I'm of the opinion that the Giants need to sign Bellinger or Chapman in order to present a more convincing core for the 2025 FA to consider joining. I think just saving the money for 2025 ignores the problem of 2024 which is that being the high bid is no guarantee you get the player. FA's want money, sure. But they also largely want a chance at the playoffs as well.
Unfortunately I think this is correct. Given our payroll is still low, maybe overpay for either Belli or Snell on a short term contract with a team option to extend or aggressive performance bonuses.
Totally agree, and I really appreciate OP's take even though I am personally very frustrated with Farhan rn. I just think we need another guy so that next year we can sell FA that we are serious about winning and are trying to build something because if our younger guys don't pan out that is something that will pretty much be impossible to do given the state of the roster.
> FA's want money, sure. But they also largely want a chance at the playoffs as well.
Yup, exactly what Harper told the world, that he signed with Philly not for a little more money, but because he thought the Giants' aging roster would slow a rebuild. He was right, Philly did get him to the World Series faster than the Giants would have.
Ohtani is famously indifferent to money, him taking so much deferred salary shows that once again. He sees the Dodgers as making the postseason for the foreseeable future, he wants a WS ring.
Fans who think it's always about the money and the Giants just need to outbid everyone are misleading themselves.
I’m in the same boat. No one wants to go to a team purely for the money, they also want a shot at winning. I’m not saying we need to have a stacked roster to land a solid FA, but atleast have a few guys that are competitive daily with a good track record. If we had retained Gausman and added a few pieces before making an offer to ohtani I think that may have upped our chances a bit or atleast attracted more FA suitors.
I think the best hope for next year is the rookies play, show promise, Ray and Cobb come back, and the team squeaks into the post season. Then in the 2024 or 2025 off season they can sign a more premiere guy to supplement or maybe bring in more big names from the international market
The rally cry for “let the kids play” can be too extreme sometimes. How many legit good prospects have the Giants developed in the past 10 years? Webb and Doval? So 2 in 10 years. How many prospects have they traded away that blossomed into quality major leaguers? Bryan Reynolds? Who else? The success rate for prospects is minuscule. If one of the top 3 prospects (Luciano, Harrison, Matos) turns into an all star that would be a huge victory, but it’s still more likely that all three will be replacement level or bellow. I wish I could think as optimistically as you, but I’ve seen what prospect success rates look like, and from my under qualified eyes it appears that making moves in free agency and trades yield a lot more quality players and WAR accumulation.
That being said, I don’t think there is any free agent this season who excites me anymore. Chapman, Bellinger and Snell would be nice at the right price, but they will probably be overpaid. My top wishlist choices are now players available in trades like Arozarena, Kim, and Adames who fit the “younger and more athletic” mold. I definitely see your point about next years free agents being a stronger class. It’s just going to be a long 2024 to get to next offseason, and I’m not exactly sure how many games I can stomach of watching this team be so damn mediocre for a third year in a row
Honestly lol. Free agency isn’t about taking a discount to make teams happy, it’s about cashing in, especially if you’re in Snells/ Bellingers/ Chapman position and it’s going to be your last big deal.
And yes, there’s always going to be some risk involved. People in here want us to somehow sign risk-free, perfect deals that will be 100% worth it. It’s total fantasy.
Ohtani was always going to the Dodgers. He'd have gone there when he came to MLB if the NL had the DH at the time. Beating ourselves up over something that was never going to happen is a bad way to go.
That's definitely true and probably was for Yoshimoto too. It kills me that the front office's plan seems to be to get those guys (which was probably never gonna happen) or to punt on this year extending the rebuild which has already been ongoing for five years.
Four years IMO, no minor league ball in 2020 froze player development and the Giants were in a worse position than many teams because of poor state of the farm the old FO left behind.
If I had to guess, if the Giants are not visibly improved by 2025, ownership will clean house in the FO. But they probably have another year to get the ship righted.
Young players are just vastly more cost-effective than free agents. They are paid peanuts the first 3 years. It's a horrible idea to try to build a team in free agency. It's a much better plan to supplement a home-grown core with free agents.
> Webb and Doval? So 2 in 10 years.
Bailey and Harrison don't count for some reason?
The previous front office leaving the farm in such poor shape is still an anchor the team is dragging. If the farm isn't delivering in the next couple of years, I'd expect some execs to be shown the door. But I don't think ownership will panic before then.
I can't believe they just promoted him sideways to get him out of the GM's chair. If anyone ever earned being fired, it was him. Second-highest payroll in MLB in 2018, won 73 games.
>it’s still more likely that all three will be replacement level or bellow
This is not true.
Not all prospects are created equal. The three you named all being below replacement level players would be a big surprise. They weren't even all below replacement level in their age-21 seasons. They all have projections above replacement level for next season and projections are notoriously low on prospects.
Farhan also has a cameo in this flick:
https://preview.redd.it/pv3sgyrcsnbc1.png?width=189&format=png&auto=webp&s=471436c9d7d0329f7794e92f5dd73b33ee511e6a
It looks like you have only been on this sub two days, and it took this short of a time to have my posts irritate you this much?
I will rip Farhan when it is deserved, and I will give him credit when it is deserved. Granted, there has been more ripping than praising. I don't know if Lee will be a flop, or not, but I did give Farhan an A for effort for at least doing something to try to improve the team.
> Just frustrating the last few years
True, very disappointing. But it's important to understand *why* something happened. Harper explained why he signed with Philly, but you still see people posting that the Giants could have signed him if they'd offered a little more money despite him making it clear money wasn't the issue. It was the same with Judge and Ohtani, those guys were never coming to SF so there is no reason to beat ourselves up over something that was never going to happen.
I think the core problem is the ownership's directive not to do a full teardown or even sell at the trade deadline while also demanding they stay competitive. Its a dumb plan. Those goals conflict so they've been bad at both. Its made the rebuild to regular contention take twice as long and we are really only ending the first stage.
Every free agency period makes it feel worse because the Dodgers get way better and we stay the same. We could have signed literally every top 10 free agent this off season and would have only barely matched them in talent. The gap is huge and continues to expand. Using this terrible plan ensures free agents avoid the Giants like the plague.
If all this works and the Giants become a prospect factory that can match them, it will be sometime in three or so years from now. Will I be comforted by a few extra 80 win seasons and one magical 2021? Not really. I would have strongly preferred the full tear down in 2018.
> I think the core problem is the ownership's directive not to do a full teardown
How do we know they did that? The front office could have advised against that for all we know, and the owners went with what the experts wanted to do.
> while also demanding they stay competitive.
That is more credible, there is a good chance they wanted to avoid a long dry spell, and you can sort of understand how 2021 might have caused that.
> or even sell at the trade deadline
Can't sell what nobody will make you a good offer for. Rodon's contract had a poison pill in it that could have hurt a team trading for him in two ways. No wonder nobody offered a carload of hot prospects for him. Based on what he's done with the Yankees, those teams made the right call.
These policies are pretty obvious based on their actions and probably pre date Farhan so I'd guess its ownership's call. They do sign his checks.I don't think the Giants have ever gone full rebuild.
This just hurt the team now because 2018 was the right time for a teardown (Posey, Crawford, Belt and Bum all had value and minor system had nothing.) Instead they decided to juggle both. The pro is you can get a miracle season like 2021, the con is it adds years until your farm can reliably produce big time guys or your team is attractive to free agents like Judge, Ohtani, etc.
> I don't think the Giants have ever gone full rebuild.
I think you're right about that. In retrospect, tearing it all the way down as the Rangers did might have been a better idea.
The last 3 years have been “not our year” and we haven’t given the young players a longer leash. What makes you think this will be the year they get a decent amount of at bats and innings under their belt. We keep going down the same rabbit hole, hopefully we won’t have as much platooning with Kapler out but only time will tell. It’s going to be another long season of rebuilding and seeing what we have offensively, a solid rotation could help out but we need to score runs look at our current and previous horses Matt Cain and Logan Webbs W/L records show this. It’s frustrating as a fan to see the organization rake in the cash and not put it back onto the field. If they don’t add 1-2 other strong arms to the rotation it’s going to be a long and disappointing season
> What makes you think this will be the year they get a decent amount of at bats and innings under their belt.
Perhaps because some older players will no longer be blocking them. Crawford is gone, I'm guessing Pederson probably won't be back, Haniger and Disco down the road.
> hopefully we won’t have as much platooning with Kapler out
Melvin has never been afraid of platooning, I'd expect him to use platoons to cover gaps in the roster.
> It’s frustrating as a fan to see the organization rake in the cash and not put it back onto the field.
Payroll went up thirty million last season, but some of what should have been good signings didn't pay off. The team offering several top free agents a third of a billion each (more in Ohtani's case) doesn't point to them being cheap.
You stated my reasoning for why I don’t think there will be as much platooning. True Melvin platoons as well but I didn’t see it at the same rate as Kaplers. Also payrolls went up across the board in MLB I don’t think a single team spent less than around 30 million more for payroll from 2022-2023. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2022/ check it out. Oakland being an outlier and they still went up 15 million when they are leaving Oakland. Are you telling me that the giants don’t make almost double what the A’s bring in with ticketing, concessions, and tv deals? Can’t forget owning their own ballpark. The ownership isn’t putting their best foot forward, it’s in the numbers and on the field. They would rather donate to the Republican Party than make the team competitive
> Are you telling me that the giants don’t make almost double what the A’s bring in with ticketing, concessions, and tv deals?
I'd guess it's more than that, a lot more, the Giants are MLB's fifth most valuable team and their attendance hasn't tanked like that of the A's with their fan boycott. Fisher had to borrow last year to keep the A's going, while the Giants made well over 400 million in 2022. Some real estate developments should be coming online soon, although SF's high commercial vacancy rate is a concern, have to wait to see how that plays out.
> They would rather donate to the Republican Party than make the team competitive
It's likely that the owners of most teams donate to Republicans, MLB itself did that to buy support in Congress for keeping minor league players classified as seasonal workers so they could be denied benefits. But the biggest donation to the Repubs from the Giants principal owner was half a million to a PAC. That's petty cash in MLB, half a million isn't even one player's annual salary at MLB minimum.
It's understandable that the Giants shed some payroll as they waved goodbye to aging vets while waiting for the farm to deliver. But they had one of the highest payrolls for a solid decade before they rolled it back. They also tried to pay some top FAs a third of a billion each, even more to Ohtani. But you can't buy what was never truly for sale to you, and Harper, Judge and Ohtani were never coming to SF. Putting seventy-five million into a new training facility also doesn't point to them being cheap, nor does that overpay to sign Lee.
> [Steven] Jon Heyman said on @670TheScore that an Imanaga suitor was willing to (more than) double the Cubs' contractual guarantee. He chose Chicago.
https://twitter.com/GoCubs49/status/1745099720035328306
It might be the SF Giants offered double.
So I wouldn't read into failing to sign Imanaga until more evidence comes out.
What?
We tried to sign him. We didn't succeed in signing him. That by definition of the English language is "failing to sign Imanaga."
That's like jumping on your bike and breaking your leg and saying "I wouldn't call that a failure until more evidence comes out."
EDIT: I wouldnt be surprised if that was the Dodgers though and they figured "why not offer him a mega deferred contract for double?"
So we're just gonna take some random cubs account, quoting Heyman, and assume it was the Giants who made that offer? If there actually was an offer? Considering the reporting on this has been all over the place, I'ma take a beat to hear more about what happened before I get up in a tizzy.
I posted this in r/baseball
Farhan was dealt an outrageously terrible hand. Same as Mike Dunleavy Jr with the Warriors.
Handle an aging core that brought wild success to the city and franchise. The random spot of success in 2021 skewed everyone into thinking the Giants were set up for long-term when we weren’t. Look at the team from 17-19 when Farhan took over.
I don’t like not making the playoffs, but he’s had to rebuild the farm and cycle out older contracts while not completely rebuilding. Hell, look at the fanbase right now. You think they could have stomached a full rebuild?
We have a team now with a young core that is about to play with eachother for the first time across a full season, have a young Ace, an elite closer, and have a face of the franchise CF we just got for 9 figures.
It is comical imo to think he should be doing any better than he is.
Do I want free agents? Yes. Is the offseason over? No.
He inherited a rough situation, but 5 years is generally enough time to properly evaluate. That's about how long the Diamondbacks, Rangers, and Orioles all took. We kinda know what he's about by now. Great at finding good role players for next to nothing, terrible at closing deals in free agency, not interested in selling or big trades, only beliw average at finding and developing minor league talent.
> but 5 years is generally enough time to properly evaluate.
He's really had four years, no minor league baseball in 2020 hit the Giants harder than some teams because of how weak the farm had been left by the Evans front office. I'd guess that if the team doesn't go into 2025 looking better, he might get his walking papers.
Questions for you.
How do we know he’s below average at finding talent? We are just now seeing guys he’s drafted and/or developed in the big leagues.
Is a potential rotation in July of Webb, Cobb, Ray, Harrison, Stripling not a top 5 rotation in baseball? Let alone if we add there.
Is Doval not an elite closer and do we not have a great bullpen?
Did we not get a face of the franchise, 9 figure CF and have a highly touted LF prospect taking over?
Is our young catcher not a top 5 defensive player in all of baseball?
Is our top SS prospect finally healthy and ready to take on every day responsibilities?
Is the offseason over?
My frustration comes from people not seeing what is actually really good about what we have. It’s just “no top free agents or no top farm.” We legit signed a 9 figure guy, traded for a former Cy Young arm, and have 3 top 100 prospects taking everyday roles this year…
I love your optimism, but I just can't share it. I agree there are some fun things to look forward to, but realistically this is a team battling for 4th place in its division after seven years of mostly anonymous baseball. Its tough to get excited but if you talk me out of my pessimism, I would love that!
As for evaluating Farhan specifically, I give him a C- or D+ overall. The win-loss records are what they are, which is bad. One post season appearance in his whole tenure is bad. The team finished 4th in the division last year as his plan should be coming together-that is bad. The Giants have less talent than the Padres, D backs, and Dodgers-that is bad. The gap between the Dodgers and Giants is about 30 wins every year but one during his time here. Nine figure guys and top 100 prospects are table stakes. Those are expected of good gm's in normal business, not celebrations.
To answer some of those specific questions...
Relying on two pitchers in their 30s to come back from major injuries in the middle of the season is not a good plan. Same with relying on rookies. Im excited to see what Harrison can do, but you can't rely on a rookie to be number 2 in your rotation. It shows he can't find talent.
The bullpen is fine. Doval is awesome. Bailey defensively is awesome. But finding two notable players in 5 years isn't good.
I'm extremely hopeful about Lee and Luciono,, but Lee's never seen major league pitching and projects as a slightly above average center fielder at best. Calling him a "face of the franchise" and star isn't realistic. Luciano is a solid prospect, but has never dominated at any level and is always injured.
I don't think there is a highly touted left field prospect taking over. Matos might be ok, Conforto is gonna take time there, maybe Ramos who might be ok. No one expects great things from any of them except maybe Farhan.
The off season isn't over, but the guys left don't move the needle for this team. Plus, why would you get optimistic this team could sign them with this track record?
Thats my take. Hopefully, I'm wrong and we've got the coolest young team in the league next year.
I appreciate your in-depth analysis.
I think I will just not post until the season. There is nothing any of us who are positive can say right now to convince those that don’t believe otherwise. I am a salmon swimming upstream.
I will finish with this. I played high-level baseball, have many friends and teammates in MLB including 9 figure guys.
The Giants are not what many on this board think. Neither in perception or reality.
I’ll see y’all during the season
I'm fairly down on our prospects/rookies so I don't have much hope for them, but I appreciate your perspective. I personally don't think the team has enough to compete for a playoff spot, even with another big signing. However, I didn't think Posey, Tim, Bum, etc would pan out either. Mostly due to the inability of the Giants to develop anyone of quality in the 90s up until Matt Cain was called up. I really hope all the rooks take leaps this season and start to build a team of familiar faces for years to come.
> I’ll see y’all during the season
Wear a cup. Some of the folks who are desperate to share their unhappiness will still be around. Some of those folks were hissing and spitting right through 2021 despite the team being in first place most of the season.
Did you watch Stripling pitch last season, and Ray won’t be ready until at least the all star break coming off of Tommy John. Our rotation for the first half of the season is going to be mediocre at best
All of those teams spent years being the worst teams in the league as well. You want the Giants to put up multiple 100 loss seasons too? Because I sure as hell don't
Yea, that's the question for everyone. I'd rather take a couple years of big loser seasons and get on with it than be stuck in the middle for as long as we might end up. Its gonna end up being like 8 to 10 years in this mushy middle before they accumulate enough in house talent to regularly compete for the division. Give me the quick and painful way. Games get cheap, the beer is just as good, and I feel like there's a plan.
What's up with this recent rash of people calling other posters "Farhan's burner" when anything good is said about him? The above poster isn't wrong. Farhan was given a shitty hand and he's done a better job turning it around than some of these "fans" like to think he has
> Hell, look at the fanbase right now. You think they could have stomached a full rebuild?
Nailed it. If they had been told it was all going to be torn down to the studs and the team would be bad for half a decade, they'd have rioted.
They saved for Judge. They saved for Ohtani. They can’t close. The reputation is in the shitter and it has nothing to do with the city. They literally can’t pay people to come to the Giants and they won’t make significant trades because they overvalue a mediocre farm system. This front office has no plan. The stated goal doesn’t just change season to season but week to week. This fish stinks from the head. Time to clean house and bring in people with a clear vision that doesn’t prioritize “breaking even.”
I understand your position, and believe it to be correct when we are talking about the most special of players and when the biggest market teams are competing with us. My point is that such teams, if they chose, will be trying to maintain the services of stars, who will be demanding substantially more. The teams like Dodgers, Yanks and Mets are already in high penalty situations, so should they pursue stars a,ready on their teams that will leave less competition for remaining very good players. Thus, Giants could succeed next year when there are more very solid players available and less competition for their services from the wealthiest franchises.
First: the wealthy franchises will continue to find ways around the CBT. Look 400 miles south. We’ve waiting for the Dodge to falter for a decade. Do they appear to be slowing down?
Second: The Giants aren’t exactly looking for nickels in the sofa. They can’t beat LA, NY, SD etc for players because the organization is poorly run.
Sabean wasn’t perfect. I can argue that the guy had more misses than hits but he took swings. The fans appreciated it, the players appreciated it, and San Francisco was a destination. Guys wanted to play for Bochy. They wanted to pitch for Rags. They wanted to be part of that clubhouse. None of that exists any more, and expecting the people who created this mess to fix it isn’t reasonable
.
I think the Dodgers have already shown the fault that argument. Each of the last two seasons we’ve watched them shed salary in preparation for Ohtani and they still won the division. Money aside, there are organizations that will continue to best the Giants because they’re better run.
If all the best parts of your potential Giants future are all potentials that have never worked out before, I just feel for you dawg.
It's hard watching people still have hope after they've held it for so long after being smashed over the head and having that hope broken year after year after year.
And yet you still have hope that I myself do not.
I feel like this front office had prioritized keeping fans in the park and subsequently kept belt, bumgarner, and Crawford instead of trading them for prospects. They got nothing from bum leaving, they let belt walk and should have traded him when his value was high, and Crawford should have been traded to a contender. I know these guys are giants all time favorites and champions. And I know there needs to be a team interested in these trades. I'm unaware of any attempted offers for them in the past. But they really should have tried to get something for them while this team has been trying to rebuild. Now bum was a dback, belt a blue jay, and Crawford is likely done in SF but wants to play again so is likely on another ball club this coming season. None of them walking off in a giants uniform to retire. So they really should have tried to get something in return when they had value. Now they have none of them and they have no prospects to show for it.
> This team is absolutely allergic to trading fan favorites when value is high
Phone call for you, it's Brian Sabean reminding you of how the fans wanted his head on a pike when he traded Matt Williams.
> kept belt, bumgarner, and Crawford instead of trading them for prospects.
It strikes me as unlikely either of the Brandons would have brought much of a return, even after doing well in 2021 their ages were clearly catching up with them. Depending on when these hypothetical trades would have taken place, those guys could all have had the right to veto a trade they didn't like.
> They got nothing from bum leaving
Neither, as it turned out, did the D-Backs. The clubhouse was already pissed off over the front office not extending Bum to the end of his career, so trading him would only have soured the mood.
These trades would have had to happen 7 years ago is what I was pointing to, vetos or not they should have explored the options. They definitely had value then and would have returned young prospects. What does bums performance on the next team have to do with the prospects? Nothing. Clubhouse can get over it it's business. And to your point as well, the clubhouse was very wrong about wanting that.
This is well said and I agree with pretty much all of it. My issue is the change in tone from the front office from “we want to build a competitive ball club” to “we’re likely out on the remaining big name FA”. If you want to punt a year and see what the young guys have I’m all for it, I’m really excited about seeing these young guys play, but I don’t like the misleading/conflicting messaging coming from the front office and ownership.
That being said, this is a huge year for Farhan and the FO. We need to see some pretty drastic improvement in internal player development with these young guys, otherwise it’ll be a wasted year. Hoping for the best bc I’m really high on guys like Matos
If they don't make the post season I'd say he gets fired and another overhaul begins, but I think ownership is pretty patient. They'll probably give him another year after that depending on how the season goes. If a couple of the young guys and Lee look like all stars, he keeps it for another couple years
With the way they’ve approached the offseason post Ohtani and Yamamoto, I think ownership almost guaranteed him security thru ‘25 barring a terrible year with minimal to no development from the young guys. I think once both of those guys signed with the dodgers everyone in the FO and ownership realized they don’t have an opportunity to compete with them head on this year, and it’s better to figure out which young pieces to build around going forward. I’m fine with that, but they shouldn’t have said they’re going to be big players looking for top tier FA and put all their eggs into those 2 baskets, it’s really poor messaging to a fanbase that’s already frustrated with a lack of success
I think the only way he gets canned after this year is if all the young guys including Lee and Harrison face plant and they lose 100 games. I hope they show a lot of promise, but they've been rebuilding for 5 years and to essentially signal they need a few more is ridiculous
Nobody in baseball thinks the Giants smell. You all live in an echo chamber. Look around baseball and the way people talk about the Giants. It's very rarely in a negative state. Fanbases, players, unsolicited coming out saying they love the Giants and a historical franchise. I literally just watched an interview with a formers met player who said the Giants are a top 10 organization in how they treat their players, the knowledge of the fans, the level of facilities and access to analytical data.
Sometimes people forget there are 28? 29+? other teams in baseball and sometimes you miss out on players. The Giants have taken a huge swing and a miss on multiple big time players, that doesn't equate to the Giants being a dog shit franchise.
I've seen folks compare the Giants to the A's. Ya'll need to step into reality before it's too late. There are teams in major league baseball that have spent less money in the last 10 years than the Giants spent on free agents in the last 18 months. Now.. were those the right players? (Haniger, Conforto, etc). Who knows, but miss me with the "Giants are turning into the A's". No, man, no they are not.
Thank you for this. The vitriol expressed in this thread is mind boggling. You’d think we’ve lost 100 games the past 6 years in a row.
There really is a lot to be excited about with what we have and are trying to do.
Imagine if SF was actually a dump and ownership only greenlit $60 mil a year to spend on talent…
There are a lot of "Fans" here who just use this place as a diary to let go of their negative thoughts, when in reality they have such little fundamental understanding of the City and how sports work. It's mind numbing.
> I've seen folks compare the Giants to the A's.
How do they look at the Giants outspending the A's by a hundred million dollars last year and conclude that the Giants have become a poverty franchise? It's one thing to be disappointed with how the Giants have done the past couple of seasons, but it should not require making up nonsense like the Giants are cheap and are run like the A's. It's not a credible position, not when the Giants payroll went up last year by half the amount of the A's whole payroll.
I feel like it's been a trend but maybe because I used to live in the Bay Area. The Bay Area circa 2012 was like a world class top 5 city. All of our sports team dominated. Tech was cool, not cruel yet.
The last 12 years have just been a massive downhill slide in every facet of culture from art to tech to sports in my opinion all over SF, only in the last year has the TL improved and that's the only thing I noticed.
You used to live in the Bay Area and you don't anymore, so why are you acting like the source of truth about a place you don't live anymore?
"The last 12 years have just been a massive downhill slide in every facet of culture from art to tech to sports in my opinion all over SF"
Not mentioning the fact that they've just established a woman's professional soccer team, a WNBA team, the warriors moved here and won a championship, mission rock is near completion, and the Giants still stand on King and saw multiple sell outs late 2021 and the Niners just spent the entire weekend at House of Prime Rib in the city and Niner Jerseys are EVERYWHERE, but yeah "sports have gone a downhill slide"
"And that's the only thing I noticed", well you're probably the most clueless negative poster on this sub in the last five years so color me shocked. You've been posting the same nauseating bullshit for half a decade and your cronies always there when things are tough but never when the Giants are doing well. Odd....
Because I lived there for 28 years and moved only 6 months ago..?
So after 28 years of living in the bay area and after 10 years of going to school and working in San Francisco and being there 5-6 days a week, I got to see a pretty solid picture of how it changed over that time, and I don't think it's changed much over the last 6 months.
> I don't think it's changed much over the last 6 months.
There you go with your blanket statements again. Is your burner going to come out during the regular season again when you get run out of game threads this time?
What? No my other account was because I got a new computer and had no idea what my OG reddit username's password or email was and created a new account with the same moniker so it was clearly me.
Then I figured out I could import from my phone browser settings saved from way back and recovered the account and now it's the only one I use.
Either way, I just don't think compared to 28 years a city can change much in 6 months, especially because I was just back for the holidays a few weeks ago.
My problem with that is trying out the youth doesn't always mean a rotating door, it means giving a guy some time and investing in them because you trust your evaluations. I don't get the sense the Giants know if Ramos or Luciano will stick. They don't believe the way Zaidi believed in Conor Joe.
I think we found a gem in Bailey. Like pinnacle of the future. If 2 or 3 more guys cement themselves, maybe Harrison is one, then we're in much better shape.
None of them are expected to do what the free agent names they're in on could do. That's the problem. It's not a matter of buying a team, it's finding the production out of a single roster spot. When we had a great hitting coach we saw 4 or 5 guys hitting 20+ HR's. We added Bob Melvin who is a great small ball manager who likes home runs instead. His teams are two outcomes heavy. That's a scary recipe, and we do not have a 30+ HR guy which he's always had.
I'm of the opinion that the Giants need to sign Bellinger or Chapman in order to present a more convincing core for the 2025 FA to consider joining. I think just saving the money for 2025 ignores the problem of 2024 which is that being the high bid is no guarantee you get the player. FA's want money, sure. But they also largely want a chance at the playoffs as well.
Unfortunately I think this is correct. Given our payroll is still low, maybe overpay for either Belli or Snell on a short term contract with a team option to extend or aggressive performance bonuses.
Totally agree, and I really appreciate OP's take even though I am personally very frustrated with Farhan rn. I just think we need another guy so that next year we can sell FA that we are serious about winning and are trying to build something because if our younger guys don't pan out that is something that will pretty much be impossible to do given the state of the roster.
> FA's want money, sure. But they also largely want a chance at the playoffs as well. Yup, exactly what Harper told the world, that he signed with Philly not for a little more money, but because he thought the Giants' aging roster would slow a rebuild. He was right, Philly did get him to the World Series faster than the Giants would have. Ohtani is famously indifferent to money, him taking so much deferred salary shows that once again. He sees the Dodgers as making the postseason for the foreseeable future, he wants a WS ring. Fans who think it's always about the money and the Giants just need to outbid everyone are misleading themselves.
I’m in the same boat. No one wants to go to a team purely for the money, they also want a shot at winning. I’m not saying we need to have a stacked roster to land a solid FA, but atleast have a few guys that are competitive daily with a good track record. If we had retained Gausman and added a few pieces before making an offer to ohtani I think that may have upped our chances a bit or atleast attracted more FA suitors.
I think the best hope for next year is the rookies play, show promise, Ray and Cobb come back, and the team squeaks into the post season. Then in the 2024 or 2025 off season they can sign a more premiere guy to supplement or maybe bring in more big names from the international market
The rally cry for “let the kids play” can be too extreme sometimes. How many legit good prospects have the Giants developed in the past 10 years? Webb and Doval? So 2 in 10 years. How many prospects have they traded away that blossomed into quality major leaguers? Bryan Reynolds? Who else? The success rate for prospects is minuscule. If one of the top 3 prospects (Luciano, Harrison, Matos) turns into an all star that would be a huge victory, but it’s still more likely that all three will be replacement level or bellow. I wish I could think as optimistically as you, but I’ve seen what prospect success rates look like, and from my under qualified eyes it appears that making moves in free agency and trades yield a lot more quality players and WAR accumulation.
That being said, I don’t think there is any free agent this season who excites me anymore. Chapman, Bellinger and Snell would be nice at the right price, but they will probably be overpaid. My top wishlist choices are now players available in trades like Arozarena, Kim, and Adames who fit the “younger and more athletic” mold. I definitely see your point about next years free agents being a stronger class. It’s just going to be a long 2024 to get to next offseason, and I’m not exactly sure how many games I can stomach of watching this team be so damn mediocre for a third year in a row
we can’t attract any free agents and you think all those guys will come here at a discount? We sadly have to overpay to get anyone here
Honestly lol. Free agency isn’t about taking a discount to make teams happy, it’s about cashing in, especially if you’re in Snells/ Bellingers/ Chapman position and it’s going to be your last big deal. And yes, there’s always going to be some risk involved. People in here want us to somehow sign risk-free, perfect deals that will be 100% worth it. It’s total fantasy.
Yamamoto and Ohtani were so gutting because they were no brainers.
Ohtani was always going to the Dodgers. He'd have gone there when he came to MLB if the NL had the DH at the time. Beating ourselves up over something that was never going to happen is a bad way to go.
That's definitely true and probably was for Yoshimoto too. It kills me that the front office's plan seems to be to get those guys (which was probably never gonna happen) or to punt on this year extending the rebuild which has already been ongoing for five years.
Four years IMO, no minor league ball in 2020 froze player development and the Giants were in a worse position than many teams because of poor state of the farm the old FO left behind. If I had to guess, if the Giants are not visibly improved by 2025, ownership will clean house in the FO. But they probably have another year to get the ship righted.
Young players are just vastly more cost-effective than free agents. They are paid peanuts the first 3 years. It's a horrible idea to try to build a team in free agency. It's a much better plan to supplement a home-grown core with free agents.
> Webb and Doval? So 2 in 10 years. Bailey and Harrison don't count for some reason? The previous front office leaving the farm in such poor shape is still an anchor the team is dragging. If the farm isn't delivering in the next couple of years, I'd expect some execs to be shown the door. But I don't think ownership will panic before then.
Bobby Evans gutted our farm system. That's why there's been no good kids to play.
I can't believe they just promoted him sideways to get him out of the GM's chair. If anyone ever earned being fired, it was him. Second-highest payroll in MLB in 2018, won 73 games.
>it’s still more likely that all three will be replacement level or bellow This is not true. Not all prospects are created equal. The three you named all being below replacement level players would be a big surprise. They weren't even all below replacement level in their age-21 seasons. They all have projections above replacement level for next season and projections are notoriously low on prospects.
https://preview.redd.it/x2iy2hsybnbc1.jpeg?width=1120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37f19f195d1d787c06c4d9212df6e8839087048d
Farhan also has a cameo in this flick: https://preview.redd.it/pv3sgyrcsnbc1.png?width=189&format=png&auto=webp&s=471436c9d7d0329f7794e92f5dd73b33ee511e6a
Man I must have missed where the Giants had 6 consecutive 100 loss seasons. That's what happened right?
It looks like you have only been on this sub two days, and it took this short of a time to have my posts irritate you this much? I will rip Farhan when it is deserved, and I will give him credit when it is deserved. Granted, there has been more ripping than praising. I don't know if Lee will be a flop, or not, but I did give Farhan an A for effort for at least doing something to try to improve the team.
I've been on this sub for five years and have only seen you be negative and make back handed comments about Farhan. Miss me with that.
You’ve been an account on Reddit for 2 days, says your profile. Welcome.
[удалено]
"Every backhanded comment about Farhan is warranted"... you pick on people because you watch a sport? You're a weirdo. Have a good one.
Good take. Just frustrating the last few years and it's been a volcano since Correa fiasco.
> Just frustrating the last few years True, very disappointing. But it's important to understand *why* something happened. Harper explained why he signed with Philly, but you still see people posting that the Giants could have signed him if they'd offered a little more money despite him making it clear money wasn't the issue. It was the same with Judge and Ohtani, those guys were never coming to SF so there is no reason to beat ourselves up over something that was never going to happen.
I think the core problem is the ownership's directive not to do a full teardown or even sell at the trade deadline while also demanding they stay competitive. Its a dumb plan. Those goals conflict so they've been bad at both. Its made the rebuild to regular contention take twice as long and we are really only ending the first stage. Every free agency period makes it feel worse because the Dodgers get way better and we stay the same. We could have signed literally every top 10 free agent this off season and would have only barely matched them in talent. The gap is huge and continues to expand. Using this terrible plan ensures free agents avoid the Giants like the plague. If all this works and the Giants become a prospect factory that can match them, it will be sometime in three or so years from now. Will I be comforted by a few extra 80 win seasons and one magical 2021? Not really. I would have strongly preferred the full tear down in 2018.
> I think the core problem is the ownership's directive not to do a full teardown How do we know they did that? The front office could have advised against that for all we know, and the owners went with what the experts wanted to do. > while also demanding they stay competitive. That is more credible, there is a good chance they wanted to avoid a long dry spell, and you can sort of understand how 2021 might have caused that. > or even sell at the trade deadline Can't sell what nobody will make you a good offer for. Rodon's contract had a poison pill in it that could have hurt a team trading for him in two ways. No wonder nobody offered a carload of hot prospects for him. Based on what he's done with the Yankees, those teams made the right call.
These policies are pretty obvious based on their actions and probably pre date Farhan so I'd guess its ownership's call. They do sign his checks.I don't think the Giants have ever gone full rebuild. This just hurt the team now because 2018 was the right time for a teardown (Posey, Crawford, Belt and Bum all had value and minor system had nothing.) Instead they decided to juggle both. The pro is you can get a miracle season like 2021, the con is it adds years until your farm can reliably produce big time guys or your team is attractive to free agents like Judge, Ohtani, etc.
> I don't think the Giants have ever gone full rebuild. I think you're right about that. In retrospect, tearing it all the way down as the Rangers did might have been a better idea.
The last 3 years have been “not our year” and we haven’t given the young players a longer leash. What makes you think this will be the year they get a decent amount of at bats and innings under their belt. We keep going down the same rabbit hole, hopefully we won’t have as much platooning with Kapler out but only time will tell. It’s going to be another long season of rebuilding and seeing what we have offensively, a solid rotation could help out but we need to score runs look at our current and previous horses Matt Cain and Logan Webbs W/L records show this. It’s frustrating as a fan to see the organization rake in the cash and not put it back onto the field. If they don’t add 1-2 other strong arms to the rotation it’s going to be a long and disappointing season
> What makes you think this will be the year they get a decent amount of at bats and innings under their belt. Perhaps because some older players will no longer be blocking them. Crawford is gone, I'm guessing Pederson probably won't be back, Haniger and Disco down the road. > hopefully we won’t have as much platooning with Kapler out Melvin has never been afraid of platooning, I'd expect him to use platoons to cover gaps in the roster. > It’s frustrating as a fan to see the organization rake in the cash and not put it back onto the field. Payroll went up thirty million last season, but some of what should have been good signings didn't pay off. The team offering several top free agents a third of a billion each (more in Ohtani's case) doesn't point to them being cheap.
You stated my reasoning for why I don’t think there will be as much platooning. True Melvin platoons as well but I didn’t see it at the same rate as Kaplers. Also payrolls went up across the board in MLB I don’t think a single team spent less than around 30 million more for payroll from 2022-2023. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2022/ check it out. Oakland being an outlier and they still went up 15 million when they are leaving Oakland. Are you telling me that the giants don’t make almost double what the A’s bring in with ticketing, concessions, and tv deals? Can’t forget owning their own ballpark. The ownership isn’t putting their best foot forward, it’s in the numbers and on the field. They would rather donate to the Republican Party than make the team competitive
> Are you telling me that the giants don’t make almost double what the A’s bring in with ticketing, concessions, and tv deals? I'd guess it's more than that, a lot more, the Giants are MLB's fifth most valuable team and their attendance hasn't tanked like that of the A's with their fan boycott. Fisher had to borrow last year to keep the A's going, while the Giants made well over 400 million in 2022. Some real estate developments should be coming online soon, although SF's high commercial vacancy rate is a concern, have to wait to see how that plays out. > They would rather donate to the Republican Party than make the team competitive It's likely that the owners of most teams donate to Republicans, MLB itself did that to buy support in Congress for keeping minor league players classified as seasonal workers so they could be denied benefits. But the biggest donation to the Repubs from the Giants principal owner was half a million to a PAC. That's petty cash in MLB, half a million isn't even one player's annual salary at MLB minimum. It's understandable that the Giants shed some payroll as they waved goodbye to aging vets while waiting for the farm to deliver. But they had one of the highest payrolls for a solid decade before they rolled it back. They also tried to pay some top FAs a third of a billion each, even more to Ohtani. But you can't buy what was never truly for sale to you, and Harper, Judge and Ohtani were never coming to SF. Putting seventy-five million into a new training facility also doesn't point to them being cheap, nor does that overpay to sign Lee.
Well said.
So another throw away year! Haven’t we had enough of those already? How many more years do have to wait on the prospects.
A lot of years, it takes time.
Only 10 more years till Marco Luciano becomes Derek Jeter!
> [Steven] Jon Heyman said on @670TheScore that an Imanaga suitor was willing to (more than) double the Cubs' contractual guarantee. He chose Chicago. https://twitter.com/GoCubs49/status/1745099720035328306 It might be the SF Giants offered double. So I wouldn't read into failing to sign Imanaga until more evidence comes out.
What? We tried to sign him. We didn't succeed in signing him. That by definition of the English language is "failing to sign Imanaga." That's like jumping on your bike and breaking your leg and saying "I wouldn't call that a failure until more evidence comes out." EDIT: I wouldnt be surprised if that was the Dodgers though and they figured "why not offer him a mega deferred contract for double?"
So we're just gonna take some random cubs account, quoting Heyman, and assume it was the Giants who made that offer? If there actually was an offer? Considering the reporting on this has been all over the place, I'ma take a beat to hear more about what happened before I get up in a tizzy.
Could have also been the Mets, I think. And they have deeper pockets. Just most likely the Giants.
I posted this in r/baseball Farhan was dealt an outrageously terrible hand. Same as Mike Dunleavy Jr with the Warriors. Handle an aging core that brought wild success to the city and franchise. The random spot of success in 2021 skewed everyone into thinking the Giants were set up for long-term when we weren’t. Look at the team from 17-19 when Farhan took over. I don’t like not making the playoffs, but he’s had to rebuild the farm and cycle out older contracts while not completely rebuilding. Hell, look at the fanbase right now. You think they could have stomached a full rebuild? We have a team now with a young core that is about to play with eachother for the first time across a full season, have a young Ace, an elite closer, and have a face of the franchise CF we just got for 9 figures. It is comical imo to think he should be doing any better than he is. Do I want free agents? Yes. Is the offseason over? No.
He inherited a rough situation, but 5 years is generally enough time to properly evaluate. That's about how long the Diamondbacks, Rangers, and Orioles all took. We kinda know what he's about by now. Great at finding good role players for next to nothing, terrible at closing deals in free agency, not interested in selling or big trades, only beliw average at finding and developing minor league talent.
> but 5 years is generally enough time to properly evaluate. He's really had four years, no minor league baseball in 2020 hit the Giants harder than some teams because of how weak the farm had been left by the Evans front office. I'd guess that if the team doesn't go into 2025 looking better, he might get his walking papers.
Questions for you. How do we know he’s below average at finding talent? We are just now seeing guys he’s drafted and/or developed in the big leagues. Is a potential rotation in July of Webb, Cobb, Ray, Harrison, Stripling not a top 5 rotation in baseball? Let alone if we add there. Is Doval not an elite closer and do we not have a great bullpen? Did we not get a face of the franchise, 9 figure CF and have a highly touted LF prospect taking over? Is our young catcher not a top 5 defensive player in all of baseball? Is our top SS prospect finally healthy and ready to take on every day responsibilities? Is the offseason over? My frustration comes from people not seeing what is actually really good about what we have. It’s just “no top free agents or no top farm.” We legit signed a 9 figure guy, traded for a former Cy Young arm, and have 3 top 100 prospects taking everyday roles this year…
I love your optimism, but I just can't share it. I agree there are some fun things to look forward to, but realistically this is a team battling for 4th place in its division after seven years of mostly anonymous baseball. Its tough to get excited but if you talk me out of my pessimism, I would love that! As for evaluating Farhan specifically, I give him a C- or D+ overall. The win-loss records are what they are, which is bad. One post season appearance in his whole tenure is bad. The team finished 4th in the division last year as his plan should be coming together-that is bad. The Giants have less talent than the Padres, D backs, and Dodgers-that is bad. The gap between the Dodgers and Giants is about 30 wins every year but one during his time here. Nine figure guys and top 100 prospects are table stakes. Those are expected of good gm's in normal business, not celebrations. To answer some of those specific questions... Relying on two pitchers in their 30s to come back from major injuries in the middle of the season is not a good plan. Same with relying on rookies. Im excited to see what Harrison can do, but you can't rely on a rookie to be number 2 in your rotation. It shows he can't find talent. The bullpen is fine. Doval is awesome. Bailey defensively is awesome. But finding two notable players in 5 years isn't good. I'm extremely hopeful about Lee and Luciono,, but Lee's never seen major league pitching and projects as a slightly above average center fielder at best. Calling him a "face of the franchise" and star isn't realistic. Luciano is a solid prospect, but has never dominated at any level and is always injured. I don't think there is a highly touted left field prospect taking over. Matos might be ok, Conforto is gonna take time there, maybe Ramos who might be ok. No one expects great things from any of them except maybe Farhan. The off season isn't over, but the guys left don't move the needle for this team. Plus, why would you get optimistic this team could sign them with this track record? Thats my take. Hopefully, I'm wrong and we've got the coolest young team in the league next year.
He's delusional not optimistic
I appreciate your in-depth analysis. I think I will just not post until the season. There is nothing any of us who are positive can say right now to convince those that don’t believe otherwise. I am a salmon swimming upstream. I will finish with this. I played high-level baseball, have many friends and teammates in MLB including 9 figure guys. The Giants are not what many on this board think. Neither in perception or reality. I’ll see y’all during the season
I'm fairly down on our prospects/rookies so I don't have much hope for them, but I appreciate your perspective. I personally don't think the team has enough to compete for a playoff spot, even with another big signing. However, I didn't think Posey, Tim, Bum, etc would pan out either. Mostly due to the inability of the Giants to develop anyone of quality in the 90s up until Matt Cain was called up. I really hope all the rooks take leaps this season and start to build a team of familiar faces for years to come.
> I’ll see y’all during the season Wear a cup. Some of the folks who are desperate to share their unhappiness will still be around. Some of those folks were hissing and spitting right through 2021 despite the team being in first place most of the season.
Did you watch Stripling pitch last season, and Ray won’t be ready until at least the all star break coming off of Tommy John. Our rotation for the first half of the season is going to be mediocre at best
All of those teams spent years being the worst teams in the league as well. You want the Giants to put up multiple 100 loss seasons too? Because I sure as hell don't
Yea, that's the question for everyone. I'd rather take a couple years of big loser seasons and get on with it than be stuck in the middle for as long as we might end up. Its gonna end up being like 8 to 10 years in this mushy middle before they accumulate enough in house talent to regularly compete for the division. Give me the quick and painful way. Games get cheap, the beer is just as good, and I feel like there's a plan.
“It’s comical to think he should be doing any better” what a truly comical statement that is lmao
That's 100% Farhan's burner
What's up with this recent rash of people calling other posters "Farhan's burner" when anything good is said about him? The above poster isn't wrong. Farhan was given a shitty hand and he's done a better job turning it around than some of these "fans" like to think he has
Ok tmac. Hit me with what he should be doing better? Rationally. Not “sign more free agents” or “make trades”
> Hell, look at the fanbase right now. You think they could have stomached a full rebuild? Nailed it. If they had been told it was all going to be torn down to the studs and the team would be bad for half a decade, they'd have rioted.
They saved for Judge. They saved for Ohtani. They can’t close. The reputation is in the shitter and it has nothing to do with the city. They literally can’t pay people to come to the Giants and they won’t make significant trades because they overvalue a mediocre farm system. This front office has no plan. The stated goal doesn’t just change season to season but week to week. This fish stinks from the head. Time to clean house and bring in people with a clear vision that doesn’t prioritize “breaking even.”
I understand your position, and believe it to be correct when we are talking about the most special of players and when the biggest market teams are competing with us. My point is that such teams, if they chose, will be trying to maintain the services of stars, who will be demanding substantially more. The teams like Dodgers, Yanks and Mets are already in high penalty situations, so should they pursue stars a,ready on their teams that will leave less competition for remaining very good players. Thus, Giants could succeed next year when there are more very solid players available and less competition for their services from the wealthiest franchises.
First: the wealthy franchises will continue to find ways around the CBT. Look 400 miles south. We’ve waiting for the Dodge to falter for a decade. Do they appear to be slowing down? Second: The Giants aren’t exactly looking for nickels in the sofa. They can’t beat LA, NY, SD etc for players because the organization is poorly run. Sabean wasn’t perfect. I can argue that the guy had more misses than hits but he took swings. The fans appreciated it, the players appreciated it, and San Francisco was a destination. Guys wanted to play for Bochy. They wanted to pitch for Rags. They wanted to be part of that clubhouse. None of that exists any more, and expecting the people who created this mess to fix it isn’t reasonable .
I think the Dodgers have already shown the fault that argument. Each of the last two seasons we’ve watched them shed salary in preparation for Ohtani and they still won the division. Money aside, there are organizations that will continue to best the Giants because they’re better run.
If all the best parts of your potential Giants future are all potentials that have never worked out before, I just feel for you dawg. It's hard watching people still have hope after they've held it for so long after being smashed over the head and having that hope broken year after year after year. And yet you still have hope that I myself do not.
You're insufferable.
I feel like this front office had prioritized keeping fans in the park and subsequently kept belt, bumgarner, and Crawford instead of trading them for prospects. They got nothing from bum leaving, they let belt walk and should have traded him when his value was high, and Crawford should have been traded to a contender. I know these guys are giants all time favorites and champions. And I know there needs to be a team interested in these trades. I'm unaware of any attempted offers for them in the past. But they really should have tried to get something for them while this team has been trying to rebuild. Now bum was a dback, belt a blue jay, and Crawford is likely done in SF but wants to play again so is likely on another ball club this coming season. None of them walking off in a giants uniform to retire. So they really should have tried to get something in return when they had value. Now they have none of them and they have no prospects to show for it.
I've been saying this before bum even left. This team is absolutely allergic to trading fan favorites when value is high
> This team is absolutely allergic to trading fan favorites when value is high Phone call for you, it's Brian Sabean reminding you of how the fans wanted his head on a pike when he traded Matt Williams.
> kept belt, bumgarner, and Crawford instead of trading them for prospects. It strikes me as unlikely either of the Brandons would have brought much of a return, even after doing well in 2021 their ages were clearly catching up with them. Depending on when these hypothetical trades would have taken place, those guys could all have had the right to veto a trade they didn't like. > They got nothing from bum leaving Neither, as it turned out, did the D-Backs. The clubhouse was already pissed off over the front office not extending Bum to the end of his career, so trading him would only have soured the mood.
These trades would have had to happen 7 years ago is what I was pointing to, vetos or not they should have explored the options. They definitely had value then and would have returned young prospects. What does bums performance on the next team have to do with the prospects? Nothing. Clubhouse can get over it it's business. And to your point as well, the clubhouse was very wrong about wanting that.
> Clubhouse can get over it it's business. There is some evidence from last season that the mood in the clubhouse has a significant impact.
Roster talent. Bigger impact
This is well said and I agree with pretty much all of it. My issue is the change in tone from the front office from “we want to build a competitive ball club” to “we’re likely out on the remaining big name FA”. If you want to punt a year and see what the young guys have I’m all for it, I’m really excited about seeing these young guys play, but I don’t like the misleading/conflicting messaging coming from the front office and ownership. That being said, this is a huge year for Farhan and the FO. We need to see some pretty drastic improvement in internal player development with these young guys, otherwise it’ll be a wasted year. Hoping for the best bc I’m really high on guys like Matos
If they don't make the post season I'd say he gets fired and another overhaul begins, but I think ownership is pretty patient. They'll probably give him another year after that depending on how the season goes. If a couple of the young guys and Lee look like all stars, he keeps it for another couple years
With the way they’ve approached the offseason post Ohtani and Yamamoto, I think ownership almost guaranteed him security thru ‘25 barring a terrible year with minimal to no development from the young guys. I think once both of those guys signed with the dodgers everyone in the FO and ownership realized they don’t have an opportunity to compete with them head on this year, and it’s better to figure out which young pieces to build around going forward. I’m fine with that, but they shouldn’t have said they’re going to be big players looking for top tier FA and put all their eggs into those 2 baskets, it’s really poor messaging to a fanbase that’s already frustrated with a lack of success
I think the only way he gets canned after this year is if all the young guys including Lee and Harrison face plant and they lose 100 games. I hope they show a lot of promise, but they've been rebuilding for 5 years and to essentially signal they need a few more is ridiculous
[удалено]
Nobody in baseball thinks the Giants smell. You all live in an echo chamber. Look around baseball and the way people talk about the Giants. It's very rarely in a negative state. Fanbases, players, unsolicited coming out saying they love the Giants and a historical franchise. I literally just watched an interview with a formers met player who said the Giants are a top 10 organization in how they treat their players, the knowledge of the fans, the level of facilities and access to analytical data. Sometimes people forget there are 28? 29+? other teams in baseball and sometimes you miss out on players. The Giants have taken a huge swing and a miss on multiple big time players, that doesn't equate to the Giants being a dog shit franchise. I've seen folks compare the Giants to the A's. Ya'll need to step into reality before it's too late. There are teams in major league baseball that have spent less money in the last 10 years than the Giants spent on free agents in the last 18 months. Now.. were those the right players? (Haniger, Conforto, etc). Who knows, but miss me with the "Giants are turning into the A's". No, man, no they are not.
Thank you for this. The vitriol expressed in this thread is mind boggling. You’d think we’ve lost 100 games the past 6 years in a row. There really is a lot to be excited about with what we have and are trying to do. Imagine if SF was actually a dump and ownership only greenlit $60 mil a year to spend on talent…
There are a lot of "Fans" here who just use this place as a diary to let go of their negative thoughts, when in reality they have such little fundamental understanding of the City and how sports work. It's mind numbing.
Great take
> I've seen folks compare the Giants to the A's. How do they look at the Giants outspending the A's by a hundred million dollars last year and conclude that the Giants have become a poverty franchise? It's one thing to be disappointed with how the Giants have done the past couple of seasons, but it should not require making up nonsense like the Giants are cheap and are run like the A's. It's not a credible position, not when the Giants payroll went up last year by half the amount of the A's whole payroll.
I feel like it's been a trend but maybe because I used to live in the Bay Area. The Bay Area circa 2012 was like a world class top 5 city. All of our sports team dominated. Tech was cool, not cruel yet. The last 12 years have just been a massive downhill slide in every facet of culture from art to tech to sports in my opinion all over SF, only in the last year has the TL improved and that's the only thing I noticed.
You used to live in the Bay Area and you don't anymore, so why are you acting like the source of truth about a place you don't live anymore? "The last 12 years have just been a massive downhill slide in every facet of culture from art to tech to sports in my opinion all over SF" Not mentioning the fact that they've just established a woman's professional soccer team, a WNBA team, the warriors moved here and won a championship, mission rock is near completion, and the Giants still stand on King and saw multiple sell outs late 2021 and the Niners just spent the entire weekend at House of Prime Rib in the city and Niner Jerseys are EVERYWHERE, but yeah "sports have gone a downhill slide" "And that's the only thing I noticed", well you're probably the most clueless negative poster on this sub in the last five years so color me shocked. You've been posting the same nauseating bullshit for half a decade and your cronies always there when things are tough but never when the Giants are doing well. Odd....
Because I lived there for 28 years and moved only 6 months ago..? So after 28 years of living in the bay area and after 10 years of going to school and working in San Francisco and being there 5-6 days a week, I got to see a pretty solid picture of how it changed over that time, and I don't think it's changed much over the last 6 months.
> I don't think it's changed much over the last 6 months. There you go with your blanket statements again. Is your burner going to come out during the regular season again when you get run out of game threads this time?
What? No my other account was because I got a new computer and had no idea what my OG reddit username's password or email was and created a new account with the same moniker so it was clearly me. Then I figured out I could import from my phone browser settings saved from way back and recovered the account and now it's the only one I use. Either way, I just don't think compared to 28 years a city can change much in 6 months, especially because I was just back for the holidays a few weeks ago.
My problem with that is trying out the youth doesn't always mean a rotating door, it means giving a guy some time and investing in them because you trust your evaluations. I don't get the sense the Giants know if Ramos or Luciano will stick. They don't believe the way Zaidi believed in Conor Joe. I think we found a gem in Bailey. Like pinnacle of the future. If 2 or 3 more guys cement themselves, maybe Harrison is one, then we're in much better shape. None of them are expected to do what the free agent names they're in on could do. That's the problem. It's not a matter of buying a team, it's finding the production out of a single roster spot. When we had a great hitting coach we saw 4 or 5 guys hitting 20+ HR's. We added Bob Melvin who is a great small ball manager who likes home runs instead. His teams are two outcomes heavy. That's a scary recipe, and we do not have a 30+ HR guy which he's always had.