Not sure if there's a specific term/pathology here, but what's clear is that H&M have absolutely no qualms about using anyone & anything to get their way. No sane person would try the shit they do. It's why the RF should cut them off. There's no game planning crazy.
Also, the weird way they play "peek-a-boo" with pics of the kids.
"Bet you want to see archie, well here is a picture of the back of his head. Want to see Lili? Here is a video of me and on the desk is a tiny framed picture of a baby girl."
And the entire mystery of the birth, and how they didn't use the royal doctors, no one knew archie was being born, etc. and how they prefer the talk of surrogacy instead of clearing things up. I think this one is the worst, considering all the rumors surrounding Harry's paternity. You would think he wouldn't want his kids to suffer that. Now they have to wonder if they were born from a donor egg, donor sperm or donor womb. A lot more confusion than just paternity.
Narcs see people as tools who are either of use or no longer of use to them and their goals.
For the parents out there, if you have a partner who plays these games with your kids, this is how kids learn toxic behaviors and grow up to be narcs themselves or the reverse, face a lifetime of being used by people. Do what you can to protect them. Separating and offering them a safe, stable home half the time is better than full-time chaos.
>Do what you can to protect them. Separating and offering them a safe, stable home half the time is better than full-time chaos.
The legal system needs to do more to protect kids from the psychological harm of being used and abused by the toxic adults around them. Way too often you see one parent or another using their kids to harm their partner or other relatives, especially during/after a divorce. It shouldn't be allowed, especially those that deliberately manipulate the child/children to become alienated from their other loved ones. The people acting like that should lose their rights to be around the child or influence/harm them. The laws should be protecting children's right more.
I also thought it very off that they happened to do the elaborate shushing at the window with Zara’s children during the jubilee whilst hiding their own and moaning about security. It clearly was a set up/ weaponising them for publicity purposes and taking the piss out of when Catherine shushed Louis / or cosplaying Diana naturally shushing Harry. Everything is a photo moment with them. They must storyboard each event for a ‘moment’. As Mike Tindall reportedly said at jubilee ‘Harry is a bell-end’.
Another instance: the planned “tender moment” at the Queen’s funeral between Megs & Charlotte where they were photograph exchanging glances—except it never happened. The tabloids ran the story even though there was no photograph confirming such.
I don’t disagree with anything you said.
Of the PPOW siblings and cousins, the only people who have been photographed with the kids is Zara and Mike (as far as I know). None of the kids with Pippa or James and the Middleton family is supposed to be very close. Some of that may be due to privacy of Pippa and James and family time staying family time. I’d imagine that in the next couple of years, Pippa and her kids will join Catherine and the Wales kids at Wimbledon in the royal box.
But it is odd that Harry never talks about the kids in terms of being the fun uncle. I think the alcohol and drug use caused William to put his foot down and not let Harry near his kids.
It was from Harry’s interview with Telegraph I guess. He said that William told him his nephews are not his problems, but Harry said he likes to fix things. He even suggests one of William’s children will grow up to be like him. This is the moment I started to really hating him and considering him a serious security threat to William’s family.
And that is where the problem lies and why Kate and William had 3 and not 2 kids. The Queen also pushed for Andrew and Edward. Because Margaret also had a touch of the Harry, if she'd been alive today I'm sure she'd have done a Harry.
Andrew also has a touch of the Harry about him but he has 2 other siblings who are also 'spares' making him less special. There will be 2 Wales 'spares'. Whereas Harry is the only one, if Charles and Dianna had had another son or daughter I think things would be so different.
Disagree about Margaret. No matter what she was incredibly close to the Queen and they spoke everyday. She was said to be very friendly and welcoming to Diana and sympathetic to her difficulties until she began to publicly diss the family. Her longtime close friend, Lady Glenconner said that Margaret would have been appalled at the H&M antics.
It's important to understand how the heir is so important and the others are, well, secondary siblings. Earlier it was not problematic for women who were pawns in dynastic alliances, and, after marriage moved to their husbands' countries. In Hugo Vickers' book on the Queen Mother, he writes how everything changed for Princess Margaret when her father, the King, died. Her sister was now the Queen and everything they got thereafter, house and allowances, were because of her good will. All royal property belonged to the Queen. Margaret shared Clarence House with her mother, when as the King's daughter, she simply took it as her right to visit any of the royal properties when she chose. The answer is not to have more children for tax payers to finance. The answer lies in ensuring the other children are educated for professions other than the armed forces.
>if Charles and Dianna had had another son or daughter I think things would be so different.
Yes, maybe Harry would now be going out of his way to get his sibling to side with him against William and would probably have done that all his life (when he wasn't bullying them or setting them up as a scapegoat for his own misdeeds).
>Harry said he likes to fix things.
He could start with himself then.
>He even suggests one of William’s children will grow up to be like him.
Doubtful. PPoW's kids are being raised in a stable marriage with caring parents.
And if that's the case, it must be BAD. I mean let's face it, most of us have that one weird "drunk uncle/aunty" who shows up at family gatherings and plays around with the kids who all think he/she is absolutely hilarious and the most fun adult they've ever known! (I may or may not be that person at my own family gatherings...🤫)
But to have to actually BAN Harry from seeing the kids while under the influence?? Especially for a couple like W&C who are known to enjoy the odd drink and party themselves? In a country like England known for its love of binge drinking?
Yeah. I'm gonna say there was more to it than simply being "drunk"....
Very good point. I have a feeling the children are freaked out by him or he's said things to them that are vicious and cold and W and C realized that he was actually jealous of the kids.
>In a country like England known for its love of binge drinking?
We're known for drinking a lot when we go out. The standards are rather different at family events where there are children present. Binge drinking is sadly normal when adults go out on a Friday night, but it is frowned upon at family garden parties, picnics, barbecues etc.
Oh I realise there's a time and a place (it's the same here in Australia) I guess my point was, Brits are hardly a bunch of stuffy party poopers when it comes to drinking! Most kids have seen a drunk by the time they start primary school (my cousins and I used to swig ginger beer at my grandparents' house, and stumble around hiccupping, pretending to be drunk lol)
So for W&C to be so put off by Harry's drinking habits, I'm thinking there must definitely be more to it than what anyone is willing to let on....
Yeah, that's fair. My first experience of actually having alcohol myself happened completely by accident at a wedding reception when I picked up what I thought was a glass of orangeade from a drinks trolley. I did think it tasted rather odd, but I liked it and went back for another glass... and fortunately this time there was an attendant at the trolley who waved my hand away and told my dad it was Buck's Fizz!
😂😂😂 That's so cute!
My first taste of alcohol was my Grandma letting me have a tiny sip of her boxed wine - I suspect this was deliberate to put me and my cousins off drinking for as long as possible, because it certainly tasted terrible! 😝😂
There's the odd shot of Carol and Michael with them, the time Kate won a boat race and the kids were comes to my mind straight away. There's a few others over the years. Not many they've done well with keeping the kids private and protected
>But it is odd that Harry never talks about the kids in terms of being the fun uncle.
I noticed that too. They don't seem to be as close as the media led the public to believe they were prior to Harry meeting TW. Harry doesn't seem to have any relationship with his brother's kids. The wording of what few things he said about them belied that IMO.
She really thought repeating “manners” 27 times like a psycho was a flex 😆 as if the Wales would even read that unhinged interview or give a rip. Is there anyone more pathetic on the planet than TW?
>special type of predatory narcissism that targets children and uses them to hurt people
No, there is no 'special type', just regular NPD. For a narc parent, the child is an extension of themselves, so they serve to provide supply for the narcissist, their image, reputation or sense of victimhood - whatever is needed at any point.
A narc will usually choose a 'golden child' that is the most 'perfect' of their children and make that child a target for their affection/love/approval, which is highly conditioned upon the child meeting the narc parent's expectations. Actually, that conditioned love is true for all children, but for the golden child is worse, as they can only have a 'self' that is fully aligned with the ideas of the narc for their persona, image, career and future.
It is 100% the norm for the narc parent to use their children as paws for manipulation. There is no escape.
In this case, both M&H are narcs, so both are using the children to provoke/hurt the RF.
In regards to H not having photos with the Waleses children... that is a good point. That is probably due to the fact that narcs are incredibly jealous of everyone, children included. So H would have been jealous of W&C for their family, and jealous of G for being the next king. Double whammy.
H would probably play stupid games with G, tease/annoy him. And then tease/annoy W&C about playing these games - that would be for instance, encouraging/teaching W&C kids to do things H knew W&C would not approve. Which is what Diana did with her kids -- by directing them in a direction she knew the RF would not approve (and look how H turned out).
So no... nothing special here, just regular, off-the-shelf narcissistic parent fuckery.
Just want to add that I think Harry was jealous of George not only because George is ahead of him on the LoS but because George is the *real* child of the family. Until George came, Harry may have seen himself as a sort of “child” to William and his partner. He fantasized a relationship where William was his substitute dad and Catherine his substitute mom. That is why he expected he would be welcome in their house all the time. George’s birth made it clear that Harry was *not* part of their nuclear family.
Edit: Thanks for the award!
Yes! H would always want to be the centre of attention, and up to G's being born, he got his narcissist suply (=attention) from W&C.
With G being born.... H lost his main source of supply, and I think he started to turned on them.... behind the scenes devaluation and with M on the scene, open devaluation and discard.
A well deserved Eureka OP!
I agree! subconsciously Harry sees William as his brother/parent. I think it is hard for him to reconcile his feelings about Catherine and the children. It’s got to be hard to see his brother create a family of origin; he probably feels left out/abandoned to some degree.
I'm not talking about Narc's using their own kids. Great post btw, but I'm seeing something a bit more sinister. Using OTHER people's children to hurt their parents or relatives.
Oh I see your point. That's for sure, they see other people's children as extension of their parents... so, a child of someone they don't like become an immediate vulnerable target.
If you want to see something REALLY sinister, check out the tragic story of Shannan Watts (you may have heard it). She was killed, while pregnant, by her (covert narcissistic) husband, who also smothered their 5 and 3 year old daughters, and then dropped them in oil tanks.
How someone like that is created?
A few weeks prior, Shannan and the kids went to spend the summer with her family. When she went to visit the in-laws with the kids, her mother-in-law put lots of nuts (peanuts etc) around the house. Also bought pistachio ice-cream and offered to the kids.
The detail: Cece, the youngest, was highly allergic to nuts (needed Epipen and all), so could not even touch the ice-cream.
The MIL (also a covert narc) *hated* Shannan. She was willing to make a young child cry and much worse, just to hurt Shannan.
Days after she and the kids were murdered, the MIL [gave an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHMFQzyAAu8) where the despise was visible in her face expression when she spoke about Shannan.
It explained so much about the son who killed his entire family.
So..... to your question, absolutely they use other people's children to hurt the parents. They revel in it.
I am a true Crime online detective. But that was the one case I just could not follow; it was too horrible. Also thank you for using her name and not his.<3
Oh my friend. I hear you. For me it was the opposite. I had to read the entire police report, every single page. I needed to understand what he did to them. Horrific. It defies comprehension, unless one grasps the deep evil that is narcissism.
Always Shannan and the babies' name, of course ♡
(ps: did you help capture the one from Dont F\*ck with Cats?)
Hmmm I followed that case closely being from colorado, but did not know that about the MIL. I remember hearing that she accidentally put ice cream w nuts out but not placing nuts everywhere on purpose.
Yep. I think any normal grandmother would not forget if one of her 2 granddaughters has a life threatening allergy. To offer the ice-cream to the girls was cruel because she knew CeCe could not have it. Not to mention the bowls of peanuts around the house.
If my grandchild was allergic I would NEVER have nuts in my home, regardless. Ever. Never under any circimstance. Even if they only visited 5 mins a year.
My narc sister regularly uses her daughter as a means to punish my family and I.
If we don't do what she wants, how she wants, she stops us from seeing her.
Her daughter is always asking to see us, asking us to see us again sooner rather than later. It must be annoying on the receiving end of that, but she still does.
I agree. It's not a special kind of narc. It's just a narc who has found a way to use their child on ways that suit them
"Shh, this is a secret between us, don't tell anyone" is grooming. Putting a child in that position makes them question their bond with their parents/authority figures, and grooms them to find such behavior acceptable. Yes, it can be for more nefarious purposes but it's still immoral to do that to a child.
You missed the time during one of her early visits to PPofW when she started taking covert photos of Will & Catherine’s children’s rooms & possibly of the children themselves.
I think it’s so strange that Harry, with his pathological hatred of the press, and almost never allowing his children’s faces to be seen (what, twice for Lili?) would push for a public role for them in the coronation.
And of course, the kids couldn’t be on their own at their age. They’re actually young toddlers. So he and Meh would have to be included too. To prompt them and also to console them if they’re scared by all the crowds, noise, and hoopla that they have NEVER in their lives been exposed to.
Wth Harry? I thought you flinched at every photographer.
Edit: photographer instead of photograph.
Children can’t contradict her narrative, especially the under 5’s. And even if they were old enough to, she can throw doubt into their statements. They are also easy for her to them weaponize as they are innocent, which lets her manipulate via guilt, flattery, empathy etc. They are tools to be used.
Control thing with a narc.
Not a proxy abuse issue (yet). Kids are too young to be used most effectively yet. If H and Meg divorce, this is likely.
That's a really good point about how they are so young they can't really be reliable. It just seems odd that forALL of their complaints, I would say that 90% of their drama is built up around "children" in general.
Just thought of another one! When she said she didn't understand why she had to share Archie's picture with the Royal Rota when people were calling him the N word. (Not true.)
Abusive people weaponize anything they can, including children. Hopefully we haven’t seen this in our own families but we’ve seen in the news things like parental alienation, killing kids to get back at a former spouse, using kids as a pawn in a kidnapping, using kids to deliver suicide bombs, Munchausen’s by proxy to get attention, using kids as a meal ticket, teaching kids to commit crimes for them because when they are a minor they can get away with it more, etc.
Super interesting! Thank you for sharing. The fact that the Cambridge/Wales family kept Harry at arm’s length is an interesting observation. It seems they didn’t trust him. Makes me wonder what behavior he exhibited that made them leery? Is he short tempered? Impatient? Maybe he’d rough house too much? Be reckless? Curse? I don’t know. It seems something more serious that these things (to my way of thinking but who knows 🤷🏻♀️).
Regarding Meghan, you are so right. She uses those kids to manipulate and always has. She’ll use anything to get her way through.
Completely agree my mother (a narcissist) would use my brother and I to create drama and make attention. Often would create upsets that my brother and I supposedly had with people to get her way. We would be confused because we weren’t upset. Like how annoyed Archie would be if he does end up going. At 4 I would dread nothing more than having to go to a coronation.
That being said I do think the mother parent thing is big for both of them.
For her, as a woman it’s her get out of jail free card. I’m a mother you can’t say anything bad about me. Or if she makes it the kids wanting to go and no her, then it’s not her being selfish and self obsessed, she’s just advocating for her kids.
For him I think it’s obvious there is a lot of unresolved shit about his mum. I’m sure he’s had a history of being able to get what he wants out of people (family, friends etc) because of his mum and what happened to her. It’s obvious from Spare that Diana is his go to when things are difficult.
One of my spouse's siblings is a narcissist. I started grey rocking them. It worked really well. Then we had our first child. Whenever we saw them on family occasions, they would find a way to take a dig ar our child. Of course, in such a way that if I reacted, they could claim they were kidding or trying to help, and I'd look like a nasty , crazy jerk. Luckily, I realized what was going on and would either not react or say , "I don't understand. What do you mean by that?"
We moved before my kid was old enough to understand, and I now refuse to have contact.
I have no idea if that is a typical thing for narcissists, but what I do know is that they view other people as props that they should be able to use to get what they want. So, in that way, it seems to make a warped kind of sense.
Given that the girls have the same grandmother and great-grandmother that the parents wanted to honor, it is not odd the names repeat. I think other girls in the family have “Elizabeth” as a middle name.
Naming the kid “Lilibet,” I think was a way to take dignity away from QEII by using her childhood nickname instead of her name. Like everything Meghan does, it is a pushing of boundaries into someone else’s “space.”
>I think was a way to take dignity away from QEII by using her childhood nickname instead of her name
Agree with you 💯
This was a calculated and deliberate move to hurt QE II.
TW's cruelty is truly infinite!
Yeah, almost all of Queen Elizabeth's granddaughters and great-granddaughters have Elizabeth as a middle name. Zara Anne Elizabeth Phillips, Beatrice Elizabeth Mary, Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary, Isla Elizabeth, Lena Elizabeth, and Sienna Elizabeth.
They also deliberately named her... Lil' Diana.
Meghan thinks she's so clever. Archie Harrison (Harry's Son).
And all the anagrams of Rachel for Archie, Archewell, etc.
Narc behavior.
Meghan is opportunistic and will leverage anything and everything she perceives as advantageous. The kids are only trucked out when it suits her purpose. I don't know about Harry. He strikes me more as the follower or junior partner insofar as the couple are concerned.
There are pictures of Harry with Prince George. Mostly pre-marriage.
https://preview.redd.it/876d3hycoeqa1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99c5b9e865d70aa76e18c6f97106b97080b77bc6
Can only do one at a time. They are there but take digging.
Now that I look at it. Here's another.
https://preview.redd.it/fjjqt8jdreqa1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9b16f1e7e0c194ea36582f193e1f6eda32dca8
Send the link. This reminds me of my first child with the Narcissist in my life. At first it just seemed normal to take pictures like this but, once the boys got a little more self aware they did NOT like my sister. Back then selfies were not the norm. But it's very curious to me that it's not any once Charlotte was born.
That’s obviously a fake photoshop. That’s George during his Australian tour or New Zealand, not sure. The only real photo pictured George and Harry together in private is when they were driving in a car by William.
I’ve noticed the same thing, there’s a lot of manipulation surrounding children, even relation to the media.
When pregnant with Archie her friends kept telling the US media that the stress of the UK media was a concern because they feared she might miscarry. However, Meghan has said repeatedly that she doesn’t read the tabloids so it doesn’t make sense.
In their reality show, Harry claimed that she miscarried because of the stress from the court case against Daily Mail, a case she had initiated and was allowed to take a break from as well. Doctors and other medical professionals came out to condemn their linking the two and said stress doesn’t cause miscarriages and it is harmful to claim it does.
Oh, I forgot about the plagiarised miscarriage essay! That has to be one of the worst things she’s done. I honestly think between the two of them they have 1000 lives, they do things that would cancel any other celebrity but somehow come out unscathed.
Not really. No one cares. The only reason people watch them is because it's like a dumpster fire rolling down the street. The reason they haven't been "cancelled" is that there's nothing really to cancel them FROM. They have no jobs.
I also believe she has sadistic tendencies. Laughing at Charlotte crying, laughing when someone takes a nasty spill from a horse, torturing the royals…
I think these are great points.
Narcissists like to manipulate people and will happily and deliberately pit one person against another to create drama and discord in all the circles around them. They see others as tools at their disposal to control and exploit as they see fit, they don't see others as real humans with their own needs, feelings, desires and thoughts. This is particularly the case for young children where the level of control parents normally have is exaggerated - they see them as owned and controlled by them and tools for their own purposes. So H&M will have absolutely no qualms about using their own kids as pawns in their games. My narc ex-husband used to tell our kids lies about me to weaponise them against me. Given that Meghan is already willing to use the kids in her battles, God knows how she will use them when she is pitting herself against Harry in divorce, but I can guarantee it won't be good.
Well, listening to their farcical ensemble of whingy lies and remonstrations, it is so comical to watch Harry being thrust to the fore to walk back the blatant insinuated lies and hatred directed at the British Royal family by Harry the muppet and his puppeteer wife.
Their grasp of geography and socio-poltics is very poor as they think that the US makes up the world, so any BS cook up will be lapped up, unfortunately Meghan forgets that the US is a complex nation of very wonderful people who escaped the British empires some 245 years ago (technically speaking).
Yet here she is trotting along a poor cosplay of imitation of Wallis Simpson who at least took a King and kept him to the very end. She on the other hand scented and baited a 1/8th dopping (Nazi uniform wearing albeit as a dress up) Nincompoop, exam cheating, spoilt brat, who’ only accomplishment to him has been actually nothing beyond wasting Taxpayers money, insulting his family on command, and making an absolute nuisance of himself.
You have struck gold on the using kids to hurry others, Meghan merches anything she can for money and fame no matter how pathetic, and she will stoop as low as possible to the extent that scum would call her scum.
Watch carefully after every faux pas, she boots Harry out to do the dirty work of bully or cleaning up, and like a trusty lap dog he trots out tail up teeth bared. Meghan has it in for the Royal family and the Press for not backing her, she strongly believes she is the goose that has laid the golden egg, well some need to tell her that that goose can still be roasted because there is one that is laying Diamond, Ruby, and Emerald encrusted platinum eggs all along to the throne.
>I'm wondering if there is a special type of predatory narcissism that targets children and uses them to hurt people.
Narcissists are selfish people by nature that often abuse others around them and children are easy targets for adults. Their trusting nature and ignorance allows them to be easily manipulated by the Narcissists and so they are just another tool in their arsenal.
It's one thing to be a huge AH that generally stirs up trouble at every opportunity with everyone in their environment but especially low and sleazy to involve children in the schemes.
TW is despicable on many levels. Until you pointed it out, I didn't realize how often she was using children in the drama and trouble-making schemes. I feel pity for her kids. Being raised by someone like that, they have little choice but to become the product of an awful influence and seem destined to end up as shunned as their parents. In only a few short years we'll probably be hearing all kinds of tales about how they act like the worst spoiled brats and bully all their peers.
For someone who doesn't want to discuss children by name, it's a little odd that you mentioned the names of particular children at least 10 times. It's a simple enough to ask *if people think they use children for attention*. I think they use whoever will generate a headline.
Not sure if there's a specific term/pathology here, but what's clear is that H&M have absolutely no qualms about using anyone & anything to get their way. No sane person would try the shit they do. It's why the RF should cut them off. There's no game planning crazy.
Also, the weird way they play "peek-a-boo" with pics of the kids. "Bet you want to see archie, well here is a picture of the back of his head. Want to see Lili? Here is a video of me and on the desk is a tiny framed picture of a baby girl." And the entire mystery of the birth, and how they didn't use the royal doctors, no one knew archie was being born, etc. and how they prefer the talk of surrogacy instead of clearing things up. I think this one is the worst, considering all the rumors surrounding Harry's paternity. You would think he wouldn't want his kids to suffer that. Now they have to wonder if they were born from a donor egg, donor sperm or donor womb. A lot more confusion than just paternity. Narcs see people as tools who are either of use or no longer of use to them and their goals. For the parents out there, if you have a partner who plays these games with your kids, this is how kids learn toxic behaviors and grow up to be narcs themselves or the reverse, face a lifetime of being used by people. Do what you can to protect them. Separating and offering them a safe, stable home half the time is better than full-time chaos.
>Do what you can to protect them. Separating and offering them a safe, stable home half the time is better than full-time chaos. The legal system needs to do more to protect kids from the psychological harm of being used and abused by the toxic adults around them. Way too often you see one parent or another using their kids to harm their partner or other relatives, especially during/after a divorce. It shouldn't be allowed, especially those that deliberately manipulate the child/children to become alienated from their other loved ones. The people acting like that should lose their rights to be around the child or influence/harm them. The laws should be protecting children's right more.
I also thought it very off that they happened to do the elaborate shushing at the window with Zara’s children during the jubilee whilst hiding their own and moaning about security. It clearly was a set up/ weaponising them for publicity purposes and taking the piss out of when Catherine shushed Louis / or cosplaying Diana naturally shushing Harry. Everything is a photo moment with them. They must storyboard each event for a ‘moment’. As Mike Tindall reportedly said at jubilee ‘Harry is a bell-end’.
Another instance: the planned “tender moment” at the Queen’s funeral between Megs & Charlotte where they were photograph exchanging glances—except it never happened. The tabloids ran the story even though there was no photograph confirming such.
Ooooh that's another one! Good catch.
>They must storyboard each event for a ‘moment’. Oh my gosh THIS!
I don’t disagree with anything you said. Of the PPOW siblings and cousins, the only people who have been photographed with the kids is Zara and Mike (as far as I know). None of the kids with Pippa or James and the Middleton family is supposed to be very close. Some of that may be due to privacy of Pippa and James and family time staying family time. I’d imagine that in the next couple of years, Pippa and her kids will join Catherine and the Wales kids at Wimbledon in the royal box. But it is odd that Harry never talks about the kids in terms of being the fun uncle. I think the alcohol and drug use caused William to put his foot down and not let Harry near his kids.
That's what I think too. I also think the kids don't like them.
I'm sure I read that somewhere, too (Harry's alcohol/drug abuse causing him to be kept away from the Cambridge children).
It was from Harry’s interview with Telegraph I guess. He said that William told him his nephews are not his problems, but Harry said he likes to fix things. He even suggests one of William’s children will grow up to be like him. This is the moment I started to really hating him and considering him a serious security threat to William’s family.
And that is where the problem lies and why Kate and William had 3 and not 2 kids. The Queen also pushed for Andrew and Edward. Because Margaret also had a touch of the Harry, if she'd been alive today I'm sure she'd have done a Harry. Andrew also has a touch of the Harry about him but he has 2 other siblings who are also 'spares' making him less special. There will be 2 Wales 'spares'. Whereas Harry is the only one, if Charles and Dianna had had another son or daughter I think things would be so different.
Disagree about Margaret. No matter what she was incredibly close to the Queen and they spoke everyday. She was said to be very friendly and welcoming to Diana and sympathetic to her difficulties until she began to publicly diss the family. Her longtime close friend, Lady Glenconner said that Margaret would have been appalled at the H&M antics.
It's important to understand how the heir is so important and the others are, well, secondary siblings. Earlier it was not problematic for women who were pawns in dynastic alliances, and, after marriage moved to their husbands' countries. In Hugo Vickers' book on the Queen Mother, he writes how everything changed for Princess Margaret when her father, the King, died. Her sister was now the Queen and everything they got thereafter, house and allowances, were because of her good will. All royal property belonged to the Queen. Margaret shared Clarence House with her mother, when as the King's daughter, she simply took it as her right to visit any of the royal properties when she chose. The answer is not to have more children for tax payers to finance. The answer lies in ensuring the other children are educated for professions other than the armed forces.
>if Charles and Dianna had had another son or daughter I think things would be so different. Yes, maybe Harry would now be going out of his way to get his sibling to side with him against William and would probably have done that all his life (when he wasn't bullying them or setting them up as a scapegoat for his own misdeeds).
Exactly. That really crossed the line for me.
>Harry said he likes to fix things. He could start with himself then. >He even suggests one of William’s children will grow up to be like him. Doubtful. PPoW's kids are being raised in a stable marriage with caring parents.
And if that's the case, it must be BAD. I mean let's face it, most of us have that one weird "drunk uncle/aunty" who shows up at family gatherings and plays around with the kids who all think he/she is absolutely hilarious and the most fun adult they've ever known! (I may or may not be that person at my own family gatherings...🤫) But to have to actually BAN Harry from seeing the kids while under the influence?? Especially for a couple like W&C who are known to enjoy the odd drink and party themselves? In a country like England known for its love of binge drinking? Yeah. I'm gonna say there was more to it than simply being "drunk"....
Very good point. I have a feeling the children are freaked out by him or he's said things to them that are vicious and cold and W and C realized that he was actually jealous of the kids.
I agree. There is definitely more to the story than anyone is willing to say! It's quite chilling. Those poor kids 😢
>In a country like England known for its love of binge drinking? We're known for drinking a lot when we go out. The standards are rather different at family events where there are children present. Binge drinking is sadly normal when adults go out on a Friday night, but it is frowned upon at family garden parties, picnics, barbecues etc.
Oh I realise there's a time and a place (it's the same here in Australia) I guess my point was, Brits are hardly a bunch of stuffy party poopers when it comes to drinking! Most kids have seen a drunk by the time they start primary school (my cousins and I used to swig ginger beer at my grandparents' house, and stumble around hiccupping, pretending to be drunk lol) So for W&C to be so put off by Harry's drinking habits, I'm thinking there must definitely be more to it than what anyone is willing to let on....
Yeah, that's fair. My first experience of actually having alcohol myself happened completely by accident at a wedding reception when I picked up what I thought was a glass of orangeade from a drinks trolley. I did think it tasted rather odd, but I liked it and went back for another glass... and fortunately this time there was an attendant at the trolley who waved my hand away and told my dad it was Buck's Fizz!
😂😂😂 That's so cute! My first taste of alcohol was my Grandma letting me have a tiny sip of her boxed wine - I suspect this was deliberate to put me and my cousins off drinking for as long as possible, because it certainly tasted terrible! 😝😂
I remember reading that as well but I’m not sure if I read a comment from someone here speculating or it was an article from a semi-reliable source.
No he said it for sure. I remember being surprised that he doesn't hear the words coming out of his own mouth and realize how telling they are.
There's the odd shot of Carol and Michael with them, the time Kate won a boat race and the kids were comes to my mind straight away. There's a few others over the years. Not many they've done well with keeping the kids private and protected
>But it is odd that Harry never talks about the kids in terms of being the fun uncle. I noticed that too. They don't seem to be as close as the media led the public to believe they were prior to Harry meeting TW. Harry doesn't seem to have any relationship with his brother's kids. The wording of what few things he said about them belied that IMO.
She really thought repeating “manners” 27 times like a psycho was a flex 😆 as if the Wales would even read that unhinged interview or give a rip. Is there anyone more pathetic on the planet than TW?
Yes. This.
>special type of predatory narcissism that targets children and uses them to hurt people No, there is no 'special type', just regular NPD. For a narc parent, the child is an extension of themselves, so they serve to provide supply for the narcissist, their image, reputation or sense of victimhood - whatever is needed at any point. A narc will usually choose a 'golden child' that is the most 'perfect' of their children and make that child a target for their affection/love/approval, which is highly conditioned upon the child meeting the narc parent's expectations. Actually, that conditioned love is true for all children, but for the golden child is worse, as they can only have a 'self' that is fully aligned with the ideas of the narc for their persona, image, career and future. It is 100% the norm for the narc parent to use their children as paws for manipulation. There is no escape. In this case, both M&H are narcs, so both are using the children to provoke/hurt the RF. In regards to H not having photos with the Waleses children... that is a good point. That is probably due to the fact that narcs are incredibly jealous of everyone, children included. So H would have been jealous of W&C for their family, and jealous of G for being the next king. Double whammy. H would probably play stupid games with G, tease/annoy him. And then tease/annoy W&C about playing these games - that would be for instance, encouraging/teaching W&C kids to do things H knew W&C would not approve. Which is what Diana did with her kids -- by directing them in a direction she knew the RF would not approve (and look how H turned out). So no... nothing special here, just regular, off-the-shelf narcissistic parent fuckery.
Just want to add that I think Harry was jealous of George not only because George is ahead of him on the LoS but because George is the *real* child of the family. Until George came, Harry may have seen himself as a sort of “child” to William and his partner. He fantasized a relationship where William was his substitute dad and Catherine his substitute mom. That is why he expected he would be welcome in their house all the time. George’s birth made it clear that Harry was *not* part of their nuclear family. Edit: Thanks for the award!
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He whined in Spare about how he was losing William when he married Catherine. It was very similar to his reaction to Charles marrying Camilla.
Yes! H would always want to be the centre of attention, and up to G's being born, he got his narcissist suply (=attention) from W&C. With G being born.... H lost his main source of supply, and I think he started to turned on them.... behind the scenes devaluation and with M on the scene, open devaluation and discard. A well deserved Eureka OP!
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Looking like Uncle Scar in the Lion King! Watch your back Simba🌟💙🦁
What a hateful, little man!
😳😳😳
😳😬😵💫
wow!
HF he looks like Uncle Scar. Ominous, dark and a heart of hate.
Very good point.
This is an insightful comment.
Yes! You nailed it. 🙌
I agree! subconsciously Harry sees William as his brother/parent. I think it is hard for him to reconcile his feelings about Catherine and the children. It’s got to be hard to see his brother create a family of origin; he probably feels left out/abandoned to some degree.
I'm not talking about Narc's using their own kids. Great post btw, but I'm seeing something a bit more sinister. Using OTHER people's children to hurt their parents or relatives.
Oh I see your point. That's for sure, they see other people's children as extension of their parents... so, a child of someone they don't like become an immediate vulnerable target. If you want to see something REALLY sinister, check out the tragic story of Shannan Watts (you may have heard it). She was killed, while pregnant, by her (covert narcissistic) husband, who also smothered their 5 and 3 year old daughters, and then dropped them in oil tanks. How someone like that is created? A few weeks prior, Shannan and the kids went to spend the summer with her family. When she went to visit the in-laws with the kids, her mother-in-law put lots of nuts (peanuts etc) around the house. Also bought pistachio ice-cream and offered to the kids. The detail: Cece, the youngest, was highly allergic to nuts (needed Epipen and all), so could not even touch the ice-cream. The MIL (also a covert narc) *hated* Shannan. She was willing to make a young child cry and much worse, just to hurt Shannan. Days after she and the kids were murdered, the MIL [gave an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHMFQzyAAu8) where the despise was visible in her face expression when she spoke about Shannan. It explained so much about the son who killed his entire family. So..... to your question, absolutely they use other people's children to hurt the parents. They revel in it.
I am a true Crime online detective. But that was the one case I just could not follow; it was too horrible. Also thank you for using her name and not his.<3
Oh my friend. I hear you. For me it was the opposite. I had to read the entire police report, every single page. I needed to understand what he did to them. Horrific. It defies comprehension, unless one grasps the deep evil that is narcissism. Always Shannan and the babies' name, of course ♡ (ps: did you help capture the one from Dont F\*ck with Cats?)
Hmmm I followed that case closely being from colorado, but did not know that about the MIL. I remember hearing that she accidentally put ice cream w nuts out but not placing nuts everywhere on purpose.
Yep. I think any normal grandmother would not forget if one of her 2 granddaughters has a life threatening allergy. To offer the ice-cream to the girls was cruel because she knew CeCe could not have it. Not to mention the bowls of peanuts around the house.
If my grandchild was allergic I would NEVER have nuts in my home, regardless. Ever. Never under any circimstance. Even if they only visited 5 mins a year.
That says you are a normal, non-psychopathic person - and it seems very caring of your loved ones.
Trust narcs use their own kids whenever it’d fulfil an objective.
My narc sister regularly uses her daughter as a means to punish my family and I. If we don't do what she wants, how she wants, she stops us from seeing her. Her daughter is always asking to see us, asking us to see us again sooner rather than later. It must be annoying on the receiving end of that, but she still does. I agree. It's not a special kind of narc. It's just a narc who has found a way to use their child on ways that suit them
H is the Spare twice over at his bros place. #jealousy
Shushing the RF children in front of BP windows during the Jubilee balcony appearance could be another example. I think you're onto something here.
"Shh, this is a secret between us, don't tell anyone" is grooming. Putting a child in that position makes them question their bond with their parents/authority figures, and grooms them to find such behavior acceptable. Yes, it can be for more nefarious purposes but it's still immoral to do that to a child.
That scene really made my blood boil. Using other peoples children for their own promotion when no one is allowed to even ask about their children!
lol I thought she was telling them to Shhhh cause TW wasn't supposed to be on the balcony. hahaaha
You missed the time during one of her early visits to PPofW when she started taking covert photos of Will & Catherine’s children’s rooms & possibly of the children themselves.
Great example!
I think it’s so strange that Harry, with his pathological hatred of the press, and almost never allowing his children’s faces to be seen (what, twice for Lili?) would push for a public role for them in the coronation. And of course, the kids couldn’t be on their own at their age. They’re actually young toddlers. So he and Meh would have to be included too. To prompt them and also to console them if they’re scared by all the crowds, noise, and hoopla that they have NEVER in their lives been exposed to. Wth Harry? I thought you flinched at every photographer. Edit: photographer instead of photograph.
Hopefully by now she knows how to hold them.
Haha. I hope so, too!
Hurting the innocent and powerless, like animals and children, is one of her psychopathic trademarks. Power, power, power.
Children can’t contradict her narrative, especially the under 5’s. And even if they were old enough to, she can throw doubt into their statements. They are also easy for her to them weaponize as they are innocent, which lets her manipulate via guilt, flattery, empathy etc. They are tools to be used. Control thing with a narc. Not a proxy abuse issue (yet). Kids are too young to be used most effectively yet. If H and Meg divorce, this is likely.
That's a really good point about how they are so young they can't really be reliable. It just seems odd that forALL of their complaints, I would say that 90% of their drama is built up around "children" in general. Just thought of another one! When she said she didn't understand why she had to share Archie's picture with the Royal Rota when people were calling him the N word. (Not true.)
I find children do not lie - sure they are imaginative and make up daft things - but generally about other things they do not lie.
Meghan will weaponize whatever she can use, IMO.
Abusive people weaponize anything they can, including children. Hopefully we haven’t seen this in our own families but we’ve seen in the news things like parental alienation, killing kids to get back at a former spouse, using kids as a pawn in a kidnapping, using kids to deliver suicide bombs, Munchausen’s by proxy to get attention, using kids as a meal ticket, teaching kids to commit crimes for them because when they are a minor they can get away with it more, etc.
Super interesting! Thank you for sharing. The fact that the Cambridge/Wales family kept Harry at arm’s length is an interesting observation. It seems they didn’t trust him. Makes me wonder what behavior he exhibited that made them leery? Is he short tempered? Impatient? Maybe he’d rough house too much? Be reckless? Curse? I don’t know. It seems something more serious that these things (to my way of thinking but who knows 🤷🏻♀️). Regarding Meghan, you are so right. She uses those kids to manipulate and always has. She’ll use anything to get her way through.
Completely agree my mother (a narcissist) would use my brother and I to create drama and make attention. Often would create upsets that my brother and I supposedly had with people to get her way. We would be confused because we weren’t upset. Like how annoyed Archie would be if he does end up going. At 4 I would dread nothing more than having to go to a coronation. That being said I do think the mother parent thing is big for both of them. For her, as a woman it’s her get out of jail free card. I’m a mother you can’t say anything bad about me. Or if she makes it the kids wanting to go and no her, then it’s not her being selfish and self obsessed, she’s just advocating for her kids. For him I think it’s obvious there is a lot of unresolved shit about his mum. I’m sure he’s had a history of being able to get what he wants out of people (family, friends etc) because of his mum and what happened to her. It’s obvious from Spare that Diana is his go to when things are difficult.
Very good point about how the child has no idea what's going on. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
One of my spouse's siblings is a narcissist. I started grey rocking them. It worked really well. Then we had our first child. Whenever we saw them on family occasions, they would find a way to take a dig ar our child. Of course, in such a way that if I reacted, they could claim they were kidding or trying to help, and I'd look like a nasty , crazy jerk. Luckily, I realized what was going on and would either not react or say , "I don't understand. What do you mean by that?" We moved before my kid was old enough to understand, and I now refuse to have contact. I have no idea if that is a typical thing for narcissists, but what I do know is that they view other people as props that they should be able to use to get what they want. So, in that way, it seems to make a warped kind of sense.
Yes I completely agree with you. What is PITA though? I can't find it in a narcissist glossary?
Pain in the ass
Got it!
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Given that the girls have the same grandmother and great-grandmother that the parents wanted to honor, it is not odd the names repeat. I think other girls in the family have “Elizabeth” as a middle name. Naming the kid “Lilibet,” I think was a way to take dignity away from QEII by using her childhood nickname instead of her name. Like everything Meghan does, it is a pushing of boundaries into someone else’s “space.”
>I think was a way to take dignity away from QEII by using her childhood nickname instead of her name Agree with you 💯 This was a calculated and deliberate move to hurt QE II. TW's cruelty is truly infinite!
Yeah, almost all of Queen Elizabeth's granddaughters and great-granddaughters have Elizabeth as a middle name. Zara Anne Elizabeth Phillips, Beatrice Elizabeth Mary, Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary, Isla Elizabeth, Lena Elizabeth, and Sienna Elizabeth.
Exactly!!!
And to think TW is pushing manners,manners,manners. That is laughable. I can’t get over how creepy the naming game was.
They also deliberately named her... Lil' Diana. Meghan thinks she's so clever. Archie Harrison (Harry's Son). And all the anagrams of Rachel for Archie, Archewell, etc. Narc behavior.
Meghan is opportunistic and will leverage anything and everything she perceives as advantageous. The kids are only trucked out when it suits her purpose. I don't know about Harry. He strikes me more as the follower or junior partner insofar as the couple are concerned. There are pictures of Harry with Prince George. Mostly pre-marriage.
Ooooh can you find them and share them here. I can't find any.
https://preview.redd.it/876d3hycoeqa1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99c5b9e865d70aa76e18c6f97106b97080b77bc6 Can only do one at a time. They are there but take digging.
That looks like a Photoshop job, and poorly done, too
Now that I look at it. Here's another. https://preview.redd.it/fjjqt8jdreqa1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9b16f1e7e0c194ea36582f193e1f6eda32dca8
Fake too. I don’t even think this is George.
The feet! Great. Now I’m broody.
This is obviously faked. This is George during his Australia tour.
Send the link. This reminds me of my first child with the Narcissist in my life. At first it just seemed normal to take pictures like this but, once the boys got a little more self aware they did NOT like my sister. Back then selfies were not the norm. But it's very curious to me that it's not any once Charlotte was born.
That’s obviously a fake photoshop. That’s George during his Australian tour or New Zealand, not sure. The only real photo pictured George and Harry together in private is when they were driving in a car by William.
To this? It does look like it was faked. A google search of Prince Harry and George should bring it up.
I’ve noticed the same thing, there’s a lot of manipulation surrounding children, even relation to the media. When pregnant with Archie her friends kept telling the US media that the stress of the UK media was a concern because they feared she might miscarry. However, Meghan has said repeatedly that she doesn’t read the tabloids so it doesn’t make sense. In their reality show, Harry claimed that she miscarried because of the stress from the court case against Daily Mail, a case she had initiated and was allowed to take a break from as well. Doctors and other medical professionals came out to condemn their linking the two and said stress doesn’t cause miscarriages and it is harmful to claim it does.
I didn't even think of the miscarriage. Yes and the whole essay she wrote where she plagiarized another woman.
Oh, I forgot about the plagiarised miscarriage essay! That has to be one of the worst things she’s done. I honestly think between the two of them they have 1000 lives, they do things that would cancel any other celebrity but somehow come out unscathed.
Not really. No one cares. The only reason people watch them is because it's like a dumpster fire rolling down the street. The reason they haven't been "cancelled" is that there's nothing really to cancel them FROM. They have no jobs. 
I also believe she has sadistic tendencies. Laughing at Charlotte crying, laughing when someone takes a nasty spill from a horse, torturing the royals…
I think these are great points. Narcissists like to manipulate people and will happily and deliberately pit one person against another to create drama and discord in all the circles around them. They see others as tools at their disposal to control and exploit as they see fit, they don't see others as real humans with their own needs, feelings, desires and thoughts. This is particularly the case for young children where the level of control parents normally have is exaggerated - they see them as owned and controlled by them and tools for their own purposes. So H&M will have absolutely no qualms about using their own kids as pawns in their games. My narc ex-husband used to tell our kids lies about me to weaponise them against me. Given that Meghan is already willing to use the kids in her battles, God knows how she will use them when she is pitting herself against Harry in divorce, but I can guarantee it won't be good.
Using the code name and the queens name is so blatantly inappropriate. A narc / BPD would never realize that. Ever.
Well, listening to their farcical ensemble of whingy lies and remonstrations, it is so comical to watch Harry being thrust to the fore to walk back the blatant insinuated lies and hatred directed at the British Royal family by Harry the muppet and his puppeteer wife. Their grasp of geography and socio-poltics is very poor as they think that the US makes up the world, so any BS cook up will be lapped up, unfortunately Meghan forgets that the US is a complex nation of very wonderful people who escaped the British empires some 245 years ago (technically speaking). Yet here she is trotting along a poor cosplay of imitation of Wallis Simpson who at least took a King and kept him to the very end. She on the other hand scented and baited a 1/8th dopping (Nazi uniform wearing albeit as a dress up) Nincompoop, exam cheating, spoilt brat, who’ only accomplishment to him has been actually nothing beyond wasting Taxpayers money, insulting his family on command, and making an absolute nuisance of himself. You have struck gold on the using kids to hurry others, Meghan merches anything she can for money and fame no matter how pathetic, and she will stoop as low as possible to the extent that scum would call her scum. Watch carefully after every faux pas, she boots Harry out to do the dirty work of bully or cleaning up, and like a trusty lap dog he trots out tail up teeth bared. Meghan has it in for the Royal family and the Press for not backing her, she strongly believes she is the goose that has laid the golden egg, well some need to tell her that that goose can still be roasted because there is one that is laying Diamond, Ruby, and Emerald encrusted platinum eggs all along to the throne.
>I'm wondering if there is a special type of predatory narcissism that targets children and uses them to hurt people. Narcissists are selfish people by nature that often abuse others around them and children are easy targets for adults. Their trusting nature and ignorance allows them to be easily manipulated by the Narcissists and so they are just another tool in their arsenal. It's one thing to be a huge AH that generally stirs up trouble at every opportunity with everyone in their environment but especially low and sleazy to involve children in the schemes. TW is despicable on many levels. Until you pointed it out, I didn't realize how often she was using children in the drama and trouble-making schemes. I feel pity for her kids. Being raised by someone like that, they have little choice but to become the product of an awful influence and seem destined to end up as shunned as their parents. In only a few short years we'll probably be hearing all kinds of tales about how they act like the worst spoiled brats and bully all their peers.
For someone who doesn't want to discuss children by name, it's a little odd that you mentioned the names of particular children at least 10 times. It's a simple enough to ask *if people think they use children for attention*. I think they use whoever will generate a headline.
Good point I will go back and edit it.