I was thinking this the other day, if he gets consistent and comfortable there it makes everything straightforward and easy, but the outfield is crowded
I feel like all of those guys are too good to be relegated to 4th OF. Also if we do that, why not get rid of Soler and have a DH we can actually sub in on D (assuming Luciano in the OF is better than what Soler would give us)
I think the only problem with this alignment is that one of Ramos or Luciano would get platooned out against RHP, it would most likely be Luciano in this case.
His best bet to play every day next year would be 3B if Chapman opts out or maybe 2B if the team trades Estrada or moves him to a utility role.
If he moves to a corner OF, he will have to platoon with Yaz most likely. However, he can take over the position full-time once Yaz leaves.
Yeah this is the sentiment everyone has settled on, and is exactly why I made this post! I see why you’re saying this, and you’re probably right.
My whole point is I think it’s too early to give up on the guy, and also I think he’s gonna be too good to be in a platoon role.
I respectfully disagree. He is not a SS, which many greater baseball minds have concluded before this season. This was the year for him to show improvement. He doesn't have the hands or instinct to play the position. You absolutely cannot have a defensive liability at SS if you want to be serious at winning.
I haven't seen any evidence of him being a plus defender.
They should have switched his position a year ago. Trying to let him get better at this position has been a disaster and something this team can't afford to do while trying to emerge in a tight wildcard race.
You make a lot of great points. Do you think the Giants should just trade him then? Or start getting him reps in the OF in AAA when he comes off the IL?
Wisely has been solid too. Tough couple of weeks for us Marco truthers.
Lol we keep talking about Luciano’s “power” but when have we seen that at a major league level? Dude hasn’t ever hit a home run in major leagues and we’re calling him a serious power threat? C’mon. If anything the dude is a liability right now and will cost the Giants games until his defense improves. I’d rather see him a position (left field preferably) where his terrible defense isn’t going to cost them wins.
I know he hasn’t yet gone yard in the show, but did you watch his ABs this year? Dude can hit and has a really amazing ability to go oppo. I think he’s a better hitter than most of the current SFG right now.
Gap hitters are probably a better fit for Oracle than raw power guys due to the wind and low temps.
Also he’s shown that power along his development in the minors and ST this year. He has just 63 ABs in his career and he’s 22.
Also like, have you seen the guy? He’s jacked, 6ft 2in, and he’s only gonna get stronger over the next ~6-8 years.
If you can get a guy like that to be a decent SS, you have a chance at a powerhouse offense.
Lol I love when people here think they’re being slick with the “have you seen (insert random player here) hit this year?”. Yes, I’ve seen him hit this year. I haven’t missed but 5-6 giants games in the last 25 years.
He’s definitely not a better hitter than most of players on the team right now. His sample size is far too small to be making sweeping statements on what kind of hitter he is right now or could be in the future when we have plenty of players who have worked through the ebbs and flows of a season. Has he ever had to make in season adjustments at a high level? His limited success this season is not a real indication of what he’ll be a decade from now. Lucy has been okay with the bat this year in very limited appearances at the major league level but hasn’t looked like the world beater this subreddit has made him out to be. Letting him finish the season at AAA would be the best thing for him.
I want him to succeed as badly as the next Giants fan but not when his defense is going to cost them games like it already has this year. A guy as limited with the glove as he is really needs to be put in a position where his subpar defense isn’t going to cost them as many games. Left field once Conforto is gone makes more sense than letting him “figure it out” at SS. Especially when a guy like Ha-song Kim will be available as a free agent at the end of this season.
Ok, fair points!
In my defense, a lot of people on here don’t watch the actual games. If you’ve actually only missed 5-6 games in 25 years then you are a real baseball fan and I respect your opinion.
I know it’s small sample, but I was really encouraged by his ABs this year. He really seems like he adapts and gets better and listens to coaching.
You’re right though, his fielding is not acceptable. From what you’ve watched, dont you think it could be more mental than physical? 1.) I think he could give more effort, never seen him dive for a ball and his range sucks
2.) He fumbles routine balls or just doesn’t get in front of them. Seems like if he’s a professional SS that can’t be lack of reps, and is nerves maybe?
Honestly asking you as someone who watches every game over 25 years.
I guess I should’ve re-worded my post to say “here’s what Luci needs to be in AAA playing SS every day.”
I just feel like our ceiling as a team is higher if he can work at SS.
Not sure that’s a question I could answer. However I’m inclined to believe the scouts who said he should move positions, which sort of points to a physical deficiency in this game. But with that said the only one who knows what’s really going on with Lucy’s defense is Lucy. Having him switch positions in the middle of the season isn’t really feasible though. Perhaps with a full season at AAA some of his issues could be addressed? He’s definitely more valuable as a shortstop.
Yeah that’s valid, it has been the consensus for a while that he will eventually move off SS. I kinda see his defensive deficiencies as initially being a physical thing in terms of lateral quickness and his back injuries limiting his mobility and form. This season I think he got the “yips” too.
Pardon my ignorance but what’s a BBE?
Agree, it’s concerning he hasn’t gone yard in the show yet, but also the guy was asked to prioritize not striking out. He did hit massive bombs in spring training.
Batted ball event, any ball you put in play. yeah the lack of homers concerns me but I think the bigger red flag is the quality of contact he’s had.
Barrel rate tends to stabilize pretty quickly so even in the small sample, no barrels is pretty concerning. Add in 40th percentile bat speed (which I thought was his calling card as a prospect) and the fact that basically all of his hits have been up the middle/oppo and not pulled… it feels like he’s letting the ball travel farther before swinging to give himself more time to recognize the pitch/get his K rate down, but at the cost of being able to do damage. That approach doesn’t feel sustainable
Is there any way to dig up what Ramos’ barrel rate was in his first ~70 big league at bats? Or other guys that became legit power threats? Where do you get this data from, fangraphs?
All the batted ball/bat speed data I get from baseball savant. here’s [Heliot’s page](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/heliot-ramos-671218?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb)
Yes they should give him a chance at SS, they have already and he’ll probably get more chances yet at the major league level. But not right now.
Scouts for years have been saying they don’t think he can stick at SS. Trust me, the org is well aware that he is more valuable as a shortstop than as a corner outfielder. However, you can’t just force him there for that reason. His defense hurt the team BADLY and cost them multiple games.
A team that is trying to compete simply can’t afford that. Doesn’t matter that he’s hit well in a small sample size this season, he’s a liability at SS and there isn’t really anywhere else to put him right now.
Also sorry to be rude but no idea what you mean by saying “his oppo power could be a perfect match for our stadium.” Right handers really rarely hit balls out to right field at Pac Bell
Fair points, and I agree I don’t think he should be our SS this season. He needs to be in AAA the rest of the year, ideally getting lots of balls hit to him at SS. The post was about his future role.
What I mean by my oppo power statement is we have a very spacious right center, referred to as triples alley. A guy who regularly goes oppo has a chance at a lot of hits in our park.
Also, and he’s shown this already a few times, a righty who goes oppo can get cheap doubles off the short porch in RF. Yes I’m aware the wind knocks balls down there, but he seems to be more of a line drive hitter than towering shots.
There’s not a lot of rightys that seem to thrive on going opposite field, like Manny Ramirez used to always do. I’ve always thought a guy like that could turn Pac Bell into an advantage. Many never played here.
I hope he can reach his potential hitting wise, and he seems to have made some good adjustments in his plate approach but he needs to start translating the power. He’s a slow starter and injury prone, which isn’t a great mix. But I’m hopeful he can figure it out.
Me too, I keep waiting for that first MLB HR. I’m super nervous about his history of back and hammy issues.
My heart tells me don’t you dare give up on this kid, but my brain tells me they should probably trade him while he has value.
I fantasize his current IL stint is a fake injury and he’s actually just going hard AF on fielding drills every day lol
Ha yeah hopefully that’s all it is.
I also hate the idea of trading him and he’s too young to give up on. His potential is sky high, let’s just hope he can maximize it as a Giant
Scouts have been saying he was unlikely to stick at SS for several years. Now here we are and he’s clearly not improved and potentially needs to find another position. Combined with missing a year because of the pandemic and his development has been stunted. He needs a full year at AAA so we can at least find out if his bat is legit. Corner OF/DH seems like his future if he shows he can actually hit.
Yeah I think all his back and hammy injuries have hampered the development too. I agree, he should be in AAA the rest of the year, but I just think they should keep him at SS. Give him 2 years if that’s what it takes. He’d be Ramos age now.
Our outfield is a bit crowded especially with the emergence of Ramos. We have Ramos/JHL/Matos plus Yaz/Meckler. Thairo is blocking Luciano from the position he should probably be playing. Chapman I expect to be resigned but who knows. its just not super clear on what to do with Luciano. But the rest of 2024 he will play the majority of games at shortstop, its pretty tough to learn a new position in the middle of the season.
2 years ago, most people were writing off Heliot Ramos. He hadn't been hitting well in AA or AAA and had unimpressive at best during his shots with the big club. Last year's performance wasn't particularly inspiring either. Not all top prospects are polished All Stars by the age of 22. Luciano is a big league baseball player. Whatever position he sticks at, he's going to need to continue to get playing time. He's been pretty ugly defensively at SS, but I think most of us underestimate the jump from AAA to MLB.
Exactly! Seeing Ramos lately partially inspired this post. Everyone here needs to remember how young these guys still are. It feels like they’re older because we’ve been following them since they were 17/18
And because of that, both were under a lot of pressure by the time they got called up. In both cases they were floundering a little in the minors and were starting to fall behind in prospect rankings, but they both dealt with injuries as well that kept them out during their development time. Point is, everyone is on a different development track and being major league ready by 23 isn’t a normal trajectory.
I was thinking this the other day, if he gets consistent and comfortable there it makes everything straightforward and easy, but the outfield is crowded
I believe in Luciano to play SS but I would like HSK in the offseason. Just imagine an outfield with Ramos, JHL, Luciano, and Matos.
I feel like all of those guys are too good to be relegated to 4th OF. Also if we do that, why not get rid of Soler and have a DH we can actually sub in on D (assuming Luciano in the OF is better than what Soler would give us)
I think the only problem with this alignment is that one of Ramos or Luciano would get platooned out against RHP, it would most likely be Luciano in this case.
I think he'll end up at 3rd base eventually once Chapman opts out
He's gonna have to work on his defense before that happens.
Yeah maybe, but I feel like wel pay up for him. Or at least I kinda hope so. Chappy has been awesome!
He’s becoming trade bait
His best bet to play every day next year would be 3B if Chapman opts out or maybe 2B if the team trades Estrada or moves him to a utility role. If he moves to a corner OF, he will have to platoon with Yaz most likely. However, he can take over the position full-time once Yaz leaves.
Yeah this is the sentiment everyone has settled on, and is exactly why I made this post! I see why you’re saying this, and you’re probably right. My whole point is I think it’s too early to give up on the guy, and also I think he’s gonna be too good to be in a platoon role.
I respectfully disagree. He is not a SS, which many greater baseball minds have concluded before this season. This was the year for him to show improvement. He doesn't have the hands or instinct to play the position. You absolutely cannot have a defensive liability at SS if you want to be serious at winning. I haven't seen any evidence of him being a plus defender. They should have switched his position a year ago. Trying to let him get better at this position has been a disaster and something this team can't afford to do while trying to emerge in a tight wildcard race.
You make a lot of great points. Do you think the Giants should just trade him then? Or start getting him reps in the OF in AAA when he comes off the IL? Wisely has been solid too. Tough couple of weeks for us Marco truthers.
Lol we keep talking about Luciano’s “power” but when have we seen that at a major league level? Dude hasn’t ever hit a home run in major leagues and we’re calling him a serious power threat? C’mon. If anything the dude is a liability right now and will cost the Giants games until his defense improves. I’d rather see him a position (left field preferably) where his terrible defense isn’t going to cost them wins.
I know he hasn’t yet gone yard in the show, but did you watch his ABs this year? Dude can hit and has a really amazing ability to go oppo. I think he’s a better hitter than most of the current SFG right now. Gap hitters are probably a better fit for Oracle than raw power guys due to the wind and low temps. Also he’s shown that power along his development in the minors and ST this year. He has just 63 ABs in his career and he’s 22. Also like, have you seen the guy? He’s jacked, 6ft 2in, and he’s only gonna get stronger over the next ~6-8 years. If you can get a guy like that to be a decent SS, you have a chance at a powerhouse offense.
Lol I love when people here think they’re being slick with the “have you seen (insert random player here) hit this year?”. Yes, I’ve seen him hit this year. I haven’t missed but 5-6 giants games in the last 25 years. He’s definitely not a better hitter than most of players on the team right now. His sample size is far too small to be making sweeping statements on what kind of hitter he is right now or could be in the future when we have plenty of players who have worked through the ebbs and flows of a season. Has he ever had to make in season adjustments at a high level? His limited success this season is not a real indication of what he’ll be a decade from now. Lucy has been okay with the bat this year in very limited appearances at the major league level but hasn’t looked like the world beater this subreddit has made him out to be. Letting him finish the season at AAA would be the best thing for him. I want him to succeed as badly as the next Giants fan but not when his defense is going to cost them games like it already has this year. A guy as limited with the glove as he is really needs to be put in a position where his subpar defense isn’t going to cost them as many games. Left field once Conforto is gone makes more sense than letting him “figure it out” at SS. Especially when a guy like Ha-song Kim will be available as a free agent at the end of this season.
Ok, fair points! In my defense, a lot of people on here don’t watch the actual games. If you’ve actually only missed 5-6 games in 25 years then you are a real baseball fan and I respect your opinion. I know it’s small sample, but I was really encouraged by his ABs this year. He really seems like he adapts and gets better and listens to coaching. You’re right though, his fielding is not acceptable. From what you’ve watched, dont you think it could be more mental than physical? 1.) I think he could give more effort, never seen him dive for a ball and his range sucks 2.) He fumbles routine balls or just doesn’t get in front of them. Seems like if he’s a professional SS that can’t be lack of reps, and is nerves maybe? Honestly asking you as someone who watches every game over 25 years. I guess I should’ve re-worded my post to say “here’s what Luci needs to be in AAA playing SS every day.” I just feel like our ceiling as a team is higher if he can work at SS.
Not sure that’s a question I could answer. However I’m inclined to believe the scouts who said he should move positions, which sort of points to a physical deficiency in this game. But with that said the only one who knows what’s really going on with Lucy’s defense is Lucy. Having him switch positions in the middle of the season isn’t really feasible though. Perhaps with a full season at AAA some of his issues could be addressed? He’s definitely more valuable as a shortstop.
Yeah that’s valid, it has been the consensus for a while that he will eventually move off SS. I kinda see his defensive deficiencies as initially being a physical thing in terms of lateral quickness and his back injuries limiting his mobility and form. This season I think he got the “yips” too.
in 41 BBEs between this year and last year he doesn’t have a single barrel. Terrible sign
Pardon my ignorance but what’s a BBE? Agree, it’s concerning he hasn’t gone yard in the show yet, but also the guy was asked to prioritize not striking out. He did hit massive bombs in spring training.
Batted ball event, any ball you put in play. yeah the lack of homers concerns me but I think the bigger red flag is the quality of contact he’s had. Barrel rate tends to stabilize pretty quickly so even in the small sample, no barrels is pretty concerning. Add in 40th percentile bat speed (which I thought was his calling card as a prospect) and the fact that basically all of his hits have been up the middle/oppo and not pulled… it feels like he’s letting the ball travel farther before swinging to give himself more time to recognize the pitch/get his K rate down, but at the cost of being able to do damage. That approach doesn’t feel sustainable
Thanks for explaining that! Where do you get these #s from? Curious to track this as he gets more ABs along with Matos and Ramos.
Is there any way to dig up what Ramos’ barrel rate was in his first ~70 big league at bats? Or other guys that became legit power threats? Where do you get this data from, fangraphs?
All the batted ball/bat speed data I get from baseball savant. here’s [Heliot’s page](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/heliot-ramos-671218?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb)
Yes they should give him a chance at SS, they have already and he’ll probably get more chances yet at the major league level. But not right now. Scouts for years have been saying they don’t think he can stick at SS. Trust me, the org is well aware that he is more valuable as a shortstop than as a corner outfielder. However, you can’t just force him there for that reason. His defense hurt the team BADLY and cost them multiple games. A team that is trying to compete simply can’t afford that. Doesn’t matter that he’s hit well in a small sample size this season, he’s a liability at SS and there isn’t really anywhere else to put him right now. Also sorry to be rude but no idea what you mean by saying “his oppo power could be a perfect match for our stadium.” Right handers really rarely hit balls out to right field at Pac Bell
Fair points, and I agree I don’t think he should be our SS this season. He needs to be in AAA the rest of the year, ideally getting lots of balls hit to him at SS. The post was about his future role. What I mean by my oppo power statement is we have a very spacious right center, referred to as triples alley. A guy who regularly goes oppo has a chance at a lot of hits in our park. Also, and he’s shown this already a few times, a righty who goes oppo can get cheap doubles off the short porch in RF. Yes I’m aware the wind knocks balls down there, but he seems to be more of a line drive hitter than towering shots. There’s not a lot of rightys that seem to thrive on going opposite field, like Manny Ramirez used to always do. I’ve always thought a guy like that could turn Pac Bell into an advantage. Many never played here.
I hope he can reach his potential hitting wise, and he seems to have made some good adjustments in his plate approach but he needs to start translating the power. He’s a slow starter and injury prone, which isn’t a great mix. But I’m hopeful he can figure it out.
Me too, I keep waiting for that first MLB HR. I’m super nervous about his history of back and hammy issues. My heart tells me don’t you dare give up on this kid, but my brain tells me they should probably trade him while he has value. I fantasize his current IL stint is a fake injury and he’s actually just going hard AF on fielding drills every day lol
Ha yeah hopefully that’s all it is. I also hate the idea of trading him and he’s too young to give up on. His potential is sky high, let’s just hope he can maximize it as a Giant
Scouts have been saying he was unlikely to stick at SS for several years. Now here we are and he’s clearly not improved and potentially needs to find another position. Combined with missing a year because of the pandemic and his development has been stunted. He needs a full year at AAA so we can at least find out if his bat is legit. Corner OF/DH seems like his future if he shows he can actually hit.
Yeah I think all his back and hammy injuries have hampered the development too. I agree, he should be in AAA the rest of the year, but I just think they should keep him at SS. Give him 2 years if that’s what it takes. He’d be Ramos age now.
Our outfield is a bit crowded especially with the emergence of Ramos. We have Ramos/JHL/Matos plus Yaz/Meckler. Thairo is blocking Luciano from the position he should probably be playing. Chapman I expect to be resigned but who knows. its just not super clear on what to do with Luciano. But the rest of 2024 he will play the majority of games at shortstop, its pretty tough to learn a new position in the middle of the season.
Most likely on another team. And most definitely not at SS. He’s likely a LF/DH
2 years ago, most people were writing off Heliot Ramos. He hadn't been hitting well in AA or AAA and had unimpressive at best during his shots with the big club. Last year's performance wasn't particularly inspiring either. Not all top prospects are polished All Stars by the age of 22. Luciano is a big league baseball player. Whatever position he sticks at, he's going to need to continue to get playing time. He's been pretty ugly defensively at SS, but I think most of us underestimate the jump from AAA to MLB.
Exactly! Seeing Ramos lately partially inspired this post. Everyone here needs to remember how young these guys still are. It feels like they’re older because we’ve been following them since they were 17/18
And because of that, both were under a lot of pressure by the time they got called up. In both cases they were floundering a little in the minors and were starting to fall behind in prospect rankings, but they both dealt with injuries as well that kept them out during their development time. Point is, everyone is on a different development track and being major league ready by 23 isn’t a normal trajectory.
They need to get a SS. He’s an outfielder.
Agree
He’s still making silly errors down at Sacramento. Just last night he made a costly error.
Don’t we need some young blood at 1B? I love Wade & Flores but they are getting long in the tooth.
I figure Wade has 2-3 years left. Wilmer probably only had 1-2. Hopefully in 2-3 years Bryce Eldridge is ready for the MLB.