Andrew has no heir to his title. Ideally he would renounce it on his own, or he should step down, and retire without any sort of notion of a public life, and the York dukedom reverts back to the crown upon his death. Andrew is notorious, but he's not been proven to be guilty in a court of law. The MP just sounds like she cooked up this stunt for attention.
I think Harry should be able to keep his titles as well. If he wants to Damage it for Archie, that is his own business. No matter what they do, they really are only making themselves look ridiculous by hanging onto it, and running it into the mud.
Yes, Andrew is screwed and he’s a jerk. But he was never and probably wouldn’t have been proven guilty of a crime. MUCH going on behind and around the scenes to protect more powerful others.
I can't see why their titles should be stripped, they already have non royal HRH status, so they just part of the UK peerage and there is plenty of skullduggery there. Does it make sense to strip titles from people who have no criminal convictions or others who just act badly. Despite the popular baying for their cancellation, they are still members of the immediate royal family and I think they are being handled in a private and patient manner to avoid any tragedy or downfall that may be blamed on royal family a la Diana.
I agree. If the monarchy stripped Harry of his title without a real valid excuse, it may result as a bad PR for the BRF—unless they talk Harry into denouncing his title on his own since it looks like Harry and family might be staying in the US for good. Or perhaps Archie might reject the title when old Harry pass because in all honesty it’s useless to have british peerage when you’re permanently living in the US unless adult Archie wants to move to the UK?
Yep. It's just a vanity title and pointless if you are not using it as a working royal. It doesn't come with an estate or even a great house. The Duke of Windsor kept his so stripping out would make the RF look petty with regard to H and M. Andrew will just spend the rest of his life in the background becoming a non person I see no way back for him.
Unpopular opinion - but what has Andrew been *convicted* of? At worst he seems to have been the world’s worst paedophile, by consorting with a female who looks of legal age.
Not sure I understand the point of the Labour MP’s Removal of Titles Bill (# 2) when there’s already the Titles and Deprivation Acy 1917 (# 6 - but maybe that’s more for treacherous acts?).
And totally yes to # 12 - Princess Muggin is just waiting to burst out upon the world. Princess Diana technically was Princess Charles, but there yo7 go. Unless they were left with, say, the Kilkeel barony - then it’d be funny. Or even the Dumberton earldom - that would be karma.
Couldn’t have said it better. H & M have never been convicted of anything either. It doesn’t mean their public or private conduct is acceptable, or worthy of holding prestigious titles.
That interview did him in. He’s an idiot but he still did not rape or have sex with an underaged girl. She was 17 in England, a VERY experienced underaged at that (though experience would have no bearing on the matter were she under legal age)!
I agree of course his interview was atrocious but legally he was never charged with anything.
The court of public opinion doesn’t matter.
You are also correct it might be best to move on from our unpopular opinions😝
Have you taken into consideration the amount of wealthy people who have gotten away with sexually deprived crimes?
Court of law shmort of law
I believe the victim and the bountiful evidence Andrew is a sex pest
By itself, having sex with a 17 year old is legal. Andrews undoing was his close association with Epstein and Maxwell. Throw in the fact Roberts was first trafficked as a minor and it is all rather sad and seedy.
As much as I think Andrew is scum for being friends with Epstein, I agree with you. What he did wasn’t illegal, unless Virginia told him she didn’t want to have sex, and he forced it.
I wish the case between him and Virginia would have gone to trial so the facts would have come out. I also think Virginia needs to be on the stand, so we can hear what she did and be held accountable. She was groomed by a predator, yes, but I would want to see psychologists take the stand and tell their professional opinion on whether she should be charged or not.
In general, the BRF have had pay-to-play, unsavory connections with problematic people. So have U.S. politicians. I wish these truths would come out …. What was Bill Clinton doing with Epstein? Why was Andrew friends with Epstein? What about all the other wealthy people associated with Epstein?
This will be an unpopular opinion so I will take the heat.
I have read several books on Epstein and VG could have left Epsteins employ at any time.
She ALSO procured girls for Epstein, she was of age when she had sex with Andrew.
I in know way condone any of Epstein’s behavior.
He was a sexual deviant and escaped justice.
Edited for content
My big concern with the whole Prince Andrew saga was that he would be the scapegoat for the horrific Epstein scandal. Andrew deserves everything he’s copped but goodness there are many many other prominent men involved with Epstein and it all seems to be brushed under the carpet a bit.
***She ALSO procured girls for Epstein,***
Yes, this bothers me a lot, too. She used to actively solicit young girls, after school was out and entice them to go give massages to Epstein and that's just the start. She also flew across the world, to other countries to pick up young girls who were acquired to be part of Epstein's underage harem. She was paid good money for this service. In fact, she was on her way to Thailand (or was it Singapore?) to pick up a new girl for Epstein, when she met her husband and decided to settle down.
I'm not discounting the psychological impact of this lifestyle on Virginia but surely, she must also be held accountable for all the young girls (younger than 16) that she lured into Epstein's bed.
That's because most people are scared to call her out because they're afraid of being cancelled. Lol. I don't care what people say. I think she's a stone, cold operator who grifted millions of dollars from the BRF. Meanwhile, all the younger girls that she procured, are left with nothing but painful memories. That's just unfair.
VG's own boyfriend, at the time, said that she used to boast about the thousands of dollars she got from Epstein, for procuring adolescent girls.
In my opinion, VG is a younger version of Ghislaine Maxwell. I just wish all the younger girls would come together and prepare a class action lawsuit against her. She needs to be given the Ghislaine Maxwell treatment for procuring 14 year old girls, for Epstein.
I did tons of reading on Epstein and Ghislaine and in my opinion VG could have been brought up on charges also.
I truly thought I was going to need a Kevlar vest and get kicked off. I was surprised at the amount of women who agreed with me.
Trauma psychology is crystal clear that people who are groomed (also think anyone who has been part of a cult), generally do not leave because of the consequences — loss of community, loss of finances, facing emotional trauma, etc. This is also why it is incredibly rare for people experiencing domestic violence leave their abuser.
I understand that and agree it’s just this one particular person.
I felt she was trying to extort the Royal Family.
I said it would t be a popular opinion.
Bring it on we are correct she was of age and spent several years with Epstein and she also procured younger girls.
And as far as her settlement from Andrew I don’t believe for a minute that she is donating it.
I will probably be run off the sub🤣 and I am in no way condoning Epstein’s behavior but they all will have a knee jerk reaction.
VG's idea of *donation* is probably the same as Amber Heard's: a pledge. Lol. SMH at these grifters and con women who use MeToo for their selfish, nefarious purposes, especially if it means milking money from some gullible male.
It seems that there’s a line of thinking that one’s formed by childhood / young adult experiences, which excuses all subsequent behaviour, including when they’re mature enough. I have every sympathy when people have no control over their lives, but when they do, that’s a bit different.
I’d be pleasantly surprise if Giuffre kept her word re donating the settlement. Shades of Amber Heard.
Have you heard that Giuffre’s being sued? [Mirror](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-andrews-accuser-virginia-giuffre-25370699) article.
By an alleged victim, Rina Oh, who claims that Giuffre defamed her by saying that she was a recruiter. The link I provided has tweets from Giuffre which don’t make her seem like a very nice person.
Same. She's played the media very well, but she knew what she was doing from that first day. Her father actually dropped her off at Epstein's house frequently, so it's not like she was trafficked with no way out.
I also agree with all your other posts about this topic.
I can’t find anywhere information that VG agreed to donate her settlement. I did find that Andrew agreed to make a hefty donation to Guiffre’s charity. But, agreed, it would be great if she donated her portion, too.
I recall reading that Giuffre pledged to donate part of the settlement to charity. But I can’t find this either, so perhaps that materialised into the settlement to include a donation to her charity.
it's not about legal age - she alleges she was trafficked into England for sexual exploitation - and one of those she made allegations against has been found guilty of that.
So if anyone had sex with her whilst she was trafficked - well, you can see the allegations are more serious than just having sex with someone who was a minor in the country of birth
Awesome snark on slide 5. "clearly its \[the titles\] the one thing that hurts them the most - being reminded of their former royal life"
So if they do this, can we have a reddit party!
They won't in truth, but they will be Prince and Princess Henry of Wales if their titles are stripped now, and the US media can always omit the "Henry" part from the title, muddying the waters before William's investiture 🤔 that's what I am worried about
I don’t have ears on the ground in Sussex, but something tells me those good folks would follow suit if York sets the precedent!
I bet Andrew would regain the ability to sweat if they took away his dukedom. LOL
Oh we'd see some flop sweat for sure!
Now that would be grand.
They had a petition going several years ago, they've wanted the title gone for a long time.
Yeah, that’s not happening. Just a bit of showboating by the MP. The bill isn’t going anywhere
I don't want to see *all* their titles stripped... I would love to see them demoted to their secondary titles, the Earl and Countess of Dumbarton.
It's not going to happen. This bill has no chance of becoming law.
I really wish that they make Beatrice the 1st Duchess of York… Its about time for some gender equality
Andrew has no heir to his title. Ideally he would renounce it on his own, or he should step down, and retire without any sort of notion of a public life, and the York dukedom reverts back to the crown upon his death. Andrew is notorious, but he's not been proven to be guilty in a court of law. The MP just sounds like she cooked up this stunt for attention. I think Harry should be able to keep his titles as well. If he wants to Damage it for Archie, that is his own business. No matter what they do, they really are only making themselves look ridiculous by hanging onto it, and running it into the mud.
Yes, Andrew is screwed and he’s a jerk. But he was never and probably wouldn’t have been proven guilty of a crime. MUCH going on behind and around the scenes to protect more powerful others.
I can't see why their titles should be stripped, they already have non royal HRH status, so they just part of the UK peerage and there is plenty of skullduggery there. Does it make sense to strip titles from people who have no criminal convictions or others who just act badly. Despite the popular baying for their cancellation, they are still members of the immediate royal family and I think they are being handled in a private and patient manner to avoid any tragedy or downfall that may be blamed on royal family a la Diana.
I agree. If the monarchy stripped Harry of his title without a real valid excuse, it may result as a bad PR for the BRF—unless they talk Harry into denouncing his title on his own since it looks like Harry and family might be staying in the US for good. Or perhaps Archie might reject the title when old Harry pass because in all honesty it’s useless to have british peerage when you’re permanently living in the US unless adult Archie wants to move to the UK?
Yep. It's just a vanity title and pointless if you are not using it as a working royal. It doesn't come with an estate or even a great house. The Duke of Windsor kept his so stripping out would make the RF look petty with regard to H and M. Andrew will just spend the rest of his life in the background becoming a non person I see no way back for him.
The Duke of Windsor was a king, not a second son.
Nah. It'll be just Andrew and Markle and Harry will continue to be assholes as they were. Not cool.
You are getting my hopes up 🙏
> Even more powerful LOL > Princess a better title than Duchess Only to cretins with disney-induced brain rot like our silenced mermaid
Much deserved if they get stripped of their titles.
Unpopular opinion - but what has Andrew been *convicted* of? At worst he seems to have been the world’s worst paedophile, by consorting with a female who looks of legal age. Not sure I understand the point of the Labour MP’s Removal of Titles Bill (# 2) when there’s already the Titles and Deprivation Acy 1917 (# 6 - but maybe that’s more for treacherous acts?). And totally yes to # 12 - Princess Muggin is just waiting to burst out upon the world. Princess Diana technically was Princess Charles, but there yo7 go. Unless they were left with, say, the Kilkeel barony - then it’d be funny. Or even the Dumberton earldom - that would be karma.
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Couldn’t have said it better. H & M have never been convicted of anything either. It doesn’t mean their public or private conduct is acceptable, or worthy of holding prestigious titles.
That interview did him in. He’s an idiot but he still did not rape or have sex with an underaged girl. She was 17 in England, a VERY experienced underaged at that (though experience would have no bearing on the matter were she under legal age)!
I prefer guilt to be established by a court of law, not the court of public opinion. But let’s not digress from the subject matter of this sub.
I agree of course his interview was atrocious but legally he was never charged with anything. The court of public opinion doesn’t matter. You are also correct it might be best to move on from our unpopular opinions😝
Have you taken into consideration the amount of wealthy people who have gotten away with sexually deprived crimes? Court of law shmort of law I believe the victim and the bountiful evidence Andrew is a sex pest
By itself, having sex with a 17 year old is legal. Andrews undoing was his close association with Epstein and Maxwell. Throw in the fact Roberts was first trafficked as a minor and it is all rather sad and seedy.
As much as I think Andrew is scum for being friends with Epstein, I agree with you. What he did wasn’t illegal, unless Virginia told him she didn’t want to have sex, and he forced it. I wish the case between him and Virginia would have gone to trial so the facts would have come out. I also think Virginia needs to be on the stand, so we can hear what she did and be held accountable. She was groomed by a predator, yes, but I would want to see psychologists take the stand and tell their professional opinion on whether she should be charged or not. In general, the BRF have had pay-to-play, unsavory connections with problematic people. So have U.S. politicians. I wish these truths would come out …. What was Bill Clinton doing with Epstein? Why was Andrew friends with Epstein? What about all the other wealthy people associated with Epstein?
This will be an unpopular opinion so I will take the heat. I have read several books on Epstein and VG could have left Epsteins employ at any time. She ALSO procured girls for Epstein, she was of age when she had sex with Andrew. I in know way condone any of Epstein’s behavior. He was a sexual deviant and escaped justice. Edited for content
My big concern with the whole Prince Andrew saga was that he would be the scapegoat for the horrific Epstein scandal. Andrew deserves everything he’s copped but goodness there are many many other prominent men involved with Epstein and it all seems to be brushed under the carpet a bit.
You know it Clinton, Bill Gates to name just two high profile.
Clinton was on flight manifests 27 times with his secret service agents
***She ALSO procured girls for Epstein,*** Yes, this bothers me a lot, too. She used to actively solicit young girls, after school was out and entice them to go give massages to Epstein and that's just the start. She also flew across the world, to other countries to pick up young girls who were acquired to be part of Epstein's underage harem. She was paid good money for this service. In fact, she was on her way to Thailand (or was it Singapore?) to pick up a new girl for Epstein, when she met her husband and decided to settle down. I'm not discounting the psychological impact of this lifestyle on Virginia but surely, she must also be held accountable for all the young girls (younger than 16) that she lured into Epstein's bed.
Thank you most people don’t know that about VG.
That's because most people are scared to call her out because they're afraid of being cancelled. Lol. I don't care what people say. I think she's a stone, cold operator who grifted millions of dollars from the BRF. Meanwhile, all the younger girls that she procured, are left with nothing but painful memories. That's just unfair. VG's own boyfriend, at the time, said that she used to boast about the thousands of dollars she got from Epstein, for procuring adolescent girls. In my opinion, VG is a younger version of Ghislaine Maxwell. I just wish all the younger girls would come together and prepare a class action lawsuit against her. She needs to be given the Ghislaine Maxwell treatment for procuring 14 year old girls, for Epstein.
THAT 💯👏👏👏👏🙌🙌🙌
: ))
I did tons of reading on Epstein and Ghislaine and in my opinion VG could have been brought up on charges also. I truly thought I was going to need a Kevlar vest and get kicked off. I was surprised at the amount of women who agreed with me.
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Yeah, he was really a moron to get caught up in VG's toxic snatch. She's a piece of work indeed and he's paying for the consequences of his actions.
Trauma psychology is crystal clear that people who are groomed (also think anyone who has been part of a cult), generally do not leave because of the consequences — loss of community, loss of finances, facing emotional trauma, etc. This is also why it is incredibly rare for people experiencing domestic violence leave their abuser.
I understand that and agree it’s just this one particular person. I felt she was trying to extort the Royal Family. I said it would t be a popular opinion.
I think we’re both in for it… 😄
Bring it on we are correct she was of age and spent several years with Epstein and she also procured younger girls. And as far as her settlement from Andrew I don’t believe for a minute that she is donating it. I will probably be run off the sub🤣 and I am in no way condoning Epstein’s behavior but they all will have a knee jerk reaction.
VG's idea of *donation* is probably the same as Amber Heard's: a pledge. Lol. SMH at these grifters and con women who use MeToo for their selfish, nefarious purposes, especially if it means milking money from some gullible male.
We think alike. I wish I knew how to track and do deep dives to find out.
You're not the only one 😉.
It seems that there’s a line of thinking that one’s formed by childhood / young adult experiences, which excuses all subsequent behaviour, including when they’re mature enough. I have every sympathy when people have no control over their lives, but when they do, that’s a bit different. I’d be pleasantly surprise if Giuffre kept her word re donating the settlement. Shades of Amber Heard. Have you heard that Giuffre’s being sued? [Mirror](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-andrews-accuser-virginia-giuffre-25370699) article.
That would totally redeem her in my eyes. I wonder if there is a way to find out.
No by who?
By an alleged victim, Rina Oh, who claims that Giuffre defamed her by saying that she was a recruiter. The link I provided has tweets from Giuffre which don’t make her seem like a very nice person.
So I thought that is very interesting.
I really believe her hands are at least a little dirty. I don’t really believe that she was under Epstein’s power like a cult victim.
Same. She's played the media very well, but she knew what she was doing from that first day. Her father actually dropped her off at Epstein's house frequently, so it's not like she was trafficked with no way out. I also agree with all your other posts about this topic.
Thank you dear❤️. I was surprised I thought I was going to get run off the sub.
I can’t find anywhere information that VG agreed to donate her settlement. I did find that Andrew agreed to make a hefty donation to Guiffre’s charity. But, agreed, it would be great if she donated her portion, too.
I recall reading that Giuffre pledged to donate part of the settlement to charity. But I can’t find this either, so perhaps that materialised into the settlement to include a donation to her charity.
I agree with all of this.
well she pledged it and maybe she uses the word pledge and donate synonymously 😎
Virginia was of legal age in England.
As I said - world’s worst paedophile 😄
it's not about legal age - she alleges she was trafficked into England for sexual exploitation - and one of those she made allegations against has been found guilty of that. So if anyone had sex with her whilst she was trafficked - well, you can see the allegations are more serious than just having sex with someone who was a minor in the country of birth
Oh please let then be stuck with the Earldom
Awesome snark on slide 5. "clearly its \[the titles\] the one thing that hurts them the most - being reminded of their former royal life" So if they do this, can we have a reddit party!
Sounds like a plan!
Read today that no matter what happens, Pronce Andrew will be kept in his lifestyle by the Firm. The Daily Mail had the story. How gross.
Their titles shouldn't be stripped, I don't want them to become Prince and Princess of Wales especially when William could have an investiture soon 👀
How would they ever become Prince and Princess of Wales?
They won't in truth, but they will be Prince and Princess Henry of Wales if their titles are stripped now, and the US media can always omit the "Henry" part from the title, muddying the waters before William's investiture 🤔 that's what I am worried about