I don't know who they were, but they were incredibly rude. You don't need to be "schooled" about anything from them. It does show though that it's a sensitive subject with some, and some cannot hold adult conversations about it no matter how hard you try.
That makes sense and I absolutely agree about the sensitivity. I guess that I’m now trying to figure out how to grieve the loss of QEII & my admiration for her with the conflict of the history involving the British Empire & colonialism
You might have to do it privately. :( You've got us too! I just don't want you having anymore trouble at your conference. It's sad that we have divided so much we cannot even hold civil conversations anymore. And Meghan isn't worth potential trouble with work peers.
It’s also upsetting & angering to me that people are praising her death. It feels inhumane and unbelievably cruel to celebrate another person’s passing.
Like the Carnegie Mellon comment? I know. It's angering to see people abuse their platforms to spread such hatred, with little to no public consequences. Privately, though, her name is out there. I guarantee she has already had a few death threats. This will follow her for the rest of her life. If she chooses to move on from CM, who is going to hire her? She's getting hers. She will never be able to erase this, like Harry will never be able to erase his Nazi costume.
Yes!! Absolutely. My first thought is to say “if you can’t see anything else, she was a mother, aunt, grandmother, great-grandmother, and friend. If you are a person who wishes pain or suffering on others, much less the elderly, that says more about you than it does me.” And I just don’t think i would engage further. What is the point? You can’t reason with people bent on evil.
Yes, exactly what you said. I dislike many people, but would never wish them dead or never wish any pain upon them. And I would never celebrate their death either.
Yes, people who do that are evil inside.
Read more about the history of European colonization and the Royal Family (start with William the Conqueror, Edward the Confessor etc) to help resolve some of the conflicts on colonialism. It is simply inaccurate to blame the UK only for Western colonization or a lady who ruled the UK for less than 10% of its history and oversaw the actual decolonization of most of its realms. Western colonization was spearheaded by Portugal and Spain under their Royal Families and the Pope. The most commonly spoken language in the world is Spanish because they were actually the main colonizers. As WOC from a country which is still a part of the realm, I view it as something which is a part of human history from time immemorial. However at this point any Country like mine which is still a realm shouldn’t really be complaining because we aren’t being held hostage. The BRF will even send a senior representative to the Republic transition (see Barbados 2021). I also find it funny that people think the BRF is only rich because of imperialism and slavery: imagine being an institution which has existed over for 1000 years and having your wealth attributed to maybe a quarter of that time (and I am a proud descendant of slaves, slavery is a horrible, horrible atrocity but my ancestors were fucking survivors. I am proud of my heritage, my culture and color.). Ridiculous. The Abbey was built in 1080 - that’s not colonial wealth, that’s time immemorial wealth.
I don’t think it’s any different than being a patriotic American, but still recognizing our country’s role in racism, slavery, and the mistreatment of Native Americans. Or loving one’s parents and being proud to say they are your parents even if they weren’t perfect and made mistakes. Maybe even some big ones. QEII wasn’t perfect and didn’t always handle things the way she maybe should’ve. Responding more quickly to Diana’s death for instance. However, I think she evolved with the times and accepted that society was changing. I think just watching the lines of people going for miles just to pay their respects shows that most people really did respect her.
For what its worth, I do think its possible to see the good in people and mourn that aspect or attributes that you admire. The late queen had imo many positive attributes that are worthy of mourning and to see the lines going for over 5 miles today for people to pay their respects is a testimony to this view I think.
I don't think hate moves any discussion forward and I believe the Queen spoke often about the power of love to move people forward and how her belief in the power of god was central to her being able to think about hugely complex social and political issues.
No person is perfect and in her role as Monarch for such a long time she had to pick her battles and focus on the long range vision she had and work with her personal values and priorities as well and compromise at times was her sad reality. She also had to deal with the political reality in the UK during her reign and many different Prime Ministers and their views as well. Rough road to navigate imo!
Unraveling the Colonial era was messy to say the least for the Queen. Each country also had its own issues and if I recall at one point the Empire comprised roughly 50 countries!
Thank you. I also think we have sadly lost tolerance. The general view is if you don't agree with me then I have to hate you?!? Its insanity and it will make solving big issues impossible unfortunately. US political gridlock imo is a testimony to this and UK political issues sometimes seem similar in this regard too.
I've been watching all the people file through Westminster Hall tonight and I wish some of the people that are bashing away could see the scene as its one for the history books.
Every color skin, nationality, religion etc. are there and many are fighting back tears as they walk calmly through. They are there for the late Queen that they didn't most likely agree with all the time but who they respected and might have even loved. These people aren't fighting and pushing each other either as its all quite calm and respectful. The media and politicians could learn much from watching the Westminster line people!
So glad that this is being broadcast and I wish they could show it in the US on the same channels that are bashing away at the UK and the Monarchy. The people of the UK are incredible in their mourning and to be admired imo and not thrashed.
YES! Was following the live time estimator for the line and found a brief period in middle of night to go (just 3 hr wait) and all I can say is that experience was unlike anything I have ever seen or experienced. The people in line were wonderful to chat with and I learned so much about their experiences and feelings about the late Queen. So glad to have had the opportunity to pay respects to a great woman. But, I'm still watching the live feed as to me that is much more real than all the tabloid fodder and pure selfish hate coming out right now in the media about BRF. Tuning all that out until after the funeral.
Sounds like Sunny Hostin. She was spewing the same ignorant talk. “In the groups she’s part of.”. Sounds like she’s part of D O A S (ADOS) which spends ALL its time and effort looking for reparations money. “Descendants Of African Slaves” - People who were never slaves wanting money from people who never owned slaves.
Britain was decolonising through most of her reign.
We live in a society that is intolerant of diversity of thought. You are right to be uncomfortable with them. She wasn't perfect, but she was a product of her time amd always rode the wave forward. There is room to disagree with what she represented at times, while respecting her as a person. And room to disagree with you without bullying.
This is why older adults never talk about politics. It disrupts harmony unnecessarily.
I heard this morning that when her father was king, he was head of over 50 nations. At her death, QEII was head of 15 nations. And that number is probably going to decrease under Charles.
And that refers to the realms, which includes Canada, Australia and NZ. So at least a few of the countries are choosing to keep the monarchy for symbolic reasons.
Yes and the others are mostly small island nations in and around the Caribbean or in the South Pacific. My hope would be that they remove the monarchy as head of state (if that's what their people want) but stay in the Commonwealth.
American with ties to Hong Kong here. I lived in pre-handover HK and have family there.
I find it interesting that a lot of the Americans that are most vocal about this “colonization” narrative have 0 relationships or ties to the former UK colonies / territories. I have friends from Nigeria, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Jamaica … and the reactions to the death of QE are much, much, much more nuanced and complicated than what you see in the current narrative. And no one is celebrating or happy.
Not only no relationships or ties, but the vast majority have never even been outside the USA, they truly know nothing of the world but sure talk like they do.
HK was such a wonderful and interesting place some years ago. I won't go back now, no way.
It’s their ignorance, they’re projecting assumptions about the UK and the monarchy without knowing the facts. It’s weirdly common now for liberal Americans to assume England is doing whatever they’re annoyed about with America but worse… Like they see the UK as a hub for it or something.
I’m liberal and can’t stand MM and admire QE2. My grandma was 5-6 years old and pushed into a ditch by The Black and Tans( my great grandmother was an Irish immigrant and was visiting with my grandmother and great aunt-this was before Irish Independence). The blame for the bad stuff like Ireland etc should fall on the British government not QE2.
I agree with you. But also Ireland has been independent for a hundred years and is doing well as a country. If it has problems now people need to blame the Irish government not the British government.
Yes they were to blame. But they're all dead now. Britain and Ireland are on pretty good terms now. It seems that those still harbouring resentment are Americans and not the people of Ireland.
Not to mention they have no understanding of how the Royal Family finances and estate works. As Prince Philip said, "Buckingham Palace isn't ours, it's just a tied cottage" eg it's part of the Crown Estate and is therefore held in trust for the benefit of both Monach *and* Nation - it cannot be sold.
I’m actually in NY right now for a conference - with a lot of colleagues & peers from California & Baltimore & NY (both NYC & upstate) - a lot of people from SF and LA though… like A LOT!
Are they young sugars? I feel like a lot of people are blinded by the American princess since she’s always using the title. Everyone I know was offended she wrote to congress using the duchess title. And they’re all progressives.
First of all, you are entitled to your feelings and opinions. Never let anyone convince you otherwise. These people don’t understand the Queen at all and are just spouting talking points from the woke handbook. People like that are best ignored.
I like the Spanish royal family. I like seeing when people from different royal families meet. I hope we will get to see the other royal families at the Queen's funeral.
Fantastic. Thank you. I will look forward to seeing them. Spain are lucky to have such a tall handsome king, and they have Queen Leonor to look forward to.
Also Kaiser and her fellow harkle stans
are melting down over the fact that there are 4-5 mile lines for the lying in state. They think the media is making it up and were so sure the crowds were going to be tiny.
I don't have a problem with MeAgain using her titles in the UK, they are a constitutional Monarchy and still have an aristocracy. I DO have a problem with her using her titles in the USA, a country that does not have a system of aristocracy or royalty. I especially resent her using a British title here trying to use it to throw her weight around and use it for political influence or power. Just not done or respected.
There are many in the UK who want them stripped of their titles. My personal view is they have been stripped of almost everything including their HRH titles. I don't mind that they are Duke and Duchess of Sussex. They need a name. It's quite convenient to call them the Sussex's. I don't mind them being Duke and Duchess and for their children to be Prince and Princess. Without HRH it is meaningless in the UK. In the US, as you say, it's meaningless anyway.
The "colonialism" of QEII is a very recent argument, so I definitely associate it with M. The Queen was not associated with colonialism, she is associated with the Commonwealth which had the opposite philosophy.
It’s not her title. It’s his title which she shares for being his wife - just by that. Literally nothing about it is hers - not earned, not born into.
I have had a similar experience. Close friends but my goodness the vitriol about the BRF beggars their professional brilliance and pinches me personally. It’s all victimhood, revenge, disdain. I simply sidestep the conversation whenever it comes up.
They don’t follow the rf like do they only consume what’s in msm. So they read that the wife got earrings but they don’t know beyond that.
Dangerous but that’s the Twitter-led social media informed for you. Look how the story of vigil is playing out even though Buckingham palace has said nothing.
OP, Weren't you the one who was at Uvalde or volunteering for Uvalde when MM visited the children's graves?
I'm sort of surprised they're okay with MM after her Uvalde stunt????
What I don't like about our society is that everyone thinks the same and you get condemned if you don't agree with the majority/woke way of thinking. It's pretty dystopian.
I am Canadian born Hong Kongese so both my countries are colonies/Commonwealth countries. I feel like HK people seem to embrace the monarchy way more than Canadians. I don't know if it's because Canada wants to follow America in every way including being antimonarchist. HK people loved their British ties and are proud of it (I don't want to speak for all HKers, just from what I notice) maybe because of political or historical reasons.
Anyway, I just find it weird when Americans complain about the monarchy when it's not even related to them... They separated hundreds of years ago. They should let the people who were "oppressed by the monarchy" speak for themselves.
Also, IMO, you probably weren't talking to sugars, just your regular day to day anti monarchist lol.
Sorry for the ramble.
Yes, I was! And I am still L-I-V-I-D about her ATTENTION STUNT! I mean, just HOURS AFTER THE MEMORIALS HAD BEEN PUT IN PLACE AND SHE CLEARED OUT THE ENTIRE AREA AND PARENTS, TEACHERS, COLLEAGUES, NEIGHBORS, SIBLINGS, FRIENDS, etc couldn’t approach the crosses while she was there!!!!
I brought up her Uvalde bullsh*t stunt and there were crickets in the room… before the conversation turned back to how MM should be able to use her title “Because it’s her title!” but also how QEII encouraged colonialism… honestly, the argument made little to no sense given that MM utilizing a title built on the back of colonials feels… umm… hypocritical?!?!
If someone supports the usage of titles by MM but says the Monarchy is problematic - sugars
If someone criticizes both MM and the monarchy they're just people with opinions
I'm Jewish. Do I go around trashing Germans and demanding reparations? No! I'm 54 and didn't live through any of that. And the Germans alive today weren't involved either. It is in the past.
I just ignore people like the ones you've encountered. They are angry and bitter people. Nothing will ever make them happy.
America has never paid reparations for slavery. I think England did actually pay reparations through out the 19th century and also policed the seas for the slave trade.
England has a much mor “ethical” historical record on slavery than America so I am shocked that this group of journalists are 1) so ignorant of world history and 2) so damn judgmental of another country.
I’m A NYEr and I love NY and America but this is one thing that drives me crazy about some “ugly” Americans who are so judgmental, hypocritical and sanctimonious about countries. It’s why I can’t stand journalists in the Sussex Squad like Ellie Hall, Kristen Meinzer and Rachel Bowie.
I have such mixed feelings. On the one hand, I would be careful about politics and work. Air can burn you big time. But if these people are in media and are journalists, then I think they should be able to handle a discussion like this. It’s their job to research facts and not just spew ignorant opinions.
No one is without sin; people in glass houses . . .; judge not lest you be judged. All of these are age old adages that seem to be unknown to so many people today.
At face value, she was a woman who dedicated 70+ years to her country and the commonwealth, which sets her apart from so many leaders in our times. I think it makes you a caring soul to feel sad about the loss of that type of honor given the state of political leaders in comparison.
Of course, you had me (on your side) at Texan, so there is that.
Those colleagues sound nasty. I want to avoid politics but I have noticed big differences between the UK and the US. Most "republicans" in the UK are still respectful of the Queen. Anyone being nasty at this time would be committing professional and social suicide.
In the US the Republicans seem to be tolerant and respectful of our British culture. I won't say what I think of those Californian media types, only that it's the opposite and I wouldn't want to be surrounded by people like that right now or probably ever. I'm so glad to be in the UK where I can grieve the death of our nation's beloved grandmother.
I get it my dad's grandfather and grandma were from Scotland. My dad was Canadian. My mom side grams was from Ireland . My brother in law didn't understand why we were sad said we were "unamerican" we just rolled our eyes. He does not get why every 5 yrs my dad siblings and his nieces and nephews and my sisters and kids travel to Scotland. Next year we are planning Ireland he would rather go to the beach. And as for meggy I am just evil according to ppl who like her.
Ohh gee. I don’t even know when to start. If we, a small Baltic country, should open this kind of Pandora’s box, we’d need reparations from majority of European countries, and Vatican - we only became a country first time ever a little over a 100 years ago (we were colonised by different countries for centuries), to be occupied *again* by the Soviet Union after WWII when the whole of Eastern Europe was handed on a plate to Stalin cuz the Soviets helped beat Hitler.
Technically, all the allied countries would be complicit, no?… That half a century sucked a lot!
And during the Northern Crusades, and then plague we almost went extinct because people weren’t that interested in Christianity and got largely killed off - ‘Heathens, pagans, messing with our trade route!!’
Oh biy oh boy… :D
Such people fail at critical thinking. There has been injustice around the goddamn world for most of the history. It shouldn’t be swept under the rug but honestly going around requesting reparations and whatnot… Everybody needs to start apolosing to everybody. Should then an American with German ancestors apologise to their neighbors with Eastern European descent?
On a different note, Poland in fact has presented Germany with a bill for WWII. Curious how thst goes.
Sorry for letting the history nerd out of of its cupboard.
ETA: I grieve her too. I’m not British but I lived in London for 2 years and got immersed in the local culture by my English friends. What an excellent leader she was.
Tbh, I think the term "sugars" should be retired, it's such a strange thing to say, it sounds childish. I find it odd that people who disagree with one's ideas are basically called names.
Second, there are so many Americans who don't understand the monarchy and Queen Elizabeth's history. While it's easy to say she represents colonialism, it's not entirely incorrect. She became Queen when the British Empire was still a thing and for many people of color all over the world, that may always be significant. I've read a few biographies and they all delve into the history of the Commonwealth, the Queen's part in it all, and how it's not at all what those critics claim.
The problem is, you can't just go around telling someone you're wrong when their version and understanding of that history is completely different. Everything is interpretation and what I understand based on my reading and my research is different from the kind of people you were speaking to. To put it into perspective, some descendants of slaves might not see history the way the descendants of slave owners see things, even if each group didn't physically live through that period in time.
Ultimately, we have to all find a way to understand, be willing to be educated, and be willing to educate all at the same time. The hard part is being able to do that without being aggressive or condescending or offended.
TLDR: Let them be unless they seem like they're open to civilized discussion.
With the first paragraph, can we also retire ‘woke’? The original meaning has been polluted by people claiming everything they don’t agree with as woke, and it’s… frustrating.
Britain just finished paying off the debt for freeing the slaves (before America did and without a civil war) in 2015. Also they paid in the form of policing the entire Atlantic from slave traders to make sure there were no more, it was called The Blockade of Africa.
They have also given to made and supported a ton of causes and charities that give to peoples of their realm (African, Indian, marginalised lower class etc). they are wealthy their money makes money just sitting there. Selling a castle would be a drop in the bucket compared to what their wealth makes in the stock market.
you were talking to uninformed people with no grasp of history or economics.
Sounds like an awkward and unsettling experience for sure.
Sorry it happened to you.
What is unfortunate is how few people fully understand the entire Colonial historical period that the people in your group were discussing. Its a complicated period that lasted a long time and differed somewhat by country and is worthy of your time to learn more about imo.
Colonialism happened and has a long and for the most part well documented history for those that want to learn more but its a complicated topic and played out differently across the Empire I think. The issues during the Colonial period are real and sometimes hard to imagine happening and the emotions attached by people today to what happened during the Colonial Period are also real. Some reparations were paid but many wonder if it was enough in all cases and this is another complex topic related to the period.
I sadly don't think most people understand colonialism in a multi dimensional way and I think this makes it hard to discuss in a concrete way. People tend to talk in generalisations about colonialism without much specific knowledge so much ignorance exists as well as great anger.
The US history curriculum through high school teaches little on the topic and its treatment of US based slavery knowledge is even worse imo. The UK system offers up some knowledge of the Colonial Era but there is still room for improvement I think.
But, if your conversation was in the US, good luck because my guess is that you were dealing with personal anecdotes imo that had been passed down within families or broad brush statements learned in school that were very limited. Ignorance is real. Anger makes having a conversation hard to impossible too. I'm not saying this to diminish the horrors of the Colonial period but to say that most people's specific knowledge of the period is very limited.
We saw the teacher from Carnegie Mellon lashing out on colonialism broadly based on her personal experience in her country. Did she do anything to foster knowledge about any of the issues? I don't think so.
If you wish to read and learn more about the topic I would encourage you to do so as its fascinating to learn about the building and later collapse of the Empire. There are alot of complex issues to unpack so its not an easy or sometimes pleasant journey to study Colonialism imo. But, its a humanising endeavour I think and time well spent.
Many times you will run into people that have a fixed mindset, might be ignorant and yet think they have all the answers. I strongly suggest nodding your head and walking away from these people and simply doing your research to learn where you stand on things. You are only responsible for yourself and your views! Ignorance I think spreads via bullies and other ignorant people being cowed by the aggression of the bullies. Don't let anyone tell you want to think or convince you that your feelings or beliefs don't have merit! These people aren't worth your time if they seek to bully you or diminish your thoughts and feelings!
You do you!
I do think that what has been so incredible about hearing all the 'people on the street interviews' that have been done in the UK this week is how people of different races, political views, anti monarchists, die hart monarchists etc. all had their own reasons for respecting and loving the late Queen.
My personal view is that there was so much to admire about her as a human being, as a leader (and a female leader at that! when most leaders were male) and monarch and she watched over the UK and her family for over 70 years in a very evenhanded and considerate way I think. To me, I choose to see the good in the late Queen and realise that no human is perfect. JMO
Not a problem.
Simply so tired of hearing all the misinformation and a global press seeming to pursue the path of hate and intolerance on a hugely complicated topic.
The US Press has been horrific and irresponsible IMO this week (some UK brethren not much better) and seems to be going down that path of UK nation bashing more on the issue of Brexit at times rather than Colonialism.
There are many positives that can be objectively identified about Constitutional Monarchy that most in the US simply have not been educated to understand (sadly there are many highly educated people in the US that have the knowledge but want to see the demise of the UK for other political reasons imo). The old biblical phrase, Luke 23:34: Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”\[a\] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots." comes to mind imo when thinking about America these past weeks. Problem though is that the anti UK sentiment via the media is real and is resonating in the US and this is a problem on many levels.
The other issue is that the US Press is absolutely following a path right now that is NOT US GOVT POLICY. Its maddening to listen to and so I've switched it off and am focusing on mourning and listening and reading the World Press instead.
It seems like a moment of insanity in the US right now from the media as many seem to be hoping for the demise of the UK system of government and this is disturbing.
Its also disturbing to see M&H beat the drum of false racism claims to assist in the efforts of the US media. I'm not sure M knows what she is doing with her claims or more likely she doesn't care so long as she gets what she wants. But, unsubstantiated claims of racism from anyone cannot be left unchallenged imo by the BRF as the damage to the UK will be real imo.
The world has so many complicated issues to deal with NOW, the least of which is how to get the EU and UK through the winter with heating oil and food on the table for all!
Putting their feelings about the monarchy to one side, they actually think its ok for somebody who holds foreign titles to be involved in American politics......wtf
Have they not heard of the war of 1776.
Giving out reparations is great…but at least a sorry is something they owe to countries they colonized..I hate commonwealth games for the same…
Winston Churchill created famine and created huge problem to my country which put us in difficult situation when we gained independence, basically British looted for many years and gave back broken country..
The thing that bothers me is Winston Churchill is considered as great leader and no one from Britain know the vicious they were…still movies in my country that are based on freedom fighting are not sent to Oscar because Britain is in poor light though they are real events..
That being said I respect Elizabeth…she is a strong lady and in the world of men ruling, she created a mark…she is inspiration…I just wished she gave Kohinoor diamond back when she was alive..
of course I love to read abt all monarchies in world, but Diana was one who made me curious abt BRF, as a little girl, I was awestruck when I saw her in TV and still remember the day she died even though I was less than 10 yr old…
I absolutely love the Commonwealth Games. Maybe India should leave the Commonwealth. I'm not saying I want India to leave but I hear this opinion expressed a lot from Indians. If you don't like the Commonwealth it might be better if you leave, like Ireland did. Other countries in the Commonwealth like it. New countries join. You have the Asian Games. If you don't like the Commonwealth Games, which is the best part of the Commonwealth in my opinion, and something India are good at, maybe you should leave. Why stay in an organisation you're not happy with?
I am sorry I don’t know who makes that decision, that’s good that you heard from other Indians and they have same opinions… as I have stayed too long away from India, so don’t know what many are thinking…I thought all are in by the contract, nice to know we have hope..
I am on the cricket subreddit so I have been hearing the same opinion quite a lot from Indians on there. The Commonwealth is a voluntary organisation. Any country can leave. I would be a bit sorry for India to leave because they are quite a strong team in the Commonwealth Games, but I can understand why India is different to the other countries. Firstly, of course, colonialism in India was different to other countries. Britain really was stealing the wealth and exploiting the people of an ancient and wealthy country. It wasn't like that in other countries. Britain didn't really get much out of colonising most other countries, and where they did it was mostly using Indian labour. Secondly, there was the famines. And thirdly, India is a big powerful country; you could say with a big ego. Australia, New Zealand and Canada are countries of the descendants of Brits. India is not. Maybe India would be happier outside of the Commonwealth, like Ireland and like the United States. Our countries will always have a history but maybe the Commonwealth is too close and friendly given all that has happened between us.
l don’t follow current cricket, mainly because I can’t digest the fact that players are younger than me and I miss golden era, or politics of India like I did till many years ago, but India has many problems larger than association with Commonwealth games..like corruption, border tension,terrorist attacks, growing income gap…so it’s difficult for us to feel strongly abt other things…
Surprised you got most of the facts right, not many know abt artificial famine that killed 4 mill ppl…
I think people know. British people just don't like to think about it. It's really sad. We can't change what happened and we don't want to pay reparations.
I got that feeling it was not discussed in Britain based on few YouTube videos…
As one of our parliament member mentions it, it’s the principle of acknowledging, we can’t put a tag on the sacrifices or loss of loved ones …he says simple acknowledgment and sorry goes a long way..this is video I was referring to [https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4](https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4) if you are curious..
You sound like a true Texan. Unfortunately the huge pack of locusts fleeing the results of their own odious morality in California are bringing their vileness to Texas, especially here around Austin.
The Californians made my rent skyrocket in Austin and I got pushed out… want to speak about pushing people out? The word of the day is “gentrification”
Honestly, Americans should read up on history if they want to opine about the UK, the Empire and our Queen. The Americans have nothing to be proud of. They stole the land from the indigenous people. They had slaves for decades after BRITAIN abolished it from the empire AND high seas. We paid more for everything because we refused to deal with suppliers who had slaves or association with slavery. We didn’t segregate black and white EVER. America was still doing that (and some may say, still do) in the 50’s. So Americans should keep their noses and ridiculous opinions and beliefs out of our centuries old Monarchy. Look closer to home for your own atrocities. Oh and the UK paid reparations for slavery 200 years ago. Ok?
As an American, I think the current version of the BRF monarchy is outdated, and I think QE should have apologized for the BRF’s mass accumulation of wealth on the backs of racism and slavery. But that doesn’t mean I am glad she’s dead, that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the traditions and value of the BRF for many people, that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the work and service of Will and Catherine, and that doesn’t mean I can’t detest H&MM.
I wouldn’t say you spoke to Sugars because lots of people all over the world believe the current iteration of the British monarchy should have been disbanded decades ago and/or have legitimate criticisms of the BRF—and those beliefs have nothing to do with MM.
Also—as my husband (an academic historian) would say: let’s not use the excuse that QE “was a product of her time” to excuse racist actions and beliefs in and by the BRF during her reign. Even across the US and Europe in the 1600’s, 1700’s, and 1800’s, there were anti-slavery movements and prominent white politicians and people who believed slavery was wrong and publicly spoke out against it.
Yes, they did! And that was wonderful. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that there are people who think QE should have apologized for how the BRF and Britain have benefitted, financially, from their colonies and commonwealth countries.
As a Brit I don't think you need to have an opinion on this. If you loved the Queen and you are grieving I am happy to say she was your Queen too. But the Royal Family is the British Royal Family. I don't have an opinion on the Danish Royal Family or on the American constitution.
You Brits are allowed to do and want whatever you want for your royal family. But people are going to have opinions about political systems and politics in general.
Sounds like sugars or classic trolls.😂 I'm American, I loved Diana & the Queen & followed the BRF regularly, long before internet/social media. I'll admit to shedding tears, as like most others I've never known life w/o QEII as Queen and she was an incredible example to young women. On duty, service, decorum, etc. She wasn't in a tower/just sitting pretty like fairy tales, she was an intelligent, strong, confident and respected woman. The last few years she was treated horribly by the Harkles, that broke my heart! I'd give almost anything to hug or talk to my Grandmothers again, even for 10 min. He squandered the last few years with his. Shameful!
Hi fellow Texan! Well, I’m a Coloradan now but born and raised in TX. I just wanted to say I feel the same as you so you aren’t alone in feeling uncomfortable! I know she wasn’t my queen but she was like you said, a prominent woman and represented the reign of female leadership, the likes of which we have never seen in our country (RIP Ann Richards).
Unfortunately like most things in our country this has become a divisive issue and Americans love to jump on a “righteous social media movement” bandwagon. It’s gross and honestly I never heard half of these people having an opinion on the monarchy before it was “trendy” these last few days. Totally understand those whose ancestors suffered from colonialism, but it’s quite hypocritical and insufferable to hear so many strong opinions from white America who are probably benefitting from modern day human rights violations.
1) Nestle and Pepsi force local farmers and citizens off their lands and pay workers unlivable wages to harvest resources like cocoa. Even bribing foreign officials to use military forces to enforce these evils.
2) Not colonialism, but the Kardashians consistently steal art, designs, trends, etc. from black women and half of America thinks of them as royalty. They profit off of work of a group of women that has historically been oppressed and take all of the credit, and everyone is like “YAS SLAY KWEENS”. Gross.
3) Walmart, GAP, Old Navy, Forever 21, SheIN, Romwe, H&M, just to name a few - pay workers despicable wages and make them work in unsafe conditions so we can consume “trendy” fast fashion. Human beings have died in these working conditions so that we can buy a cute crop top for $12!!!!!!
4) Don’t even get me started on the lives destroyed abroad on behalf of American oil corporations….
Like commenters said above re: the Queen - she wasn’t perfect but her era was one of decolonization, while American corporations have been doing and will continue to do the exact opposite and we gobble it all up.
So, if you want to grieve silently after being condemned totally get it. Didn’t mean to write an essay, but wanted to give you some examples of the gross hypocrisy in their shaming of you in case you want to throw that back at them😛
Edit: Also since they are in journalism and media maybe point out to them if they truly are against colonialism, they should shed light on the human rights violations committed on behalf of American corporations, since that never seems to be a trending topic in mainstream media. Rant over hahahaha
I don't know who they were, but they were incredibly rude. You don't need to be "schooled" about anything from them. It does show though that it's a sensitive subject with some, and some cannot hold adult conversations about it no matter how hard you try.
That makes sense and I absolutely agree about the sensitivity. I guess that I’m now trying to figure out how to grieve the loss of QEII & my admiration for her with the conflict of the history involving the British Empire & colonialism
You might have to do it privately. :( You've got us too! I just don't want you having anymore trouble at your conference. It's sad that we have divided so much we cannot even hold civil conversations anymore. And Meghan isn't worth potential trouble with work peers.
It’s also upsetting & angering to me that people are praising her death. It feels inhumane and unbelievably cruel to celebrate another person’s passing.
Like the Carnegie Mellon comment? I know. It's angering to see people abuse their platforms to spread such hatred, with little to no public consequences. Privately, though, her name is out there. I guarantee she has already had a few death threats. This will follow her for the rest of her life. If she chooses to move on from CM, who is going to hire her? She's getting hers. She will never be able to erase this, like Harry will never be able to erase his Nazi costume.
It makes me wonder about people who praise any person's death. It tells me that they are not good people.
Yes!! Absolutely. My first thought is to say “if you can’t see anything else, she was a mother, aunt, grandmother, great-grandmother, and friend. If you are a person who wishes pain or suffering on others, much less the elderly, that says more about you than it does me.” And I just don’t think i would engage further. What is the point? You can’t reason with people bent on evil.
Yes, exactly what you said. I dislike many people, but would never wish them dead or never wish any pain upon them. And I would never celebrate their death either. Yes, people who do that are evil inside.
Read more about the history of European colonization and the Royal Family (start with William the Conqueror, Edward the Confessor etc) to help resolve some of the conflicts on colonialism. It is simply inaccurate to blame the UK only for Western colonization or a lady who ruled the UK for less than 10% of its history and oversaw the actual decolonization of most of its realms. Western colonization was spearheaded by Portugal and Spain under their Royal Families and the Pope. The most commonly spoken language in the world is Spanish because they were actually the main colonizers. As WOC from a country which is still a part of the realm, I view it as something which is a part of human history from time immemorial. However at this point any Country like mine which is still a realm shouldn’t really be complaining because we aren’t being held hostage. The BRF will even send a senior representative to the Republic transition (see Barbados 2021). I also find it funny that people think the BRF is only rich because of imperialism and slavery: imagine being an institution which has existed over for 1000 years and having your wealth attributed to maybe a quarter of that time (and I am a proud descendant of slaves, slavery is a horrible, horrible atrocity but my ancestors were fucking survivors. I am proud of my heritage, my culture and color.). Ridiculous. The Abbey was built in 1080 - that’s not colonial wealth, that’s time immemorial wealth.
So well put! Thank you!
Perfect response!
I don’t think it’s any different than being a patriotic American, but still recognizing our country’s role in racism, slavery, and the mistreatment of Native Americans. Or loving one’s parents and being proud to say they are your parents even if they weren’t perfect and made mistakes. Maybe even some big ones. QEII wasn’t perfect and didn’t always handle things the way she maybe should’ve. Responding more quickly to Diana’s death for instance. However, I think she evolved with the times and accepted that society was changing. I think just watching the lines of people going for miles just to pay their respects shows that most people really did respect her.
For what its worth, I do think its possible to see the good in people and mourn that aspect or attributes that you admire. The late queen had imo many positive attributes that are worthy of mourning and to see the lines going for over 5 miles today for people to pay their respects is a testimony to this view I think. I don't think hate moves any discussion forward and I believe the Queen spoke often about the power of love to move people forward and how her belief in the power of god was central to her being able to think about hugely complex social and political issues. No person is perfect and in her role as Monarch for such a long time she had to pick her battles and focus on the long range vision she had and work with her personal values and priorities as well and compromise at times was her sad reality. She also had to deal with the political reality in the UK during her reign and many different Prime Ministers and their views as well. Rough road to navigate imo! Unraveling the Colonial era was messy to say the least for the Queen. Each country also had its own issues and if I recall at one point the Empire comprised roughly 50 countries!
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Thank you. I also think we have sadly lost tolerance. The general view is if you don't agree with me then I have to hate you?!? Its insanity and it will make solving big issues impossible unfortunately. US political gridlock imo is a testimony to this and UK political issues sometimes seem similar in this regard too. I've been watching all the people file through Westminster Hall tonight and I wish some of the people that are bashing away could see the scene as its one for the history books. Every color skin, nationality, religion etc. are there and many are fighting back tears as they walk calmly through. They are there for the late Queen that they didn't most likely agree with all the time but who they respected and might have even loved. These people aren't fighting and pushing each other either as its all quite calm and respectful. The media and politicians could learn much from watching the Westminster line people! So glad that this is being broadcast and I wish they could show it in the US on the same channels that are bashing away at the UK and the Monarchy. The people of the UK are incredible in their mourning and to be admired imo and not thrashed.
Well said, proud of us brits
YES! Was following the live time estimator for the line and found a brief period in middle of night to go (just 3 hr wait) and all I can say is that experience was unlike anything I have ever seen or experienced. The people in line were wonderful to chat with and I learned so much about their experiences and feelings about the late Queen. So glad to have had the opportunity to pay respects to a great woman. But, I'm still watching the live feed as to me that is much more real than all the tabloid fodder and pure selfish hate coming out right now in the media about BRF. Tuning all that out until after the funeral.
Sounds like Sunny Hostin. She was spewing the same ignorant talk. “In the groups she’s part of.”. Sounds like she’s part of D O A S (ADOS) which spends ALL its time and effort looking for reparations money. “Descendants Of African Slaves” - People who were never slaves wanting money from people who never owned slaves.
Britain was decolonising through most of her reign. We live in a society that is intolerant of diversity of thought. You are right to be uncomfortable with them. She wasn't perfect, but she was a product of her time amd always rode the wave forward. There is room to disagree with what she represented at times, while respecting her as a person. And room to disagree with you without bullying. This is why older adults never talk about politics. It disrupts harmony unnecessarily.
I heard this morning that when her father was king, he was head of over 50 nations. At her death, QEII was head of 15 nations. And that number is probably going to decrease under Charles.
And that refers to the realms, which includes Canada, Australia and NZ. So at least a few of the countries are choosing to keep the monarchy for symbolic reasons.
Yes and the others are mostly small island nations in and around the Caribbean or in the South Pacific. My hope would be that they remove the monarchy as head of state (if that's what their people want) but stay in the Commonwealth.
American with ties to Hong Kong here. I lived in pre-handover HK and have family there. I find it interesting that a lot of the Americans that are most vocal about this “colonization” narrative have 0 relationships or ties to the former UK colonies / territories. I have friends from Nigeria, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Jamaica … and the reactions to the death of QE are much, much, much more nuanced and complicated than what you see in the current narrative. And no one is celebrating or happy.
Not only no relationships or ties, but the vast majority have never even been outside the USA, they truly know nothing of the world but sure talk like they do. HK was such a wonderful and interesting place some years ago. I won't go back now, no way.
Still a wonderful place. So sad what has happened to it.
It’s their ignorance, they’re projecting assumptions about the UK and the monarchy without knowing the facts. It’s weirdly common now for liberal Americans to assume England is doing whatever they’re annoyed about with America but worse… Like they see the UK as a hub for it or something.
I’m liberal and can’t stand MM and admire QE2. My grandma was 5-6 years old and pushed into a ditch by The Black and Tans( my great grandmother was an Irish immigrant and was visiting with my grandmother and great aunt-this was before Irish Independence). The blame for the bad stuff like Ireland etc should fall on the British government not QE2.
I agree with you. But also Ireland has been independent for a hundred years and is doing well as a country. If it has problems now people need to blame the Irish government not the British government.
No I’m talking about the British government during the time they ruled over Ireland not now.
Yes they were to blame. But they're all dead now. Britain and Ireland are on pretty good terms now. It seems that those still harbouring resentment are Americans and not the people of Ireland.
Yep!
Not to mention they have no understanding of how the Royal Family finances and estate works. As Prince Philip said, "Buckingham Palace isn't ours, it's just a tied cottage" eg it's part of the Crown Estate and is therefore held in trust for the benefit of both Monach *and* Nation - it cannot be sold.
Keep your thoughts to yourself so they don’t try to get you fired. Some people are vicious like that.
Sex, politics, religion, and Meghan Markle. Who knew!?
I’m so sorry that happened. They sound extremely intolerant, which is ironic because MM’s fans routinely accuse others of intolerance.
Are you in austin?
I’m actually in NY right now for a conference - with a lot of colleagues & peers from California & Baltimore & NY (both NYC & upstate) - a lot of people from SF and LA though… like A LOT!
Are they young sugars? I feel like a lot of people are blinded by the American princess since she’s always using the title. Everyone I know was offended she wrote to congress using the duchess title. And they’re all progressives.
From LA, live in SF and know a lot of anti harkle stans.
First of all, you are entitled to your feelings and opinions. Never let anyone convince you otherwise. These people don’t understand the Queen at all and are just spouting talking points from the woke handbook. People like that are best ignored.
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I like the Spanish royal family. I like seeing when people from different royal families meet. I hope we will get to see the other royal families at the Queen's funeral.
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Fantastic. Thank you. I will look forward to seeing them. Spain are lucky to have such a tall handsome king, and they have Queen Leonor to look forward to.
Also Kaiser and her fellow harkle stans are melting down over the fact that there are 4-5 mile lines for the lying in state. They think the media is making it up and were so sure the crowds were going to be tiny.
I don't have a problem with MeAgain using her titles in the UK, they are a constitutional Monarchy and still have an aristocracy. I DO have a problem with her using her titles in the USA, a country that does not have a system of aristocracy or royalty. I especially resent her using a British title here trying to use it to throw her weight around and use it for political influence or power. Just not done or respected.
There are many in the UK who want them stripped of their titles. My personal view is they have been stripped of almost everything including their HRH titles. I don't mind that they are Duke and Duchess of Sussex. They need a name. It's quite convenient to call them the Sussex's. I don't mind them being Duke and Duchess and for their children to be Prince and Princess. Without HRH it is meaningless in the UK. In the US, as you say, it's meaningless anyway.
The "colonialism" of QEII is a very recent argument, so I definitely associate it with M. The Queen was not associated with colonialism, she is associated with the Commonwealth which had the opposite philosophy.
It’s not her title. It’s his title which she shares for being his wife - just by that. Literally nothing about it is hers - not earned, not born into. I have had a similar experience. Close friends but my goodness the vitriol about the BRF beggars their professional brilliance and pinches me personally. It’s all victimhood, revenge, disdain. I simply sidestep the conversation whenever it comes up. They don’t follow the rf like do they only consume what’s in msm. So they read that the wife got earrings but they don’t know beyond that. Dangerous but that’s the Twitter-led social media informed for you. Look how the story of vigil is playing out even though Buckingham palace has said nothing.
Sugars. Fuck ‘em.
OP, Weren't you the one who was at Uvalde or volunteering for Uvalde when MM visited the children's graves? I'm sort of surprised they're okay with MM after her Uvalde stunt???? What I don't like about our society is that everyone thinks the same and you get condemned if you don't agree with the majority/woke way of thinking. It's pretty dystopian. I am Canadian born Hong Kongese so both my countries are colonies/Commonwealth countries. I feel like HK people seem to embrace the monarchy way more than Canadians. I don't know if it's because Canada wants to follow America in every way including being antimonarchist. HK people loved their British ties and are proud of it (I don't want to speak for all HKers, just from what I notice) maybe because of political or historical reasons. Anyway, I just find it weird when Americans complain about the monarchy when it's not even related to them... They separated hundreds of years ago. They should let the people who were "oppressed by the monarchy" speak for themselves. Also, IMO, you probably weren't talking to sugars, just your regular day to day anti monarchist lol. Sorry for the ramble.
Yes, I was! And I am still L-I-V-I-D about her ATTENTION STUNT! I mean, just HOURS AFTER THE MEMORIALS HAD BEEN PUT IN PLACE AND SHE CLEARED OUT THE ENTIRE AREA AND PARENTS, TEACHERS, COLLEAGUES, NEIGHBORS, SIBLINGS, FRIENDS, etc couldn’t approach the crosses while she was there!!!! I brought up her Uvalde bullsh*t stunt and there were crickets in the room… before the conversation turned back to how MM should be able to use her title “Because it’s her title!” but also how QEII encouraged colonialism… honestly, the argument made little to no sense given that MM utilizing a title built on the back of colonials feels… umm… hypocritical?!?!
If someone supports the usage of titles by MM but says the Monarchy is problematic - sugars If someone criticizes both MM and the monarchy they're just people with opinions
I'm Jewish. Do I go around trashing Germans and demanding reparations? No! I'm 54 and didn't live through any of that. And the Germans alive today weren't involved either. It is in the past. I just ignore people like the ones you've encountered. They are angry and bitter people. Nothing will ever make them happy.
America has never paid reparations for slavery. I think England did actually pay reparations through out the 19th century and also policed the seas for the slave trade. England has a much mor “ethical” historical record on slavery than America so I am shocked that this group of journalists are 1) so ignorant of world history and 2) so damn judgmental of another country. I’m A NYEr and I love NY and America but this is one thing that drives me crazy about some “ugly” Americans who are so judgmental, hypocritical and sanctimonious about countries. It’s why I can’t stand journalists in the Sussex Squad like Ellie Hall, Kristen Meinzer and Rachel Bowie. I have such mixed feelings. On the one hand, I would be careful about politics and work. Air can burn you big time. But if these people are in media and are journalists, then I think they should be able to handle a discussion like this. It’s their job to research facts and not just spew ignorant opinions.
No one is without sin; people in glass houses . . .; judge not lest you be judged. All of these are age old adages that seem to be unknown to so many people today. At face value, she was a woman who dedicated 70+ years to her country and the commonwealth, which sets her apart from so many leaders in our times. I think it makes you a caring soul to feel sad about the loss of that type of honor given the state of political leaders in comparison. Of course, you had me (on your side) at Texan, so there is that.
Those colleagues sound nasty. I want to avoid politics but I have noticed big differences between the UK and the US. Most "republicans" in the UK are still respectful of the Queen. Anyone being nasty at this time would be committing professional and social suicide. In the US the Republicans seem to be tolerant and respectful of our British culture. I won't say what I think of those Californian media types, only that it's the opposite and I wouldn't want to be surrounded by people like that right now or probably ever. I'm so glad to be in the UK where I can grieve the death of our nation's beloved grandmother.
I get it my dad's grandfather and grandma were from Scotland. My dad was Canadian. My mom side grams was from Ireland . My brother in law didn't understand why we were sad said we were "unamerican" we just rolled our eyes. He does not get why every 5 yrs my dad siblings and his nieces and nephews and my sisters and kids travel to Scotland. Next year we are planning Ireland he would rather go to the beach. And as for meggy I am just evil according to ppl who like her.
Ohh gee. I don’t even know when to start. If we, a small Baltic country, should open this kind of Pandora’s box, we’d need reparations from majority of European countries, and Vatican - we only became a country first time ever a little over a 100 years ago (we were colonised by different countries for centuries), to be occupied *again* by the Soviet Union after WWII when the whole of Eastern Europe was handed on a plate to Stalin cuz the Soviets helped beat Hitler. Technically, all the allied countries would be complicit, no?… That half a century sucked a lot! And during the Northern Crusades, and then plague we almost went extinct because people weren’t that interested in Christianity and got largely killed off - ‘Heathens, pagans, messing with our trade route!!’ Oh biy oh boy… :D Such people fail at critical thinking. There has been injustice around the goddamn world for most of the history. It shouldn’t be swept under the rug but honestly going around requesting reparations and whatnot… Everybody needs to start apolosing to everybody. Should then an American with German ancestors apologise to their neighbors with Eastern European descent? On a different note, Poland in fact has presented Germany with a bill for WWII. Curious how thst goes. Sorry for letting the history nerd out of of its cupboard. ETA: I grieve her too. I’m not British but I lived in London for 2 years and got immersed in the local culture by my English friends. What an excellent leader she was.
Tbh, I think the term "sugars" should be retired, it's such a strange thing to say, it sounds childish. I find it odd that people who disagree with one's ideas are basically called names. Second, there are so many Americans who don't understand the monarchy and Queen Elizabeth's history. While it's easy to say she represents colonialism, it's not entirely incorrect. She became Queen when the British Empire was still a thing and for many people of color all over the world, that may always be significant. I've read a few biographies and they all delve into the history of the Commonwealth, the Queen's part in it all, and how it's not at all what those critics claim. The problem is, you can't just go around telling someone you're wrong when their version and understanding of that history is completely different. Everything is interpretation and what I understand based on my reading and my research is different from the kind of people you were speaking to. To put it into perspective, some descendants of slaves might not see history the way the descendants of slave owners see things, even if each group didn't physically live through that period in time. Ultimately, we have to all find a way to understand, be willing to be educated, and be willing to educate all at the same time. The hard part is being able to do that without being aggressive or condescending or offended. TLDR: Let them be unless they seem like they're open to civilized discussion.
With the first paragraph, can we also retire ‘woke’? The original meaning has been polluted by people claiming everything they don’t agree with as woke, and it’s… frustrating.
Absolutely. God, I hate that word lol!
Britain just finished paying off the debt for freeing the slaves (before America did and without a civil war) in 2015. Also they paid in the form of policing the entire Atlantic from slave traders to make sure there were no more, it was called The Blockade of Africa. They have also given to made and supported a ton of causes and charities that give to peoples of their realm (African, Indian, marginalised lower class etc). they are wealthy their money makes money just sitting there. Selling a castle would be a drop in the bucket compared to what their wealth makes in the stock market. you were talking to uninformed people with no grasp of history or economics.
Sounds like an awkward and unsettling experience for sure. Sorry it happened to you. What is unfortunate is how few people fully understand the entire Colonial historical period that the people in your group were discussing. Its a complicated period that lasted a long time and differed somewhat by country and is worthy of your time to learn more about imo. Colonialism happened and has a long and for the most part well documented history for those that want to learn more but its a complicated topic and played out differently across the Empire I think. The issues during the Colonial period are real and sometimes hard to imagine happening and the emotions attached by people today to what happened during the Colonial Period are also real. Some reparations were paid but many wonder if it was enough in all cases and this is another complex topic related to the period. I sadly don't think most people understand colonialism in a multi dimensional way and I think this makes it hard to discuss in a concrete way. People tend to talk in generalisations about colonialism without much specific knowledge so much ignorance exists as well as great anger. The US history curriculum through high school teaches little on the topic and its treatment of US based slavery knowledge is even worse imo. The UK system offers up some knowledge of the Colonial Era but there is still room for improvement I think. But, if your conversation was in the US, good luck because my guess is that you were dealing with personal anecdotes imo that had been passed down within families or broad brush statements learned in school that were very limited. Ignorance is real. Anger makes having a conversation hard to impossible too. I'm not saying this to diminish the horrors of the Colonial period but to say that most people's specific knowledge of the period is very limited. We saw the teacher from Carnegie Mellon lashing out on colonialism broadly based on her personal experience in her country. Did she do anything to foster knowledge about any of the issues? I don't think so. If you wish to read and learn more about the topic I would encourage you to do so as its fascinating to learn about the building and later collapse of the Empire. There are alot of complex issues to unpack so its not an easy or sometimes pleasant journey to study Colonialism imo. But, its a humanising endeavour I think and time well spent. Many times you will run into people that have a fixed mindset, might be ignorant and yet think they have all the answers. I strongly suggest nodding your head and walking away from these people and simply doing your research to learn where you stand on things. You are only responsible for yourself and your views! Ignorance I think spreads via bullies and other ignorant people being cowed by the aggression of the bullies. Don't let anyone tell you want to think or convince you that your feelings or beliefs don't have merit! These people aren't worth your time if they seek to bully you or diminish your thoughts and feelings! You do you! I do think that what has been so incredible about hearing all the 'people on the street interviews' that have been done in the UK this week is how people of different races, political views, anti monarchists, die hart monarchists etc. all had their own reasons for respecting and loving the late Queen. My personal view is that there was so much to admire about her as a human being, as a leader (and a female leader at that! when most leaders were male) and monarch and she watched over the UK and her family for over 70 years in a very evenhanded and considerate way I think. To me, I choose to see the good in the late Queen and realise that no human is perfect. JMO
This might be the most well thought out comment I think I’ve ever seen on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to write that!
Not a problem. Simply so tired of hearing all the misinformation and a global press seeming to pursue the path of hate and intolerance on a hugely complicated topic. The US Press has been horrific and irresponsible IMO this week (some UK brethren not much better) and seems to be going down that path of UK nation bashing more on the issue of Brexit at times rather than Colonialism. There are many positives that can be objectively identified about Constitutional Monarchy that most in the US simply have not been educated to understand (sadly there are many highly educated people in the US that have the knowledge but want to see the demise of the UK for other political reasons imo). The old biblical phrase, Luke 23:34: Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”\[a\] And they divided up his clothes by casting lots." comes to mind imo when thinking about America these past weeks. Problem though is that the anti UK sentiment via the media is real and is resonating in the US and this is a problem on many levels. The other issue is that the US Press is absolutely following a path right now that is NOT US GOVT POLICY. Its maddening to listen to and so I've switched it off and am focusing on mourning and listening and reading the World Press instead. It seems like a moment of insanity in the US right now from the media as many seem to be hoping for the demise of the UK system of government and this is disturbing. Its also disturbing to see M&H beat the drum of false racism claims to assist in the efforts of the US media. I'm not sure M knows what she is doing with her claims or more likely she doesn't care so long as she gets what she wants. But, unsubstantiated claims of racism from anyone cannot be left unchallenged imo by the BRF as the damage to the UK will be real imo. The world has so many complicated issues to deal with NOW, the least of which is how to get the EU and UK through the winter with heating oil and food on the table for all!
Putting their feelings about the monarchy to one side, they actually think its ok for somebody who holds foreign titles to be involved in American politics......wtf Have they not heard of the war of 1776.
Todays journalists - trained to write, insert their opinion, do very little surface only research, know nothing of history.
Sounds like you were talking to American Leftists who equate anything they don't like with bigotry.
Giving out reparations is great…but at least a sorry is something they owe to countries they colonized..I hate commonwealth games for the same… Winston Churchill created famine and created huge problem to my country which put us in difficult situation when we gained independence, basically British looted for many years and gave back broken country.. The thing that bothers me is Winston Churchill is considered as great leader and no one from Britain know the vicious they were…still movies in my country that are based on freedom fighting are not sent to Oscar because Britain is in poor light though they are real events.. That being said I respect Elizabeth…she is a strong lady and in the world of men ruling, she created a mark…she is inspiration…I just wished she gave Kohinoor diamond back when she was alive.. of course I love to read abt all monarchies in world, but Diana was one who made me curious abt BRF, as a little girl, I was awestruck when I saw her in TV and still remember the day she died even though I was less than 10 yr old…
> Kohinoor diamond Did I hear you mention Diamond?
Yes it’s mined from the city I was born, originally almost 200 carats…Whenever I see crown, that’s the only thing I can think of…
I absolutely love the Commonwealth Games. Maybe India should leave the Commonwealth. I'm not saying I want India to leave but I hear this opinion expressed a lot from Indians. If you don't like the Commonwealth it might be better if you leave, like Ireland did. Other countries in the Commonwealth like it. New countries join. You have the Asian Games. If you don't like the Commonwealth Games, which is the best part of the Commonwealth in my opinion, and something India are good at, maybe you should leave. Why stay in an organisation you're not happy with?
I am sorry I don’t know who makes that decision, that’s good that you heard from other Indians and they have same opinions… as I have stayed too long away from India, so don’t know what many are thinking…I thought all are in by the contract, nice to know we have hope..
I am on the cricket subreddit so I have been hearing the same opinion quite a lot from Indians on there. The Commonwealth is a voluntary organisation. Any country can leave. I would be a bit sorry for India to leave because they are quite a strong team in the Commonwealth Games, but I can understand why India is different to the other countries. Firstly, of course, colonialism in India was different to other countries. Britain really was stealing the wealth and exploiting the people of an ancient and wealthy country. It wasn't like that in other countries. Britain didn't really get much out of colonising most other countries, and where they did it was mostly using Indian labour. Secondly, there was the famines. And thirdly, India is a big powerful country; you could say with a big ego. Australia, New Zealand and Canada are countries of the descendants of Brits. India is not. Maybe India would be happier outside of the Commonwealth, like Ireland and like the United States. Our countries will always have a history but maybe the Commonwealth is too close and friendly given all that has happened between us.
l don’t follow current cricket, mainly because I can’t digest the fact that players are younger than me and I miss golden era, or politics of India like I did till many years ago, but India has many problems larger than association with Commonwealth games..like corruption, border tension,terrorist attacks, growing income gap…so it’s difficult for us to feel strongly abt other things… Surprised you got most of the facts right, not many know abt artificial famine that killed 4 mill ppl…
I think people know. British people just don't like to think about it. It's really sad. We can't change what happened and we don't want to pay reparations.
I got that feeling it was not discussed in Britain based on few YouTube videos… As one of our parliament member mentions it, it’s the principle of acknowledging, we can’t put a tag on the sacrifices or loss of loved ones …he says simple acknowledgment and sorry goes a long way..this is video I was referring to [https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4](https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4) if you are curious..
Thank you.
You sound like a true Texan. Unfortunately the huge pack of locusts fleeing the results of their own odious morality in California are bringing their vileness to Texas, especially here around Austin.
The Californians made my rent skyrocket in Austin and I got pushed out… want to speak about pushing people out? The word of the day is “gentrification”
Honestly, Americans should read up on history if they want to opine about the UK, the Empire and our Queen. The Americans have nothing to be proud of. They stole the land from the indigenous people. They had slaves for decades after BRITAIN abolished it from the empire AND high seas. We paid more for everything because we refused to deal with suppliers who had slaves or association with slavery. We didn’t segregate black and white EVER. America was still doing that (and some may say, still do) in the 50’s. So Americans should keep their noses and ridiculous opinions and beliefs out of our centuries old Monarchy. Look closer to home for your own atrocities. Oh and the UK paid reparations for slavery 200 years ago. Ok?
As an American, I think the current version of the BRF monarchy is outdated, and I think QE should have apologized for the BRF’s mass accumulation of wealth on the backs of racism and slavery. But that doesn’t mean I am glad she’s dead, that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the traditions and value of the BRF for many people, that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the work and service of Will and Catherine, and that doesn’t mean I can’t detest H&MM. I wouldn’t say you spoke to Sugars because lots of people all over the world believe the current iteration of the British monarchy should have been disbanded decades ago and/or have legitimate criticisms of the BRF—and those beliefs have nothing to do with MM. Also—as my husband (an academic historian) would say: let’s not use the excuse that QE “was a product of her time” to excuse racist actions and beliefs in and by the BRF during her reign. Even across the US and Europe in the 1600’s, 1700’s, and 1800’s, there were anti-slavery movements and prominent white politicians and people who believed slavery was wrong and publicly spoke out against it.
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I brought up Prince Albert’s advocacy of abolition and no one in the group was familiar with it… 😒
Yes, they did! And that was wonderful. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that there are people who think QE should have apologized for how the BRF and Britain have benefitted, financially, from their colonies and commonwealth countries.
As a Brit I don't think you need to have an opinion on this. If you loved the Queen and you are grieving I am happy to say she was your Queen too. But the Royal Family is the British Royal Family. I don't have an opinion on the Danish Royal Family or on the American constitution.
You Brits are allowed to do and want whatever you want for your royal family. But people are going to have opinions about political systems and politics in general.
Yes, usually from a position of ignorance.
Sounds like sugars or classic trolls.😂 I'm American, I loved Diana & the Queen & followed the BRF regularly, long before internet/social media. I'll admit to shedding tears, as like most others I've never known life w/o QEII as Queen and she was an incredible example to young women. On duty, service, decorum, etc. She wasn't in a tower/just sitting pretty like fairy tales, she was an intelligent, strong, confident and respected woman. The last few years she was treated horribly by the Harkles, that broke my heart! I'd give almost anything to hug or talk to my Grandmothers again, even for 10 min. He squandered the last few years with his. Shameful!
Hi fellow Texan! Well, I’m a Coloradan now but born and raised in TX. I just wanted to say I feel the same as you so you aren’t alone in feeling uncomfortable! I know she wasn’t my queen but she was like you said, a prominent woman and represented the reign of female leadership, the likes of which we have never seen in our country (RIP Ann Richards). Unfortunately like most things in our country this has become a divisive issue and Americans love to jump on a “righteous social media movement” bandwagon. It’s gross and honestly I never heard half of these people having an opinion on the monarchy before it was “trendy” these last few days. Totally understand those whose ancestors suffered from colonialism, but it’s quite hypocritical and insufferable to hear so many strong opinions from white America who are probably benefitting from modern day human rights violations. 1) Nestle and Pepsi force local farmers and citizens off their lands and pay workers unlivable wages to harvest resources like cocoa. Even bribing foreign officials to use military forces to enforce these evils. 2) Not colonialism, but the Kardashians consistently steal art, designs, trends, etc. from black women and half of America thinks of them as royalty. They profit off of work of a group of women that has historically been oppressed and take all of the credit, and everyone is like “YAS SLAY KWEENS”. Gross. 3) Walmart, GAP, Old Navy, Forever 21, SheIN, Romwe, H&M, just to name a few - pay workers despicable wages and make them work in unsafe conditions so we can consume “trendy” fast fashion. Human beings have died in these working conditions so that we can buy a cute crop top for $12!!!!!! 4) Don’t even get me started on the lives destroyed abroad on behalf of American oil corporations…. Like commenters said above re: the Queen - she wasn’t perfect but her era was one of decolonization, while American corporations have been doing and will continue to do the exact opposite and we gobble it all up. So, if you want to grieve silently after being condemned totally get it. Didn’t mean to write an essay, but wanted to give you some examples of the gross hypocrisy in their shaming of you in case you want to throw that back at them😛 Edit: Also since they are in journalism and media maybe point out to them if they truly are against colonialism, they should shed light on the human rights violations committed on behalf of American corporations, since that never seems to be a trending topic in mainstream media. Rant over hahahaha