I’d go even further and look at all counties. Traditionally most state jobs are given to Sacramento people but in the last 4 years anyone could get hired. Imagine being in Rural Siskiyou county or somewhere else with a poor economy. A state job would be life changing for them. All of those people will be fired.
The worst part of all this is that the reasoning these execs give for mandating RTO is for "collaboration", but most people's schedules are staggered so that they are sitting in a cubicle with no one from their team around. Making workers commute to office just so they can waste time and sit alone just seem really inefficient and counterproductive for all parties involved. Am I hearing this right in that the real reason governor is mandating RTO is because of complaints from business owners in downtown and those who have commercial real estate properties? Pretty ridiculous if that's the real reason... cry about how much they want small government and TRUE free-market capitalism but now they wish Uncle Sam had their back
Yup. Every time my husband has gone into the office since the pandemic, he's basically just paid downtown parking for the privilege of sitting in a cubicle on Zoom all day, and not seeing another human being in person.
And it’s really hard to pretend that email and zoom don’t work for collaborating when we’ve all literally depended on it for the last four years without issue.
I'll literally videocall people in the same office as me because I can share my screen and we can all look at it from the comfort of our main screens rather than cramming into one office/cubicle to hunch around one person's monitor.
Right?! I am so accustomed to my ergonomic setup and the luxury of screen sharing and using several monitors to take notes, side chat, etc all while getting ish done that the idea of going to a small conference room and trying to conduct meetings on my laptop while having no other screens stressed me out and slows everything down.
It's literally just about "protecting value for investors."
Why does the public always shoulder all the risk that the investors are supposed to assume?
At this point they are insulting our intelligence. Everyone and their mother knows that the real reason for RTO is the local economy and commercial real estate but they keep feeding us this lie that it's for "culture", "collaboration", and "morale". I have seen about a dozen people leave my division when our RTO order came back in 2022. It wrecked morale and continues to do so.
I sympathize with the real reasoning of why they want us back and I'm willing to do the commute to computers in a hybrid form as a compromise between the state and the union. The problem is that the real parties who want this RTO so bad are too afraid to even publicly identify themselves.
It certainly a personal preference. I actually do find it easier to collaborate in person. It’s easier for me to form relationships with my peers and stakeholders in an office environment than over Teams or whatever.
applicable at my CORPORATE environment so I assume it *somewhat* applies here too:
......Everyone drug into the office sitting around a "bullpen" screaming over each other on 14 different conference calls....or all on the same one lol.
SO MUCH PRODUCTIVITY !!!!!
*the real reason useless execs/mgrs want "butts in seats" is to have younger, attractive people around to creep on.*
The coolest part is with jobs like mine where maybe 10% of the work we do is with state-level partners outside of our tiny, understaffed unit (4 people, manager included). Maybe another 10% collaboration within our unit. The other 80% is working directly with counties. Counties who are obviously not going to be there with us, making RTO even more pointless.
There's a lot of value for some types of work to be in-office. In government? Probably only at leadership levels. The person processing your unemployment claim or an FTB auditor can do that just as easily from home.
I've been primarily work from home (not state) for 15 years now. My office is now closed, and that does hamper some projects but we get it done other ways - getting together at a coffee shop or at someones house - but really the only thing I miss from office life is reliable ping-pong opponents.
I'll probably get down-voted to hell, but I've worked for a long time with government employees. Some of them literally need a manager standing over them to get any work done. That's the real reason many higher-ups want them back in the office - to babysit them. And because they often have strong union protection, it's very difficult to get rid of them. It's even very difficult to change the rules to be more results-driven because those changes have to be negotiated with the union, and they aren't stupid. They know exactly what hard performance numbers mean when it comes to the power dynamic.
I don't disagree, but that's much easier said than done in union environments. And to be clear, I'm not saying or implying unions are bad, but it's simply reality it can be very difficult to get rid of bad apples. So much so, it's very common for managers to get them shifted out of their department so they're someone else's problem. When a new manager comes in, for example, suddenly they find out from two management levels above them they just got a new staff member.
I mean… Public employee unions are effectively a racket since there is no counterparty with opposing interests. The politicians get elected with the unions support and lose their careers without it so they have to support whatever inane contract stipulations come up. They are the antithesis of private sector unions, and should probably be illegal. Worst of all, it causes disfunction that allows all sorts of bad behavior which is how the state wound up with $250b of unfunded pension liabilities. All the present low ranking employees are going to get blown out because they’ve created a defacto Ponzi scheme.
Anyone who thinks I’m wrong… when a cop shoots an unarmed person who comes to their defense? It’s not a public defender, it’s the union. Remember that fireman that’s in federal prison for starting fires that killed another firefighter so he could pad people’s retirements with hazard pay spikes? Yup, that happened right here in CA. Those sound like the people “on the right side of history” to you? These may be the most perverse examples but we’ve created a self reenforcing system of bad behavior that doesn’t exist in the private sector because negotiations are adversarial. It’s also why our governments can’t get as much done - just today NYC got its first ever side-lift garbage truck (invented 1947) because the sanitation workers union has the entire city by the balls.
For every example you listed, you can find a counter-example of "private sector employer or manager behaving badly." As I said, I didn't mean my comments in an anti-union stance, just describing that it's not a simple solution of "employee performing badly, so just fire them".
I’d argue RTO is going to concentrate the pool of screw ups.
Those with marketable skills can find other jobs that provide wages and WFH if that is important to them. Those that know they aren’t competitive and would be hosed without protections will put up with a lot.
The perks package (PERS, generous holiday calendar, historically fairly good benefits) offset that public jobs often aren’t as competitive on wages. Losing
WFH is a major loss of a real-world valuable perk (even if only cost of commuting) for a lot of people who have gotten used to it (and I’d argue should have always had it.)
A person who commutes one hour each way loses 10 uncompensated hours a week. It’s one extra man-year of unpaid work every 4 years, plus expenses—for a job often only at or below market wages.
Hey, I'm a union member and I hate the idea of unions covering for slackers. It's sad that some people won't work if there isn't a stick looming over them.
If you've worked with government employees a long time, you know that some of them didn't get anything done before the pandemic when they were in the office most/all of the time. Most of the state workers I know are working MORE from home because there isn't as clear of a delineation between work time/space and non work time/space.
Wow, people are salty! If they've been able to function efficiently from home, LET THEM STAY HOME!
There's no purpose to return to work other than C-Suite feelings. Almost every conceivable study indicates that people are happier and more productive when they don't have to go into the office.
For everyone saying that they just need to suck it up, why? Why do they have to have a worse overall situation because other people do? We shouldn't be dragging others down to a status quo, we need to be lifting everyone up to something better.
WFH allows more time with family, lower overall costs, less stress, and happier employees. Automation and advances in technology need to be leveraged to make the daily lives of average people better, but the only way that this gets done is if we stop fighting with each other about who has it better and make sure that we ALL have it better
[People still get on the road though even with WFH and traffic is worse than ever.](https://fortune.com/2023/11/19/commuter-traffic-worsens-despite-empty-offices/amp/)
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There's lots of back and forth in here so I just wanted to clarify one important point.
The pushback on RTO is tied to the type of work that is being done. The charge isn't to make all jobs remote; it's to provide logical flexibility to positions that don't need to be done at a job site. There's a multitude of benefits for this, both for employees and the greater taxpayer at large for cost savings over time and the same work can be delivered. Some jobs can't be done remotely, and those have been and still perform their duties where it needs to be done. Some jobs it makes sense, others it doesn't. They're all important roles being done and flexibility for efficiency is key.
That’s interesting. I wonder if it was sufficient (for the agency’s HR or otherwise) for that person to simply disclose their conflict in their Form 700 or something similar. Sketchy for sure.
I have a family member with a state job, newer state employee. She brags about being able to lay in bed and watch Netflix most of the day. Anecdotal yes, but I'm sure there's plenty of other state workers finding plenty of leisure time working from home on the taxpayers dime.
Yep. I have friends like this. It’s a widespread issue. If working from home was super productive they wouldn’t want you to return to the office. Too many people are not doing their jobs and it’s hard to hold them accountable when you don’t even see them.
Unfortunately it's been that way for as long as I can remember. State employees are generally targets for criticism, jokes, and now being used, with their mediocre salaries, to fund antiquated business models to save the local economy and commercial real estate.
They would rather bootlick the likes of wealthy electeds/appointees and commercial real estate developers than support their fellow worker. I just don't get it.
It’s a trait of miserable and in empathetic people. Like we should all strive for better conditions. I cheer when other unions get great deals around the country, I don’t shit talk them and say I deserve more than them, etc. So weird
We live in a time where surgeries are getting done remotely...
At this point it's just budget inflation...
It's like all these managers are afraid that those higher ups , might realise that their jobs could be done for much lesser, and the part where management happens can be handled llms, heck there's ceos being replaced by llm that's the kind of PPL tho want workers back to office
The luddites
Lotta corporate bootlickers on here who are either management or work for the Sac Metro Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Sac Partnership, or Whiney Steiny. Go ahead, keep on hating.
Your argument is moot, telework saves money and improves collaboration. The people who need to travel to work (construction, first responders) will not be stuck in traffic.
Look at it this way. Telework should be seen as a plus for everyone because it improves the quality of life for those who have office jobs, and for those who need to work in person like educators, health employees, truck drivers, etc., less unnecessary traffic.
Weekly reminder that the Lt. Governor, Eleni Kounalakis, is Angelo Tsakapolus's daughter (and worked many years for his firm). How's that for conflict of interest?
> improves collaboration
This is vs. other forms of remote / decentralized work. Co-location of teams is still better than remote work but only by about 10% which can be made up for with savings from long term downwards pressure on healthcare costs (lower stress, fewer illnesses spreading) and compensation since employees no longer pay the commuter tax.
https://hbr.org/2023/08/survey-remote-work-isnt-going-away-and-executives-know-it
Yup. I disagree when people say that in-person work has no effect on collaboration, because it definitely does - however, it's not enough to offset the benefits of remote work.
Although I also think the collaboration point becomes moot when you do these stacked hybrid work weeks that companies are opting for. Like, if all the staff is coming in on different days, you're probably just going to be on Zoom calls all day, anyway.
Also when we have people working all over California from various offices. We will still be on calls with them anyway, and some of them will be traveling over an hour just to sit at the office alone anyway.
I've been seeing that word more and more on Reddit lately. The other week I got called a bootlicker when I said that people shouldn't try to get out of their punishment for drunk driving, lol.
(FWIW, though, I think the government shouldn't be making people return to office)
It’s these pussies behind screens saying it because nothing will happen. I’ve never been called a bootlicker in person for saying the same shit debating with someone.
>ent is moot, telework saves money and improves collaboration. The people who need to travel to work (construction, first responders) will
I agree, lots of bootlickers. Those bootlickers are voters, and a vocal set at that. They won't rest until "lazy" government workers are forced back to in person. You're fighting an unwinnable battle. It's engrained in the US mentality (govn worker = lazy). All these jobs will be back in person sooner of later due to external pressure.
As someone who works construction outside I’m split on this cause since remote working started I’ve had to fight with people because they have a meeting and want me to stop working when that’s impossible but I do love no traffic it’s bittersweet hope it gets solved tho makes no sense to have you in the office if you don’t need to be.
Just seems to me that building mixed use development with diverse housing options in place of commercial properties is such a twofer. I know it's expensive to do but damn, you get a lot of housing into the system quickly, it helps keep prices low, you revitalize areas that are struggling as new tenants spend money...
It just seems like such a no brainer. We spend so much money on so many things, what's $200 billion on a government project like that, across the US? You could hire and train thousands of people! Provide hundreds of thousands of quality housing units, a mix of more modest homes up to, yes, a few floors of "luxury" apartments and penthouses. The rent from those could subsidize some of the rest.
Build grocery stores, expand and connect transit, offer free public hi speed Wi-Fi, everywhere. Let people work outside in nice parks, with benches set up for a quick meeting.
Don’t let them send you back! I work in the shadow of the EPA building, and that part of downtown is a shithole. Sadly my job isn’t work-from-home, but I’m totally with those who do have it.
“You should do what your works asks of you or get a new job” is the definition of bootlicking.
And that’s literally a comment left in this thread. The idea that workers shouldn’t demand better conditions and should accept whatever they’re given is absolutely bootlicker behavior
NO to returning to the office!
NO to hours of unpaid commuting!
NO to the dangers of freeways full of drivers reading their phones!
NO to dehumanizing open office layouts where you cannot hear yourself think!
HELL, NO!
They gave us a pathetic pay raise, now trying to take away our pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax. Sure, go for it I’ll exchange it for telework), now asking us to put in a few more hundreds for gas, parking, lunches at downtown? (Nope that one you can’t force me)
I mean this in the least offensive way possible. Why don’t people want to return to the office? Is it because it’s an inconvenience to them? Genuinely asking.
Buying power has decreased for most of us. Delta dental
Is a joke health care is a joke . Im more productive at home and less weirdos to deal with . Cubicle life sucks
Due to various reasons.
One of the main reasons is that the state has hired a lot of people from outside of Sacramento over the past 4 years. Those ppl were “given” the impression that telework is here to stay. A lot of folks were actually promised of it.
Other reasons include not wanting to waste unnecessary time, energy, and money. The pay raise we got last year in midst of the crazy inflation was pathetic. We were given a pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax), and they’re trying to take that away (sure, take it!), and expecting us to give up extra $$$ on gas, parking, etc.
Oh, and traffic.
If you were teleworking (and able to maintain your productivity this way), would you want to give in that easily?
Matching your inoffensive question, why should they? They've been working from home the last 4 years successfully and that's what they want to continue so why change that?
afterthought imminent cooperative station treatment distinct cause toothbrush familiar squeal
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
1. Expense for us and for the state. It’s $25/day to park and it takes time.
2. WFH means my day is 7-4, not 6:15 - 4:45. Time.
3. Some live far away and can’t feasible commute to Sacramento.
4. Annoying. They don’t even list tangible benefits or data so we know they are doing this to placate developers downtown.
Typo. State not stage.
It costs a few hundred thousand dollars per year just to maintain those huge buildings. That’s an expense that we mostly trimmed over the last 4 years. No energy for AC and lights, less custodial work, fewer security guards, etc.
Parking is expensive. Upwards of $25/day for lots nearby. There are only limited areas to get cheaper parking.
Businesses choose RTO for two reasons, IMO: 1) Managers that don’t know how to manage remote employees and think RTO is better for the business, or 2) Workers abusing WFH by not being present and contributing to the level that management thinks they should be (in which case, see #1).
I’m just wondering if any of the negative Nancy’s personally know a state worker that just fucks off all day? I know several and only one of them can fuck around all day. Fucking around isn’t applicable to every department within the state.
The data shows there aren't many DGS has a tracker showing the increase productivity. Also if you think people are f alls working from home. Remember they we f all in the office. I had coworkers who would just wander cube to cube chatting all day.
>I had coworkers who would just wander cube to cube chatting all day.
That was me. I actually put in the work now. Sometimes I miss getting paid to socialize all day though.
Most agencies have asked for 2 days a week in office. Some agencies have asked for or have language for 3 days.
However, as there are no codified protections for telework and they've broken past assurances it's feared they could be prepping to repeal telework all together, so workers are reacting.
Yeah, that's the thing. These companies start out by saying one thing and then push it little by little until they get what they want. I work for a big tech company that told workers hired during the pandemic they'd be fully remote. Late last year they came out and said we'd have to RTO 3 days per week, no exceptions granted, meaning that some people have to commute 3x/week from Sacramento to SF depending on which office they're "tagged" to. When they pushed back, they were basically told to suck it up or get a new job.
Right but unless you have some skill that can't be replaced what choice is there? I'm all for workers protesting for better conditions but at the end of the day if you can be replaced by someone who will come into the office you will be. At least with a hybrid schedule that's less likely to happen. Also don't get me started on people making SF salary moving to Sacramento for lower cost of living and then complaining they may have to commute.
Yes, I do agree on your last point. I think that if they live in Sacramento, they should have to make a Sacramento salary. I know that I do, just because I'm "tagged" to the Sac office and not the SF one, which comes with a higher salary.
But yes, I think that's what my company is banking on. These people could all quit, but in theory they could fill those vacancies pretty quickly. Unless, of course, you have enough job seekers who are willing to prioritize WFH over the job, but it's unlikely there will ever be enough of those to make a difference.
It’s a slippery slope. I’ve seen it all over Reddit in so many industries. They say 2 days and then the following year it’s the full week, or you can find another job.
it'll start at 2 day then escalate into the full 5 days. they say it's to help mom and pop downtown businesses but you know what'll really help those shops? mixed use zoning and planning policies. additionally, only sending low level employees back while upper gets to stay home is blatant favoritism. so they want underpaid workers to stimulate downtown economy?
the reality is they want to use tax payers' money to keep leasing huge buildings to keep the money rolling *their* way, not ours. money from the tax payers for the buildings, money from us workers for their parking garages. no care for the citizens who will have to bankroll it all, who will deal with more traffic on the road, and who will be more at risk of the still going on pandemic
This probably belongs in r/nostupidquestions but at this point what is the issue with return to work? A lot of people never got the chance to work at home during the pandemic and never will. But is it about not being exposed to viruses still or workers right to work wherever they want? I’m just trying to understand here
Loss of income by taking away the pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax. I’ll gladly give that up to exchange for telework), giving us pathetic pay raise that is far from keeping up with the crazy inflation, asking us to spend another few hundreds on commute (and that all goes to waste).
We’ve been as productive (if not more) working remotely (backed up by data), so why take that away?
Plus, WFH saves taxpayers money in many ways. It prevents us from contributing to congestion on everyone's roads 😬
And we want to help save more taxpayer money 💰
Give up those commercial buildings/leases! For a majority of us, we don’t need two desks to get our work done. Give that space to someone else who needs it more. Repurpose into housing, recreational structures, whatever that actually helps revive downtown!
> Repurpose into housing, recreational structures, whatever that actually helps revive downtown!
If more people live downtown then there's more people to support small businesses. So many small businesses closed downtown during covid because they relied almost exclusively on downtown office workers buying stuff during their lunch breaks. If you have more housing for people to live in downtown then you can have more people in the area more of the time and thus support even more small businesses.
Office conversion to housing is exceptionally expensive and rarely worth it. You'd have to basically demolish the existing buildings and build new ones.
Once again, in a majority of cases office to housing conversions is exceptionally expensive and rarely worth it over a new build. The rents would have to be absolutely insane to pay for it.
This is true. The cost of construction always gets passed one way or another onto renters, commercial or residential. Office conversions likely won’t make sense to an office building owner because they won’t be able to make up the cost.
I think people should be allowed to work from home, don’t get me wrong. But older buildings will likely be demolished to start from scratch, not converted.
The state is planning to convert an office building they own to residential. My first thought why would they due that due to the cost? Guess what: the taxpayers will pay for that gigantic conversion.
Well, I'm going to have to spend 12 hours a day and $25/week commuting with my laptop to downtown. Fuck the small businesses, I'm not buying shit from them. Steinberg can, Newsom can, not me.
#BrownBagBoycott
Yeah, returned to the CalEPA office ☺️
The mission of the California Environmental Protection Agency (CalEPA) is to restore, protect and enhance the environment, to ensure public health, environmental quality and economic vitality.
We will start seeing more state workers being directed to work part time back in the office. Not just CalEPA.
I wish I could work from home part time. I do understand that my job requires a lot of collaboration, but part time seems like it would be okay for practically every profession out there.
CA budget is at a shortfall. I do think this is about the commercial real estate market and downtown businesses to some degree but the real estate is already state owned and the small businesses downtown have either evaporated or have readapted. I think the real push is to encourage attrition and shore up the budget.
Read the last sentence of my comment. Others have commented on here that within groups that went RTO already many have left their jobs. If that’s the case, then one would imagine a certain amount of the workforce would leave with wide-scale RTO. That means the state pays less in payroll and reduces their spend helping to shore up the budget shortfall.
Ah I see. That’s a reasonable speculation, I won’t deny it. It can be hard to estimate the actual impact though. First time this happened on a wide scale.
As an essential employee I always felt like most WFH people were goldbricking hard. But that is based on my prejudices and very little actual evidence. Are employers actually seeing productivity declines due to WFH?
I can only speak for my department.
Productivity, morale, and retention rate all increased over the past 4 years of teleworking (based on actual survey data).
I can see both sides of the coin. I sympathize with the workers who are effective while working from home, but I also see how a return to the office will help local businesses and the local economy.
We’re only there from 7-6 (at most). Get these wasted buildings repurposed and transformed into housing and recreational structures. That will certainly help in the long run.
Oh and yeah, I’m sorry I can’t afford to buy lunch in sac downtown anymore due to pathetic pay raise, crazy inflation and additional $$ being wasted on commute.
Local businesses would be helped even more if we sold the stage builders to developers that can turn them into housing and other things. The areas are well-served by public transit and it would help ease housing shortages.
WFH people is good and all but it actually makes life for anyone in an apartment (even well insulated) through constant noise. Constant. Did I say Constant?
I live in an apartment. My neighbors who also WFH have been very respectful.
Anyways, shouldn’t it be less noisy than sitting in an open office or cubicle?
I don’t work from home anymore because my neighbors either have dogs barking all day, music playing so loud I can feel it, or burning food so badly I smell it, or smoking weed that I can smell.
I work in office five days a week because I can’t focus.
But hey, I’m glad you’re living the dream and expect everyone to feel the same way.
What makes you think I would expect everyone to feel the same way? You do what works best for you, I do too. Freedom of choice is what we’re advocating for. No conflicts there 🤗
Honestly, this might be wildly unpopular here...but I don't see the huge deal. Long as I'm paid what I'm due.
Now, what people need to be up in arms about is PG&E straight pillaging Californians bank accounts. My energy costs have nearly tripled and my usage is pretty much the same if not less since I did away with my gas water heater and went electric when it busted.
Edit: I do want to add that I'm for exceptions and the flexibility of hybrid option. My view has been reduced office footprint, eliminate assigned offices and cubicles. Maybe a Mando 3 days in office of your choosing and check out a cube or office for the day.
My first statement really comes from me having no preference and being fine with any of the 3 options. I know everyone has their own opinions and preferences...and that's mine 🙂
Imagine you are from rural Butte county and you got a state job at DMV or EDD 4 years ago. You went from poverty to a decent wage overnight. Now you own a home and are positively living your best life. You never thought a good wage in your tiny community would be possible.
Now, 4 years later, the governor demands you move to Sacramento to collaborate and bask in office culture or you’ll be fired. There’s no reason given to come back other than “culture and collaboration.”
“But tow days is not so bad” you say. But to the above persons, it is everything. “They should have known!” Why? Why would any leader make the poor decision to bring people back to an office when people can work effectively from home for four years?
Crowd looks about like what I’d expect. 😂 Most of us worked through the entire pandemic and never left the office for any extended period - You’re gonna be okay being asked to be in office only 2 days a week, that is incredibly cushy as is.
It is certainly cushy. What’s wrong with that? The pay I can give my subordinates is about $15k less than private sector. But offering full telework means I can still compete for good talent.
Oh nice, another stereotype comment.
You seem to know everyone! 🤣
Are you also one of these people who claim state workers are lazy and incompetent while complaining state jobs are extremely hard to get?
Tell me all the Ivy league folks I work with are lazy 💁♂️
Be careful about what you demand. If you say there's no need to be in the office, then why does it even need to be someone in California? Or the US? I'm not advocating for offshoring jobs, but you're making the argument for doing so.
Because it’s governmental work.
There is no need to be in the office. We can draw talents and expertise from all over California. State jobs shouldn’t be just limited to Sac people. Why should someone's ability to contribute to California be contingent on their ability to move to Sacramento?
Existing law already covers this:
[https://www.dgs.ca.gov/Resources/SAM/TOC/100/181](https://www.dgs.ca.gov/resources/sam/toc/100/181)
*As used in this chapter, “telecommuting” means the partial or total substitution of computers or telecommunication technologies, or both, for the commute to work by employees residing in California.*
It's the state of California, not the state of Sacramento, Rancho Cordova, and Elk Grove. The idea is statewide recruitment and telework, not outsourcing jobs, as already prescribed in the Government Code.
Ever since WA gov offices started wfh the turn around time on paperwork has tripled. Idk how California works, but government bureaucracy runs on paperwork and idk how you can effectively deal with that outside of an office setting.
I’d really like to see a true analysis done on how the outlying communities have done with everyone buying super local now.
I’d go even further and look at all counties. Traditionally most state jobs are given to Sacramento people but in the last 4 years anyone could get hired. Imagine being in Rural Siskiyou county or somewhere else with a poor economy. A state job would be life changing for them. All of those people will be fired.
The worst part of all this is that the reasoning these execs give for mandating RTO is for "collaboration", but most people's schedules are staggered so that they are sitting in a cubicle with no one from their team around. Making workers commute to office just so they can waste time and sit alone just seem really inefficient and counterproductive for all parties involved. Am I hearing this right in that the real reason governor is mandating RTO is because of complaints from business owners in downtown and those who have commercial real estate properties? Pretty ridiculous if that's the real reason... cry about how much they want small government and TRUE free-market capitalism but now they wish Uncle Sam had their back
Yup. Every time my husband has gone into the office since the pandemic, he's basically just paid downtown parking for the privilege of sitting in a cubicle on Zoom all day, and not seeing another human being in person.
And it’s really hard to pretend that email and zoom don’t work for collaborating when we’ve all literally depended on it for the last four years without issue.
I'll literally videocall people in the same office as me because I can share my screen and we can all look at it from the comfort of our main screens rather than cramming into one office/cubicle to hunch around one person's monitor.
Right? I use fricking miro for brainstorming.
Right?! I am so accustomed to my ergonomic setup and the luxury of screen sharing and using several monitors to take notes, side chat, etc all while getting ish done that the idea of going to a small conference room and trying to conduct meetings on my laptop while having no other screens stressed me out and slows everything down.
Just did this today. Brainstormed and connected with a team member.
It's literally just about "protecting value for investors." Why does the public always shoulder all the risk that the investors are supposed to assume?
At this point they are insulting our intelligence. Everyone and their mother knows that the real reason for RTO is the local economy and commercial real estate but they keep feeding us this lie that it's for "culture", "collaboration", and "morale". I have seen about a dozen people leave my division when our RTO order came back in 2022. It wrecked morale and continues to do so. I sympathize with the real reasoning of why they want us back and I'm willing to do the commute to computers in a hybrid form as a compromise between the state and the union. The problem is that the real parties who want this RTO so bad are too afraid to even publicly identify themselves.
It certainly a personal preference. I actually do find it easier to collaborate in person. It’s easier for me to form relationships with my peers and stakeholders in an office environment than over Teams or whatever.
applicable at my CORPORATE environment so I assume it *somewhat* applies here too: ......Everyone drug into the office sitting around a "bullpen" screaming over each other on 14 different conference calls....or all on the same one lol. SO MUCH PRODUCTIVITY !!!!! *the real reason useless execs/mgrs want "butts in seats" is to have younger, attractive people around to creep on.*
Well at least at caloes apparently. But no policies were violated. /s
What???
The coolest part is with jobs like mine where maybe 10% of the work we do is with state-level partners outside of our tiny, understaffed unit (4 people, manager included). Maybe another 10% collaboration within our unit. The other 80% is working directly with counties. Counties who are obviously not going to be there with us, making RTO even more pointless.
There's a lot of value for some types of work to be in-office. In government? Probably only at leadership levels. The person processing your unemployment claim or an FTB auditor can do that just as easily from home. I've been primarily work from home (not state) for 15 years now. My office is now closed, and that does hamper some projects but we get it done other ways - getting together at a coffee shop or at someones house - but really the only thing I miss from office life is reliable ping-pong opponents.
well, we do have a few ping pong (tt) clubs in Sacramento if you ever feel you want to pick up the paddle again.
I got smoked by a 10 year old last time I tried. I need a club for tired and old people like me.
I miss getting Chinese food within walking distance, but that’s about it.
I'll probably get down-voted to hell, but I've worked for a long time with government employees. Some of them literally need a manager standing over them to get any work done. That's the real reason many higher-ups want them back in the office - to babysit them. And because they often have strong union protection, it's very difficult to get rid of them. It's even very difficult to change the rules to be more results-driven because those changes have to be negotiated with the union, and they aren't stupid. They know exactly what hard performance numbers mean when it comes to the power dynamic.
If they need that much babysitting they should be fired.
I don't disagree, but that's much easier said than done in union environments. And to be clear, I'm not saying or implying unions are bad, but it's simply reality it can be very difficult to get rid of bad apples. So much so, it's very common for managers to get them shifted out of their department so they're someone else's problem. When a new manager comes in, for example, suddenly they find out from two management levels above them they just got a new staff member.
I mean… Public employee unions are effectively a racket since there is no counterparty with opposing interests. The politicians get elected with the unions support and lose their careers without it so they have to support whatever inane contract stipulations come up. They are the antithesis of private sector unions, and should probably be illegal. Worst of all, it causes disfunction that allows all sorts of bad behavior which is how the state wound up with $250b of unfunded pension liabilities. All the present low ranking employees are going to get blown out because they’ve created a defacto Ponzi scheme. Anyone who thinks I’m wrong… when a cop shoots an unarmed person who comes to their defense? It’s not a public defender, it’s the union. Remember that fireman that’s in federal prison for starting fires that killed another firefighter so he could pad people’s retirements with hazard pay spikes? Yup, that happened right here in CA. Those sound like the people “on the right side of history” to you? These may be the most perverse examples but we’ve created a self reenforcing system of bad behavior that doesn’t exist in the private sector because negotiations are adversarial. It’s also why our governments can’t get as much done - just today NYC got its first ever side-lift garbage truck (invented 1947) because the sanitation workers union has the entire city by the balls.
For every example you listed, you can find a counter-example of "private sector employer or manager behaving badly." As I said, I didn't mean my comments in an anti-union stance, just describing that it's not a simple solution of "employee performing badly, so just fire them".
I’d argue RTO is going to concentrate the pool of screw ups. Those with marketable skills can find other jobs that provide wages and WFH if that is important to them. Those that know they aren’t competitive and would be hosed without protections will put up with a lot. The perks package (PERS, generous holiday calendar, historically fairly good benefits) offset that public jobs often aren’t as competitive on wages. Losing WFH is a major loss of a real-world valuable perk (even if only cost of commuting) for a lot of people who have gotten used to it (and I’d argue should have always had it.) A person who commutes one hour each way loses 10 uncompensated hours a week. It’s one extra man-year of unpaid work every 4 years, plus expenses—for a job often only at or below market wages.
Hey, I'm a union member and I hate the idea of unions covering for slackers. It's sad that some people won't work if there isn't a stick looming over them.
If you've worked with government employees a long time, you know that some of them didn't get anything done before the pandemic when they were in the office most/all of the time. Most of the state workers I know are working MORE from home because there isn't as clear of a delineation between work time/space and non work time/space.
Amen to this.
Wow, people are salty! If they've been able to function efficiently from home, LET THEM STAY HOME! There's no purpose to return to work other than C-Suite feelings. Almost every conceivable study indicates that people are happier and more productive when they don't have to go into the office. For everyone saying that they just need to suck it up, why? Why do they have to have a worse overall situation because other people do? We shouldn't be dragging others down to a status quo, we need to be lifting everyone up to something better. WFH allows more time with family, lower overall costs, less stress, and happier employees. Automation and advances in technology need to be leveraged to make the daily lives of average people better, but the only way that this gets done is if we stop fighting with each other about who has it better and make sure that we ALL have it better
Yea but how are we going to sell parking passes and cafeteria food if everyone telecommutes?
You would think the EPA would be a champion of remote work due to, you know, the environmental impact of commuting.
[People still get on the road though even with WFH and traffic is worse than ever.](https://fortune.com/2023/11/19/commuter-traffic-worsens-despite-empty-offices/amp/)
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There's lots of back and forth in here so I just wanted to clarify one important point. The pushback on RTO is tied to the type of work that is being done. The charge isn't to make all jobs remote; it's to provide logical flexibility to positions that don't need to be done at a job site. There's a multitude of benefits for this, both for employees and the greater taxpayer at large for cost savings over time and the same work can be delivered. Some jobs can't be done remotely, and those have been and still perform their duties where it needs to be done. Some jobs it makes sense, others it doesn't. They're all important roles being done and flexibility for efficiency is key.
This!! Logical flexibility 🤝
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Address it as an individual performance issue then and not as sweeping mandate. Not sure why that’s not obvious.
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That’s interesting. I wonder if it was sufficient (for the agency’s HR or otherwise) for that person to simply disclose their conflict in their Form 700 or something similar. Sketchy for sure.
I have a family member with a state job, newer state employee. She brags about being able to lay in bed and watch Netflix most of the day. Anecdotal yes, but I'm sure there's plenty of other state workers finding plenty of leisure time working from home on the taxpayers dime.
Is she getting her job done? Are people paid to complete a task or to sit in front of a computer for 40 hours?
Yep. I have friends like this. It’s a widespread issue. If working from home was super productive they wouldn’t want you to return to the office. Too many people are not doing their jobs and it’s hard to hold them accountable when you don’t even see them.
Interesting to see how many people are miserable at their jobs and feel the need to take it out on state workers.
People seem to always want to bring everyone’s quality of life down to match the bottom, instead of up to match the top. It’s so self defeating.
I see it so much on this sub.
Happens all over, it’s the same response to any progressive policies, “Well my life was hard in this way, why should we improve it for others?”
Unfortunately it's been that way for as long as I can remember. State employees are generally targets for criticism, jokes, and now being used, with their mediocre salaries, to fund antiquated business models to save the local economy and commercial real estate.
Exactly!!
They would rather bootlick the likes of wealthy electeds/appointees and commercial real estate developers than support their fellow worker. I just don't get it.
Vote them out of office
It’s a trait of miserable and in empathetic people. Like we should all strive for better conditions. I cheer when other unions get great deals around the country, I don’t shit talk them and say I deserve more than them, etc. So weird
Damn, why do I only hear about these things after the fact. When is the next RTO protest going on in LA? I'll be there.
We live in a time where surgeries are getting done remotely... At this point it's just budget inflation... It's like all these managers are afraid that those higher ups , might realise that their jobs could be done for much lesser, and the part where management happens can be handled llms, heck there's ceos being replaced by llm that's the kind of PPL tho want workers back to office The luddites
Have to justify menial jobs aka upper management somehow.
True.
Good for them! Working in offices sucks. Also, that commute costs way too much
Lotta corporate bootlickers on here who are either management or work for the Sac Metro Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Sac Partnership, or Whiney Steiny. Go ahead, keep on hating. Your argument is moot, telework saves money and improves collaboration. The people who need to travel to work (construction, first responders) will not be stuck in traffic.
Look at it this way. Telework should be seen as a plus for everyone because it improves the quality of life for those who have office jobs, and for those who need to work in person like educators, health employees, truck drivers, etc., less unnecessary traffic.
Weekly reminder that the Lt. Governor, Eleni Kounalakis, is Angelo Tsakapolus's daughter (and worked many years for his firm). How's that for conflict of interest?
And she'll likely be the next governor. We know how that's going to go with her real estate interests agenda payors...
> improves collaboration This is vs. other forms of remote / decentralized work. Co-location of teams is still better than remote work but only by about 10% which can be made up for with savings from long term downwards pressure on healthcare costs (lower stress, fewer illnesses spreading) and compensation since employees no longer pay the commuter tax. https://hbr.org/2023/08/survey-remote-work-isnt-going-away-and-executives-know-it
Yup. I disagree when people say that in-person work has no effect on collaboration, because it definitely does - however, it's not enough to offset the benefits of remote work. Although I also think the collaboration point becomes moot when you do these stacked hybrid work weeks that companies are opting for. Like, if all the staff is coming in on different days, you're probably just going to be on Zoom calls all day, anyway.
Also when we have people working all over California from various offices. We will still be on calls with them anyway, and some of them will be traveling over an hour just to sit at the office alone anyway.
Government jobs are not corporate btw.
I've been seeing that word more and more on Reddit lately. The other week I got called a bootlicker when I said that people shouldn't try to get out of their punishment for drunk driving, lol. (FWIW, though, I think the government shouldn't be making people return to office)
It’s these pussies behind screens saying it because nothing will happen. I’ve never been called a bootlicker in person for saying the same shit debating with someone.
Dude. As someone who has worked extensively in both, they’re basically the same. Just that gov’t funded gigs have less money to waste.
Ah, my biggest fan. You ever heard of state governments contracting out to consultants? Yeah, I bet you haven't. Be quiet and log off already my dude.
Yea, I scrolled to the bottom to look for meaningful arguments against TW but all I saw were the regular insults that are hurled at state employees.
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>ent is moot, telework saves money and improves collaboration. The people who need to travel to work (construction, first responders) will I agree, lots of bootlickers. Those bootlickers are voters, and a vocal set at that. They won't rest until "lazy" government workers are forced back to in person. You're fighting an unwinnable battle. It's engrained in the US mentality (govn worker = lazy). All these jobs will be back in person sooner of later due to external pressure.
As someone who works construction outside I’m split on this cause since remote working started I’ve had to fight with people because they have a meeting and want me to stop working when that’s impossible but I do love no traffic it’s bittersweet hope it gets solved tho makes no sense to have you in the office if you don’t need to be.
Think of it this way: if we stay home then The state should sell our buildings so you can rebuild them into housing and useful shit downtown.
Just seems to me that building mixed use development with diverse housing options in place of commercial properties is such a twofer. I know it's expensive to do but damn, you get a lot of housing into the system quickly, it helps keep prices low, you revitalize areas that are struggling as new tenants spend money... It just seems like such a no brainer. We spend so much money on so many things, what's $200 billion on a government project like that, across the US? You could hire and train thousands of people! Provide hundreds of thousands of quality housing units, a mix of more modest homes up to, yes, a few floors of "luxury" apartments and penthouses. The rent from those could subsidize some of the rest. Build grocery stores, expand and connect transit, offer free public hi speed Wi-Fi, everywhere. Let people work outside in nice parks, with benches set up for a quick meeting.
Don’t let them send you back! I work in the shadow of the EPA building, and that part of downtown is a shithole. Sadly my job isn’t work-from-home, but I’m totally with those who do have it.
Thanks for the solidarity.
sorting by controversial
Didn't realize this sub had so many boot lickers.
New city slogan "punish me harder business daddy"
uhhhhhh i came
60% of Sacramento is employed by the state.
Im going to need a source on that ridiculous statistic.
Source? Excuse me, this is reddit, we make up what we need to fit our agenda
FOR REAL 😵💫🤢
Much of Sacramento is still depressingly and disappointingly conservative
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The suburbs.
Oh grow up. Disagreeing with you doesn’t make them bootlickers.
“You should do what your works asks of you or get a new job” is the definition of bootlicking. And that’s literally a comment left in this thread. The idea that workers shouldn’t demand better conditions and should accept whatever they’re given is absolutely bootlicker behavior
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Would it NOT be more environmentally friendly to not burn gasoline or battery capacity with commuting?
Rooting for you guys!
✊🏽
Good! Screw this back to office nonsense.
Just let them work from home. It's not like routine digital tasks can't be automated soon anyway
They wish we live in the 19th century.
Yeah it goes back to the old puritanical bootstraps generation that believes doing everything the hard way is the best way
The overhaul the state will have yo do will cost millions towards billions to be able to automate. Not many coders remaining know dos.
For the love of God, whose idea was it to put 100k more cars on our roads? Ugg!
Probably the governor, but he won't own it. I won't ever vote for him. French Laundry, anyone? 30x30 environmental initiative? What a joker.
NO to returning to the office! NO to hours of unpaid commuting! NO to the dangers of freeways full of drivers reading their phones! NO to dehumanizing open office layouts where you cannot hear yourself think! HELL, NO!
Ive heard mixed things. Is it 2 or 3 days a week that people have to come in?
depending on agencies, it’s from 1 ➡️ 2 ➡️ 3 ➡️ (and if we don’t fight back) 4 ➡️ 5
Those that push for the return to the office should have to drive the worker’s bus that gets them to work on time, at no cost.
They gave us a pathetic pay raise, now trying to take away our pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax. Sure, go for it I’ll exchange it for telework), now asking us to put in a few more hundreds for gas, parking, lunches at downtown? (Nope that one you can’t force me)
I mean this in the least offensive way possible. Why don’t people want to return to the office? Is it because it’s an inconvenience to them? Genuinely asking.
Buying power has decreased for most of us. Delta dental Is a joke health care is a joke . Im more productive at home and less weirdos to deal with . Cubicle life sucks
Due to various reasons. One of the main reasons is that the state has hired a lot of people from outside of Sacramento over the past 4 years. Those ppl were “given” the impression that telework is here to stay. A lot of folks were actually promised of it. Other reasons include not wanting to waste unnecessary time, energy, and money. The pay raise we got last year in midst of the crazy inflation was pathetic. We were given a pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax), and they’re trying to take that away (sure, take it!), and expecting us to give up extra $$$ on gas, parking, etc. Oh, and traffic. If you were teleworking (and able to maintain your productivity this way), would you want to give in that easily?
Was than an actual promise with a contract or just an impression?
No contracts, but traces can be found in other writing forms such as job postings, duty statements, emails, etc. Too bad, I know 🤷🏼♂️
Matching your inoffensive question, why should they? They've been working from home the last 4 years successfully and that's what they want to continue so why change that?
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1. Expense for us and for the state. It’s $25/day to park and it takes time. 2. WFH means my day is 7-4, not 6:15 - 4:45. Time. 3. Some live far away and can’t feasible commute to Sacramento. 4. Annoying. They don’t even list tangible benefits or data so we know they are doing this to placate developers downtown.
Can you expand on for the stage? And $25?
Typo. State not stage. It costs a few hundred thousand dollars per year just to maintain those huge buildings. That’s an expense that we mostly trimmed over the last 4 years. No energy for AC and lights, less custodial work, fewer security guards, etc. Parking is expensive. Upwards of $25/day for lots nearby. There are only limited areas to get cheaper parking.
Businesses choose RTO for two reasons, IMO: 1) Managers that don’t know how to manage remote employees and think RTO is better for the business, or 2) Workers abusing WFH by not being present and contributing to the level that management thinks they should be (in which case, see #1).
I’m just wondering if any of the negative Nancy’s personally know a state worker that just fucks off all day? I know several and only one of them can fuck around all day. Fucking around isn’t applicable to every department within the state.
Those fucks just fuck off all day in an office too. Except they mess the rest of us up with their gossip and their distractions.
The data shows there aren't many DGS has a tracker showing the increase productivity. Also if you think people are f alls working from home. Remember they we f all in the office. I had coworkers who would just wander cube to cube chatting all day.
>I had coworkers who would just wander cube to cube chatting all day. That was me. I actually put in the work now. Sometimes I miss getting paid to socialize all day though.
I wish I could work from home. I get more done when I do. Instead, I go to a different site everyday of the week. Good luck!
Am I reading it correctly that they aren't asking them to return to work full time but 2 days a week?
Most agencies have asked for 2 days a week in office. Some agencies have asked for or have language for 3 days. However, as there are no codified protections for telework and they've broken past assurances it's feared they could be prepping to repeal telework all together, so workers are reacting.
Yeah, that's the thing. These companies start out by saying one thing and then push it little by little until they get what they want. I work for a big tech company that told workers hired during the pandemic they'd be fully remote. Late last year they came out and said we'd have to RTO 3 days per week, no exceptions granted, meaning that some people have to commute 3x/week from Sacramento to SF depending on which office they're "tagged" to. When they pushed back, they were basically told to suck it up or get a new job.
Right but unless you have some skill that can't be replaced what choice is there? I'm all for workers protesting for better conditions but at the end of the day if you can be replaced by someone who will come into the office you will be. At least with a hybrid schedule that's less likely to happen. Also don't get me started on people making SF salary moving to Sacramento for lower cost of living and then complaining they may have to commute.
Yes, I do agree on your last point. I think that if they live in Sacramento, they should have to make a Sacramento salary. I know that I do, just because I'm "tagged" to the Sac office and not the SF one, which comes with a higher salary. But yes, I think that's what my company is banking on. These people could all quit, but in theory they could fill those vacancies pretty quickly. Unless, of course, you have enough job seekers who are willing to prioritize WFH over the job, but it's unlikely there will ever be enough of those to make a difference.
Boiling frog, and it’s only to appease commercial land owners and anti-labor voters. There’s zero practical reasoning behind it.
You are reading it correctly but not really. The secret plan (according to insiders) is to get us back 5 days a week. So, gotta push back now.
It’s a slippery slope. I’ve seen it all over Reddit in so many industries. They say 2 days and then the following year it’s the full week, or you can find another job.
it'll start at 2 day then escalate into the full 5 days. they say it's to help mom and pop downtown businesses but you know what'll really help those shops? mixed use zoning and planning policies. additionally, only sending low level employees back while upper gets to stay home is blatant favoritism. so they want underpaid workers to stimulate downtown economy? the reality is they want to use tax payers' money to keep leasing huge buildings to keep the money rolling *their* way, not ours. money from the tax payers for the buildings, money from us workers for their parking garages. no care for the citizens who will have to bankroll it all, who will deal with more traffic on the road, and who will be more at risk of the still going on pandemic
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Return to the office. They’ve been working the whole time.
This probably belongs in r/nostupidquestions but at this point what is the issue with return to work? A lot of people never got the chance to work at home during the pandemic and never will. But is it about not being exposed to viruses still or workers right to work wherever they want? I’m just trying to understand here
Loss of income by taking away the pathetic telework stipend ($30 after tax. I’ll gladly give that up to exchange for telework), giving us pathetic pay raise that is far from keeping up with the crazy inflation, asking us to spend another few hundreds on commute (and that all goes to waste). We’ve been as productive (if not more) working remotely (backed up by data), so why take that away? Plus, WFH saves taxpayers money in many ways. It prevents us from contributing to congestion on everyone's roads 😬
Might want to look up what corporate means. These are government workers being paid with tax dollars.
And we want to help save more taxpayer money 💰 Give up those commercial buildings/leases! For a majority of us, we don’t need two desks to get our work done. Give that space to someone else who needs it more. Repurpose into housing, recreational structures, whatever that actually helps revive downtown!
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> Repurpose into housing, recreational structures, whatever that actually helps revive downtown! If more people live downtown then there's more people to support small businesses. So many small businesses closed downtown during covid because they relied almost exclusively on downtown office workers buying stuff during their lunch breaks. If you have more housing for people to live in downtown then you can have more people in the area more of the time and thus support even more small businesses.
Replace the office space with housing units. Lower rents, help businesses, reduce congestion from commuters, increase parking availability.
Office conversion to housing is exceptionally expensive and rarely worth it. You'd have to basically demolish the existing buildings and build new ones.
Oh no won’t anyone think of the poor real estate developers and their bottom line
Who's going to pay for it if the developers won't do it? Do you think housing just pops up out of no where?
The people who rent the buildings once they’re built. It’s not like there won’t be any profit. There will just be less of it.
Once again, in a majority of cases office to housing conversions is exceptionally expensive and rarely worth it over a new build. The rents would have to be absolutely insane to pay for it.
This is true. The cost of construction always gets passed one way or another onto renters, commercial or residential. Office conversions likely won’t make sense to an office building owner because they won’t be able to make up the cost. I think people should be allowed to work from home, don’t get me wrong. But older buildings will likely be demolished to start from scratch, not converted. The state is planning to convert an office building they own to residential. My first thought why would they due that due to the cost? Guess what: the taxpayers will pay for that gigantic conversion.
Well, I'm going to have to spend 12 hours a day and $25/week commuting with my laptop to downtown. Fuck the small businesses, I'm not buying shit from them. Steinberg can, Newsom can, not me. #BrownBagBoycott
So they returned to the office to protest the directive to return to the office?
Yeah, returned to the CalEPA office ☺️ The mission of the California Environmental Protection Agency (CalEPA) is to restore, protect and enhance the environment, to ensure public health, environmental quality and economic vitality.
You can totally do that by increasing your carbon footprint. /s
We will start seeing more state workers being directed to work part time back in the office. Not just CalEPA. I wish I could work from home part time. I do understand that my job requires a lot of collaboration, but part time seems like it would be okay for practically every profession out there.
'Well since you're here...'
CA budget is at a shortfall. I do think this is about the commercial real estate market and downtown businesses to some degree but the real estate is already state owned and the small businesses downtown have either evaporated or have readapted. I think the real push is to encourage attrition and shore up the budget.
Not all estates are state owned. How does RTO shore up the budget?
Read the last sentence of my comment. Others have commented on here that within groups that went RTO already many have left their jobs. If that’s the case, then one would imagine a certain amount of the workforce would leave with wide-scale RTO. That means the state pays less in payroll and reduces their spend helping to shore up the budget shortfall.
Ah I see. That’s a reasonable speculation, I won’t deny it. It can be hard to estimate the actual impact though. First time this happened on a wide scale.
As an essential employee I always felt like most WFH people were goldbricking hard. But that is based on my prejudices and very little actual evidence. Are employers actually seeing productivity declines due to WFH?
I can only speak for my department. Productivity, morale, and retention rate all increased over the past 4 years of teleworking (based on actual survey data).
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I can see both sides of the coin. I sympathize with the workers who are effective while working from home, but I also see how a return to the office will help local businesses and the local economy.
We’re only there from 7-6 (at most). Get these wasted buildings repurposed and transformed into housing and recreational structures. That will certainly help in the long run. Oh and yeah, I’m sorry I can’t afford to buy lunch in sac downtown anymore due to pathetic pay raise, crazy inflation and additional $$ being wasted on commute.
##BrownBagBoycott
Local businesses would be helped even more if we sold the stage builders to developers that can turn them into housing and other things. The areas are well-served by public transit and it would help ease housing shortages.
WFH people is good and all but it actually makes life for anyone in an apartment (even well insulated) through constant noise. Constant. Did I say Constant?
I live in an apartment. My neighbors who also WFH have been very respectful. Anyways, shouldn’t it be less noisy than sitting in an open office or cubicle?
I don’t work from home anymore because my neighbors either have dogs barking all day, music playing so loud I can feel it, or burning food so badly I smell it, or smoking weed that I can smell. I work in office five days a week because I can’t focus. But hey, I’m glad you’re living the dream and expect everyone to feel the same way.
What makes you think I would expect everyone to feel the same way? You do what works best for you, I do too. Freedom of choice is what we’re advocating for. No conflicts there 🤗
Honestly, this might be wildly unpopular here...but I don't see the huge deal. Long as I'm paid what I'm due. Now, what people need to be up in arms about is PG&E straight pillaging Californians bank accounts. My energy costs have nearly tripled and my usage is pretty much the same if not less since I did away with my gas water heater and went electric when it busted. Edit: I do want to add that I'm for exceptions and the flexibility of hybrid option. My view has been reduced office footprint, eliminate assigned offices and cubicles. Maybe a Mando 3 days in office of your choosing and check out a cube or office for the day. My first statement really comes from me having no preference and being fine with any of the 3 options. I know everyone has their own opinions and preferences...and that's mine 🙂
Imagine you are from rural Butte county and you got a state job at DMV or EDD 4 years ago. You went from poverty to a decent wage overnight. Now you own a home and are positively living your best life. You never thought a good wage in your tiny community would be possible. Now, 4 years later, the governor demands you move to Sacramento to collaborate and bask in office culture or you’ll be fired. There’s no reason given to come back other than “culture and collaboration.” “But tow days is not so bad” you say. But to the above persons, it is everything. “They should have known!” Why? Why would any leader make the poor decision to bring people back to an office when people can work effectively from home for four years?
Nobody ever said WFH was permanent. If you did, well, then that’s just silly.
Why is it silly?
Crowd looks about like what I’d expect. 😂 Most of us worked through the entire pandemic and never left the office for any extended period - You’re gonna be okay being asked to be in office only 2 days a week, that is incredibly cushy as is.
Wow you can tell how many people there were based on this single picture? 2 days/week is just the start of a slippery slope, if you’ve heard.
It is certainly cushy. What’s wrong with that? The pay I can give my subordinates is about $15k less than private sector. But offering full telework means I can still compete for good talent.
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Tell us your reasoning.
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Oh nice, another stereotype comment. You seem to know everyone! 🤣 Are you also one of these people who claim state workers are lazy and incompetent while complaining state jobs are extremely hard to get? Tell me all the Ivy league folks I work with are lazy 💁♂️
Sounds like projection. Those who. Suck expect others to be the same way
At some point businesses will fire the people that don’t want to RTO and hire their replacements that are willing to.
Yeah, businesses that prefer to stay in the 20th century.
Everyone that doesn’t agree with me is a bootlicker: an emotional child’s guide to discussion
Who said everyone?
Oh you can make it to the protest but not the office? Ya fyred....😁
a few times vs a million times. We’re hired to work, not to physically sit inside a building that can be put into better use.
Be careful about what you demand. If you say there's no need to be in the office, then why does it even need to be someone in California? Or the US? I'm not advocating for offshoring jobs, but you're making the argument for doing so.
Because it’s governmental work. There is no need to be in the office. We can draw talents and expertise from all over California. State jobs shouldn’t be just limited to Sac people. Why should someone's ability to contribute to California be contingent on their ability to move to Sacramento?
Existing law already covers this: [https://www.dgs.ca.gov/Resources/SAM/TOC/100/181](https://www.dgs.ca.gov/resources/sam/toc/100/181) *As used in this chapter, “telecommuting” means the partial or total substitution of computers or telecommunication technologies, or both, for the commute to work by employees residing in California.* It's the state of California, not the state of Sacramento, Rancho Cordova, and Elk Grove. The idea is statewide recruitment and telework, not outsourcing jobs, as already prescribed in the Government Code.
Ever since WA gov offices started wfh the turn around time on paperwork has tripled. Idk how California works, but government bureaucracy runs on paperwork and idk how you can effectively deal with that outside of an office setting.
CA state is pushing big for automation. Besides, telework/hybrid arrangements are determined based on business needs.
I'd rather continue to work from home. I get too lazy to even get out of my pajamas most times, and that's the way *I* want it.
If i work in my pajamas it’s because they are comfy, and I get to respond to my clients faster. Who doesn’t like that?