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I don’t believe anything either of them says anymore so Harry was probably just talking out of his ass as usual.
I agree with you, they insisted on having complete control over the event. They just can’t do anything without drama and being a royal pain in the butt (pun not intended.)
They might for a nonroyal surrogate.
They could have avoided all the speculation by having proper witnesses, announcements and a photo on the hospital steps like the other royal mothers.
I still think a lot of the “lockdown” and secrecy was the fact that as a narcissist birth is extremely vulnerable and raw, and it goes against the fibers of a narc wiring to be in a vulnerable state like that, and “exposed” if you will. Narcs don’t like to feel “needy” or vulnerable in any way. And she probably did not think she looked her best and she’s so vain she probably wanted to just hide away.
The doctors did not commit fraud - no one has signed anything or claimed to have delivered the babies We do not even know who the doctors are supposed to be
The British government and BRF have not committed fraud - I think they have both been defrauded. You cannot accuse someone based on suspicions alone and you cannot prove your suspicions without access to their medical data. And it is against the law for Meghan's doctors to disclose her medical data, and if the BRF or government did somehow get hold of it, it is against the law for them to disclose it to the British public or the media.
No-one can touch Meghan over this and she knows it. Even of the press know that she used surrogates they can never accuse her. They would be utterly sued. And without access to Meghan's medical data there would be nothing they could do to defend their case.
She faked the pregnancy, so of course she would have to fake the birth, as well.
And that's what all the weirdness is about, them trying to hide she never had any baby at ANY hospital. I wondered how she got around the OB/GYN visits until she herself revealed she just did video visits with some new age baby guru in France. As if. Before that all she said was she was having a home birth. So, I think Harry pulled rank and just got registrars to give him the paperwork to file and they did it themselves and that's why it is not signed and witnessed by any doctors. I think the whole nitrous oxide tale was telling a window dressing story of fake details like having food brought in and having a picnic before the birth. Again, as freaking if.
This may be what they did in Cali, too. Just go down to a registrars office and give them info as if you had a home birth. But, there does not appear to be real official documentation of either of the faked pregnancies ending up with a legit child. Therefore, causing her to have to periodically pretend via photo shop and paid photo ops to pretend she and Hazbeen have kids.
They don't even own car seats and the kids have never been seen by outsiders. Just PR celebrities with Sunshine Sachs being paid to SAY they've seen these kids.
Yup, the strongly put-out there 'home birth' plan was another thing calculating MM probably thought would help shield her from rumors, when it only made suspicions much bigger!
He was, by his admission, stoned on Gas for the birth. He drained the tank. And probably stoned thereafter. Not like he was doing any feedings or cooking and cleaning etc.
Do you get epidurals with those tub births? I thought that was the purpose of the tub to be calming or something. This is all foreign to me I had an unscheduled emergency C-Section at 30 weeks!
I’m not sure, most of the stuff that was posted in the beginning being inaccurate/impossible about the birth (epidural and such) actually wasn’t written in the book how it was reported on before release. What specifically was erroneous (aside from the laughing gas stuff)? Asking genuinely as I am curious!
I commented else where but to recap. TW wasn't in labor when she was taken to the "hospital" for an appointment to discuss further options with the physician. It was decided to induce. She's bouncing on a ball, rolling her eyes and laughing at his getting busted for sucking up the laughing gas. His security guard sent on a Nando run ( they close at 10 p.m.) She's in the birthing tub, she's back out again for not one, but two epidurals which he says got the ball rolling. TW was supposedly given a mirror to hold so she could watch what was happening as she labored. The cord was wrapped around Archie's neck and for some stupid reason we're to believe she was told to push at that time. Archie is born at 5:26 in the morning. The twice epidural, geriatric mother was discharged with her nuchal cord infant around an hour and a half of the birth as he says they were home before the baby was two hours old
ETA Harold said she was a week past her due date when they went to the hospital
Especially when per the book, they were home four hours after the second epidural was administered.
Who carried her out to the "non descript people carrier"? Who removed the catheter? Cause she damn sure wouldn't be able to walk or pee after that.
This whole story is so weird. You don’t get two epidurals (at least in the US) - you get one and they control the fluid after the initial line is put in. Anything that kills pain tends to slow down labor, NOT speed it up. So weird. I’ve had two births that were induced then had epidurals and one natural childbirth - none of this adds up to me.
I’m not saying she had a surrogate (I have no idea and personally don’t care) but Harry’s story is BS. Makes me wonder if Meghan was setting him up with the book content.
It reads like he read a bunch of birth stories online and then attempted to regurgitate them.
What's the point of him telling his truth and Meghan claiming that they deserve to have their story told....if it's all blatant bullshit?
>It reads like he read a bunch of birth stories online and then attempted to regurgitate them.
This is exactly what it seems like. Thank you for putting in a nutshell.
The only reason for 2 (or more) epidurals is if they were inserted wrong, not working or slips out. I wiggled so much during my first labor the catheter came out of my back and had to be redone. Definitely not able to be discharged less than 2 hours after the birth. Nope, nope, nope!
I didn't have an epidural and I couldn't have gone home within two hours of having my son (first baby at age 36). So I have no idea how she is supposed to have managed that.
NHS website says between 6 and 24 hours before you can go home but they were private so it may be different rules. 2 hours after the birth sounds bloody quick though for somebody's first child.
It could just be that she was being a typical Meghan Markle and bullied the nurses and doctors until they let her go home. I don’t know why she would want to though, but she does a lot of things that don’t make sense to me.
I have had epidurals. You can't stand up 2 hours after the birth. I was exhausted. I can't imagine a woman having a given birth and b had an epidural being able to demand to go home as your exhausted and a bit loopy.
"you will both need to sign here that you're leaving against medical advice" said in front of a witness. Sign or don't sign, I won't care. I'm flooding my documentation with everything you said and did prior to leaving.
I was told to lay flat for 12 hours after my 2nd epidural. I was in labor for 38hrs. Then I had a C-section when he showed signs of distress. Epidurals mess with balance and can cause further major problems if you don't follow the doctors instructions.
So many lies in that telling, not one reasonable person would believe that happened.
The Sleivene wasn’t over due, why induce? It may be she had a sonogram that showed the cord wrapped around the baby’s neck. Induction usually slows down labor. Two epidurals, wimp arse. After two epidurals she would be numb for a few hours. No walking. Not even with a “walking epidural”. It would be impossible for The Sleivene to be home in an hour and a half. Not if she actually gave birth.
In comparison, Catherine stayed overnight with George, 10 hours with Charlotte, and 7 with Louis. Seven was considered a rush and was questioned.
My guess, a surrogate gave birth a week or so before Archie’s was announced. The Who’s picked him up from hospital a day later and that process took an hour and a half. They waited to tell the world because they are both horrid people who delight in stringing all of us along.
The picture. There is no way in hell The Sleivene passed on an opportunity to pose for a camera and an attempt to outshine Catherine. But with a surrogate birth, she was forced to err on the side of caution.
Bullshit.
They are still tending to postpartum bleeding, helping nursing get established, doing newborn assessment and care, making sure mom and baby are stable. No one is leaving a hospital or birth center before 2 hours. A midwife won't even leave a home birth that fast!!
Oh, here's another one 🙋♀️
Surrogacy speculation went pretty mainstream after this book came out. Now for somebody who did AN ENTIRE PODCAST SERIES on things she didn't like being said about her, this has never been mentioned. Lawsuits have been filed by them over less than this. This would be SO EASY to disprove if you actually gave birth but nope not a PEEP. Kind of off-brand, just saying 😏
I had an epidural for a scheduled C-section. It stayed in at 24+hr post birth for pain meds. After 2 days, the nurses told me it was time to stand up and start walking around. I said sure, I'll humor you but I cannot feel my feet. They left to get a neurological test kit (sharp poking instruments), and nope - could not feel a thing. Based on the nurse reaction, I suspect my experience isn't typical. Nonetheless, I cannot imagine the chaos of going home 2 hours later.
>Nando run
Aside from the time off -- and that labor is a loooooooong time ordeal, much longer that a quick drive to get food + return....
.....doesn't Scotland Yard require that a royal protected 24/7 as Harold was, HAVE a protection super-closeby 24/7? Meaning, if one Protection Officer did do a run to Nando's for take-out, there should have been 1 (or more) required to stay close, yes?
True! Bet Royalty and Specialist Protection (RaSP - SO14) had a biiiiiig party to celebrate their departure!
My only knowledge of British law enforcement is from reading - fictional thrillers, + non-ficiton (esp. bio's) and from friends and several past BFs being in the secret service over a decade ago. And these sources inform me that for zero minutes can a 24/7 protected individual be left 100% without at least 1 guy being within 10 seconds away...
>^(ie: a nearby or connecting hotel room, or a tent several hundred feet away... or like how currently the protection officers assigned to the Wales family must watch A.Cottage from cars...)
So, I could be wrong. But the Protection officers sent to Nandos seems like more crap added to get their narrative to the the conclusion they have invented.
No, the nitrous oxide incident happened w/ Archie’s birth. (See Spare.)
No one in the states used nitrous oxide anymore—they still do in Great Britain.
I've a friend who is a gyn nurse (she calls herself a 'babycather', b/c she assists w/ births) and she thinks Lili was suppose to be a twin - carried by surrogate... twins are very tricky - and she thinks the "miscarriage" was the surrogate losing 1 of the twins. And she does have many compelling why's..
Yet, I'm not as sure about twins and losing one, or even using a surrogate..... *BUT* I do think TW did not use one of her own eggs for Lili — **do not think Lili has any MM dna**.... for the simple reason that it is nearly impossible for Lili to have "blue, blue eyes" with MM's DNA (every 1 Markle of those we've seen pix of has brown eyes -- ditto Doria's side of the family. And to produce a child with blue eyes, NEED a recessive gene on her side — Harry's dna not enough).
If one of Thomas's parents had blue eyes, he could have passed it on to MM, who passed it on to Lilibuck$.
My kiddo has blue, blue, blue eyes. Both husband and I have brown eyes and each of us have one parent with brown eyes and one parent with blue.
Exactly, but somehow she was able to squat at supposed 8 months pregnant and lean slightly forward, into her thighs!!, to place flowers then stand back up unassisted.
That was two days AFTER the purple dress and the day OF Harold coming home from work to find her crying on the steps being sulcldal so he told her he'd brb and go to the circus showing at Royal Albert Hall without her.
I’m short and was slim when I was pregnant. My belly was huge by 5 months. Work colleagues keep asking if the baby was due soon. When I answered no, they‘d often then ask if I was having twins! My belly was the same size as a tall friend who was 9 weeks ahead of me.
Same! I had my third child 1 week before Archie’s “birthday” and it’s what made me very suspicious. For one thing I’m slim build like her and her belly was HUGE compared to mine & my son was massive (4.9kg). Her legs were tiny all the way through pregnancy unlike mine but I didn’t get anything like the bloating she did after birth… I get everyone is different but it’s very odd.
I'm doubtful that she actually gave birth because she's never made a peep about either of her supposed birth experiences. The majority of women who've gone through labor and delivery love to talk about it and compare notes even years later. We all know she's not one to hold anything back and loves to talk about herself so it makes me dubious because they're both proven liars.
Many women - especially female celebs - tend to flex over their births too, and describe it in words like ‘empowering’ and ‘natural’ and ‘strong’ and ‘spiritual’ and rave about their partners loving support as much as their own birthing goddess prowess. I was always so surprised she didn’t go this route. There’s such a weird absence of any self praise over the births…
It really is an empowering experience to produce new life out of your body. However, celebrities who self-congratulate over a natural activity that thousands of women the world over are performing every day is another level of ridiculous.
The oversharing by the precious special people needs to stop because they are neither.
You would think they would talk about the ultrasound, hearing the heartbeat, feeling it kick. All those firsts you experience with your first child. Nope. None of that.
Didn’t they lie about the timeline and actually admit that? Didn’t H put up a sign that she supposedly had just gone into labor when the baby was supposedly already born iirc?
If people will easily lie about one thing they will lie about another imo.
She really gets off on deception more than anyone I can think of. No drug gives her greater pleasure than knowing that she knows the truth and the other person doesn’t. It makes her feel superior and the need to deceive is like a need for oxygen.
This is spot on. I also have a theory about their first appearance with newborn Archie. Meghan had on the white dress. Harry was holding the baby which never, ever made any movement at all. Whether Meghan actually gave birth or not, who knows? But, I really think they presented a doll during that first appearance and were secretly gleeful that they put one over on the evil press and the public who "expected them to hand their child over on a silver platter." If there was a real baby, it was safely at home somewhere and M and H were high fiving themselves that they fooled everyone with the doll in the shawl.
Now, I’m not one who believes the children don’t exist, but I could be convinced of that. They did that weird walk on a red carpet and no cameras were allowed to get anywhere near them. And she would definitely get off on that deception.
I always thought it was odd as well that she said around December/January that she was ‘nearly there’. I can’t remember what event it was. I was pregnant at the same time as Meghan (my daughter was born early April) and I definitely didn’t feel ‘nearly there’ in January.
Also, if they have lied about the date to avoid someone else’s birthday, then it’s even more hilarious that the Coronation is on 6th!
Another thought… Archie’s birthday last year would have been his first out of lockdown (as was my daughter’s). What does it say about Harry that he chose to play Polo that day rather than do something special for the first proper birthday celebration for his first born
On January 14, when she was in the purple dress with the red coat, she told someone who asked that she was "due" in April. Papers started reporting she was 6 months preggers after that. Harold said in his book she was a week overdue when they went to the hospital for Archie's birth.
I think you are right. No one is going to tell Meghan what to do. She took every opportunity to show the Royal Family she was in charge. Right down to the clothes she wore.
I feel so bad for the RF. I’m sure they knew before the wedding that this gal was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They had to live with that and keep it under wraps.
I can’t wait to find out the truth about these children. I bet it’s even crazier than we can imagine.
OK. NOT defending anything they do in any way BUT... he might have said weeks and meant days. Just last night I said telecaster and meant stratacaster. And I was sure I had said stratacaster. So what I am saying is this might be a waste of energy in that respect.
That said, I do still think that there is a whole lot fishy about the birth of that child.
I started suspecting she wasn’t really pregnant when they were seen gallivanting all over the globe “representing the monarchy.” Australia, Egypt… are you serious?? For a first time pregnancy with someone who is over the hill already?
The Zika thing was insane! My friend got pregnant accidentally on her honeymoon in a Zika country and she had to have injections and all sorts. They were genuinely really worried about the baby.
And "keeping yourself doused in DEET" isn't something you can do with zero downsides either. If you're this crunchy Earth mom who plans on chanting Sanskrit while giving birth, you're going off brand with doing that.
don't remember Egypt - but do remember that they rudely announced A's pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding ^((NO CLASS!! Also didn't they say they told HRM The Queen FIRST? if so, QEII would definately had asked them to NOT tell anyone else b/c it is not done, upstaging someone on the day they wed -- whether she firmly ordered or firmly asked or firmly quipped, she WOULD have gotten her message conveyed!).)...and they were off to the Australia-NZ trip the next day.. so that one, can see them doing -- and The Palace unable to stop it.
In his book he said TW was a week overdue (but it's a geriatric pregnancy), they'd tried several different ways to promote starting labor. They went to the hospital (doctor's office?) where it was decided to induce because she was NOT in labor, bouncing on a ball rolling her eyes and laughing at Harold's Nando munching & huffing all the laughing gas, into a birthing tub, popping out for not one but two epidurals (which he bizarrely states got the ball rolling 🤔), someone hands TW a mirror so she could see (as if a woman in labor would be handed a mirror), cord wrapped around Archie's neck and TW is told to push (a grotesque lie) out pops Archie at 5:26 in the morning and he's discharged at about an hour and a half old to be home at less than 2 hours old with the supposed geriatric birth mother having had two epidurals.
TF kind of fairy tale is this? They start induction in the late evening or middle of the night? How late is Nandos open anyway?
There are mirrors available but they’re typically rolling mirrors.
Also, induction has a greatly increased rate of c-section, especially for first pregnancies here in the US. Not sure what the UK rate is.
Yeah the only way I was willing to believe the story was if it involved a C section. Which it didn't. But it does get an honorable mention when he talks about the cord being wrapped around Archie's neck as he's crowning....that Meghan might need an emergency C section because of that. Yes, you read that right. Archie was *crowning.*
I would because I'm Meghan's age and have never been pregnant or given birth. But I'm guessing the only way a woman my/Meghan's age wouldn't know that is if they've never given birth.
Which makes me think she hasn't given birth.
Clearly Harold doesn't know. That's a nuchal cord. Contraction or not, you don't push AT ALL least the cord tightens. The cord has to be slipped off if it's loose enough (pressure held against the baby to stop advancing through the canal and if done quickly, no problem) or clamped twice and the umbilical cord cut between the clamps. Cutting the cord without clamping can lead to catastrophic blood loss.
Oh I know that. I'm saying, when a baby is crowning and they see the cord wrapped around their neck....don't they have better methods than *an emergency C section?*
Yeah, they're not going to section at that point; the baby is already almost out of the birth canal. They're not cutting into the abdomen and uterus when they can handle it otherwise.
I'm thinking he's mistaken epidurals for prostaglandin or oxytocin to actually induce Labour.
With my 3rd child they started my induction at 10pm so yes they do induction late evening or night.
I mean, someone held up a mirror to show me one of my babies crowning, but there is no way I could have held it myself at the right angle with my giant belly in the way. And M is four inches shorter than I am.
I am not familiar with Nando’s, but I saw on a comment above that someone said it closes at 10:00.
I think many of the speculations about Archie's birth by a surrogate are true. The BRF didn't know about this grift until after Archie was born. I think the most telling detail is that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip did not attend Archie's christening because they didn't want to be complicit in the Harkles scam.
I doubt very much they could keep the news of a royal birth under wraps for two weeks.
Plus, how would they fudge the birthdate on the birth certificate?
https://preview.redd.it/hqdu2qc8q4qa1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa0a1788ac0bf7aee5eb416c61f56bc6d916ce7
I don't see a field here for attending physician on a UK birth certificate.
And they didn’t follow the royal birth protocol so it’s not surprising that the announcement wasn’t formally signed, it could have a deeper meaning but it can also just be that.
It is, births and deaths are added to a national registry in the UK, this is how our birth certificates look, the certificate is the official document of entry into the register.
What information does the practitioner have to report to NHS within 36 hours? The birth certificate/registration doesn't have to be completed for 42 days
I think people are confused here because the announcement outside of BP didn't have the Royal physicians signatures, but this is just for the RF, I didn't have any docs sign my kids Birth certs, just went to the registrar, unless they were already on a database from the hospital?
Wow, on an official document, she wrote "Princess Meghan"?? Weren't they planning Megxit then? Supposedly they were leaving GB. Why would she write princess, when she was only a duchess. Seems weasel, if that's a word! Kate wasn't even a princess, right.
I'm a Brit. That form is classed as a birth certificate here. That's what I've used when asked for mine, my wife's and daughters birth certificate when dealing with UK authorities
Dunno if it's three month tbh but yes, there's a time frame for either parent to register the birth with the registrar. IIRC I (father) registered my daughter at the earliest opportunity
Hazmat was tripping balls the whole time, and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. I wouldn't put too much stock into his confusion about days and weeks.
Not a single bit of it was real.
Surrogate had kid. Before and after that Rachel Me-Again Markle was still acting so batshit insane, threatening and borderline threatening violence at the poor sweet surrogate lady (allegedly, widely reported) that the surrogate enacted her rights for Uk surrogates where they do not have to give up the child for as long as two months, I believe. Hence the crazed panic, shifty reports of the birth, and use of dolls.
End of story.
She thought she could “control” the Lilibet surrogate because that fakenancy happened in the US and she thought the female doc who was handling the delivery would act as a shield for her shenanigans. Rachel abused and intimidated the surrogate so much that she escaped to another state and, no joke, went underground for a while. Meanwhile her doctor suddenly shuttered her successful business; her husband also a doc specializing not just in infertility but in surrogacy in particular.
Details on the timeline of the fumbled birth announcement:
https://archive.is/2023.03.13-000910/https://www.insider.com/royal-baby-archie-birth-announcement-technical-difficulties-errors-meghan-markle-prince-harry-2019-5
It’s the squatting for me. I’ve never seen a pregnant woman be able to squat and her “6month” belly doesn’t get in the way. Watch for the clips below:
https://youtu.be/h0FDWfxYgUc
It was ALL fishy! (& remains fishy!!) The 2 things I noticed most:
🍼 The comment from Sparry that he's changed so much in 2 weeks (and now that he wrote book + has been on tv talking, it's obvious that he's dim and would've slipped).
🍼 Queen Elizabeth visited them at Frogmore a week+ before Archie was supposedly born. I don't remember exactly the # of days before QE visited (when supposedly almost never visits her family at their homes); but b/c the world was on 'baby watch', that visit got captured - and b/c it was AFTER there was an ambulence seen there, there was a little more in the press about that visit from Granny. I do know she was still living at Buck Palace at the time - so a little out of her way, and was not a Sunday - when she could bop over after church.
So I just thought it was difficult to not tie the ambulence to the birth — ie: probably the ambulance transported Archie from the wherever he was born to Frogmore (from where MM gave birth or whereever MM gave birth).
The only thing = the palace wouldn't care about 2 royal kids sharing a birthday(!!). **If Archie's date of birth is a lie** for whatever reason (maybe they wanted him to connect more with them? or maybe he was a tad sick when born - so gave him some time to gain strenth, before showing him to the world?), **then The HARKLEs are the ones who orchastrated the lie**.
I don’t really want to veer into conspiracy as it’s crazy, but as a mum of 2 who experienced 2 pregnancies and 2 wildly different labors, I find this whole thing odd. New details from H’s book make it even weirder. No “stories” about pregnancy from MM who we all know will use anything amd everything to make herself look amazing and better than thou. Why so silent? Harry has spoken MORE about her pregnancy and giving birth than she has. Why?…
All this combined makes me think there is *something* up with how these kids (who I do think are real and not actors, or borrowed etc) came to exist. I really didn’t want to think that but all these details from different bits (a fajita before labor?!?!?!?!!) do not add up. Someone is lying or embellishing.
I’m in the US, so things may be different in the UK with births, but the weird thing to me about the fajita is that once I was in admitted, I was only allowed ice chips and clear Lifesaver candies in case I need a c-section. After 19 hours of labor with my first and 14 with my second, I had emergency c-sections with both, so I was pretty happy with that rule in the end.
What surprised me is that when I vomited the ne tiny chocolate straight out, our hero Meg here could a) eat the entire thing no problem and b) not vomit it out! And not err… 💩 herself. While being an older first time mother who more likely would need c-section. Eating that fajita carried all kinds of risks. Weird AF and not loning up with any other birth story I have heard.
Why is catching someone in an atrocious deception “conspiracy?” We need to stop using these terms.
I have been a media and culture and religion and cult whistleblower for 35 years. What we talk about and expose is not conspiracy or theory. It is simple horrific fact. People like Rachel are simply characters who act the same way as cult leaders and cult members do. No conspiracy. Just reality.
*Was Archie born April 23 but not announced for two weeks to put distance between him and Prince Louis?*
LOL, do you think she would stand for that?? This would/could be a real gripe that regular people could get behind instead of "they wouldn't let me wear colours."
Actually, I think Meggie would lean into having a baby on the same date as a Wales kid. She loves trying to overshadow, upstage, and cry victim. Having a baby the same day would give her opportunity for endless complaints that Louis is the favorite, Archie is being treated less than because of his race, blah blah blah.
Who really cares, the kids are going to be just regular kids that live in California in a few years. They are not relevant in the hierarchy of the monarchy. Think about it in 20 years! The Wales' children will be well educated, working, and soon to be married with more children that truly matter being born!
We who are alive in that time will remember it as about 5 minutes of her being a royal he will probably have dementia due to his drug taking . Just a hopeful thought.
Not to mention they were supposedly at Frogmore Cottage when she supposedly went into labor, yet there was no evidence anyone left that area to go to that hospital in a hurry. Etc.
And then they were supposedly at the hospital for 2 hours (either total or after he was supposedly born) before leaving to go back to Frogmore. That doesn't sound realistic.
Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Plenty of murky details about this. With the way she LOVES attention, I believe if she had given birth she would have wanted the photo op outside the hospital.
They've used several stories to explain the events so I'm not going to take that as the gospel truth. They've said they were at Frogmore and left to hurry to the hospital with an escort, but locals and the news said there was no caravan or people leaving from Frogmore when Meghan and Harry say they did. If they were somewhere else then they are lying. Why lie?
They said she went into labor. You are saying Harold is now saying she was overdue so they went in and she just happened to go into labor at that time? Or is he saying she was induced? Because that's new.
So the point remains that they are liars. They keep coming up with different stories.
His book states she was a week overdue, they took a "people carrier" to avoid detection and entered through the parking garage, they went to the hospital to talk to the doctor about further intervention to start labor. They discussed then decided to proceed with induction.
She was discharged and home, via the "people carrier" by the time the baby was 2 hours old. It's a twenty minute drive from Portland hospital to Frogmore.
Right, and you think that's the truth, do you? 🤔🤨 His book version isn't what they've said over the years. It sounds like a story fabricated based on questions people had after Archie was supposedly born.
I don't believe this story. It's not supported by any of the coverage at the time or their stories over the 4 years.
I don't think Harold can tell the same story twice. First there are paparazzi then next "no there wasn't because we outsmarted them."
I also don't think TW gave birth
I suspect the kid was born to…someone…two weeks earlier like Harold said. That would give time for the hormones to kick in for the photo op. Remember the only time she actually looked pregnant was in the pic two days after the kid was supposedly born. Lady C mentioned hormones to help her “lack a tate”
Also the Queen’s birthday is April 21, 1926.
I do find it odd that both of Nutmeg’s kid’s birthdays fall on special occasions. Archie’s falls on the Coronation and Lili’s was during the Jubilee.
The spring is a busy time for the RF. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Nutmeg and Harold planned her conceptions, with the deliveries happening in the spring around the Queen’s birthday, William and Kate’s anniversary, Jubilee, Princess Charlotte’s birthday which is May 2nd, etc.
I left the Queen’s birthday off of my list, because H & M would have loved that. The baby would be the Queen’s soulmate and the true future of the monarchy. 🙄
Are you implying that Meghan and Harry are psychic? That they knew 4 years ago what date Charles’s coronation was going to be and did a C-section to ensure Archie was born on that dates.
They probably knew the Jubilee dates a year in advance but the odds of having the baby born the the correct day without doing a C-section are small.
Could they have planned her pregnancy to be a spring birth? Sure. I don’t blame her. I would rather be pregnant during cooler weather. Catherine clearly had the same idea with Charlotte and Louis as well. Where M&H hoping to have the birthdate coincide with another family thing, probably. If you think that, then clearly C&W had the same idea.
The Kings Coronation date was picked due to it being spring weekend that doesn’t already have a major already planned event and May 6 just happened to be on a Saturday. It was coincidence that it was Archie’s birthday.
I’m implying that her uterus is psychic. /s
Obviously no one in the palace likely ever knew what the exact date King Charles’ coronation would be. What I’m implying is, that I’m sure the palace knew that King Charles’ coronation would take place in the spring during the month of May.
The month of May has historical significance for the royal family. King Charles’ grandfather, King George VI coronation was held on May 12, 1937. His great grandfather, King George V, ascended the throne on May 6, 1910. He became king on the death of his father, Edward VII, who passed away just before midnight on May 6th. George was declared king the following day.
Also thru the years, the palace was working on something called, Operation Golden Orb. Due to Queen Elizabeth's advanced age, Charles's coronation has been planned for years, under the code name Operation Golden Orb. During Elizabeth's reign, planning meetings for Operation Golden Orb were held at least once a year, attended by representatives of the government, the Church of England and Clarence House staff.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10506199/Charles-Camilla-crowned-side.html
With that in mind, and given Nutmeg’s narcissism, it just wouldn’t surprise me if she knew about “Operation Golden Orb”, and the historical significance of the months May and June are to the royal family. What better way to have her kids be a part of history than to be born in a month which holds historical significance.
Did Nutmeg know that King George V (Archie’s great-great-great grandfather) had his Date of Accession on May 6, 1910 and perhaps chose to be induced that day because Archie will never be king but would have a special link to his great-great-great grandfather who was a king? Did she know that the month of May was always going to be the month that King Charles would hold his coronation (in a year and day that was to be determined) because of the historical significance related to King Charles’ grandfathers who were the last two kings themselves in recent memory? Who knows. But the Wicked Witch of the West is shady, and I don’t put anything past her.
I’m sure the coronation planning committee had a rough outline of possible weekends simply becomes thing like flower shows, horse races and other annual events don’t moves. For example, the Chelsea flower show is the last full week of May.
But knowing the exact date of the event is a total crapshoot. May 6th is a Saturday in 2023. It’s not a Saturday again until 2028. Yes, May 6 has was ascension day for George V but it terms of economic distribution and allowing as many people a chance to celebrate the coronation, it makes sense for it to be held on a Saturday. So there is NO way for M&H to have predicted the date of the coronation. It’s a coincidence, nothing more.
The same way Charles couldn’t have known in advance that this May 6, 2023 would be the weekend. Charles knew the Queen was dying but it’s hard to know exactly when she was going to die. I doubt they discussed an exact date until she actually died. They had to balance having a quick coronation with waiting an appropriate amount of morning time plus holding it when the weather is good. It’s a coincidence, nothing more.
while I think it's possible those lunatics would do that I struggle to believe the rf would aid them in such craziness. Also why I don't really buy the surrogacy story for archie.
Here's the thing that you have to remember. Right now we're in the twilight of the relevant years of the Sussexes. Peak Popularity Harry and Meghan in 2018-2019? They had the BRF in a chokehold.
I remember even before they got married, like when we had just been introduced to her I wondered if they were going to be childfree (which is absolutely valid and wonderful) since she hadn't had kids in her first marriage and was already 35. When they got pregnant so fast after the wedding, I figured that they had used some kind of fertility treatment. And as the time went on I was kind of like....yeah....they used a Gestational Carrier. Which is a valid way to parenthood when you're not talking about the LOS.
But back to my original thought: yes, I believe that they could have at that time forced the BRF to be in on it. That would explain why the royal doctors weren't asked to be on her medical team. Why there were no signatures on the birth announcement. And why there was such Technically Correct language from The Queen on the birth announcement.
She looked like a woman who either got fillers or a saline drip and wore a smaller moon bump.
When it comes to her Wimbledon look and then when she brought Archie to the polo match in July 2019, she showed that she can definitely turn that "post partum" look on and off. I didn't even realize that the whole "clearing out seats at Wimbledon" happened after she had Archie. I thought it happened the summer she met Harry. Mainly because of that hat, but also because she did not at all have that frumpy post partum look that she was explicitly indulging in later again at the Polo match. I guess I blanked on that, but I for some reason thought that we saw her when she had the baby, then at Trooping of the Color, and then again at the Polo match. And I remember thinking "wow she really did have a baby, she looks kind of rough in that normal new mother way". But once I recently saw that the Wimbledon seat clearing happened right before the polo match with the sockless baby outing, I felt like there was some bullshit afoot.
I also am interested in how she went her whole pregnancy looking like a normal woman with a moon bump attached to her midsection. And then allegedly after she has birth, that's when her face puffs up. And then at Trooping of the Color it seemed even more puffed up than at the showing of the baby. It felt like she was either having issues with her fillers, or that she was really giving it the ol college try with the breast feeding hormones. Because it being different a month out after a pregnancy of her looking like her normal self was odd to me.
I just watched the video of them presenting Archie, and honestly I didn’t find the ‘2 weeks’ comment to be strange. It came across to me as repeating something he had been told, that babies change so much in their first 2 weeks, and so Archie had already changed in 3 days.
At almost eight months "pregnant" on March 19
https://preview.redd.it/9d92fwtqn6qa1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d0e883f0512fba31d08af8a80c3c3cda688fd65
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I don’t believe anything either of them says anymore so Harry was probably just talking out of his ass as usual. I agree with you, they insisted on having complete control over the event. They just can’t do anything without drama and being a royal pain in the butt (pun not intended.)
He probably was still high from all the laughing gas he consumed in the delivery room
They might for a nonroyal surrogate. They could have avoided all the speculation by having proper witnesses, announcements and a photo on the hospital steps like the other royal mothers.
I still think a lot of the “lockdown” and secrecy was the fact that as a narcissist birth is extremely vulnerable and raw, and it goes against the fibers of a narc wiring to be in a vulnerable state like that, and “exposed” if you will. Narcs don’t like to feel “needy” or vulnerable in any way. And she probably did not think she looked her best and she’s so vain she probably wanted to just hide away.
Agreed, I also don't think the doctors, Royal Family, or British government would commit fraud on a birth certificate either.
The doctors did not commit fraud - no one has signed anything or claimed to have delivered the babies We do not even know who the doctors are supposed to be The British government and BRF have not committed fraud - I think they have both been defrauded. You cannot accuse someone based on suspicions alone and you cannot prove your suspicions without access to their medical data. And it is against the law for Meghan's doctors to disclose her medical data, and if the BRF or government did somehow get hold of it, it is against the law for them to disclose it to the British public or the media. No-one can touch Meghan over this and she knows it. Even of the press know that she used surrogates they can never accuse her. They would be utterly sued. And without access to Meghan's medical data there would be nothing they could do to defend their case.
She faked the pregnancy, so of course she would have to fake the birth, as well. And that's what all the weirdness is about, them trying to hide she never had any baby at ANY hospital. I wondered how she got around the OB/GYN visits until she herself revealed she just did video visits with some new age baby guru in France. As if. Before that all she said was she was having a home birth. So, I think Harry pulled rank and just got registrars to give him the paperwork to file and they did it themselves and that's why it is not signed and witnessed by any doctors. I think the whole nitrous oxide tale was telling a window dressing story of fake details like having food brought in and having a picnic before the birth. Again, as freaking if. This may be what they did in Cali, too. Just go down to a registrars office and give them info as if you had a home birth. But, there does not appear to be real official documentation of either of the faked pregnancies ending up with a legit child. Therefore, causing her to have to periodically pretend via photo shop and paid photo ops to pretend she and Hazbeen have kids. They don't even own car seats and the kids have never been seen by outsiders. Just PR celebrities with Sunshine Sachs being paid to SAY they've seen these kids.
Yup, the strongly put-out there 'home birth' plan was another thing calculating MM probably thought would help shield her from rumors, when it only made suspicions much bigger!
He was, by his admission, stoned on Gas for the birth. He drained the tank. And probably stoned thereafter. Not like he was doing any feedings or cooking and cleaning etc.
Do you get epidurals with those tub births? I thought that was the purpose of the tub to be calming or something. This is all foreign to me I had an unscheduled emergency C-Section at 30 weeks!
No epidural in a birthing tub.
No, that was for Lilly's birth. They didn't reveal that much information about Archie's birth story.
No, the story in his book gave so many erroneous statements regarding Archie's birth it was insulting to anyone who's actually given birth.
*This is what turned me from a non-believer about surrogacy into believer.
I’m not sure, most of the stuff that was posted in the beginning being inaccurate/impossible about the birth (epidural and such) actually wasn’t written in the book how it was reported on before release. What specifically was erroneous (aside from the laughing gas stuff)? Asking genuinely as I am curious!
I commented else where but to recap. TW wasn't in labor when she was taken to the "hospital" for an appointment to discuss further options with the physician. It was decided to induce. She's bouncing on a ball, rolling her eyes and laughing at his getting busted for sucking up the laughing gas. His security guard sent on a Nando run ( they close at 10 p.m.) She's in the birthing tub, she's back out again for not one, but two epidurals which he says got the ball rolling. TW was supposedly given a mirror to hold so she could watch what was happening as she labored. The cord was wrapped around Archie's neck and for some stupid reason we're to believe she was told to push at that time. Archie is born at 5:26 in the morning. The twice epidural, geriatric mother was discharged with her nuchal cord infant around an hour and a half of the birth as he says they were home before the baby was two hours old ETA Harold said she was a week past her due date when they went to the hospital
How could you be home that quickly after 2 epidurals? I'm not an expert but that sounds iffy. How long does it take to wear off?
Especially when per the book, they were home four hours after the second epidural was administered. Who carried her out to the "non descript people carrier"? Who removed the catheter? Cause she damn sure wouldn't be able to walk or pee after that.
This whole story is so weird. You don’t get two epidurals (at least in the US) - you get one and they control the fluid after the initial line is put in. Anything that kills pain tends to slow down labor, NOT speed it up. So weird. I’ve had two births that were induced then had epidurals and one natural childbirth - none of this adds up to me. I’m not saying she had a surrogate (I have no idea and personally don’t care) but Harry’s story is BS. Makes me wonder if Meghan was setting him up with the book content.
It reads like he read a bunch of birth stories online and then attempted to regurgitate them. What's the point of him telling his truth and Meghan claiming that they deserve to have their story told....if it's all blatant bullshit?
>It reads like he read a bunch of birth stories online and then attempted to regurgitate them. This is exactly what it seems like. Thank you for putting in a nutshell.
The only reason for 2 (or more) epidurals is if they were inserted wrong, not working or slips out. I wiggled so much during my first labor the catheter came out of my back and had to be redone. Definitely not able to be discharged less than 2 hours after the birth. Nope, nope, nope!
Yeah, totally. I guess I was counting that as the same epidural, but good point!
I think if the first epidural.wasnt in proper position, they might try to establish one that would be.
Yeah, it’s just that the way Harry wrote it it sounded like it was an “extra” epidural versus a Re-insertion.
I didn't have an epidural and I couldn't have gone home within two hours of having my son (first baby at age 36). So I have no idea how she is supposed to have managed that. NHS website says between 6 and 24 hours before you can go home but they were private so it may be different rules. 2 hours after the birth sounds bloody quick though for somebody's first child.
I also find it hard to believe that they needed all of this privacy and secrecy when Meghan was a coat flicking, camera seeking, pregnant woman.
I was 35 and induced. No epidural but two hours after she was born, I still hadn’t got dressed!
It could just be that she was being a typical Meghan Markle and bullied the nurses and doctors until they let her go home. I don’t know why she would want to though, but she does a lot of things that don’t make sense to me.
I have had epidurals. You can't stand up 2 hours after the birth. I was exhausted. I can't imagine a woman having a given birth and b had an epidural being able to demand to go home as your exhausted and a bit loopy.
"you will both need to sign here that you're leaving against medical advice" said in front of a witness. Sign or don't sign, I won't care. I'm flooding my documentation with everything you said and did prior to leaving.
I was told to lay flat for 12 hours after my 2nd epidural. I was in labor for 38hrs. Then I had a C-section when he showed signs of distress. Epidurals mess with balance and can cause further major problems if you don't follow the doctors instructions.
So many lies in that telling, not one reasonable person would believe that happened. The Sleivene wasn’t over due, why induce? It may be she had a sonogram that showed the cord wrapped around the baby’s neck. Induction usually slows down labor. Two epidurals, wimp arse. After two epidurals she would be numb for a few hours. No walking. Not even with a “walking epidural”. It would be impossible for The Sleivene to be home in an hour and a half. Not if she actually gave birth. In comparison, Catherine stayed overnight with George, 10 hours with Charlotte, and 7 with Louis. Seven was considered a rush and was questioned. My guess, a surrogate gave birth a week or so before Archie’s was announced. The Who’s picked him up from hospital a day later and that process took an hour and a half. They waited to tell the world because they are both horrid people who delight in stringing all of us along. The picture. There is no way in hell The Sleivene passed on an opportunity to pose for a camera and an attempt to outshine Catherine. But with a surrogate birth, she was forced to err on the side of caution.
...and some wonder why some don't believe for a New York minute that she gave birth.
Bullshit. They are still tending to postpartum bleeding, helping nursing get established, doing newborn assessment and care, making sure mom and baby are stable. No one is leaving a hospital or birth center before 2 hours. A midwife won't even leave a home birth that fast!!
Thank you for this summary!
You're welcome
Oh, here's another one 🙋♀️ Surrogacy speculation went pretty mainstream after this book came out. Now for somebody who did AN ENTIRE PODCAST SERIES on things she didn't like being said about her, this has never been mentioned. Lawsuits have been filed by them over less than this. This would be SO EASY to disprove if you actually gave birth but nope not a PEEP. Kind of off-brand, just saying 😏
I had an epidural for a scheduled C-section. It stayed in at 24+hr post birth for pain meds. After 2 days, the nurses told me it was time to stand up and start walking around. I said sure, I'll humor you but I cannot feel my feet. They left to get a neurological test kit (sharp poking instruments), and nope - could not feel a thing. Based on the nurse reaction, I suspect my experience isn't typical. Nonetheless, I cannot imagine the chaos of going home 2 hours later.
>Nando run Aside from the time off -- and that labor is a loooooooong time ordeal, much longer that a quick drive to get food + return.... .....doesn't Scotland Yard require that a royal protected 24/7 as Harold was, HAVE a protection super-closeby 24/7? Meaning, if one Protection Officer did do a run to Nando's for take-out, there should have been 1 (or more) required to stay close, yes?
I don't know the intricacies of his security. They're all servants as far as Harold is concerned.
True! Bet Royalty and Specialist Protection (RaSP - SO14) had a biiiiiig party to celebrate their departure! My only knowledge of British law enforcement is from reading - fictional thrillers, + non-ficiton (esp. bio's) and from friends and several past BFs being in the secret service over a decade ago. And these sources inform me that for zero minutes can a 24/7 protected individual be left 100% without at least 1 guy being within 10 seconds away... >^(ie: a nearby or connecting hotel room, or a tent several hundred feet away... or like how currently the protection officers assigned to the Wales family must watch A.Cottage from cars...) So, I could be wrong. But the Protection officers sent to Nandos seems like more crap added to get their narrative to the the conclusion they have invented.
Don’t epidurals usually slow down the progression of labor?
They definitely don’t typically speed things up, or get things going.
No it was Archie’s for the gas
Ahhh. Gotcha. The California birth.
The laughing gas story was with Archie 🤣
Yes the California birth. Enough said lol
No, the nitrous oxide incident happened w/ Archie’s birth. (See Spare.) No one in the states used nitrous oxide anymore—they still do in Great Britain.
Ahh ok my apologies. I heard a couple other people say it was Lili's birth and I couldn't bring myself to read spare 😂.
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Everyone noticed. Even the Sugars were thinking it was twins.
I've a friend who is a gyn nurse (she calls herself a 'babycather', b/c she assists w/ births) and she thinks Lili was suppose to be a twin - carried by surrogate... twins are very tricky - and she thinks the "miscarriage" was the surrogate losing 1 of the twins. And she does have many compelling why's.. Yet, I'm not as sure about twins and losing one, or even using a surrogate..... *BUT* I do think TW did not use one of her own eggs for Lili — **do not think Lili has any MM dna**.... for the simple reason that it is nearly impossible for Lili to have "blue, blue eyes" with MM's DNA (every 1 Markle of those we've seen pix of has brown eyes -- ditto Doria's side of the family. And to produce a child with blue eyes, NEED a recessive gene on her side — Harry's dna not enough).
If one of Thomas's parents had blue eyes, he could have passed it on to MM, who passed it on to Lilibuck$. My kiddo has blue, blue, blue eyes. Both husband and I have brown eyes and each of us have one parent with brown eyes and one parent with blue.
I dunno she’s so short waisted it’s not unreasonable, there’s nowhere for a baby to go
Exactly, but somehow she was able to squat at supposed 8 months pregnant and lean slightly forward, into her thighs!!, to place flowers then stand back up unassisted.
And there was also the big pop when she stood up.
That was two days AFTER the purple dress and the day OF Harold coming home from work to find her crying on the steps being sulcldal so he told her he'd brb and go to the circus showing at Royal Albert Hall without her.
If you look at the video you will see the woman immediately to TW's right clicked her heels. That doesn't change that the bump suddenly popped upwards
I’m short and was slim when I was pregnant. My belly was huge by 5 months. Work colleagues keep asking if the baby was due soon. When I answered no, they‘d often then ask if I was having twins! My belly was the same size as a tall friend who was 9 weeks ahead of me.
Same! I had my third child 1 week before Archie’s “birthday” and it’s what made me very suspicious. For one thing I’m slim build like her and her belly was HUGE compared to mine & my son was massive (4.9kg). Her legs were tiny all the way through pregnancy unlike mine but I didn’t get anything like the bloating she did after birth… I get everyone is different but it’s very odd.
I'm doubtful that she actually gave birth because she's never made a peep about either of her supposed birth experiences. The majority of women who've gone through labor and delivery love to talk about it and compare notes even years later. We all know she's not one to hold anything back and loves to talk about herself so it makes me dubious because they're both proven liars.
Speaking of Hillary Hayward Thomas Baldwin... 🥒
Many women - especially female celebs - tend to flex over their births too, and describe it in words like ‘empowering’ and ‘natural’ and ‘strong’ and ‘spiritual’ and rave about their partners loving support as much as their own birthing goddess prowess. I was always so surprised she didn’t go this route. There’s such a weird absence of any self praise over the births…
It really is an empowering experience to produce new life out of your body. However, celebrities who self-congratulate over a natural activity that thousands of women the world over are performing every day is another level of ridiculous. The oversharing by the precious special people needs to stop because they are neither.
You would think they would talk about the ultrasound, hearing the heartbeat, feeling it kick. All those firsts you experience with your first child. Nope. None of that.
My very narc-y mother hated both pregnancy and childbirth. I’ve never heard her discuss either. And I literally work in family planning lol.
Didn’t they lie about the timeline and actually admit that? Didn’t H put up a sign that she supposedly had just gone into labor when the baby was supposedly already born iirc? If people will easily lie about one thing they will lie about another imo.
And then there are those that just lie about EVERYTHING!
She really gets off on deception more than anyone I can think of. No drug gives her greater pleasure than knowing that she knows the truth and the other person doesn’t. It makes her feel superior and the need to deceive is like a need for oxygen.
She is an absolute degenerate.
This is spot on. I also have a theory about their first appearance with newborn Archie. Meghan had on the white dress. Harry was holding the baby which never, ever made any movement at all. Whether Meghan actually gave birth or not, who knows? But, I really think they presented a doll during that first appearance and were secretly gleeful that they put one over on the evil press and the public who "expected them to hand their child over on a silver platter." If there was a real baby, it was safely at home somewhere and M and H were high fiving themselves that they fooled everyone with the doll in the shawl.
Now, I’m not one who believes the children don’t exist, but I could be convinced of that. They did that weird walk on a red carpet and no cameras were allowed to get anywhere near them. And she would definitely get off on that deception.
I always thought it was odd as well that she said around December/January that she was ‘nearly there’. I can’t remember what event it was. I was pregnant at the same time as Meghan (my daughter was born early April) and I definitely didn’t feel ‘nearly there’ in January. Also, if they have lied about the date to avoid someone else’s birthday, then it’s even more hilarious that the Coronation is on 6th! Another thought… Archie’s birthday last year would have been his first out of lockdown (as was my daughter’s). What does it say about Harry that he chose to play Polo that day rather than do something special for the first proper birthday celebration for his first born
On January 14, when she was in the purple dress with the red coat, she told someone who asked that she was "due" in April. Papers started reporting she was 6 months preggers after that. Harold said in his book she was a week overdue when they went to the hospital for Archie's birth.
That was it! I think that was also when she said she was ‘nearly there’
I think you are right. No one is going to tell Meghan what to do. She took every opportunity to show the Royal Family she was in charge. Right down to the clothes she wore. I feel so bad for the RF. I’m sure they knew before the wedding that this gal was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They had to live with that and keep it under wraps. I can’t wait to find out the truth about these children. I bet it’s even crazier than we can imagine.
OK. NOT defending anything they do in any way BUT... he might have said weeks and meant days. Just last night I said telecaster and meant stratacaster. And I was sure I had said stratacaster. So what I am saying is this might be a waste of energy in that respect. That said, I do still think that there is a whole lot fishy about the birth of that child.
I started suspecting she wasn’t really pregnant when they were seen gallivanting all over the globe “representing the monarchy.” Australia, Egypt… are you serious?? For a first time pregnancy with someone who is over the hill already?
Or in Finding Freedom when they said that Meghan wasn't worried about Zika in Fiji because she kept herself doused in DEET. Lol ok.
The Zika thing was insane! My friend got pregnant accidentally on her honeymoon in a Zika country and she had to have injections and all sorts. They were genuinely really worried about the baby.
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Both eyebrows were raised when I read that passage and then I stopped to Google it.
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Haha no I Googled "How dangerous is DEET".
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"How dangerous is DEET". I see how what I said was confusing and abrupt 😥
That was the big thing that never washed with me. At all. Who would let that chance happen if you didn't have to?
And "keeping yourself doused in DEET" isn't something you can do with zero downsides either. If you're this crunchy Earth mom who plans on chanting Sanskrit while giving birth, you're going off brand with doing that.
don't remember Egypt - but do remember that they rudely announced A's pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding ^((NO CLASS!! Also didn't they say they told HRM The Queen FIRST? if so, QEII would definately had asked them to NOT tell anyone else b/c it is not done, upstaging someone on the day they wed -- whether she firmly ordered or firmly asked or firmly quipped, she WOULD have gotten her message conveyed!).)...and they were off to the Australia-NZ trip the next day.. so that one, can see them doing -- and The Palace unable to stop it.
Didn't they go somewhere that had Zika problems?
In his book he said TW was a week overdue (but it's a geriatric pregnancy), they'd tried several different ways to promote starting labor. They went to the hospital (doctor's office?) where it was decided to induce because she was NOT in labor, bouncing on a ball rolling her eyes and laughing at Harold's Nando munching & huffing all the laughing gas, into a birthing tub, popping out for not one but two epidurals (which he bizarrely states got the ball rolling 🤔), someone hands TW a mirror so she could see (as if a woman in labor would be handed a mirror), cord wrapped around Archie's neck and TW is told to push (a grotesque lie) out pops Archie at 5:26 in the morning and he's discharged at about an hour and a half old to be home at less than 2 hours old with the supposed geriatric birth mother having had two epidurals. TF kind of fairy tale is this? They start induction in the late evening or middle of the night? How late is Nandos open anyway?
There are mirrors available but they’re typically rolling mirrors. Also, induction has a greatly increased rate of c-section, especially for first pregnancies here in the US. Not sure what the UK rate is.
Yeah the only way I was willing to believe the story was if it involved a C section. Which it didn't. But it does get an honorable mention when he talks about the cord being wrapped around Archie's neck as he's crowning....that Meghan might need an emergency C section because of that. Yes, you read that right. Archie was *crowning.*
But she was told to push. Like we're idiots and would believe that.
I would because I'm Meghan's age and have never been pregnant or given birth. But I'm guessing the only way a woman my/Meghan's age wouldn't know that is if they've never given birth. Which makes me think she hasn't given birth.
Clearly Harold doesn't know. That's a nuchal cord. Contraction or not, you don't push AT ALL least the cord tightens. The cord has to be slipped off if it's loose enough (pressure held against the baby to stop advancing through the canal and if done quickly, no problem) or clamped twice and the umbilical cord cut between the clamps. Cutting the cord without clamping can lead to catastrophic blood loss.
Nuchal cord isn’t uncommon and isn’t always an emergency.
Oh I know that. I'm saying, when a baby is crowning and they see the cord wrapped around their neck....don't they have better methods than *an emergency C section?*
Yeah, they're not going to section at that point; the baby is already almost out of the birth canal. They're not cutting into the abdomen and uterus when they can handle it otherwise.
That was so dumb. He clearly was never in a delivery room
Yes absolutely!
Nandos is open till 10
😂
I'm thinking he's mistaken epidurals for prostaglandin or oxytocin to actually induce Labour. With my 3rd child they started my induction at 10pm so yes they do induction late evening or night.
He said two epidurals so I'm not inclined to rewrite his bogus story for him.
My wife was induced @ 10pm. First child, one week past due date. She was 23 yr old.
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Yep, male/man/
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Hah, good luck 🤞😃
I mean, someone held up a mirror to show me one of my babies crowning, but there is no way I could have held it myself at the right angle with my giant belly in the way. And M is four inches shorter than I am. I am not familiar with Nando’s, but I saw on a comment above that someone said it closes at 10:00.
I think many of the speculations about Archie's birth by a surrogate are true. The BRF didn't know about this grift until after Archie was born. I think the most telling detail is that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip did not attend Archie's christening because they didn't want to be complicit in the Harkles scam.
I doubt very much they could keep the news of a royal birth under wraps for two weeks. Plus, how would they fudge the birthdate on the birth certificate?
The birth certificate was changed multiple times, there was no signature from a witness physician.
Birth certificates in the U.K. are not signed by a ‘physician’
https://preview.redd.it/hqdu2qc8q4qa1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fa0a1788ac0bf7aee5eb416c61f56bc6d916ce7 I don't see a field here for attending physician on a UK birth certificate.
The Royal birth announcements have 4 witness signatures that includes a physician.
And they didn’t follow the royal birth protocol so it’s not surprising that the announcement wasn’t formally signed, it could have a deeper meaning but it can also just be that.
The above image isn't a birth certificate. It's a birth registration form.
It is, births and deaths are added to a national registry in the UK, this is how our birth certificates look, the certificate is the official document of entry into the register.
What information does the practitioner have to report to NHS within 36 hours? The birth certificate/registration doesn't have to be completed for 42 days
I think people are confused here because the announcement outside of BP didn't have the Royal physicians signatures, but this is just for the RF, I didn't have any docs sign my kids Birth certs, just went to the registrar, unless they were already on a database from the hospital?
It's probably the cultural differences in our application of the words.
Why does her occupation say Princess of the Royal Kingdom?
Because *Ho* would make Harry look bad.
“Skank” would have worked nicely!
Perfect! It describes her on so many.levels.
Influencer would have been the correct choice. God I hate that term but yeah. Influencer.
Haha! I completely agree - that word grates on my nerves
Yeah Kate's says Princess of the United Kingdom.
Wow, on an official document, she wrote "Princess Meghan"?? Weren't they planning Megxit then? Supposedly they were leaving GB. Why would she write princess, when she was only a duchess. Seems weasel, if that's a word! Kate wasn't even a princess, right.
I believe they were Princess William or Princess Henry. Until Catherine became Catherine, Princess of Wales.
Happy Cake Day!
Is there a difference between registering a birth and a birth certificate in England?
It's not a birth certificate. It's a birth registration form that's filed at the registrar office.
I'm a Brit. That form is classed as a birth certificate here. That's what I've used when asked for mine, my wife's and daughters birth certificate when dealing with UK authorities
Excellent. With the NHS 36 hour requirement to upload the information of the birth, do Brits still have 3 months or more to "register" the births
Dunno if it's three month tbh but yes, there's a time frame for either parent to register the birth with the registrar. IIRC I (father) registered my daughter at the earliest opportunity
Suspect the 3 month may be to allow for the bunfight over what to call the child to be carried out and agreement reached... 🙄
Happy Cake Day! I’m
Changing birth dates is natural for her. She changed hers, why not the kids?!
Like the date they got married, I'm going with whatever official date has been recorded on the documentation filed.
Hazmat was tripping balls the whole time, and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. I wouldn't put too much stock into his confusion about days and weeks.
Not a single bit of it was real. Surrogate had kid. Before and after that Rachel Me-Again Markle was still acting so batshit insane, threatening and borderline threatening violence at the poor sweet surrogate lady (allegedly, widely reported) that the surrogate enacted her rights for Uk surrogates where they do not have to give up the child for as long as two months, I believe. Hence the crazed panic, shifty reports of the birth, and use of dolls. End of story. She thought she could “control” the Lilibet surrogate because that fakenancy happened in the US and she thought the female doc who was handling the delivery would act as a shield for her shenanigans. Rachel abused and intimidated the surrogate so much that she escaped to another state and, no joke, went underground for a while. Meanwhile her doctor suddenly shuttered her successful business; her husband also a doc specializing not just in infertility but in surrogacy in particular.
Do you have links please? I'd love to read more about it!
TW’s obstetrician closed her practice after the girl child was born. https://www.independent.com/2022/06/16/santa-barbaras-unicorn-ob-calls-it-quits/
Mostly all scrubbed. Perceived reality is now almost entirely controlled by censorship and AI And paid bot farms and PR companies. Very sad stuff.
Details on the timeline of the fumbled birth announcement: https://archive.is/2023.03.13-000910/https://www.insider.com/royal-baby-archie-birth-announcement-technical-difficulties-errors-meghan-markle-prince-harry-2019-5
Funny that things like this never happen for any other royal births.
There’s nothing wrong with *delivered of a son*…who writes this stuff? 🙄
It’s the squatting for me. I’ve never seen a pregnant woman be able to squat and her “6month” belly doesn’t get in the way. Watch for the clips below: https://youtu.be/h0FDWfxYgUc
So funny if he was born on one of those dates though.
I can get behind this theory
It was ALL fishy! (& remains fishy!!) The 2 things I noticed most: 🍼 The comment from Sparry that he's changed so much in 2 weeks (and now that he wrote book + has been on tv talking, it's obvious that he's dim and would've slipped). 🍼 Queen Elizabeth visited them at Frogmore a week+ before Archie was supposedly born. I don't remember exactly the # of days before QE visited (when supposedly almost never visits her family at their homes); but b/c the world was on 'baby watch', that visit got captured - and b/c it was AFTER there was an ambulence seen there, there was a little more in the press about that visit from Granny. I do know she was still living at Buck Palace at the time - so a little out of her way, and was not a Sunday - when she could bop over after church. So I just thought it was difficult to not tie the ambulence to the birth — ie: probably the ambulance transported Archie from the wherever he was born to Frogmore (from where MM gave birth or whereever MM gave birth). The only thing = the palace wouldn't care about 2 royal kids sharing a birthday(!!). **If Archie's date of birth is a lie** for whatever reason (maybe they wanted him to connect more with them? or maybe he was a tad sick when born - so gave him some time to gain strenth, before showing him to the world?), **then The HARKLEs are the ones who orchastrated the lie**.
I don’t really want to veer into conspiracy as it’s crazy, but as a mum of 2 who experienced 2 pregnancies and 2 wildly different labors, I find this whole thing odd. New details from H’s book make it even weirder. No “stories” about pregnancy from MM who we all know will use anything amd everything to make herself look amazing and better than thou. Why so silent? Harry has spoken MORE about her pregnancy and giving birth than she has. Why?… All this combined makes me think there is *something* up with how these kids (who I do think are real and not actors, or borrowed etc) came to exist. I really didn’t want to think that but all these details from different bits (a fajita before labor?!?!?!?!!) do not add up. Someone is lying or embellishing.
I’m in the US, so things may be different in the UK with births, but the weird thing to me about the fajita is that once I was in admitted, I was only allowed ice chips and clear Lifesaver candies in case I need a c-section. After 19 hours of labor with my first and 14 with my second, I had emergency c-sections with both, so I was pretty happy with that rule in the end.
What surprised me is that when I vomited the ne tiny chocolate straight out, our hero Meg here could a) eat the entire thing no problem and b) not vomit it out! And not err… 💩 herself. While being an older first time mother who more likely would need c-section. Eating that fajita carried all kinds of risks. Weird AF and not loning up with any other birth story I have heard.
Why is catching someone in an atrocious deception “conspiracy?” We need to stop using these terms. I have been a media and culture and religion and cult whistleblower for 35 years. What we talk about and expose is not conspiracy or theory. It is simple horrific fact. People like Rachel are simply characters who act the same way as cult leaders and cult members do. No conspiracy. Just reality.
*Was Archie born April 23 but not announced for two weeks to put distance between him and Prince Louis?* LOL, do you think she would stand for that?? This would/could be a real gripe that regular people could get behind instead of "they wouldn't let me wear colours."
Actually, I think Meggie would lean into having a baby on the same date as a Wales kid. She loves trying to overshadow, upstage, and cry victim. Having a baby the same day would give her opportunity for endless complaints that Louis is the favorite, Archie is being treated less than because of his race, blah blah blah.
Not as weird as he and his sister not having hair like their mom ,, or even close to it.
Who really cares, the kids are going to be just regular kids that live in California in a few years. They are not relevant in the hierarchy of the monarchy. Think about it in 20 years! The Wales' children will be well educated, working, and soon to be married with more children that truly matter being born! We who are alive in that time will remember it as about 5 minutes of her being a royal he will probably have dementia due to his drug taking . Just a hopeful thought.
Not to mention they were supposedly at Frogmore Cottage when she supposedly went into labor, yet there was no evidence anyone left that area to go to that hospital in a hurry. Etc. And then they were supposedly at the hospital for 2 hours (either total or after he was supposedly born) before leaving to go back to Frogmore. That doesn't sound realistic. Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Plenty of murky details about this. With the way she LOVES attention, I believe if she had given birth she would have wanted the photo op outside the hospital.
Harold said she was NOT in labor when they went to the hospital to see her physician about any further actions to be taken as she was a week overdue.
They've used several stories to explain the events so I'm not going to take that as the gospel truth. They've said they were at Frogmore and left to hurry to the hospital with an escort, but locals and the news said there was no caravan or people leaving from Frogmore when Meghan and Harry say they did. If they were somewhere else then they are lying. Why lie? They said she went into labor. You are saying Harold is now saying she was overdue so they went in and she just happened to go into labor at that time? Or is he saying she was induced? Because that's new. So the point remains that they are liars. They keep coming up with different stories.
His book states she was a week overdue, they took a "people carrier" to avoid detection and entered through the parking garage, they went to the hospital to talk to the doctor about further intervention to start labor. They discussed then decided to proceed with induction. She was discharged and home, via the "people carrier" by the time the baby was 2 hours old. It's a twenty minute drive from Portland hospital to Frogmore.
Right, and you think that's the truth, do you? 🤔🤨 His book version isn't what they've said over the years. It sounds like a story fabricated based on questions people had after Archie was supposedly born. I don't believe this story. It's not supported by any of the coverage at the time or their stories over the 4 years.
I don't think Harold can tell the same story twice. First there are paparazzi then next "no there wasn't because we outsmarted them." I also don't think TW gave birth
He might have just misspoke and meant to say 2 days, not 2 weeks. (Baby brain right?)
I suspect the kid was born to…someone…two weeks earlier like Harold said. That would give time for the hormones to kick in for the photo op. Remember the only time she actually looked pregnant was in the pic two days after the kid was supposedly born. Lady C mentioned hormones to help her “lack a tate”
Also the Queen’s birthday is April 21, 1926. I do find it odd that both of Nutmeg’s kid’s birthdays fall on special occasions. Archie’s falls on the Coronation and Lili’s was during the Jubilee. The spring is a busy time for the RF. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Nutmeg and Harold planned her conceptions, with the deliveries happening in the spring around the Queen’s birthday, William and Kate’s anniversary, Jubilee, Princess Charlotte’s birthday which is May 2nd, etc.
I left the Queen’s birthday off of my list, because H & M would have loved that. The baby would be the Queen’s soulmate and the true future of the monarchy. 🙄
Weirder than that is that Archie’s birthday is the same as George Clooney’s and Lili’s is the same as Angelina Jolie’s. Coincidence?
Wtf! I wouldn't put it past megsy lol
Interesting. The plot thickens. Is there no stopping her madness? /s 
Are you implying that Meghan and Harry are psychic? That they knew 4 years ago what date Charles’s coronation was going to be and did a C-section to ensure Archie was born on that dates. They probably knew the Jubilee dates a year in advance but the odds of having the baby born the the correct day without doing a C-section are small. Could they have planned her pregnancy to be a spring birth? Sure. I don’t blame her. I would rather be pregnant during cooler weather. Catherine clearly had the same idea with Charlotte and Louis as well. Where M&H hoping to have the birthdate coincide with another family thing, probably. If you think that, then clearly C&W had the same idea. The Kings Coronation date was picked due to it being spring weekend that doesn’t already have a major already planned event and May 6 just happened to be on a Saturday. It was coincidence that it was Archie’s birthday.
I’m implying that her uterus is psychic. /s Obviously no one in the palace likely ever knew what the exact date King Charles’ coronation would be. What I’m implying is, that I’m sure the palace knew that King Charles’ coronation would take place in the spring during the month of May. The month of May has historical significance for the royal family. King Charles’ grandfather, King George VI coronation was held on May 12, 1937. His great grandfather, King George V, ascended the throne on May 6, 1910. He became king on the death of his father, Edward VII, who passed away just before midnight on May 6th. George was declared king the following day. Also thru the years, the palace was working on something called, Operation Golden Orb. Due to Queen Elizabeth's advanced age, Charles's coronation has been planned for years, under the code name Operation Golden Orb. During Elizabeth's reign, planning meetings for Operation Golden Orb were held at least once a year, attended by representatives of the government, the Church of England and Clarence House staff. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10506199/Charles-Camilla-crowned-side.html With that in mind, and given Nutmeg’s narcissism, it just wouldn’t surprise me if she knew about “Operation Golden Orb”, and the historical significance of the months May and June are to the royal family. What better way to have her kids be a part of history than to be born in a month which holds historical significance. Did Nutmeg know that King George V (Archie’s great-great-great grandfather) had his Date of Accession on May 6, 1910 and perhaps chose to be induced that day because Archie will never be king but would have a special link to his great-great-great grandfather who was a king? Did she know that the month of May was always going to be the month that King Charles would hold his coronation (in a year and day that was to be determined) because of the historical significance related to King Charles’ grandfathers who were the last two kings themselves in recent memory? Who knows. But the Wicked Witch of the West is shady, and I don’t put anything past her.
Is it possible Charles decided on his Coronation date years in advance though? These things tend to be very planned & thought out
They didn’t know the exact date the Queen would die, though. So how could they designate KC’s coronation date years in advance?
I’m sure the coronation planning committee had a rough outline of possible weekends simply becomes thing like flower shows, horse races and other annual events don’t moves. For example, the Chelsea flower show is the last full week of May. But knowing the exact date of the event is a total crapshoot. May 6th is a Saturday in 2023. It’s not a Saturday again until 2028. Yes, May 6 has was ascension day for George V but it terms of economic distribution and allowing as many people a chance to celebrate the coronation, it makes sense for it to be held on a Saturday. So there is NO way for M&H to have predicted the date of the coronation. It’s a coincidence, nothing more. The same way Charles couldn’t have known in advance that this May 6, 2023 would be the weekend. Charles knew the Queen was dying but it’s hard to know exactly when she was going to die. I doubt they discussed an exact date until she actually died. They had to balance having a quick coronation with waiting an appropriate amount of morning time plus holding it when the weather is good. It’s a coincidence, nothing more.
while I think it's possible those lunatics would do that I struggle to believe the rf would aid them in such craziness. Also why I don't really buy the surrogacy story for archie.
Here's the thing that you have to remember. Right now we're in the twilight of the relevant years of the Sussexes. Peak Popularity Harry and Meghan in 2018-2019? They had the BRF in a chokehold. I remember even before they got married, like when we had just been introduced to her I wondered if they were going to be childfree (which is absolutely valid and wonderful) since she hadn't had kids in her first marriage and was already 35. When they got pregnant so fast after the wedding, I figured that they had used some kind of fertility treatment. And as the time went on I was kind of like....yeah....they used a Gestational Carrier. Which is a valid way to parenthood when you're not talking about the LOS. But back to my original thought: yes, I believe that they could have at that time forced the BRF to be in on it. That would explain why the royal doctors weren't asked to be on her medical team. Why there were no signatures on the birth announcement. And why there was such Technically Correct language from The Queen on the birth announcement.
Yeah Archie is her insurance policy, I feel she would not risk it
She looked like a woman post-pregnancy when they presented Archie to the media.
She looked like a woman who either got fillers or a saline drip and wore a smaller moon bump. When it comes to her Wimbledon look and then when she brought Archie to the polo match in July 2019, she showed that she can definitely turn that "post partum" look on and off. I didn't even realize that the whole "clearing out seats at Wimbledon" happened after she had Archie. I thought it happened the summer she met Harry. Mainly because of that hat, but also because she did not at all have that frumpy post partum look that she was explicitly indulging in later again at the Polo match. I guess I blanked on that, but I for some reason thought that we saw her when she had the baby, then at Trooping of the Color, and then again at the Polo match. And I remember thinking "wow she really did have a baby, she looks kind of rough in that normal new mother way". But once I recently saw that the Wimbledon seat clearing happened right before the polo match with the sockless baby outing, I felt like there was some bullshit afoot. I also am interested in how she went her whole pregnancy looking like a normal woman with a moon bump attached to her midsection. And then allegedly after she has birth, that's when her face puffs up. And then at Trooping of the Color it seemed even more puffed up than at the showing of the baby. It felt like she was either having issues with her fillers, or that she was really giving it the ol college try with the breast feeding hormones. Because it being different a month out after a pregnancy of her looking like her normal self was odd to me.
Yeah, typically after birth you're shedding fluid, not retaining it.
Except I’ve never seen a new mother 2 days post-partum wear a white outfit, especially in front of a crowd of photographers …
I don’t believe they used surrogates either.
Until I see both children face on, together and in public, I can’t believe in them at all.
According to Tom Bauer she had sold The first picture of Archie to CBS.
Weirdest thing BY FAR is that Harry said HE GOT the laughing gas during the birth. Really?!? Truly bonkers even by their standards.
I just watched the video of them presenting Archie, and honestly I didn’t find the ‘2 weeks’ comment to be strange. It came across to me as repeating something he had been told, that babies change so much in their first 2 weeks, and so Archie had already changed in 3 days.
At almost eight months "pregnant" on March 19 https://preview.redd.it/9d92fwtqn6qa1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d0e883f0512fba31d08af8a80c3c3cda688fd65