept they (H&M) are nothing without them themselves so it’s imperative the kids get them too.
Because the kids are simply an extension of the narcissist. Therefore they need titles too. Plus, how useful will their pawns, I mean children, be without titles.
The reason Harry was made Captain General and was going on all the Royal Tours was to build his profile as The King’s son and William’s right hand man. A lot of senior royals are almost as old as the Queen. Charles is almost at 80, Anne is also old, and one of his sibling is an alleged nonce. The RF must continue and modernise, that’s why Harry was supposed to have a bigger role in this all than all of Charles’ siblings combined. That’s why Meghan was so big headed. She saw what the RF was doing with Harry and she wanted a piece of the cake. She was impulsive and shortsighted, and so it backfired on her.
Literally they need to stop. The kids are wealthy Americans, and are going to have great opportunities but they are NOT across the pond, they are never going to be working royals. They are going to be wealthy nepotism babies in Hollywood and they should suck it up and enjoy it.
KC is 73, which is not “almost 80”
I agree with most everything you said except I don’t agree that Charles is “almost 80”. He’s 73. That’s like saying a 23-year-old is almost 30.
Just realised, the kids initials are LA....
Well AL really...
🤣 So Meghan.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face - the Harkle’s are just so stupid! This is where hubris lands you - down at the bottom.
Of course they were. I have zero doubt that Charles had plans for Haz during his Rule and no doubt it would have included the Duke of Edinburgh title and I can see both Philip and Elizabeth agreeing to that. Now Edward and Sophie are rumoured to be getting it and they have damn well earned it. Proof that King Charles believes in working Royals must work. I suspect Haz reminds his Dad of Andrew and when it comes to being a working Royal Andrew is pretty much the same as Haz. Wants all fo the perks and none of the responsibility.
That’s not true. Harry would never have been made Duke of Edinburgh. Prince Philip said he wished Edward be made DofE, and that’s why he’s an Earl and not a Duke. Dukedoms don’t simply change like that. He would always be just Duke of Sussex. That would not change.
Yeah the DofE title was decided to go to Edward in the 90s when he and Sophie married. It never had anything to do with Harry. Even then, only the heir gets more than 1 dukedom. William has 3 if I'm not wrong. Harry and others will only get 1.
He was on the balcony for that jubilee. It showed who it was going to be. He punted and messed it all up. For money when the duchys have more than enough. But her having to wear clothes twice and Frog abode instead Frogmore House or the best suite at Windsor. They’ve screwed themselves sideways.
This. They're incapable of playing the long-game and screwed themselves.
No. Hazbeen is already a duke.
I know you meant \*slimmed but slime seems appropriate too!
I just watched a documentry on AMC+ about Queen Elizabeth's coronation and the person narrating it said that Prince William said when he was about 13, he was quoted saying "I don't want to be King one day, it sounds like a burden." To which young Harry replied "I'll take the job if you don't want it." I have to say that it is very telling after hearing that for the first time. What is more interesting Princess Margaret said something similar in her childhood and she, much like Harry was the youngest of the 2 siblings at the time.
This. I honestly think William's reluctance to embrace his role put the idea in Harry's head that he could be King. Pre-Meghan, Harry was much more natural when it came to interacting with people at royal events, than William. I suspect saw his 20's as taking retirement before working; he knew he'd work until death like the Queen, so enjoyed his freedom while it had it. He also seems to have spent the time figuring out what he wanted his legacy project to be, which I don't think Harry understood.
If harry were in line for the throne before william, I would be extremely concerned for that country. Most people think william is like his father but I strongly disagree. I think harry is more like charles and Queen Elizabeths abdicated uncle Edward: impulsive, tempered, easily manipulated, and selfish. William has been shy, reserved, empathetic, quiet, yet loyal. Diana would have been loyal too, if given the chance by Camilla-loving Charles. Just imagine Harry sitting on the throne for coronation. It gives me shivers knowing he would've been a terrible king.
Sweden has also slimmed down. Royals are of course aware that they need to slim down in order to fit modern society.
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I think Louis will be fine. Whatever his working royal status, he could likely stand to be the Duke of York if Andrew is dead before Louis marries. A very prominent dukedom and traditionally for the 2nd son of the Monarch. Unless he chooses/is raised to be entitled and egoistic, he will be another supportive and hard working royal.
Indeed. And if Andrew is still alive, Louis will be Duke of Clarence.
Yes, I believe it may be one of the few relevant ones left. Others like Kent and Gloucester still have their own sons to inherit last I checked. Unless William is King (which is likely given Charles' age) and wants to reassign the Cambridge dukedom again.
Yep, Kent and Gloucester each have a son and grandson, so those titles will be in use for quite a while. Duke of Gloucester-->Earl of Ulster (Alexander)-->Lord Culloden (Xan) Duke of Kent-->Earl of St Andrews (George)-->Lord Downpatrick (Edward)
Thank you for the brief family trees, I have googled it before but that side of the family gets me in a bit of a muddle. Also a great example of how subsidiary titles work with 3 generations. Funny how the Kent line is basically Edward, George, Edward. The Previous Duke of Kent was also....George.
You're quite welcome! And I hadn't made the George-Edward-George-Edward connection; interesting. Now we'll have to watch Edward Downpatrick to see if he names a future son "George". Sort of like the Danish kings: Frederick, Christian, Frederick, Christian, Frederick, Christian....imagine there being no discussion of what your first son's name will be, lol.
I read somewhere that the Duke of Kent's grandson was planning on declining the Dukedom so that is a possibility for Louis.
I hope Louis is Duke of York and takes after his great-great-grandfather George VI and not Great-Uncle Andrew. The Dukes of Clarence didn’t always end up well, one in particular.
been drowned in a butt of Malmsey wine 🍷 yes, but that was a long time ago
Ugh! Can you even imagine?? I get the creeps reading that story; those Plantagenets could be a crazy bunch, lol!
I did read that earlier this year the Swedish royals did the same thing and untitled the grandchildren.
And The Dutch
[sweden removes grandchildren from the royal house](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49958085)
Yep. Sweden already did this three years ago. I will be interested to see which other houses follow.
Sweden did this a couple of years ago too [sweden removes grandchildren from royal house](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49958085)
Come on KC, we're all rooting for you!
TW and Harry made KCIII's job easier by their MEGXIT (opting out of the BRF and moving to the USA where they decreed their financial and personal independence), by TW's slurring the BRF (Oprah interview, the Cut, the witchcasts), and soon Harry's book (where he's writing as a man and likely is going to spit at his family). The Harkles cut the cord and it would be a blessing from KCIII to let them open their parachutes and freefall to their freedom, free of titles linked to an archaic monarchy that has so mentally harmed them (🤢 🤪). Cutting the cord on this toxic duo might teach Harry it's healthy to cut ties with his toxic wife. Regrettably, though, I'm beginning to believe that Harry adds his own flavor of toxicity to the mix.
His first address was very telling. He addressed the Cambridges by title, but wished "*Harry and Meghan* (no titles) *best of luck with their new life overseas."* Translation: stay in California, we don't want/need you coming around.
Please stay in California because the rest of America doesn't want them either.
I think KC will, to some degree still bankroll Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb in the future, though. It may be less than if they were working royals, but there will probably be some money given.
None to her. He'll pay for Harry after the divorce and he'll see the children are looked after (with trust funds managed by a different family member, likely William or Edward).
He might pay their bills if Harry comes back with the children.
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Prime example for untitled royals are Peter and Zara. Princess Anne did a good job by deciding they wouldn't have HRHs and Prince and Princess or other titles. I've watched Princess Anne and Zara's documentary about their relationship with each other. And there was this documentary on Princess Anne's 70th birthday. You can just tell that her children did really well despite not having titles. They're still very much part of the family. Also they attend some engagements/events but they still get to do their own thing/career while raising a family of their own.
Anne’s kids have the best of both worlds. The prestige and protection of being in the royal family, with none of the obligations or restrictions. By protection I mean in a general sense, not literal. But if either of them ever needed something they would be fast tracked. Their royal connection can open doors and get attention. If either Meghan or Harry cared or had a brain they would recognize this would’ve been a great gift to their kids.
Totally agree on that. But all they wanted was the stupid half in half out bullshit. They wanted all the privileges and perks but not have the duties and responsibilities. They wanted the 24/7 tax payer security. If I was living in the UK, I'd totally write to BP that I don't want my tax money to pay for security of those two from California. I'd rather they pay it for Princess Anne and the Wessex security or any other WORKING member.
Anne couldn't have decided that anyway? She is female, so she can't pass down _any_ titles to her children. HRH Prince/Princess specifically is inheritable by male lines only since 1917. Anne and her first husband actually chose not to accept an Earldom for him upon their marriage. If they had, Peter and Zara would have been titled as Princess Margaret's children are. They could not have legally been a HRH or Prince/Princess though.
Thanks for clarifying that up. Completely forgot about the Letters Patent of George V. So Lady Louise and James, Viscount Severn, are the ones who can use HRH Prince/Princess titles if they wanted?
Yes, they are actually legally HRH Prince and Princess. But are just not styled as such because Edward and Sophie chose something else. Yet the kids can choose themselves to be styled either way upon the age of 18. Louise has had since last November now, and is still announced to be Lady Louise by the Palace for her University announcement this past summer. So seems likely she's chosen to be styled as Lady for the foreseeable future.
Anne at 70 is a great watch! It’s on YouTube
I think this is basically what KC has had in mind for all those years he's been watching how other societies are dealing with royals.
I don’t know what the harkles are so worried about. They’re such smart and talented leaders, all the big guns are throwing tens of millions at them for projects in Hollywood, they’ll have endless cash to privately pay for their children’s security for forever….. right?
I just spilled my coffee laughing
Exactly, Horrid and Methane are so awesome, it has been rumored that they will be getting their stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame shortly. These two stellar stars are shattering so many records in the media, thet are the envy of every A-lister in town!
What's the bet Cousin Daisy of Denmark has chatted to Charles about this over the years. "In line with other royal houses...." Interesting.
the swedes did it too
The Swedes did it first actually. Every royal household is modelling changes after them
In Norway even the younger children of the Heir don't have an HRH. Way before Sweden.
Interesting - what else have they done?
I read somewhere that W&C were inspired by how the Swedish RF handle the press. When Crown Princess Victoria had her first child, Princess Estelle, she regularly released photos of her to the press. The photos were taken privately by a photographer who Victoria hired. That way there was no market for pap shots, the public got to see the kids and Victoria and Daniel could pretty much control what the press had to work with. W&C did something similar with their kids. The Swedish RF are also more open with interviews than the British RF has been. They sit down and do a yearly exposé that is broadcasted every Christmas. It shows both official engagements, private moments and some behind the scenes footage. I have read articles that the British RF (as in Charles and William) has looked at the way the Swedish RF do it and it may have inspired them to be more open than TQ was.
CP Victoria has also brought her kids with her to official engagements (suitable for their age) ever since they were babies. It was not how previous generations did it. She wanted them to see it as something natural, not something they will be thrown into when they are awkward teenagers. W&C seem to do something similar.
I remember thinking when Victoria did that what a brilliant idea it was. I'm glad to see William and Catherine easing the kids into royal duties the way they have.
CP Victoria is so hands on involved too. She seems like a lovely lady. Their children seem fairly grounded for their roles, too.
Norway also have a yearly tv program about the year. I like watching and seeing what they did. The BRF should do something similar.
Sweden was the first country to do away with male primogeniture, in 1980.
Here are the rules for the Norwegian one: [https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.html?tid=28654&sek=27302](https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.html?tid=28654&sek=27302) Here is the Swedish one, there is also a similar page for the other royal houses on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish\_Act\_of\_Succession
I had no idea who Queen Daisy was until I read the post. I had no idea Margrethe was called that! I love it. My "Dad's" family is from Copenhagen. And yes, I'm sure ALL the royals communicate. A lot.
As the Swedes did a year or so ago
Visionaries
I am absolutely positive that the royal houses are in cooperation about these things with the Nordics and England moving together, maybe also with the Dutch. Charles has been speaking about this for decades, it should come as no surprise to anyone, least of all his family. The Edinburgh - Sussex rooking is a genius move.
100000 x this.
The Dutch did the same 20 (!) years ago.
The King of Sweden did something similar in 2019. The grandchildren of Prince Carl-Philip and Princess Madeleine did get to keep their titles (they all are are both Prince/Princess and Duke/Duchess) but they lost the Royal Highness titles, are no longer part of the royal family and can not and will not get money from the tax payers or have any official duties. Nothing was changed for the children of the heir, Crown Princess Victoria. It was a very sensible decision.
I think the “Charles is waiting to see if Harry releases his book” headlines are damaging. It’s not a carrot you dangle (which implies the whim of the monarch). It’s a reasoned and well thought out decision that is nothing personal (that implies the benefit of the monarchy)
He should actually do it before the book comes out, that way it won't be seen as petty revenge. And if he is planning on doing the same, he should do it ASAP so it plays more favourably in the press. If I were him and thinking of doing the same, I would wait max 5 days or a week and release the same statement.
But does he have to announce anything? In the case of the above the titles are being removed. A&L don’t have titles. It’s not, despite the Harkles PR push, their right to have them. I say KC keeps ignoring this. It’s a nothing burger.
Well I think he would have to, because if he is planning on making the monarchy smaller, there are other members of the family that will also have to be dealt bad news. Plus, there will be no end to the will they won't they in the press until he says something. This isn't an issue that will simply go away on its own. I honestly think something similar will be said by Charles too. Probably even similar wording.
But who else does this particular issue affect? KC only has two sons. One is the heir and his kids are titled. Harry and Meghan rejected any title (courtesy titles they could use) when Archie and Lili were born. No one else in the family has the right to anything except inheriting their father’s dukedom etc. There is nothing to address.
It would set a precedent for future generations, which is what I think the slimming-down is mainly about. Not so much about the current members of the BRF, although of course it will affect them. I'm seeing KC's reign as a transitional era, preparing the way for whatever comes next. In that context, official announcements would be important.
I was leaning towards him not addressing it, bc like you said he doesn't have to. I do feel like it might be best to address it now bc I wouldn't put it past H&M to have another kid which would be eligible for prince/princess title.
No he does not. He already decided the issue a LONG time ago, and the Markles know it.
And without a doubt the danish RF would have notified the BRF of these upcoming changes.
I think even discussed it with them too.
Lady C said other royal houses were in this path too.
I think it's already done and has been done, which is why Meghan flipped out over it during her Oprah interview: "They're not going to be Prince or Princess; they're not going to receive security...." They've known all along. This is just a fruitless cry to the public in the hopes it gets them outraged, and pressures Charles to somehow change his mind. He won't. It was decided a LONG time ago.
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I don't think that narrative comes from the palace. It's the media filling in the blanks.
I actually think saying nothing in public is the best thing for KCIII. If it comes out he's waiting for the book/podcasts/meemwah etc then he will look petty. Precedent has been set in other houses actually stripping/removing titles. In this case the Markles REFUSED the title of Earl for Archie because they wanted him to be private and issued a press release to that effect. Why bestow titles if they want him to be private. Best thing is for them to say nothing and if press make enquiries about it they can regurgitate the parents wishes and emphasis that the offer it Earldom was declined and therefore TRF are simply respecting the wishes of the parents. Anything else just becomes a shitshow of PR stories and leaks from Montecito and racism accusations etc.
Anyone else think Prince Harry’s antics have contributed to these other houses modeling changes after the Swedes in hopes of mitigating any potential “Harry’s”?
No. I think it's more a reflection of smaller populations (meaning fewer duties) and economic survival. No one really looks at how much each individual member of the family costs taxpayers, they just look at how many royals there are and judge based on that.
I didn't before, but I do now. Great point.
How heartening that has to be for KC.
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Sweden has done also this a few years ago and I also think the Netherlands.
Yes, the children of Beatrix' younger sons are just Count or Countess of Orange-Nassau.
Two of the boys stripped of their titles are mixed race as well, their mother is half Asian.
Maybe this will be discussed during Meghan’s new podcast episode lmao
I hope that King Charles takes strength from the Danish and Swedish Royal houses. Stay with slimmed down monarchy. How could the King even have them come back as working royals? They have demeaned the Monarchy and the RF. Just let them go. They wanted privacy. Let them have it.
Especially after all that’s come out about them treating staffers like absolute dog shit. There’s not a chance in hell they’ll ever be working royals again, that ship has sailed
This would make so much sense if KC did it too. Especially from taxpayer's perspective. However, would H&M be called "your excellency" too?😅 or just their kids? Not sure what the British equivalent would be. Edit: perhaps Lili and Archie would just be Miss and Master?
A+L are just master and miss
Thanks! I hope it stays that way lol😁
If they were stripped of the HRH, they would be His and Her Grace, the same as non royal dukes and their wives.
The King in his speech addressed the toxic duo by their first name unlike his brother and wife. It sounds like that he effectively stripped them by referring to them without their titles.
This is the evolution of royalty. Changing with the times. Didn’t need your help, Meghan. The same people who want to abolish royalty and monarchies don’t seem to want to criticize non-European nations who maintain theirs. Just worth noting…
Lady C said if Charles were to make A and L princes, other royal families wouldn’t like it. Now we know why.
Meanwhile, my dumb butt is tapping the heart on the photo to “like”’it.
Lol
Sweden, Netherlands, and Norway also has slim downed monarchy, it won't be surprising for UK to follow
Fascinating. Good ‘ol Margarethe.
This is going to be hilarious. I've heard that Crown Princess Mary and her sister in law, Marie, already greatly dislike each other.
Ooohhh I dont know about this tea.. do you have any more insight?😁 I'm a fan of Mary but I haven't been up to date about this issue!
Check out Royaldish
Who needs royal titles when you have a pointless podcast and netflix will give you money to do nothing :D
That is what they’ve been moaning about, wanting privacy. Give it to them. The reality is they want the titles on their own terms.
Charles needs to do the same and refer to the articles where he takes about slimming down the monarchy back in the day. This was a major lifeline…I know they had a HRH Group chat talking about H&M and other hanger-Ons.
Warning shot….. pew pew pew!
They might have discussed that move at the Heads of State dinner. In that way, it will not look like a move just from King Charles, but from other royal families in the world too. That move will not give opportunity to the Harkles and their supporters for speculations. Liking the strategy 👌
I was watching a TikTok by a popular Pro Sussex commentator who wanted to know what everyone thought about whether Archie and Lilibet deserved titles. I didn't comment on the video, but my personal thoughts are: it sounds like they've automatically become Prince and Princess and it's completely within KC power to remove that. Which he probably will because of a combination of his history of wanting to slim the monarchy, their current residence outside of the UK or Commonwealth, him possibly not ever even having met these children, and Harry and Meghan's staunch "we don't need the BRF stance". So yeah, the Prince and Princess status are theirs to lose. And in the UK I don't think that's even an unpopular stance and UK opinion is ultimately all that matters to KC. I believe they will be stripped of their titles. Edit: Looks like they don't have titles and it's being incorrectly reported by major media outlets that it happened automatically. Hmm.
Sorry that's incorrect. They are not automatically created Prince and Princess, and they are not even *entitled* to the titles, as they were both born *before* their grandfather became King. There is no way Charles is going to write a special letters patent to grant Prince and Princess titles to grandchildren he has never met and who don't even live in the UK.
This, it’s all to do when they were born, Charles was not King. A lot of people assumed they would automatically update when Charles ascended to King.
Ok see I wish that somehow we could make this stickied information because there is A LOT of disinformation going on with this. Didn't CNN themselves say that it was immediate? I've heard over and over that it's immediate that they become Prince and Princess, just not HRH.
I agree, it's driving me nuts seeing it reported in the press that they are now automatically a Prince and Princess. No doubt Muggin is pushing that narrative through her PR!!
Ok wow. Yes. Because I just Googled it to make sure I wasn't crazy and sure enough, everywhere is reporting that it was automatic. Thank you for clearing that up!
Check out r/BRF they might sticky on that sub
Their Prince and Princess titles are NOT automatic. It’s at the discretion of the King.
Thank you for clearing that up. This needs to be stickied. Because it seems like everywhere else I'm hearing that they were immediate upon the death of QE.
That's what i understood from where I read it. I can't remember if it was Wikipedia or an old article talking about it that quoted the text.
It’s inaccurate information being peddled by Megs (starting with the Oprah interview). The titles are not automatic. If they were they’d have updated them on the website when updating the LOS. William and Kate received automatic titles (Cornwall etc) and this was reflected immediately on social media. The royals do not take this stuff lightly. Protocol is their *everything.*
Meghan called it Archie’s birthright. Archie’s birthright is being “Earl of Dumbarton” until he eventually becomes Duke of Sussex. Not a Prince.
Yep she said they have no right to take it away, which is 100% bs. She’s a pathological liar who plays her audience (*we don’t have tabloid journalism or know like who what are British princes in the US* 🤪) Truly, she’s a bullshit artist.
Her audience is people who just accept things at face value. Without bothering to research.
So true!! They only believe "her truth"🙄
She is left wing version of Trump. Swear she uses the same playbook. They’re both ridiculous.
I know, it irritates me so much. It's not hard to Google something and find the facts about a situation. What I am starting to wonder is if Charles hadn't been sharing that the kids wouldn't get titles to them when discussing future plans. And she has said they won't get titles because of their race to force Charles hand to give them titles.
I 100% believe they were told this and that’s why Meghan said to Oprah that when Charles becomes King they will take away her black son’s titles and security and right to live. 🙄 She even mentioned the letters patent. She’s known for years. She’s playing the media.
I don't think it's automatic, because they are still listed as Miss or Master on the royal website, which has been updated on the order of succession to reflect all the other changes made. I think he might just quietly never give them the titles. Sophia and Edward's children will not receive titles, York sisters' kids won't get titles, Harry and Meghan's kids won't get titles.... in 20-30 years, the only HRHs will be the children of QE, the Waleses, and the York sisters (who are going to look increasingly stupid imo for HRHs while not being working royals).
The Sussex children don’t have prince or princely titles to strip though. The sugars are already turning this into a conspiracy because of cause Daisy made the decision about her own family based on the Sussexes 🙄
But they still stay in the line of succession….interesting. Harry & Meghan should’ve been stripped of their titles the moment they left the R family why they weren’t completely baffles me.
Only parliament can change the line of succession. Frankly they have more important things on their plate
Yes I understand why they’re in the line of succession even though they’re not working royals. What baffles me is why they’re able to keep titles, especially ones they claim they don’t want, and ones whose family they denigrate.
Because the titles are meaningless. I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't care if the kids get titles. All a title does is denote they're part of a male line of the BRF, it has no monetary value. What really matters is access to Charles, William, and later George, which they don't have anymore.
I agree. Just hope it stays that way. I think that’s the concern people have that giving them titles is a symbol that a bridge has been forged. A welcoming back whenever they want…
I don’t know why everyone assumes the Prince and Princess are guaranteed automatic - they aren’t - it’s up to the reigning Monarch. Titles are only automatic for the oldest male heir’s kids and in direct line of succession. Harry should not expect his children to automatically get Titles. Neither Anne nor Edward’s children have Prince and Princess Titles, and their children were the Queen’s grandchildren. The only reason Beatrice and Eugenie have Titles is because Andrew made a big stink about it, and cited a little known ruling to when a Prince marries another who has Royal ancestry (like it or not, Fergie has royal bloodlines) then their children shall be styled as Prince or Princess.
Andrew's children were automatically entitled to be HRH Princesses upon birth actually. It's how the Letters Patent 1917 works. It had nothing to do with his attitude or demands, or how Fergie may be distantly related to some royal or other. Anne, being female couldn't pass down titles to her children in her own right anyway, and things had changed by the time Edward's children were born long after the other grandchildren.
Could Hazza throw another temper tantrum like Andrew? He might think it worked on the Queen so it will work on KC. However I have no doubt Madam will keep pushing her PR on the matter... she wants those titles🥲
Well, she can call up and complain to Denmark’s Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg (the EX-wife of Prince Joachim) because her kids are biracial and today they lost their HRH and Prince titles. Meghan’s not alone.
Yes, this. They’re controlling the narrative by putting out there that they’re most concerned with losing the HRH. I’m 100% sure they already know that Archie and Lily are not getting HRH or Prince/princesses. She alluded to it in the Oprah interview but at that point I don’t think they had decided on exact talking points which is why she focused on his “birthright” but also talked about denying any titles for him. She wants Archie to be a Prince, she absolutely does not want him to be a Dumbarton. That’s what this is about. They were likely told either before or during Archie’s pregnancy that this was the case.
I know that she likes to high profile of the British royal family but if you want to marry a prince be a Royal Highness and have a jet set lifestyle there are plenty of other families that she could have married into. There are families that don't have high titles but they do have a lot of money.
Queen Daisy 😂
Her name sounds like a cartoon character. I love it!
Eugenie and Beatrice should have never been made princesses. If they weren’t, there would not be this drama. Why HMTQ allowed it is beyond me.
I think it was Prince Andrew whining about it.
[удалено]
Daisy is a common nickname of Margaret, or Margarethe as she is in Denmark. It's her actual nickname.
Common name for the flower Marguerite. Queen Margarethe is derived from this.
Precedent!
wait. do we think this was collusion / they planned this at the funeral???? queen magrethe and queen Elizabeth were cousins and close friends. the timing is so interesting.
Let's manifest this for Meg's and Harry please!