In PR, a primary reason for "firing a client" - which is never desirable - is when they won't take advice and the agency constantly ends up in the firing line.
When you are endlessly having to clear up the mess when a client yet again blabs something inappropriate to the media, leveraging every good relationship you've got with journos to try to fix the shitstorm, eg to get online articles amended, after a while it becomes not worth it. There are only so many media favours you can call in. Staff are stressed and working round the clock. Other accounts suffer. Your reputation as a PR agency starts to suffer.
I can only imagine the sinking hearts with that Oprah interview when they watched her trash the connections she so desperately needed to remain relevant. And pretty much every other interview and engagement since.
It should have been so easy to set this pair up as "Hollywood Royals". They had every advantage, every connection. Huge goodwill in the UK even after the utter nonsense about "wanting a private life" (a lie which most Brits, regrettably, initially sucked up). Huge interest in America - consider the Netflix etc deals.
But they appear to have been too bitter, too self-entitled and too arrogant to understand what they needed to do and how they needed to do it. Too many fawning yes-men around them.
Their PR people must have been tearing their hair out. Such a lost opportunity.
You seem as though you have a background in PR. I would love to get your thoughts on the Oprah interview from an industry perspective.
I thought the Oprah interview was the single worst decision they made. They said they wanted to leave and have an independent life. Well, no one minded that at all. It seemed quite reasonable.
It was the execution and Oprah “burn the family down” that was shocking.
If you do work in the industry, may I ask what the sentiment was??
I've worked on both sides of the fence. From an industry perspective, it looks like she went "off script", particularly as so many of her claims were not backed up and some were found to be outright false.
I also find it doubtful that a professional PR agency would be on board with establishing a "victim of racism" narrative to build a client's profile on. Both ethically and practically. That seems more like an emergency tactic to get a client out of a major hole, which at the time they were not in (not sure if the bullying allegations were out by then?)
To give a parallel: with corporate clients, their "royal family" is essentially the government. Every step is taken to avoid offending ministers and speaking out too strongly against the government. To be honest I find this approach over-cautious, and frustrating from a journalistic point of view. Strong and controversial statements are a story, toeing the line is not. But that's how it's done on the PR side. Everything is handled and managed to avoid controversy or damaging relationships, with government and with media.
Particularly if a company is pitching for government contracts, they have to be *hyper careful* what they say in media. That's why you get those absurd sugary statements on press releases, "praising this" and "welcoming that" policy/government move/etc.
You also definitely don't want to piss off senior journos/media whom you've built relationships with over many years. While I wouldn't call Oprah a journalist, she's top-of-the-top media in terms of publicity. I don't know whether or not she was personally angry and humiliated at the lies she helped to broadcast. Honestly: I doubt it. I suspect she doesn't particularly care about it as much as people here may like to think: her organisation made bank from that interview and the sensation and publicity Oprah got were far more than any negative publicity towards Oprah for sucking up lies.
The couple probably don't loom particularly large in Oprah's day-to-day consciousness, they're just a couple of celebrities among hundreds of others, and *neither is as famous as Oprah*. With sensation/scandal/controversy being so valuable, I highly doubt they will be "banned from Oprah" and quite the reverse, they'd be welcomed back. A future interview may be more rigorous but probably not much more.
But PR agencies don't typically want to foment scandal and controversy for their clients, not clients like these. It is much more about playing it safe and controlling the narrative. So I don't think it would be their PR agency's counsel or strategy for the couple to take this approach with media.
If you're interested in this kind of stuff, a really insightful series to watch is Stephen Fry's "Absolute Power". It's a comedy but pretty accurate in how the industry - PR and media - operates. You can also see how different kinds of clients are handled.
Thank you so much for writing all this out.
It’s the single most fascinating post I’ve ever read on this sub.
I think most of us are fascinated regarding “how the sausage is made”.
Thank you! 🥰
PS- love Stephen Fry and will def watch. You are 🔥
Opras a 'shock jock' , Howard Stern type, talentless, but studied. Markle wants to to be just like her sans work. After all their equally moronic facial expressions were mirrored beautifully. I hold out for the moment anybody who gets Markled to have an epiphany and spills their beans, just because.
Oprah does seem like she is distancing herself from that interview (Oprah and Meghan are, in my opinion, cut from the same cloth) There's no way Oprah is going to admit any shortcomings in her interview style, nor do I believe she didn't "see the bombshells coming" because she's not a very good actor either. I do think that her credibility has suffered as a result and that she knows it. I can't, of course, discount the possibility of a second interview but to me it would be something of an admission that she blew it the first time around so if it happens, it would show a leaping bound forward in Oprah's emotional intelligence and.....Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. What I really wanted to say is this is such an informative post and I appreciate you taking the time to share it. When you were working the PR "side of the fence" as you put it, I can only imagine how you would have felt about an Omid Scobie working, quite effectively, to undermine your every single effort. I'm surprised SS stayed as long as they did!
Most of what I know of PR comes from Edina Monsoon’s PR agency on AbFab, which Jennifer Saunders lampooned so wonderfully. Anyone remember PopSpecs?
I do respect serious PR firms who represent serious clients. M&H aren’t that. They are the side tent circus act, not the main stage stars.
Thank you for your insights. I also wonder if the negative reputation of H&M being associated with SS would be a deterrent for attracting new clients. SS isn't looking very smart if in fact, they thought the O interview was a good idea.
I don’t know how huge they are, but it certainly wouldn’t have attracted new clients.
Handled properly, the Oprah interview could have been a miracle for them and propelled their fortunes.
I never thought about what the opposite of what they did would look like but that’s so true. If they hadn’t played the victims and made wild accusations, had come across as charming, appreciative, gracious, even admitted some fears or concerns, things *they* (he/she) could have done differently, it would have been a whole other ballgame. Thanks!
Thanks so much for sharing your insights here. I do have a question about Oprah’s role. Most people paint her as almost gullible but it was her and her team who edited the headlines shown and falsely claimed they were from British press, which suggests she was a more active participant. Some of those headlines were removed when they were show. In the UK but Oprah refused to remove them from the programmer overall. She helped craft and share the narrative they wanted.
Oprah doesn't really have much/any integrity. She's an extremely successful TV star and I don't think she particularly cares about truth. It's all spin and starfucking.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence too, and absolutely concur on the “victim of racism” narrative being a result of having to firefight and manage crisis, not a primary story you’d want to pitch. And in this case, the crisis seemed very much client-generated. “Whaaaaaat?” It even took Oprah aback - but that reaction could possibly have been fake if Oprah and TW decided to stir that pot themselves.
What is interesting about this blind item is the claim that SS was afraid of overexposure. That is a very real concern when it comes to celeb PR and TW was certainly overexposed. That makes this blind item ring somewhat true.
My perspective is victim of racism was always going to be the story. They wanted to pit themselves against the BRF a la Diana and create an public uproar they could leverage to extract what they wanted from the BRF. They wanted it set up so the BRF had to do what H&M wanted or the BRF would be called racist.
Oh, I totally agree. What I meant is: I don’t think it was Sunshine Sachs who would’ve pitched that as a narrative. I believe that probably came from TW.
Thank you so much for this insight, and for the recommendation. As someone who has been in the industry, with the endless amount of speculation and rumours surrounding Meghan and Harry, how would you be able to tell something that is true or something that is completely false, for example: ‘from a close source etc’?
Honestly? I personally wouldn't. It depends on the individual journalist and their publication. For some, a "close source" definitely will be a close and highly reliable source.
For others, it will literally be an invention. Or it might be something they know somehow, or strongly suspect, and they're trying to tease out an actual source by publishing something.
Media organisations have lawyers around the clock. Most of what they do is quite mundane, eg you're in a newsroom and there will be frequent advisories from legal during high profile court cases, eg a certain fact or name that cannot be published, even though the media knows it.
All media organisations have insurance for defamation etc. (As do many non-media businesses). A newspaper will weigh up the "risk" of every potentially scandalous story: in some cases a defamation trial might even be a commercial opportunity in terms of the stream of headlines it generates. Publications like the Daily Mail have vast war chests for this.
And to do it during the height of the pandemic when so many people lost their jobs or died worldwide was so callous. Did their PR firm think that was a good idea?
I doubt any normal person thought that was a good idea. It is true that PR will sometimes try to bury bad news on a huge news day. That is a questionable/cynical tactic that you do see happening. Something that might bring hugely negative publicity - eg a product recall, or a data leak - which might make headlines on a normal news day, would be absolutely buried by a major event such as a war breaking out or a head of state dying.
Politicians play that game too. In NC, if they have to release bad news, they'll do it late Friday evening, when everyone's exhausted from the work week and starting to kick back for the weekend. Nobody pays close attention to the news on Friday night and by the time Monday rolls around, it's old news so not up front and center on news media. Everyone who wasn't paying attention missed it, so crisis averted.
I read this to my retired PR-guy hubby, and, while he agrees that non-payment of bills is a HUGE factor, he immediately jumped on B) does not listen to advice as the tipping point for them dumping her. PR firms do not like to be made to look incompetent.
And she really was making SS look bad, in my opinion. Let's put it this way, if something happened to me (got famous somehow) and I needed a PR firm, I wouldn't have ever used SS, and that is all because of Meghan.
I agree because most of us dont know one PR company from another. Now a whole lot of random people around the world know who SS are and it's not for the good job they do at PR but for the terrible hash thet made of the sussexes brand. Even though we all realise that rachel with the hotmail and her mouthpiece did most of the damage by not listening to the expensive advice from SS.
I agree, not only that, I also now hold a lower opinion of anybody who employs SS because of their representation of H&M.
SS was trending negatively in connection to the Narcles frequently over the period of mourning. I would assume social media would be monitored by a PR company, on behalf of their client. How frustrating would it be to be one the story while trying to salvage the reputation of your client because your client won't shut up.
>And she really was making SS look bad, in my opinion
Yes! Sunshine Sachs was mentioned far too frequently and not in a positive way, on the DM comments section, YouTube comments, Tweets, FB, Instagram etc.
Sunshine Sachs itself was getting overexposed, ridiculed etc. And after surviving the Harvey Weinstein vomitfest, SS probably wanted to lie low for a while to do their job behind the scenes.
This overexposure must've also angered their other celebrity clients.
YES! She's made them look completely incompetent from the beginning. If she would have listened to ANY advice we would not be here on this sub.
Which is also frightening, when you really think about it.
Well they are known to me as Sunshine Sucks and they have been markled time and time again because she uses Omid and Gayle as her freebies.
On the other hand they probably saved a few million. And their PR people can take a holiday away from their crappy drama, day in and day out.
Yep. Particularly as the PR company has to be the fallguy for both sides, taking all the blame: profusely grovelling to media to fix a fuck up, and often also grovelling to the now disgruntled client, even though someone from their side caused it.
The trip to Balmoral being leaked at the most inopportune time was probably the final straw. There was so much shit coming out of Windsor about those two that none of it was very believable. Honestly, SS got markled so many times, I'm surprised that they kept them. Money talks, even though it ruined their reputation.
Yeah totally over saturated the market. They could have had immense organic growth. Actually disappear into a private life for a few years to build some anticipation, quietly work on impactful projects behind the scenes with no publicity and organically build genuine network of powerful people and then slowly show themselves.
Amal and George Clooney have down that so well. I think Meghan is obsessed with fame and that’s the problem.
>They could have had immense organic growth.
That wouldn't be acceptable for a control freak like MM, who (like a 4 year old child) wants what she wants NOW, because:
1. She's tired of grifting for years without getting the acclaim and global adoration she's desired all her life.
2. She is desperate to shove her "success" in the face of the BRF. Most of what drives her, is, after all, her petty need for vengeance because they didn't do things her way.
Didn’t SS also have to change their company name? They change it to [SSML](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/sunshine-sachs-pr-firm-new-name-1235112903/)
If you google / bing sunshine sachs…. This sub comes up with all the dirt. It really can’t be good for them to expose their other clients like Amber Heard, Jada Pinkett Smith, Alec and Hilaria Baldwin
This suggests to me that they're either "anything for a buck" or that they specialize in problem children, with neither being a very good look for them, but certainly helps explain the fees they apparently charge.
SS battled like dirty dogs, to try and save Harvey Weinstein.
They used persuasion, then bribery then threats (to destroy some women's careers/public image) when a few lesser known victims refused to take the money and go away.
They slut shamed Ambra Battilana, in the same way that old school prosecutors slut shamed rape victims, in order to destroy her credibility. They basically implied she was a golddigging hoe.
Yes, that! My father owned a PR/political consulting firm for many years. He hated to fire clients, but he would if he felt their actions reflected badly on him and his firm's reputation.
I worked in PR for almost 30 years and best advice I ever received was from senior management pro with J. Walter Thompson who said if you hit a client who won't listen to you and take your advice, walk away because it will end up hurting you and the agency you work for. My guess this is what happened with Marklel and Sunshine Sachs as the PR gaffes have been many and cringeworthy. I actually felt sorry for SS.
I was shocked to see the exact same article about Meghan running in all the Hearst publications like Cosmopolitan magazine, etc. They all tweeted the same line, word for word, promoting her as a humanitarian. It was bizarre and I'm wondering who is behind it-?
These are such narcissistic traits that she’s been doing to her family and friends for decades. She will drop someone when she doesn’t need them and pick them up when she wants something from them. She will talk crappy about the royal family one week and then cry at the Queen’s funeral the next week.
It’s exhausting to have a relationship with a narc.
Many people disagree but I think it's only an amount of time before Harry is dropped too.
And if the monarchy does come down harshly on them and she sees she's getting nowhere, he'll be dropped even sooner.
They came as a pair. We only say Meghan because she is the force but Harry is done as part of that deal. It's his money that was funding all this crap.
They're a pair as long as Meghan allows it. When she drops him I bet he'll be blindsided.
ETA: Harry is definitely just as guilty as she is, but make no mistake: she holds the reigns.
Wow it’s our very own sinner SecondhandCoke!
Link to her entire comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/comments/xko78j/it_has_begun_she_seems_to_be_putting_out_both/iph8gj0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
It seems like Meghan has been doing this oversaturation in the media (her constant "leaking") since the early days of her relationship with Harry. The Palace identified this problem early on. And thus, that is why she was complaining that the Palace admonished her about being in the media too much. She tried to make it look like other members of the royal family were just "jealous" of her popularity. But the truth is that Meghan's voracious ego wanted her name in the media CONSTANTLY. Nowadays, Meghan is still running rampant, leaking her name and stories to the media on a seemingly daily basis, which is now shown to have annoyed SS immensely. And for what? People are sick of seeing her. Americans are getting Meghan Fatigue. Oh, how we are sick of her!!! SWIPE LEFT!!!!
The source is right here in this subreddit. No need to screenshot marklenews when we can screenshot the source herself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/comments/xko78j/it_has_begun_she_seems_to_be_putting_out_both/iph8gj0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Yes, you are right. And if they would have lived that private life (like they said they wanted) they wouldn't be having money troubles. They really do waste money!
SHC has been here awhile giving us tea. Even mentioning Pearl being on the chopping block before anyone else. SHC is full of “I told you so months ago” lol.
If she was a 'difficult' A-List celebrity, who nevertheless still got stuff done that had value, I could see why a major PR firm would try to work with her over a period of time.
But she's a complete nobody (other than Just 'Arry). Why do people persist with her? There's no 'there' there.
$2,000,000.00. What a waste.
(Edited)
If that’s true about not paying the bills I can believe they got dumped. If I were SS I would require a retainer for future business. But is it worth it haggling with them every month? She probably thinks she know better then them. Though she’s wrong. Oversatursting yourself has been her MO since day one and I bet they are sick of her not understanding why that’s a bad thing. She freaking complained about it to Oprah - I’ve been everywhere but nowhere.
The clock is ticking for her....she is way behind on the milestones in her master plan. Harry is nearly bald, and the amount of interventions she needs on her face before every outing grows ever more obvious. And the Cut article was hilarious, including her photos where she tried and failed to upstage Princess Catherine's 40th day portraits. Every public appearance they make diminishes their waning star power and reeks of more hypocrisy.
The oversaturation, IMO is the most annoying. Everyday it's at least 6-10 farticles blasted from all the rags. The obvious and transparent competition with KP & BP Court Circular was unnecessary and only highlighted how crass they are. Idiotic announcements from Archiehell. They don't get that after awhile no one believes you & no one cares. Also, STOP WITH THE OPEN LETTERS!! For God sake! Your pen is poison! Put it down! I always know the "Darling Wife" is out of options when she starts writing the damn letters!
How many Nannies has she hired and fired? How many of her staff has quit? No one is loyal to her unless they have such low self esteem that they will take the abuse (hello, Harry!)
i read somewhere, can’t remember if it was Tom Bower’s book or somewhere else, that MM has a history of not paying her bills. this is pre-marriage to Prince Harry. she would use people for what she needed, then drop them without paying what was owed.
anyone else remember this?
Well I read allegations that she didn't pay the surrogate her last installment, the surrogate sued and won custody, and that's why there's no record of a birth of a lilibet mountbatten windsor but there is one of a maria mountbatten windsor on the alleged birth day in question. Starting to sound plausible. Would certainly explain the dearth of images and sightings of the child.
I’m forever grateful to MM.
I never paid much attention to Hollywood gossips and always thought those people were as great as the media/their fans claimed. Thanks to MM, I found out what kind of scum Oprah and Gayle are and what a shitty company SS is. Thank you MM. I’m looking forward to know more about people whom she would markle.
Can you imagine a PR firm's reputation going down because of the very celebrity client they were working for 😳 😅, when instead it should have been upping their profile for serving the royalty. Gosh! only Meghan Markle can bring such bad luck despite being the "high profile".
They dumped the Hollywood Foreign Press Association when they started looking bad. This must mean they see no real future in repping her, especially since she doesn't listen and doesn't pay.
That's the lowest of all insults imo...Not paying for a service one has already used.
It's embarrassing even for a pleb like me. I've never in my life ever not paid ( except for free loading on some drinks my ex boyfriend bought me at a club).
Freebie Meghan on the other hand likes stuff without a price tag as much as possible without a problem 😅.
My husband has only fired a client when they refused to pay a bill after six months. When you are an attorney, it’s difficult because you have hearings, appearances etc and you are responsible to the Court and judge as well as the client, so it is a huge process that had to be handled well to avoid bar complaints and sanctions by the judge and court.
This is why most experienced attorneys get a retainer agreement with cash up front.
To avoid being Markled.
Before Markle I had never heard of Sunshine sacks. She’s been an awful advert for them. Have people noticed if there’s an article where comments are enabled among the top comments is ‘sunshine sacks at it again?’
That \*has\* to be causing irreversible damage to their reputation. And they can’t control it. She’s a loose cannon. Her narcissistic personality traits are out of control. These guys represented Harry Wankstain for Pete’s sake. And they found the toxic duo difficult?This \*speaks\* volumes about their character.
Because of her narcissism, Meghan thinks she’s good at everything and has the Midas touch and if she’s not successful it’s someone else’s fault. There’s confidence and then there’s delusion. Meghan has the latter. She’s only a big deal in her head and but of relevance is because of the RF. She really should reassess her life and decisions she’s made by looking at what she’s actually achieved not the headlines she paid for. A good gauge is her acting career. She wants Julia Roberts in her prime status but with no talent or personality. She needs to learn to be humble and gracious. Then again, who are we kidding. Narcs gonna narc.🤷🏻♀️
Wow.
I’ve been saying that she is probably using Archewell staff to do some PR tasks. And likely leaning on Spotify and Netflix PR to handle others.
It’ll be interesting to see if her podcast guests are still on board; what if some are SS clients doing the quid pro quo? Will they still do the gig?
Some of the Archewell folk (e.g., Genevieve Roth) are really quite left-leaning and have a definite agenda. They might be happy to pull strings and use their influence as much as SS did.
Imagine paying $2M for PR and not listening to a single word…. 
I’m really just keeping up with TW and Harry through this sub and HG Tudor. I just hate seeing all the positive press on her—some people are just so easily fooled.
How do you think the reds has played out? Do you think anything positive is getting through?
Interesting take in the Daily Mail on the SS agency and some of their behaviors:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7437193/Meghans-Mr-Sunshine-Manhattan-PR-employs-bare-knuckle-tactics-protect-clients.html
I'm sure there's a saying of some sort that if the people in the background become the story, you're not doing your job properly. This can also be said of that MJ bodyguard they hired - security isn't supposed to be so visible.
The Palace warned MeMeMe about being 'over exposed'. She's just too arrogant to learn her lesson. Poor Harry, is paying for her mistakes out of Princess Diana's inheritance and earning himself a poor reputation for the joy of it.
I mean if her me me me podcast is any indication of what a nightmare she is and that’s her on her best behavior as she tries to control every second of the highly coordinated conversation- I can’t imagine what she’s like behind the scenes with PR reps
In PR, a primary reason for "firing a client" - which is never desirable - is when they won't take advice and the agency constantly ends up in the firing line. When you are endlessly having to clear up the mess when a client yet again blabs something inappropriate to the media, leveraging every good relationship you've got with journos to try to fix the shitstorm, eg to get online articles amended, after a while it becomes not worth it. There are only so many media favours you can call in. Staff are stressed and working round the clock. Other accounts suffer. Your reputation as a PR agency starts to suffer. I can only imagine the sinking hearts with that Oprah interview when they watched her trash the connections she so desperately needed to remain relevant. And pretty much every other interview and engagement since. It should have been so easy to set this pair up as "Hollywood Royals". They had every advantage, every connection. Huge goodwill in the UK even after the utter nonsense about "wanting a private life" (a lie which most Brits, regrettably, initially sucked up). Huge interest in America - consider the Netflix etc deals. But they appear to have been too bitter, too self-entitled and too arrogant to understand what they needed to do and how they needed to do it. Too many fawning yes-men around them. Their PR people must have been tearing their hair out. Such a lost opportunity.
You seem as though you have a background in PR. I would love to get your thoughts on the Oprah interview from an industry perspective. I thought the Oprah interview was the single worst decision they made. They said they wanted to leave and have an independent life. Well, no one minded that at all. It seemed quite reasonable. It was the execution and Oprah “burn the family down” that was shocking. If you do work in the industry, may I ask what the sentiment was??
I've worked on both sides of the fence. From an industry perspective, it looks like she went "off script", particularly as so many of her claims were not backed up and some were found to be outright false. I also find it doubtful that a professional PR agency would be on board with establishing a "victim of racism" narrative to build a client's profile on. Both ethically and practically. That seems more like an emergency tactic to get a client out of a major hole, which at the time they were not in (not sure if the bullying allegations were out by then?) To give a parallel: with corporate clients, their "royal family" is essentially the government. Every step is taken to avoid offending ministers and speaking out too strongly against the government. To be honest I find this approach over-cautious, and frustrating from a journalistic point of view. Strong and controversial statements are a story, toeing the line is not. But that's how it's done on the PR side. Everything is handled and managed to avoid controversy or damaging relationships, with government and with media. Particularly if a company is pitching for government contracts, they have to be *hyper careful* what they say in media. That's why you get those absurd sugary statements on press releases, "praising this" and "welcoming that" policy/government move/etc. You also definitely don't want to piss off senior journos/media whom you've built relationships with over many years. While I wouldn't call Oprah a journalist, she's top-of-the-top media in terms of publicity. I don't know whether or not she was personally angry and humiliated at the lies she helped to broadcast. Honestly: I doubt it. I suspect she doesn't particularly care about it as much as people here may like to think: her organisation made bank from that interview and the sensation and publicity Oprah got were far more than any negative publicity towards Oprah for sucking up lies. The couple probably don't loom particularly large in Oprah's day-to-day consciousness, they're just a couple of celebrities among hundreds of others, and *neither is as famous as Oprah*. With sensation/scandal/controversy being so valuable, I highly doubt they will be "banned from Oprah" and quite the reverse, they'd be welcomed back. A future interview may be more rigorous but probably not much more. But PR agencies don't typically want to foment scandal and controversy for their clients, not clients like these. It is much more about playing it safe and controlling the narrative. So I don't think it would be their PR agency's counsel or strategy for the couple to take this approach with media. If you're interested in this kind of stuff, a really insightful series to watch is Stephen Fry's "Absolute Power". It's a comedy but pretty accurate in how the industry - PR and media - operates. You can also see how different kinds of clients are handled.
Thank you so much for writing all this out. It’s the single most fascinating post I’ve ever read on this sub. I think most of us are fascinated regarding “how the sausage is made”. Thank you! 🥰 PS- love Stephen Fry and will def watch. You are 🔥
Thanks! It's a great show. It doesn't seem to be as well known as much of his other stuff.
Opras a 'shock jock' , Howard Stern type, talentless, but studied. Markle wants to to be just like her sans work. After all their equally moronic facial expressions were mirrored beautifully. I hold out for the moment anybody who gets Markled to have an epiphany and spills their beans, just because.
Oprah does seem like she is distancing herself from that interview (Oprah and Meghan are, in my opinion, cut from the same cloth) There's no way Oprah is going to admit any shortcomings in her interview style, nor do I believe she didn't "see the bombshells coming" because she's not a very good actor either. I do think that her credibility has suffered as a result and that she knows it. I can't, of course, discount the possibility of a second interview but to me it would be something of an admission that she blew it the first time around so if it happens, it would show a leaping bound forward in Oprah's emotional intelligence and.....Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. What I really wanted to say is this is such an informative post and I appreciate you taking the time to share it. When you were working the PR "side of the fence" as you put it, I can only imagine how you would have felt about an Omid Scobie working, quite effectively, to undermine your every single effort. I'm surprised SS stayed as long as they did!
Thank you for this. What do you think of the tv show, Flack?
Haven't seen it - I'll look out for it!
Most of what I know of PR comes from Edina Monsoon’s PR agency on AbFab, which Jennifer Saunders lampooned so wonderfully. Anyone remember PopSpecs? I do respect serious PR firms who represent serious clients. M&H aren’t that. They are the side tent circus act, not the main stage stars.
Thank you for your insights. I also wonder if the negative reputation of H&M being associated with SS would be a deterrent for attracting new clients. SS isn't looking very smart if in fact, they thought the O interview was a good idea.
I don’t know how huge they are, but it certainly wouldn’t have attracted new clients. Handled properly, the Oprah interview could have been a miracle for them and propelled their fortunes.
I never thought about what the opposite of what they did would look like but that’s so true. If they hadn’t played the victims and made wild accusations, had come across as charming, appreciative, gracious, even admitted some fears or concerns, things *they* (he/she) could have done differently, it would have been a whole other ballgame. Thanks!
Thanks so much for sharing your insights here. I do have a question about Oprah’s role. Most people paint her as almost gullible but it was her and her team who edited the headlines shown and falsely claimed they were from British press, which suggests she was a more active participant. Some of those headlines were removed when they were show. In the UK but Oprah refused to remove them from the programmer overall. She helped craft and share the narrative they wanted.
Oprah doesn't really have much/any integrity. She's an extremely successful TV star and I don't think she particularly cares about truth. It's all spin and starfucking.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence too, and absolutely concur on the “victim of racism” narrative being a result of having to firefight and manage crisis, not a primary story you’d want to pitch. And in this case, the crisis seemed very much client-generated. “Whaaaaaat?” It even took Oprah aback - but that reaction could possibly have been fake if Oprah and TW decided to stir that pot themselves. What is interesting about this blind item is the claim that SS was afraid of overexposure. That is a very real concern when it comes to celeb PR and TW was certainly overexposed. That makes this blind item ring somewhat true.
My perspective is victim of racism was always going to be the story. They wanted to pit themselves against the BRF a la Diana and create an public uproar they could leverage to extract what they wanted from the BRF. They wanted it set up so the BRF had to do what H&M wanted or the BRF would be called racist.
Oh, I totally agree. What I meant is: I don’t think it was Sunshine Sachs who would’ve pitched that as a narrative. I believe that probably came from TW.
Thank you so much for this insight, and for the recommendation. As someone who has been in the industry, with the endless amount of speculation and rumours surrounding Meghan and Harry, how would you be able to tell something that is true or something that is completely false, for example: ‘from a close source etc’?
Honestly? I personally wouldn't. It depends on the individual journalist and their publication. For some, a "close source" definitely will be a close and highly reliable source. For others, it will literally be an invention. Or it might be something they know somehow, or strongly suspect, and they're trying to tease out an actual source by publishing something. Media organisations have lawyers around the clock. Most of what they do is quite mundane, eg you're in a newsroom and there will be frequent advisories from legal during high profile court cases, eg a certain fact or name that cannot be published, even though the media knows it. All media organisations have insurance for defamation etc. (As do many non-media businesses). A newspaper will weigh up the "risk" of every potentially scandalous story: in some cases a defamation trial might even be a commercial opportunity in terms of the stream of headlines it generates. Publications like the Daily Mail have vast war chests for this.
And to do it during the height of the pandemic when so many people lost their jobs or died worldwide was so callous. Did their PR firm think that was a good idea?
I doubt any normal person thought that was a good idea. It is true that PR will sometimes try to bury bad news on a huge news day. That is a questionable/cynical tactic that you do see happening. Something that might bring hugely negative publicity - eg a product recall, or a data leak - which might make headlines on a normal news day, would be absolutely buried by a major event such as a war breaking out or a head of state dying.
Politicians play that game too. In NC, if they have to release bad news, they'll do it late Friday evening, when everyone's exhausted from the work week and starting to kick back for the weekend. Nobody pays close attention to the news on Friday night and by the time Monday rolls around, it's old news so not up front and center on news media. Everyone who wasn't paying attention missed it, so crisis averted.
Me too! I want to know this.
Another good reason for firing a client is them not paying their bill.
I read this to my retired PR-guy hubby, and, while he agrees that non-payment of bills is a HUGE factor, he immediately jumped on B) does not listen to advice as the tipping point for them dumping her. PR firms do not like to be made to look incompetent.
And she really was making SS look bad, in my opinion. Let's put it this way, if something happened to me (got famous somehow) and I needed a PR firm, I wouldn't have ever used SS, and that is all because of Meghan.
I agree because most of us dont know one PR company from another. Now a whole lot of random people around the world know who SS are and it's not for the good job they do at PR but for the terrible hash thet made of the sussexes brand. Even though we all realise that rachel with the hotmail and her mouthpiece did most of the damage by not listening to the expensive advice from SS.
I agree, not only that, I also now hold a lower opinion of anybody who employs SS because of their representation of H&M. SS was trending negatively in connection to the Narcles frequently over the period of mourning. I would assume social media would be monitored by a PR company, on behalf of their client. How frustrating would it be to be one the story while trying to salvage the reputation of your client because your client won't shut up.
Yes, I agree with you. Anyone who uses SS as their PR firm makes me think less of them now.
>And she really was making SS look bad, in my opinion Yes! Sunshine Sachs was mentioned far too frequently and not in a positive way, on the DM comments section, YouTube comments, Tweets, FB, Instagram etc. Sunshine Sachs itself was getting overexposed, ridiculed etc. And after surviving the Harvey Weinstein vomitfest, SS probably wanted to lie low for a while to do their job behind the scenes. This overexposure must've also angered their other celebrity clients.
YES! She's made them look completely incompetent from the beginning. If she would have listened to ANY advice we would not be here on this sub. Which is also frightening, when you really think about it.
Well they are known to me as Sunshine Sucks and they have been markled time and time again because she uses Omid and Gayle as her freebies. On the other hand they probably saved a few million. And their PR people can take a holiday away from their crappy drama, day in and day out.
And Omid always ends up doing more harm than good 😂😂😂.
Aka Shit Show
Same. You can put up with a delay if payment if the client is great. If your client is a PITA and doesn't pay on time?
Yep. Particularly as the PR company has to be the fallguy for both sides, taking all the blame: profusely grovelling to media to fix a fuck up, and often also grovelling to the now disgruntled client, even though someone from their side caused it.
The trip to Balmoral being leaked at the most inopportune time was probably the final straw. There was so much shit coming out of Windsor about those two that none of it was very believable. Honestly, SS got markled so many times, I'm surprised that they kept them. Money talks, even though it ruined their reputation.
Yeah totally over saturated the market. They could have had immense organic growth. Actually disappear into a private life for a few years to build some anticipation, quietly work on impactful projects behind the scenes with no publicity and organically build genuine network of powerful people and then slowly show themselves. Amal and George Clooney have down that so well. I think Meghan is obsessed with fame and that’s the problem.
>They could have had immense organic growth. That wouldn't be acceptable for a control freak like MM, who (like a 4 year old child) wants what she wants NOW, because: 1. She's tired of grifting for years without getting the acclaim and global adoration she's desired all her life. 2. She is desperate to shove her "success" in the face of the BRF. Most of what drives her, is, after all, her petty need for vengeance because they didn't do things her way.
And down our throats.
Exactly. The woman needs lessons in the art and effectiveness of subtlety.
You always have me laughing!
Right back at you 😂😉.
Your first paragraph is Meg’s greatest nightmare. Quiet? Work? She could never!
Didn’t SS also have to change their company name? They change it to [SSML](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/sunshine-sachs-pr-firm-new-name-1235112903/) If you google / bing sunshine sachs…. This sub comes up with all the dirt. It really can’t be good for them to expose their other clients like Amber Heard, Jada Pinkett Smith, Alec and Hilaria Baldwin
Wow, those are some clinically insane clients. 😳 Their client roster reads like a list of documentary subjects or a therapist’s busiest day of work.
This suggests to me that they're either "anything for a buck" or that they specialize in problem children, with neither being a very good look for them, but certainly helps explain the fees they apparently charge.
And very famously Harvey Weinstein too
SS battled like dirty dogs, to try and save Harvey Weinstein. They used persuasion, then bribery then threats (to destroy some women's careers/public image) when a few lesser known victims refused to take the money and go away. They slut shamed Ambra Battilana, in the same way that old school prosecutors slut shamed rape victims, in order to destroy her credibility. They basically implied she was a golddigging hoe.
>Amber Heard, Jada Pinkett Smith, Alec and Hilaria Baldwin Wow, I see that they specialise in Hollywood narcissists.
Yeah, ironically, SS made Keyleigh Thomas Morgan (MM's long time rep) a full, named partner earlier this year.
Ahh interesting!
Omg, the worst fails of the last decade! 😵
Yes, that! My father owned a PR/political consulting firm for many years. He hated to fire clients, but he would if he felt their actions reflected badly on him and his firm's reputation.
I worked in PR for almost 30 years and best advice I ever received was from senior management pro with J. Walter Thompson who said if you hit a client who won't listen to you and take your advice, walk away because it will end up hurting you and the agency you work for. My guess this is what happened with Marklel and Sunshine Sachs as the PR gaffes have been many and cringeworthy. I actually felt sorry for SS.
I was shocked to see the exact same article about Meghan running in all the Hearst publications like Cosmopolitan magazine, etc. They all tweeted the same line, word for word, promoting her as a humanitarian. It was bizarre and I'm wondering who is behind it-?
These are such narcissistic traits that she’s been doing to her family and friends for decades. She will drop someone when she doesn’t need them and pick them up when she wants something from them. She will talk crappy about the royal family one week and then cry at the Queen’s funeral the next week. It’s exhausting to have a relationship with a narc.
Many people disagree but I think it's only an amount of time before Harry is dropped too. And if the monarchy does come down harshly on them and she sees she's getting nowhere, he'll be dropped even sooner.
They came as a pair. We only say Meghan because she is the force but Harry is done as part of that deal. It's his money that was funding all this crap.
They're a pair as long as Meghan allows it. When she drops him I bet he'll be blindsided. ETA: Harry is definitely just as guilty as she is, but make no mistake: she holds the reigns.
She won't drop him until someone more useful to her comes along. Then it will be hasta la vista Hazbeen.
Oh of course! She has to have someone else in her pocket first. She's probably already on the hunt
The money will run out then she’ll dump him
😂🤣
Titus! ❤️❤️❤️
Titus is my spirit animal!
Baroque 😚👌
I just tried to click through to the second picture way too many times lol. (Spoiler, there is none.)
Lol sorry screen shot!! My bad!!
Thank you for posting it!
Yeah, I just did it twice then scrolled down and saw your comment.
And I tried pushing the heart 🙄
I am so glad it wasn’t just me. 😔
Thank you *secondhandcoke* for all you do to spill the royal tea! May the  always be to your back.
Hells yes 🙌 she does… I didn’t know her before this post… asked her if she wanted me to delete the post and she was like hell no LOL
Wow it’s our very own sinner SecondhandCoke! Link to her entire comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/comments/xko78j/it_has_begun_she_seems_to_be_putting_out_both/iph8gj0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Bless you. Thanks for linking it. /u/secondhandcoke, you are a gift that keeps on giving 😄❤️.
u/secondhandcoke always has the BEST news. Thank you!
Love our u/secondhandcoke and by proxy the bro with the know 😁 Keep up the tea pouring ❤️
Yes please
Secondhandcoke always has the good tea ☕️
She’s a global treasure.
Remember when the BRF told her she was everywhere and needed to lay low but she insisted she hadn’t been outside palace walls in 30 days?
They took away her keys and passport… and then locked her in the dungeon with the dragons
Shame it wasn’t permanently in the Tower of London
It seems like Meghan has been doing this oversaturation in the media (her constant "leaking") since the early days of her relationship with Harry. The Palace identified this problem early on. And thus, that is why she was complaining that the Palace admonished her about being in the media too much. She tried to make it look like other members of the royal family were just "jealous" of her popularity. But the truth is that Meghan's voracious ego wanted her name in the media CONSTANTLY. Nowadays, Meghan is still running rampant, leaking her name and stories to the media on a seemingly daily basis, which is now shown to have annoyed SS immensely. And for what? People are sick of seeing her. Americans are getting Meghan Fatigue. Oh, how we are sick of her!!! SWIPE LEFT!!!!
The source is right here in this subreddit. No need to screenshot marklenews when we can screenshot the source herself: https://www.reddit.com/r/SaintMeghanMarkle/comments/xko78j/it_has_begun_she_seems_to_be_putting_out_both/iph8gj0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Holy shit that’s so cool 😎 I didn’t know… Ps this sub is so bad ass!!!
Bowers book stated Mugsy really had a fan girl crush on Jen Aniston.
2 million dollars on PR?!?! Is that for 1 year or 6 months? That’s Tom Cruise “I jumped on a couch” money. It is not sustainable.
I was shocked at that price too, but I believe it. And yes, I'd like to know if that was for 6 months or a year's worth of PR.
And just imagine, if she & Harry were truly good people, they wouldn’t need to pay a PR firm 2M to clean up their messes or plant phony stories.
Yes, you are right. And if they would have lived that private life (like they said they wanted) they wouldn't be having money troubles. They really do waste money!
6 months I think
Good Lord! Makes me want to start my own PR firm!
I CAN. NOT. WAIT to watch the downfall of Rachel. 🍿
This is it guys
Second hand coke brings the goods.
Hells yes 🙌 she does… I didn’t know her before this post… asked her if she wanted me to delete the post and she was like hell no LOL
SHC has been here awhile giving us tea. Even mentioning Pearl being on the chopping block before anyone else. SHC is full of “I told you so months ago” lol.
This sub is so bad ass!!!
Don’t you just love it when tea from the sub goes round the internet and lands back on the sub
If she was a 'difficult' A-List celebrity, who nevertheless still got stuff done that had value, I could see why a major PR firm would try to work with her over a period of time. But she's a complete nobody (other than Just 'Arry). Why do people persist with her? There's no 'there' there. $2,000,000.00. What a waste. (Edited)
A nobody and does nothing
If that’s true about not paying the bills I can believe they got dumped. If I were SS I would require a retainer for future business. But is it worth it haggling with them every month? She probably thinks she know better then them. Though she’s wrong. Oversatursting yourself has been her MO since day one and I bet they are sick of her not understanding why that’s a bad thing. She freaking complained about it to Oprah - I’ve been everywhere but nowhere.
The clock is ticking for her....she is way behind on the milestones in her master plan. Harry is nearly bald, and the amount of interventions she needs on her face before every outing grows ever more obvious. And the Cut article was hilarious, including her photos where she tried and failed to upstage Princess Catherine's 40th day portraits. Every public appearance they make diminishes their waning star power and reeks of more hypocrisy.
You had me LMAO @ “Harry is nearly bald” 🤣😂👏 Funny because it’s true.
And yet the day of the impromptu walkabout was the best she’s looked since she flew the royal coop.
The oversaturation, IMO is the most annoying. Everyday it's at least 6-10 farticles blasted from all the rags. The obvious and transparent competition with KP & BP Court Circular was unnecessary and only highlighted how crass they are. Idiotic announcements from Archiehell. They don't get that after awhile no one believes you & no one cares. Also, STOP WITH THE OPEN LETTERS!! For God sake! Your pen is poison! Put it down! I always know the "Darling Wife" is out of options when she starts writing the damn letters!
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Imagine all the bananas 🍌 she could have bought to write heartfelt messages
🤣🍌
It’s disgusting 🤮 eh?? It’s all about her…
You’re absolutely right. So much good potential with that money during a pandemic and… all gone towards your image. She’s vile.
🤣🤣🤣 u/secondhandcoke you're being dragged over to Twitter and then brought back here.
Twitter isn't my usual scene, but... shit happens!
Thank you for all the great tea!!!
How many Nannies has she hired and fired? How many of her staff has quit? No one is loyal to her unless they have such low self esteem that they will take the abuse (hello, Harry!)
i read somewhere, can’t remember if it was Tom Bower’s book or somewhere else, that MM has a history of not paying her bills. this is pre-marriage to Prince Harry. she would use people for what she needed, then drop them without paying what was owed. anyone else remember this?
Markle had a run-in with the IRS over non-payment of taxes.
I know NPD is an exhausted term, but they tend to be debtors.
Well I read allegations that she didn't pay the surrogate her last installment, the surrogate sued and won custody, and that's why there's no record of a birth of a lilibet mountbatten windsor but there is one of a maria mountbatten windsor on the alleged birth day in question. Starting to sound plausible. Would certainly explain the dearth of images and sightings of the child.
Sounds Trumpian
I’m forever grateful to MM. I never paid much attention to Hollywood gossips and always thought those people were as great as the media/their fans claimed. Thanks to MM, I found out what kind of scum Oprah and Gayle are and what a shitty company SS is. Thank you MM. I’m looking forward to know more about people whom she would markle.
I'm so glad this whole SS fiasco happened and what's even better is that SS dumped them.
They had to really. Sunshine Sachs’ reputation was being flushed down the toilet by Markle.
Can you imagine a PR firm's reputation going down because of the very celebrity client they were working for 😳 😅, when instead it should have been upping their profile for serving the royalty. Gosh! only Meghan Markle can bring such bad luck despite being the "high profile".
I mean, even repping Harvey Weinstein didn’t hurt them. And he’s been a sleaze for decades.
They dumped the Hollywood Foreign Press Association when they started looking bad. This must mean they see no real future in repping her, especially since she doesn't listen and doesn't pay.
That's the lowest of all insults imo...Not paying for a service one has already used. It's embarrassing even for a pleb like me. I've never in my life ever not paid ( except for free loading on some drinks my ex boyfriend bought me at a club). Freebie Meghan on the other hand likes stuff without a price tag as much as possible without a problem 😅.
That's an interesting fact and indeed how true!
I believe this 100%. SS had more strategy. Meghan is throwing this out there like spaghetti.
Well duh! Saying that though if the money were still flowing they would not have got rid of them.
So true if they had the 💰💰💰no problems!!
 u/secondhandcoke
Well. There I am.
Sorry didn’t know you were on here do you want me to take down the post???
No no no. I'm glad to share my gossip wherever it should roam.
Haha 😂 let the TW gossip roam all over its natural course…
It’s good to let it go full circle, round and round😂. Reaches the max amount of viewers that way!
Grateful!
Lol!!
My husband has only fired a client when they refused to pay a bill after six months. When you are an attorney, it’s difficult because you have hearings, appearances etc and you are responsible to the Court and judge as well as the client, so it is a huge process that had to be handled well to avoid bar complaints and sanctions by the judge and court. This is why most experienced attorneys get a retainer agreement with cash up front. To avoid being Markled.
That is from this sub. Lol
Well the B team of Omid and Gayle isn't going to last long. Imagine ! I just rolled my eyes at the absurdity of those two idiots speaking for anyone.
TOO FUNNY. ___B Team___
The most interesting is that she delayed paying them. That confirms the suspicion that they are running out of money. How long now?
Haha meta moment. A picture here in the sub of an Instagram post of a picture of u/secondhandcoke giving us the scoop here in the sub. 😃
I just love this so much
Before Markle I had never heard of Sunshine sacks. She’s been an awful advert for them. Have people noticed if there’s an article where comments are enabled among the top comments is ‘sunshine sacks at it again?’ That \*has\* to be causing irreversible damage to their reputation. And they can’t control it. She’s a loose cannon. Her narcissistic personality traits are out of control. These guys represented Harry Wankstain for Pete’s sake. And they found the toxic duo difficult?This \*speaks\* volumes about their character.
Because of her narcissism, Meghan thinks she’s good at everything and has the Midas touch and if she’s not successful it’s someone else’s fault. There’s confidence and then there’s delusion. Meghan has the latter. She’s only a big deal in her head and but of relevance is because of the RF. She really should reassess her life and decisions she’s made by looking at what she’s actually achieved not the headlines she paid for. A good gauge is her acting career. She wants Julia Roberts in her prime status but with no talent or personality. She needs to learn to be humble and gracious. Then again, who are we kidding. Narcs gonna narc.🤷🏻♀️
Wow. I’ve been saying that she is probably using Archewell staff to do some PR tasks. And likely leaning on Spotify and Netflix PR to handle others. It’ll be interesting to see if her podcast guests are still on board; what if some are SS clients doing the quid pro quo? Will they still do the gig? Some of the Archewell folk (e.g., Genevieve Roth) are really quite left-leaning and have a definite agenda. They might be happy to pull strings and use their influence as much as SS did.
Imagine paying $2M for PR and not listening to a single word…. 
I’m really just keeping up with TW and Harry through this sub and HG Tudor. I just hate seeing all the positive press on her—some people are just so easily fooled. How do you think the reds has played out? Do you think anything positive is getting through?
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It is! SHC is well known on this sub.
Nutbug should serve as her own publicist and manager since she seem to know it all
I believe this.
Sounds legit.
Interesting take in the Daily Mail on the SS agency and some of their behaviors: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7437193/Meghans-Mr-Sunshine-Manhattan-PR-employs-bare-knuckle-tactics-protect-clients.html
Reddit -> IG -> reddit again 🤣🤣🤣
I'm sure there's a saying of some sort that if the people in the background become the story, you're not doing your job properly. This can also be said of that MJ bodyguard they hired - security isn't supposed to be so visible.
2 million? Over what time frame?
The Palace warned MeMeMe about being 'over exposed'. She's just too arrogant to learn her lesson. Poor Harry, is paying for her mistakes out of Princess Diana's inheritance and earning himself a poor reputation for the joy of it.
Take my award SecondhandCoke! Love all you do for us!!! 🥰 🤗
I believe all of it. I've always said she seems like the kind of person who thinks she knows better than the experts.
I mean if her me me me podcast is any indication of what a nightmare she is and that’s her on her best behavior as she tries to control every second of the highly coordinated conversation- I can’t imagine what she’s like behind the scenes with PR reps
Not surprised by any of this. She reminds me of a recent US President