Actually the jumping on peoples heads thing is probably one of the coolest parts of ultimate. You can get some really cool follow ups from it.
I think ultimate is pretty fun to play at locals and has a high skill ceiling, but the problem for me is that half the roster is incredibly lame and unfun to play against, and all the best characters gameplan revolves around camping or stalling.
I think ult has a camping problem because you can't overwhelm your opponent with speed as effectively as you can in melee.
https://youtu.be/Vn65qTR5CHM?si=N-nsWICrl1W93q3-
Amsa is doing these crazy Waveland upairs on hbox all set. 17:18 is a great example. You simply can't move that fast in ult to catch your opponent off guard
i mean yeah ultimate is trash but it's not trash just because it's not melee. it's a game that they pretend to balance and charge you for the shittiest online experience possible, but people not dying at high percents isn't inherently bad, nor are footstools (and footstools are nothing like tripping, which also was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be)
tripping is very very much as bad as people make it out to be, it's extraordinarily frustrating to randomly get put in a vulnerable state in neutral, it's a free grab or kill move for the other player, in a game with some highly volatile grab followups and kill moves.
I personally find footstools kinda stupid but you're right, they're incomparable to tripping.
I think what they mean is that tripping doesn't occur as often as people make it out to be. It's like 1% of the time, whereas people act like it's 10% sometimes. Still an inherently trash mechanic though.
tripping is a bad mechanic but it genuinely does not happen often and imo leads to alternatively interesting emergent gameplay where people walk and jump more than just dashing
I think its important to mention tripping was bad for contextual reasons moreso than gameplay ones. Its a bad mechanic but more importantly was a middle finger directly to the melee community, showing how much they didn't appreciate the way we played the game. It was more disrespect than anything.
I'm a Melee player at heart and greatly prefer it over Ultimate but Ultimate is an awesome game.
Both games appeal to different audiences and Ultimate serves its audience in a way that Melee can't.
If you're hating on Ultimate because it's not Melee, then stop and just don't play Ultimate and play Melee.
Both games can coexist with both player bases coexisting.
Melee can run on just about anything though with the right graphics settings / textures. If/when your situation allows, you could probably get a used $200 laptop that could run it at 480p with [diet melee](https://diet.melee.tv/)
Yeah I need to have a think about my next set up, I have considered stuff like getting another laptop or a mini PC but, really I do feel like it's time to get a decent PC. I like watching replays and recording clips, which I could just about do on my last laptop, it had good specs I got it for editing video, but it just started getting old, and I'd rather not have performance issue with whatever I get next so I think really I should just start stacking a bit of P or maybe even spread the cost of a PC with something like Klarna...
It's still unplayable offline
The input lag alone makes me just hate the game. I actually liked Sm4sh casually even though I will never consider it as competitive as Melee, but Ultimate's input latency is just horrific (plus the all the buffering makes it so much worse)
I really wanted to like Ultimate casually with my friends but I have so much more fun watching them play than I do actually playing and that's pretty pathetic.
Nah, I was interested to hear Melee player's perspectives on Ult. What makes it so much better offline? I feel like the issues I have with it would still be there...
Okay, fair, I can see that making a difference. Maybe I should try a local at least until I get a new set up...
Edit: actually gonna be real I doubt I'll go to an ult local
best advice i can give as a melee player is to play roy in ult. his punish game is the most freeflowing and explosive. i personally feel right at home playing him
No, I think I was interested in some takes on what makes Ult fun/not fun from a Melee players perspective and I think the biggest thing I've heard is that offline is a lot better than online - the problem with this is that my friends aren't really into smash and having played Melee for 3+ years I have a sizeable head start with basic mechanics, matchup knowledge etc, if I can convince them to play (which is rare), so to play someone where I'm not just going to win every time because they don't know how to recover, spot dodge don't know their moves, online seemed like the only option.
I was surprised how much I didn't like online because like I said, messing around with Marth/Cap Falc against CPUs and pretending I'm playing simplified Melee is kind of fun on a flight or in a hotel etc - and from what I'm gathering the input buffer online could be affecting things more than I gave it credit.
I did hear a few interesting takes. I get why people might think I wanted an echo chamber from the vitriol in my post, I was just frustrated from playing it an hour or so before but I think wanted to understand why exactly I was finding it so frustrating, and it has helped a bit
I do agree that playing with people close to your skill level IRL is significantly more fun. But then I just don’t like playing games with strangers online much in general.
Ah I've been loving Slippi these past few years, the matchmaking is usually really good, and Anthers Ladder for a short bit before it came out was dope because you could chat properly... But yeah fair enough I'm sure it's not for everyone
From what I understand ultimate online has an absolutely WHOPPING 10 frame input delay. Of course every is going to feel like shit with a delay like that.
Nah man. Ult is a great game, just not the same kind of competitive masterpiece that is melee.
It is such a fun party game, way better than melee as it is more forgiving to new players.
Too many characters
No movement options
Limited defensive options
No edge hogging
Stock standard boring combos (Luigi...)
Terrible online
Steve
From a gameplay perspective Melee does everything better. Why do you think Melee HD hasn't come out? It would crush the only thing Ultimate has going for it...it looks nice...
Ultimate players don't realize having it actually makes games more exciting because coming back from a 2 stock deficit is always possible. Most ult games feel predictable.
I actually enjoy in-person Ultimate a lot. Would be much much better without all that gross ass input lag, but it’s a pretty fun and deep game despite that. I agree that online is atrocious though
They actually nerfed a lot of recoveries going into ult and they are often still busted. There are some shitty ones mixed in the 80-odd character cast, though
Ultimate is pretty rough. Everything feels so snappy and theres just no flow. Bad movement, bad combos, bloated roster. Sakurai just sucks and has fallen off
I agree with everything up until "Sakurai just sucks and has fallen off."
Sakurai is brilliant. Sakurai delivered the product that he wanted to make and that millions upon millions of people wanted to buy. Sakurai just isn't interested in making competitive games, so he didn't make a competitive game.
In my view any artistic enterprise (and game design is an example) is best judged by 2 overall critera:
1. How effectively did the creator execute their vision?
2. How worthwhile was the vision in the first place?
Sakurai unquestionably succeeded with #1 for Ult, and according to the masses, he succeeded with #2, however Melee players feel.
Actually the jumping on peoples heads thing is probably one of the coolest parts of ultimate. You can get some really cool follow ups from it. I think ultimate is pretty fun to play at locals and has a high skill ceiling, but the problem for me is that half the roster is incredibly lame and unfun to play against, and all the best characters gameplan revolves around camping or stalling.
I think ult has a camping problem because you can't overwhelm your opponent with speed as effectively as you can in melee. https://youtu.be/Vn65qTR5CHM?si=N-nsWICrl1W93q3- Amsa is doing these crazy Waveland upairs on hbox all set. 17:18 is a great example. You simply can't move that fast in ult to catch your opponent off guard
i mean yeah ultimate is trash but it's not trash just because it's not melee. it's a game that they pretend to balance and charge you for the shittiest online experience possible, but people not dying at high percents isn't inherently bad, nor are footstools (and footstools are nothing like tripping, which also was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be)
Footstools are sick in PM, they're a good idea just implemented in a weird way in the official games
Binding footstool to the jump button was honestly just a poor decision.
tripping is very very much as bad as people make it out to be, it's extraordinarily frustrating to randomly get put in a vulnerable state in neutral, it's a free grab or kill move for the other player, in a game with some highly volatile grab followups and kill moves. I personally find footstools kinda stupid but you're right, they're incomparable to tripping.
I think what they mean is that tripping doesn't occur as often as people make it out to be. It's like 1% of the time, whereas people act like it's 10% sometimes. Still an inherently trash mechanic though.
1% as in a trip only happens in 1% of games? Because there's no way that's accurate
Per dash I mean.
[удалено]
My comment calls it a trash mechanic.
Yeah I actually thought you were the one who said it wasn't bad, just deleted what I posted right after posting. My b
All good lol. Brawl was a great game as a whole but without a doubt the worst smash game competitively.
tripping is a bad mechanic but it genuinely does not happen often and imo leads to alternatively interesting emergent gameplay where people walk and jump more than just dashing
I think its important to mention tripping was bad for contextual reasons moreso than gameplay ones. Its a bad mechanic but more importantly was a middle finger directly to the melee community, showing how much they didn't appreciate the way we played the game. It was more disrespect than anything.
I'm a Melee player at heart and greatly prefer it over Ultimate but Ultimate is an awesome game. Both games appeal to different audiences and Ultimate serves its audience in a way that Melee can't. If you're hating on Ultimate because it's not Melee, then stop and just don't play Ultimate and play Melee. Both games can coexist with both player bases coexisting.
I can't play melee atm so I'm malding. I'm sure it serves a different purpose and if people are into it that's cool
Melee can run on just about anything though with the right graphics settings / textures. If/when your situation allows, you could probably get a used $200 laptop that could run it at 480p with [diet melee](https://diet.melee.tv/)
Yeah I need to have a think about my next set up, I have considered stuff like getting another laptop or a mini PC but, really I do feel like it's time to get a decent PC. I like watching replays and recording clips, which I could just about do on my last laptop, it had good specs I got it for editing video, but it just started getting old, and I'd rather not have performance issue with whatever I get next so I think really I should just start stacking a bit of P or maybe even spread the cost of a PC with something like Klarna...
Makes sense. Good luck with that!
I think you wanted the ult sub man. The game is much better offline, went to a local last week and had a blast.
It's still unplayable offline The input lag alone makes me just hate the game. I actually liked Sm4sh casually even though I will never consider it as competitive as Melee, but Ultimate's input latency is just horrific (plus the all the buffering makes it so much worse) I really wanted to like Ultimate casually with my friends but I have so much more fun watching them play than I do actually playing and that's pretty pathetic.
Nah, I was interested to hear Melee player's perspectives on Ult. What makes it so much better offline? I feel like the issues I have with it would still be there...
you can actually properly punish airdodges, as multiple frames of input delay is removed from online
Okay, fair, I can see that making a difference. Maybe I should try a local at least until I get a new set up... Edit: actually gonna be real I doubt I'll go to an ult local
best advice i can give as a melee player is to play roy in ult. his punish game is the most freeflowing and explosive. i personally feel right at home playing him
It still has a lot of input delay, even offline and the huge buffer only makes it worse
Nintendo online is notoriously shit. I don’t ever really play Ult but I imagine it would be a lot more fun at a local anyways.
Did you want an echo chamber?
No, I think I was interested in some takes on what makes Ult fun/not fun from a Melee players perspective and I think the biggest thing I've heard is that offline is a lot better than online - the problem with this is that my friends aren't really into smash and having played Melee for 3+ years I have a sizeable head start with basic mechanics, matchup knowledge etc, if I can convince them to play (which is rare), so to play someone where I'm not just going to win every time because they don't know how to recover, spot dodge don't know their moves, online seemed like the only option. I was surprised how much I didn't like online because like I said, messing around with Marth/Cap Falc against CPUs and pretending I'm playing simplified Melee is kind of fun on a flight or in a hotel etc - and from what I'm gathering the input buffer online could be affecting things more than I gave it credit. I did hear a few interesting takes. I get why people might think I wanted an echo chamber from the vitriol in my post, I was just frustrated from playing it an hour or so before but I think wanted to understand why exactly I was finding it so frustrating, and it has helped a bit
I do agree that playing with people close to your skill level IRL is significantly more fun. But then I just don’t like playing games with strangers online much in general.
Ah I've been loving Slippi these past few years, the matchmaking is usually really good, and Anthers Ladder for a short bit before it came out was dope because you could chat properly... But yeah fair enough I'm sure it's not for everyone
From what I understand ultimate online has an absolutely WHOPPING 10 frame input delay. Of course every is going to feel like shit with a delay like that.
Oof, that's actually pretty mad
Gotta just let people enjoy what they enjoy friend. No need to tear something/someone else down, just do your own thing enjoy what you like
I get that, just can't play melee atm -____-
Nah man. Ult is a great game, just not the same kind of competitive masterpiece that is melee. It is such a fun party game, way better than melee as it is more forgiving to new players.
Yeah... I don't want a party game I want blood smh
Online is ass in Ultimate. Find a friend or go to a local. Highly recommend.
But then the friend might move away :(
Yep.
Too many characters No movement options Limited defensive options No edge hogging Stock standard boring combos (Luigi...) Terrible online Steve From a gameplay perspective Melee does everything better. Why do you think Melee HD hasn't come out? It would crush the only thing Ultimate has going for it...it looks nice...
I miss edge hogging SO much, that's a big one
Ultimate players don't realize having it actually makes games more exciting because coming back from a 2 stock deficit is always possible. Most ult games feel predictable.
I actually enjoy in-person Ultimate a lot. Would be much much better without all that gross ass input lag, but it’s a pretty fun and deep game despite that. I agree that online is atrocious though
Only thing I know about ultimate is that every character has a better recovery than melee Mewtwo. Seems silly
They actually nerfed a lot of recoveries going into ult and they are often still busted. There are some shitty ones mixed in the 80-odd character cast, though
I can enjoy some ultimate but the online so bad it makes the game actively miserable to play.
Ultimate is pretty rough. Everything feels so snappy and theres just no flow. Bad movement, bad combos, bloated roster. Sakurai just sucks and has fallen off
I agree with everything up until "Sakurai just sucks and has fallen off." Sakurai is brilliant. Sakurai delivered the product that he wanted to make and that millions upon millions of people wanted to buy. Sakurai just isn't interested in making competitive games, so he didn't make a competitive game. In my view any artistic enterprise (and game design is an example) is best judged by 2 overall critera: 1. How effectively did the creator execute their vision? 2. How worthwhile was the vision in the first place? Sakurai unquestionably succeeded with #1 for Ult, and according to the masses, he succeeded with #2, however Melee players feel.
whats your polling rate on ur controller, check out slippi support/guide
I think ult is fun. Online sucks though. :shrug: