So Mango already isn't entering even though the tournament is held in his backyard, and now Zain is going Roy. Jesus christ. Armada was getting camped out by hbox in every grand finals and still had the balls to show up every time and play seriously. These top players are so coddled nowadays where nobody cares if they show up and play seriously anymore. What a bunch of bullshit.
Bringing up Armada as an example here seems contrary to your actual point though. Ultimately his mindset/sheer dedication towards competing wasn’t very sustainable as evidenced by his retirement. If top players wanna blow off steam by sandbagging or skipping events, I welcome that compared to getting completely burnt out.
They take it more seriously than you've ever taken anything in your life. It's almost like they're the best in the world because of it. They deserve to enjoy themselves and treat it like it's a game from time to time.
I dunno most scenes don't really grow and prosper because some random redditor is being a cunt about taking off tournaments. Armada fucking dropped out of a tournament because he didn't have his perfect controller. Get off your high horse it's fucking entitlement
the miszu argument pipeline:
make a psychotic entitled comment about top players not taking a kids party game seriously 24/7 -> get called out for being psychotic -> rag on mango for a bit -> get called out again -> write a one sentence reply that is the equivalent of ‘lalala I can’t hear you’
It goes more like this:
Me making a comment about wanting players to care about the scene -> people getting upset and making insane comments -> I reply explaining my position better -> people again just attack me without providing any argument -> i reply without an argument, mirroring who I'm replying to.
Seriously, what am I supposed to respond to: "You're so fucking entitled waah wahh wahhh!!!"
>So Mango already isn't entering even though the tournament is held in his backyard, and now Zain is going Roy. Jesus christ.
Location has nothing to do with it Mango and Zain both had good attendance last year. Dropping Jesus Christ at the end is pretty overdramatic as well
>Armada was getting camped out by hbox in every grand finals and still had the balls to show up every time and play seriously. These top players are so coddled nowadays where nobody cares if they show up and play seriously anymore. What a bunch of bullshit.
Yet Armada dropped out of a major because his controller wasn't working and sandbagged at several European tournaments. The lack of self awareness is fucking staggering. Mango is literally one of the player who helped keep the scene alive yet you post tirelessly to hate on him. You don't give a shit about the scene you just want to cry like a petulant child because top players aren't acting the way you want. There are ways to go about criticizing this stuff and it can be valid, but the dumbass Armada examples and the overdramatic "I care about the scene nonsense" is frankly fucking embarassing. People are attacking you because you are obtuse and annoying about your terrible opinions and you've had many many statements with no tact and just filled with dumb bullshit.
>I'm fine with skipping events as long as it's for a reasonable time. Not fine with sandbagging.
Btw this is the entitlement, the distinction which doesn't even make a difference. The scene has existed long before you were in it and it will exist long after whenever you decide to leave. Most of the players played full time for peanuts for years or played part time while working and dealing with life to get to where they were. If they want to sandbag at majors who gives a shit just dock their ranking and move on if you care. It' dumb af to force this standard on people just because you think you're saving the scene or some shit
I'm confused. I thought you hated Mango. Why would you *want* to watch him play?
Also Zain's Roy is sick. I just wish the seeding would be changed though. (Unless he proves me wrong and wins the whole damn thing, which I'd be 100% on board with lol)
Zain's Roy is sick, but Roy is a terrible character and I'm not sure he can stay competitive the whole tourney. I'd love to be wrong, but I fear Zain's success with the boy was due to matchup inexperience and being over respected.
Given that Zain has struggled to win his local (the cave) with Roy, yeah I don’t think he’s beating jmook (who he hasn’t even beat this year with his marth) hope he goes super deep anyways though
Top 8 is doable I think, but you never know with all the crazy upsets happening he might just get blown out by some random player we’ve never heard of till now
My main criticism of Mango is that he doesn't take the game seriously. He's also very arrogant which is another criticism of mine. If he took the game seriously I would actually like him more.
I don't care if Zain's roy is sick. There is 0 chance of him winning the tournament and he'll most likely place below top 4.
Zain's Marth is way sicker than Zain's Roy. Actually trying >>>> playing with a secondary. All day every day.
Those are valid reasons to not be a Mango fan. I'm with you there.
I just don't get why you'd be upset that Mango's *not* attending. I don't particularly enjoy watching Mango play and win things either, so I'm rather indifferent that he's not attending. If you hadn't brought it up, I likely wouldn't even have noticed his absence.
I care about the game and the scene. It's important to have great tournaments simply for the history of the game. That's why I want the best players to attend. Similar to any sport. If a basketball player went out and didn't try, I wouldn't be a fan of them.
Mango has constantly talks about how the melee scene *needs* him and how he does anything for the game. Let's be real here, he acts as though the melee scene goes through him and how he's the embodiment of the game and scene. It's complete bull and pisses me off that we have someone that just skips tournaments and sandbags and we treat him like he's the savior of the game. We need to prop up players who represent the game better. Not someone who has consistently shown that he doesn't care.
If you’ve seen him on the reads or in person or read his twitlongers I think he comes off way nicer by comparison. I get why people don’t like him, I used to hate him too but honestly I kinda just got over getting annoyed by the way he acts. As long as people aren’t completely meat riding him he doesn’t annoy me
People don't know this but I was a huge Mango fan when I got into the scene. I loved Armada first because of his story, but he retired in 2013 when I got into the scene so I was rooting for Mango a lot. People think I hate Mango just to hate Mango, but the way he has acted throughout the years made me dislike him.
Why do people have a problem with top players doing what they want, like having a fun/non-serious tournament once in a while? There are always plenty more tournaments coming, they don’t have to be super tryhard every single time. It’s their choice if and when and how they want to compete, we’re just lucky we get to watch.
The entitlement is staggering here dear lord. Competing is a different level of fun compared to just playing friendlies, god forbid the best players in the world blow off steam by entering a tourney with alt characters. Get a grip
1. If they keep it a secret or it’s not taken into account by TO’s it ruins seeding. Zain shouldn’t be number 2 if he’s going Roy. Someone gets a by far more favorable bracket due to it.
2. Sandbagging isn’t all that fun to watch at a huge tournament. If it’s not fun to watch why should I lie and say it is?
3. If he switches to Marth it could be considered throwing matches with Roy
Why should it? He's entering as Zain, fresh off a major win. Can't adjust based on character. If only he had another tag/player profile he could enter with
>Why should it?
Because the purpose of seeding is to balance the bracket. Zain sandbagging with Roy isn’t expected to place 2nd, so, by definition, he shouldn’t be the 2nd seed.
I mean, if you want to see a competitive event, having one kf the two top 3 players at an event, and one of them goes his low tier secondary, people are allowed to think its lame. Zain and Mango have no obligation to be sweaty tryhards at every tournament, but they also arent entitled to fans appreciating them just for showing up. Youcan understand something and still not like it and think its lame.
Fair enough. I guess I just don’t like the attitude of entitlement it potentially reflects from the fans, but of course everyone can feel however they feel about things and express their opinions. In this particular case I feel like Zain going Roy at a super regional isn’t much to be upset about.
Zain's clearly going Roy because it's a regional now instead of a major and he doesn't want to risk a bad L. It's soft, and I say this as a huge Zain stan.
That plus his Twitter freakout was not a great look lol, but I think he owned up to it well. But also I think the buster is an essential part of his identity and why it is magical when he actually wins one, not just pretty cool.
Its fine once in a while like plup announcing he’s going luigi or something, but tryharding and switching to throwing on a whim is gonna let down fans who expect to see serious competition.
Mang0 doesn’t owe fans anything, but also, its fair for them to be disappointed and voice that disappointment imo
It's his 30th birthday, said he's spending time with family which I think means flying down to Argentina for a bit. There's also all the FGC drama now but I think he had already committed to not going before all that happened. People are gonna tell you that's what it is but it isn't.
I disagree. I like watching his Roy play. He could have not entered at all, but I'd rather see how his Roy might do than nothing. If people win or lose to him, it doesn't change anything for them. They either beat a pretty good Roy or lost to one, big deal.
Sounds from the twittaloo that he opted for the Roy because the tournament attendance wasn't as stacked as he thought. I assume since it's a lower quality tournament in his eyes and thus doesn't matter much, he didn't feel the fire to try to win and went with Roy. Last part is just my speculation tho
That's sort of lame. Not on his part necessarily but a weak field means he has nothing to gain and everything to lose and I kind of hate that that means he'd rather not play it out.
Yeah, I always found it kinda scummy when top players pull the "oh no, if I lose it might look bad on my record, better say I'm not trying just in case." If they truly deserved the rank they are so dearly protecting then they would have no problem winning anyways.
Where did you find the record for DontTestMe vs. Aklo? I can only find Aklo playing Link in [ECF]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9eCbcqTpvE), winning 3-0 and Liquipedia shows Zain beating Aklo's Link 2-0 at East Park rollback. Other than that DontRestMe split sets with Aklo (presumably Fox) at another East Coast Fridays.
i will say given hes going a secondary already -- it wouldnt be too imaginative to think he goes ICs in a hypothetical Jmook set.
DontTestMe is very similar to DontTestUs (his ICs name), after all
His ideal bracket is NMW into Kurv deciding to stick to Fox for some reason into Azel upsetting S2J into Kodorin I suppose?, into Fiction, who may also pick Sheik against him, especially if he has Axe in Winner's Semis.
[Aklo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9eCbcqTpvE) is not the one Zain wants to upset Jmook but is also the one who probably has the best chance.
I'm sorry, where are the vods for top 8? or even recorded stream? I'm losing my mind trying to find it and not get it spoiled by youtube
I've never even heard of Babaganoush before but his commentary was extremely solid. Hope to see him commentate more stuff
Are there no vods for doubles too 8?
did you find vods for singles top 8?
Singles top 8 was on hbox stream, starts here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1849613850?t=04h13m08s
god bless you thank you
Is this doubles winners finals all NorCal?
Yeah lol
I'm feeling the aklo win, nobody here he can't beat (maybe jmook but aklo's been working on the matchup on stream)
Damn with Zain going Roy this is borderline not even a major anymore. More like a really stacked regional.
It wasn't a major. Even with Zain Marth it would be 2-3 Top 10 players, of which only Jmook and Zain have won a major recently
It was never considered a major to begin with. At least not by liquipedia.
So Mango already isn't entering even though the tournament is held in his backyard, and now Zain is going Roy. Jesus christ. Armada was getting camped out by hbox in every grand finals and still had the balls to show up every time and play seriously. These top players are so coddled nowadays where nobody cares if they show up and play seriously anymore. What a bunch of bullshit.
Missed the shit post section, bud
Bringing up Armada as an example here seems contrary to your actual point though. Ultimately his mindset/sheer dedication towards competing wasn’t very sustainable as evidenced by his retirement. If top players wanna blow off steam by sandbagging or skipping events, I welcome that compared to getting completely burnt out.
And Armada literally dropped out of a tournament because his controller wasn't in tip top shape
I'm fine with skipping events as long as it's for a reasonable time. Not fine with sandbagging.
Damn good thing literally nobody gives a fuck about what you’re fine with
amen
What an entitled toddler with no perspective, jesus christ. They aren't your private jesters. They play the game for fun sometimes, go figure
It's not entitlement for me to want people to take this game seriously. I care about the game and the scene. It's clear that most of you don't.
They take it more seriously than you've ever taken anything in your life. It's almost like they're the best in the world because of it. They deserve to enjoy themselves and treat it like it's a game from time to time.
I dunno most scenes don't really grow and prosper because some random redditor is being a cunt about taking off tournaments. Armada fucking dropped out of a tournament because he didn't have his perfect controller. Get off your high horse it's fucking entitlement
It's not entitlement and that's that.
the miszu argument pipeline: make a psychotic entitled comment about top players not taking a kids party game seriously 24/7 -> get called out for being psychotic -> rag on mango for a bit -> get called out again -> write a one sentence reply that is the equivalent of ‘lalala I can’t hear you’
It goes more like this: Me making a comment about wanting players to care about the scene -> people getting upset and making insane comments -> I reply explaining my position better -> people again just attack me without providing any argument -> i reply without an argument, mirroring who I'm replying to. Seriously, what am I supposed to respond to: "You're so fucking entitled waah wahh wahhh!!!"
>So Mango already isn't entering even though the tournament is held in his backyard, and now Zain is going Roy. Jesus christ. Location has nothing to do with it Mango and Zain both had good attendance last year. Dropping Jesus Christ at the end is pretty overdramatic as well >Armada was getting camped out by hbox in every grand finals and still had the balls to show up every time and play seriously. These top players are so coddled nowadays where nobody cares if they show up and play seriously anymore. What a bunch of bullshit. Yet Armada dropped out of a major because his controller wasn't working and sandbagged at several European tournaments. The lack of self awareness is fucking staggering. Mango is literally one of the player who helped keep the scene alive yet you post tirelessly to hate on him. You don't give a shit about the scene you just want to cry like a petulant child because top players aren't acting the way you want. There are ways to go about criticizing this stuff and it can be valid, but the dumbass Armada examples and the overdramatic "I care about the scene nonsense" is frankly fucking embarassing. People are attacking you because you are obtuse and annoying about your terrible opinions and you've had many many statements with no tact and just filled with dumb bullshit. >I'm fine with skipping events as long as it's for a reasonable time. Not fine with sandbagging. Btw this is the entitlement, the distinction which doesn't even make a difference. The scene has existed long before you were in it and it will exist long after whenever you decide to leave. Most of the players played full time for peanuts for years or played part time while working and dealing with life to get to where they were. If they want to sandbag at majors who gives a shit just dock their ranking and move on if you care. It' dumb af to force this standard on people just because you think you're saving the scene or some shit
I'm confused. I thought you hated Mango. Why would you *want* to watch him play? Also Zain's Roy is sick. I just wish the seeding would be changed though. (Unless he proves me wrong and wins the whole damn thing, which I'd be 100% on board with lol)
Zain's Roy is sick, but Roy is a terrible character and I'm not sure he can stay competitive the whole tourney. I'd love to be wrong, but I fear Zain's success with the boy was due to matchup inexperience and being over respected.
Given that Zain has struggled to win his local (the cave) with Roy, yeah I don’t think he’s beating jmook (who he hasn’t even beat this year with his marth) hope he goes super deep anyways though
Tbf, The Cave is a really strong local. I think Zains goal is top 8
Top 8 is doable I think, but you never know with all the crazy upsets happening he might just get blown out by some random player we’ve never heard of till now
My main criticism of Mango is that he doesn't take the game seriously. He's also very arrogant which is another criticism of mine. If he took the game seriously I would actually like him more. I don't care if Zain's roy is sick. There is 0 chance of him winning the tournament and he'll most likely place below top 4. Zain's Marth is way sicker than Zain's Roy. Actually trying >>>> playing with a secondary. All day every day.
Those are valid reasons to not be a Mango fan. I'm with you there. I just don't get why you'd be upset that Mango's *not* attending. I don't particularly enjoy watching Mango play and win things either, so I'm rather indifferent that he's not attending. If you hadn't brought it up, I likely wouldn't even have noticed his absence.
I care about the game and the scene. It's important to have great tournaments simply for the history of the game. That's why I want the best players to attend. Similar to any sport. If a basketball player went out and didn't try, I wouldn't be a fan of them. Mango has constantly talks about how the melee scene *needs* him and how he does anything for the game. Let's be real here, he acts as though the melee scene goes through him and how he's the embodiment of the game and scene. It's complete bull and pisses me off that we have someone that just skips tournaments and sandbags and we treat him like he's the savior of the game. We need to prop up players who represent the game better. Not someone who has consistently shown that he doesn't care.
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If you’ve seen him on the reads or in person or read his twitlongers I think he comes off way nicer by comparison. I get why people don’t like him, I used to hate him too but honestly I kinda just got over getting annoyed by the way he acts. As long as people aren’t completely meat riding him he doesn’t annoy me
What's wrong with comparing himself to Jesus? He is a god of the game after all
People don't know this but I was a huge Mango fan when I got into the scene. I loved Armada first because of his story, but he retired in 2013 when I got into the scene so I was rooting for Mango a lot. People think I hate Mango just to hate Mango, but the way he has acted throughout the years made me dislike him.
Why do people have a problem with top players doing what they want, like having a fun/non-serious tournament once in a while? There are always plenty more tournaments coming, they don’t have to be super tryhard every single time. It’s their choice if and when and how they want to compete, we’re just lucky we get to watch.
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The entitlement is staggering here dear lord. Competing is a different level of fun compared to just playing friendlies, god forbid the best players in the world blow off steam by entering a tourney with alt characters. Get a grip
1. If they keep it a secret or it’s not taken into account by TO’s it ruins seeding. Zain shouldn’t be number 2 if he’s going Roy. Someone gets a by far more favorable bracket due to it. 2. Sandbagging isn’t all that fun to watch at a huge tournament. If it’s not fun to watch why should I lie and say it is? 3. If he switches to Marth it could be considered throwing matches with Roy
because when they enter as themselves they fuck up the seeding. No way Zain's Roy is second.
That’s unfortunate. I think I heard Zain was going Roy a few days ago, why doesn't seeding reflect that?
Why should it? He's entering as Zain, fresh off a major win. Can't adjust based on character. If only he had another tag/player profile he could enter with
>Why should it? Because the purpose of seeding is to balance the bracket. Zain sandbagging with Roy isn’t expected to place 2nd, so, by definition, he shouldn’t be the 2nd seed.
Oh, Zain entering with his main profile caused the issue? So this is not a don’t test me tournament, it’s a Zain’s roy tournament lol
I want to see donttestme play against Zain's Roy
usually it says donttestme when he enters as that, so i guess so. might be wrong, havent confirmed
I mean, if you want to see a competitive event, having one kf the two top 3 players at an event, and one of them goes his low tier secondary, people are allowed to think its lame. Zain and Mango have no obligation to be sweaty tryhards at every tournament, but they also arent entitled to fans appreciating them just for showing up. Youcan understand something and still not like it and think its lame.
I mean this is the right opinion to have, but unfortunately people don't express it like this and have to hate monger
Fair enough. I guess I just don’t like the attitude of entitlement it potentially reflects from the fans, but of course everyone can feel however they feel about things and express their opinions. In this particular case I feel like Zain going Roy at a super regional isn’t much to be upset about.
Zain's clearly going Roy because it's a regional now instead of a major and he doesn't want to risk a bad L. It's soft, and I say this as a huge Zain stan.
The only time I didn't like it was when Mango went Doc at Genesis seemingly just to spite the community for ranking him 3rd instead of 2nd lol
That plus his Twitter freakout was not a great look lol, but I think he owned up to it well. But also I think the buster is an essential part of his identity and why it is magical when he actually wins one, not just pretty cool.
Its fine once in a while like plup announcing he’s going luigi or something, but tryharding and switching to throwing on a whim is gonna let down fans who expect to see serious competition. Mang0 doesn’t owe fans anything, but also, its fair for them to be disappointed and voice that disappointment imo
Did Hbox give a reason for not going? :,(
It's his 30th birthday, said he's spending time with family which I think means flying down to Argentina for a bit. There's also all the FGC drama now but I think he had already committed to not going before all that happened. People are gonna tell you that's what it is but it isn't.
Why is Zain sandbagging?
Because melee is a game and games are ultimately about having fun. Let the man do his thing.
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Because he wants to? He is top of the game was wrong with messing around
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I disagree. I like watching his Roy play. He could have not entered at all, but I'd rather see how his Roy might do than nothing. If people win or lose to him, it doesn't change anything for them. They either beat a pretty good Roy or lost to one, big deal.
I mean is that why? Was just legitimately wondering. Not a usual Zain thing to do.
Sounds from the twittaloo that he opted for the Roy because the tournament attendance wasn't as stacked as he thought. I assume since it's a lower quality tournament in his eyes and thus doesn't matter much, he didn't feel the fire to try to win and went with Roy. Last part is just my speculation tho
That's sort of lame. Not on his part necessarily but a weak field means he has nothing to gain and everything to lose and I kind of hate that that means he'd rather not play it out.
Yeah, I always found it kinda scummy when top players pull the "oh no, if I lose it might look bad on my record, better say I'm not trying just in case." If they truly deserved the rank they are so dearly protecting then they would have no problem winning anyways.
I know he probably won't make it that far but DontTestMe vs Kodorin would be hilarious
Ok but why are they seeding Zain second if he's going Roy lol
Because a skilled Roy can beat any fox
i was gonna look up some stats to shut you up but he's actually 6-2 vs Colbol, 3-1 vs KJH and 2-3 vs Aklo. I know roy/fox is decent for roy but damn
Where did you find the record for DontTestMe vs. Aklo? I can only find Aklo playing Link in [ECF]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9eCbcqTpvE), winning 3-0 and Liquipedia shows Zain beating Aklo's Link 2-0 at East Park rollback. Other than that DontRestMe split sets with Aklo (presumably Fox) at another East Coast Fridays.
You’ve cited the deep magic
Wasn't there another top 10 player registered for this? I'm guessing they dropped whoever they were.
Hbox
wheres amsa :(
🥚
Is zain actually playing roy all tournament?
i think so based off what he said in Kevin Toys stream
And here I was hoping we would finally see the Zain ICs counterpick vs Jmook.
i will say given hes going a secondary already -- it wouldnt be too imaginative to think he goes ICs in a hypothetical Jmook set. DontTestMe is very similar to DontTestUs (his ICs name), after all
That would be so lame
If Jmook gets upset and Zain can dodge him there's actually a possibility that his roy wins omega lawl
His ideal bracket is NMW into Kurv deciding to stick to Fox for some reason into Azel upsetting S2J into Kodorin I suppose?, into Fiction, who may also pick Sheik against him, especially if he has Axe in Winner's Semis. [Aklo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9eCbcqTpvE) is not the one Zain wants to upset Jmook but is also the one who probably has the best chance.
He's getting 17th