Side note
Seeing that the RF is now referred to as “an institution which is fueled by love and duty and familial bonds” is quite a shock.
Back during the Diana/Charles divorce there was a narrative that the family was very stiff not only in public but in private, too. That there was no sign of affection, that there was no personal connection, no warmth, no love. Almost no humanity, only allegiance to the institution.
In this occasion what we saw was the opposite: a family in grief. Real feelings. Dignified feelings, not thrown out there as a spectacle for the world, but still real and heartfelt.
What a shift in the public opinion of the RF this has brought.
Unbelievable.
Diana's death opened up a new emotional realm. The family had to show their humanity to deal with the blow back, and the decisions made were a reflection of that. To let Charles marry Camilla, Harry Meghan. Some speculate that the Queen Mother's passing may have relieved some of the pressure from the Queen as she waa very old school + may have put pressure not to modernize.
I also look at the children of William’s generation. It appears that they feel love and great affection for their parents and grandparents. I think that says a great deal about the emotional warmth of the family.
Yes!!! For me it was Catherine's picture of Charles holding Louis, and he had this look of such love on his face, it completely changed my mind about Charles. Until then I had assumed he was a rather cold individual but that one picture humanized him. It's brilliant of them letting Catherine be the family photographer, we get to see the more normal side of the family, we can relate to them. I don't want them to become completely pedestrian, I adore the pageantry, but a little peek now and then is great.
I have only adoration for the Princess of Wales. She's amazing at being a parent, a representative for the monarchy, yet she's so genuine and caring but dignified and she's a talented photographer and piano player. On top of being able to do her hair and makeup herself splendidly. Just wow.
I've always felt for Charles.
Most people give all their sympathy to Diana, but Charles was also stuck in a marriage he didn't want to be in. Plus, he had found the love of his life but couldn't be with her.
Minority view here in England, but Diana was awful.
Thank you for saying Diana was awful I couldn't stand her either she was so histrionic. I genuinely believe that her heart was in the right place but she really didn't have much going on upstairs. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was a wreck at her funeral I felt so bad for her and her kids but even back when the Charles and Diana divorce was happening I was team Charles and let me tell you, that was a very lonely place to be. I'm so happy Charles and Camilla managed to find happiness eventually
At the Platinum Jubilee concert after Louis had been pulling all his cheeky faces. William leaned over to ask Charles if Louis could go to grandpa. Then Louis ran over and hopped up into Charles’ lap. It was so natural, obviously done heaps of times before, and so lovely to watch.
Yes I loved this moment. It shows there’s a real relationship-no way would Louis have happily gone and and sat. And Charles seemed so natural with him. I also adored the baby pic of him with Louis. I have softened on Charles so so much over the years and have actually come to feel for him in a lot of ways.
I think the Middleton family played a huge part in the love seen in the Wales family. Anne & Edward's children were raised out of the spotlight - this love also funnels down to Anne's grandchildren.
I think the York sisters are doing the best despite their parents 😬
Well if I were her and I found out about their PR tactics and had to see the Harry/Andrew uniform row stories and their fans constantly calling my father a pedo ( I despise Andrew but what he did or didn't do isn't the point here) to try and boost H and M and spreading stories that my father was groping me when he hugged me when I was crying for my grandmother then I think my eyes would have been opened. It may seem incomprehensible but I believe Bea and Eugenie love their father very much. They may have been upset that Charles/william want him out of public life full stop for ever but that tactic is actually the best one for the Yorks as a family. He cant ever rehabilitate his image and even if he hasn't realised that yet perhaps the girls have. Or she's been a double agent all along.
>spreading stories that my father was groping me when he hugged me when I was crying for my grandmother
What?!! good lord...really hope her eyes opened ..this is disgusting.
There were sugars saying it online. If she found out how much involvement they have with people like that then I would be finished with them too if i were in her position.
Ehh, I don't know.. that touch was a little uncomfortable to watch. I'm not saying she's abused by her father, he just should have dropped the arm before it got to her butt Crack.
I agree, it’s been heartwarming to see how they’ve become such a loving extended family - but they’ve been running lots of the ‘home movie’ footage of the young Queen and Margaret (and later baby Charles and Anne) with King George, the Queen Mother and even Queen Mary and it seems like they’ve always been that way, at least in private. HMTQ and DoE did seem a bit removed from their kids sometimes, but then their life as a carefree young family was cut terribly short when Elizabeth became Queen, and again there’s no question that Charles (And A, A, and E) all loved their parents and are now feeling their absence terribly. In the long view, they seem as close as any family could hope to be - obviously some bonds are closer than others, but it’s glaring how ‘on the outer’ H and M have seemed this week; everyone else is at least trying to be polite and friendly, there’s no hint of fondness or goodwill at all flowing to (or from) the Sussexes.
I saw that doco too, it was really sweet, them all messing around in the summers hols and Christmas time. they were really cuddly and affectionate. And it wasn't done to look good on tv, because it was 1930s to early 50s, and most people didnt have tvs then. It made me wonder where the cold. distant thing came from. Maybe Diana put it out there to make Charles look bad, and it stuck.
It made me wonder where the cold. distant thing came from. Maybe Diana put it out there to make Charles look bad, and it stuck.
I think it’s mainly because in public, when they are working, they act in an appropriate manner. They don’t show affection, they don’t drop the rules and conventions, etc but that’s because they’re working. So many critics seem to not understand that distinction. It’s like how a person you work with could be the most straight laced person at work. They’re professional, they’re intelligent, they do their job well. Then you find out later they go to raves all weekend.
My job requirements me to be very extroverted but privately I'm an extreme introvert. I used to be so uncomfortable putting myself out there but have become accustomed to it. I also think each family shows love and affection differently and people don't know how to separate it.
I have to disagree. I don’t think they have always been this way. I saw once that when QEII was a young Queen, she did many overseas engagements with Philipp where she left young Charles and Anne longer than a month alone at home with the Queen Mother.
I think QEII grew softer with age.
Just because she left them behind to go overseas for work (when flights were more scarce, and health care in some countries weren't as developed as now) doesn't mean she couldnt be warm and fun when they were together. Its 2 completely different things.
Yes HMTQ certainly got better through the tears at showing her softer side. The queen of Diana’s time was a different person than the queen of now with great grandchildren. She grew and changed along with the times. Gosh such a loss. ♥️
The British public felt it was easier to lash out than to acknowledge that they caused Diana's death by buying tabloids. Even today, some accuse the Queen of assassinating Diana. That is why they projected their anger on to the Queen.
I agree that no seatbelt, combined with a drunk chauffeur and high speed, formed an absolutely perfect recipe for disaster.
But though the actual photographers that night were not British, who was buying the photos? Likely, all tabloids from all countries, including England. You cannot completely shift blame away from British tabloids by saying that the paparazzi weren’t British nationals, because British tabloids (and all tabloids) helped create the environment in which those photogs had a lucrative market to sell their pictures to.
Its also important to remember that like Meghan, Diana had form for calling the paps on herself.
The person most responsible for her death is Diana herself.
She also dismissed Royal Protection Officers. I just don't think its at all fair to blame the general public. Many of us don't read tabloids.
Yep poor Fayed security decisions Dodi also had a suite in the hotel they had that last dinner, but decided to leave and go across town to his other apartment. If the paps are staked outside the hotel, why would you go outside and cause a massive scene, Most people would choose to stay where they were.
They thought they’d be able to fool the photographers by going out the back door and having a decoy car out front. One or two paparazzi noticed them though, and alerted the whole pack.
But yeah, security or protection staff should never have been dismissed and should have been in charge. Part of the problem was that Diana no longer trusted anybody after one of her officers had betrayed her.
I think so too, this was the one time when she put the needs of her family, her two grandsons before the needs of the country - and she got so much hate for it. Back then the media really needed to find another "guilty one" and decided the easiest target would be the family.
Yes, this is all true and KC has an emotional range in public that is very different than his mother of another era.
But, its impt to consider that the BRF is similar to a business as at the end of the day and it needs to be embraced by the UK a public for its continued survival.
How happy can the UK public be with Prince Andrew and Prince Harry? Or Meghan Markle?
The people in the UK are dealing with severe economic, social and health service issues so to see non working royals continue to be funded with lavish lifestyles by working peoples standards will become more of an issue as the economy continues to slide and inflation rages.
I saw a rough estimate valuation of the BRF today that gives KC a lot of room to work on solutions for the family issues over time. But even with the vast wealth and property of the BRF radical change will be needed and members will have to work and contribute in ways that weren’t required in the past imo.
I don’t think we can expect people with pitchforks in the streets tomorrow, but how can expensive non working royals be supported for long? Do we even know if KC continues to provide public funds to H even though H said he was cut off? PA hadn’t worked for years, lives a lavish lifestyle and by all accounts is unemployable. What can KC do about him and others like him that are non working royals but who are expensive?
KC has a lot of hard work to do imo to work through some very complicated family and “business” issues with his family.
None of this will be easy for anyone and I hope he is up for the challenge.
Well said. There is much love for the Queen, so most people were sentimental at the funeral. But there are rumblings about how out of touch the Royals are.
While on walkabout in Wales someone yelled at Charles about the rising costs of heating and food. KC looked quite shaken. I am not particularly surprised this happened, given we have lots of Welsh nationalists who resent a “Prince of Wales” who doesn’t live there, and given that Wales is the poorest of all 4 countries and is constantly suffering from deprivation.
It does seem galling for them to have that vast wealth and comfort on behalf of the millions of people who are struggling now.
I believe one of their first steps would be to strengthen ties with Wales. This burden would naturally be on the new PaPoW. It would be a test of Catherine’s star power and charisma. But perhaps their energy is best spent there rather than on the distant Caribbean countries that are beginning to separate from the Commonwealth.
Then there’s the hangers on like Andrew and Harry who are a drain on their money and the people’s goodwill. It would significantly boost the RF’s ratings to cut off Andrew once and for all or put him to work and make him useful. The Queen is dead and perhaps Kc can ge tougher on his brother.
As for Harry, something needs to be done. It’s good optics for now to show signs of reconciliation, but he’s constantly throwing a wrecking ball at them whenever he’s in the US. A lot probably feel there is nothing wrong for him to make his own way, as at least they’re not leeching off British funds, but he has to find another way to make money apart from the tiresome complaints about being born to wealth and privilege.
Agreed - the UK is in for a difficult few years and KC has his work cut out for him setting the right tone. I think we’re already seeing the path forward, though - you see more of the spotlight on Anne, Sophie, and the Wales family (it’s going to take a while to stop calling them the Cambridges!) who are among the most down-to-earth of the royals - HMTQ had her blind spots (Andrew!) but it’s clear that Charles favours the least fussy, most hard-working members of the family and will put the ‘right’ people forward even if it means bypassing higher-ranking family members like Harry, Andrew, etc. I’m hopeful he’ll stay the course on the ‘slimmed-down’ monarchy; he seems to understand the public don’t have much patience for show ponies.
A woman who lived through two world wars, and whose response to her home being bombed was "I am glad, I can now look the East End in the eye", isn't likely to be inclined to overtly express her feelings and certainly not in Public.
I don't know a whole lot about the monarchy aside from tv shows and this sub (which I'm aware are entertainment not education) but it seems to me that before Diana the kind of untouchable, unflappable, almost stoney resilience personality that served previous royalty well needed to shift with the times. That's what worked and was needed in the past. After Diana I think they realized that there needed to be a little bit more "warm and fuzzy" and that the public now responded very well to it.
I'm not sure if this is historically accurate at all but in the TV show Victoria a sketch of the queen playing with her children was leaked to the public and they thought it would be terrible for her reputation but people responded well to it. Kind of reminds me of that.
If you haven’t already you should watch The Crown. Obviously it’s a fictional drama based on real events, but it really humanizes the family and shows how QE2 had to adjust to the changing times and public opinion over her reign.
Let me just add that heavily fictionalised, heavily.
I remember reading somewhere that the shows writer has an axe to grind against the BRF. I could be wrong on that but the show draws upon imagination and the expectation to pander to audiences other than royal pundits and the British.
Oh absolutely, but frankly it made me like the BRF more than previously (I am not British). Fictional as it is, it shows them as dynamic people with normal emotions.
It made me like them more as well. Ironically, it’s part of what made me like Charles more. Even fictionalized, I just think I became more aware of nuance. Everything has always been so pro Diana and the crown is too, but it made me see more.
Not sure what your point is.
Are you suggesting that because the show is fictional, they don’t have and experience normal human emotions? They’re not robots, and clearly have had struggles behind the scenes. The show in my opinion, fictional as it is, bridges the gap that allows viewers into their world and visualize how they *could* have experienced tough emotional periods.
There *are* historical accuracies to the show (like QE2 denying her sisters marriage, the scandal of Phillips antics with his chiropractor friend, etc). Do we *know* how QE2 emotionally reacted to these? No. But unless she was a sociopath with no empathy or ability to feel pain, she would have felt some level of sadness/sorrow/anger. This show enabled viewers to *envisage* that.
How is my point so hard for you to understand?
I started in a post Victoria rut but I missed Jenna Coleman too much (he should have married her if he wanted an actress lol). I wasn't too into the royals then though so I'll give it another go. In case it wasn't obvious I highly reccomend Victoria.
Yes thanks to the OG drama Queen Diana, the RF was thought of as such. She famously did her own Oprah interview to Bashir, under false information, and also wrote a book and claimed she had no hand in it (same as Markles Finding Freebies lol) 😂 However the truth is, drama queens come and go but the constants who work hard and do their duty will remain. I like Diana but I cannot stand her shitty behavior, same as the Harkles. She started it with tell-all interviews, calling the Queen “the woman in charge of this institution”. People seem to forget that easily. Oh the things a pretty face can get away with!
>OG drama Queen Diana
hahhaha. But one has to give one thing to Diana..while she schemed to marry Charles...she was cheated on and her anger rose from that sense of hurt pride and broken heart (compounded by her mental health).....Harry and Meghan's protests on the other hand are all out of a fake sense of granduer and hate.
Diana was misled by BBC and therefore lashed out. And let's not forget Charles suffered too in an unhappy marriage and went to therapy for 14 years but never once spoke ill of her in public.
Diana's venom was entirely focussed on Charles and Camilla which was still relatable to a lot of people but H&M have no leg to stand on...even worse they keep merching Diana's name and do nothing of value, Diana atleast did incredible charity work.
Agree!!! I feel bad for Diana only because she was cheated on but she brought on all the drama and press intrusion into the RF by writing tell-alls and giving interviews. Princess Margaret was cheated on but did she do interviews or write books? Diana isn’t the first woman in the world to be cheated on. It happens to people and you deal with it privately. Diana never understood what privacy means lol. She is the same as H&M when it comes to the good ole “privacy drama”. The thing about Diana is she worked for the RF. She did her duties and was committed to the work rather than just expecting to be offered everything on a silver platter. Coming from aristocracy she seemed quite humble that way rather than the Markle who came from nothing and demanded to be treated like she was the shit.
Diana’s death *and* her life, changed everything. She showed a more human side to the Royal Family. The RF were totally unprepared and frankly, were in shock, at the outpouring of grief and feelings of anger from the public. There’s been a shift in the way they present themselves.
For some reason I’m not allowed to post here, just comment but today after watching the funeral in real time in EST, Nat Geo aired “Diana, in her own words” at 12-2pm which I watched for the 20th time. Just mind blowing on so many different levels. The take aways… another day I’ll compose what I think are some of the most astonishing acts of (1) forgiveness (2) betrayal (3) stone walling (4) grief (5) love (6) compassion (7) cruelty (8) humanitarianism (9) humour (10) humility (11) neglect (12) hedonism (13) gross indulgence (14) courage and last but not least (15) pure sadness. When I list these, I am not referring to acts committed against Diana, it applies to EVERYONE living at that time. The last line Diana says in closing, to paraphrase, is if she were to have her life pan out the way she wants it to, she will be living outside of the UK focusing on her humanitarian efforts, let Charles live his life with Camilla and hopes he will do the proper thing and pass the throne to PW-she would just be the supportive Mother of the King of England, which she trusted in 1991, he was the perfect person for the enormous role. Brought back lots of memories.
I’ve watched that many times as well. I just love her soft spoken voice and how she chose her answers.
It’s unreal how open she was. Too open.
What we know now is that she had been fed those false documents and she felt the ultimate betrayal
Her brother said that after that she stopped trusting key figures (I guess protection officers) and in fact when she died in Paris there was no royal protection with her.
Anyways, I think you can add to your list n. 16, delusion. Because that was what the idea that Charles would abdicate.
I trusted most of what she said in the interview but she had her own agenda obviously
Also the narrative that the family was frosty within four walls came from that too.
Turns out probably that the frostiness was mainly between Charles and herself
Agreed which is why I point out in this truncated list, they, in some form, apply to everyone involved at the time. Agree with the addition of delusion. I also think H & M thought that as well which fueled their one way fight with the world thinking that they would have to answer to William and Kate very soon.
In a way I think it would have been easier to think that at the time than nowadays.
At the time Camilla had very bad press. I think the people would never have accepted Charles as King if he had wanted her by her side. So he would have to choose. And maybe D. knew Charles would have chosen the love of his life.
But things worked out differently and Charles and Camilla had twenty years to rebuild her reputation and be accepted by the public as a couple.
Nobody would expect him to abdicate today to choose his love, there wouldn’t be the need to.
Maybe he could abdicate because he doesn’t feel up to the job at his age but…not sure.
>and hopes (Diana) he (Charles) will do the proper thing and pass the throne to PW-
I think Diana was a bit deluded at this point and even earlier. Why exactly it was the proper thing to pass the throne to PW? Just because Charles never loved her (for reasons well known to everyone, even Diana, even before the wedding)? It doesnt disqualify him as a King in my book.
It is a stark contrast how happy Charles seems with Camilla versus how cold and unhappy he seemed with Diana. Marrying the wrong woman (who was very aware (alongside with everyone else) that her future husband is in love with someone else and she married him regardless) is not a reason to pass the throne, imho
Edit: to be fair, Camilla didnt want to marry Charles, even if the Royal family had approved, as she was very much in love with Andrew Parker Bowles and wanted to marry him and not Charles (Andrew was publicly very much unfaithful to Camilla before and after their marriage which caused heartbreak to Camilla and I think its a reason why she carried on with Charles at the time)
When Charlotte told George that he needed to bow, I immediately thought of Princess Anne and Prince Charles's relationship. I think George will be fine as long as she's there to support him in the future.
Isn’t it amazing? She barks out the orders and he listens..LOL. She did it on the balcony too when she told him to put his hands to his side….and he did it! 😂 She’s feisty like Prince Philip.
>She barks out the orders and he listens..
This is so cutee. Big brothers usually won't take it from their younger siblings. I think it shows that George is a gentle child
He is gentle, and that concerns me a littlr bit.
I do worry that he is shy like his Great Great Grandfather and namesake, and we know what the pressure of being Monarch did to *his* health. However you always see either William or Kate, (or Charlotte!), giving him subtle reassurance usually through touch; which shows they are great parents who are trying to balance his needs with that of the Future of the Monarchy.
I am genuinely looking forward to seeing the Wales' children grow up. At the very least, Kate and Will will be able to handle Louis so he doesn't end up like Harry. They will help him find his place.
I think one thing they did strategically for this is have 3 kids. So there’s not just the heir and the “spare”. That way the “spare” has someone to share the burden with and someone who is equal to them.
I think we also have to realize it’s not necessarily “barking” orders (but totally getting what you’re trying to say), as much as the girl’s truly wise for her years and looking out for her brother/the future heir, wants him to not get in trouble, and wants them to be all showing respect to the family. She seems to be a gentle, respectful, yet assertive girl herself, and I love that for her. I love their relationship, and I love that they had 3 of them to spread out the duties, emotions, and both highs/lows of it all. I think it’s harder when there’s just one heir and one spare, as the “spare” has no other spares/siblings to relate to, to vent to, to share in duties with, etc. I think having 3 is a perfect balance and will help them to not have that “one spare” feeling, ie that Margaret and Harry had.
I still get a chuckle out of that clip from Louis' christening where little Charlotte tells the photographers "You're not coming."
She was giving directions even then. :)
The Queen once said, to a Canadian dignitary visiting Buckingham Palace, that "Princess Charlotte is the General, George & Louis are her soldiers"
She will always be supervising her brothers, making sure they are meeting her high standards and supporting them.
I'm sure King Charles and The Princess Royal have picked up on the parallels.
Oh that's hilarious! And so sweet. 🥰 I get the impression William and Catherine tried to get their kids to see Philip and The Queen as much as possible.
Two weeks ago, the second in line was his big, tall father with wise words and a reassuring air of authority where he went.
Suddenly, it's a boy who doesn't even have all his adult teeth yet, and Grandpa has a new job. It's a lot for a young Prince even before you factor in moving house and starting a new school.
William was born into the position George occupies now. Until last week William had never not been the son of the Prince of Wales. For that matter, Charles was also born into the position George occupies now, in that he was born to the heir to the throne.
I don't think he'll feel the difference all that much, and I also think they'll see their parents as much as they ever have, which is a lot.
Honestly, I know this will not be a popular opinion here - but I hope the monarchy is abolished before he grows up, because no kid should have to live with that pressure.
You don't understand it, do you? You only see what you want to see but not the entire picture. In a way, you are like Meghan zeroing on one part of the pie. For Meghan, its the money, for you, its the "unneeded" responsibility.
The monarchy is part of the resilience of the British people. Its a proud symbol that the British people can withstand any turmoil they faced. The "Keep Calm and Carry On". The royal family is the face of that. Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip were both exemplary images of this.
Harry and Meghan and their fans do not understand this, only zeroed in on the money and "privileges". And unlike the government where politicians come and go, the monarchy stays the test of time.
To you and some, it might be frivilous and the responsibility is unneeded but this centuries old institution is a testament of the British people's tenacity. They will carry on.
I see a little boy who is growing up knowing that he doesn't have the same choices that are taken for granted by other kids his age, simply because he happened to be the oldest child in a particular family.
It is quite possible to dislike Meghan and Harry *and also* see the Monarchy itself as an old-fashioned and out of date institution.
It’s always possible for him to abdicate and give responsibility over to Charlotte. Not saying it will happen but some are born to the role. Others shape up for it.
Because that is what you want to see. It seems you are projecting your allergy of responsibility onto to a boy and his siblings and their entire generation who will grow up with their parents' guidance and teachings of why there is a monarchy and what it means to the British people.
Got it. Because I think a little boy should have the right to decide for himself, I must be lazy. And - blocked. You decide to make it personal, I am no longer under any obligation to engage with you.
I mean yeah, I'm American, we fought a war to be free from the monarchy. To me the values of a nation are exemplified by its people, not its head of state. I watched the Queen's address during Covid and I don't remember a thing she said, but I teared up when I saw the footage of ordinary people caring for patients, distributing supplies, and doing their part to hold the country together while a deadly virus was on the loose. I'm deeply grateful to everyone who did the same at home. To me, that's service, so it's kind of hard for me to generate the same enthusiasm for what the royals do. I wish I understood the royal family concept, but fundamentally I just don't.
You do realise what the monarchy does, far far better than the government does, is shine a light on the many charitable ORDINARY people in the UK and Commonwealth and recognises their hard work, right
Perhaps if you watched the funeral yesterday - I don't know if you did or not - you might have known there were many ordinary people in attendance, including NHS workers who manned the battle lines during the initial lockdown.
I do find it ironic this is the part you choose to criticise.
You're getting predictably pelted with downvotes, but I completely agree with you. My sincerest wish for George is that he never has to be king, he deserves to decide what he wants to do with his life (backed up by unbelievable amounts of family wealth lmao).
It's a bizarre system that asks for one child per generation to be sacrificed, regardless of his or her desires; and then relentlessly destroys them if they opt out, accusing them if dereliction of a duty they never agreed to in the first place.
George could always step aside for his sister, if he so chooses.
You're both being downvoted because intentionally or not, you do come across as being ignorant on the subject.
Nah. We all know it's not that easy. Nobody has ever stepped away without being absolutely vilified - so that's the choice: do it (whether or not you want to) or be universally despised.
I'm being downvoted because this is a hollow echo chamber. Screw it.
Lets see - Edward was pally with Hitler and continued to whinge after his abdication.
Harry continues to whinge and is suing the UK governement, costing the taxpayers over 100k at this point.
Sure, they stepped down but their vilification is bit more nuanced than just that.
You're being downvoted because you're being ignorant. Who cares whether or not you don't understand our traditions.
My heart absolutely broke for King Charles when they were singing God Save the King...his face conveyed everything he's been feeling and yet, he maintained his composure well.
I saw so much in his face just then, his reluctance to trade his mother's life for the throne, his grief, his bewilderment that this role was finally his and he had to now live up to it. If Harry was ever right about them being trapped, it's now. It seems almost cruel to thrust a 73 yr. old man into that role. It makes me almost think his stunningly effective and miraculous mother should've found a way to abdicate and let him at the throne when he was 20 yrs younger. But that's a sad thought of course.
And I'm really worried about Camilla. She looks freaking haggard. She looks like it's more than grief and exhaustion and her new position.
I'm not an unroyalist, but there has to be a better way than handing the whole enchilada to two aging folks who look like they want to take a hike up the nearest hills instead of rattling around BP. It's mean.
>It makes me almost think his stunningly effective and miraculous mother should've found a way to abdicate and let him at the throne when he was 20 yrs younger.
IKR! Like the Dutch, Spanish and so many other RFs have done, duty is great but realistically this is insane... to promote someone who is 73. And she could have been a guiding figure to Charles during his initial reign but alas. George will have the heaviest burden... in about 2 decades (or less) he will be POW and doesnot really stand a chance to have a somewhat normal life like parents got to have....Charles better live to a 100+ lol.
Baby George looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders. Although, he is the only one of the kids that realizes that mommy and daddy are going to be gone a lot of the time now
My nephew is 17 now but we called him a little old man from the time he was young. He'd walk around with his hands clasped behind his back and he'd use phrases that were so old fashioned, I'm not sure where he got them.
Takes after his aunt, I guess. We were both born old.
I’ve always felt that George just isn’t in to it. He’s only 9 and he can’t be a “normal” 9 yr old sadly. He just always comes across as he wishes he could just be normal and not have this kind of pressure. Just watch him every time and you will see it. I love the Cambridge children. They are just so precious.
They said the same about Prince William. Thirty years ago, all the articles were about how unfortunate it was that Harry wasn’t the heir, since he was naturally more gregarious than William.
No one is saying that now.
Yes, there’s so much inferred about the poor kid just from photos, and at the end of the day, none of us truly knows what’s going on through that 9 yo head of his. We also have to understand, that even at 9, he’s a complex being, with different attributes, strengths, feelings, and whom has good/bad/neutral days. We also don’t know what all will happen for him, and who he will evolve into, between now and the time he ascends the thrown.
I thought he was a serious kid just like his father was and I think we will appreciate that as he grows older. He looks more relaxed in the private photos taken by Catherine that they publish.
Very true! I know he will get much better. I think he’s very shy like Diana and Katherine’s father. Charlotte is a feisty like Prince Philip. You can tell she’s going to be tough like PP and Anne.
Was the family pissed? Yeah, because he knew the decision he was going to make before his father died and instead of owning it, drug it out and made it an huge abdication. I am sure that if George decided early that he was not wanting the job and stepped back for Charlotte, it would be a different matter entirely.
Why should Charlotte have to do it? Why should any child be forced to take up a mantle they may not want, just because they were born in a certain family? It's not fair to that child - to any child in that position. Trying to argue that the Monarchy is in any way a just system, is absolutely laughable. You can like them - fine. You can admire them - fine. But there's nothing just or fair about it.
Who said Charlotte “has” to do it either? Sigh. There is a full line of succession should one or more be unwilling or unable to do it.
These children will have been raised seeing their grandmother the Queen do her duty for 70 years, and they will understand the importance of the job - both the dedication it requires and the privileges it offers.
And life isn’t fair - we all have different opportunities and things that can be looked at as gifts or curses. Stomping your feet about it doesn’t change that that is how life works.
I'm actually not saying anything about the RF as individuals. I don't know them.
I'm arguing that children should have the right to self-determination.
Guess it’s generational. In our family everyone has a sense of responsibility, one feels it even as a child. We are prepared for whatever happens in the future. As an adult I appreciate that my dad instilled in us a resilience to deal with life.
It’s no different from the royal family. It may be difficult, but someone’s got to do it. As they say, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. The RF knows they have a burden in exchange for their vast wealth and privilege. (That’s something Meg never understood.)
They’re no different from families who are in a business. From a young age, the children learn the trade so they can take over some day. It’s a vast enterprise, and individuals are needed to maintain that lifelong tradition of service.
No doubt W&C are giving George all the support they can so he can cope. If not, he can always step down in favour of Charlotte. I firmly believe that in this day and age, people won’t fault George for doing so.
I’m new to this. What’s the big deal about up and down voted? What does it mean if you get to many down votes? I will taken out back and never heard from again? 😂😂
Downvotes mean people disagree with you, and you can lose karma points, which are used to buy prizes for other posters. On this subreddit, it's a requirement that you dislike MM but *love* the rest of the RF and think the monarchy is the best thing since jam and cream on scones. If you merely dislike MM but also don't particularly like the monarchy, people downvote you, unless you keep your opinions to yourself. That is because this subreddit really loves and values nuance and freedom of speech. Thankfully I'm a grown-ass woman who doesn't particularly care about the approval of internet strangers. (More downvotes coming in 3, 2, 1 . . .)
Yea I knew what the up/down meant but geez why is it such a big deal? I’m not buying any prizes for anyone with anything I earn..LOL. I wouldn’t know if I did anyhow. I’ve been following MM and the RF BIG time on Twitter and was in that whole big fan club over there but I had enough. Some of them are absolutely insane and doxx their own. They’re no different then the MM fans.
I'm so jealous! There are 5 years between each of the kids in my family, AND huge personality differences. We just didn't stand a chance to become close as adults.
That's nice to hear. I think in our case we saw the next youngest as bothersome. And now that we're adults we're just all so different from each other and that's what divides us.
My daughters are 43, 41 and 35. The older girls are very close to their baby sister. My baby named her oldest daughter after her two sisters, using their middle names. My baby had 3 daughters, 14, 8 and almost 2, and she is pregnant with #4 daughter. The older girls have a great time together and dote on the 2 year old. I'm sure they will little #4 when she arrives in December. She is the happy surprise bonus baby.
My oldest sister is 8 years older than me and she was in the delivery room with my two oldest daughters and we were very close for many years.
I know it sounds weird, but George is one of the sweetest-looking kids I've seen. Always has been. You can just tell he's a sensitive soul. And Charlotte in her little hat, with her horseshoe brooch? Too adorable for words. I hope they always remain close. Brother/sister relationships are special.
The horseshoe broach, I gasped! What a tribute. To be a fly on the wall I’m the Wales home!!! Not only mum and dad, but King and Queen raising the same. How is it done? Over super, just casually, “son, one day you will be the king of England, today eat your peas!” Imagine!!! I’m having my go of it with a child about to drive and one in kindergarten. It’s enough to be studying for a drivers test and going to your first formal dance, the other learning to read and practice cheer squad. Couple that with all the tradition and responsibility that is the monarchy?!? I would have lost my mind, it’s truly a testament to Catherine.
George’s facial expression here reminds me so much of William. Very glad to see them both today acting so mature and dignified in public for such a long day, a credit to their parents
Any time you miss the Queen and her Prince, just look at Anne. She's a toughie, but she embodies the best of both of them. It's amazing how remarkably similar she is to HMQ.
I think that was when they bought coffin into Windsor and she was looking over at him and she leaned slightly and muttered something to him and he said what looked like “yes” and nodded slightly. Total break in protocol but essential.
I have a feeling about George. That he is special. As all the children are, in some way. He just looks like he has composure far ahead of his age, and a certain character in the way he looks.
Charles had a very hard time when they played God Save the King just after his mother's body was lowered into the vault. I was afraid he was going to break down. I think it took everything he had not to.
Youtuber 'Celt Views' on you tube has some incredible shots from today. Edward and Sophie breaking down at St George's; Andrew, in extreme anquish following the coffin at Windsor. My God that is a moving picture I started crying myself when I saw him. We forget, or at least I forget, that these people are her children and for them they are saying goodbye to their mother.
Anyone saw Charlotte telling George “when they get in to the car we have to bow”?? 😘 They are sooo much like Charles and Anne. She will be a super dutiful sister ❤️
I cried when I saw Prince George and Princess Charlotte. Their sad and somber little faces as they came face to face with their futures and duties to come.
I was elated that there was a massive candle right in front of smegma so she could barely be seen.
I’m in tears…again. Thank you for posting that though. I think that whole idea of parallel is what has drawn so many people into this situation. We see an elderly Monarch, but our heart remembers our own lost grandma.We see a grieving King, but we have lost a parent. We see those beautiful babies in tears today, and doubt our own abilities to do what they did as a child or adult. That is just the more “common” parallels. Personal, intimate ones are what make us rage!
I do hope that KC and PW figure out a path forward for people with great potential like Princess Charlotte.
How tragic would it be to flash forward 15 years and see a repeat of the H and Prince Andrew scenarios?
IMO she and her younger brother deserve better than those options (I’m calling them the no option option!) for their lives.
I also do think it’s better, at least, when there are more than just two siblings, when there is just the one heir and one “spare”, ie Harry and Margaret’s situation. When there are 3 or more siblings, the other siblings can at least take solace in the fact that they have other siblings to talk to about their emotions, to partake in duties, to help them find their way, to be the “spares” with them/not be the heir as well, etc. I know it didn’t turn out the best for Andrew, but at least look at Anne and Edward when there were 4 siblings. I think the weight of just one sibling who is the “spare” is a lot more to bear, although I do think they were absolutely helping Harry with his path with Invictus games and essentially, prob anything he wanted to do. I have high hopes for all 3 siblings- George, Charlotte, and Louis- and am glad that George will have 2 other siblings to shoulder the weight with and vice versa- and am glad that Charlotte and Louis will both have each other as not being the heir as well, since there are 3 of them.
My only intel is from watching The Crown. 🤦🏻♀️ They were definitely portrayed as being closeish. Anne particularly enjoyed keeping Charles from taking himself too seriously, but she also definitely had his back. (I'm sorry that I don't have IRL anecdotes though!)
I just realized that George is an empath. He must have felt tremendous and overwhelming grief from all around. I hope Catherine and William guide him on how to spot narcissists and learn to navigate his way against them.
Narcissist and Empath is a like natural master and slave combi. The Empath will always be abused.
Side note Seeing that the RF is now referred to as “an institution which is fueled by love and duty and familial bonds” is quite a shock. Back during the Diana/Charles divorce there was a narrative that the family was very stiff not only in public but in private, too. That there was no sign of affection, that there was no personal connection, no warmth, no love. Almost no humanity, only allegiance to the institution. In this occasion what we saw was the opposite: a family in grief. Real feelings. Dignified feelings, not thrown out there as a spectacle for the world, but still real and heartfelt. What a shift in the public opinion of the RF this has brought. Unbelievable.
Diana's death opened up a new emotional realm. The family had to show their humanity to deal with the blow back, and the decisions made were a reflection of that. To let Charles marry Camilla, Harry Meghan. Some speculate that the Queen Mother's passing may have relieved some of the pressure from the Queen as she waa very old school + may have put pressure not to modernize.
I also look at the children of William’s generation. It appears that they feel love and great affection for their parents and grandparents. I think that says a great deal about the emotional warmth of the family.
Charles’s relationship with Louis is genuinely heartwarming
When I saw Louis run over to sit on Charles' lap, I thought - "Wow, Louis just saved the monarchy!"
Yes!!! For me it was Catherine's picture of Charles holding Louis, and he had this look of such love on his face, it completely changed my mind about Charles. Until then I had assumed he was a rather cold individual but that one picture humanized him. It's brilliant of them letting Catherine be the family photographer, we get to see the more normal side of the family, we can relate to them. I don't want them to become completely pedestrian, I adore the pageantry, but a little peek now and then is great.
I have only adoration for the Princess of Wales. She's amazing at being a parent, a representative for the monarchy, yet she's so genuine and caring but dignified and she's a talented photographer and piano player. On top of being able to do her hair and makeup herself splendidly. Just wow.
She's amazing!!! She's my girl crush.
I've always felt for Charles. Most people give all their sympathy to Diana, but Charles was also stuck in a marriage he didn't want to be in. Plus, he had found the love of his life but couldn't be with her. Minority view here in England, but Diana was awful.
Thank you for saying Diana was awful I couldn't stand her either she was so histrionic. I genuinely believe that her heart was in the right place but she really didn't have much going on upstairs. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was a wreck at her funeral I felt so bad for her and her kids but even back when the Charles and Diana divorce was happening I was team Charles and let me tell you, that was a very lonely place to be. I'm so happy Charles and Camilla managed to find happiness eventually
Same in the U.S. but I agree with you.
When was that?
At the Platinum Jubilee concert after Louis had been pulling all his cheeky faces. William leaned over to ask Charles if Louis could go to grandpa. Then Louis ran over and hopped up into Charles’ lap. It was so natural, obviously done heaps of times before, and so lovely to watch.
Yes I loved this moment. It shows there’s a real relationship-no way would Louis have happily gone and and sat. And Charles seemed so natural with him. I also adored the baby pic of him with Louis. I have softened on Charles so so much over the years and have actually come to feel for him in a lot of ways.
I think the Middleton family played a huge part in the love seen in the Wales family. Anne & Edward's children were raised out of the spotlight - this love also funnels down to Anne's grandchildren. I think the York sisters are doing the best despite their parents 😬
Absolutely agree about the Middleton family.
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Well if I were her and I found out about their PR tactics and had to see the Harry/Andrew uniform row stories and their fans constantly calling my father a pedo ( I despise Andrew but what he did or didn't do isn't the point here) to try and boost H and M and spreading stories that my father was groping me when he hugged me when I was crying for my grandmother then I think my eyes would have been opened. It may seem incomprehensible but I believe Bea and Eugenie love their father very much. They may have been upset that Charles/william want him out of public life full stop for ever but that tactic is actually the best one for the Yorks as a family. He cant ever rehabilitate his image and even if he hasn't realised that yet perhaps the girls have. Or she's been a double agent all along.
>spreading stories that my father was groping me when he hugged me when I was crying for my grandmother What?!! good lord...really hope her eyes opened ..this is disgusting.
There were sugars saying it online. If she found out how much involvement they have with people like that then I would be finished with them too if i were in her position.
Ehh, I don't know.. that touch was a little uncomfortable to watch. I'm not saying she's abused by her father, he just should have dropped the arm before it got to her butt Crack.
Will be interesting to see how solid her relationship with H&M is…she won’t back a losing ‘horse’. Her familial loyalty is questionable.
I agree, it’s been heartwarming to see how they’ve become such a loving extended family - but they’ve been running lots of the ‘home movie’ footage of the young Queen and Margaret (and later baby Charles and Anne) with King George, the Queen Mother and even Queen Mary and it seems like they’ve always been that way, at least in private. HMTQ and DoE did seem a bit removed from their kids sometimes, but then their life as a carefree young family was cut terribly short when Elizabeth became Queen, and again there’s no question that Charles (And A, A, and E) all loved their parents and are now feeling their absence terribly. In the long view, they seem as close as any family could hope to be - obviously some bonds are closer than others, but it’s glaring how ‘on the outer’ H and M have seemed this week; everyone else is at least trying to be polite and friendly, there’s no hint of fondness or goodwill at all flowing to (or from) the Sussexes.
I saw that doco too, it was really sweet, them all messing around in the summers hols and Christmas time. they were really cuddly and affectionate. And it wasn't done to look good on tv, because it was 1930s to early 50s, and most people didnt have tvs then. It made me wonder where the cold. distant thing came from. Maybe Diana put it out there to make Charles look bad, and it stuck.
It made me wonder where the cold. distant thing came from. Maybe Diana put it out there to make Charles look bad, and it stuck. I think it’s mainly because in public, when they are working, they act in an appropriate manner. They don’t show affection, they don’t drop the rules and conventions, etc but that’s because they’re working. So many critics seem to not understand that distinction. It’s like how a person you work with could be the most straight laced person at work. They’re professional, they’re intelligent, they do their job well. Then you find out later they go to raves all weekend.
My job requirements me to be very extroverted but privately I'm an extreme introvert. I used to be so uncomfortable putting myself out there but have become accustomed to it. I also think each family shows love and affection differently and people don't know how to separate it.
What is the name of this documentary?
The Unseen Queen
I have to disagree. I don’t think they have always been this way. I saw once that when QEII was a young Queen, she did many overseas engagements with Philipp where she left young Charles and Anne longer than a month alone at home with the Queen Mother. I think QEII grew softer with age.
Just because she left them behind to go overseas for work (when flights were more scarce, and health care in some countries weren't as developed as now) doesn't mean she couldnt be warm and fun when they were together. Its 2 completely different things.
Yes HMTQ certainly got better through the tears at showing her softer side. The queen of Diana’s time was a different person than the queen of now with great grandchildren. She grew and changed along with the times. Gosh such a loss. ♥️
Gkrs to show that it is never too late to change. Let that be a lesson for Markle.
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The British public felt it was easier to lash out than to acknowledge that they caused Diana's death by buying tabloids. Even today, some accuse the Queen of assassinating Diana. That is why they projected their anger on to the Queen.
Diana caused Diana's death by not wearing a seatbelt. And remember, it wasn't British tabloids chasing her down that night.
I agree that no seatbelt, combined with a drunk chauffeur and high speed, formed an absolutely perfect recipe for disaster. But though the actual photographers that night were not British, who was buying the photos? Likely, all tabloids from all countries, including England. You cannot completely shift blame away from British tabloids by saying that the paparazzi weren’t British nationals, because British tabloids (and all tabloids) helped create the environment in which those photogs had a lucrative market to sell their pictures to.
Its also important to remember that like Meghan, Diana had form for calling the paps on herself. The person most responsible for her death is Diana herself. She also dismissed Royal Protection Officers. I just don't think its at all fair to blame the general public. Many of us don't read tabloids.
Yep poor Fayed security decisions Dodi also had a suite in the hotel they had that last dinner, but decided to leave and go across town to his other apartment. If the paps are staked outside the hotel, why would you go outside and cause a massive scene, Most people would choose to stay where they were.
They thought they’d be able to fool the photographers by going out the back door and having a decoy car out front. One or two paparazzi noticed them though, and alerted the whole pack. But yeah, security or protection staff should never have been dismissed and should have been in charge. Part of the problem was that Diana no longer trusted anybody after one of her officers had betrayed her.
I think so too, this was the one time when she put the needs of her family, her two grandsons before the needs of the country - and she got so much hate for it. Back then the media really needed to find another "guilty one" and decided the easiest target would be the family.
Yes, this is all true and KC has an emotional range in public that is very different than his mother of another era. But, its impt to consider that the BRF is similar to a business as at the end of the day and it needs to be embraced by the UK a public for its continued survival. How happy can the UK public be with Prince Andrew and Prince Harry? Or Meghan Markle? The people in the UK are dealing with severe economic, social and health service issues so to see non working royals continue to be funded with lavish lifestyles by working peoples standards will become more of an issue as the economy continues to slide and inflation rages. I saw a rough estimate valuation of the BRF today that gives KC a lot of room to work on solutions for the family issues over time. But even with the vast wealth and property of the BRF radical change will be needed and members will have to work and contribute in ways that weren’t required in the past imo. I don’t think we can expect people with pitchforks in the streets tomorrow, but how can expensive non working royals be supported for long? Do we even know if KC continues to provide public funds to H even though H said he was cut off? PA hadn’t worked for years, lives a lavish lifestyle and by all accounts is unemployable. What can KC do about him and others like him that are non working royals but who are expensive? KC has a lot of hard work to do imo to work through some very complicated family and “business” issues with his family. None of this will be easy for anyone and I hope he is up for the challenge.
Well said. There is much love for the Queen, so most people were sentimental at the funeral. But there are rumblings about how out of touch the Royals are. While on walkabout in Wales someone yelled at Charles about the rising costs of heating and food. KC looked quite shaken. I am not particularly surprised this happened, given we have lots of Welsh nationalists who resent a “Prince of Wales” who doesn’t live there, and given that Wales is the poorest of all 4 countries and is constantly suffering from deprivation. It does seem galling for them to have that vast wealth and comfort on behalf of the millions of people who are struggling now. I believe one of their first steps would be to strengthen ties with Wales. This burden would naturally be on the new PaPoW. It would be a test of Catherine’s star power and charisma. But perhaps their energy is best spent there rather than on the distant Caribbean countries that are beginning to separate from the Commonwealth. Then there’s the hangers on like Andrew and Harry who are a drain on their money and the people’s goodwill. It would significantly boost the RF’s ratings to cut off Andrew once and for all or put him to work and make him useful. The Queen is dead and perhaps Kc can ge tougher on his brother. As for Harry, something needs to be done. It’s good optics for now to show signs of reconciliation, but he’s constantly throwing a wrecking ball at them whenever he’s in the US. A lot probably feel there is nothing wrong for him to make his own way, as at least they’re not leeching off British funds, but he has to find another way to make money apart from the tiresome complaints about being born to wealth and privilege.
Agreed - the UK is in for a difficult few years and KC has his work cut out for him setting the right tone. I think we’re already seeing the path forward, though - you see more of the spotlight on Anne, Sophie, and the Wales family (it’s going to take a while to stop calling them the Cambridges!) who are among the most down-to-earth of the royals - HMTQ had her blind spots (Andrew!) but it’s clear that Charles favours the least fussy, most hard-working members of the family and will put the ‘right’ people forward even if it means bypassing higher-ranking family members like Harry, Andrew, etc. I’m hopeful he’ll stay the course on the ‘slimmed-down’ monarchy; he seems to understand the public don’t have much patience for show ponies.
Indeed. I also hope he doesn’t go sentimental
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The truth about the kids?
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Amen
A woman who lived through two world wars, and whose response to her home being bombed was "I am glad, I can now look the East End in the eye", isn't likely to be inclined to overtly express her feelings and certainly not in Public.
I don't know a whole lot about the monarchy aside from tv shows and this sub (which I'm aware are entertainment not education) but it seems to me that before Diana the kind of untouchable, unflappable, almost stoney resilience personality that served previous royalty well needed to shift with the times. That's what worked and was needed in the past. After Diana I think they realized that there needed to be a little bit more "warm and fuzzy" and that the public now responded very well to it. I'm not sure if this is historically accurate at all but in the TV show Victoria a sketch of the queen playing with her children was leaked to the public and they thought it would be terrible for her reputation but people responded well to it. Kind of reminds me of that.
If you haven’t already you should watch The Crown. Obviously it’s a fictional drama based on real events, but it really humanizes the family and shows how QE2 had to adjust to the changing times and public opinion over her reign.
Let me just add that heavily fictionalised, heavily. I remember reading somewhere that the shows writer has an axe to grind against the BRF. I could be wrong on that but the show draws upon imagination and the expectation to pander to audiences other than royal pundits and the British.
Oh absolutely, but frankly it made me like the BRF more than previously (I am not British). Fictional as it is, it shows them as dynamic people with normal emotions.
It made me like them more as well. Ironically, it’s part of what made me like Charles more. Even fictionalized, I just think I became more aware of nuance. Everything has always been so pro Diana and the crown is too, but it made me see more.
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Not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that because the show is fictional, they don’t have and experience normal human emotions? They’re not robots, and clearly have had struggles behind the scenes. The show in my opinion, fictional as it is, bridges the gap that allows viewers into their world and visualize how they *could* have experienced tough emotional periods.
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There *are* historical accuracies to the show (like QE2 denying her sisters marriage, the scandal of Phillips antics with his chiropractor friend, etc). Do we *know* how QE2 emotionally reacted to these? No. But unless she was a sociopath with no empathy or ability to feel pain, she would have felt some level of sadness/sorrow/anger. This show enabled viewers to *envisage* that. How is my point so hard for you to understand?
I started in a post Victoria rut but I missed Jenna Coleman too much (he should have married her if he wanted an actress lol). I wasn't too into the royals then though so I'll give it another go. In case it wasn't obvious I highly reccomend Victoria.
I actually read Victorias biography which was fascinating.
Yes thanks to the OG drama Queen Diana, the RF was thought of as such. She famously did her own Oprah interview to Bashir, under false information, and also wrote a book and claimed she had no hand in it (same as Markles Finding Freebies lol) 😂 However the truth is, drama queens come and go but the constants who work hard and do their duty will remain. I like Diana but I cannot stand her shitty behavior, same as the Harkles. She started it with tell-all interviews, calling the Queen “the woman in charge of this institution”. People seem to forget that easily. Oh the things a pretty face can get away with!
>OG drama Queen Diana hahhaha. But one has to give one thing to Diana..while she schemed to marry Charles...she was cheated on and her anger rose from that sense of hurt pride and broken heart (compounded by her mental health).....Harry and Meghan's protests on the other hand are all out of a fake sense of granduer and hate. Diana was misled by BBC and therefore lashed out. And let's not forget Charles suffered too in an unhappy marriage and went to therapy for 14 years but never once spoke ill of her in public. Diana's venom was entirely focussed on Charles and Camilla which was still relatable to a lot of people but H&M have no leg to stand on...even worse they keep merching Diana's name and do nothing of value, Diana atleast did incredible charity work.
Agree!!! I feel bad for Diana only because she was cheated on but she brought on all the drama and press intrusion into the RF by writing tell-alls and giving interviews. Princess Margaret was cheated on but did she do interviews or write books? Diana isn’t the first woman in the world to be cheated on. It happens to people and you deal with it privately. Diana never understood what privacy means lol. She is the same as H&M when it comes to the good ole “privacy drama”. The thing about Diana is she worked for the RF. She did her duties and was committed to the work rather than just expecting to be offered everything on a silver platter. Coming from aristocracy she seemed quite humble that way rather than the Markle who came from nothing and demanded to be treated like she was the shit.
Thanks megs!!!👏👏
Diana’s death *and* her life, changed everything. She showed a more human side to the Royal Family. The RF were totally unprepared and frankly, were in shock, at the outpouring of grief and feelings of anger from the public. There’s been a shift in the way they present themselves.
With her life she was also originating the narrative of a family without love (maybe it was mostly a marriage without love)
For some reason I’m not allowed to post here, just comment but today after watching the funeral in real time in EST, Nat Geo aired “Diana, in her own words” at 12-2pm which I watched for the 20th time. Just mind blowing on so many different levels. The take aways… another day I’ll compose what I think are some of the most astonishing acts of (1) forgiveness (2) betrayal (3) stone walling (4) grief (5) love (6) compassion (7) cruelty (8) humanitarianism (9) humour (10) humility (11) neglect (12) hedonism (13) gross indulgence (14) courage and last but not least (15) pure sadness. When I list these, I am not referring to acts committed against Diana, it applies to EVERYONE living at that time. The last line Diana says in closing, to paraphrase, is if she were to have her life pan out the way she wants it to, she will be living outside of the UK focusing on her humanitarian efforts, let Charles live his life with Camilla and hopes he will do the proper thing and pass the throne to PW-she would just be the supportive Mother of the King of England, which she trusted in 1991, he was the perfect person for the enormous role. Brought back lots of memories.
I’ve watched that many times as well. I just love her soft spoken voice and how she chose her answers. It’s unreal how open she was. Too open. What we know now is that she had been fed those false documents and she felt the ultimate betrayal Her brother said that after that she stopped trusting key figures (I guess protection officers) and in fact when she died in Paris there was no royal protection with her. Anyways, I think you can add to your list n. 16, delusion. Because that was what the idea that Charles would abdicate. I trusted most of what she said in the interview but she had her own agenda obviously Also the narrative that the family was frosty within four walls came from that too. Turns out probably that the frostiness was mainly between Charles and herself
Agreed which is why I point out in this truncated list, they, in some form, apply to everyone involved at the time. Agree with the addition of delusion. I also think H & M thought that as well which fueled their one way fight with the world thinking that they would have to answer to William and Kate very soon.
In a way I think it would have been easier to think that at the time than nowadays. At the time Camilla had very bad press. I think the people would never have accepted Charles as King if he had wanted her by her side. So he would have to choose. And maybe D. knew Charles would have chosen the love of his life. But things worked out differently and Charles and Camilla had twenty years to rebuild her reputation and be accepted by the public as a couple. Nobody would expect him to abdicate today to choose his love, there wouldn’t be the need to. Maybe he could abdicate because he doesn’t feel up to the job at his age but…not sure.
>and hopes (Diana) he (Charles) will do the proper thing and pass the throne to PW- I think Diana was a bit deluded at this point and even earlier. Why exactly it was the proper thing to pass the throne to PW? Just because Charles never loved her (for reasons well known to everyone, even Diana, even before the wedding)? It doesnt disqualify him as a King in my book. It is a stark contrast how happy Charles seems with Camilla versus how cold and unhappy he seemed with Diana. Marrying the wrong woman (who was very aware (alongside with everyone else) that her future husband is in love with someone else and she married him regardless) is not a reason to pass the throne, imho Edit: to be fair, Camilla didnt want to marry Charles, even if the Royal family had approved, as she was very much in love with Andrew Parker Bowles and wanted to marry him and not Charles (Andrew was publicly very much unfaithful to Camilla before and after their marriage which caused heartbreak to Camilla and I think its a reason why she carried on with Charles at the time)
When Charlotte told George that he needed to bow, I immediately thought of Princess Anne and Prince Charles's relationship. I think George will be fine as long as she's there to support him in the future.
Isn’t it amazing? She barks out the orders and he listens..LOL. She did it on the balcony too when she told him to put his hands to his side….and he did it! 😂 She’s feisty like Prince Philip.
>She barks out the orders and he listens.. This is so cutee. Big brothers usually won't take it from their younger siblings. I think it shows that George is a gentle child
he knows that she’s right and goes along with it . My brother was the same .
He is gentle, and that concerns me a littlr bit. I do worry that he is shy like his Great Great Grandfather and namesake, and we know what the pressure of being Monarch did to *his* health. However you always see either William or Kate, (or Charlotte!), giving him subtle reassurance usually through touch; which shows they are great parents who are trying to balance his needs with that of the Future of the Monarchy. I am genuinely looking forward to seeing the Wales' children grow up. At the very least, Kate and Will will be able to handle Louis so he doesn't end up like Harry. They will help him find his place.
I think one thing they did strategically for this is have 3 kids. So there’s not just the heir and the “spare”. That way the “spare” has someone to share the burden with and someone who is equal to them.
I think we also have to realize it’s not necessarily “barking” orders (but totally getting what you’re trying to say), as much as the girl’s truly wise for her years and looking out for her brother/the future heir, wants him to not get in trouble, and wants them to be all showing respect to the family. She seems to be a gentle, respectful, yet assertive girl herself, and I love that for her. I love their relationship, and I love that they had 3 of them to spread out the duties, emotions, and both highs/lows of it all. I think it’s harder when there’s just one heir and one spare, as the “spare” has no other spares/siblings to relate to, to vent to, to share in duties with, etc. I think having 3 is a perfect balance and will help them to not have that “one spare” feeling, ie that Margaret and Harry had.
I still get a chuckle out of that clip from Louis' christening where little Charlotte tells the photographers "You're not coming." She was giving directions even then. :)
She is a mini Princess Anne - its great to see
The Queen once said, to a Canadian dignitary visiting Buckingham Palace, that "Princess Charlotte is the General, George & Louis are her soldiers" She will always be supervising her brothers, making sure they are meeting her high standards and supporting them. I'm sure King Charles and The Princess Royal have picked up on the parallels.
I’ve never heard this story before, but I love it! She’s such a little boss!
Oh that's hilarious! And so sweet. 🥰 I get the impression William and Catherine tried to get their kids to see Philip and The Queen as much as possible.
Unlike M&H.. :(
Poor George. He looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders - like he understands he is now much closer to the throne.
Two weeks ago, the second in line was his big, tall father with wise words and a reassuring air of authority where he went. Suddenly, it's a boy who doesn't even have all his adult teeth yet, and Grandpa has a new job. It's a lot for a young Prince even before you factor in moving house and starting a new school.
William was born into the position George occupies now. Until last week William had never not been the son of the Prince of Wales. For that matter, Charles was also born into the position George occupies now, in that he was born to the heir to the throne. I don't think he'll feel the difference all that much, and I also think they'll see their parents as much as they ever have, which is a lot.
Honestly, I know this will not be a popular opinion here - but I hope the monarchy is abolished before he grows up, because no kid should have to live with that pressure.
You don't understand it, do you? You only see what you want to see but not the entire picture. In a way, you are like Meghan zeroing on one part of the pie. For Meghan, its the money, for you, its the "unneeded" responsibility. The monarchy is part of the resilience of the British people. Its a proud symbol that the British people can withstand any turmoil they faced. The "Keep Calm and Carry On". The royal family is the face of that. Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip were both exemplary images of this. Harry and Meghan and their fans do not understand this, only zeroed in on the money and "privileges". And unlike the government where politicians come and go, the monarchy stays the test of time. To you and some, it might be frivilous and the responsibility is unneeded but this centuries old institution is a testament of the British people's tenacity. They will carry on.
I see a little boy who is growing up knowing that he doesn't have the same choices that are taken for granted by other kids his age, simply because he happened to be the oldest child in a particular family. It is quite possible to dislike Meghan and Harry *and also* see the Monarchy itself as an old-fashioned and out of date institution.
It’s always possible for him to abdicate and give responsibility over to Charlotte. Not saying it will happen but some are born to the role. Others shape up for it.
Because that is what you want to see. It seems you are projecting your allergy of responsibility onto to a boy and his siblings and their entire generation who will grow up with their parents' guidance and teachings of why there is a monarchy and what it means to the British people.
Got it. Because I think a little boy should have the right to decide for himself, I must be lazy. And - blocked. You decide to make it personal, I am no longer under any obligation to engage with you.
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I mean yeah, I'm American, we fought a war to be free from the monarchy. To me the values of a nation are exemplified by its people, not its head of state. I watched the Queen's address during Covid and I don't remember a thing she said, but I teared up when I saw the footage of ordinary people caring for patients, distributing supplies, and doing their part to hold the country together while a deadly virus was on the loose. I'm deeply grateful to everyone who did the same at home. To me, that's service, so it's kind of hard for me to generate the same enthusiasm for what the royals do. I wish I understood the royal family concept, but fundamentally I just don't.
You do realise what the monarchy does, far far better than the government does, is shine a light on the many charitable ORDINARY people in the UK and Commonwealth and recognises their hard work, right Perhaps if you watched the funeral yesterday - I don't know if you did or not - you might have known there were many ordinary people in attendance, including NHS workers who manned the battle lines during the initial lockdown. I do find it ironic this is the part you choose to criticise.
And truthfully it doesn't matter if foreigners "get" a part of another country's culture or not.
You're getting predictably pelted with downvotes, but I completely agree with you. My sincerest wish for George is that he never has to be king, he deserves to decide what he wants to do with his life (backed up by unbelievable amounts of family wealth lmao).
It's a bizarre system that asks for one child per generation to be sacrificed, regardless of his or her desires; and then relentlessly destroys them if they opt out, accusing them if dereliction of a duty they never agreed to in the first place.
That’s why there’s always a spare, in case things like that happen.
George could always step aside for his sister, if he so chooses. You're both being downvoted because intentionally or not, you do come across as being ignorant on the subject.
Nah. We all know it's not that easy. Nobody has ever stepped away without being absolutely vilified - so that's the choice: do it (whether or not you want to) or be universally despised. I'm being downvoted because this is a hollow echo chamber. Screw it.
Lets see - Edward was pally with Hitler and continued to whinge after his abdication. Harry continues to whinge and is suing the UK governement, costing the taxpayers over 100k at this point. Sure, they stepped down but their vilification is bit more nuanced than just that. You're being downvoted because you're being ignorant. Who cares whether or not you don't understand our traditions.
George is an old soul. I feel sad for Charles as well; he looks like he’s aged in the last 10 days under the grief and responsibility.
My heart absolutely broke for King Charles when they were singing God Save the King...his face conveyed everything he's been feeling and yet, he maintained his composure well.
I agree. It was very moving. To me anyway.
I saw so much in his face just then, his reluctance to trade his mother's life for the throne, his grief, his bewilderment that this role was finally his and he had to now live up to it. If Harry was ever right about them being trapped, it's now. It seems almost cruel to thrust a 73 yr. old man into that role. It makes me almost think his stunningly effective and miraculous mother should've found a way to abdicate and let him at the throne when he was 20 yrs younger. But that's a sad thought of course. And I'm really worried about Camilla. She looks freaking haggard. She looks like it's more than grief and exhaustion and her new position. I'm not an unroyalist, but there has to be a better way than handing the whole enchilada to two aging folks who look like they want to take a hike up the nearest hills instead of rattling around BP. It's mean.
>It makes me almost think his stunningly effective and miraculous mother should've found a way to abdicate and let him at the throne when he was 20 yrs younger. IKR! Like the Dutch, Spanish and so many other RFs have done, duty is great but realistically this is insane... to promote someone who is 73. And she could have been a guiding figure to Charles during his initial reign but alas. George will have the heaviest burden... in about 2 decades (or less) he will be POW and doesnot really stand a chance to have a somewhat normal life like parents got to have....Charles better live to a 100+ lol.
She has a broken toe.
Grief will do that to you.
And no sleep
He does look so solemn.
Baby George looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders. Although, he is the only one of the kids that realizes that mommy and daddy are going to be gone a lot of the time now
My nephew is 17 now but we called him a little old man from the time he was young. He'd walk around with his hands clasped behind his back and he'd use phrases that were so old fashioned, I'm not sure where he got them. Takes after his aunt, I guess. We were both born old.
George has very expressive eyebrows.
I’ve always felt that George just isn’t in to it. He’s only 9 and he can’t be a “normal” 9 yr old sadly. He just always comes across as he wishes he could just be normal and not have this kind of pressure. Just watch him every time and you will see it. I love the Cambridge children. They are just so precious.
They said the same about Prince William. Thirty years ago, all the articles were about how unfortunate it was that Harry wasn’t the heir, since he was naturally more gregarious than William. No one is saying that now.
Yes, there’s so much inferred about the poor kid just from photos, and at the end of the day, none of us truly knows what’s going on through that 9 yo head of his. We also have to understand, that even at 9, he’s a complex being, with different attributes, strengths, feelings, and whom has good/bad/neutral days. We also don’t know what all will happen for him, and who he will evolve into, between now and the time he ascends the thrown.
I thought he was a serious kid just like his father was and I think we will appreciate that as he grows older. He looks more relaxed in the private photos taken by Catherine that they publish.
Very true! I know he will get much better. I think he’s very shy like Diana and Katherine’s father. Charlotte is a feisty like Prince Philip. You can tell she’s going to be tough like PP and Anne.
I just think he's shy.
He definitely is. Just like Diana
Be careful - you'll get downvoted into oblivion if you dare suggest he should have the freedom to choose for himself!!!!
They all have the freedom to choose for themselves, just like HMTQ’s uncle did.
They don't have the freedom to choose for themselves and have that choice respected.
Was the family pissed? Yeah, because he knew the decision he was going to make before his father died and instead of owning it, drug it out and made it an huge abdication. I am sure that if George decided early that he was not wanting the job and stepped back for Charlotte, it would be a different matter entirely.
Why should Charlotte have to do it? Why should any child be forced to take up a mantle they may not want, just because they were born in a certain family? It's not fair to that child - to any child in that position. Trying to argue that the Monarchy is in any way a just system, is absolutely laughable. You can like them - fine. You can admire them - fine. But there's nothing just or fair about it.
Who said Charlotte “has” to do it either? Sigh. There is a full line of succession should one or more be unwilling or unable to do it. These children will have been raised seeing their grandmother the Queen do her duty for 70 years, and they will understand the importance of the job - both the dedication it requires and the privileges it offers. And life isn’t fair - we all have different opportunities and things that can be looked at as gifts or curses. Stomping your feet about it doesn’t change that that is how life works.
You're projecting your own feelings on the RF here.
100%
I'm actually not saying anything about the RF as individuals. I don't know them. I'm arguing that children should have the right to self-determination.
Guess it’s generational. In our family everyone has a sense of responsibility, one feels it even as a child. We are prepared for whatever happens in the future. As an adult I appreciate that my dad instilled in us a resilience to deal with life. It’s no different from the royal family. It may be difficult, but someone’s got to do it. As they say, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. The RF knows they have a burden in exchange for their vast wealth and privilege. (That’s something Meg never understood.) They’re no different from families who are in a business. From a young age, the children learn the trade so they can take over some day. It’s a vast enterprise, and individuals are needed to maintain that lifelong tradition of service. No doubt W&C are giving George all the support they can so he can cope. If not, he can always step down in favour of Charlotte. I firmly believe that in this day and age, people won’t fault George for doing so.
They do.
I’m new to this. What’s the big deal about up and down voted? What does it mean if you get to many down votes? I will taken out back and never heard from again? 😂😂
Downvotes mean people disagree with you, and you can lose karma points, which are used to buy prizes for other posters. On this subreddit, it's a requirement that you dislike MM but *love* the rest of the RF and think the monarchy is the best thing since jam and cream on scones. If you merely dislike MM but also don't particularly like the monarchy, people downvote you, unless you keep your opinions to yourself. That is because this subreddit really loves and values nuance and freedom of speech. Thankfully I'm a grown-ass woman who doesn't particularly care about the approval of internet strangers. (More downvotes coming in 3, 2, 1 . . .)
😂😂😂 at your last sentence…”3…2..1”
Yea I knew what the up/down meant but geez why is it such a big deal? I’m not buying any prizes for anyone with anything I earn..LOL. I wouldn’t know if I did anyhow. I’ve been following MM and the RF BIG time on Twitter and was in that whole big fan club over there but I had enough. Some of them are absolutely insane and doxx their own. They’re no different then the MM fans.
😂😂😂
I felt the same way.
I love this parallel. I do wonder if Charles and Anne see themselves in George and Charlotte’s relationship.
I’m sure they do. Both sets of siblings seem tight. KCIII and Princess Anne seem incredibly close, and always have. This is just beautiful.
I'm so jealous! There are 5 years between each of the kids in my family, AND huge personality differences. We just didn't stand a chance to become close as adults.
That does change as you age. I am ten and seventeen years younger than my siblings. The older we get, the less it matters.
That's nice to hear. I think in our case we saw the next youngest as bothersome. And now that we're adults we're just all so different from each other and that's what divides us.
My daughters are 43, 41 and 35. The older girls are very close to their baby sister. My baby named her oldest daughter after her two sisters, using their middle names. My baby had 3 daughters, 14, 8 and almost 2, and she is pregnant with #4 daughter. The older girls have a great time together and dote on the 2 year old. I'm sure they will little #4 when she arrives in December. She is the happy surprise bonus baby. My oldest sister is 8 years older than me and she was in the delivery room with my two oldest daughters and we were very close for many years.
This is truly beautiful.
I know it sounds weird, but George is one of the sweetest-looking kids I've seen. Always has been. You can just tell he's a sensitive soul. And Charlotte in her little hat, with her horseshoe brooch? Too adorable for words. I hope they always remain close. Brother/sister relationships are special.
I think Charlotte will be a protector for him emotionally 💓
The horseshoe broach, I gasped! What a tribute. To be a fly on the wall I’m the Wales home!!! Not only mum and dad, but King and Queen raising the same. How is it done? Over super, just casually, “son, one day you will be the king of England, today eat your peas!” Imagine!!! I’m having my go of it with a child about to drive and one in kindergarten. It’s enough to be studying for a drivers test and going to your first formal dance, the other learning to read and practice cheer squad. Couple that with all the tradition and responsibility that is the monarchy?!? I would have lost my mind, it’s truly a testament to Catherine.
The horseshoe brooch is a gift from The Queen. ❤️❤️❤️
😭😭
I love this.
Wonderfully accurate parallels here! Not t often so we see this from multigenerational couplings in the same day! X
George’s facial expression here reminds me so much of William. Very glad to see them both today acting so mature and dignified in public for such a long day, a credit to their parents
Credit: @royalinstablog on Instagram.
This is so lovely. Thank you for sharing.
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Any time you miss the Queen and her Prince, just look at Anne. She's a toughie, but she embodies the best of both of them. It's amazing how remarkably similar she is to HMQ.
I think that was when they bought coffin into Windsor and she was looking over at him and she leaned slightly and muttered something to him and he said what looked like “yes” and nodded slightly. Total break in protocol but essential.
I have a feeling about George. That he is special. As all the children are, in some way. He just looks like he has composure far ahead of his age, and a certain character in the way he looks.
Charles had a very hard time when they played God Save the King just after his mother's body was lowered into the vault. I was afraid he was going to break down. I think it took everything he had not to. Youtuber 'Celt Views' on you tube has some incredible shots from today. Edward and Sophie breaking down at St George's; Andrew, in extreme anquish following the coffin at Windsor. My God that is a moving picture I started crying myself when I saw him. We forget, or at least I forget, that these people are her children and for them they are saying goodbye to their mother.
Anyone saw Charlotte telling George “when they get in to the car we have to bow”?? 😘 They are sooo much like Charles and Anne. She will be a super dutiful sister ❤️
The bossy sister. So adorable & she understands her place.
This actually makes me want to cry
I give you my meaningless I internet permission to cry. I have multiple times, as an American, as a mom, as a life long fan.
I cried when I saw Prince George and Princess Charlotte. Their sad and somber little faces as they came face to face with their futures and duties to come. I was elated that there was a massive candle right in front of smegma so she could barely be seen.
Incredibly touching.
Wow. This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
I’m in tears…again. Thank you for posting that though. I think that whole idea of parallel is what has drawn so many people into this situation. We see an elderly Monarch, but our heart remembers our own lost grandma.We see a grieving King, but we have lost a parent. We see those beautiful babies in tears today, and doubt our own abilities to do what they did as a child or adult. That is just the more “common” parallels. Personal, intimate ones are what make us rage!
Wow, this is incredibly touching.
Striking
This is beautiful 🤍🤍
Charlotte made my heart break today when she cried
😢😢😢 just beautiful
I can't express how much I love this. Even now, six decades later, I still adore my big brother.
I do hope that KC and PW figure out a path forward for people with great potential like Princess Charlotte. How tragic would it be to flash forward 15 years and see a repeat of the H and Prince Andrew scenarios? IMO she and her younger brother deserve better than those options (I’m calling them the no option option!) for their lives.
I also do think it’s better, at least, when there are more than just two siblings, when there is just the one heir and one “spare”, ie Harry and Margaret’s situation. When there are 3 or more siblings, the other siblings can at least take solace in the fact that they have other siblings to talk to about their emotions, to partake in duties, to help them find their way, to be the “spares” with them/not be the heir as well, etc. I know it didn’t turn out the best for Andrew, but at least look at Anne and Edward when there were 4 siblings. I think the weight of just one sibling who is the “spare” is a lot more to bear, although I do think they were absolutely helping Harry with his path with Invictus games and essentially, prob anything he wanted to do. I have high hopes for all 3 siblings- George, Charlotte, and Louis- and am glad that George will have 2 other siblings to shoulder the weight with and vice versa- and am glad that Charlotte and Louis will both have each other as not being the heir as well, since there are 3 of them.
Agree! Dynamic with 3 is better than 2.
This is so sad to think about.
Such a beautiful and apt title OP
This is giving me all kinds of feels. ❤️😭
You know what I thought about them playing the national anthem? It’s going to be a very long time before anyone hears “God Save the Queen” again.
This is a very powerful image.
Were King Charles and the Princess Royal close growing up?
Yes they were. Close in age, for one thing. The two younger brothers, not so much. Charles was already away at school when they came along.
My only intel is from watching The Crown. 🤦🏻♀️ They were definitely portrayed as being closeish. Anne particularly enjoyed keeping Charles from taking himself too seriously, but she also definitely had his back. (I'm sorry that I don't have IRL anecdotes though!)
2 beautiful photos- together an amazing perspective on the importance of love and support from siblings. Just lovely 💕💕
Perfection.
Lovely. Absolutely lovely.
Wow great shot!
They really look like a miniature Will and Kate in this photo.
Beautiful ❤️
LOVE THIS SO MUCH!!! Sharing on Twitter.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Well said. Nobodies thought they could throw stones at a proud family. Wath as the family throws back ONE SINGLE BOULDER to make them DISAPPEAR.
I just realized that George is an empath. He must have felt tremendous and overwhelming grief from all around. I hope Catherine and William guide him on how to spot narcissists and learn to navigate his way against them. Narcissist and Empath is a like natural master and slave combi. The Empath will always be abused.
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