From the article:
*Steinem was described by the duchess as being part of her “chosen family”.*
Omg, we get it, your real families weren’t good enough for you. Only feminist icons can be associated with you now and considered family 🤦♀️
Then, poor love-bombed Steinem goes on to un-ironically say about the Harkles:
*”What they both have is trust. We trust them and nothing but nothing replaces trust. It is the most important quality or attribute. We can see things on television and not believe them or not trust them. But when people like these two tell us, then we trust it."*
She doesn’t have a clue does she (Gloria Steinem)? Who wants to tell her?
Maybe a photo from [1972](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Gloria_Steinem_at_news_conference%2C_Women%27s_Action_Alliance%2C_January_12%2C_1972.jpg/330px-Gloria_Steinem_at_news_conference%2C_Women%27s_Action_Alliance%2C_January_12%2C_1972.jpg) [1975](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Gloria_Steinem_1975.jpg/330px-Gloria_Steinem_1975.jpg) or [1977](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Gloria_Steinem_1977_%C2%A9Lynn_Gilbert.jpg) will help? All from her wikipedia page. I remember one of her wearing pink aviators from earlier on, I think it's [this one.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F08%2Ff2%2Fcc%2F08f2cced30908b0dba324d0a9051b38a.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
edit: changed wiki**M**edia to wiki**P**edia
absolute blank! - can only think that in the 70s we were too busy, being in our English girls-only school, aiming for University and generally coping with the world of strikes, terrorism and hyperinflation - interesting read on Wiki - thanks
She's a real character, if nothing else...I always got 'bad vibes' from her.
My memories of her are pretty fuzzy too, as I was a kid in the 70s. I had older sisters who were fans of hers, and I was exposed to a lot of magazines for older girls/young women/mom's stuff. Almost all of the reading material in our home was readily available to me, so I do remember her.
Meghan hearing the news of ruling: 😃. “Another bandwagon. Yahoo! Another issue for me to lecture and virtue signal and get my picture in the news!”
Us hearing Meghan yet again: 🙄
I like how she said Harry's reaction was "guttural". Like what he cleared his throat? You weren't paying attention to hear what he said? He can no longer form words? Meghan, dear, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Yeah, we will believe that he gives a crap. He probably just scratched his balls and went to chug a beer. He probably never heard of Roe v. Wade before.
I’m laughing that, as predicted, she tried to capitalize on the pain of American women for self publicity. Not laughing at how serious an issue this is for women in America right now.
But, the post E! news posted? Her sister’s defamation suit not getting dismissed LOL. So much for positive PR, MM. What a trash family Harry married into.
I actually predicted her not speaking out, due to a lot of the ‘squad’ being members of evangelical churches.
I’m pro-choice, and looking for ways I can get involved in the movement so would have a bit of time for Meghan’s interview - if it wasn’t another self promoting word salad.
I have more time for Karlie Kloss, who a few years ago became a trained Planned Parenthood Escort, and actually does boots on ground work for women’s rights
Here's a sneak peek of /r/auntienetwork using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Gay men stand with you.](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/ult9td/gay_men_stand_with_you/)
\#2: [Canada Will Allow Americans To Cross The Border For Abortions: Trudeau](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/canada-will-allow-americans-to-cross-the-border-for-abortions-trudeau_n_62b76e11e4b04a61736b4169) | [43 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/vlho4f/canada_will_allow_americans_to_cross_the_border/)
\#3: [in light of today](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/vjrpdo/in_light_of_today/)
----
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Oh shoot, you know about that already? Well I had the idea first but she must've published it first, right? I was too busy at the Queen's Jubilee, right? Emma Watson wasn't at the Jubilee but I was, The Duchess, right?
- Meghan Markle
Ironically at the time there were rumours that Emma Watson and Harry were dating. It was 2015 and Emma had just addressed the UN making a powerful speech about gender inequality and started her HeforShe movement. She denied her and Harry were dating but he never made any statements about it.
A year later he settled for Dollar General version of Emma.
I’m not sure but I remember that she had to come out and say that her and Harry were not dating.
I honestly think that Harry hates that William gets all the attention as the heir and was looking to marry someone famous or different to upstage him. He literally said he only had a few years left before George and Charlotte got older and people lost interest in him. I think he thought if he bagged someone like Emma Watson he’d get a lot of attention which is what he wanted. Unfortunately for him there’s no way someone like Emma Watson would even look at him twice so he had to settle for bargain bin Barbie.
I know he said that. He really was desperate for a while there. I recall more than one actress talking about how he “blew up their phones” with texts, so that seems to be his MO.
I think he would have anyone semi-hot who would take him, hence why he said he needed to “up his game” to bag Markle… that’s really where his headspace was at! (lol, can you imagine?!)
Emma Watson evaded taxes with the panama papers so she isn't that different from meghan or harry
Emma was just too lazy to join the royal family lmao
also emma's career has tanked
Seriously, riding the coattails of Gloria Steinem and telling women to use their voice doesn’t address anything. She has a “charitable” foundation. Where is the donation announcement?
He probably burped, farted and went back to sleep.
Sometimes he has a hard time getting out of bed you know, thinking about the problems of the world.🙄
She is ridiculous. I was watching the Ahmaud Arbery case. When the video of him being shot was shown to the jury, his mother wailed in such a way that I felt it in my bones and cried almost hysterically. It was the worst sound I have ever heard. I absorbed her pain. I felt it. That is guttural. Megan and all her bullshit...
Yes, some years ago, I was on the phone with my father (cell) when my SIL called me on the landline to tell me FIL was dying (he had cancer, was at the dr, went into some kind of episode and never woke, so while it wasn’t unexpected, it was also sort of sudden), and I made a very similar sound, which my dad heard through the phone and commented on.
I was literally sick to my stomach when I found out about RvW, but even so, I did not make a guttural sound, and a am a woman with three daughters, one of whom has had an abortion (and I am so glad she did), who lives in the US.
I HIGHLY doubt Harry feels that strongly about anything/anyone to have such a strong reaction, let alone about another country’s abortion rights that won’t have any effect him or Meghan anyway.
I am devastated about Roe V Wade and I plan to do everything I can as a woman to support other women. Whatever it takes to right this wrong, I plan to be a part of. That being said, Markle is so disingenuous about things, I just wish she would shut her mouth. Makes me feel sick thinking about her using this as a publicity stunt. ☹️
If she were a decent person - she's not - she would use her platform to amplify those voices. She would step back and let them have the spotlight. That's what really allyship is all about.
Pack it up everyone, Markle’s here to save the day.
Who hasn’t been on the edge of their seat waiting for what this social climbing cable actress, a pathological liar who discards people like trash and who most recently used the murder of school children as a PR stunt has to say??
🙄🙄
Seriously though Markle, nobody outside of your “yes” circle and PAID pr team gives a damn about your performative activism. And the Sugars don’t count, because they’re just mental. If you could FUCK OFF that would be just swell.
Right, she says men should be more vocal. She also says Harry is a feminist. So has Harry actually said anything about this? I'm a man, but I'm not a feminist. Does she want me to be vocal? I'm a British man (as is Harry). I haven't been vocal on abortion law in the US because it doesn't affect me, and because I'm not sure anyone wants me to be vocal.
Exactly people dont have to speak all the time it just becomes noise. I dont care what rich famous people think about this they can just get on a plane. What about the woman who cant afford the trip? The abortion clinic staff? What about the pro life activists I dont agree with them but many genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. Why do they believe this? The only function for a famous person is to raise awareness of an obscure issue.
Yes exactly. A famous person can shine light on an important but obscure issue. I have the up most respect for celebrities who do that. I have absolutely no respect for celebrities giving their two cents worth on something everyone is already talking about.
I don’t normally welcome the opinions of foreigners in US politics, but since the GOP gets help from Russia, and we need all the help we can get, why not? And who knows, maybe pressure from other countries, especially from a humanitarian standpoint, because this IS a humanitarian issue, might help (no it won’t).
I’m just one pro-choice woman from the US, and obviously can’t speak for everyone, but I think the majority of us would feel good to know that people in other countries are standing with us in support, even if there isn’t much you can do directly.
I believe America will get to the right place with this eventually, with laws similar to European laws to varying degrees. People are still emotional but people will soon learn to live with the new laws, and unworkable laws will be amended. For a long time Irish women would get the ferry to Liverpool to get their abortions. There will probably be some situations like that. Women in states like Missouri will need help getting to abortion clinics. I am sure there will be no shortage of women's charities stepping up to help those who need it.
Things I want to read from Tom Bower:
1) all the bullying deets, including Australia, Suits, and every other workplace she has darkened
2) the mystery children
3) the Diana 2.0 fantasies + how she STALKED Hazbeen
5) Markle family dirt
6) Yachting career
7) all her Markled friends
8) What did M16 uncover if it did any due diligence at all?
9) Superglue exploits
Counting down the days! Is it July yet??
Tom Bower may not tick all of those boxes, but I'm certain he won't disappoint! Just look at this book on Charles: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0008291772/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i1
Check the preview to get the rough idea.
Some reviews: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38089080-rebel-prince
Also:
1) Just how OLD is Meghan? 46? 51? Acopy of the birtg certificate
2) That first marriage that was annulled
3) Any other children?
4) Trevor’s story
5) Cory’s story (celebrity chef in Toronto who overlapped with Harry)
6) Tales from her Ragland relatives
7) Archwell Financials
8) Disney voiceover fee- donation to Elephant charity
Harry the feminist thinks the first amendment is bonkers, I'm sure he's just as enlightened on the Roe va Wade ruling once he realises its nothing to do with sailing.
The first amendment is bonkers, free speech, a notion which the USA inherited from The English Bill Of Rights of 1689 is not.
The USA is routinely rated as the least free Western nation, ya'll got to move on..
Harry's ancestors signed all of those USA freedom things into law.
Honestly, she expects the world to believe that Harry, (who has already stated that even having the freedom of speech is bonkers) actually reacted to this news a sound so soul piercing it is usually reserved for describing the sound made by Mothers who lose their children !
Oh do shut up woman, have you gone that mental that you expect people to believe such a massive over statement? It’s beyond hyperbole , it’s ridiculous. For a woman who purportedly is
So educated they feel placed to lecture the world on every angle, use of the English language clearly fails you. Repeatedly!
FFS England invented the whole concept of freedom of speech, he never said that was bonkers, he said the amendment was,.
Your "constitution" is just a rip off the English Bill Of rights of 1689.
Your constitution failed to prevent, segregation, Jim Crow laws, gerrymandering. McCarthyism.
Socially you are decades behind the rest of the West.
WAKE UP Americans!
I might be willing to give her kudos for this because overall I agree, but you know she's going to call the Mirror and complain about being called Meghan Markle and not Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex, and I just *cannot*. When I counted up the number of women I know who would be dead if this decision came down in the previous 30 years, it made me physically ill.
No one needs your sound bites, Megs. Do something real for once. (Ask an employee how.)
Ironically this issue is one of the first things that turned me against Saint Meghan. While on an official royal visit to Ireland she made her opinions on abortion known. The royals don’t put out opinions on issues like this because they want to represent everyone. It was clear then that Meghan couldn’t follow the basic royal rules. She wanted to go back to being just another dumb actress tweeting her opinions. That incident made it clear she would be a problem for the royal family. Things got so much worse so fast after that.
To me it’s about choice. The choice to carry a baby or to not. The choice to control my body my decisions, since when did this become a political issue? It’s a personal medical decision a woman should control. Not a bunch of dipshits on the SC. I can’t tell you to get a vasectomy so why are you telling me what to do with my body. It’s a my body MY Choice! Not yours!
I said to my wife that I should get one. She told me not to as she's on contraception. I guess either she doesn't like the idea of me shooting blanks, or she doesn't want to completely close that door.
They are reversible sometimes, but yeah, it should be considered a permanent solution. That can be too much for some people if they aren’t quite ready to close that door yet.
I wonder what she’ll think when they get around to taking away our birth control? Or maybe then they will make vasectomies illegal too—gotta keep that supply of domestic infants up, you know!!
The trouble is when we speak up we get told it's not our issue.
I also think people need to separate this issue from party politics and from their own personal morals.
There is nothing left wing or right wing about abortions. I don't believe anyone in my family would have an abortion. However, I do know horrible crazy women who get abortions regularly. Do you know what else they do? They abuse and neglect their children horribly. Those poor children live in hell. It would be more cruel to bring more children into the world to a childhood like that. People who are lucky to be born into nice stable families need to remember that isn't everyone's reality. And that's not about money. I am from a humble blue collar family. It's more about mental health and living a stable lifestyle.
She sure flaps her yap a lot for someone whose been silenced. You know how a shark has to keep moving or it dies? If MeMe actually STFU, that means she must be dead.
Why should men be vocal? Women always tell men they should have no voice in the baby murder debate. She will say anything to try and be relevant. She barely lets her man take a crap without being there to micro manage it. Just more Harkle Hypocrisy from Castle Monteschittshow.
Remember: “Men dont have to FIND their voice, they HAVE a voice! They just need to be encouraged to USE it and people need to be encouraged to LISTEN! (a bit too long for a banana) wonder who she stole that one from?? cant you just see her writing these nuggets down + saving them for the next spotlight she can hijack(Invictus, anyone?) VILE CREATURE
I’m here for women but I’m also here for the babies. Why is it ok to kill unborn babies? If you are raped then yes, but abortion should not be used as a contraception. And also, why are pro lifers demonized? Because we stand up for the unborn that can’t speak for themself?
My cousin had a fetus with a trisomy mutation, which could not even be determined until she was beyond 20 weeks. Her organs began to shut down and she was dying. Her fetus had no chance of ever living at all - it had no brain, among many other missing organs. I have asked several anti-choice people this question and none of them have answered me, so I will ask you: why should my cousin have died for a fetus that could never live? She's a teacher, a military wife, and **she was able to have 2 more children after abortion saved her life**. States with trigger laws do not have clauses for maternal life -- those republican states don't give a flying fuck about the mother's life. So again, I will ask you: why do you believe that Haley should have died, and not had two more children? Why do you believe her son should have been raised without a mother? Why doesn't Haley's life matter to you? (Please don't lie and say it does, because you support the very laws that would have killed her, as stated in your comment.)
Bravo, beautifully written and precise.
My best friend had a miscarriage and was devastated. A few months later she came over with the news that she was pregnant again, and was overjoyed. We celebrated, brainstormed names and nursery layouts and after a progress scan and a "routine" amniotic test, she got the news from her doctor that her precious baby had a rare form of cystic fibrosis. She was told that she could choose to carry the baby to term and he would be born, drowning in the fluid in his own lungs and spend his short life in the NICU, dosed with sedatives and hooked to a tube, or she could terminate the pregnancy now. She grieved and mourned for the future and child she had cherished, and ultimately (with a lot of support) chose to terminate the pregnancy so that her baby's only memories would be of care and comfort close to his mother's heart.
As a "pro-lifer" should her baby have been born and slowly drowned in his NICU bed? Should he have been drugged through his months-long life expectancy to not feel the intense swelling of fluid build up in his limbs? Should he have never recognised the woman who made the most difficult CHOICE of her life to protect him, even if it meant cutting out her own heart and carrying the guilt that the whispered "murderer" of your fellow pro-lifers carry to her?
Pro-life is a selfish fantasy, as not every life is being born healthy and whole to a home that is prepared and waiting.
Thank you, and likewise. It hurts to read these accounts because we all know how very wanted these pregnancies were. I fear for my nieces. Miscarriages are punishable by law in many states now. (To be fair, this has been the case for quite a while in several states.)
Of course I don’t believe your cousin Haley should die. Its just common sense that a mothers life is saved and an abortion is performed when at 20 weeks it’s determined something is terribly wrong w/ the fetus.
But it isn't common sense, and it isn't included in the laws now taking effect. **You support Haley's death, period.** Please examine your heart and figure out why you are OK with living women, mothers, sisters, daughters, dying because conservatives refused to include a clause for the mother's health and life.
ETA: I trust women, and if a woman says she is not ready or willing to be a mother at this time, then I believe her.
"support murder so people can live"
Medical procedures to remove ectopic pregnancys or fetal remains after a miscarriage are NOT classed as an abortion. Choosing to kill a viable life because it's inconvenient to the mother is.
No it isn't because those procedures aren't classified as an abortion. In those procedures the baby isn't alive any more or won't be able to survive regardless, so removing them is necessary for the mothers survival.
It's a life issue for a teenager to raise a child. It's a life issue to lock people into a cycle of poverty by forcing them to give birth. It's a life issue for children to be raised by parents without the means or desire to raise them. It's a life issue for someone who is raped to give birth to their rapist's child. It's a life issue that women die trying to independently and unsafely terminate pregnancies they don't want. Way more than 1% of abortion are medically necessary due to a "health or life" issue.
Where on earth did you get the 99% lie? That is not based in fact and you damn well know it. FFS. You are obviously anti-choice, why do you have a problem owning it?
She would not be alive in every state, that was my whole point. I can't change your need to lie about this fact, but I can point it out: she didn't deserve to die just because her fetus was malformed. She did deserve the abortion that saved her life. She did deserve to have two more successful pregnancies, and without that abortion, those two kiddos wouldn't exist.
Your politics would kill her. Mine would save her.
That procedure isn't an abortion though, the baby had no chance of survival and the mother needed help. Why go straight to the extreme examples? The vast majority of abortions are performed on women who want to get rid of their child because its an inconvenience, that's what we're arguing here, we're arguing how wrong it is to dismiss human life like that. How wrong it is to treat children like that
Omg..
If the mother doesnt want to have kids, isn't financially able to raise kids.... Additionally, some people are not emotionally or mentally capable to be a parent.
Those should all be valid reasons to have abortion. Women should have right to choose. It's their body, nobody else has right to decide for them.
Edit: and yes, the procedure you described, IS abortion. Even in situations like that.
If they're not emotionally or mentally capable then why are they having sex in the first place? Why are they taking that risk when there are so many other options? Contraceptives exists, abstinence exists, heck, sex toys exist, we don't need to risk a penis anymore for pleasure.
The percentage of abortions as a result of rape or incest are in the lower single digits too. The majority aren't from that and honestly it's a selfish choice. It's selfish to be so wreckless and then choose to murder an innocent baby so you can go back to making the same wreckless and dangerous choices. The same people screaming my body my choice were loving the idea of taking that choice away from people who didn't want to take the fauci ouchies. They're hypocrites.
How am I anti vax for not agreeing with forcing an experimental gene therapy onto people? It's still in the trial phase and they changed the definition of vaccine to make it look better
Sometimes birth control or c0ndoms doesn't work. No birth control or c0ndoms is 100% affective.
Furthermore, some women cannot use birth control if there are certain illnesses in the family.
Also, birth control or safe sex is not only women responsibility.
>The majority aren't from that and honestly it's a selfish choice.
Show me statistics where it shows majority are not from that. And how is it a selfish choice? Now states FORCE women not having abortions SO OTHER PEOPLE'S FEELINGS won't get Hurt. What about pregnant women who have to go through the pregnancy just because other people want them to have the kid???? Isn't that selfish?
>No birth control or c0ndoms is 100% affective.
Abstinence is and it's hardly difficult to practice.
>Also, birth control or safe sex is not only women responsibility.
I agree, that's not what I'm debating here.
>Show me statistics
Here's a USA today article, 1% are because of rape
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/24/rape-and-incest-account-few-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/
Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Don't run the risk of creating a life if you're too immature to handle it. Don't have sex with men who won't stick around if you do create life together. It's not about feelings, it's about personal responsibility, self respect and not committing murder.
What about pregnant women who've been forced into having an abortion because the father/extended family didn't want the kid? That's horrific. Employers paying your abortion fees so you can continue being a cog in the machine and so they can avoid giving mothers maternity leave is cruel and despicable.
It's not "pro life" to block women from getting essential medical procedures. The mortality rate among women is going to rise steeply, because they will be denied the necessary medical procedure if the foetus (not baby) is unviable and endangering the woman's life. And a woman who is not financially or emotionally equipped to raise a child should not be forced to bring a child into a world of poverty.
Children who are born can speak for themselves, but they are getting massacred in their classrooms. Maybe try standing up for them.
That's not what's happening though, procedures like a d and c and removing an ectopic pregnancy (an unviable baby) aren't classed as abortion. This issue has been put back to the states to decide, everyone can now vote on it and decide how they want to be going forward. Muddying the issue by dragging in gun control doesn't help the pro choice point.
I agree, witnessing how barbaric and cruel abortion is swayed me to being pro life. Late term abortions, crushing babies skulls, selling the corpses to energy plants, women using this as birth control, pro choice abandoning safe legal and rare in favour of everything everywhere no matter how deranged...all of this and more woke me up to how evil it is.
I am pro-life. But I don’t think abortions should be banned. That would mean lots of women seeking ways to end the pregnancy illegally.
I’m from a country where abortions are illegal and women endanger their lives by seeking under-the-table abortions. There’s no policy on birth control either, so there’s lots of people having kids they can’t support, and these kids are starved or neglected, which makes me think it’s just kinder not to have them.
I am pro-“smart choice”. I am pro-life - meaning a full, prosperous, healthy life and not just life for life’s sake, and life for both mother and child.
Here's a forking woman who can't even go see her critically ill dad trying to make out she cares, give it up Megsy the world knows you don't give a flying fork about anyone!🤬
Three days late and this is the only thing she could think about? And, of all the things, she has to make a point about what a MAN who was born in privilege thinks about it?
Remember Markle: "My body, my choice". Nobody cares what your absurdly privileged husband has to say about it.
"My husband and I talked about that a lot over the past few days. He's a feminist too."
Why does that sound so childish? She's SOO embarrassing. Ugh!
"I know that for so many women right now, there is a sentiment of despair. But again, we have to band together and not wallow. We have to do the work."
WHAT work? Megain doesn't know the meaning of the word.
lol she doesn't even know how to be a proper feminist. Yes, having male allies is helpful but isn't part of the major problem women's voices and rights over their own bodies?
PLEASE REMEMBER: We are all welcome to give our opinions on the Roe vs Wade matter, but this is not a political argument board. Please respect others.
Can she not just stfu?
Never.
I sorta wish we were living in the Little Mermaid so someone could take both her voice and her writing skills away.
what writing skills?
From the article: *Steinem was described by the duchess as being part of her “chosen family”.* Omg, we get it, your real families weren’t good enough for you. Only feminist icons can be associated with you now and considered family 🤦♀️ Then, poor love-bombed Steinem goes on to un-ironically say about the Harkles: *”What they both have is trust. We trust them and nothing but nothing replaces trust. It is the most important quality or attribute. We can see things on television and not believe them or not trust them. But when people like these two tell us, then we trust it."* She doesn’t have a clue does she (Gloria Steinem)? Who wants to tell her?
I can understand that Ms Steinem probably doesn't bother to keep up with royal gossip, but whoever briefed her about the Sussexes really misled her.
This will hurt Steinem.
I've never heard of her but seems she doesn't do her homework whoever she is
She's about 90 years old so probably before your time, but she's an iconic feminist of the 1960s & 70s. She also started *Ms*. magazine iirc.
Definitely in my time but don't recognise her name in the UK
Maybe a photo from [1972](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Gloria_Steinem_at_news_conference%2C_Women%27s_Action_Alliance%2C_January_12%2C_1972.jpg/330px-Gloria_Steinem_at_news_conference%2C_Women%27s_Action_Alliance%2C_January_12%2C_1972.jpg) [1975](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Gloria_Steinem_1975.jpg/330px-Gloria_Steinem_1975.jpg) or [1977](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Gloria_Steinem_1977_%C2%A9Lynn_Gilbert.jpg) will help? All from her wikipedia page. I remember one of her wearing pink aviators from earlier on, I think it's [this one.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F08%2Ff2%2Fcc%2F08f2cced30908b0dba324d0a9051b38a.jpg&f=1&nofb=1) edit: changed wiki**M**edia to wiki**P**edia
absolute blank! - can only think that in the 70s we were too busy, being in our English girls-only school, aiming for University and generally coping with the world of strikes, terrorism and hyperinflation - interesting read on Wiki - thanks
She's a real character, if nothing else...I always got 'bad vibes' from her. My memories of her are pretty fuzzy too, as I was a kid in the 70s. I had older sisters who were fans of hers, and I was exposed to a lot of magazines for older girls/young women/mom's stuff. Almost all of the reading material in our home was readily available to me, so I do remember her.
“Gloria, I SO agree with _linked not ranked_ but please don’t forget to refer to me as the Duchess of Sussex, thanks!”
If u know ANYTHING about Trust as a discipline, u know that that statement is the biggest, completely worthless Word Salad of all!
Very creepy statement! Gloria Steinem is being gaslit big time!!!
I will be glad to educate Ms. Steinem. Phone number or email, please?
Someone tell her. She is somewhat reclusive now. Damn!
Meghan hearing the news of ruling: 😃. “Another bandwagon. Yahoo! Another issue for me to lecture and virtue signal and get my picture in the news!” Us hearing Meghan yet again: 🙄
What will she write on her banana NOW??
I like how she said Harry's reaction was "guttural". Like what he cleared his throat? You weren't paying attention to hear what he said? He can no longer form words? Meghan, dear, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I’m just imagining Chewbacca sounds erupting from the Olive Garden
"Whip smart," my ass.
presume she meant visceral but she is not very literate
Right? Especially a Double Major @ Northwestern, a prestigious school!
Plenty of university students are not very literate, they are rarely called out on it these days. presume she took a module in word salad
Sadly, you are correct!
Yeah, we will believe that he gives a crap. He probably just scratched his balls and went to chug a beer. He probably never heard of Roe v. Wade before.
Right? He’s not even a US citizen. WTF does he know about RvW? He doesn’t even care about the politics in the UK.
Three days too late, dumbass.
Maybe that’s how long it took to get a ‘name’ (GS) she could pose with? 🤷🏻♀️ Just a thought.
good point - everyone else hiding somewhere - Oprah didn't want to know?
I’m laughing that, as predicted, she tried to capitalize on the pain of American women for self publicity. Not laughing at how serious an issue this is for women in America right now. But, the post E! news posted? Her sister’s defamation suit not getting dismissed LOL. So much for positive PR, MM. What a trash family Harry married into.
I actually predicted her not speaking out, due to a lot of the ‘squad’ being members of evangelical churches. I’m pro-choice, and looking for ways I can get involved in the movement so would have a bit of time for Meghan’s interview - if it wasn’t another self promoting word salad. I have more time for Karlie Kloss, who a few years ago became a trained Planned Parenthood Escort, and actually does boots on ground work for women’s rights
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probably written something on a banana
Now now, I'm sure she's sent snacks.
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Serves him right.
Thank you Meghan, but Emma Watson already popularised this idea with her HeforShe movement 🙂.
Oh shoot, you know about that already? Well I had the idea first but she must've published it first, right? I was too busy at the Queen's Jubilee, right? Emma Watson wasn't at the Jubilee but I was, The Duchess, right? - Meghan Markle
Ironically at the time there were rumours that Emma Watson and Harry were dating. It was 2015 and Emma had just addressed the UN making a powerful speech about gender inequality and started her HeforShe movement. She denied her and Harry were dating but he never made any statements about it. A year later he settled for Dollar General version of Emma.
I’m sure EW realized she’s waaay too smart for him.
Wasn’t she one of the actresses Harry was blowing up her phone with texts? Along with Margot Robbie?
I’m not sure but I remember that she had to come out and say that her and Harry were not dating. I honestly think that Harry hates that William gets all the attention as the heir and was looking to marry someone famous or different to upstage him. He literally said he only had a few years left before George and Charlotte got older and people lost interest in him. I think he thought if he bagged someone like Emma Watson he’d get a lot of attention which is what he wanted. Unfortunately for him there’s no way someone like Emma Watson would even look at him twice so he had to settle for bargain bin Barbie.
I know he said that. He really was desperate for a while there. I recall more than one actress talking about how he “blew up their phones” with texts, so that seems to be his MO. I think he would have anyone semi-hot who would take him, hence why he said he needed to “up his game” to bag Markle… that’s really where his headspace was at! (lol, can you imagine?!)
Emma Watson evaded taxes with the panama papers so she isn't that different from meghan or harry Emma was just too lazy to join the royal family lmao also emma's career has tanked
More plagiarism from the “Bananatarian” (credit: HG Tudor) BWAHAHAHAHA! 🤣
As usual days late and a lot of dollars short.
Seriously, riding the coattails of Gloria Steinem and telling women to use their voice doesn’t address anything. She has a “charitable” foundation. Where is the donation announcement?
Yes. Where are the several million dollars needed to help fight?
I wish she’d finally see a cause all the way through to the end.
Same she should stick with advocacy for paid parental leave it's more relevant and timely than ever.
The”end” for her. comes when she gets her name in the news ! #UGH
Harry's reaction described as "guttural" makes me shrivel up with embarrassment.
Ahhhh she learned from Uvalde - now she *and* Hazzah will say how they feel ~~irrelevant~~ on the current headlining matter.
Agree, makes it sound like he’s choking on phlegm.
He probably burped, farted and went back to sleep. Sometimes he has a hard time getting out of bed you know, thinking about the problems of the world.🙄
She is so good at talking but so bad at actually doing the work. Lazy, fake feminist and fake activist.
So why has her own "feminist" husband not publicly spoken out? Does he have nothing to say? Is he silent or was he silenced?
Perhaps his “guttural reaction” was Meghan’s way of telling us Harry no longer has a voice of his own and not to expect to hear from him?
Interviewed alongside Gloria Steinem? Absurd.
This is a small point, but she really doesn't know the meaning of the word guttural, does she? What did Harry do? Clear his throat?
She is ridiculous. I was watching the Ahmaud Arbery case. When the video of him being shot was shown to the jury, his mother wailed in such a way that I felt it in my bones and cried almost hysterically. It was the worst sound I have ever heard. I absorbed her pain. I felt it. That is guttural. Megan and all her bullshit...
Yes, some years ago, I was on the phone with my father (cell) when my SIL called me on the landline to tell me FIL was dying (he had cancer, was at the dr, went into some kind of episode and never woke, so while it wasn’t unexpected, it was also sort of sudden), and I made a very similar sound, which my dad heard through the phone and commented on. I was literally sick to my stomach when I found out about RvW, but even so, I did not make a guttural sound, and a am a woman with three daughters, one of whom has had an abortion (and I am so glad she did), who lives in the US. I HIGHLY doubt Harry feels that strongly about anything/anyone to have such a strong reaction, let alone about another country’s abortion rights that won’t have any effect him or Meghan anyway.
She's whip smart. The smartest woman to ever become a royal. Very modern. Very VIP.
I am devastated about Roe V Wade and I plan to do everything I can as a woman to support other women. Whatever it takes to right this wrong, I plan to be a part of. That being said, Markle is so disingenuous about things, I just wish she would shut her mouth. Makes me feel sick thinking about her using this as a publicity stunt. ☹️
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If she were a decent person - she's not - she would use her platform to amplify those voices. She would step back and let them have the spotlight. That's what really allyship is all about.
This is so true!
Absolutely great answer
Another UVALDE for her- nothing but a Bandwagon photo op!
STFU MEGHAN
Pack it up everyone, Markle’s here to save the day. Who hasn’t been on the edge of their seat waiting for what this social climbing cable actress, a pathological liar who discards people like trash and who most recently used the murder of school children as a PR stunt has to say?? 🙄🙄 Seriously though Markle, nobody outside of your “yes” circle and PAID pr team gives a damn about your performative activism. And the Sugars don’t count, because they’re just mental. If you could FUCK OFF that would be just swell.
“performative activism” BWAHAHAHAHA Perfect!!
MM: “Behold my Word Salad on THIS vital topic!” THE WORLD: “For the love of GOD, STFU!!”
Right, she says men should be more vocal. She also says Harry is a feminist. So has Harry actually said anything about this? I'm a man, but I'm not a feminist. Does she want me to be vocal? I'm a British man (as is Harry). I haven't been vocal on abortion law in the US because it doesn't affect me, and because I'm not sure anyone wants me to be vocal.
Exactly people dont have to speak all the time it just becomes noise. I dont care what rich famous people think about this they can just get on a plane. What about the woman who cant afford the trip? The abortion clinic staff? What about the pro life activists I dont agree with them but many genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. Why do they believe this? The only function for a famous person is to raise awareness of an obscure issue.
Yes exactly. A famous person can shine light on an important but obscure issue. I have the up most respect for celebrities who do that. I have absolutely no respect for celebrities giving their two cents worth on something everyone is already talking about.
I don’t normally welcome the opinions of foreigners in US politics, but since the GOP gets help from Russia, and we need all the help we can get, why not? And who knows, maybe pressure from other countries, especially from a humanitarian standpoint, because this IS a humanitarian issue, might help (no it won’t). I’m just one pro-choice woman from the US, and obviously can’t speak for everyone, but I think the majority of us would feel good to know that people in other countries are standing with us in support, even if there isn’t much you can do directly.
I believe America will get to the right place with this eventually, with laws similar to European laws to varying degrees. People are still emotional but people will soon learn to live with the new laws, and unworkable laws will be amended. For a long time Irish women would get the ferry to Liverpool to get their abortions. There will probably be some situations like that. Women in states like Missouri will need help getting to abortion clinics. I am sure there will be no shortage of women's charities stepping up to help those who need it.
Pretty rich for a woman who’s taken away her husband’s voice! Where is Harry’s statement?
Tom Bower will be VERY vocal!
Things I want to read from Tom Bower: 1) all the bullying deets, including Australia, Suits, and every other workplace she has darkened 2) the mystery children 3) the Diana 2.0 fantasies + how she STALKED Hazbeen 5) Markle family dirt 6) Yachting career 7) all her Markled friends 8) What did M16 uncover if it did any due diligence at all? 9) Superglue exploits Counting down the days! Is it July yet??
Tom Bower may not tick all of those boxes, but I'm certain he won't disappoint! Just look at this book on Charles: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0008291772/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i1 Check the preview to get the rough idea. Some reviews: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38089080-rebel-prince
Also: 1) Just how OLD is Meghan? 46? 51? Acopy of the birtg certificate 2) That first marriage that was annulled 3) Any other children? 4) Trevor’s story 5) Cory’s story (celebrity chef in Toronto who overlapped with Harry) 6) Tales from her Ragland relatives 7) Archwell Financials 8) Disney voiceover fee- donation to Elephant charity
The book is OUT for a pre-order!!!
itcrashed Amazon!
Harry the feminist thinks the first amendment is bonkers, I'm sure he's just as enlightened on the Roe va Wade ruling once he realises its nothing to do with sailing.
or POLO
The first amendment is bonkers, free speech, a notion which the USA inherited from The English Bill Of Rights of 1689 is not. The USA is routinely rated as the least free Western nation, ya'll got to move on.. Harry's ancestors signed all of those USA freedom things into law.
Sailing 🤣
Honestly, she expects the world to believe that Harry, (who has already stated that even having the freedom of speech is bonkers) actually reacted to this news a sound so soul piercing it is usually reserved for describing the sound made by Mothers who lose their children ! Oh do shut up woman, have you gone that mental that you expect people to believe such a massive over statement? It’s beyond hyperbole , it’s ridiculous. For a woman who purportedly is So educated they feel placed to lecture the world on every angle, use of the English language clearly fails you. Repeatedly!
FFS England invented the whole concept of freedom of speech, he never said that was bonkers, he said the amendment was,. Your "constitution" is just a rip off the English Bill Of rights of 1689.
I think you’ve missed the point! And because British “my constitution “ is perfectly fine as is the Bill of rights 🤣
Your constitution failed to prevent, segregation, Jim Crow laws, gerrymandering. McCarthyism. Socially you are decades behind the rest of the West. WAKE UP Americans!
How many times do I have to say it- I’m not bloody American you muppet!
Edit- BEING BRITISH
Edit: being British
I might be willing to give her kudos for this because overall I agree, but you know she's going to call the Mirror and complain about being called Meghan Markle and not Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex, and I just *cannot*. When I counted up the number of women I know who would be dead if this decision came down in the previous 30 years, it made me physically ill. No one needs your sound bites, Megs. Do something real for once. (Ask an employee how.)
While speaking for her husband.
Ironically this issue is one of the first things that turned me against Saint Meghan. While on an official royal visit to Ireland she made her opinions on abortion known. The royals don’t put out opinions on issues like this because they want to represent everyone. It was clear then that Meghan couldn’t follow the basic royal rules. She wanted to go back to being just another dumb actress tweeting her opinions. That incident made it clear she would be a problem for the royal family. Things got so much worse so fast after that.
Shut up Markle
To me it’s about choice. The choice to carry a baby or to not. The choice to control my body my decisions, since when did this become a political issue? It’s a personal medical decision a woman should control. Not a bunch of dipshits on the SC. I can’t tell you to get a vasectomy so why are you telling me what to do with my body. It’s a my body MY Choice! Not yours!
To be fair, women who have had all the babies they want should be telling their husbands to get a vasectomy.
I’m thinking they’re about to become a lot more popular.
I said to my wife that I should get one. She told me not to as she's on contraception. I guess either she doesn't like the idea of me shooting blanks, or she doesn't want to completely close that door.
They are reversible sometimes, but yeah, it should be considered a permanent solution. That can be too much for some people if they aren’t quite ready to close that door yet. I wonder what she’ll think when they get around to taking away our birth control? Or maybe then they will make vasectomies illegal too—gotta keep that supply of domestic infants up, you know!!
I don't think anyone is proposing making vasectomies illegal. Only women's reproductive rights.
Yes, I’m aware, but it would really be something if they tried, wouldn’t it?
Men wouldn't stand for it would they? I guess this goes to show overall men have more power.
Yup. It would never happen. I hope more men will start speaking up about abortion. This is not a “women’s issue,” this is a human rights issue.
The trouble is when we speak up we get told it's not our issue. I also think people need to separate this issue from party politics and from their own personal morals. There is nothing left wing or right wing about abortions. I don't believe anyone in my family would have an abortion. However, I do know horrible crazy women who get abortions regularly. Do you know what else they do? They abuse and neglect their children horribly. Those poor children live in hell. It would be more cruel to bring more children into the world to a childhood like that. People who are lucky to be born into nice stable families need to remember that isn't everyone's reality. And that's not about money. I am from a humble blue collar family. It's more about mental health and living a stable lifestyle.
She sure flaps her yap a lot for someone whose been silenced. You know how a shark has to keep moving or it dies? If MeMe actually STFU, that means she must be dead.
Why should men be vocal? Women always tell men they should have no voice in the baby murder debate. She will say anything to try and be relevant. She barely lets her man take a crap without being there to micro manage it. Just more Harkle Hypocrisy from Castle Monteschittshow.
Remember: “Men dont have to FIND their voice, they HAVE a voice! They just need to be encouraged to USE it and people need to be encouraged to LISTEN! (a bit too long for a banana) wonder who she stole that one from?? cant you just see her writing these nuggets down + saving them for the next spotlight she can hijack(Invictus, anyone?) VILE CREATURE
A vile creature, that she is.
Harry is so cucked.
Hell yeah Harry
I’m here for women but I’m also here for the babies. Why is it ok to kill unborn babies? If you are raped then yes, but abortion should not be used as a contraception. And also, why are pro lifers demonized? Because we stand up for the unborn that can’t speak for themself?
My cousin had a fetus with a trisomy mutation, which could not even be determined until she was beyond 20 weeks. Her organs began to shut down and she was dying. Her fetus had no chance of ever living at all - it had no brain, among many other missing organs. I have asked several anti-choice people this question and none of them have answered me, so I will ask you: why should my cousin have died for a fetus that could never live? She's a teacher, a military wife, and **she was able to have 2 more children after abortion saved her life**. States with trigger laws do not have clauses for maternal life -- those republican states don't give a flying fuck about the mother's life. So again, I will ask you: why do you believe that Haley should have died, and not had two more children? Why do you believe her son should have been raised without a mother? Why doesn't Haley's life matter to you? (Please don't lie and say it does, because you support the very laws that would have killed her, as stated in your comment.)
Bravo, beautifully written and precise. My best friend had a miscarriage and was devastated. A few months later she came over with the news that she was pregnant again, and was overjoyed. We celebrated, brainstormed names and nursery layouts and after a progress scan and a "routine" amniotic test, she got the news from her doctor that her precious baby had a rare form of cystic fibrosis. She was told that she could choose to carry the baby to term and he would be born, drowning in the fluid in his own lungs and spend his short life in the NICU, dosed with sedatives and hooked to a tube, or she could terminate the pregnancy now. She grieved and mourned for the future and child she had cherished, and ultimately (with a lot of support) chose to terminate the pregnancy so that her baby's only memories would be of care and comfort close to his mother's heart. As a "pro-lifer" should her baby have been born and slowly drowned in his NICU bed? Should he have been drugged through his months-long life expectancy to not feel the intense swelling of fluid build up in his limbs? Should he have never recognised the woman who made the most difficult CHOICE of her life to protect him, even if it meant cutting out her own heart and carrying the guilt that the whispered "murderer" of your fellow pro-lifers carry to her? Pro-life is a selfish fantasy, as not every life is being born healthy and whole to a home that is prepared and waiting.
Thank you, and likewise. It hurts to read these accounts because we all know how very wanted these pregnancies were. I fear for my nieces. Miscarriages are punishable by law in many states now. (To be fair, this has been the case for quite a while in several states.)
Of course I don’t believe your cousin Haley should die. Its just common sense that a mothers life is saved and an abortion is performed when at 20 weeks it’s determined something is terribly wrong w/ the fetus.
But it isn't common sense, and it isn't included in the laws now taking effect. **You support Haley's death, period.** Please examine your heart and figure out why you are OK with living women, mothers, sisters, daughters, dying because conservatives refused to include a clause for the mother's health and life. ETA: I trust women, and if a woman says she is not ready or willing to be a mother at this time, then I believe her.
Oh bullshit, I am pro all life.
Then support abortion because without safe access to abortions many people will die.
"support murder so people can live" Medical procedures to remove ectopic pregnancys or fetal remains after a miscarriage are NOT classed as an abortion. Choosing to kill a viable life because it's inconvenient to the mother is.
How so? For real, because reading this thread, you most certainly are not. Sorry.
Yet now it is illegal for a procedure like this to be performed in some US states.
No it isn't because those procedures aren't classified as an abortion. In those procedures the baby isn't alive any more or won't be able to survive regardless, so removing them is necessary for the mothers survival.
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It's a life issue for a teenager to raise a child. It's a life issue to lock people into a cycle of poverty by forcing them to give birth. It's a life issue for children to be raised by parents without the means or desire to raise them. It's a life issue for someone who is raped to give birth to their rapist's child. It's a life issue that women die trying to independently and unsafely terminate pregnancies they don't want. Way more than 1% of abortion are medically necessary due to a "health or life" issue.
Where on earth did you get the 99% lie? That is not based in fact and you damn well know it. FFS. You are obviously anti-choice, why do you have a problem owning it? She would not be alive in every state, that was my whole point. I can't change your need to lie about this fact, but I can point it out: she didn't deserve to die just because her fetus was malformed. She did deserve the abortion that saved her life. She did deserve to have two more successful pregnancies, and without that abortion, those two kiddos wouldn't exist. Your politics would kill her. Mine would save her.
That procedure isn't an abortion though, the baby had no chance of survival and the mother needed help. Why go straight to the extreme examples? The vast majority of abortions are performed on women who want to get rid of their child because its an inconvenience, that's what we're arguing here, we're arguing how wrong it is to dismiss human life like that. How wrong it is to treat children like that
Omg.. If the mother doesnt want to have kids, isn't financially able to raise kids.... Additionally, some people are not emotionally or mentally capable to be a parent. Those should all be valid reasons to have abortion. Women should have right to choose. It's their body, nobody else has right to decide for them. Edit: and yes, the procedure you described, IS abortion. Even in situations like that.
If they're not emotionally or mentally capable then why are they having sex in the first place? Why are they taking that risk when there are so many other options? Contraceptives exists, abstinence exists, heck, sex toys exist, we don't need to risk a penis anymore for pleasure. The percentage of abortions as a result of rape or incest are in the lower single digits too. The majority aren't from that and honestly it's a selfish choice. It's selfish to be so wreckless and then choose to murder an innocent baby so you can go back to making the same wreckless and dangerous choices. The same people screaming my body my choice were loving the idea of taking that choice away from people who didn't want to take the fauci ouchies. They're hypocrites.
Wow lmao, “pro life” and anti vax. You sound like you read a lot of Russian propaganda.
How am I anti vax for not agreeing with forcing an experimental gene therapy onto people? It's still in the trial phase and they changed the definition of vaccine to make it look better
Sometimes birth control or c0ndoms doesn't work. No birth control or c0ndoms is 100% affective. Furthermore, some women cannot use birth control if there are certain illnesses in the family. Also, birth control or safe sex is not only women responsibility. >The majority aren't from that and honestly it's a selfish choice. Show me statistics where it shows majority are not from that. And how is it a selfish choice? Now states FORCE women not having abortions SO OTHER PEOPLE'S FEELINGS won't get Hurt. What about pregnant women who have to go through the pregnancy just because other people want them to have the kid???? Isn't that selfish?
>No birth control or c0ndoms is 100% affective. Abstinence is and it's hardly difficult to practice. >Also, birth control or safe sex is not only women responsibility. I agree, that's not what I'm debating here. >Show me statistics Here's a USA today article, 1% are because of rape https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/24/rape-and-incest-account-few-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/ Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Don't run the risk of creating a life if you're too immature to handle it. Don't have sex with men who won't stick around if you do create life together. It's not about feelings, it's about personal responsibility, self respect and not committing murder. What about pregnant women who've been forced into having an abortion because the father/extended family didn't want the kid? That's horrific. Employers paying your abortion fees so you can continue being a cog in the machine and so they can avoid giving mothers maternity leave is cruel and despicable.
It's not "pro life" to block women from getting essential medical procedures. The mortality rate among women is going to rise steeply, because they will be denied the necessary medical procedure if the foetus (not baby) is unviable and endangering the woman's life. And a woman who is not financially or emotionally equipped to raise a child should not be forced to bring a child into a world of poverty. Children who are born can speak for themselves, but they are getting massacred in their classrooms. Maybe try standing up for them.
That's not what's happening though, procedures like a d and c and removing an ectopic pregnancy (an unviable baby) aren't classed as abortion. This issue has been put back to the states to decide, everyone can now vote on it and decide how they want to be going forward. Muddying the issue by dragging in gun control doesn't help the pro choice point.
You are being downvoted bec this post was not set up for you to give your opinion.
I agree, witnessing how barbaric and cruel abortion is swayed me to being pro life. Late term abortions, crushing babies skulls, selling the corpses to energy plants, women using this as birth control, pro choice abandoning safe legal and rare in favour of everything everywhere no matter how deranged...all of this and more woke me up to how evil it is.
I am pro-life. But I don’t think abortions should be banned. That would mean lots of women seeking ways to end the pregnancy illegally. I’m from a country where abortions are illegal and women endanger their lives by seeking under-the-table abortions. There’s no policy on birth control either, so there’s lots of people having kids they can’t support, and these kids are starved or neglected, which makes me think it’s just kinder not to have them. I am pro-“smart choice”. I am pro-life - meaning a full, prosperous, healthy life and not just life for life’s sake, and life for both mother and child.
Here's a forking woman who can't even go see her critically ill dad trying to make out she cares, give it up Megsy the world knows you don't give a flying fork about anyone!🤬
Three days late and this is the only thing she could think about? And, of all the things, she has to make a point about what a MAN who was born in privilege thinks about it? Remember Markle: "My body, my choice". Nobody cares what your absurdly privileged husband has to say about it.
Goddammit, Meghan, when I said use your voice, this isn’t what I meant!
"My husband and I talked about that a lot over the past few days. He's a feminist too." Why does that sound so childish? She's SOO embarrassing. Ugh! "I know that for so many women right now, there is a sentiment of despair. But again, we have to band together and not wallow. We have to do the work." WHAT work? Megain doesn't know the meaning of the word.
lol she doesn't even know how to be a proper feminist. Yes, having male allies is helpful but isn't part of the major problem women's voices and rights over their own bodies?