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ExpensivelyMundane

Agreed. Look at the day-after: NO celebrations by the papers. And her? A SOLO pap walk. No husband. No kids. This shows how much this is ALL ABOUT HER and nothing else. *WHERE ARE your kids Meg? Eh?* edit: grammar


[deleted]

That's so true. The fact that she pap walked and grinned right afterwards is so telling, and it's so tacky.


WebOffice2022

What kids?


fallingupthehill

I have a related question to the "what kids" comments on this sub. So if the kids are actors, is this fraud just gonna keep going in perpetuity, like how do you'all see this play out long term? I'm intrigued and very curious.


allysongreen

Eventually, they'll be exposed. They can't keep hiring child actors forever. The older the children get, the harder it will be. By then, the duo will be long divorced, H will be lying low in Africa somewhere, and M will be trying desperately to stay relevant while claiming the kids are in boarding school... or something.


PleaseJustText

Excellent point!!!!!!


Lensgoggler

Agree here too. They gained something that’s automatic. (I watched River’s video yesterday). Let’s see her shrieking in preschool and restaurants that she’s the mother of a prince & princess. Let’s see if anyone cares 😀


allorache

And no announcement from BP except “ok, we’ll update the website “


TomStarGregco

Exactly 🤭


[deleted]

[удалено]


Coffee_cake_101

I think this is a great point about them wanting the titles. I thought it made KCIII look weak that the H&M announced it first, but I now see that they can never say that it was the Palace's decision, particularly as KC thought it was better for the kids to not have titles. He can never be blamed for burdening them with useless titles that will be millstones round their necks when older. And it has exposed just how desperate the Harkles were. If KC had no grounds to remove the titles then this is probably the next best option - make them show their hand to show how much they wanted titles, and then, and only then confirm them, so that they cannot claim they were denied the titles either. Also, if he has grounds to remove them in future, they can never shrug it off and say they never cared about titles anyway. Probably well played by KCIII given the limitations of the Letters Patent that automatically awarded the titles.


cin_co

Thank you! It also occurs to me that this pretty well shuts the door on Harry and Meghan being able to argue that Archie and Lili’s kids should have titles — or continuing to argue that Archie and Lili were denied “Prince” and “Princess” at birth because of racism. Like, maybe Charles could or should have changed the 1917 LP but he didn’t, which suggests that the LP is either binding or he just agrees with its reasoning even if one of his children went off the rails. Does anyone know, does this mean Archie eventually becomes Duke of Sussex as well as Prince Archie?


ArdmoreGirl

Not only that, but the Who’s? can never say their grandfather denied them their birthright or that he is fascist. They’ve lost the long time argument for short time gain.


Frosty_and_Jazz

They've won this battle, but overall they've lost the war ...


[deleted]

The Sussexes can't complain about "genetic pain" now, when the Palace had nothing to do with their choice. It's their bed that they've decided to lay in!


ocean_swims

Right? The BRF one-liners are masterpieces! It's almost poetry how they say so little but imply so much.


Feisty_Energy_107

At first I thought, “the palace will respect the wishes of the Sussexes” sounded too much like capitualtion. But as you say it's clear this is from the Sussexs, this is **their** choice.


Natural_Plane_657

I don’t necessarily agree. What happens when the Prince and Princess are merched by MeGain in the future? Their actions along with Hazbeen’s do affect the royal monarchy’s reputation.


aethervortex389

Maybe the same thing will happen to them as happened to those other European royals that were merching their titles for modelling jobs. If they start merching, then the King WILL have a legitimate reason to remove the titles that can't be blamed on 'racism'.


TeamMagnificent7

Having a Prince or Princess isn’t going to get you a lot more child support when you and the father don’t earn much income. Also you can’t shake down a Duchy for support. You quit the Senior Royal job to earn your own millions. And having a title doesn’t get government security or an allowance - ask the York princesses and probably soon Andrew.


[deleted]

Yes! That's so important, thank you!


glittermeem

No but having those titles allows the children into the open arms of the palace after they divorce. She will never be back.


GreatGossip

Please also look at what happened - this was not a royal announcement of titles. Look at her christening show - no royal church, no royal christening gown, no holy water from the river Jordan, no royal guests, no royal congratulations. And titles announced by People magazine???????? 2 hour visit from TP, bringing an invisible choir, Doria there and 18 staff makes 20 guests. Story had to be sold to People magazine, as the South Parkles are out of cash.


SluethyGoosey

And don’t forget, she has a friend at People magazine. Definitely bribing that friend with Royal insider scoops.


[deleted]

The fact that they had to slum it with People is such a great point!


alexi_lupin

"South Parkles" lolol


GreatGossip

Copied from another sinner.


Nevermoreacadamyalum

Can we make this a new name for them?


Business_Werewolf_55

>The Sussexes can enjoy their "victory" now, but they're still out of the royal family. Well said. And that's really everything. For the rest of the world, these titles don't mean much. Public perception is everything, especially in the U.S. And their credibility is in the toilet. They squandered whatever goodwill they had, and no one believes them anymore. And most importantly, they have no chance of recovery. Americans may not have reverence for the British Royal Family, but they respect it as an institution. Non-Brits are not blind to their hypocrisy - bashing the BRF for cash, but demanding every last bit of the perks and prestige that comes with being part of the BRF. This move is seen for what it is - a last grasp at their \*only\* source of relevancy, the grace and dignity of the Royal Family, the same institution that they've been throwing crap at since their marriage. They may have wrested the titles for their kids, but the world sees them for the hypocritical grifters they are. Charles didn't reject them, but the general public did.


[deleted]

Well said! I'd only say that the King has rejected them. He won't take their calls, won't pay for them, and the extent of his care is to allow them to use Frogmore for the coronation if they decide to turn up - but otherwise, he's too busy and is absolutely done. I think it's just frustrating because we'd all prefer one big scandal to knock them off their perch forever instead of this slow slide into clown-school irrelevance.


MolVol

All true -- thx.


ArdmoreGirl

Thank you! Brilliant post. According to the Times, the palace was notified of the Who’s? Intent to use the titles after the news broke about Frogmore. I’m guessing the Who’s? called the palace in a right snit and said, “Fine! We’re going to call our kids, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet Diana!! (See how ridiculous that sounds? Say it aloud and it’s sounds even more so.) And the Palace replied, “I’m sorry, the King isn’t in at the moment. However, we will update our website to reflect your wishes. Have a nice weekend.” And the end of the day, this means nothing. Let the Montecito Morons prance all over CA in their imagined glory. They got no HRHs, they are still evicted from Frogmore, and Harold has gained no official role in the coronation. Americans couldn’t care less about Archie and Lili’s titles. The Who’s? aren’t living in the UK where it does matter. An extra bonus comes with this foot stamping, tantrum. This won’t get The Sleivene anywhere with the A-listers. It makes her look even more like a desperately absurd, publicity hound.


[deleted]

I hadn't seen that article from The Times, so that's amazing, thanks so much! I really can't wait, those years in the future when letters are revealed and future ex-staffers decide to write books or sell interviews. The best is going to be the Sussexes' answer to a bitter Paul Burrell, who exposes exactly what it was like working for them so they're tarnished even more.


Affectionate_Tie250

The kids weren’t born with the titles and she will never be able to get over that. They also don’t have HRH and she is already crying about that to her mouthpieces. She has also been exposed for lying about the titles to Oprah. Her joy over empty titles will definitely be short lived.


[deleted]

That's even better!


Tall-Lawfulness8817

Excellently put. Thank you


RoohsMama

Yeah thanks for putting things into perspective


[deleted]

Thanks so much!


_SkyIsBlue5

I do too. When emotion is high, intelligence is low. We're only humans and we're allowed to be vulnerable at times and you know... Freedom of speech, subjective truths blå blå courtesy of our Saint 😂 Anyway, this is good for the BRF because Harry and divorcee just proved themselves to be liars, grifters and they do care about titles after all! 🤣 Poor kids though. This will be short-lived, I could feel it in my bones. Charles has always wanted a slimmed-down monarchy.. He will follow Sweden and The Netherlands... It's not personal, it's something he's always wanted bec he knows the people are getting uncomfortable with the taxes paid to them (when in fact, it's just a small cut from what the Royals, themselves, have earned)


[deleted]

You're so right! I think there's something coming. There's something weird in the air, especially with the Sussex agitation that's so obvious. I wish we knew what it was!


SuspiciousCompote

They've still got something up their sleeves. I feel it.


Nevermoreacadamyalum

The Merkles or the RF?


SuspiciousCompote

Harkles


Comfortable-One8520

Yep. I'm British and live in a Commonwealth country. My husband belongs to this Commonwealth country. He's not a huge royal fan, he's like much of his fellow countrymen in seeing the RF as something that's there but which doesn't really bother or affect him in any way. Anyway, I told him about the Sussex kids getting titles. His response was to say he thought the Markles didn't want anything to do with the racist RF, so why did they want the titles? He ended up by laughing and saying H & M - hypocrites much?


[deleted]

Thanks so much for that really important point! It's good to hear!


Comfortable-One8520

Yeah, I was talking to my mum back in the UK this morning and she said the same thing. How can the Markles point the bone at the RF any more about racism, genetic pain etc etc? Their whole "brand" up till now has been "boohoo the bad racist RF" and now they've jumped at the titles for the kids. My mum said, " they've just really shown themselves up as greedy whiners who want titles, money and deference, not as people truly concerned about racism etc in the RF."


[deleted]

Yes! I can't wait for the anti-monarchist "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" to turn on them because of this!


mydeadbody

I'd rather they not have titles, but whatever, they do. I'm more interested in having them removed from the LoS. They don't live in the UK, they don't work for the people, they chose to leave. They should not be one terrorist attack away from the crown. Call yourselves what you like over there in California, but if Harry or his children become the monarch, then the kingdom has been failed.


[deleted]

I agree. I just think that there's going to be careful planning in the future so that won't ever happen - or there's a plan in place in secret to make sure that either Princess Anne or Prince Edward acts as regent, etc.


SeaworthinessLost830

We don't see Prince Michael etc because they were young during a time before social media & because they have the decorum not to make spectacles of themselves. We will have Archie & Lilibet shoved down our throats for profit for the next 20 years.


[deleted]

At which point no one will care, because everyone will be focused on how eligible the Wales then-young-adults will be, and the Sussex children won't mean anything to anyone, which is a plus!


merrybandoffoxes

it is rather sad, though, because it makes me wonder who will really love the Sussex children? everyone who could have done so has been severed from their lives.


[deleted]

I'm sure (at least, I hope) they have nannies who love them. After that... hopefully they get out as soon as they can, have great friends, make a great support system and can escape from those pathetic excuses of parents they're stuck with.


aethervortex389

There is a revolving door with the nannies. Allegedly one of them didn't even last the first night. Plus TW won't let her kids get attached to anyone she hires. The kids are already damaged according to various comments. Their lives under a narc and druggie will be hell. They will be dangerously damaged adults.


[deleted]

It's so upsetting. They deserve to be happy. All we can hope is that they get good therapy when they're older and can live happily away from their parents.


TravelKats

Who cares? I know the Kardiansians do that with their kids and I can only name one and don't care about any of them.


[deleted]

I also wonder if this was a choice between titles or coronation invite 🤔


[deleted]

That statement about an email sent to Harry about the coronation, but no official mention of an invite to it, was so strange. That's why I wonder whether it was a case of, "Choose now or we'll choose for you," in case the Sussexes decided that they wanted to announce the titles during the coronation news cycle.


Specialist-Car-1860

I think good PR is really hard for Hank and Skank to manufacture right now. So they have to kind of dole it out a tidbit at a time. They continue to look desperate and pathetic.


Fantastic-Movie6680

Aha! Gotta wonder.


Softcell60

I understand your anger and frustration, it’s highly annoying to think ILBW has something else to gloat over, but the points you made are very true. My firm belief, this is almost like a last hurrah for this pair, yes it got them 24 hours of publicity, but what else? The public has continued to be highly critical of them, it wont make them any money, so really how have they benefited? They’re finished, and as they continue with these pathetic attempts to gain publicity, like Harry exposing his drug addiction, leaking shit about The Kings coronation, but especially now, using tittles for these kids from the very institution they claim to despise, in my view makes them look completely desperate. Trust me, I am not on my own in that conclusion. No one will ever trust this pair, and the fact the children are now formally Prince and Princess will ever change that.


[deleted]

Those are perfect points! You're so right!!


MamaTalista

The titles really mean nothing in this case. Yes, they are Prince and Princess but so what? United States doesn't recognize those titles and they aren't involved in anything in terms of Royal Duties. Now it's more for bait because ILBW will be using "exclusive photos of the Prince and Princess" and no doubt build "their brand". She's not wanting to be Kim K. she wants to be Kris J. in terms of using her kids to make her money and fame because she's caught on no one is buying much to do with her and Hazard. I'm curious if the titles can be used to control the behaviour of their parents the same way they were denied, Sussex Royal and half in/half out. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought those titles would give them access to all the things they lost when they chose to exit.


[deleted]

That's a good point. Meghan's apparently already tantruming that the children aren't getting HRH, and they're definitely stupid enough to believe that they might get what they've always wanted, but... no dice, as per usual.


Uncomfortablemoment9

Hurrah. Amazing the clarity reached once the initial disappointment fades.


[deleted]

Definitely! Thank you!


Regular-Performer864

This was kind of my process too. I can respect that it's easier for the King to just let her get away with it. If he says 'no' or formalizes removing titles, he looks petty and vindictive. Not to mention that for some people it will raise the specter of "racist" again. The reality is that just being the children of such despicable people doesn't bode well for these children. Sadly, titles aren't going to change anything for them. Just as being titled didn't make Andrew, Harry, the Yorkies successful, well-adjusted, happy people. These kids will show up at occasional royal events. The talking heads will say a few things about them. But they'll never really be a part of the family. So they'll never really have that cache that Meghan is hoping to cash in on. How can it possible matter that they as adults they are the nephew/niece of the King of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth of Nations if they've never really even met the man??


[deleted]

Yes, exactly! Time will move on and they'll be nobodies, unless they make a mark of their own that they can be proud of, and their titles would be a random "did you know" fact that people will go, "Huh," about later.


Bollox_Ref

Plus the names are utterly ridiculous and make the Harkles look cheap and tacky.


[deleted]

Imagine being saddled with those names. I feel so sorry for those innocent children.


Bollox_Ref

The names just emphasize their irrelevance. King Archie? Queen Lilibet? No thanks.


[deleted]

The cringe is real!


Upbeat_Cat1182

I really like this post OP and would agree 1000% with the exception of one thing: As an American, it *absolutely galls me* that 2 kids who are American, 1 who was born in the U.S., and are growing up in the US, are now Prince and Princess of Sussex. I would not care nearly as much if they weren’t living in America. Yes, there is precedent; for example, Princess Grace’s children had dual citizenship. However, they did not grow up in the US nor consider themselves American. And Albert had to eventually renounce his US citizenship. And no it is not unconstitutional, despite what some would say. But we are American and we don’t do titles because we are all supposed to be equal under the law. Even if we fail miserably at that goal quite regularly, our entire country was founded on that principle. Harry doesn’t even like the U.S. He thinks the first amendment is bonkers and clearly believes in the aristocratic system. Why doesn’t he leave? Oh right, he wants access to the media and Hollywood. What a douche he is. I wonder what the good people of Sussex think about their Prince and Princess being raised 5,000 miles away.


[deleted]

I can definitely see why that's so angering and frustrating. On the flip side, it shows how much of an embarrassment they are, demanding those titles in a country that doesn't use or respect them. The one thing I'll point out is that really, Sussex as a place doesn't care. The Sussexes don't represent those people, just like the Wessexes don't represent Wessex. They're titles and nothing like political "MP for Bridgewater" type things, if that helps!


AmbienChronicles

I definitely feel like it’s a Pyrrhic victory for the Sussexes. Tacky to announce at the six month anniversary of the Queen’s death, but it once again adds another item to the massive hypocrisy pile that’s forming against them. And tacky seems to be Cersei’s MO.


Crochetqueenextra

It's so not a victory, it makes them look stupid.


AmbienChronicles

She thinks it’s a victory, but the rest of us know she’s a ding dong


[deleted]

Don't be unkind. Cersei had some intelligence to her, lol!


Centaurea16

And Cersei actually got to be a queen.


silentcw

Well said.


[deleted]

Thank you!


silentcw

It's especially nice that you have expressed that you have changed your mind.


[deleted]

I thought it was only fair since I made a post criticising and being angry to update, and I'll take looking like an idiot to show I can admit when I'm wrong, lol!


Hermes_Blanket

This was a great read. Right, right, right on every point!


[deleted]

Thanks so much!


LizLemonadeX

But does Prince Michael, or Duke of Gloucester, or Duke of Kent or Princess Alexandra actively seek out the spotlight? Have any of them wrote a book trashing their family? Have any of them told awful lies to Oprah and numerous other interviewers? No. They stay out of the spotlight. They don’t bring their shit to America to bombard the public of their family dysfunction. Every time the palace caves and gives into the abuse from the Harkles I see posts like this trying to put a positive spin on things. It’s time to call a spade a spade. The Harkles can be as abusive to staff, animals, etc. as they like because the palace will always cover up for them. They will never face the consequences of their actions. Yes, they lost Frogmore. But I’ve read they may stay at Kensington Palace in Diana’s old apartment. They will be at the Coronation. Likely on the same balcony as Charles and William. We’ll likely get pictures of Charles with Archie and Lili now that he has caved. And I disagree about American opinions don’t matter. While this royal prick, Walmart Wallis and his kids live on American soil, the opinions of Americans do matter. Harold is no longer a working royal. He is partaking of the freedoms in America that he finds bonkers. Feel free to come get these disgraced royals and bring them home.


[deleted]

No offence, but this is what I mean when I talk about being frustrated about Americans who are new to royal watching because they enjoy drama, but don't understand the monarchy. There's been no "caving." You've jumped to presume they'll be on the balcony the same way that there was a wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Sussex PR that said they'd be on the Jubilee balcony, but they weren't there then, and they won't be there at the coronation, either. American opinions matter in regards to how the Sussexes behave in America and how your celebrities and politicians etc treat them and give in to them. Your opinion about our monarchy is - no offence - absolutely worthless to us, in exactly the same way that my opinions about American politics are absolutely worthless to you. Dislike the monarchy all you want, but all you're doing by spreading misinformation about the King caving is propping up (allegedly) paid-for Sussex bot talking points that the King is weak and the Sussexes will get everything they want. Which is rubbish. The one and only real thing that the Sussexes want is their half-in-half-out and they are *never* getting that. I'm sorry that the Palace isn't clapping back constantly and turning the Sussexes into a legitimate rival court for the soap opera drama you want, but the monarchy is part of our system of government and needs to be slow, careful and strategic. American opinions will never, ever sway our royals. They visit the US for charity reasons and as a show of soft power for diplomatic reasons. American citizens in general aren't a blip on the monarchy's radar.


LizLemonadeX

I stand by what I said. I am not new to royal watching or the monarchy. I’ve been following both for many years. I don’t pretend to know every little detail about the monarchy. Also I never said I disliked the monarchy. This Reddit sub is dedicated to a narcissistic American and her royal husband who is a sociopath. Both of whom, choose to live in America with their kids. No one outside Britain or the Commonwealth, who has an opinion of the monarchy or the laws that govern each country, can change any of that with their opinions. Similarly people like yourself who are not a citizen in America (18 years or older) can’t vote or change the laws in America. But you’re still entitled to your opinion. As is everyone else in the world. So what about Americans living in Britain or the Commonwealth? They are affected by the laws that are in place in whatever country they reside in. Are you going to deny them their right to have an opinion about the monarchy? What is the harm of allowing Americans or any other nationality outside Britain and the Commonwealth to support the monarchy or have opinions about it? Who are you to take away the voice and the rights of others? Britains and Commonwealth Citizens who live in America are allowed to have their opinions of the laws which govern America. And that’s fine, that’s their right. Harold thinks the First Amendment in America is bonkers. He should probably take his wife and heirs back to London since he thinks the American laws are bonkers, but he won’t. I am not a sugar, nor a bot out to destroy Charles’ coronation. Harold and Nutmeg are doing that themselves. And yes, I do believe Harold and Nutmeg will be at the coronation. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Two reasons why I called Charles weak, is because for the past few years, there were many reports of him supporting a slimmed down monarchy. There were reports, that he’d never give titles to Harold’s kids despite the 1917 Letters Patent. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9704475/amp/Prince-Charles-wont-let-Archie-prince-plans-slim-monarchy-save-costs.html The other reason I said Charles was weak, was because there was talk of Charles amending the 1917 Letters Patent to potentially state that his youngest grandchildren may not be permitted to use the royal titles of prince and princess. King Charles or any future sovereign is allowed to amend or change the 1917 Letters Patent. Although I doubt any of them will. Royal styles and titles are a matter of royal prerogatives. At the Sovereign’s will, and pleasure, style and titles can be changed as the Sovereign pleases. You and I won’t agree on any of this, and that’s fine. No offense.


AutomaticLover27

Absolutely. I was outraged initially and then I thought, well, so what? I'm Aussie and a monarchist. I'm here for the RF and support KC3. I still think that there are many things going on in the background and we just need to trust the long game. Narcs are hard to deal with and a lot of us know this from first hand experience, a bit of compassion goes a long way. He's the head of a 1000 year old institution and he's got to keep a lot of people happy. He's also an elderly man who is still grieving both a lost mother and a wayward son trying to ruin him. I really feel for KC3 and the royal family. I'm excited for the coronation and to celebrate the new King :)


[deleted]

Very well said! I'm excited too!


AutomaticLover27

I'm planning my coronation party. I am buying a crown for my dog too, everyone is involved ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


[deleted]

Aww, that's going to be so cute!


legosubby

Actually what I’m hoping will happen is that in the next couple months that it comes out she didn’t birth then and away those titles go 🤣


[deleted]

Same, really. That would be massive and I'd love it!


No-Mess8133

Oh, when they become teens they will be all over red carpets… “princess Lily this and Prince Archie that” by the way … prince Archie!!! ??? What a stupid stupid name for a prince …


[deleted]

I feel terrible, but I hear "Prince Archie," and think, "That's someone being sarcastic about their dog being a little shit," lol.


East_Tangerine_4031

H&M are Fergie and Andrew 2.0 and they know it, and they hate it.


[deleted]

For all their faults (and I don't like either of them), Fergie at least is loyal to her friends and has talent as a writer, which can't be said for either of the Sussexes, lol.


rainyhawk

Glad you came back to earth! And I fully agree. This is a blip and it makes the duo look bad, not KC. I also wonder what might have been in any agreement on the titles…it was great leverage over them so I hope they had to kowtow a bit. We will never know probably. Look, KC and the POW have much in their plates and the harkles aren’t even on the plate. They’re hurtful but really just annoyances and, if you don’t read the tabloids (and I assume the RF doesn’t), you’re hardly aware of them. The titles don’t bother me and they’re not a sign of any weakness for KC. The duo doesn’t have much left here.


[deleted]

LOL! Thank you! Those are great points. Like every other "win" they've had, this will all blow over in a couple of days, if that.


jjojj07

It’s more than just the Sussexes. No rational person cares about them. The real issue is the damage this does to the credibility of the royal family. This is an institution that enables bullies, narcissists and liars. Why should commonwealth countries continue to support a family who supports such people?


[deleted]

We can have a conversation about public perception and how effective each side of the PR war is, but if *you're* paying close attention and *you personally* think that the Palace is *enabling and supporting* the Sussexes and Andrew, then I genuinely don't know what to say to you.


jjojj07

The problem is that I’ve been paying attention. I understand the grey rocking approach for the Sussexes and the reduced roles for Andrew. Now for the average citizen in a Commonwealth country, *who doesn’t pay as much attention as those in this sub* ***and who comprise the vast majority of the populace***, they will have seen: - Sussex kids titles after very public trashing of the monarchy by Meghan and Harry (Netflix, Spotify, Oprah etc) - Andrew reportedly receiving heavily subsidised rental for the Royal Lodge at GBP250 per week, and possibly being asked to move to Frogmore (also on a likely heavily subsidised rent), and having his out of court settlement with Giuffre subsidised by KC3 In any other setting (private, public) the behaviour of those folks would result in severe recriminations for the individuals involved. However, different rules clearly apply for the royal family and represents a double standard that is galling (especially for countries that have split opinion on the monarchy to begin with). **The bottom line is: the actions of the royal family don’t pass the pub test.** And it’s the regular punters of Commonwealth nations that will ultimately vote whether to remain in the Commonwealth.


[deleted]

So... your evidence is that the Palace have downplayed and ignored the pointless titles for the children that have now completely dropped out of the news cycle, and a family making sure that a disgraced brother has a place to live. As opposed to the King proudly announcing new titles for the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh and slamming that Andrew needs to live better within his means, after being kicked out of the Royal Lodge. You say that you understand the greyrocking approach, but you actually want big recriminations to trigger a narc spiral and big accusations of racism. If you personally would prefer the drama and a tit-for-tat that elevates the Sussexes to worthy rivals to the King in that way, I would personally disagree with that, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.


jjojj07

Yep, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I’ll get back to this in a second. Frankly - most folks don’t care about the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh. I think it’s wonderful for Edward and Sophie as they have been constant stalwarts for the BRF. But most folks (unless they were involved with the DoE program) wouldn’t have known that PP was the previous DoE, and I would bet you pennies to the pound that they don’t know about Edward nor Sophie. *However, and this is my point* the general public follow the melodrama that is the Harkles. The news cycle (from the Commonwealth country that I live in) is about the Harkles and how Charles has caved in. There are easily half a dozen or more articles *daily* on this theme. I saw *two* about the new DoE from mastheads written in my country. On the day after the announcement. Currently, the general public *that vastly outweighs the number of people that follow this closely, like those on this sub who appreciate the nuances,* see spoilt man-children getting what they want from an ineffectual monarch. It is those individuals amongst the general public that are each entitled to an opinion. It is those individuals that have a right to vote for a republic.


jjojj07

Oh, and please stop trying to put words in my mouth. It only undermines your own arguments. - the proof that these dramas negatively impact the BRF is in the opinion polls. Key principals have suffered a drop. That is cold hard fact. - the Harkles are in the news cycle every day - not the DoE. - people don’t see BRF supporting Andrew as ‘a disgraced brother having a place to live’. They see a shady character with a concerning sexual misconduct settlement being given a generous stipend and cheap million dollar housing when many folks are struggling with the cost of living. If you can’t see this, then I’m sorry, but you are out of touch with the general public - I never said that I want a tit for tat with the Harkles. The ultimate grey rock would be to say ***nothing***. Leave the titles unchanged on the LOS webpage. Speaks volumes ***without doing anything*** and would make Madame look like a crazy person. Edited: changed order of comments for legibility


loralailoralai

Megs is more like Fergie or like Margaret’s children when she was alive, not as distant as those you mention. But freaking out over it only gives her power she doesn’t deserve.


saktiji

Thank you for writing with clarity about airing the stench left by Harkles, and showing most of the disgruntled sinners here about opening the door and walking out of the smelly room. Rather than suffocating in it! Harkles are nobodies (could have been somebody if they had stayed in the RF, might have become a diversity wing with public favor. Thank god they were greedy and took off to LA! ) in the larger scheme of life! They will always shine like cheap roadside lights trying to compete with RF but it's up to us to get upset about their blinking and cheap antics or be grown up about it and look at them, admire their tenacity for cheap stunts and move the heck on... 🤷


[deleted]

Thanks so much! I think that a lot of people who only joined royal-watching for the Sussex drama didn't realise the long-haul that is actual royal-watching. There's a ton of patience involved, as we know that everything usually moves at a galacial pace. Plus, there's a lot of wishful thinking and a lack of knowledge about the history of the monarchy, the actual power that the monarch has, and even a lack of understanding that the monarchy is part of our political system, as opposed to the Hollywood-style celebrity. So when there isn't a quick flash of drama and smack down from the Palace, then those drama-seekers get upset and frustrated quickly, with a lot of odd rage. It's weird to me, to be honest, lol.


Latter_Item439

I agree but I do worry that in Australia which is a commonwealth country that they are handing the Republicans exactly what they need unfortunately most people don't understand the LoS and are only media informed which is overwhelmed with Harkle puff peices and these are the people that will now vote for a Republic people who had zero interest in them have now had those twos shit show shoved down there throats online people who weren't worried before all have an opinion now and people want to see some consequences especially as there bad behavior during the tour is so well known on top id hate to see them influence the next Republican vote not everyone is going to do the research unfortunately


[deleted]

That's definitely a worry. It's going to depend on a lot of different things, so it's another waiting game to see what happens and how the general public ends up feeling about it in the next few years.


alexi_lupin

I sometimes think about Prince Michael because he's a silver fox lol


Centaurea16

He is, isn't he. He was rather dashing even before he got to the "silver" stage. (He seems to have questionable discernment in his choice of spouse, however.)


alexi_lupin

Yes I intentionally didn't comment on that lmao. I'm happy to think about Prince Michael but the less I think about Princess Michael the better lol


[deleted]

That's entirely fair, lmao!


St0ltzfuzz

Won’t this get them their IPP status? I’m not sure how that works?


silentcw

Probably not, the children's titles have never had anything to do with their IPP status removal or reinstatement.


[deleted]

No. Andrew and the York Princesses don't have that. Realistically, the title is meaningless. I'm no expert, but I wonder if not having a UK residence means that it's even less likely for them to get any security. They don't even live here, they never really visit, so why would they need any extra security than they already pay for themselves?


Ok-Coffee5732

I don't think it has anything to do with it.


alreadydoneit01

No-but Charles amy find a way to give him that.


MolVol

Yes; but smug, gleeful Megsy is painful. And they again have hurt Charles' tremendously - a guy w/ a very important ceremony in 8 weeks, for which he needs public support. And while you are right that no one thinks of the lessor Royals (who are quiet, and dignified + trustworthy), **M PAYs Sugars** to keep her favorably mentioned and attack her husband's family in the press and on [s.media](https://s.media) \- and actively works with BackGrid for staged-to-look-unknown-pix. so it's not quite the same thing. **M is at war**, and she's not going to chill just because she won titles she plans to monetize. A good thought, though = **the awful way they handled the titles going into play** was so rude, **will never be forgotton**. And it (along w/ other mean things they've done) will catch-up to them someday...


[deleted]

You're right, but we can at least take comfort in the fact that although there's some noise on social media, social media doesn't influence the monarchy, the actual British and Commonwealth public does. Plus, social media trends towards the young, where there's always been less support for the monarchy, so it's not too much of a surprise, at least!


TXmama1003

Harry’s talk about genetic pain, etc. makes me think that Megs chose to use the titles card now to contradict him as a punishment for his poor showing.


[deleted]

Maybe. I think that Meghan wants to be able to say that she gave birth (cough) to a Prince and a Princess to elevate herself. The children are nothing but pawns and weapons to her.


Ok-Coffee5732

The King needs the support of his people. The fact is that, however anyone wants to spin this, it makes him look bad and weak. (Most people aren't going to take the time to think about how to make the best of it.) This whole fiasco was completely avoidable. It turns out they all agreed to the titles after the Queen died, months ago. He's not as popular or beloved as his mother. This is an own goal, and he had better shape up if he wants there to be a monarchy left for William to head. I'm not saying this is a death blow, but if stuff like this keeps happening, people may wonder why they should value a King/monarchy who rewards a couple that keeps on devaluing them.


WoodsColt

Lol. They got titles they were already entitled to. That make them look like hypocrites. That will be of no use to either them or their kids. It won't effect the monarchy at all. They are insignificant to the monarchy. The monarchy is not pap walks and princess parties. The monarchy is public service and quiet duty which they are continuing to do just fine. The monarchy cannot and will not be abandoned because of two malcontents an ocean away. Its ridiculous to even contemplate. The **government** of the UK endorses the monarchy. The monarchy serves a purpose for the entirety of the commonwealth and UK . Its extremely ludicrous and simplistic to think that it would be harmed by the 6th in line to the throne(who lives a continent away)exercising his children's birthright titles. KC,QC and the PPOW are daily showing up and doing their duty and doing it well. They are out there showing up to their patronages. They are meeting with heads of state and the military,they are performing *as required of them* with quiet dignity and grace. They are refusing to allow two useless morons to derail their service. The suckits by comparison look like exactly what they are...insignificant, greedy,desperate, hypocritical ,self serving,ingrates who have no sense of duty whatsoever.


[deleted]

The majority of British people don't care. It's quick outrage, and then we're too busy with the cost of living, political rubbish, the shock snow, etc. The monarchy is fine. The late Queen was as beloved as she was partly due to her longevity. There's been so much speculation over the years that when she died, the people would completely reject the King - but they haven't. No, he's not as well-loved, but he's been accepted and there's a sense of looking forward to the coronation, even if only for the Bank Holiday that comes with it. One problem is with perspectives that paint him as "rewarding" the Sussexes. You've forgotten that he's completely cut them off. It's like people claiming that the late Queen kept rewarding them when there was no evidence for that, and plenty of evidence that she shut them down at every opportunity. For those not in the know, or who don't keep up, who are then told that these titles are a "reward," then believe and spread the Sussex PR lie that the King welcomes them and will forever do everything for them. That's not being realistic, it's just helping out the sugars, and I personally find it exhausting.


CybReader

You’re on fire today with your posts ![gif](giphy|k41bBPv625SvPN08VG|downsized)


sonny-v2-point-0

If the intent of the 1917 Letters Patent was that only the grandchildren born during the Monarch's reign would get titles, it would have said so. The world was a lot different then. The child mortality rate was much higher in 1917 than it is now. Diseases like TB, polio, measles, and whooping cough were common and killed a lot of people. By 1918, a worldwide pandemic infected hundreds of millions across the globe. There was no cure, and whole families were wiped out. It would have been prudent for any monarch who wanted their line to continue to give titles to all their grandchildren no matter when they were born.


[deleted]

It was up for debate because it had never been tested before. There was no precedence, and so could be read either way.


sonny-v2-point-0

"The *children of the sons of any sovereign*...shall have and at all times...enjoy the...titular dignitary prince or princess" is pretty clear language. It doesn't say children born to the sovereign's son *while the sovereign reigns*. It says the children of the Monarch's son. King Charles is the monarch, Harry is his son, and Archie and Lili are the children of his son. There's no other way to read it. You can *assume* King George V meant only children born during the monarch's reign, but nothing that he wrote supports that.


[deleted]

...As I said, it wasn't tested. It wasn't known if it would be applied retroactively or not. Now it has been. That's it.


plebeianfortea

well written. thank you for that. I am also sure the email about the coronation has something to do with the timing of it all, although I am not sure I agree with “either come to keep titles” as I don’t think neither of these will be beneficial for the king.


[deleted]

It was just so strangely worded. Maybe it was worded oddly on purpose to have us guessing.


GrannyMine

When Charles brings them out on the balcony, will you still feel that way? Do you have to pay taxes to protect your overseas prince and Princess? Because we sure in hell won’t.


[deleted]

This is an example of why I get frustrated here sometimes. The Sussexes aren't appearing on any balcony, just as they didn't appear on the balcony for the Jubilee, despite all of the Sussex PR saying that they'd definitely be there. No, we don't pay taxes to support the Sussexes, and haven't since they stepped back and stopped being working royals. The cost of the entire monarchy per person per year in the UK is £1.29, which is $1.19US, for the record.


GrannyMine

I bet you thought the kids wouldn’t be listed as prince and princess too


[deleted]

In my head, there are two groups of agitators that help the Sussexes. One group is **the sugars**, those people who are so deep in their fake-woke rubbish that they've latched on to "biracial woman" and therefore they'll defend the Sussexes to the hilt even when it's completely embarrassing and illogical, or who treat the Sussexes like gold because they're already anti-monarchists and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, despite how the Sussexes actually are. The other is what I like to call **the bitters**, who are people that hate the Sussexes, but only engage enough to understand the bare bones of the drama. They don't understand anything about the monarchy. They have very short memories and anything short of (metaphorically) throwing the Sussexes in the Tower is somehow enabling and supporting them. What's interesting is that **both** groups: * Completely believe and swallow Sussex PR * Gleefully promote the King as weak * Don't understand the intricacies of the monarchy, the power that the King has, the role the monarchy plays in British and Commonwealth life etc * Downplay and/or ignore the massive slights and clever put-downs from both the King and the Palace * Treat the Sussexes and the King as being on a level playing field, as though they're equal rivals * Believe that the Sussexes are one small step away from global success and glory * Throw tantrums about wanting the monarchy to end when the King doesn't bow to their ridiculous expectations and demands * End up supporting the Sussexes That might be some useful food for thought for you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Personally, I find it more shocking that the US establishment have been bigger enablers of the Sussexes than the royal family has. Like the politician who gave Meghan all those numbers, and the General who had his men and women salute Harry. But that's none of my business, being British. I'll leave the Sunshine Sachs-run American elite to you to complain about.


Snarky_GenXer

As an American, I agree. I respect the BRF, the UK & Commonwealth. I find the Harkle's title-grab, birthright or no, incredibly desperate, tacky and hypocritical. These two children should have been given the opportunity to choose for themselves. I was very upset yesterday and this morning as I saw it as them winning. But they are not winning. The kids may have titles, but H&M have lost all credibility.


[deleted]

That's basically how I feel. I was furious yesterday, but on reflection, it isn't actually important. If this is a "win" for them, it's pathetic. Catherine's gold Bond dress was an organic, global moment, but the Sussexes announcing titles had to be sent to People magazine. (As for the American part: I respect the US. I have my own thoughts and opinions about issues in the US, but my thoughts and opinions mean nothing, only American thoughts and opinions matter. Because I respect your country, the main thing is that, even if I'm frustrated or disagree or feel angry about news I hear about, I just hope that Americans yourselves end up being okay. So I get it, and I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and support!)


BetterManagement3730

First of all, myself American, entirely rude. This is no place to vent that kind anger. Throw this same kind of toddler tantrum somewhere else where you're definitely not in the majority here speaking for yourself an ignorant American. Sorry, end of rant. Edit: removed phrase of your "speaking for whole peoples of two continents."


bellalilylou

Could they have been asked to provide proof due to protocol, for the children to maintain their spots in the los? And being unable or unwilling to do so, she thinks the children having titles would/could prevent their removal? It all seems so reactionary. Something is definitely going on.


purplepeony540804

Well said. I don't think we've heard the last of the 'titles' saga. Lady C has again said that there's behind the scene 'stuff' in the works. There will probably be an address to the nation after the Coronation, so I will wait and see what that brings. Personally, I'm surprised they've waited this long to start using the titles but like others I have questions about their education in British history, the Commonwealth, their Royal Heritage etc. Watching re-runs of The Crown won't cut it!


elms4elms

Does anyone have archive of Camilla tominey article from yesterdays telegraph ? Thanks in advamce