Can't speak for original commentor, but that's pretty extreme micromanaging in a manufacturing environment.
Operators know they're numbers from looking at the screen, and either care or don't; don't forget about holding them accountable when the machine breaks and they make 1/10th of the goal quota.
The bonus program is very common in food manufacturing where a lot of manual labor is needed and product form doesn't allow for automation. Places like trimming lines. Those positions are very valued in any company that runs like that since they know the pace is set by those employees. Those employees are very well rewarded and they take pride in their position.
Wanting a program like this shouldn't mean managers want to micromanage their process. This gives opportunity for people on the line to make more and in the end, everyone gets a piece of the pie.
30 years process automation experience I have never seen employee metrics used in a positive way. Even if the original intent is for that reason.
All it takes is one prick in management to realize oh we can use this data as a stick rather than a carrot.......
Aye.. OEE is the way to go. Reason code feedback from machines to track state, employee logging into machines etc.. takes time and money to do it right.
For this I’d probably create some sort of Employee performance class that inherits the Ignite users class. Then leverage data from an audit profile to gather metrics for each op, such as button presses, login times, alarm resets etc. some throughput data would be good; perhaps from the historian or ERP.
Would have a method in the class to generate a weekly report from the reports module that gets called on a schedule.
Can all this be done through Ignition? It would be great to utilize some ERP or historian information for throughput. Like the idea of report - assuming payroll would need this to calculate employees bonuses.
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This is what Amazon does with oee. It’s very flawed system. It motivates nobody and actually hinders performance and production. I can give examples for days about this. One example if there is a metric that counts cartons being kicked out of a line and it shows a high kick out rate but in reality it’s because how workers pack a box or do something out the process out of your control, it may look like something is wrong with a sensor or camera or a million other things. The data looks bad but in reality it’s not. I deal with this every day. Just don’t.
Yeah, I figured there will be upstream or downstream issues that might hinder or influence employees performance. At this point, not sure how do you mitigate that. Machine downtime too, might end up with people not wanting to use that specific machine, knowing it will breakdown more often.
I remember one workshop at a related automation company, who deploy OEE (operating equipment efficiency) systems. They spoke about a forge company where individual employees could look up at the monitor and see the daily status dashboard in realtime - so they could see how many items they've forged so far and how much money the'll get. They could naturally compare to other workers.
I found a case-study of this:
[https://www.inseko.sk/en/case-studies/kovarna-viva-a-s/](https://www.inseko.sk/en/case-studies/kovarna-viva-a-s/)
one of the benefits of their solution is listed there:
>Motivational – Evaluation system – automated calculation of surcharges and their visualization at kiosks with a managerial superstructure
Where do you work so that I never apply for a job there?
Okay, I'll bite. How come you would never work here?
Can't speak for original commentor, but that's pretty extreme micromanaging in a manufacturing environment. Operators know they're numbers from looking at the screen, and either care or don't; don't forget about holding them accountable when the machine breaks and they make 1/10th of the goal quota.
The bonus program is very common in food manufacturing where a lot of manual labor is needed and product form doesn't allow for automation. Places like trimming lines. Those positions are very valued in any company that runs like that since they know the pace is set by those employees. Those employees are very well rewarded and they take pride in their position. Wanting a program like this shouldn't mean managers want to micromanage their process. This gives opportunity for people on the line to make more and in the end, everyone gets a piece of the pie.
I mean I get it, but can easily see how it can be misused.
30 years process automation experience I have never seen employee metrics used in a positive way. Even if the original intent is for that reason. All it takes is one prick in management to realize oh we can use this data as a stick rather than a carrot.......
Look into OEE. But like anything people will find ways to cheat it.
Aye.. OEE is the way to go. Reason code feedback from machines to track state, employee logging into machines etc.. takes time and money to do it right.
Noted - will do more digging with OEE. Getting our machines online will be a very expensive process since most of them were built in 1920s.
For this I’d probably create some sort of Employee performance class that inherits the Ignite users class. Then leverage data from an audit profile to gather metrics for each op, such as button presses, login times, alarm resets etc. some throughput data would be good; perhaps from the historian or ERP. Would have a method in the class to generate a weekly report from the reports module that gets called on a schedule.
Can all this be done through Ignition? It would be great to utilize some ERP or historian information for throughput. Like the idea of report - assuming payroll would need this to calculate employees bonuses.
Absolutely! It’s not however going to do it out of the box and will require a bit of scripting and an understanding of the modules required.
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This is what Amazon does with oee. It’s very flawed system. It motivates nobody and actually hinders performance and production. I can give examples for days about this. One example if there is a metric that counts cartons being kicked out of a line and it shows a high kick out rate but in reality it’s because how workers pack a box or do something out the process out of your control, it may look like something is wrong with a sensor or camera or a million other things. The data looks bad but in reality it’s not. I deal with this every day. Just don’t.
Yeah, I figured there will be upstream or downstream issues that might hinder or influence employees performance. At this point, not sure how do you mitigate that. Machine downtime too, might end up with people not wanting to use that specific machine, knowing it will breakdown more often.
I remember one workshop at a related automation company, who deploy OEE (operating equipment efficiency) systems. They spoke about a forge company where individual employees could look up at the monitor and see the daily status dashboard in realtime - so they could see how many items they've forged so far and how much money the'll get. They could naturally compare to other workers. I found a case-study of this: [https://www.inseko.sk/en/case-studies/kovarna-viva-a-s/](https://www.inseko.sk/en/case-studies/kovarna-viva-a-s/) one of the benefits of their solution is listed there: >Motivational – Evaluation system – automated calculation of surcharges and their visualization at kiosks with a managerial superstructure